October 22, 2024 • 48 mins
In this episode of Our Life Beyond, co-hosts Scott Dibben and Connie King sit down with a special guest, Jeff King, who made a bold midlife career change from being a CPA to becoming a firefighter. Join us as Jeff shares his journey of moving from a desk job to a physically demanding and fulfilling new career, all while balancing family and personal challenges.
Jeff talks about the pressures of his former accounting career, the personal toll it took on his well-being, and the moment he realized he needed a change. We discuss the mental and physical aspects of firefighting, the impact of this switch on his family life, and the financial sacrifices he had to make. Jeff’s story is a testament to the idea that it's never too late to follow your passion and redefine what success means to you.
If you've ever wondered how to make a radical career change, this episode is for you. Tune in as we dive into the importance of personal fulfillment, managing finances during a career shift, and navigating the challenges of balancing happiness with responsibilities.
Don’t miss this inspiring episode and learn what it takes to reinvent yourself in the second half of life!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how
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to navigate and hopefully thrive through some of life's biggest transitions. I'm your
co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor Connie King to
share some stories, strategies and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life. Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching
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careers, moving to a new city, or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, where
with you every step of the way. But always remember we're not therapists, just fellow
travelers with a knack for finding humor in the chaos, and maybe some untraditional method
of overcoming what life dishes out to us. Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this
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journey. So now let's get started.
This episode of Our Life Beyond is proudly sponsored by Habit Coffee Company. Located
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(01:17):
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Make Habit Coffee your new habit today.
Hello Scott.
Hello Connie, how are you?
I'm doing okay. How are you? I heard you were under the weather.
Yeah, I think I may have COVID. This is probably my third day so I'm starting to feel better,
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but my voice is terrible. So I apologize about that, but this is just how dedicated we are.
We'll do a podcast while I'm feeling this way.
That's exactly right. Me with a broken leg and you with COVID.
We are a damn mess.
We are. Well, you know, it's Our Life Beyond. It's Our Life Beyond being a big, big old
mess.
(02:20):
Apparently. Hey, I'm going to do the intro today if you're okay with you.
Yeah, go ahead.
I'm going to jump into it. Okay. So today we're going to dive into part two of the series
that we've got on midlife career changes. Our guest is a guy that I believe I know pretty
well and you probably know a little bit better than me, Jeff King. He's a former CPA who
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made the incredible leap to become a fireman. We'll be exploring his journey from the quiet
world of numbers to the physical demanding and fast-paced world of firefighting. Jeff's
story is proof that it's never too late to follow your passion no matter how different
the path may seem. If you've ever wondered what it takes to make a radical career change
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in midlife, this episode is for you. So let's jump into it.
All right. One thing that was not made very clear in that is that Jeff is my husband. I
know him very, very well.
Well, that's why I said you know him a little better than me.
I'm really excited to interview him because one of the first things that really attracted
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me to him was actually this story because it showed me.
Bullshit. You wanted a fireman's calendar since the day I met you. That's bullshit.
You know it, Conn.
Well, listen, that didn't hurt that he was hot as hell, but it really did attract me
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to him that he was so brave and truly, truly put a moral foundation in his life that led
to this and we'll get to his story. So Jeff is my husband. I know the story, but I still
have a lot of questions. So with that being said, hello, Jeff.
(04:10):
Hello.
So glad that you agreed to come on the show, Jeff. You've got a great story and I think
I think we're going to dig a lot of details out of it.
Yeah. Jeff.
Well, let's fire away.
Jeff keeps thinking, sorry, babe, don't mean to interrupt, but Jeff keeps thinking this
is going to take like 10 minutes. He doesn't think his story is that thrilling and it's
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so funny because everybody I talked to is like, what? How did he do that? So why don't
you start telling us a little bit about your life?
Oh, wow. Where do I start with that?
Yeah.
Well, let's back things up to it. It's not exactly a midlife job change, but it's fairly
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close. I was in my mid-30s and I had been, I guess for probably about 12 or 13 years,
had been in the accounting world. When my education passed after high school, I went
to college and I wasn't real thrilled about going to school. I never really applied myself,
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but I did okay and made it to college. When I got to college, for some reason, I thought,
I'm going to make the most of this. I started thinking about, well, what's the most amount
of money I can make in four years of college? Business had always been something, an area
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that had always intrigued me. My sister was actually a CPA, so I thought, accounting,
you learn the language of the finance world and of business. I thought that was a great
place to go and to start. I went through four years of college and I studied my butt off.
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I worked very well, or excuse me, worked very hard and did very well as far as grades are
concerned. I went on what I thought was the journey that I should go on, which was get
a good job with a good company and work your career with them and they'll take care of
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you. What I mean by that is, of course, of finances and not only your salary, but benefits
and retirement as well. But as we have seen the last several years, companies shifting
away from providing retirement benefits to their employees and a pension or something
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of that nature, everything's shifting to self-funded retirement and IRAs, 401Ks, 403Bs, and things
like that. Companies no longer have that long-term investment in you, in my opinion. They're
putting the burden of paying for retirement on the employees as opposed to the company.
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I get that because costs are rising. I went into what I thought was a very good, stable
career path with a lot of rewards. I just choose the right company and everything will
be great. Everything in life will be perfect with a great company.
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What I didn't realize or actually think too much about was, what am I doing on a day-to-day
basis? Once I got into the accounting world, I went to public accounting right after college.
What I found was, I didn't really like the work, what I was actually doing. For those
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of you that know me, I'm kind of the hands-on type guy. I like doing things myself as opposed
to paying somebody to do them, and I like being outside. I love doing manual labor kind
of things. Well, you can almost guess how well that goes with a desk job. I didn't enjoy
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being behind a desk in an office or when I was auditing, I spent a lot of time in boardrooms
because I would travel a significant amount. It was a big, eyes-wide opening event for
me to realize that I didn't really like the work in the career path that I'd chosen.
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After you kind of step back, when you get to that point, you're like, wow, I just invested
four years of college and I just spent an additional time studying for the CPA exam,
which I did that and passed that. I thought, wow, I have so much invested in this, I got
to keep going. I don't necessarily like the work, but I've got to keep going.
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So I, a couple of years into public accounting and I didn't like it anymore. I worked quite
a bit, traveled quite a bit, and it just didn't feel like what I was doing was meaningful.
We would go in, we'd look at a company's books to see if they're being truthful. Do
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they have what they say they have? Do they have income? Do they have these expenses?
Do they have all the assets? So basically, we would just go in and verify. We didn't
really provide anything I felt like. So I did make a little bit of a change about two
and a half, three years into my accounting career. I went from public accounting to private
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accounting. So I ended up working for a local company in Springfield, a manufacturing company
and I enjoyed that more. But again, I think some of those same old feelings of, man, I'm
stuck living my life on a computer screen. Scott can relate to this. I lived my life
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in Excel. I don't know how many hours, days, maybe even weeks and years that I've spent
in Excel. But it's a great tool. But when you do that day in, day out, it just, it just
wasn't a great fit for me. So at that point, that's when I really started looking about
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making a career change.
So what led to the career change? What was finally the thing that, well, first of all,
what were the things you were exploring and kind of back up? How long had you been in
accounting? Tell me what you were exploring as far as a career change and why you were
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looking at a career change?
So one thing I did want to be very careful about was I didn't want to invest time and
effort into another dead end road. I didn't want to, one of the things I actually thought
about was going to law school.
Oh, wow.
Maybe I wanted to be a tax attorney or do something like that. And I would, I can guarantee
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you, I would have had no problem going through law school, studying, passing the bar. I wouldn't
have had that problem. It would have taken some effort. Yeah, but I could have done it.
But I would have been right back in the same boat, back at a desk job, back, you know,
on a computer all the time.
So what I did was I looked around at some of the books that were available. And one of
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the books I found was called What Color Is Your Parachute? I believe that's the name
of it. And it got the workbook that went along with it. But basically it went through. And
if you did the workbook and read the book along with it, you know, you would identify
these different skill sets that you enjoy doing and might be a good career for you.
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So while I'm very analytical and very, well, I guess that's just what I should say. I'm
very numbers oriented. I'm very numbers oriented and analytical. So finance, accounting and
things are all things that I kind of gear towards as far as my skill set. But some of
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the other things that I like, deep, you know, being physical, working outdoors, it's not
a match for the financial world. I do remember, it's ironically enough, the first thing that
or the first, excuse me, let me step back. I do remember my number one career path was
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farmer. Which me knowing you makes complete sense. I'm like, absolutely, yes.
Exactly. I mean, I came both my great-grandfathers were farmers. All my great-grandfathers were
farmers, I think. Both grandfathers were, my dad was. But when I was very young, we sold
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off the family farm and I never got a piece of that. Meaning, I never partook in that.
I never lived on the farm. I never had the farm life, if you will. But one thing I did
know was you just can't make any money in farming, unless your family owns the land
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and the equipment. You don't have to borrow money, then you might make some money. But
farming was no way. Wasn't going to do that. The good thing about that, Jeff, is you being
a CPA, you identified that right off and said, we're going to lose money if I become a farmer.
So, see, going to school kept you from losing a ton of money as a farmer.
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There you go. There you go. There was the benefit, babe.
Well, and then I think one of the, and I don't remember what it was number two, but it was
probably number two or three, but it was firefighting. And I knew some people that were firefighters
and I thought, I think I can get into this. And the more I looked into it, the more it
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seemed to be a great fit. A lot of fire departments around here work, not your typical schedule.
They don't work eight to five hours. So most departments around where we live either work
24 on and 48 hours off, or they'll actually work 48 hours on and then have 96 hours or
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four days off. So while you're working a lot of hours and you kind of compact them all
together, I worked 24 on, had 48 off. So to me, I thought it was great. I can work every
third day and have two days off. Why not? That seems like a great fit. Plus at that
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time, my son was pretty small. I believe he was a little over a year old. And I wanted
to be more, I wanted to be a bigger part of his life than just seeing the nights and weekends.
I wanted to be with him with more time being available for my son and it just seemed like
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a win-win for me to go into the fire department world. So I did my homework, did my research,
tried to figure out what school or actually what training I needed. There's some firefighter
state certifications that I had to get and I had to get my EMT, emergency medical technician
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license. So then I started going, you know, preparing for that path for the career change.
Wow. Wow, are you ready for questions now? Because
I think Scott probably has a ton of them and I know I do. So you went, I am assuming
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well, and I know these things. You made close to $100,000 a year in your career as a CPA
and you chose to go almost a third of your salary. How did that affect you? Like tell
us about, because people listening are thinking, how the hell can I do that? That is a big,
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big jump and what made that something that you could deal with? So one of the things
that allowed me to make this career change was, unfortunately, my son's mother and I
separated and went through a divorce. So, you know, financially I definitely could not
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have done it had I still been married and being a firefighter with a 24-on-48-hour schedule
with my son, you know, that creates a little bit of actually some logistics challenges.
Because I worked every third day, I didn't work Monday through Friday like, you know,
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his typical schedule was. So, I guess what it allowed me to live with less income, but
I had to make some big changes. I mean, obviously in my spending and some of the things that
I had, I also did have some income from a couple other sources. Or excuse me, one other
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source, I did have some rental property at the time, so that helped offset part of it.
And once I was in the fire department for a few years, I actually did start up my own
business. I had a remodeling and refinishing business. And like most firefighters, they
do have either a side job or, well, most of them I do know, do have that side job and usually
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their spouse works. So, it's not a career where it's a one-person breadwinner. It definitely
takes more than just a fire department income, but they typically come with some good benefits.
So, it's a plus there. So, the time off, there's a trade-off somewhere, you just have to decide
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if it, you know, what is important in your life and what do you want to have and not
have.
You know, it's so interesting, Jeff, because, you know, of course, I got divorced. So, I
completely understand that track. And it seems like to me, and I don't know, Connie, if you've
heard this out of any of your friends or not, but whenever you get divorced, it seems like
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that's the easiest time for you to make any big changes in your life. Because as a guy,
I felt like fewer people depended on me than ever did. You know, I ended up going over
to a different company myself and I made a lot of changes in my life. And I think that
going through that divorce also kind of allowed you to.
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No, I do. Like I said, it wouldn't have been possible financially for me to make that switch
and still be in that marriage. But unfortunately, the marriage didn't work, but the career,
career change was ended up being a great thing for me.
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Which also allowed you more time with land and to, I think that was what your main goal
was.
It really was. I had mentioned to you earlier that, you know, I'm a hands-on type person.
I like doing things myself. That continues right on through being a parent. I love being
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there for my son. I love doing things with him. And, you know, I definitely didn't want
to pay to have someone else take care of him. I, you know, I wanted to be that dad. I wanted
to share those experiences with him. So those things were some important things, but we
kind of have to go back and look at some of the reasons I left the accounting world is
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because I just frankly was not happy. I didn't like what I did. I hated being, you know,
inside, stuck behind a computer. And it just, you do that for several years and it's almost
like I felt my life slipping away from me or my soul rotting because I'm just like,
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I'm not fulfilled. I'm not happy doing what I'm doing. So I've got to make some changes.
And being a firefighter was a, you know, a career where I could help people and I felt
like make a difference. And to me, that was a great, you know, career choice. That's something
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that I can go to work and be proud of. And, you know, again, part of the reason it was
such a great fit for me.
You know, this is kind of an eye-opening or this just popped into my head as an eye-opening
aha moment. You know, when you're married, you've really got to listen to what your
partner needs and wants because what you said, Jeff's exactly right in most relationships.
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If you would have went to your wife then and said, I'm going to go down to a third of the
pay because I want to do this, it would have never happened. And I think we're valuing,
well, I know we're valuing money over, over happiness more than we ever have. And part
of it we have to, I mean, everything's so much fucking more expensive than it ever has
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been. But somehow we've got to get back to, you know, a married couple agreeing that,
yeah, this isn't working out for either of us because you're unhappy. If you're unhappy,
that's half of the relationship. And, and it just doesn't seem like that's the way it
is anymore.
And that's exactly right. As his wife now, I've put myself in the position of his ex-wife.
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And I thought, what if Jeff came to me and said, oh, by the way, babe, I'm making all
this money and I'm going to go down to making a third of it. My first thought is my ass
you are, that's not happening. But then as we've talked, I thought, but would I want
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a miserable husband? Would I want a husband that was just so unhappy because that's going
to come into our relationship? Or would I be willing to also sacrifice some things for
the relationship for a healthy, healthy husband and a healthy relationship? And I hate to
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say it that it would be tough because it should just come really easy. Oh, of course, I want
a healthy relationship. But we do focus so much on money. But from a woman standpoint
or from a spouse's standpoint, that's the one thing I think that would be so important
is to understand my husband was dying inside. And that would be almost harder than the career
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change for me.
It should be, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And I think that's where, I mean, not only when you're talking about career changes,
but just kind of in general, I think everybody needs to take a look at is the stuff that
I'm buying with all this money that I make, is it really worth it? Or would it be better
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for me to have maybe less money and more time, more time with my family, more time to myself?
But Scott's got a good point. Everything is so expensive these days. We've gone through
this period of crazy inflation. I'm not going to go into the reason why we all know or have
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our ideas, but everything costs so much more expensive. Have you guys been seeing these
people that order, they have a Walmart list that they ordered in 2020, and then they ordered
the same Walmart list, grocery list again, and things have more than doubled.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's tough. It's not easy, but you kind of have to go through your priorities. What
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is your priority in life? A couple of things that I haven't mentioned. First of all, when
I was doing the public accounting thing, there was a lot of stress involved, a lot of stress,
a lot of hours. My goodness. Those people work a lot. I actually started having some
physical problems. I had a lot of some chest pains, had some heart palpitations, had some
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heart scans and things done. Turns out they just chalked it up to stress or acid reflux
and gave me a prescription and sent me on down the road. But I will tell you, once I
got out of that position, I never had that problem again.
Well, I was starting to have some physical symptoms in addition to the just not feeling
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fulfilled in life and not feeling happy. But I also, there was a gentleman that I knew that
was the head of his company. He'd been, worked his entire career at this one company. He'd
worked his way all the way up to the top, probably been there 25, 30 years. He had all
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the material things. He had the house, the family, he had the job, he had the lake house,
he had the boat, he had all the toys. But one of the things that made a huge impression
on me was he retired and within six months, he was diagnosed with a fatal disease and
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he passed away within six months of his retirement date.
Yeah, you hear about that a lot.
That's all I just mean.
It's hard. I'm like, I just, I can't live my life that way. I don't want to work, work,
work, work, work and then stop and then, you know, expect the enjoyment in life to be from
that point forward. So another two big reasons that I was like, yeah, I've got to do something
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different.
So what, what sparked your interest in firefighting? I know you had, you said you basically went
through and did, what was it, a survey?
Well it was a book. It was called What Color Is Your Parachute. So it basically, it was
a, you know, searching for your right career path, I guess. You know, I think the physical
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demands of, of firefighting, like I said, I, I enjoy doing things. I enjoy moving. I enjoy
being active. I don't feel good physically, mentally when I'm at a desk for eight, nine,
ten hours and then you do that 40 hours a week. You do that month after month. You do
that year after year and it, it does take a toll on your body. So I got in great shape,
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the best shape of my life, even better shape I was, you know, when I was in high school
and college. So I thought, hey, I get paid to work out. This is correct.
Is there anything on the mental side that you missed? I mean, it's so weird because
your first job was 100% mental. Your second job, which is it like 80, 20? And I don't
know anything about firefighting, but how much of that's mental? And did you miss anything
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as far as being mentally challenged?
No, I don't think I really did. I think I was so maxed out with what I was doing that
I just didn't enjoy it anymore. So the physical, excuse me, the, the mental part of it, I think
I had just reached the burnout stage and, but with firefighting, with firefighting,
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were you, um, how mental is that position? Because for me, I know what you went through
and I would say it's even more mental than accounting.
So I will tell you, I remember the first fire I ever went into. I remember standing just
outside the door before we were ready to go in and attack the fire and I'm sitting there
thinking, what in the world have I got myself into? Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm looking at
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this house with fire in it and I'm about to go in there. And then, yeah, the real me kicked
in and said, absolutely, hell yeah, we're going. And I, you know, you do have to face
your fears. Um, I guess I'm a little better at facing my fears when they're, um, in front
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of me or maybe physical. I got tired of the, the, the mental challenge. So I don't know
if that, you know, maybe as I'm sitting here saying this, maybe it helps me, um, deal with
some of that other mental stuff in the fire department. But you know, it does, it does
take some mental strength to control your emotions, both on the fire scene, excuse me,
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both on the fire scene, but you'd also have to have that on car wrecks and then especially
on medamins. So especially, you know, when you're a serious medical situation, someone's
life is on the line. The decisions you make sometimes can be life or death. So yeah, Connie's
right. Parts of it can be extremely, um, stressful, but it's not as ongoing and say another job
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was. Does that make sense? Yeah, it absolutely does. And, and, and that, you know, I really,
I don't know why I didn't think of it that way, but, but yeah, mentally that's probably
as challenging if not more. I know that you had, you know, our listeners are thinking,
oh, this is a great story. It's easy to just switch jobs, but it's not because there were
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some things that you also, there were pros and cons. So let's talk about some of those
big cons, not just financially, but what else did you have to give up or, um, you know,
just be okay with by going to the fire department? Yeah, I think, I mean, number one, your spending
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habits obviously have to change drastically. Um, and didn't necessarily go on as many vacations
and things like that. Um, to me, the trade off was, um, was worth it. I was so miserable
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in the professional world that going over and making these changes to do something that
made me happy. It just made them easy and it made them easier. Let me say that. But,
um, yeah, when, when you're absolutely miserable doing something, even something difficult can
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seem not a big deal. Whenever you made this choice that I'm going to become a firefighter,
I got two questions here. The first one is how did you share that with your family and
friends and did they, were they shocked as hell because it was such a dramatic change
or did they actually kind of get what you were doing? So my family knew, um, how I was
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feeling. They knew that I didn't enjoy my job. They knew that I wasn't happy. Um, and
then when I talked about the fire department, I think there were some concerns, of course,
because of a personal safety issue, but they knew that that's something that more was more
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suited to my personality. I had a cousin that, uh, I remember we had this discussion. He
goes, I remember Jeff, when you told me you were going into CPA after, after college,
he goes, you know, that didn't make a lot of sense to me. He's like, but now you're,
you know, you're going to become a firefighter. So you're that guy that when everybody else
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is running out of the building that's on fire, you're running in and I'm like, yep, that's
it. That's Jeff. So yeah, it just, it just, it's better suited towards what I do and
what I like.
Well, that's awesome. It sounds like you had the support you needed there. So second
question, how hard was it for people or when you went and applied for people to go, a CPA
(32:54):
is coming over to become a firefighter or was that typical? Do they see a lot of people
that comes out of a different, that come out of a different industry into firefighting?
One industry's yes, accounting no. As far as I know, I think I'm by the only CPA turned
firefighter out there. There are several guys that, and I'm sure gals too, but have gone
(33:19):
into the fire service and then they pursue like a degree or another business or something
like that. So people can use the fire service as a, you know, a stepping stone to where they
want to get. I actually used it, you know, to where I wanted to be and it worked well
for me and kind of alluding to what Connie was saying earlier, it wasn't all easy. It
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wasn't all fine and dandy. I mean, there were hard choices to make as I can't afford this.
I can't afford that. But in the end, when I look at, you know, my overall quality of
life and just when I wake up in the morning and I didn't dread going to work, I was excited
to go to work. You know, that meant so much to me.
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Yeah. And you know what's cool about kids or in my experience, and I know every kid's
different, but kids don't really give a shit about the money. They don't know what you
make in whatever career you're in. All they care about is they've got some shoes, they've
got some clothes, they eat well, you know, and that's it. And they just want you happy.
So it's neat because you didn't really have to worry about what he was going to think.
(34:30):
No, I didn't. And one of the things, you know, it's minor, but it was huge to me and it was
huge to Landon is I got to go to his school when he was in elementary year after year
and Landon would be like, yeah, my dad's going to come. He's going to put on his fire gear.
They're going to bring the fire engine. And you know, I could, I can still see the smile
(34:53):
on his face when I got to go to his, you know, several of his classrooms and I just, you
know, that meant the world to me. So it was awesome.
You were the hero.
This is a real question, Jeff. How many times did you get hit on by the teachers?
Never.
Shit, I doubt it.
He wouldn't have known.
Well, none of us would.
Let me just tell you. Goodness.
(35:15):
A lot of times I'm so oblivious to that stuff. I have my mind somewhere else and I wouldn't
even know.
Well, what other things do you think people should know if they are thinking about a huge,
huge career change? What are some things they need to consider, not just financially?
(35:37):
Well, I think you, you're going to have to, I think you need to first of all do some soul
searching. What, you know, who are you as a human being? What is it you want out of your
life? You know, what if you were, I've heard some people say this, but if you were to plan
(35:59):
your own funeral, what would you want them to say?
And so I'm sitting there thinking, oh, yeah, Jeff spent 30 years and he was a great accountant.
Or, you know, Jeff spent, you know, 15 years as a firefighter. Yeah. I can tell you which
(36:20):
one I would pick, but, you know, in the end, I didn't really do it for, you know, I didn't
do it for anybody else. I did it for me. But that's, that's, that's my point. You need
to first figure out who you are, what you like, what you don't like, and then figure
out something that fits for you. It fits your skills, fits your, your likes, your dislikes.
(36:41):
And then obviously it's got to fit in with your family. So I think it's just a stage
or excuse me, a one step process, one step after the other. And you figure out what works
for you. Some changes are just, you know, this change wouldn't have worked at other
points in my life, but it worked, you know, at that time. So I think, you know, you have
(37:05):
to look at, search your own heart and soul, what it is you want to do, get the buy-in
from your family, and then figure out, you know, what you can do. You're going to have
to make a budget long-term and figure out how you can, you know, pay for this or survive.
But like I said, you know, I didn't just have the fire department income. I had rental property.
(37:26):
I had a business on the side. So it did help those things. So if you can find other ways
to make up the shortfall, then, you know, you can make things work.
Yeah. I mean, life is all about, you know, that personal fulfillment. It really is.
If you don't feel like you're fulfilling a need, especially one that you've got, it's
(37:49):
just it. You have to change your career. Yeah. You really do. Okay. I've got a very deep
question now. Don't roll your eyes, Connie, because you know it's true. Okay. Okay. You've
got a son. So I know, and I know a little bit about, you know, the career path that
he's taking and everything. And I don't want everybody beating me up saying that I'm against
(38:12):
college because I'm not. I went to college later in life. But Jeff, what would you, if
a parent wanted to help their son or daughter to figure out what career path they went down,
what could they do to help? Because, I mean, like with you, you went down a career path
that it sounds like even everybody from the outside said, I don't know why you went down
(38:33):
that direction. We didn't think that was even going to be a fit for you.
So I think you have to begin. We all tend to think we want security. We want financial
security for our kids. And, you know, as a father, I can't fault that at all. You know,
I would love for my son to have plenty of money. But I think I've taken a different
(38:56):
approach with my son as far as I didn't tell him what I thought he needed to do. I tried
to let him figure it out on his own and guide him. College was not the right path for my
son. College was the path that I took. I'm not saying either one is better or worse,
(39:19):
but different paths fit different people. You have to ask yourself, what am I going
to be doing day in, day out? And I really wish I would have thought more about that.
I would have realized, well, yeah, you're probably going to be in an office behind a
computer all day. So I would encourage people to think about what it is, their strengths,
(39:43):
their weaknesses, what their likes and their dislikes, and they really need to incorporate
that into their career path because we spend more time at our jobs than we do our own family.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you got to do something that at least makes sense.
Do you think that job shadowing, if you would have job shadowed somebody for a few days as a
(40:06):
CPA, do you think that would have changed your mind? Absolutely. I'd be doing something
different today. I probably would have gotten a computer major or excuse me, a minor or maybe
even a double major because I thought about going into computer or information systems at the time,
but I wanted to be out of college. I was so burnt out and I just wanted to be done with school.
(40:30):
So I just jumped into that job. Whereas if I would have did an internship or taken some time,
I would have realized, yeah, I probably need to go a different route.
I think that's why you see so many people that end up with double majors.
Yep. And they spend so much money to get to that point. And if that's the right path for you,
(40:53):
then great. But I do think that it's an expensive way to try and figure out what you want to do.
And I don't want to at all talk bad about the college dream or the college
education, if you will. It works for some people. If you want to be a doctor, if you want to be a
(41:15):
lawyer, if you want to be a CPA, those are the ways to go. And that's the path to get there.
But consider trade schools. Consider other options besides taking on this considerable amount of debt,
getting a college education because those, what are they called? The counselors or people at school
(41:39):
that forget that. Yeah, they're counselors.
The counselors, but they're not going to say, oh, well, think about what career you go and what job
you can get when you want to live. It's like they don't link the dots. But sit there and think about
what is it, where do you want to live? What do you want to do? And consider the trades because
(42:01):
you can get out of school in years less time, be thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands
of dollars in less debt and have a great, even some of the trades, you can get six figure
incomes. So the world is changing. You don't have to have the college education. But if that's
(42:21):
what you want, great, go for it. The other thing is, as I've watched Jeff's son, and as I've watched
Jeff, I'll say guide, that's not really what's happening. But Jeff is not married to the idea of
what Landon is going to do. And I think so many parents, like he said, they get really stuck on
(42:46):
the security aspect for their children. And they'll be like, oh, no, you have to go to college. That's
the most secure way. That's the most, this is that their ego really gets involved rather than, oh,
you're going to become a plumber and truly be secure. There are so many people who, you know,
think college is the only way to do it. And I would say after watching Jeff with Landon,
(43:09):
just don't be like that. Like, there's many ways to be secure. So, you know, college is not the
only way like he was saying. And if it fits your child better, hallelujah, let them go do it and
be happier. And I can definitely speak to having a college degree does not make you more secure
(43:31):
in the job today. So, first of all, I ended up, I went all the way through school. My employer
paid for all of it. So, I did get the college degree, I do understand the benefits of it. And
the benefits really are it gets your foot in the door a little bit easier. It really does. It doesn't
mean that you can do the job any better. But in today's world, especially in the tech world,
(43:54):
like where I'm at, look at Amazon, look at Facebook and look at a few of the other companies out
there that got rid of, you know, between 10,000 and 50,000 employees. I can almost promise you
95% of those were college graduates. Any other thoughts, Jeff, on switching careers?
I would just encourage people to don't rule out a career change, no matter what
(44:26):
point in your career you are. It might work, it might not. But don't be so scared to make a change
just because you have, say, you know, I had over 10 years invested in the accounting world.
And that could have been enough to say, oh, no, I can't do this. I, you know, I've already got
(44:49):
10 years of work and four years of college invested in this. I can't change. Well,
had I not made the change that I would be, I can guarantee you, I would not be nearly as happy
as I am today. I would not enjoy, you know, what it is that I do. Had I not made that switch. So,
you know, don't let time invested in a prior career or education path keep you from searching for
(45:20):
a better fit. I agree with that 100%. Got it. Well, thank you for sharing your story. And
I'm so glad that you were brave enough to make that change because I think you are just a happier
person for it based on what I've been told. All right. Well, thank you so much, Jeff. I do appreciate
(45:41):
this. And you know, for me, it was such an interesting story because that huge change like
that, I've not done that. I've kept in the same career path, just changed jobs. And I've often
wondered, you know, what it would look like to do something like this. So getting your view on this,
not only did it help me a lot, but I think it'll help parents understand their kids, if their kids
(46:07):
decide that college isn't the right career, or, you know, if they decide to change jobs after
getting out of college, that it's going to be okay. And I think this is something that's really
important to get out to everybody. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. And I think it'll also help adults
hopefully not be so fearful of making a change if they're miserable. Absolutely. All right.
(46:33):
Well, thank you so much. Yes. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you both.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond. We really hope that
you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought us a smile to your day. If
you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your favorite
platform and leave us a review. For more information, resources or show notes, visit our
(46:58):
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(47:23):
Life Beyond, any challenge is possible and we're here to navigate it with you. Stay strong, stay
positive and keep moving forward.
Well, hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Our Life Beyond the podcast where we explore how
(00:12):
to navigate and hopefully thrive through some of life's biggest transitions. I'm your
co-host Scott Dibben and I've teamed up with my great friend and mentor Connie King to
share some stories, strategies and insights that helped us adapt to the ever-changing
seasons of our life. Whether your life transition is divorce, death of a loved one, switching
(00:34):
careers, moving to a new city, or just trying to figure out what the hell is next, where
with you every step of the way. But always remember we're not therapists, just fellow
travelers with a knack for finding humor in the chaos, and maybe some untraditional method
of overcoming what life dishes out to us. Hopefully you'll have fun embarking on this
(00:55):
journey. So now let's get started.
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(01:17):
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Hello Scott.
Hello Connie, how are you?
I'm doing okay. How are you? I heard you were under the weather.
Yeah, I think I may have COVID. This is probably my third day so I'm starting to feel better,
(01:59):
but my voice is terrible. So I apologize about that, but this is just how dedicated we are.
We'll do a podcast while I'm feeling this way.
That's exactly right. Me with a broken leg and you with COVID.
We are a damn mess.
We are. Well, you know, it's Our Life Beyond. It's Our Life Beyond being a big, big old
mess.
(02:20):
Apparently. Hey, I'm going to do the intro today if you're okay with you.
Yeah, go ahead.
I'm going to jump into it. Okay. So today we're going to dive into part two of the series
that we've got on midlife career changes. Our guest is a guy that I believe I know pretty
well and you probably know a little bit better than me, Jeff King. He's a former CPA who
(02:43):
made the incredible leap to become a fireman. We'll be exploring his journey from the quiet
world of numbers to the physical demanding and fast-paced world of firefighting. Jeff's
story is proof that it's never too late to follow your passion no matter how different
the path may seem. If you've ever wondered what it takes to make a radical career change
(03:04):
in midlife, this episode is for you. So let's jump into it.
All right. One thing that was not made very clear in that is that Jeff is my husband. I
know him very, very well.
Well, that's why I said you know him a little better than me.
I'm really excited to interview him because one of the first things that really attracted
(03:25):
me to him was actually this story because it showed me.
Bullshit. You wanted a fireman's calendar since the day I met you. That's bullshit.
You know it, Conn.
Well, listen, that didn't hurt that he was hot as hell, but it really did attract me
(03:48):
to him that he was so brave and truly, truly put a moral foundation in his life that led
to this and we'll get to his story. So Jeff is my husband. I know the story, but I still
have a lot of questions. So with that being said, hello, Jeff.
(04:10):
Hello.
So glad that you agreed to come on the show, Jeff. You've got a great story and I think
I think we're going to dig a lot of details out of it.
Yeah. Jeff.
Well, let's fire away.
Jeff keeps thinking, sorry, babe, don't mean to interrupt, but Jeff keeps thinking this
is going to take like 10 minutes. He doesn't think his story is that thrilling and it's
(04:31):
so funny because everybody I talked to is like, what? How did he do that? So why don't
you start telling us a little bit about your life?
Oh, wow. Where do I start with that?
Yeah.
Well, let's back things up to it. It's not exactly a midlife job change, but it's fairly
(04:55):
close. I was in my mid-30s and I had been, I guess for probably about 12 or 13 years,
had been in the accounting world. When my education passed after high school, I went
to college and I wasn't real thrilled about going to school. I never really applied myself,
(05:18):
but I did okay and made it to college. When I got to college, for some reason, I thought,
I'm going to make the most of this. I started thinking about, well, what's the most amount
of money I can make in four years of college? Business had always been something, an area
(05:42):
that had always intrigued me. My sister was actually a CPA, so I thought, accounting,
you learn the language of the finance world and of business. I thought that was a great
place to go and to start. I went through four years of college and I studied my butt off.
(06:04):
I worked very well, or excuse me, worked very hard and did very well as far as grades are
concerned. I went on what I thought was the journey that I should go on, which was get
a good job with a good company and work your career with them and they'll take care of
(06:26):
you. What I mean by that is, of course, of finances and not only your salary, but benefits
and retirement as well. But as we have seen the last several years, companies shifting
away from providing retirement benefits to their employees and a pension or something
(06:47):
of that nature, everything's shifting to self-funded retirement and IRAs, 401Ks, 403Bs, and things
like that. Companies no longer have that long-term investment in you, in my opinion. They're
putting the burden of paying for retirement on the employees as opposed to the company.
(07:11):
I get that because costs are rising. I went into what I thought was a very good, stable
career path with a lot of rewards. I just choose the right company and everything will
be great. Everything in life will be perfect with a great company.
(07:33):
What I didn't realize or actually think too much about was, what am I doing on a day-to-day
basis? Once I got into the accounting world, I went to public accounting right after college.
What I found was, I didn't really like the work, what I was actually doing. For those
(07:57):
of you that know me, I'm kind of the hands-on type guy. I like doing things myself as opposed
to paying somebody to do them, and I like being outside. I love doing manual labor kind
of things. Well, you can almost guess how well that goes with a desk job. I didn't enjoy
(08:21):
being behind a desk in an office or when I was auditing, I spent a lot of time in boardrooms
because I would travel a significant amount. It was a big, eyes-wide opening event for
me to realize that I didn't really like the work in the career path that I'd chosen.
(08:47):
After you kind of step back, when you get to that point, you're like, wow, I just invested
four years of college and I just spent an additional time studying for the CPA exam,
which I did that and passed that. I thought, wow, I have so much invested in this, I got
to keep going. I don't necessarily like the work, but I've got to keep going.
(09:11):
So I, a couple of years into public accounting and I didn't like it anymore. I worked quite
a bit, traveled quite a bit, and it just didn't feel like what I was doing was meaningful.
We would go in, we'd look at a company's books to see if they're being truthful. Do
(09:32):
they have what they say they have? Do they have income? Do they have these expenses?
Do they have all the assets? So basically, we would just go in and verify. We didn't
really provide anything I felt like. So I did make a little bit of a change about two
and a half, three years into my accounting career. I went from public accounting to private
(09:55):
accounting. So I ended up working for a local company in Springfield, a manufacturing company
and I enjoyed that more. But again, I think some of those same old feelings of, man, I'm
stuck living my life on a computer screen. Scott can relate to this. I lived my life
(10:17):
in Excel. I don't know how many hours, days, maybe even weeks and years that I've spent
in Excel. But it's a great tool. But when you do that day in, day out, it just, it just
wasn't a great fit for me. So at that point, that's when I really started looking about
(10:39):
making a career change.
So what led to the career change? What was finally the thing that, well, first of all,
what were the things you were exploring and kind of back up? How long had you been in
accounting? Tell me what you were exploring as far as a career change and why you were
(10:59):
looking at a career change?
So one thing I did want to be very careful about was I didn't want to invest time and
effort into another dead end road. I didn't want to, one of the things I actually thought
about was going to law school.
Oh, wow.
Maybe I wanted to be a tax attorney or do something like that. And I would, I can guarantee
(11:24):
you, I would have had no problem going through law school, studying, passing the bar. I wouldn't
have had that problem. It would have taken some effort. Yeah, but I could have done it.
But I would have been right back in the same boat, back at a desk job, back, you know,
on a computer all the time.
So what I did was I looked around at some of the books that were available. And one of
(11:50):
the books I found was called What Color Is Your Parachute? I believe that's the name
of it. And it got the workbook that went along with it. But basically it went through. And
if you did the workbook and read the book along with it, you know, you would identify
these different skill sets that you enjoy doing and might be a good career for you.
(12:13):
So while I'm very analytical and very, well, I guess that's just what I should say. I'm
very numbers oriented. I'm very numbers oriented and analytical. So finance, accounting and
things are all things that I kind of gear towards as far as my skill set. But some of
(12:38):
the other things that I like, deep, you know, being physical, working outdoors, it's not
a match for the financial world. I do remember, it's ironically enough, the first thing that
or the first, excuse me, let me step back. I do remember my number one career path was
(13:01):
farmer. Which me knowing you makes complete sense. I'm like, absolutely, yes.
Exactly. I mean, I came both my great-grandfathers were farmers. All my great-grandfathers were
farmers, I think. Both grandfathers were, my dad was. But when I was very young, we sold
(13:23):
off the family farm and I never got a piece of that. Meaning, I never partook in that.
I never lived on the farm. I never had the farm life, if you will. But one thing I did
know was you just can't make any money in farming, unless your family owns the land
(13:44):
and the equipment. You don't have to borrow money, then you might make some money. But
farming was no way. Wasn't going to do that. The good thing about that, Jeff, is you being
a CPA, you identified that right off and said, we're going to lose money if I become a farmer.
So, see, going to school kept you from losing a ton of money as a farmer.
(14:07):
There you go. There you go. There was the benefit, babe.
Well, and then I think one of the, and I don't remember what it was number two, but it was
probably number two or three, but it was firefighting. And I knew some people that were firefighters
and I thought, I think I can get into this. And the more I looked into it, the more it
(14:27):
seemed to be a great fit. A lot of fire departments around here work, not your typical schedule.
They don't work eight to five hours. So most departments around where we live either work
24 on and 48 hours off, or they'll actually work 48 hours on and then have 96 hours or
(14:53):
four days off. So while you're working a lot of hours and you kind of compact them all
together, I worked 24 on, had 48 off. So to me, I thought it was great. I can work every
third day and have two days off. Why not? That seems like a great fit. Plus at that
(15:15):
time, my son was pretty small. I believe he was a little over a year old. And I wanted
to be more, I wanted to be a bigger part of his life than just seeing the nights and weekends.
I wanted to be with him with more time being available for my son and it just seemed like
(15:39):
a win-win for me to go into the fire department world. So I did my homework, did my research,
tried to figure out what school or actually what training I needed. There's some firefighter
state certifications that I had to get and I had to get my EMT, emergency medical technician
(16:01):
license. So then I started going, you know, preparing for that path for the career change.
Wow. Wow, are you ready for questions now? Because
I think Scott probably has a ton of them and I know I do. So you went, I am assuming
(16:24):
well, and I know these things. You made close to $100,000 a year in your career as a CPA
and you chose to go almost a third of your salary. How did that affect you? Like tell
us about, because people listening are thinking, how the hell can I do that? That is a big,
(16:48):
big jump and what made that something that you could deal with? So one of the things
that allowed me to make this career change was, unfortunately, my son's mother and I
separated and went through a divorce. So, you know, financially I definitely could not
(17:12):
have done it had I still been married and being a firefighter with a 24-on-48-hour schedule
with my son, you know, that creates a little bit of actually some logistics challenges.
Because I worked every third day, I didn't work Monday through Friday like, you know,
(17:35):
his typical schedule was. So, I guess what it allowed me to live with less income, but
I had to make some big changes. I mean, obviously in my spending and some of the things that
I had, I also did have some income from a couple other sources. Or excuse me, one other
(18:03):
source, I did have some rental property at the time, so that helped offset part of it.
And once I was in the fire department for a few years, I actually did start up my own
business. I had a remodeling and refinishing business. And like most firefighters, they
do have either a side job or, well, most of them I do know, do have that side job and usually
(18:26):
their spouse works. So, it's not a career where it's a one-person breadwinner. It definitely
takes more than just a fire department income, but they typically come with some good benefits.
So, it's a plus there. So, the time off, there's a trade-off somewhere, you just have to decide
(18:52):
if it, you know, what is important in your life and what do you want to have and not
have.
You know, it's so interesting, Jeff, because, you know, of course, I got divorced. So, I
completely understand that track. And it seems like to me, and I don't know, Connie, if you've
heard this out of any of your friends or not, but whenever you get divorced, it seems like
(19:14):
that's the easiest time for you to make any big changes in your life. Because as a guy,
I felt like fewer people depended on me than ever did. You know, I ended up going over
to a different company myself and I made a lot of changes in my life. And I think that
going through that divorce also kind of allowed you to.
(19:35):
No, I do. Like I said, it wouldn't have been possible financially for me to make that switch
and still be in that marriage. But unfortunately, the marriage didn't work, but the career,
career change was ended up being a great thing for me.
(19:55):
Which also allowed you more time with land and to, I think that was what your main goal
was.
It really was. I had mentioned to you earlier that, you know, I'm a hands-on type person.
I like doing things myself. That continues right on through being a parent. I love being
(20:16):
there for my son. I love doing things with him. And, you know, I definitely didn't want
to pay to have someone else take care of him. I, you know, I wanted to be that dad. I wanted
to share those experiences with him. So those things were some important things, but we
kind of have to go back and look at some of the reasons I left the accounting world is
(20:37):
because I just frankly was not happy. I didn't like what I did. I hated being, you know,
inside, stuck behind a computer. And it just, you do that for several years and it's almost
like I felt my life slipping away from me or my soul rotting because I'm just like,
(20:58):
I'm not fulfilled. I'm not happy doing what I'm doing. So I've got to make some changes.
And being a firefighter was a, you know, a career where I could help people and I felt
like make a difference. And to me, that was a great, you know, career choice. That's something
(21:19):
that I can go to work and be proud of. And, you know, again, part of the reason it was
such a great fit for me.
You know, this is kind of an eye-opening or this just popped into my head as an eye-opening
aha moment. You know, when you're married, you've really got to listen to what your
partner needs and wants because what you said, Jeff's exactly right in most relationships.
(21:41):
If you would have went to your wife then and said, I'm going to go down to a third of the
pay because I want to do this, it would have never happened. And I think we're valuing,
well, I know we're valuing money over, over happiness more than we ever have. And part
of it we have to, I mean, everything's so much fucking more expensive than it ever has
(22:02):
been. But somehow we've got to get back to, you know, a married couple agreeing that,
yeah, this isn't working out for either of us because you're unhappy. If you're unhappy,
that's half of the relationship. And, and it just doesn't seem like that's the way it
is anymore.
And that's exactly right. As his wife now, I've put myself in the position of his ex-wife.
(22:25):
And I thought, what if Jeff came to me and said, oh, by the way, babe, I'm making all
this money and I'm going to go down to making a third of it. My first thought is my ass
you are, that's not happening. But then as we've talked, I thought, but would I want
(22:45):
a miserable husband? Would I want a husband that was just so unhappy because that's going
to come into our relationship? Or would I be willing to also sacrifice some things for
the relationship for a healthy, healthy husband and a healthy relationship? And I hate to
(23:06):
say it that it would be tough because it should just come really easy. Oh, of course, I want
a healthy relationship. But we do focus so much on money. But from a woman standpoint
or from a spouse's standpoint, that's the one thing I think that would be so important
is to understand my husband was dying inside. And that would be almost harder than the career
(23:31):
change for me.
It should be, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And I think that's where, I mean, not only when you're talking about career changes,
but just kind of in general, I think everybody needs to take a look at is the stuff that
I'm buying with all this money that I make, is it really worth it? Or would it be better
(23:57):
for me to have maybe less money and more time, more time with my family, more time to myself?
But Scott's got a good point. Everything is so expensive these days. We've gone through
this period of crazy inflation. I'm not going to go into the reason why we all know or have
(24:19):
our ideas, but everything costs so much more expensive. Have you guys been seeing these
people that order, they have a Walmart list that they ordered in 2020, and then they ordered
the same Walmart list, grocery list again, and things have more than doubled.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's tough. It's not easy, but you kind of have to go through your priorities. What
(24:43):
is your priority in life? A couple of things that I haven't mentioned. First of all, when
I was doing the public accounting thing, there was a lot of stress involved, a lot of stress,
a lot of hours. My goodness. Those people work a lot. I actually started having some
physical problems. I had a lot of some chest pains, had some heart palpitations, had some
(25:07):
heart scans and things done. Turns out they just chalked it up to stress or acid reflux
and gave me a prescription and sent me on down the road. But I will tell you, once I
got out of that position, I never had that problem again.
Well, I was starting to have some physical symptoms in addition to the just not feeling
(25:32):
fulfilled in life and not feeling happy. But I also, there was a gentleman that I knew that
was the head of his company. He'd been, worked his entire career at this one company. He'd
worked his way all the way up to the top, probably been there 25, 30 years. He had all
(25:52):
the material things. He had the house, the family, he had the job, he had the lake house,
he had the boat, he had all the toys. But one of the things that made a huge impression
on me was he retired and within six months, he was diagnosed with a fatal disease and
(26:15):
he passed away within six months of his retirement date.
Yeah, you hear about that a lot.
That's all I just mean.
It's hard. I'm like, I just, I can't live my life that way. I don't want to work, work,
work, work, work and then stop and then, you know, expect the enjoyment in life to be from
that point forward. So another two big reasons that I was like, yeah, I've got to do something
(26:41):
different.
So what, what sparked your interest in firefighting? I know you had, you said you basically went
through and did, what was it, a survey?
Well it was a book. It was called What Color Is Your Parachute. So it basically, it was
a, you know, searching for your right career path, I guess. You know, I think the physical
(27:01):
demands of, of firefighting, like I said, I, I enjoy doing things. I enjoy moving. I enjoy
being active. I don't feel good physically, mentally when I'm at a desk for eight, nine,
ten hours and then you do that 40 hours a week. You do that month after month. You do
that year after year and it, it does take a toll on your body. So I got in great shape,
(27:29):
the best shape of my life, even better shape I was, you know, when I was in high school
and college. So I thought, hey, I get paid to work out. This is correct.
Is there anything on the mental side that you missed? I mean, it's so weird because
your first job was 100% mental. Your second job, which is it like 80, 20? And I don't
know anything about firefighting, but how much of that's mental? And did you miss anything
(27:52):
as far as being mentally challenged?
No, I don't think I really did. I think I was so maxed out with what I was doing that
I just didn't enjoy it anymore. So the physical, excuse me, the, the mental part of it, I think
I had just reached the burnout stage and, but with firefighting, with firefighting,
(28:19):
were you, um, how mental is that position? Because for me, I know what you went through
and I would say it's even more mental than accounting.
So I will tell you, I remember the first fire I ever went into. I remember standing just
outside the door before we were ready to go in and attack the fire and I'm sitting there
thinking, what in the world have I got myself into? Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm looking at
(28:44):
this house with fire in it and I'm about to go in there. And then, yeah, the real me kicked
in and said, absolutely, hell yeah, we're going. And I, you know, you do have to face
your fears. Um, I guess I'm a little better at facing my fears when they're, um, in front
(29:06):
of me or maybe physical. I got tired of the, the, the mental challenge. So I don't know
if that, you know, maybe as I'm sitting here saying this, maybe it helps me, um, deal with
some of that other mental stuff in the fire department. But you know, it does, it does
take some mental strength to control your emotions, both on the fire scene, excuse me,
(29:33):
both on the fire scene, but you'd also have to have that on car wrecks and then especially
on medamins. So especially, you know, when you're a serious medical situation, someone's
life is on the line. The decisions you make sometimes can be life or death. So yeah, Connie's
right. Parts of it can be extremely, um, stressful, but it's not as ongoing and say another job
(30:04):
was. Does that make sense? Yeah, it absolutely does. And, and, and that, you know, I really,
I don't know why I didn't think of it that way, but, but yeah, mentally that's probably
as challenging if not more. I know that you had, you know, our listeners are thinking,
oh, this is a great story. It's easy to just switch jobs, but it's not because there were
(30:25):
some things that you also, there were pros and cons. So let's talk about some of those
big cons, not just financially, but what else did you have to give up or, um, you know,
just be okay with by going to the fire department? Yeah, I think, I mean, number one, your spending
(30:46):
habits obviously have to change drastically. Um, and didn't necessarily go on as many vacations
and things like that. Um, to me, the trade off was, um, was worth it. I was so miserable
(31:06):
in the professional world that going over and making these changes to do something that
made me happy. It just made them easy and it made them easier. Let me say that. But,
um, yeah, when, when you're absolutely miserable doing something, even something difficult can
(31:26):
seem not a big deal. Whenever you made this choice that I'm going to become a firefighter,
I got two questions here. The first one is how did you share that with your family and
friends and did they, were they shocked as hell because it was such a dramatic change
or did they actually kind of get what you were doing? So my family knew, um, how I was
(31:50):
feeling. They knew that I didn't enjoy my job. They knew that I wasn't happy. Um, and
then when I talked about the fire department, I think there were some concerns, of course,
because of a personal safety issue, but they knew that that's something that more was more
(32:11):
suited to my personality. I had a cousin that, uh, I remember we had this discussion. He
goes, I remember Jeff, when you told me you were going into CPA after, after college,
he goes, you know, that didn't make a lot of sense to me. He's like, but now you're,
you know, you're going to become a firefighter. So you're that guy that when everybody else
(32:33):
is running out of the building that's on fire, you're running in and I'm like, yep, that's
it. That's Jeff. So yeah, it just, it just, it's better suited towards what I do and
what I like.
Well, that's awesome. It sounds like you had the support you needed there. So second
question, how hard was it for people or when you went and applied for people to go, a CPA
(32:54):
is coming over to become a firefighter or was that typical? Do they see a lot of people
that comes out of a different, that come out of a different industry into firefighting?
One industry's yes, accounting no. As far as I know, I think I'm by the only CPA turned
firefighter out there. There are several guys that, and I'm sure gals too, but have gone
(33:19):
into the fire service and then they pursue like a degree or another business or something
like that. So people can use the fire service as a, you know, a stepping stone to where they
want to get. I actually used it, you know, to where I wanted to be and it worked well
for me and kind of alluding to what Connie was saying earlier, it wasn't all easy. It
(33:44):
wasn't all fine and dandy. I mean, there were hard choices to make as I can't afford this.
I can't afford that. But in the end, when I look at, you know, my overall quality of
life and just when I wake up in the morning and I didn't dread going to work, I was excited
to go to work. You know, that meant so much to me.
(34:06):
Yeah. And you know what's cool about kids or in my experience, and I know every kid's
different, but kids don't really give a shit about the money. They don't know what you
make in whatever career you're in. All they care about is they've got some shoes, they've
got some clothes, they eat well, you know, and that's it. And they just want you happy.
So it's neat because you didn't really have to worry about what he was going to think.
(34:30):
No, I didn't. And one of the things, you know, it's minor, but it was huge to me and it was
huge to Landon is I got to go to his school when he was in elementary year after year
and Landon would be like, yeah, my dad's going to come. He's going to put on his fire gear.
They're going to bring the fire engine. And you know, I could, I can still see the smile
(34:53):
on his face when I got to go to his, you know, several of his classrooms and I just, you
know, that meant the world to me. So it was awesome.
You were the hero.
This is a real question, Jeff. How many times did you get hit on by the teachers?
Never.
Shit, I doubt it.
He wouldn't have known.
Well, none of us would.
Let me just tell you. Goodness.
(35:15):
A lot of times I'm so oblivious to that stuff. I have my mind somewhere else and I wouldn't
even know.
Well, what other things do you think people should know if they are thinking about a huge,
huge career change? What are some things they need to consider, not just financially?
(35:37):
Well, I think you, you're going to have to, I think you need to first of all do some soul
searching. What, you know, who are you as a human being? What is it you want out of your
life? You know, what if you were, I've heard some people say this, but if you were to plan
(35:59):
your own funeral, what would you want them to say?
And so I'm sitting there thinking, oh, yeah, Jeff spent 30 years and he was a great accountant.
Or, you know, Jeff spent, you know, 15 years as a firefighter. Yeah. I can tell you which
(36:20):
one I would pick, but, you know, in the end, I didn't really do it for, you know, I didn't
do it for anybody else. I did it for me. But that's, that's, that's my point. You need
to first figure out who you are, what you like, what you don't like, and then figure
out something that fits for you. It fits your skills, fits your, your likes, your dislikes.
(36:41):
And then obviously it's got to fit in with your family. So I think it's just a stage
or excuse me, a one step process, one step after the other. And you figure out what works
for you. Some changes are just, you know, this change wouldn't have worked at other
points in my life, but it worked, you know, at that time. So I think, you know, you have
(37:05):
to look at, search your own heart and soul, what it is you want to do, get the buy-in
from your family, and then figure out, you know, what you can do. You're going to have
to make a budget long-term and figure out how you can, you know, pay for this or survive.
But like I said, you know, I didn't just have the fire department income. I had rental property.
(37:26):
I had a business on the side. So it did help those things. So if you can find other ways
to make up the shortfall, then, you know, you can make things work.
Yeah. I mean, life is all about, you know, that personal fulfillment. It really is.
If you don't feel like you're fulfilling a need, especially one that you've got, it's
(37:49):
just it. You have to change your career. Yeah. You really do. Okay. I've got a very deep
question now. Don't roll your eyes, Connie, because you know it's true. Okay. Okay. You've
got a son. So I know, and I know a little bit about, you know, the career path that
he's taking and everything. And I don't want everybody beating me up saying that I'm against
(38:12):
college because I'm not. I went to college later in life. But Jeff, what would you, if
a parent wanted to help their son or daughter to figure out what career path they went down,
what could they do to help? Because, I mean, like with you, you went down a career path
that it sounds like even everybody from the outside said, I don't know why you went down
(38:33):
that direction. We didn't think that was even going to be a fit for you.
So I think you have to begin. We all tend to think we want security. We want financial
security for our kids. And, you know, as a father, I can't fault that at all. You know,
I would love for my son to have plenty of money. But I think I've taken a different
(38:56):
approach with my son as far as I didn't tell him what I thought he needed to do. I tried
to let him figure it out on his own and guide him. College was not the right path for my
son. College was the path that I took. I'm not saying either one is better or worse,
(39:19):
but different paths fit different people. You have to ask yourself, what am I going
to be doing day in, day out? And I really wish I would have thought more about that.
I would have realized, well, yeah, you're probably going to be in an office behind a
computer all day. So I would encourage people to think about what it is, their strengths,
(39:43):
their weaknesses, what their likes and their dislikes, and they really need to incorporate
that into their career path because we spend more time at our jobs than we do our own family.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you got to do something that at least makes sense.
Do you think that job shadowing, if you would have job shadowed somebody for a few days as a
(40:06):
CPA, do you think that would have changed your mind? Absolutely. I'd be doing something
different today. I probably would have gotten a computer major or excuse me, a minor or maybe
even a double major because I thought about going into computer or information systems at the time,
but I wanted to be out of college. I was so burnt out and I just wanted to be done with school.
(40:30):
So I just jumped into that job. Whereas if I would have did an internship or taken some time,
I would have realized, yeah, I probably need to go a different route.
I think that's why you see so many people that end up with double majors.
Yep. And they spend so much money to get to that point. And if that's the right path for you,
(40:53):
then great. But I do think that it's an expensive way to try and figure out what you want to do.
And I don't want to at all talk bad about the college dream or the college
education, if you will. It works for some people. If you want to be a doctor, if you want to be a
(41:15):
lawyer, if you want to be a CPA, those are the ways to go. And that's the path to get there.
But consider trade schools. Consider other options besides taking on this considerable amount of debt,
getting a college education because those, what are they called? The counselors or people at school
(41:39):
that forget that. Yeah, they're counselors.
The counselors, but they're not going to say, oh, well, think about what career you go and what job
you can get when you want to live. It's like they don't link the dots. But sit there and think about
what is it, where do you want to live? What do you want to do? And consider the trades because
(42:01):
you can get out of school in years less time, be thousands of dollars, if not tens of thousands
of dollars in less debt and have a great, even some of the trades, you can get six figure
incomes. So the world is changing. You don't have to have the college education. But if that's
(42:21):
what you want, great, go for it. The other thing is, as I've watched Jeff's son, and as I've watched
Jeff, I'll say guide, that's not really what's happening. But Jeff is not married to the idea of
what Landon is going to do. And I think so many parents, like he said, they get really stuck on
(42:46):
the security aspect for their children. And they'll be like, oh, no, you have to go to college. That's
the most secure way. That's the most, this is that their ego really gets involved rather than, oh,
you're going to become a plumber and truly be secure. There are so many people who, you know,
think college is the only way to do it. And I would say after watching Jeff with Landon,
(43:09):
just don't be like that. Like, there's many ways to be secure. So, you know, college is not the
only way like he was saying. And if it fits your child better, hallelujah, let them go do it and
be happier. And I can definitely speak to having a college degree does not make you more secure
(43:31):
in the job today. So, first of all, I ended up, I went all the way through school. My employer
paid for all of it. So, I did get the college degree, I do understand the benefits of it. And
the benefits really are it gets your foot in the door a little bit easier. It really does. It doesn't
mean that you can do the job any better. But in today's world, especially in the tech world,
(43:54):
like where I'm at, look at Amazon, look at Facebook and look at a few of the other companies out
there that got rid of, you know, between 10,000 and 50,000 employees. I can almost promise you
95% of those were college graduates. Any other thoughts, Jeff, on switching careers?
I would just encourage people to don't rule out a career change, no matter what
(44:26):
point in your career you are. It might work, it might not. But don't be so scared to make a change
just because you have, say, you know, I had over 10 years invested in the accounting world.
And that could have been enough to say, oh, no, I can't do this. I, you know, I've already got
(44:49):
10 years of work and four years of college invested in this. I can't change. Well,
had I not made the change that I would be, I can guarantee you, I would not be nearly as happy
as I am today. I would not enjoy, you know, what it is that I do. Had I not made that switch. So,
you know, don't let time invested in a prior career or education path keep you from searching for
(45:20):
a better fit. I agree with that 100%. Got it. Well, thank you for sharing your story. And
I'm so glad that you were brave enough to make that change because I think you are just a happier
person for it based on what I've been told. All right. Well, thank you so much, Jeff. I do appreciate
(45:41):
this. And you know, for me, it was such an interesting story because that huge change like
that, I've not done that. I've kept in the same career path, just changed jobs. And I've often
wondered, you know, what it would look like to do something like this. So getting your view on this,
not only did it help me a lot, but I think it'll help parents understand their kids, if their kids
(46:07):
decide that college isn't the right career, or, you know, if they decide to change jobs after
getting out of college, that it's going to be okay. And I think this is something that's really
important to get out to everybody. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. And I think it'll also help adults
hopefully not be so fearful of making a change if they're miserable. Absolutely. All right.
(46:33):
Well, thank you so much. Yes. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you both.
Okay. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Our Life Beyond. We really hope that
you found our discussion insightful and inspiring or at least brought us a smile to your day. If
you did enjoy this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast on your favorite
platform and leave us a review. For more information, resources or show notes, visit our
(46:58):
website at ourlifebeyond.com. You can also follow us on social media, search for us on Facebook at
Our Life Beyond. We would love to hear from you, our listeners, so feel free to reach out with
your questions, comments or suggestions through our Contact Us page at ourlifebeyond.com or on
social media. And once again, thank you for joining us on this journey. Till next time, remember,
(47:23):
Life Beyond, any challenge is possible and we're here to navigate it with you. Stay strong, stay
positive and keep moving forward.
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