November 13, 2023 • 52 mins
Morning Tangled Minds! This would be a great time to grab a cup of your favorite coffee before turning on this week’s episode where we discuss nothing other than that delicious, intoxicating, drug in liquid form. Join Harry and me as we talk about what we drink, what we look for in a coffee shop, and the cultural implications of coffee. Hope you enjoy!
And please, don’t forget to donate to Harry’s marathon. You can donate here: https://www.givengain.com/project/harry-weidner-raising-funds-for-boston-medical-center. Any amount helps
Email us at ourtangledminds@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Harry Weidner (00:04):
All righty, welcome back to our tangled
minds. I'm Harry Weidner.
Jack Weidner (00:10):
Welcome to up come on. Oh, do we what the fuck you
fucked it up?
Harry Weidner (00:17):
Yeah I did. RM jam Harry Weidner. Yeah, it's
fine.
Jack Weidner (00:22):
I'm Jack Weidner.
Harry Weidner (00:24):
And we're back, and we're back. We're back with
episode 18. We got a doozy foryou today. I'm not sure if it's
actually going to be a doozy butstick around and find out.
Jack Weidner (00:36):
I don't think so.
Harry Weidner (00:37):
I am going to say start this because I desperately
need more fundraising money forthe Boston Marathon. I have
exciting news. i Wow.
Unknown (00:47):
Yeah, Shameless, Shameless,
Harry Weidner (00:49):
totally. This is absolutely completely shameless.
I am running the Boston Marathonwith Boston Medical Center. And
Boston Medical Center is thehospital associated with Boston
University, which I go to forgrad school, I'm getting my
master's in public health care.
It's a great cause they reallychampion health equity for all,
something I'm really incrediblypassionate about. And so to be
(01:12):
able to run the Boston Marathonwith them next April is an
incredible opportunity for me.
I'm incredibly excited about it.
But I need donations. So jacket,
Jack Weidner (01:26):
you need to raise an incredible amount of money to
experience it incredible. Did Isay incredible, incredible
amount of fun? You saidincredible, incredible.
Harry Weidner (01:36):
All right, well, it's a great opportunity. And I
need to fundraise for it. SoJack, and I will include my
donation link in the podcastdescription this week. And I
would really appreciate yoursupport, if you can offer it.
And that's my shameless plug.
Everyone. So what's new withyou?
Jack Weidner (02:01):
I spent my morning thinking about why I find AI to
be interesting. And I think it'sbecause and this isn't this
episode. But I do want to talkabout this at some point. I
don't think we've defined whatit means to be human. Like it's
one of those things where it'slike, obscene obscenity word
(02:25):
like you know it when you seeit, but you can't define it. And
I think in the coming world ofAI, our understanding of what it
means to be a human being, isgoing to become more and more
important. And I'm curious tosee where that's gonna go.
Harry Weidner (02:45):
But what does that okay, I'm going to ask you
a question, what does thatchange about anything? Other
than just changing a definition?
Jack Weidner (02:57):
No, I don't think we have a definition. I think it
dramatically changes how wetreat other people, how we
understand ourselves and ourplace in the universe. You know,
like, I think we often thinkabout ourselves as logical
beings, we've created somethingthat is more logical has access
to more information. And, youknow, do we then become more
(03:21):
part of the natural world? Oh,so if we become more part of the
natural world? Where does thatchange? Like, we're actively
destroying the natural world?
You know, like, do we thenchange our relationship with
nature? Or we focus in onemotions, you know, like, oh,
well, we can emote? You know,that's what people say, is makes
us different than AI. So wechange the different, you know,
we center ourselves around ouremotion. How does that change?
(03:44):
You know, do we lead with moreempathy? How does that change
our economy? You know, if youlead with emotion, does
capitalism make the most sense,just making the most sense even
mean anything anymore? I feellike this is an opportunity to
really look at ourselves, figureout what we want to be, and not
(04:05):
just take things as they are.
I'm not trying to be like, I'mnot trying to idealize this. I
understand it's changing enoughedition, but I do think it
should change the way weinteract with the world. For
example, let's say like, sharksare back on Cape Cod. We haven't
(04:26):
really had to deal with a largeshark shark population in our
lives because they were killedby many people before us, right?
We are the Alpha predator, blah,blah, blah, we can go kill
sharks. Okay, so then if we likeput ourselves back in the
mindset of being part of nature,does that then make us have to
(04:49):
deal with the repercussions ofhaving a healthy ecosystem in
Cape Cod and does that mean thatI can't swim without either the
threat of sharks or I could justcan't swim in the ocean like I
You stir. Is that now part ofbeing human?
Harry Weidner (05:05):
I think it's always been part of being human.
Jack Weidner (05:08):
No, it's not. The most part of being human is
saying I'm gonna go kill a sharkbecause it annoys me.
Harry Weidner (05:17):
I don't want to agree with that at all. I think
you're offering two differentperspectives. I think you're
offering two differentperspectives on what it means to
be human. And that's verypersonal to each individual.
Jack Weidner (05:29):
No, no, no, this is I'm not taking anything away
from the conservationists thathave worked to protect sharks.
I'm just saying, by and largehumanity as a whole, though, How
about how about we say theWestern world goes out and says,
I don't like that mountain? I'mgoing to clear it. I don't like
(05:53):
the shark here. I'm going tokill it.
Harry Weidner (05:59):
Okay, but I think you're, you're getting an inch
and taking a mile. With that.
Really? Yeah. i Well,
Jack Weidner (06:07):
how what would you say humanity's relationship with
nature is?
Harry Weidner (06:13):
I think it has changed over time. And I think
it will continue to change. ButI don't think us using AI to
redefine what Being human means.
Gets us to where you're takingit.
Jack Weidner (06:30):
I think I'm not saying it gets us there
tomorrow.
Harry Weidner (06:36):
Yeah, I don't know. I struggled to follow
that. Your argument there?
Jack Weidner (06:43):
Were no, like, we'd no longer be the smartest
thing on earth, I would hope No,I'm not. I just think that like,
I hope it gives us a chance tokind of reassess where humanity
is in the
Harry Weidner (06:54):
war. That's happened countless times
throughout history, right? At
Jack Weidner (06:59):
the aid like during times of incredible
technological revolutions. Whywould this be any different?
Harry Weidner (07:11):
I don't think it's different. But I don't I
don't see.
The fact.
I don't see it changing thetrajectory of human nature.
Jack Weidner (07:30):
I'm saying I hope it does. Because it should.
Yeah, we've set ourselves up forfailure. We don't know what else
for failure. I mean, like, Idon't know what you want me to
say you want me to sit? Like I'mjust saying that. I hope it
allows us to do that. Because Ithink it's given us an
(07:50):
opportunity to really reflect onwhat it means to be human.
Harry Weidner (07:55):
Okay, I'll give it that's all.
Jack Weidner (08:00):
I mean, I don't like God. Like, if you are like,
if you're so optimistic aboutthe world, why aren't we doing
diddly squat about climatechange? Like, it's a fucking
problem? Yeah, it's
Harry Weidner (08:15):
a mess. It's a mess. I think about climate
change a lot. I was just talkingto my professor about climate
change. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (08:22):
So like, we should do something about it. Like who
the fuck is like, I know peopleare doing things about it. But
nothing's being done about it.
Right. Because and I hope youknow. Because what, because not
profitable,
Harry Weidner (08:35):
right? It's not profit. Well, it's not sexy.
Easy. No. Yeah,
Jack Weidner (08:41):
it's not easy.
It's not fun. So I hope, I hopeas a I probably might shake up
what it means to like, be humanon this earth. Because, you
know, we're no longer we mightnot be the most logical. You
know, most like infirm. Like wemight not have the most
(09:03):
information anymore. We're gonnahave to rethink what it means to
be human. And that might allowus to open up some doors for
positive
Harry Weidner (09:11):
Yeah, that's so mystic part of my brain.
Jack Weidner (09:15):
Sure, we're all gonna die and probably no one's
going to do anything about it.
And Elon Musk is gonna fuckingput himself on Mars. I don't
know. Yeah, but like, I'd liketo hope.
Harry Weidner (09:27):
Right, I'll give you your hope. I'll give you
your hope. Let me hope. But mycoffee finished. That's good.
Jack Weidner (09:38):
Yeah, during my rant Yeah.
Harry Weidner (09:40):
What? Oh, rant.
Wow, give me a strong I've justbeen wrong opener.
Jack Weidner (09:46):
I read something by Pope Francis. And I was just,
you know, I've been thinkingabout it a lot today about it.
Well, you know, the pope didn'tsay anything about this. He was
just saying like, in times ofcrisis, so I was reading it his
book, I think it's called a pathto freedom of path forward. It's
a short, short book. And he'sjust like talking. And he's
(10:12):
saying, you know, crises aretimes to reevaluate, and he
wrote it during very earlyCOVID. And, you know, I was,
it's kind of sad to look backand, and be like, you know,
crisis is a great time to, like,come together as a society, you
know, like, we can reallyreanalyze our views and rethink
(10:35):
about how we look at the worldin a crisis allows us to do
that, and I hope we do. And thenyou're sitting here in 2023, and
you're like, oh, fuck, we didn'tdo
Harry Weidner (10:42):
we actually?
Opposite? But like, right,exactly.
Jack Weidner (10:46):
So. So I hope as like, but he's like talking
about, you know, in a Catholicway, but like, it's he's still
talking about, you know, we area people. He's talking about
what it means to be human. And Ihope, you know, AI, is able to
maybe offer us that kind ofmaybe that shakes up enough,
(11:10):
because it doesn't shake up ourdaily lives, like people I think
could go up to your daily life.
But I think AI shakes up ourperception of ourselves. Okay, I
think it shakes up our identity.
I think, even if it's notcurrently doing that, I think
the thought of AI shakes upsomething more fundamental than
(11:30):
even COVID.
Harry Weidner (11:31):
I think, Jack, that you're coming at that from
an intellectual perspective. AndI appreciate that. I appreciate
that as much as the next guy.
But what I truly think AI isgoing to do is fuel the fire for
productivity, and futureprogress. And of people or 99.9%
(11:56):
of people will not rethink aboutthe meaning of humanity. Because
AI exists. That's, that's,that's just what's going to
happen. And so Are ya know,right. And I can follow your
argument, but I don't think it'sgoing to change humanity.
(12:19):
Similar to how Pope Francissaid, we're in a time of crisis,
we should come together. And wedid exactly, yeah, do so.
Jack Weidner (12:30):
And you were, I mean, you're preaching to the
choir. I am. I am a pessimist ona good day. Okay. I just, I just
hope, I hope to God, whateverGod there is. Even if there
isn't a God, I hope thatsomething changes.
Harry Weidner (12:53):
Yeah, me too.
Jack Weidner (12:54):
Because this just a good. This dog just ain't
gonna hunt. No, we're
Harry Weidner (12:59):
continuing on a very unsustainable path, but a
lot of public healthinitiatives. leverage the fact
that humans have more in commonthan we might initially,
superficially said.
That is, that's intellectual. Ofcourse, that's basic. And why do
you mean cuz Why do you think alot of public health initiatives
(13:21):
haven't worked? It's like,that's why we need to,
Jack Weidner (13:30):
you know, but if we like, ah, yeah, I know. I
know. Yep. No, we don't have totalk about this anymore.
Listeners, as you can tell, Ihad a rough morning of thoughts
that panned nowhere. I arrivedat a hopeful place, right. I
mustered up all the hope thatwas in my body. I came here to
(13:53):
talk to my brother. And he shotit with a double barrel shotgun,
and then threw it on the side ofthe road to die and rot in the
gutter. So there's no more No,no. Anyways,
Harry Weidner (14:04):
I just think, let's talk about I had a great
morning. I'll talk about mymorning. I woke up early. Yeah.
I went to bed at 8 (14:11):
30pm. Last night, it was great. And I woke
up and and went for a run aquick little, little three mile
run just to shake the legs outbefore the race on Sunday. I've
run the half marathon on Sunday.
This will come out after that,but that's fine. And then I had
to do a, I don't know mentalflexibility exam for a job that
(14:35):
I applied to, which was fun. Andthen I worked on some of my
paper and now I'm drinking a cupof coffee with my brother.
Pretty Good morning. I did notthink about AI. Humanity because
well,
Jack Weidner (14:50):
I read the book last night. I was up till
midnight reading. I
Harry Weidner (14:55):
was asleep for three and a half hours at that
point.
Pretty sweet.
Jack Weidner (15:00):
We live different lives.
Harry Weidner (15:01):
All right? Well, I had the idea Jack and I were
talking about what we're goingto do this week. And I don't
know how I came up with this.
But we were thinking we needsome time to talk about. So. So
I kind of just wanted to talkabout coffee. And Jack has an
interesting history with coffee.
I have an interesting historywith coffee. And I think coffee
(15:24):
itself has an interestinghistory with people. So
Jack Weidner (15:30):
I'm not qualified to talk about that history. I
don't I didn't look into it atall. This is all going to be
like off. Yeah. And
Harry Weidner (15:36):
what Neither did I really, I just the more I
think about it, the more I thinkcoffee plays a super important
role in society today.
Jack Weidner (15:46):
Yeah, I think I was gonna like when you said,
that's an I have an intellectualapproach. I was gonna make a
joke and be like, Well, I amdrinking coffee. So I think
yeah, there's a lot. Yeah,
Harry Weidner (15:57):
there is. So I don't know. Let's talk about
your history with. Okay, so
Jack Weidner (16:02):
with you? Yeah.
Harry Weidner (16:03):
I've always been a coffee drinker. I've, because
our grandfather drank coffee.
And I decided that that isexactly who I'm going to become.
I started drinking coffee at areally young age. Because he
would make it and I would justbe like, Oh, coffee, fun. And
then I stopped drinking coffeefor a long time. Couple years. I
think I started drinking coffee,again, senior ish year of high
(16:27):
school, when I I don't know whyI did. But I did. I started
drinking coffee again. And then,as I've always said, if
something's worth doing, it'sworth overdoing. And so I
immediately became justabsolutely obsessed with coffee.
I had to know everything aboutit. I had to know about, you
(16:47):
know, growth origins and the howthe altitude affected coffee,
and how you grind your coffeeaffects the taste of your
coffee, I had to learn aboutdifferent brewing methods. And I
kind of got nuts with it. Iended up spending too much money
on a nice coffee grinder. Ibought some good coffee
(17:07):
equipment where I could do thepour over. I also bought a
couple of different immersionbrewers so that I could brew
immersion coffee, I experimentedwith like filtering it, and I
would always buy coffee beanslocally, like locally roasted
coffee beans. That's something Iam really passionate about. And
then, I don't know a coupleyears ago, I just stopped
(17:30):
drinking coffee again, because Igot sick of it. You know, it was
like to spend 10 minutes makingmy morning coffee drove me
crazy. So I stopped drinking it.
And then I just started drinkinglike, I don't know, run of the
mill coffee again, which wasfine. And then COVID happened.
(17:55):
And I would do a lot of my workfor school at a coffee shop
called Rothrock coffee in StateCollege. I would go every
Thursday and Friday morning, getmyself a nice cup of coffee and
sit there for a couple hours andget some work done, which was
really awesome. And that sort ofre sparked my relationship with
coffee. And then I moved toBoston and I just didn't have
(18:18):
time or energy to find a cafewith locally roasted beans. I'm
sure it exists. But I startedembossed Yeah, no definitely
exist. So my apartment buildingwe also
Jack Weidner (18:34):
someone was telling me about this great.
Well, I do I want it to someonetell me about this great place
in Boston. What was it called?
Now start with Dunkin. Dunkin,bagels, Dunkin,
Harry Weidner (18:53):
it's just, it's just Dunkin. Now, yes, people
are obsessed with Dunkin coffeehere. They're everywhere. I
don't get it. But that'ssomething I actually wanted to
talk about today, like antiStarbucks, anti Dunkin because
of ethical reasons. But yeah, myapartment building has a coffee
(19:15):
maker in the lobby. And I justtake the elevator down and hit a
cup of coffee and it gives melike, a not bad cup of coffee.
It doesn't taste like dirty sockwater. It tastes like coffee.
But it's not like it's not likethe coffee that I was drinking
when I was brewing it for sevenminutes by myself in the
morning. You know, it's notlight and fruity, like specialty
(19:37):
coffee should be. And so that'smy history with coffee.
Jack Weidner (19:41):
So this is and I have a question. Why did you
never Oh, go ahead. I was justwondering why you never got into
espresso. I feel like a lot ofpeople that get in the coffee
are like oh, the only good cupof coffee is espresso. So they
like get into espresso but younever ever went down. If
anything's
Harry Weidner (19:57):
worth doing it's worth overdoing. And so If I
were to get into espresso,that's an incredibly time
consuming and expensive hobby.
So you drew a line, I drew aline and I couldn't, I couldn't
go over it. Because the secondthat I started getting into
espresso, I would spend way toomuch time and money on it. You
need a really nice grinder to doit right. And you need really
(20:21):
expensive machines to do it.
Right. And I just, I, I knewthat I couldn't do that.
Jack Weidner (20:30):
I've been curious about this for years. That's no,
Harry Weidner (20:33):
because like, what am I going to do spend $500
on an espresso machine and thenget a really nice grinder so
that I can get fine espressogrinds, like, because there's a
very technical definition ofespresso. And it's not. It's not
espresso, unless it meets thatdefinition. And so you're
drinking your mocha pot coffeeright now, which year, you might
(20:56):
call espresso, but it's not big.
I call it okay. Okay, thatworks. But some people would
call it espresso. And it's justnot because you're not reaching
nine bars of pressure and thatlittle machine, and the
extractions different. Theratios are different. And
frankly, the grind setting isdifferent. For
Jack Weidner (21:16):
it has to be you can't use espresso in this. You
can't use them espresso grind.
Right.
Harry Weidner (21:20):
And so that's why I didn't get into it because I
would go too far into it. So Istopped myself. Long story
short. Yeah, are you your turn
Jack Weidner (21:39):
I hated coffee. My whole life. I thought it was
gross. Our grandfather, as Harryalluded to, we both really
idolized our grandfather. So Iwanted to like coffee. He drank
a shitty black cup. It wasterrible every morning. And I
let Harry just did it. LikeHarry was just like, Yeah, I'll
(22:02):
do that. Um, I did not. I tried,I guess I don't know if that
speaks like I loved him as muchas you I just didn't love him, I
guess enough to like, sufferthrough. So I got really into T
because T was something thatlooked Black and Color tasted
(22:23):
vulgar enough that I could feelmanly, but not disgusting enough
that I couldn't drink it. So Igot really into just like
drinking black tea and I drinkit black like people would be
like, I'd order tea out andthey'd be like, do you want
cream and sugar? And I'm like,no, because I'm tough. I drink
tea. And that pretty much justcontinued. I loved all kinds of
(22:47):
tea. I didn't get to.
Harry Weidner (22:50):
I wouldn't say I wouldn't say we got super into
tea. You got into like, justbags of tea with different kinds
of tea. Like I
Jack Weidner (22:57):
and I drink tea all the time. No. Yeah, you got
into coffee and you can Oh, and
Harry Weidner (23:01):
but I did get into tea. That's the issue leave
you that's the problem. Talkabout your tea. Tell
Jack Weidner (23:08):
me. Tell me about your Oh,
Harry Weidner (23:09):
I know. Well, I feel bad for for interrupting
your story, man.
Jack Weidner (23:13):
I love No, I love it. Like yeah, when did you get
it now? No good. You keepbecause I remember you came
home. Well, it was funny becauselike, I was a tea guy. And you
came home from college one daywith all this tea stuff. I'm
like, Whoa, who the fuck is thisguy on my tea? Yeah. And then
he's like, like, correct mewhile I was making tea. I'm
(23:34):
like, Dude, I'm just, I'm justmaking the tea.
Harry Weidner (23:38):
Okay, I'll talk about so we're gonna talk about
tea for a second. Yeah. And thenwe'll go back into you like
transitioning into likingcoffee. I, oh, man. It was
freshman year. And I wasthinking a lot about like, How
can I sustainably study for avery long time and there was a
lot of good research on greentea. And so I started drinking
(23:59):
green tea. And that is where Igot the tea bog. And so I
flirted with tea for a littlebit into like, understanding
where the different tea leavesare grown, how they're roasted,
and different antioxidants inthe tea and vitamins and
minerals within the tea and youhave to brew different teas at
different temperatures and steepthem for different amounts of
(24:20):
time. And and I only did thatfor a little bit, but it was
probably a year and a half of mereally liking tea.
Jack Weidner (24:32):
And to show how much you did teach me about tea,
I think herbal you like a good175 And that works for most
teas, but there are some blackteas that do better at like a to
12 because they're a littledarker Is that Yeah,
Harry Weidner (24:47):
so I really don't know I don't remember the exact
temperatures but you roast blacktea or you brew black tea at a
higher temperature than you brewgreen tea. Because you don't
want to write in green don'twant to ruin those There's
antioxidants and all that goodstuff,
Jack Weidner (25:03):
right? Yeah, the Jasmine that I have requires
175. That's an herbal tea. So Iboil water and let it's no,
Jasmine's green.
Harry Weidner (25:12):
I think I have no idea.
Jack Weidner (25:16):
Let's see. Now look it up because I don't want
to sound dumb. I think
Harry Weidner (25:21):
Jasmine is green, black or white tea, Jasmine.
Okay. All right. Just so that weget this right, jasmine blossoms
are a flower. So Jasmine aloneis a is an herbal tea if you
just have a jasmine tea, but youcan mix it with black, green or
white tea. And then you have mytea is okay, so you have a green
(25:43):
jasmine tea. I have a green. Soit's a green tea with hints of
Jasmine.
Jack Weidner (25:49):
Yes, we're learning today. And that's
that's really like this is likean educational program now.
Harry Weidner (25:56):
Um,
Jack Weidner (25:56):
yeah. So what I do, unlike you is I boil water
in my little tea kettle, andthen I let it sit until I feel
like it's reached 175. And thenI pour it and I drink it.
Harry Weidner (26:11):
See, I could I couldn't see I couldn't do that
I need to have because do youthink though? I don't know. I
Oh, I need the temperature to beexactly what the temperature has
to be. You know, that's, that'swhat I do. People
Jack Weidner (26:25):
are catching on. I think people are catching on the
we have addictive personalitiesjust about wildly different.
Yes. But I think yourneuroticism is coming out right
now in ways that I don't thinkthe viewers have gotten a taste
of yet.
Harry Weidner (26:40):
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm incredibly neurotic. Yeah.
Because I
Jack Weidner (26:47):
think they look at me and they're like, Oh, you're
so existential. You'repsychotic. But now they're gonna
look at you. And thank God hewould be held.
Harry Weidner (26:56):
I'm sure I wouldn't be, I'm sure. Imagine
living in my own head.
Jack Weidner (27:03):
Dude, imagine, I don't think I don't think anyone
wants to live in each of ourheads. Each of our respective
heads, I think is an individual.
Anyways, so I was just into tea.
I had a lot of just tea all thetime. Throughout college and I
kept late hours, you know, Iwould study, my college
(27:27):
schedule, I think was literallyselect. Let's start my day at
five o'clock. I'd finish classin the afternoon. And then I'd
study I'd get dinner at somepoint, I'd get back to my dorm
if I wasn't on duty. I'd take anap from nine to 11. And then I
would just write from 11 to fourin the morning, whole time and
(27:51):
drinking black tea. Just blackgreen tea, whatever caffeine
sometimes I switch it upsometimes a little herbal. But
yeah, no never did coffeethroughout college. until my
junior year, I took Italian. AndI was like I had to go meet
(28:12):
these Italian Foreign exchangestudents to tutor me for extra
credit. So I go and I just speakItalian with them. And they
would just go to the coffee shopon campus and get espresso. So I
would just go with them. Andfinally one guy, his name was
Francesco. I love them so much.
But he had said you do you wantespresso? I'd say No, I'm okay.
I don't like coffee. He said no,no, you don't like shitty
(28:34):
coffee. This is espresso waslike fuck. Alright, so I did a
shot. And it wasn't it. It wasthe least offensive cup of
coffee I've ever had. So I waslike, okay, maybe I can do shots
of espresso. And from that pointon, I think I just kind of I was
like, I was like, Oh, I canstomach this. And then the more
(28:58):
I did it, the more I started tolike it. So like I would do
cappuccinos and like veryoccasionally throughout college
and then when I graduated, I waslike, oh, I'll just like I would
go to the cafe. Like I'd go to acafe with my girlfriend and I
get you know, double shot ofespresso if it was past like 10
or something or a drink likecappuccino and I just really
started to like it. And I boughta mocha pot so I can make it at
(29:22):
home and save some money.
Because I didn't want to spend$500 on an espresso machine and
I have a very casualrelationship with coffee but I
do like espresso just likeHarry's described what I like I
guess is like I it's thicker. Isthat right? And darker.
Harry Weidner (29:45):
I don't know what kind of like, I guess you like,
like a darker roast. Sure.
Jack Weidner (29:49):
I use I do like a French Roast like chopped
espresso roast. I like anamericano very occasionally if
I'm going to be up for a longtime and it's late at night. I I
cannot I still don't like dripcoffee because to me it's like,
watered down and it's just toolong. Like it's like When will
this end? So that's kind ofwhere I'm at. Like, I feel very
(30:12):
pretentious when I say like, Ijust kind of like want a shot of
espresso like, I don't want awhole cup of coffee. That's a
big commitment for me. Andthat's my relationship. Did
Harry Weidner (30:20):
I ever make you like a good proper cup of
coffee? I feel like I have.
Jack Weidner (30:25):
I think you did. I think I drank some of it. I
don't know.
Harry Weidner (30:30):
Because I think a lot of people don't understand
what specialty coffee is andtastes like. And that sounds so
pretentious of me. But like what
Jack Weidner (30:39):
you here's, let's let's get into the culture.
Yeah. A little Well, no. Okay,you you tell me about like what
a good cup of coffee should beand then we can get into the
culture. You betcha. I'mpretentious. Specialty Coffee
Harry Weidner (30:50):
is generally a lighter roast. So that you can
taste all of the nuance in thebeans. And so it's much like
wine, where the altitude and thesoil that the coffee is grown in
gives the beans different, adifferent flavor profile. And
(31:11):
real so I enjoy Yeah, no, it'stotally like wine. So I enjoyed
like, don't
Jack Weidner (31:17):
get in the wine.
Man, I
Harry Weidner (31:19):
yeah, I can't you. I never Yeah. I enjoyed. I
enjoyed, you know, tastingdifferent beans from around the
world. And Rothrock did a reallycool thing where they had a
relationship with the people whogrew the beans. So they would
have they would they would havethese informational pamphlets.
(31:40):
So you could really understandabout the roasting process, and
some coffees are fermented. AndI don't know, it was just a very
fun, interesting thing to do.
But I think most people don'tunderstand specialty coffee in
that light. Most people like amedium to darker roast because
they think that's all thatcoffee is. But typically
popular. Coffee has that flavor.
(32:05):
Because they're subpar beans.
The longer you roast a bean, themore you can mask. Bad flavors
that Yeah, yeah, so a darkerroast. Generally, I don't want
to say, you know, totally, but alot of the time has is an
inferior quality bean. Andthat's being roasted for a
(32:25):
longer time to mask some. Someoff flavors. Yeah. It's
interesting.
Jack Weidner (32:35):
Is it okay to like a dark roast? Yeah, absolutely.
I think I guess I guess Iwouldn't know. Like, I don't
know if I've had a light roast.
It's just
Harry Weidner (32:43):
like wine. Where it's nobody's pleased to judge
you, you I like you like whatyou like, and I'm not going to
yuck your yum. I enjoyedspecialty coffee. And that was
my, my jam. But if someone islike, I love a darker roast
(33:03):
coffee, I'm not gonna be like,that sucks. That's the grossest
thing ever, you know, everyone'sentitled to their own opinions.
And they like, yeah.
Jack Weidner (33:11):
Where do you get into? Like, what do you what's
your opinion on like, mixed? Idon't want to say mixed drinks.
But like, we've cappuccinos wehave lattes. macchiatos you
know, do you ever did you everget into I know you like a
cappuccino? Yeah,
Harry Weidner (33:23):
I love a cappuccino. And recently, I've
been drinking cappuccinos moreand more, because I'm so
incredibly vain that I don'twant to stain my teeth with
black coffee. So I adding addingsome milk to it, you know,
reduces the potential forstaining your teeth. You know,
you
Jack Weidner (33:38):
can do shots of espresso and literally just
shoot it back.
Harry Weidner (33:41):
I know. But yeah, I
Jack Weidner (33:42):
don't know. I don't know. The dentist told me
that. She said What kind ofcoffee do you drink? I said,
espresso. She said that's good.
Just shoot it back. Don't let ittouch your cheek. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (33:51):
Yeah, the acidity in the coffee mixed with the
pigments just doesn't bode wellfor having a white smile. So no,
where do I Where do I fall onopinions of like lattes and
cappuccinos. I love acappuccino. I don't love a
latte. It's too milky for me.
But you know that's again,that's my personal preference. I
(34:14):
don't like when places callsomething a cappuccino and it's
not a proper cappuccino. Youhave a story about this from
yesterday with your macchiato acappuccino. It's traditionally
two ounces of espresso, twoounces of steamed milk and then
two ounces of foam. So it's asix ounce drink. And oftentimes
people offer you like a smallmedium or large cappuccino,
(34:34):
which by definition is not acappuccino. Again, a really
annoying pretentious thing toknow. But yeah, I don't I don't
mind a good milky drink. Everynow and then.
Jack Weidner (34:50):
I love kimchi. I was just curious. I don't know.
Um, yeah. I I'm just so curious.
Like a lot of people have veryhard opinions on Coffee where I
see I see a lot of like, I thinkItalians don't order cappuccinos
past 10am But
Harry Weidner (35:09):
yeah, there's some there's some rule there's a
rule but it's like it'ssomething with their their
tummies.
Jack Weidner (35:16):
I think it Yeah, I think it's too it's that they're
too heavy. So I don't there'slike a part of me that had like,
read that and someone was reallymean about it on the internet.
So I got scared. I was like, Idon't want anyone to think that
I'm like, you know, weird. So Idon't order this past 10am Now,
(35:39):
or before six. So like, between10 and six. I don't order a
cappuccino and then I'll I'llget a cappuccino in the evening.
Yeah, I
Harry Weidner (35:46):
see I something that you said
Jack Weidner (35:48):
you're not an evening coffee. Oh, I'm an E,
I'm a big evening called
Harry Weidner (35:53):
No, I am not a caffeine like after 1pm kind of
guy. Because I do believe in thescience. That caffeine has a
half life of about six hours inthe body and different people
metabolize it at differentrates. But generally speaking,
the half life is about sixhours. And so try not to drink
(36:14):
caffeine before six hours, sixhours before you go to View go
if I go,
Jack Weidner (36:18):
if I go you have a healthy normal bed, I go to 8pm
If I go to bed at
Harry Weidner (36:21):
8pm Like fuck, you know. So you have
Jack Weidner (36:25):
a healthy, normal bedtime and you like your body
isn't a schedule, and I am amess. So I don't have a healthy
normal bedtime. So you know,I'll do a little sleep to
dinner. You
Harry Weidner (36:40):
would do that.
And that's crazy.
Jack Weidner (36:43):
I love it. It's about I love that. I just love
the taste. Yeah,
Harry Weidner (36:47):
if if the only way that I'll do that is if I'm
like going to a bar and I'mgonna have myself a long night.
Jack Weidner (36:54):
Man what doggies has like a coffee drink? And
Harry Weidner (36:59):
it's pretty good.
And
Jack Weidner (37:01):
it was so an I. I needed that when we went out
with your friends like no one'sbusiness. Yeah, I'm that was
like I was resurrected from thedead with a drink.
Harry Weidner (37:15):
Yeah.
Let's,let's transition you brought up
a bar and much like a bar. Ithink cafes. Yeah, coffee shops
hold a special place in ourculture. And the way we see it
today, I think coffee is reallyan incredible thing. Because
it's it's not only a drink, butit's something that people can
(37:40):
use to connect with each other.
Right? So a lot of times
Jack Weidner (37:47):
what I think food has that power more broadly. And
I'm like curious what how coffeeconnects people in a special
way.
Harry Weidner (37:55):
Think about how people will say, oh, let's just
grab a cup of coffee. You know,there's something about saying,
let's grab a cup of coffee. Youknow, it's like, it's a really
good way to catch up with peopleor it's a really good excuse to
say, let's catch up with people.
Without the commitment ofquickly.
Jack Weidner (38:14):
Yes, with food.
When you say let's get a cup ofcoffee, it can be a three hour
affair. It can be 30 minutes,
Harry Weidner (38:24):
but it doesn't like it doesn't. It's so
dependent on how theconversation is going. So what
are we having a good time? Arewe having a bad time? If we're
having a good time, let's stickaround and sip on our coffee. If
we're having a bad time. I gottaI gotta hit the road. You
Jack Weidner (38:39):
know, or like, I think a good Cafe is somewhere
where you can finish your cup ofcoffee and still sit and feel
welcome. Yeah, to like, youdon't feel like you have to get
out the door. As opposed to arestaurant. Yeah, where a
restaurant, you know, you mighthave you have a timeframe. I
think like a great coffee shopis somewhere where you can sit
(39:00):
for a long time or a brief time,like however long you want.
Yeah, and
Harry Weidner (39:05):
the dynamics of a coffee shop. I love. I love
people watching. I know that.
But I also love peoplecommunicating. But a coffee shop
or a coffee shop is a greatplace to like, watch interesting
people do interesting things.
Jack Weidner (39:23):
I sit with a book and a notebook. The quotes that
I have gotten from coffee shopsare just amazing. I don't know
if I have any on my phone. Butpeople will just say anything
like they're like they're not inpublic. Like they're being
listened to. Like I've listenedto people talk with their
friends about if they should geta divorce. And I'm like you're
(39:45):
in a public place. It is 10 inthe morning. And I love it like
I'm like where's the popcorn?
Harry Weidner (39:51):
Yeah.
I don't know it. I think theatmosphere of a coffee shop is a
really open and inviting placefor people to have those
comfortable conversations over acup of coffee. I think that it's
so something over a cup ofcoffee is so powerful.
Jack Weidner (40:11):
This is the most recent quote that I wrote down
on my phone. And it was all thatI heard because I believe, but
it was, it was just a womantalking with her friends. She
goes, it's like incestuous. AndI was just so curious. I was
like, What are
Unknown (40:28):
ya? Yeah. Fascinating.
So, guy, you go.
Jack Weidner (40:34):
No, no, go where you're gonna say,
Harry Weidner (40:36):
No, you go.
Jack Weidner (40:38):
I'm just, I'm curious. Because I think this is
I have a question. I feel likecoffee has such a place. Among.
I think like, we often thinklike, if you're, you know, you
can be pretentious about coffee,you can be pretentious about
wine. It's like this. Like, Ithink in some ways it's
(40:58):
elevated. If you're like doingit at a coffee shop, if you're
like overdoing it, if you takelike if you have like an
intellectual relationship withit. So like, I think like the
coffee shop crowd, like this,like idea of hipster. Like I
think it's very intellectual, Ithink is very tied to
literature. And the humanities,like the freedom of thought like
(41:20):
counterculture, you know, isvery, it's very hip. Right.
counterculture is mainstreamright now. And I think the
coffee shop has taken a reallyunique place in society where
you see a lot of that, like, Oh,you want to be bohemian? Let's
go to a coffee shop, and sitthere for you know, a long time
and get coffee and blah, blah,blah. I'm just curious. Is that
(41:42):
like your experience? Or is thatbecause with watch on TV?
Harry Weidner (41:46):
Well, yeah, coffee, coffee had a lot of
history in the enlightenment,actually. And this is what I
don't know. Yeah, coffee, hadsome history with the
enlightenment. And people woulddrink coffee as opposed to
alcohol because it would sharpentheir mind. And so I wanted to
talk about coffee too, because Ithink it plays an enormous
(42:07):
background role in so manyadvancements that have happened.
You know, it's like, there arepeople and intellectuals who
have been fueled by coffee forhundreds of years. And I think
that I think it plays a reallyimportant background role in in
(42:32):
what's going on and what peopleare thinking about. So I have a
had a professor, my mentor isone of the greatest people that
I know, he always has a cup ofcoffee, no matter what. And it's
just one of those things that Iassociate with him, and then I
associate with his thoughts. So,I mean, how many great books
(42:55):
have been written by people whohave been drinking coffee? You
know, into the wee hours of themorning? probably hundreds of
1000s.
Jack Weidner (43:05):
Yeah. And I'd be curious to see how many of them
are drinking coffee and how manyof them are alcoholics? And I'd
be curious to see what thedifference.
Harry Weidner (43:13):
Yeah, I don't know. I I don't know anything
about this beyond my, my ownexperience, but I think a lot of
good work has gotten done. Whenpeople are consuming coffee.
Jack Weidner (43:26):
Yeah, I think like, you know, like, the
idealized place to go to doschoolwork now is coffee. You're
working on something coffeeshop. John Green wrote The Fault
in Our Stars of Starbucks. Ithink it was a Starbucks. It was
a coffee shop. I know that. AndI'm just really interested in
(43:48):
its ties to so I didn't knowthat about the enlightenment.
Yeah, play the highest intoplay,
Harry Weidner (43:54):
it was played a pretty big role. And also, this
is going back to like the coffeeshop as an as a community
entity. I was at a coffee shoplast Friday with my friend and
we were getting some work done.
And I've always known this, butI just put like my finger on it.
Why coffee shops are soimportant for communities. It's
because they were advertisinglocal artists. You know what a
(44:17):
great there was local art allover the walls that you could
buy. And what a great place tobe able to showcase your art if
you're a budding artist on thewalls of a coffee shop that's
visited by people from thecommunity. And Milhouse does
this back in Johnstown. I mean,they not anymore. They used to.
Jack Weidner (44:42):
They used to do the art. They don't do the art,
but they
Harry Weidner (44:46):
thought of art.
They also hold like communityevents. Yes, they
Jack Weidner (44:51):
do, which there are like there's certainly a
center for the community.
Harry Weidner (44:56):
And I hadn't thought about it like that
before, but I think coffee shopsplay a role. really important
role in building a sense ofcommunity? In a neighborhood?
Jack Weidner (45:08):
Yeah. Interesting.
I don't know, I have this weirdrelationship with
countercultural ism nowadays,because it's become so
mainstream. It's like, everyonewants to be at a coffee shop
having this image during thisthing. And I do too. And I hate
that I do that. I want that Iwant to be a part of that. I
(45:29):
don't know why. And it's, it'sso annoyingly, like, it feels so
superficial, that I think likeany of that read, like substance
that was to it, like, you know,like going to a coffee shop
having a really, you know,quote, unquote, intellectual
conversation, whatever the fuckthat means. Yeah, I just is that
(45:50):
gone? Like, it hasn't just beenreplaced with like AI. Now I
need to go and be seen at acoffee shop to partake in that
image of what it means to bepart of a community or this that
the other thing? And I'm justcurious, like, what are your
thoughts on that?
Harry Weidner (46:08):
I think I think if we think about the history of
counterculture, it, it has beenvery dynamic over time. And so I
don't think that's an humannature is to go against a part
of human nature is to go againstwhat is mainstream? Yeah, yes.
(46:32):
For some people and to feel intofeel like you're doing your own
thing. And then, yeah, that hascaught up with and people go on
to do something else. You know,it's, it's just like how trends
change over time. And so I likethat your experience with a
coffee shop, is just becausewhat you have enjoyed, and do
(46:58):
enjoy. Modern Culture has caughtup to that. And you don't like
yeah,
Jack Weidner (47:06):
it's just like, I hate. And this goes into my
rant. I don't like, there's somuch like a feeling of like, I
get anxious going into coffeeshops nowadays. Because like,
there's like loud music, andthere's like a bunch of people
and everyone's standing there.
And it's like, I just want tosit. And like, I want people
there because I like like, justlike listening and stuff. But
(47:30):
like, it's just I always feellike I'm on display there. And I
feel like you know, like, I haveto like do this thing. And I
just, I don't want a call like Ijust want to go in and I want to
order a coffee and I wanted tobe right. And I just want to sit
and not like have to like, thinkabout my image at this place.
And that's all that I thinkabout. I think that's like my
(47:51):
anxiety, saying that but likeit. There's something
performative about it to me whenI go into a coffee shop
nowadays. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (48:03):
Yeah, I understand that. I appreciate
that.
Jack Weidner (48:07):
And I do the dance. Like I'm not saying I'm
better than the dance. Oh, no,no. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (48:11):
I mean, but I I feel like
you can find yourself a coffeeshop. That you don't have to
feel like that. You know, maybeyeah, the nature of where you
live. The sample size is limitedfor coffee shops that you can go
to.
Jack Weidner (48:31):
Yeah, like Cafe Reggio in New York City is
probably like I went in a fewweeks ago after seeing a talk.
And I sat down, someone came up,they asked me what I wanted. I
just said, you know, I ordered acappuccino. And I think I got a
quiche. And they were like,cool. Took my menu. They brought
(48:55):
it they left there were noniceties. Like we were polite,
but like we weren't like, Oh myGod, how are you? And he left me
alone. I finished. I was alonefor three hours. I pulled out a
book I read for three hours. Andthen eventually he came back
he's like, do you want to check?
I was like, Yeah, sure. And thenI left that was it.
(49:15):
It was great. Yeah, I
Harry Weidner (49:17):
mean, that's just an example of like finding a
place where you feelcomfortable. And yeah, that
meets what you're looking for. Ithink I think what might bother
you about it is that you goplaces just to watch other
(49:39):
people you know you go thereselflessly to watch and listen
to other people. And some otherpeople might be going there to
pretend to do what you're doing.
Jack Weidner (49:53):
I don't Yeah, I also don't like being this is
gonna sound so dumb. I don'tlike being perceived. I get very
selfish conscious. So then I getanxious. And like, I had to talk
to someone the other day and Ido when I get anxious, I do this
thing where I like run myfinger. That's pretty common,
but I do this where I like runmy fingers through each other.
So I like ask them for somethingand I went up and I was like
(50:13):
this. Oh, because I was anxiousthat I was like, I think like
fucking schmeeckle trying to askfor a bag that I like, I'm like,
worried of like, people saw thatas, like, such a terrible
experience. Yeah. Like, whycan't we just be cool? Like,
why? Like Bob Dylan? So cool. Ifeel like a Bob Dylan went to a
(50:36):
coffee shop in the 60s. He justbe chill, but do you know why
he's cool? Because
Harry Weidner (50:40):
he doesn't care.
Like he genuinely. Genuinelydoesn't care. That's so cool. I
know. It's so cool. Um, butlike, he's just gonna be Bob
Dylan. And he's gonna make themusic that he wants to make and
like, yeah, that's what's coolabout it. And we've talked about
this before, but he stoppedbeing Bob Dylan when people
expected him to be Bob Dylan,because he just wanted to do it.
Jack Weidner (51:03):
And then he changed Bob Dylan. Now he now he
does gospel music.
Harry Weidner (51:10):
Or should we wrap it wrap it up? This was good.
Jack Weidner (51:12):
I think so. This was good. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know if this isinteresting. I learned a lot
about cost,
Harry Weidner (51:17):
man. It's all up in my dome.
It's all it's all. It's all upthere somewhere.
Jack Weidner (51:24):
Well, thank you so much for sticking around. See
how this mess unravels? We'regonna put up don't forget to
donate to Harry so he can runthe Boston Marathon, please. We
should do. We should do a donatea THON, where we just live
stream a pod.
Harry Weidner (51:41):
Dude, I'm not kidding. I will do anything for
someone to donate some. Whatever
Jack Weidner (51:46):
you got, if you guys want. How about this? If
you guys want Harry to do Harryand I to do something to get him
donations, please email us atour tangled minds@gmail.com and
we will do whatever you suggestwithin reason. Thank you so
much. And I hope you guys have agreat rest of your week because
(52:06):
this comes out on Monday. Hopeyour Monday.
Harry Weidner (52:09):
Have a great Monday. Have a great one. All
right. All right.
All righty, welcome back to our tangled
minds. I'm Harry Weidner.
Jack Weidner (00:10):
Welcome to up come on. Oh, do we what the fuck you
fucked it up?
Harry Weidner (00:17):
Yeah I did. RM jam Harry Weidner. Yeah, it's
fine.
Jack Weidner (00:22):
I'm Jack Weidner.
Harry Weidner (00:24):
And we're back, and we're back. We're back with
episode 18. We got a doozy foryou today. I'm not sure if it's
actually going to be a doozy butstick around and find out.
Jack Weidner (00:36):
I don't think so.
Harry Weidner (00:37):
I am going to say start this because I desperately
need more fundraising money forthe Boston Marathon. I have
exciting news. i Wow.
Unknown (00:47):
Yeah, Shameless, Shameless,
Harry Weidner (00:49):
totally. This is absolutely completely shameless.
I am running the Boston Marathonwith Boston Medical Center. And
Boston Medical Center is thehospital associated with Boston
University, which I go to forgrad school, I'm getting my
master's in public health care.
It's a great cause they reallychampion health equity for all,
something I'm really incrediblypassionate about. And so to be
(01:12):
able to run the Boston Marathonwith them next April is an
incredible opportunity for me.
I'm incredibly excited about it.
But I need donations. So jacket,
Jack Weidner (01:26):
you need to raise an incredible amount of money to
experience it incredible. Did Isay incredible, incredible
amount of fun? You saidincredible, incredible.
Harry Weidner (01:36):
All right, well, it's a great opportunity. And I
need to fundraise for it. SoJack, and I will include my
donation link in the podcastdescription this week. And I
would really appreciate yoursupport, if you can offer it.
And that's my shameless plug.
Everyone. So what's new withyou?
Jack Weidner (02:01):
I spent my morning thinking about why I find AI to
be interesting. And I think it'sbecause and this isn't this
episode. But I do want to talkabout this at some point. I
don't think we've defined whatit means to be human. Like it's
one of those things where it'slike, obscene obscenity word
(02:25):
like you know it when you seeit, but you can't define it. And
I think in the coming world ofAI, our understanding of what it
means to be a human being, isgoing to become more and more
important. And I'm curious tosee where that's gonna go.
Harry Weidner (02:45):
But what does that okay, I'm going to ask you
a question, what does thatchange about anything? Other
than just changing a definition?
Jack Weidner (02:57):
No, I don't think we have a definition. I think it
dramatically changes how wetreat other people, how we
understand ourselves and ourplace in the universe. You know,
like, I think we often thinkabout ourselves as logical
beings, we've created somethingthat is more logical has access
to more information. And, youknow, do we then become more
(03:21):
part of the natural world? Oh,so if we become more part of the
natural world? Where does thatchange? Like, we're actively
destroying the natural world?
You know, like, do we thenchange our relationship with
nature? Or we focus in onemotions, you know, like, oh,
well, we can emote? You know,that's what people say, is makes
us different than AI. So wechange the different, you know,
we center ourselves around ouremotion. How does that change?
(03:44):
You know, do we lead with moreempathy? How does that change
our economy? You know, if youlead with emotion, does
capitalism make the most sense,just making the most sense even
mean anything anymore? I feellike this is an opportunity to
really look at ourselves, figureout what we want to be, and not
(04:05):
just take things as they are.
I'm not trying to be like, I'mnot trying to idealize this. I
understand it's changing enoughedition, but I do think it
should change the way weinteract with the world. For
example, let's say like, sharksare back on Cape Cod. We haven't
(04:26):
really had to deal with a largeshark shark population in our
lives because they were killedby many people before us, right?
We are the Alpha predator, blah,blah, blah, we can go kill
sharks. Okay, so then if we likeput ourselves back in the
mindset of being part of nature,does that then make us have to
(04:49):
deal with the repercussions ofhaving a healthy ecosystem in
Cape Cod and does that mean thatI can't swim without either the
threat of sharks or I could justcan't swim in the ocean like I
You stir. Is that now part ofbeing human?
Harry Weidner (05:05):
I think it's always been part of being human.
Jack Weidner (05:08):
No, it's not. The most part of being human is
saying I'm gonna go kill a sharkbecause it annoys me.
Harry Weidner (05:17):
I don't want to agree with that at all. I think
you're offering two differentperspectives. I think you're
offering two differentperspectives on what it means to
be human. And that's verypersonal to each individual.
Jack Weidner (05:29):
No, no, no, this is I'm not taking anything away
from the conservationists thathave worked to protect sharks.
I'm just saying, by and largehumanity as a whole, though, How
about how about we say theWestern world goes out and says,
I don't like that mountain? I'mgoing to clear it. I don't like
(05:53):
the shark here. I'm going tokill it.
Harry Weidner (05:59):
Okay, but I think you're, you're getting an inch
and taking a mile. With that.
Really? Yeah. i Well,
Jack Weidner (06:07):
how what would you say humanity's relationship with
nature is?
Harry Weidner (06:13):
I think it has changed over time. And I think
it will continue to change. ButI don't think us using AI to
redefine what Being human means.
Gets us to where you're takingit.
Jack Weidner (06:30):
I think I'm not saying it gets us there
tomorrow.
Harry Weidner (06:36):
Yeah, I don't know. I struggled to follow
that. Your argument there?
Jack Weidner (06:43):
Were no, like, we'd no longer be the smartest
thing on earth, I would hope No,I'm not. I just think that like,
I hope it gives us a chance tokind of reassess where humanity
is in the
Harry Weidner (06:54):
war. That's happened countless times
throughout history, right? At
Jack Weidner (06:59):
the aid like during times of incredible
technological revolutions. Whywould this be any different?
Harry Weidner (07:11):
I don't think it's different. But I don't I
don't see.
The fact.
I don't see it changing thetrajectory of human nature.
Jack Weidner (07:30):
I'm saying I hope it does. Because it should.
Yeah, we've set ourselves up forfailure. We don't know what else
for failure. I mean, like, Idon't know what you want me to
say you want me to sit? Like I'mjust saying that. I hope it
allows us to do that. Because Ithink it's given us an
(07:50):
opportunity to really reflect onwhat it means to be human.
Harry Weidner (07:55):
Okay, I'll give it that's all.
Jack Weidner (08:00):
I mean, I don't like God. Like, if you are like,
if you're so optimistic aboutthe world, why aren't we doing
diddly squat about climatechange? Like, it's a fucking
problem? Yeah, it's
Harry Weidner (08:15):
a mess. It's a mess. I think about climate
change a lot. I was just talkingto my professor about climate
change. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (08:22):
So like, we should do something about it. Like who
the fuck is like, I know peopleare doing things about it. But
nothing's being done about it.
Right. Because and I hope youknow. Because what, because not
profitable,
Harry Weidner (08:35):
right? It's not profit. Well, it's not sexy.
Easy. No. Yeah,
Jack Weidner (08:41):
it's not easy.
It's not fun. So I hope, I hopeas a I probably might shake up
what it means to like, be humanon this earth. Because, you
know, we're no longer we mightnot be the most logical. You
know, most like infirm. Like wemight not have the most
(09:03):
information anymore. We're gonnahave to rethink what it means to
be human. And that might allowus to open up some doors for
positive
Harry Weidner (09:11):
Yeah, that's so mystic part of my brain.
Jack Weidner (09:15):
Sure, we're all gonna die and probably no one's
going to do anything about it.
And Elon Musk is gonna fuckingput himself on Mars. I don't
know. Yeah, but like, I'd liketo hope.
Harry Weidner (09:27):
Right, I'll give you your hope. I'll give you
your hope. Let me hope. But mycoffee finished. That's good.
Jack Weidner (09:38):
Yeah, during my rant Yeah.
Harry Weidner (09:40):
What? Oh, rant.
Wow, give me a strong I've justbeen wrong opener.
Jack Weidner (09:46):
I read something by Pope Francis. And I was just,
you know, I've been thinkingabout it a lot today about it.
Well, you know, the pope didn'tsay anything about this. He was
just saying like, in times ofcrisis, so I was reading it his
book, I think it's called a pathto freedom of path forward. It's
a short, short book. And he'sjust like talking. And he's
(10:12):
saying, you know, crises aretimes to reevaluate, and he
wrote it during very earlyCOVID. And, you know, I was,
it's kind of sad to look backand, and be like, you know,
crisis is a great time to, like,come together as a society, you
know, like, we can reallyreanalyze our views and rethink
(10:35):
about how we look at the worldin a crisis allows us to do
that, and I hope we do. And thenyou're sitting here in 2023, and
you're like, oh, fuck, we didn'tdo
Harry Weidner (10:42):
we actually?
Opposite? But like, right,exactly.
Jack Weidner (10:46):
So. So I hope as like, but he's like talking
about, you know, in a Catholicway, but like, it's he's still
talking about, you know, we area people. He's talking about
what it means to be human. And Ihope, you know, AI, is able to
maybe offer us that kind ofmaybe that shakes up enough,
(11:10):
because it doesn't shake up ourdaily lives, like people I think
could go up to your daily life.
But I think AI shakes up ourperception of ourselves. Okay, I
think it shakes up our identity.
I think, even if it's notcurrently doing that, I think
the thought of AI shakes upsomething more fundamental than
(11:30):
even COVID.
Harry Weidner (11:31):
I think, Jack, that you're coming at that from
an intellectual perspective. AndI appreciate that. I appreciate
that as much as the next guy.
But what I truly think AI isgoing to do is fuel the fire for
productivity, and futureprogress. And of people or 99.9%
(11:56):
of people will not rethink aboutthe meaning of humanity. Because
AI exists. That's, that's,that's just what's going to
happen. And so Are ya know,right. And I can follow your
argument, but I don't think it'sgoing to change humanity.
(12:19):
Similar to how Pope Francissaid, we're in a time of crisis,
we should come together. And wedid exactly, yeah, do so.
Jack Weidner (12:30):
And you were, I mean, you're preaching to the
choir. I am. I am a pessimist ona good day. Okay. I just, I just
hope, I hope to God, whateverGod there is. Even if there
isn't a God, I hope thatsomething changes.
Harry Weidner (12:53):
Yeah, me too.
Jack Weidner (12:54):
Because this just a good. This dog just ain't
gonna hunt. No, we're
Harry Weidner (12:59):
continuing on a very unsustainable path, but a
lot of public healthinitiatives. leverage the fact
that humans have more in commonthan we might initially,
superficially said.
That is, that's intellectual. Ofcourse, that's basic. And why do
you mean cuz Why do you think alot of public health initiatives
(13:21):
haven't worked? It's like,that's why we need to,
Jack Weidner (13:30):
you know, but if we like, ah, yeah, I know. I
know. Yep. No, we don't have totalk about this anymore.
Listeners, as you can tell, Ihad a rough morning of thoughts
that panned nowhere. I arrivedat a hopeful place, right. I
mustered up all the hope thatwas in my body. I came here to
(13:53):
talk to my brother. And he shotit with a double barrel shotgun,
and then threw it on the side ofthe road to die and rot in the
gutter. So there's no more No,no. Anyways,
Harry Weidner (14:04):
I just think, let's talk about I had a great
morning. I'll talk about mymorning. I woke up early. Yeah.
I went to bed at 8 (14:11):
30pm. Last night, it was great. And I woke
up and and went for a run aquick little, little three mile
run just to shake the legs outbefore the race on Sunday. I've
run the half marathon on Sunday.
This will come out after that,but that's fine. And then I had
to do a, I don't know mentalflexibility exam for a job that
(14:35):
I applied to, which was fun. Andthen I worked on some of my
paper and now I'm drinking a cupof coffee with my brother.
Pretty Good morning. I did notthink about AI. Humanity because
well,
Jack Weidner (14:50):
I read the book last night. I was up till
midnight reading. I
Harry Weidner (14:55):
was asleep for three and a half hours at that
point.
Pretty sweet.
Jack Weidner (15:00):
We live different lives.
Harry Weidner (15:01):
All right? Well, I had the idea Jack and I were
talking about what we're goingto do this week. And I don't
know how I came up with this.
But we were thinking we needsome time to talk about. So. So
I kind of just wanted to talkabout coffee. And Jack has an
interesting history with coffee.
I have an interesting historywith coffee. And I think coffee
(15:24):
itself has an interestinghistory with people. So
Jack Weidner (15:30):
I'm not qualified to talk about that history. I
don't I didn't look into it atall. This is all going to be
like off. Yeah. And
Harry Weidner (15:36):
what Neither did I really, I just the more I
think about it, the more I thinkcoffee plays a super important
role in society today.
Jack Weidner (15:46):
Yeah, I think I was gonna like when you said,
that's an I have an intellectualapproach. I was gonna make a
joke and be like, Well, I amdrinking coffee. So I think
yeah, there's a lot. Yeah,
Harry Weidner (15:57):
there is. So I don't know. Let's talk about
your history with. Okay, so
Jack Weidner (16:02):
with you? Yeah.
Harry Weidner (16:03):
I've always been a coffee drinker. I've, because
our grandfather drank coffee.
And I decided that that isexactly who I'm going to become.
I started drinking coffee at areally young age. Because he
would make it and I would justbe like, Oh, coffee, fun. And
then I stopped drinking coffeefor a long time. Couple years. I
think I started drinking coffee,again, senior ish year of high
(16:27):
school, when I I don't know whyI did. But I did. I started
drinking coffee again. And then,as I've always said, if
something's worth doing, it'sworth overdoing. And so I
immediately became justabsolutely obsessed with coffee.
I had to know everything aboutit. I had to know about, you
(16:47):
know, growth origins and the howthe altitude affected coffee,
and how you grind your coffeeaffects the taste of your
coffee, I had to learn aboutdifferent brewing methods. And I
kind of got nuts with it. Iended up spending too much money
on a nice coffee grinder. Ibought some good coffee
(17:07):
equipment where I could do thepour over. I also bought a
couple of different immersionbrewers so that I could brew
immersion coffee, I experimentedwith like filtering it, and I
would always buy coffee beanslocally, like locally roasted
coffee beans. That's something Iam really passionate about. And
then, I don't know a coupleyears ago, I just stopped
(17:30):
drinking coffee again, because Igot sick of it. You know, it was
like to spend 10 minutes makingmy morning coffee drove me
crazy. So I stopped drinking it.
And then I just started drinkinglike, I don't know, run of the
mill coffee again, which wasfine. And then COVID happened.
(17:55):
And I would do a lot of my workfor school at a coffee shop
called Rothrock coffee in StateCollege. I would go every
Thursday and Friday morning, getmyself a nice cup of coffee and
sit there for a couple hours andget some work done, which was
really awesome. And that sort ofre sparked my relationship with
coffee. And then I moved toBoston and I just didn't have
(18:18):
time or energy to find a cafewith locally roasted beans. I'm
sure it exists. But I startedembossed Yeah, no definitely
exist. So my apartment buildingwe also
Jack Weidner (18:34):
someone was telling me about this great.
Well, I do I want it to someonetell me about this great place
in Boston. What was it called?
Now start with Dunkin. Dunkin,bagels, Dunkin,
Harry Weidner (18:53):
it's just, it's just Dunkin. Now, yes, people
are obsessed with Dunkin coffeehere. They're everywhere. I
don't get it. But that'ssomething I actually wanted to
talk about today, like antiStarbucks, anti Dunkin because
of ethical reasons. But yeah, myapartment building has a coffee
(19:15):
maker in the lobby. And I justtake the elevator down and hit a
cup of coffee and it gives melike, a not bad cup of coffee.
It doesn't taste like dirty sockwater. It tastes like coffee.
But it's not like it's not likethe coffee that I was drinking
when I was brewing it for sevenminutes by myself in the
morning. You know, it's notlight and fruity, like specialty
(19:37):
coffee should be. And so that'smy history with coffee.
Jack Weidner (19:41):
So this is and I have a question. Why did you
never Oh, go ahead. I was justwondering why you never got into
espresso. I feel like a lot ofpeople that get in the coffee
are like oh, the only good cupof coffee is espresso. So they
like get into espresso but younever ever went down. If
anything's
Harry Weidner (19:57):
worth doing it's worth overdoing. And so If I
were to get into espresso,that's an incredibly time
consuming and expensive hobby.
So you drew a line, I drew aline and I couldn't, I couldn't
go over it. Because the secondthat I started getting into
espresso, I would spend way toomuch time and money on it. You
need a really nice grinder to doit right. And you need really
(20:21):
expensive machines to do it.
Right. And I just, I, I knewthat I couldn't do that.
Jack Weidner (20:30):
I've been curious about this for years. That's no,
Harry Weidner (20:33):
because like, what am I going to do spend $500
on an espresso machine and thenget a really nice grinder so
that I can get fine espressogrinds, like, because there's a
very technical definition ofespresso. And it's not. It's not
espresso, unless it meets thatdefinition. And so you're
drinking your mocha pot coffeeright now, which year, you might
(20:56):
call espresso, but it's not big.
I call it okay. Okay, thatworks. But some people would
call it espresso. And it's justnot because you're not reaching
nine bars of pressure and thatlittle machine, and the
extractions different. Theratios are different. And
frankly, the grind setting isdifferent. For
Jack Weidner (21:16):
it has to be you can't use espresso in this. You
can't use them espresso grind.
Right.
Harry Weidner (21:20):
And so that's why I didn't get into it because I
would go too far into it. So Istopped myself. Long story
short. Yeah, are you your turn
Jack Weidner (21:39):
I hated coffee. My whole life. I thought it was
gross. Our grandfather, as Harryalluded to, we both really
idolized our grandfather. So Iwanted to like coffee. He drank
a shitty black cup. It wasterrible every morning. And I
let Harry just did it. LikeHarry was just like, Yeah, I'll
(22:02):
do that. Um, I did not. I tried,I guess I don't know if that
speaks like I loved him as muchas you I just didn't love him, I
guess enough to like, sufferthrough. So I got really into T
because T was something thatlooked Black and Color tasted
(22:23):
vulgar enough that I could feelmanly, but not disgusting enough
that I couldn't drink it. So Igot really into just like
drinking black tea and I drinkit black like people would be
like, I'd order tea out andthey'd be like, do you want
cream and sugar? And I'm like,no, because I'm tough. I drink
tea. And that pretty much justcontinued. I loved all kinds of
(22:47):
tea. I didn't get to.
Harry Weidner (22:50):
I wouldn't say I wouldn't say we got super into
tea. You got into like, justbags of tea with different kinds
of tea. Like I
Jack Weidner (22:57):
and I drink tea all the time. No. Yeah, you got
into coffee and you can Oh, and
Harry Weidner (23:01):
but I did get into tea. That's the issue leave
you that's the problem. Talkabout your tea. Tell
Jack Weidner (23:08):
me. Tell me about your Oh,
Harry Weidner (23:09):
I know. Well, I feel bad for for interrupting
your story, man.
Jack Weidner (23:13):
I love No, I love it. Like yeah, when did you get
it now? No good. You keepbecause I remember you came
home. Well, it was funny becauselike, I was a tea guy. And you
came home from college one daywith all this tea stuff. I'm
like, Whoa, who the fuck is thisguy on my tea? Yeah. And then
he's like, like, correct mewhile I was making tea. I'm
(23:34):
like, Dude, I'm just, I'm justmaking the tea.
Harry Weidner (23:38):
Okay, I'll talk about so we're gonna talk about
tea for a second. Yeah. And thenwe'll go back into you like
transitioning into likingcoffee. I, oh, man. It was
freshman year. And I wasthinking a lot about like, How
can I sustainably study for avery long time and there was a
lot of good research on greentea. And so I started drinking
(23:59):
green tea. And that is where Igot the tea bog. And so I
flirted with tea for a littlebit into like, understanding
where the different tea leavesare grown, how they're roasted,
and different antioxidants inthe tea and vitamins and
minerals within the tea and youhave to brew different teas at
different temperatures and steepthem for different amounts of
(24:20):
time. And and I only did thatfor a little bit, but it was
probably a year and a half of mereally liking tea.
Jack Weidner (24:32):
And to show how much you did teach me about tea,
I think herbal you like a good175 And that works for most
teas, but there are some blackteas that do better at like a to
12 because they're a littledarker Is that Yeah,
Harry Weidner (24:47):
so I really don't know I don't remember the exact
temperatures but you roast blacktea or you brew black tea at a
higher temperature than you brewgreen tea. Because you don't
want to write in green don'twant to ruin those There's
antioxidants and all that goodstuff,
Jack Weidner (25:03):
right? Yeah, the Jasmine that I have requires
175. That's an herbal tea. So Iboil water and let it's no,
Jasmine's green.
Harry Weidner (25:12):
I think I have no idea.
Jack Weidner (25:16):
Let's see. Now look it up because I don't want
to sound dumb. I think
Harry Weidner (25:21):
Jasmine is green, black or white tea, Jasmine.
Okay. All right. Just so that weget this right, jasmine blossoms
are a flower. So Jasmine aloneis a is an herbal tea if you
just have a jasmine tea, but youcan mix it with black, green or
white tea. And then you have mytea is okay, so you have a green
(25:43):
jasmine tea. I have a green. Soit's a green tea with hints of
Jasmine.
Jack Weidner (25:49):
Yes, we're learning today. And that's
that's really like this is likean educational program now.
Harry Weidner (25:56):
Um,
Jack Weidner (25:56):
yeah. So what I do, unlike you is I boil water
in my little tea kettle, andthen I let it sit until I feel
like it's reached 175. And thenI pour it and I drink it.
Harry Weidner (26:11):
See, I could I couldn't see I couldn't do that
I need to have because do youthink though? I don't know. I
Oh, I need the temperature to beexactly what the temperature has
to be. You know, that's, that'swhat I do. People
Jack Weidner (26:25):
are catching on. I think people are catching on the
we have addictive personalitiesjust about wildly different.
Yes. But I think yourneuroticism is coming out right
now in ways that I don't thinkthe viewers have gotten a taste
of yet.
Harry Weidner (26:40):
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm incredibly neurotic. Yeah.
Because I
Jack Weidner (26:47):
think they look at me and they're like, Oh, you're
so existential. You'repsychotic. But now they're gonna
look at you. And thank God hewould be held.
Harry Weidner (26:56):
I'm sure I wouldn't be, I'm sure. Imagine
living in my own head.
Jack Weidner (27:03):
Dude, imagine, I don't think I don't think anyone
wants to live in each of ourheads. Each of our respective
heads, I think is an individual.
Anyways, so I was just into tea.
I had a lot of just tea all thetime. Throughout college and I
kept late hours, you know, Iwould study, my college
(27:27):
schedule, I think was literallyselect. Let's start my day at
five o'clock. I'd finish classin the afternoon. And then I'd
study I'd get dinner at somepoint, I'd get back to my dorm
if I wasn't on duty. I'd take anap from nine to 11. And then I
would just write from 11 to fourin the morning, whole time and
(27:51):
drinking black tea. Just blackgreen tea, whatever caffeine
sometimes I switch it upsometimes a little herbal. But
yeah, no never did coffeethroughout college. until my
junior year, I took Italian. AndI was like I had to go meet
(28:12):
these Italian Foreign exchangestudents to tutor me for extra
credit. So I go and I just speakItalian with them. And they
would just go to the coffee shopon campus and get espresso. So I
would just go with them. Andfinally one guy, his name was
Francesco. I love them so much.
But he had said you do you wantespresso? I'd say No, I'm okay.
I don't like coffee. He said no,no, you don't like shitty
(28:34):
coffee. This is espresso waslike fuck. Alright, so I did a
shot. And it wasn't it. It wasthe least offensive cup of
coffee I've ever had. So I waslike, okay, maybe I can do shots
of espresso. And from that pointon, I think I just kind of I was
like, I was like, Oh, I canstomach this. And then the more
(28:58):
I did it, the more I started tolike it. So like I would do
cappuccinos and like veryoccasionally throughout college
and then when I graduated, I waslike, oh, I'll just like I would
go to the cafe. Like I'd go to acafe with my girlfriend and I
get you know, double shot ofespresso if it was past like 10
or something or a drink likecappuccino and I just really
started to like it. And I boughta mocha pot so I can make it at
(29:22):
home and save some money.
Because I didn't want to spend$500 on an espresso machine and
I have a very casualrelationship with coffee but I
do like espresso just likeHarry's described what I like I
guess is like I it's thicker. Isthat right? And darker.
Harry Weidner (29:45):
I don't know what kind of like, I guess you like,
like a darker roast. Sure.
Jack Weidner (29:49):
I use I do like a French Roast like chopped
espresso roast. I like anamericano very occasionally if
I'm going to be up for a longtime and it's late at night. I I
cannot I still don't like dripcoffee because to me it's like,
watered down and it's just toolong. Like it's like When will
this end? So that's kind ofwhere I'm at. Like, I feel very
(30:12):
pretentious when I say like, Ijust kind of like want a shot of
espresso like, I don't want awhole cup of coffee. That's a
big commitment for me. Andthat's my relationship. Did
Harry Weidner (30:20):
I ever make you like a good proper cup of
coffee? I feel like I have.
Jack Weidner (30:25):
I think you did. I think I drank some of it. I
don't know.
Harry Weidner (30:30):
Because I think a lot of people don't understand
what specialty coffee is andtastes like. And that sounds so
pretentious of me. But like what
Jack Weidner (30:39):
you here's, let's let's get into the culture.
Yeah. A little Well, no. Okay,you you tell me about like what
a good cup of coffee should beand then we can get into the
culture. You betcha. I'mpretentious. Specialty Coffee
Harry Weidner (30:50):
is generally a lighter roast. So that you can
taste all of the nuance in thebeans. And so it's much like
wine, where the altitude and thesoil that the coffee is grown in
gives the beans different, adifferent flavor profile. And
(31:11):
real so I enjoy Yeah, no, it'stotally like wine. So I enjoyed
like, don't
Jack Weidner (31:17):
get in the wine.
Man, I
Harry Weidner (31:19):
yeah, I can't you. I never Yeah. I enjoyed. I
enjoyed, you know, tastingdifferent beans from around the
world. And Rothrock did a reallycool thing where they had a
relationship with the people whogrew the beans. So they would
have they would they would havethese informational pamphlets.
(31:40):
So you could really understandabout the roasting process, and
some coffees are fermented. AndI don't know, it was just a very
fun, interesting thing to do.
But I think most people don'tunderstand specialty coffee in
that light. Most people like amedium to darker roast because
they think that's all thatcoffee is. But typically
popular. Coffee has that flavor.
(32:05):
Because they're subpar beans.
The longer you roast a bean, themore you can mask. Bad flavors
that Yeah, yeah, so a darkerroast. Generally, I don't want
to say, you know, totally, but alot of the time has is an
inferior quality bean. Andthat's being roasted for a
(32:25):
longer time to mask some. Someoff flavors. Yeah. It's
interesting.
Jack Weidner (32:35):
Is it okay to like a dark roast? Yeah, absolutely.
I think I guess I guess Iwouldn't know. Like, I don't
know if I've had a light roast.
It's just
Harry Weidner (32:43):
like wine. Where it's nobody's pleased to judge
you, you I like you like whatyou like, and I'm not going to
yuck your yum. I enjoyedspecialty coffee. And that was
my, my jam. But if someone islike, I love a darker roast
(33:03):
coffee, I'm not gonna be like,that sucks. That's the grossest
thing ever, you know, everyone'sentitled to their own opinions.
And they like, yeah.
Jack Weidner (33:11):
Where do you get into? Like, what do you what's
your opinion on like, mixed? Idon't want to say mixed drinks.
But like, we've cappuccinos wehave lattes. macchiatos you
know, do you ever did you everget into I know you like a
cappuccino? Yeah,
Harry Weidner (33:23):
I love a cappuccino. And recently, I've
been drinking cappuccinos moreand more, because I'm so
incredibly vain that I don'twant to stain my teeth with
black coffee. So I adding addingsome milk to it, you know,
reduces the potential forstaining your teeth. You know,
you
Jack Weidner (33:38):
can do shots of espresso and literally just
shoot it back.
Harry Weidner (33:41):
I know. But yeah, I
Jack Weidner (33:42):
don't know. I don't know. The dentist told me
that. She said What kind ofcoffee do you drink? I said,
espresso. She said that's good.
Just shoot it back. Don't let ittouch your cheek. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (33:51):
Yeah, the acidity in the coffee mixed with the
pigments just doesn't bode wellfor having a white smile. So no,
where do I Where do I fall onopinions of like lattes and
cappuccinos. I love acappuccino. I don't love a
latte. It's too milky for me.
But you know that's again,that's my personal preference. I
(34:14):
don't like when places callsomething a cappuccino and it's
not a proper cappuccino. Youhave a story about this from
yesterday with your macchiato acappuccino. It's traditionally
two ounces of espresso, twoounces of steamed milk and then
two ounces of foam. So it's asix ounce drink. And oftentimes
people offer you like a smallmedium or large cappuccino,
(34:34):
which by definition is not acappuccino. Again, a really
annoying pretentious thing toknow. But yeah, I don't I don't
mind a good milky drink. Everynow and then.
Jack Weidner (34:50):
I love kimchi. I was just curious. I don't know.
Um, yeah. I I'm just so curious.
Like a lot of people have veryhard opinions on Coffee where I
see I see a lot of like, I thinkItalians don't order cappuccinos
past 10am But
Harry Weidner (35:09):
yeah, there's some there's some rule there's a
rule but it's like it'ssomething with their their
tummies.
Jack Weidner (35:16):
I think it Yeah, I think it's too it's that they're
too heavy. So I don't there'slike a part of me that had like,
read that and someone was reallymean about it on the internet.
So I got scared. I was like, Idon't want anyone to think that
I'm like, you know, weird. So Idon't order this past 10am Now,
(35:39):
or before six. So like, between10 and six. I don't order a
cappuccino and then I'll I'llget a cappuccino in the evening.
Yeah, I
Harry Weidner (35:46):
see I something that you said
Jack Weidner (35:48):
you're not an evening coffee. Oh, I'm an E,
I'm a big evening called
Harry Weidner (35:53):
No, I am not a caffeine like after 1pm kind of
guy. Because I do believe in thescience. That caffeine has a
half life of about six hours inthe body and different people
metabolize it at differentrates. But generally speaking,
the half life is about sixhours. And so try not to drink
(36:14):
caffeine before six hours, sixhours before you go to View go
if I go,
Jack Weidner (36:18):
if I go you have a healthy normal bed, I go to 8pm
If I go to bed at
Harry Weidner (36:21):
8pm Like fuck, you know. So you have
Jack Weidner (36:25):
a healthy, normal bedtime and you like your body
isn't a schedule, and I am amess. So I don't have a healthy
normal bedtime. So you know,I'll do a little sleep to
dinner. You
Harry Weidner (36:40):
would do that.
And that's crazy.
Jack Weidner (36:43):
I love it. It's about I love that. I just love
the taste. Yeah,
Harry Weidner (36:47):
if if the only way that I'll do that is if I'm
like going to a bar and I'mgonna have myself a long night.
Jack Weidner (36:54):
Man what doggies has like a coffee drink? And
Harry Weidner (36:59):
it's pretty good.
And
Jack Weidner (37:01):
it was so an I. I needed that when we went out
with your friends like no one'sbusiness. Yeah, I'm that was
like I was resurrected from thedead with a drink.
Harry Weidner (37:15):
Yeah.
Let's,let's transition you brought up
a bar and much like a bar. Ithink cafes. Yeah, coffee shops
hold a special place in ourculture. And the way we see it
today, I think coffee is reallyan incredible thing. Because
it's it's not only a drink, butit's something that people can
(37:40):
use to connect with each other.
Right? So a lot of times
Jack Weidner (37:47):
what I think food has that power more broadly. And
I'm like curious what how coffeeconnects people in a special
way.
Harry Weidner (37:55):
Think about how people will say, oh, let's just
grab a cup of coffee. You know,there's something about saying,
let's grab a cup of coffee. Youknow, it's like, it's a really
good way to catch up with peopleor it's a really good excuse to
say, let's catch up with people.
Without the commitment ofquickly.
Jack Weidner (38:14):
Yes, with food.
When you say let's get a cup ofcoffee, it can be a three hour
affair. It can be 30 minutes,
Harry Weidner (38:24):
but it doesn't like it doesn't. It's so
dependent on how theconversation is going. So what
are we having a good time? Arewe having a bad time? If we're
having a good time, let's stickaround and sip on our coffee. If
we're having a bad time. I gottaI gotta hit the road. You
Jack Weidner (38:39):
know, or like, I think a good Cafe is somewhere
where you can finish your cup ofcoffee and still sit and feel
welcome. Yeah, to like, youdon't feel like you have to get
out the door. As opposed to arestaurant. Yeah, where a
restaurant, you know, you mighthave you have a timeframe. I
think like a great coffee shopis somewhere where you can sit
(39:00):
for a long time or a brief time,like however long you want.
Yeah, and
Harry Weidner (39:05):
the dynamics of a coffee shop. I love. I love
people watching. I know that.
But I also love peoplecommunicating. But a coffee shop
or a coffee shop is a greatplace to like, watch interesting
people do interesting things.
Jack Weidner (39:23):
I sit with a book and a notebook. The quotes that
I have gotten from coffee shopsare just amazing. I don't know
if I have any on my phone. Butpeople will just say anything
like they're like they're not inpublic. Like they're being
listened to. Like I've listenedto people talk with their
friends about if they should geta divorce. And I'm like you're
(39:45):
in a public place. It is 10 inthe morning. And I love it like
I'm like where's the popcorn?
Harry Weidner (39:51):
Yeah.
I don't know it. I think theatmosphere of a coffee shop is a
really open and inviting placefor people to have those
comfortable conversations over acup of coffee. I think that it's
so something over a cup ofcoffee is so powerful.
Jack Weidner (40:11):
This is the most recent quote that I wrote down
on my phone. And it was all thatI heard because I believe, but
it was, it was just a womantalking with her friends. She
goes, it's like incestuous. AndI was just so curious. I was
like, What are
Unknown (40:28):
ya? Yeah. Fascinating.
So, guy, you go.
Jack Weidner (40:34):
No, no, go where you're gonna say,
Harry Weidner (40:36):
No, you go.
Jack Weidner (40:38):
I'm just, I'm curious. Because I think this is
I have a question. I feel likecoffee has such a place. Among.
I think like, we often thinklike, if you're, you know, you
can be pretentious about coffee,you can be pretentious about
wine. It's like this. Like, Ithink in some ways it's
(40:58):
elevated. If you're like doingit at a coffee shop, if you're
like overdoing it, if you takelike if you have like an
intellectual relationship withit. So like, I think like the
coffee shop crowd, like this,like idea of hipster. Like I
think it's very intellectual, Ithink is very tied to
literature. And the humanities,like the freedom of thought like
(41:20):
counterculture, you know, isvery, it's very hip. Right.
counterculture is mainstreamright now. And I think the
coffee shop has taken a reallyunique place in society where
you see a lot of that, like, Oh,you want to be bohemian? Let's
go to a coffee shop, and sitthere for you know, a long time
and get coffee and blah, blah,blah. I'm just curious. Is that
(41:42):
like your experience? Or is thatbecause with watch on TV?
Harry Weidner (41:46):
Well, yeah, coffee, coffee had a lot of
history in the enlightenment,actually. And this is what I
don't know. Yeah, coffee, hadsome history with the
enlightenment. And people woulddrink coffee as opposed to
alcohol because it would sharpentheir mind. And so I wanted to
talk about coffee too, because Ithink it plays an enormous
(42:07):
background role in so manyadvancements that have happened.
You know, it's like, there arepeople and intellectuals who
have been fueled by coffee forhundreds of years. And I think
that I think it plays a reallyimportant background role in in
(42:32):
what's going on and what peopleare thinking about. So I have a
had a professor, my mentor isone of the greatest people that
I know, he always has a cup ofcoffee, no matter what. And it's
just one of those things that Iassociate with him, and then I
associate with his thoughts. So,I mean, how many great books
(42:55):
have been written by people whohave been drinking coffee? You
know, into the wee hours of themorning? probably hundreds of
1000s.
Jack Weidner (43:05):
Yeah. And I'd be curious to see how many of them
are drinking coffee and how manyof them are alcoholics? And I'd
be curious to see what thedifference.
Harry Weidner (43:13):
Yeah, I don't know. I I don't know anything
about this beyond my, my ownexperience, but I think a lot of
good work has gotten done. Whenpeople are consuming coffee.
Jack Weidner (43:26):
Yeah, I think like, you know, like, the
idealized place to go to doschoolwork now is coffee. You're
working on something coffeeshop. John Green wrote The Fault
in Our Stars of Starbucks. Ithink it was a Starbucks. It was
a coffee shop. I know that. AndI'm just really interested in
(43:48):
its ties to so I didn't knowthat about the enlightenment.
Yeah, play the highest intoplay,
Harry Weidner (43:54):
it was played a pretty big role. And also, this
is going back to like the coffeeshop as an as a community
entity. I was at a coffee shoplast Friday with my friend and
we were getting some work done.
And I've always known this, butI just put like my finger on it.
Why coffee shops are soimportant for communities. It's
because they were advertisinglocal artists. You know what a
(44:17):
great there was local art allover the walls that you could
buy. And what a great place tobe able to showcase your art if
you're a budding artist on thewalls of a coffee shop that's
visited by people from thecommunity. And Milhouse does
this back in Johnstown. I mean,they not anymore. They used to.
Jack Weidner (44:42):
They used to do the art. They don't do the art,
but they
Harry Weidner (44:46):
thought of art.
They also hold like communityevents. Yes, they
Jack Weidner (44:51):
do, which there are like there's certainly a
center for the community.
Harry Weidner (44:56):
And I hadn't thought about it like that
before, but I think coffee shopsplay a role. really important
role in building a sense ofcommunity? In a neighborhood?
Jack Weidner (45:08):
Yeah. Interesting.
I don't know, I have this weirdrelationship with
countercultural ism nowadays,because it's become so
mainstream. It's like, everyonewants to be at a coffee shop
having this image during thisthing. And I do too. And I hate
that I do that. I want that Iwant to be a part of that. I
(45:29):
don't know why. And it's, it'sso annoyingly, like, it feels so
superficial, that I think likeany of that read, like substance
that was to it, like, you know,like going to a coffee shop
having a really, you know,quote, unquote, intellectual
conversation, whatever the fuckthat means. Yeah, I just is that
(45:50):
gone? Like, it hasn't just beenreplaced with like AI. Now I
need to go and be seen at acoffee shop to partake in that
image of what it means to bepart of a community or this that
the other thing? And I'm justcurious, like, what are your
thoughts on that?
Harry Weidner (46:08):
I think I think if we think about the history of
counterculture, it, it has beenvery dynamic over time. And so I
don't think that's an humannature is to go against a part
of human nature is to go againstwhat is mainstream? Yeah, yes.
(46:32):
For some people and to feel intofeel like you're doing your own
thing. And then, yeah, that hascaught up with and people go on
to do something else. You know,it's, it's just like how trends
change over time. And so I likethat your experience with a
coffee shop, is just becausewhat you have enjoyed, and do
(46:58):
enjoy. Modern Culture has caughtup to that. And you don't like
yeah,
Jack Weidner (47:06):
it's just like, I hate. And this goes into my
rant. I don't like, there's somuch like a feeling of like, I
get anxious going into coffeeshops nowadays. Because like,
there's like loud music, andthere's like a bunch of people
and everyone's standing there.
And it's like, I just want tosit. And like, I want people
there because I like like, justlike listening and stuff. But
(47:30):
like, it's just I always feellike I'm on display there. And I
feel like you know, like, I haveto like do this thing. And I
just, I don't want a call like Ijust want to go in and I want to
order a coffee and I wanted tobe right. And I just want to sit
and not like have to like, thinkabout my image at this place.
And that's all that I thinkabout. I think that's like my
(47:51):
anxiety, saying that but likeit. There's something
performative about it to me whenI go into a coffee shop
nowadays. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (48:03):
Yeah, I understand that. I appreciate
that.
Jack Weidner (48:07):
And I do the dance. Like I'm not saying I'm
better than the dance. Oh, no,no. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (48:11):
I mean, but I I feel like
you can find yourself a coffeeshop. That you don't have to
feel like that. You know, maybeyeah, the nature of where you
live. The sample size is limitedfor coffee shops that you can go
to.
Jack Weidner (48:31):
Yeah, like Cafe Reggio in New York City is
probably like I went in a fewweeks ago after seeing a talk.
And I sat down, someone came up,they asked me what I wanted. I
just said, you know, I ordered acappuccino. And I think I got a
quiche. And they were like,cool. Took my menu. They brought
(48:55):
it they left there were noniceties. Like we were polite,
but like we weren't like, Oh myGod, how are you? And he left me
alone. I finished. I was alonefor three hours. I pulled out a
book I read for three hours. Andthen eventually he came back
he's like, do you want to check?
I was like, Yeah, sure. And thenI left that was it.
(49:15):
It was great. Yeah, I
Harry Weidner (49:17):
mean, that's just an example of like finding a
place where you feelcomfortable. And yeah, that
meets what you're looking for. Ithink I think what might bother
you about it is that you goplaces just to watch other
(49:39):
people you know you go thereselflessly to watch and listen
to other people. And some otherpeople might be going there to
pretend to do what you're doing.
Jack Weidner (49:53):
I don't Yeah, I also don't like being this is
gonna sound so dumb. I don'tlike being perceived. I get very
selfish conscious. So then I getanxious. And like, I had to talk
to someone the other day and Ido when I get anxious, I do this
thing where I like run myfinger. That's pretty common,
but I do this where I like runmy fingers through each other.
So I like ask them for somethingand I went up and I was like
(50:13):
this. Oh, because I was anxiousthat I was like, I think like
fucking schmeeckle trying to askfor a bag that I like, I'm like,
worried of like, people saw thatas, like, such a terrible
experience. Yeah. Like, whycan't we just be cool? Like,
why? Like Bob Dylan? So cool. Ifeel like a Bob Dylan went to a
(50:36):
coffee shop in the 60s. He justbe chill, but do you know why
he's cool? Because
Harry Weidner (50:40):
he doesn't care.
Like he genuinely. Genuinelydoesn't care. That's so cool. I
know. It's so cool. Um, butlike, he's just gonna be Bob
Dylan. And he's gonna make themusic that he wants to make and
like, yeah, that's what's coolabout it. And we've talked about
this before, but he stoppedbeing Bob Dylan when people
expected him to be Bob Dylan,because he just wanted to do it.
Jack Weidner (51:03):
And then he changed Bob Dylan. Now he now he
does gospel music.
Harry Weidner (51:10):
Or should we wrap it wrap it up? This was good.
Jack Weidner (51:12):
I think so. This was good. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know if this isinteresting. I learned a lot
about cost,
Harry Weidner (51:17):
man. It's all up in my dome.
It's all it's all. It's all upthere somewhere.
Jack Weidner (51:24):
Well, thank you so much for sticking around. See
how this mess unravels? We'regonna put up don't forget to
donate to Harry so he can runthe Boston Marathon, please. We
should do. We should do a donatea THON, where we just live
stream a pod.
Harry Weidner (51:41):
Dude, I'm not kidding. I will do anything for
someone to donate some. Whatever
Jack Weidner (51:46):
you got, if you guys want. How about this? If
you guys want Harry to do Harryand I to do something to get him
donations, please email us atour tangled minds@gmail.com and
we will do whatever you suggestwithin reason. Thank you so
much. And I hope you guys have agreat rest of your week because
(52:06):
this comes out on Monday. Hopeyour Monday.
Harry Weidner (52:09):
Have a great Monday. Have a great one. All
right. All right.
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