December 4, 2023 • 37 mins
Mornin’ Tangled Minds! Hope you’re hungry! (Sorry, that’s lame.) Today, Harry and I discuss food: what it means to us, what we like, what we dislike, a little bit about how food might change due to vast changes in the public health infrastructure. Holy Cannoli! (Again, sorry…) Hope you enjoy and don’t forget to send us an email at ourtangledminds@gmail.com and donate to Harry’s Boston Marathon run here (https://www.givengain.com/project/harry-weidner-raising-funds-for-boston-medical-center). Also, stay tuned for a big announcement in the coming weeks!
Email us at ourtangledminds@gmail.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Harry Weidner (00:04):
All right, welcome back to our tangled
minds.
Jack Weidner (00:09):
Welcome back to our tangled mind, Harry
Harry Weidner (00:11):
Weidner.
Jack Weidner (00:12):
I'm Jack Weidner and we're back
Harry Weidner (00:16):
after Thanksgiving.
Jack Weidner (00:18):
Woohoo, we
Harry Weidner (00:19):
had a great Thanksgiving
Jack Weidner (00:21):
uneventful.
Harry Weidner (00:21):
really honestly uneventful. Nothing too crazy
happened.
Jack Weidner (00:26):
Really all you can ask. Yeah, it
Harry Weidner (00:27):
was nice to come home. It was nice to come home.
I don't it had been a long timesince I was home. Like many,
many, many months, so it wasnice to go back. And now I'm
back in Boston, you say
Jack Weidner (00:41):
that, like you think you're better than me?
Think you're better than me?
Because you're up in Boston?
Harry Weidner (00:44):
No, no, no, no, no, no,
Jack Weidner (00:46):
you don't come home a lot. Well, it's
Harry Weidner (00:47):
just like it's far away. It's far. Oh, Mr.
Jack Weidner (00:51):
Big out of Towner coming home the grace of the
peasants with his presents. Wow.
Whoa, big Oh. Does it feeldifferent? Coming back to town
from the big city?
Harry Weidner (01:07):
No, it doesn't feel that. Yeah, it doesn't. It
doesn't feel different. It feelslike going home. My perspective
on going back is I always thinkit's going to be relaxing. And
then it's never relaxing.
Jack Weidner (01:20):
Our house is not relaxing at all. So
Harry Weidner (01:23):
it's absolutely chaotic. And I think the crazy
influx of everyone going back.
It's like there's this. There'sthis pressure to see people and
do all these things. And so it'snever relaxing. I think my life
is more relaxing here than it isback at home. But it is always
nice to go home. And I lovedseeing mom and I think she
appreciated the fact that wewere both home for the holiday.
(01:44):
And
Jack Weidner (01:46):
yeah, oh, it's great. Mom doesn't get to see us
both together a lot now or so.
Should we talk about what timewe ate Thanksgiving because that
was kind of nuts.
Harry Weidner (01:56):
Yeah, I mean, we
Jack Weidner (01:58):
started eating at nine o'clock at night.
Harry Weidner (02:00):
I was pissed. I don't I don't know if you can
tell. I thought I was reallycurious. I was.
Jack Weidner (02:05):
Yeah, you were like you were so like, sitting
next to you. You were so tense.
I was just tired when he you'relike, I want to eat these mashed
potatoes I don't want to go to
Harry Weidner (02:14):
I was so tired. I operate on different hours these
days. And the combination ofgoing to Philly, and then
staying up late every night.
Just didn't do me. Right. So Ineeded my routine and eating it.
Eating Thanksgiving dinner at9pm was just like the worst
thing that could have had well,not the worst thing but it was
(02:36):
it was not good. I didn't havefun.
Jack Weidner (02:39):
I never got the full story. Did we just not
thought the turkey or I don'tthink I
Harry Weidner (02:45):
don't think anyone thought it through. I
don't think anyone was like,Yeah, we should we should thaw
the turkey or? I don't know. Isthat what Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
And no one was in a hurrybecause I wasn't. Yeah, no one
was in a hurry to do anything.
Well,
Jack Weidner (03:03):
I mean, God forbid you're not in a hurry on things.
Well, here's like, if we'regonna do something we're gonna
do it right. We're gonna do aproper.
Harry Weidner (03:11):
I don't know, I don't think we should have eaten
at 9pm. But if we do that nextyear, I'll I
Jack Weidner (03:16):
thought it was nice. I thought it was casual.
No one was smooth that food was
Harry Weidner (03:20):
let's move that back, like three hours. Let's
move that up three hours.
Jack Weidner (03:26):
You can't have a non stressful I don't think I'm
I think if you move it up,people are stressed. Because no
one gets up as early as you do.
So then like, all that time, youhave to get up that much
earlier. And that makes peoplebe stressed. No. Do you put a
timeframe on it? No,
Harry Weidner (03:43):
if you prepare properly. It should be done on
time
Jack Weidner (03:50):
that you ask people to you asking our family
to prepare properly is not goingto happen that puts stress on I
don't
Harry Weidner (03:57):
know. We'll see how we'll see how Christmas
goes.
Jack Weidner (04:01):
Well, I'm cooking Christmas Eve. So well. What
Harry Weidner (04:03):
was this? What was this big thing about us
doing? It? We don't need to getinto it here but oh,
Jack Weidner (04:09):
we I can't even I and then you ask you ask follow
up questions. And she's like,well, we'll talk you know, I
don't know. We'll talk about itlater. It's like what do you
talk like me? You're changingthe whole thing. Well,
Harry Weidner (04:24):
so for everyone listening Welcome to our family
drama.
Jack Weidner (04:29):
Really is like I don't think we actually get
Harry Weidner (04:32):
what's happening at any given time. And and
that's what Jack and I areunpacking right now, but it was
nice to see you over break.
Anything and nothing interestingThanksgiving Eve. Not much to
debrief from their blackoutWednesday.
Jack Weidner (04:51):
Is that what they call? Yeah, some
Harry Weidner (04:52):
people call it blackout Wednesday. I don't
know. I think I'm over it. I'mdone.
Jack Weidner (04:58):
I had half awake clock
Harry Weidner (05:02):
Yeah, I
Jack Weidner (05:04):
I'm curious what you want to
Harry Weidner (05:05):
talk about food.
I don't have anything to talkabout. I thought you had things
to talk about because you likefood more than spoilers suggest
Jack and I are talking aboutfood today. Because we talked
about coffee last week. And andI thought it would be a good,
good idea to talk about food.
What that means I'm not quitesure. And find out. Yeah, I
(05:30):
always think of Jack is someonewho likes food and appreciates
food and likes cooking food andthinking about food. You had
your days where you were reallyobsessed with chefs and
Jack Weidner (05:40):
all of that. I still I still.
Harry Weidner (05:43):
You loved your cookbooks. And so I just kind of
wanted to still do talk aboutyour relationship with food.
Jack Weidner (05:52):
My relationship with food, I love food. I think
food is one of the best partsabout living.
Harry Weidner (06:01):
Okay, that's
Jack Weidner (06:02):
like full stop. I don't know. I mean, I think I
got it. I wanted to start. Idon't know why I always wanted
to start cooking. I mean, tolike, take it back to
Thanksgiving. I remember when Iwas a little kid, I always
wanted to be in the kitchen,with my mom making food. I was
wanting to help cook familymeals, especially Christmas Eve.
(06:23):
For those listening that don'tknow, our family does the
Italian American tradition ofthe Seven Fishes where you have
this huge time feast with pastasand different kinds of seven
different types of quoteunquote, fish, but it's really
just seafood. And I really Ijust wanted to help, you know, I
was obsessed, like mygrandmother has this box of old
(06:45):
recipes that were handed downand collected from different
friends. And it was just fun tobe in the kitchen. And that I
think when I was in high school,I started cooking more on my own
to the chagrin of my motherbecause I make a mess in the
kitchen. And my mother, if youuse the kitchen, my mom just
(07:05):
like it, she loses her mind. Shecan't handle pots being used.
You get a crumb somewhere. Andshe's like Jack Weidner. John
David, we do not eat in thishouse. And you're like, alright,
mom, like, I promise I'll cleanit up. And then like, so I
started to, you know, experimentwith things or start watching
videos. And we're at a reallygreat time in cooking right now
(07:28):
where you can go online andlearn a bunch of things about
cooking. And I read what reallytransformed my relationship with
food was reading this greatcookbook, but we can talk about
cookbooks later. And then I juststarted, you know, playing and
playing and now, I love food, Ilove to go out to eat. And
that's for a bunch of differentreasons. But what's your history
with you? We're never reallyinterested in the kitchen at
(07:48):
all. No, I'm
Harry Weidner (07:49):
completely uninterested in the kitchen. Not
to say that I don't like tocook, I did get into cooking,
like, over COVID A little morejust because I have nothing
better to do. But I think myrelationship with food for a
long, long, long time, that hasjust been like, How can I eat as
healthy as possible as quicklyas possible? And that that's
(08:12):
like, that's how I've built mycareer.
Jack Weidner (08:15):
When did that start? Why do you think that
started, I
Harry Weidner (08:17):
don't know, it started when i i So I would just
eat whatever. And then at somepoint, maybe in high school,
sophomore, junior year, itdoesn't matter. I got into
fitness and working out andeating healthy. And that sort of
set me off. Honestly, on an anunhealthy relationship with
(08:40):
food, I would do like measure mycalories and count my macros,
and that whole thing, and I hadthe kitchen scale, and I would
weigh everything out. And thatsort of transformed my
relationship with food to justvery transactional. And I'm
(09:01):
going to treat these as numbersand I have to hit you know, this
certain calorie count, and hitthe protein and taking whatever
and I don't know, it became toomechanical for me. And at some
point, I was like, Hey, yougotta stop this. Like, this is
getting almost obsessive. And sothen I had done that for such a
long time. That now I kind ofunderstand how many calories I
(09:24):
mean, because I don't think it'sa it's an unimportant thing to
think about. Like, I thinkshirts, it's good to know.
Jack Weidner (09:33):
There's validity to what you're eating. There's
it can be very healthy to knowwhat you're eating and what
kinds of calories you're intake.
Yeah. Or how many calories andwhat types of nutrients you're
in taking.
Harry Weidner (09:45):
I still maintain that. But then in college, my
diet became like meal prep, eatand then go on to the next thing
food became very like no passingthing. It was like How can I
quickly make of something
Jack Weidner (10:02):
you did to survive? You're like, I have to
wake up tomorrow, how do I eatfood,
Harry Weidner (10:07):
and it still in a way is like that I've I've
lasered in pretty mucheverything that I eat in a day
to be the healthiest, fastestand easiest thing to clean up.
And so very much unlike you. Ilike don't spend a lot of time
(10:32):
thinking about food.
Jack Weidner (10:34):
I think about food a lot I do. And I think for me,
one of the most obsessive thingsabout food is that I love
thinking about food as a meansof connection between people. I
was gonna ask you about thefood. Yeah, so fruit food for me
is not just, you know, likeputting things in my mouth.
It's, I think about the tastesthat I'm cooking with and how
(10:57):
this is going to play with thisand how you know, you need a
little bit of acidity, if you'regoing to do a little bit of
sweetness, or if you arecooking, little savory, maybe
add a little bit of sugar, likehow can I use nutmeg in a pasta
dish, which is all verytechnical and fun for my like,
science part of my brand orwhatever. But I think for me, it
just boils down to I lovecooking for people seeing that
(11:20):
reaction, getting to share atable with someone like it's a
means for conversation. I lovethinking about the cultural
aspects of food. Like I lovecooking Italian food. And I
think that stems from the factthat you know, our mother's
family is Italian and I grew upsurrounded by those recipes. But
I wanted to know the story ofit. And I wanted to know, how
(11:42):
were Italian immigrants changingthe way they thought about food
when they got to this country.
You know, a lot of people a lotof Italians in New York, when
they got here, they would ordersalt from the Mediterranean and
they'd have it shipped overbecause the salt in America
wasn't enough or you know, theidea of fresh produce, like the
way people center their lives oron food as it changes as they
(12:02):
move in as new ingredientsbecome available. And that
narrative is also veryinteresting to me. So I think
there's so many layers to food,there's the art of cooking,
there's the study of where whatyou're eating comes from,
there's the community aspect ofAre you are you going to the
farmers market, are you buyinglocal ingredients, and then
(12:23):
there's, you know, there's a lotof different things that I'm
obviously interested in withfood, like inequality, and, you
know, there's a lot of differentlayers that I can unpack. And I
think I think about food somuch, because when I'm, you
know, one of my favorites, youknow, if I'm gonna if I want to
talk to someone, oh, let's gohave a bite to eat, come over to
the house. I'll cook yousomething. It's a way to share
myself and to share stories. AndI think that started because you
(12:46):
know, if you read if you'vewatched enough Anthony Bourdain,
if you listen to Jose, Andreas,if you do at XYZ things if you
have a restaurant you love forme, like it's that kind of idea
behind everything is infectious.
And I'm curious why you and Idon't share the same
(13:06):
relationship with food. And Iwanted to ask you, do you think
your relationship with foodchanged when you were sick? No.
Okay.
Harry Weidner (13:17):
No, I think that my relationship with food
changed. When I started taking,I really do when I started
taking my health more seriously.
And when I started thinking,like, I like exercising, and I
like working out and I want tomaximize that. Because there was
no that might Yeah, there there.
(13:41):
The gap between my illness andthere was a large gap. There was
a big gap. And so I don't thinkthat really played into it all
that much.
Jack Weidner (13:56):
But so then my my other Oh, go ahead, I'll
Harry Weidner (13:59):
give you
Jack Weidner (14:01):
pretty sure because I Okay, um, I was gonna
ask like what your relation. SoI talked a lot about how food
for me is a very, it's aboutcommunity as much as it is the
art of cooking itself and whoyou're feeding and where those
ingredients are coming from. Tome, I look not to get really
like, you know, just whatever.
But um, the dinner table isalmost like a very sacred place
(14:23):
for lack of a better term whereI love, like surrounding myself
with different people andtalking to them. What is the
dinner table to you? What likewe just had a family meal. You
said you were tired and annoyedthe whole time like what does it
mean to sit down with people? Doyou sit down with people a lot
with that relationship with foodthat you're just like yeah,
(14:43):
nutrients and my
Harry Weidner (14:46):
I don't sit down with people a whole lot. And I
don't know if that is the natureof my situation where I am right
now. But I don't do that and Idon't think about food the way
you do. at all, as far as thedinner table being a place to
connect with people, I canappreciate that and and I
(15:08):
understand that. And I valuethat to a certain degree. But
the food again takes sort of aback a back burner role.
Jack Weidner (15:21):
Well, I think we're uniquely situated that our
family already positions so mucharound food. Yeah, we always
collect in the kitchen. There'salways food out. That is there
is an app like we do andApostolos like no one's
business, you know. And we like,it was like, oh, let's sit while
(15:42):
we finish up cooking the adultswho have a glass of wine. Now we
have a glass of wine. Like thatis all I think, very collected
around food. We always havebread in the house, there's
always a boom, we'll just getout, you know, the gorgonzola
cheese will have this. And it'sjust like, we're going to sit
we're going to talk. Like, yeah,we had 60 different
conversations in that kitchenbefore Thanksgiving, I think.
(16:03):
But that was also around food.
And our family, and I will saylike, being introduced to other
people's families, I don't thinkthey do that. I think we're kind
of I feel lucky to have had thatexperience growing up.
Harry Weidner (16:19):
I agree with that. I guess I just don't think
about it the way that you thinkabout it. Yeah,
Jack Weidner (16:26):
I guess because like I look at the food is
bringing people in, you know,it's like, I think food is very
powerful in the human psyche.
Like, if you want to cheersomeone up, you know, what do
you feed them. If you want toshow someone you love, you give
them food, if you want to helpsomeone survive, you nourish
them with XYZ thing, if you wantto hurt someone in like a very
(16:46):
serious sense, you deprive themof food, you know, food is a
very powerful thing. You caninsult someone with the food
that you make, you know, likeknowings if someone if someone's
gluten free, and then you make awhole meal, and you have nothing
for them, like that hurts thembecause you've somehow insulted
(17:07):
who they are as a person and howthey eat. You know, and I think
it's like just something that Ithink about where you can try so
hard to accommodate everyone,which I think we're very lucky
because our family does, youknow, it's just like everyone's
welcome in the kitchen, comethrough, you know, we're gonna
have food for my gosh, when wewere kids, mom would cook for
like, 60 people, there'd bethree of us. And it's like, you
(17:30):
feel very comfortable invitingyour friends over because you
know, Mom's gonna make enoughfood. Like, come on.
Harry Weidner (17:37):
Yeah, she did.
She always over cooks. And
Jack Weidner (17:41):
now I over cook, which is a pain. Yes, but
anyways, I mean, that's adifferent thing.
Harry Weidner (17:47):
I love people who do that, like I'm sitting next
to a Tupperware that I that I'vehad to return for months. And
I'm sorry Ashlyn that I haven'tdone it yet. But I will bring
your Tupperware back from thebutternut squash pasta that
you've made, and it wasdelicious. That sounds so good.
So I appreciate those things. Ijust don't know. I
Jack Weidner (18:07):
mean, I don't think you have to, I just think
I can't look at food and notthink about that. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (18:13):
So I'm gonna ask you a question. Because I know
you think about it these days,especially is how do you balance
like the pleasure of eating withhealth considerations?
Jack Weidner (18:25):
This has been tough in something that I found
a little easier. And I think notto sound like old man screams at
cloud but I think social mediahas made this really hard.
Because on one hand, you havethese like very fit influencers
being like, you can't beconcerned about what you eat,
(18:46):
like you just have to like enjoyyour life, blah, blah, blah. And
my friend was saying like, Oh mygosh, this influencer went to
Italy. And she lost, you know,like 20 pounds and she wasn't
concerned about what she ate.
And I was like, you have tothink about this. You can't hold
yourself to that. You know,standard because Italy The
portions are smaller, they'rewalking more, you know, you're
(19:06):
eating different kinds of foodsand different kinds of
ingredients. Like if she didthat knock Austin Texas, like we
could have a conversation. Butyou know, it's like a different
thing. So I think I'm good and Isay that caveat because I don't
want what I'm about to say tocome off like annoying Yeah, but
I've really tried to focus onhow to use minimal ingredients,
(19:31):
fresh ingredients, and then I'mvery privileged in a position
that I can afford to do that.
But also just like thinkingabout what is healthy for me and
how to make that tastes good.
I've spent a lot of time playingwith how to cook vegetables make
this and that vegetarian. Idon't cook with butter anymore.
You know, I love to eat oliveoil. So it's like, is a not
(19:52):
focus on limiting myself as muchas I'm focused on How do I make
what I know is good for me tasteamazing with what I'm given. And
a book that really helped me dothat is called salt, fat acid
and heat by Sameen. Nos rat, I'msorry if I butchered her last
(20:15):
name, but it was just focusingon four different elements of
cooking, and how you can boilthat down and make everything
taste really good. You know,what kind of salt are you using
is a big thing. And you know,how do you roast veggies so that
they taste amazing, you know,brussel sprouts, people used to
boil them, and they were gross.
(20:36):
And now we roast them. Andthey're amazing. Yeah. And how
do you just play with simpleingredients to make simple
things taste awesome. Like youadd a little bit of lemon to
vegetables get out of here thatis delicious.
Harry Weidner (20:50):
And I think that's interesting that we've
come to the same. A similar endon that because I have I have my
meal. And my dinner. I'm notkidding. Almost every night is
quinoa, a vegetable and aprotein. And it's like, I could
Jack Weidner (21:07):
never eat the same thing every nice. But
Harry Weidner (21:09):
it's just like, so healthy. Yeah, it's, it's
easy, and it's quick. And I'veperfected my like, protein
recipe. Like if I'm doingchicken or turkey like I just
have it nailed down. And it's,it's as fresh as I can get it.
And minimally processed. I thinkthat's something I've been
(21:32):
thinking a lot about. Recently,like, yeah, reducing the
processing of my food. EvenYeah, even like a protein bar,
like I'm trying to go for lowerprocessing on that, because I
don't know, everything's told methat higher processed foods are
(21:54):
bad for you.
Jack Weidner (21:56):
We live in kind of a scary world where I think we
all know that a lot of the stuffwe eat is processed, it might
not be good for us. We don'tknow how it's impacting us yet.
And they're still gonna, likegive us like, really, you know,
highly processed stuff. But Idon't think we know how it's
impacting us. But we think Ithink we think we should stay
away from it. I don't know.
Yeah, it's interesting. Or thegrocery store, like organic
(22:17):
doesn't mean shit. But no, I,you know, like, where's the
middle ground? I have a lot ofgripes with organic but I was
just gonna say like your meal. Idon't mean to knock your meal.
Like it sounds delicious. And Ieat qinhuai A lot. Like I always
have Kangwon my pantry. I justdon't think I could eat the same
thing. This is why I can't getin the meal prepping. I can't
plan what I want to eat. OnFriday on a Tuesday. I just
(22:42):
can't. Because for me again,like food is still like even
though I want to eat healthy.
It's like, you know, what am Ifeeling like? Are we going to
celebrate? Like, what ifsomething comes up? Like what if
someone gets a promotion? Like,should I have them over? What's
their favorite meal? So I liketo keep it a little loose. I
plan meals like two days at atime. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (23:01):
I want to put out a disclaimer that like yes, I
used to be very like obsessiveabout how many calories I ate
and yada yada. But now I'm notlike I really don't care about
that. All that much. Like if ifit's someone's birthday, and
they're celebrate like I am. I'mnot like, dead set on eating all
this stuff. I know, oh my god.
Yeah, I love that's a veryGakken I before this podcast, we
(23:24):
just started. I love chocolatechip cookies more than anyone
else in the entire world.
Jack Weidner (23:33):
It's so annoying, because if you look at Harry,
especially after he's run a halfmarathon, you wouldn't look at
him and go, that man can putaway dozens and I mean, dozens
plural of chocolate chip cookiesin a single sitting. Yeah, like
you put cookies away like noone's business. I just
Harry Weidner (23:56):
hammered. I hammered happened. Mom sent me
home with food.
Jack Weidner (24:01):
I wanted something so bad. I
Harry Weidner (24:05):
erased that. I got back to box. And it was just
sitting on my counter. And I waslike delicate, very good. And I
inhaled it
Jack Weidner (24:14):
was awesome. This is our grandmother's carrot cake
that she makes and it's it's apretty good tag. Yeah. Okay,
anyways, while we're makingdisclaimers, I do want to talk
about the point of privilegethat I think and no one wants to
hear this, but I have to say itthe way we talk about food. And
I think what we take for grantedis we come from like, an extreme
(24:37):
point of privilege. It's like weall want to say don't eat
McDonald's. But for some people,they have that the way the
system works. They don't haveto, but that is an easy and like
economic decision that they canand there's this stigma against
canned vegetables, which reallydoesn't have that much. There's
(24:58):
not a lot If any significantnutritional difference between
fresh and canned, they've done alot of research into it, but I
think like to be able to belike, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go to
the grocery store. Fresh stuffis like, that's comes from an
incredible point of privilege.
And I think, you know, we needto, to help other people, I
think you need to erase thestigma, and then acknowledge,
and then see what can be donedifferently. You know, how do
(25:21):
you live your life? Or at leastbeing conscious of that? Yeah.
So that's very important to me.
Because, again, like, you can'tshare it, you know, it's like,
don't eat McDonald's. We havethere's an obesity epidemic in
this country, but it's like,what have we done as a society
to lead people towards that? Isthat their fault? Or is there a
much larger problem in thesystem? Yeah. And I think you
(25:43):
can't talk about food withoutthat being openly discussed.
Harry Weidner (25:48):
Thank you. I just bouncing off that one second.
Okay. You've heard about, like,semi glue ties, like ozempic.
Okay, how? Yeah. So how is thatgoing to change the entire
infrastructure of foodconsumption? If I don't know,
(26:10):
okay, I haven't actually thoughtabout it. And I just started
thinking about this, because Ithink it has massive public
health implications. And so ifyou reduce the rate of obesity
in the US by ozempic, and youreduce the cravings that people
have for these processed, highlyprocessed foods that are really
(26:31):
not healthy for you, whichozempic does, then you have less
cardiovascular disease, lessdiabetes, and then you have more
money to spend in the healthcaresector on preventative measures,
because you're not treatingthese chronic conditions like
diabetes and cardiovasculardisease. And so that helps
there. But also, how does thatchange the landscape of fast
(26:54):
food in America? Because fewerpeople are craving these
McDonald's or, you know, talkabout or things like that. And
then will that force them tooffer healthier options? Maybe?
Jack Weidner (27:10):
Yeah, I don't know. That's really interesting.
I think that the other part ofit that I'd be interested in is
the cost. Like, I think a lot ofpeople go to McDonald's, not
because they liked the taste asmuch as it might be cost
effective for them and
Harry Weidner (27:21):
their family.
Right. And long term I'd
Jack Weidner (27:24):
be curious to write I'd be curious to see long
term. how that changes. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (27:31):
So I was just thinking about that. And I think
that in the next 20 years, ifaccess to the semi blue tides
increases at a relativelyaffordable, that's
Jack Weidner (27:45):
my question, like, will the people that need it
have access to it, I guess, is apublic health question that I
have no knowledge of, but I'vejust, you know, in the history
that 10 The the people that needsome of the medicine most tend
to not have access, they're theones who can't
Harry Weidner (28:00):
get it. So I don't know. But I think that
there is to make change. I don'tknow why we're talking about
this right now. But to makechange. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (28:13):
If he was gonna be food, so this is okay,
Harry Weidner (28:15):
to make change.
On the policy level, you almostneed an economic incentive. And
I would say that the economicincentive of saving billions of
dollars in the healthcare sectorcould convince people to make
this drug easily accessible, sothat we reduce that burden.
(28:36):
Yeah,
Jack Weidner (28:39):
no, I think that that's a really good thing. I
think what I think the dangeris, and this is something that I
don't fully understand. But thethe lobbying ability, I think
what you're at is like, who canlobby more? Is there going to be
like, appealing to logic withhow much money you're gonna
(29:00):
spend on public health? Or is itgoing to be the incredible
amount of money that theagricultural industry has, like,
beef and the beef industry hasin this country and what the
fast food market can do andeverything, so I think that's a
really interesting thing. I'llbe excited to see what happens.
(29:21):
Yeah,
Harry Weidner (29:21):
I think the next 20 years, I think the next 20
years are gonna be reallyinteresting.
Jack Weidner (29:26):
I think the next 20 years is gonna be interesting
for a lot of reasons. Yes,certainly one of them. I wanted
to ask you so I taught I'vealluded to how I grocery shop,
and it drives people insane. Howdo you grocery shop i and then
I'll, I'll tell you.
Harry Weidner (29:40):
Every Sunday I go to Trader Joe's with Riley and
Aaron and sometimes Johnny and Iam so efficient. I don't think
anyone would be surprised thathow efficient I grocery shop
because I shocked I eat the samething, like every week, and so I
know exactly where the thingsare, and I know exactly what to
(30:02):
grab, and maybe I'll grabsomething fun that catches my
eye. But really like, I am inand out, you probably browse,
Jack Weidner (30:10):
or you're gonna tell I am the exact opposite.
Yeah.
Harry Weidner (30:14):
You're gonna tell me that you go a few times a
week. Yeah, and yeah, I do. Ifigured,
Jack Weidner (30:21):
I go with I go with a list. And I sent it. I
said, So what are the grocerystore with the list ones? It
said protein veggies, olive oil.
That was the list. Because I go,and I don't, I don't plan my
meals ahead of time I plan mymeals at the grocery store.
Because I like to see like, whatlooks good, because I don't like
(30:42):
being like, Oh, I'm gonna havebrussel sprouts tonight. And I
go there and the brussel sproutslook shitty. You're up creek
without a paddle? Right? Yeah,no, I know. I don't want that to
happen to me. If I go and I'mlike, Ooh, how does the eggplant
Look, maybe I can do somethingwith this. I know I have sauce
in my pantry. I can make like aquick. You know, like sauteed
eggplant, mix it with a littlesauce. I know, I always have
(31:05):
pasta. And then I'm likeplanning my meals at the grocery
store. And I'll go like a fewtimes. So like, I'll buy fish,
but I'll cook it that night.
Maybe keep a little frozen. Keepsome bread frozen. I like to
keep staples in my pantry. Ialways have garlic. And I always
(31:25):
have garlic and onions. Alwayshave garlic and onions and then
like a few staple things in mypantry like some grains, pasta.
And then I like to buy likeveggies and a meat onto a few
days at a time. It drives peopleBerserk because they're like,
What are we here for him? Like,I feel like it's like so like,
view? It's like, it'll I'll knowwhen it hits me. But it is
(31:49):
because it's like, you know,what, if you want to have fish
and they don't have fish,
Harry Weidner (31:54):
then what are you going to do? Then you don't know
if you have to pivot anyways. So
Jack Weidner (31:58):
I prefer Yeah, but I I prefer to not have to pivot
and just go in open mindedanyways. works.
Harry Weidner (32:06):
I guess what I've boiled this entire conversation
down to is that yeah, I don'tplace a high value on food,
because I place higher valueelsewhere. And that's not good
nor bad. But that's just no,it's I choose to spend my time
and energy. And so if I canoffload the time and energy that
I spend thinking about food, Ican put that somewhere else in
(32:29):
my life where I get morefulfillment, and you get a lot
of fulfillment out of food, andI get less.
Jack Weidner (32:36):
And I Yeah, and I put my money there. It's like
it's it's you know, you alwayssay you don't yuck someone
else's. Yeah, I think we need tostart doing that with how people
spend their time and money.
Because that's included in theuse. Now I know but not for a
lot of people because they'll belike, used to grocery shop at
this place that places two weeksblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(32:57):
They don't have blah, blah blah.
Harry Weidner (33:00):
No, I'm a big fan of just letting people live the
life that they want to live inyour life. Yeah, that's what
it's about. I want to ask youwhat is your guilty pleasure
food? Because I don't know theanswer to this.
Jack Weidner (33:13):
I don't even know if I know any more. Guilty
pleasure food. Oh, right nowit's definitely that new key
that I do with the gorgonzolacrate. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's
yeah, I started doing it withjust like, I'll like steam it
and gorgonzola or steam that thekey that I just like, for those
(33:34):
listening, my guilty pleasurefood is I take like, pre made
prepackaged gnocchi, and then Iwill saute it just like let it
kind of crisp up in a pan withsome olive oil. I will steam it
and a little bit of white wine.
Once it gets like crisp. Andthen I'll toss it with some
gorgonzola, crumbled cheese.
(33:56):
toss it all together. It's kindof like creamy, coats it and
then you can just like eat it.
Harry Weidner (34:01):
Yeah, really good. I will say it is very
good. And I like yeah, when youmake that pretty good. Is there
anything else that we shouldtalk about food wise?
Jack Weidner (34:12):
I don't know. I just got the coolest cookbook. I
went to see the author talk at acookbook event. This is so
nerdy. I'm gonna nerd out for asec. It's called portico and
it's called cooking and feastingand Rome's Jewish kitchen. And
this chef and cookbook author,went into Rome to the Jewish
(34:32):
into the historic JewishQuarter. And she learned about
the Jewish tradition of food andit has all these wonderful
recipes on how British Jewishcommunity that was really
isolated and I don't want to sayoppressed but they were cut off
from the main community andlooked at as lesser is very
common in minority stories, buthow they kind of thrived and a
(34:54):
lot of like the wonderful foodthat I think we think of with
Italian culture like Fried,mozzarella, fried artichoke, and
just like really great recipes,and they're all in here as as
well as the history of theJewish population in Rome. So
it's a really cool cookbook. Andthat's what I like about food.
(35:16):
You know, we get some greatrecipes that I can have people
over for like a Hanukkah meal.
And they can and then I also getto learn about whole culture
that I wasn't really familiarwith. So it's so cool. And she's
so cool. She's so nice. She saidmy book. Wow. And appetito Yeah,
so she was great. It's reallycool. Because like fried egg
(35:38):
plant is historically yummy. Shetalks about that being
historically Jewish, becauseit's a poor vegetable that the
Jewish population had access to.
So they fried it. People lovefried eggplant, that's an
Italian American staple. And I Ididn't know the history
beforehand, and you learn aboutit. It's so cool. And now you
(35:59):
know, it's awesome. The more youknowledge weighs nothing Carell,
you can
Harry Weidner (36:05):
thank you.
Jack Weidner (36:07):
Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, I think I got a nerd out
a little bit. All right. Thankyou for listening.
Harry Weidner (36:18):
Get it together.
All right.
Jack Weidner (36:22):
Thank you for listening and seeing how this
mess unraveled. Sorry fornerding out there at the end. I
don't know how much hair isgoing to keep but I hope it was
a little bit. If you have anyquestions, comments, concerns,
you want to talk about food withus. You want to be on an
episode, email us at our tangledminds@gmail.com You can also
(36:43):
text us but I really want anemail. Thank you to the people
that have emailed us. We'regonna do an email episode here
one day, and thank you so much.
to CMS continues
All right, welcome back to our tangled
minds.
Jack Weidner (00:09):
Welcome back to our tangled mind, Harry
Harry Weidner (00:11):
Weidner.
Jack Weidner (00:12):
I'm Jack Weidner and we're back
Harry Weidner (00:16):
after Thanksgiving.
Jack Weidner (00:18):
Woohoo, we
Harry Weidner (00:19):
had a great Thanksgiving
Jack Weidner (00:21):
uneventful.
Harry Weidner (00:21):
really honestly uneventful. Nothing too crazy
happened.
Jack Weidner (00:26):
Really all you can ask. Yeah, it
Harry Weidner (00:27):
was nice to come home. It was nice to come home.
I don't it had been a long timesince I was home. Like many,
many, many months, so it wasnice to go back. And now I'm
back in Boston, you say
Jack Weidner (00:41):
that, like you think you're better than me?
Think you're better than me?
Because you're up in Boston?
Harry Weidner (00:44):
No, no, no, no, no, no,
Jack Weidner (00:46):
you don't come home a lot. Well, it's
Harry Weidner (00:47):
just like it's far away. It's far. Oh, Mr.
Jack Weidner (00:51):
Big out of Towner coming home the grace of the
peasants with his presents. Wow.
Whoa, big Oh. Does it feeldifferent? Coming back to town
from the big city?
Harry Weidner (01:07):
No, it doesn't feel that. Yeah, it doesn't. It
doesn't feel different. It feelslike going home. My perspective
on going back is I always thinkit's going to be relaxing. And
then it's never relaxing.
Jack Weidner (01:20):
Our house is not relaxing at all. So
Harry Weidner (01:23):
it's absolutely chaotic. And I think the crazy
influx of everyone going back.
It's like there's this. There'sthis pressure to see people and
do all these things. And so it'snever relaxing. I think my life
is more relaxing here than it isback at home. But it is always
nice to go home. And I lovedseeing mom and I think she
appreciated the fact that wewere both home for the holiday.
(01:44):
And
Jack Weidner (01:46):
yeah, oh, it's great. Mom doesn't get to see us
both together a lot now or so.
Should we talk about what timewe ate Thanksgiving because that
was kind of nuts.
Harry Weidner (01:56):
Yeah, I mean, we
Jack Weidner (01:58):
started eating at nine o'clock at night.
Harry Weidner (02:00):
I was pissed. I don't I don't know if you can
tell. I thought I was reallycurious. I was.
Jack Weidner (02:05):
Yeah, you were like you were so like, sitting
next to you. You were so tense.
I was just tired when he you'relike, I want to eat these mashed
potatoes I don't want to go to
Harry Weidner (02:14):
I was so tired. I operate on different hours these
days. And the combination ofgoing to Philly, and then
staying up late every night.
Just didn't do me. Right. So Ineeded my routine and eating it.
Eating Thanksgiving dinner at9pm was just like the worst
thing that could have had well,not the worst thing but it was
(02:36):
it was not good. I didn't havefun.
Jack Weidner (02:39):
I never got the full story. Did we just not
thought the turkey or I don'tthink I
Harry Weidner (02:45):
don't think anyone thought it through. I
don't think anyone was like,Yeah, we should we should thaw
the turkey or? I don't know. Isthat what Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
And no one was in a hurrybecause I wasn't. Yeah, no one
was in a hurry to do anything.
Well,
Jack Weidner (03:03):
I mean, God forbid you're not in a hurry on things.
Well, here's like, if we'regonna do something we're gonna
do it right. We're gonna do aproper.
Harry Weidner (03:11):
I don't know, I don't think we should have eaten
at 9pm. But if we do that nextyear, I'll I
Jack Weidner (03:16):
thought it was nice. I thought it was casual.
No one was smooth that food was
Harry Weidner (03:20):
let's move that back, like three hours. Let's
move that up three hours.
Jack Weidner (03:26):
You can't have a non stressful I don't think I'm
I think if you move it up,people are stressed. Because no
one gets up as early as you do.
So then like, all that time, youhave to get up that much
earlier. And that makes peoplebe stressed. No. Do you put a
timeframe on it? No,
Harry Weidner (03:43):
if you prepare properly. It should be done on
time
Jack Weidner (03:50):
that you ask people to you asking our family
to prepare properly is not goingto happen that puts stress on I
don't
Harry Weidner (03:57):
know. We'll see how we'll see how Christmas
goes.
Jack Weidner (04:01):
Well, I'm cooking Christmas Eve. So well. What
Harry Weidner (04:03):
was this? What was this big thing about us
doing? It? We don't need to getinto it here but oh,
Jack Weidner (04:09):
we I can't even I and then you ask you ask follow
up questions. And she's like,well, we'll talk you know, I
don't know. We'll talk about itlater. It's like what do you
talk like me? You're changingthe whole thing. Well,
Harry Weidner (04:24):
so for everyone listening Welcome to our family
drama.
Jack Weidner (04:29):
Really is like I don't think we actually get
Harry Weidner (04:32):
what's happening at any given time. And and
that's what Jack and I areunpacking right now, but it was
nice to see you over break.
Anything and nothing interestingThanksgiving Eve. Not much to
debrief from their blackoutWednesday.
Jack Weidner (04:51):
Is that what they call? Yeah, some
Harry Weidner (04:52):
people call it blackout Wednesday. I don't
know. I think I'm over it. I'mdone.
Jack Weidner (04:58):
I had half awake clock
Harry Weidner (05:02):
Yeah, I
Jack Weidner (05:04):
I'm curious what you want to
Harry Weidner (05:05):
talk about food.
I don't have anything to talkabout. I thought you had things
to talk about because you likefood more than spoilers suggest
Jack and I are talking aboutfood today. Because we talked
about coffee last week. And andI thought it would be a good,
good idea to talk about food.
What that means I'm not quitesure. And find out. Yeah, I
(05:30):
always think of Jack is someonewho likes food and appreciates
food and likes cooking food andthinking about food. You had
your days where you were reallyobsessed with chefs and
Jack Weidner (05:40):
all of that. I still I still.
Harry Weidner (05:43):
You loved your cookbooks. And so I just kind of
wanted to still do talk aboutyour relationship with food.
Jack Weidner (05:52):
My relationship with food, I love food. I think
food is one of the best partsabout living.
Harry Weidner (06:01):
Okay, that's
Jack Weidner (06:02):
like full stop. I don't know. I mean, I think I
got it. I wanted to start. Idon't know why I always wanted
to start cooking. I mean, tolike, take it back to
Thanksgiving. I remember when Iwas a little kid, I always
wanted to be in the kitchen,with my mom making food. I was
wanting to help cook familymeals, especially Christmas Eve.
(06:23):
For those listening that don'tknow, our family does the
Italian American tradition ofthe Seven Fishes where you have
this huge time feast with pastasand different kinds of seven
different types of quoteunquote, fish, but it's really
just seafood. And I really Ijust wanted to help, you know, I
was obsessed, like mygrandmother has this box of old
(06:45):
recipes that were handed downand collected from different
friends. And it was just fun tobe in the kitchen. And that I
think when I was in high school,I started cooking more on my own
to the chagrin of my motherbecause I make a mess in the
kitchen. And my mother, if youuse the kitchen, my mom just
(07:05):
like it, she loses her mind. Shecan't handle pots being used.
You get a crumb somewhere. Andshe's like Jack Weidner. John
David, we do not eat in thishouse. And you're like, alright,
mom, like, I promise I'll cleanit up. And then like, so I
started to, you know, experimentwith things or start watching
videos. And we're at a reallygreat time in cooking right now
(07:28):
where you can go online andlearn a bunch of things about
cooking. And I read what reallytransformed my relationship with
food was reading this greatcookbook, but we can talk about
cookbooks later. And then I juststarted, you know, playing and
playing and now, I love food, Ilove to go out to eat. And
that's for a bunch of differentreasons. But what's your history
with you? We're never reallyinterested in the kitchen at
(07:48):
all. No, I'm
Harry Weidner (07:49):
completely uninterested in the kitchen. Not
to say that I don't like tocook, I did get into cooking,
like, over COVID A little morejust because I have nothing
better to do. But I think myrelationship with food for a
long, long, long time, that hasjust been like, How can I eat as
healthy as possible as quicklyas possible? And that that's
(08:12):
like, that's how I've built mycareer.
Jack Weidner (08:15):
When did that start? Why do you think that
started, I
Harry Weidner (08:17):
don't know, it started when i i So I would just
eat whatever. And then at somepoint, maybe in high school,
sophomore, junior year, itdoesn't matter. I got into
fitness and working out andeating healthy. And that sort of
set me off. Honestly, on an anunhealthy relationship with
(08:40):
food, I would do like measure mycalories and count my macros,
and that whole thing, and I hadthe kitchen scale, and I would
weigh everything out. And thatsort of transformed my
relationship with food to justvery transactional. And I'm
(09:01):
going to treat these as numbersand I have to hit you know, this
certain calorie count, and hitthe protein and taking whatever
and I don't know, it became toomechanical for me. And at some
point, I was like, Hey, yougotta stop this. Like, this is
getting almost obsessive. And sothen I had done that for such a
long time. That now I kind ofunderstand how many calories I
(09:24):
mean, because I don't think it'sa it's an unimportant thing to
think about. Like, I thinkshirts, it's good to know.
Jack Weidner (09:33):
There's validity to what you're eating. There's
it can be very healthy to knowwhat you're eating and what
kinds of calories you're intake.
Yeah. Or how many calories andwhat types of nutrients you're
in taking.
Harry Weidner (09:45):
I still maintain that. But then in college, my
diet became like meal prep, eatand then go on to the next thing
food became very like no passingthing. It was like How can I
quickly make of something
Jack Weidner (10:02):
you did to survive? You're like, I have to
wake up tomorrow, how do I eatfood,
Harry Weidner (10:07):
and it still in a way is like that I've I've
lasered in pretty mucheverything that I eat in a day
to be the healthiest, fastestand easiest thing to clean up.
And so very much unlike you. Ilike don't spend a lot of time
(10:32):
thinking about food.
Jack Weidner (10:34):
I think about food a lot I do. And I think for me,
one of the most obsessive thingsabout food is that I love
thinking about food as a meansof connection between people. I
was gonna ask you about thefood. Yeah, so fruit food for me
is not just, you know, likeputting things in my mouth.
It's, I think about the tastesthat I'm cooking with and how
(10:57):
this is going to play with thisand how you know, you need a
little bit of acidity, if you'regoing to do a little bit of
sweetness, or if you arecooking, little savory, maybe
add a little bit of sugar, likehow can I use nutmeg in a pasta
dish, which is all verytechnical and fun for my like,
science part of my brand orwhatever. But I think for me, it
just boils down to I lovecooking for people seeing that
(11:20):
reaction, getting to share atable with someone like it's a
means for conversation. I lovethinking about the cultural
aspects of food. Like I lovecooking Italian food. And I
think that stems from the factthat you know, our mother's
family is Italian and I grew upsurrounded by those recipes. But
I wanted to know the story ofit. And I wanted to know, how
(11:42):
were Italian immigrants changingthe way they thought about food
when they got to this country.
You know, a lot of people a lotof Italians in New York, when
they got here, they would ordersalt from the Mediterranean and
they'd have it shipped overbecause the salt in America
wasn't enough or you know, theidea of fresh produce, like the
way people center their lives oron food as it changes as they
(12:02):
move in as new ingredientsbecome available. And that
narrative is also veryinteresting to me. So I think
there's so many layers to food,there's the art of cooking,
there's the study of where whatyou're eating comes from,
there's the community aspect ofAre you are you going to the
farmers market, are you buyinglocal ingredients, and then
(12:23):
there's, you know, there's a lotof different things that I'm
obviously interested in withfood, like inequality, and, you
know, there's a lot of differentlayers that I can unpack. And I
think I think about food somuch, because when I'm, you
know, one of my favorites, youknow, if I'm gonna if I want to
talk to someone, oh, let's gohave a bite to eat, come over to
the house. I'll cook yousomething. It's a way to share
myself and to share stories. AndI think that started because you
(12:46):
know, if you read if you'vewatched enough Anthony Bourdain,
if you listen to Jose, Andreas,if you do at XYZ things if you
have a restaurant you love forme, like it's that kind of idea
behind everything is infectious.
And I'm curious why you and Idon't share the same
(13:06):
relationship with food. And Iwanted to ask you, do you think
your relationship with foodchanged when you were sick? No.
Okay.
Harry Weidner (13:17):
No, I think that my relationship with food
changed. When I started taking,I really do when I started
taking my health more seriously.
And when I started thinking,like, I like exercising, and I
like working out and I want tomaximize that. Because there was
no that might Yeah, there there.
(13:41):
The gap between my illness andthere was a large gap. There was
a big gap. And so I don't thinkthat really played into it all
that much.
Jack Weidner (13:56):
But so then my my other Oh, go ahead, I'll
Harry Weidner (13:59):
give you
Jack Weidner (14:01):
pretty sure because I Okay, um, I was gonna
ask like what your relation. SoI talked a lot about how food
for me is a very, it's aboutcommunity as much as it is the
art of cooking itself and whoyou're feeding and where those
ingredients are coming from. Tome, I look not to get really
like, you know, just whatever.
But um, the dinner table isalmost like a very sacred place
(14:23):
for lack of a better term whereI love, like surrounding myself
with different people andtalking to them. What is the
dinner table to you? What likewe just had a family meal. You
said you were tired and annoyedthe whole time like what does it
mean to sit down with people? Doyou sit down with people a lot
with that relationship with foodthat you're just like yeah,
(14:43):
nutrients and my
Harry Weidner (14:46):
I don't sit down with people a whole lot. And I
don't know if that is the natureof my situation where I am right
now. But I don't do that and Idon't think about food the way
you do. at all, as far as thedinner table being a place to
connect with people, I canappreciate that and and I
(15:08):
understand that. And I valuethat to a certain degree. But
the food again takes sort of aback a back burner role.
Jack Weidner (15:21):
Well, I think we're uniquely situated that our
family already positions so mucharound food. Yeah, we always
collect in the kitchen. There'salways food out. That is there
is an app like we do andApostolos like no one's
business, you know. And we like,it was like, oh, let's sit while
(15:42):
we finish up cooking the adultswho have a glass of wine. Now we
have a glass of wine. Like thatis all I think, very collected
around food. We always havebread in the house, there's
always a boom, we'll just getout, you know, the gorgonzola
cheese will have this. And it'sjust like, we're going to sit
we're going to talk. Like, yeah,we had 60 different
conversations in that kitchenbefore Thanksgiving, I think.
(16:03):
But that was also around food.
And our family, and I will saylike, being introduced to other
people's families, I don't thinkthey do that. I think we're kind
of I feel lucky to have had thatexperience growing up.
Harry Weidner (16:19):
I agree with that. I guess I just don't think
about it the way that you thinkabout it. Yeah,
Jack Weidner (16:26):
I guess because like I look at the food is
bringing people in, you know,it's like, I think food is very
powerful in the human psyche.
Like, if you want to cheersomeone up, you know, what do
you feed them. If you want toshow someone you love, you give
them food, if you want to helpsomeone survive, you nourish
them with XYZ thing, if you wantto hurt someone in like a very
(16:46):
serious sense, you deprive themof food, you know, food is a
very powerful thing. You caninsult someone with the food
that you make, you know, likeknowings if someone if someone's
gluten free, and then you make awhole meal, and you have nothing
for them, like that hurts thembecause you've somehow insulted
(17:07):
who they are as a person and howthey eat. You know, and I think
it's like just something that Ithink about where you can try so
hard to accommodate everyone,which I think we're very lucky
because our family does, youknow, it's just like everyone's
welcome in the kitchen, comethrough, you know, we're gonna
have food for my gosh, when wewere kids, mom would cook for
like, 60 people, there'd bethree of us. And it's like, you
(17:30):
feel very comfortable invitingyour friends over because you
know, Mom's gonna make enoughfood. Like, come on.
Harry Weidner (17:37):
Yeah, she did.
She always over cooks. And
Jack Weidner (17:41):
now I over cook, which is a pain. Yes, but
anyways, I mean, that's adifferent thing.
Harry Weidner (17:47):
I love people who do that, like I'm sitting next
to a Tupperware that I that I'vehad to return for months. And
I'm sorry Ashlyn that I haven'tdone it yet. But I will bring
your Tupperware back from thebutternut squash pasta that
you've made, and it wasdelicious. That sounds so good.
So I appreciate those things. Ijust don't know. I
Jack Weidner (18:07):
mean, I don't think you have to, I just think
I can't look at food and notthink about that. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (18:13):
So I'm gonna ask you a question. Because I know
you think about it these days,especially is how do you balance
like the pleasure of eating withhealth considerations?
Jack Weidner (18:25):
This has been tough in something that I found
a little easier. And I think notto sound like old man screams at
cloud but I think social mediahas made this really hard.
Because on one hand, you havethese like very fit influencers
being like, you can't beconcerned about what you eat,
(18:46):
like you just have to like enjoyyour life, blah, blah, blah. And
my friend was saying like, Oh mygosh, this influencer went to
Italy. And she lost, you know,like 20 pounds and she wasn't
concerned about what she ate.
And I was like, you have tothink about this. You can't hold
yourself to that. You know,standard because Italy The
portions are smaller, they'rewalking more, you know, you're
(19:06):
eating different kinds of foodsand different kinds of
ingredients. Like if she didthat knock Austin Texas, like we
could have a conversation. Butyou know, it's like a different
thing. So I think I'm good and Isay that caveat because I don't
want what I'm about to say tocome off like annoying Yeah, but
I've really tried to focus onhow to use minimal ingredients,
(19:31):
fresh ingredients, and then I'mvery privileged in a position
that I can afford to do that.
But also just like thinkingabout what is healthy for me and
how to make that tastes good.
I've spent a lot of time playingwith how to cook vegetables make
this and that vegetarian. Idon't cook with butter anymore.
You know, I love to eat oliveoil. So it's like, is a not
(19:52):
focus on limiting myself as muchas I'm focused on How do I make
what I know is good for me tasteamazing with what I'm given. And
a book that really helped me dothat is called salt, fat acid
and heat by Sameen. Nos rat, I'msorry if I butchered her last
(20:15):
name, but it was just focusingon four different elements of
cooking, and how you can boilthat down and make everything
taste really good. You know,what kind of salt are you using
is a big thing. And you know,how do you roast veggies so that
they taste amazing, you know,brussel sprouts, people used to
boil them, and they were gross.
(20:36):
And now we roast them. Andthey're amazing. Yeah. And how
do you just play with simpleingredients to make simple
things taste awesome. Like youadd a little bit of lemon to
vegetables get out of here thatis delicious.
Harry Weidner (20:50):
And I think that's interesting that we've
come to the same. A similar endon that because I have I have my
meal. And my dinner. I'm notkidding. Almost every night is
quinoa, a vegetable and aprotein. And it's like, I could
Jack Weidner (21:07):
never eat the same thing every nice. But
Harry Weidner (21:09):
it's just like, so healthy. Yeah, it's, it's
easy, and it's quick. And I'veperfected my like, protein
recipe. Like if I'm doingchicken or turkey like I just
have it nailed down. And it's,it's as fresh as I can get it.
And minimally processed. I thinkthat's something I've been
(21:32):
thinking a lot about. Recently,like, yeah, reducing the
processing of my food. EvenYeah, even like a protein bar,
like I'm trying to go for lowerprocessing on that, because I
don't know, everything's told methat higher processed foods are
(21:54):
bad for you.
Jack Weidner (21:56):
We live in kind of a scary world where I think we
all know that a lot of the stuffwe eat is processed, it might
not be good for us. We don'tknow how it's impacting us yet.
And they're still gonna, likegive us like, really, you know,
highly processed stuff. But Idon't think we know how it's
impacting us. But we think Ithink we think we should stay
away from it. I don't know.
Yeah, it's interesting. Or thegrocery store, like organic
(22:17):
doesn't mean shit. But no, I,you know, like, where's the
middle ground? I have a lot ofgripes with organic but I was
just gonna say like your meal. Idon't mean to knock your meal.
Like it sounds delicious. And Ieat qinhuai A lot. Like I always
have Kangwon my pantry. I justdon't think I could eat the same
thing. This is why I can't getin the meal prepping. I can't
plan what I want to eat. OnFriday on a Tuesday. I just
(22:42):
can't. Because for me again,like food is still like even
though I want to eat healthy.
It's like, you know, what am Ifeeling like? Are we going to
celebrate? Like, what ifsomething comes up? Like what if
someone gets a promotion? Like,should I have them over? What's
their favorite meal? So I liketo keep it a little loose. I
plan meals like two days at atime. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (23:01):
I want to put out a disclaimer that like yes, I
used to be very like obsessiveabout how many calories I ate
and yada yada. But now I'm notlike I really don't care about
that. All that much. Like if ifit's someone's birthday, and
they're celebrate like I am. I'mnot like, dead set on eating all
this stuff. I know, oh my god.
Yeah, I love that's a veryGakken I before this podcast, we
(23:24):
just started. I love chocolatechip cookies more than anyone
else in the entire world.
Jack Weidner (23:33):
It's so annoying, because if you look at Harry,
especially after he's run a halfmarathon, you wouldn't look at
him and go, that man can putaway dozens and I mean, dozens
plural of chocolate chip cookiesin a single sitting. Yeah, like
you put cookies away like noone's business. I just
Harry Weidner (23:56):
hammered. I hammered happened. Mom sent me
home with food.
Jack Weidner (24:01):
I wanted something so bad. I
Harry Weidner (24:05):
erased that. I got back to box. And it was just
sitting on my counter. And I waslike delicate, very good. And I
inhaled it
Jack Weidner (24:14):
was awesome. This is our grandmother's carrot cake
that she makes and it's it's apretty good tag. Yeah. Okay,
anyways, while we're makingdisclaimers, I do want to talk
about the point of privilegethat I think and no one wants to
hear this, but I have to say itthe way we talk about food. And
I think what we take for grantedis we come from like, an extreme
(24:37):
point of privilege. It's like weall want to say don't eat
McDonald's. But for some people,they have that the way the
system works. They don't haveto, but that is an easy and like
economic decision that they canand there's this stigma against
canned vegetables, which reallydoesn't have that much. There's
(24:58):
not a lot If any significantnutritional difference between
fresh and canned, they've done alot of research into it, but I
think like to be able to belike, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go to
the grocery store. Fresh stuffis like, that's comes from an
incredible point of privilege.
And I think, you know, we needto, to help other people, I
think you need to erase thestigma, and then acknowledge,
and then see what can be donedifferently. You know, how do
(25:21):
you live your life? Or at leastbeing conscious of that? Yeah.
So that's very important to me.
Because, again, like, you can'tshare it, you know, it's like,
don't eat McDonald's. We havethere's an obesity epidemic in
this country, but it's like,what have we done as a society
to lead people towards that? Isthat their fault? Or is there a
much larger problem in thesystem? Yeah. And I think you
(25:43):
can't talk about food withoutthat being openly discussed.
Harry Weidner (25:48):
Thank you. I just bouncing off that one second.
Okay. You've heard about, like,semi glue ties, like ozempic.
Okay, how? Yeah. So how is thatgoing to change the entire
infrastructure of foodconsumption? If I don't know,
(26:10):
okay, I haven't actually thoughtabout it. And I just started
thinking about this, because Ithink it has massive public
health implications. And so ifyou reduce the rate of obesity
in the US by ozempic, and youreduce the cravings that people
have for these processed, highlyprocessed foods that are really
(26:31):
not healthy for you, whichozempic does, then you have less
cardiovascular disease, lessdiabetes, and then you have more
money to spend in the healthcaresector on preventative measures,
because you're not treatingthese chronic conditions like
diabetes and cardiovasculardisease. And so that helps
there. But also, how does thatchange the landscape of fast
(26:54):
food in America? Because fewerpeople are craving these
McDonald's or, you know, talkabout or things like that. And
then will that force them tooffer healthier options? Maybe?
Jack Weidner (27:10):
Yeah, I don't know. That's really interesting.
I think that the other part ofit that I'd be interested in is
the cost. Like, I think a lot ofpeople go to McDonald's, not
because they liked the taste asmuch as it might be cost
effective for them and
Harry Weidner (27:21):
their family.
Right. And long term I'd
Jack Weidner (27:24):
be curious to write I'd be curious to see long
term. how that changes. Yeah.
Harry Weidner (27:31):
So I was just thinking about that. And I think
that in the next 20 years, ifaccess to the semi blue tides
increases at a relativelyaffordable, that's
Jack Weidner (27:45):
my question, like, will the people that need it
have access to it, I guess, is apublic health question that I
have no knowledge of, but I'vejust, you know, in the history
that 10 The the people that needsome of the medicine most tend
to not have access, they're theones who can't
Harry Weidner (28:00):
get it. So I don't know. But I think that
there is to make change. I don'tknow why we're talking about
this right now. But to makechange. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (28:13):
If he was gonna be food, so this is okay,
Harry Weidner (28:15):
to make change.
On the policy level, you almostneed an economic incentive. And
I would say that the economicincentive of saving billions of
dollars in the healthcare sectorcould convince people to make
this drug easily accessible, sothat we reduce that burden.
(28:36):
Yeah,
Jack Weidner (28:39):
no, I think that that's a really good thing. I
think what I think the dangeris, and this is something that I
don't fully understand. But thethe lobbying ability, I think
what you're at is like, who canlobby more? Is there going to be
like, appealing to logic withhow much money you're gonna
(29:00):
spend on public health? Or is itgoing to be the incredible
amount of money that theagricultural industry has, like,
beef and the beef industry hasin this country and what the
fast food market can do andeverything, so I think that's a
really interesting thing. I'llbe excited to see what happens.
(29:21):
Yeah,
Harry Weidner (29:21):
I think the next 20 years, I think the next 20
years are gonna be reallyinteresting.
Jack Weidner (29:26):
I think the next 20 years is gonna be interesting
for a lot of reasons. Yes,certainly one of them. I wanted
to ask you so I taught I'vealluded to how I grocery shop,
and it drives people insane. Howdo you grocery shop i and then
I'll, I'll tell you.
Harry Weidner (29:40):
Every Sunday I go to Trader Joe's with Riley and
Aaron and sometimes Johnny and Iam so efficient. I don't think
anyone would be surprised thathow efficient I grocery shop
because I shocked I eat the samething, like every week, and so I
know exactly where the thingsare, and I know exactly what to
(30:02):
grab, and maybe I'll grabsomething fun that catches my
eye. But really like, I am inand out, you probably browse,
Jack Weidner (30:10):
or you're gonna tell I am the exact opposite.
Yeah.
Harry Weidner (30:14):
You're gonna tell me that you go a few times a
week. Yeah, and yeah, I do. Ifigured,
Jack Weidner (30:21):
I go with I go with a list. And I sent it. I
said, So what are the grocerystore with the list ones? It
said protein veggies, olive oil.
That was the list. Because I go,and I don't, I don't plan my
meals ahead of time I plan mymeals at the grocery store.
Because I like to see like, whatlooks good, because I don't like
(30:42):
being like, Oh, I'm gonna havebrussel sprouts tonight. And I
go there and the brussel sproutslook shitty. You're up creek
without a paddle? Right? Yeah,no, I know. I don't want that to
happen to me. If I go and I'mlike, Ooh, how does the eggplant
Look, maybe I can do somethingwith this. I know I have sauce
in my pantry. I can make like aquick. You know, like sauteed
eggplant, mix it with a littlesauce. I know, I always have
(31:05):
pasta. And then I'm likeplanning my meals at the grocery
store. And I'll go like a fewtimes. So like, I'll buy fish,
but I'll cook it that night.
Maybe keep a little frozen. Keepsome bread frozen. I like to
keep staples in my pantry. Ialways have garlic. And I always
(31:25):
have garlic and onions. Alwayshave garlic and onions and then
like a few staple things in mypantry like some grains, pasta.
And then I like to buy likeveggies and a meat onto a few
days at a time. It drives peopleBerserk because they're like,
What are we here for him? Like,I feel like it's like so like,
view? It's like, it'll I'll knowwhen it hits me. But it is
(31:49):
because it's like, you know,what, if you want to have fish
and they don't have fish,
Harry Weidner (31:54):
then what are you going to do? Then you don't know
if you have to pivot anyways. So
Jack Weidner (31:58):
I prefer Yeah, but I I prefer to not have to pivot
and just go in open mindedanyways. works.
Harry Weidner (32:06):
I guess what I've boiled this entire conversation
down to is that yeah, I don'tplace a high value on food,
because I place higher valueelsewhere. And that's not good
nor bad. But that's just no,it's I choose to spend my time
and energy. And so if I canoffload the time and energy that
I spend thinking about food, Ican put that somewhere else in
(32:29):
my life where I get morefulfillment, and you get a lot
of fulfillment out of food, andI get less.
Jack Weidner (32:36):
And I Yeah, and I put my money there. It's like
it's it's you know, you alwayssay you don't yuck someone
else's. Yeah, I think we need tostart doing that with how people
spend their time and money.
Because that's included in theuse. Now I know but not for a
lot of people because they'll belike, used to grocery shop at
this place that places two weeksblah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(32:57):
They don't have blah, blah blah.
Harry Weidner (33:00):
No, I'm a big fan of just letting people live the
life that they want to live inyour life. Yeah, that's what
it's about. I want to ask youwhat is your guilty pleasure
food? Because I don't know theanswer to this.
Jack Weidner (33:13):
I don't even know if I know any more. Guilty
pleasure food. Oh, right nowit's definitely that new key
that I do with the gorgonzolacrate. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's
yeah, I started doing it withjust like, I'll like steam it
and gorgonzola or steam that thekey that I just like, for those
(33:34):
listening, my guilty pleasurefood is I take like, pre made
prepackaged gnocchi, and then Iwill saute it just like let it
kind of crisp up in a pan withsome olive oil. I will steam it
and a little bit of white wine.
Once it gets like crisp. Andthen I'll toss it with some
gorgonzola, crumbled cheese.
(33:56):
toss it all together. It's kindof like creamy, coats it and
then you can just like eat it.
Harry Weidner (34:01):
Yeah, really good. I will say it is very
good. And I like yeah, when youmake that pretty good. Is there
anything else that we shouldtalk about food wise?
Jack Weidner (34:12):
I don't know. I just got the coolest cookbook. I
went to see the author talk at acookbook event. This is so
nerdy. I'm gonna nerd out for asec. It's called portico and
it's called cooking and feastingand Rome's Jewish kitchen. And
this chef and cookbook author,went into Rome to the Jewish
(34:32):
into the historic JewishQuarter. And she learned about
the Jewish tradition of food andit has all these wonderful
recipes on how British Jewishcommunity that was really
isolated and I don't want to sayoppressed but they were cut off
from the main community andlooked at as lesser is very
common in minority stories, buthow they kind of thrived and a
(34:54):
lot of like the wonderful foodthat I think we think of with
Italian culture like Fried,mozzarella, fried artichoke, and
just like really great recipes,and they're all in here as as
well as the history of theJewish population in Rome. So
it's a really cool cookbook. Andthat's what I like about food.
(35:16):
You know, we get some greatrecipes that I can have people
over for like a Hanukkah meal.
And they can and then I also getto learn about whole culture
that I wasn't really familiarwith. So it's so cool. And she's
so cool. She's so nice. She saidmy book. Wow. And appetito Yeah,
so she was great. It's reallycool. Because like fried egg
(35:38):
plant is historically yummy. Shetalks about that being
historically Jewish, becauseit's a poor vegetable that the
Jewish population had access to.
So they fried it. People lovefried eggplant, that's an
Italian American staple. And I Ididn't know the history
beforehand, and you learn aboutit. It's so cool. And now you
(35:59):
know, it's awesome. The more youknowledge weighs nothing Carell,
you can
Harry Weidner (36:05):
thank you.
Jack Weidner (36:07):
Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, I think I got a nerd out
a little bit. All right. Thankyou for listening.
Harry Weidner (36:18):
Get it together.
All right.
Jack Weidner (36:22):
Thank you for listening and seeing how this
mess unraveled. Sorry fornerding out there at the end. I
don't know how much hair isgoing to keep but I hope it was
a little bit. If you have anyquestions, comments, concerns,
you want to talk about food withus. You want to be on an
episode, email us at our tangledminds@gmail.com You can also
(36:43):
text us but I really want anemail. Thank you to the people
that have emailed us. We'regonna do an email episode here
one day, and thank you so much.
to CMS continues
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