Episode 23: Trauma Dump

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Harry Weidner (00:00):
Hey everyone, Harry here, and I just finished

(00:09):
listening to the entire episode.
But I wanted to put a quickdisclaimer out, because
throughout the episode, Jack andI both get quite vulnerable and
a little bit volatile. Buttoward the end, as you'll hear,
we come to some sort of resolve.
And that's the point of this. Wecan have difficult conversations

(00:35):
and we can still learn from eachother. So if you're not
interested in something that'sdifferent than what we normally
do, sit this one out. But if youwant to hear how Jack and I
really do learn from each other,even after some, some heated
debate, stick around and withoutfurther ado, enjoy the rest of

(00:58):
the episode. All right, welcomeback to our tangled minds.
Welcome

Jack Weidner (01:04):
to our tangled mind.

I'm Harry Weidner.

I'm Jack Weidner.
No

you're not,

no jack, and I'm ready to exotic

episode 23. The big two three, gag and I truly
honestly haven't talked in along time. So we're just going
to catch up. But we're this isjust going to be us catching up.
And you're going to have to dealwith it.

I'm sorry, people we didn't I it's been a it's
been a rough day.

Well, that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
If you're okay with talkingabout it. Why hasn't? Why hasn't
been a rough two weeks for you?

I don't even know.
There's a lot going on. Not evenin my life just in the world.
And that's been a lot dealingwith like just like, wish,

so I knew Jack was going through it when I
texted him on Monday. And I saidwhat do you want to talk about
this week? Like we got to recordthe podcast on Friday? What do
you want to chat about? And hesaid, and what? Yeah, bring it
up. What did you say?

No, no, go ahead.
Go ahead. And

you said something about Doom or
impending doom.

And then it was it had to do with what I was
listening to. On Monday, I waslistening to the daily but I
wasn't even know it wasn't thedaily. I was I must have been
listening to the New Yorker.

And so you said impending doom and I said what
impending doom? Oh, yeah, I

was listening to the New Yorker podcasts on the
dilemma of the Israel Hamas war.
So I was down in the dumps.

But I feel like you've been down in the dumps
about worldly of and I get it. Iunderstand. It's hard to not be
down in the dumps about worldlyevents. But I think that you let
that affect you so deeply.

It just in my from my perspective. I'm a short man.
Let's start there. Okay, let'sstart with my height. So my four
eight on a good day Shut up. I'mvery small. Okay. I do not have
the tenacity of a cockroach. Sothis idea that we are small and

(03:26):
mighty, not in my lexicon. Andlike, we there's this idea that
we're just told to wake up, andyou know, do our darn toute NIST
every day, and one day you'lldie? And yes, apathy is not a

(03:47):
good thing. But my God, like whyam i What are we doing here? We,
you know, we talk like there'sthis is gonna be depressing
episode. I'm sorry. You. Yeah,I'd love to make jokes. And I do
like, I want to make jokes. ButI think yeah, like, Okay, so

(04:11):
let's, let's take let's takethis for example. How long have
you and I've been hearing aboutclimate change?

years? 10s of years. You're like our whole
life.

Our whole life.
You remember those WorldWildlife Fund? commercials where
they show the polar bears on theice caps? Yeah. What has been
done about nothing? Nothing.
Nothing. Our government hasn'tdone a goddamn thing about that.
Yeah. And they want me to likejust be like, Yes, this is fine.

(04:45):
What world are we going into?
Like? It's like, I'm so short.
And so small, both in statureand metaphysical significance.
What What is going on? What whathow could I not get depressed
about this? I literally, I can'tI don't eat, you know, I'm, I'm

(05:09):
basically vegetarian. I reuse,like I try I do my best to help
the planet in ways that I can't.
I want to get electric car blah,blah, blah, right? What about
this thing? I can't do anything,but you can do your best. I'm
doing my best, right? But theproblem is my best is painfully

(05:29):
not enough. And other people whocan do more aren't doing their
best. So why do we show up anddo our best? I feel like this is
like, why old people are likeGen Z doesn't have a work ethic.
And then Gen Z is like you gaveus no world to work with. And
it's like, yeah, like I get Iget both sides of that. But I

(05:49):
do. I

don't think that behavior is new, though. I think
that older generations have beensaying the next generation has
fought for years. Yeah.

But then the greatest generation went it was
it the greatest the greatestgeneration, whoever what what is
what are the generations foughtin World War One, and then the
next one fought in World WarTwo. So they did rise to a
challenge. I just like I don'tthese these challenges that we
are facing are not ones. Well,World War One is actually a kind

(06:24):
of what we're once addressing tome, because it feels I keep
bringing up ideas that werebrought up in World War One, the
idea of monotony the idea of,you know, the factory input as
like, you know, like, we arejust chess pieces on board.
Because if you think about WorldWar One, it had no purpose. The

(06:48):
only thing that accomplished wasWorld War Two.

I mean, so that's the case with a lot of wars.

Right? So like, like this idea. I think we're
we're one is very apt because wehave larger players at hand,
let's call them the, let's callthem monarchs, controlling for
petty things. You know, likefighting wars for petty things.

(07:19):
People like us just die inmasses. And then at the end,
they're just like, well, we'resick of it. But we're like we
go. We're in the trenches, doingtheir work, for pettiness. And I
feel like that's very apt tothese kinds of things, where

(07:41):
it's like, the people that canmake these decisions won't
necessarily deal with therepercussions. I don't know to
what extent you and I, given ourprivilege in this world will
deal with the immediaterepercussions. But there are
people who are dealing withrepercussions right now. And
eventually we'll catch up withus. And that is what leads me

(08:03):
into this whole Doom mindset.
Not even to mention the politicsof this. We have to relive 2020,
which I don't know if I need toremind you wasn't the best year
globally. That wasn't like, Oh,God take me back in there. 2008
the world's on No, we 2020 waslike here is the worst. do with

(08:24):
it what you will?

And yet, we're still here.

Barely. What do you read? What? What kind of
quiet? What kind of,

I hate why we're here we are. How much I want to
ask you. This was a question Iwanted to ask you. You spend a
lot of time in this doommindset. But how much time do
you spend in a gratitudemindset?

How often do I spend in a gratitude mindset? I
never, I think I'm very gratefulfor very specific things. You
know, I'm surrounded by books,that is a blessing. i The other
day, I just I looked at mycoworker. And I said, I just

(09:12):
feel really lucky that we livein a world with all of these
incredible ideas and, and bookslike a hand. I I'm incredibly
grateful for our mother all thetime. I'm grateful for our
mother, our family. Theupbringing that we had, which
you know, by conventionalstandards is broken. We come

(09:37):
from a broken home, but Ithought we were very grateful
for that I'm grateful for thefood that I made. And I do I
take that time to reflect everyday. I do take the time to
reflect that I'm grateful everyday. Yeah, the problem with that

(09:58):
is my personal gratitude doesnot make the imposing
cataclysmic event though I thinkwe're all feeling go wet.
Because like, I can be verygrateful for family. And I can

(10:23):
be very grateful for theposition that I'm in. And then
people say, Well, do you wantkids? And then boom, right?
Like, glass shatters, like, I'mgrateful for family, and then
glass shatters, do I want my ownfamily? What worldwide? Why

do you let Why do you let that shatter your glass?

Because I think to me, you have to acknowledge the
problems for it to be anauthentic decision to live
without acknowledging thosethings. And the very real
consequences of them, I think,is artificial. And I think it's
false. I don't love I'm notperpetuating this mindset, or

(11:01):
advocating for I'm certainlyperpetuating it in my life. But
I'm not advocating for the thislike complete nihilistic Doom,
right? Like, we you say, Aren'tyou thankful we're here. And I
say we are here. And I thinkthose are two very different
things.

What is what would you say? Your, because I
think you and I are on oppositeends of the spectrum. We are
what is your emotional home? Oh,really? Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. My
emotional. Yeah. What's youremotional home? Like, what is
this time? What is the state ofmind that you spend the most
time?

You're really sarcastic? Um, I don't know.
Probably a little bit moreMaillot melancholic.

Yeah, what about No, I, I default to happy, I
default to feeling veryempowered, and like a winner.
And like, I can sort ofaccomplish my goals. And I think
that that's kind of how I copewith this impending doom. And

(12:14):
this cataclysmic event thatyou're talking about, whatever
that might be, but I, if I haveto feel a certain way, I choose
to feel happy. Because thatgives me a lot of the power to

(12:36):
be able to control my life andwhat I'm seeing

the benefit of feeling sadness.

I do it but you know, it's like, there is
benefit in seeing sadness andfeeling sadness. But that should
not be my emotional home, I seeno benefit in that being where I
spend most of my time. I spend,you know, I do spend a lot of

(13:08):
time thinking about Alright,what's the worst thing that can
happen here? You know, that's aquestion I asked myself all the
time.

And what is your answer to that? Because I feel
like you and I would havedifferent

what? What's it like? What's the worst thing
that can happen in my life?
You're

in New York City for the day. What's the worst
thing that could happen?

Yeah, I worry about our mother dying all the
time. I

worry about that, too. I worry about that, too.
That's like a very, I have twoworst case scenarios, our mother
dying, and the place that I likeAmerica being used. And those
two lives separately in my head.
Yeah.

But you know, it's like and so what happens if
that happens? I don't know.
Right? And that but but, butaccepting that it's going to be
okay, and things are going to beare you kidding me? Yeah, no,
I'm not

what we're we're we're we're we're way, way way.
Okay. I was gonna follow you. Iwas gonna go on this journey. If
Washington DC is if somethinghappens to Washington, I'm not

talking about being nude. You're just like,
we're gonna be okay. Jack. Youjust kind of have to accept it
for what it is. That's

not exactly accepting for what it is. That's
not like what do you have to begrateful for today? That's not
like, what we're here that'sthat's ridiculous that like this
idea of like, you have no like,that's, that is an outrageous
thing to tell you to say tosomeone. It's outrageous to be

(14:40):
to have what I will acknowledgeyou shouldn't live in fear that
Washington, something's going tohappen to Washington DC. I will
say it is getting harder andharder to stop thinking about
certain things like that givenIn this state of the world, but

(15:04):
to be like, it's going to beokay is ridiculous.

Why? Why is that a ridiculous thing? It's
accepting what happens. Andusing that

there's not there's not always a positive. I
think this is this is what'sinteresting to me. I am not
always interested in finding thepositive in the situation,
because I don't always think itexists. I think that there are
that there might be silverlining, that there could be good
stemming from the bad. But Idon't think that to like to make

(15:36):
your line of sight, but positiveat the end of it is a healthy
mindset.

And on the flip side, I don't think your mindset
of focusing on the negativeaspects of everything, and
dwelling in your doom, andruminating is productive.

Oh, it's certainly not productive.

And I frankly, don't think that's healthy. It's

it's not healthy.
And I think the danger, there'sa great danger in it, because it
would stop. If we were presentedwith the opportunity to let's
say, Save climate change. Andthe person that is going to save
it is now has reached the pointof apathy where they are just
numb to everything and theydon't go do it. That's a bad

(16:23):
thing. It's very bad. Yeah,that's terrible. But I don't
write I got this is gonna get sonihilistic. I just like, I love
talking with people that have apot, like,

why would you not have a positive mindset?

What is there to be truly like, Okay, so we're
going to focus personally, and Iwant to, I want to like,
acknowledge that there is a lotto be happy about. From a
personal standpoint, we havelove, we are blessed to have the
family that we do have. Let's gomacro.

Let's, let's do that how much your macro isn't
your daily life?

Yeah, but how much I guess your, your

micro versus macro micro is your daily life,
your micro is what should beinfluencing how you're feeling.
And that's not to say, don'tthink about the macro. But
that's to say, really appreciatethe things that you have, and
the control you have in your ownlife and focus on those things.
So that you can handle themacro, don't let what happens,

push your macro invade your micro, because you
and I are speaking from a placewhere that hasn't happened that
is happening all over the place,the macro invading the micro,

then you have to reassess. But But then, I mean,
why would you spend all dayworrying about the macro
invading your micro when yourmicro frankly is incredible. I
mean, where does that get you?

I I will acknowledge that I don't think
it gets you anywhere. I thinklike what this episode's going
to be, is you and I coming at itfrom these these two extremes,
where I don't think wenecessarily live. I mean, I
think that there are people ondifferent spectrums. But what I

(18:31):
wanted to have this conversationfor is I think it is so
important for these two sides,where I think people are
establishing camps toacknowledge that there are
positives and negatives to bothof these and both of them are
valid at different points.

Okay, it

because it's absolutely asinine. For people
to be like, well my micros, likethat kind of thinking is that
idea of kicking the can down theroad.

But kicking the can down the road.

What are you talking about? Of course it is
living with the micro and justbeing like, this is great Jack,
but oh my

god, I'm going to school for public health. In one
way. Is my micro not kickingyour down the road. My micro is
working toward a more equitablefuture.

You're in college right now. You have no policy
experience. You have not spoken.
I

have learned and I work in. Please do.

What have you done to help make healthcare better
and we are

working on something that funds telehealth
to increase health equity. Thisis for a department of state a
State Department of Health Inwhat way? Does that not help?

I have, I'm not saying it doesn't help anyone.
I'm just saying you have tounderstand that the like, the
health care problem in thiscountry has been kicked down the
road by people saying this isgood enough. And then stopping.
I'm not going to stop you,right? But that's you looking at

(20:25):
the macro problem. I'm notlooking at down the road. No,
no, but this idea of you're nothappy with that you're not happy
with no,

but I'm working toward being able to

write, but that doesn't have to do with you
being like,

what am I grateful for? Yes, it does.

What what, how?
Explain to me how I

am incredibly happy with my day to day and
working towards this goal ofbeing able to change the
healthcare landscape. But

you haven't changed like. Okay, all right,
what we're what we're discussingright now, is this idea of, if
you help one person, have youhelped the world?

No, Jack, Harry,

is, you know what, you know what, if you think
you're going to change thehealthcare system in this
country, something that no onehas been able to do in a
Congress that has not passed abill. And God knows how long
that they won't touch anything.
If you think you're going tochange the healthcare system. I

(21:39):
will literally get on camerasomehow, and eat a pair of
jeans.

I literally think that the health care system will
be changed because of the futureof people going into health
care. Yes. And why not adoptivego? Why not? Why not adopt that
positive mindset? Jack? Thereare 400 students in the school
of fucking public health, in myschool of public health that
want to work toward a moreequitable health care future.

(22:11):
Are you telling me that nobodyis going through that and
nobody's working toward it? Whydo you spend so much time being
negative? Why not be positiveabout these?

I think you refuse to acknowledge that there are
barriers in place to stop thatfrom happening. But it's

these it's the existence of these barriers,
that allows you to create, youcan't you can have creative
solutions to these barriers,Jack, it's new people coming in,
it's coming in at differentperspectives. Why not use those
barriers as something to driveyou to be able to get over them?
That should be the mindset thatpeople should have about these

(22:52):
things. If change is ever reallygoing to happen? Why are you
adopting this apathetic mindsetwhere you're saying, oh, there's
a barrier, it's never gonnahappen. That's not what I'm
saying exactly what you'resaying.

I am saying it is important to acknowledge that
there, it's not as easy aswaking up giving God 100 I

say it was going to be like, let's get this
Harry,

that is your mindset to how you live your
life. You wake up and you'relike, Let's attack this head on.
Sure. But it's not easy. It'sno, and sometimes it doesn't
work. You okay. And then, andthen shape, the

way that you're attacking it differently. Until
it does work chat, like,

sometimes it does cap and gap that's important for
you to understand.

It, that's simply not true, then you're not trying
hard enough. And you're notworking at it from

the writing that you you telling people that
they're not trying hard enough.
Is such a toxic mindset. Somepeople have tried and tried and
tried and tried. And sometimesthere are things in life that
just like, I just think then,okay, then Jack, let's,

why should Why should I even care? Why should I
know? Why are there 1000s ofdollars going into public health
right now?

There's how many people in the United States?
Sorry,

I don't know a lot. Many.

I think it's like 350 million. All right. You just
said 1000s of people going intopublic health. Go tell a nurse
that there's not a healthshortage. I

acknowledge that there are these challenges, but
I'm also incredibly hopeful thatthe future generations will be
able to tackle them. I amoptimistic about the future. And
I'm so sorry that you're not I'm

just sick of the like this blind optimism. It's
not blind. And What in God'sname? Do you have to be like?
Yeah, this isn't blind

Jack public health has had incredible
successes.

Yes, healthcare has gotten better now

now is the best now is unarguably The best time
to be alive. And it's importantto remember that it is, Your
Honor. So there have beensuccesses. And yes, there have
been challenges, but who's tosay that we can't work toward a
better future? And who hasaccess to health care? I know
there's inequitable access tohealth care, but who's to say
that I shouldn't be workingtoward increasing that access?

(25:36):
And these people are rich? No,Jack, that that is such a that
is such a defeating mindset tohave. Yes, it

is defeated. It is it is.

And so now I see

where we where we wait, wait, it's defeated. But
is it realistic?

I think it is just as unrealistic as my sort
of unrelenting, positiveperspective. Why

is it more? Why is it just as unrealistic? Because

why would I even try them?

That's, I think that's the most that this is
what I'd love to talk with youabout? Why do we try? And it is,
I think it has to stem from what

are you? What are you trying for right now?

Yeah, I mean, I would love for the world to be a
better place. I would love formore equitable everything, and

how are you working toward that?

Well, um, I donate to a lot of charitable causes.

Okay, philanthropy short, how are you
Jack Weidner? Working towardsthat?

Well, I used to work with people from like, So
Hank Green always says the bestway to attack like, the like the
world's a mess is not an oak.
Like, that's not like a goodgoal, right. So you chose
healthcare. And I really likeeducation. So I was working with

(27:20):
Upward Bound, which is thiswonderful organization, best
place I've ever worked. And youwork with children from
underprivileged backgrounds, andfirst generation college
students to help them get intocollege. And I think that was
something that was verymeaningful, I had to stop,

(27:42):
because I needed a job that Icould have health insurance
with, and a paycheck where Icould live and buy groceries.
And then, as I've been trying toget back into education, people
say, Why would you go oneducation, there isn't pay,

(28:03):
which is true. The kids areterrible, which is such a basic
and terrible, like, it's anoversimplification. And we've
watched higher education becompletely just like D. valued
and destroyed at the upperechelons of the world, and this

(28:27):
country, certainly. And now Italk to people, and they're
like, well, we're not eventrying to pretend like we're
going to want our we're not evenencouraging our kids to go to
college, because they can'tafford it. And they won't do
well, because they don't havethe support system at home. So,

(28:50):
yeah, so I guess what I'm sayingis, I've, you know, you do
things and then real life setsin, and then you try to do other
things and that real life setsin. So it's just like, you
constantly trying, trying,trying? And then, you know, you
watch life kind of beat thatdown. And then you say, how much

(29:11):
more can you keep trying?
before? So like, Let's take, forexample. The student loan thing,
the forgiveness, yeah, thatwould have helped a lot of
people, right. Um, that wasactually one of the reasons that
I really wanted to go back tograd school because I'm like,

(29:33):
I'm not going to be in you know,X amount of debt. Sure. And that
just got stopped.

Yeah. Right. So you have let the external world
beat you down. Yeah. Anddiscourage you from doing what
you really want to do. Yep. AndI don't think that that's
healthy.

I haven't led it.
I'm still going to try to dothat. that's still my until

well, how can we take micro steps to where you're
working toward that goalactively? Do you have extra time
to be volunteering at a schoolnear you? Do you think that
would make a difference?

I volunteer how often? Once a week,

when's the last time you volunteered at the
library? Don't lie to me. Lastweek, let's good. Yeah.

And

so, I mean, I just think there are other steps
that you can be taking that,okay, I'll explain why I'm
saying this. Because, yes, Iunderstand that the healthcare
system is in shambles. But I goto school every day. And I'm
surrounded by people with smileson their faces, and ready to put

(30:51):
the work in. And that isincredibly motivated. Can

I ask you a question that I'm, I don't mean
this how like, what are thebackgrounds of the majority of
the people that you areinteracting with

all the totally diverse group of people? Right,
right,

we're right. But how many of them are coming from
the populations that you guysare trying to serve? Do you
know,

I don't know the number, but I'm sure we have
many students that are comingfrom disadvantaged backgrounds,
we have an entire programdesigned to get more more people
from disadvantaged backgroundsinto higher education. And I'm

sure yes, I'd be I see the numbers, and you know,
how that changes theirunderstanding.

I can say that I'm surrounded by people from
all walks of life in school, whodo go into class, acknowledge
the fact that things are bad,and still attack the day with a
smile on their face. And that isjust that is very motivating. Of
course, we talked about that. Do

you talk about No, no. Do you talk about like your
own backgrounds where you come?
Yeah,

every you know,

so you've met people that say like, you know,
I was that had like thosevarious backgrounds. Not like
coming. I'm not talking aboutlike, coming from like a
different country. I'm talkingabout Kim came from Johnstown.

I mean, yeah.
Like the, like the town I camefrom, what do you mean? No.

Like, I'm like that, like, kind of like, like,
came from poverty and are likeyou've met them have compensate?
Yes.

Yes. And those people are the most passionate
people. They say, I'm here towork toward a better future. And
that's motivating to me. Youknow, and that's, that's my
micro environment. shaping myview on how I can change my

(33:00):
macro environment. I just, Ihate to see you upset. Well,

I think I hate to not validate people. Do you
validate people when they'relike, on Instagram being like,
the, you know, this is terribleor whatever? No. Like, if
someone came? Why would you notVAT? Why would you not first
validate?

What do you like?
One? I can't get instagram, likeonce a day. Okay,

not I didn't mean Instagram, someone comes in the
cafeteria. And they're like,Dude, I just, I can't deal with
this election. If you know, soand so wins. It's just going to
be terrible. And I'm reallyscared.

Okay, yeah, it is scary. I'm not saying that. It's
not scary. Yeah, what I amsaying, is that

to actually, like, take a second to like, it's not
like, yeah, that's scary. Butlike, do you actually like, take
a second to sit with this personwhere they're,

like, let's say what you and all you're doing
right now. Right? But I thinkyou're doing a bad job.

Because you're you're what you're doing is
you're saying you don't have ahealthy outlook on life. And I
agree with you. I don't think myoutlook on life is particularly
healthy. And it doesn't help me.
It helps me identify challenges,and it helps me reflect on like,
it helps me feel like I have akind of like realistic

(34:41):
understanding of where thingsare. And it does get in my head.
But I, I am not saying it'shealthy. But I think where
you're saying is you'relistening to me and you'd be
like, This isn't good. You needto stop so like yeah, sure,
right. Everything sucks, but andI think too to truly connect
with someone, you need to say,that is terrible. And I'm so

(35:05):
sorry, Jack, I feel what do youneed? No, no, I'm just ratably

bad for you. And the way that you feel is

not about feeling.
It's not about feeling bath,it's about trying to understand
where that person is comingfrom. They are so far removed
from any kind of positiveoutlook, that there is there are
no blinds to let the light in.

(35:45):
And that I think, is we're somany people, maybe not our
friends, maybe not people wetalk to a lot, but you've seen
them. And I think that's whereso many people are today, where
we talk about the apathy, andpeople our age and younger
generations, the New York Timesjust published an article on the

(36:07):
outlook that teenagers have fortheir future and education. And
you can be hopeful. But I thinkmore often than not, that makes
people in my position. Angry,because they've lost the sense

(36:28):
of what to be hopeful for. And Iknow what you're saying it's how
do you know what to be hopefulfor is a brighter future. And
that's so true. But I think whenwe go back, and we say there,

(36:50):
you know, what is our have wegotten? Are we better overall,
than we were so many years ago?
Yes. Yes, to a lot of peoplefeel that. Like, a basic
American dream is to own a housethat wasn't always available to

(37:11):
every single person. And now itis available to even less people
to have a place that is theirown, in which they can build a
base. That's available to lesspeople. So they get mad at their
landlord. Because theirlandlord, from their

(37:33):
perspective, collects theirmoney that they aren't. And
their landlord just happened toown property. Those people are
sitting in it. And I just don'tlike I think, to reach them, you
have to sit with them andexperience that and chart up
together the path back to seeinglight. It's not going to just be

(38:00):
like, yep, but you've got to yougot to do this thing. Because
that's you're not trying hardenough, because I think we're
just so past it. But you know, Imean,

I'm going to ask you this question, and it's
going to come off asinsensitive. Why do you feel
that way? Why do you feel thatyour life you and I were raised
pretty much identical. You and Icome from a very fortunate

(38:35):
background. Why do you feel asthough you are in that
situation? And miserable becauseof it?

I don't feel the need to be miserable. Do you
want to get real for a sec?
Yeah. I because I stayed athome. And when mom and dad got
really sick, I woke up aftergoing to bed at 4am to pick them
up off the floor. And I stressedwith data about finances, and I

(39:10):
helped it home. And that is notthe college experience. When
you're taking your when yourmother gets carried by two
paramedics at 6am into anambulance, and you have a

(39:30):
biology final to go to. And yourgrandmother comes down the
stairs and collapses and saysshe was gone. She was gone. And
then you go to school. Thatisn't the mindset where you go
and you say this is greateducation is awesome.

That's not But like,

I go home, if mom needs me, I was just home in
September when she had surgery.
And I walked into the room andshe didn't know who I was. And
I'm sitting there taking care oftheir dog trying to work a 40
hour work week. Well, I It's notthat I feel the need to feel
like this. It's that I do feellike this. It's not like, I want

(40:27):
to be melancholy. That might bemy natural state of position.
But I think I'm not talkingabout me. There are people that
have had it so much worse thanme. And for me to be like, You
should be optimistic about theworld is ridiculous. Because I
struggled to be optimistic aboutthe world sometimes, just

(40:50):
because like, I was a kid whocared a lot about the fucking
environment. And I have watchedpeople not care anymore. And we
are in such a place of horrorwith the environment, that it's
just like, oh my god, what can Ido? I fucking like as a kid, I

(41:12):
was so hopeful. And not onething has changed. It's only
gotten worse. It's not out of aneed to feel like this. And I
think that is a stigma. If thatmakes sense. It's like, I get
some people want to be like,like, like, you know, like we

(41:36):
Yeah, like Blink 182. It's likefun to feel sad. But I think
sometimes people just arebecause of life. And life is
hard sometimes.

Yeah. Well, thank you.

It's hard to explain to be it's like, yeah,
like, I'm some weeks, I'm veryin Doom. But I'm gonna like, as
long as I wake up the nextmorning, I'm gonna try to do
better because I love people.
But it's, it's hard. But if youkeep that in mind, and this
isn't good, either. Like, I'mnot saying what I feel is good.

(42:17):
But I want to acknowledge that alot of people don't know what to
do right now. And I think thatit's just important that they
feel heard, and not even thatI'm a good spokesperson person

(42:37):
for them. Like, there's a reasonwhen you're in college, you're
full of piss and vinegar andideas. And then you, you know,
you have to settle in, somepeople have to settle it, and
they're settling in as hard as

you feel that you've settled in.

Now, I feel just as restless as ever, but because
I've kept some of my ideal log,you know, Idealist tendencies,
I'm just like, distraughtI'm not complicit with what's

(43:26):
happening. But I feel helplessto change it because I think I
look at it as like a macro pointof view. Case in point how many
Democrats want Biden to be thepresidential nominee and they
know that they know that andhe's still the nominee

and I, I get that but I also come from the mindset
and approach my life with themindset that with with the

(44:21):
optimism that I've talked about,over the past, you know,

it's healthy for me your optimism is healthy for
me.

But I think what what hurts me the most Jack is
seeing you in this state. Andand it's hard for me to watch
this happen to you and know thatyou're not feeling okay about

(44:49):
the world. And I am I feelhelpless in helping you

I think what helps me is not someone not someone
promising me answers butValidating my questions. Because

(45:22):
I don't see a lot of answersyet. They might come, they might
be that. But right now I'msitting in questions. And to
pretend like there are answersto them. I think, in my brain,
though it might not exist inreal life is a fallacy. And I

(45:46):
can understand how someone likeyou would be very frustrated
with someone like me, who doesappear to be sitting rather than
running.

I mean, it my mindset goes back to when I was
sick.

Unknown (46:06):
Yeah, and.

And this has been a very vulnerable episode of the
podcast with you, really, but,um, but I mean, yeah, I was
fighting every day for that. Youknow, I fought every fucking
day. And it wasn't easy. Andthere was no finish line. It was
a day in and day out battle. Andthe best that I could do was

(46:35):
keep a goddamn smile on my face,and say, I'm gonna get through
this. I'm gonna get throughtoday, and I'm gonna get through
tomorrow. And I'm just going tokeep on fighting through it.
Yeah. And that is how I see theworld. You know, there was this
sort of insurmountable obstacleof when the fuck am I going to

(46:58):
get better. And I had no ideahow to climb that mountain. I
had no idea if I'd ever reachedthe mountain. And when I sort of
reached the apex of my illness,things, things didn't look
great. And I just had to say, Igotta get through this. And

(47:25):
there has to be a tomorrow.
Because there are people thathave gotten me to where I am.
That care so much about me. AndI need to care as much about me
as I care about them so that wecan all get through this
together. Yeah. And I adoptedthis, this mindset of just keep
fighting through it. It's goingto be okay, you have to maintain

(47:51):
that positivity. Because thesecond I give up, I don't know
if there's a tomorrow. And Ijust don't give up and I can't
give up.

And you fought really hard through through
everything in your life, you'vehad a lot of obstacles. I don't

know about that.
Well, you've had I mean, youmight

it's like, if someone was living like a you've
certainly lived life, at least aday, you know.

I mean, I don't even want to say that because I
just do I do life the way that Ithink that I should do life. And
it's like that is apply myselfand work hard, and just fucking
put your foot on the ground andgo and fight through that pain

(48:38):
and get through it. And I tryand do it all with a smile on my
face. Right? You know, and thathelps me. It's like, how greedy
can I get? And still say, I loveit.

Do you remember the times where there wasn't a
smile on your face?

There there were bad days. They were trying?

Yeah, no, you were in the hospital for Yeah, like
there

were bad days.
Yeah, there were bad days. Andthere were days that I hated
everyone and hated everything.
But I still knew that I had toget through it. Yeah, because
again, if I didn't, then Ididn't know what what the future
had. But I just I knew deep downthat if I just kept going and
kept that smile on my face.
That's why I smile all the time.

(49:31):
Now. Do

you Do you know your spouse pretty in fact,

people at the gym called me smiling at the
Jumeirah Smiley. It's so fun.
You know, it's like that's why Ijust smile. Because it it helps
me push through the difficult.
Yeah. And so I don't I don'twant to come off as insensitive.

(49:57):
When I say like anything thatI've said this episode, but
Well, I think come from it'scome from a lot of effort. And
it's come from your work areaand work. Yeah.

And everything that you're pointing towards in
your life is to, you know, helpother people and to make the
world a better place.

I try.

I think that's like really important. I think
people, I think, like you are sodetermined in that to make the
world a better place. And Ithink because I've,

I've shifted it in my brain where there is no
other option.

Because we have to get up the next day. That's
where I'm not I have to get if Iwake up, Rob, Carl Reiner, used
to say, before he passed awaythat he'd wake up, and the first
thing he do was read theobituaries. And if he wasn't in
it, he'd start his day. That'sgood. And that, to me, is I

(51:06):
think, how I live my life.

But I like I want you to be able to, like, I just
want to share that positivitywith you. And I want because
what I want for you and this, Idon't know why, you know, I want
you to be the person that youwant to be unbounded by these
feelings of negativity and doomand rumination. Yeah. And so I

(51:30):
want you to fight for the futurethat you want, without feeling
so compressed by theseexternalities. Because I think
that that truly is the way thatyou are going to be able to
accomplish the things that youwant to do. Yeah. Just

(51:55):
unrelenting force. And becauseyou have this, this genius and
you care, and you'recompassionate, and empathetic,
and that's all great. But it'ssort of like, you're, you're
running with a parachuteattached to your back. Yeah. You
know, and how can you run tothat end zone? Free of all that.

I think everyone needs to find their own momentum
for work. I was talking to momthe other day, this is funny, I
wasn't gonna tell you notbecause it was like deep or
anything. I was talking withmom. And I said, it was just
about what time like you and Ihit our peak. You know, like

(52:44):
performance in the day, how youI said, I said, I'm glad mom,
you and I call it 10 o'clock,because I'm pretty awake and
ready to talk by then. And shesaid, Harry calls me at seven.
And I said, by seven o'clock,Harry's already cured cancer,
that with the Pope reachspiritual enlightenment, high

(53:04):
five, the Buddha and finishedout and gone on a 26 mile run.
And I said Harry's will is afreight train. I mean, it is an
unrelenting, pulsing down, likejust flying down the tracks. And
you built those tracks yourself,I think, I think you go through,

(53:29):
like, if you encounter amountain, you will like John
Henry, hammer your way throughit, or you will make that
mountain work for you. And thatyour train will keep going. You
have your everything in that.
And I jokingly said, I think mywill is a hot air balloon. I
said on his sailboat, I saidprobably itself, that's better.

(53:57):
Because I want to control thetrajectory. But I can't. I'm
incapable of going without thewind and whatever that is in my
life. And I think that is verymuch what makes me me. And I
think I didn't know why I wantedto talk with you about this. I

(54:20):
knew you and I process you knowthe world differently. I think
for me, it's about acceptingthat the wind will be there and
how that has changed how I livemy life. Like like when you are
God when you were sick thoseoff? I think the helplessness

(54:41):
that you feel when I'm like downin the dumps or quote unquote
depressed that helplessness. Iget that because it was just
like watching you and you wereill. And you said if I you know
I'm gonna I have to keep has tobe a tomorrow because people
love me. And I think, because Icouldn't completely wrap myself

(55:06):
up in in you with what you weredoing, we were also young, I
will looked around, and I sawother kids who were sick too.
And for me, it's like, and thisisn't at all what you were
saying. But they didn't tryless. They tried differently.

(55:31):
And sometimes, you know, we'refortunate for how it works out.
And I think like, acceptingthat, accepting that in me, you
know, doing what I can while Ihave to accept you. Oh, my God,
I just the first time like weever worked out together, you

(55:56):
were just like, we're gonna dothis. I was like, Are you
kidding? Like, I was just like,oh, like God, like, I could
move. And that's just like, how,like, just like loving that
about you in life? And I think,you know, just the importance
of, of both of those things.

(56:19):
Because I think that's what thepodcast is about. Right? You and
I are different. Yeah. And Ithink that that's good that
we've been there. And I, I'mvery blessed to have that about
you. Right, it annoys mesometimes. But you're able,
like, even just talking rightnow. I had a terrible day. It
was not a great day. And Istarted the podcast having a

(56:40):
shitty day. Yeah. And that wasvery, that would be very UPenn.
We

argued for about 30 minutes.

30 minutes. And you we are having a
conversation. Because you wereable to pull me out of that. I'm
sorry. And I'm grateful forthem. But I will never be a
freight train. Because I can'tbe

but you'll you'll find your path eventually. And
maybe I'll get there. You know,

I don't take out you know, like a sailboat. Not a
hot air balloon because that's alittle that's a little sad. I'm
shaped like a hot air balloon.
Let's go. Let's do this. So

I just want you to be happy man.

Yeah, dude, but like my happiness is different
than yours.

All right, I'll rephrase that so that it comes
across the way that I reallywant it to. So that you can't
say fucking anything back to meabout it. I want you to feel as
though you are able to doanything that you want to do
without being hindered bysomething that exists. So

(57:53):
concretely in your mind. Whereasit might not. It might not be as
pressing of a force as you think

that was a dissertation statement right
there. I appreciate that though.
Don't get caught up in the doomand gloom as much don't

be weighed down ruminate

ruminate you know what meat tastes the best though
marinadewhy it's all that cortisol?

Jesus Christ No, I

I appreciate it.
And because we're sharing hopesI hope that my relentless
pessimism helps you to engagewith people. Like me, more

(59:07):
empathetic.

I really appreciated that point that you
made. I very much did.

Think I said people like me. I don't mean to
say I speak for all people whosuffer with the doom and gloom.
That's all I'm saying. But youknow. Yeah. Ben, what did he
made it? Who needs Jesus? JesusChrist. I mean, I'm just I don't

(59:46):
know if people like listen tothis, and they think wow, this
makes me think of something inmy life, or if they're just
like, Who the hell are theseguys?

I don't know what's gonna go on the internet.

Jack Weidner (01:00:00):
But these two guys, these two guys, alright,

Harry Weidner (01:00:03):
I'll wrap it up, wrap us up.

Jack Weidner (01:00:07):
Thank you so much for listening to whatever Harry
ends up. Making this into, ifyou have any thoughts or would
like to share any of yourthoughts doesn't have to be
personal, but just like a jack,stop soaking in it, or, Hey
Harry, smile a little bit less.
When you're in the grocerystore, no one wants to see that

(01:00:28):
thing. Put that away. Let usknow at our table
minds@gmail.com. Don't forget torate our podcast. And if you are
so inclined, my dear, dearbrother is running in a
marathon. And he's running thismarathon for two reasons, which
you will not be surprised. Butfirst and foremost, he's

(01:00:48):
obviously running in it to tellpeople he ran a marathon and get
pictures of it afterwards andhang them on our wall. Because
he needs to constantly remindpeople that he is very athletic
and more so than his brother.
Second of all, he is running init because he is running for a
charity that he is verypassionate about that is in line

(01:01:11):
with his mission to create amore equitable health care
system both at home andhopefully someday abroad. If you
can donate to his run, Harrywill post the links in the bio
or whatever that podcast becauseI don't have the links. And I so
appreciate you listening. Thanksfor listening to this one. It

(01:01:31):
was real. This was real, reallife. And I hope that I hope
that you all wherever you'relistening, know that whatever
emotion you were feelingpositive or negative, it is a
spectrum. Know that. We careabout you and that you are not
alone. Thank you so much.

Harry Weidner (01:01:50):
Oh man.

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