March 25, 2024 • 33 mins
Good morning, Tangled Minds! Sorry we missed last week. This week Harry and I share news articles that give us hope. (No matter what Harry says, those were the ONLY stipulations on his prompt.) I hope that these hopes imbue you with hope. It springs eternal from some place—might as well try to make it this podcast. Harry has linked them below. Have a wonderful week! And remember, if you woke up today, you may as well make a day of it.
Link 1: https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20240315/national-hiv-selftesting-program-finds-high-demand-many-testing-for-first-time
Link 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/style/tiny-modern-love-stories-not-a-mistake.html?unlocked_article_code=1.fU0.Z492.IweZCzSFm43Q&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&ugrp=u
Email us at ourtangledminds@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Harry Weidner (00:01):
Take a look. All right. Welcome back to our
tangled minds.
Welcome to our tangled mind.
I'm Harry Weidner.
Jack Weidner (00:11):
I'm Jack Bagnato.
Harry Weidner (00:12):
Episode 26, we're back. We took a week off because
I was stressed. I had too muchgoing on and I couldn't squeeze
out some time to do this. AndI'm sorry, I do apologize, but
that's what happens.
I'm sure they'll be okay.
Everyone's okay. But we're back.
What's the ratio?
(00:33):
Now from? Something? I haven'ttold a lot of people yet. So I'm
not going to guess that.
I need to tell more people lookat nothing's new with anyone
here.
No. I didn't tell people.
Okay, well, I'm gonna keep this.
I'll keep this in. I'll keepthis in and keep everyone
(00:55):
guessing. Nothing's new. In caseyou were wondering,
probably good.
Andit's nice to see you. Nice to
talk to you. Yeah. we've chatteda little bit.
we've chatted here and therebriefly, but not much, not too
much. What's new with you,now that
(01:17):
I'm getting increasingly worriedthat I'm not going to get into
medical school? So goes thereality of medical applying to
medical school. And so I'm justlooking into internships or
jobs. I, I reckon my logicalmove is move out to Colorado.
regard. I don't understand. See,that's the one thing I don't
understand. Like, I'm totally insupport if you're going to
(01:39):
Colorado, but you saying thelogical move is for me to move
to the middle of the countrydoesn't make sense? Well, let's
talk about my head. And this isyour house. And as you are
retired, this is a new.
This is an issue that stems fromthe microcosm of my neuroticism.
Okay, I need a plan. Now I needto sit around with a plan A and
(02:04):
I need to not be floating inlimbo, waiting for medical
school. And so if I can getahead of the curve, by planning
to move to Colorado, and havinga job or an internship, then if
Colorado were to say,Congratulations, you have a spot
in our class, then I'm alreadythere.
(02:25):
And I need that plan in my head.
Because waiting until my leaseends in Boston, having to move
back home or possibly having tomove back home is fine.
But I would rather just go hereto there. And avoid like this
weird space where I'm not quitesure what's going on. So then
(02:46):
if you apply to med school againwith that, would Colorado be
your first choice? Yeah,probably because you'd be there.
I mean, who knows? Who knowswhat could happen? There's,
Jack Weidner (02:54):
there's a lot up in the air. You can't say I'm
going to move to Colorado, incase. And then when asked the
question, what if in a year, youreapply to med school is
Colorado all like art? Are youreggs in the Colorado basket? And
then say let's play by here?
Yes, I
Harry Weidner (03:13):
can that yes, I bet. Yes, I
Jack Weidner (03:15):
will music to jazz. You're not George
Gershwin. No, I
Harry Weidner (03:19):
can do whatever I want there. And I'll tell you
what, because because I want toask you to write one. Fucking
why. And no, it's one. It's mylife. And I can do whatever I
want to. I would much rathermake actions based on what I
currently think then what Ithought. And so and I
(03:41):
yeah, I want you to do that. Idon't want you to say it's the
logical thing. It is. I'mtotally cool with you being
like, I want to move toColorado. I don't know why
that's the choice. The choicethen becomes logical because you
made it not because it isinherently logical for you to be
(04:02):
like, I'm gonna move toColorado. Did you die?
No, but okay, it may be for you.
But for me, it's that, okay,that's where we've landed here.
That's fine, too.
Yeah, it makes sense in my head.
And so I'm gonna say it makessense. Okay, sorry. Hey,
(04:23):
yeah, I'm just curious, becauseI'm one sad that you are moving
to Colorado. No, it's gonna behere that this is this is the
car. Well, hang on. Give me Giveme two seconds.
Take your time.
I said, I'm bummed. I told Haleythis while I was making dinner I
said Harry just told me Coloradolike I'm excited for him. I'm a
little bit bummed that you know,like I was holding out a little
(04:48):
bit of hope that you and I wouldend up at the same place just so
we'd be a little bit closer sowe could like, maybe do this in
person. I don't know. Maybe getcoffee like once a month.
That would be fun.
Well, hey, got coffee. I'm fine.
She looked at me and said, he'sin Boston right now, what's the
difference? And I said, I'd likedrew a map of the globe because
I'm an asshole. And I was like,Okay, we're here. Boston's here,
(05:10):
Colorado's over in the otherfucking apartment. Yes, far. But
her point being we don't seeeach other now. But it was a
dash of hope, because there's noway in hell.
But I think it would be fun ifyou came out
to visit. Oh, I'd come visit.
Yeah, yeah, it visits the heckout of here.
(05:32):
We'd be sweet. It's a it's acool place. So it's I'm excited.
I'm excited. And so yeah, I'verationalized it in my head. And
it makes sense alot. It's exactly yeah, so you
and I were pretty similar.
So that's what's new with me.
Oh, I'm applying to aninternship at Pfizer have really
cool internship at Pfizer. So ifanyone knows any contacts at
(05:53):
Pfizer, let me know. Because Iwould really appreciate that
connection. Ours. Internshipwould be one of the coolest
experiences that I could have.
It's sort of Jack thankfullyhelped edit my cover letter. And
it would be a really greatexperience that operates at the
(06:16):
crossroads of clinical health,public health, and data
analytics. And it's I love thatspace. So if you know anything,
let me know. Yeah,that was super fun helping you
with your thing. I texted youthat but I had a really it was
actually like, you reminded methat I like editing, and helping
people use words to communicatetheir ideas. I appreciated your
(06:39):
home. You've done my job nowthat you've edited boring
documents, and I format them andlike, it's horrible life
stalking. Terrible. Thatreminded me why I got into this
in the person.
Well, I appreciate your help.
I really needed that. That'sexciting that Pfizer though
(07:00):
that's, I mean,dude, I want this internship so
badly. Iknow a lot of middle aged white
men that have a lot of thoughtson Pfizer, but none of them know
anyone who worked there, exceptfor Anthony Fauci.
It's a, it's an interestingplace to work. It I think that
(07:22):
if I were to get thisinternship, I would learn a lot
about Ithat I'm curious about this,
because increasingly, I think,in my head, because of COVID, I
have looked at Pfizer as a wing,or at least an extension of the
CDC, or the government as awhole, the Department of Health,
(07:47):
which it is not, it's not a partof this chronic problem where
America privatizes. So I wouldbe curious, for two to learn
kind of like how they approachbeing a privatized entity that
works for the betterment ofsociety, that is also a for
(08:08):
profit company that is paid bythe government to do the work
that they don't have thecapability to do because they
privatized this section of anindustry,
right. It's an interesting spaceto operate in. And I've been
thinking a lot about that. Themore because they're hiring
(08:29):
people in public health. Yep. Sohow can we bleed public health
into these privatized sectors tomake them more public healthy?
Right. No, I mean, that makessense. Someone like me could
argue that maybe all of thatcould be done not in a
(08:52):
capitalistic way. Yeah. Andmaybe you could get those people
into a an aid maybe not even agovernment agency, maybe a
charity or something. I don'tknow. There's I think there's
other ways to do it. Yeah. Youjust have to throw money at
things. Yeah. I have a lot ofthoughts on private well, I have
worked thoughts that I can'tshare it but like it even like
(09:13):
education like this idea of likeprivatizing government things I
would be excited from a selfishreason if you got this job at
Pfizer because I do love to hearwhat the mindset there is and
how you as someone who caresvery much about public health
kind of occupy that liminalspace but you know, it's a gray
area. That's interesting. Yeah,it's it's a big gray area. It's
(09:33):
an interesting gray area. Ireally want this internship
Yeah, I Yeah. So I think I wouldjust learn so much and love it.
Anyway, it is cool. Anyway, allright. Let's do this is good
boss coming out in session, asame topic, different ways
because I think we both did thatfor this assignment. Would you
(09:56):
like to you you for thisepisode, you gave an assignment.
Yeah.
I thought it would beinteresting. I thought it would
be interesting if Jack and Iboth found a piece of news that
we've read in the past. I don'tknow, month or so, however long.
And but in positive news,because I'm sick of negative
news, negative news is not fun.
And I wanted to see what youwould bring me. And I brought
(10:19):
you something, I brought yousomething in public health, just
because that's where I spendmost of my days. I haven't read
what JackJack found, and I haven't read
wheat. None of us know whatwe're so we're
gonna do the exchange now.
Georgia go first.
Yeah, sure, I'll go first, I gotyou an article about a CDC
(10:42):
initiative to increase HIV athome testing. Okay, I think HIV
is a fascinating disease, bothbiochemically and from a public
health perspective, because ofthe stigma around it. And there
are all these lofty goals to endHIV transmission. But those need
(11:05):
to start with people gettingtested. And so this initiative,
it's called together take mehome, the TT MH initiative. And
it, it significantly impactedthe distribution of HIV self
test kits. And what they did wasthey used online platforms like
online dating platforms, a lotof Grindr testing, to distribute
(11:30):
accessible HIV testing. So theyended up shipping from March to
December 2023 337,812. Tests,why and that was over 181,558
orders placed. So a majority ofthe tests were to test orders,
(11:50):
which is awesome, so that peoplecan test repeatedly. And it's
important to say that thesetests are highly sensitive and
specific. So they're not 100%accurate, but they're pretty
damn good. They're better thannot getting tested at all. 62%
of the orders were placedthrough grinder 25% over 25%
were first time testers which ishuge, because the more people
(12:12):
you test, the more idea you haveof how many people are HIV
positive. And the positive cessself test result rate was around
2.1%. So a caught a good bit ofHIV. And hopefully, the linkage
to care was great after that. Iknow they talked about it in the
article. And I said, and I thinkthey said that the linkage to
(12:36):
care after testing positive waspretty good. A 61% went to two
men with male partners with 18%,identifying as black and 33% as
Hispanic, even even having ahigher percentage of black women
ordering tests is a good stepforward. I think this test, or
(12:57):
this, this, this initiativethrough social media and
increasing people's access totesting is huge, because it
reduces the stigma associatedwith going to a clinic and
getting a test. Cool. And so itwas a huge success. I was happy
to see that this was done. I wassurprised that it wasn't done
earlier.
(13:17):
How? How does an article likethis make you hopeful for the
future? Yeah,so now we know that it works.
And people are using thesesocial media platforms to as a
way that they can accesstesting. So given its success, I
would say the program couldscale up for HIV testing, more
(13:39):
widespread, and also other selftestable, communicable diseases.
So who knows how technologycould implement these things? If
it works on Grindr? Why not makeit a more permanent thing on
Grindr? You know, maybe partnerwith Grindr to have this as a
permanent link that people canaccess to order HIV testing at
(14:04):
little to no cost. I think itmakes me hopeful for the future
of self testing. A lot of peopleare familiar with self tests
from COVID. But if we can selftest and increase the number of
people who are testing for HIV,that could significantly reduce
the burden of HIV across the USand beyond. How can we use this
(14:27):
in other countries, like maybe aSub Saharan Africa where there's
a lot of stigma associated withgoing to an HIV clinic? This
really reduces the burden ofpeople to have to go to the
clinic. Because, you know, ifyou ask someone with HIV, do you
want to go to a clinic? A lot ofthe time the answer is going to
(14:51):
be no.
So I was going to ask if youthink like this is this makes
you hopeful for kind of, notreally Moving but significantly
make the stigma reducing thestigma. Yeah,
reducing stigma and sort oflogistical challenges of
accessing care is huge,especially for these stigmatized
(15:13):
illnesses, like HIV or otherSTIs. Even. So if you can reduce
the stigma, and it's importantthat you give them an avenue to
link to care afterward. So ifyou get a positive test, that's
not very helpful, unless you'relinked to care. And I don't
recall how this initiative,specifically linked people to
(15:38):
care, after testing, but theyhad something implemented that,
that they were able to get care.
And I they said 6.5% soughtfurther STI testing. So pretty
good numbers. But pilot study.
So.
(16:01):
Yeah, so great results, hopefulfor the future and great
results, hopefully, for thefuture and
who, and I think this willunlock the door to more
any sort of flexible healthcaredelivery model that meets
patients where they are, isproductive. And so the fact that
(16:27):
this was rolled out and had suchgreat success and high
enrollment is huge. I think aswe sort of accept telehealth as
a better mode of deliveringhealth care, we will see an
increase in equitable access tohealth care across the United
States.
Do you think a lot of this isn'tin the article? Do you think a
(16:48):
lot of this was inspired by thesuccess of the at home COVID
tests?
It might have been you know, sothis this ran from March to
December 2023. I don't know themotivations behind it
specifically, but it could verywell have been, you know, an
(17:10):
initiative that stemmed fromthat. Sure. That's what I had. I
thought that was great news.
No, that is that's really cool.
We're this gonna be a quick one.
I will share mine with you mightbe a little different.
I figured it would be um,I'd say we'd put these in the in
the description book mindsbehind a paywall, because I
(17:33):
didn't think wow. Yeah, cuz it'sthe times I chose a modern love
short story. That makes me cryevery time I read it. Apply
this. Okay. That's the firstone. I asked Jack
(17:53):
to find some new news.
And he sent me a story youdidn't say new news. You say I
was published in 2019 It setnews that gives me hope. And I
coming back to this one. Okay.
This is news that gives me out.
I can actually just read it.
Because it's so short. So tinylove stories are something that
(18:14):
the New York Times publishes. Ithink it's weekly but they
published a few of them. Andthey are Modern Love, quote
unquote, which is a column aboutloves and you know, the modern
age in miniature featuringreader submitted stories of no
more than 100 words. And thisone is called he tried so hard
(18:35):
to remember me. says when mywhen my 61 year old father
learned he had Alzheimer's. Wewent to CVS together and bought
the largest stack of note cardsthey sold. I asked, What's the
town you grew up at? We wroteUnion Springs, Alabama. asked,
Who was your first kiss Amanda.
(19:00):
Four years later preparing tomove my father into memory care.
I packed up his desk. Taking thenote cards felt silly. So I
wrapped the long forgotten stackin a rubber band and opened his
drawer to toss them away. InsideI found more no cards. They all
said the same thing. My nameyes, yes. That is by Drew
(19:30):
Hassan. I believe that might notbe how he pronounces his name.
I've read that when I firstbought the book of a collection
of these love stories, and Iburst into tears. And I read it
when I'm having a bad day tomake my day worse, actually. But
(19:54):
I read it with a very specificthing. That to me II, everything
that is so beautiful abouthumanity is captured in this
little paragraphs where we try,I think just repeatedly, so hard
(20:17):
for the people that we love. Andthat is what makes the hard
moments so much harder. So like,when you lose someone, we lose,
we feel so much grief because welove them. When we get someone
(20:38):
new into the family, there is somuch joy because we you know,
hopefully in the best casescenarios, you know, we share
love. And it gives me hope forthe future. Because, like
everything so far in our livesand in the human experience, I
think that no matter whatobstacles we face, we will try
(21:03):
because of those that we love.
And that is why I come back tothis specific article. Because
it reminds me to try and thathuman beings try for those that
we love. Wow, that's sweet.
I was not expecting that.
(21:24):
I figured this wasn't what Ifigured it wouldn't be what you
were expecting. I like looked atother articles, but like, God,
everything's so depressing.
So I mean, this is a little sad.
This is depressing. I crack.
Yeah, this was a little sad. ButI think to me, that's like the
(21:45):
human. It's my human experience.
Right? We've talked about this,I think life is beautiful,
because it is both sad and good.
There are there are beautifulthings that come out not because
of the sadness, but in spite ofthem. Right. So and then there's
a picture in the article of thishuge stack of note costs, so
(22:07):
codes. Yeah. I don't know. Whatdid you think of the article?
I don't know. I think it's sad.
I think it makes me think a lotabout those that are aging in
our lives.
Yeah, I read this for the firsttime when Dida our grandfather
(22:29):
was starting to, you know, tolike he started to like be a
little bit more forgetful. Likeyou noticed that because he was
one of the sharpest people ever.
And then he started to slip afew times and I read this for
the first time. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I think neurodegenerativediseases he did not have a
neurodegenerative disease. Hehad old age but I think
(22:53):
neurodegenerative diseases arehorrible yep i A
yes use do you see hope? Wasthat was I like I don't know. I
don't really I don't seeanything but hope. It's sad.
It's a tragic ending but like tome Yeah.
(23:17):
I see hope that the best you cando is care for those you love.
Right? Much like you said,that's where that that's where
that gets me. I don't see a lotof hope for humanity in that
room. To be completely honest.
No, because I mean, think abouthow much bad there is in the
world today. I know you knowabout how much bathers
(23:40):
are we flipping right now withno I know. I know. I know. You
think about how much bad thereis in the world today. I don't
know it. How much time do youthink those people doing those
horrible things are spending.
Thinking about things like this?
Not but I can't and this is thequote you I can't think about
(24:05):
what those people are thinkingabout when they do but this
reminds me of loves resiliencywithin human beings as a whole.
I've said before, I hate peopleI love humanity. And something
like this makes me not only lovehumanity, weep for humanity, but
(24:30):
also women be have incredibleall and be inspired by what we
can do based on loves. I toldmom the other day, I told you
(24:53):
this. I think anytime someonesays To like, you're curious
about something where you ask aquestion, and I've talked about
this with you too. Or you writeabout something, I think that
takes that, that just thatlittle act takes an incredible
(25:13):
amount of love. Because to spendenough time with something that
you're going to write about,whether you're gonna think about
someone else that I think islove, and I think that's what
drives so much of you act, andpower and greed, and okay, or,
and lust, but like, this is thisis really what like, you know,
(25:35):
why don't we get out of bed inthe morning? This because this,
yaknow, what makes me interested
in this? Is I would want it tobe more than 100 words. No,
Jack Weidner (25:50):
that's, that's what makes it perfect.
Unknown (25:53):
It doesn't mean I want to know the rest of the
experience. That's it. No, thatis there. No, it's not it.
Jack Weidner (25:59):
That's it. That's, that's a no, because because the
ending is up to us. But youdon't. You want enclosure, you
have the closure. Because thepoint was contained in there.
There was a beginning. There wasa middle, there was an end. We
(26:22):
know the end we know it'ssomeone's diagnosed with
terminal cancer. Oh, you know,like, you're watching the
Titanic. What's the end? It'slike, well,
Unknown (26:31):
we know but I want to know the middle. This is that's
there's no middle. I know. Iknow. The notes are the middle I
don't know. That
Jack Weidner (26:40):
that's it's it's it is humanity. At its stripped
down bare spots.
Harry Weidner (26:48):
It's like the the alleged Hemingway for sale baby
shoes never worn
Jack Weidner (26:54):
it. Yes, this is this is called something this is
this would not be fiction. Butthere's something called flash
fiction. And this is flashnonfiction. It's a flash story.
But it's raw. You don't havetime. It is Rob fluffiness. You
know, like that. We know theends. He told us the long
(27:18):
forgotten no cards, but theright in front of him is the
proof that you know, we tryanyways. It's like why do we buy
flowers? They die. We know theend. But we appreciate them
while they're here. Yeah, thatgives me hope.
Harry Weidner (27:38):
I like that that gives you hope.
Jack Weidner (27:43):
I like to get evidence. Well,
Harry Weidner (27:47):
you know, I think it's just interesting. What you
and I have found opendifferently. I knew I knew that
this would end up we would havevery different articles are kind
of figured. You know, I didn'texpect you to go all the way
back at 2019.
Jack Weidner (28:05):
Do you know what's beautiful about that, though?
That's our disciplines. Yeah.
Like your discipline is what wasthe most recent kind of thing.
And my discipline is very muchwhat resonates? What what allows
a piece of art the power toresonate long after it has been
(28:25):
created? And what puts it inconversation with what came
before it. And why will it be inconversation with things that
happened after? Yeah.
Unknown (28:36):
Thank you for that.
Jack Weidner (28:37):
Thank you for yours.
Harry Weidner (28:39):
I appreciate.
Unknown (28:41):
I appreciate man, I always learn something from you
and learn about I learned
Jack Weidner (28:45):
a lot for you. i i HIV is something that is
fascinating that I just don'tknow enough about
Harry Weidner (28:52):
it is and you know, to go back to it. The
President's Emergency PlanPEPFAR P P. F. AR, for AIDS
Relief President's EmergencyPlan for AIDS Relief that's in
jeopardy right now.
Jack Weidner (29:07):
Who started that?
Harry Weidner (29:09):
Who? Got bush?
No, I don't know. Let's look itup. It was President Bush in
2000. Dairy President Bush overPEPFAR. So yeah, that is a huge
fund for AIDS Relief around theworld. And it's currently under
Jeopardy, because a lot ofplaces that a lot of places that
offer HIV AIDS testing andresources, also offer abortion.
(29:33):
And so the funding for PEPFAR isin this strange, weird space
where it might get defunded nowif we defund PEPFAR we are
facing terrible globalchallenges
Jack Weidner (29:51):
read and all about this when roe is overturned.
Yeah, it's not good.
Harry Weidner (29:56):
So that's, that doesn't give me any hope at all.
Well, Oh, that gives me no hopein the HIV AIDS effort around
the world and especially in theglobal south where they require
money and resources to fight.
HIV AIDS bad, bad.
Jack Weidner (30:15):
What can I can I be you for a second? Yeah, go
genomic gives me hope about whatyou just said. But that
President George Bush was theone who started that. Yeah. One
of the when you know, someoneand you don't have like, you
(30:36):
don't want to like, quote, theobvious, and they look at you,
and they're like, Am I smart?
And you're like, You're sopretty. Like, George Bush is
like the president. We're like,Oh, he's so nice. Not a lot of
great things you could say abouthim. But he did start that.
Yeah. Against what you wouldthink the Republican Party would
be okay with. What theRepublican Party was, okay,
well,
Harry Weidner (30:54):
but so think about Axolotl. Think about how
there's so much lesspolarization than how, you know,
there was so much morebipartisan support for but
things like also,
Jack Weidner (31:05):
that was coming out of polarization. Think of
how polarizing the 80s were. Imean, I mentioned Ronald Reagan
before, but like, look at howthat went. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And Bush came out of thatsame party, and that same
Republican mindset.
Harry Weidner (31:20):
But all right, 4pm. I've had a long day. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (31:26):
Let's end it. All right. Thank you so much for
sticking around. We will do ourbest to put the articles in this
description. I don't knowlegally if we're allowed to. I
guess if we cite it, we can putit we could put my article in
the description.
Harry Weidner (31:43):
I don't know there. You have come after us.
Well, then,
Jack Weidner (31:46):
I mean, it sounds like we're putting like we're
doing anything with Disney.
Disney would come after us.
Anyways, thank you so much forsticking around, and seeing how
this mess unravels. If you haveany thoughts, questions, please
email us at our20 minds@gmail.com Thank you to
the few people who have emailedus here and I read your emails
(32:09):
and they make us very happy. Wewill one day do a response to a
lot of the once we get once weget back enough. We'll do a
response. Yeah,
Harry Weidner (32:19):
we just got an absolutely beautiful email.
Yeah, from a listener and thatwas awesome. That made the whole
day made my week on Zapier rightabout it. Thank you so much for
sending that. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (32:34):
Should we name person? Okay. You're a mother of
one of our friends if you'relistening, so thank you. Yeah.
All right. Oh, Christ. Yeah,thank you. So why don't we add
this anymore? I don't know. Allright, or adds it to a setup
Take a look. All right. Welcome back to our
tangled minds.
Welcome to our tangled mind.
I'm Harry Weidner.
Jack Weidner (00:11):
I'm Jack Bagnato.
Harry Weidner (00:12):
Episode 26, we're back. We took a week off because
I was stressed. I had too muchgoing on and I couldn't squeeze
out some time to do this. AndI'm sorry, I do apologize, but
that's what happens.
I'm sure they'll be okay.
Everyone's okay. But we're back.
What's the ratio?
(00:33):
Now from? Something? I haven'ttold a lot of people yet. So I'm
not going to guess that.
I need to tell more people lookat nothing's new with anyone
here.
No. I didn't tell people.
Okay, well, I'm gonna keep this.
I'll keep this in. I'll keepthis in and keep everyone
(00:55):
guessing. Nothing's new. In caseyou were wondering,
probably good.
Andit's nice to see you. Nice to
talk to you. Yeah. we've chatteda little bit.
we've chatted here and therebriefly, but not much, not too
much. What's new with you,now that
(01:17):
I'm getting increasingly worriedthat I'm not going to get into
medical school? So goes thereality of medical applying to
medical school. And so I'm justlooking into internships or
jobs. I, I reckon my logicalmove is move out to Colorado.
regard. I don't understand. See,that's the one thing I don't
understand. Like, I'm totally insupport if you're going to
(01:39):
Colorado, but you saying thelogical move is for me to move
to the middle of the countrydoesn't make sense? Well, let's
talk about my head. And this isyour house. And as you are
retired, this is a new.
This is an issue that stems fromthe microcosm of my neuroticism.
Okay, I need a plan. Now I needto sit around with a plan A and
(02:04):
I need to not be floating inlimbo, waiting for medical
school. And so if I can getahead of the curve, by planning
to move to Colorado, and havinga job or an internship, then if
Colorado were to say,Congratulations, you have a spot
in our class, then I'm alreadythere.
(02:25):
And I need that plan in my head.
Because waiting until my leaseends in Boston, having to move
back home or possibly having tomove back home is fine.
But I would rather just go hereto there. And avoid like this
weird space where I'm not quitesure what's going on. So then
(02:46):
if you apply to med school againwith that, would Colorado be
your first choice? Yeah,probably because you'd be there.
I mean, who knows? Who knowswhat could happen? There's,
Jack Weidner (02:54):
there's a lot up in the air. You can't say I'm
going to move to Colorado, incase. And then when asked the
question, what if in a year, youreapply to med school is
Colorado all like art? Are youreggs in the Colorado basket? And
then say let's play by here?
Yes, I
Harry Weidner (03:13):
can that yes, I bet. Yes, I
Jack Weidner (03:15):
will music to jazz. You're not George
Gershwin. No, I
Harry Weidner (03:19):
can do whatever I want there. And I'll tell you
what, because because I want toask you to write one. Fucking
why. And no, it's one. It's mylife. And I can do whatever I
want to. I would much rathermake actions based on what I
currently think then what Ithought. And so and I
(03:41):
yeah, I want you to do that. Idon't want you to say it's the
logical thing. It is. I'mtotally cool with you being
like, I want to move toColorado. I don't know why
that's the choice. The choicethen becomes logical because you
made it not because it isinherently logical for you to be
(04:02):
like, I'm gonna move toColorado. Did you die?
No, but okay, it may be for you.
But for me, it's that, okay,that's where we've landed here.
That's fine, too.
Yeah, it makes sense in my head.
And so I'm gonna say it makessense. Okay, sorry. Hey,
(04:23):
yeah, I'm just curious, becauseI'm one sad that you are moving
to Colorado. No, it's gonna behere that this is this is the
car. Well, hang on. Give me Giveme two seconds.
Take your time.
I said, I'm bummed. I told Haleythis while I was making dinner I
said Harry just told me Coloradolike I'm excited for him. I'm a
little bit bummed that you know,like I was holding out a little
(04:48):
bit of hope that you and I wouldend up at the same place just so
we'd be a little bit closer sowe could like, maybe do this in
person. I don't know. Maybe getcoffee like once a month.
That would be fun.
Well, hey, got coffee. I'm fine.
She looked at me and said, he'sin Boston right now, what's the
difference? And I said, I'd likedrew a map of the globe because
I'm an asshole. And I was like,Okay, we're here. Boston's here,
(05:10):
Colorado's over in the otherfucking apartment. Yes, far. But
her point being we don't seeeach other now. But it was a
dash of hope, because there's noway in hell.
But I think it would be fun ifyou came out
to visit. Oh, I'd come visit.
Yeah, yeah, it visits the heckout of here.
(05:32):
We'd be sweet. It's a it's acool place. So it's I'm excited.
I'm excited. And so yeah, I'verationalized it in my head. And
it makes sense alot. It's exactly yeah, so you
and I were pretty similar.
So that's what's new with me.
Oh, I'm applying to aninternship at Pfizer have really
cool internship at Pfizer. So ifanyone knows any contacts at
(05:53):
Pfizer, let me know. Because Iwould really appreciate that
connection. Ours. Internshipwould be one of the coolest
experiences that I could have.
It's sort of Jack thankfullyhelped edit my cover letter. And
it would be a really greatexperience that operates at the
(06:16):
crossroads of clinical health,public health, and data
analytics. And it's I love thatspace. So if you know anything,
let me know. Yeah,that was super fun helping you
with your thing. I texted youthat but I had a really it was
actually like, you reminded methat I like editing, and helping
people use words to communicatetheir ideas. I appreciated your
(06:39):
home. You've done my job nowthat you've edited boring
documents, and I format them andlike, it's horrible life
stalking. Terrible. Thatreminded me why I got into this
in the person.
Well, I appreciate your help.
I really needed that. That'sexciting that Pfizer though
(07:00):
that's, I mean,dude, I want this internship so
badly. Iknow a lot of middle aged white
men that have a lot of thoughtson Pfizer, but none of them know
anyone who worked there, exceptfor Anthony Fauci.
It's a, it's an interestingplace to work. It I think that
(07:22):
if I were to get thisinternship, I would learn a lot
about Ithat I'm curious about this,
because increasingly, I think,in my head, because of COVID, I
have looked at Pfizer as a wing,or at least an extension of the
CDC, or the government as awhole, the Department of Health,
(07:47):
which it is not, it's not a partof this chronic problem where
America privatizes. So I wouldbe curious, for two to learn
kind of like how they approachbeing a privatized entity that
works for the betterment ofsociety, that is also a for
(08:08):
profit company that is paid bythe government to do the work
that they don't have thecapability to do because they
privatized this section of anindustry,
right. It's an interesting spaceto operate in. And I've been
thinking a lot about that. Themore because they're hiring
(08:29):
people in public health. Yep. Sohow can we bleed public health
into these privatized sectors tomake them more public healthy?
Right. No, I mean, that makessense. Someone like me could
argue that maybe all of thatcould be done not in a
(08:52):
capitalistic way. Yeah. Andmaybe you could get those people
into a an aid maybe not even agovernment agency, maybe a
charity or something. I don'tknow. There's I think there's
other ways to do it. Yeah. Youjust have to throw money at
things. Yeah. I have a lot ofthoughts on private well, I have
worked thoughts that I can'tshare it but like it even like
(09:13):
education like this idea of likeprivatizing government things I
would be excited from a selfishreason if you got this job at
Pfizer because I do love to hearwhat the mindset there is and
how you as someone who caresvery much about public health
kind of occupy that liminalspace but you know, it's a gray
area. That's interesting. Yeah,it's it's a big gray area. It's
(09:33):
an interesting gray area. Ireally want this internship
Yeah, I Yeah. So I think I wouldjust learn so much and love it.
Anyway, it is cool. Anyway, allright. Let's do this is good
boss coming out in session, asame topic, different ways
because I think we both did thatfor this assignment. Would you
(09:56):
like to you you for thisepisode, you gave an assignment.
Yeah.
I thought it would beinteresting. I thought it would
be interesting if Jack and Iboth found a piece of news that
we've read in the past. I don'tknow, month or so, however long.
And but in positive news,because I'm sick of negative
news, negative news is not fun.
And I wanted to see what youwould bring me. And I brought
(10:19):
you something, I brought yousomething in public health, just
because that's where I spendmost of my days. I haven't read
what JackJack found, and I haven't read
wheat. None of us know whatwe're so we're
gonna do the exchange now.
Georgia go first.
Yeah, sure, I'll go first, I gotyou an article about a CDC
(10:42):
initiative to increase HIV athome testing. Okay, I think HIV
is a fascinating disease, bothbiochemically and from a public
health perspective, because ofthe stigma around it. And there
are all these lofty goals to endHIV transmission. But those need
(11:05):
to start with people gettingtested. And so this initiative,
it's called together take mehome, the TT MH initiative. And
it, it significantly impactedthe distribution of HIV self
test kits. And what they did wasthey used online platforms like
online dating platforms, a lotof Grindr testing, to distribute
(11:30):
accessible HIV testing. So theyended up shipping from March to
December 2023 337,812. Tests,why and that was over 181,558
orders placed. So a majority ofthe tests were to test orders,
(11:50):
which is awesome, so that peoplecan test repeatedly. And it's
important to say that thesetests are highly sensitive and
specific. So they're not 100%accurate, but they're pretty
damn good. They're better thannot getting tested at all. 62%
of the orders were placedthrough grinder 25% over 25%
were first time testers which ishuge, because the more people
(12:12):
you test, the more idea you haveof how many people are HIV
positive. And the positive cessself test result rate was around
2.1%. So a caught a good bit ofHIV. And hopefully, the linkage
to care was great after that. Iknow they talked about it in the
article. And I said, and I thinkthey said that the linkage to
(12:36):
care after testing positive waspretty good. A 61% went to two
men with male partners with 18%,identifying as black and 33% as
Hispanic, even even having ahigher percentage of black women
ordering tests is a good stepforward. I think this test, or
(12:57):
this, this, this initiativethrough social media and
increasing people's access totesting is huge, because it
reduces the stigma associatedwith going to a clinic and
getting a test. Cool. And so itwas a huge success. I was happy
to see that this was done. I wassurprised that it wasn't done
earlier.
(13:17):
How? How does an article likethis make you hopeful for the
future? Yeah,so now we know that it works.
And people are using thesesocial media platforms to as a
way that they can accesstesting. So given its success, I
would say the program couldscale up for HIV testing, more
(13:39):
widespread, and also other selftestable, communicable diseases.
So who knows how technologycould implement these things? If
it works on Grindr? Why not makeit a more permanent thing on
Grindr? You know, maybe partnerwith Grindr to have this as a
permanent link that people canaccess to order HIV testing at
(14:04):
little to no cost. I think itmakes me hopeful for the future
of self testing. A lot of peopleare familiar with self tests
from COVID. But if we can selftest and increase the number of
people who are testing for HIV,that could significantly reduce
the burden of HIV across the USand beyond. How can we use this
(14:27):
in other countries, like maybe aSub Saharan Africa where there's
a lot of stigma associated withgoing to an HIV clinic? This
really reduces the burden ofpeople to have to go to the
clinic. Because, you know, ifyou ask someone with HIV, do you
want to go to a clinic? A lot ofthe time the answer is going to
(14:51):
be no.
So I was going to ask if youthink like this is this makes
you hopeful for kind of, notreally Moving but significantly
make the stigma reducing thestigma. Yeah,
reducing stigma and sort oflogistical challenges of
accessing care is huge,especially for these stigmatized
(15:13):
illnesses, like HIV or otherSTIs. Even. So if you can reduce
the stigma, and it's importantthat you give them an avenue to
link to care afterward. So ifyou get a positive test, that's
not very helpful, unless you'relinked to care. And I don't
recall how this initiative,specifically linked people to
(15:38):
care, after testing, but theyhad something implemented that,
that they were able to get care.
And I they said 6.5% soughtfurther STI testing. So pretty
good numbers. But pilot study.
So.
(16:01):
Yeah, so great results, hopefulfor the future and great
results, hopefully, for thefuture and
who, and I think this willunlock the door to more
any sort of flexible healthcaredelivery model that meets
patients where they are, isproductive. And so the fact that
(16:27):
this was rolled out and had suchgreat success and high
enrollment is huge. I think aswe sort of accept telehealth as
a better mode of deliveringhealth care, we will see an
increase in equitable access tohealth care across the United
States.
Do you think a lot of this isn'tin the article? Do you think a
(16:48):
lot of this was inspired by thesuccess of the at home COVID
tests?
It might have been you know, sothis this ran from March to
December 2023. I don't know themotivations behind it
specifically, but it could verywell have been, you know, an
(17:10):
initiative that stemmed fromthat. Sure. That's what I had. I
thought that was great news.
No, that is that's really cool.
We're this gonna be a quick one.
I will share mine with you mightbe a little different.
I figured it would be um,I'd say we'd put these in the in
the description book mindsbehind a paywall, because I
(17:33):
didn't think wow. Yeah, cuz it'sthe times I chose a modern love
short story. That makes me cryevery time I read it. Apply
this. Okay. That's the firstone. I asked Jack
(17:53):
to find some new news.
And he sent me a story youdidn't say new news. You say I
was published in 2019 It setnews that gives me hope. And I
coming back to this one. Okay.
This is news that gives me out.
I can actually just read it.
Because it's so short. So tinylove stories are something that
(18:14):
the New York Times publishes. Ithink it's weekly but they
published a few of them. Andthey are Modern Love, quote
unquote, which is a column aboutloves and you know, the modern
age in miniature featuringreader submitted stories of no
more than 100 words. And thisone is called he tried so hard
(18:35):
to remember me. says when mywhen my 61 year old father
learned he had Alzheimer's. Wewent to CVS together and bought
the largest stack of note cardsthey sold. I asked, What's the
town you grew up at? We wroteUnion Springs, Alabama. asked,
Who was your first kiss Amanda.
(19:00):
Four years later preparing tomove my father into memory care.
I packed up his desk. Taking thenote cards felt silly. So I
wrapped the long forgotten stackin a rubber band and opened his
drawer to toss them away. InsideI found more no cards. They all
said the same thing. My nameyes, yes. That is by Drew
(19:30):
Hassan. I believe that might notbe how he pronounces his name.
I've read that when I firstbought the book of a collection
of these love stories, and Iburst into tears. And I read it
when I'm having a bad day tomake my day worse, actually. But
(19:54):
I read it with a very specificthing. That to me II, everything
that is so beautiful abouthumanity is captured in this
little paragraphs where we try,I think just repeatedly, so hard
(20:17):
for the people that we love. Andthat is what makes the hard
moments so much harder. So like,when you lose someone, we lose,
we feel so much grief because welove them. When we get someone
(20:38):
new into the family, there is somuch joy because we you know,
hopefully in the best casescenarios, you know, we share
love. And it gives me hope forthe future. Because, like
everything so far in our livesand in the human experience, I
think that no matter whatobstacles we face, we will try
(21:03):
because of those that we love.
And that is why I come back tothis specific article. Because
it reminds me to try and thathuman beings try for those that
we love. Wow, that's sweet.
I was not expecting that.
(21:24):
I figured this wasn't what Ifigured it wouldn't be what you
were expecting. I like looked atother articles, but like, God,
everything's so depressing.
So I mean, this is a little sad.
This is depressing. I crack.
Yeah, this was a little sad. ButI think to me, that's like the
(21:45):
human. It's my human experience.
Right? We've talked about this,I think life is beautiful,
because it is both sad and good.
There are there are beautifulthings that come out not because
of the sadness, but in spite ofthem. Right. So and then there's
a picture in the article of thishuge stack of note costs, so
(22:07):
codes. Yeah. I don't know. Whatdid you think of the article?
I don't know. I think it's sad.
I think it makes me think a lotabout those that are aging in
our lives.
Yeah, I read this for the firsttime when Dida our grandfather
(22:29):
was starting to, you know, tolike he started to like be a
little bit more forgetful. Likeyou noticed that because he was
one of the sharpest people ever.
And then he started to slip afew times and I read this for
the first time. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I think neurodegenerativediseases he did not have a
neurodegenerative disease. Hehad old age but I think
(22:53):
neurodegenerative diseases arehorrible yep i A
yes use do you see hope? Wasthat was I like I don't know. I
don't really I don't seeanything but hope. It's sad.
It's a tragic ending but like tome Yeah.
(23:17):
I see hope that the best you cando is care for those you love.
Right? Much like you said,that's where that that's where
that gets me. I don't see a lotof hope for humanity in that
room. To be completely honest.
No, because I mean, think abouthow much bad there is in the
world today. I know you knowabout how much bathers
(23:40):
are we flipping right now withno I know. I know. I know. You
think about how much bad thereis in the world today. I don't
know it. How much time do youthink those people doing those
horrible things are spending.
Thinking about things like this?
Not but I can't and this is thequote you I can't think about
(24:05):
what those people are thinkingabout when they do but this
reminds me of loves resiliencywithin human beings as a whole.
I've said before, I hate peopleI love humanity. And something
like this makes me not only lovehumanity, weep for humanity, but
(24:30):
also women be have incredibleall and be inspired by what we
can do based on loves. I toldmom the other day, I told you
(24:53):
this. I think anytime someonesays To like, you're curious
about something where you ask aquestion, and I've talked about
this with you too. Or you writeabout something, I think that
takes that, that just thatlittle act takes an incredible
(25:13):
amount of love. Because to spendenough time with something that
you're going to write about,whether you're gonna think about
someone else that I think islove, and I think that's what
drives so much of you act, andpower and greed, and okay, or,
and lust, but like, this is thisis really what like, you know,
(25:35):
why don't we get out of bed inthe morning? This because this,
yaknow, what makes me interested
in this? Is I would want it tobe more than 100 words. No,
Jack Weidner (25:50):
that's, that's what makes it perfect.
Unknown (25:53):
It doesn't mean I want to know the rest of the
experience. That's it. No, thatis there. No, it's not it.
Jack Weidner (25:59):
That's it. That's, that's a no, because because the
ending is up to us. But youdon't. You want enclosure, you
have the closure. Because thepoint was contained in there.
There was a beginning. There wasa middle, there was an end. We
(26:22):
know the end we know it'ssomeone's diagnosed with
terminal cancer. Oh, you know,like, you're watching the
Titanic. What's the end? It'slike, well,
Unknown (26:31):
we know but I want to know the middle. This is that's
there's no middle. I know. Iknow. The notes are the middle I
don't know. That
Jack Weidner (26:40):
that's it's it's it is humanity. At its stripped
down bare spots.
Harry Weidner (26:48):
It's like the the alleged Hemingway for sale baby
shoes never worn
Jack Weidner (26:54):
it. Yes, this is this is called something this is
this would not be fiction. Butthere's something called flash
fiction. And this is flashnonfiction. It's a flash story.
But it's raw. You don't havetime. It is Rob fluffiness. You
know, like that. We know theends. He told us the long
(27:18):
forgotten no cards, but theright in front of him is the
proof that you know, we tryanyways. It's like why do we buy
flowers? They die. We know theend. But we appreciate them
while they're here. Yeah, thatgives me hope.
Harry Weidner (27:38):
I like that that gives you hope.
Jack Weidner (27:43):
I like to get evidence. Well,
Harry Weidner (27:47):
you know, I think it's just interesting. What you
and I have found opendifferently. I knew I knew that
this would end up we would havevery different articles are kind
of figured. You know, I didn'texpect you to go all the way
back at 2019.
Jack Weidner (28:05):
Do you know what's beautiful about that, though?
That's our disciplines. Yeah.
Like your discipline is what wasthe most recent kind of thing.
And my discipline is very muchwhat resonates? What what allows
a piece of art the power toresonate long after it has been
(28:25):
created? And what puts it inconversation with what came
before it. And why will it be inconversation with things that
happened after? Yeah.
Unknown (28:36):
Thank you for that.
Jack Weidner (28:37):
Thank you for yours.
Harry Weidner (28:39):
I appreciate.
Unknown (28:41):
I appreciate man, I always learn something from you
and learn about I learned
Jack Weidner (28:45):
a lot for you. i i HIV is something that is
fascinating that I just don'tknow enough about
Harry Weidner (28:52):
it is and you know, to go back to it. The
President's Emergency PlanPEPFAR P P. F. AR, for AIDS
Relief President's EmergencyPlan for AIDS Relief that's in
jeopardy right now.
Jack Weidner (29:07):
Who started that?
Harry Weidner (29:09):
Who? Got bush?
No, I don't know. Let's look itup. It was President Bush in
2000. Dairy President Bush overPEPFAR. So yeah, that is a huge
fund for AIDS Relief around theworld. And it's currently under
Jeopardy, because a lot ofplaces that a lot of places that
offer HIV AIDS testing andresources, also offer abortion.
(29:33):
And so the funding for PEPFAR isin this strange, weird space
where it might get defunded nowif we defund PEPFAR we are
facing terrible globalchallenges
Jack Weidner (29:51):
read and all about this when roe is overturned.
Yeah, it's not good.
Harry Weidner (29:56):
So that's, that doesn't give me any hope at all.
Well, Oh, that gives me no hopein the HIV AIDS effort around
the world and especially in theglobal south where they require
money and resources to fight.
HIV AIDS bad, bad.
Jack Weidner (30:15):
What can I can I be you for a second? Yeah, go
genomic gives me hope about whatyou just said. But that
President George Bush was theone who started that. Yeah. One
of the when you know, someoneand you don't have like, you
(30:36):
don't want to like, quote, theobvious, and they look at you,
and they're like, Am I smart?
And you're like, You're sopretty. Like, George Bush is
like the president. We're like,Oh, he's so nice. Not a lot of
great things you could say abouthim. But he did start that.
Yeah. Against what you wouldthink the Republican Party would
be okay with. What theRepublican Party was, okay,
well,
Harry Weidner (30:54):
but so think about Axolotl. Think about how
there's so much lesspolarization than how, you know,
there was so much morebipartisan support for but
things like also,
Jack Weidner (31:05):
that was coming out of polarization. Think of
how polarizing the 80s were. Imean, I mentioned Ronald Reagan
before, but like, look at howthat went. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And Bush came out of thatsame party, and that same
Republican mindset.
Harry Weidner (31:20):
But all right, 4pm. I've had a long day. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (31:26):
Let's end it. All right. Thank you so much for
sticking around. We will do ourbest to put the articles in this
description. I don't knowlegally if we're allowed to. I
guess if we cite it, we can putit we could put my article in
the description.
Harry Weidner (31:43):
I don't know there. You have come after us.
Well, then,
Jack Weidner (31:46):
I mean, it sounds like we're putting like we're
doing anything with Disney.
Disney would come after us.
Anyways, thank you so much forsticking around, and seeing how
this mess unravels. If you haveany thoughts, questions, please
email us at our20 minds@gmail.com Thank you to
the few people who have emailedus here and I read your emails
(32:09):
and they make us very happy. Wewill one day do a response to a
lot of the once we get once weget back enough. We'll do a
response. Yeah,
Harry Weidner (32:19):
we just got an absolutely beautiful email.
Yeah, from a listener and thatwas awesome. That made the whole
day made my week on Zapier rightabout it. Thank you so much for
sending that. Yeah.
Jack Weidner (32:34):
Should we name person? Okay. You're a mother of
one of our friends if you'relistening, so thank you. Yeah.
All right. Oh, Christ. Yeah,thank you. So why don't we add
this anymore? I don't know. Allright, or adds it to a setup
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