October 3, 2025 • 28 mins
Ever wondered what it really takes to do wildlife fieldwork? In this episode, head into the sagebrush with three graduate students studying shrikes, pygmy rabbits, and sagebrush songbirds. Hear about the honest, useful details: how to prep for a season that vanishes in a blur, what gear actually matters (sunshirts, yes; sandals are…controversial), and how to recover when things go sideways. This conversation shows why being there changes what we can know.
We talk about finding the right lab and advisor, applying to technician roles with volume and intention, and writing cover letters that are specific, early, and honest about gaps. You’ll hear how non-traditional students can be standout techs, why transferable skills matter, and how rolling reviews reward applicants who don’t wait for deadlines. The stories are unfiltered: a black bear on hind legs eyeing a “blood smoothie,” a near nap on a rattlesnake, a UTV dropping into a hidden creek at night. The takeaway is bigger than any mishap: fieldwork is a rite of passage that teaches judgment, resilience, and the kind of naturalist attention that turns data into understanding.
If you’re plotting your first season—or your fifteenth—you’ll get practical advice you can use tomorrow: organize goals before the rush, expect to forget something, make peace with Plan B, and invest in the people beside you at 4 a.m. Because the field isn’t just where we collect numbers; it’s where we find the questions worth asking next. Subscribe, share this with a future field tech, and tell us: what’s your must-have gear—and are you team boots or team sandals?
Links to more information:
Wyoming Cooperative Research Unit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie Perkins (00:03):
Would you spend 12 hours a day crawling through
sagebrush just to learn moreabout the world's smallest
rabbit?
What about being a walkingscent trap for black bears?
Peeping in on the secret livesof songbirds?
Fieldwork is a rite of passagefor many wildlife professionals,
and in this episode of Our WildLives, I head out into the
field with three graduatestudents to talk all things
field life (00:25):
how to prep, what to pack, and how to bounce back
when things go sideways.
We swap stories about wildencounters, field fails,
questionable fashion choices,and why you should always check
where you lay down.
If you're dreaming of yourfirst field job or looking back
on your 15th season, thisepisode is for you.
My name is Erik Schoenborn, I'm a PhD student at the University of Wyoming working with Dr. Anna Chalfoun
Clare Kuhn (01:03):
My name is Clare Kuhn.
I'm a first-year masterstudent.
Olivia Beaudette (01:06):
My name is Olivia Baudette, first year
master student, Dr.
Anna Chalfoun's lab.
Katie Perkins (01:11):
So what are each of y'all studying this field
season?
Erik Schoenborn (01:14):
So this year we're using predator cue
playbacks to simulate predatorabundance and examine how
shrikes respond to that.
Katie Perkins (01:21):
Yeah, so you've got a DJ and a rave happening of
crow calls all night long.
Yeah, yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (01:26):
I'm gonna play headphones on, like scratch the
record.
Clare Kuhn (01:29):
Yeah, yeah.
My focal species is the pygmyrabbit.
So they are the smallest rabbitwe have in the world.
And so I'm just following themand kind of seeing what are they
doing in areas that are hotteron average, what are they doing
in areas that are cooler onaverage.
Olivia Beaudette (01:44):
My project fits into a longer-running
monitoring project withsagebrush songbirds, the sage
thrasher, sagebrush sparrow, andbrewer sparrow, looking at
breeding activity, especially inareas disturbed by natural gas
development.
We're looking at how food andthese behaviors influence
(02:05):
ultimately survival after birdsleave the nests.
Yeah.
Katie Perkins (02:09):
So spending a lot of time out in the sagebrush
this summer looking at thosespecies that you kind of don't
hear a lot about.
How did all of you find thesepositions that got you out in
this field work?
Erik Schoenborn (02:20):
Well, I am kind of in a unique situation that I
worked with Anna for a fewyears prior to coming on as a
graduate student.
So I was fortunate enough tolike select the species that I
was working with.
And she and I worked togetherto build this project from the
get-go, which was reallyexciting.
Clare Kuhn (02:36):
So I kind of knew straight out of undergrad that I
wanted to continue my educationbecause although your
undergraduate studies provideyou with a really good
foundation, I felt like therewas much more for me to learn.
And so I kind of instantly, youknow, combed through to kind of
any job site where they alsopost graduate positions.
I remember seeing this positionand I was like, I don't, I
don't even know what a pygmyrabbit is.
(02:57):
And so I remembered kind ofGoogling what the pygmy rabbit
was and then being like, wow,this is probably one of the
cutest things I've ever seen.
And then kind of moving forwardand talking with Anna, meeting
with her, and I kind of realizedthat she had a group of
students that I really enjoyedtalking with.
She has fostered a labenvironment that is extremely
positive and supportive.
(03:18):
And so that's kind of whatbrought me to where I am now.
Olivia Beaudette (03:21):
I didn't know Anna coming in.
I kind of just reached out toher.
I've been doing field work fora while out of undergrad, and I
decided that that pursuing agraduate degree was something I
wanted.
So I ended up doing researchand looking into potential PIs,
and I came across Anna and herwork really resonated with me.
I've done a lot of work insagebrush systems with
(03:42):
sagegrouse and golden eagles,and I really love the sage.
So that kind of drew me in, andalso the habitat selection
aspect is something she reallyfocuses on, and also the
emphasis on providinginformation to other agencies,
land managers for conservationimplications was important for
me.
So those were kind of all thethings that drew me to her lab.
Katie Perkins (04:04):
How are y'all prepping for these field work
seasons?
They're obviously very long,hot days.
It's very mentally andphysically taxing.
What are y'all doing to prepfor that?
Erik Schoenborn (04:15):
Well, first off, it doesn't, it doesn't even
feel like that long of aseason.
It's like it goes crazy fast.
So I think the important partis to like come in fully
prepared, hit the groundrunning.
Every year I'm surprised at howshort it is, and it feels like
it blows by.
So just making sure thateverything is organized up
front, making sure you have areally good game plan and making
sure that like I have the fivethings I'm really intending to
(04:38):
get here as a pretty distractedperson.
It's easy to like go off indifferent directions.
And so, like really justlooking for what are the core
things I need to get done.
Clare Kuhn (04:48):
I think for me it was kind of a long time coming,
especially as this kind of beingmy first field season that I
myself have planned and sort oflike implemented.
And so it kind of all startedwith reading a ton of
literature, trying to be like,okay, how do we find these guys?
How do we trap them?
How do we observe them?
And so first you kind of haveto comb through the literature.
And then in terms of planninghow to get out here, it's it's a
(05:11):
lot of spreadsheets, it's a lotof post-it notes, it's a lot of
making sure that you haveeverything in order ahead of
time.
And even when you get out here,you're probably gonna forget
some things.
So it's a lot of just you know,checking, double checking,
triple checking.
And then once you get out herekind of being like, all right,
like I'm gonna have to put inlike an Amazon order, like on
like on speed order on thethings getting.
Olivia Beaudette (05:34):
I've done that.
Clare Kuhn (05:36):
Um, I agree with Eric that once you're here
though, this is kind of anenvironment that you feel really
at peace, even when you're outhere.
Because I mean, prepping forfield work is you know, it's not
a calm process.
You have to go through a lot,you have to check a lot.
But once you're out here,especially in the sage, it's
very peaceful.
But yeah, just really makingsure you get as much done ahead
(05:59):
of time as possible.
But at the same time, you willhave to kind of expect that once
you get out here, there aregonna be things you forget.
You're just gonna have to dealwith it as it goes.
Katie Perkins (06:06):
For sure.
Olivia Beaudette (06:07):
Yeah, I resonate with that, especially
just the fact that things willgo wrong, and you have to be
able to just go with it andadapt.
And sometimes, yeah, that meansplacing some panic orders
online.
Erik Schoenborn (06:21):
Um I mean, it's impossible to anticipate that
you're gonna run into when yousee an office five hours away.
And I I think especially forthese two that haven't really
been in the field, and yeah, andthen every year throws a
curveball at you like this wherewe've been having some weird
predation stuff and mortality.
So um, even if you preparereally well, things fall apart
pretty quickly.
Olivia Beaudette (06:41):
Yeah, that's just the nature of field work.
Right.
It's one thing.
Things will go wrong, you justgotta figure it out.
Katie Perkins (06:47):
So, what are some of your like must-have pieces
of gear or clothing and maybesomething that like you wouldn't
expect?
Olivia Beaudette (06:55):
Sunshirts, that's it.
Yep, that's all you need.
Yeah.
I hate putting on sunscreen,it's important, but yeah, the
most skin you can have coveredis ideal.
I'm Team Sunshirt all the time.
Erik Schoenborn (07:09):
The weird one for me would be sandals.
Katie Perkins (07:11):
Yeah, let's talk about that.
That's because I was blownaway.
Erik Schoenborn (07:16):
I don't really know what to say about that.
I like wearing sandals in thefield.
Katie Perkins (07:23):
Eric only wears sandals in the field.
Olivia Beaudette (07:25):
Is it the airflow?
Like, what about it?
Erik Schoenborn (07:27):
It's the airflow.
Katie Perkins (07:28):
He loves sand between his toes.
Erik Schoenborn (07:30):
That's why I study in the sand.
Katie Perkins (07:32):
Uh-huh.
Erik Schoenborn (07:33):
But it prompts a lot of criticism and a lot of
trap.
One of Olivia's technicians atone point in a different field
job asked me if I even know howto tie shoes.
She was like, Do you need us toshow you how to use shoelaces?
Olivia Beaudette (07:46):
None of those shoes have laces, genuinely.
Like he wears slip-on boots,sandals.
That's all I've ever seen.
Katie Perkins (07:53):
Blink twice if you need help
Erik Schoenborn (07:56):
Yeah.
Just a YouTube tutorial on shoetying skills.
Katie Perkins (08:00):
Bunny loops.
Olivia Beaudette (08:01):
It's okay.
We can practice tonight.
Erik Schoenborn (08:03):
But they're great, yeah.
Katie Perkins (08:04):
So you heard it here, folks.
Ditch the hiking boots, get thesandals.
Erik Schoenborn (08:08):
What's really funny also is every year we send
out technician letters to whenwe're like, make sure you're
well prepared to tackle the, Idon't know, the climate or
whatever.
And my technician this yearshowed up and she was like, I'm
wearing like basically swimtrunks and these tiny little
sandals.
And she was like, You made abig deal in the interview about
wearing the appropriate clothingfor the field.
(08:29):
And it looks like you're notwearing any of it.
So you Yeah.
Katie Perkins (08:32):
Maybe don't take that advice.
So when you're looking forthese jobs, are you looking for
a specific species?
Are you more interested in alocation?
Are you just trying to getwhatever you can get?
Erik Schoenborn (08:44):
I'll speak to when I used to apply to
technician jobs because I thinkat this point it's a little
different.
But I think the key withtechnician getting a job as a
field technician is just volume.
Like it's quantity.
You apply to everything youabsolutely think you might be
remotely qualified for.
Anything you think might beinteresting, because one of my
(09:05):
first field jobs was a job Idon't know that I was super
excited to do up front.
And I got it and had the bestsummer.
Katie Perkins (09:12):
Now, what were you doing?
Erik Schoenborn (09:13):
Uh avian point counts in Idaho with the
Intermountain Bird Observatory.
It was like a phenomenal fieldjob, had such a good time, but
at the time it was kind of justa throwaway application.
So would apply to everything,put your name out there, write
as many cover letters,well-written cover letters as
you possibly can.
But don't write anything off,especially when you're trying to
(09:34):
land that first job.
Katie Perkins (09:35):
What's your fast tip for a well-written cover
letter?
Erik Schoenborn (09:38):
Don't use Chat GPT.
It doesn't have to be superintense.
You don't have to put in alike, you know, I'm we're not
looking for 12 hours at workhere, but just read it through
before you send it off.
The number of cover lettersthat I I assume the other two
have gotten as well that areaddressed to like a ground
squirrel job, but have my namein the title.
You know, and it's like, okay,well, you didn't read this well
(10:01):
enough.
Olivia Beaudette (10:01):
Yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (10:01):
But I think just like be genuine.
I really enjoy cover letterswhere they kind of acknowledge
the parts of the job they're notgoing to be equipped for.
Right.
People just beingstraightforward and honest about
your situation.
If you're just trying to likepaint over your flaws, it's
painfully obvious from anoutside observer that like you
might not be qualified for thejob.
So just be real.
Katie Perkins (10:21):
Yeah, yeah.
And here's something I didn'trealize.
It's other students typicallythat are reading these cover
letters, or are most of thesetechnician jobs you're applying
to work with a grad student.
It kind of depends on the job.
Olivia Beaudette (10:33):
Yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (10:33):
But often it's like it's people that that have
been in your shoes quiterecently.
Olivia Beaudette (10:36):
Definitely.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like another thing toadd is I feel like you don't
have to have all of thetechnical skills.
A lot of skills that you havemight be transferable in some
way.
So it kind of depends on howyou kind of frame your
experience too.
And another another hot tip, Ithink.
I don't know if this is true,but I feel like it pays to put
(11:00):
in your application early.
So a lot of times on jobboards, they'll have like a due
date.
I feel like it's always goodjust to apply as soon as you can
because a lot of times they'rereviewed on a rolling basis.
So I feel like it's always agood idea just to get it in as
soon as you can.
And I feel like it gives you abetter chance.
Katie Perkins (11:18):
And what time should people be looking for
field tech positions?
What time of the year?
Olivia Beaudette (11:23):
Like months in advance of when you want to
start, I would say.
So we're talking like earlyyear, like January, February.
Yeah, that's when I startedhiring.
So yeah.
Clare Kuhn (11:33):
Yeah.
But I think something that Ifound I really valued was I did
include extra material on thejob posting, just like, you
know, a summary about, okay,this is the focal species we're
studying.
This is the area we're studyingit in.
If you indicated in your coverletter or in your interview that
you actually read through thosematerials, that shows to me
that you took the initiative toread through and it shows you're
(11:55):
really interested.
I'd say definitely when you'rewriting your cover letter, it is
important that it isprofessional, but I do value
when there is a little bit ofhumility and personality in
them.
You know, I don't, I don't wantto just be reading something
like kind of what we talkedabout earlier that was like Chat
GPT or if it was just flat.
Like I enjoy, you know, whenyou kind of tell your story of
how you got to, you know,applying to this position, I
(12:17):
find that really valuable.
But in terms of when I wasapplying for technician jobs,
I'm kind of in a uniquesituation because before this
position, like I planned afuture for myself to be a bear
biologist.
And so I was really onlyapplying for these bear
positions.
But something that I look backon now and kind of think about
is try a vast array of things.
Like Eric said, he applied fora job that he maybe thought he
(12:38):
would not have enjoyed.
But a lot of the experiencesthat you think you may not enjoy
or things that are very novelto you can end up being some of
the like most fun, you know,parts of the summer and fun most
fun part of the position.
And something that I also valuein kind of extrapolating off of
something that Eric said wasdefinitely be honest if you
don't have experience that thejob is looking for.
(13:01):
Because to me, if you comeforward and say, you know, I
want to use this job to gainthat experience, and you are
honest that you may not havethat direct trapping or handling
experience, I value if you seemlike you're willing to learn
and willing to put in thateffort.
So that's definitely somethingelse that I'd suggest for people
kind of applying in this kindof crazy job climate right now.
Erik Schoenborn (13:22):
One just additional layer to that is that
we currently have my technicianhas a degree in psychology, and
Olivia has a technician who isa filmmaker.
Olivia Beaudette (13:32):
And she's lovely.
Erik Schoenborn (13:33):
Yeah, and they're some of the they're
awesome technicians.
So often able to like evaluatea technician even if they don't
have like the exactqualifications that might be
required for that position.
Katie Perkins (13:43):
That's a really great to to point out that there
are a lot of career switchersthat really want to work in
wildlife.
So I think it's probably reallyhopeful to hear that, you know,
I'm a psychologist or afilmmaker and and I can go out
and apply for these roles.
So that was really, reallyawesome advice, y'all.
Can y'all tell me a story oflike some of the most memorable
maybe wildlife encounters ormaybe like weird people
(14:04):
encounters that you've had inthe field? What are you running
into?
Clare Kuhn (14:08):
So last summer I was working as a black bear
technician for Wyoming Game andFish.
And so we were operating in theWyoming range, which is just a
little bit further west of here.
And so I remember it was likethe final week.
And when we visit each snare,we have to refill the bait.
And so in this case, the baitwas fermented cow blood, and
then I also had lunch in my bag.
So I was kind of like a walkingtarget.
Katie Perkins (14:27):
Oh yeah, she was a bear snack waiting, just
walking around.
Clare Kuhn (14:31):
And I remember it was like during my last week, I
finally get up to this spot andI'm like in the process of
bringing the bait down,refilling it, and all of a
sudden I just hear stickssnapping like super fast, like
just and I like looked in thedirection, and like 50 yards
away from me, I just see thisblack bear pop up on its hind
legs and look at me.
(14:52):
And we just kind of look ateach other for a little bit and
we're like, What are you doinghere?
In an instant like that, I justkind of went, Oh, hey bear,
like I'm right over here.
I don't want to surprise you,but I'm probably where you want
to be right now.
And so he it ended up dropping,coming a little bit closer,
popping back up, and again hadeye contact, muted, like, hey
(15:12):
bear, like I'm over here.
And then it just kind of ranoff.
So I finished the job, and as Istarted processing the snare,
the hair was super dark black,and that bear was had a super
dark black kind of pellage.
And so I was like, he was justwaiting for his blood smoothie.
He was waiting for his refill,and I was holding him back from
(15:32):
getting his lovely smoothie.
Katie Perkins (15:34):
It's like that awkward moment when you think
the DoorDash delivery driver hasleft and you open the door and
you're both just like looking ateach other.
That's exactly what that was.
Clare Kuhn (15:43):
That's probably the most entertaining or memorable
kind of wildlife encounter I'vehad while in the field.
Olivia Beaudette (15:48):
I feel like one particularly memorable
wildlife encounter was when Iwas on a sage grouse job and I
was doing some veg surveys outin the sage.
And one aspect of these surveysis you had to place a like a
checkerboard in variouslocations and see like how
visible the squares were just tocheck like how dense the
(16:12):
vegetation was.
And this involved laying downon the ground and looking at it
from like a zero-degree angleessentially.
And I did that and almost laiddown on a rattlesnake.
And the funny thing was that Iwas also voice recording at the
time, so I caught my reaction onthe voice recording, which was
(16:32):
very funny.
Katie Perkins (16:33):
I need you to send me that one.
Olivia Beaudette (16:35):
I don't have it anymore.
It it left with my field phone.
Yeah, very sad.
I never saved it, but it wasyeah, it was funny.
Erik Schoenborn (16:42):
I've had like a number of pretty interesting
wildlife encounters.
I I think one that stands outis I watched a golden eagle
predate a pronghorn.
That was a pretty wild thing towatch.
Uh, but I I think increasinglyso I I do I think I've often
been in a scenario where we'relike a bunch of wildlife
biologists sitting around andtalking about like their crazy
wildlife stories.
(17:02):
I think at this point there's alot of crazy things that you
see out in the field, but Ithink some of the more important
or like the more enjoyablemoments I have interacting with
wildlife are like a lot moremundane and a lot less like it
doesn't make quite as good of astory to say this morning I
looked at a gray fly catcher fora while, but like those are
kind of the moments that reallystart to stand out as you kind
(17:23):
of like get further down thiscareer path, I guess.
Katie Perkins (17:26):
Yeah, awesome.
Field fails.
We've all had them.
Give us a funny story.
Olivia Beaudette (17:31):
I feel like most days I have a field fail in
some capacity.
Clare Kuhn (17:35):
So we're I guess I can kind of speak to one that
happened this year.
We were going to a point thatactually Erik sent, and he was
like, This is a really greatlooking drainage, it has really
great sage, like you shouldcheck it out.
And so we were taking, we weretaking the two track on our way
out, and we get to the pointwhere the two track just
disappears.
And you know, to the pointwhere the two track should be
(17:55):
going, there's like a drainage,but it's it's dried out, or so
we thought.
And so we're like, we kind ofcanvassed the area, we stepped
out on the drainage, we werelike, okay, this seems solid
enough, like this should befine.
We take the truck in,immediately just sinks down two
feet to the point of like thebottom of the truck.
And so I ring up Erik and I'mlike, and I ended up like waking
him up.
I was like, we're stuck andwe're pretty, far south Um, and
(18:18):
so while he was you know gettingready, coming this way after I
woke him up.
I just looked at my technicianand I was like, all right, we
need we need to get to work.
And so what we ended up doingis we drove the truck a little
bit forward to kind of open thearea behind the wheels, and I
was like, all right, we'regrabbing dead sage and we're
grabbing cow pies and we arelayering it up.
I don't know how many cow pieswe grabbed, I don't know how
(18:39):
much dead sage we grabbed.
And there was a point where Iwas on my stomach scooping out
the clay with my bare hands totry to form like a ramp that
would be, you know, easy to getup.
And then Erik was like 20minutes out, and I was like, So,
Erik, I'm so sorry, but we gotout.
No, I'll get you a pack of beerwhen we're back.
(19:00):
Poor Erik.
But thankfully, most of myfield fails thus far have been
vehicles, and I've been able tokind of finagle my way out of
them.
But it was definitely humblinggrabbing cow pies with my bare
hands and laying on the ground.
Katie Perkins (19:11):
Note to self, don't let Clare drive your car.
Olivia Beaudette (19:15):
I uh drove a UTV into a a creek once.
Um, accidentally, of course.
I didn't know there was acreek.
It was in the middle of winter,and there was snow covering
some like runoff, and I droveover the section and it
collapsed, and we ended up in alittle creek um in the middle of
the night as well because wewere doing night work.
Katie Perkins (19:37):
Oh my god.
So it was colds and wet, and wecouldn't, yeah, we didn't have
any luck getting it out, so wejust left it there and hiked
out.
Um yeah.
Sounds horrible.
Olivia Beaudette (19:49):
Yep.
Erik Schoenborn (19:49):
Have a pretty lengthy list of embarrassing
moments.
Definitely think I mess up likeat least once a day, if not
more.
And I think that like uh yeah,it's the list is so long at this
point that I don't even reallykeep track of how many things
I've messed up at this point.
Olivia Beaudette (20:03):
Another one.
Erik Schoenborn (20:04):
Yeah.
I think some of the moreawkward moments have been
bathroom moments where I thoughtI was alone.
Katie Perkins (20:10):
Oh no.
Erik Schoenborn (20:11):
I think like we'll just leave it at that.
But moments where I felt verycomfortable going to the
bathroom and should not havefelt all that comfortable.
Katie Perkins (20:20):
I think that's so typical of one of the big
things that's so important aboutfield work is that you learn so
much, and even if a lot of thatis by making mistakes, and and
that's so important to just keepmoving forward even after
you've made those mistakes,because that's how you become a
better scientist.
Erik Schoenborn (20:36):
My technician just was admitting to me
recently that she was like, Man,I just feel like I've messed up
a lot, and I just kind of keepfumbling some things.
And I was like, I'm messing uptwice as often as you are.
Olivia Beaudette (20:47):
I'm just not telling you.
I'm just not telling you.
That's so true.
Erik Schoenborn (20:50):
She has an obligation of telling me about
her failures, and I just keep myfailures nice and hidden.
Olivia Beaudette (20:55):
Yeah, you don't need to, yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (20:57):
Just sweeping dust over.
Olivia Beaudette (20:59):
So yeah, that is so true.
Katie Perkins (21:01):
What you're so excited to come back and do more
work out in the field everyseason.
Is it your favorite part ofwhat you do?
Is it, you know, something youtolerate?
Olivia Beaudette (21:09):
I feel like you keep learning new things,
even regardless of how how longyou've spent in a system.
As part of my project, I'vebeen putting out cameras on
nests, and I feel like it's soexciting to get a glimpse into
something that you normallydon't see.
And I've observed so many coolbehaviors that birds are
exhibiting that I never knewthey did.
(21:31):
I think those little, littletidbits where you're like, wow,
I never knew they did those sortof things are so fun and
exciting.
Katie Perkins (21:38):
Definitely.
Clare Kuhn (21:38):
Yeah, the field is definitely my favorite part.
Like, yeah, classes areimportant, but if I had it my
way, I'd be out here year-roundfor sure.
I think there's just somethingabout being out there with your
study species, looking for themand kind of being in the same
area that they are.
I find it very calming.
Even if, you know, I go a fullday without seeing any pygmy
rabbits.
I'm still pretty like, okay,I'm gonna go over this ridge and
there's gonna be one, even ifthere isn't one.
(22:00):
Like, what a beautiful, like itwas such a beautiful day and
stuff like that.
And so I think that'sdefinitely part of it.
I just kind of have thispreference and just love for
just being outside and like thisposition allows me to do that.
And I wish, yeah, again, I wishit was year-round.
I wish it was every day.
Erik Schoenborn (22:16):
I think like being in the field is so
enjoyable.
Um, just on face value, it'sreally nice to just walk around
and look at birds.
Every time I'm out here,there's like for every one
question we kind of start tochip away at, there's like 10
more that come up.
And it's so fun just going outthere and thinking, I wonder why
that's occurring.
Trying to evaluate how capableI might be of answering that.
(22:38):
Likely not that capable.
But um, you know, like justkind of diving in more.
So kind of what Olivia wassaying, where when you get to
make these really interestingobservations and watch these
animals doing their thing, it itkind of like sparks a lot of
different questions.
And the hard thing, I think, atthis point is to like stop.
So Mila's questions and hisquestions, these are the two
(22:59):
we're doing.
Olivia Beaudette (22:59):
Focus, Erik, focus.
Erik Schoenborn (23:01):
But that is what's so exciting about being
out here is you have theseobservations and you get to take
that back to the office overthe winter and think why did
that occur and dig into theliterature and come up with
generate more and new excitingquestions.
Katie Perkins (23:13):
Yeah, talk more about you know, why we do field
work and what are the broaderimplications of of why it's so
important to spend this time outhere and and really dive into
these kind of studies.
Erik Schoenborn (23:24):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of papers that
are put out that are peopleanalyzing existing data sets,
and I think that those aretremendously valuable and they
contribute a lot to the field.
But I think often times reallyhaving your finger on the pulse
and watching these interactionsout there in the field offers a
lot.
And I think on top of offeringscience a lot, it also just
(23:46):
offers you a lot in terms oflearning how to work with these
species, trying to understandthe system you're working in.
Um, so I think being in thefield is tremendously valuable,
both on the science end, butalso just as naturalists and
people who are trying to observethese species and care about
them.
And then I think just from amental health perspective, it
really helps me to just sit outthere and watch birds half the
(24:07):
day.
So that's I think that thevalue of that cannot be
overstated.
Katie Perkins (24:11):
That's so well said, Eric.
Clare Kuhn (24:12):
Working with a species that has such a limited
amount of literature on it, youknow, I've read all of it and I
come out here and I see thingsthat I'm like, this isn't
consistent with what they'resaying.
And so I kind of have to putmyself in a position and kind of
what Erik was talking aboutearlier.
I'm asking myself new questionsthat haven't been answered.
I'm coming up with newquestions.
I think I've asked Anna to addlike five additional questions
(24:32):
onto my thesis, and of courseshe said no.
But it's just because you comeout here and you realize there's
so much more to a species thanwhat you'd get from just reading
the published literature.
There's always more to find andthere's always more to ask.
And so I think that that's whyfield work is really important.
And, you know, for a specieslike the pygmy rabbit, which
very cryptic, very hard to trackdown, you know, there's really
(24:55):
some species are just inherentlyso difficult to study just
using into the existingliterature, existing data sets.
And I feel like we're in such achanging world that you kind of
need to go out.
You need to see how they'redoing right now.
Like how they were doing a yearago might be different from how
they're doing right now.
So I think field work justreally, you know, helps you
encapsulate what the animal'sexperiencing, what they're going
(25:15):
through, and then kind of fillsus in as much as possible on
okay, this is what's going on,this is what we can do, and
these are the questions we'renow asking based on what we're
seeing.
Olivia Beaudette (25:23):
I also think there's a lot of value in
learning, as a graduate student,learning how to conduct a field
project too, and kind of all ofthe things that go into it.
What sort of data are youcollecting?
What questions will those dataanswer?
So I think it's just reallyhelps to think critically and
(25:45):
more about your project by goingthrough the motions of field
work.
Katie Perkins (25:49):
Yeah.
For sure.
A s we wrap up, what are likeyour fast fact, fast advice to,
you know, maybe someone gettingout in the field for the first
time, maybe someone who didn'thave a good field experience is
gonna give it a go again.
What advice would you givethem?
Erik Schoenborn (26:04):
Most field jobs, whether they're the best
field job or the worst, havesome really big pros.
Like there are some really funaspects, even to the toughest
jobs.
So I think if you kind ofeliminate those expectations and
just go into it and take it infor what it is and get the
experience you can and enjoyyourself where you can, you're
gonna be much better off thanlike, you know, going into any
(26:25):
job and having this like, we'regonna capture animals every day
and we're gonna be walkingaround in tropical rainforest.
Like just go in there and enjoythe parts that are gonna be
good because there are gonna besome bad parts and you need to
like kind of come to terms withthat.
Clare Kuhn (26:39):
I think I personally, every field season
I've had, I've had a week whereI'm like, oh my god, I can't do
this.
I I need to leave, like I can'tdo this, like this isn't gonna
work.
And it's normal to have thosefeelings, it's normal to go
through them.
And I mean, the best advice Ican really give is just hold on,
make the most out of theexperience that you have, even
if it is a little rough, likefind the good things, you know,
(27:02):
that you that you're goingthrough.
And but also the mutualunderstanding of field work
isn't easy work, it's tough.
And so, you know, you may haveto kind of develop more grit.
And if it goes against yourexpectations, just kind of tough
through it.
But there are ways to make surethat you kind of get the most
out of it for yourself and thatyou, you know, can do all you
can to make it enjoyable.
Olivia Beaudette (27:22):
Yeah, I feel like some of my most memorable
field experiences have come fromtimes where I've said yes to
different offers or experiencesthat people have just come up to
me and been like, hey, you wantto tag along and do this?
Or I feel like there's a lot ofvalue in just being flexible
(27:46):
and a lot of cool, fun, excitingexperiences come from that.
Another thing that I think isreally important about field
work, so there's the job, butthere's also the people and the
people and forming relationshipswith people, especially in this
field, is really important.
I have some truly lifelongfriends from prior field jobs.
(28:07):
So I feel like embracing kindof the social aspects of field
work too is very important.
Katie Perkins (28:12):
Definitely agree.
Well, thanks, y'all.
This was awesome.
Thank you.
Any any parting words?
Olivia Beaudette (28:17):
Get out in the field.
Katie Perkins (28:18):
There you go.
Clare Kuhn (28:30):
Olivia and I will have field positions open next
summers.
Uh yeah.
Katie Perkins (28:35):
If you want to live in Pinedale
Oliv (28:35):
Check Texas A&M job board
in early February or lateJanuary.
Olivia Beaudette (28:41):
Reviewing apps immediately.
Do not wait.
Would you spend 12 hours a day crawling through
sagebrush just to learn moreabout the world's smallest
rabbit?
What about being a walkingscent trap for black bears?
Peeping in on the secret livesof songbirds?
Fieldwork is a rite of passagefor many wildlife professionals,
and in this episode of Our WildLives, I head out into the
field with three graduatestudents to talk all things
field life (00:25):
how to prep, what to pack, and how to bounce back
when things go sideways.
We swap stories about wildencounters, field fails,
questionable fashion choices,and why you should always check
where you lay down.
If you're dreaming of yourfirst field job or looking back
on your 15th season, thisepisode is for you.
My name is Erik Schoenborn, I'm a PhD student at the University of Wyoming working with Dr. Anna Chalfoun
Clare Kuhn (01:03):
My name is Clare Kuhn.
I'm a first-year masterstudent.
Olivia Beaudette (01:06):
My name is Olivia Baudette, first year
master student, Dr.
Anna Chalfoun's lab.
Katie Perkins (01:11):
So what are each of y'all studying this field
season?
Erik Schoenborn (01:14):
So this year we're using predator cue
playbacks to simulate predatorabundance and examine how
shrikes respond to that.
Katie Perkins (01:21):
Yeah, so you've got a DJ and a rave happening of
crow calls all night long.
Yeah, yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (01:26):
I'm gonna play headphones on, like scratch the
record.
Clare Kuhn (01:29):
Yeah, yeah.
My focal species is the pygmyrabbit.
So they are the smallest rabbitwe have in the world.
And so I'm just following themand kind of seeing what are they
doing in areas that are hotteron average, what are they doing
in areas that are cooler onaverage.
Olivia Beaudette (01:44):
My project fits into a longer-running
monitoring project withsagebrush songbirds, the sage
thrasher, sagebrush sparrow, andbrewer sparrow, looking at
breeding activity, especially inareas disturbed by natural gas
development.
We're looking at how food andthese behaviors influence
(02:05):
ultimately survival after birdsleave the nests.
Yeah.
Katie Perkins (02:09):
So spending a lot of time out in the sagebrush
this summer looking at thosespecies that you kind of don't
hear a lot about.
How did all of you find thesepositions that got you out in
this field work?
Erik Schoenborn (02:20):
Well, I am kind of in a unique situation that I
worked with Anna for a fewyears prior to coming on as a
graduate student.
So I was fortunate enough tolike select the species that I
was working with.
And she and I worked togetherto build this project from the
get-go, which was reallyexciting.
Clare Kuhn (02:36):
So I kind of knew straight out of undergrad that I
wanted to continue my educationbecause although your
undergraduate studies provideyou with a really good
foundation, I felt like therewas much more for me to learn.
And so I kind of instantly, youknow, combed through to kind of
any job site where they alsopost graduate positions.
I remember seeing this positionand I was like, I don't, I
don't even know what a pygmyrabbit is.
(02:57):
And so I remembered kind ofGoogling what the pygmy rabbit
was and then being like, wow,this is probably one of the
cutest things I've ever seen.
And then kind of moving forwardand talking with Anna, meeting
with her, and I kind of realizedthat she had a group of
students that I really enjoyedtalking with.
She has fostered a labenvironment that is extremely
positive and supportive.
(03:18):
And so that's kind of whatbrought me to where I am now.
Olivia Beaudette (03:21):
I didn't know Anna coming in.
I kind of just reached out toher.
I've been doing field work fora while out of undergrad, and I
decided that that pursuing agraduate degree was something I
wanted.
So I ended up doing researchand looking into potential PIs,
and I came across Anna and herwork really resonated with me.
I've done a lot of work insagebrush systems with
(03:42):
sagegrouse and golden eagles,and I really love the sage.
So that kind of drew me in, andalso the habitat selection
aspect is something she reallyfocuses on, and also the
emphasis on providinginformation to other agencies,
land managers for conservationimplications was important for
me.
So those were kind of all thethings that drew me to her lab.
Katie Perkins (04:04):
How are y'all prepping for these field work
seasons?
They're obviously very long,hot days.
It's very mentally andphysically taxing.
What are y'all doing to prepfor that?
Erik Schoenborn (04:15):
Well, first off, it doesn't, it doesn't even
feel like that long of aseason.
It's like it goes crazy fast.
So I think the important partis to like come in fully
prepared, hit the groundrunning.
Every year I'm surprised at howshort it is, and it feels like
it blows by.
So just making sure thateverything is organized up
front, making sure you have areally good game plan and making
sure that like I have the fivethings I'm really intending to
(04:38):
get here as a pretty distractedperson.
It's easy to like go off indifferent directions.
And so, like really justlooking for what are the core
things I need to get done.
Clare Kuhn (04:48):
I think for me it was kind of a long time coming,
especially as this kind of beingmy first field season that I
myself have planned and sort oflike implemented.
And so it kind of all startedwith reading a ton of
literature, trying to be like,okay, how do we find these guys?
How do we trap them?
How do we observe them?
And so first you kind of haveto comb through the literature.
And then in terms of planninghow to get out here, it's it's a
(05:11):
lot of spreadsheets, it's a lotof post-it notes, it's a lot of
making sure that you haveeverything in order ahead of
time.
And even when you get out here,you're probably gonna forget
some things.
So it's a lot of just you know,checking, double checking,
triple checking.
And then once you get out herekind of being like, all right,
like I'm gonna have to put inlike an Amazon order, like on
like on speed order on thethings getting.
Olivia Beaudette (05:34):
I've done that.
Clare Kuhn (05:36):
Um, I agree with Eric that once you're here
though, this is kind of anenvironment that you feel really
at peace, even when you're outhere.
Because I mean, prepping forfield work is you know, it's not
a calm process.
You have to go through a lot,you have to check a lot.
But once you're out here,especially in the sage, it's
very peaceful.
But yeah, just really makingsure you get as much done ahead
(05:59):
of time as possible.
But at the same time, you willhave to kind of expect that once
you get out here, there aregonna be things you forget.
You're just gonna have to dealwith it as it goes.
Katie Perkins (06:06):
For sure.
Olivia Beaudette (06:07):
Yeah, I resonate with that, especially
just the fact that things willgo wrong, and you have to be
able to just go with it andadapt.
And sometimes, yeah, that meansplacing some panic orders
online.
Erik Schoenborn (06:21):
Um I mean, it's impossible to anticipate that
you're gonna run into when yousee an office five hours away.
And I I think especially forthese two that haven't really
been in the field, and yeah, andthen every year throws a
curveball at you like this wherewe've been having some weird
predation stuff and mortality.
So um, even if you preparereally well, things fall apart
pretty quickly.
Olivia Beaudette (06:41):
Yeah, that's just the nature of field work.
Right.
It's one thing.
Things will go wrong, you justgotta figure it out.
Katie Perkins (06:47):
So, what are some of your like must-have pieces
of gear or clothing and maybesomething that like you wouldn't
expect?
Olivia Beaudette (06:55):
Sunshirts, that's it.
Yep, that's all you need.
Yeah.
I hate putting on sunscreen,it's important, but yeah, the
most skin you can have coveredis ideal.
I'm Team Sunshirt all the time.
Erik Schoenborn (07:09):
The weird one for me would be sandals.
Katie Perkins (07:11):
Yeah, let's talk about that.
That's because I was blownaway.
Erik Schoenborn (07:16):
I don't really know what to say about that.
I like wearing sandals in thefield.
Katie Perkins (07:23):
Eric only wears sandals in the field.
Olivia Beaudette (07:25):
Is it the airflow?
Like, what about it?
Erik Schoenborn (07:27):
It's the airflow.
Katie Perkins (07:28):
He loves sand between his toes.
Erik Schoenborn (07:30):
That's why I study in the sand.
Katie Perkins (07:32):
Uh-huh.
Erik Schoenborn (07:33):
But it prompts a lot of criticism and a lot of
trap.
One of Olivia's technicians atone point in a different field
job asked me if I even know howto tie shoes.
She was like, Do you need us toshow you how to use shoelaces?
Olivia Beaudette (07:46):
None of those shoes have laces, genuinely.
Like he wears slip-on boots,sandals.
That's all I've ever seen.
Katie Perkins (07:53):
Blink twice if you need help
Erik Schoenborn (07:56):
Yeah.
Just a YouTube tutorial on shoetying skills.
Katie Perkins (08:00):
Bunny loops.
Olivia Beaudette (08:01):
It's okay.
We can practice tonight.
Erik Schoenborn (08:03):
But they're great, yeah.
Katie Perkins (08:04):
So you heard it here, folks.
Ditch the hiking boots, get thesandals.
Erik Schoenborn (08:08):
What's really funny also is every year we send
out technician letters to whenwe're like, make sure you're
well prepared to tackle the, Idon't know, the climate or
whatever.
And my technician this yearshowed up and she was like, I'm
wearing like basically swimtrunks and these tiny little
sandals.
And she was like, You made abig deal in the interview about
wearing the appropriate clothingfor the field.
(08:29):
And it looks like you're notwearing any of it.
So you Yeah.
Katie Perkins (08:32):
Maybe don't take that advice.
So when you're looking forthese jobs, are you looking for
a specific species?
Are you more interested in alocation?
Are you just trying to getwhatever you can get?
Erik Schoenborn (08:44):
I'll speak to when I used to apply to
technician jobs because I thinkat this point it's a little
different.
But I think the key withtechnician getting a job as a
field technician is just volume.
Like it's quantity.
You apply to everything youabsolutely think you might be
remotely qualified for.
Anything you think might beinteresting, because one of my
(09:05):
first field jobs was a job Idon't know that I was super
excited to do up front.
And I got it and had the bestsummer.
Katie Perkins (09:12):
Now, what were you doing?
Erik Schoenborn (09:13):
Uh avian point counts in Idaho with the
Intermountain Bird Observatory.
It was like a phenomenal fieldjob, had such a good time, but
at the time it was kind of justa throwaway application.
So would apply to everything,put your name out there, write
as many cover letters,well-written cover letters as
you possibly can.
But don't write anything off,especially when you're trying to
(09:34):
land that first job.
Katie Perkins (09:35):
What's your fast tip for a well-written cover
letter?
Erik Schoenborn (09:38):
Don't use Chat GPT.
It doesn't have to be superintense.
You don't have to put in alike, you know, I'm we're not
looking for 12 hours at workhere, but just read it through
before you send it off.
The number of cover lettersthat I I assume the other two
have gotten as well that areaddressed to like a ground
squirrel job, but have my namein the title.
You know, and it's like, okay,well, you didn't read this well
(10:01):
enough.
Olivia Beaudette (10:01):
Yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (10:01):
But I think just like be genuine.
I really enjoy cover letterswhere they kind of acknowledge
the parts of the job they're notgoing to be equipped for.
Right.
People just beingstraightforward and honest about
your situation.
If you're just trying to likepaint over your flaws, it's
painfully obvious from anoutside observer that like you
might not be qualified for thejob.
So just be real.
Katie Perkins (10:21):
Yeah, yeah.
And here's something I didn'trealize.
It's other students typicallythat are reading these cover
letters, or are most of thesetechnician jobs you're applying
to work with a grad student.
It kind of depends on the job.
Olivia Beaudette (10:33):
Yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (10:33):
But often it's like it's people that that have
been in your shoes quiterecently.
Olivia Beaudette (10:36):
Definitely.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like another thing toadd is I feel like you don't
have to have all of thetechnical skills.
A lot of skills that you havemight be transferable in some
way.
So it kind of depends on howyou kind of frame your
experience too.
And another another hot tip, Ithink.
I don't know if this is true,but I feel like it pays to put
(11:00):
in your application early.
So a lot of times on jobboards, they'll have like a due
date.
I feel like it's always goodjust to apply as soon as you can
because a lot of times they'rereviewed on a rolling basis.
So I feel like it's always agood idea just to get it in as
soon as you can.
And I feel like it gives you abetter chance.
Katie Perkins (11:18):
And what time should people be looking for
field tech positions?
What time of the year?
Olivia Beaudette (11:23):
Like months in advance of when you want to
start, I would say.
So we're talking like earlyyear, like January, February.
Yeah, that's when I startedhiring.
So yeah.
Clare Kuhn (11:33):
Yeah.
But I think something that Ifound I really valued was I did
include extra material on thejob posting, just like, you
know, a summary about, okay,this is the focal species we're
studying.
This is the area we're studyingit in.
If you indicated in your coverletter or in your interview that
you actually read through thosematerials, that shows to me
that you took the initiative toread through and it shows you're
(11:55):
really interested.
I'd say definitely when you'rewriting your cover letter, it is
important that it isprofessional, but I do value
when there is a little bit ofhumility and personality in
them.
You know, I don't, I don't wantto just be reading something
like kind of what we talkedabout earlier that was like Chat
GPT or if it was just flat.
Like I enjoy, you know, whenyou kind of tell your story of
how you got to, you know,applying to this position, I
(12:17):
find that really valuable.
But in terms of when I wasapplying for technician jobs,
I'm kind of in a uniquesituation because before this
position, like I planned afuture for myself to be a bear
biologist.
And so I was really onlyapplying for these bear
positions.
But something that I look backon now and kind of think about
is try a vast array of things.
Like Eric said, he applied fora job that he maybe thought he
(12:38):
would not have enjoyed.
But a lot of the experiencesthat you think you may not enjoy
or things that are very novelto you can end up being some of
the like most fun, you know,parts of the summer and fun most
fun part of the position.
And something that I also valuein kind of extrapolating off of
something that Eric said wasdefinitely be honest if you
don't have experience that thejob is looking for.
(13:01):
Because to me, if you comeforward and say, you know, I
want to use this job to gainthat experience, and you are
honest that you may not havethat direct trapping or handling
experience, I value if you seemlike you're willing to learn
and willing to put in thateffort.
So that's definitely somethingelse that I'd suggest for people
kind of applying in this kindof crazy job climate right now.
Erik Schoenborn (13:22):
One just additional layer to that is that
we currently have my technicianhas a degree in psychology, and
Olivia has a technician who isa filmmaker.
Olivia Beaudette (13:32):
And she's lovely.
Erik Schoenborn (13:33):
Yeah, and they're some of the they're
awesome technicians.
So often able to like evaluatea technician even if they don't
have like the exactqualifications that might be
required for that position.
Katie Perkins (13:43):
That's a really great to to point out that there
are a lot of career switchersthat really want to work in
wildlife.
So I think it's probably reallyhopeful to hear that, you know,
I'm a psychologist or afilmmaker and and I can go out
and apply for these roles.
So that was really, reallyawesome advice, y'all.
Can y'all tell me a story oflike some of the most memorable
maybe wildlife encounters ormaybe like weird people
(14:04):
encounters that you've had inthe field? What are you running
into?
Clare Kuhn (14:08):
So last summer I was working as a black bear
technician for Wyoming Game andFish.
And so we were operating in theWyoming range, which is just a
little bit further west of here.
And so I remember it was likethe final week.
And when we visit each snare,we have to refill the bait.
And so in this case, the baitwas fermented cow blood, and
then I also had lunch in my bag.
So I was kind of like a walkingtarget.
Katie Perkins (14:27):
Oh yeah, she was a bear snack waiting, just
walking around.
Clare Kuhn (14:31):
And I remember it was like during my last week, I
finally get up to this spot andI'm like in the process of
bringing the bait down,refilling it, and all of a
sudden I just hear stickssnapping like super fast, like
just and I like looked in thedirection, and like 50 yards
away from me, I just see thisblack bear pop up on its hind
legs and look at me.
(14:52):
And we just kind of look ateach other for a little bit and
we're like, What are you doinghere?
In an instant like that, I justkind of went, Oh, hey bear,
like I'm right over here.
I don't want to surprise you,but I'm probably where you want
to be right now.
And so he it ended up dropping,coming a little bit closer,
popping back up, and again hadeye contact, muted, like, hey
(15:12):
bear, like I'm over here.
And then it just kind of ranoff.
So I finished the job, and as Istarted processing the snare,
the hair was super dark black,and that bear was had a super
dark black kind of pellage.
And so I was like, he was justwaiting for his blood smoothie.
He was waiting for his refill,and I was holding him back from
(15:32):
getting his lovely smoothie.
Katie Perkins (15:34):
It's like that awkward moment when you think
the DoorDash delivery driver hasleft and you open the door and
you're both just like looking ateach other.
That's exactly what that was.
Clare Kuhn (15:43):
That's probably the most entertaining or memorable
kind of wildlife encounter I'vehad while in the field.
Olivia Beaudette (15:48):
I feel like one particularly memorable
wildlife encounter was when Iwas on a sage grouse job and I
was doing some veg surveys outin the sage.
And one aspect of these surveysis you had to place a like a
checkerboard in variouslocations and see like how
visible the squares were just tocheck like how dense the
(16:12):
vegetation was.
And this involved laying downon the ground and looking at it
from like a zero-degree angleessentially.
And I did that and almost laiddown on a rattlesnake.
And the funny thing was that Iwas also voice recording at the
time, so I caught my reaction onthe voice recording, which was
(16:32):
very funny.
Katie Perkins (16:33):
I need you to send me that one.
Olivia Beaudette (16:35):
I don't have it anymore.
It it left with my field phone.
Yeah, very sad.
I never saved it, but it wasyeah, it was funny.
Erik Schoenborn (16:42):
I've had like a number of pretty interesting
wildlife encounters.
I I think one that stands outis I watched a golden eagle
predate a pronghorn.
That was a pretty wild thing towatch.
Uh, but I I think increasinglyso I I do I think I've often
been in a scenario where we'relike a bunch of wildlife
biologists sitting around andtalking about like their crazy
wildlife stories.
(17:02):
I think at this point there's alot of crazy things that you
see out in the field, but Ithink some of the more important
or like the more enjoyablemoments I have interacting with
wildlife are like a lot moremundane and a lot less like it
doesn't make quite as good of astory to say this morning I
looked at a gray fly catcher fora while, but like those are
kind of the moments that reallystart to stand out as you kind
(17:23):
of like get further down thiscareer path, I guess.
Katie Perkins (17:26):
Yeah, awesome.
Field fails.
We've all had them.
Give us a funny story.
Olivia Beaudette (17:31):
I feel like most days I have a field fail in
some capacity.
Clare Kuhn (17:35):
So we're I guess I can kind of speak to one that
happened this year.
We were going to a point thatactually Erik sent, and he was
like, This is a really greatlooking drainage, it has really
great sage, like you shouldcheck it out.
And so we were taking, we weretaking the two track on our way
out, and we get to the pointwhere the two track just
disappears.
And you know, to the pointwhere the two track should be
(17:55):
going, there's like a drainage,but it's it's dried out, or so
we thought.
And so we're like, we kind ofcanvassed the area, we stepped
out on the drainage, we werelike, okay, this seems solid
enough, like this should befine.
We take the truck in,immediately just sinks down two
feet to the point of like thebottom of the truck.
And so I ring up Erik and I'mlike, and I ended up like waking
him up.
I was like, we're stuck andwe're pretty, far south Um, and
(18:18):
so while he was you know gettingready, coming this way after I
woke him up.
I just looked at my technicianand I was like, all right, we
need we need to get to work.
And so what we ended up doingis we drove the truck a little
bit forward to kind of open thearea behind the wheels, and I
was like, all right, we'regrabbing dead sage and we're
grabbing cow pies and we arelayering it up.
I don't know how many cow pieswe grabbed, I don't know how
(18:39):
much dead sage we grabbed.
And there was a point where Iwas on my stomach scooping out
the clay with my bare hands totry to form like a ramp that
would be, you know, easy to getup.
And then Erik was like 20minutes out, and I was like, So,
Erik, I'm so sorry, but we gotout.
No, I'll get you a pack of beerwhen we're back.
(19:00):
Poor Erik.
But thankfully, most of myfield fails thus far have been
vehicles, and I've been able tokind of finagle my way out of
them.
But it was definitely humblinggrabbing cow pies with my bare
hands and laying on the ground.
Katie Perkins (19:11):
Note to self, don't let Clare drive your car.
Olivia Beaudette (19:15):
I uh drove a UTV into a a creek once.
Um, accidentally, of course.
I didn't know there was acreek.
It was in the middle of winter,and there was snow covering
some like runoff, and I droveover the section and it
collapsed, and we ended up in alittle creek um in the middle of
the night as well because wewere doing night work.
Katie Perkins (19:37):
Oh my god.
So it was colds and wet, and wecouldn't, yeah, we didn't have
any luck getting it out, so wejust left it there and hiked
out.
Um yeah.
Sounds horrible.
Olivia Beaudette (19:49):
Yep.
Erik Schoenborn (19:49):
Have a pretty lengthy list of embarrassing
moments.
Definitely think I mess up likeat least once a day, if not
more.
And I think that like uh yeah,it's the list is so long at this
point that I don't even reallykeep track of how many things
I've messed up at this point.
Olivia Beaudette (20:03):
Another one.
Erik Schoenborn (20:04):
Yeah.
I think some of the moreawkward moments have been
bathroom moments where I thoughtI was alone.
Katie Perkins (20:10):
Oh no.
Erik Schoenborn (20:11):
I think like we'll just leave it at that.
But moments where I felt verycomfortable going to the
bathroom and should not havefelt all that comfortable.
Katie Perkins (20:20):
I think that's so typical of one of the big
things that's so important aboutfield work is that you learn so
much, and even if a lot of thatis by making mistakes, and and
that's so important to just keepmoving forward even after
you've made those mistakes,because that's how you become a
better scientist.
Erik Schoenborn (20:36):
My technician just was admitting to me
recently that she was like, Man,I just feel like I've messed up
a lot, and I just kind of keepfumbling some things.
And I was like, I'm messing uptwice as often as you are.
Olivia Beaudette (20:47):
I'm just not telling you.
I'm just not telling you.
That's so true.
Erik Schoenborn (20:50):
She has an obligation of telling me about
her failures, and I just keep myfailures nice and hidden.
Olivia Beaudette (20:55):
Yeah, you don't need to, yeah.
Erik Schoenborn (20:57):
Just sweeping dust over.
Olivia Beaudette (20:59):
So yeah, that is so true.
Katie Perkins (21:01):
What you're so excited to come back and do more
work out in the field everyseason.
Is it your favorite part ofwhat you do?
Is it, you know, something youtolerate?
Olivia Beaudette (21:09):
I feel like you keep learning new things,
even regardless of how how longyou've spent in a system.
As part of my project, I'vebeen putting out cameras on
nests, and I feel like it's soexciting to get a glimpse into
something that you normallydon't see.
And I've observed so many coolbehaviors that birds are
exhibiting that I never knewthey did.
(21:31):
I think those little, littletidbits where you're like, wow,
I never knew they did those sortof things are so fun and
exciting.
Katie Perkins (21:38):
Definitely.
Clare Kuhn (21:38):
Yeah, the field is definitely my favorite part.
Like, yeah, classes areimportant, but if I had it my
way, I'd be out here year-roundfor sure.
I think there's just somethingabout being out there with your
study species, looking for themand kind of being in the same
area that they are.
I find it very calming.
Even if, you know, I go a fullday without seeing any pygmy
rabbits.
I'm still pretty like, okay,I'm gonna go over this ridge and
there's gonna be one, even ifthere isn't one.
(22:00):
Like, what a beautiful, like itwas such a beautiful day and
stuff like that.
And so I think that'sdefinitely part of it.
I just kind of have thispreference and just love for
just being outside and like thisposition allows me to do that.
And I wish, yeah, again, I wishit was year-round.
I wish it was every day.
Erik Schoenborn (22:16):
I think like being in the field is so
enjoyable.
Um, just on face value, it'sreally nice to just walk around
and look at birds.
Every time I'm out here,there's like for every one
question we kind of start tochip away at, there's like 10
more that come up.
And it's so fun just going outthere and thinking, I wonder why
that's occurring.
Trying to evaluate how capableI might be of answering that.
(22:38):
Likely not that capable.
But um, you know, like justkind of diving in more.
So kind of what Olivia wassaying, where when you get to
make these really interestingobservations and watch these
animals doing their thing, it itkind of like sparks a lot of
different questions.
And the hard thing, I think, atthis point is to like stop.
So Mila's questions and hisquestions, these are the two
(22:59):
we're doing.
Olivia Beaudette (22:59):
Focus, Erik, focus.
Erik Schoenborn (23:01):
But that is what's so exciting about being
out here is you have theseobservations and you get to take
that back to the office overthe winter and think why did
that occur and dig into theliterature and come up with
generate more and new excitingquestions.
Katie Perkins (23:13):
Yeah, talk more about you know, why we do field
work and what are the broaderimplications of of why it's so
important to spend this time outhere and and really dive into
these kind of studies.
Erik Schoenborn (23:24):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of papers that
are put out that are peopleanalyzing existing data sets,
and I think that those aretremendously valuable and they
contribute a lot to the field.
But I think often times reallyhaving your finger on the pulse
and watching these interactionsout there in the field offers a
lot.
And I think on top of offeringscience a lot, it also just
(23:46):
offers you a lot in terms oflearning how to work with these
species, trying to understandthe system you're working in.
Um, so I think being in thefield is tremendously valuable,
both on the science end, butalso just as naturalists and
people who are trying to observethese species and care about
them.
And then I think just from amental health perspective, it
really helps me to just sit outthere and watch birds half the
(24:07):
day.
So that's I think that thevalue of that cannot be
overstated.
Katie Perkins (24:11):
That's so well said, Eric.
Clare Kuhn (24:12):
Working with a species that has such a limited
amount of literature on it, youknow, I've read all of it and I
come out here and I see thingsthat I'm like, this isn't
consistent with what they'resaying.
And so I kind of have to putmyself in a position and kind of
what Erik was talking aboutearlier.
I'm asking myself new questionsthat haven't been answered.
I'm coming up with newquestions.
I think I've asked Anna to addlike five additional questions
(24:32):
onto my thesis, and of courseshe said no.
But it's just because you comeout here and you realize there's
so much more to a species thanwhat you'd get from just reading
the published literature.
There's always more to find andthere's always more to ask.
And so I think that that's whyfield work is really important.
And, you know, for a specieslike the pygmy rabbit, which
very cryptic, very hard to trackdown, you know, there's really
(24:55):
some species are just inherentlyso difficult to study just
using into the existingliterature, existing data sets.
And I feel like we're in such achanging world that you kind of
need to go out.
You need to see how they'redoing right now.
Like how they were doing a yearago might be different from how
they're doing right now.
So I think field work justreally, you know, helps you
encapsulate what the animal'sexperiencing, what they're going
(25:15):
through, and then kind of fillsus in as much as possible on
okay, this is what's going on,this is what we can do, and
these are the questions we'renow asking based on what we're
seeing.
Olivia Beaudette (25:23):
I also think there's a lot of value in
learning, as a graduate student,learning how to conduct a field
project too, and kind of all ofthe things that go into it.
What sort of data are youcollecting?
What questions will those dataanswer?
So I think it's just reallyhelps to think critically and
(25:45):
more about your project by goingthrough the motions of field
work.
Katie Perkins (25:49):
Yeah.
For sure.
A s we wrap up, what are likeyour fast fact, fast advice to,
you know, maybe someone gettingout in the field for the first
time, maybe someone who didn'thave a good field experience is
gonna give it a go again.
What advice would you givethem?
Erik Schoenborn (26:04):
Most field jobs, whether they're the best
field job or the worst, havesome really big pros.
Like there are some really funaspects, even to the toughest
jobs.
So I think if you kind ofeliminate those expectations and
just go into it and take it infor what it is and get the
experience you can and enjoyyourself where you can, you're
gonna be much better off thanlike, you know, going into any
(26:25):
job and having this like, we'regonna capture animals every day
and we're gonna be walkingaround in tropical rainforest.
Like just go in there and enjoythe parts that are gonna be
good because there are gonna besome bad parts and you need to
like kind of come to terms withthat.
Clare Kuhn (26:39):
I think I personally, every field season
I've had, I've had a week whereI'm like, oh my god, I can't do
this.
I I need to leave, like I can'tdo this, like this isn't gonna
work.
And it's normal to have thosefeelings, it's normal to go
through them.
And I mean, the best advice Ican really give is just hold on,
make the most out of theexperience that you have, even
if it is a little rough, likefind the good things, you know,
(27:02):
that you that you're goingthrough.
And but also the mutualunderstanding of field work
isn't easy work, it's tough.
And so, you know, you may haveto kind of develop more grit.
And if it goes against yourexpectations, just kind of tough
through it.
But there are ways to make surethat you kind of get the most
out of it for yourself and thatyou, you know, can do all you
can to make it enjoyable.
Olivia Beaudette (27:22):
Yeah, I feel like some of my most memorable
field experiences have come fromtimes where I've said yes to
different offers or experiencesthat people have just come up to
me and been like, hey, you wantto tag along and do this?
Or I feel like there's a lot ofvalue in just being flexible
(27:46):
and a lot of cool, fun, excitingexperiences come from that.
Another thing that I think isreally important about field
work, so there's the job, butthere's also the people and the
people and forming relationshipswith people, especially in this
field, is really important.
I have some truly lifelongfriends from prior field jobs.
(28:07):
So I feel like embracing kindof the social aspects of field
work too is very important.
Katie Perkins (28:12):
Definitely agree.
Well, thanks, y'all.
This was awesome.
Thank you.
Any any parting words?
Olivia Beaudette (28:17):
Get out in the field.
Katie Perkins (28:18):
There you go.
Clare Kuhn (28:30):
Olivia and I will have field positions open next
summers.
Uh yeah.
Katie Perkins (28:35):
If you want to live in Pinedale
Oliv (28:35):
Check Texas A&M job board
in early February or lateJanuary.
Olivia Beaudette (28:41):
Reviewing apps immediately.
Do not wait.
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