All Episodes

December 16, 2024 51 mins

As they commemorate the 80th Anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge, brothers Chris and Ken Cangillahonor their father’s WWII service and explore the remarkable legacy of Captain Dr. Raymond Minge, a medic with the 99th Infantry Battalion (separate). This special episode marks the first time Chris and Ken are joined by both a son and grandson of a WWII veteran: former U.S. Congressman David Minge and Olaf Minge, editor of The Viking Battalion. Together, they share Dr. Minge’s heroic story of life-saving medical work, front-line bravery, and the deep bonds forged with his comrades in the 99th.

The episode covers Dr. Minge’s early training at Camp Hale, Colorado; his journey to Normandy; his critical role in the Canal Drive; and the emotional impact of losing fellow medic Captain Gordon F. Fisher. The story also highlights the incredible prewar journey of his sister, Margaret Minge, who escaped Nazi Germany after witnessing Kristallnacht and smuggling Jewish valuables to safety.

Through this heartfelt conversation with the Minge family, Chris and Ken provide a rare, multi-generational perspective on the sacrifices of WWII soldiers and their families.

Episode Highlights: The 80th Anniversary of the Battle of The Bulge (00:54), Retracing the steps of Captain Dr. Raymond Minge of the 99th Infantry Battalion (separate) (01:45), Ken and Chris’ in-person prep work (04:05), The discussion of Dr. Raymond Minge with Olaf and David Minge (05:31), The Minge family history (06:03), Raymond’s medical training (08:06), The story of Raymond’s sister – Margaret Minge (09:12), Dr. Minge joining the 99th Infantry Battalion (separate) (10:50), Musician Margaret Minge seeing Adolf Hitler, witnessing Kristallnacht, smuggling out Jewish valuables, and escaping Germany (13:18), Dr. Minge’s training at Camp Hale, Colorado (15:40), Dr. Minge off to WWII and his letter from England – December 1943 (21:19), Dr. Minge and the 99th’s voyage to Normandy, France (26:02), The 99th in Elbeuf, France (27:47), Was Louis Cangilla with the 99th Infantry Battalion in Maastricht, Netherlands? (35:14), The 99th Infantry Battalion (separate) Canal Drive, September 1944 (36:32), Captain Gordon F. Fischer Death and Memorial (38:54), How Captain Fisher’s Death affected Dr. Raymond Minge’s military service (41:14), Lifelong friendships made amongst the members of the 99th(45:08), The post-war reunion of the 99th’s Sverre Gulbrandson and Dr. Raymond Minge at General Hospital (45:51), The relationship of Gustav Svendsen and Dr. Raymond Minge (47:16), The preview of Part Two with the Minges discussing Our WWII Dads at Wurselen and Aachen, Germany and the Battle of The Bulge (50:13).

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello and welcome to another episode of our World War 2 Dad.
I'm Chris Kangela, and of course, I'm alongside my brother
Ken. Kangela and Ken, you know, when
we put these podcasts together, it's great to talk to you on
this platform, but when we have an opportunity to talk in person
and sit down and really get intothe World War Two stories, well,

(00:26):
you know, that can't be beat. And we'll have a little bit more
on that later. But as many of you know, Ken and
I started this podcast to honor our father, Private First Class
Louis Canjella, a replacement soldier in Europe during World
War 2 with the 99th Infantry Battalion separate, famously
known as the Viking Battalion. And Ken, to say that I've been

(00:47):
looking forward to this episode would be a complete
understatement. Indeed, Chris, because as I see
the Christmas lights out your window behind you and the
Christmas tree behind me, you know, it reminds everyone that
this is December. And that means Battle of the
Bulge took place in 1944 in December.

(01:08):
So we're on the 80th anniversaryof the Battle of the Bulge.
And so it's a an important time of year to pause and think about
those men who were our fathers or grandfathers who were
fighting in the Ardenne Forest in December of 1944 during the
Battle of the Bulge. They were facing extremely cold
temperatures, it's deep snow, and they're being faced with

(01:30):
just a huge German advance. This the last gasp of the German
army. And so these men are fighting
everything. And of course, they're in need
of all kinds of medical attention, from frostbite to,
you know, to every other kind ofwound you could imagine.
And so thankfully, there's medical personnel on the grounds
with them. And in fact, today we get to

(01:52):
know Doctor Raymond Mingy who served with the American Medical
Corps in Europe. And with our dad in Company C of
the 99th, we got the opportunityto chat with Doctor Mingy's son
David and Doctor Mingy's grandson Olaf, our First World
War Two son and World War 2 grandson combo.

(02:14):
Plus, Olaf gives us so much insight on our relatives war
efforts because he was one of the editors of that incredible
anthology The Viking Battalion, a book about what the 99th
Battalion separate endured during World War 2 as told by
the soldiers themselves. Yeah, we've talked about that
book before and how much of A help it was for you when you're

(02:36):
on your quest. But you know, David, Doctor
Mingy's son, and his wife Karen,recently toured Europe to
retrace his father's steps. Just like you did, right?
Yeah, that's right. Olaf and David reached out to me
shortly before David's trip and,you know, and asked for some
advice on what to do and see while they were in Europe
because they knew I had been there in the spring of 2023.

(02:59):
So I shared some ideas with themand helped put them in contact
with Volker in Versalin. And David Minge also had some
contacts in the Canal Dr. area and in Malmandy as well.
So he really had a Grand Tour ofhis time there and had some good
guides along the way. And what was great about it is

(03:21):
he was able to see some of the same sites that I went to along
the Canal Dr. area, in the Versalin Aachen area and as well
as the Malmandi area. And then he saw some sites that
I didn't get to. So it was great to be able to
talk to him about those other locations as well.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's my favorite part is being able to
look at the old photos of what happened during World War 2 and

(03:42):
then see what you guys were recently and see how much it's
changed and all those kinds of things.
So, you know, we enjoyed our conversation so much with Olaf
and and David that we actually had to kind of break this
interview up into two parts. Part 1 you'll see on this
episode, and then Part 2 will bein our next episode.
And I got to tell you, it was a whole lot of fun.

(04:04):
I know you enjoyed it as well. Typically, you know, you and I
will prep for an episode by, youknow, multiple phone calls and
some texts and even some Zoom meetings.
But for this special interview, well, you know, we had the
opportunity to take a deep dive into the Mingy's family together
in the same room. We looked at all their photos.

(04:25):
We talked about all the other things that we saw in our past
episodes and it worked out so well because I was in Colorado
with you for the holidays and wehad such a terrific time with,
you know, my immediate family joining your family for
Thanksgiving dinner. And then that weekend, all of
our brothers and sisters got together with mom and, and the

(04:45):
extended family to celebrate theholiday.
It was it was just a great time together.
Yeah, it was Chris. And it was really nice to
collaborate in that fashion because it's easier to
communicate that way. But it's just fun hanging out
together because of course we'd go down on the rabbit holes and
and talk about other World War Two things in addition to
prepping for our interviews withthe Mingies.

(05:07):
But it was just great to be together and I think we might
have snuck in a little poker, maybe a little billiards and
little darts as well. Maybe some of those things, our
poor wives having to listen to us talk about World War 2 on and
on and on. But anyway, it was a great time.
So, you know, we needed to do that in person stuff more often
and and be able to get together as much as we can.

(05:28):
And we'll probably try to do that here in the new year.
OK, let's get on with it. Here is part one of our chat
with David and Olaf Mingy about Doctor Raymond Mingy, their
World War 2 dad and grandfather.So welcome, David and Olaf.
We are so excited to talk to youtoday about the life of Raymond

(05:51):
Mingy, your father David, and your grandfather Olaf, who was
in the 99th Infantry Battalion that we've covered off covered
in our podcast over time. So to jump right into it, David,
if you would please just give ussome background on the family
history relative to the migration of the family from

(06:11):
Norway and where they settled. Well, the families were farmers
in Norway. They came from the area close to
Sarpsborg, which is in turn close to Frederickstad, South of
Oslo and a little bit to the east.
So it's getting towards Sweden and it's an area which is quite

(06:34):
agricultural in Norway. And economic opportunity lured
them to the United States. And in the 1880s they went from
that area of Norway directly to Otter Tail county, which is
where Fergus Falls is. And the area was settled almost

(06:55):
completely by Norwegian immigrants.
And so Norwegian was spoken throughout the county and in
town, on Main Street and so on. And my father learn Norwegian as
a as a small child. Now, how often was that spoken
in the house when your dad was growing up?

(07:16):
Well, I'm not entirely confidentabout this, but my impression is
that he and his sister quickly were asked by their parents to
use English, and that they learned English then at the same
time that they might be picking up Norwegian.

(07:36):
And by the time they were in high school, my impression is
that the Norwegian was really beside the point.
Maybe to talk to their grandparents?
They knew a little bit of Norwegian, but that was about
it. Is that the same for both of
you? For both you and Olaf?
Is there just a little bit of Norwegian spoken?
There was there was no Norwegianspoken when I was a small boy

(08:02):
and my grandparents didn't use Norwegian or try to teach us
Norwegian. And so your father pursued a
medical career prior to his military service, is that
correct? That's right.
He decided as a boy that his objective was to be a medical
missionary in China. And so he focused on that, I

(08:26):
think as finishing, as he finished high school, as he went
to college, and even in medical school.
And he was, so to speak, commissioned as a missionary by
the Lutheran Church in 1941. But World War 2 interrupted all
of that. And some of the people that he

(08:48):
would have served with ended up being interred by the Japanese,
and they never had any experience in the mission field,
nor did he until the end of his career when he volunteered or
worked as a medical doctor in Lutheran hospitals in Liberia

(09:10):
and then in Bangladesh. So.
Olaf, we've talked a lot about the book that you helped edit
and, and really tell the story of your grandfather and our
father and all the things that they did in the war.
And then Olaf, you spoke in in the book about your grandfather
and your, I guess, would be yourgreat aunt, you know, Raymond's

(09:33):
sister and how she was in Germany as a musician right
before the war broke out. Can you tell us a little bit
about that? Yeah, definitely.
So my grandfather Raymond had one sibling, Margaret Mengi, and
she was an older sibling and shewas an amazing pianist.
She had grown up in Fergus Fallslike my grandfather and did the

(09:57):
piano training there, went to Saint Olaf College in, in
advanced her for her capabilities there and went to
Europe to train in Europe in in Germany.
And, and so she was in in Germany during the the rise of
the the Nazi regime and was teaching at an American school
in Berlin and had some, you know, very interesting

(10:22):
experiences during that time, including being at an event
where where Adolf Hitler attended.
And a lot of, you know, people at the event weren't happy that
he was there, but Hitler decidedthat he was going to make his
presence known to this, to this American crowd that was in

(10:42):
Berlin. So your, your great aunt had
close contact with the war effort just like your
grandfather did. So let's talk a little bit about
your grandfather's medical service.
Now he, you know, of course you said he was trained beforehand,
but David did he was he did he enlist?

(11:02):
Was he drafted? How did that come about?
Well, it's, it's my recollectionthat he was drafted twice and
the first time he didn't pass the physical because of flat
feet. Oh, wow.
And you might wonder, so how important is fat fleet or, you
know, your foot for the doctor? But they didn't lower the

(11:26):
standards. And then when he was in this
residency program at the Cleveland Clinic, he was drafted
and that's when he joined the 99th.
And so he had to leave the residency program and travel
and, and then after the war, he completed a residency program.

(11:48):
And I think largely based on hisexperience during the war, he
had chosen surgery and trained as a surgeon.
Wow. So he had on yeah, on site
training right there, Ken. Yeah, so David, did.
Did the 99th pick your dad or did your dad choose the 99th?
How did that come about? I'm a little, I'm fuzzy about

(12:11):
that. He was certainly aware of his
Norwegian roots and the fact that he understood spoken
Norwegian and could fit in with a group like that.
And at the same time they wantedto have as many of the officers
as possible, people of Norwegianheritage.

(12:31):
So we might have known some people in the area, but they'd
possibly be younger because he was 29 right, when he went into
the service. So maybe there were guys that he
knew from the neighborhood, so to speak, 5-10 years younger,
right? I I think that's very possible.
Yeah, I agree. It's possible that based on that
first occurrence in which even though he was a, you know, an

(12:54):
athlete and competed in tennis in college, he didn't make it
because of the flat feet. But he probably had a military
record, and there may have been a note about his familiarity in
speaking Norwegian. So history is sometimes, you
know, easy to obtain documentation and other times a
little vague. Yeah.

(13:14):
So Olaf, before we move on to Camp Hale, I just wanted to
follow up on your your great aunt and talk about how did she
get out of Berlin and what, whatare the things did she do before
she left Europe? Right.
Yeah, well, it is. There are many interesting
stories and some of it I've beenable to research through.
David's cousins would be, you know, the Margaret Minghy's

(13:35):
children. They, they were helping their
Jewish friends as times were getting more tight and
difficult. So one of the things that they
did is they helped smuggle out jewelry and valuables for some
of their Jewish friends. And they had hidden jewelry
inside Margaret's fiance's violin case.

(13:59):
And we are taking a train out ofGermany.
And the S S inspected the train,and they wanted to ensure that
this violin was not, you know, being absconded with.
And it was actually a violinist that had it.
So they had her fiance play the violin for them on the train to

(14:20):
prove that he really owned the violin.
Little did they know that there were valuable gems and jewelry
in the case. And it could have been a very
serious offense, you know? You may not know this, but I
would assume, and this is just a, a, a vast assumption by by
me, that some of the Jewish people that they are helping get

(14:41):
out of Germany might have been also fellow musicians.
Indeed, most of their friends and their sort of social circle
in Germany was, would be the musicians and the Jewish
community was very active in, inthe music community.

(15:02):
You know, one thing that's significant, I think is that
they, my aunt saw like Crystal Knight, the breaking of the
glass and a lot of the activity of the Stormtroopers and the
Gestapo. And she and her fiance, her
fiance was Swiss and he was a medical student and became a

(15:24):
doctor. They were on, I think, one of
the last boats that left Europe through the Mediterranean to go
to the United States before submarines begin to sink or put
at risk all of that transportation.
Wow. Yeah.
Well, let's move on to Camp Hale.

(15:45):
And Olaf. You know, you're very familiar
with Camp Hale from editing the book.
Tell us a little bit about what what you know about Camp Hale
and and Raymond's experience there at Camp Hale.
Yeah, well, definitely. Well, I think the the story of
Camp Hale is such a fascinating 1.
The, the army was looking for a high elevation place where they

(16:05):
could do training, you know, in,in the snow, in the mountains.
And they found this, this ValleyHigh up in Colorado where there
was an existing train line used by the mining industry.
So they were able to leverage that train line to move not only
the soldiers, but all the supplies and lumber and

(16:26):
equipment needed. So they built essentially a city
for 17,000 people in just a few short months so that they could
house not only the the thousand men from the 99th, but also the,
you know, 10,000 plus men of the10th Mountain Division, which is
very well known. And our grandfather's

(16:47):
experiences or my grandfather's experiences there were, you
know, similar to the rest of the99th, a lot of difficult and,
and heavy training in the mountains with snowshoes and
heavy 90 LB packs. It's possible that being an
officer and a medical captain that he might have been spared
some of the training, but we know that they were all in

(17:11):
excellent shape after their experience at Camp Hill.
Yeah. You know, it's so interesting
because Ken and I's dad, you know, was a replacement soldier
with the 99th, never was at CampHill yet retired or actually
worked majority of his life and retired in Colorado, and that's
where we grew up. So it's just this weird full

(17:31):
circle. You talked about his training.
Is it right to assume that probably he was the lead medical
officer for the 99th and and oversaw all that?
OK. That's correct.
Yeah. So as captain, he oversaw the
medics for for the 99th Battalion.
And they had, you know, issues with frostbite and all of that

(17:52):
kind of winter exposure. And which is ironic because when
they got in the Battle of the Bulge, that was the type of risk
that they were exposed to in addition to the firepower.
Yeah. I have one question for you,
David, specifically. You were born in 1942, if I have

(18:12):
that correct, right? And your dad was training at
Camp Hill in 1942. So how many months after your
birth was he there? Do you remember?
Well, as a small child, I was born in Minnesota.
At the time, he was practicing medicine as a newly minted Dr.

(18:33):
in a small town, and we left that small town and went to
Cleveland where he had a residency at the Cleveland
Clinic. And so I was born in March.
I think we left that town by June, and by October he was
leaving the clinic and joining the 99th.

(18:56):
So the movement was pretty quick, pretty quick.
That's interesting. So Olaf, I know you're a skier.
Was was Raymond a skier before he went to Camp Hail or did he
have to learn to ski? Well, I don't think he was a
downhill skier, but they more than likely did cross country

(19:19):
skiing. And you know this the whole ski
industry and even the terminology of downhill and
cross country is, is is almost post World War 2.
So the birth of the the whole ski industry, downhill ski
industry at least, was almost anoutcome, especially of the 10th
Mountain division. Yeah, we speak of that quite

(19:39):
often because they they started the, you know, the ski resorts
like Vail and, and Ken's wife isfrom that area.
So yeah, they've been up there many times.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So no doubt he had been on skis,but I, I think it was a new
experience. And the, and the type of skiing
they did there was, was, you know, uphills traversing hills.
And if they were doing downhill,it wasn't on groomed slopes.

(20:02):
It would have been in deep snow and and perhaps you know, quite,
you know, arduous to ski through.
Sure. Yeah, And you've been in that
area yourself skiing, haven't you?
Yes, yes. And just this last winter, I did
go to the Camp Hill area and skithat Ski Cooper, which is the
closest ski area for the annual skiing event that the 10th

(20:26):
Mountain Division and the 99th Infantry Battalion hold each
year. Incredible video and photos most
likely from you that that show all that.
Now, David, did your dad ever goback to Colorado after training?
Did he go out there for vacationand bring you guys?
Well, he enjoyed taking family camping trips.

(20:47):
The only limitation was he didn't want to sleep on the
ground. He had that.
So we had a little travel trailer and he and my mother had
what I would consider a double bed that they could sleep, they
could sleep on. But indeed, we went to Colorado
and he, he enjoyed visiting the mountains.

(21:12):
I think that the camp hail experience was one that had a
significant impact on his life. Well, let's switch gears to them
shipping out of the United States and heading off to
England. Did Raymond share any thoughts
about the the crossing the seas and any fear of submarines and
things like that before they arrived in England?

(21:33):
Do you know anything along thoselines?
The submarine risks never came up in any conversation.
And this is maybe a good point to to emphasize that as a child
and all the way into my adulthood, I never had a
conversation with my father about his World War 2

(21:54):
experience. It was it like it just
disappeared. And well, I can tell this is
very typical of veterans, that it's almost like they had post
traumatic stress syndrome or they had other blocks and they

(22:14):
talked with each other, but not with their families.
The only thing that I remember him mentioning is seasickness,
and apparently that was a very common among the men.
But the submarine warfare and other risks like that I'm not
aware of. You know, David, you bring up a

(22:34):
very interesting point that Ken and I have experienced in
talking to a lot of other World War Two children.
Is that like that you said they didn't talk about it and
interesting enough because of your ancestry.
The stories that dad, our dad did tell were about the the
daylight forever in Norway and those kind of light hearted

(22:55):
stories more than the action, right Ken?
That's right. Yeah.
They avoided the the combat stories and, and told things
that were lighter in nature. In fact, you know, reading
through Raymond's letters, whichare in the Viking battalion
book, and that you've sent me actual newspaper articles of,
you know, I started reading themin order as to how things

(23:15):
happen. And he begins writing, at least
the first one I saw, he begins writing from England.
And it's interesting to hear about his experiences in
England. Tell us about that letter
writing then. I have some follow up questions
for you on England. So it was he a prolific letter
writer to your mother and and and your parents, David.
Well, he certainly wrote frequently and he was, he was a

(23:40):
good writer. I mean, it was clear and he
expressed his himself very well.But on the other hand, the the
letters were unique in the sensethat my grandmother arranged to
have them published in the Fergus Halls Daily newspaper.

(24:01):
And my guess is that that would have been a surprise to my
father that he did not send these letters with any
expectation that they'd be shared with anyone.
Sure. So we're thankful that they were
because like we always talk about this, there's not a lot of
these interactions. So you have these first hand,
you know, perspectives. What you researched this whole

(24:22):
large book about is trying to find those stories, right, Olaf?
Yeah. Oh definitely.
And it's amazing what you can find and what families have.
So many times families have boxes in the attic that have
been passed from 1 sibling to another.
And when you ask if they have anything related to their father

(24:42):
or grandfather or uncle's experience from the war, they
say, well, no. And then they look and they find
letters like this, newspaper clippings, even letters from
relatives. And so it's, it's, it's amazing
what kind of information does exist from these men, including
these letters and newspaper articles from Raymond Mingy's

(25:03):
time. So, David, you know, the letters
that he wrote, I started with the ones from England.
And it's, it's, he was a very good writer and he describes the
sights he saw. But what really struck me is
that he mentions in the letter, it's, it's early December 1943
and he's doing some shopping foryour mother.

(25:25):
And I think he was even getting her silk stockings, which were
hard to come by. And he's going to ship those
home. And I just got to thinking about
that. This is December 1943.
Little did he know that 12 months later he would be in the
thick of the Battle of the Bulge.
And I just find that interesting, reading his

(25:45):
perspective one year prior to being thrust into that
particular bloody conflict. Right.
They had several months in England where they were just
marking time until the the the front was opened with the
Normandy invasion and so on. I want to talk to you a little

(26:05):
bit more about what you know of that trip from England to nor to
Normandy, because we read that the seas were pretty rough and
that they couldn't make land fora couple of days, if I'm right,
Ken, and and that they there were seasickness.
But you talked about Olaf, so I'd imagine your grandfather

(26:27):
Olaf, your father David, would have to treat those guys.
But would he get seasick? What do you know about that,
Olaf? Do you have anything on that or
David? Well, we don't have a lot of
details, but no doubt it was a difficult time because these
were men that were not accustomed to being on boats
and, and, and, you know, bad seaconditions.
I'm, I'm guessing there probablywasn't much that could be done

(26:49):
for the men other than to encourage them to, you know,
stay above deck and keep their eyes on the horizon.
But but yeah, they they had several, several days, if not a
week at sea as they were waitingto to land on the beaches of
Normandy after D-Day. So they are, they arrive in
Normandy on what? What day do you know off the top

(27:09):
of your head all off? June 1617 something.
Like that, yeah. And, and one of the things
that's inching about the 99th aswell as other units and
divisions is that they didn't all have the same experience.
There were, you know, companies ABCD and, and each of the
companies had slightly differentpaths and journeys.

(27:31):
So some landed earlier than others, but it was it was in
that time frame June 16th, 17th.Yeah.
And so they begin, I think they,they begin there and they're
basically a kind of a rear guardunit for some of the cities that
have been captured and things like that.
But then they move into, and I'll probably pronounce this
wrong, Elbeuf, France. Is that where they they start to

(27:54):
move towards Germany and that's kind of their next battle.
Is that is that correct in the chronology?
Yes, yeah. And I think I've heard it
pronounced elbeuf, but I'm sure there's other, other
pronunciations people have. But that was the first real
action that they saw and a trying time, of course.
And and I believe that was wheretheir their their leader was

(28:20):
injured and he had been assignedto the 99th.
He had not been with the 99th when they were training at in
Minnesota at Camp Hill. And so when he was injured, the
the individual captain, then Major Hanson came back in to
leave the unit. And so that was a well received

(28:41):
change, but one of the casualties of that first battle.
And David, your father wrote at that time that would have been
in what I think mid August. He wrote some letters, I think
from that area. Do you recall any specifics of
those letters from from when he was in that area?

(29:03):
Well, I think it was in that area that he spoke about the
French children. And I know that one of the few
things he ever mentioned to me was that the children like
chocolate and candy and and the soldiers rations would include
some dessert or candy. And often the soldiers would

(29:25):
share that with these children and the children were just flock
around. And I think that the presence of
the children was a very encouraging and positive impact
on the on the unit. And he was probably missing you
and thinking of you as he as he took care of those children.
In fact, I think one of his letters he talks about treating

(29:47):
a French boy that had burned hands I believe.
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that that, you know,
was before they got into these more tense situations.
And so it was, I won't say a happy time for them, but a time
that was probably easier and better memories.

(30:11):
Absolutely. And I and I think I recall
seeing one of the letters too, Olaf that mentioned that they
thought they, you know, would see the end of the war pretty
soon, maybe in two months. And we've, Ken and I've talked
about that many times and it seems to be the what these guys
were going through, that they thought they'd be in Berlin and
be done with this thing by Christmas, but that wasn't the
case. You know, in fact, in fact,

(30:32):
David, your father wrote on August 17th, 1944 in one of his
letters and I quote perhaps in two months we will see the end
of war. And boy, was he in for a
surprise. Well, and you know, that was
even up to the top of the command.
I think Eisenhower had a wager with one of the other generals

(30:53):
about whether the war would be over by Christmas, and I think
Eisenhower was betting that thatit would be over by Christmas.
That's amazing. Yeah.
So another thing that was written during that time that I
think was very important and we talked about this in one of our
other podcasts, but you guys canattest to it personally because

(31:14):
Raymond wrote about it. Was he and the dentist?
Is it Spenson? Expensive, Yes.
Yeah. Yeah, he, he talks about, I
think they work together quite abit, but he talks about the them
biv whacking and moving into an area and they're speaking
Norwegian. And in his letter he talks
about, and you guys correct me if I'm wrong, but he talks about

(31:37):
the American military hearing the Norwegian and start to
redirect their artillery if theyneeded to fire it in that area.
Is that correct? Tell that story.
Well, that's right, because the 99th was composed of Norwegian
speaking or people who understood Norwegian.
Norwegian was a common language being used and for the most of

(32:03):
the American soldiers, they couldn't distinguish between it
and German. And they were apprehensive that
these soldiers that were coming to their guard frontline station
were Germans and it was the enemy and there was some attempt
to infiltrate their their perimeter.

(32:24):
And the 99th men were were really lucky that they didn't
suffer any casualties as a result of that misapprehension.
You know, it's interesting too, because I think you said, you
know, and I'm not sure and you guys can correct me too, but
there's similarities in how the language sounds.
And maybe to an American it sounds similar.
But Speaking of an American, youknow, our father was a

(32:47):
replacement soldier. He didn't speak German, he
didn't speak Norwegian. He so he was completely lost, I
imagine. Plus you might have heard we
talked about it. Dad was 5-6, you know, and I'm
sure your your father David was over 6 feet tall as we found
with Norwegian, right? Well, I think he was 511, but.
Close enough. Close enough.

(33:09):
I know that he did not speak much Norwegian himself, but like
a 40% of the unit were Norwegiancitizens and many of them were
sailors who have been stranded when the Norwegian merchant
marine put in to American ports.And of course they weren't going

(33:31):
to go back to Norway because of the German control.
At least not yet, right Olaf? Yeah, right.
Yeah, They were eager to get back to Norway and fight, but it
wasn't wasn't in the cards for most of them, except for the few
that joined in with the OSS in Norso operations.
But yes. So let's wrap up, wrap up Elbeuf

(33:54):
in in that battle, you know, youhad mentioned that they lost
their leader and then Hanson takes over as leader.
And in Bergen's book, he talks about that the 99th took 86
prisoners. They had nine officers wounded,
seven enlisted men killed and 41wounded.
So they saw some significant action at that point.

(34:15):
Yeah, definitely elbow was was the real action.
That was in August, late August of 44.
And it was Lieutenant Colonel Turner that that that was
injured and then made Johansson regaining control.
But they cut their teeth there and that's where they really,
you know, tested their, their their battle capabilities.

(34:38):
And then after that on the CanalDr., which, you know, I'm sure
you were going to go into it. Exactly.
You know, and that's the thing. And I know Ken wants to share
something that he discovered when looking at some of the the
footage from there, because thisis when we think our dad became
that replacement soldier, Ken. Yeah.
So this is the, the meat of thisconversation that I want to get

(35:00):
into because David went and visited these areas as I did.
And I, I went in the spring of 2023 and David, you went in the
fall of this year, 2024. So I managed to compare notes
with you on that. But let's start with the Canal
Dr. In my research, you know, I look at a lot of YouTube and
things like that. And I know one of the near towns

(35:23):
to the Canal Dr. is a town called and I hope I'm
pronouncing it right. Maastricht, if that's correct.
Maa. Maastricht and Maastricht is
actually in the Netherlands and the the Dutch, the German and
the Belgian borders are all close to each other and they've

(35:44):
moved at different times and youhave communities that are German
speaking or were German speakingthat were located in Belgium and
and I'm sure vice versa. But in any event, Maastricht is
the larger city in the area. Yeah, and the reason I mentioned
that is as I was looking into some of that history there in in

(36:07):
thinking that my dad was in thatarea in his first combat
experience, I came across a video of a truck driving through
Maastricht. And I can't tell if it's a 99th
truck or not. And I can't quite see on the
bumper, but there's a gentleman in the back of the truck that
waves at the camera and flicks his cigarette.
And I swear to this day it's my dad because it it's his same

(36:29):
mannerism, same build, everything about it.
So I, I think he was there. So I, I really want to talk
about the Canal Dr. with you and, and you visited it.
I drove through it briefly and didn't get a take as much time
as you did and understand you had some local help as well.
So tell us about your visit to the Canal Dr. area, what you

(36:49):
experienced and what you felt. OK.
Well, first, I'd like to emphasize and thank the the
Belgian individual who gave us aguided tour of the area.
And I must say that without his assistance, we would have

(37:09):
learned almost nothing and it wouldn't have meant much to us.
But he spoke English and he was also a part of a reenactment
program where people are portraying the 99th in these and
like we have Civil War reenactments.
But in any event, we started at the South end and drove up to

(37:33):
the North End, and the canal area has more than one or maybe
as many as three different waterways.
It's very confusing. And these canals are deep enough
that you can't take equipment through them.
You can't send soldiers through them.

(37:53):
You have to have some type of a bridge or a boat, and a boat of
course is you're vulnerable, you're a seeding duck.
We could see that there are openfields, it's a flat area and
you'd be highly exposed. And so the 99th movement through
that area was a very dangerous mission.

(38:17):
And I think that they were only able to succeed because of the
armored unit that that they joined and they were able to use
the armored unit as kind of a stalking barricade and an
advance and the Germans were in retreat.

(38:38):
Yeah, it seems. I'm sorry, prisoners.
Yeah, it seems that we learned in the Bergen book that one of
the tank commanders said he's never seen a unit move so fast.
The 99th was just flying throughthere and well, I'd probably be
moving that fast too if I was under that fire under those
conditions. The area that you saw, were

(38:59):
there any markers? Were anything that made it a
historical site? You know, this is where Captain
Fisher was killed. There is a marker and a
gravesite, the initial or grave for Captain Fisher.
And then there are about a dozenplaques that have been installed

(39:21):
at different points. And the fellow that was our
guide, he knew the location of these plaques and he knew the
text. And that was very helpful and
very interesting. But I must say that again, if we
had gone, not being able to readthe plaques or even find them,

(39:42):
it would have been a much different experience.
Yeah, I'm sure. So that Canal Dr. area, the
results of that particular battle, in addition to Captain
Fisher, there were one, the one officer killed Fisher, two
officers were wounded, 75 enlisted men were wounded as

(40:03):
well. And there were ten men missing
who I think later they were recovered, but they took 440
German prisoners. But going back to Fisher, wasn't
your dad close by when he was killed?
And I think I read something that, you know, you there, the
Raymond, you know, it went and found shelter, but Fisher did

(40:25):
not. And that's one of the reasons he
was killed. I believe I read something along
those lines. Can you either of you comment on
that? Well, it's my understanding that
that these two doctors were together and with another man or
two in the unit and that some German artillery fire begin to

(40:45):
come into their area. And so my dad and the others
went down in the basement of this building and Fisher did not
go down in the basement. And some of the shrapnel or
fragments from this artillery fire killed Fisher instantly.

(41:06):
And so it was a very tragic situation and they discovered
Fisher's body when they went back upstairs to see why he
hadn't come down to join them. And Captain Fisher was another
doctor like your dad. And my my understanding that my
dad was being transferred to a larger military hospital and

(41:29):
that Fisher was going to take his place as a medical doctor
for the 99th. Well, of course then that didn't
happen. Well, my dad stayed with the
99th and Fisher was. There, in fact, Captain Fisher
was assigned to the 99th on September 13th and he was killed

(41:50):
on September 16th. So he was only with the unit for
a few days. And, and while not knowing
directly, I'm, I'm sure that this weighed very heavily on
our, my grandfather, David's father, to think that that this
band was brought in so that he could go to a, you know, higher

(42:12):
position and, and then was killed.
And our grandfather wrote a letter to the to the wife of
Captain Fisher and did a few other things in sort of in honor
of him. But the, you know, another
really powerful story is the wayin which the communities in

(42:33):
Belgium around these sites have embraced the Americans that that
that served there and lost theirlives there.
So the Captain Fisher, there is a memorial to him.
And as with many of these memorials, they rotate
assignment. The Belgians to this day still

(42:54):
have a person assigned to make sure that that memorial is kept
up and respected. And now we're in the 80th year
of many of these events happening.
And so just a a month or so ago,a couple of months ago, there
was a large community recognition memorial event for

(43:16):
for the Canal Dr. area. And, you know, ambassadors and,
and elected leaders all participated in ceremony.
So to this day, it's a very, very honored representation
given to the Americans that fought there.
Like you said too, you know, we think Dad joined up, you know,

(43:39):
got into the unit at the same time and Dad was in Company C
and Ken and I just keep on thinking, did these two men know
each other? There's no way for us to really
know right now, But you would think, I mean the 99th is what,
7 to 1000 men at this point can.What do you think?

(44:00):
Yeah, it was. Yeah.
There. You know, I think they start off
with about 900 men at Camp Hale.And, you know, chances are
Raymond and Lewis cross paths atsome point time.
Raymond probably would not have remembered him because he priced
off so many soldiers. But I'm just struck with the
fact that Raymond's path was changed due to this event and he

(44:21):
stayed embedded with the 99th throughout the rest of the war.
And I'm sure the the Norwegians were glad to have him since he
was one of their own. Yeah, yeah, very much.
And it's, you know, maybe difficult for us to determine
what led to him staying if he chose and said that's, you know,
that's it. I'm I'm not interested in moving

(44:41):
out of the 99th anymore or if other circumstances played a
factor, but but no doubt he might have felt.
I mean, who knows? He might have felt a little not
guilt, but something like that, like, hey, you know, this, this
guy got killed because this is where I was supposed to be.
I feel like I owe it to him. And Ken and I talked time and
time again. They fought for the guy next to

(45:02):
them in the foxhole. You know, maybe this is what I'm
supposed to be doing. And I will save more lives doing
this. And if I'm back at a hospital?
No, the, the men on the 99th formed lifelong friendships.
And you mentioned this Gus Vinson, he was the dentist.
And I remember going on picnics and different things.

(45:25):
And I see his son, who's roughlymy age to this day.
And there were other members of the unit we would visit with
them. My dad was able to lure one of
them to come and become a clinicmanager of the town where we
were living. And we would go on a vacation

(45:47):
and we would sometimes stop and visit somebody from the 99th.
And there's one story that appeared in the Minneapolis
paper. My dad was in a residency
program in surgery, and he was at the emergency room at
Minneapolis General Hospital just dealing with whatever came

(46:08):
in the door. And the police brought in this
guy that they had shot. And she said, you know, we're
going to be outside, so don't worry.
But this guy needs medical attention.
Well, it turned out it was somebody who'd been in the 99th.
And the newspaper reporter got ahold of it and talked about the

(46:29):
Army reunion that was on the emergency room surgery table.
Probably best if it was under other circumstances, but still a
small world nonetheless. Yeah, that is, that is.
Unbelievable. I used to think that these guys
in the 99th and these Norwegian soldiers, that they didn't
drink, they didn't swear, and that they lived almost like a

(46:52):
monastic life. Yeah, I understand that.
They were no different than anybody else.
It's funny that you say that toobecause you're talking about
your dad's post war life and Kenand I have seen some post war
photos of dad having a great time.
What was it 1948? Something around there 40. 7 New
Year's Eve, 47. And that man, that man, Ken and

(47:13):
I never really knew even more ofa authoritative than, you know,
going back there. But Ken.
David, you know, you, you, you mentioned Gus Spensen and your
that your family was close to their family and your father
writes about Gus in some of his letters and what I, what I
remember reading in, in the newspaper articles and I and

(47:33):
that I think were published as well.
And Olaf, if you know the story,you jump in here.
But what I remember reading is Gus and Raymond are, are walking
down, you know, a street or an alleyway and shelling starts to
happen. So they dive into the nearest
ditch. And the thing that struck me as
being so funny is Raymond writesthat when Gus dove in the ditch,

(47:54):
he had a cigar in his mouth. And when they came out of the
ditch, that cigar could not be found anywhere.
He he lost the cigar when he dove in the ditch.
And I just thought that was one of those light hearted moments
that, you know, that they would talk about instead of the death
of Fisher, those kind of things.Good.
I don't know the story directly,but they're the I've, you know,

(48:15):
when, when going to now events that we've hosted, you know,
memorial events and reunion events for families.
I found other pictures of my grandfather that are in other
people's photo albums. And now I think I've got 3 where
he's smoking a cigar. And David, I don't think he
smokes cigars around you or as an adult.

(48:38):
He did OK, All right. So that did any smoking until he
got in the military. Yeah.
And I think a lot of the soldiers were furnished with
tobacco products and they enjoyed them eventually.
Yeah, you almost have to to findsome kind of distraction, you

(48:58):
know there as well. So it was great to hear all
these stories about Doctor Mingy.
And it makes me think about him as a 29 year old young man just
starting his medical practice. And he's he's pulled into the
army to serve with the Viking Battalion because of his
Norwegian background. And we were so fortunate that he

(49:21):
corresponded with the family at home and wrote such great
letters and that the local newspaper even published those
letters. So we have a very good record of
what his thoughts were like at at that moment in time and was
really exciting to hear those inPart 1 and I can't wait to hear
about more in Part 2. You know, you're absolutely
right. I mean, we've talked about it,

(49:42):
that we would kill For more information about Dad.
You know, Dad wasn't much of a writer.
He did make those, you know, little check marks on things to
make sure we knew where he was. But letters would have been
great. And of course, you mentioned how
Doctor Minge is 29 and Dad was 18 and 11 years younger.
And and it's just seems, it seems baffling that, you know,

(50:03):
not only was this doctor kind ofripped out of his life, but
these young men who are not even, you know, fully developed
yet, you know, we right out of high school are ripped out of
their lives to serve the greatergood.
But it's incredible. But we're going to have to leave
it right there because when we come back for Part 2 of our
special episode, we'll learn more about Doctor Mingy and

(50:24):
Dad's time in the 99th of the Tree Battalion separate.
You know, of course, we'll see the campaigns and Worsalin and
in Germany and with the 80th anniversary of the Battle of the
Bulge this December, 80 years since 1944, we will learn more
about the brutal Battle of the Bulge along with many other

(50:46):
conflicts. But until then, we want to thank
you for watching our World War 2Dad, and we'll see you next
time. Thanks for watching and
listening to our World War 2 Dad.
Please remember to like and subscribe and turn on that
notification bell so you don't miss an episode.

(51:08):
And if you're just listening to the podcast, please leave us a
five star review. We would really appreciate it.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know
24/7 News: The Latest

24/7 News: The Latest

The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.

The Joe Rogan Experience

The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.