From Homelessness to Hope with Anthony Brown

What does it take to transform from sleeping on park benches to helping others heal? In this deeply moving episode, Anthony Brown shares his remarkable odyssey from childhood trauma through addiction and homelessness to becoming a psychiatric nurse practitioner and author of "From Park Bench to Park Avenue."

Anthony's story begins with a devastating childhood marked by poverty and witnessing his mother's shooting. By fourteen, he had run away to join a carnival, beginning decades of substance abuse and eventually spending most of the 1990s incarcerated. The turning point came at age 37 when sobriety allowed him to begin rebuilding his life from the ground up—teaching himself to read in prison, earning his GED, and gradually accumulating education and professional credentials despite his background.

The heart of Anthony's transformation occurred during a profound spiritual experience at the very park bench where he once slept homeless. There, he received three life principles that have guided him for 25 years: don't hurt anybody, don't hate, and always finish what you start. This spiritual foundation propelled him through seemingly impossible barriers—from securing nursing credentials despite his criminal record to purchasing and renovating an abandoned 1916 mansion in Ohio named "Brown Manor."

What makes Anthony's approach to homelessness revolutionary is his focus on identity transformation. "You believe who you are by what you believe who you are," he explains, noting that calling someone "homeless" reinforces that identity. Through Brown Manor and his nonprofit, he's developing a program that addresses homelessness as a problem of ineffective coping skills rather than just housing.

Anthony's parting wisdom resonates powerfully: "If you're not moving forward, look at what's holding you back." His journey reminds us that transformation is possible at any point in life, and that our pasts need not determine our futures.

Anthony Brown:

Website: https://anthonyhowardbrown.com 

Order "From Park Bench to Park Avenue": https://a.co/d/fjNl7nc

Brown Manor: https://anthonyhowardbrown.com/brownmanor

Out Of The Blue:

For more: outoftheblue-thepodcast.org

For exclusive content: patreon.com/podcastOOTB

Episode Transcript

Vernon West Jr. (00:23):
Welcome to the eighth episode of Out of the
Blue the podcast, a platformdedicated to celebrating
inspirational stories of peopleovercoming life-changing
experiences, who have foundtheir way forward.
I'm your host, vernon West, andmy co-host for today's episode
is my son, vernon West III, who,along with being a talented

(00:45):
singer-songwriter with his firstalbum available on Spotify, is
also the artist responsible forour Out of the Blue logo and
theme song.
And I want to especially thankyou, our listeners, for joining
us today, giving us yourprecious time and attention,
because we know just howvaluable that is.
In today's episode, we arehonored to have Anthony Brown,

(01:07):
author of his award-winningautobiography From Park Bench to
Park Ave, here today to tell usall about his amazing journey
from homelessness and addictionto becoming a nurse practitioner
and writing a book anddedicating his life to helping
others struggling with the sameproblems.
Hi, anthony, and welcome to Outof the Blue the podcast.

(01:28):
So, anthony, we always like tostart with the big questions.
What brings you to Out of theBlue?
How did it all begin In?

Anthony Howard Brown (01:35):
1961, my mother gave birth to a child.

Vernon West Jr. (01:39):
Okay.

Anthony Howard Brown (01:39):
Do you want me to start that?

Vernon West Jr. (01:42):
No, not that way.
You started it, I it, but Ithink when you were homeless, I
think.

Anthony Howard Brown (01:46):
Yeah, well , actually it started before I
was homeless.
Okay, Because I come from anabusive background.
I mean, I'm a child of the 60s,born of well, I was raised with
a single mother in the ghetto.
No money, things of that nature.
There's always booze in thehouse, and that's where I

(02:06):
learned all my social skills.
You know, drink, fight andeverything's okay.
And so, at the age of nine, atragedy occurred in my house.
We found my mother.
She got shot in the head andshe lived, but they never caught
whoever did it.
And so I got the opportunity tocarry that resentment over

(02:28):
whoever I thought did it.

Vernon West III. (02:30):
Wow.

Anthony Howard Brown (02:31):
You know that, combined with learning how
to drink allowed me to learnhow to use drugs to suppress all
my feelings, and at the age of14, because of the things that
was going on at home, I ran awayfrom home, joined a carnival
until I was 18, quit school inthe eighth grade.
And so here I am, an18-year-old adult running around

(02:55):
in society with no skills, aserious anger problem and major
trust issues, and that's how Iraised myself.

Vernon West III. (03:05):
Wow.

Anthony Howard Brown (03:06):
Now, in the midst of living that
lifestyle, comes all thebyproducts of that.
I became addicted to almosteverything.
I spent most of the 90s inprison and finally, at the age
of 37, I got sober, discoveredthat the way I was living was

(03:27):
wrong, which is kind offascinating, because when you
live your life for so long oneway and somebody tells you, well
, that's not the right way, thenyour question is well, what is
the right way?
And so I had to unlearneverything that I learned and
relearn things I didn't know,and I got that from going
through recovery.
I got to do a lot ofintrospective work, but first I
had to remove that outside layerof the substance use and

(03:50):
ineffective coping mechanismsthat I've learned to live with.
And so I ended up a stranger ina strange land.
I was wrong and didn't knowwhat to do, and extremely
sensitive, with the propensityto want to go back to what I
know, because that's what Iunderstand, yeah.
And so early recovery was achallenge I remember I had.

(04:12):
I went to a program, you know,learn how to stay sober, and I
was good.
I mean, I liked it, you know,but being sober isn't all that
it takes to change your life.

Vernon West Jr. (04:27):
It's a good start though.

Anthony Howard Brown (04:28):
Yeah, it's a good.
Oh, definitely, it's anecessity, because if you're not
in the right frame of mind, howcan you do the right thinking?
Yeah, definitely, and so Ilearned that, and then, as I was
growing, I had to learn a lotof independent living skills.

Vernon West Jr. (04:43):
I didn't know how to work.

Anthony Howard Brown (04:44):
I knew how to hustle, but I didn't know
how to work.

Vernon West Jr. (04:47):
Right Different big difference.
Yeah, A big difference.

Anthony Howard Brown (04:50):
You know, I had to learn to, no matter
what I thought.
Maybe I'm lying to myself,because I was always taught that
might makes right.
If I, if, if I want to, if Iwant you to understand what I'm
saying, it's best heard with asock in the mouth Okay, I had to

(05:12):
learn.
You can't do that, and so I hadto learn how to not only
develop a vocabulary, but learnhow to articulate my message in
a way that allows us to agree todisagree.

Vernon West Jr. (05:25):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
You know, that's an importantthing to learn.

Anthony Howard Brown (05:29):
It is, and so that's how I'm living this
new lifestyle.
I'm learning this stuff.
I'm going through some majorgrowing pains, and then I was
told that it's best that youeducate yourself.
I taught myself how to read inprison.

Vernon West Jr. (05:46):
Wow, that's amazing really.

Anthony Howard Brown (05:47):
Yeah, and my first book I remember was a
Louis L'Amour Western book.

Vernon West Jr. (05:53):
No kidding.

Anthony Howard Brown (05:54):
I used to read a.

Vernon West Jr. (05:54):
Western book to Vernon when he was young.
Remember that book, vernon?
I wonder who wrote it, becausewe've totally got into it.
It was really great, the LouisL'Amour Western book.
So go ahead.

Vernon West III. (06:05):
The book we read was called Westward Go,
sorry, continue.

Vernon West Jr. (06:09):
Oh, that's good .
Thank you for remembering that,yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown (06:12):
Okay, and so I went from Louis L'Amour to
Daniel Steele, then Stephen King, but this is how I learned how
to read.

Vernon West Jr. (06:20):
Yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown (06:26):
And the words I didn't understand
understand.
Then I wrote them down and got adictionary and learned how to
do that and then finally one dayI I found a bible in the trash
can in prison and and I stillhave that bible with me today
that's interesting, that'sawesome this occurred jesus 20,
probably almost 30 years ago,and so when when I found this
Bible, it was all covered withfluids and whatever else was in

(06:49):
that trash can, so it was supersoggy, and what I did was I took
this Bible to my cell and Ipeeled apart every page and
dried it with the sunlightcoming from my cell window.

Vernon West Jr. (07:00):
That's determination.

Anthony Howard Brown (07:04):
And as I did it, it I started reading it.
You know what I?

Vernon West Jr. (07:08):
gotta tell you, when you read something that
you did that much work for toget to, I gotta say the reward
must have been enhanced quite abit it was profound.

Anthony Howard Brown (07:18):
Yeah, because all the times I've been
to prison I never had this kindof feelings.
When I go to prison, it's likeokay, let me adapt to that
lifestyle, because I know what Ihave to do to survive in there.
And then when I get out, I wasstill the same person.
This time, reading that Bible,something changed and I felt

(07:42):
comfortable and I even taughtmyself the 23rd Psalms by doing
push-ups.
Wow, yeah, because if I wouldmess up on, I give myself 50, I
have to do a set of 50 push-upsand if I messed up reciting the
Psalms, I have to start all overagain.
It's a good way to get aworkout.
Yeah, it was great, you know,workout for Jesus, you know, and

(08:04):
it was good.
But a seed had been planted andwhen I got out of prison, that
last time I no longer felt thatI wanted to live that lifestyle.
But again, that's me being, youknow, raw on the outs but
wanting to do somethingdifferent.
And that's when I learned thepower of prayer and all of that

(08:24):
stuff.
And so I started getting mylife in order.
I got a job at a telemarketingplace which taught me how to
accept rejection, and it'sfascinating for me.
I call God my higher power.
I use those changesinterchangeably, so do I.

Vernon West Jr. (08:41):
I like that better myself.
I have a lot of trouble withthe word God.
I mean, I don't know why, eversince I was a working
telemarketing, I'm being thisnew person.

Anthony Howard Brown (09:06):
I'm learning how to use my words
instead of my fist.
I'm learning how to.
If somebody said something tome, that's your opinion.
That's not a fact.
It doesn't have to.
It's just because it's youropinion doesn't mean it's a fact
.
It's just your opinion.
And I.
I learned that if, what is thatsaying?
Opinion, opinions are like umthe circle in your bottom

(09:27):
everybody.
I was wondering how you'regonna put that they all like
that.
Everyone's got one yeah,everyone's got one.
They all stink yeah they allstink so I learned that and I
learned to um, accept people asbeing flawed, just as I was,
because there's nobody perfect,right.
And so I have this newphilosophy, this new way of life

(09:49):
and everything's going great.
And then one day I went to thepark where I used to end up
sleeping in a park at the end.
I mean, I am.
I was one of those homelesspeople that are that you see on
tv.
You know the dirty clothesdisheveled hanging out in back
alleys drinking wine out of abrown paper bag.

(10:09):
I tell people I was aconnoisseur of fine grapes.
I like my grapes aged in brownpaper sack.
Oh, that's a lot.
Yeah yeah, I drink only the mostexquisite bouquet.
That's Wild Irish RoseThunderbird mixed with Kool-Aid
and MD-2020.

(10:29):
But I'm a classy connoisseurand I won't drink wine out of a
box.

Vernon West Jr. (10:35):
You draw the line there.

Anthony Howard Brown (10:36):
Yeah, yeah , yeah, but I will smoke crack
out of a car antenna.

Vernon West Jr. (10:43):
You've got to have your boundaries.

Anthony Howard Brown (10:45):
Yeah, exactly.
And so I changed from thatlifestyle.
And here I am I have two yearssober and I went back to that
park I used to sleep at and Isat at that park and that's when
I asked God.
I mean, I believe, if you wantinformation, go right to the
source, Don't beat around thebush, Just go.
And so I sat at that bench andI said you know what, God?

(11:07):
I know cars run on gas and Iknow this bench is solid.
I know this for a fact.
Prove to me you exist and Iwill do anything you want me to
do.
And I had such a profoundexperience that rocked me to the
core of my belief.

Vernon West III. (11:28):
Was it right then.
It was then Like an immediate,immediate.

Anthony Howard Brown (11:33):
What happened was, first of all, I
believe God touches every one ofus in a unique way that only we
understand.

Vernon West Jr. (11:40):
That's what makes it possible.

Anthony Howard Brown (11:42):
And right after I said that, I opened my
eyes and the trees above me werein 3d and they were pastel and
I looked down at the ground andall these little animals came
off.
The hillside was surrounding mybench oh this really happened.
I was given I felt this reallycomfort within myself.

(12:05):
It was just a calmness that Istill have today, and I was
given three instructions One,don't hurt anybody.
Two, don't hate.
And three, always finish whatyou start.
That's wonderful, those three,and I've lived with that now for
25 years.

Vernon West Jr. (12:26):
Wow.

Vernon West III. (12:29):
Wow, I have full chills.
That's heavy.

Anthony Howard Brown (12:33):
Yeah, it is.
And the fascinating thing was,since that day I started picking
up projects to do, I startedgoing to school studying to be a
psychiatric technician.
Now, mind you, here I am aperson on probation, a person on
parole, barely able to makeends meet by working in

(12:55):
telemarketing, and I'm told togo to school with an eighth
grade education.
I got my GED in jail and so Igo to my first community college
and I'm taking this psychiatrictechnician course and I pass
the course.
That's great.
And then I applied to get mylicense to practice as a

(13:15):
psychiatric technician.
They gave me my license and soI'm going to school doing this,
I'm going to meetings, I amworking in telemarketing, I'm
staying sober.
I'm going to school doing this,I'm going to meetings, I am
working in telemarketing, I'mstaying sober, I'm doing
everything.
And next thing, you know, sinceI'm in school and I got my psych
tech license, ended up gettingan associate science degree in

(13:37):
psychiatry technology and then Itook up a couple more classes
and then I got an associate inarts degree in general education
.
So now I have two degrees, youknow, and I'm like and I'm
praying a lot, god is like mybest friend.
I mean, we're cool, we can talkabout everything any way

(13:58):
possible.
That's just the kind ofrelationship I have with him.
And so I'm doing all of thisstuff, you know, and I'm
continuing to go to school, andsuddenly I start working at this
treatment center.
And so I'm at this treatmentcenter, they allow me to live
there, I'm living in soberliving, I'm working in treatment
, I'm not paying any rent, I'mgoing to school and everything's

(14:19):
great, and so I decided thatI'm going to.
Actually, when I was at thetreatment center on my way to my
parole office, the CEO of thattreatment center just mentioned
hey, it'd be nice if we had adual diagnosis program.
And I'm like, okay, you wantone?
She goes, yeah, I'm like okay,and so I started one and I
finished it and I created a dualdiagnosis program for this

(14:42):
treatment center that took careof mental health and substance
abuse people.

Vernon West Jr. (14:48):
That's impressive.

Anthony Howard Brown (14:49):
That's awesome too.
What a good thing to do.
It's gone, because no matterwhat I pick up, once I pick
something up, I have to finishit, whether I like it or not.
Gotcha, it's great for when you, I have a habit of just going
to the theater just because Iwant to go, and whatever's
playing at that moment, I'mgoing to watch it.
Going to the theater justbecause I want to go, and
whatever's playing at thatmoment, I'm going to watch it.
I got to see a bunch of moviesI never would have picked out,

(15:10):
never, you know, with differentsubtitles and you know, all
these different foreign films.
I'm like, oh, this isinteresting, but once I sit down
, I have to finish it.

Vernon West Jr. (15:20):
That's right.
Being obedient to that higherpower, yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown (15:24):
And I learned I just did a footwork
and later results after God.
It doesn't matter what I thinkor feel, Just do it.

Vernon West Jr. (15:32):
That's it.
And so, wow, I can still relateto that, because I just want to
just interject a little bit.
I really want to hear from you,but I just tell you that I
relate so much to that wholeexperience about the quiet that
came over you because the samething happened to me after when
I, when I first moved into myhome, after living my life with
my I had a rough childhood too.

(15:55):
My father died from alcoholdrink and he died at 42 when I
was 17.
So I was going against a lot ofthings in my mind about even
buying a house.
So when I, when the day camethat I finally got this house
and I had got it through areally miraculous thing.
I mean it was.
I don't want to waste too muchtime on it, but it was.
It was a miracle, a definitemiracle.

(16:16):
And I'm standing on the outthere on the right near my
sliders, looking out at my newbackyard, and I said god, I mean
higher, I, I, I was talking togod all the time.
I still do.
How do I ever thank you?
How?
What do I get for the god whohas everything?
You know, can I get you a tie?
Mean, it's not going to happen.
So all of a sudden, everythinggot really quiet.

(16:39):
You said that I knew exactlyhow you felt because everything
got so quiet.
I could hear a pin drop.
And then I heard in my mindthree little words, like as if
they were written with the pointof a common pin.
It said feed my sheep.
And I said from then on, Idedicated my life to.

(17:00):
Everything I did was to feed asheep.
That's why this podcast exists.
So anyway, back to you, anthony.

Anthony Howard Brown (17:08):
Okay, and so I'm going through this and
I'm thanking God all the time.
I mean I pray a lot.
I pray like twice a day, nomatter what.
You know, I believe that for me, when I get up in the morning,
I hit my knees before I hit myfeet, you know and then I have a
chit chat with God and then Isit down and I go over a list of

(17:32):
you know what am I grateful for?
You know I'm grateful I can see.
I'm grateful I can breathe.
You know I'm grateful I have ablanket.
I'm grateful I have batteriesin my remote control so I don't
have to get out of bed to turnon a TV.

Vernon West Jr. (17:45):
There's so many things to be grateful for.
You start thinking listing themit is.

Anthony Howard Brown (17:50):
it is you know, and I've once heard, that
grateful people are happy peopleand those that aren't aren't
absolutely.

Vernon West Jr. (17:55):
I read a book about that.
A jesuit did a research and hewrote a book.
He researched happiness and heinterviewed hundreds of people
rich people, poor people, happyrich people, miserable rich
people you know, I meaneverything, each one and he
found that the only commondenominator to happiness was
gratitude.
You, if you didn't havegratitude, you could not

(18:16):
experience happiness.

Anthony Howard Brown (18:20):
Yep, and I believe that, and I go by.
I'm a firm believer in justshow me, and I believe it.
Well, god has shown me so much,so much.
And so here I am, working forthis treatment center,
developing this program, goingto school, and at that point I

(18:40):
think I went to school to becomea certified addiction treatment
counselor.
And so now I'm a psychiatrictechnician, I'm a certified
addiction treatment counselor,and I finally got off parole and
I decided I want to go toschool to become a nurse.
And so I went to school and Isigned up for the RN program.

(19:01):
And it was really interestingbecause I asked them if I
finished this course and I knowI'm going to get fingerprinted
and they're going to come backwith something, will you allow
me to be a nurse?
And they would say well, wecan't tell you that you have to
finish the course.
And so I'm not necessarily in adilemma, but I'm at a turning

(19:21):
point.
Do I invest my money and timeand effort and go to school for
nothing, or do I just do it andleave the results up to God?
So I charged, I went to theladder, I just did it and, sure
enough, after I completed school, they told me that well, we're
sorry, we can't give you anursing license.
However, we could give it to youif we put you on probation and

(19:44):
you take these urine tests andyou're good for three years Now.
When they said that, I smiledwhy, I know probation, so okay,
and I've been sober at that timeprobably 10 years, like I could
go to a meeting you know atthat point right, yeah, you
trusted yourself yeah, and togive them a clean test, that's

(20:08):
nothing.
I was like okay, you know, I'vebeen clean for 10 years and so I
got through that.
And during that time period,somebody told me they like, you
know you have a good story, youshould write a book about it,
and so.
I wrote the book and somewheresomebody gave my book to
Christine Devine from Fox Newsand Christine was doing a show

(20:39):
about the homeless people anddoing her show, dr Drew Penske
just happened to be at thestudio and he got my book.
And then Christine calls me andshe goes Dr Drew wants to meet
you.
And I'm like, oh, ok.
And so next thing I know he'scalled, we're doing a podcast.
And he's saying yeah, you know,I really admire what you're

(21:00):
doing.
You know you're doing great outthere.
Everybody needs to hear yourstory.
And I'm like, okay, and thenthings just like blew up.
I'm like, well, and I'm sittingthere going.
You know, god, you didn't tellme this stuff.

Vernon West Jr. (21:14):
Well, he doesn't have to tell you
Wonderful things are happening.
That's all you have to know.

Anthony Howard Brown (21:19):
Right, just do the footwork, finish
what you start and leave theresults alone.
And so here I am, doing allthis stuff, and I decided, okay,
I want to go back to school toget my bachelor's degree.
And so all of this is going onwhile I'm still going to school,
I got my bachelor's degree and,you know, everything was

(21:42):
everything was great.
And then I decided that, youknow, addiction can be a family
disease.
You know, my mother drank, Idrank and used all my brothers
and sisters, and so so you know,a lot of people don't come out
of it, and I felt part of mymen's was to help my family,
because I isolated fromeverybody when I was out there

(22:03):
in my disease.
And so I decided that, you know,my brother needed some help,
and so I bought this.
He was living in a buildingthat was abandoned, and I
understand what it's like tolive in abandoned buildings
because I've been there and I'vedone that.
And so I had a few extra coinsand I said, okay, find out who
owns that building and I'll buyit.
Then you're no longertrespassing.

(22:24):
But he couldn't do it, and soinstead I bought another
building, which turned out to bean abandoned 1916 9000 square
foot mansion.

Vernon West Jr. (22:37):
That's nice.

Vernon West III. (22:38):
Okay, good investment.

Anthony Howard Brown (22:40):
Yeah, you know.
I mean back in Ohio I'mlearning there's a lot of
abandoned buildings, a lot ofold abandoned buildings, and so
I bought this with hopes that mybrother could take it over and
things of that nature, and hewas unable to do it.
And so during this wholeprocess, here I am in school
getting my bachelor's, and Icome up with a concept on how to

(23:01):
write a brand new transitionalprogram for homeless people, and
so I wrote a programspecifically designed for people
that are homeless.
Homelessness isn't about justwithout a house.
There's a reason why somebody'shomeless.

(23:23):
One thing I've done with myresearch is you see very, very
few babies homeless.
If a mother gives birth in thestreet, child Protective
Services will take the child andput it in some sort of shelter.
So it's like, okay, well, wheredo these people come from?
And that's what I based all myanalysis on and figured out a

(23:43):
structured plan on how totransition people out of that.
And so here it is I have thisempty building, I have this plan
, but I'm in california andeverything's doing good.
Just because you write a bookdoesn't mean you're a
millionaire.
Believe me, I am not amillionaire, but I talk to God
all the time, and through one ofour conversations, god told me

(24:05):
it's his money, not mine, andI'm like okay.

Vernon West Jr. (24:08):
That's a good one.
I like that.

Anthony Howard Brown (24:10):
Yeah, well , you can't take it with you.

Vernon West Jr. (24:12):
No, you can't.

Anthony Howard Brown (24:14):
I've never once seen a U-Haul trailer
connected to a hearse Never,that's right.

Vernon West Jr. (24:25):
There's an old saying about the richest man in
the world at the time, j PaulGetty.
Someone asked him how much isenough, and he said a little bit
more.
And then they said when he died, how much did he leave?
And the answer was everythingright.

Anthony Howard Brown (24:35):
Right, even the Egyptians tried by
getting buried with it and theyjust dug it up and put it in the
museum, you know.
And so when I heard that, I'mlike, okay, if that's what I'm
supposed to do, that's what I'msupposed to do.
And so I'm sitting inCalifornia by then I start
working on my master's.
I'm a teacher at a communitycollege.
In the meantime, this house issitting in Ohio, nothing's
happening.
I'm sitting in California.
By then I start working on mymaster's.
I'm a teacher at a communitycollege.

(24:56):
In the meantime, this house issitting in Ohio, nothing's
happening.
I'm 3,000 miles away and I'mpraying about it.
And then that's when God says,well, just give up everything
and go there.
And I'm like but you know, I'mliving in California, god.
I mean, I live in Orange County, I'm in the beaches, right down
the street, and I'm making likesix digits a year.

(25:17):
And it's like, and God's likewell, when you were homeless,
how much money did you have?
And I'm like none, you know.
And he goes how much money wasyou born with?
I'm like none.
And he's like well, how muchare you going to take with you
when you die?
None, he goes.
Good, because it's all mine,let it go, and I'm like, okay.

(25:41):
And so I retired as a teacherand came out here to Ohio.
I cashed out all of my 401Keverything and put it towards
that house, or FACE my 401keverything and put it towards
that house on faith.
And now I'm out here developingthis program on faith and it's

(26:02):
really fascinating because, nomatter what happens, I have a
heck of a story to tell, right,you know?

Vernon West Jr. (26:09):
I mean definitely this is so inspiring,
Anthony.
I mean I'm very inspired bythis.
I relate in every level, rightdown to the cashing out my 401k,
like this podcast is prettymuch that, to be doing
everything I can to listen towhat God is telling me, what my
higher power wants me to do, andI feel like you're very

(26:31):
inspiring and I'm going to keepsaying that.
I'm sorry if it gets a littlemonotonous, but it really is
true.
So tell us more about the placein Ohio.

Anthony Howard Brown (26:41):
Okay, I don't know if you can see it,
but over here that's a pictureof the house.

Vernon West Jr. (26:45):
I see it.

Anthony Howard Brown (26:46):
Yes, we see it, and that's Brown Manor
and it's all over the internetand I've done interviews and all
of that stuff, because we'reone thing I've learned that when
you take an abandoned 1916mansion that's been sitting
there for a long time, a lot ofwork has to be done oh yeah a
lot and I'm like, okay, god,when I, when I first walked into

(27:07):
that house, I went in the sidedoor and the ceilings were
falling down, there was mildewall over the place.
I mean you can literally hearthe water dripping in the
basement.
There was a dry bat hanging offthe light and I'm like, oh Lord
.
Then I went to the hotel roomand I prayed and I came back the
next day and I seen the mostbeautiful place on this entire
planet.

(27:27):
I mean it has crystal glasswindows, it has stained glass
windows, it has 10 bedrooms.
I mean it's just and it's like,okay, I'm ready whatever you
want me to do.
And so I prayed about it.
I moved out here because I soldmy house in California.

(27:48):
I was able to buy a house outhere, and so now I have a
permanent resident.
I'm right down the street fromBrown Manor.
I'm using my book sales for it.
I come to believe, or I came tobelieve that one of the things
I believe that if you're notmoving forward, look at what's
holding you back.
That's really important.

(28:09):
If there's anything you want todo in this life and you're not
moving towards it, what'sholding you back?
What chain is holding you back?

Vernon West Jr. (28:17):
Say that one more time, just for posterity,
if you're not moving forward.

Anthony Howard Brown (28:21):
If you're not moving forward, look and see
what's holding you back.
There's something you'rechained to Amen.
That is so profound.
And I made some amazingdiscoveries, you know, by
writing and talking to God andlistening to what's going on.
I learned to let go of a lot ofstuff, because when we hang on
to something, we don't have roomto put nothing else in our

(28:42):
hands.
So if you and just because youlet go doesn't mean you have to
release it Letting go is justopening your hands up and the
whispers of God will blow itaway if it's not supposed to be
there.
Wonderful.
And I discovered that.
And so part of my transition,like okay, great, I'm sober,

(29:04):
great, my life is moving forward, I'm doing okay in society.
But there's still somethingthere that I'm uncomfortable
with and I had to uncover,discover and discard what it was
in that closet.
Like, for instance, I didn'tlike cooking, despised it and I
couldn't figure out why.

(29:26):
And when I look back at it, itall went back to me as being a
little kid, when my mother usedto get drunk and she'd make me
cook her scrambled eggs.
If the eggs wasn't a certainconsistency, she would throw the
plate at me.
I didn't realize that held meback from wanting to cook and

(29:47):
shop and everything that goeswith it.
And so once I forgave her andsaid well, you know what it's
not like in the 60s in yourcondition, you was reading Dr
Spock's book on how to raise achild.
Okay, and so I accepted that.
I forgave her and now I startedout cooking small.
I started out with a crock pot,which was great.

Vernon West III. (30:07):
Stead it and forget it.

Anthony Howard Brown (30:09):
Yeah, yeah .
But the crock pot is tricky,especially when it comes to
seasoning, because I'm cookingis different layers.
And so I remember once I wascooking some beans and they
taste bland.
And I went to my friends at themeeting who, in those meetings,
everybody knows everything, ofcourse and so I ask them I go,
you know, my beans are bland.

(30:30):
I put some garlic in it, ok,and so I come home, put on my
little apron with the crab thatsays kiss the cook, cause I'm,
I'm extreme, yeah, and I'msitting there chopping up garlic
and onion, I've put them in mybeans and next thing, you know,
my whole house smells likegarlic.
I'm, I'm eating garlic soup andit's coming out of my pores.

(30:50):
And I go back to the meeting itgarlic.
And they're like what happened?
I'm like, well, you told me putgarlic in it.
And I'm like, well, how muchgarlic did you put in it?
I put one of those balls in itand they're like no, you know,
now I know the differencebetween a bulb and a club.
Yeah, for sure yeah, bigdifference from a crock pot, I

(31:12):
discovered HelloFresh.
And next thing, you know, I'msalting orange pills and all
kinds of stuff, and so you know,everything is a process and I'm
going through all of thesethings.
And one of the things Idiscovered that, because of the

(31:37):
abuse that occurred in mychildhood and I blamed it on my
mother I come to realize thatshe did what she could with what
she had, and so, in honor ofher and me wanting to use it as
a symbol of hurt people hurtpeople I developed a non-profit
in her name called the JeanetteJones-Tappel Foundation and this
way and we're geared towardsjust helping out people discover
what's really going on withhomelessness.

(31:59):
And so I have that going on, Ihave Brown Manor going on and
I'm just enjoying life.
I have the privilege of beingon shows like yours to discuss
that there's more to beinghomeless than being homeless.

Vernon West Jr. (32:17):
Yeah, so you know, that's a great thing to
just to make that statement,because so many people in the
world are marginalized becauseof their homelessness and people
don't want to pay it.
They put up a wall and they tryto dehumanize it and they
forget these are human beingstoo.
These are people like us.
There's somebody's brother,somebody's son, somebody's

(32:40):
daughter, and they're dealingwith an issue that is way more
complicated than just beingunhoused.
It's a lot more like you weresaying.
I love that program you'retalking about.
It sounds so interesting.
We've got to put a link to allthese things at the end of your
podcast so that people can lookdeeper into this stuff, because

(33:00):
I'm personally going to lookinto it, because I just had a
guest on that was very much intohelping homeless people and
he's going to really, really,really love what you're saying.
I'm going to tell him to makesure he watches this, but you
are onto something very, verygood with this.
I know that this problem ishuge in the United States and in

(33:22):
the world, so it's something wereally need to put a little
energy into, a lot more energythan we are now, but go ahead.

Anthony Howard Brown (33:29):
Yeah, I come to the conclusion because,
again, I have a PhD in vagrancy.
I lived out there for 23 years.

Vernon West Jr. (33:42):
Yep.

Anthony Howard Brown (33:43):
And now I have a master's degree in
nursing and so I have knowledgefrom both worlds Right, and I'm
able to see things that otherpeople can't.
And what I do know is, again,it's a complex issue, but it's
not as complicated as we thinkit is.

(34:06):
It's not as simple as we thinkit is, but it's not as
complicated as we think it is.
A lot of people think it's morealong the lines that I mean we
can throw it in the category.
Yeah, we understand that beingwithout health we know what can
cost that.
We understand that you know youmight not have enough money.
You don't have the income.
We understand that you mighthave a mental illness.
We understand that you may havea substance abuse problem.

(34:27):
We understand that there's evena small fragment of that
population that has learningdisabilities, that they were
raised by their parent andunable to take care of
themselves.
Then a parent passes away andwe have a homeless person.
There's a lot of differentelements, but the one thing that
I focus on is that wholecognitive restructuring.

(34:49):
You believe who you are by what.
You believe who you are.

Vernon West Jr. (34:55):
See one more time.
Let me think about that.
You believe?

Anthony Howard Brown (34:58):
who you are by what you believe.
Who you are.

Vernon West Jr. (35:02):
Okay, so your own predisposition.
As far as what you think youare, it's the thinking.

Anthony Howard Brown (35:09):
A classic example.
You know what makes a physiciangood Go ahead Because he
believes he's a physician.

Vernon West Jr. (35:16):
You know, that's definitely a good thing
to say.
I can honestly say myexperience with physicians,
that's true.

Anthony Howard Brown (35:24):
You know what makes a musician good
Believing he's a good musician,because he knows he's a good
musician.

Vernon West III. (35:29):
I was just going to say that getting a job
out here is like people go.
How much do you charge?
And you have to go.
I believe I'm worth $250 anhour, please, and then you just
hope that they agree.

Anthony Howard Brown (35:42):
Right, right.
But once you get thatsolidified in your consciousness
, that's who you are.
You've already fortifiedyourself with the facts to prove
that, beyond a shadow of adoubt.
I'm a very good psychiatricnurse.
I am and I can resolve.
I can solve a lot of differentissues and I can educate myself

(36:06):
to get better at what I do,because this is who I believe I
am.
When somebody's homeless, ifyou keep calling them a homeless
person, that's what they'regoing to believe, right, and
that's what they're going to do.
A homeless person things.

Vernon West Jr. (36:22):
You know.
I heard a saying once that, asfar as how you treat people, a
person said to me if you call adog by a certain name, the dog
starts to answer.
It's the same thing for people.
It's just what you're saying.
If you say that to them, well,they're going to think that's
what they are.

Anthony Howard Brown (36:38):
Right and they're going to behave in that
aspect and get reinforced.
So not only are they believingit, but all the external factors
are reinforcing that fact, tosolidify that belief.

Vernon West Jr. (36:48):
Yep, that's it, and it becomes more and more
hard to shed it.

Anthony Howard Brown (36:54):
Right, but that's the whole philosophy
behind Brown Manor.
Once it's up and running, forone thing, there's only 10
people that's going to live inthat 9,000 square foot mansion.
And guess what?
You live in a mansion OkayPeriod.
I love it.
That's the whole thing.
And you're an individual thatjust have ineffective coping
skills.
You're not a bad person.

(37:14):
You just need to be educatedmore on how to do things better.
That's the language we use,opposed to saying you'll never
get it or you're a failure.
Why did you do that wrong?
It's like no.
I understand that sometimes ittakes.
Progress is a process, and Ireinforce approximations.
You got it this morning.

(37:37):
Congratulations, great job.
You made your bed this morningGood.
Now that you know how to makeyour bed and you understand why,
I'm going to reinforce that.
But then you're going to startrepeating that behavior all the
time to get that reinforcementand then I can fade that from
saying good job all the time Atthe end of the week.
It's like you did super well.

(37:58):
Do your patients come in andeventually like graduate to you
get this, you get to stay a yearand within one year, it's not.
It's not a program and it's nota shelter.
It's your home and that's whatwe want people to understand now
, dealing with society andputting it together.
They don't want to label itbecause, unfortunately, funding

(38:21):
is geared towards labels.
Correct, you know, you got ashelter for homeless people.
We'll give you money.
You have a home for people whoare just learning how not to do
ineffective coping skills.
We don't have a program for that, we don't have funding for that
.
Okay, but that's what's needed.
And so, setting up this examplenow we can be able to have some

(38:43):
form of communication so thatwe can at least get people to
start speaking that language andmaybe we can start thinking
different on how to solve thisissue, because we're not even
counting the true number ofpeople that are homeless, true
number of people that arehomeless.
There's a whole invisiblepopulation out there that's

(39:04):
couch surfing in hotels,sleeping in their cars.
They're only counting theperson that they see laying on
the streets.
You have the pre-homeless.
Those are about to be.
Truth be told, a lot of peopleare just one paycheck away from
being homeless.

Vernon West Jr. (39:23):
That's exactly true about the USA right now.
That's true.

Anthony Howard Brown (39:27):
I see it, and so part of what I want to do
is I want to get in and educatethose that are pre-homeless and
let them know okay, you lostyour job being a CEO at a
company for right now.
Go work someplace where atleast you can get hired.
So it doesn't necessarily meanyou're going to make a bunch of
money, but that's going to helpyou with your dignity and your
self-worth and routine give yousome day-to-day balance.

(39:53):
Yeah, yeah, because if not,you'll sit around, you'll get
depressed.
Once you get depressed, thenwhat?

Vernon West III. (39:58):
spiral.

Anthony Howard Brown (39:59):
Oh yeah, I've been there exactly, and,
and we're all gifted the sameamount of time.
That's a lifetime.
Once it's over, it's over, sowe just get to do this until
then, and so, in the meantime, Iwant to dedicate my time, my
research, making connectionswith people, getting them to
understand that there's more tobeing homeless than being
homeless.

Vernon West III. (40:18):
I have a question for you.
Yes, in this process, like areyou, do you like visit this home
often?
Or like, are you like presentin their lives?

Anthony Howard Brown (40:31):
Yeah well, right now, right now we're
still structuring it, we'restill going through the whole
construction phase because, as Isaid, rebuilding an abandoned
mansion takes a lot of money.

Vernon West III. (40:43):
A bad force, yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown (40:44):
And so right now we're.
We just raised the fundsbecause I had to redo the entire
plumbing and sewer system.
I didn't see that one coming.
You know, I didn't, I didn't.
I didn't see the city sayingwell, you know, even though you
want to help people, you have tohave permits and licenses.
So you got to pay us a bunch ofmoney to get all of that.
I didn't see none of that.

Vernon West III. (41:06):
Is that stuff that you think God left out?
And it was just sort of like doyou think you're pushed to that
mission without knowing thosedetails, kind of intentionally?

Anthony Howard Brown (41:19):
Yes, yes, because I'm supposed to learn
patience.
Somehow I'm supposed to learnforgiveness.
Somehow it's easy to say okay,I'm patient when it comes to
dealing with my patients,because I work in a behavioral
unit, I'm patient when it comesto that.

(41:40):
But what happens when you getblindsided?
Are you ready for that, youknow?
Are you ready to say okay,society, even though I don't
agree with you, I still have tojump through the hoops to get
what you have so I can helpother people.
Yes, because in the meantime,no matter what I'm going through
, god always gives me thislittle snippet that says you're
on the right track and so, yes,I will be definitely in their

(42:02):
lives With our foundation.
I set up the foundationoverseeing that house, and the
beauty of it is, once myexpiration date comes because we
all have an expiration dateonce it comes, the foundation in
that house will still continueto move.
If I can be there for everybody,I would, but it all depends on
what God wants me to do.

(42:22):
But the best I can do is tocontinue to do podcasts,
continue to be honest.
Somebody wants me to speak atsome place.
That's one way I can raiserevenue.
I'll go speak.
I'll do whatever it takes totry to get at least one person
to think a little different.
Just one one at a time.
And if anybody has doubt, I'mproof in the pudding.

(42:44):
I mean, I used to eatcheeseburgers out of a dumpster.
I used to be a drug addict andnow I have a license to
prescribe medication.

Vernon West Jr. (42:53):
To do something that you never would have done
back then, for sure.

Anthony Howard Brown (42:56):
Never, never.
I didn't think I'd be a nursepractitioner.
I know that wasn't in the cards.
It shows I didn't think I'd bea nurse practitioner.
That wasn't in the cards, youknow.
It shows you what you knowabout the cards.
Exactly now I just sit down andI'm grateful to be at the table
to play you know.

Vernon West Jr. (43:11):
Yeah, definitely one of the things we
talk about on Out of the Blue,because we're talking about a
higher power and you have such astrong, really incredibly tight
relationship with your higherpower.
And you have such a strong,really incredibly tight
relationship with your higherpower, chatting with them and
getting immediate answers.
I feel that it's very.
I don't doubt it for one minute.

(43:31):
I know you're doing that, butin the out of the blue world,
for a lot of people out therewho aren't devoted, found any
religion, they just want to knowwhat's going on.
They're lost in a lot of ways.
The things that come out of theblue are like when you talk to
someone would say, when youthought, when it came out of the
blue for you to sell your youknow, sell your cash and your

(43:54):
401ks and go out to Ohio, thatwas an out of the blue thing
that you did, almost listeningto God.
Because I feel like when thesethings come from out of the blue
, I mean everybody.
We've spoken to everybody.
When I always ask them, what doyou think out of the blue is?
Is it something?
What is it?
They always come back to thisit's got to be something like a
higher power, god, whatever youthink and that's what I think it

(44:18):
is we don't own our life.
We do have an expiration date,and I love the fact that we
don't own the money, nothing.
We don't own material things atall.
Really, right, and it's alleverything.
We're the most amazing thingsthat came out of the blue.
Us people, humans, I mean, thisis really what.
The most amazing story of allthat and a bag of chips.

(44:41):
You're amazing, anthony.
I can't believe.
I'm so fortunate it was sofortunate to have you on and you
came out of the blue to us.

Anthony Howard Brown (44:50):
I was going to say you think this came
out of the?

Vernon West Jr. (44:52):
blue.
Yeah, you came out of the blueto us because, I mean, we
started it and you were one ofthe first people that reached
out to us and I said, like well,this is special.
I knew it was something special.
The minute I saw your name andI read your thing, I said this
is my higher power sending mesomething very important, not

(45:14):
just for me, but for feeding thesheep.
That's what it's all about.
We got a lot of sheep out thereto feed.

Anthony Howard Brown (45:19):
Right, and it's cool because we have the
hands to feed them.

Vernon West Jr. (45:24):
That's right.
I'm grateful for that, theopportunity to do it.
That's what I say in themorning.
Like I say first thing in themorning, I definitely talk to my
higher power and the firstthing I say is I'm grateful that
I'm here.
I have another chance.

Anthony Howard Brown (45:38):
Yeah, and I think that's really important
for a lot of people, because weforget to understand the small
things that mean a lot.
You know, when people wake upin the morning they don't
realize that hey I'm awake.
That's a huge thing.
That's the most important giftyou can get.
You know, after that,everything else is, it's all

(45:59):
great after that.
Yeah, everything else is abonus.
Yeah, everything else is abonus.
Then you throw in the littlesmall things like, okay, well,
my bladder still works and Ihave a restroom, whoa, and the
water flushes Right, and I gottoilet paper.
It's like what the heck?
Because during COVID a lot ofpeople didn't have toilet paper.
No, we got three of it.
So be grateful.

(46:20):
It's all the stuff and, likeyou say, and a bag of chips.
And I continue to fortifymyself because life does get
lifey.
I mean, I don't have theprivilege of walking around
smiling all the time.
Life gets lifey, but One moretime.

Vernon West Jr. (46:41):
Life gets lifey .
Yes, life gets lifey.
One more time Life gets lifey.

Anthony Howard Brown (46:44):
Yes, life gets lifey.

Vernon West Jr. (46:45):
We're going to probably put that as a highlight
for you.
Life gets lifey.

Anthony Howard Brown (46:51):
You can have that one, but the fact of
the matter is that I'm able tohave that peace and comfort to
navigate life as it presentsitself, and that's what's
important.
You know, I had the privilegeof being out here and it snowed
and I'm from California and itsnowed like snow, snow.

(47:14):
And so I go out with the onlything I know, which is a regular
coal shovel, and I'm scoopingup my driveway.
My neighbor is like that's notthe proper equipment.
I'm like okay.
Then she came over and shebrings me her shovel.
I was like okay, now I know,Things like that mean a lot to
me.
You know things like that.
I have a jacket I can put on.

(47:35):
I was homeless.
The jacket was my blanket andeverything else.
Now I have different clothesand so I'm winning, no matter
what, Because, again, I know myexpiration date is coming
eventually and I get to say Iliterally lived on a park bench

(47:57):
to Park Avenue.
That's the name of my book too.
Quick, cheap plug from parkbench to Park Avenue.

Vernon West III. (48:00):
Nice, that's clever, but I literally too.
Quick, cheap plug from.

Anthony Howard Brown (48:02):
Park Ranch to Park Avenue.

Vernon West III. (48:02):
Nice, that's clever.

Anthony Howard Brown (48:03):
But I literally got to do that.

Vernon West III. (48:05):
Available on.

Anthony Howard Brown (48:06):
Amazon yes .
Available on Amazon yeah, andeverything I do goes to Brown
Manor, everything I do.
When God says it's time for meto come home which is going to
be great because I don't have topay taxes anymore, at least I
can say I got to do a lot ofstuff.
I got to party like there's notomorrow.

(48:28):
I mean, I got to savage my bodyand I made it.

Vernon West Jr. (48:34):
Oh boy.

Vernon West III. (48:34):
Yeah, as I told you earlier, I did play
music for a while and definitelycan relate to that exact
statement and I'm also verygrateful that I'm here after all
that pottying, I'd say there'ssomething to following your
heart's whims in a sense, butyou know, in moderation of

(48:58):
course or you can always justthrow conscience.

Anthony Howard Brown (49:02):
I told myself I'm at the point in life
if I felt that I just wanted toget a minivan or probably a VW
bus and just take off and cruise, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
If I decide I want to leave allof this stuff behind, I'm going
to do it.
If I decide I want to leave allof this stuff behind, I'm going

(49:22):
to do it.
Why?
Because God set me up in a wayin which I'm retired, so I have
a pension, so, no matter what,I'll get a check every month.

Vernon West III. (49:31):
That helps for sure.

Vernon West Jr. (49:34):
I hope it's a VW bus, of course.
Of course you know why, right,because me and my son are both
Vernon West, oh West, we haveVWs, oh nice.
So we actually did a bandtogether called the VW Bust Band
.

Vernon West III. (49:50):
Oh, really Not sponsored.

Vernon West Jr. (49:52):
Yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown (49:53):
Well, that came out of the blue.

Vernon West Jr. (49:54):
Yeah.

Anthony Howard Brown (49:58):
And also the latest book I just finished
last night that I wrote about alittle talking intellectual
bunny.
He has a VW bus that hasactually VW on the bus, and so
that's really fascinating.
If we can't live the days andthat's super important because

(50:22):
we get so caught up in yesterdayand tomorrow, it's like we blow
today and all we really have,in all honesty, is now.

Vernon West Jr. (50:33):
That's it.
That is so right.
I mean, that's profound andit's so true.
All we have is the moment, andif you get lost in the future or
the past, you're missing it.

Anthony Howard Brown (50:44):
Yeah, who was it?
I think it was Kansas.
Dust in the wind.
Yeah, there's a little thingthat says only for a moment and
a moment's gone.

Vernon West Jr. (50:53):
Yeah, yeah I did a show.
I did a show with Kansas,that's a matter of fact.
Yeah, I love those guys.

Anthony Howard Brown (50:58):
They were great guys, matter of fact, I
love those guys, they're greatguys.
So, having said that, havingknowing that, then what are we
going to do with life now, nowthat we're armed with the facts,
what are we going to do?
You know me, I'm going to helpout our brothers and sisters in
the streets.
Continue to give because that'swhat I'm supposed to do and

(51:21):
just enjoy life, even if it'sjust to sit down with somebody
and go.
You know what.
I understand what you're goingthrough.
I understand.
I can tell and we can have acomfortable conversation.
If you want money because youhave an addiction, let's talk
about that.
Am I going to give you moneyfor your addiction?
No, but I will feed you.

(51:42):
That I will do.
We can meet every day and talkabout something different, and I
don't mind.
I don't mind Because in the end, once I go through that
transition after my expirationdate, where am I going to go?

(52:04):
I'm hoping that there's theheaven that they all talked
about and I get to kick it withGod and go hey, dude, check it
out.
You've seen it.
You know it's like can I atleast have a recliner or
something while I'm chilling,you know.

Vernon West Jr. (52:20):
And then that's wonderful.

Anthony Howard Brown (52:22):
Yeah, and so I get to smile, I get to be
happy, I get to be content in mymoments, and that's priceless,
that is priceless.

Vernon West Jr. (52:29):
Well, anthony Brown, I tell you right now out
of the blue, we're very gratefulto have you in our out of the
blue family.
And Vernon has one morequestion before we go ahead,
Vernon.

Vernon West III. (52:40):
Yeah, because man, I would, I could.
I gotta go kind of soon, but Icould definitely like pick your
brain for a while, cause Iappreciate how you're like
making this all very likepractical, Because, like it's
tough, I think my age group Ilive in LA right now there's a

(53:01):
lot of people that are agnosticor the other one, I forget what
it's called at the momentAtheist.
Yeah, and there's.
You know, we grew up pretty, Igrew up pretty spiritual.
There's a lot of societalpressure to sort of discredit

(53:21):
this god's talk.
I personally do believe in godand like I have a spirituality,
but I I do kind of struggle withlike fully being confident,
honestly.
So, like my question is andthis is for everyone, everyone,
not just me Like what kind ofadvice would you give people

(53:44):
that will allow them to enterinto that like that profound,
like clear space, or get asclose to that as possible where
you can hear some sort ofmessage that feels like it's
from a higher power and it's notjust your thoughts kind of
going power and it's not justyour thoughts, kind of going

(54:06):
like how, how would you?
How would you advise someonewho maybe just likes to meditate
to get into that headspace, tobe open to these out of the blue
moments?

Vernon West Jr. (54:14):
how would you do it?
Or?

Vernon West III. (54:15):
or or for yeah , for someone who hasn't
necessarily been or is, is notaware of their, like a deep
traumatic experience that canrock them to their core and then
like clear up all theirconsciousness.
Is there a way to get therewithout doing that intense like,
getting that intense level oflike awakening?

(54:36):
Or is that are they like tiedtogether.

Anthony Howard Brown (54:39):
No.
Rule number one Okay, learn howto be honest with yourself.
Okay, once you're honest withyourself, then you'll start
believing what you're seeing.
Rule number two ask.
If you have to ask specifically,ask specific and when you get a

(55:00):
specific answer, be honest withyourself.
You know, I asked God to provehimself and the trees turned
pastel and I didn't question it.
And the reason why I waited solong to ask that question
because I had to have two yearsof absence of mind, altering
stuff for me to know that what Isee is real and then the

(55:25):
continuation of all of thisstuff happened.
I mean.
So be honest with yourself,even if you have to say, okay,
look, I know water's wet.
How do you know water's wet?
Because I can reinforce that.
Okay, now ask yourself aquestion.
Now believe in what you see andbe honest about it.

(55:47):
Don't try to push it aside now.
That's just coincidental, okay,Well then that's fine, you know
.
But if you're able to be honestwith yourself and I think
that's a huge question forpeople to even do it's like can
I deal with me?

Vernon West Jr. (56:03):
Really, that is it pretty much.

Anthony Howard Brown (56:07):
You will see.
You will see Beyond thenormality of things.
You will see it and when yousee it, go, okay, that's what
that is, and then continue tobuild on it.
If that's what that is, thenwhat about this?
And next thing, you know,you'll come to realize that
everything is little puzzlepieces just swirling around and

(56:28):
once in a while they'll connect,like oh, okay, it might not
stay, but they will connect andyou'll get a better
understanding, as long as you'rehonest.
Now some, some people will askfor certain things like god, I
want a car and you get a jobinstead.
Okay, great, you know.
How do you think you're goingto pay for the car?

Vernon West Jr. (56:49):
You've got to listen, but that honesty is key
because you have to listen.
That answer might not beexactly what you think it should
be.

Anthony Howard Brown (56:58):
Right right.
It might not.
I mean, when God told me tocome here and sell everything
and come out here and do thisproject, like how I'm going to
do it.
Now I turn around.
I work at a hospital, I have a,I'm a nurse practitioner, I own
my house, I own my car.
I have no build per se, that'show I'm going to do it.

(57:19):
You know, I have no build perse, that's how I'm going to do
it.
And again, I don't have tocomplete it, I just have to do
it.
This only might be just my part, I don't know, but I do it to
the best of my ability and I'mcomfortable doing it.
Therefore, I'm on the righttrack.
So, as far as people meditating, meditation is perfect.
Meditation is perfect becauseall you're doing is just

(57:48):
removing all the externalstimuli so you can feel the
truth of what's happening in anatural order.
But believe it, because whenyou get those little vibrations
and you know all of that stuff,believe what you feel, be honest
with yourself boy.

Vernon West Jr. (57:57):
that's end it right.
Thank you so much for thisamazing, amazing podcast.
Anthony Brown, You're a specialperson.
You really are, Absolutely.
Man think, yeah, I feel likeyou're in my tribe.

(58:20):
I suppose you know we're in thesame kind of.
I'm in the same world.
You are really, spiritually, Ifeel, very much your kin, so you
gave me so much inspirationtoday.
How do you feel, Vern?
Same thing, I bet Right.

Vernon West III. (58:35):
Yeah, I mean this is clearly like two people
whose jobs are, in their faithin something higher, being drawn
to each other, like oh, thankyou.
This is this is an example ofwhat we're talking about.
It's pretty cool.

Vernon West Jr. (58:51):
Well, so I'm going to say thank you, anthony,
once again, and maybe we'llcheck back with you out of the
blue for another episode in somesometime in the future, cause
we'll keep tabs on you and theand the Brown, what's it called?

Anthony Howard Brown (59:05):
The.

Vernon West Jr. (59:05):
Brown Manor.
Okay, yeah, everybody shouldlook that up online too, right,
the Brown Manor?

Anthony Howard Brown (59:09):
Yeah, it's all over the place.

Vernon West Jr. (59:12):
And your wonderful book.

Anthony Howard Brown (59:14):
Park Bench to Park Avenue.
One Man's Journey Out ofHomelessness.

Vernon West Jr. (59:18):
Well, thank you so much, Anthony, for this
wonderful episode today andthank you everybody for tuning
in with us.
My guest host, my host is, myco-host is Vernon, my son,
Vernon III, and we especiallythank you, the listeners, for
tuning in, sharing a valuabletime with us.
We know how valuable it is.
So thank you so much, Anthony,and I really, really you're part

(59:39):
of the Audubon family and I'mtotally honored to have you.

Anthony Howard Brown (59:42):
Well, thank you, I appreciate you
having me Okay good night.

Vernon West Jr. (59:47):
Thanks so much, Anthony.

Anthony Howard Brown (59:47):
Okay, you guys have a great day you too.
Bye-bye everybody.

Vernon West Jr. (59:58):
Out of the Blue , the podcast Hosted by me,
vernon West, co-hosted by VernonWest III, edited by Joe Gallo
Music and logo by Vernon WestIII.
Have an Out of the Blue storyof your own you'd like to share?
Reach us at info atoutoftheblue-thepodcastorg.

(01:00:20):
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