July 8, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when you've built your identity around external validation, only to discover it's all slipping through your fingers? Ellen O'Brien, a talented singer and Berklee College of Music graduate, joins us to share her remarkable journey from unconscious living to profound self-awareness.
Ellen introduces us to her transformative concept of the "internal bowl" – a metaphorical vessel within each of us that can only be filled with self-love, self-respect, self-esteem, self-care, and self-compassion. With honesty, she reveals how she spent decades trying to fill this bowl with external gratifications, only to discover that they inevitably fall through what she calls the "trap door."
Her story takes a dramatic turn when, after moving home to Boston to help with a family illness, Ellen gains 130 pounds from the consumption of externals. This wake-up call becomes the catalyst for her second chance at recovery. Ellen shares her realization with unflinching candor: "My suffering was of my own making." People, places, and things didn't need to change for her to feel better. She did.
The conversation delves into fascinating insights about brain function, the role of the amygdala in anxiety, and practical techniques for maintaining mental wellness. Ellen explains how daily mindfulness practices, morning affirmations, and consistent gratitude have transformed her from a "hollow chocolate Easter bunny" to a solid one.
Whether you're struggling with addiction, anxiety, or simply feeling unfulfilled despite outward success, Ellen's journey offers profound wisdom about finding your way forward. Join us for this deeply inspiring conversation about resilience and transformation. Discover how sometimes it's the out-of-the-blue moments that lead to our greatest breakthroughs.
Resources:
Jason Stephenson - Guided Sleep Meditation: youtube.com/@jasonstephensonmeditation
Louise Hay - 11.11 Affirm The Best Version of Yourself: youtube.com/watch?v=yQHBomPOYNE
Dr. Joe Dispenza - Use Your Thoughts to Optimize Your Health: youtube.com/watch?v=2gDr9V_vmFY
Out Of The Blue:
For more: outoftheblue-thepodcast.org
For exclusive content: patreon.com/podcastOOTB
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to Out of the Blue, the podcast Platform
dedicated to celebratinginspirational stories of people
from all walks of life,overcoming life-changing
experiences, who found their wayforward.
I'm your host, vernon West, andmy co-host for today's episode
is my daughter, jackie West, who, along with being our social
(00:43):
media and marketing manager, isalso a professional musician and
Reiki healer.
And I want to especially thankyou, our listeners, for joining
us today and giving us yourprecious time and attention.
We know just how valuable thatis and please remember to smash
that like button and hit thatsubscribe button, because
(01:04):
everything helps to get the wordout there.
This week, on Out of the Blue,the podcast, we're honored to
welcome Ellen O'Brien, born andraised in Revere, massachusetts,
and now based in New York City.
Ellen is a gifted singer and aproud graduate of Berklee
College of Music.
She was living her dream,performing in nightclubs and
building a thriving career untilout of the blue, life took an
(01:27):
unexpected turn.
Ellen's powerful journey ofsurvival and recovery is both
unforgettable and deeplyinspiring.
Today, she is a renowned vocalcoach with students from around
the globe.
Her story is a testament toresilience, transformation and
the power of holding on, becausesometimes the miracle is just
(01:48):
around the corner.
Hi, ellen, and welcome to Outof the Blue the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Hi Vernon, Hi Jackie, how are you today?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So good, yes, very good, grateful to be here.
So what's your?
Let's start it off with whatbrings you to Out of the Blue,
other than you being an old,dear friend of mine.
But we're talking about theactual events that you restarted
this whole journey.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So thank you so much for having me here and I'm so
grateful and honored to be here.
Actually, I've always worked inprofessions.
I'm a singer.
I've been singing in jazz clubssince I was 12 years old and I
have been around people, a lotof people at once.
When I'm singing, when you livein New York have to work a side
(02:42):
job.
So I was always bartending orwaitressing.
So the bars I worked at, thehotels, restaurants, they were
always uber busy and the beautyof that is you keep seeing the
same human behavior over andover again.
And you know, out of the bluehere with me is I could call
(03:04):
everybody else's behavior and Icould see what everybody else
was doing, but I couldn't seemyself.
I couldn't see my own behaviors.
Yeah, my whole life was alwaysabout getting all the externals
and this is a big thing.
You know, when I coach andthat's another thing I never
wanted to teach.
I was always nope, I'm justgoing to sing, I just want to
(03:27):
sing, I want to perform.
Don't what am I even going toteach anybody?
It was so natural for me to dowhat I did and so I just thought
I'd be a horrible teacher.
So the fact that I actuallycoached during the day is funny,
but I at this point could neverimagine my life, so teaching
was out of the blue.
That's.
(03:47):
That's number one.
Um, I did not realize that fordecades now.
When I was younger, I wanted tobe rich and famous and that's
all I knew and I never reallythought about it.
I just wanted to be rich andfamous, um, uh I.
I give metaphors of visuals tomy kids that they can.
It's palpable for them.
(04:08):
So I always say we all havethis little internal bowl.
Think of a little ramekin bowland it can only be filled with
internals by us.
And so there's five internalsthat I tell them Self-love,
self-respect, self-esteem,self-care and self-compassion.
Now, how do I fill that bowl up?
(04:30):
Because that's the nextquestion they always ask me and
I say all right, for instance,there's a boyfriend or there's a
friend that I realize is toxic,I set a healthy boundary.
It could be a family member,even I set a healthy boundary.
Well, when I set a healthyboundary, I just put self-care
into that internal bowl.
(04:51):
And who follows?
Self-care, self-love,self-respect and self-esteem.
So I'm filling my bowl upInstead of beating myself up
when I make a mistake or dosomething wrong.
The person I was before wouldget angry.
I'm so stupid and just beatmyself up when I make a mistake
or do something wrong.
The person I was before wouldget angry.
I'm so stupid and just beatmyself up, and I don't do that
anymore.
(05:11):
I have self-compassion.
So there's my self-care.
You know my self-compassion.
Who follows self-compassion,self-love, self-respect,
self-esteem, and it's self-care.
So every time I do these, youknow whatever I think, whatever
I say, whatever action I take ordecision I make is either going
to add those ingredients in mybowl or deplete it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
This sounds like where you have come.
You are definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
This is your place, I think what to let our audience
hear how you earned this spot,because you definitely didn't
just wake up one day.
Oh no, what what I realized is,all these years I was trying to
fill this internal bowl withexternals.
So this was the second half ofit.
So there's a trap door forexternals.
(05:56):
Again, I'm teaching, you knowyounger people, so I make it
palpable, so they can.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, oh, I get that I get that.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I always say there's a trap door for externals.
So I tried to fill that bowlwith men, money, clothes,
alcohol, weed, sugar, everythingand guess what?
I felt good for a while whileit was going through the bowl,
but as soon as it went throughthe trap door I needed more.
(06:26):
I was walking aroundunconscious for many decades,
not not paying attention to whatwas going on here.
But again, I don't beat myselfup because one of my very good
friends this guy named Jay he'sfrom Rhode Island he said to me
one day you know, we live in aforward moving universe Island.
He said to me one day you know,we live in a forward moving
(06:49):
universe and I was like and hesaid, you know, we can't go back
to yesterday, whatever day itwas it was Tuesday or something.
He's like it's Tuesday, wecan't go back to Monday.
And so I don't beat myself upfor what I didn't know or what I
didn't get.
So, moving forward, the out ofthe blue, the experience that I
had, that really changed a lotfor me.
(07:09):
And again, I've had a lot ofout of the blue experiences over
my lifetime, but the biggestthing was in 2015.
So I chose to move home toBoston back in 2005 to help out
with the family illness, and Istayed there for eight years.
(07:29):
I wasn't doing well, I wasgetting depressed.
I started eating a lot of sugarlike just eating processed
foods and sitting on the couchat night watching TV and I just
basically wanted to numb myselfbecause that that's the, the
tool that I knew so well.
(07:50):
Why was I doing this?
And it's another out of theblue experience, which was, you
know, what I finally came torealize was I was in a lot of
mental pain and I was in a lotof emotional pain and I asked
this of anyone, whether theyhave any addiction issues or
they're a normal person.
What do you do when you have aheadache?
(08:11):
You take something to numb thepain.
You know, I?
I know, unfortunately, youngpeople that have taken their
lives because they just couldn'tbear the mental or emotional
pain they were in.
And if somebody just talked tothem and said, listen, this is
what's going on.
So I'm a big advocate of you,know, I always and I'm glad I'm
(08:36):
saying this right now becauseI've said this to numerous
people.
I've never said it publicly,but I got so aggravated when
people were arguing about whatbooks kids should be reading in
school like Dr Seuss shouldn'tbe allowed or whatever the hell
they were saying and I said,instead of you people arguing
about what books these kidsshould be reading, why don't we
(08:57):
teach them about the computerthat's running, this machine
that navigates them through life, and how to like, take care of
it, what foods to eat to nourishit?
A metaphor I give my kids onceagain, and I love this metaphor.
I say to them think of yourbrain, the organ itself, like
the claw that picks up thestuffed animals at the arcade,
(09:19):
and then your conscious thoughtsor your senses are the lever
that moves the claw.
So the claw is only going tomove in the direction the lever
sends it to.
So if I wake up every morning,like I used to, and have
thoughts like and they can bevery fleeting Sometimes I don't
even realize.
That's why I say I was walkingunconsciously, you know, walking
(09:40):
around this earth unconsciouslyfor so many decades.
So I could have these fleetingthoughts of nobody's ever going
to love me, I'm a piece of crap,I'm never going to amount to be
anything.
I used to have those thoughts.
Well, that's where I moved theclock, you know.
That's the level was going andI was moving the clock and that
became my reality.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So until you made the , you made a choice.
That's what I'm hearing.
You made a choice.
That's what I'm.
You made a choice.
I think the thing that hits meabout this kind of recovery
you're talking about I'vepersonally experienced something
like that myself is that whenyou have that long, hard look at
yourself, you're doing a selfaudit in a way, and you find in
(10:21):
the things that push yourbuttons and you learn about the
triggers in your mind and youtry to alleviate them, maybe
compensate for them or get ridof them through some
understanding.
But ultimately, after you gothrough all that, you're able to
actually see the good things.
You can't get to the goodthings until you get do house,
(10:44):
get at the stuff that you've gotto clean up, but when you do
that, you start seeing thethings that you are, that are
commendable.
That are the things youappreciate seeing in others.
You have them too.
It seems like that's whatyou're coming into now.
You're coming into the wisdomthat is really your right to
have as a human being, and youfound your way to it after
(11:08):
getting through really havingbeen brought to your knees from
the working out of the characterdefects.
I guess, right, that would bewhat it is.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Absolutely and not getting too much into it, but my
out of the blue experience.
I had two major things thathappened that were really a big
show.
Well, three major things.
The first thing was I did, youknow I did get into recovery, so
I'll just say that right hereum and yeah, and I, I literally
have no shame.
You know I always joke about um.
(11:43):
You know, in what I do we don'tsay our last names, but I
always joke that the way I amnow I should be saying my last
name, Cause when I was actinglike an ass in a bar or you know
, doing stupid crap like I usedto do, you know I was like hey,
I'm.
(12:03):
Ellen O'Brien.
I was like yelling my nameeverywhere.
So what happened to me was thebiggest out of the blue
experience was I when I movedhome.
The reason why I moved home wasI.
The front of my brain wassaying I'm going to move home
and help out with this person'sillness.
(12:25):
The back of my head and Ididn't get this until later on,
years later was I still waslooking for the externals.
I physically was sober, but Iwasn't mentally sober or
(12:46):
spiritually sober so to speak.
I did not grow up yet and I wasspiritually weak.
And so at that, it was aseven-year mark and I said and I
didn't say it was in the frontof my brain these are these
fleeting, unconscious,subconscious thoughts that you
don't even realize are happening.
I'm not rich and famous.
I don't have a husband andchild.
(13:08):
God doesn't know what he'sdoing, so I'm going to take over
and I'll pull a geographic.
That's basically it, yep.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yep Taking over for God.
I like that one.
I think we've all done that.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I moved home, I quit my job Within three weeks, I did
this and now I lived in NewYork for 10 years at that time
and everybody was like what areyou doing?
And my sponsor even said to mewhat are you doing?
And I was just like no, this iswhat God wants me to do, you
know, I know.
And she actually said she hadto stop sponsoring me.
(13:40):
She's like I can't watch this.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
And.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I moved home, I did get a sponsor up in boston, but,
um, I still had, you know, andI, I just I keep saying this
recently they only call italcoholism because that was the
major the, the, that was a majordrug at the time, that was the
substance that everybody wasusing to numb this, but the
(14:05):
actual disease itself for me ismy thinking.
And my thinking is mentallypainful.
It's painful, it's very painfulthinking.
It's anxious thinking, it'snegative thinking, it's fearful
thinking.
It's self-centered thinking.
That's very fearful thinking.
It's self-centered thinking,that's very painful thinking.
(14:25):
But again, it's kind of like ifsomebody's gluten intolerant or
lactose intolerant, they don'tknow it.
I mean, a lot of us are eatingfoods we shouldn't be eating
right now, but you'll never know.
So this is how I realized this.
I went to a doctor.
His name's Dr Frank Lipman.
He's realize this.
(14:47):
I went to a doctor.
His name's Dr Frank Lipman.
He's amazing.
A lot of people go to him fromall over the world, actually,
but he's based here in New YorkCity and he's a Western trained
internist, but he is huge withEastern medicine and he's like
we get to the core of the issue.
There's no like take a pill.
He has a bandaid.
Again, I always want to saythis to people I am not a doctor
(15:07):
, and there are people that doneed medication.
For me, though, this, that wasnot the case, okay, so I always
want to say that, because we arenot doctors.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
No, we don't want to dispense any medical advice,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Absolutely so.
I went to Dr Lippman and thiswas back in 2000.
And I just didn't feel good.
I was, I never broke out mylife and I was breaking out.
And he took me into his office.
I'm like what kind of doctor isthis?
There's no, you knowexamination room or anything.
And he just just said give meyour day of eating.
(15:47):
How many cups of coffee do youdrink?
Um, how many hours do you sleepat night?
Do you wake up at night?
And he's just asking me aboutmy life and my daily living.
And I was like what the hell isthat?
You know, because this is backin the day when none of there
was no whole foods, there was nogreen juices I mean, there were
, but people call people thatdid stuff like that Crunchy
(16:09):
granola people, right?
So, um, he said, I'm going toput you on a three week cleanse
no dairy, no sugar, no wheat.
And I did it and my sister andmy friend, jay, to this day,
will say to me that is the bestyou ever looked or felt.
And so long fast forward.
(16:34):
I went back to him around 2016,2015.
And this time he took me off um, no processed foods, no sugar,
sugar, um, so like bread madewith you know anything that was
processed and no dairy.
So one day it was about threeweeks later I was downtown in
the village and, um, I waseating at this uh restaurant and
(16:56):
I ordered some pasta that had acream base in it.
I got a sick stomach and myankle swelled up so fast.
So why I'm saying this is a lotof us are walking around sick,
but we don't realize it untilit's taken out of our system.
(17:16):
There was a woman that told meduring COVID she started
drinking like a half a bottle toa bottle of wine every night.
A lot of people did, andbecause there's nothing left to
you know nothing else to do, sopeople would drink wine and um,
or whatever.
And this one woman said I wasdrinking a half a bottle to a
bottle of wine and after twomonths I realized I'm gaining
(17:37):
weight, I feel sluggish, and soI just stopped.
And I said and there's, thephysical part of that disease,
of addiction, is, everyone hasan on switch.
Everybody can take a bite of acookie, have a sip of wine,
whatever, but an addict or analcoholic doesn't have an off
switch.
So when people say to peoplewell, what about your willpower.
(17:58):
Well, willpower is great, butif there's no off switch, no,
willpower can't do anything.
If there's no off switch, right.
So that's the physical part.
So again, the mental part,again, that I wasn't aware of,
was I was in mental pain andemotional pain and I didn't know
(18:19):
better.
So I was just grabbing atanything that would numb me, and
it was sugar and it was alcohol, and it was just trying to
focus my brain on something thatwould make me feel okay and
comfortable.
Going back to the substances,for years I woke up with a
(18:40):
headache.
For years I woke up with somuch mucus in my vocal cords and
in my nose I thought this wasnormal.
I just thought this is, this isI'm, I'm healthy, this is how
it works.
And then, when I stoppedputting all substances,
including sugar, in my body, Icleared up.
(19:02):
I have like no phlegm.
You know I have regular amountof mucus, but you know I have a
clear voice.
I don't wake up with adehydrated brain because I drank
so much alcohol and dehydratedmyself and I feel like
somebody's putting a jackhammeron my head.
I don't wake up like thatanymore.
But I would have never knownthat I had this illness or this
(19:26):
sickness if I didn't take it outof my system for a while.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, you know, it seems like to me just to
remember about out of the blue,that the out of the blue things
that have happened.
So you go from that point intime where you're managing the
input of the physical, the stuffthat you said has a trap door,
and as you're managing that, yougo through your life, you're
managing the physical intake ofthings you think are going to
(19:52):
make you, promote happiness,make you feel better, but then,
as you start to wake up to thefact that this is the wrong way,
this isn't happening and youstill keep trying because you
know that's what we do, that'sour tendency, as if you're an
addict or an addicted personeven just some normal people
like that you just think you'vegot to keep trying again.
May well get it right, but youdon't get it right.
(20:14):
But, out of the blue, thingsare directing you, things are
telling you oh, absolutely, whatis it?
That's what I'm saying.
The mystery of it all is that,from out of the blue, this
benevolent influence on our lifestarts to manifest and you made
a choice to listen to it.
That's the thing that I think isthe takeaway that I think
(20:36):
anyone listening should knowthis that you can have these
things that Ellen's talkingabout, but when you make a
choice to say you know there's abetter way, there's people that
found a way through this, finda way forward, then you take the
, you follow those leadings andthat's what look at you.
You will follow those leadings.
That would happen in 2015.
(20:57):
And here we are 10 years later.
The journey of getting there iswhat's interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Exactly and before 2015,.
What happened?
So, when I moved home to Boston, like I said, I still was going
to meetings and I had a sponsor, but, again, I didn't grow up
emotionally and I wasn'tspiritually fit, but I was
physically sober.
So that I always want to make apoint of saying that, because
(21:24):
there's a lot of people that arephysically sober, right, but we
keep forgetting that the symbolis a triangle, because it's
mental, spiritual and physical.
And so what I was doing was Iwas making unsober decisions,
going out with people that Ishouldn't have been going out
with.
My old behavior and mentalthought process was still strong
(21:46):
.
What did I do?
I had a herniated disc and theygave me muscle relaxers that
now are classified as D.
10 years later, they classifiedit, but, you know, I started
taking these muscle relaxers andthen, the next thing I know, I
picked up a glass of wine, whichprobably saved my life because
(22:08):
I stopped taking the musclerelaxers.
But again, a rose is a rose byany name.
A substance is a substance is asubstance.
You know it's like what's yourtrigger?
You'll never catch meovereating celery sticks, but if
you put a thing of Hershey'sKisses in front of me, I'll cut
your hand off if you go for oneof them, you know.
(22:29):
So I just had to learn what mytriggers were.
So, long story short, I'mmaking all these bad decisions
and I am mentally andemotionally in pain and I pick
up.
But again, I'm not drinking asmuch, but I started eating and
the funny story is I waswatching Top Chef and the
(22:50):
hostess, pat Malashky.
She's gorgeous, she's tall,she's thin, she's beautiful, and
you see them trying the foodand they're sitting and they
have the glass of red wine.
And I would sit there and Ijust said there was just one
point that I felt like I was ona fence, like I loved all the
principles, I loved all thesolutions, um, but I just didn't
(23:13):
feel like I belong thereanymore.
And then I'm watching peoplelike her and you know, when I'd
be out singing, I would see youknow people with their boyfriend
having a glass of wine.
And I was like you know, I justwant to be a normal person
again and be able to be thatperson that sits with their
boyfriend and has a glass ofwine and a nice dinner or
(23:33):
whatever.
And so I did.
But again, here's the mentalinsanity.
I would go to Trader Joe's inKenmore Square.
I'd get their finest bottle ofred wine.
I'd get their finest bottle ofred wine.
(23:55):
I'd buy a block of brie cheese.
French bread, um, like abaguette.
Um, you know, I thought that ifI and here's the the insanity
you know I used to eat Hershey'sbars and Skittles and stuff
like that.
So I was like, no, if I spendmoney and I get like a, um, you
know, go to a fancy bakery andget like a piece of lemon
meringue pie or you know a youknow $20 bar of chocolate,
(24:16):
that's much better for me.
And so I was in Winthrop, in myapartment watching TV that's
where I was living at the timeand I would just sit, and, you
know, watch TV, drinking my redwine, eating all this stuff.
For like two, three hours Nowwas I sitting there with 20 Big
Macs, like you see on TLC, onsome of those shows.
(24:38):
No, sometimes it was justthroughout the day.
Oh, I had eggs for breakfast,so it's 1030.
I'll have a croissant.
Oh, it's 12.
So I'll have like a salad withsome salmon on it.
You know what?
I had a salad with some salmon,so I'm going to have some
chocolate.
It's dinner time.
So again, I was negotiating andand being my own pharmacist
(25:01):
with food, and so pharmacistFARM pharmacist F-A-R-M
pharmacist Pharmacist.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I have an observation Even though the
uncomfortability of negotiatingis there, what I've observed in
my own experience with thesekinds of things is that that's
also you inching your way out ofit, because you're starting to
(25:28):
become conscious of choosingsomething, even if it is, wow,
choosing, you know, to do thesame kind of space, um, what,
what did you call it like?
Like the to fill the space,kind of the internal bowl.
Yeah, the internal bowl, um withwith a trap door entity, you're
(25:53):
you're becoming more practicedwith how and who enters.
You know that's amazing yeah,like taking your way out.
I think there is something tobe said about it's so, so hard
to come out of addiction.
You know cause you're, it's allyou're.
You're feeling really out ofcontrol, yeah, and I think, I
(26:19):
think there is there's a lotwith inching your way out.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
And and Jackie, to your point and go back to
Vernon's point earlier.
That's an out of the blue thing, because what he said is
there's like this, this force,this you know you can't see it,
they you know what.
What is quantum theory?
It's the study of this energythat is not seen and you can't
feel it, but it is there.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I just want to one observation throughout this.
When you started talking aboutthe inner bowls, the first thing
that popped in my mind was thisold saying by a French
philosopher, pascal, and I'mgoing to summarize it, but it's
a lot longer and a lot morewordy.
He basically says and I'm goingto change the inside, everyone
(27:03):
is a God-shaped void.
And what he says is really inthis case, we're going to say
inside, everyone is a God shapedbowl, and the only thing that
can fill it is that spiritualthings, spiritual things, fill
it.
Anything else goes right outthe bottom.
We'll not fill that void.
So we have to, in our lives,find a way to fill that void
(27:25):
with things that are spiritual,that are infinite, that are
spiritual that are infinite,that are, yeah, absolutely great
, so powerful you knowabsolutely so.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
To your point, though , about the electricity and the
what you were saying, vernon,it's like there's something that
was guiding.
I just again was guiding youinto that place, right?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
and I was conscious to it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
But if you think of electricity, and I always say
this, you know people will saywell, there, there is no I, I
don't feel god, I don't but theyou don't feel electricity, but
it's there.
All you have to do is plug thelight in.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Oh yeah, like on I might also add that I have an
electrical charge as human.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Everything in the universe is electric.
Everything in the universe isenergy.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I mean, yeah, I mean you can say the universe,
God, higher power.
You can also say you wereliving in your thoughts and what
actually informed you was yourheart area, your body.
Your body has wisdom andtelling you and if you can, if
(28:36):
you can tune in and often tuninginto your body is a wordless
place- it's just breath, and Imean as singers that's, we care
a lot about breath and how, howto encourage expression through
it.
And absolutely yeah, I mean, Ijust see that a lot of the, the
(29:02):
disconnect happens from a, froma literal disconnect of brain
and body.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Absolutely Well, you know it's funny.
You're saying this is my bodyand getting to.
What happened to me is I'msitting in this on this couch
eating every night and I didn'teven see it happening, but I
gained 130 pounds.
I gained an entire person.
I was somebody that used to runCentral Park six miles every
(29:29):
day.
I taught fitness classes, I waseating so healthy and next
thing I know I'm sitting on acouch eating and drinking myself
130 pounds heavier, Like I wasnever that heavy in my life and
I had that, as Vernon talkedabout before that second moment
of clarity.
Not many people get that, youknow, and I'm one of the
(29:49):
grateful ones that I got thatbecause there is a funeral that
could happen.
I've been to many funerals thatthe people that didn't get it
the second time, and so when Iget a second chance, right when
you get a second chanceabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
What is so unbelievable thing, that is so
great?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
When the doctor said to me listen, this is how much
you weigh and your blood sugaris this, and if you don't get a
grip off yourself, you're goingto be pre-diabetic, and then
there's no turning back.
At that moment I walked out ofher office and I said God, and
before I moved home to Boston, II had a savings, I had a job
(30:29):
where I had a 401k and um,health and medical, I had
everything.
And at this point, again, eightyears, uh, what was it?
Uh, 2005.
So it was 2012.
So seven years later, I did notsee how fast my life went down.
I walked out the door and Iwent God, I don't know how we're
(30:50):
going to do this, but thehappiest and healthiest I was
was when I was in New York,because this is where I got
sober originally in 1996.
And I said I don't know howyou're going to make this happen
, but I need to go back to NewYork.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I like the way you say you don't know how you're
going to make this, this happen,because that's how you got to
be.
When you're talking to thehigher power, you kind of have
to say that.
You kind of got to admit youare the power, that's the power,
so we just got to do the rightthing.
And I think you're followingthat gut feeling, following that
, going to New York.
I think that was following thatimpulse from out of the blue.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, are you ready for the out of the blue?
I think it was the very nextweek, it might've been two weeks
later I get a phone call from amusician who I used to work
with and he said I'm gettingmarried Labor Day weekend.
I'm putting my dream bandtogether and I want you as the
lead singer.
So he said I'm going to pay youand I drove down.
It was Labor Day weekend, 2012.
(31:51):
And I didn't go to any meetings, but when I was here, I was
like I need to come back.
I went back to Winthrop withinthree weeks I had a and again,
I'm not sober yet, so I'm notreally thinking three things
through.
But I went back home and I hadan apartment sale and basically
(32:11):
sold everything I owned exceptmy dog and my car.
I showed up on October 1st 2012,about 30 pounds heavier than I
used to be.
No job, no credit.
A friend, let me sleep on asleep sofa.
For a month and a half he usedto be in the program as well and
(32:37):
he wasn't.
And the funny thing is, Istarted to see his behavior and
I went oh my God, I need to goto a meeting.
I don't know what it was aboutit.
But it was like frenetic energyand I was like I need to get to
a meeting and I walked into ameeting where everyone knew me,
(32:57):
where they thought I had 17years, and I raised my hand and
I said I had one day andliterally everybody had whiplash
because I was that girl.
That was the AA.
You know, I was the posterchild, sponsored people, I had a
sponsor.
I chaired meetings.
I was at every.
I went to meetings seven days aweek.
(33:18):
I was the last person youthought would go out.
And again I almost went outbecause I'm sitting and I I'm
not listening to thesimilarities, I'm comparing and
I'm not listening to thesimilarities.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I'm comparing and I'm not identifying.
Correct, right.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I was never arrested, I never had to go to rehab See,
I'm not that bad Right and Ialmost went out and it was
January 2013.
And I had two months and thisbeautiful woman got up and she
shared and she had four kids.
And she said you know, I'vebeen in and out of this program
seven different times, but ittook me those many times to
(33:56):
finally realize that sobrietywasn't about my drinking, it was
about my thinking.
And all of a sudden, I went, I,I I've probably heard it a
million times, but at thatmoment and I went.
You mean, I don't have to have apissing contest with everybody
(34:17):
of who was worse than who, likethis is.
This doesn't think right.
This always thinks anxietyfilled things.
This always projects negativity.
This is always thinkingnegative.
This is always saying negativethings.
And so when I heard that thatchanged, that was an out of the
blue moment and yep, and so Ikept on my journey.
(34:38):
But then here I was, sevenyears later, like the seven year
itch of marriage, the sevenyear itch of recovery, and it
was almost COVID.
It was November.
I was hardly going to meetingsagain.
I started going to my doctors,going oh, I think I need Xanax
because I get very, I have a lotof anxiety and you know, and
(35:06):
I've done this many times before, where I just don't do the work
and I feel bad again.
And now I'm looking for the easyway out.
I'm looking for that bandaidagain, that quick fix that you
know, that external and theinternal bowl, so I can feel
better, get that inner peacethat eluded me for all these
years.
And the best thing and I to me,because now I'm in this
apartment, I have nowhere to goand we have Zoom meetings and
(35:38):
I'm on a meeting one night andthere was a guy from LA who was
in Bali at the time and he wasqualifying and he said I had 10
years, he was a famous DJ, hehad the job, he had the money, a
beautiful girlfriend, he hadall the externals.
And he said and I wanted tocommit suicide, I wanted to kill
myself, I was miserable.
And he shared about it in ameeting and some old timer
(36:01):
walked up to him and said I'mgoing to take you through the
big book the way it wasoriginally intended.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Just for those who don't know, the big book is the
Alcoholics Anonymous book.
It's the big blue book of thewhole program.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And basically all it is.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's referred to as the big book.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
But go ahead, right.
But all it is is it's theblueprint, it's the manual of
the first hundred people.
That's what the big book is.
It's the first hundred andsixty-four pages.
They said we finally figuredout not only how to survive from
this disease, but to thrive.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
What did they actually say?
They said it's a spiritual cure.
That's the way you can, theonly solution to the alcohol
addiction, and, matter of fact,I think that would cover just
about every kind of addiction.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It covers every human ailment.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And let me just say the way I, because again, the
only healing of filling thatbowl is the spiritual healing.
That's the only way.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
But I just want to say this because I have a lot of
friends that are Muslim andJewish and Christian and
Catholic and atheists andagnostics.
So I'm going to say thisbecause this is how I describe
spirituality.
Spirituality, is it found inreligions?
Absolutely, but is spiritualityreligion?
No, what spirituality for me isis it's how we navigate
(37:27):
relationships and lifesituations.
Do we come from a place of fear, ego and false pride, or do we
come from a place of love,integrity and humility?
So I'd always came from a placeof fear, ego and false pride in
all my relationships and alllife situations.
I now work every day,throughout my day, and getting
(37:51):
back to that, you know what doyou do throughout the day?
I into.
I have into woven everythingthat I've been taught into my
entire day.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
So fabric of your life.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's the fabric of my life.
So I I literally walk aroundthroughout the day and at
different points of the day,because, again, I started
studying how the brain works andyou have to exercise it.
You have it's not.
It's not a muscle, but you dohave to exercise it like it is a
muscle.
And how do you exercise it?
You give it an order.
(38:25):
And so throughout the day Iwill walk around and I just will
say, at random times I comefrom a place of love and
integrity.
I come from a place of love andintegrity.
I come from a place of love andintegrity.
The more I say that, thatbecomes my reality.
So the one thing about the brainthat people don't, you know,
might not know, is you have yourconscious side and you have
(38:45):
your subconscious side.
So your brain is a computer,it's a binary computer is a
computer, it's a binary computer.
But how I describe this?
Once again, when I teach kidsor whoever, what I say to them
is this is what you have toremember.
You have your conscious sidethat you have to give an order
to.
If you don't give it an order,you've got a best friend, You've
(39:09):
got your security guard calledthe amygdala.
Now the brain's primary purposebefore thinking is to make sure
that this machine it's runningstays alive and safe.
So here's your little thing.
If you don't give it an order,he's over here going.
Oh crap, she doesn't have aplan.
I need to jump in and take overNow.
(39:29):
The amygdala is never lookingat the rainbows and butterflies,
it's only going to look at thethings that are going to harm
you.
There's your negative andanxious thinking.
So here's my little, and Jackiewill appreciate this.
He is standing at a trainplatform in Manhattan.
Now, over the loud speakerbecause sometimes it's not clear
, but over the loud speakerclearly says please let them off
(39:53):
the train before you get on thetrain.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I really wish that they did that.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Two seconds later, a train pulls up, the doors open
and people are jamming onto thetrain before anybody gets off.
So I used to sit at the 59thstreet station waiting for the
end of the yard to go to thetime square when I used to work
down there and I would just go.
Are these people stupid?
I wanted to write a book calledAre you that Stupid or you Just
(40:17):
Don't Care, because I thoughtthere were only two reasons why
you would do something soobviously insane like that.
Well, I again started studyinga little layman of the brain and
what I realized was it wasn'tthat they were stupid or they
didn't care.
There was no conscious thought,the order being given to the
(40:38):
conscious part of the brain.
You're going to be okay, you'regoing to get on the train If
you let them off first, you'regoing to get on quicker.
Everything's fine, you're good.
If I'm not relaxing him orgiving him an order, he's over
here going crap.
If you don't get on the train,you're not.
If I'm not relaxing him orgiving him an order, he's over
here going crap.
If you don't get on the train,you're not going to get to work
on time.
If you get fired, then youcan't put food on the table for
(41:01):
the family.
That's life and death for thatperson.
That is a fight or flight forthat person, not getting fired.
So the beauty of the, the notthe beauty.
But the funny thing about theamygdala it doesn't know the
difference between physical harmand social harm.
So that was a big thing for me.
(41:21):
So a big part of going back tomy daily stuff is being very
mindful.
I also take Buddhist meditationclass every Saturday morning.
I'm in my seventh year.
A great form of meditation forany age group is just saying to
(41:42):
your brain and you can say itout loud if you live alone, or
say it to yourself if there'speople around I'm walking to the
bathroom, I'm making a cup ofcoffee.
Just say what you're doing,just acknowledge.
Say to your brain I am washingthe dishes.
Right now I am on a Zoom callwith Vernon and Jackie.
What that does is it keeps mein the present moment.
(42:04):
So, going back to this guy thatdid the big book with me and he
made me write this paragraphdown and then he made me say it
and when I read it out loud Iwent oh my God, this was me my
entire life.
And again, whether you haveaddiction or you don't.
I know a lot of people thatwhen I say this paragraph, to
(42:25):
them, they go.
Oh, my God, that's me, in myself centered way.
I think the most importantthing is the way I feel.
I want people, places andsituations to change so I can
feel better.
I will go to any lengths tomake things become what I want
them to become so I can feelbetter.
And there I was trapped,waiting for all these things to
(42:48):
change so I could feel better.
Therefore, my suffering was ofmy own making.
The good news is, I can behealed or helped, and people,
places and things don't have tochange for me to feel better.
So when I heard that, I justwent.
That is literally what I tried,and there was my mental pain
(43:10):
and my emotional pain.
I kept trying to change myexternals so I could have
internal peace.
But when you are thinking thatthose external things are going
to give you in a piece and andfill that bowl, that there's
where we all get in trouble.
So I never have an issue.
I, I'm not one of those that,oh, money's evil and things are
(43:32):
evil.
No, what I will say is we livein a society that makes money
off of us thinking we needsomething to make us feel
happier or feel included.
And so we have what I like torefer to as the hollow chocolate
(43:54):
Easter bunny.
So you know, at Easter time wehave two different bunnies we
have a hollow Easter bunny and asolid chocolate Easter bunny.
And a lot of us have grown upbeing trained to just focus on
the externals and none of us didthe internal work.
So we look good on the outsidebut there's nothing inside.
(44:22):
We're a hollow Easter bunny,and so the work that I finally
realized that I had to do wasall internal and I'm now a solid
chocolate Easter bunny.
And the last thing I'll say isthe reason why affirmations
don't work when a lot of peopledo them consciously during the
day is because you forget thatthere's this subconscious part
of us that the door is only openat night, when right before we
(44:43):
go to sleep, while we'resleeping or when we wake up
stuff.
Like you know, I have a strong,healthy, beautiful body.
I love fruits and vegetables.
I'm a successful singer,songwriter and voice coach.
Even though I was consciouslyduring the day saying it, I
didn't realize that all thoseold tapes, what I said to myself
(45:04):
, what other people said to mewhen I was younger, they were
still in the subconscious partof me.
So I started listening toaffirmations right before sleep.
Or if I don't listen at night,I wake up in the morning and I
listen to it right at themorning.
That's when it gets into yoursubconscious, that's when the
doors open.
Jason Stevenson he's got thisbeautiful Australian accent and
(45:25):
beautiful music.
Love listening to him.
Louise Hay is the OG ofaffirmations and self-help and
gratitude.
Gratitude is an abundancemagnet.
And how do I practice gratitude?
I take a hot shower in themorning.
Thank you God for hot water,because most people don't have
that luxury.
(45:46):
I'm drinking clean water.
Thank you God for clean water.
Most people on this earth don'thave that luxury.
I walked down the streets ofNew York this shit on the
streets and this is a big thingthat I think everybody needs to
hear too.
My life isn't, you know, I'm notlike everything's going great
every day, but the point is andthat's the spiritual heavy, you
(46:07):
know, that's the heavy trainingis everybody can be grateful
when things are going well, whenI'm sobbing in grief cause I
just lost, you know, someoneimportant in my life, and I'm
literally sobbing my eyes out tosay to myself find one thing
that you're grateful for rightnow, and to be able to say thank
(46:31):
you, God, for allowing thatsoul to be in my life, for that
those that time.
So my stuff is practical and Ido it throughout the day, and
the more you do it, the strongerit gets.
So for those of and I'll justsay this, sorry for those of you
that are having a hard time andsay I can't stop thinking the
way I think and yeah, it's hardat first because those spiritual
(46:54):
muscles are weak, thoseemotionally mature muscles are
weak.
That's why you have to justkeep showing up consistency and
tenacity.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Keep showing up that.
That is the thing I would say.
The biggest takeaway here is atthe end.
Here is gratitude, and I'mgoing to say, ellen, you are a
poster child for not for so manythings.
One of them is definitely forout of the blue gratitude,
because your whole life has beenone long test, really, and
(47:24):
growth experience, and it seemslike the thread that connects it
all is that gratitude that hasled you to this place in your
life.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Well, Vernon and Jackie, I am grateful for you
today and just to spend timewith you.
You both have beautiful energyand you're doing so good for the
world yourselves and it's likethat's why we go through those
hard times.
It's not because we're gettingpunished, it's to make us
stronger.
It's kind of like we get thislight and we pass the torch to
the person behind us and helpthem see that there is a way.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
There is a way.
That's right there.
That's the place.
Help them see there is a way.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Out of the Blue.
I'm Vernon West, this is JackieWest and, of course, the
inimitable honored to have her,ellen O'Brien.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Thank you from Out of the blueand I hope to see you next time
on out of the blue, the podcastout of the blue, the podcast
(48:27):
hosted by me, vernon west,co-hosted by j Vernon West,
co-hosted by Jacqueline West,edited by Joe Gallo Music and
logo by Vernon West III.
Have an Out of the Blue storyof your own you'd like to share?
Reach us at info atoutoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
Subscribe to Out of the Blue onApple Podcasts, spotify or
(48:51):
wherever you get your podcasts,and on our website,
outoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
You can also check us out onPatreon for exclusive content.
Welcome to Out of the Blue, the podcast Platform
dedicated to celebratinginspirational stories of people
from all walks of life,overcoming life-changing
experiences, who found their wayforward.
I'm your host, vernon West, andmy co-host for today's episode
is my daughter, jackie West, who, along with being our social
(00:43):
media and marketing manager, isalso a professional musician and
Reiki healer.
And I want to especially thankyou, our listeners, for joining
us today and giving us yourprecious time and attention.
We know just how valuable thatis and please remember to smash
that like button and hit thatsubscribe button, because
(01:04):
everything helps to get the wordout there.
This week, on Out of the Blue,the podcast, we're honored to
welcome Ellen O'Brien, born andraised in Revere, massachusetts,
and now based in New York City.
Ellen is a gifted singer and aproud graduate of Berklee
College of Music.
She was living her dream,performing in nightclubs and
building a thriving career untilout of the blue, life took an
(01:27):
unexpected turn.
Ellen's powerful journey ofsurvival and recovery is both
unforgettable and deeplyinspiring.
Today, she is a renowned vocalcoach with students from around
the globe.
Her story is a testament toresilience, transformation and
the power of holding on, becausesometimes the miracle is just
(01:48):
around the corner.
Hi, ellen, and welcome to Outof the Blue the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Hi Vernon, Hi Jackie, how are you today?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So good, yes, very good, grateful to be here.
So what's your?
Let's start it off with whatbrings you to Out of the Blue,
other than you being an old,dear friend of mine.
But we're talking about theactual events that you restarted
this whole journey.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So thank you so much for having me here and I'm so
grateful and honored to be here.
Actually, I've always worked inprofessions.
I'm a singer.
I've been singing in jazz clubssince I was 12 years old and I
have been around people, a lotof people at once.
When I'm singing, when you livein New York have to work a side
(02:42):
job.
So I was always bartending orwaitressing.
So the bars I worked at, thehotels, restaurants, they were
always uber busy and the beautyof that is you keep seeing the
same human behavior over andover again.
And you know, out of the bluehere with me is I could call
(03:04):
everybody else's behavior and Icould see what everybody else
was doing, but I couldn't seemyself.
I couldn't see my own behaviors.
Yeah, my whole life was alwaysabout getting all the externals
and this is a big thing.
You know, when I coach andthat's another thing I never
wanted to teach.
I was always nope, I'm justgoing to sing, I just want to
(03:27):
sing, I want to perform.
Don't what am I even going toteach anybody?
It was so natural for me to dowhat I did and so I just thought
I'd be a horrible teacher.
So the fact that I actuallycoached during the day is funny,
but I at this point could neverimagine my life, so teaching
was out of the blue.
That's.
(03:47):
That's number one.
Um, I did not realize that fordecades now.
When I was younger, I wanted tobe rich and famous and that's
all I knew and I never reallythought about it.
I just wanted to be rich andfamous, um, uh I.
I give metaphors of visuals tomy kids that they can.
It's palpable for them.
(04:08):
So I always say we all havethis little internal bowl.
Think of a little ramekin bowland it can only be filled with
internals by us.
And so there's five internalsthat I tell them Self-love,
self-respect, self-esteem,self-care and self-compassion.
Now, how do I fill that bowl up?
(04:30):
Because that's the nextquestion they always ask me and
I say all right, for instance,there's a boyfriend or there's a
friend that I realize is toxic,I set a healthy boundary.
It could be a family member,even I set a healthy boundary.
Well, when I set a healthyboundary, I just put self-care
into that internal bowl.
(04:51):
And who follows?
Self-care, self-love,self-respect and self-esteem.
So I'm filling my bowl upInstead of beating myself up
when I make a mistake or dosomething wrong.
The person I was before wouldget angry.
I'm so stupid and just beatmyself up when I make a mistake
or do something wrong.
The person I was before wouldget angry.
I'm so stupid and just beatmyself up, and I don't do that
anymore.
(05:11):
I have self-compassion.
So there's my self-care.
You know my self-compassion.
Who follows self-compassion,self-love, self-respect,
self-esteem, and it's self-care.
So every time I do these, youknow whatever I think, whatever
I say, whatever action I take ordecision I make is either going
to add those ingredients in mybowl or deplete it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
This sounds like where you have come.
You are definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
This is your place, I think what to let our audience
hear how you earned this spot,because you definitely didn't
just wake up one day.
Oh no, what what I realized is,all these years I was trying to
fill this internal bowl withexternals.
So this was the second half ofit.
So there's a trap door forexternals.
(05:56):
Again, I'm teaching, you knowyounger people, so I make it
palpable, so they can.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, oh, I get that I get that.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I always say there's a trap door for externals.
So I tried to fill that bowlwith men, money, clothes,
alcohol, weed, sugar, everythingand guess what?
I felt good for a while whileit was going through the bowl,
but as soon as it went throughthe trap door I needed more.
(06:26):
I was walking aroundunconscious for many decades,
not not paying attention to whatwas going on here.
But again, I don't beat myselfup because one of my very good
friends this guy named Jay he'sfrom Rhode Island he said to me
one day you know, we live in aforward moving universe Island.
He said to me one day you know,we live in a forward moving
(06:49):
universe and I was like and hesaid, you know, we can't go back
to yesterday, whatever day itwas it was Tuesday or something.
He's like it's Tuesday, wecan't go back to Monday.
And so I don't beat myself upfor what I didn't know or what I
didn't get.
So, moving forward, the out ofthe blue, the experience that I
had, that really changed a lotfor me.
(07:09):
And again, I've had a lot ofout of the blue experiences over
my lifetime, but the biggestthing was in 2015.
So I chose to move home toBoston back in 2005 to help out
with the family illness, and Istayed there for eight years.
(07:29):
I wasn't doing well, I wasgetting depressed.
I started eating a lot of sugarlike just eating processed
foods and sitting on the couchat night watching TV and I just
basically wanted to numb myselfbecause that that's the, the
tool that I knew so well.
(07:50):
Why was I doing this?
And it's another out of theblue experience, which was, you
know, what I finally came torealize was I was in a lot of
mental pain and I was in a lotof emotional pain and I asked
this of anyone, whether theyhave any addiction issues or
they're a normal person.
What do you do when you have aheadache?
(08:11):
You take something to numb thepain.
You know, I?
I know, unfortunately, youngpeople that have taken their
lives because they just couldn'tbear the mental or emotional
pain they were in.
And if somebody just talked tothem and said, listen, this is
what's going on.
So I'm a big advocate of you,know, I always and I'm glad I'm
(08:36):
saying this right now becauseI've said this to numerous
people.
I've never said it publicly,but I got so aggravated when
people were arguing about whatbooks kids should be reading in
school like Dr Seuss shouldn'tbe allowed or whatever the hell
they were saying and I said,instead of you people arguing
about what books these kidsshould be reading, why don't we
(08:57):
teach them about the computerthat's running, this machine
that navigates them through life, and how to like, take care of
it, what foods to eat to nourishit?
A metaphor I give my kids onceagain, and I love this metaphor.
I say to them think of yourbrain, the organ itself, like
the claw that picks up thestuffed animals at the arcade,
(09:19):
and then your conscious thoughtsor your senses are the lever
that moves the claw.
So the claw is only going tomove in the direction the lever
sends it to.
So if I wake up every morning,like I used to, and have
thoughts like and they can bevery fleeting Sometimes I don't
even realize.
That's why I say I was walkingunconsciously, you know, walking
(09:40):
around this earth unconsciouslyfor so many decades.
So I could have these fleetingthoughts of nobody's ever going
to love me, I'm a piece of crap,I'm never going to amount to be
anything.
I used to have those thoughts.
Well, that's where I moved theclock, you know.
That's the level was going andI was moving the clock and that
became my reality.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So until you made the , you made a choice.
That's what I'm hearing.
You made a choice.
That's what I'm.
You made a choice.
I think the thing that hits meabout this kind of recovery
you're talking about I'vepersonally experienced something
like that myself is that whenyou have that long, hard look at
yourself, you're doing a selfaudit in a way, and you find in
(10:21):
the things that push yourbuttons and you learn about the
triggers in your mind and youtry to alleviate them, maybe
compensate for them or get ridof them through some
understanding.
But ultimately, after you gothrough all that, you're able to
actually see the good things.
You can't get to the goodthings until you get do house,
(10:44):
get at the stuff that you've gotto clean up, but when you do
that, you start seeing thethings that you are, that are
commendable.
That are the things youappreciate seeing in others.
You have them too.
It seems like that's whatyou're coming into now.
You're coming into the wisdomthat is really your right to
have as a human being, and youfound your way to it after
(11:08):
getting through really havingbeen brought to your knees from
the working out of the characterdefects.
I guess, right, that would bewhat it is.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Absolutely and not getting too much into it, but my
out of the blue experience.
I had two major things thathappened that were really a big
show.
Well, three major things.
The first thing was I did, youknow I did get into recovery, so
I'll just say that right hereum and yeah, and I, I literally
have no shame.
You know I always joke about um.
(11:43):
You know, in what I do we don'tsay our last names, but I
always joke that the way I amnow I should be saying my last
name, Cause when I was actinglike an ass in a bar or you know
, doing stupid crap like I usedto do, you know I was like hey,
I'm.
(12:03):
Ellen O'Brien.
I was like yelling my nameeverywhere.
So what happened to me was thebiggest out of the blue
experience was I when I movedhome.
The reason why I moved home wasI.
The front of my brain wassaying I'm going to move home
and help out with this person'sillness.
(12:25):
The back of my head and Ididn't get this until later on,
years later was I still waslooking for the externals.
I physically was sober, but Iwasn't mentally sober or
(12:46):
spiritually sober so to speak.
I did not grow up yet and I wasspiritually weak.
And so at that, it was aseven-year mark and I said and I
didn't say it was in the frontof my brain these are these
fleeting, unconscious,subconscious thoughts that you
don't even realize are happening.
I'm not rich and famous.
I don't have a husband andchild.
(13:08):
God doesn't know what he'sdoing, so I'm going to take over
and I'll pull a geographic.
That's basically it, yep.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yep Taking over for God.
I like that one.
I think we've all done that.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I moved home, I quit my job Within three weeks, I did
this and now I lived in NewYork for 10 years at that time
and everybody was like what areyou doing?
And my sponsor even said to mewhat are you doing?
And I was just like no, this iswhat God wants me to do, you
know, I know.
And she actually said she hadto stop sponsoring me.
(13:40):
She's like I can't watch this.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
And.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I moved home, I did get a sponsor up in boston, but,
um, I still had, you know, andI, I just I keep saying this
recently they only call italcoholism because that was the
major the, the, that was a majordrug at the time, that was the
substance that everybody wasusing to numb this, but the
(14:05):
actual disease itself for me ismy thinking.
And my thinking is mentallypainful.
It's painful, it's very painfulthinking.
It's anxious thinking, it'snegative thinking, it's fearful
thinking.
It's self-centered thinking.
That's very fearful thinking.
It's self-centered thinking,that's very painful thinking.
(14:25):
But again, it's kind of like ifsomebody's gluten intolerant or
lactose intolerant, they don'tknow it.
I mean, a lot of us are eatingfoods we shouldn't be eating
right now, but you'll never know.
So this is how I realized this.
I went to a doctor.
His name's Dr Frank Lipman.
He's realize this.
(14:47):
I went to a doctor.
His name's Dr Frank Lipman.
He's amazing.
A lot of people go to him fromall over the world, actually,
but he's based here in New YorkCity and he's a Western trained
internist, but he is huge withEastern medicine and he's like
we get to the core of the issue.
There's no like take a pill.
He has a bandaid.
Again, I always want to saythis to people I am not a doctor
(15:07):
, and there are people that doneed medication.
For me, though, this, that wasnot the case, okay, so I always
want to say that, because we arenot doctors.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
No, we don't want to dispense any medical advice,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Absolutely so.
I went to Dr Lippman and thiswas back in 2000.
And I just didn't feel good.
I was, I never broke out mylife and I was breaking out.
And he took me into his office.
I'm like what kind of doctor isthis?
There's no, you knowexamination room or anything.
And he just just said give meyour day of eating.
(15:47):
How many cups of coffee do youdrink?
Um, how many hours do you sleepat night?
Do you wake up at night?
And he's just asking me aboutmy life and my daily living.
And I was like what the hell isthat?
You know, because this is backin the day when none of there
was no whole foods, there was nogreen juices I mean, there were
, but people call people thatdid stuff like that Crunchy
(16:09):
granola people, right?
So, um, he said, I'm going toput you on a three week cleanse
no dairy, no sugar, no wheat.
And I did it and my sister andmy friend, jay, to this day,
will say to me that is the bestyou ever looked or felt.
And so long fast forward.
(16:34):
I went back to him around 2016,2015.
And this time he took me off um, no processed foods, no sugar,
sugar, um, so like bread madewith you know anything that was
processed and no dairy.
So one day it was about threeweeks later I was downtown in
the village and, um, I waseating at this uh restaurant and
(16:56):
I ordered some pasta that had acream base in it.
I got a sick stomach and myankle swelled up so fast.
So why I'm saying this is a lotof us are walking around sick,
but we don't realize it untilit's taken out of our system.
(17:16):
There was a woman that told meduring COVID she started
drinking like a half a bottle toa bottle of wine every night.
A lot of people did, andbecause there's nothing left to
you know nothing else to do, sopeople would drink wine and um,
or whatever.
And this one woman said I wasdrinking a half a bottle to a
bottle of wine and after twomonths I realized I'm gaining
(17:37):
weight, I feel sluggish, and soI just stopped.
And I said and there's, thephysical part of that disease,
of addiction, is, everyone hasan on switch.
Everybody can take a bite of acookie, have a sip of wine,
whatever, but an addict or analcoholic doesn't have an off
switch.
So when people say to peoplewell, what about your willpower.
(17:58):
Well, willpower is great, butif there's no off switch, no,
willpower can't do anything.
If there's no off switch, right.
So that's the physical part.
So again, the mental part,again, that I wasn't aware of,
was I was in mental pain andemotional pain and I didn't know
(18:19):
better.
So I was just grabbing atanything that would numb me, and
it was sugar and it was alcohol, and it was just trying to
focus my brain on something thatwould make me feel okay and
comfortable.
Going back to the substances,for years I woke up with a
(18:40):
headache.
For years I woke up with somuch mucus in my vocal cords and
in my nose I thought this wasnormal.
I just thought this is, this isI'm, I'm healthy, this is how
it works.
And then, when I stoppedputting all substances,
including sugar, in my body, Icleared up.
(19:02):
I have like no phlegm.
You know I have regular amountof mucus, but you know I have a
clear voice.
I don't wake up with adehydrated brain because I drank
so much alcohol and dehydratedmyself and I feel like
somebody's putting a jackhammeron my head.
I don't wake up like thatanymore.
But I would have never knownthat I had this illness or this
(19:26):
sickness if I didn't take it outof my system for a while.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, you know, it seems like to me just to
remember about out of the blue,that the out of the blue things
that have happened.
So you go from that point intime where you're managing the
input of the physical, the stuffthat you said has a trap door,
and as you're managing that, yougo through your life, you're
managing the physical intake ofthings you think are going to
(19:52):
make you, promote happiness,make you feel better, but then,
as you start to wake up to thefact that this is the wrong way,
this isn't happening and youstill keep trying because you
know that's what we do, that'sour tendency, as if you're an
addict or an addicted personeven just some normal people
like that you just think you'vegot to keep trying again.
May well get it right, but youdon't get it right.
(20:14):
But, out of the blue, thingsare directing you, things are
telling you oh, absolutely, whatis it?
That's what I'm saying.
The mystery of it all is that,from out of the blue, this
benevolent influence on our lifestarts to manifest and you made
a choice to listen to it.
That's the thing that I think isthe takeaway that I think
(20:36):
anyone listening should knowthis that you can have these
things that Ellen's talkingabout, but when you make a
choice to say you know there's abetter way, there's people that
found a way through this, finda way forward, then you take the
, you follow those leadings andthat's what look at you.
You will follow those leadings.
That would happen in 2015.
(20:57):
And here we are 10 years later.
The journey of getting there iswhat's interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Exactly and before 2015,.
What happened?
So, when I moved home to Boston, like I said, I still was going
to meetings and I had a sponsor, but, again, I didn't grow up
emotionally and I wasn'tspiritually fit, but I was
physically sober.
So that I always want to make apoint of saying that, because
(21:24):
there's a lot of people that arephysically sober, right, but we
keep forgetting that the symbolis a triangle, because it's
mental, spiritual and physical.
And so what I was doing was Iwas making unsober decisions,
going out with people that Ishouldn't have been going out
with.
My old behavior and mentalthought process was still strong
(21:46):
.
What did I do?
I had a herniated disc and theygave me muscle relaxers that
now are classified as D.
10 years later, they classifiedit, but, you know, I started
taking these muscle relaxers andthen, the next thing I know, I
picked up a glass of wine, whichprobably saved my life because
(22:08):
I stopped taking the musclerelaxers.
But again, a rose is a rose byany name.
A substance is a substance is asubstance.
You know it's like what's yourtrigger?
You'll never catch meovereating celery sticks, but if
you put a thing of Hershey'sKisses in front of me, I'll cut
your hand off if you go for oneof them, you know.
(22:29):
So I just had to learn what mytriggers were.
So, long story short, I'mmaking all these bad decisions
and I am mentally andemotionally in pain and I pick
up.
But again, I'm not drinking asmuch, but I started eating and
the funny story is I waswatching Top Chef and the
(22:50):
hostess, pat Malashky.
She's gorgeous, she's tall,she's thin, she's beautiful, and
you see them trying the foodand they're sitting and they
have the glass of red wine.
And I would sit there and Ijust said there was just one
point that I felt like I was ona fence, like I loved all the
principles, I loved all thesolutions, um, but I just didn't
(23:13):
feel like I belong thereanymore.
And then I'm watching peoplelike her and you know, when I'd
be out singing, I would see youknow people with their boyfriend
having a glass of wine.
And I was like you know, I justwant to be a normal person
again and be able to be thatperson that sits with their
boyfriend and has a glass ofwine and a nice dinner or
(23:33):
whatever.
And so I did.
But again, here's the mentalinsanity.
I would go to Trader Joe's inKenmore Square.
I'd get their finest bottle ofred wine.
I'd get their finest bottle ofred wine.
(23:55):
I'd buy a block of brie cheese.
French bread, um, like abaguette.
Um, you know, I thought that ifI and here's the the insanity
you know I used to eat Hershey'sbars and Skittles and stuff
like that.
So I was like, no, if I spendmoney and I get like a, um, you
know, go to a fancy bakery andget like a piece of lemon
meringue pie or you know a youknow $20 bar of chocolate,
(24:16):
that's much better for me.
And so I was in Winthrop, in myapartment watching TV that's
where I was living at the timeand I would just sit, and, you
know, watch TV, drinking my redwine, eating all this stuff.
For like two, three hours Nowwas I sitting there with 20 Big
Macs, like you see on TLC, onsome of those shows.
(24:38):
No, sometimes it was justthroughout the day.
Oh, I had eggs for breakfast,so it's 1030.
I'll have a croissant.
Oh, it's 12.
So I'll have like a salad withsome salmon on it.
You know what?
I had a salad with some salmon,so I'm going to have some
chocolate.
It's dinner time.
So again, I was negotiating andand being my own pharmacist
(25:01):
with food, and so pharmacistFARM pharmacist F-A-R-M
pharmacist Pharmacist.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
I have an observation Even though the
uncomfortability of negotiatingis there, what I've observed in
my own experience with thesekinds of things is that that's
also you inching your way out ofit, because you're starting to
(25:28):
become conscious of choosingsomething, even if it is, wow,
choosing, you know, to do thesame kind of space, um, what,
what did you call it like?
Like the to fill the space,kind of the internal bowl.
Yeah, the internal bowl, um withwith a trap door entity, you're
(25:53):
you're becoming more practicedwith how and who enters.
You know that's amazing yeah,like taking your way out.
I think there is something tobe said about it's so, so hard
to come out of addiction.
You know cause you're, it's allyou're.
You're feeling really out ofcontrol, yeah, and I think, I
(26:19):
think there is there's a lotwith inching your way out.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
And and Jackie, to your point and go back to
Vernon's point earlier.
That's an out of the blue thing, because what he said is
there's like this, this force,this you know you can't see it,
they you know what.
What is quantum theory?
It's the study of this energythat is not seen and you can't
feel it, but it is there.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I just want to one observation throughout this.
When you started talking aboutthe inner bowls, the first thing
that popped in my mind was thisold saying by a French
philosopher, pascal, and I'mgoing to summarize it, but it's
a lot longer and a lot morewordy.
He basically says and I'm goingto change the inside, everyone
(27:03):
is a God-shaped void.
And what he says is really inthis case, we're going to say
inside, everyone is a God shapedbowl, and the only thing that
can fill it is that spiritualthings, spiritual things, fill
it.
Anything else goes right outthe bottom.
We'll not fill that void.
So we have to, in our lives,find a way to fill that void
(27:25):
with things that are spiritual,that are infinite, that are
spiritual that are infinite,that are, yeah, absolutely great
, so powerful you knowabsolutely so.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
To your point, though , about the electricity and the
what you were saying, vernon,it's like there's something that
was guiding.
I just again was guiding youinto that place, right?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
and I was conscious to it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
But if you think of electricity, and I always say
this, you know people will saywell, there, there is no I, I
don't feel god, I don't but theyou don't feel electricity, but
it's there.
All you have to do is plug thelight in.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Oh yeah, like on I might also add that I have an
electrical charge as human.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Everything in the universe is electric.
Everything in the universe isenergy.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I mean, yeah, I mean you can say the universe,
God, higher power.
You can also say you wereliving in your thoughts and what
actually informed you was yourheart area, your body.
Your body has wisdom andtelling you and if you can, if
(28:36):
you can tune in and often tuninginto your body is a wordless
place- it's just breath, and Imean as singers that's, we care
a lot about breath and how, howto encourage expression through
it.
And absolutely yeah, I mean, Ijust see that a lot of the, the
(29:02):
disconnect happens from a, froma literal disconnect of brain
and body.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Absolutely Well, you know it's funny.
You're saying this is my bodyand getting to.
What happened to me is I'msitting in this on this couch
eating every night and I didn'teven see it happening, but I
gained 130 pounds.
I gained an entire person.
I was somebody that used to runCentral Park six miles every
(29:29):
day.
I taught fitness classes, I waseating so healthy and next
thing I know I'm sitting on acouch eating and drinking myself
130 pounds heavier, Like I wasnever that heavy in my life and
I had that, as Vernon talkedabout before that second moment
of clarity.
Not many people get that, youknow, and I'm one of the
(29:49):
grateful ones that I got thatbecause there is a funeral that
could happen.
I've been to many funerals thatthe people that didn't get it
the second time, and so when Iget a second chance, right when
you get a second chanceabsolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
What is so unbelievable thing, that is so
great?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
When the doctor said to me listen, this is how much
you weigh and your blood sugaris this, and if you don't get a
grip off yourself, you're goingto be pre-diabetic, and then
there's no turning back.
At that moment I walked out ofher office and I said God, and
before I moved home to Boston, II had a savings, I had a job
(30:29):
where I had a 401k and um,health and medical, I had
everything.
And at this point, again, eightyears, uh, what was it?
Uh, 2005.
So it was 2012.
So seven years later, I did notsee how fast my life went down.
I walked out the door and Iwent God, I don't know how we're
(30:50):
going to do this, but thehappiest and healthiest I was
was when I was in New York,because this is where I got
sober originally in 1996.
And I said I don't know howyou're going to make this happen
, but I need to go back to NewYork.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I like the way you say you don't know how you're
going to make this, this happen,because that's how you got to
be.
When you're talking to thehigher power, you kind of have
to say that.
You kind of got to admit youare the power, that's the power,
so we just got to do the rightthing.
And I think you're followingthat gut feeling, following that
, going to New York.
I think that was following thatimpulse from out of the blue.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, are you ready for the out of the blue?
I think it was the very nextweek, it might've been two weeks
later I get a phone call from amusician who I used to work
with and he said I'm gettingmarried Labor Day weekend.
I'm putting my dream bandtogether and I want you as the
lead singer.
So he said I'm going to pay youand I drove down.
It was Labor Day weekend, 2012.
(31:51):
And I didn't go to any meetings, but when I was here, I was
like I need to come back.
I went back to Winthrop withinthree weeks I had a and again,
I'm not sober yet, so I'm notreally thinking three things
through.
But I went back home and I hadan apartment sale and basically
(32:11):
sold everything I owned exceptmy dog and my car.
I showed up on October 1st 2012,about 30 pounds heavier than I
used to be.
No job, no credit.
A friend, let me sleep on asleep sofa.
For a month and a half he usedto be in the program as well and
(32:37):
he wasn't.
And the funny thing is, Istarted to see his behavior and
I went oh my God, I need to goto a meeting.
I don't know what it was aboutit.
But it was like frenetic energyand I was like I need to get to
a meeting and I walked into ameeting where everyone knew me,
(32:57):
where they thought I had 17years, and I raised my hand and
I said I had one day andliterally everybody had whiplash
because I was that girl.
That was the AA.
You know, I was the posterchild, sponsored people, I had a
sponsor.
I chaired meetings.
I was at every.
I went to meetings seven days aweek.
(33:18):
I was the last person youthought would go out.
And again I almost went outbecause I'm sitting and I I'm
not listening to thesimilarities, I'm comparing and
I'm not listening to thesimilarities.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I'm comparing and I'm not identifying.
Correct, right.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I was never arrested, I never had to go to rehab See,
I'm not that bad Right and Ialmost went out and it was
January 2013.
And I had two months and thisbeautiful woman got up and she
shared and she had four kids.
And she said you know, I'vebeen in and out of this program
seven different times, but ittook me those many times to
(33:56):
finally realize that sobrietywasn't about my drinking, it was
about my thinking.
And all of a sudden, I went, I,I I've probably heard it a
million times, but at thatmoment and I went.
You mean, I don't have to have apissing contest with everybody
(34:17):
of who was worse than who, likethis is.
This doesn't think right.
This always thinks anxietyfilled things.
This always projects negativity.
This is always thinkingnegative.
This is always saying negativethings.
And so when I heard that thatchanged, that was an out of the
blue moment and yep, and so Ikept on my journey.
(34:38):
But then here I was, sevenyears later, like the seven year
itch of marriage, the sevenyear itch of recovery, and it
was almost COVID.
It was November.
I was hardly going to meetingsagain.
I started going to my doctors,going oh, I think I need Xanax
because I get very, I have a lotof anxiety and you know, and
(35:06):
I've done this many times before, where I just don't do the work
and I feel bad again.
And now I'm looking for the easyway out.
I'm looking for that bandaidagain, that quick fix that you
know, that external and theinternal bowl, so I can feel
better, get that inner peacethat eluded me for all these
years.
And the best thing and I to me,because now I'm in this
apartment, I have nowhere to goand we have Zoom meetings and
(35:38):
I'm on a meeting one night andthere was a guy from LA who was
in Bali at the time and he wasqualifying and he said I had 10
years, he was a famous DJ, hehad the job, he had the money, a
beautiful girlfriend, he hadall the externals.
And he said and I wanted tocommit suicide, I wanted to kill
myself, I was miserable.
And he shared about it in ameeting and some old timer
(36:01):
walked up to him and said I'mgoing to take you through the
big book the way it wasoriginally intended.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Just for those who don't know, the big book is the
Alcoholics Anonymous book.
It's the big blue book of thewhole program.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And basically all it is.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's referred to as the big book.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
But go ahead, right.
But all it is is it's theblueprint, it's the manual of
the first hundred people.
That's what the big book is.
It's the first hundred andsixty-four pages.
They said we finally figuredout not only how to survive from
this disease, but to thrive.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
What did they actually say?
They said it's a spiritual cure.
That's the way you can, theonly solution to the alcohol
addiction, and, matter of fact,I think that would cover just
about every kind of addiction.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It covers every human ailment.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And let me just say the way I, because again, the
only healing of filling thatbowl is the spiritual healing.
That's the only way.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
But I just want to say this because I have a lot of
friends that are Muslim andJewish and Christian and
Catholic and atheists andagnostics.
So I'm going to say thisbecause this is how I describe
spirituality.
Spirituality, is it found inreligions?
Absolutely, but is spiritualityreligion?
No, what spirituality for me isis it's how we navigate
(37:27):
relationships and lifesituations.
Do we come from a place of fear, ego and false pride, or do we
come from a place of love,integrity and humility?
So I'd always came from a placeof fear, ego and false pride in
all my relationships and alllife situations.
I now work every day,throughout my day, and getting
(37:51):
back to that, you know what doyou do throughout the day?
I into.
I have into woven everythingthat I've been taught into my
entire day.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
So fabric of your life.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's the fabric of my life.
So I I literally walk aroundthroughout the day and at
different points of the day,because, again, I started
studying how the brain works andyou have to exercise it.
You have it's not.
It's not a muscle, but you dohave to exercise it like it is a
muscle.
And how do you exercise it?
You give it an order.
(38:25):
And so throughout the day Iwill walk around and I just will
say, at random times I comefrom a place of love and
integrity.
I come from a place of love andintegrity.
I come from a place of love andintegrity.
The more I say that, thatbecomes my reality.
So the one thing about the brainthat people don't, you know,
might not know, is you have yourconscious side and you have
(38:45):
your subconscious side.
So your brain is a computer,it's a binary computer is a
computer, it's a binary computer.
But how I describe this?
Once again, when I teach kidsor whoever, what I say to them
is this is what you have toremember.
You have your conscious sidethat you have to give an order
to.
If you don't give it an order,you've got a best friend, You've
(39:09):
got your security guard calledthe amygdala.
Now the brain's primary purposebefore thinking is to make sure
that this machine it's runningstays alive and safe.
So here's your little thing.
If you don't give it an order,he's over here going.
Oh crap, she doesn't have aplan.
I need to jump in and take overNow.
(39:29):
The amygdala is never lookingat the rainbows and butterflies,
it's only going to look at thethings that are going to harm
you.
There's your negative andanxious thinking.
So here's my little, and Jackiewill appreciate this.
He is standing at a trainplatform in Manhattan.
Now, over the loud speakerbecause sometimes it's not clear
, but over the loud speakerclearly says please let them off
(39:53):
the train before you get on thetrain.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I really wish that they did that.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Two seconds later, a train pulls up, the doors open
and people are jamming onto thetrain before anybody gets off.
So I used to sit at the 59thstreet station waiting for the
end of the yard to go to thetime square when I used to work
down there and I would just go.
Are these people stupid?
I wanted to write a book calledAre you that Stupid or you Just
(40:17):
Don't Care, because I thoughtthere were only two reasons why
you would do something soobviously insane like that.
Well, I again started studyinga little layman of the brain and
what I realized was it wasn'tthat they were stupid or they
didn't care.
There was no conscious thought,the order being given to the
(40:38):
conscious part of the brain.
You're going to be okay, you'regoing to get on the train If
you let them off first, you'regoing to get on quicker.
Everything's fine, you're good.
If I'm not relaxing him orgiving him an order, he's over
here going crap.
If you don't get on the train,you're not.
If I'm not relaxing him orgiving him an order, he's over
here going crap.
If you don't get on the train,you're not going to get to work
on time.
If you get fired, then youcan't put food on the table for
(41:01):
the family.
That's life and death for thatperson.
That is a fight or flight forthat person, not getting fired.
So the beauty of the, the notthe beauty.
But the funny thing about theamygdala it doesn't know the
difference between physical harmand social harm.
So that was a big thing for me.
(41:21):
So a big part of going back tomy daily stuff is being very
mindful.
I also take Buddhist meditationclass every Saturday morning.
I'm in my seventh year.
A great form of meditation forany age group is just saying to
(41:42):
your brain and you can say itout loud if you live alone, or
say it to yourself if there'speople around I'm walking to the
bathroom, I'm making a cup ofcoffee.
Just say what you're doing,just acknowledge.
Say to your brain I am washingthe dishes.
Right now I am on a Zoom callwith Vernon and Jackie.
What that does is it keeps mein the present moment.
(42:04):
So, going back to this guy thatdid the big book with me and he
made me write this paragraphdown and then he made me say it
and when I read it out loud Iwent oh my God, this was me my
entire life.
And again, whether you haveaddiction or you don't.
I know a lot of people thatwhen I say this paragraph, to
(42:25):
them, they go.
Oh, my God, that's me, in myself centered way.
I think the most importantthing is the way I feel.
I want people, places andsituations to change so I can
feel better.
I will go to any lengths tomake things become what I want
them to become so I can feelbetter.
And there I was trapped,waiting for all these things to
(42:48):
change so I could feel better.
Therefore, my suffering was ofmy own making.
The good news is, I can behealed or helped, and people,
places and things don't have tochange for me to feel better.
So when I heard that, I justwent.
That is literally what I tried,and there was my mental pain
(43:10):
and my emotional pain.
I kept trying to change myexternals so I could have
internal peace.
But when you are thinking thatthose external things are going
to give you in a piece and andfill that bowl, that there's
where we all get in trouble.
So I never have an issue.
I, I'm not one of those that,oh, money's evil and things are
(43:32):
evil.
No, what I will say is we livein a society that makes money
off of us thinking we needsomething to make us feel
happier or feel included.
And so we have what I like torefer to as the hollow chocolate
(43:54):
Easter bunny.
So you know, at Easter time wehave two different bunnies we
have a hollow Easter bunny and asolid chocolate Easter bunny.
And a lot of us have grown upbeing trained to just focus on
the externals and none of us didthe internal work.
So we look good on the outsidebut there's nothing inside.
(44:22):
We're a hollow Easter bunny,and so the work that I finally
realized that I had to do wasall internal and I'm now a solid
chocolate Easter bunny.
And the last thing I'll say isthe reason why affirmations
don't work when a lot of peopledo them consciously during the
day is because you forget thatthere's this subconscious part
of us that the door is only openat night, when right before we
(44:43):
go to sleep, while we'resleeping or when we wake up
stuff.
Like you know, I have a strong,healthy, beautiful body.
I love fruits and vegetables.
I'm a successful singer,songwriter and voice coach.
Even though I was consciouslyduring the day saying it, I
didn't realize that all thoseold tapes, what I said to myself
(45:04):
, what other people said to mewhen I was younger, they were
still in the subconscious partof me.
So I started listening toaffirmations right before sleep.
Or if I don't listen at night,I wake up in the morning and I
listen to it right at themorning.
That's when it gets into yoursubconscious, that's when the
doors open.
Jason Stevenson he's got thisbeautiful Australian accent and
(45:25):
beautiful music.
Love listening to him.
Louise Hay is the OG ofaffirmations and self-help and
gratitude.
Gratitude is an abundancemagnet.
And how do I practice gratitude?
I take a hot shower in themorning.
Thank you God for hot water,because most people don't have
that luxury.
(45:46):
I'm drinking clean water.
Thank you God for clean water.
Most people on this earth don'thave that luxury.
I walked down the streets ofNew York this shit on the
streets and this is a big thingthat I think everybody needs to
hear too.
My life isn't, you know, I'm notlike everything's going great
every day, but the point is andthat's the spiritual heavy, you
(46:07):
know, that's the heavy trainingis everybody can be grateful
when things are going well, whenI'm sobbing in grief cause I
just lost, you know, someoneimportant in my life, and I'm
literally sobbing my eyes out tosay to myself find one thing
that you're grateful for rightnow, and to be able to say thank
(46:31):
you, God, for allowing thatsoul to be in my life, for that
those that time.
So my stuff is practical and Ido it throughout the day, and
the more you do it, the strongerit gets.
So for those of and I'll justsay this, sorry for those of you
that are having a hard time andsay I can't stop thinking the
way I think and yeah, it's hardat first because those spiritual
(46:54):
muscles are weak, thoseemotionally mature muscles are
weak.
That's why you have to justkeep showing up consistency and
tenacity.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Keep showing up that.
That is the thing I would say.
The biggest takeaway here is atthe end.
Here is gratitude, and I'mgoing to say, ellen, you are a
poster child for not for so manythings.
One of them is definitely forout of the blue gratitude,
because your whole life has beenone long test, really, and
(47:24):
growth experience, and it seemslike the thread that connects it
all is that gratitude that hasled you to this place in your
life.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Well, Vernon and Jackie, I am grateful for you
today and just to spend timewith you.
You both have beautiful energyand you're doing so good for the
world yourselves and it's likethat's why we go through those
hard times.
It's not because we're gettingpunished, it's to make us
stronger.
It's kind of like we get thislight and we pass the torch to
the person behind us and helpthem see that there is a way.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
There is a way.
That's right there.
That's the place.
Help them see there is a way.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Out of the Blue.
I'm Vernon West, this is JackieWest and, of course, the
inimitable honored to have her,ellen O'Brien.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Thank you from Out of the blueand I hope to see you next time
on out of the blue, the podcastout of the blue, the podcast
(48:27):
hosted by me, vernon west,co-hosted by j Vernon West,
co-hosted by Jacqueline West,edited by Joe Gallo Music and
logo by Vernon West III.
Have an Out of the Blue storyof your own you'd like to share?
Reach us at info atoutoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
Subscribe to Out of the Blue onApple Podcasts, spotify or
(48:51):
wherever you get your podcasts,and on our website,
outoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
You can also check us out onPatreon for exclusive content.
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