September 3, 2025 • 55 mins
Joseph Bonanno was minutes away from death the morning of September 11, 2001. As a New York City firefighter and cookbook author, he had just wrapped up filming a segment for television at Ladder 3 in Manhattan when fate intervened—a car service arrived early to take him home. The firefighters he'd just been with immediately responded to the World Trade Center attacks. None survived.
That brush with mortality transformed Bonanno's life forever. A second-generation firefighter who followed his father's footsteps, Joe had already found unexpected success as an author after being discovered in a casual writing class. But 9/11 reshaped his understanding of purpose and pain in ways no one could anticipate. With heartbreaking candor, he recounts not only the horrors of Ground Zero but also the profound grief of losing his brother, also a firefighter, to suicide years later.
What emerges is a powerful testament to resilience and the healing power of service. Today, Bonanno uses his experiences to counsel fellow first responders dealing with PTSD and suicidal thoughts. His insights into recognizing warning signs—particularly when someone loses their sense of humor—provide vital guidance for supporting those in crisis.
"We're all going to leave this life sooner or later anyway," Bonanno reflects. "What's the rush?" This simple yet profound philosophy encapsulates his approach to both personal healing and helping others find their way through darkness.
American Firehouse Cuisine: https://americanfirehousecuisine.com
Firefighter Behavioral Health Alliance: https://www.ffbha.org
Out Of The Blue:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back to Out of the Blue, the podcast, where
real people share real storiesof resilience, transformation
and the human spirit risingthrough adversity.
I'm your host, vernon West,joined by my daughter and
co-host, jackie West, our socialmedia and marketing manager, a
professional musician and aReiki healer.
Our guest today has lived alife of service, courage and
(00:46):
heart.
Joseph Bonanno is a US AirForce veteran and a retired New
York City firefighter who'sserved 21 years, including his
work in the rescue and recoveryefforts at Ground Zero after
9-11.
But Joe's story doesn't stopthere.
He's also an academy-trainedchef, a three-time cookbook
(01:07):
author, a certified fitnesstrainer and nutritionist, and
most recently certified by theIAFF and PTSD counseling, using
his own experience to helpfellow first responders heal
(01:27):
wanders heal.
When he's not speaking, cookingor training, you can find him
volunteering at a children'sburn camp, giving back in yet
another powerful way.
With a career that bridgesbravery, creativity and
compassion, joseph Bonanno isliving proof that service to
others takes many forms.
Joe, welcome to Out of the Blue, the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh, thank you, Vernon , and thank you Jackie too.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
It's quite an introduction.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
It's quite an introduction.
A lot to live up to.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
You earned it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
That's all your stuff you earned that, thank you,
thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And that's a big deal .
You know that is a big deal,all those things.
So where can we start?
Usually, where we start is thebeginning.
When was 34 year, veteran ofthe New York city fire
department and worked in?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
the South Bronx and engine 88 through the what they
call in New York city.
The war years, through thesixties and seventies, when the
Bronx was burning and New Yorkwas, you know, really had one of
the highest response rates inthe entire world at that time.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So he didn't.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I wouldn't say he forced me to the fire service,
but and I was.
You know, there's two types ofteenagers or kids when they're
growing up One they want toemulate their father and one
they want to.
I'm not going to do what youdid.
I'm better than you.
I'm going to be a.
Well, I was the arrogant pain inthe neck teenager who didn't
want to do what he did for aliving and I remember at the
(03:06):
time he said to me all right,listen, you don't have to take
the job, but don't be stupid.
At least take the test.
And when they call you, if youdon't want to take it, you don't
take it.
So I was just getting out ofcollege at the time and I was
going on a few job interviewsand the job interviews I was
going on I just I know it justdidn't seem appealing to me and
I do.
(03:26):
One thing I do remember is myfather, growing up, would take
me to these firehouse parties,christmas party, summer parties
at the park or something likethat.
And I just remember all thefirefighters were all
ecstatically happy individuals,you know, and apparently loved
their jobs, and the businessjobs that I was going to look at
didn't appear that the peoplereally liked their jobs, so I
(03:49):
took the test.
I scored pretty well.
I think at the time I took it,40,000 people took the test for
the New York City FireDepartment, so my list number
was 1,124.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That's pretty up there.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, it was up there .
Yeah.
So a fellow that I met at thetraining academy when we were
training for the test.
He wanted to be a firefightersince he was a little kid and he
knew everything about it andalthough my father was in the
fire department he never reallyspoke about it at home.
I didn't even know that theyate meals.
You know, as far as I knew hewent to work.
He came home smelling likesmoke but he really didn't bring
(04:21):
the job home with him.
He never really talked about it.
The danger, the food, the fun,nothing.
He really kept it to himself.
He would talk about differentfirefighters he worked with and
stuff, normal gossip, but reallydidn't talk about the job that
much.
I guess he wanted me to findout on my own.
But the guys that I wastraining with were all just like
my father's friends funny,comical, great guys, real salted
(04:43):
air type.
So I says you know what my listnumber?
Come on, I'm going to take it.
So I took it.
I got assigned to Engine 319,which is a small firehouse in
Queens.
Great again, great individualsto work with.
But these are firefights thathad done their time already and
they were in like a slower typeof firehouse and, of course,
when you're young you want to bein a busy place and so I
(05:04):
transferred to Ladder 129.
And no disrespect for thoseguys.
They did their time in theBronx and Brooklyn and busy
firehouses and now they justwanted to stay in a nicer area
and maybe not as many responses.
Leave that for the youngergeneration, which I was.
So I transferred to Ladder 129.
Was one of the best decisions Iever made.
Great guys, we had all new guysthere and it just double house.
(05:25):
You have twice as manycharacters and just everything.
The meals were bigger, justeverything about it.
How many people in that houseOn shift?
There's 11.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So that's considered a big amount of people to cook
for.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
And you know I'll be the firstone to admit and I'm sure if any
firefighters that I work withare listening I wasn't a
notoriously wonderful firehousechef or anything like that.
It's just that when I got on Irealized the importance of
keeping in good physicalcondition.
I went and got certified as afitness trainer and I would see
(05:59):
guys with a 50 inch waist whohad, you know, 45 years.
You know, 45 years old, 50years old.
You know the job is a physicaljob.
So I always wanted to stay inin great shape and I said, boy,
if I keep eating meals like this, you know they used to say
you're going to be a big man onthis job someday.
Cause I had a big appetite andI said, well, not if I eat
(06:20):
soundly.
You know, grilled chicken,brown rice, nothing more.
But you know the old schoolfirefighters are more like meat
and potatoes type.
Sure, and you don't have toexercise because you get enough
work running into burningbuildings.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, when you run up the slatter man, that's
exercise, right.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It is, but you're not doing it often enough and with
enough regularity to constitutefitness.
You know what I mean.
So I jumped in once in a whileand prepared a few meals, trying
to make them a little healthy.
I mean, perfect example is andI use this story all the time is
I was making one of thefirefighters excellent cooks, by
the way, they were that I haveto give them that.
But you know they were makingmashed potatoes and the one guy
is peeling sticks of butter likethey were bananas and throwing
(07:03):
the sticks of butter and youknow, four sticks of butter for
mashed potatoes for six or eightpeople.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I bet you they were awesome.
Mashed potatoes Well they were.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But you know I learned different techniques
taking cooking classes, how youcould make like roasted garlic
which isn't going to add any fator cholesterol to the meal.
So I was able to prepare a fewmeals here and there that were
healthy and delicious.
And again, I won't.
I'll be the first one to say Ididn't have any kind of
reputation at it.
But in 1984, a New Yorkfirefighter assigned to Engine
(07:34):
58, john Sinino, passed away.
God rest his soul.
Wonderful firefighter wrote thefirefighter's cookbook and he
did a.
It was a small paperback, nopictures paperback thing and he
did it kind of like just on alock because he was a halfway
decent firehouse cook.
And they said hey, john, throwa few recipes together, we'll
(07:54):
put some of our recipes together.
So he did it unbeknownst to him.
He the the first uh printingwas only 5 000 copies because he
figured, yeah, it's just goingto be fireman buying it and a
few other people.
Well anyway, phil Donahue, Idon't know if you remember him.
I do, of course.
Yeah, he had a talk show.
He was in Chicago, he wasmoving his studio to New York.
(08:15):
He asked his producers how canI warm up to the New York
audience?
Give me some ideas.
So his producers said you knowwhat?
We always give me some ideas.
So his producer said you knowwhat?
We always see firefighters inthe store making food and new
york new yorkers love theirfirefighters love them.
And he says well, a new yorkfireman, jackie, just wrote a
little cookbook, maybe we'llhave him on as a guest.
So he had him on as a guest hisfirst episode in new york.
(08:37):
So john was not a tvpersonality, neither am I, and
he was so busy talking to phildonahue about the book that the
chicken started burning that hewas making on stage and it made
for a great comedy thing.
Like phil donahue interruptedme, he goes you know I love
hearing stories about the fireservice, but you know you may
have to call the other speakingof fire.
(08:58):
Speaking of fire, your chickencutlets are burning.
So he had to come here russianon.
So the term now is it wentviral.
That wasn't the terminologythen.
But because of that episode hiscookbook went on the New York
Times bestseller list Cool, andit was there for nine weeks in a
row.
Wow, Fast forward for me.
I had no intentions of writinga cookbook, but the new school
(09:21):
in Manhattan was offering acourse called how to write a
cookbook and get it published.
So I says you know what I'm inbetween shifts.
It was like a Friday night andSaturday night.
I didn't want to drive all theway back out to Long Island.
I said you know what, take acourse from Manhattan, kill my
day tour and then I'll go backand work that night, never
(09:45):
expecting.
So I take the class.
The teacher says you know, wewant to go around the room and
everybody and it was like 75people, class was sold out, 75
people.
And because it's new york,everybody was trying to get
noticed, except me, right, likeall the other people were there
with stacks of recipes.
Oh my god, look at the peopleI'm surrounded by.
I don't even have an idea or arecipe with me.
So the teacher goes around theroom and says you know, uh, just
put it out there, your idea fora cookbook.
So I said Joe, quick, thinkquick.
(10:07):
So they're getting to me one byone.
People are name dropping.
Because it's New York, you knowall chef at the culinary
Institute.
I was Robert De Niro's personalchef, blah, blah, blah, all
this stuff.
And I'm like, oh my God, allright.
So they get to me.
I had just gotten certified asa fitness trainer.
So I had that in my resume.
So I said, listen, I was a NewYork City firefighter at that
(10:28):
time for 15 years, right, and Isaid I just got certified as a
fitness trainer and anutritionist.
And firefighters are known forgood cooks but a lot of times
they health-related issues totheir cooking.
And there was a successful bookin 84.
So I said if I was going to doa cookbook, it would be a
healthy cookbook.
(10:49):
Well, the teacher says you knowwhat I'd mentioned, that this
afternoon we have an editorcoming in.
I'm like, oh my God, now heputs me on the spot.
So in the afternoon an editorcame in and she was like a drill
sergeant.
She was like, all right, yougot to get a query letter
together.
To put a thing, you have tohave 10 tested recipes.
I'm like I don't even have onetested recipe yet.
(11:12):
So the teacher she says I'mopening the floor for five
minutes, everybody's hand shotup but mine and again their name
dropping.
Now she's an editor, so she canactually get their book
published.
And they're saying, oh, youknow, I was a chef in Sweden.
She goes listen, it was fiveSwedish cookbooks last year, 10
the year before next, and shewas dismissing people like that
and I'm like I'm not even, I'msinking in my seat, I'm not even
(11:33):
going to mention my idea.
So then the teacher, the classis ending.
He says thank you everybody forcoming.
For instance, joe, would youstand up and say your idea Like,
oh my God.
So I stand up and I go listen,I'm a New York city firefighter.
There was a successful book.
It was on the bestseller list,but I just got certified as a
(11:53):
fitness trainer.
I would do a healthy book.
She goes that is a fabulousidea, would you?
Would you stay after class andtalk to me?
Whoa, 75 people in the classare ready to kill me because
they went to get noticed and Ididn't want to get noticed.
And I'll never forget theconversation because she says hi
, my name's Harriet Bell.
I'm the head editor for HearstPublishing in New York.
(12:14):
Do you have an agent?
I said Harriet agent, I'm afirefighter.
You know it's hoses, axes, redtrucks.
I don't have an agent.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
She goes well that, that's how it works.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
We'll get you an agent monday morning and she'll
walk you through the process, soit was almost like it was a
done deal that's a that's rightout of the blue and it's
beautiful out of the.
Yeah, it was out of the blue.
Good, yes, yeah those are.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh, there were plenty .
There were plenty of good outof the blues.
Yeah, this was one of them.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
This was one of them and I'll never forget going back
to the firehouse to work mynight tour saying God, you're
not going to believe it.
I was in this, get out of here.
You can't even make a fried egg.
You're going to be writing anational cookbook.
You know, of course,firefighter mentality and humor.
You know they started unloadingon me.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I go, you've got to be kidding.
I.
I talked to the agent Mondaymorning.
She said get me 10 recipes andwrite the introduction to see if
you can write.
And then I put it and she sayswe don't want it to be a New
York cookbook, we want it to benational.
So I said, all right, I'll putan ad in Firehouse Magazine,
which is still out there andasking for recipes, and I'll
(13:20):
send a free book.
So I got like about 120 to 130recipes and I did have about I
want to say, 20 or 30 of my ownstaple things that I would make
regularly, that I knew I testedand were okay and stuff like
that.
So I put it together and nextthing, you know, they offered me
a contract to write a book.
Wow.
And to this day it's stillunbelievable.
(13:43):
Now, if you have a majorpublisher behind you, it's in
their best interest to get youon all the shows.
So I was on good morningamerica, regis philbin, uh, the
today show, martha stewart, Imean you name it.
Then it was in new york timesdaily news and then it starts
picking up momentum and I I mean, I never quite made it to the
bestseller list, like johncenino, but it did.
(14:03):
It did really well.
I donated it to the bestsellerlist, like John Cernino, but it
did, it did really well.
I donated money to the ByrneCenter, new York Firefighters,
byrne Center, of course.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Wonderful.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And then, yeah, then it was like a crazy celebrity
ride.
Like every five minutes I wasgetting a call about.
You know, would you?
New York Times Gourmet Magazine?
They made me the CosmopolitanBachelor of the Month.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Cosmo Bachelor of the month.
Yeah, what month was that?
Do you remember what year thatwas?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, it was 95 or 96 .
And actually it was on the samepage as Denzel Washington.
Oh, that's fabulous, which ispretty cool.
And that was another crazystory, because I got you know.
They said don't use your homeaddress because girls will go to
your house, oh boy, to use a pobox.
(14:49):
So, being the cheap firemanthat I am, I got the smallest
little box that was the size ofa shoe box, po box maybe it was
eight dollars.
I had one like that.
Yeah, it was like eight bucks,eight bucks for the month,
exactly way promoting the book.
And I come back and the postoffice guy said are you crazy?
I go, why he goes.
You rented a shoe box, I hegoes.
Wait till you see.
He brings out this giant box ofmail packed with
perfume-smelling letters fromall over the world.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And it became so funny because I brought it to
the.
They go oh, now you're thebachelor of the month.
Oh, my God, I can't believethis.
So I brought the box into thefirehouse and it was funny
because all the married guys Iguess their lives are boring and
this was exciting for them.
We're going to be your mailsorters.
(15:35):
So they set the table up andthey would do it like mail
sorters.
They would go okay, you know,women under 20, women over 30,
women in prison, women overseas,and they were sorting the mail
like that.
Anyway, the only reason I did itis the publisher said to me joe
, you might not want to do this,but it's good publicity for the
book.
So anyway, the book did well.
That's great.
Um, uh, it did well.
They wanted to do a second one,which I did.
A second one called thefirehouse grilling cookbook.
(15:57):
So now it's getting to be the90s and we're getting up to 2000
and I'll bring you up to datewith my 9-11 story which ties
into the cookbook the.
Um, the summer of I was doing alot of promotional stuff and the
summer of I just put myretirement papers in.
And the summer of 2001, thebook publishing people called me
(16:19):
and said ranzoni pasta, whichis a big pasta in New York, they
have any New York firefighterscook off and they want you to be
a judge.
And then we want you to go onTV and promote it.
I said okay.
So I went on a few TV showspromoting this cooking contest
that I was going to judge andthen they said all right, we got
one.
Last thing we want you to do isWB11 in New York wants you to
(16:40):
do a live TV segment and we wantyou to do it at your firehouse.
My final firehouse was Ladder152 in Queens, engine 299,
ladder 152.
I said okay.
So they go okay, joe, it's allset.
September 8th 2001 at Ladder152.
Okay, it's all set.
We'll send a car service topick you up.
(17:00):
Okay, great, you know, early inthe morning and we'll start at
like 5 36 in the morning andwe'll do a couple of live
segments.
Okay, no problem.
About a week before I get a callfrom the tv producers and they
go uh, we had to change somestuff.
We, the, we don't really get agood signal from queens and the,
the production crew doesn'twant to go all the way out to
queens with the traffic.
(17:20):
They want to do it frommanhattan.
So we lined you up for doingthis segment at Ladder 3 on 13th
and Broadway, which I'm likeyeah, okay, I knew some people
that worked there.
My brother actually knew somepeople that worked there, no
problem.
So I said, okay, I'll do it.
The only thing is we can't doit September 8th.
Are you available?
I get choked up, are you notknowing?
(17:45):
I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, who,who would ever you know?
I said, sure, no problem, okay,it's all set.
Ladder three, 13th and Broadway.
You'll be there about five, 36in the morning.
So I get there, I meet some ofthe firefighters.
It's the morning of September11th, beautiful day.
As you know beautiful weather.
Meet all the firefighters.
(18:06):
Two of them actually work withmy brother, michael, and a very
famous firefighter, captainPatty Brown, legendary New York
City firefighter.
He was the captain there onduty, coming into work and the
host of the show shows up and soit's in the studio.
But they said we're going tocut live to ladder three on 13th
(18:26):
and Broadway, where our host,larry Hoff from WB11 is with Joe
Bonanno doing this live cookingsegment and we're promoting
Ranzoni pasta because they'redonating $10,000.
So we're doing children's fun.
So we did one at 645, one at 710.
And I think the last one was atlike 81515.
(18:47):
And the first plane hit at 8.46.
The thing ends at like 8.28,something like that.
And then you know, you're justkind of hanging around went in
the kitchen, had a cup of coffee.
I came out to the apron.
The Ranzoni representative saysto me Joe, the car service
people are in the Bronx, they'renot going to get here for an
hour.
So the other firefighters arelike, hey, great, come, not
(19:13):
going to get here for an hour.
So the other firefighters werelike, hey, great, come back in
the kitchen with us.
Finish cooking, we'll finishbreakfast, and blah, blah.
And so at the last minute.
I swear to God it was 840.
It's that close.
I'm standing on the apron.
She gets a phone call, theMarzoni representative.
She goes Joe, good news,there's a guy right around the
block from the car service.
He can come and get you now, ifyou want, and take you home.
Okay, I was like you know what.
(19:34):
And the other firefighter waslike no, take the other one,
wait, wait, wait, hang out withus.
I says yeah, you know what.
I don't want to hold a guy up,and you know, because, had I
stayed, I surely would have wentwith them.
There's no doubt about it.
The car pulls up.
(19:55):
I said, hey, fellas, take iteasy, have a safe tour.
Shook Patty Brown's hand.
They finished up whatever wemade, finish it off for
breakfast, got in the car and wepull out.
By the time I got to 6th Avenue, ladder three was right behind
me.
I made a right to the QueensMidtown tunnel.
They made a left to the WorldTrade Center.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
The plane literally had to fly right over where we
were the car.
I looked at the clock it was846.
I didn't see it, but literallythat was the timing.
So now I'm hearing fire truck,but it's Manhattan.
You expect to hear that it'scause fire and they're racing by
me and I'm like man, somethingmust be big going on.
I asked the car service guy,put the radio on and it was just
(20:36):
happening.
They just said we interruptthis program.
Apparently, a small plane lostcontrol and went into the World
Trade Center.
They didn't know much then,that's right.
No, they just were gettingintermittent reports of it and
nobody had a sure answer.
So then I'm hearing on theradio.
(20:56):
Then the lady says I don't knowif it was a small plane, but
the there's a imprint in theside of the building and smoke
coming out and it looks likeit's like six or seven floors
and I'm like small plane six orseven floors no way, that's
right you know, and plus it wasa beautiful day for a pilot to
lose, you know it wasn't cloudyor overcast day that I remember.
Yeah, how could?
A pilot loses bearings and andrun into the world trade?
So I but you know you're kindof dismissing it.
(21:18):
So we go into the queensmantown tunnel, lose the radio
signal when I come out.
We go through the toll.
I look to the right.
I see the second plane hit you.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You saw it hit.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, oh geez.
And then the radio reports noware coming in fast and furious
and they're like a second planehas hit.
Obviously this is not anaccident, this is intentional.
I think we're under attack.
All these radio things arecoming in like crazy.
So I asked the guy turn the cararound, get me back in.
He turned the car around, butthey.
(21:47):
So I asked the guy turn the cararound, get me back in.
He turned the car around, butthey said policeman, fireman,
nobody's getting through thetunnel, tunnels are closed.
Because they were worried thatthey bombed the tunnels or they
weren't letting anybody throughthe tunnel.
So I couldn't get back in.
So I drove back, went back outto Long Island where I was
staying, and when I walked inthe door the first tower was
collapsing.
And I go, I'm watchingthousands and thousands of
(22:11):
people and firemen get killedright before my eyes.
I can't believe this.
My brother, michael, happened tobe home.
He was a New York Cityfirefighter also.
He was discharged with a backinjury and he was in New York
with his wife and daughtervisiting and he called me right
away and I said Michael, I can'twatch this on TV anymore, I
have to go in, you know.
And he said do you have anyextra gear?
(22:34):
And I go yeah, I do.
And he still had his helmet.
So I said take your gear.
I got coat, boots, whateverelse we need, and we jumped on a
train.
My sister dropped us off at thetrain station and we went into
Manhattan.
We got out at Penn Station Imean people were, you know,
first responders were pouring infrom all over the beginning,
(22:54):
all over the city first, thenthe state, then regionally and
then nationally.
Some troopers from Albany in aHumvee saw us in our gear and
waved us over, took us in thisHumvee, got us as close as we
could get and then we walked therest of the way.
And I'll tell you when I turnedthe corner and saw that I
started bawling my eyes out.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Oh my.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
God, I mean just to think that.
You know, I'm looking atthousands of bodies right now
that are in there and the wave,massive wave of grief that's
going to come from this, myselfincluded and not even knowing
people that I work with yet, butI just knew that the level of
(23:35):
disaster is just.
I mean, it did that for thewhole world.
So we went in and did our stuff, you know, and it was so
difficult for the firefightersbecause our job is to save
people and there was nobody tosave.
If you were inside the collapsezone, you were gone.
If you were outside, you knowthere are dust and a few minor
injuries.
You know, even the medicalteams there were having a really
hard time because, again,they're their trauma teams like
(23:56):
mass units.
They were there to save peopleand put people back together,
but it was very not a lot ofminor injuries, it was either
gone or outside the drop, thedrop zone.
So the aftermath funerals, allof that, it just was a lot to
take in.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Oh my gosh, that's so traumatizing.
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Ptsd off the hook really, yeah, on a grand scale
nationally.
But I have to say theoutpouring of love, concern,
care and support from NewYorkers originally, and then
eventually the whole world wasso deeply touching Like we went
(24:40):
back to ladder five I had workedthere for a brief period to
clean up, cause it was prettyclose take showers and whatnot,
before we went back down toground zero maybe catch them
asleep and um, I mean, the guyjust pulled the curtain back and
there was just like trays oflasagna and garlic bread and
people.
They couldn't do enough for us.
You know, the most touchingthing, I think, is, you know, up
(25:03):
on the bulletin board therewere pictures.
I guess they faxed them or they, however they did it at that
time, was faxing.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It wasn't texting or anything like that it was fact
of firefighters from.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Antarctica to Poland, you know, with their hats,
helmets off, saluting us.
Oh my God, you know, pictureafter picture, I mean it was
touching and I have to say itdid help a little bit to
mitigate some of the grief thatwent on there.
But Ladder 12, I mean Ladder 3,where I was that morning, me
(25:40):
and my brother actually found wewere one of the first ones to
find the rig that rig, ladder 3,is in the lobby of the World
Trade Center, world Trade CenterMuseum right now, and I found I
said what happened to all theguys I was with that morning and
he goes, joe, none of them madeit.
Captain Brown and all thosefiremen were on the 44th floor.
(26:01):
In the days that followed wefound out that out of the 12
that were lost that morning thatwere all on TV with me waving
to their children live, out ofthe 12 that were lost that
morning that were all on TV withme waving to their children
live, out of the 12, they onlyfound two of the other 10 bodies
were gone in dust in the wind.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, so that was a lot to a lot to process and that
was a negative out of the blue.
But Ronzoni was great.
They upped their donation tothirty thousand dollars to the
widow and children's fund.
I went on to raise like seventyfive thousand dollars more with
book sales and stuff to um andI donated it directly to some of
(26:38):
the families of latter threewhere I was that morning and I
actually made a tape of ourmorning appearance because it
was live and it was the lastlive video of those firefighters
alive and delivered it to allthe families that they can have
some kind of a remembrance ofwhere they were and what they
were doing and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Wow, I got something I wanted to say, but I'm
thinking what I have to say islike fluff compared to what
you're saying.
You know, and I was going tosay that, my experience with
9-11, I was on a plane at loganairport wow, at 8 am I got on a
flight that was headed tochicago.
Wow, and I'm.
And I got.
(27:18):
I was good.
I was there to do work for thechristian science monitor which
I worked for at the time, andI'm sitting and I got bumped to
the first class because youcould do that with a lot of
frequent flyer miles.
And I'm sitting in first classand I've got my little earbud in
.
I'm listening to the radio,like when they told us to turn
off the radios.
You know, I sat there with myradio, I was cheating like I did
a lot, and I was listening toHoward Stern and he announces oh
(27:42):
my God, a plane just hit theWorld Trade Center Right, and I
went, whoa.
I got up out of my seat andwalked over to the pilot and
said hey, sir, I just heard onHoward Stern.
I know I'm not supposed to belistening, but a plane hit the
World Trade Center, he goesreally.
He said go sit down, sir, thankyou.
And this was an AmericanAirlines flight that I was on.
(28:03):
And then I come back and I satdown and then he says the second
one hit.
And I went to the back and Isat down, and then he says the
second one hits.
And I went to the cockpit and Isaid and he says we know, thank
you very much, please sit down.
And they're all getting allfreaked out.
And in about 20 minutes theysaid everybody has to deplane.
There's been a nationalgrounding and on the way out I
(28:25):
saw the stewardesses and thepilots all hugging each other
because they obviously knew thecrew, but that it hit.
There was one American Airlinesflight that hit.
As a matter of fact, there wasa flight that I took the week
before and I took every otherweek to go to LA.
It was a Los Angeles flight.
It left at 730.
And I knew that crew and I wasshocked, I was grief stricken.
(28:53):
And then I went outside the gateand I sat down and I said I got
to call my office and tell themI'm going to catch the next
flight or something.
This is what I think and I'mcrazy.
I called the office and they'resaying oh my God, we didn't
know what flight you were on.
You're alive, oh God.
I thought we might've been onthe LA flight, we didn't know.
No, I'm here, just get out ofthere.
And I said why?
I said you're not gonna goanywhere, get home.
And I got out of the airport andthat right after I left they
(29:15):
closed the airport.
They closed logan, yeah.
But I made it home and boy ohboy that and I thought it was
and I had trauma from that.
I can't even imagine the kindof trauma that you had to endure
because of this, so close tothis horrible event.
I mean, I'm amazed and actuallyquite moved to hear you talk
(29:41):
about the outpouring of love,because it makes me realize too
that in adversity and inhorrible things, oftentimes it
brings out the best in peopleyou know, well you know, for the
first responders and that's whythey call it post traumatic
stress disorder, because at themoment I and my brother had to
(30:02):
switch gears into rescue mode.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
We can't deal with body parts and things that we
saw.
You know, every once in a whileyou get like I did a lot of
construction work in my life andyou'd look around and I
remember saying to my brother,michael 110 stories Do you see a
toilet bowl anywhere?
Like there wasn't a toilet bowlto be seen, there wasn't a
(30:25):
conference table, everything waspulverized into small little
you know.
I mean toilet bowls must'vebeen in that building.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And to not see a toilet bowl or a seat or a van,
a sink, or you know.
I was walking through the dust,I tripped and I reached into
the dust.
I tripped on something.
I picked it up.
It was a little 10 pound chromedumbbell and it must've been,
it must've been a gym on one ofthe upper upper floors, right.
And now it's at the ground.
It's at ground level, oh boy,you know and then we heard later
(30:55):
on we heard all the I guess youwant to call it technical data
about it.
That it you know it came downin 11 seconds.
The people on the floor didn'teven.
I mean, if there's any grace init is that it was so
instantaneous that hopefullythey didn't feel too much.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
It was lights out, not set.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Lights out and, yeah, there was no like, not even
time for an oh crap.
You know, like, just like,what's going on and you know,
and there was all of that kindof thinking Post, like I said,
when you get home or you give achance to breathe, and even the
grief thing, and that's why itstarts to hit you later, Just
like in wartime.
I mean, if your friend getskilled right next to you, you
(31:34):
can't cry and say, oh my God,they're still shooting at you.
You have to survive it.
Right, it's later.
It's later when you are back tocivilian life or back to you
know, and that's the part thatyou know.
That's why I wanted to getcertified in it.
So we can fast forward thestory a little bit.
Yes, Brother, I know we weretalking about it the other day.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yes, your brother.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yep and a very handsome man, by the way.
Terrible shame, yeah.
And he in 2012, he committedsuicide, took his life Too much
for him, that stuff.
Well again everybody says youknow, was it nine 11?
Was it family issues?
Was it financially?
You know yes and no.
There's, and you know, peoplewho don't have a background in
(32:17):
behavioral health or anything.
So, usually it's.
The first question is why?
Well, they said, well, we justgot divorced.
Well, if that was true, theneverybody that gets divorced
would take their life.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Or he just got fired.
Well then, everybody gets fired.
Take their life.
It isn't.
And it's also how you processit.
And that doesn't mean andthat's the part that for the
survivors that's really hard yousay, well, was I stronger than
him?
I don't want to hear that I wasstronger than him, that I
didn't feel bad about 9-11 orfamily issues and stuff.
It's really how you process andthat's where the people who've
(33:06):
made it more firefighters andmilitary are dying from line of
duty suicide than are dying fromline of duty.
So at these nationalconventions, shouldn't that be
the emphasis to stop loss oflife.
At a national seminar, you knowfive firefighters getting
together.
(33:26):
What course are you going totake today?
Oh, there's forcible entry.
There's ventilation, entry andsearch.
There's roof rope rescues.
Which one are you taking?
Oh, I'm going to take thesuicide prevention.
They're like what?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Suicide prevention.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
So you know, I gave Vernon.
I gave it a lot of thought theother day like how can we appeal
to the powers that be to givethese seminars?
Well, when you take a forcibleentry class, that doesn't mean
every time you go out you'regoing to have to access a
forcible entry, knowledge thatyou've learned.
But you have it in your bankthat when you get to a situation
when you have to take a doorokay, I took this class, I know
(34:02):
how to do it.
So the firefighters and thepowers that be have to put that
in their mind.
You're not taking the suicidecourse because when you go back
to the fire, it's just all right, stand up.
Anybody thinking about takingsuicide?
No, you have that knowledge andyou have it in the bank because
you want to rescue not onlycivilians, but you want to
rescue firefighters.
But if more of them are takingtheir life, that's where we have
(34:22):
to put the emphasis on rescue.
So maybe the 25 year oldfirefighter that just got on
isn't thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Right, right, they're 25.
They live forever.
They're immortal.
They don't think in theirchurch.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Well, it does happen younger, but it does happen.
More of it is an old.
Statistically it's an olderperson who's experienced life a
little like you said, out of theblue, right Out of the blue a
divorce, a financial mishap.
You screw up at work and you'reembarrassed.
Now add all of these things up.
So now the firefighter who'sconcerned with his brother
firefighters says now he hasthis tool in his bag.
He says I took this suicidecourse so and so is starting to
(34:59):
show signs that life's comingapart for him.
I know, now I have the tool inmy, in my hard drive.
He says let's sit down and talkabout this a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
What are some of the things you could say that we can
.
We'll obviously share withpeople as they're watching this,
that they can use to noticethese.
What signs, what kind of signs,could you say you know?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
everybody asks that, but that's not a universal
answer.
Like you said, the voice isn'ta universal sign.
There are some things thatpeople have said like if they
start giving away all theirstuff my personal experience and
a lot of reading about it Ithink I sold you this one the
other day One of the survivaltechniques of people that work
(35:43):
in military stuff is they callit galozuma, meaning you're on
your way to the gallows and youcrack a joke just to get over
know it well, yeah so.
So my one of my, I rememberdistinctly, remember saying to
my brother, three months beforeit happened, when did you lose
your firehouse sense of humor?
And then they, when they starthitting you with, I call it the
(36:05):
year butts.
Yeah, but you don't understand.
I'm getting divorced and youknow my father doesn't talk to
me anymore.
We got a big argument Okay,yeah, but put it in the proper
perspective.
Is it really worth?
And at that moment that'swhat's terrible and this is how
I've kind of looked at it.
It can't be on your option listbecause you're getting divorced
(36:30):
.
All right, is it a wonderfulthing?
Of course not.
But sometime in the future youcould meet somebody else, or
maybe you go off on your ownsingle and live a great life and
take vacations and pursue yourhobbies, crafts and interests.
But it's when they startbringing it up as an option to
either financial, whateveryou're out of the blue.
Terrible thing is is it reallyworth taking your life over?
(36:51):
But if 10 other things wentwrong in your life and then your
transmission goes and they'vealready had this in their mind
as an option, you say, well, hetook his light, well, his
transmission went and the nextday blew his brains out.
Well, because his transmissionwent.
No, all the other stuff addedup cumulative and listen, by the
(37:13):
time you're 50, you definitelyhave had some financial stress.
You might have had relationshipstress, whether it's siblings,
family, spouse, um, maybe somemedical issues too.
I mean, everybody by the timeyou're 50 has had some
absolutely out of the blue,unexpected thing happen.
But and and it's how you'reprocessing it, but it's, I
(37:33):
believe, my opinion and a littlebit of training is that let's
say there's 20 different thingsthat can happen from this out of
the blue thing financial stress, you can make more money, you
could win a lottery, you could.
It's when they say, if none ofthat works out, you know, maybe
win a lottery you could.
It's when they say, if none ofthat works out, you know, maybe
this life isn't even worth it.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Were you going to offer that course yourself?
Did you have an idea to offer?
No, I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I would like to do that, and I'm working with a
great organization calledffbhaorg, jeff Dill.
He's a retired Palatine captainand he, I want to say he, saved
my life, because it's not thatI was contemplating taking my
life, but I was at such a lowafter my brother passed away I
didn't think I was going tosurvive another day, just from
grief.
I believe you and he you knowhe got ahold of me.
(38:19):
I went up to Chicago to be withyou know, meet with him and talk
to him and stuff like that, andI mean he really put me on the
right track to dealing with thegrief and stuff like that.
So I know what you're asking isyou're in a firehouse or police
station or wherever you aremilitary and you're sitting with
a bunch.
You can kind of see whensomebody's starting to separate
themselves a little bit, actinga little off, okay, and as a
(38:41):
confidant or best.
I might not be his best friend,but he definitely has somebody
that he confides in.
I might not be his best friend,but he definitely has somebody
that he confides in Spouse,mother, uncle, friend, say
listen who do you have in your?
life that you can trust, thatyou can share stuff with.
You know, oh well, yeah,everybody sucks.
Everybody at work sucks,everybody, you know.
(39:03):
But my uncle is one of my.
You call the uncle and you saylisten, I work with him, I'm a
little concerned, and I'mconcerned because I've lost
somebody like this.
Now, ask him up front.
Listen, I know things aren'tgoing great in your life.
You know they could get better,they could get worse, I don't
(39:25):
know, but we have to keep thisin perspective.
Have you considered, consideredas an option like this?
Life isn't worth it.
I I wouldn't even say have youconsidered suicide, because that
it really puts people off rightyou know like oh no, I wouldn't
dothat oh, I would never.
What are you kidding me?
I would never do that.
I got a daughter, I got myfamily.
Uh, right, so I I say a moregentle approach would be to say
(39:49):
are you starting to think thatthis life really isn't worth it?
It opens the door a little bitmore gently and he goes.
You better do.
After my divorce, after I lostmy house, the chief came down on
me because of something I didat work.
And then they're talking aboutfiring me.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I have a question Do you think that it would be
helpful to recommend having sortof like a therapist assigned to
each person?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
as the firehouse.
Yeah, each person in thefirehouse.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well to me it sounds like there are a lot of emotions
that you have to put aside togo through these intense
experiences, and emotions don'tjust go away.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I know what you're saying, but as soon as you
mentioned the word therapist-and being in that environment,
with the macho level beingexponential.
so put it to them, because mybrother, believe me, he was a
loving, caring individual.
He had a daughter and a wife.
But you know if and me, and ifhe would have said well, and if
(40:59):
I would have said to him, do youknow what this is going to do
to you?
Plus, you put the guilt trip onthem, their fellow firefighters
.
It's kind of hard for them tosay I don't care about them.
At the moment it happens, I dobelieve that that they don't.
They just shut, everybody shutsout, and I have accomplished
this mission and I'm out of thislife.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, because they're just so full of pressure.
Everything is just pressure,pressure, pressure, building,
building, building.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
And this is the relief.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
You know, that's why I thought, when you said the
thing about humor, I thinkthat's a pretty solid thing to
look for people lacking humor,because that pressure building
that Jackie just said, that'swhat humor does.
It kind of it's a steam valve,lets out a little pressure.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
You know what I mean Right, and that's if you want to
call it a sign.
That's one of the signs.
I see that they don't.
I think it's a pretty clear one.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know someone's getting no humor at all,
especially when you're workingas a first responder.
You know that gallows humorthat we talked about.
It's necessary in thatenvironment, because how do you
deal with it day after day?
I mean, I've myself spent alittle time in law enforcement
as a PI and I also knew a lot offiremen and we'd hang out at a
(42:15):
bar after the show, after theday and everybody's
commiserating and the thingsthey have to deal with every day
and they're joking abouthorrible things because they
have to.
You've got to let it out.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Right For civilians.
The best example I could say asan example is remember the TV
show MASH yes With Alan Alda.
Oh yeah, loved it, and Radarand all that.
Well, here they are cuttingopen 18-year-old kids every day.
Yeah, and they had the bestsense of humor going, but
eventually in that show Hawkeye,which is Alan Alda he ended up
(42:51):
having a nervous breakdown atthe end.
I remember Because that humorcan only last so long.
It's only so, but it does getyou through the moment.
But that's why you said youhave to dig a little bit deeper
and say listen, I get youlaughing this off.
Your financial issues, divorce,whatever it is, I get you
laughing this off.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
But on a deeper level , I'm sure this is starting to
get to you you know what I thinkwhen I, when I hear you talking
, what just occurs to me is thatyou had whatever your
predisposition to do it, youwere wired to figure out a way
forward.
Like when things were bad, youthought like you want to pay it
forward.
Even now, that's what your lifeis.
(43:31):
You like to pay it forward you.
That's why you did the, thatburn camp for kids, right, and
you do ptsd counseling for firstresponders and people like that
, right?
Yes, so I mean that is a way topay it forward.
So I think that's something.
Maybe that's a great thing toshow people.
I think we're showing them nowthroughout the blue of this
(43:52):
podcast.
It's about showing how you,joseph Bonanno, was able to turn
what was unbelievable, horribletrauma, ptsd off the hook.
I mean off off the shot.
Something beyond.
I mean I know my dad had ptsdand he had seen he was on grave
registration in korea, so he wasdoing the same thing like mash
(44:15):
with bodies all day long.
He came home, he was in such,he had such ptsd.
It was ridiculous, but that'snot even as bad as your
situation.
That happened in one day oh myGod, overwhelming.
And that's what I think it iswith all first responders.
They have to face this stuffand it's just boom, there it is.
And when you have to deal withthat on a daily basis, I mean
(44:38):
you need to have an escape plan.
You kind of do, and you need to.
If they're not wired to thinkof four in terms of you like you
to find a way to pay it forwardthat I can do something with
this negative stuff that helpspeople.
Now why do you think you didthat?
I like I'm curious.
I think anybody thatunderstands the out of the blue
(44:58):
idea is curious.
How will you?
Speaker 3 (45:01):
tell.
I would love, I would love tosay to you, I would love to say
to you that I'm a warriorpersonality and I'll take it and
I could figure it out, um, butlisten, it's true though you are
, I've had my, I've had myterribly weak moments, believe
me.
Um, in 1980, 1981, uh, I wasonly on the fire department a
(45:24):
year and a half.
My mother fell asleep with acigarette.
She had an alcohol problem.
She was burned 55% of her body.
They helicoptered her to NassauCounty Burn Center.
She lived for a week and shedied from burns.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
So I had that on my thing and I'll be perfectly
honest with you, I don't mindsharing this with your audience.
At that time, believe me, itwas on my option list.
I'm like, how am I gonna?
I'm a firefighter, I was atwork and my mother gets caught
in a fire and and and winds updying a week later.
And now, now I got to continuemy rest of my that's how I start
(46:05):
my career running into burningbuildings to save people.
And I couldn't even save my ownmother.
I was starting to think of itthat way and then I said to
myself you know what?
I don't know, maybe because I'ma planner.
I was like you know what?
I don't want to leave thisearth and not have other people
make out from it.
So I go I'm in the perfect jobfor suicide, because I could
(46:26):
just stay longer than I shouldin a building and get killed.
And I go look, I'll look like ahero died in the line of duty.
Nobody will ever know that itwas suicide and my family is
going to get my pension, myeverything else.
And, believe me, that's how Ikind of know, because it was
option 20.
But I had just bought a houseright just before my mother died
(46:49):
we had some issues with myfather and stuff and my brother,
michael, and my sister actuallymoved away from my father.
He remarried.
They didn't get along with thewife.
They moved in with me.
So now I had a little bit of aresponsibility.
So I said, wow, I can't.
But believe me, it stayed in mybrain for a good few years
after that and I don't know.
I never got to the point thatpeople who have actually done
(47:11):
this is because it didn't moveup to where this is I am doing
it.
It just became.
If I'm at work and the rightsituation arises and we talked
about this the other day, therehave been several people who
have attempted suicide and woundup living, and when they talked
to them afterwards, all of thepeople said the same exact thing
(47:34):
.
The minute I did it, like theminute I jumped off the bridge,
I said this is the stupidestthing I've ever done.
How could I have done this?
Speaker 2 (47:43):
The reality hit them, but they hit theest thing I've
ever done.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
How could I have done this?
The reality hit them, but theyhit the water and they didn't
die.
Somebody rescued them andthey're like what was I thinking
?
And that's the unbelievablestatistic Almost 100% of them
never tried it again.
It's not like they tried.
They were unsuccessful at it.
A year later they took theirlife again.
Nope, they never attempted itagain, ever.
That's amazing they didn'trealize I lost my mind.
(48:06):
And, believe me, if somebodycould have tackled my brother
and held him down through thatterrible period before he jumped
off a bridge, if somebody couldhave tackled him and held him
on the ground until that momentpassed, I think he would still
be with us.
And it's the same thing.
They call it self-murder, soit's the same thing.
(48:26):
When somebody murders somebody,you know somebody's getting an
argument with his spouse andover something inconsequential,
and they and you know they pickup a baseball bat and beat him
to death, right.
And then are they, at themoment that that rage is going
on, they thinking I'm going togo to prison, my name's going to
be in the paper, I got a court,I just like gave up everything.
(48:48):
No, the rage, you just tookover.
So the rage against themselvesit's the term.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
It's really temporary insanity temporary insanity.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
So if you can get them through that.
So that's why, before thetemporary insanity occurs, even
in, even in the case of a murder, you say oh, you know, your
wife just took you to court,she's taken everything from you.
You know I could kill her.
You can't even put that in yourvocabulary.
So if I'm given a class or aclinic, to firefighter's first
response I say I don't even wantto hear that, it's on your
(49:16):
option list, I don't want tohear it's option 50.
If you know, if I loseeverything, I'm no it and for me
, luckily, the option it was onmy.
That's how I know it put it onmy option list.
How am I going to live the restof my life?
Am I ever going to be happyagain?
I lost my mother.
I watched my mother die fromburns in front of me.
I mean, how am I ever gonna,you know?
(49:36):
And then 9-11 came and the samething.
And then my brother's suicide,which damn near killed me from
the grief.
But I didn't think, think tomyself, this life isn't worth it
.
I just said, you know what,we're all going to leave this
life sooner or later anyway.
And I've said that to him threemonths before.
We're going to end this lifesooner or later.
What's the rush?
(49:57):
Right, exactly, it's shortenough actually yes, and you
don't know.
Like you said, out of the blue,perfect name for your thing.
So why do we, as human beings,always project out of the blue
terrible things?
It's always projection towardsthe negative.
You know, you get a little lumpon your shoulder.
Oh, it's cancer, I'm gonna bedone, I'm gonna die.
Yep, well, it might be just.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
You know, it's just a mark on your shoulders not
cancer.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
And you know we do this all the time and, and one
time I gave a seminar, Ireferenced this funny story.
Of course, you're old enough,like me, to remember the
honeymoon, is it Ralph Cramden,of course.
What a fabulous actor he was.
Yes, and I referenced thisstory because here's an example
of getting in trouble andthinking it's something.
So Ralph and Ed are sitting atthe table in their little
apartment and he says I just gota letter from the IRS.
(50:42):
I can't believe it.
I'm getting audited, oh my God.
I took.
I was driving the bus that dayand Mrs McGillicuddy gave me a
cake and I never reported it, ohmy God, plus the penalties and
the fees and he was drivinghimself crazy and not to the
point of suicide.
But he was actually saying, ohmy God, I'm going to lose the
apartment, I'll lose the house,alice is going to leave me
because I, you know, and he goesto the IRS.
(51:03):
He's shaking.
You know the way he acted.
He's shaking like a leaf beforehe goes in.
Then he goes.
I'm going to, I'm going to, I'mgoing to, I'm going to he goes
into the IRS guy like a mess.
He made himself miserable for 24hours.
And he goes in and he goes, MrCramden, and he goes.
Listen, I know the cake fromMrs McCulloch, honey.
I never reported it and it wasprobably a $3 cake, you know.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
And he goes no.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
He goes.
Well, what's the problem?
He goes.
Mr Cramden, you never signedyour report, you never signed
your return and that's all itwas.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
You know, joseph, your story is inspirational.
I mean, you really have takensome absolute traumas.
You know the worst possible outof the blue things and you've
had some beautiful good ones too, but you were able to like use
them actually to propel you intodoing what you're doing now
(52:00):
powerfully good things,especially that burn clinic you
did with the children.
Wow, I mean that's amazing.
You did that probably in yourmother's name.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
I did.
Actually, it's the reason I didit.
Yes, I just.
I did a new cookbook calledAmerican Firehouse Cuisine.
It's available on Amazon orthrough me.
You can go to my website,wwwamericanfirehousecuisinecom.
I did it for the 20-yearanniversary of 9-11.
There's a bread pudding recipein there Well, firehouse bread
pudding that I'd put up againstBobby Flay or any of the top
chefs that are out there, andI'm doing a firehouse cooking
(52:34):
podcast right now.
I built a studio here in myhome.
Oh wonderful.
I slide down the pole every dayto do the show that's also on
the website so cool Good idea.
That's on the website too, soI'm kind of trying to develop
that thing and more of it is outthere to your audience.
Any chiefs, first responders,police officers, military that
are thinking about doing aseminar, I'm available to do
(52:54):
those seminars.
I have a background in trainingin it.
Now who better to do it thansomebody that's experienced
suicide personally with a firstresponder and is also have a
background in it?
Let me do one more.
Can I get one more shout outfor my nieces?
absolutely I just want to give ashout out to my brother-in-law,
my sister donna, and my twoamazing, strong, handsome
(53:17):
nephews, nick and jake, and mybeautiful uh niece jessica and
michael and michael's daughteris Isabel and his wife Barbara.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
That's so wonderful.
I'm so wonderful, so gratefulfor you coming with us today,
Joe.
I mean, this has been a reallyno thank you.
Enlightening, moving, powerfulepisode.
I really am grateful, man, youreally brought a lot to us.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
I'm grateful, too, for having me on.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
I mean, I cannot really say my articulated enough
just thank you so much.
That's about it.
I I'm at a loss for words,that's.
That's all I need.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
That's fun and uh, thank you very much for joining
us.
Jackie, thank you for my verymuch and um thank you, thank you
for joining us on thisamazingly powerful episode of
Out of the Blue with Joe Bonanno, a retired fireman and now
incredible podcaster, as well asputting so much into his life
to pay it forward.
Thank you again for joining us.
(54:14):
This is Vernon West, jackieWest and Joe Bonanno, and this
has been Out of the Blue, thepodcast Out of the Blue, the
podcast Hosted by me, vernonWest, co-hosted by Jacqueline
(54:36):
West, edited by Joe Gallo, musicand logo by Vernon West III.
Have an Out of the Blue storyof your own you'd like to share?
Reach us at info atoutoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
Subscribe to Out of the Blue onApple Podcasts, spotify or
wherever you get your podcasts,and on our website,
(54:59):
outoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
You can also check us out onPatreon for exclusive content.
Welcome back to Out of the Blue, the podcast, where
real people share real storiesof resilience, transformation
and the human spirit risingthrough adversity.
I'm your host, vernon West,joined by my daughter and
co-host, jackie West, our socialmedia and marketing manager, a
professional musician and aReiki healer.
Our guest today has lived alife of service, courage and
(00:46):
heart.
Joseph Bonanno is a US AirForce veteran and a retired New
York City firefighter who'sserved 21 years, including his
work in the rescue and recoveryefforts at Ground Zero after
9-11.
But Joe's story doesn't stopthere.
He's also an academy-trainedchef, a three-time cookbook
(01:07):
author, a certified fitnesstrainer and nutritionist, and
most recently certified by theIAFF and PTSD counseling, using
his own experience to helpfellow first responders heal
(01:27):
wanders heal.
When he's not speaking, cookingor training, you can find him
volunteering at a children'sburn camp, giving back in yet
another powerful way.
With a career that bridgesbravery, creativity and
compassion, joseph Bonanno isliving proof that service to
others takes many forms.
Joe, welcome to Out of the Blue, the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh, thank you, Vernon , and thank you Jackie too.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
It's quite an introduction.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
It's quite an introduction.
A lot to live up to.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
You earned it.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
That's all your stuff you earned that, thank you,
thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
And that's a big deal .
You know that is a big deal,all those things.
So where can we start?
Usually, where we start is thebeginning.
When was 34 year, veteran ofthe New York city fire
department and worked in?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
the South Bronx and engine 88 through the what they
call in New York city.
The war years, through thesixties and seventies, when the
Bronx was burning and New Yorkwas, you know, really had one of
the highest response rates inthe entire world at that time.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So he didn't.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I wouldn't say he forced me to the fire service,
but and I was.
You know, there's two types ofteenagers or kids when they're
growing up One they want toemulate their father and one
they want to.
I'm not going to do what youdid.
I'm better than you.
I'm going to be a.
Well, I was the arrogant pain inthe neck teenager who didn't
want to do what he did for aliving and I remember at the
(03:06):
time he said to me all right,listen, you don't have to take
the job, but don't be stupid.
At least take the test.
And when they call you, if youdon't want to take it, you don't
take it.
So I was just getting out ofcollege at the time and I was
going on a few job interviewsand the job interviews I was
going on I just I know it justdidn't seem appealing to me and
I do.
(03:26):
One thing I do remember is myfather, growing up, would take
me to these firehouse parties,christmas party, summer parties
at the park or something likethat.
And I just remember all thefirefighters were all
ecstatically happy individuals,you know, and apparently loved
their jobs, and the businessjobs that I was going to look at
didn't appear that the peoplereally liked their jobs, so I
(03:49):
took the test.
I scored pretty well.
I think at the time I took it,40,000 people took the test for
the New York City FireDepartment, so my list number
was 1,124.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
That's pretty up there.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, it was up there .
Yeah.
So a fellow that I met at thetraining academy when we were
training for the test.
He wanted to be a firefightersince he was a little kid and he
knew everything about it andalthough my father was in the
fire department he never reallyspoke about it at home.
I didn't even know that theyate meals.
You know, as far as I knew hewent to work.
He came home smelling likesmoke but he really didn't bring
(04:21):
the job home with him.
He never really talked about it.
The danger, the food, the fun,nothing.
He really kept it to himself.
He would talk about differentfirefighters he worked with and
stuff, normal gossip, but reallydidn't talk about the job that
much.
I guess he wanted me to findout on my own.
But the guys that I wastraining with were all just like
my father's friends funny,comical, great guys, real salted
(04:43):
air type.
So I says you know what my listnumber?
Come on, I'm going to take it.
So I took it.
I got assigned to Engine 319,which is a small firehouse in
Queens.
Great again, great individualsto work with.
But these are firefights thathad done their time already and
they were in like a slower typeof firehouse and, of course,
when you're young you want to bein a busy place and so I
(05:04):
transferred to Ladder 129.
And no disrespect for thoseguys.
They did their time in theBronx and Brooklyn and busy
firehouses and now they justwanted to stay in a nicer area
and maybe not as many responses.
Leave that for the youngergeneration, which I was.
So I transferred to Ladder 129.
Was one of the best decisions Iever made.
Great guys, we had all new guysthere and it just double house.
(05:25):
You have twice as manycharacters and just everything.
The meals were bigger, justeverything about it.
How many people in that houseOn shift?
There's 11.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So that's considered a big amount of people to cook
for.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
And you know I'll be the firstone to admit and I'm sure if any
firefighters that I work withare listening I wasn't a
notoriously wonderful firehousechef or anything like that.
It's just that when I got on Irealized the importance of
keeping in good physicalcondition.
I went and got certified as afitness trainer and I would see
(05:59):
guys with a 50 inch waist whohad, you know, 45 years.
You know, 45 years old, 50years old.
You know the job is a physicaljob.
So I always wanted to stay inin great shape and I said, boy,
if I keep eating meals like this, you know they used to say
you're going to be a big man onthis job someday.
Cause I had a big appetite andI said, well, not if I eat
(06:20):
soundly.
You know, grilled chicken,brown rice, nothing more.
But you know the old schoolfirefighters are more like meat
and potatoes type.
Sure, and you don't have toexercise because you get enough
work running into burningbuildings.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, when you run up the slatter man, that's
exercise, right.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It is, but you're not doing it often enough and with
enough regularity to constitutefitness.
You know what I mean.
So I jumped in once in a whileand prepared a few meals, trying
to make them a little healthy.
I mean, perfect example is andI use this story all the time is
I was making one of thefirefighters excellent cooks, by
the way, they were that I haveto give them that.
But you know they were makingmashed potatoes and the one guy
is peeling sticks of butter likethey were bananas and throwing
(07:03):
the sticks of butter and youknow, four sticks of butter for
mashed potatoes for six or eightpeople.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I bet you they were awesome.
Mashed potatoes Well they were.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But you know I learned different techniques
taking cooking classes, how youcould make like roasted garlic
which isn't going to add any fator cholesterol to the meal.
So I was able to prepare a fewmeals here and there that were
healthy and delicious.
And again, I won't.
I'll be the first one to say Ididn't have any kind of
reputation at it.
But in 1984, a New Yorkfirefighter assigned to Engine
(07:34):
58, john Sinino, passed away.
God rest his soul.
Wonderful firefighter wrote thefirefighter's cookbook and he
did a.
It was a small paperback, nopictures paperback thing and he
did it kind of like just on alock because he was a halfway
decent firehouse cook.
And they said hey, john, throwa few recipes together, we'll
(07:54):
put some of our recipes together.
So he did it unbeknownst to him.
He the the first uh printingwas only 5 000 copies because he
figured, yeah, it's just goingto be fireman buying it and a
few other people.
Well anyway, phil Donahue, Idon't know if you remember him.
I do, of course.
Yeah, he had a talk show.
He was in Chicago, he wasmoving his studio to New York.
(08:15):
He asked his producers how canI warm up to the New York
audience?
Give me some ideas.
So his producers said you knowwhat?
We always give me some ideas.
So his producer said you knowwhat?
We always see firefighters inthe store making food and new
york new yorkers love theirfirefighters love them.
And he says well, a new yorkfireman, jackie, just wrote a
little cookbook, maybe we'llhave him on as a guest.
So he had him on as a guest hisfirst episode in new york.
(08:37):
So john was not a tvpersonality, neither am I, and
he was so busy talking to phildonahue about the book that the
chicken started burning that hewas making on stage and it made
for a great comedy thing.
Like phil donahue interruptedme, he goes you know I love
hearing stories about the fireservice, but you know you may
have to call the other speakingof fire.
(08:58):
Speaking of fire, your chickencutlets are burning.
So he had to come here russianon.
So the term now is it wentviral.
That wasn't the terminologythen.
But because of that episode hiscookbook went on the New York
Times bestseller list Cool, andit was there for nine weeks in a
row.
Wow, Fast forward for me.
I had no intentions of writinga cookbook, but the new school
(09:21):
in Manhattan was offering acourse called how to write a
cookbook and get it published.
So I says you know what I'm inbetween shifts.
It was like a Friday night andSaturday night.
I didn't want to drive all theway back out to Long Island.
I said you know what, take acourse from Manhattan, kill my
day tour and then I'll go backand work that night, never
(09:45):
expecting.
So I take the class.
The teacher says you know, wewant to go around the room and
everybody and it was like 75people, class was sold out, 75
people.
And because it's new york,everybody was trying to get
noticed, except me, right, likeall the other people were there
with stacks of recipes.
Oh my god, look at the peopleI'm surrounded by.
I don't even have an idea or arecipe with me.
So the teacher goes around theroom and says you know, uh, just
put it out there, your idea fora cookbook.
So I said Joe, quick, thinkquick.
(10:07):
So they're getting to me one byone.
People are name dropping.
Because it's New York, you knowall chef at the culinary
Institute.
I was Robert De Niro's personalchef, blah, blah, blah, all
this stuff.
And I'm like, oh my God, allright.
So they get to me.
I had just gotten certified asa fitness trainer.
So I had that in my resume.
So I said, listen, I was a NewYork City firefighter at that
(10:28):
time for 15 years, right, and Isaid I just got certified as a
fitness trainer and anutritionist.
And firefighters are known forgood cooks but a lot of times
they health-related issues totheir cooking.
And there was a successful bookin 84.
So I said if I was going to doa cookbook, it would be a
healthy cookbook.
(10:49):
Well, the teacher says you knowwhat I'd mentioned, that this
afternoon we have an editorcoming in.
I'm like, oh my God, now heputs me on the spot.
So in the afternoon an editorcame in and she was like a drill
sergeant.
She was like, all right, yougot to get a query letter
together.
To put a thing, you have tohave 10 tested recipes.
I'm like I don't even have onetested recipe yet.
(11:12):
So the teacher she says I'mopening the floor for five
minutes, everybody's hand shotup but mine and again their name
dropping.
Now she's an editor, so she canactually get their book
published.
And they're saying, oh, youknow, I was a chef in Sweden.
She goes listen, it was fiveSwedish cookbooks last year, 10
the year before next, and shewas dismissing people like that
and I'm like I'm not even, I'msinking in my seat, I'm not even
(11:33):
going to mention my idea.
So then the teacher, the classis ending.
He says thank you everybody forcoming.
For instance, joe, would youstand up and say your idea Like,
oh my God.
So I stand up and I go listen,I'm a New York city firefighter.
There was a successful book.
It was on the bestseller list,but I just got certified as a
(11:53):
fitness trainer.
I would do a healthy book.
She goes that is a fabulousidea, would you?
Would you stay after class andtalk to me?
Whoa, 75 people in the classare ready to kill me because
they went to get noticed and Ididn't want to get noticed.
And I'll never forget theconversation because she says hi
, my name's Harriet Bell.
I'm the head editor for HearstPublishing in New York.
(12:14):
Do you have an agent?
I said Harriet agent, I'm afirefighter.
You know it's hoses, axes, redtrucks.
I don't have an agent.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
She goes well that, that's how it works.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
We'll get you an agent monday morning and she'll
walk you through the process, soit was almost like it was a
done deal that's a that's rightout of the blue and it's
beautiful out of the.
Yeah, it was out of the blue.
Good, yes, yeah those are.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh, there were plenty .
There were plenty of good outof the blues.
Yeah, this was one of them.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
This was one of them and I'll never forget going back
to the firehouse to work mynight tour saying God, you're
not going to believe it.
I was in this, get out of here.
You can't even make a fried egg.
You're going to be writing anational cookbook.
You know, of course,firefighter mentality and humor.
You know they started unloadingon me.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I go, you've got to be kidding.
I.
I talked to the agent Mondaymorning.
She said get me 10 recipes andwrite the introduction to see if
you can write.
And then I put it and she sayswe don't want it to be a New
York cookbook, we want it to benational.
So I said, all right, I'll putan ad in Firehouse Magazine,
which is still out there andasking for recipes, and I'll
(13:20):
send a free book.
So I got like about 120 to 130recipes and I did have about I
want to say, 20 or 30 of my ownstaple things that I would make
regularly, that I knew I testedand were okay and stuff like
that.
So I put it together and nextthing, you know, they offered me
a contract to write a book.
Wow.
And to this day it's stillunbelievable.
(13:43):
Now, if you have a majorpublisher behind you, it's in
their best interest to get youon all the shows.
So I was on good morningamerica, regis philbin, uh, the
today show, martha stewart, Imean you name it.
Then it was in new york timesdaily news and then it starts
picking up momentum and I I mean, I never quite made it to the
bestseller list, like johncenino, but it did.
(14:03):
It did really well.
I donated it to the bestsellerlist, like John Cernino, but it
did, it did really well.
I donated money to the ByrneCenter, new York Firefighters,
byrne Center, of course.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Wonderful.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
And then, yeah, then it was like a crazy celebrity
ride.
Like every five minutes I wasgetting a call about.
You know, would you?
New York Times Gourmet Magazine?
They made me the CosmopolitanBachelor of the Month.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Cosmo Bachelor of the month.
Yeah, what month was that?
Do you remember what year thatwas?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, it was 95 or 96 .
And actually it was on the samepage as Denzel Washington.
Oh, that's fabulous, which ispretty cool.
And that was another crazystory, because I got you know.
They said don't use your homeaddress because girls will go to
your house, oh boy, to use a pobox.
(14:49):
So, being the cheap firemanthat I am, I got the smallest
little box that was the size ofa shoe box, po box maybe it was
eight dollars.
I had one like that.
Yeah, it was like eight bucks,eight bucks for the month,
exactly way promoting the book.
And I come back and the postoffice guy said are you crazy?
I go, why he goes.
You rented a shoe box, I hegoes.
Wait till you see.
He brings out this giant box ofmail packed with
perfume-smelling letters fromall over the world.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And it became so funny because I brought it to
the.
They go oh, now you're thebachelor of the month.
Oh, my God, I can't believethis.
So I brought the box into thefirehouse and it was funny
because all the married guys Iguess their lives are boring and
this was exciting for them.
We're going to be your mailsorters.
(15:35):
So they set the table up andthey would do it like mail
sorters.
They would go okay, you know,women under 20, women over 30,
women in prison, women overseas,and they were sorting the mail
like that.
Anyway, the only reason I did itis the publisher said to me joe
, you might not want to do this,but it's good publicity for the
book.
So anyway, the book did well.
That's great.
Um, uh, it did well.
They wanted to do a second one,which I did.
A second one called thefirehouse grilling cookbook.
(15:57):
So now it's getting to be the90s and we're getting up to 2000
and I'll bring you up to datewith my 9-11 story which ties
into the cookbook the.
Um, the summer of I was doing alot of promotional stuff and the
summer of I just put myretirement papers in.
And the summer of 2001, thebook publishing people called me
(16:19):
and said ranzoni pasta, whichis a big pasta in New York, they
have any New York firefighterscook off and they want you to be
a judge.
And then we want you to go onTV and promote it.
I said okay.
So I went on a few TV showspromoting this cooking contest
that I was going to judge andthen they said all right, we got
one.
Last thing we want you to do isWB11 in New York wants you to
(16:40):
do a live TV segment and we wantyou to do it at your firehouse.
My final firehouse was Ladder152 in Queens, engine 299,
ladder 152.
I said okay.
So they go okay, joe, it's allset.
September 8th 2001 at Ladder152.
Okay, it's all set.
We'll send a car service topick you up.
(17:00):
Okay, great, you know, early inthe morning and we'll start at
like 5 36 in the morning andwe'll do a couple of live
segments.
Okay, no problem.
About a week before I get a callfrom the tv producers and they
go uh, we had to change somestuff.
We, the, we don't really get agood signal from queens and the,
the production crew doesn'twant to go all the way out to
queens with the traffic.
(17:20):
They want to do it frommanhattan.
So we lined you up for doingthis segment at Ladder 3 on 13th
and Broadway, which I'm likeyeah, okay, I knew some people
that worked there.
My brother actually knew somepeople that worked there, no
problem.
So I said, okay, I'll do it.
The only thing is we can't doit September 8th.
Are you available?
I get choked up, are you notknowing?
(17:45):
I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, who,who would ever you know?
I said, sure, no problem, okay,it's all set.
Ladder three, 13th and Broadway.
You'll be there about five, 36in the morning.
So I get there, I meet some ofthe firefighters.
It's the morning of September11th, beautiful day.
As you know beautiful weather.
Meet all the firefighters.
(18:06):
Two of them actually work withmy brother, michael, and a very
famous firefighter, captainPatty Brown, legendary New York
City firefighter.
He was the captain there onduty, coming into work and the
host of the show shows up and soit's in the studio.
But they said we're going tocut live to ladder three on 13th
(18:26):
and Broadway, where our host,larry Hoff from WB11 is with Joe
Bonanno doing this live cookingsegment and we're promoting
Ranzoni pasta because they'redonating $10,000.
So we're doing children's fun.
So we did one at 645, one at 710.
And I think the last one was atlike 81515.
(18:47):
And the first plane hit at 8.46.
The thing ends at like 8.28,something like that.
And then you know, you're justkind of hanging around went in
the kitchen, had a cup of coffee.
I came out to the apron.
The Ranzoni representative saysto me Joe, the car service
people are in the Bronx, they'renot going to get here for an
hour.
So the other firefighters arelike, hey, great, come, not
(19:13):
going to get here for an hour.
So the other firefighters werelike, hey, great, come back in
the kitchen with us.
Finish cooking, we'll finishbreakfast, and blah, blah.
And so at the last minute.
I swear to God it was 840.
It's that close.
I'm standing on the apron.
She gets a phone call, theMarzoni representative.
She goes Joe, good news,there's a guy right around the
block from the car service.
He can come and get you now, ifyou want, and take you home.
Okay, I was like you know what.
(19:34):
And the other firefighter waslike no, take the other one,
wait, wait, wait, hang out withus.
I says yeah, you know what.
I don't want to hold a guy up,and you know, because, had I
stayed, I surely would have wentwith them.
There's no doubt about it.
The car pulls up.
(19:55):
I said, hey, fellas, take iteasy, have a safe tour.
Shook Patty Brown's hand.
They finished up whatever wemade, finish it off for
breakfast, got in the car and wepull out.
By the time I got to 6th Avenue, ladder three was right behind
me.
I made a right to the QueensMidtown tunnel.
They made a left to the WorldTrade Center.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
The plane literally had to fly right over where we
were the car.
I looked at the clock it was846.
I didn't see it, but literallythat was the timing.
So now I'm hearing fire truck,but it's Manhattan.
You expect to hear that it'scause fire and they're racing by
me and I'm like man, somethingmust be big going on.
I asked the car service guy,put the radio on and it was just
(20:36):
happening.
They just said we interruptthis program.
Apparently, a small plane lostcontrol and went into the World
Trade Center.
They didn't know much then,that's right.
No, they just were gettingintermittent reports of it and
nobody had a sure answer.
So then I'm hearing on theradio.
(20:56):
Then the lady says I don't knowif it was a small plane, but
the there's a imprint in theside of the building and smoke
coming out and it looks likeit's like six or seven floors
and I'm like small plane six orseven floors no way, that's
right you know, and plus it wasa beautiful day for a pilot to
lose, you know it wasn't cloudyor overcast day that I remember.
Yeah, how could?
A pilot loses bearings and andrun into the world trade?
So I but you know you're kindof dismissing it.
(21:18):
So we go into the queensmantown tunnel, lose the radio
signal when I come out.
We go through the toll.
I look to the right.
I see the second plane hit you.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You saw it hit.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, oh geez.
And then the radio reports noware coming in fast and furious
and they're like a second planehas hit.
Obviously this is not anaccident, this is intentional.
I think we're under attack.
All these radio things arecoming in like crazy.
So I asked the guy turn the cararound, get me back in.
He turned the car around, butthey.
(21:47):
So I asked the guy turn the cararound, get me back in.
He turned the car around, butthey said policeman, fireman,
nobody's getting through thetunnel, tunnels are closed.
Because they were worried thatthey bombed the tunnels or they
weren't letting anybody throughthe tunnel.
So I couldn't get back in.
So I drove back, went back outto Long Island where I was
staying, and when I walked inthe door the first tower was
collapsing.
And I go, I'm watchingthousands and thousands of
(22:11):
people and firemen get killedright before my eyes.
I can't believe this.
My brother, michael, happened tobe home.
He was a New York Cityfirefighter also.
He was discharged with a backinjury and he was in New York
with his wife and daughtervisiting and he called me right
away and I said Michael, I can'twatch this on TV anymore, I
have to go in, you know.
And he said do you have anyextra gear?
(22:34):
And I go yeah, I do.
And he still had his helmet.
So I said take your gear.
I got coat, boots, whateverelse we need, and we jumped on a
train.
My sister dropped us off at thetrain station and we went into
Manhattan.
We got out at Penn Station Imean people were, you know,
first responders were pouring infrom all over the beginning,
(22:54):
all over the city first, thenthe state, then regionally and
then nationally.
Some troopers from Albany in aHumvee saw us in our gear and
waved us over, took us in thisHumvee, got us as close as we
could get and then we walked therest of the way.
And I'll tell you when I turnedthe corner and saw that I
started bawling my eyes out.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Oh my.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
God, I mean just to think that.
You know, I'm looking atthousands of bodies right now
that are in there and the wave,massive wave of grief that's
going to come from this, myselfincluded and not even knowing
people that I work with yet, butI just knew that the level of
(23:35):
disaster is just.
I mean, it did that for thewhole world.
So we went in and did our stuff, you know, and it was so
difficult for the firefightersbecause our job is to save
people and there was nobody tosave.
If you were inside the collapsezone, you were gone.
If you were outside, you knowthere are dust and a few minor
injuries.
You know, even the medicalteams there were having a really
hard time because, again,they're their trauma teams like
(23:56):
mass units.
They were there to save peopleand put people back together,
but it was very not a lot ofminor injuries, it was either
gone or outside the drop, thedrop zone.
So the aftermath funerals, allof that, it just was a lot to
take in.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Oh my gosh, that's so traumatizing.
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Ptsd off the hook really, yeah, on a grand scale
nationally.
But I have to say theoutpouring of love, concern,
care and support from NewYorkers originally, and then
eventually the whole world wasso deeply touching Like we went
(24:40):
back to ladder five I had workedthere for a brief period to
clean up, cause it was prettyclose take showers and whatnot,
before we went back down toground zero maybe catch them
asleep and um, I mean, the guyjust pulled the curtain back and
there was just like trays oflasagna and garlic bread and
people.
They couldn't do enough for us.
You know, the most touchingthing, I think, is, you know, up
(25:03):
on the bulletin board therewere pictures.
I guess they faxed them or they, however they did it at that
time, was faxing.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It wasn't texting or anything like that it was fact
of firefighters from.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Antarctica to Poland, you know, with their hats,
helmets off, saluting us.
Oh my God, you know, pictureafter picture, I mean it was
touching and I have to say itdid help a little bit to
mitigate some of the grief thatwent on there.
But Ladder 12, I mean Ladder 3,where I was that morning, me
(25:40):
and my brother actually found wewere one of the first ones to
find the rig that rig, ladder 3,is in the lobby of the World
Trade Center, world Trade CenterMuseum right now, and I found I
said what happened to all theguys I was with that morning and
he goes, joe, none of them madeit.
Captain Brown and all thosefiremen were on the 44th floor.
(26:01):
In the days that followed wefound out that out of the 12
that were lost that morning thatwere all on TV with me waving
to their children live, out ofthe 12 that were lost that
morning that were all on TV withme waving to their children
live, out of the 12, they onlyfound two of the other 10 bodies
were gone in dust in the wind.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, so that was a lot to a lot to process and that
was a negative out of the blue.
But Ronzoni was great.
They upped their donation tothirty thousand dollars to the
widow and children's fund.
I went on to raise like seventyfive thousand dollars more with
book sales and stuff to um andI donated it directly to some of
(26:38):
the families of latter threewhere I was that morning and I
actually made a tape of ourmorning appearance because it
was live and it was the lastlive video of those firefighters
alive and delivered it to allthe families that they can have
some kind of a remembrance ofwhere they were and what they
were doing and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Wow, I got something I wanted to say, but I'm
thinking what I have to say islike fluff compared to what
you're saying.
You know, and I was going tosay that, my experience with
9-11, I was on a plane at loganairport wow, at 8 am I got on a
flight that was headed tochicago.
Wow, and I'm.
And I got.
(27:18):
I was good.
I was there to do work for thechristian science monitor which
I worked for at the time, andI'm sitting and I got bumped to
the first class because youcould do that with a lot of
frequent flyer miles.
And I'm sitting in first classand I've got my little earbud in
.
I'm listening to the radio,like when they told us to turn
off the radios.
You know, I sat there with myradio, I was cheating like I did
a lot, and I was listening toHoward Stern and he announces oh
(27:42):
my God, a plane just hit theWorld Trade Center Right, and I
went, whoa.
I got up out of my seat andwalked over to the pilot and
said hey, sir, I just heard onHoward Stern.
I know I'm not supposed to belistening, but a plane hit the
World Trade Center, he goesreally.
He said go sit down, sir, thankyou.
And this was an AmericanAirlines flight that I was on.
(28:03):
And then I come back and I satdown and then he says the second
one hit.
And I went to the back and Isat down, and then he says the
second one hits.
And I went to the cockpit and Isaid and he says we know, thank
you very much, please sit down.
And they're all getting allfreaked out.
And in about 20 minutes theysaid everybody has to deplane.
There's been a nationalgrounding and on the way out I
(28:25):
saw the stewardesses and thepilots all hugging each other
because they obviously knew thecrew, but that it hit.
There was one American Airlinesflight that hit.
As a matter of fact, there wasa flight that I took the week
before and I took every otherweek to go to LA.
It was a Los Angeles flight.
It left at 730.
And I knew that crew and I wasshocked, I was grief stricken.
(28:53):
And then I went outside the gateand I sat down and I said I got
to call my office and tell themI'm going to catch the next
flight or something.
This is what I think and I'mcrazy.
I called the office and they'resaying oh my God, we didn't
know what flight you were on.
You're alive, oh God.
I thought we might've been onthe LA flight, we didn't know.
No, I'm here, just get out ofthere.
And I said why?
I said you're not gonna goanywhere, get home.
And I got out of the airport andthat right after I left they
(29:15):
closed the airport.
They closed logan, yeah.
But I made it home and boy ohboy that and I thought it was
and I had trauma from that.
I can't even imagine the kindof trauma that you had to endure
because of this, so close tothis horrible event.
I mean, I'm amazed and actuallyquite moved to hear you talk
(29:41):
about the outpouring of love,because it makes me realize too
that in adversity and inhorrible things, oftentimes it
brings out the best in peopleyou know, well you know, for the
first responders and that's whythey call it post traumatic
stress disorder, because at themoment I and my brother had to
(30:02):
switch gears into rescue mode.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
We can't deal with body parts and things that we
saw.
You know, every once in a whileyou get like I did a lot of
construction work in my life andyou'd look around and I
remember saying to my brother,michael 110 stories Do you see a
toilet bowl anywhere?
Like there wasn't a toilet bowlto be seen, there wasn't a
(30:25):
conference table, everything waspulverized into small little
you know.
I mean toilet bowls must'vebeen in that building.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And to not see a toilet bowl or a seat or a van,
a sink, or you know.
I was walking through the dust,I tripped and I reached into
the dust.
I tripped on something.
I picked it up.
It was a little 10 pound chromedumbbell and it must've been,
it must've been a gym on one ofthe upper upper floors, right.
And now it's at the ground.
It's at ground level, oh boy,you know and then we heard later
(30:55):
on we heard all the I guess youwant to call it technical data
about it.
That it you know it came downin 11 seconds.
The people on the floor didn'teven.
I mean, if there's any grace init is that it was so
instantaneous that hopefullythey didn't feel too much.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
It was lights out, not set.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Lights out and, yeah, there was no like, not even
time for an oh crap.
You know, like, just like,what's going on and you know,
and there was all of that kindof thinking Post, like I said,
when you get home or you give achance to breathe, and even the
grief thing, and that's why itstarts to hit you later, Just
like in wartime.
I mean, if your friend getskilled right next to you, you
(31:34):
can't cry and say, oh my God,they're still shooting at you.
You have to survive it.
Right, it's later.
It's later when you are back tocivilian life or back to you
know, and that's the part thatyou know.
That's why I wanted to getcertified in it.
So we can fast forward thestory a little bit.
Yes, Brother, I know we weretalking about it the other day.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yes, your brother.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yep and a very handsome man, by the way.
Terrible shame, yeah.
And he in 2012, he committedsuicide, took his life Too much
for him, that stuff.
Well again everybody says youknow, was it nine 11?
Was it family issues?
Was it financially?
You know yes and no.
There's, and you know, peoplewho don't have a background in
(32:17):
behavioral health or anything.
So, usually it's.
The first question is why?
Well, they said, well, we justgot divorced.
Well, if that was true, theneverybody that gets divorced
would take their life.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Or he just got fired.
Well then, everybody gets fired.
Take their life.
It isn't.
And it's also how you processit.
And that doesn't mean andthat's the part that for the
survivors that's really hard yousay, well, was I stronger than
him?
I don't want to hear that I wasstronger than him, that I
didn't feel bad about 9-11 orfamily issues and stuff.
It's really how you process andthat's where the people who've
(33:06):
made it more firefighters andmilitary are dying from line of
duty suicide than are dying fromline of duty.
So at these nationalconventions, shouldn't that be
the emphasis to stop loss oflife.
At a national seminar, you knowfive firefighters getting
together.
(33:26):
What course are you going totake today?
Oh, there's forcible entry.
There's ventilation, entry andsearch.
There's roof rope rescues.
Which one are you taking?
Oh, I'm going to take thesuicide prevention.
They're like what?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Suicide prevention.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
So you know, I gave Vernon.
I gave it a lot of thought theother day like how can we appeal
to the powers that be to givethese seminars?
Well, when you take a forcibleentry class, that doesn't mean
every time you go out you'regoing to have to access a
forcible entry, knowledge thatyou've learned.
But you have it in your bankthat when you get to a situation
when you have to take a doorokay, I took this class, I know
(34:02):
how to do it.
So the firefighters and thepowers that be have to put that
in their mind.
You're not taking the suicidecourse because when you go back
to the fire, it's just all right, stand up.
Anybody thinking about takingsuicide?
No, you have that knowledge andyou have it in the bank because
you want to rescue not onlycivilians, but you want to
rescue firefighters.
But if more of them are takingtheir life, that's where we have
(34:22):
to put the emphasis on rescue.
So maybe the 25 year oldfirefighter that just got on
isn't thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Right, right, they're 25.
They live forever.
They're immortal.
They don't think in theirchurch.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Well, it does happen younger, but it does happen.
More of it is an old.
Statistically it's an olderperson who's experienced life a
little like you said, out of theblue, right Out of the blue a
divorce, a financial mishap.
You screw up at work and you'reembarrassed.
Now add all of these things up.
So now the firefighter who'sconcerned with his brother
firefighters says now he hasthis tool in his bag.
He says I took this suicidecourse so and so is starting to
(34:59):
show signs that life's comingapart for him.
I know, now I have the tool inmy, in my hard drive.
He says let's sit down and talkabout this a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
What are some of the things you could say that we can
.
We'll obviously share withpeople as they're watching this,
that they can use to noticethese.
What signs, what kind of signs,could you say you know?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
everybody asks that, but that's not a universal
answer.
Like you said, the voice isn'ta universal sign.
There are some things thatpeople have said like if they
start giving away all theirstuff my personal experience and
a lot of reading about it Ithink I sold you this one the
other day One of the survivaltechniques of people that work
(35:43):
in military stuff is they callit galozuma, meaning you're on
your way to the gallows and youcrack a joke just to get over
know it well, yeah so.
So my one of my, I rememberdistinctly, remember saying to
my brother, three months beforeit happened, when did you lose
your firehouse sense of humor?
And then they, when they starthitting you with, I call it the
(36:05):
year butts.
Yeah, but you don't understand.
I'm getting divorced and youknow my father doesn't talk to
me anymore.
We got a big argument Okay,yeah, but put it in the proper
perspective.
Is it really worth?
And at that moment that'swhat's terrible and this is how
I've kind of looked at it.
It can't be on your option listbecause you're getting divorced
(36:30):
.
All right, is it a wonderfulthing?
Of course not.
But sometime in the future youcould meet somebody else, or
maybe you go off on your ownsingle and live a great life and
take vacations and pursue yourhobbies, crafts and interests.
But it's when they startbringing it up as an option to
either financial, whateveryou're out of the blue.
Terrible thing is is it reallyworth taking your life over?
(36:51):
But if 10 other things wentwrong in your life and then your
transmission goes and they'vealready had this in their mind
as an option, you say, well, hetook his light, well, his
transmission went and the nextday blew his brains out.
Well, because his transmissionwent.
No, all the other stuff addedup cumulative and listen, by the
(37:13):
time you're 50, you definitelyhave had some financial stress.
You might have had relationshipstress, whether it's siblings,
family, spouse, um, maybe somemedical issues too.
I mean, everybody by the timeyou're 50 has had some
absolutely out of the blue,unexpected thing happen.
But and and it's how you'reprocessing it, but it's, I
(37:33):
believe, my opinion and a littlebit of training is that let's
say there's 20 different thingsthat can happen from this out of
the blue thing financial stress, you can make more money, you
could win a lottery, you could.
It's when they say, if none ofthat works out, you know, maybe
win a lottery you could.
It's when they say, if none ofthat works out, you know, maybe
this life isn't even worth it.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Were you going to offer that course yourself?
Did you have an idea to offer?
No, I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I would like to do that, and I'm working with a
great organization calledffbhaorg, jeff Dill.
He's a retired Palatine captainand he, I want to say he, saved
my life, because it's not thatI was contemplating taking my
life, but I was at such a lowafter my brother passed away I
didn't think I was going tosurvive another day, just from
grief.
I believe you and he you knowhe got ahold of me.
(38:19):
I went up to Chicago to be withyou know, meet with him and talk
to him and stuff like that, andI mean he really put me on the
right track to dealing with thegrief and stuff like that.
So I know what you're asking isyou're in a firehouse or police
station or wherever you aremilitary and you're sitting with
a bunch.
You can kind of see whensomebody's starting to separate
themselves a little bit, actinga little off, okay, and as a
(38:41):
confidant or best.
I might not be his best friend,but he definitely has somebody
that he confides in.
I might not be his best friend,but he definitely has somebody
that he confides in Spouse,mother, uncle, friend, say
listen who do you have in your?
life that you can trust, thatyou can share stuff with.
You know, oh well, yeah,everybody sucks.
Everybody at work sucks,everybody, you know.
(39:03):
But my uncle is one of my.
You call the uncle and you saylisten, I work with him, I'm a
little concerned, and I'mconcerned because I've lost
somebody like this.
Now, ask him up front.
Listen, I know things aren'tgoing great in your life.
You know they could get better,they could get worse, I don't
(39:25):
know, but we have to keep thisin perspective.
Have you considered, consideredas an option like this?
Life isn't worth it.
I I wouldn't even say have youconsidered suicide, because that
it really puts people off rightyou know like oh no, I wouldn't
dothat oh, I would never.
What are you kidding me?
I would never do that.
I got a daughter, I got myfamily.
Uh, right, so I I say a moregentle approach would be to say
(39:49):
are you starting to think thatthis life really isn't worth it?
It opens the door a little bitmore gently and he goes.
You better do.
After my divorce, after I lostmy house, the chief came down on
me because of something I didat work.
And then they're talking aboutfiring me.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I have a question Do you think that it would be
helpful to recommend having sortof like a therapist assigned to
each person?
Speaker 2 (40:16):
as the firehouse.
Yeah, each person in thefirehouse.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well to me it sounds like there are a lot of emotions
that you have to put aside togo through these intense
experiences, and emotions don'tjust go away.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I know what you're saying, but as soon as you
mentioned the word therapist-and being in that environment,
with the macho level beingexponential.
so put it to them, because mybrother, believe me, he was a
loving, caring individual.
He had a daughter and a wife.
But you know if and me, and ifhe would have said well, and if
(40:59):
I would have said to him, do youknow what this is going to do
to you?
Plus, you put the guilt trip onthem, their fellow firefighters
.
It's kind of hard for them tosay I don't care about them.
At the moment it happens, I dobelieve that that they don't.
They just shut, everybody shutsout, and I have accomplished
this mission and I'm out of thislife.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, because they're just so full of pressure.
Everything is just pressure,pressure, pressure, building,
building, building.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
And this is the relief.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
You know, that's why I thought, when you said the
thing about humor, I thinkthat's a pretty solid thing to
look for people lacking humor,because that pressure building
that Jackie just said, that'swhat humor does.
It kind of it's a steam valve,lets out a little pressure.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
You know what I mean Right, and that's if you want to
call it a sign.
That's one of the signs.
I see that they don't.
I think it's a pretty clear one.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
You know someone's getting no humor at all,
especially when you're workingas a first responder.
You know that gallows humorthat we talked about.
It's necessary in thatenvironment, because how do you
deal with it day after day?
I mean, I've myself spent alittle time in law enforcement
as a PI and I also knew a lot offiremen and we'd hang out at a
(42:15):
bar after the show, after theday and everybody's
commiserating and the thingsthey have to deal with every day
and they're joking abouthorrible things because they
have to.
You've got to let it out.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Right For civilians.
The best example I could say asan example is remember the TV
show MASH yes With Alan Alda.
Oh yeah, loved it, and Radarand all that.
Well, here they are cuttingopen 18-year-old kids every day.
Yeah, and they had the bestsense of humor going, but
eventually in that show Hawkeye,which is Alan Alda he ended up
(42:51):
having a nervous breakdown atthe end.
I remember Because that humorcan only last so long.
It's only so, but it does getyou through the moment.
But that's why you said youhave to dig a little bit deeper
and say listen, I get youlaughing this off.
Your financial issues, divorce,whatever it is, I get you
laughing this off.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
But on a deeper level , I'm sure this is starting to
get to you you know what I thinkwhen I, when I hear you talking
, what just occurs to me is thatyou had whatever your
predisposition to do it, youwere wired to figure out a way
forward.
Like when things were bad, youthought like you want to pay it
forward.
Even now, that's what your lifeis.
(43:31):
You like to pay it forward you.
That's why you did the, thatburn camp for kids, right, and
you do ptsd counseling for firstresponders and people like that
, right?
Yes, so I mean that is a way topay it forward.
So I think that's something.
Maybe that's a great thing toshow people.
I think we're showing them nowthroughout the blue of this
(43:52):
podcast.
It's about showing how you,joseph Bonanno, was able to turn
what was unbelievable, horribletrauma, ptsd off the hook.
I mean off off the shot.
Something beyond.
I mean I know my dad had ptsdand he had seen he was on grave
registration in korea, so he wasdoing the same thing like mash
(44:15):
with bodies all day long.
He came home, he was in such,he had such ptsd.
It was ridiculous, but that'snot even as bad as your
situation.
That happened in one day oh myGod, overwhelming.
And that's what I think it iswith all first responders.
They have to face this stuffand it's just boom, there it is.
And when you have to deal withthat on a daily basis, I mean
(44:38):
you need to have an escape plan.
You kind of do, and you need to.
If they're not wired to thinkof four in terms of you like you
to find a way to pay it forwardthat I can do something with
this negative stuff that helpspeople.
Now why do you think you didthat?
I like I'm curious.
I think anybody thatunderstands the out of the blue
(44:58):
idea is curious.
How will you?
Speaker 3 (45:01):
tell.
I would love, I would love tosay to you, I would love to say
to you that I'm a warriorpersonality and I'll take it and
I could figure it out, um, butlisten, it's true though you are
, I've had my, I've had myterribly weak moments, believe
me.
Um, in 1980, 1981, uh, I wasonly on the fire department a
(45:24):
year and a half.
My mother fell asleep with acigarette.
She had an alcohol problem.
She was burned 55% of her body.
They helicoptered her to NassauCounty Burn Center.
She lived for a week and shedied from burns.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
So I had that on my thing and I'll be perfectly
honest with you, I don't mindsharing this with your audience.
At that time, believe me, itwas on my option list.
I'm like, how am I gonna?
I'm a firefighter, I was atwork and my mother gets caught
in a fire and and and winds updying a week later.
And now, now I got to continuemy rest of my that's how I start
(46:05):
my career running into burningbuildings to save people.
And I couldn't even save my ownmother.
I was starting to think of itthat way and then I said to
myself you know what?
I don't know, maybe because I'ma planner.
I was like you know what?
I don't want to leave thisearth and not have other people
make out from it.
So I go I'm in the perfect jobfor suicide, because I could
(46:26):
just stay longer than I shouldin a building and get killed.
And I go look, I'll look like ahero died in the line of duty.
Nobody will ever know that itwas suicide and my family is
going to get my pension, myeverything else.
And, believe me, that's how Ikind of know, because it was
option 20.
But I had just bought a houseright just before my mother died
(46:49):
we had some issues with myfather and stuff and my brother,
michael, and my sister actuallymoved away from my father.
He remarried.
They didn't get along with thewife.
They moved in with me.
So now I had a little bit of aresponsibility.
So I said, wow, I can't.
But believe me, it stayed in mybrain for a good few years
after that and I don't know.
I never got to the point thatpeople who have actually done
(47:11):
this is because it didn't moveup to where this is I am doing
it.
It just became.
If I'm at work and the rightsituation arises and we talked
about this the other day, therehave been several people who
have attempted suicide and woundup living, and when they talked
to them afterwards, all of thepeople said the same exact thing
(47:34):
.
The minute I did it, like theminute I jumped off the bridge,
I said this is the stupidestthing I've ever done.
How could I have done this?
Speaker 2 (47:43):
The reality hit them, but they hit theest thing I've
ever done.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
How could I have done this?
The reality hit them, but theyhit the water and they didn't
die.
Somebody rescued them andthey're like what was I thinking
?
And that's the unbelievablestatistic Almost 100% of them
never tried it again.
It's not like they tried.
They were unsuccessful at it.
A year later they took theirlife again.
Nope, they never attempted itagain, ever.
That's amazing they didn'trealize I lost my mind.
(48:06):
And, believe me, if somebodycould have tackled my brother
and held him down through thatterrible period before he jumped
off a bridge, if somebody couldhave tackled him and held him
on the ground until that momentpassed, I think he would still
be with us.
And it's the same thing.
They call it self-murder, soit's the same thing.
(48:26):
When somebody murders somebody,you know somebody's getting an
argument with his spouse andover something inconsequential,
and they and you know they pickup a baseball bat and beat him
to death, right.
And then are they, at themoment that that rage is going
on, they thinking I'm going togo to prison, my name's going to
be in the paper, I got a court,I just like gave up everything.
(48:48):
No, the rage, you just tookover.
So the rage against themselvesit's the term.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
It's really temporary insanity temporary insanity.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
So if you can get them through that.
So that's why, before thetemporary insanity occurs, even
in, even in the case of a murder, you say oh, you know, your
wife just took you to court,she's taken everything from you.
You know I could kill her.
You can't even put that in yourvocabulary.
So if I'm given a class or aclinic, to firefighter's first
response I say I don't even wantto hear that, it's on your
(49:16):
option list, I don't want tohear it's option 50.
If you know, if I loseeverything, I'm no it and for me
, luckily, the option it was onmy.
That's how I know it put it onmy option list.
How am I going to live the restof my life?
Am I ever going to be happyagain?
I lost my mother.
I watched my mother die fromburns in front of me.
I mean, how am I ever gonna,you know?
(49:36):
And then 9-11 came and the samething.
And then my brother's suicide,which damn near killed me from
the grief.
But I didn't think, think tomyself, this life isn't worth it
.
I just said, you know what,we're all going to leave this
life sooner or later anyway.
And I've said that to him threemonths before.
We're going to end this lifesooner or later.
What's the rush?
(49:57):
Right, exactly, it's shortenough actually yes, and you
don't know.
Like you said, out of the blue,perfect name for your thing.
So why do we, as human beings,always project out of the blue
terrible things?
It's always projection towardsthe negative.
You know, you get a little lumpon your shoulder.
Oh, it's cancer, I'm gonna bedone, I'm gonna die.
Yep, well, it might be just.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
You know, it's just a mark on your shoulders not
cancer.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
And you know we do this all the time and, and one
time I gave a seminar, Ireferenced this funny story.
Of course, you're old enough,like me, to remember the
honeymoon, is it Ralph Cramden,of course.
What a fabulous actor he was.
Yes, and I referenced thisstory because here's an example
of getting in trouble andthinking it's something.
So Ralph and Ed are sitting atthe table in their little
apartment and he says I just gota letter from the IRS.
(50:42):
I can't believe it.
I'm getting audited, oh my God.
I took.
I was driving the bus that dayand Mrs McGillicuddy gave me a
cake and I never reported it, ohmy God, plus the penalties and
the fees and he was drivinghimself crazy and not to the
point of suicide.
But he was actually saying, ohmy God, I'm going to lose the
apartment, I'll lose the house,alice is going to leave me
because I, you know, and he goesto the IRS.
(51:03):
He's shaking.
You know the way he acted.
He's shaking like a leaf beforehe goes in.
Then he goes.
I'm going to, I'm going to, I'mgoing to, I'm going to he goes
into the IRS guy like a mess.
He made himself miserable for 24hours.
And he goes in and he goes, MrCramden, and he goes.
Listen, I know the cake fromMrs McCulloch, honey.
I never reported it and it wasprobably a $3 cake, you know.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
And he goes no.
Speaker 3 (51:26):
He goes.
Well, what's the problem?
He goes.
Mr Cramden, you never signedyour report, you never signed
your return and that's all itwas.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
You know, joseph, your story is inspirational.
I mean, you really have takensome absolute traumas.
You know the worst possible outof the blue things and you've
had some beautiful good ones too, but you were able to like use
them actually to propel you intodoing what you're doing now
(52:00):
powerfully good things,especially that burn clinic you
did with the children.
Wow, I mean that's amazing.
You did that probably in yourmother's name.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
I did.
Actually, it's the reason I didit.
Yes, I just.
I did a new cookbook calledAmerican Firehouse Cuisine.
It's available on Amazon orthrough me.
You can go to my website,wwwamericanfirehousecuisinecom.
I did it for the 20-yearanniversary of 9-11.
There's a bread pudding recipein there Well, firehouse bread
pudding that I'd put up againstBobby Flay or any of the top
chefs that are out there, andI'm doing a firehouse cooking
(52:34):
podcast right now.
I built a studio here in myhome.
Oh wonderful.
I slide down the pole every dayto do the show that's also on
the website so cool Good idea.
That's on the website too, soI'm kind of trying to develop
that thing and more of it is outthere to your audience.
Any chiefs, first responders,police officers, military that
are thinking about doing aseminar, I'm available to do
(52:54):
those seminars.
I have a background in trainingin it.
Now who better to do it thansomebody that's experienced
suicide personally with a firstresponder and is also have a
background in it?
Let me do one more.
Can I get one more shout outfor my nieces?
absolutely I just want to give ashout out to my brother-in-law,
my sister donna, and my twoamazing, strong, handsome
(53:17):
nephews, nick and jake, and mybeautiful uh niece jessica and
michael and michael's daughteris Isabel and his wife Barbara.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
That's so wonderful.
I'm so wonderful, so gratefulfor you coming with us today,
Joe.
I mean, this has been a reallyno thank you.
Enlightening, moving, powerfulepisode.
I really am grateful, man, youreally brought a lot to us.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
I'm grateful, too, for having me on.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
I mean, I cannot really say my articulated enough
just thank you so much.
That's about it.
I I'm at a loss for words,that's.
That's all I need.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
That's fun and uh, thank you very much for joining
us.
Jackie, thank you for my verymuch and um thank you, thank you
for joining us on thisamazingly powerful episode of
Out of the Blue with Joe Bonanno, a retired fireman and now
incredible podcaster, as well asputting so much into his life
to pay it forward.
Thank you again for joining us.
(54:14):
This is Vernon West, jackieWest and Joe Bonanno, and this
has been Out of the Blue, thepodcast Out of the Blue, the
podcast Hosted by me, vernonWest, co-hosted by Jacqueline
(54:36):
West, edited by Joe Gallo, musicand logo by Vernon West III.
Have an Out of the Blue storyof your own you'd like to share?
Reach us at info atoutoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
Subscribe to Out of the Blue onApple Podcasts, spotify or
wherever you get your podcasts,and on our website,
(54:59):
outoftheblue-thepodcastorg.
You can also check us out onPatreon for exclusive content.
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