October 1, 2023 • 62 mins
Ever wished there was more inclusivity in the fashion world? Stephanie Thomas, our remarkable guest for today's show, is making this dream a reality. Born with a disability, she's transformed her personal challenges into a mission aimed at changing the fashion industry. Listen in as we peel back the layers on her personal journey, her battle against internalized ableism, and her advice to young people with disabilities on establishing their self-worth.
Stephanie guides us through her path as an entrepreneur in the fashion sector. She shares her perspective on the industry's slow response to inclusivity and her experiences on adaptive clothing projects. We wade into the importance of representation and understanding the specific needs of people with disabilities when designing clothes. Join us as we unearth how fashion can serve as a confidence booster, and why it's crucial to see more voices with lived experiences in the fashion industry.
Finally, we expand the conversation by touching on disability representation in the Black community. We discuss the importance of grassroots initiatives and including people with disabilities in discussions about entrepreneurship and Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DEI). Stephanie generously shares her passion for advocacy, intersectionality, and her mission to shift culture. This captivating conversation is both empowering and enlightening, providing valuable insights about self-definition and the power of creating your own reality. Listen now, and be part of this transformative journey.
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Thank you for tuning in, and see you in the next episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
In a world where success often steals the
limelight, the stories thattruly inspire, that truly matter
, are left behind in the shadows.
I'm your host, Wesley Hamilton.
Welcome to the Out of theShadows podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
My faith dictates to me that this is the way that I
was supposed to be, because thisis who I am.
This is the way I came, and Icame as a person born like this
with the courage to speak up andadvocate for myself.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yo, what's up everybody.
This is Wesley Hamilton.
This is another episode of theOut of the Shadows podcast.
I want to welcome my guest, anextraordinary individual,
someone that I truly believe hasemerged from the shadows, and I
think that her story should bereally represented anywhere.
(01:00):
So our guest today is StephanieThomas.
She was born with a disability,but that's never stopped her.
She used her challenges as adriving force behind her mission
to change the fashion world.
I'm thrilled to introduceStephanie.
She's a mastermind behind theaward-winning fashion and
(01:22):
styling system that she createdaccessible, smart and
fashionable.
She has found a curatable,which is an amazing platform,
and she will share more aboutthat soon.
Steph is just a beautiful humanbeing and if you don't know who
she is, you're definitely goingto know who she is today.
(01:42):
I'm honored to bring her on theshow and truly share what she's
doing in the work field, in heradvocacy and just in life.
So, Stephanie, welcome to theshow.
I appreciate you coming.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh, thank you for having me, Wesley.
Thank you for the very kindintroduction.
I really appreciate it.
It was all true, not true?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Absolutely no.
So we can dive right in, steph,and just get right into your
story.
I know I try not to say a lotwhen it comes to the
introduction, but also letpeople know who we're having on
the platform.
So if you could just share, tostart off with is your personal
(02:28):
journey and how it's influencedyou and your career and fashion.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So actually I was born with adisability and because I was
born at a time where disabilitystill wasn't a thing that people
talked about, I never reallyidentified as a person with a
disability because I didn't feellike I had the right to and to
just make a long story short,without trauma and all of that
unnecessary stuff.
(02:53):
I never understood that.
Oh, my grandmother would say,oh, you're so clumsy, not
realizing that they literallyhad to take bones from my body
to create toes.
I mean, today I still go to thepodiatrist and no matter who I
see, they're like how are youwalking without prosthetics or
(03:13):
without, like they are wonderinghow I'm walking?
I do have a background a veryminimal background and like
modern and African dance, I'vealways loved to move karate,
things like that, anything thatkept me moving and I grew up
around boys so that kept merunning after go-karts and
balling and hurting myself.
(03:34):
I think I probably unconsciouslylearned how to ambulate
independently.
And I also have dexteritychallenges, meaning I have one
thumb on my right hand and thenI often make sure that I don't
overuse my left hand becausepeople always go oh, it's just a
thumb missing or it's justsomething like that and, if I
(03:55):
can just say this really quick,I think, being born this way and
existing in the world this way,I have had to work through a
lot of internalized ableism.
My advocacy has actually helpedheal me, because I felt so
ashamed.
I felt like I couldn't talkabout it to my mom, because
mothers who have children withdisabilities that are born that
(04:17):
way carry a lot of guilt andI've never wanted my mom to feel
guilty because my faithdictates to me that this is the
way that I was supposed to be,because this is who I am.
This is the way I came, and Icame as a person born like this,
with the courage to speak upand advocate for myself.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think when we're talkingabout disability and a lot of
conversations and of coursethat's just part of your story
but I appreciate that's whatbrought you into the work that
you do and really into who youare you sometimes don't hear the
(04:55):
perspective of someone that wasborn and kind of what you had
to deal with for yourself, basedon how you were brought up, and
so just being able to sharethat, I hope that shares like to
individuals that do havechildren with disabilities to
understand what that looks like.
And before we even go anyfurther, like what advice are
(05:17):
things that you would suggestwhen there are youth that are
born with disabilities to kindof give them that confidence and
power?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Okay, so I need to put on my glasses.
Glasses, can I see you?
You blurry.
Okay, now I can see you.
I was trying not to have on ahat and glasses.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's obvious that you look good.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Thank you.
If you are someone that's, I'llstart with the children or the
young adults.
If you're someone born with adisability, you get to define
yourself.
Don't let people who are notdisabled tell you you're not
disabled enough and then don'tlet the disability community
tell you who you are.
As a black woman with adisability, oftentimes I deal
with you, know someone basicallysaying to me if you were a
(06:00):
wheelchair user, it would beeasier for me to deal with you
and Wes will get into thisduring the conversation because
it's really impacted myself-esteem, my personal life,
when you happen in saying you'repretty but your feet are f'd up
and actually my feet are quitenice.
I just don't have all my toes.
You know I do pedicures.
(06:20):
It's not messed up and I'musing humor to help you see that
who you are is who you are andyou teach people how to treat
you.
You teach people how you showup in the world because they're
going to look at you.
People have always seen me asgreater than I saw myself, so I
look for a lot of validation inthe eyes of other people to
(06:42):
establish or identify my ownself-worth, and I would just
warn against that.
I would say you have to definewho you are, what you love to do
.
Don't let anything stop you.
I'm not talking about someweird, you know, disability I'm
going to overcome.
I'm talking about just do youand don't let either group
(07:03):
define who you are, because thatanyone can become a person with
a disability at any moment.
And I always say to thosepeople you need to create the
world you would want to live inif you ever became that person.
That's disabled and what's realquick.
I'm just going to speak to theparents and this is with all due
respect.
Their story is not your story.
(07:25):
To prevent them from telling, Ineed you to step back.
I need you to understand thatit's not a slide on you, it's
not a diss on you.
Stop taking their life andmaking it so personal about you.
Work through your own ableism.
Work through it together withyour child, because when you
take away that child's abilityto tell their own story and to
(07:48):
fully identify as a person witha disability, you harm them.
You harm their ability to showup in the world.
You make them more dependent onthe approval of others.
Just action, and I know youlove us saying this to parents,
you know, but love us enough tolet us define ourselves.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, sometimes people got to hear that hard
truth, you know, and it'snothing against what you think
is right, but it's definitelyimportant to help to pursue and
persuade us, to say, your childto be able to identify
themselves and define who theywant to be.
You know, I appreciate yousharing at least the journey of
(08:33):
your upbringing in the best way,without really trying to dump
trauma, as you shared, and thenalso allowing that advice to be
poured out first before wereally get into your story,
because I think, through aperson that advocates
organically right, like, we justwant to make sure that those
messages are shared for thosethat are listening or those that
(08:56):
are tapping on their own.
On a lighter note, I know thatyou've worn a lot of hats and
you do a lot of things, eventoday, and a lot of people
probably don't know necessarilyeverything that you do, but what
(09:16):
most people do familiarizethemselves with is your fashion
system and being a fashionstylist, and of course, we throw
a disability on top of thatbecause you do make most of the
individuals you will all of them, but I would say most of the
community that you do work withreally nice and fly, and I'm
(09:37):
excited to even use yourservices for some of my upcoming
work, as we talked about.
But can you explain, outside ofjust really breaking down all
the hats you wear and the onesthat you've left, what pushed
you into not only creating thestyling system but making that
your main purpose, to reallypursue and try to make
(10:01):
connections so that fashion isaccessible for everybody?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really great question.
So my journey started incollege.
It spans three decades.
Here's how the decades arebroke down from a macro, not
micro macro.
The first decade was melearning what there are no great
looking clothing for peoplewith disabilities.
I couldn't believe it.
I was a part of the Miss Americapageant system to earn
(10:27):
scholarship money.
It's nothing I ever dreamt ofdoing.
Someone asked me to do it and Iwas like, okay, cool, I'll do
it.
Prior to that fun fact, I was aprofessional cheerleader
captain for the Chicago lovablesduring the Jordan era.
This was pre-Jordan winning, sodon't get real excited.
I came in the same year.
Scotty Pippin came in and theywere still kind of getting their
(10:52):
wings, but that was some greatbasketball.
So I left the court and went tocollege on a vocal scholarship.
So most people that that's afun fact.
Also, I sing.
I sing all of my life.
People that knew me growing upknew me as someone that sang the
national anthem like I singsing, you know I don't anymore
(11:12):
but I did no, no, no, steph, I'malready taking a mental note to
go.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
you know like.
No, no, steph sings girl.
Yeah, we got you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So to go from the court to the stage, I was kind
of already prepped, because Icheered for the Bulls
professionally for two years, soI had been in settings with a
lot of different people.
I had a conviction when I foundout, you know, that things
weren't the way they should be,in my opinion, for the disabled,
and I started two years afterthe ADA was passed, you know.
(11:47):
So it was still very new.
And decade two, I startedreaching out to people in the
fashion industry after watchingthis episode of the Oprah
Winfrey show.
Oprah came on and was likewe're having a fashion show for
everyone.
I was super excited.
I was a TV reporter at the time.
I went into work early so Icould get off in time and
(12:09):
actually watch this, and theyhad everyone, basically, but
people with disabilities.
At that time you could pick upthe phone and call the fashion
labels.
You know the brands and stuffand so I did.
They strung me along for a year.
Some flew me out, gave meclothes, patted me on the head
and sent me on my way.
That's decade two and that'swhen I developed my disability
(12:30):
fashion styling systemaccessible, smart, fashionable,
accessible, easy to put on andtake off, smart, smart for your
health and fashionable thewearer loves it.
And then decade three.
I've had that experience mostlyin LA.
I sold my home on the EastCoast.
I moved here.
(12:50):
I knew I wanted to make adifference because I figured one
Getty image could do more thanone way, more than I was doing,
you know, offline and helpingpeople.
So I did that.
But what really excites meabout where I'm at which we'll
talk about a little later is nowI'm hyper-focused on solving
two problems within thecommunity, because Wes, I think
(13:13):
we have this chasm and I knowyou can speak to this between
dressing and living non-disabledand then living disabled.
That transition is like goingfrom first-class citizen to
second, third or fourth-classcitizen if you let people do it
to you.
And we want to help close thatchasm, specifically when it
(13:35):
comes to simplifying shoppingand de-stressing dressing for
the disabled, the chronicallyill, as well as those who are
just simply injured.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
That's good.
That's good and I appreciateyou sharing just that journey
and how you broke it down.
You can tell that you've had toget that together.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I saw your eyes when I said three decades.
You were like oh no, I'm sorry,I had some very kind people
like wrapping up.
So, yes, we got into a nicelittle bow for you.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
No, but three decades seems like a lot of time.
It even allows me to reflect onthe work that I'm doing and
understand that when you'retrying to change things in the
world, it takes time andregardless of how you perfect it
, one year or one month youstill find yourself having to
(14:34):
spend more time into learningand advancing it.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I can only get into that West about the journey of
being an entrepreneur.
I feel like it's romanticizedonline a lot and my journey has
taught me I'm now the type ofCEO I wanna be and I think I've
always been that way.
But I was strictly justdefining success by money how
(15:03):
much cash flow I had, notintegrity, not even making
people angry, because sometimesif you're making the right
people angry, that means you'redoing the right thing.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, I know you can relate tothat.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, absolutely, and we definitely tap into that
because I think entrepreneurship, regardless, is a good topic to
talk about, but for twoindividuals that do have
disabilities, I think that isimportant to share.
I do see that there's a lack ofconversation around
entrepreneurship for people withdisability and that go go go
(15:42):
mentality it really doesn'tspeak to people that can't go,
go go.
But there should be storiesthat are shaped around and
allowing people to understandwhat time looks like.
Patience, like you said, likeprojecting, the way you see
success and opportunity as afounder, as a CEO.
So let's get into that, butbefore we cover, like, the
(16:07):
entrepreneurship side because Iwill dig into the other side of
what people don't know so much,because that's the real
importance of this podcast.
But I do wanna ask, because wewere talking about the fashion
system and definitely took threedecades to get to where you are
(16:28):
now what do you feel has beenthe response from the fashion
industry when it comes toinclusivity in accessible
fashion in 2023?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, I think that's a really great question, I would
have to take you back to the1990s, the 1980s.
There was legislation passedprior to the ADA, which really
got a lot of companies to movingand doing different things.
I'll give you an example Mostpeople don't know that Nordstrom
has been advertising usingmodels with disabilities since
(17:01):
1991.
So this is nothing new.
And you know what I think ishappening in 2030?
I think is happening in 2023,even though there was a lot kind
of happening below the surfacein the 90s and the early 2000s,
but it was below the surface.
People didn't really wanna seeor hear from us.
(17:23):
I think now that DE&I is athing thing.
Well, it's not becoming a thingas much after 2020, it seems,
but they're firing all theirDE&I, but it was a thing.
So I feel like the fashionindustry is a microcosm of
society, meaning that society isbrilliant at presenting this
(17:45):
illusion of inclusion, but it'sperformative and it's not
because people want it to beperformative.
I wanna be really clear.
There are some people in thefashion industry that want to
make a real difference, thatwant to do more, but their hands
are tied by their C-suite.
People that don't see the valuein putting money behind it If
(18:06):
someone else contacts me andsays I got $200 for you to give
me your opinion.
I just don't know.
I'm gonna throw my hat at them.
It's like that's not respectful.
You would never tell acisgender white male who's been
in a space for 30 years.
You have $200 for their insight.
(18:27):
So I think that the fashionindustry is moving in the right
direction Too slow for me.
I'm gonna keep it real, which iswhy I'm excited about our new
curation product with curatable.
But I think we're going in theright direction, but it's never
going.
I'm gonna just be honest andthis is not what people are
gonna wanna hear.
The CFDA is now partnering withGAMMIT.
(18:49):
They're doing some good things.
More Horton has done excellentthings with design.
There's so many wonderfulpeople, but until we start to
deal with the fact that peoplesee us as viable fashion
customers, until peopleunderstand that we are human and
see our humanity, designing adifferent piece of clothing or
(19:16):
curating clothing is not goingto change attitudes.
And writing for Grease Barrierattitude and no barriers.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
That's so true.
I mean, I've had my fair sharewith the adaptive clothing, I've
done fashion shows andeverything and, like you said,
it is definitely moving slowerthan what it should.
But I think the response hasbeen, you know, like you said,
it's being good to bringawareness, to create products
and have all these differentcompanies, from JC Penney's to
(19:48):
Tommy Hill, figure, you know,having some type of clothing
within their system.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
But that's what I'm talking about JC Penney.
They 100 years ago, about 100years ago, when was it?
Jc Penney has been aroundforever, right, but in the 1950s
and the 1960s they actually hada whole magazine with clothing
design disabilities.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Okay, so you said in the 19, right.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Like the 19, let's just say 1950s and 60s.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
All right.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But they don't even really talk about it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
No, they don't, you know, and we're just noting that
.
So in the 1950s, before all ofthis extra awareness came in and
media started to become larger,there were platforms like JC
Penney's that did haveadvertisement that shared
disabled bodies.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, and they did it through catalogs mostly.
And I'm not.
I'm not the disability fashionhistorian, catherine Hitchcock
is coming out with an amazingbook.
It may already be out.
She covers a lot of that.
But the functional fashionmovement in the 1960s had over
what 30 major like TommyHillfigure type major designers
(21:09):
at the time that were a part ofit, but it never caught fire.
It lit a match but it nevercaught fire, and that's because
they're trying to shift and sellclothing without shifting the
culture.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
No, that's very true.
I mean, again, like what I wasgoing to share about my journey
with adaptive clothing is,frankly, I don't wear it as much
and it's because I mean I comefrom you know, I didn't just I
guess I don't know, I wasn'traised, I didn't have my
disability like when I wasyounger, and what I'm trying to
(21:44):
get to is when, or at least frommy perspective, is that
individuals that have been bornwith disabilities have become
more custom to an accessibleclothing because, one, they've
dealt with the complicationsmore and two, once that
innovation comes out is reallyspeaking to you and adults that
(22:08):
you know might have some type oflimitations that really don't
get them out.
That's kind of how I felt whenit first came out and I started
getting products.
And then when I when I you know, of course I tapped into the
products, but I being so muchinto fashion, that's what I'm
getting to.
I feel like most people in kidsand youth and again, you get
(22:32):
every now and then you'll see astylish kid and some nice
threads and they have adisability right but a lot of
their perspective is thatthere's definitely not enough
comfortable clothes.
So people wear comfortableclothes all the time, especially
wheelchair users, and so whatI'm trying to get to is that I
don't see a lot of people comingup with their disabilities and
(22:56):
being able to be a part of thefashion industry, right, yeah,
so like street wear, you know,when, uh, young GZ had his line
I'm just really speaking fromall these different lines that
even though I wore them as ateenager, I really couldn't have
seen it.
I could have, but it wasn't likeit was introduced to
individuals with disabilities.
(23:16):
So, for me to get into adaptiveclothing, I'm thinking to
myself, like, are these jeansgoing to be, you know, a
material like my frame jeans?
Or is these, you know, is thisshirt going to really speak to
me?
And what I find is that thereare certain items that speak to
certain ability levels.
(23:36):
Everything isn't, you know,accustomed to everybody.
And so say, for instance, I dida fashion show and I know I'm
like I went around that in a way, still because, you know,
You're trying to help us say itbecause I think you think I use
it all the time.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
No, no, no, no, not at all, that's like don't, don't
feel bad about me, I'm notsugarcoating it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Trust me, I was just trying to get to this point.
I did a fashion show one timeand you know, and it was, I was
modeling for a top brand andthey was like you know, you're
the wheelchair model, so ofcourse in my mind you have
clothing for wheelchair users.
I'm going to go ahead, putthese clothes on.
The jeans were, or the short.
(24:20):
The jeans were, they say theywere for wheelchair users, but
they didn't really have like thehigh back or low front, they
just kind of had the elastic or,you know, the band.
Anyway, I wore the pants, I worethe shirt.
The shirt had the magneticclosure at the top, but for me
it's not something that I need.
So, while I'm getting to it,even though I had a whole outfit
(24:42):
on that was adaptive clothing,there was only probably one item
that actually served me well,and they gave me a jacket.
And this is where I had, like,the disconnect.
They gave me this jacket to puton.
They all started to pin it upand do all these things because
it was a long, like trench coatkind of thing.
We might not look good.
But after most fashion shows,if people don't know, most
(25:05):
brands like you either take theclothes or they bring or they
send them to you.
So in my mind I'm like, allright, cool, I know this was
bulky during the fashion show,but y'all don't send this jacket
to me, it's going to betailored and cropped for me.
No, it was sent to me as a longtrench coat, like the same,
like they didn't even keep, likethe nothing.
(25:26):
So to me it was dishearteningto know that I just represented
this brand and I justrepresented these clothes that
look like it was serving mycommunity.
But in reality, unless I cameout of pocket to make it
actually speak and compliment mybody, it was going to sit in my
closet and what I find is thatmost people go and grab these
(25:49):
clothes thinking that they'reserving or complimenting, and
then once you get it, you'relike this doesn't even work for
me.
My experience to it was justwhere I truly didn't feel good
about what it was looking andhow it was being received by the
disabled community because ofwho they see in it, like oh, wes
(26:11):
wearing that, I can go buy that, I can go do this right, and
then reality is like you can'teven put these on or you can't
wear it.
It looked good but in realitythe everyday movement within
these clothes would becomplicated.
And again, I'm just sharingthat.
I'm not saying that everybody'sgonna go put on a big long
trench coat.
What I'm saying is these arepeople that are in the industry,
(26:35):
that are trying to servedisabled bodies and they can't
even do it right.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Well, here's the thing that I love about what you
said when I was working withEcom, that one wasn't me, that
one wasn't me, was it?
I'm like, I'm close downeverything, but working in Ecom,
which is e-commerce, someonewas like oh, this is just a
(27:04):
photo shoot, just do it.
Basically, and their maincomplaint about me was that I'm
styled, I'm worried aboutstyling the models as if it was
personal styling.
And that's the exact feedback Igave, and I don't want to give
the oppression like I'm the onlyone that knows.
That's not what I'm saying atall, and I think that I need you
(27:28):
to hear me that in time that Iwork with someone, I have to be
teachable.
I have to know the rightquestions to ask.
I have to say when I get itwrong, if something doesn't turn
out the way that I want, evenif I hire the third party to
help you get full refund, noquestions, my sincere apologies,
(27:48):
that's it.
I find that what's happening infashion?
You're absolutely right,because of course, I'm going to
style it like a personal stylist, because that's what I said.
I said somebody's child,somebody's mama, somebody's
grandmother, somebody's lookingat this and going, oh man, I can
buy this, this will work for mybody type, just like we do when
(28:08):
we look at anything else.
And I remember I can't rememberif it was a Vogue business
panel or what panel I was onrecently but someone said to me
they were like oh, tell us yourfavorite adaptive fashion brand.
And I said, honestly, I usecuration, I use my styling
system, because people want towear the brands that they know
(28:29):
and love.
I just try to help them findthe brands that they know and
love, that honor their disabledbodies or their chronically ill
bodies or their injured bodies.
People don't.
And because people always saidwhy haven't you designed a line?
Because I was like people don'tknow me.
No offense, I mean, I'm nottaking it and I am working on a
design product now with amanufacturer.
(28:50):
But that's different.
I'm not out here trying to, youknow, sell a lot of things from
me because that's not whatpeople want.
And can I tell you, when Ifirst that first decade of
learning about disability, thatwas the thing that I was on
stage.
I wish I could find that tape.
You know how you have theswimsuit.
Or when they're asking youquestions and they're like, what
would you do?
(29:10):
I was like I will design a lineof clothing for people with
disabilities and everybody waslike, but that was because they
were mostly non-disabled Givinganswers for the non-disabled
gays, as opposed to focusing onpeople with disabilities or the
disabled community.
And now today, I can honestlysay that's the beauty of my.
(29:33):
What Curatable is focused onnow?
Two things.
That's where we live.
We two step in Simplifyingshopping, de-stressing dressing.
We're trying to get you in thebrands you love.
We're trying to make it easy foryou on those days when you're
having spasms, when you're flareups, when your feet are so
swollen you can't even wear thatnormal pair of shoes.
(29:54):
We teach people to have thatgo-to look.
We're helping brands take whatthey are and you have identified
at low hanging fruit and beable to say, oh, we can use this
.
We help them through thatprocess.
And then we not only help themthrough the process, we tell
them who it could work for.
So when they go into designingtheir core products for the next
(30:16):
season, we've already shownthem how they can do this
effortlessly.
And then our report and ourwork with those brands become a
proof of concept for the C-suitewho didn't wanna hear from them
.
So I just wanted to throw thatin there because you're
absolutely on point with yourfeedback.
People are doing it for thenon-disabled gaze and guess what
(30:37):
?
You are not.
I think that people need totreat this as if they suddenly
became a person with a chronicillness or a disability.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
that's it, it would change themselves in that place.
Cool, it would change the wholegame, because the people that
are the most passionate that Ideal with they don't tell me at
first, but then they'll be like,yeah, my mother's a wheelchair
user, or my cousin, it's apersonal experience and they can
relate to that.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, and when it comes to clothes, like fashion
is confidence.
You know what I mean, and Idon't care.
When you get dressed up, you'relooking a mirror.
You're like, whoa wait, yourhair ain't even gotta be done.
I mean it does.
It brings a spark and it's alight that anyone should have
just to be able to feel good intheir clothes but also wanna be
(31:28):
seen in them.
And for me, my experience withit was that it does need more
work.
There should be more voiceswith the lived experiences, but
not only the lived experience.
When you're thinking of fashion,you need to get people in there
to actually know fashion.
Everybody isn't a fashionexpert or go out and just be
(31:48):
stylist or industries right.
You need to get people in there.
You need to get people withswag and all of this, because
that's how you get to change andunderstand what people wanna
wear.
If you're trying to like, say,for instance, there's the
generic colors, right, so thekhaki, the black and the blue,
(32:14):
for the most part, like you seea lot of stuff, they're not
really a lot of good colors andstuff and it's not swaggy, it's
just like let me throw this on,I don't even feel really
comfortable.
I don't even feel comfortablein adaptive clothes, like how
can I do you know?
And again, everything isn't foreverybody.
(32:35):
And even when you know that,through your design you should
specify it, so like, if you'regonna have a pair of pants for a
person in a wheelchair, youshould specify if it's gonna
work for a person that is mobileand independent in a wheelchair
.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
No more questions.
That's why we're here.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
They don't know those questions, Cause I'm like I've
wore pants that have Velcro onthe side but when I transferred,
the Velcro pop open, so thenthe preans are trying to fall
off of me.
So I'm like this doesn'tactually work for me, but I know
it will work for someone thatis in a wheelchair all the time.
It brings comfort level, it'seasier for them to access.
(33:15):
But if they're in it all thetime and not having to transfer
out and things, these pantsspeak to them.
But why can't you promote itthat way, Right Like instead-.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
They don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
There you go, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I mean, this is not a diss.
I've had to learn things.
I've made mistakes.
You know I used to champion,you know, unless someone had a
heart, you know assistivetechnology to help their heart.
I was like, oh, magnetic,magnetic shirts.
And then my dad, who is now inneed of wearing and my dad was
(33:50):
clean, you know, he was suitedand booted.
He was like always clean, andthen he said I'm not ready for
those clothes.
Yet he could barely lift hisarm.
I'm like, daddy, you cannot, Ihave to help you.
This is literally what I do.
Do you want TMZ to show me nothelping, like my dad can't get
(34:13):
into the phone.
Look, but what he was sayingI've learned so much from him
and I've been in this game for along time and I want to
continue to learn what he wassaying is I don't identify with
that.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So let's just say that adaptive fashion need to
have some drip to it, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
And not only that, the people that are behind it
that are learning.
You know, stop telling people,stop talking and I say this with
love, and if I'm ever doingthis, call me out.
If you are in the fashion anddisability community, stop
telling people with disabilitiesthat they're going to help you
design a line that they don'tknow anything about garment
construction.
(34:54):
They know nothing about thethings that they should know.
You're like oh well, we knowthat, but they don't know.
You don't know.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
So, like for me, you know, mydad helped educate me and then I
had some other instances.
So I don't suggest, you know,magnetic tops.
I suggest tops with magneticsnaps.
(35:15):
Why the snap will stay in place.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Trust me, steph, my experience with them tops.
Oh Lord, I'd be out there inthe streets and my shirt done
popped open.
I'm like, oh man, this ain'teven a bed Like again.
It's not comfortable.
It looks great.
If you see the headline, you'reshinin' a thousand times,
You're thinkin' it's a goodthing, they buzz, but at the
(35:41):
same time, again, when you don'tget the insight, and even when
you do, you're not really tryingto change things.
If this model is workin' foryou, if it's work for you to get
people to be sympathetic to thecause and then give, because
that's what I found myself beingaround a lot of areas where
(36:04):
people are receiving funds tocreate things for people with
disabilities, and then what youcreate doesn't really even help
that individual as much as thefunds helped you.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
And yeah, fashion-wise stereotypes.
And that's what I mean by doingthings for the non-disabled
gaze.
If somebody is crying while youhappen people doing things, I
don't care what it is from apublic speaking perspective, for
any aspect, right, that's notwhat we're doing.
As a person with a disability,I don't want you crying for me,
(36:38):
feeling sorry for me.
I want you to finally see melike a black woman.
Don't tell me you can't seecolor, all this melanin you
missin' out.
You need to see color.
You need to understand that myblackness is a part of culture,
of American culture.
I am a black American woman.
Don't tell me you colorblind.
Don't tell me I'm differentlyable or you're not.
(37:01):
That I don't want to hear that.
That's not a compliment and Ithink that that's the issue.
We get people that are notdisabled, which is cool.
You can learn.
People know more than me thatare not disabled and have
studied and have PhDs in areas.
But if you don't understand theculture, if you don't sit down
and begin the conversation bylistening, it's not be able to
(37:22):
tell in your advocacy.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Honestly, steph, the way that I see it is you
referenced it earlier Mostindividuals, when they get
comfortable enough, they speakon having an individual in their
life with a disability.
And when I think about thedevelopment of these things by
non-disabled individuals,they're created off of their own
perception of the person theysee at home.
(37:45):
And if you already look at themas somebody debilitating,
you're not empowering them,you're not putting these clothes
on them, you're not trying tomake them look really fresh and
dressed and get out.
I definitely feel like evencertain people.
I'm still like where are thesekids that you speak up, you know
, like not being rude oranything, but if your story and
(38:05):
stuff come from the children youhave at home, then, hey, they
should be dipped out in theseclothes that you're working so
hard to push out and then youshould be sharing that and I
think that that brings a lot ofawareness, like you said, to
advocacy.
The advocacy is not that goodbecause your perception of the
(38:26):
people you have around you isn'tthat good.
You're just kind of justtagging on, jumping on, you're
jumping on a bandwagon, rightLike, and it's not allowing
those that are authentic withtheir mission and their passion
room.
It's not allowing them room orspace.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, and I have to say, was someone maybe listening
?
Is like, oh, there has to besomething positive.
I started with the positive andI am still hopeful.
That's why I am going to dothis until I feel like, ok, I'm
moving on to something else.
I think we advocate and I'mtaking responsibility for this I
(39:06):
have spent the last three yearswith my own medical struggles
with my dad and other peoplethat I love and care for.
We've got to change the culture.
We don't change culture bytelling people we need to change
culture.
We change culture by changingculture.
Like Issa Rae, I like to useher as an example.
(39:27):
She changed the way she showedthat black female characters are
three-dimensional.
We're not just these flat,we're all the same.
Boo, boo, boo, boo, boogirlfriend.
She gave us.
She didn't give us.
She showed the world who we are.
(39:48):
That has to happen throughedutainment, meaning that we
need to create the culture thatwe want to see.
I don't mean getting online andgoing only yeah, it's helpful
when Wes says, hey, this is whatit's like for me to transfer
into my car.
Some people don't even knowthat.
But beyond that, wes is nowhosting a show where you see him
(40:10):
with the baddest.
Cars like his cars are part ofyour thing.
So that's shifting the culture,because it's not only selling
people how oh man, this is okay,this is how he does that.
Oh, look at his, look at thesuite of cars, look at what he's
into while driving his car.
That changes perception fasterthan anything else that we can
do.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
No, true, it's not about what you can put on paper
and what you use to action, thatyou take and what you do, the
awareness that you bring to theeveryday life, the lived
experiences, because the livedexperiences going to amplify the
advocacy.
There are people withdisabilities out here living.
You know what I mean and ifthat was shown it would
definitely shift.
(40:51):
So, again, we definitely, likeyou said, I appreciate you
coming in and hitting it withthe positivity.
Again, my choice when it comesto clothing is what I like to
wear and what makes me, what'scomfortable to my body.
And even though everyonedoesn't make adaptive clothing,
(41:14):
I will say that there areclothing that I can adapt to and
it does compliment me.
Well, if there was, if morebrands and things understood
that, if they paid attention towhat they are selling also, they
would be able to know that itcan serve a certain group of
people.
Every product might not right,but most products can.
(41:36):
And so, again, that's the workthat you're doing is being able
to say, hey, yeah, these areclothing that can be or have
been created to your body, but Ican also go and tap into other
brands that have things that cancompliment you and maybe nail
that image or whatever thatyou're trying to portray.
(41:58):
So we appreciate your work,steph, and we love it.
And again, I can't wait to besuited and booted at my gala so
I get to tell you at first handon how this experience is.
But if you know my girl Loloshe was on the show before but
Lolo is a real great friend ofme and Steph Lolo everywhere and
(42:22):
from you know, if I'm notmistaken, steph is the one
that's making Lolo look good ineach and everything, and so if
you see Lolo, you definitely seeSteph, and Steph might not be
there, but them threads.
That was Steph, right, like.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
And I and I I've enjoyed my partnership with her
and I think I'm not sure whoyour audience is.
Who's listening to you.
Can you give me some insightinto who you think your audience
is, because I would love toshare something that I think
would be specific, that kind ofspoke to them?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I think my audience is pretty well rounded.
You know I have individualsthat tap into different subjects
.
Of course, the disabilitycommunity is pretty large, at
least a black disabled community.
I know there's a lot morepeople, but I know I gravitate
to a lot of people that looklike me, as well as
entrepreneurs and so on, so youdefinitely got some innovators
(43:19):
and creators that will belistening to this.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Okay.
Well, I really want to speak toany black designers, tailors
this is, in whole industryStylus.
We are finally putting togethera course.
I am not good at those writtencourt where you have to do them
on your own, so they will bevideo based and they will be
interactive, so we can startsharing the knowledge that I
(43:44):
have with people to help withstyling.
But, in addition, designers,man, let's do this.
I need to see more of you inthis space because the designs
come from the designers, the howpeople would tailor or do
things.
That's going to come from yourstyle aesthetic, and we need to
(44:05):
see different style aestheticand I don't see you in the rooms
, I don't see you at the eventand I want to see more BIPOC
stylus, more people, especiallyblack people.
This is a whole thing that Ifeel like is that's money on the
table?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
It is money on the table.
I appreciate you sharing blackpeople, black designers, anyone
that's in the fashion industryof color.
Tap into adaptive clothing.
Tap into this market to createclothing for people that are
just like you, that could justbe living a little different,
(44:44):
and just understand that.
If you're getting in this andyou're creative, I already know
you're creative, we know you'recreative and that's why we're
telling you to create some more,because you want to comment
that I'm the only or one of theonly I don't ever believe the
word only because the world istoo big.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
One of the only black fashion stylists for people
with disabilities would make mechuckle.
This woman, so cute, from Italyand was like, hi, I'm
researching the disabilitystylist.
I was like, oh, that's cute,she's in my language and she's
writing me asking me aboutinterviewing.
It's just adorable and so it isglobal.
(45:26):
But I don't see enough peoplethat look like me or you, wes,
that are saying this isimportant and that might lead to
the apprehension of ourcommunity to adopt and feel
comfortable with identifyingwith disability, because I'm
going to get you suckered andthings that make us really feel
like we already a minority.
(45:47):
We don't want anybody elseputting us down.
I've heard people say and thenI'm thinking well, that's kind
of a white supremacist way oflooking at things and that you
can't.
Are you a minority?
Are you at the bottom?
So I think that we need to kindof redefine individually
because no group is a monolithbut really redefine what it
(46:10):
means to be a black person,either serving people with
disabilities or being a full,functioning part of that
community.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Hmm, yeah, I think so .
I think that that's importantto highlight and allow people to
be aware of that.
Yeah, no, and I just thinkabout the whole the layers that
the black community deal with,and the reason why they lack of
(46:41):
acceptance is when it comes todisabled bodies, and then how
it's overlooked as we start toclimb, you know, and knowing
that our services couldliterally serve someone that's
in our community, right, andyeah, I think that's something
that, of course, we have to digin a lot deeper when it comes to
(47:03):
that subject, because a lot ofpeople might see the DEI
conversation going around and Ithink a lot of these
conversations are based on justthe white community, in a sense,
the hierarchy of theindividuals that are making
decisions, but it's alsograss-roated within your
community.
(47:23):
It's grass-roated within thepeople that are around you, and
so when you have, when you'retalking about black individuals
with disabilities, we're notlooking, you know, for
acceptance on the outside of thecommunity as much as we're
trying to be welcome within ourown community, and that
conversation isn't reallyprovided.
But I was just having aconversation with an
(47:45):
entrepreneur recently and I saidI have more issues trying to
find access into blackbusinesses than I have into any
other businesses and,unfortunately, as much as I want
to raise awareness and promotea product and even go to an
(48:05):
event most people and I get it.
We're just trying to get inwhere we can fit in, because we
don't have that many resourcesand opportunity.
I got it yeah.
But you can't forget the peoplethat are with you you know what
I mean and the people that wantto be involved in the way that
you amplify your brand and yourbusiness is to be able to
(48:27):
include everybody.
And as we're getting intoentrepreneurship and we're
seeing entrepreneurship getpushed more for black
communities, please includepeople with disabilities.
That is something that youdon't overlook, you know, and
that's something that you reallyshould find a way to create
(48:48):
service within a disabledcommunity with your products,
and I just think that isimportant.
There's a lot of innovationthat I see and there's a lack of
conversation around disabilityin the black community.
So, as I said, we will dig intothat conversation on another
day with a group of people, sothat we can have a collective
group of perspectives when itcomes to that.
(49:10):
But I do believe that it's nothard to see, and we have to look
at ourselves and look at ouradvocacy as the black community
and see if we're doing a goodenough job or can we do better,
and I think that a lot of peoplewill become aware of that.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think that I agree with you you need a variety of
perspectives.
We can definitely do better asa community.
I mean, I think anyone thatapproaches disability has to
humble themselves and understand.
You know, people withdisabilities weren't expected to
be running podcasts andcompanies and jumping in and out
(49:47):
of cars and transferring it.
You know that wasn't the plan.
Even wheelchairs aren't evenbuilt to be all industries.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
You know, you know this Wes.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, my fear is definitely.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah, you know, with the ADA and you know where we
are with that.
There's a court case that'sgoing before the Supreme Court,
supreme Court and quotations forme I'm sorry they've been
tripping lately so they getquotes.
It's going before them inOctober and what I'll say about
that case is the overall view ofthe case is that there, someone
(50:20):
brought you know this casesaying, hey, we shouldn't there,
shouldn't be able to be atester that tests to see if a
specific place is accessible ornot.
But what they don't understandis, duh, most people with
disabilities you know where I'mgoing Like they need to.
We have to have testers,because you've talked about
(50:43):
hotels, you've talked aboutdifferent things where they'll
say, oh yeah, this is ADAcompliant and we're like, yeah,
it's not really, it's just notbecause, either the shower head
is too high, the bench is toohard, like there are just so
many little nuances that ifpeople knew they would do better
(51:03):
.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Well, I just think that you know.
That's why I didn't get onyesterday and talk about the
anniversary of the ADA.
I'm really concerned about ifthe ADA will be fully gutted
after October.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Yeah, no, I definitely think that there's a
lot of concerns.
I didn't truly celebrate it,not to the level that I see a
lot of people.
I mean being a part of thiscommunity, being an advocate
within this community and seeinghow the intersections within
this community aren't reallybeing aligned with the voices
(51:36):
that are around.
Like, ada is serving a lot ofpeople, yes, it is making things
accessible and accommodating,even for me, but then, on the
other end, there's a lack ofawareness by just human beings
period, of even what that means,and so, with that, constant
barriers are created.
(51:57):
They're created, brothers,because of race, religion.
They're created because of theintersections if it's not on
race or religion, like there'sso many different barriers that
so, and what I mean by that is,say, people.
I see a lot of awareness aroundflights and airline travel and
that's cool, and I see a lot ofawareness and a lot of times
(52:19):
when I see people amplifying.
I guess my biggest thought islike, until you put a black
person in that room, you're notactually doing a good enough job
, because there's a lot of otherlayers of discrimination when
it comes to people withdisabilities that look different
than those that are trying toadvocate, and when you're not in
(52:39):
a, you haven't put yourself ina position to advocate for
everyone, no matter if they looklike you or not.
You think that way that youlook is the primary lens when it
comes to disability.
But when we get out intosociety they're like oh no, you
got a disability too.
And now you got those layers ofjudgment where people are
(53:00):
judging you because of the wayyou look.
They're on top of what you'reclaiming as a disability.
Don't get loud, right, becausenow that's another layer of
microaggression.
So I'm just sharing that,because when I do see a lot of
advocacy and I do see a lot ofwork, I have to stress to people
that it doesn't necessarilymean that it's serving me.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Right, and here's the thing I know we've been talking
about this, but the one thingthat I very rarely share in
public, because it's notsomething that I would even tell
people that you won't ever seeme doing this I will do this
stealth Like no one will knowthat I'm really doing this.
But the reason that I'm so, so,so passionate about this is
(53:42):
because what we can change hereI think about people that are
living in lovely places but theymay not have pavement so they
don't have access to wheelchairs.
I feel like every time we fighta fight or we advocate here,
not that here is better thanthere, that's not what I'm
saying, but when you put a lighton it, we can put a light on it
(54:05):
here, like me moving from theEast Coast to LA, right here
near Hollywood.
It's like the light that's onthe work that I do with Lolo and
other people now.
It's very different from thework when I was doing it off
camera, where people couldn'tsee it, and that's what's really
important to me.
What about people who are stillbeing put in orphanages?
(54:29):
I just saw something where Ithink it was somewhere in
Germany a child was.
They were institutional lies,because those are the people I
want my work to have such animpact that it will be
nonsensical to think thatsomeone that's born with any
disability visible I hate to sayinvisible, because disabilities
(54:51):
aren't really invisible that'skind of I know that's popular to
say, but I think those, I thinkpeople who don't have access to
have a loud voice, who willnever be on a plane, who will
never have an iPhone, who willnever not because they can't it
may not even be culturallysomething that they want to do,
(55:14):
but they still should haveaccess to comfort and be able to
emulate in a way, be able towork if they want to, like.
I think for me, at the end ofthe day, people that are
unhoused or overlooked, or thoseare the people that my work, I
really want to impact, becauseif we can shift culture and help
(55:38):
, you can't change anyone, butif you can help shift those
mindsets it can really have agreat impact on people.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
And I think that that kind of, just as we wrap this
up, when you look at fashion andyou look at the conversation
that we've had even though weveered off into one way and then
came back everything isimportant because when you
provide advocacy for someone andthey receive it, it allows that
(56:09):
person to become confidentwithin themselves and they find
more confidence by knowing whatthey have access to.
And when you do that, you'reallowing someone to now create
and define themselves.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Defining yourself allows you to go into the world
and create the reality despitethe reality that you're going
into.
But when you can't defineyourself, you're living based on
someone else's definition andyou're going into society and
facing the barriers that someoneelse has defined you to face,
(56:54):
and all we need is a voice.
All we need is someone to speakup.
So when that person can startto find themselves and define
themselves now they're in thosestores looking for some threads
that show their image right,that represent them in a better
way.
It allows them to give societya different way to view them.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Right, and so, again, everything speaks Rather.
We're trying to push for moreADA laws rather we're trying to
push for more access.
Rather we're trying to makemore clothes fashionable.
What we're doing is trying togive the individual enough
options to be confident enoughwith their disabled body that
they can go out and definethemselves regardless of how you
(57:50):
see them, because they're goingto allow you to see them
differently.
At least, that's how I feelright.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
No, I would have to agree with that.
And the last thing I will sayis anyone can become a person
with a disability at any moment.
What would you want?
How would you want your closetto look?
What clothing would you wannahave access to?
Would you wanna pay $200 forsomething you really love and
(58:20):
then spend an extra 50 to 75,maybe sometimes upward to $125
extra dollars to have thattailor because they don't see
your humanity?
It's a part of seeing someone'shumanity, yeah absolutely,
(58:41):
steph.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
I really appreciate you joining me and locking in,
and, of course, we could havedefinitely did another hour with
this chat.
There's a lot to unpack when itcomes to fashion intersections
and disability, entrepreneurshipand disability, and I think
that we're gonna hone in on thatin some future projects soon.
Anyway, so you guys stay tunedfor that.
(59:03):
But how do people find you?
How do people learn more aboutcuratable?
How do people ask questionswhen it comes to fashion that
maybe we didn't get a chance tocover?
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Oh, I love that.
Well, they can hit me up onInstagram.
They can either find mepersonally at disability fashion
stylist, it's the same onthreads and Instagram, or they
can find curatable on Instagramor threads and we will be moving
(59:39):
into creating more content forLinkedIn so you'll also be able
to.
That's a real B2B focus for usthere, so you'll be able to ask
questions and hopefully getanswers.
I don't know about TikTok, butYouTube shorts definitely that
might happen.
(59:59):
I have a personal TikTok.
I just you know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
You know, Steph, at the end of the day, that's where
the advocacy is.
So you just have to look atTikTok as a way.
You just repurpose content andyou put the tick.
You just yeah, right, We'lltalk about it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
I just don't know that.
I love it for curatable, butI'm finding a way to maybe
advocate as Stephanie.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
If that makes sense.
So, and you know the more thatI kind of get back in the game
after being in my mind, a way ofit.
You know, I think that I'llfind my way.
But they can definitely find useven at curatablecom.
Send us a message there anddon't forget, pronounce the
(01:00:48):
eight C-U-R-A-B-L-E curatable.
That'll make it easy toremember.
We'd love to hear from you andyou can hit me up in my indirect
messages and, just you know,ask the question.
Questions that I'm not able toanswer is how do I address with
this particular chronic illness.
I would have to ask you maybe10, 20 more questions in order
(01:01:11):
to really be able to help you.
So if that's the type ofquestion you have, you might
need to book me for aconsultation.
That's a better way to handlethat.
But if you just wanna ask somegeneral questions that I can
then answer and maybe post foreverybody to have you know to be
to benefit from, I'm happy todo that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Absolutely All right, steph.
Well, thank you again.
Another episode of Out of theShadow podcast.
My name is Wesley Hamilton.
Thank you guys, appreciate itBye.
As we conclude anotherinspiring episode, I want to
remind you that success isn'tjust about the spotlight.
(01:01:51):
It's also about the shadows.
It's about the struggles weconquer, the unseen battles we
fight and the silent victorieswe claim.
I'm Wesley Hamilton and you'vebeen listening to Out of the
Shadows podcast, where weilluminate the stories of often
left untold.
Join me again next week as weventure back into the shadows
(01:02:11):
and bring another amazingindividual into the light.
Until then, remember, no storyis too small to inspire.
Keep fighting, keep winning andstay out the shadows PLAYING.
In a world where success often steals the
limelight, the stories thattruly inspire, that truly matter
, are left behind in the shadows.
I'm your host, Wesley Hamilton.
Welcome to the Out of theShadows podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
My faith dictates to me that this is the way that I
was supposed to be, because thisis who I am.
This is the way I came, and Icame as a person born like this
with the courage to speak up andadvocate for myself.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yo, what's up everybody.
This is Wesley Hamilton.
This is another episode of theOut of the Shadows podcast.
I want to welcome my guest, anextraordinary individual,
someone that I truly believe hasemerged from the shadows, and I
think that her story should bereally represented anywhere.
(01:00):
So our guest today is StephanieThomas.
She was born with a disability,but that's never stopped her.
She used her challenges as adriving force behind her mission
to change the fashion world.
I'm thrilled to introduceStephanie.
She's a mastermind behind theaward-winning fashion and
(01:22):
styling system that she createdaccessible, smart and
fashionable.
She has found a curatable,which is an amazing platform,
and she will share more aboutthat soon.
Steph is just a beautiful humanbeing and if you don't know who
she is, you're definitely goingto know who she is today.
(01:42):
I'm honored to bring her on theshow and truly share what she's
doing in the work field, in heradvocacy and just in life.
So, Stephanie, welcome to theshow.
I appreciate you coming.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Oh, thank you for having me, Wesley.
Thank you for the very kindintroduction.
I really appreciate it.
It was all true, not true?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Absolutely no.
So we can dive right in, steph,and just get right into your
story.
I know I try not to say a lotwhen it comes to the
introduction, but also letpeople know who we're having on
the platform.
So if you could just share, tostart off with is your personal
(02:28):
journey and how it's influencedyou and your career and fashion.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
So actually I was born with adisability and because I was
born at a time where disabilitystill wasn't a thing that people
talked about, I never reallyidentified as a person with a
disability because I didn't feellike I had the right to and to
just make a long story short,without trauma and all of that
unnecessary stuff.
(02:53):
I never understood that.
Oh, my grandmother would say,oh, you're so clumsy, not
realizing that they literallyhad to take bones from my body
to create toes.
I mean, today I still go to thepodiatrist and no matter who I
see, they're like how are youwalking without prosthetics or
(03:13):
without, like they are wonderinghow I'm walking?
I do have a background a veryminimal background and like
modern and African dance, I'vealways loved to move karate,
things like that, anything thatkept me moving and I grew up
around boys so that kept merunning after go-karts and
balling and hurting myself.
(03:34):
I think I probably unconsciouslylearned how to ambulate
independently.
And I also have dexteritychallenges, meaning I have one
thumb on my right hand and thenI often make sure that I don't
overuse my left hand becausepeople always go oh, it's just a
thumb missing or it's justsomething like that and, if I
(03:55):
can just say this really quick,I think, being born this way and
existing in the world this way,I have had to work through a
lot of internalized ableism.
My advocacy has actually helpedheal me, because I felt so
ashamed.
I felt like I couldn't talkabout it to my mom, because
mothers who have children withdisabilities that are born that
(04:17):
way carry a lot of guilt andI've never wanted my mom to feel
guilty because my faithdictates to me that this is the
way that I was supposed to be,because this is who I am.
This is the way I came, and Icame as a person born like this,
with the courage to speak upand advocate for myself.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think when we're talkingabout disability and a lot of
conversations and of coursethat's just part of your story
but I appreciate that's whatbrought you into the work that
you do and really into who youare you sometimes don't hear the
(04:55):
perspective of someone that wasborn and kind of what you had
to deal with for yourself, basedon how you were brought up, and
so just being able to sharethat, I hope that shares like to
individuals that do havechildren with disabilities to
understand what that looks like.
And before we even go anyfurther, like what advice are
(05:17):
things that you would suggestwhen there are youth that are
born with disabilities to kindof give them that confidence and
power?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Okay, so I need to put on my glasses.
Glasses, can I see you?
You blurry.
Okay, now I can see you.
I was trying not to have on ahat and glasses.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's obvious that you look good.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Thank you.
If you are someone that's, I'llstart with the children or the
young adults.
If you're someone born with adisability, you get to define
yourself.
Don't let people who are notdisabled tell you you're not
disabled enough and then don'tlet the disability community
tell you who you are.
As a black woman with adisability, oftentimes I deal
with you, know someone basicallysaying to me if you were a
(06:00):
wheelchair user, it would beeasier for me to deal with you
and Wes will get into thisduring the conversation because
it's really impacted myself-esteem, my personal life,
when you happen in saying you'repretty but your feet are f'd up
and actually my feet are quitenice.
I just don't have all my toes.
You know I do pedicures.
(06:20):
It's not messed up and I'musing humor to help you see that
who you are is who you are andyou teach people how to treat
you.
You teach people how you showup in the world because they're
going to look at you.
People have always seen me asgreater than I saw myself, so I
look for a lot of validation inthe eyes of other people to
(06:42):
establish or identify my ownself-worth, and I would just
warn against that.
I would say you have to definewho you are, what you love to do
.
Don't let anything stop you.
I'm not talking about someweird, you know, disability I'm
going to overcome.
I'm talking about just do youand don't let either group
(07:03):
define who you are, because thatanyone can become a person with
a disability at any moment.
And I always say to thosepeople you need to create the
world you would want to live inif you ever became that person.
That's disabled and what's realquick.
I'm just going to speak to theparents and this is with all due
respect.
Their story is not your story.
(07:25):
To prevent them from telling, Ineed you to step back.
I need you to understand thatit's not a slide on you, it's
not a diss on you.
Stop taking their life andmaking it so personal about you.
Work through your own ableism.
Work through it together withyour child, because when you
take away that child's abilityto tell their own story and to
(07:48):
fully identify as a person witha disability, you harm them.
You harm their ability to showup in the world.
You make them more dependent onthe approval of others.
Just action, and I know youlove us saying this to parents,
you know, but love us enough tolet us define ourselves.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, sometimes people got to hear that hard
truth, you know, and it'snothing against what you think
is right, but it's definitelyimportant to help to pursue and
persuade us, to say, your childto be able to identify
themselves and define who theywant to be.
You know, I appreciate yousharing at least the journey of
(08:33):
your upbringing in the best way,without really trying to dump
trauma, as you shared, and thenalso allowing that advice to be
poured out first before wereally get into your story,
because I think, through aperson that advocates
organically right, like, we justwant to make sure that those
messages are shared for thosethat are listening or those that
(08:56):
are tapping on their own.
On a lighter note, I know thatyou've worn a lot of hats and
you do a lot of things, eventoday, and a lot of people
probably don't know necessarilyeverything that you do, but what
(09:16):
most people do familiarizethemselves with is your fashion
system and being a fashionstylist, and of course, we throw
a disability on top of thatbecause you do make most of the
individuals you will all of them, but I would say most of the
community that you do work withreally nice and fly, and I'm
(09:37):
excited to even use yourservices for some of my upcoming
work, as we talked about.
But can you explain, outside ofjust really breaking down all
the hats you wear and the onesthat you've left, what pushed
you into not only creating thestyling system but making that
your main purpose, to reallypursue and try to make
(10:01):
connections so that fashion isaccessible for everybody?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really great question.
So my journey started incollege.
It spans three decades.
Here's how the decades arebroke down from a macro, not
micro macro.
The first decade was melearning what there are no great
looking clothing for peoplewith disabilities.
I couldn't believe it.
I was a part of the Miss Americapageant system to earn
(10:27):
scholarship money.
It's nothing I ever dreamt ofdoing.
Someone asked me to do it and Iwas like, okay, cool, I'll do
it.
Prior to that fun fact, I was aprofessional cheerleader
captain for the Chicago lovablesduring the Jordan era.
This was pre-Jordan winning, sodon't get real excited.
I came in the same year.
Scotty Pippin came in and theywere still kind of getting their
(10:52):
wings, but that was some greatbasketball.
So I left the court and went tocollege on a vocal scholarship.
So most people that that's afun fact.
Also, I sing.
I sing all of my life.
People that knew me growing upknew me as someone that sang the
national anthem like I singsing, you know I don't anymore
(11:12):
but I did no, no, no, steph, I'malready taking a mental note to
go.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
you know like.
No, no, steph sings girl.
Yeah, we got you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So to go from the court to the stage, I was kind
of already prepped, because Icheered for the Bulls
professionally for two years, soI had been in settings with a
lot of different people.
I had a conviction when I foundout, you know, that things
weren't the way they should be,in my opinion, for the disabled,
and I started two years afterthe ADA was passed, you know.
(11:47):
So it was still very new.
And decade two, I startedreaching out to people in the
fashion industry after watchingthis episode of the Oprah
Winfrey show.
Oprah came on and was likewe're having a fashion show for
everyone.
I was super excited.
I was a TV reporter at the time.
I went into work early so Icould get off in time and
(12:09):
actually watch this, and theyhad everyone, basically, but
people with disabilities.
At that time you could pick upthe phone and call the fashion
labels.
You know the brands and stuffand so I did.
They strung me along for a year.
Some flew me out, gave meclothes, patted me on the head
and sent me on my way.
That's decade two and that'swhen I developed my disability
(12:30):
fashion styling systemaccessible, smart, fashionable,
accessible, easy to put on andtake off, smart, smart for your
health and fashionable thewearer loves it.
And then decade three.
I've had that experience mostlyin LA.
I sold my home on the EastCoast.
I moved here.
(12:50):
I knew I wanted to make adifference because I figured one
Getty image could do more thanone way, more than I was doing,
you know, offline and helpingpeople.
So I did that.
But what really excites meabout where I'm at which we'll
talk about a little later is nowI'm hyper-focused on solving
two problems within thecommunity, because Wes, I think
(13:13):
we have this chasm and I knowyou can speak to this between
dressing and living non-disabledand then living disabled.
That transition is like goingfrom first-class citizen to
second, third or fourth-classcitizen if you let people do it
to you.
And we want to help close thatchasm, specifically when it
(13:35):
comes to simplifying shoppingand de-stressing dressing for
the disabled, the chronicallyill, as well as those who are
just simply injured.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
That's good.
That's good and I appreciateyou sharing just that journey
and how you broke it down.
You can tell that you've had toget that together.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I saw your eyes when I said three decades.
You were like oh no, I'm sorry,I had some very kind people
like wrapping up.
So, yes, we got into a nicelittle bow for you.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
No, but three decades seems like a lot of time.
It even allows me to reflect onthe work that I'm doing and
understand that when you'retrying to change things in the
world, it takes time andregardless of how you perfect it
, one year or one month youstill find yourself having to
(14:34):
spend more time into learningand advancing it.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I can only get into that West about the journey of
being an entrepreneur.
I feel like it's romanticizedonline a lot and my journey has
taught me I'm now the type ofCEO I wanna be and I think I've
always been that way.
But I was strictly justdefining success by money how
(15:03):
much cash flow I had, notintegrity, not even making
people angry, because sometimesif you're making the right
people angry, that means you'redoing the right thing.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, I know you can relate tothat.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, absolutely, and we definitely tap into that
because I think entrepreneurship, regardless, is a good topic to
talk about, but for twoindividuals that do have
disabilities, I think that isimportant to share.
I do see that there's a lack ofconversation around
entrepreneurship for people withdisability and that go go go
(15:42):
mentality it really doesn'tspeak to people that can't go,
go go.
But there should be storiesthat are shaped around and
allowing people to understandwhat time looks like.
Patience, like you said, likeprojecting, the way you see
success and opportunity as afounder, as a CEO.
So let's get into that, butbefore we cover, like, the
(16:07):
entrepreneurship side because Iwill dig into the other side of
what people don't know so much,because that's the real
importance of this podcast.
But I do wanna ask, because wewere talking about the fashion
system and definitely took threedecades to get to where you are
(16:28):
now what do you feel has beenthe response from the fashion
industry when it comes toinclusivity in accessible
fashion in 2023?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, I think that's a really great question, I would
have to take you back to the1990s, the 1980s.
There was legislation passedprior to the ADA, which really
got a lot of companies to movingand doing different things.
I'll give you an example Mostpeople don't know that Nordstrom
has been advertising usingmodels with disabilities since
(17:01):
1991.
So this is nothing new.
And you know what I think ishappening in 2030?
I think is happening in 2023,even though there was a lot kind
of happening below the surfacein the 90s and the early 2000s,
but it was below the surface.
People didn't really wanna seeor hear from us.
(17:23):
I think now that DE&I is athing thing.
Well, it's not becoming a thingas much after 2020, it seems,
but they're firing all theirDE&I, but it was a thing.
So I feel like the fashionindustry is a microcosm of
society, meaning that society isbrilliant at presenting this
(17:45):
illusion of inclusion, but it'sperformative and it's not
because people want it to beperformative.
I wanna be really clear.
There are some people in thefashion industry that want to
make a real difference, thatwant to do more, but their hands
are tied by their C-suite.
People that don't see the valuein putting money behind it If
(18:06):
someone else contacts me andsays I got $200 for you to give
me your opinion.
I just don't know.
I'm gonna throw my hat at them.
It's like that's not respectful.
You would never tell acisgender white male who's been
in a space for 30 years.
You have $200 for their insight.
(18:27):
So I think that the fashionindustry is moving in the right
direction Too slow for me.
I'm gonna keep it real, which iswhy I'm excited about our new
curation product with curatable.
But I think we're going in theright direction, but it's never
going.
I'm gonna just be honest andthis is not what people are
gonna wanna hear.
The CFDA is now partnering withGAMMIT.
(18:49):
They're doing some good things.
More Horton has done excellentthings with design.
There's so many wonderfulpeople, but until we start to
deal with the fact that peoplesee us as viable fashion
customers, until peopleunderstand that we are human and
see our humanity, designing adifferent piece of clothing or
(19:16):
curating clothing is not goingto change attitudes.
And writing for Grease Barrierattitude and no barriers.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
That's so true.
I mean, I've had my fair sharewith the adaptive clothing, I've
done fashion shows andeverything and, like you said,
it is definitely moving slowerthan what it should.
But I think the response hasbeen, you know, like you said,
it's being good to bringawareness, to create products
and have all these differentcompanies, from JC Penney's to
(19:48):
Tommy Hill, figure, you know,having some type of clothing
within their system.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
But that's what I'm talking about JC Penney.
They 100 years ago, about 100years ago, when was it?
Jc Penney has been aroundforever, right, but in the 1950s
and the 1960s they actually hada whole magazine with clothing
design disabilities.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Okay, so you said in the 19, right.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Like the 19, let's just say 1950s and 60s.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
All right.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
But they don't even really talk about it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
No, they don't, you know, and we're just noting that
.
So in the 1950s, before all ofthis extra awareness came in and
media started to become larger,there were platforms like JC
Penney's that did haveadvertisement that shared
disabled bodies.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, and they did it through catalogs mostly.
And I'm not.
I'm not the disability fashionhistorian, catherine Hitchcock
is coming out with an amazingbook.
It may already be out.
She covers a lot of that.
But the functional fashionmovement in the 1960s had over
what 30 major like TommyHillfigure type major designers
(21:09):
at the time that were a part ofit, but it never caught fire.
It lit a match but it nevercaught fire, and that's because
they're trying to shift and sellclothing without shifting the
culture.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
No, that's very true.
I mean, again, like what I wasgoing to share about my journey
with adaptive clothing is,frankly, I don't wear it as much
and it's because I mean I comefrom you know, I didn't just I
guess I don't know, I wasn'traised, I didn't have my
disability like when I wasyounger, and what I'm trying to
(21:44):
get to is when, or at least frommy perspective, is that
individuals that have been bornwith disabilities have become
more custom to an accessibleclothing because, one, they've
dealt with the complicationsmore and two, once that
innovation comes out is reallyspeaking to you and adults that
(22:08):
you know might have some type oflimitations that really don't
get them out.
That's kind of how I felt whenit first came out and I started
getting products.
And then when I when I you know, of course I tapped into the
products, but I being so muchinto fashion, that's what I'm
getting to.
I feel like most people in kidsand youth and again, you get
(22:32):
every now and then you'll see astylish kid and some nice
threads and they have adisability right but a lot of
their perspective is thatthere's definitely not enough
comfortable clothes.
So people wear comfortableclothes all the time, especially
wheelchair users, and so whatI'm trying to get to is that I
don't see a lot of people comingup with their disabilities and
(22:56):
being able to be a part of thefashion industry, right, yeah,
so like street wear, you know,when, uh, young GZ had his line
I'm just really speaking fromall these different lines that
even though I wore them as ateenager, I really couldn't have
seen it.
I could have, but it wasn't likeit was introduced to
individuals with disabilities.
(23:16):
So, for me to get into adaptiveclothing, I'm thinking to
myself, like, are these jeansgoing to be, you know, a
material like my frame jeans?
Or is these, you know, is thisshirt going to really speak to
me?
And what I find is that thereare certain items that speak to
certain ability levels.
(23:36):
Everything isn't, you know,accustomed to everybody.
And so say, for instance, I dida fashion show and I know I'm
like I went around that in a way, still because, you know,
You're trying to help us say itbecause I think you think I use
it all the time.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
No, no, no, no, not at all, that's like don't, don't
feel bad about me, I'm notsugarcoating it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Trust me, I was just trying to get to this point.
I did a fashion show one timeand you know, and it was, I was
modeling for a top brand andthey was like you know, you're
the wheelchair model, so ofcourse in my mind you have
clothing for wheelchair users.
I'm going to go ahead, putthese clothes on.
The jeans were, or the short.
(24:20):
The jeans were, they say theywere for wheelchair users, but
they didn't really have like thehigh back or low front, they
just kind of had the elastic or,you know, the band.
Anyway, I wore the pants, I worethe shirt.
The shirt had the magneticclosure at the top, but for me
it's not something that I need.
So, while I'm getting to it,even though I had a whole outfit
(24:42):
on that was adaptive clothing,there was only probably one item
that actually served me well,and they gave me a jacket.
And this is where I had, like,the disconnect.
They gave me this jacket to puton.
They all started to pin it upand do all these things because
it was a long, like trench coatkind of thing.
We might not look good.
But after most fashion shows,if people don't know, most
(25:05):
brands like you either take theclothes or they bring or they
send them to you.
So in my mind I'm like, allright, cool, I know this was
bulky during the fashion show,but y'all don't send this jacket
to me, it's going to betailored and cropped for me.
No, it was sent to me as a longtrench coat, like the same,
like they didn't even keep, likethe nothing.
(25:26):
So to me it was dishearteningto know that I just represented
this brand and I justrepresented these clothes that
look like it was serving mycommunity.
But in reality, unless I cameout of pocket to make it
actually speak and compliment mybody, it was going to sit in my
closet and what I find is thatmost people go and grab these
(25:49):
clothes thinking that they'reserving or complimenting, and
then once you get it, you'relike this doesn't even work for
me.
My experience to it was justwhere I truly didn't feel good
about what it was looking andhow it was being received by the
disabled community because ofwho they see in it, like oh, wes
(26:11):
wearing that, I can go buy that, I can go do this right, and
then reality is like you can'teven put these on or you can't
wear it.
It looked good but in realitythe everyday movement within
these clothes would becomplicated.
And again, I'm just sharingthat.
I'm not saying that everybody'sgonna go put on a big long
trench coat.
What I'm saying is these arepeople that are in the industry,
(26:35):
that are trying to servedisabled bodies and they can't
even do it right.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Well, here's the thing that I love about what you
said when I was working withEcom, that one wasn't me, that
one wasn't me, was it?
I'm like, I'm close downeverything, but working in Ecom,
which is e-commerce, someonewas like oh, this is just a
(27:04):
photo shoot, just do it.
Basically, and their maincomplaint about me was that I'm
styled, I'm worried aboutstyling the models as if it was
personal styling.
And that's the exact feedback Igave, and I don't want to give
the oppression like I'm the onlyone that knows.
That's not what I'm saying atall, and I think that I need you
(27:28):
to hear me that in time that Iwork with someone, I have to be
teachable.
I have to know the rightquestions to ask.
I have to say when I get itwrong, if something doesn't turn
out the way that I want, evenif I hire the third party to
help you get full refund, noquestions, my sincere apologies,
(27:48):
that's it.
I find that what's happening infashion?
You're absolutely right,because of course, I'm going to
style it like a personal stylist, because that's what I said.
I said somebody's child,somebody's mama, somebody's
grandmother, somebody's lookingat this and going, oh man, I can
buy this, this will work for mybody type, just like we do when
(28:08):
we look at anything else.
And I remember I can't rememberif it was a Vogue business
panel or what panel I was onrecently but someone said to me
they were like oh, tell us yourfavorite adaptive fashion brand.
And I said, honestly, I usecuration, I use my styling
system, because people want towear the brands that they know
(28:29):
and love.
I just try to help them findthe brands that they know and
love, that honor their disabledbodies or their chronically ill
bodies or their injured bodies.
People don't.
And because people always saidwhy haven't you designed a line?
Because I was like people don'tknow me.
No offense, I mean, I'm nottaking it and I am working on a
design product now with amanufacturer.
(28:50):
But that's different.
I'm not out here trying to, youknow, sell a lot of things from
me because that's not whatpeople want.
And can I tell you, when Ifirst that first decade of
learning about disability, thatwas the thing that I was on
stage.
I wish I could find that tape.
You know how you have theswimsuit.
Or when they're asking youquestions and they're like, what
would you do?
(29:10):
I was like I will design a lineof clothing for people with
disabilities and everybody waslike, but that was because they
were mostly non-disabled Givinganswers for the non-disabled
gays, as opposed to focusing onpeople with disabilities or the
disabled community.
And now today, I can honestlysay that's the beauty of my.
(29:33):
What Curatable is focused onnow?
Two things.
That's where we live.
We two step in Simplifyingshopping, de-stressing dressing.
We're trying to get you in thebrands you love.
We're trying to make it easy foryou on those days when you're
having spasms, when you're flareups, when your feet are so
swollen you can't even wear thatnormal pair of shoes.
(29:54):
We teach people to have thatgo-to look.
We're helping brands take whatthey are and you have identified
at low hanging fruit and beable to say, oh, we can use this
.
We help them through thatprocess.
And then we not only help themthrough the process, we tell
them who it could work for.
So when they go into designingtheir core products for the next
(30:16):
season, we've already shownthem how they can do this
effortlessly.
And then our report and ourwork with those brands become a
proof of concept for the C-suitewho didn't wanna hear from them
.
So I just wanted to throw thatin there because you're
absolutely on point with yourfeedback.
People are doing it for thenon-disabled gaze and guess what
(30:37):
?
You are not.
I think that people need totreat this as if they suddenly
became a person with a chronicillness or a disability.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
that's it, it would change themselves in that place.
Cool, it would change the wholegame, because the people that
are the most passionate that Ideal with they don't tell me at
first, but then they'll be like,yeah, my mother's a wheelchair
user, or my cousin, it's apersonal experience and they can
relate to that.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, and when it comes to clothes, like fashion
is confidence.
You know what I mean, and Idon't care.
When you get dressed up, you'relooking a mirror.
You're like, whoa wait, yourhair ain't even gotta be done.
I mean it does.
It brings a spark and it's alight that anyone should have
just to be able to feel good intheir clothes but also wanna be
(31:28):
seen in them.
And for me, my experience withit was that it does need more
work.
There should be more voiceswith the lived experiences, but
not only the lived experience.
When you're thinking of fashion,you need to get people in there
to actually know fashion.
Everybody isn't a fashionexpert or go out and just be
(31:48):
stylist or industries right.
You need to get people in there.
You need to get people withswag and all of this, because
that's how you get to change andunderstand what people wanna
wear.
If you're trying to like, say,for instance, there's the
generic colors, right, so thekhaki, the black and the blue,
(32:14):
for the most part, like you seea lot of stuff, they're not
really a lot of good colors andstuff and it's not swaggy, it's
just like let me throw this on,I don't even feel really
comfortable.
I don't even feel comfortablein adaptive clothes, like how
can I do you know?
And again, everything isn't foreverybody.
(32:35):
And even when you know that,through your design you should
specify it, so like, if you'regonna have a pair of pants for a
person in a wheelchair, youshould specify if it's gonna
work for a person that is mobileand independent in a wheelchair
.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
No more questions.
That's why we're here.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
They don't know those questions, Cause I'm like I've
wore pants that have Velcro onthe side but when I transferred,
the Velcro pop open, so thenthe preans are trying to fall
off of me.
So I'm like this doesn'tactually work for me, but I know
it will work for someone thatis in a wheelchair all the time.
It brings comfort level, it'seasier for them to access.
(33:15):
But if they're in it all thetime and not having to transfer
out and things, these pantsspeak to them.
But why can't you promote itthat way, Right Like instead-.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
They don't know.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
There you go, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I mean, this is not a diss.
I've had to learn things.
I've made mistakes.
You know I used to champion,you know, unless someone had a
heart, you know assistivetechnology to help their heart.
I was like, oh, magnetic,magnetic shirts.
And then my dad, who is now inneed of wearing and my dad was
(33:50):
clean, you know, he was suitedand booted.
He was like always clean, andthen he said I'm not ready for
those clothes.
Yet he could barely lift hisarm.
I'm like, daddy, you cannot, Ihave to help you.
This is literally what I do.
Do you want TMZ to show me nothelping, like my dad can't get
(34:13):
into the phone.
Look, but what he was sayingI've learned so much from him
and I've been in this game for along time and I want to
continue to learn what he wassaying is I don't identify with
that.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So let's just say that adaptive fashion need to
have some drip to it, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
And not only that, the people that are behind it
that are learning.
You know, stop telling people,stop talking and I say this with
love, and if I'm ever doingthis, call me out.
If you are in the fashion anddisability community, stop
telling people with disabilitiesthat they're going to help you
design a line that they don'tknow anything about garment
construction.
(34:54):
They know nothing about thethings that they should know.
You're like oh well, we knowthat, but they don't know.
You don't know.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
So, like for me, you know, mydad helped educate me and then I
had some other instances.
So I don't suggest, you know,magnetic tops.
I suggest tops with magneticsnaps.
(35:15):
Why the snap will stay in place.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Trust me, steph, my experience with them tops.
Oh Lord, I'd be out there inthe streets and my shirt done
popped open.
I'm like, oh man, this ain'teven a bed Like again.
It's not comfortable.
It looks great.
If you see the headline, you'reshinin' a thousand times,
You're thinkin' it's a goodthing, they buzz, but at the
(35:41):
same time, again, when you don'tget the insight, and even when
you do, you're not really tryingto change things.
If this model is workin' foryou, if it's work for you to get
people to be sympathetic to thecause and then give, because
that's what I found myself beingaround a lot of areas where
(36:04):
people are receiving funds tocreate things for people with
disabilities, and then what youcreate doesn't really even help
that individual as much as thefunds helped you.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
And yeah, fashion-wise stereotypes.
And that's what I mean by doingthings for the non-disabled
gaze.
If somebody is crying while youhappen people doing things, I
don't care what it is from apublic speaking perspective, for
any aspect, right, that's notwhat we're doing.
As a person with a disability,I don't want you crying for me,
(36:38):
feeling sorry for me.
I want you to finally see melike a black woman.
Don't tell me you can't seecolor, all this melanin you
missin' out.
You need to see color.
You need to understand that myblackness is a part of culture,
of American culture.
I am a black American woman.
Don't tell me you colorblind.
Don't tell me I'm differentlyable or you're not.
(37:01):
That I don't want to hear that.
That's not a compliment and Ithink that that's the issue.
We get people that are notdisabled, which is cool.
You can learn.
People know more than me thatare not disabled and have
studied and have PhDs in areas.
But if you don't understand theculture, if you don't sit down
and begin the conversation bylistening, it's not be able to
(37:22):
tell in your advocacy.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Honestly, steph, the way that I see it is you
referenced it earlier Mostindividuals, when they get
comfortable enough, they speakon having an individual in their
life with a disability.
And when I think about thedevelopment of these things by
non-disabled individuals,they're created off of their own
perception of the person theysee at home.
(37:45):
And if you already look at themas somebody debilitating,
you're not empowering them,you're not putting these clothes
on them, you're not trying tomake them look really fresh and
dressed and get out.
I definitely feel like evencertain people.
I'm still like where are thesekids that you speak up, you know
, like not being rude oranything, but if your story and
(38:05):
stuff come from the children youhave at home, then, hey, they
should be dipped out in theseclothes that you're working so
hard to push out and then youshould be sharing that and I
think that that brings a lot ofawareness, like you said, to
advocacy.
The advocacy is not that goodbecause your perception of the
(38:26):
people you have around you isn'tthat good.
You're just kind of justtagging on, jumping on, you're
jumping on a bandwagon, rightLike, and it's not allowing
those that are authentic withtheir mission and their passion
room.
It's not allowing them room orspace.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, and I have to say, was someone maybe listening
?
Is like, oh, there has to besomething positive.
I started with the positive andI am still hopeful.
That's why I am going to dothis until I feel like, ok, I'm
moving on to something else.
I think we advocate and I'mtaking responsibility for this I
(39:06):
have spent the last three yearswith my own medical struggles
with my dad and other peoplethat I love and care for.
We've got to change the culture.
We don't change culture bytelling people we need to change
culture.
We change culture by changingculture.
Like Issa Rae, I like to useher as an example.
(39:27):
She changed the way she showedthat black female characters are
three-dimensional.
We're not just these flat,we're all the same.
Boo, boo, boo, boo, boogirlfriend.
She gave us.
She didn't give us.
She showed the world who we are.
(39:48):
That has to happen throughedutainment, meaning that we
need to create the culture thatwe want to see.
I don't mean getting online andgoing only yeah, it's helpful
when Wes says, hey, this is whatit's like for me to transfer
into my car.
Some people don't even knowthat.
But beyond that, wes is nowhosting a show where you see him
(40:10):
with the baddest.
Cars like his cars are part ofyour thing.
So that's shifting the culture,because it's not only selling
people how oh man, this is okay,this is how he does that.
Oh, look at his, look at thesuite of cars, look at what he's
into while driving his car.
That changes perception fasterthan anything else that we can
do.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
No, true, it's not about what you can put on paper
and what you use to action, thatyou take and what you do, the
awareness that you bring to theeveryday life, the lived
experiences, because the livedexperiences going to amplify the
advocacy.
There are people withdisabilities out here living.
You know what I mean and ifthat was shown it would
definitely shift.
(40:51):
So, again, we definitely, likeyou said, I appreciate you
coming in and hitting it withthe positivity.
Again, my choice when it comesto clothing is what I like to
wear and what makes me, what'scomfortable to my body.
And even though everyonedoesn't make adaptive clothing,
(41:14):
I will say that there areclothing that I can adapt to and
it does compliment me.
Well, if there was, if morebrands and things understood
that, if they paid attention towhat they are selling also, they
would be able to know that itcan serve a certain group of
people.
Every product might not right,but most products can.
(41:36):
And so, again, that's the workthat you're doing is being able
to say, hey, yeah, these areclothing that can be or have
been created to your body, but Ican also go and tap into other
brands that have things that cancompliment you and maybe nail
that image or whatever thatyou're trying to portray.
(41:58):
So we appreciate your work,steph, and we love it.
And again, I can't wait to besuited and booted at my gala so
I get to tell you at first handon how this experience is.
But if you know my girl Loloshe was on the show before but
Lolo is a real great friend ofme and Steph Lolo everywhere and
(42:22):
from you know, if I'm notmistaken, steph is the one
that's making Lolo look good ineach and everything, and so if
you see Lolo, you definitely seeSteph, and Steph might not be
there, but them threads.
That was Steph, right, like.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
And I and I I've enjoyed my partnership with her
and I think I'm not sure whoyour audience is.
Who's listening to you.
Can you give me some insightinto who you think your audience
is, because I would love toshare something that I think
would be specific, that kind ofspoke to them?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I think my audience is pretty well rounded.
You know I have individualsthat tap into different subjects
.
Of course, the disabilitycommunity is pretty large, at
least a black disabled community.
I know there's a lot morepeople, but I know I gravitate
to a lot of people that looklike me, as well as
entrepreneurs and so on, so youdefinitely got some innovators
(43:19):
and creators that will belistening to this.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Okay.
Well, I really want to speak toany black designers, tailors
this is, in whole industryStylus.
We are finally putting togethera course.
I am not good at those writtencourt where you have to do them
on your own, so they will bevideo based and they will be
interactive, so we can startsharing the knowledge that I
(43:44):
have with people to help withstyling.
But, in addition, designers,man, let's do this.
I need to see more of you inthis space because the designs
come from the designers, the howpeople would tailor or do
things.
That's going to come from yourstyle aesthetic, and we need to
(44:05):
see different style aestheticand I don't see you in the rooms
, I don't see you at the eventand I want to see more BIPOC
stylus, more people, especiallyblack people.
This is a whole thing that Ifeel like is that's money on the
table?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
It is money on the table.
I appreciate you sharing blackpeople, black designers, anyone
that's in the fashion industryof color.
Tap into adaptive clothing.
Tap into this market to createclothing for people that are
just like you, that could justbe living a little different,
(44:44):
and just understand that.
If you're getting in this andyou're creative, I already know
you're creative, we know you'recreative and that's why we're
telling you to create some more,because you want to comment
that I'm the only or one of theonly I don't ever believe the
word only because the world istoo big.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
One of the only black fashion stylists for people
with disabilities would make mechuckle.
This woman, so cute, from Italyand was like, hi, I'm
researching the disabilitystylist.
I was like, oh, that's cute,she's in my language and she's
writing me asking me aboutinterviewing.
It's just adorable and so it isglobal.
(45:26):
But I don't see enough peoplethat look like me or you, wes,
that are saying this isimportant and that might lead to
the apprehension of ourcommunity to adopt and feel
comfortable with identifyingwith disability, because I'm
going to get you suckered andthings that make us really feel
like we already a minority.
(45:47):
We don't want anybody elseputting us down.
I've heard people say and thenI'm thinking well, that's kind
of a white supremacist way oflooking at things and that you
can't.
Are you a minority?
Are you at the bottom?
So I think that we need to kindof redefine individually
because no group is a monolithbut really redefine what it
(46:10):
means to be a black person,either serving people with
disabilities or being a full,functioning part of that
community.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Hmm, yeah, I think so .
I think that that's importantto highlight and allow people to
be aware of that.
Yeah, no, and I just thinkabout the whole the layers that
the black community deal with,and the reason why they lack of
(46:41):
acceptance is when it comes todisabled bodies, and then how
it's overlooked as we start toclimb, you know, and knowing
that our services couldliterally serve someone that's
in our community, right, andyeah, I think that's something
that, of course, we have to digin a lot deeper when it comes to
(47:03):
that subject, because a lot ofpeople might see the DEI
conversation going around and Ithink a lot of these
conversations are based on justthe white community, in a sense,
the hierarchy of theindividuals that are making
decisions, but it's alsograss-roated within your
community.
(47:23):
It's grass-roated within thepeople that are around you, and
so when you have, when you'retalking about black individuals
with disabilities, we're notlooking, you know, for
acceptance on the outside of thecommunity as much as we're
trying to be welcome within ourown community, and that
conversation isn't reallyprovided.
But I was just having aconversation with an
(47:45):
entrepreneur recently and I saidI have more issues trying to
find access into blackbusinesses than I have into any
other businesses and,unfortunately, as much as I want
to raise awareness and promotea product and even go to an
(48:05):
event most people and I get it.
We're just trying to get inwhere we can fit in, because we
don't have that many resourcesand opportunity.
I got it yeah.
But you can't forget the peoplethat are with you you know what
I mean and the people that wantto be involved in the way that
you amplify your brand and yourbusiness is to be able to
(48:27):
include everybody.
And as we're getting intoentrepreneurship and we're
seeing entrepreneurship getpushed more for black
communities, please includepeople with disabilities.
That is something that youdon't overlook, you know, and
that's something that you reallyshould find a way to create
(48:48):
service within a disabledcommunity with your products,
and I just think that isimportant.
There's a lot of innovationthat I see and there's a lack of
conversation around disabilityin the black community.
So, as I said, we will dig intothat conversation on another
day with a group of people, sothat we can have a collective
group of perspectives when itcomes to that.
(49:10):
But I do believe that it's nothard to see, and we have to look
at ourselves and look at ouradvocacy as the black community
and see if we're doing a goodenough job or can we do better,
and I think that a lot of peoplewill become aware of that.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
I think that I agree with you you need a variety of
perspectives.
We can definitely do better asa community.
I mean, I think anyone thatapproaches disability has to
humble themselves and understand.
You know, people withdisabilities weren't expected to
be running podcasts andcompanies and jumping in and out
(49:47):
of cars and transferring it.
You know that wasn't the plan.
Even wheelchairs aren't evenbuilt to be all industries.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
You know, you know this Wes.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, my fear is definitely.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah, you know, with the ADA and you know where we
are with that.
There's a court case that'sgoing before the Supreme Court,
supreme Court and quotations forme I'm sorry they've been
tripping lately so they getquotes.
It's going before them inOctober and what I'll say about
that case is the overall view ofthe case is that there, someone
(50:20):
brought you know this casesaying, hey, we shouldn't there,
shouldn't be able to be atester that tests to see if a
specific place is accessible ornot.
But what they don't understandis, duh, most people with
disabilities you know where I'mgoing Like they need to.
We have to have testers,because you've talked about
(50:43):
hotels, you've talked aboutdifferent things where they'll
say, oh yeah, this is ADAcompliant and we're like, yeah,
it's not really, it's just notbecause, either the shower head
is too high, the bench is toohard, like there are just so
many little nuances that ifpeople knew they would do better
(51:03):
.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Well, I just think that you know.
That's why I didn't get onyesterday and talk about the
anniversary of the ADA.
I'm really concerned about ifthe ADA will be fully gutted
after October.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Yeah, no, I definitely think that there's a
lot of concerns.
I didn't truly celebrate it,not to the level that I see a
lot of people.
I mean being a part of thiscommunity, being an advocate
within this community and seeinghow the intersections within
this community aren't reallybeing aligned with the voices
(51:36):
that are around.
Like, ada is serving a lot ofpeople, yes, it is making things
accessible and accommodating,even for me, but then, on the
other end, there's a lack ofawareness by just human beings
period, of even what that means,and so, with that, constant
barriers are created.
(51:57):
They're created, brothers,because of race, religion.
They're created because of theintersections if it's not on
race or religion, like there'sso many different barriers that
so, and what I mean by that is,say, people.
I see a lot of awareness aroundflights and airline travel and
that's cool, and I see a lot ofawareness and a lot of times
(52:19):
when I see people amplifying.
I guess my biggest thought islike, until you put a black
person in that room, you're notactually doing a good enough job
, because there's a lot of otherlayers of discrimination when
it comes to people withdisabilities that look different
than those that are trying toadvocate, and when you're not in
(52:39):
a, you haven't put yourself ina position to advocate for
everyone, no matter if they looklike you or not.
You think that way that youlook is the primary lens when it
comes to disability.
But when we get out intosociety they're like oh no, you
got a disability too.
And now you got those layers ofjudgment where people are
(53:00):
judging you because of the wayyou look.
They're on top of what you'reclaiming as a disability.
Don't get loud, right, becausenow that's another layer of
microaggression.
So I'm just sharing that,because when I do see a lot of
advocacy and I do see a lot ofwork, I have to stress to people
that it doesn't necessarilymean that it's serving me.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Right, and here's the thing I know we've been talking
about this, but the one thingthat I very rarely share in
public, because it's notsomething that I would even tell
people that you won't ever seeme doing this I will do this
stealth Like no one will knowthat I'm really doing this.
But the reason that I'm so, so,so passionate about this is
(53:42):
because what we can change hereI think about people that are
living in lovely places but theymay not have pavement so they
don't have access to wheelchairs.
I feel like every time we fighta fight or we advocate here,
not that here is better thanthere, that's not what I'm
saying, but when you put a lighton it, we can put a light on it
(54:05):
here, like me moving from theEast Coast to LA, right here
near Hollywood.
It's like the light that's onthe work that I do with Lolo and
other people now.
It's very different from thework when I was doing it off
camera, where people couldn'tsee it, and that's what's really
important to me.
What about people who are stillbeing put in orphanages?
(54:29):
I just saw something where Ithink it was somewhere in
Germany a child was.
They were institutional lies,because those are the people I
want my work to have such animpact that it will be
nonsensical to think thatsomeone that's born with any
disability visible I hate to sayinvisible, because disabilities
(54:51):
aren't really invisible that'skind of I know that's popular to
say, but I think those, I thinkpeople who don't have access to
have a loud voice, who willnever be on a plane, who will
never have an iPhone, who willnever not because they can't it
may not even be culturallysomething that they want to do,
(55:14):
but they still should haveaccess to comfort and be able to
emulate in a way, be able towork if they want to, like.
I think for me, at the end ofthe day, people that are
unhoused or overlooked, or thoseare the people that my work, I
really want to impact, becauseif we can shift culture and help
(55:38):
, you can't change anyone, butif you can help shift those
mindsets it can really have agreat impact on people.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
And I think that that kind of, just as we wrap this
up, when you look at fashion andyou look at the conversation
that we've had even though weveered off into one way and then
came back everything isimportant because when you
provide advocacy for someone andthey receive it, it allows that
(56:09):
person to become confidentwithin themselves and they find
more confidence by knowing whatthey have access to.
And when you do that, you'reallowing someone to now create
and define themselves.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Defining yourself allows you to go into the world
and create the reality despitethe reality that you're going
into.
But when you can't defineyourself, you're living based on
someone else's definition andyou're going into society and
facing the barriers that someoneelse has defined you to face,
(56:54):
and all we need is a voice.
All we need is someone to speakup.
So when that person can startto find themselves and define
themselves now they're in thosestores looking for some threads
that show their image right,that represent them in a better
way.
It allows them to give societya different way to view them.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
Right, and so, again, everything speaks Rather.
We're trying to push for moreADA laws rather we're trying to
push for more access.
Rather we're trying to makemore clothes fashionable.
What we're doing is trying togive the individual enough
options to be confident enoughwith their disabled body that
they can go out and definethemselves regardless of how you
(57:50):
see them, because they're goingto allow you to see them
differently.
At least, that's how I feelright.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
No, I would have to agree with that.
And the last thing I will sayis anyone can become a person
with a disability at any moment.
What would you want?
How would you want your closetto look?
What clothing would you wannahave access to?
Would you wanna pay $200 forsomething you really love and
(58:20):
then spend an extra 50 to 75,maybe sometimes upward to $125
extra dollars to have thattailor because they don't see
your humanity?
It's a part of seeing someone'shumanity, yeah absolutely,
(58:41):
steph.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
I really appreciate you joining me and locking in,
and, of course, we could havedefinitely did another hour with
this chat.
There's a lot to unpack when itcomes to fashion intersections
and disability, entrepreneurshipand disability, and I think
that we're gonna hone in on thatin some future projects soon.
Anyway, so you guys stay tunedfor that.
(59:03):
But how do people find you?
How do people learn more aboutcuratable?
How do people ask questionswhen it comes to fashion that
maybe we didn't get a chance tocover?
Speaker 2 (59:17):
Oh, I love that.
Well, they can hit me up onInstagram.
They can either find mepersonally at disability fashion
stylist, it's the same onthreads and Instagram, or they
can find curatable on Instagramor threads and we will be moving
(59:39):
into creating more content forLinkedIn so you'll also be able
to.
That's a real B2B focus for usthere, so you'll be able to ask
questions and hopefully getanswers.
I don't know about TikTok, butYouTube shorts definitely that
might happen.
(59:59):
I have a personal TikTok.
I just you know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
You know, Steph, at the end of the day, that's where
the advocacy is.
So you just have to look atTikTok as a way.
You just repurpose content andyou put the tick.
You just yeah, right, We'lltalk about it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
I just don't know that.
I love it for curatable, butI'm finding a way to maybe
advocate as Stephanie.
Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
If that makes sense.
So, and you know the more thatI kind of get back in the game
after being in my mind, a way ofit.
You know, I think that I'llfind my way.
But they can definitely find useven at curatablecom.
Send us a message there anddon't forget, pronounce the
(01:00:48):
eight C-U-R-A-B-L-E curatable.
That'll make it easy toremember.
We'd love to hear from you andyou can hit me up in my indirect
messages and, just you know,ask the question.
Questions that I'm not able toanswer is how do I address with
this particular chronic illness.
I would have to ask you maybe10, 20 more questions in order
(01:01:11):
to really be able to help you.
So if that's the type ofquestion you have, you might
need to book me for aconsultation.
That's a better way to handlethat.
But if you just wanna ask somegeneral questions that I can
then answer and maybe post foreverybody to have you know to be
to benefit from, I'm happy todo that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Absolutely All right, steph.
Well, thank you again.
Another episode of Out of theShadow podcast.
My name is Wesley Hamilton.
Thank you guys, appreciate itBye.
As we conclude anotherinspiring episode, I want to
remind you that success isn'tjust about the spotlight.
(01:01:51):
It's also about the shadows.
It's about the struggles weconquer, the unseen battles we
fight and the silent victorieswe claim.
I'm Wesley Hamilton and you'vebeen listening to Out of the
Shadows podcast, where weilluminate the stories of often
left untold.
Join me again next week as weventure back into the shadows
(01:02:11):
and bring another amazingindividual into the light.
Until then, remember, no storyis too small to inspire.
Keep fighting, keep winning andstay out the shadows PLAYING.
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