September 29, 2023 • 58 mins
Ever had to navigate a venue with a disability? Ever consider the challenges that disabled individuals face each day? Join me, Wesley Hamilton, as I sit down with my brave and inspiring friend, Anna Cyril, a spinal cord injury survivor turned passionate disability advocate. Together, we tackle the everyday nuances of living with a disability, from the vital importance of emergency preparedness to the often-overlooked aspects of attending events.
Anna sheds light on her personal journey, highlighting her educational challenges, her transition from high school to college, and how she's turned her experiences into a powerful voice for the disability community. We dive beneath the surface of air travel and explore it from the lens of a disabled passenger, uncovering the complexities and emotional toll of airline accessibility for wheelchair users. Anna's resilience and determination are a testament to the strength of the human spirit, and her story serves as a beacon of hope for all navigating life with a disability.
In our conversation, we underline the critical role of disability laws and debunk the myths surrounding them. We emphasize the need for advocacy and the potent influence that individual stories can wield in shattering societal barriers and promoting inclusivity. Anna's tireless advocacy for an accessible and inclusive future is the representation the disability community needs. So, listen in and join us on this enlightening journey, and let's build a more inclusive future together.
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Thank you for tuning in, and see you in the next episode!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
In a world where success often steals the
limelight, the stories thattruly inspire, that truly matter
, are left behind in the shadows.
I'm your host, Wesley Hamilton.
Welcome to the Out of theShadows podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
One of the most frequently asked questions that
I get is do I wish to walk again?
And it's not the fact that I'munable to use my legs, it's not
the fact that I can't run orjump or climb anymore.
It's the fact that there'sthese society barriers that are
preventing me from living a fulllife.
What's up everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
This is Wesley Hamilton.
Welcome to another episode ofOut of the Shadows, where I am
truly, truly, you know gratefulto have Anna.
I don't want to say your lastname wrong, I know I always
pronounce it the way I want.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, let'slike cover it now.
Say it one more time.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Cyril.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Cyril.
See, there we go right.
I'm like when people see it,when people see the name, I hear
people pronounce it all the waydifferent.
So I want to set the tone downand say you know what we're
going to have Anna mention herlast name.
But no, I'm grateful to haveAnna Cyril here.
She's a great friend of mineand we'll get that going here in
(01:30):
a second.
But if you don't know Anna,you're going to be truly
inspired by her story today.
Today's conversation isbasically focused on navigating
life after a spinal cord injury.
Me and Anna have kind of wentthrough a lot of trials and
tribulations when it comes toour injuries and we have become,
(01:52):
I would say, driving forces anddisability advocacy.
Anna does a lot of work when itcomes to social media, keynote
speaking and being more of aninfluence and not just an
influencer, and I think that herstory alone is something that
we can all learn from and thenunderstand that, even though
(02:12):
something traumatic can happento you, that you still have life
after it, and that life andthat path is whatever you create
for yourself.
It's not necessarily what youhave to see from other people.
It's truly what you have aheart for and what you create.
So again, thank you, anna, forbeing here and, you know, being
(02:33):
on this show with me.
I appreciate you and welcomeyou.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Oh, thank you, Wes.
That was such a warm welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Absolutely.
So you know, before we go tolike any details about your
story and really pushing outlike the things that you're
doing, I have a quick icebreakerfor you.
So I talk a lot aboutsuperpowers and I want to just
(02:59):
add so if you had a superpowerrelated to your disability
advocacy, what would it be andwhy?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh, that's a good question.
I never thought about when itconnects to the advocacy part.
I guess this relates to my workon social media, but just being
able to outreach to peopleeverywhere, like outside of just
my environment and the states,but like internationally being
(03:29):
able to connect with thosepeople.
So I guess the ability toaccess everyone and to spread a
message.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I love that.
I love that and I think you doa pretty great job at spreading
the message.
But, of course, for people thatdon't know the reason why you
have focused on disabilityadvocacy, we love you to kind of
take the floor and share alittle bit about your story.
What got you more intodisability advocacy and, yeah,
(03:59):
in the direction and path thatyou're on today.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, so, for those of you who don't know, I have a
spinal cord injury at T10 and Iacquired that disability in
August of 2015.
So I know both perspectives ofbeing a non-disabled person and
being a disabled person like Wes, and so when I acquired my
disability, there was a lot ofthings that I didn't know and I
(04:23):
know I was naive to believe that, like the disability community
was just affected with theirphysical limitations.
So my advocacy really sparkedwhen I recognized all the
barriers and far beyond thephysical barriers that we see in
society and in the community sothe attitudinal barriers, the
societal barriers, justeverything that relates to that
(04:46):
and I realized that there is nota lot of people who feel like
or confident to speak up forthis huge minority group, and so
I wanted to be able to be therepresentation that we don't
really have in this community,and I thought the best way to do
so is to tap into keynotepublic speaking and also doing
(05:07):
social media blogging.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh, I love that and, of course, I've seen the journey
, I've seen the work and I'veseen the passion behind the work
and I like the fact that youmentioned how some people just
don't have the voice andconfidence to be able to speak
up and advocate for themselves.
And a lot of that is projectedoff of society's perceptions of
(05:31):
the feeding value that societyviews people with disabilities.
That sometimes can take awayyour voice and for anyone that's
watching to understand, when itdoes come to individuals like
Anna that have the courage to goout and be an advocate, there
are still barriers that shefaces when she goes out there.
(05:54):
She's just willing to be thevoice for those that haven't
been heard and so, again, justunderstanding the power of
disability advocacy, becausethose that are doing the work
are literally doing the workdespite the societal barriers
that are still there every daythat we're trying to remove and
(06:16):
still haven't been able toremove, like that's what it is
right.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, I love what you said because it I mean like it's
true that we disability oradvocacy work can get exhausting
and though I'm putting myselfin uncomfortable positions, I
recognize it's far beyond justme and it's more like the
community and a lot of peoplearound the world are affected by
(06:41):
disability advocates and how,what, the change that they're
trying to implement in society.
So I know West also leads bythat philosophy, but I think
it's why we connect so well.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Absolutely so.
So, even taking it from thatright Like, of course, I want
people to know like you, yes,you're a huge disability
advocate, you're making greatimpact on your social media, and
all of that, but how old wereyou when you acquired your
disability?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So I was 14 years old , about to be 15.
And that was my freshman yearof high school, and so ever
since that point on, my wholetrajectory changed, like anyone
else's that has acquired aspinal cord injury, and so it's
led to the person I am today.
Now I'm what?
Seven and a half yearspost-injured?
(07:35):
And so I've gained a lot ofwisdom and insights from not
only from my personal experience, but from the community and
what they've shared and thementors that are in this
community, the huge mentors likeWes.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
OK, so let's take it there You're 14, you're injured,
you're just getting into highschool, like, of course, one of
the things that I'm very proudthat you have accomplished is
graduating from college, and Ithink that that's important to
share because, as people doacquire their injuries at any
(08:12):
time of their lives, I thinkyour story has a significant
impact on those that might notthink that they should continue
education, especially when itcomes to the barriers and
workforce, the barriers inschooling, even the
accessibility in college anduniversities.
Yes, there is issues, but at thesame time, I think that talking
(08:37):
about that journey, talkingabout what was navigating
through high school as well, asyou were injured, practicing for
a competition and trying to getand become this huge star, in a
(08:57):
sense, when it came to thatlane that you were in.
So, I think, just sharing that,because I think we could talk
about how much confidence wehave now and how we're
navigating and being a voice,but I think it's important to be
a voice for those that aretrying to explore education,
even college.
You push through, even thoughyou had challenges, and I think,
(09:22):
yeah, so let's just share thatnavigating high school and
college.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I mean.
So.
I just graduated with mybachelor's in psychology and a
lot of disabled students don'tpursue higher education and
that's because of all thebarriers that we face.
You have to be a self-advocateand be able to reach out to the
Disability Resource Center andsay, hey, these are the
(09:48):
accommodations that I need forme, as a disabled student, to be
successful in your university.
And that was hard to fullyestablish within me of being
able to vocalize what I need andwhere I need it.
And I think that's a huge part.
I actually almost made, or I'mabout to upload, a post about
what it's like to be a disabledstudent and attending a
(10:11):
university.
And there's just everywherefrom physical barriers when it
comes to Hills.
So I'm based in Kansas and Iwent to University of Kansas,
which is the main campuses inLawrence, and Lawrence, like
Kansas, is one of the mostflatest states, but for some
reason Lawrence is super hilly,not accessible whatsoever.
(10:35):
So I actually attended anothercampus with the University of
Kansas and that's based inJohnson County area and this
county is fairly flat, but Icould only imagine going to the
main campus and pushing thathill from one building to the
next, because they're not allconnected and there's not always
(10:56):
an accessible route.
So you have to also count forthe fact that we see all four
seasons here in Kansas, so snowand rain and thunderstorms, and
hail and winds all of that andthey're all placed at role in
your manual wheelchair user.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And I like emphasizing the manual
wheelchair user at the endbecause I think we'll talk a
little bit about the work behindADA and accessibility.
But a lot of access to me asbeing a manual wheelchair user
is created for people that arein power chairs, because the
(11:35):
hills aren't barriers forsomeone that has power behind
their wheels but for anindependent user that is trying
to be more flexible as well asknowing the difference of
wheelchairs.
So a power wheelchair is muchlike we're going to be a lot
more bulkier.
A manual wheelchair is going toone be smaller, narrow, but it
also can be pulled apart for themost part and broken down.
(11:57):
So just so people can know thedifference.
But after my injury I ended upgoing to Johnson County
Community College and it wasjust that factor.
It was hills.
That was very challenging and Iwas still new in my injury and
people always joke about how myarms got so big.
I'm probably like them hillsthat I had to push up, but
(12:19):
outside of that, elevators attimes didn't work.
You might have had to go to awhole other side of campus to be
able to get an operatingelevator, which required you to
push longer, and I think thatit's just important for people
to understand that when you'relooking at your college campus,
is your college campus actuallyaccessible to people that have
(12:41):
disabilities, like, and then itcan be created for someone that
has limited mobility to acertain extent, but is there
access for wheelchair users?
Is there convenient access forwheelchair users?
And even if it's not, are youraccommodations actually
something that someone canactually access?
(13:03):
Because even havingaccommodations, but I call the
line and nobody answers doesn'thelp me.
Or if it's raining, right, like, and I have to do all this
pushing in my manual chair, issomebody going to come and pull
an umbrella up?
Or am I going to have to go toclass soaking wet Because there
wasn't systems in place thatactually served me as well?
(13:25):
And I think that society avoidsthese barriers because there
are certain things that arecreated to limit our ability to
access.
Like, why would I put a personwith disability in an education
system when majority of societythinks that you receive a check
and that's the rest of your life, right, like, you get social
(13:48):
security, disability, somethinglike that.
But it's 2023, people and thepandemic, let everybody know
that they can have opportunity,no matter their limitations.
So, if you're sitting at homeall day working a good job.
A person with disability can dothe same thing, and maybe they
just need education to be ableto advance, like you.
(14:09):
But they can't get theeducation because of the
barriers that are in place.
That just came from thestructure, right?
The infrastructure itself wasjust created where it didn't
include everybody, right?
So again, kudos to you forbeing able to take those
challenges and show I don't know.
(14:31):
To me it's knowing you andknowing your journey, it feels
good to see you graduate fromcollege and be able to set the
tone differently, because, Imean, you have individuals that
lose their jobs.
They don't go back to work,right, like you still were
ambitious enough to pursuesomething more, Right?
(14:54):
So let's think about that.
Right, like being able topursue school, being able to
graduate.
A lot of that has to come froma support system.
Some of the reason why peopledon't have confidence after
their spinal cord injuriesbecause of the lack of support.
Sometimes the support comesfrom your community, and then it
(15:16):
can come from outside yourcommunity as well, and so
understanding that can reallyhelp you become more or find
yourself in a deeper hole.
So can you talk a little bitabout the importance of not only
a support system, but communityas well.
With the spinal cord injury.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, my family, I mean.
They shielded me from a lot ofthings, the second that I was
injured, but also allowed me tofail, so that I can see that I
have the resilience that I needto get through challenges that
society is going to throw at me.
But they were the ones who weregrounding me and reminding me
that I can do far more than whatsociety has limited me to do.
(15:58):
Getting connected with thespinal cord injury community was
crucial in making this like asmooth transition from being
non-disabled to now disabled.
Because, I mean, I'm sure youcould relate to this West, but,
like those early injured dayswhere we didn't want to speak to
another wheelchair user, andwhen you're in those early
stages and you're isolated inyour bedroom, now told that
(16:20):
you're not going to be able towalk again and that you're going
to be a part of the wheelchairuser community, the last thing
you want to do is associate withdisability, because of the
narrative that society hasdrafted about this community and
it's oftentimes a negativeconnotation and so I think it
(16:42):
took me a couple of months torealize that there's so much
power in the disabilitycommunity and with the spinal
cord injury community, they werethe ones who were giving me the
resources and the tips andtricks and the lived experience
that my therapist could neverprovide for me, though they went
through all this education.
I don't want to downplay theirrole too, because they're very
(17:03):
profound in the way that Itransitioned, but community is
everything.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And it's not downplaying anybody, it's not.
I think lived experiences dobring more knowledge and it can
help someone grow or evolve fromtheir current circumstances.
It's that representation factor, like if the college
institutions were moreaccessible, maybe we'll have
(17:29):
more PTs and OTs that havedisabilities.
Right, I'm just saying or likeyou never know.
You never know, right, that's agood point.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, I never thought of that.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
We can definitely be in every field in life, right
Like, we can definitely find away to have an impact in every
field if there's access to getthere, if there's access for
that education.
Right Like, again, everythingcomes back to access.
It's not the fact that I don'twant to go, it's that am I going
to have barriers that preventme from being my full, complete
(18:06):
self?
Because it's creating anxiety.
You know it creates instantdepression sometimes when you
face a barrier.
Right Like, you go somewhereand someone's like hey, let me
carry you.
You're like, oh, my goodness,like just that word, like I can
pick you up, like are youserious?
And then you have tocontemplate, like is this what I
(18:28):
really want to do?
Can I trust this person?
And again, so you have thesemoments that if I can't just
roll in somewhere and haveaccess to be confident, then I
have all these underliningissues that will come up real
quick that can alter, like, mylearning experience or my growth
(18:48):
experience.
Right Like, it goes into notjust schooling, it goes into the
gym.
Right Like, I'm sure, as you'vebeen in physical fitness and
doing these things, like I'msure you've went into a gym
where some of the things arehard to access so it limits your
workout for that day.
Sometimes you know you can askfor help, but most people know
(19:10):
how to gym is.
A lot of people stick tothemselves and if you are a
person with disability you'reprobably more inspiring and
somebody want to help you, right, like they.
Just it's a different tone.
But again, if I go in there totry to push myself to get to a
certain level, the only barrierI have is the access there,
(19:32):
right.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I can go and be pushing, but when I go somewhere
, what am I facing?
So let's so.
Have you ever had experienceoutside of, like you know, the
gym and the college where youknow you've you faced a barrier
and it just kind of made youfeel some type of way Like
literally, like this straighttransparency?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Oh, yes, I mean like this has affected my social life
and as someone who's veryextroverted, I find myself
having to ask the person,whoever I'm hanging out with,
what is the location that youwant to meet at?
And then having to do my ownresearch about is it truly
accessible?
Because it's one thing for awebsite to say yes, it's
(20:18):
accessible, but does that reallymeet all the requirements of
every disabled person to be ableto access that building?
And I feel like it relates tothis illustration that this one
advocate drew out and I can'trecall what their name was, but
she said society will say shecan't get in the building
(20:39):
because of her being in awheelchair and reframing that to
be.
She can't get into the buildingnot because she's in a
wheelchair, but because thebuilding's lack of access.
It's not her fault that she'sin a wheelchair, it's the fault
that disability is often theafterthought and we are not
accounted for.
And we see that every day wherethere's steps in a building and
(21:01):
there's no access and indirectlyit will communicate to us
you're not welcome here, you'renot thought of here, and we
don't want to enter thosebuildings and we don't want to
support those businesses thatwon't support us on being able
to be independent, because thelast thing that we want is to go
out of our way and go down theback alley to access the store,
(21:21):
like we all know, thosebusinesses where, or restaurants
where they're like yes, we'reaccessible, but what you have to
do is you have to go across thestreet and pass the garbage
cans and through the kitchen,and then you'll be able to find
your seat, and we just want tobe able to enter the space that
(21:42):
every other non-disabled personcan enter.
That's all you want.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I really love where you took this.
I do, because what you did wasyou added that social aspect and
, of course, we started off witheducation, the gym.
These are things to make youfeel good, build yourself, to
have a better quality of life,right, right?
What about social right?
(22:09):
And most people don'tunderstand that the barriers
when it comes to going out, likeyeah, I'm not as extroverted as
you, but I do like to get outand I do like to have fun.
But I also find myself Googlemapping a location, reading
through the final lines to seeabout the accessibility, looking
(22:31):
at the picture, going in acircle, like I mean, it's so
much extra work just to go to alocation, compared to a lot of
my peers that can just go in andwalk in and I'm not a fan of
going in a back of anything.
So if you ask me or tell me thatyour access is the back and
going through a kitchen, I'm notgoing Right, like I'm just it
(22:53):
puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Like it is just do better,right.
Like, do better, hire somebodythat can help you.
You know, create somethingdifferent.
You know, sometimes youoverthink access and I think
having that's where that livedexperience and reaching out to
someone that has that knowledgeor have that lived experience
(23:16):
that help you become moreaccessible, make sense, then you
avoiding it and then you knowhaving someone like me or Anna
come with a group of friends andit's like you know no way to
get in and then even add intothat because I'm out here in LA,
and LA has a does a great jobwith checking the box off, right
(23:38):
, if you have stairs.
They got lifts, they gotelevators, all these different
things all around here, but dothey work?
I can't tell you how many timesI've been stuck on a lift out
here, you know, or the elevatorsdon't work, and I think that's
that's also another layer tobarriers.
(24:00):
Right, like you, let me come inand then don't include me,
right, like, just because I'minside doesn't mean I can mingle
like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And it makes it awkward.
I appreciate you sharing that,Anna, because that's so
important.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Oh, it's crucial, and I mean, like we were just
talking about me and Wes aretalking about this one space in
downtown and being able toaccess the rooftop, which the
rooftop doesn't have an elevator, and that's very unfortunate
because a lot of people want tobe able to see rooftops and go
to the skylines and that's wheresocial life thrives off of.
So, like not being able toaccess this one part of a
(24:41):
building that everyone wants toattend is is a struggle, and we
it's.
I mean, I can only speak onbehalf of me, but if I'm in
those situations, I don't wantmy friends to feel limited on
where they can go just because Ican't access it.
So it's hard, because it's,it's a struggle sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
But seriously I think and that's the other like, who
are you surrogate if you're notcreating access to for all right
and and a lot, of, a lot oftimes?
I think that question isn'treally pushed out or people do
think of it as an afterthought.
You know we can go back andforth on accessing or grading
(25:21):
companies and businesses inKansas City might come one day.
So you better start looking out.
But seriously, because I thinkmost people don't understand and
I remember going into abuilding trying to book their
space.
They had a phenomenal rooftopand you know they didn't have
access to it.
But this organization does a lotof community work.
(25:44):
There's a lot of work when itcomes to you host many events.
And my first question was Idon't even see in your business
model that you serve kids withdisabilities and I don't see it.
And the structure andinfrastructure of your building
highlights that right like andbecause and it kind of came from
a being invited to an eventgoing and they had all the
(26:08):
festivities on the roof and I'mlike can I get up there?
and they like we can carry youup to the.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And like this is like and it's one of those things,
right.
But before this is thisexperience that I want to
highlight.
I was doing a keynote speech atthe Nelson Atkins Museum and it
was nothing on you, so I wantto share the location because
museums are very, you know,modern.
(26:40):
Got up there, got up to thelocation speaking, did my thing,
but somebody just messaged meand made me think about it and
probably like, closer to the endof my keynote, yeah, the fire
line goes off, right.
And I'm like, okay, please tellme this is a drill, because if
(27:01):
you don't know, if you're in awheelchair and the fire line
goes off, you cannot access theelevator.
Well, I'm sure you guys know,because you walk down the stairs
, right, but for us we have tosit by the elevator and wait on
someone to come and carry usdown, right, and so in this
situation I couldn't use theelevator.
(27:23):
The stairs that was going upwardvery narrow and after maybe
about five minutes of the alarm,like one of the staff members
come up like it's not a drill,and I was like, oh my God.
So I had to have like two guysthat carried me down the stairs.
Long story short, the guyreached out to me recently and
was like, yeah, man, I tore mypeck or something carrying you
(27:44):
down the stairs and and it to me.
I'm like see, we're in theworld's not prepared people do
things that maybe they're notcomfortable doing to help us be
served and it creates an injuryor something on your end, like I
didn't.
I felt bad because I mean, hewas just someone that wanted to
watch it.
Of course, this was years ago,so I'm like why you know you're
(28:06):
sharing with me now, right, butat the same time, it made me
think about it.
It's like sometimes we'reputting people in positions that
they're not even comfortablefor the barriers of access and
the things around us, and soit's like, yeah, like, and that
was just a normal sit like, andthen I then, as soon as we got
down to downstairs, it was adrill.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I caught the elevator back upstairs to finish my
keynote.
It was the most awkwardsituation and but it was about
access.
The whole event was aroundaccess, so it is just literally
shed light to the barriers thatwe face, and then the
afterthought of certain thingsthat you know when it comes to
events and it comes to put us ina position to speak, right.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
So no, emergency preparedness is like huge in my
eyes.
I remember when I was in highschool and we went on lockdown
because there was an activeshooter in the building and all
these people were talking.
I was on the second floor soI'm like gosh, how am I going to
get from my classroom to theelevator, downstairs, through
the entire building to exit?
(29:17):
And everyone was talking aboutlike it wasn't as serious
because we were able to maintainit, but everyone was talking
about like I'm going to breakthis window, I'm just going to
jump and I'm like what am Isupposed to do?
Everyone can run and whenyou're in that position, it it
terrifies you as a user and as adisabled person.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So, just speaking on behalf of that, I was just
another story that came with myyou know you give me like a you
know a generator generatedelevator that's always to the,
you know, in the back of thebuilding, that's like for
emergency only Because it is.
It's one of those scary thingsand I think when people have
(29:57):
those conversations about youknow situations where there's
emergency, so you know whetherwise, or you say I have an
active shooter, these are.
These are concerns that peoplewith disabilities, especially
wheelchair users, that also havethose levels of barriers,
regardless of where you areright like I think I seen
(30:17):
someone make a post and onTwitter and they were in a
wheelchair, they were in like ahotel and maybe they were in.
New York and they probably wason like the 50th floor or
something and like the firealarm went off and so it's like
even that of like having accessto the hotel.
Of course we all want the topfloor, we want to look at things
(30:39):
, but we also have to be in caseof an emergency.
We got to wait on emergencypeople to come in and walk up 50
flights of stairs just to carryme down, because that's where I
am right.
Like it makes you think of allthe things that have been
overseen right.
Like it makes you go into,unfortunately, like a lot of
(31:00):
people don't talk about it, butyou know there was a lot of
people with disabilities thatyou know lost their lives in the
911 thing because there wasmeasures that prevented them
from coming down all thoseflights of stairs.
And so, again, like you know,being mindful of what access
really looks like.
Because, yeah, you give me upto the top, but what's your and
(31:21):
your methods of emergency?
And do you actually havegenerous staff and vulnerable
staff and empathetic staff thatwill sit there with me?
Because when I've seensituations happen, I feel like
I'm the only one on the floor,like I don't even have people
come up to be like hey, man, yougood, no, they outside right
like.
(31:41):
So I mean even that of makingyou feel alone in a situation
that's out of your control.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Right, right, and that has led to us just always
being very aware of where theexits are and what is happening.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
It's not.
Signage is very important.
If you have an institution, anorganization, always show
signage.
I look for signage all the timethat explains exactly what I
need to do.
I was in like New Orleans andone of the hotels basically just
said in case of emergency, thisis where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And I'm like.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I didn't even know they could make a sign like that
and I'm like you know what,they know where I am if I come
right here, but if I go right,it was a good feeling Alright.
So no thanks, like we definitely.
I feel like these are great,important conversations when it
comes to people, you know, thatdo have spinal cord injuries or
(32:39):
in a wheelchair, because a lotof people talk the conversation
or they talk about accessibility, but most people project or
assume that all wheelchair usersare the same.
You know what I mean and so youknow when we're talking about
spinal cord injury and some ofthese barriers this is barriers
(33:00):
for individuals that don't haveno mobility, can't get out of
their chairs you know thatreally use their chairs as a
source of their legs and whatthose barriers look like you
know.
So some of your work is aroundthe airport and the airlines and
, of course, I've done my ownPost around it, but you took it
(33:20):
to a whole another level, right,like.
So come explain to me, evenwhen it comes to accessibility
in an airport as well as theplane, like what were the steps
that you did and what was someof the things that you learned
about airline and access?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
mm-hmm.
I took a recent poll in myInstagram about what are the
things that you don't talk aboutwith your disability.
That is Overlooked, and one ofthe main common trends that I
saw was about airlines and aboutair access and how Tricky it is
to navigate that space becauseof the statistic of what?
(33:58):
2422 Mobility devices beingdamaged or lost by airlines
every day.
That's a significant amount.
I mean there should.
That's 24 too many.
So when I took it upon myself toreally highlight all the
challenges that we navigate inthe airline airport and on the
airplane, I really wanted tohighlight what it's like to be a
(34:20):
passenger who is stripped awayfrom their legs and fully having
to trust a stranger to Bringtheir legs down and to the
bottom of the plane, secure itto make sure that luggage is and
everything won't bump into itif turbulence does come across,
and Making sure that that evengets down to the plane, because
(34:42):
there are horror stories thatexist about mobility devices
being left at the gate and then,once the passenger arrives at
destination, they are stuck atthe airport because they don't
have their legs anymore.
So when I One of my most recentvideos that went, that went
viral, as it should, because ithighlighted a lot of this
advocacy work.
I talked about seat-strappingmy Manual chair onto the
(35:07):
airlines on board, and thatisn't seen very often and I do
believe that sometimes it isimportant to highlight that
power chair users most of thetime have it worse because of
people laying it down on theside when they're not supposed
to and and mishandling it andnot having all these proper
measures to ensure that it'll bekept in one piece and brought
(35:30):
back to the user the exact waythat it was brought to them.
So that was a whole thing andI'm sure that I can talk forever
about this, but it's veryimportant to talk about when it
comes to when we're thinkingabout law and politics of Just
air travel for disabledpassengers.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
So one thing that I recently seen on an article.
It stated that within ADA,airline wasn't included.
Yes and so Once I saw that, itmade me understand why the fight
is so hard.
Right, like at first, you'relike oh this supposed to be a
(36:13):
part of?
Ada right like in, and so evenlearning and educating yourself
on that Can make you advocatedifferently right?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yes, I think I learned.
I might be wrong, but I believethat the airport is supported
by the ADA, and then the gatewayto the air or to the the plane.
Plus, the plane is covered bythe air carriers Act, which I'm
still trying to familiarizemyself with.
But, like all that,transportation is Is um, very
(36:45):
complex, so I'm trying to likedo my research about what
exactly that entails.
So it's, it's crazy, though,because it's, I mean, like ADA
is probably one of the most wereMost familiar with, and the
fact that that's not alsoaccounted for with airports is
huge.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, and you know.
So what are some of yourmethods when traveling that you
do to ensure you know that youdo make your wheelchair does get
to you and that is in the samecondition that it that it left
you?
Speaker 2 (37:17):
so addressing the loss of making sure that my
mobility device isn't lost, Iadd an apple tracker onto my
wheelchair and then I can lookat my phone to make sure that
when the plane is moving, mychair is also moving, because
that means that's under in cargoand that measure, I mean it's
it's funny that we have to dosuch thing, because there are
(37:40):
these instances where they havebeen left behind, and then to
ensure that it is in one pieceand that it is exactly how I
left it, I take a videodocumentation of a 360, my
entire chair, and people havedone photos before.
I think I found video to be themost helpful because I'm able to
get all the little aspects andthen I can take screenshots for
(38:03):
whenever if I do have to reportit.
And I need that documentation.
But to show how the wheel ismoving because sometimes, most
of the times, when it comes toManual wheelchair users, it's
the front casters that getdamaged the most or the brakes
that get damaged the most,because those are the ones that
are protruding and that aresticking out but to show how the
wheel is moving, that it isn'tcausing any issue for the
(38:24):
wheelchair user.
I mean just the whole, thewhole 360 of the chair and even
flipping it upside down to showEvery aspect of the chair Is
crucial.
It's crazy that we have to dothat, like right before the
airline or right before that weget on board so people now think
about this.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
You have the largest minority group that's in the
world, you know, people withdisabilities.
Right now we're talking aboutspinal cord injuries, so
individuals that use thewheelchair for the most part,
and other other factor in thisis that majority of these people
are on fixed incomes.
Um, majority of theseindividuals don't have the best,
(39:05):
you know support system All allthe way around.
Right, my point is we stillhave to go and purchase an air
tag To make sure that yourwheelchair comes back and comes
to you properly and safely,because of the lack of
(39:25):
understanding and the lack ofeducation that goes into
training and the individualsthat are working with our, our
mobility devices.
But then you have to take timeto record right like and take
pictures of your device just tomake sure it comes back in the
same piece.
Now, I'm not saying that, youknow it's a bad thing to
(39:48):
document, but what I'm saying isthat everyone doesn't have the
mobility that myself or Anna has.
Right, spinal cord injurystarts at the Top of your spine
all the way to the bottom ofyour spine and so, depending on
where your injured Speaks, onyour level of mobility.
And again, everyone doesn't havethat ability.
(40:09):
So it's important to sharethese factors because I think in
a lot of things we end upspending more money to be
accommodated.
I even Took note recently ofbooking for a hotel and realized
that all the ADA rooms causemore and again.
I'm good with that if societydoesn't have to perceive that we
(40:32):
aren't supposed to beself-sufficient.
Right, because, again, like, ifyou know people with
disabilities and are gettingcertain funding, access and
ability to to have and do allthe things everyone else can do,
and the cool Prices is prices,but when it comes to
accommodation and access, you'repaying more.
(40:54):
You're paying more for theconvenience, right, like,
instead of having someone thatcreates it in their model, that
just creates a level of accessor, you know, safety or Safety
or comfortability, right?
So yeah.
I think that is important.
I just want people to know,like you know, living as well,
(41:14):
life Comes with a lot of, lot ofcosts and a lot of heartaches
sometimes when, when you justwant to be independent and live
freely right.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
One of the most frequently asked questions that
I get is do I wish to walk again?
And it's not the fact that I'munable to use my legs, it's not
the fact that I can't run orjump or climb anymore.
It's the fact that there'sthese Society barriers that are
preventing me from living a fulllife.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yes, I mean society barriers, and when you think
about societal barriers, youhave to think it's not just the
that starts right, right, butthen I always say, like you can
be inclusive, but are you right?
So your whole facility can belike the airport?
The airport to extend isaccessible.
(42:04):
I still have my views about it,but A lot of the staff aren't
knowledgeable when it comes toaccess or disability, so you're
missing a layer.
Right, you know like you'remissing something that can
actually serve more, because mecoming into the airport and
knowing that you have a, a tinyseat that can get me on the
(42:26):
airplane, but then you have twostaff members that don't even
know how to lift me up, doesn'treally work for me.
Right, and again, like, for me,I have the strength.
For Anna, she has the strength,but for someone that can have a
higher injury or even new intheir injury, that one
experience, it can be their lastexperience, and you hear many
(42:49):
horror stories of people withdisabilities that are mishandled
and a lot of differentprofessions.
Right, and I'm not the personto hear my bad or I'm sorry,
because the the everlasting painand and and effects of dropping
someone in a wheelchair Goesbeyond your apology.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Hmm, mm-hmm, it's scary, sometimes it's terrifying
and we are mentally scarred.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
It creates all these levels of anxiety, like you
don't want to do this again.
You go like, uh, like it's,it's a lot, it's a lot and I
want people to understand it.
And we haven't even talked onpain, right, like we have any
talk barriers on, like naturalpain that you get from nerves
(43:40):
and things like that all we'vebeen literally having the
conversation about right now andits access and being included
in societal barriers, and Ithink people need to understand
how compact and like this thisconversation is, because All of
these underlining things to beliving life and free and
independent, and you haven'teven got to your injury yet,
(44:03):
like you haven't even been ableto explain, okay, well, this is
what I deal with as having afinal court injury, right, it's
like we're talking about justgetting out outdoors, right?
So one thing that I do want toacknowledge, anna, is you being
a substitute teacher.
Um, because, again, your, yourlife, oh, your life is amazing
(44:28):
because you, you're shiftingwhat people think, right, like,
of course, we're in sports andAnna's a A bad ass when it comes
to fitness and stuff.
Trust me, I tried to, reallydid, but I mean from Navigating
high school to graduatingcollege, to being an advocate
(44:51):
and a keynote speaker and allthese other things, but having a
passion to be a substituteteacher right, talk about that.
Talk about what is your normalrange of ages that you use
substitute and what is yourexperiences and what are you
trying to teach the youththrough your just organic work
(45:12):
of being a teacher.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, so I wear a lot of hats, like Wes said keynote
speaker, social media blogger,model substitute teacher and
with every role I find that I'mstill advocating and one of the
biggest things in my eyes is tobe able to educate the youth
about how to truly build aninclusive and diverse and
(45:37):
accessible future.
So when I stepped into thisrole, I've been a substitute
teacher for about four years nowand I primarily see early
education, so K through five,and with each classroom that I'm
stepping into, I'm devotingfive minutes to do disability
101 with these kids, the peopleor these children, to provide
(46:01):
them information that I wishsociety taught, such as
disability etiquette, teachingthem that the word disability
isn't a bad word.
And then, far beyond that,about accessible parking spots
and how crucial they are becausetheir parents will often pick
them up from them, and that's awhole other topic of itself.
(46:23):
And then also just accessiblebathroom stalls and making sure
that we leave that bathroomstyle available for people who
need it, because the last thingthat we wanna do is go into a
bathroom when we really need togo to the bathroom and then see
that all the stalls are openexcept for the accessible one,
but I'll wait 10 minutes forsomeone to do whatever they're
(46:47):
doing in the bathroom stallsWe'll often see teenagers just
filming TikToks in the bathroomand the big bathroom stalls
altogether, or we've seen which.
This isn't mother's faults butthe changing station being in
the accessible stall and havingthem having to change their baby
, and that's not their fault.
But when we think aboutaccessibility and design, that's
(47:10):
not a part of what thisinclusive design looks like,
because now we're waiting for amother to change their baby and
them having to wait for us sothat they could change their
babies.
So vice versa.
But also in the classrooms Italk about the importance of hey
, you can talk to disabledpeople and we are very friendly
(47:33):
just like anyone else.
So, opening that conversationbecause I know that oftentimes
their parents, more often thannot, will say no, don't stare, I
mean don't ask these questionslike shy them away from
disability and the conversationof disability, which is part of
the reasons why we see adultswho very visibly show discomfort
(47:54):
about when sharing, like closeproximity with a disabled person
and we can point out everynonverbal behavior that shows
that they weren't open to theconversation of what it means to
be disabled and share spacewith disabled individuals.
So I do a lot with them andthey always have the most
curious things to say and I loveit because, again, I think that
(48:17):
it's really important toreiterate that it's okay that we
have curious minds and I wantto really point out that when
you have those curious momentsin children, to not shy them
away from that, to invite themto maybe start that conversation
with a disabled person and ifthat disabled person doesn't
wanna share, then to respectthat and then say address the
(48:41):
child hey, like they didn'twanna talk about it.
Sometimes you don't wanna talkabout things and that's okay.
Why don't we go home and do ourown research online so that we
know what it's like to servethese people?
So Mm.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Such good gems right there, anna, so good.
I love being around kids too.
They're very unapologetic andthey have all the questions that
once you become an adult oreven an adolescent, you don't
ask anymore.
And I've learned that itchanges their perception
instantly when you can literallyjust have a conversation or
(49:19):
answer questions that make themsee us right, like outside of
the way that their parents do.
Cause a lot of people'sexperience are based off of
someone else's opinions orperception about the disabled
community and so being able toyeah, so being able to sit in
front of children andorganically just teach them Like
(49:41):
so I guess that leads me intothe next question, cause I think
that's a great, great pointthat you make about teaching
kids.
What steps would you like tosee society take to become more
accessible and inclusive?
Speaker 2 (49:56):
I would love for them to get educated and look at
their inner circle and includedisabled voices in that, so that
we can build a world that'sempathetic and that knows all of
these different lens and anglesof life, so that we're starting
to look for it in the realworld and we're joining allyship
(50:20):
to the disabled community andbeing advocates.
On calling out business, Ishouldn't say calling out, I
don't like calling out, I likecalling in better Cause.
Calling in stands a lot more ofwhat I'm trying to do Calling
in businesses about the barriersthat they may have overlooked.
So I think it's important, withevery keynote that I end with,
(50:42):
I stress the importance ofnon-disabled becoming allies to
the disability community or evenadvocates or activists.
I mean, like those havedifferent degrees and levels,
but to somehow look at theirinner circle, look at you know
their feed on Instagram andsocial medias and making sure
that they're intentionallyadding diverse voices in it so
(51:05):
that they can know how to serveother people in the world.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
I love that.
I love that.
So, if you don't have diversevoices on your feed on social
media, we look in.
Yes, and it's important to havethat visual representation, but
it's also important to makesure that you are having
conversations with people thathave disabilities so that you
can truly see your business,your institution, your
(51:33):
organization, serve all.
And if you can't serve all,having an understanding on the
language to utilize when itcomes to maybe your
accountability of lack of accessor barriers can help other
people feel still includedbecause you're holding
transparency.
Because, of course, somebuildings are grandfathered in
(51:55):
as a term right, like, of course, I'm not a fan of it, but
sometimes that can be.
That's an excuse.
It's an excuse, but being openwith someone can let them know.
But then also, let's find asolution together.
Let's don't even based on justthis one term or something that
we know.
Let's figure out how we canwork together to create a more
(52:17):
inclusive future Right.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Right, right, and having a solution.
I actually learned.
So I attended the ADA symposium, which is the most
comprehensive conference aboutdisability laws and it's a four
day event and I just got backfrom it and I learned and took
away so much from that.
But one of the things that Ireally learned was that there's
(52:39):
no such thing as yourgrandfather clause.
So you're actually under theADA, even though your foundation
and structure may be builtalong before the ADA, you're
supposed to have some kind ofsolution to be able to serve
disabled people, to access yourbusiness or facility.
And that was like I mean, likethere's so many times where I
(53:03):
tolerated that, like I'm someone, a business will say, well,
we're grandfathered in and I'mlike okay.
And so I'm like, okay, guess wehave to go somewhere else.
But no, that's actually a myththat exists and we're tolerating
it because we don't know.
And it's huge to have thatknowledge, because now I'm
looking at businesses and saylike where's the ramp that you
(53:25):
guys are supposed to provide, oranything like that.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
That was so good.
That was so good.
And like thank you foreducating me at this moment,
because I'm getting too nicewith that term.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, no, I mean I'm gonna do more research it and
I'm still digesting all theinformation I got from this
weekend, but, oh my gosh, thatjust changed my entire
perspective of that term and howpeople use it.
So I just wanted to includethat because I think it's
important for people to alsoknow.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
No, absolutely, and I you know, at least from my
understanding, when I visitedLondon for the first time, they
had buildings that they wouldhave mentioned being some type
of grandfathered in, but theymade accommodations to create
access.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
And so, yes, the structure could have been, but
you still create access.
I have a good friend that makesa point that she says you're
creating a world that youwouldn't wanna live in.
And if everybody's going toexperience disability at some
point of their life.
If you're not creating accessfor me, you're hindering access
(54:32):
for you, your family members orsomeone that you know now or in
the future.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Disability does not discriminate.
It does not discriminate Right.
Listen.
If you live long enough, youtoo will be affected by this.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
You too.
So, as we end, share somepoints that you will want the
community to know about spinalcord injury, and then you know,
for those that could have aspinal cord injury, what would
be your last words for them aswell.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yes, oh, the advice piece.
I always get this question and Ithink it always reflects where
I am at life at the moment, andso my biggest advice would be,
if you're comfortable, to reallytap in to becoming an advocate
and educating yourself ondisability laws, because I
didn't realize how many lawsthere were that just support us,
(55:29):
and it goes far beyond the ADA.
I mean you have, like, the ABAand all these other ones that
can support and help us navigatethis world.
But also just to like, ifyou're in those early injured
days, to really just be able togrieve and sit with yourself and
(55:51):
sit with these emotions, causeI think it's so crucial that we
do so.
I remember so many times I wasfed like toxic positivity and I
never really processed myemotions, and as someone who's a
mental health advocate, I thinkit's crucial that we do so,
because it'll show up in thefuture if we don't.
So that and like also getconnected with this amazing
(56:14):
community.
I mean there's a lot of us andthere's a lot of us that are
doing amazing and incrediblethings.
So once you open your lens torealizing that, your life
changes.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, community, finding yourtribe right, finding your tribe
and being the change you wish tosee.
So advocacy, you know, if youdon't see change, you can be
that change, you can be thevoice.
And one thing I would leavewith for everybody is just that
you know we are not thecircumstances that we're
(56:48):
currently in.
We are what we set to be andbecome, and so, no matter what
position or place you are inlife at the moment, you can
become so much more.
Life is about growth, soimagine how much you can evolve
daily if you push yourself, takethe baby steps to understanding
(57:09):
and acknowledging all of you,so that you can pour you out
into the world organically andauthentically and become a
change just by doing that.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Right.
I don't know why I love that.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
All right, anna, but thank you so much for tapping in
and chatting Again.
Thanks everybody for tapping in.
Until the next time, I'm out ofthe shadows, doses.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Thank you guys, thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
And as we conclude, another inspiring episode, I
want to remind you that successisn't just about the spotlight.
It's also about the shadows.
It's about the struggles weconquer, the unseen battles we
fight and the silent victorieswe claim.
I'm Wesley Hamilton and you'vebeen listening to Out of the
Shadows, where we illuminate thestories often left untold.
(58:00):
Join me next week as I ventureback into the shadows and bring
another amazing individual intothe light.
Until then, remember, no storyis too small to inspire.
Keep fighting, keep winning andstay out of the shadows.
L introduction.
In a world where success often steals the
limelight, the stories thattruly inspire, that truly matter
, are left behind in the shadows.
I'm your host, Wesley Hamilton.
Welcome to the Out of theShadows podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
One of the most frequently asked questions that
I get is do I wish to walk again?
And it's not the fact that I'munable to use my legs, it's not
the fact that I can't run orjump or climb anymore.
It's the fact that there'sthese society barriers that are
preventing me from living a fulllife.
What's up everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
This is Wesley Hamilton.
Welcome to another episode ofOut of the Shadows, where I am
truly, truly, you know gratefulto have Anna.
I don't want to say your lastname wrong, I know I always
pronounce it the way I want.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, let'slike cover it now.
Say it one more time.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Cyril.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Cyril.
See, there we go right.
I'm like when people see it,when people see the name, I hear
people pronounce it all the waydifferent.
So I want to set the tone downand say you know what we're
going to have Anna mention herlast name.
But no, I'm grateful to haveAnna Cyril here.
She's a great friend of mineand we'll get that going here in
(01:30):
a second.
But if you don't know Anna,you're going to be truly
inspired by her story today.
Today's conversation isbasically focused on navigating
life after a spinal cord injury.
Me and Anna have kind of wentthrough a lot of trials and
tribulations when it comes toour injuries and we have become,
(01:52):
I would say, driving forces anddisability advocacy.
Anna does a lot of work when itcomes to social media, keynote
speaking and being more of aninfluence and not just an
influencer, and I think that herstory alone is something that
we can all learn from and thenunderstand that, even though
(02:12):
something traumatic can happento you, that you still have life
after it, and that life andthat path is whatever you create
for yourself.
It's not necessarily what youhave to see from other people.
It's truly what you have aheart for and what you create.
So again, thank you, anna, forbeing here and, you know, being
(02:33):
on this show with me.
I appreciate you and welcomeyou.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Oh, thank you, Wes.
That was such a warm welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Absolutely.
So you know, before we go tolike any details about your
story and really pushing outlike the things that you're
doing, I have a quick icebreakerfor you.
So I talk a lot aboutsuperpowers and I want to just
(02:59):
add so if you had a superpowerrelated to your disability
advocacy, what would it be andwhy?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Oh, that's a good question.
I never thought about when itconnects to the advocacy part.
I guess this relates to my workon social media, but just being
able to outreach to peopleeverywhere, like outside of just
my environment and the states,but like internationally being
(03:29):
able to connect with thosepeople.
So I guess the ability toaccess everyone and to spread a
message.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I love that.
I love that and I think you doa pretty great job at spreading
the message.
But, of course, for people thatdon't know the reason why you
have focused on disabilityadvocacy, we love you to kind of
take the floor and share alittle bit about your story.
What got you more intodisability advocacy and, yeah,
(03:59):
in the direction and path thatyou're on today.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, so, for those of you who don't know, I have a
spinal cord injury at T10 and Iacquired that disability in
August of 2015.
So I know both perspectives ofbeing a non-disabled person and
being a disabled person like Wes, and so when I acquired my
disability, there was a lot ofthings that I didn't know and I
(04:23):
know I was naive to believe that, like the disability community
was just affected with theirphysical limitations.
So my advocacy really sparkedwhen I recognized all the
barriers and far beyond thephysical barriers that we see in
society and in the community sothe attitudinal barriers, the
societal barriers, justeverything that relates to that
(04:46):
and I realized that there is nota lot of people who feel like
or confident to speak up forthis huge minority group, and so
I wanted to be able to be therepresentation that we don't
really have in this community,and I thought the best way to do
so is to tap into keynotepublic speaking and also doing
(05:07):
social media blogging.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Oh, I love that and, of course, I've seen the journey
, I've seen the work and I'veseen the passion behind the work
and I like the fact that youmentioned how some people just
don't have the voice andconfidence to be able to speak
up and advocate for themselves.
And a lot of that is projectedoff of society's perceptions of
(05:31):
the feeding value that societyviews people with disabilities.
That sometimes can take awayyour voice and for anyone that's
watching to understand, when itdoes come to individuals like
Anna that have the courage to goout and be an advocate, there
are still barriers that shefaces when she goes out there.
(05:54):
She's just willing to be thevoice for those that haven't
been heard and so, again, justunderstanding the power of
disability advocacy, becausethose that are doing the work
are literally doing the workdespite the societal barriers
that are still there every daythat we're trying to remove and
(06:16):
still haven't been able toremove, like that's what it is
right.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, I love what you said because it I mean like it's
true that we disability oradvocacy work can get exhausting
and though I'm putting myselfin uncomfortable positions, I
recognize it's far beyond justme and it's more like the
community and a lot of peoplearound the world are affected by
(06:41):
disability advocates and how,what, the change that they're
trying to implement in society.
So I know West also leads bythat philosophy, but I think
it's why we connect so well.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Absolutely so.
So, even taking it from thatright Like, of course, I want
people to know like you, yes,you're a huge disability
advocate, you're making greatimpact on your social media, and
all of that, but how old wereyou when you acquired your
disability?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So I was 14 years old , about to be 15.
And that was my freshman yearof high school, and so ever
since that point on, my wholetrajectory changed, like anyone
else's that has acquired aspinal cord injury, and so it's
led to the person I am today.
Now I'm what?
Seven and a half yearspost-injured?
(07:35):
And so I've gained a lot ofwisdom and insights from not
only from my personal experience, but from the community and
what they've shared and thementors that are in this
community, the huge mentors likeWes.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
OK, so let's take it there You're 14, you're injured,
you're just getting into highschool, like, of course, one of
the things that I'm very proudthat you have accomplished is
graduating from college, and Ithink that that's important to
share because, as people doacquire their injuries at any
(08:12):
time of their lives, I thinkyour story has a significant
impact on those that might notthink that they should continue
education, especially when itcomes to the barriers and
workforce, the barriers inschooling, even the
accessibility in college anduniversities.
Yes, there is issues, but at thesame time, I think that talking
(08:37):
about that journey, talkingabout what was navigating
through high school as well, asyou were injured, practicing for
a competition and trying to getand become this huge star, in a
(08:57):
sense, when it came to thatlane that you were in.
So, I think, just sharing that,because I think we could talk
about how much confidence wehave now and how we're
navigating and being a voice,but I think it's important to be
a voice for those that aretrying to explore education,
even college.
You push through, even thoughyou had challenges, and I think,
(09:22):
yeah, so let's just share thatnavigating high school and
college.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I mean.
So.
I just graduated with mybachelor's in psychology and a
lot of disabled students don'tpursue higher education and
that's because of all thebarriers that we face.
You have to be a self-advocateand be able to reach out to the
Disability Resource Center andsay, hey, these are the
(09:48):
accommodations that I need forme, as a disabled student, to be
successful in your university.
And that was hard to fullyestablish within me of being
able to vocalize what I need andwhere I need it.
And I think that's a huge part.
I actually almost made, or I'mabout to upload, a post about
what it's like to be a disabledstudent and attending a
(10:11):
university.
And there's just everywherefrom physical barriers when it
comes to Hills.
So I'm based in Kansas and Iwent to University of Kansas,
which is the main campuses inLawrence, and Lawrence, like
Kansas, is one of the mostflatest states, but for some
reason Lawrence is super hilly,not accessible whatsoever.
(10:35):
So I actually attended anothercampus with the University of
Kansas and that's based inJohnson County area and this
county is fairly flat, but Icould only imagine going to the
main campus and pushing thathill from one building to the
next, because they're not allconnected and there's not always
(10:56):
an accessible route.
So you have to also count forthe fact that we see all four
seasons here in Kansas, so snowand rain and thunderstorms, and
hail and winds all of that andthey're all placed at role in
your manual wheelchair user.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And I like emphasizing the manual
wheelchair user at the endbecause I think we'll talk a
little bit about the work behindADA and accessibility.
But a lot of access to me asbeing a manual wheelchair user
is created for people that arein power chairs, because the
(11:35):
hills aren't barriers forsomeone that has power behind
their wheels but for anindependent user that is trying
to be more flexible as well asknowing the difference of
wheelchairs.
So a power wheelchair is muchlike we're going to be a lot
more bulkier.
A manual wheelchair is going toone be smaller, narrow, but it
also can be pulled apart for themost part and broken down.
(11:57):
So just so people can know thedifference.
But after my injury I ended upgoing to Johnson County
Community College and it wasjust that factor.
It was hills.
That was very challenging and Iwas still new in my injury and
people always joke about how myarms got so big.
I'm probably like them hillsthat I had to push up, but
(12:19):
outside of that, elevators attimes didn't work.
You might have had to go to awhole other side of campus to be
able to get an operatingelevator, which required you to
push longer, and I think thatit's just important for people
to understand that when you'relooking at your college campus,
is your college campus actuallyaccessible to people that have
(12:41):
disabilities, like, and then itcan be created for someone that
has limited mobility to acertain extent, but is there
access for wheelchair users?
Is there convenient access forwheelchair users?
And even if it's not, are youraccommodations actually
something that someone canactually access?
(13:03):
Because even havingaccommodations, but I call the
line and nobody answers doesn'thelp me.
Or if it's raining, right, like, and I have to do all this
pushing in my manual chair, issomebody going to come and pull
an umbrella up?
Or am I going to have to go toclass soaking wet Because there
wasn't systems in place thatactually served me as well?
(13:25):
And I think that society avoidsthese barriers because there
are certain things that arecreated to limit our ability to
access.
Like, why would I put a personwith disability in an education
system when majority of societythinks that you receive a check
and that's the rest of your life, right, like, you get social
(13:48):
security, disability, somethinglike that.
But it's 2023, people and thepandemic, let everybody know
that they can have opportunity,no matter their limitations.
So, if you're sitting at homeall day working a good job.
A person with disability can dothe same thing, and maybe they
just need education to be ableto advance, like you.
(14:09):
But they can't get theeducation because of the
barriers that are in place.
That just came from thestructure, right?
The infrastructure itself wasjust created where it didn't
include everybody, right?
So again, kudos to you forbeing able to take those
challenges and show I don't know.
(14:31):
To me it's knowing you andknowing your journey, it feels
good to see you graduate fromcollege and be able to set the
tone differently, because, Imean, you have individuals that
lose their jobs.
They don't go back to work,right, like you still were
ambitious enough to pursuesomething more, Right?
(14:54):
So let's think about that.
Right, like being able topursue school, being able to
graduate.
A lot of that has to come froma support system.
Some of the reason why peopledon't have confidence after
their spinal cord injuriesbecause of the lack of support.
Sometimes the support comesfrom your community, and then it
(15:16):
can come from outside yourcommunity as well, and so
understanding that can reallyhelp you become more or find
yourself in a deeper hole.
So can you talk a little bitabout the importance of not only
a support system, but communityas well.
With the spinal cord injury.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, my family, I mean.
They shielded me from a lot ofthings, the second that I was
injured, but also allowed me tofail, so that I can see that I
have the resilience that I needto get through challenges that
society is going to throw at me.
But they were the ones who weregrounding me and reminding me
that I can do far more than whatsociety has limited me to do.
(15:58):
Getting connected with thespinal cord injury community was
crucial in making this like asmooth transition from being
non-disabled to now disabled.
Because, I mean, I'm sure youcould relate to this West, but,
like those early injured dayswhere we didn't want to speak to
another wheelchair user, andwhen you're in those early
stages and you're isolated inyour bedroom, now told that
(16:20):
you're not going to be able towalk again and that you're going
to be a part of the wheelchairuser community, the last thing
you want to do is associate withdisability, because of the
narrative that society hasdrafted about this community and
it's oftentimes a negativeconnotation and so I think it
(16:42):
took me a couple of months torealize that there's so much
power in the disabilitycommunity and with the spinal
cord injury community, they werethe ones who were giving me the
resources and the tips andtricks and the lived experience
that my therapist could neverprovide for me, though they went
through all this education.
I don't want to downplay theirrole too, because they're very
(17:03):
profound in the way that Itransitioned, but community is
everything.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And it's not downplaying anybody, it's not.
I think lived experiences dobring more knowledge and it can
help someone grow or evolve fromtheir current circumstances.
It's that representation factor, like if the college
institutions were moreaccessible, maybe we'll have
(17:29):
more PTs and OTs that havedisabilities.
Right, I'm just saying or likeyou never know.
You never know, right, that's agood point.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, I never thought of that.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
We can definitely be in every field in life, right
Like, we can definitely find away to have an impact in every
field if there's access to getthere, if there's access for
that education.
Right Like, again, everythingcomes back to access.
It's not the fact that I don'twant to go, it's that am I going
to have barriers that preventme from being my full, complete
(18:06):
self?
Because it's creating anxiety.
You know it creates instantdepression sometimes when you
face a barrier.
Right Like, you go somewhereand someone's like hey, let me
carry you.
You're like, oh, my goodness,like just that word, like I can
pick you up, like are youserious?
And then you have tocontemplate, like is this what I
(18:28):
really want to do?
Can I trust this person?
And again, so you have thesemoments that if I can't just
roll in somewhere and haveaccess to be confident, then I
have all these underliningissues that will come up real
quick that can alter, like, mylearning experience or my growth
(18:48):
experience.
Right Like, it goes into notjust schooling, it goes into the
gym.
Right Like, I'm sure, as you'vebeen in physical fitness and
doing these things, like I'msure you've went into a gym
where some of the things arehard to access so it limits your
workout for that day.
Sometimes you know you can askfor help, but most people know
(19:10):
how to gym is.
A lot of people stick tothemselves and if you are a
person with disability you'reprobably more inspiring and
somebody want to help you, right, like they.
Just it's a different tone.
But again, if I go in there totry to push myself to get to a
certain level, the only barrierI have is the access there,
(19:32):
right.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
I can go and be pushing, but when I go somewhere
, what am I facing?
So let's so.
Have you ever had experienceoutside of, like you know, the
gym and the college where youknow you've you faced a barrier
and it just kind of made youfeel some type of way Like
literally, like this straighttransparency?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Oh, yes, I mean like this has affected my social life
and as someone who's veryextroverted, I find myself
having to ask the person,whoever I'm hanging out with,
what is the location that youwant to meet at?
And then having to do my ownresearch about is it truly
accessible?
Because it's one thing for awebsite to say yes, it's
(20:18):
accessible, but does that reallymeet all the requirements of
every disabled person to be ableto access that building?
And I feel like it relates tothis illustration that this one
advocate drew out and I can'trecall what their name was, but
she said society will say shecan't get in the building
(20:39):
because of her being in awheelchair and reframing that to
be.
She can't get into the buildingnot because she's in a
wheelchair, but because thebuilding's lack of access.
It's not her fault that she'sin a wheelchair, it's the fault
that disability is often theafterthought and we are not
accounted for.
And we see that every day wherethere's steps in a building and
(21:01):
there's no access and indirectlyit will communicate to us
you're not welcome here, you'renot thought of here, and we
don't want to enter thosebuildings and we don't want to
support those businesses thatwon't support us on being able
to be independent, because thelast thing that we want is to go
out of our way and go down theback alley to access the store,
(21:21):
like we all know, thosebusinesses where, or restaurants
where they're like yes, we'reaccessible, but what you have to
do is you have to go across thestreet and pass the garbage
cans and through the kitchen,and then you'll be able to find
your seat, and we just want tobe able to enter the space that
(21:42):
every other non-disabled personcan enter.
That's all you want.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I really love where you took this.
I do, because what you did wasyou added that social aspect and
, of course, we started off witheducation, the gym.
These are things to make youfeel good, build yourself, to
have a better quality of life,right, right?
What about social right?
(22:09):
And most people don'tunderstand that the barriers
when it comes to going out, likeyeah, I'm not as extroverted as
you, but I do like to get outand I do like to have fun.
But I also find myself Googlemapping a location, reading
through the final lines to seeabout the accessibility, looking
(22:31):
at the picture, going in acircle, like I mean, it's so
much extra work just to go to alocation, compared to a lot of
my peers that can just go in andwalk in and I'm not a fan of
going in a back of anything.
So if you ask me or tell me thatyour access is the back and
going through a kitchen, I'm notgoing Right, like I'm just it
(22:53):
puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Like it is just do better,right.
Like, do better, hire somebodythat can help you.
You know, create somethingdifferent.
You know, sometimes youoverthink access and I think
having that's where that livedexperience and reaching out to
someone that has that knowledgeor have that lived experience
(23:16):
that help you become moreaccessible, make sense, then you
avoiding it and then you knowhaving someone like me or Anna
come with a group of friends andit's like you know no way to
get in and then even add intothat because I'm out here in LA,
and LA has a does a great jobwith checking the box off, right
(23:38):
, if you have stairs.
They got lifts, they gotelevators, all these different
things all around here, but dothey work?
I can't tell you how many timesI've been stuck on a lift out
here, you know, or the elevatorsdon't work, and I think that's
that's also another layer tobarriers.
(24:00):
Right, like you, let me come inand then don't include me,
right, like, just because I'minside doesn't mean I can mingle
like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And it makes it awkward.
I appreciate you sharing that,Anna, because that's so
important.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Oh, it's crucial, and I mean, like we were just
talking about me and Wes aretalking about this one space in
downtown and being able toaccess the rooftop, which the
rooftop doesn't have an elevator, and that's very unfortunate
because a lot of people want tobe able to see rooftops and go
to the skylines and that's wheresocial life thrives off of.
So, like not being able toaccess this one part of a
(24:41):
building that everyone wants toattend is is a struggle, and we
it's.
I mean, I can only speak onbehalf of me, but if I'm in
those situations, I don't wantmy friends to feel limited on
where they can go just because Ican't access it.
So it's hard, because it's,it's a struggle sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
But seriously I think and that's the other like, who
are you surrogate if you're notcreating access to for all right
and and a lot, of, a lot oftimes?
I think that question isn'treally pushed out or people do
think of it as an afterthought.
You know we can go back andforth on accessing or grading
(25:21):
companies and businesses inKansas City might come one day.
So you better start looking out.
But seriously, because I thinkmost people don't understand and
I remember going into abuilding trying to book their
space.
They had a phenomenal rooftopand you know they didn't have
access to it.
But this organization does a lotof community work.
(25:44):
There's a lot of work when itcomes to you host many events.
And my first question was Idon't even see in your business
model that you serve kids withdisabilities and I don't see it.
And the structure andinfrastructure of your building
highlights that right like andbecause and it kind of came from
a being invited to an eventgoing and they had all the
(26:08):
festivities on the roof and I'mlike can I get up there?
and they like we can carry youup to the.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And like this is like and it's one of those things,
right.
But before this is thisexperience that I want to
highlight.
I was doing a keynote speech atthe Nelson Atkins Museum and it
was nothing on you, so I wantto share the location because
museums are very, you know,modern.
(26:40):
Got up there, got up to thelocation speaking, did my thing,
but somebody just messaged meand made me think about it and
probably like, closer to the endof my keynote, yeah, the fire
line goes off, right.
And I'm like, okay, please tellme this is a drill, because if
(27:01):
you don't know, if you're in awheelchair and the fire line
goes off, you cannot access theelevator.
Well, I'm sure you guys know,because you walk down the stairs
, right, but for us we have tosit by the elevator and wait on
someone to come and carry usdown, right, and so in this
situation I couldn't use theelevator.
(27:23):
The stairs that was going upwardvery narrow and after maybe
about five minutes of the alarm,like one of the staff members
come up like it's not a drill,and I was like, oh my God.
So I had to have like two guysthat carried me down the stairs.
Long story short, the guyreached out to me recently and
was like, yeah, man, I tore mypeck or something carrying you
(27:44):
down the stairs and and it to me.
I'm like see, we're in theworld's not prepared people do
things that maybe they're notcomfortable doing to help us be
served and it creates an injuryor something on your end, like I
didn't.
I felt bad because I mean, hewas just someone that wanted to
watch it.
Of course, this was years ago,so I'm like why you know you're
(28:06):
sharing with me now, right, butat the same time, it made me
think about it.
It's like sometimes we'reputting people in positions that
they're not even comfortablefor the barriers of access and
the things around us, and soit's like, yeah, like, and that
was just a normal sit like, andthen I then, as soon as we got
down to downstairs, it was adrill.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I caught the elevator back upstairs to finish my
keynote.
It was the most awkwardsituation and but it was about
access.
The whole event was aroundaccess, so it is just literally
shed light to the barriers thatwe face, and then the
afterthought of certain thingsthat you know when it comes to
events and it comes to put us ina position to speak, right.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
So no, emergency preparedness is like huge in my
eyes.
I remember when I was in highschool and we went on lockdown
because there was an activeshooter in the building and all
these people were talking.
I was on the second floor soI'm like gosh, how am I going to
get from my classroom to theelevator, downstairs, through
the entire building to exit?
(29:17):
And everyone was talking aboutlike it wasn't as serious
because we were able to maintainit, but everyone was talking
about like I'm going to breakthis window, I'm just going to
jump and I'm like what am Isupposed to do?
Everyone can run and whenyou're in that position, it it
terrifies you as a user and as adisabled person.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
So, just speaking on behalf of that, I was just
another story that came with myyou know you give me like a you
know a generator generatedelevator that's always to the,
you know, in the back of thebuilding, that's like for
emergency only Because it is.
It's one of those scary thingsand I think when people have
(29:57):
those conversations about youknow situations where there's
emergency, so you know whetherwise, or you say I have an
active shooter, these are.
These are concerns that peoplewith disabilities, especially
wheelchair users, that also havethose levels of barriers,
regardless of where you areright like I think I seen
(30:17):
someone make a post and onTwitter and they were in a
wheelchair, they were in like ahotel and maybe they were in.
New York and they probably wason like the 50th floor or
something and like the firealarm went off and so it's like
even that of like having accessto the hotel.
Of course we all want the topfloor, we want to look at things
(30:39):
, but we also have to be in caseof an emergency.
We got to wait on emergencypeople to come in and walk up 50
flights of stairs just to carryme down, because that's where I
am right.
Like it makes you think of allthe things that have been
overseen right.
Like it makes you go into,unfortunately, like a lot of
(31:00):
people don't talk about it, butyou know there was a lot of
people with disabilities thatyou know lost their lives in the
911 thing because there wasmeasures that prevented them
from coming down all thoseflights of stairs.
And so, again, like you know,being mindful of what access
really looks like.
Because, yeah, you give me upto the top, but what's your and
(31:21):
your methods of emergency?
And do you actually havegenerous staff and vulnerable
staff and empathetic staff thatwill sit there with me?
Because when I've seensituations happen, I feel like
I'm the only one on the floor,like I don't even have people
come up to be like hey, man, yougood, no, they outside right
like.
(31:41):
So I mean even that of makingyou feel alone in a situation
that's out of your control.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Right, right, and that has led to us just always
being very aware of where theexits are and what is happening.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
It's not.
Signage is very important.
If you have an institution, anorganization, always show
signage.
I look for signage all the timethat explains exactly what I
need to do.
I was in like New Orleans andone of the hotels basically just
said in case of emergency, thisis where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
And I'm like.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I didn't even know they could make a sign like that
and I'm like you know what,they know where I am if I come
right here, but if I go right,it was a good feeling Alright.
So no thanks, like we definitely.
I feel like these are great,important conversations when it
comes to people, you know, thatdo have spinal cord injuries or
(32:39):
in a wheelchair, because a lotof people talk the conversation
or they talk about accessibility, but most people project or
assume that all wheelchair usersare the same.
You know what I mean and so youknow when we're talking about
spinal cord injury and some ofthese barriers this is barriers
(33:00):
for individuals that don't haveno mobility, can't get out of
their chairs you know thatreally use their chairs as a
source of their legs and whatthose barriers look like you
know.
So some of your work is aroundthe airport and the airlines and
, of course, I've done my ownPost around it, but you took it
(33:20):
to a whole another level, right,like.
So come explain to me, evenwhen it comes to accessibility
in an airport as well as theplane, like what were the steps
that you did and what was someof the things that you learned
about airline and access?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
mm-hmm.
I took a recent poll in myInstagram about what are the
things that you don't talk aboutwith your disability.
That is Overlooked, and one ofthe main common trends that I
saw was about airlines and aboutair access and how Tricky it is
to navigate that space becauseof the statistic of what?
(33:58):
2422 Mobility devices beingdamaged or lost by airlines
every day.
That's a significant amount.
I mean there should.
That's 24 too many.
So when I took it upon myself toreally highlight all the
challenges that we navigate inthe airline airport and on the
airplane, I really wanted tohighlight what it's like to be a
(34:20):
passenger who is stripped awayfrom their legs and fully having
to trust a stranger to Bringtheir legs down and to the
bottom of the plane, secure itto make sure that luggage is and
everything won't bump into itif turbulence does come across,
and Making sure that that evengets down to the plane, because
(34:42):
there are horror stories thatexist about mobility devices
being left at the gate and then,once the passenger arrives at
destination, they are stuck atthe airport because they don't
have their legs anymore.
So when I One of my most recentvideos that went, that went
viral, as it should, because ithighlighted a lot of this
advocacy work.
I talked about seat-strappingmy Manual chair onto the
(35:07):
airlines on board, and thatisn't seen very often and I do
believe that sometimes it isimportant to highlight that
power chair users most of thetime have it worse because of
people laying it down on theside when they're not supposed
to and and mishandling it andnot having all these proper
measures to ensure that it'll bekept in one piece and brought
(35:30):
back to the user the exact waythat it was brought to them.
So that was a whole thing andI'm sure that I can talk forever
about this, but it's veryimportant to talk about when it
comes to when we're thinkingabout law and politics of Just
air travel for disabledpassengers.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
So one thing that I recently seen on an article.
It stated that within ADA,airline wasn't included.
Yes and so Once I saw that, itmade me understand why the fight
is so hard.
Right, like at first, you'relike oh this supposed to be a
(36:13):
part of?
Ada right like in, and so evenlearning and educating yourself
on that Can make you advocatedifferently right?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yes, I think I learned.
I might be wrong, but I believethat the airport is supported
by the ADA, and then the gatewayto the air or to the the plane.
Plus, the plane is covered bythe air carriers Act, which I'm
still trying to familiarizemyself with.
But, like all that,transportation is Is um, very
(36:45):
complex, so I'm trying to likedo my research about what
exactly that entails.
So it's, it's crazy, though,because it's, I mean, like ADA
is probably one of the most wereMost familiar with, and the
fact that that's not alsoaccounted for with airports is
huge.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, and you know.
So what are some of yourmethods when traveling that you
do to ensure you know that youdo make your wheelchair does get
to you and that is in the samecondition that it that it left
you?
Speaker 2 (37:17):
so addressing the loss of making sure that my
mobility device isn't lost, Iadd an apple tracker onto my
wheelchair and then I can lookat my phone to make sure that
when the plane is moving, mychair is also moving, because
that means that's under in cargoand that measure, I mean it's
it's funny that we have to dosuch thing, because there are
(37:40):
these instances where they havebeen left behind, and then to
ensure that it is in one pieceand that it is exactly how I
left it, I take a videodocumentation of a 360, my
entire chair, and people havedone photos before.
I think I found video to be themost helpful because I'm able to
get all the little aspects andthen I can take screenshots for
(38:03):
whenever if I do have to reportit.
And I need that documentation.
But to show how the wheel ismoving because sometimes, most
of the times, when it comes toManual wheelchair users, it's
the front casters that getdamaged the most or the brakes
that get damaged the most,because those are the ones that
are protruding and that aresticking out but to show how the
wheel is moving, that it isn'tcausing any issue for the
(38:24):
wheelchair user.
I mean just the whole, thewhole 360 of the chair and even
flipping it upside down to showEvery aspect of the chair Is
crucial.
It's crazy that we have to dothat, like right before the
airline or right before that weget on board so people now think
about this.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
You have the largest minority group that's in the
world, you know, people withdisabilities.
Right now we're talking aboutspinal cord injuries, so
individuals that use thewheelchair for the most part,
and other other factor in thisis that majority of these people
are on fixed incomes.
Um, majority of theseindividuals don't have the best,
(39:05):
you know support system All allthe way around.
Right, my point is we stillhave to go and purchase an air
tag To make sure that yourwheelchair comes back and comes
to you properly and safely,because of the lack of
(39:25):
understanding and the lack ofeducation that goes into
training and the individualsthat are working with our, our
mobility devices.
But then you have to take timeto record right like and take
pictures of your device just tomake sure it comes back in the
same piece.
Now, I'm not saying that, youknow it's a bad thing to
(39:48):
document, but what I'm saying isthat everyone doesn't have the
mobility that myself or Anna has.
Right, spinal cord injurystarts at the Top of your spine
all the way to the bottom ofyour spine and so, depending on
where your injured Speaks, onyour level of mobility.
And again, everyone doesn't havethat ability.
(40:09):
So it's important to sharethese factors because I think in
a lot of things we end upspending more money to be
accommodated.
I even Took note recently ofbooking for a hotel and realized
that all the ADA rooms causemore and again.
I'm good with that if societydoesn't have to perceive that we
(40:32):
aren't supposed to beself-sufficient.
Right, because, again, like, ifyou know people with
disabilities and are gettingcertain funding, access and
ability to to have and do allthe things everyone else can do,
and the cool Prices is prices,but when it comes to
accommodation and access, you'repaying more.
(40:54):
You're paying more for theconvenience, right, like,
instead of having someone thatcreates it in their model, that
just creates a level of accessor, you know, safety or Safety
or comfortability, right?
So yeah.
I think that is important.
I just want people to know,like you know, living as well,
(41:14):
life Comes with a lot of, lot ofcosts and a lot of heartaches
sometimes when, when you justwant to be independent and live
freely right.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
One of the most frequently asked questions that
I get is do I wish to walk again?
And it's not the fact that I'munable to use my legs, it's not
the fact that I can't run orjump or climb anymore.
It's the fact that there'sthese Society barriers that are
preventing me from living a fulllife.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yes, I mean society barriers, and when you think
about societal barriers, youhave to think it's not just the
that starts right, right, butthen I always say, like you can
be inclusive, but are you right?
So your whole facility can belike the airport?
The airport to extend isaccessible.
(42:04):
I still have my views about it,but A lot of the staff aren't
knowledgeable when it comes toaccess or disability, so you're
missing a layer.
Right, you know like you'remissing something that can
actually serve more, because mecoming into the airport and
knowing that you have a, a tinyseat that can get me on the
(42:26):
airplane, but then you have twostaff members that don't even
know how to lift me up, doesn'treally work for me.
Right, and again, like, for me,I have the strength.
For Anna, she has the strength,but for someone that can have a
higher injury or even new intheir injury, that one
experience, it can be their lastexperience, and you hear many
(42:49):
horror stories of people withdisabilities that are mishandled
and a lot of differentprofessions.
Right, and I'm not the personto hear my bad or I'm sorry,
because the the everlasting painand and and effects of dropping
someone in a wheelchair Goesbeyond your apology.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Hmm, mm-hmm, it's scary, sometimes it's terrifying
and we are mentally scarred.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
It creates all these levels of anxiety, like you
don't want to do this again.
You go like, uh, like it's,it's a lot, it's a lot and I
want people to understand it.
And we haven't even talked onpain, right, like we have any
talk barriers on, like naturalpain that you get from nerves
(43:40):
and things like that all we'vebeen literally having the
conversation about right now andits access and being included
in societal barriers, and Ithink people need to understand
how compact and like this thisconversation is, because All of
these underlining things to beliving life and free and
independent, and you haven'teven got to your injury yet,
(44:03):
like you haven't even been ableto explain, okay, well, this is
what I deal with as having afinal court injury, right, it's
like we're talking about justgetting out outdoors, right?
So one thing that I do want toacknowledge, anna, is you being
a substitute teacher.
Um, because, again, your, yourlife, oh, your life is amazing
(44:28):
because you, you're shiftingwhat people think, right, like,
of course, we're in sports andAnna's a A bad ass when it comes
to fitness and stuff.
Trust me, I tried to, reallydid, but I mean from Navigating
high school to graduatingcollege, to being an advocate
(44:51):
and a keynote speaker and allthese other things, but having a
passion to be a substituteteacher right, talk about that.
Talk about what is your normalrange of ages that you use
substitute and what is yourexperiences and what are you
trying to teach the youththrough your just organic work
(45:12):
of being a teacher.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, so I wear a lot of hats, like Wes said keynote
speaker, social media blogger,model substitute teacher and
with every role I find that I'mstill advocating and one of the
biggest things in my eyes is tobe able to educate the youth
about how to truly build aninclusive and diverse and
(45:37):
accessible future.
So when I stepped into thisrole, I've been a substitute
teacher for about four years nowand I primarily see early
education, so K through five,and with each classroom that I'm
stepping into, I'm devotingfive minutes to do disability
101 with these kids, the peopleor these children, to provide
(46:01):
them information that I wishsociety taught, such as
disability etiquette, teachingthem that the word disability
isn't a bad word.
And then, far beyond that,about accessible parking spots
and how crucial they are becausetheir parents will often pick
them up from them, and that's awhole other topic of itself.
(46:23):
And then also just accessiblebathroom stalls and making sure
that we leave that bathroomstyle available for people who
need it, because the last thingthat we wanna do is go into a
bathroom when we really need togo to the bathroom and then see
that all the stalls are openexcept for the accessible one,
but I'll wait 10 minutes forsomeone to do whatever they're
(46:47):
doing in the bathroom stallsWe'll often see teenagers just
filming TikToks in the bathroomand the big bathroom stalls
altogether, or we've seen which.
This isn't mother's faults butthe changing station being in
the accessible stall and havingthem having to change their baby
, and that's not their fault.
But when we think aboutaccessibility and design, that's
(47:10):
not a part of what thisinclusive design looks like,
because now we're waiting for amother to change their baby and
them having to wait for us sothat they could change their
babies.
So vice versa.
But also in the classrooms Italk about the importance of hey
, you can talk to disabledpeople and we are very friendly
(47:33):
just like anyone else.
So, opening that conversationbecause I know that oftentimes
their parents, more often thannot, will say no, don't stare, I
mean don't ask these questionslike shy them away from
disability and the conversationof disability, which is part of
the reasons why we see adultswho very visibly show discomfort
(47:54):
about when sharing, like closeproximity with a disabled person
and we can point out everynonverbal behavior that shows
that they weren't open to theconversation of what it means to
be disabled and share spacewith disabled individuals.
So I do a lot with them andthey always have the most
curious things to say and I loveit because, again, I think that
(48:17):
it's really important toreiterate that it's okay that we
have curious minds and I wantto really point out that when
you have those curious momentsin children, to not shy them
away from that, to invite themto maybe start that conversation
with a disabled person and ifthat disabled person doesn't
wanna share, then to respectthat and then say address the
(48:41):
child hey, like they didn'twanna talk about it.
Sometimes you don't wanna talkabout things and that's okay.
Why don't we go home and do ourown research online so that we
know what it's like to servethese people?
So Mm.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Such good gems right there, anna, so good.
I love being around kids too.
They're very unapologetic andthey have all the questions that
once you become an adult oreven an adolescent, you don't
ask anymore.
And I've learned that itchanges their perception
instantly when you can literallyjust have a conversation or
(49:19):
answer questions that make themsee us right, like outside of
the way that their parents do.
Cause a lot of people'sexperience are based off of
someone else's opinions orperception about the disabled
community and so being able toyeah, so being able to sit in
front of children andorganically just teach them Like
(49:41):
so I guess that leads me intothe next question, cause I think
that's a great, great pointthat you make about teaching
kids.
What steps would you like tosee society take to become more
accessible and inclusive?
Speaker 2 (49:56):
I would love for them to get educated and look at
their inner circle and includedisabled voices in that, so that
we can build a world that'sempathetic and that knows all of
these different lens and anglesof life, so that we're starting
to look for it in the realworld and we're joining allyship
(50:20):
to the disabled community andbeing advocates.
On calling out business, Ishouldn't say calling out, I
don't like calling out, I likecalling in better Cause.
Calling in stands a lot more ofwhat I'm trying to do Calling
in businesses about the barriersthat they may have overlooked.
So I think it's important, withevery keynote that I end with,
(50:42):
I stress the importance ofnon-disabled becoming allies to
the disability community or evenadvocates or activists.
I mean, like those havedifferent degrees and levels,
but to somehow look at theirinner circle, look at you know
their feed on Instagram andsocial medias and making sure
that they're intentionallyadding diverse voices in it so
(51:05):
that they can know how to serveother people in the world.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
I love that.
I love that.
So, if you don't have diversevoices on your feed on social
media, we look in.
Yes, and it's important to havethat visual representation, but
it's also important to makesure that you are having
conversations with people thathave disabilities so that you
can truly see your business,your institution, your
(51:33):
organization, serve all.
And if you can't serve all,having an understanding on the
language to utilize when itcomes to maybe your
accountability of lack of accessor barriers can help other
people feel still includedbecause you're holding
transparency.
Because, of course, somebuildings are grandfathered in
(51:55):
as a term right, like, of course, I'm not a fan of it, but
sometimes that can be.
That's an excuse.
It's an excuse, but being openwith someone can let them know.
But then also, let's find asolution together.
Let's don't even based on justthis one term or something that
we know.
Let's figure out how we canwork together to create a more
(52:17):
inclusive future Right.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Right, right, and having a solution.
I actually learned.
So I attended the ADA symposium, which is the most
comprehensive conference aboutdisability laws and it's a four
day event and I just got backfrom it and I learned and took
away so much from that.
But one of the things that Ireally learned was that there's
(52:39):
no such thing as yourgrandfather clause.
So you're actually under theADA, even though your foundation
and structure may be builtalong before the ADA, you're
supposed to have some kind ofsolution to be able to serve
disabled people, to access yourbusiness or facility.
And that was like I mean, likethere's so many times where I
(53:03):
tolerated that, like I'm someone, a business will say, well,
we're grandfathered in and I'mlike okay.
And so I'm like, okay, guess wehave to go somewhere else.
But no, that's actually a myththat exists and we're tolerating
it because we don't know.
And it's huge to have thatknowledge, because now I'm
looking at businesses and saylike where's the ramp that you
(53:25):
guys are supposed to provide, oranything like that.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
That was so good.
That was so good.
And like thank you foreducating me at this moment,
because I'm getting too nicewith that term.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, no, I mean I'm gonna do more research it and
I'm still digesting all theinformation I got from this
weekend, but, oh my gosh, thatjust changed my entire
perspective of that term and howpeople use it.
So I just wanted to includethat because I think it's
important for people to alsoknow.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
No, absolutely, and I you know, at least from my
understanding, when I visitedLondon for the first time, they
had buildings that they wouldhave mentioned being some type
of grandfathered in, but theymade accommodations to create
access.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
And so, yes, the structure could have been, but
you still create access.
I have a good friend that makesa point that she says you're
creating a world that youwouldn't wanna live in.
And if everybody's going toexperience disability at some
point of their life.
If you're not creating accessfor me, you're hindering access
(54:32):
for you, your family members orsomeone that you know now or in
the future.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Disability does not discriminate.
It does not discriminate Right.
Listen.
If you live long enough, youtoo will be affected by this.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
You too.
So, as we end, share somepoints that you will want the
community to know about spinalcord injury, and then you know,
for those that could have aspinal cord injury, what would
be your last words for them aswell.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yes, oh, the advice piece.
I always get this question and Ithink it always reflects where
I am at life at the moment, andso my biggest advice would be,
if you're comfortable, to reallytap in to becoming an advocate
and educating yourself ondisability laws, because I
didn't realize how many lawsthere were that just support us,
(55:29):
and it goes far beyond the ADA.
I mean you have, like, the ABAand all these other ones that
can support and help us navigatethis world.
But also just to like, ifyou're in those early injured
days, to really just be able togrieve and sit with yourself and
(55:51):
sit with these emotions, causeI think it's so crucial that we
do so.
I remember so many times I wasfed like toxic positivity and I
never really processed myemotions, and as someone who's a
mental health advocate, I thinkit's crucial that we do so,
because it'll show up in thefuture if we don't.
So that and like also getconnected with this amazing
(56:14):
community.
I mean there's a lot of us andthere's a lot of us that are
doing amazing and incrediblethings.
So once you open your lens torealizing that, your life
changes.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, community, finding yourtribe right, finding your tribe
and being the change you wish tosee.
So advocacy, you know, if youdon't see change, you can be
that change, you can be thevoice.
And one thing I would leavewith for everybody is just that
you know we are not thecircumstances that we're
(56:48):
currently in.
We are what we set to be andbecome, and so, no matter what
position or place you are inlife at the moment, you can
become so much more.
Life is about growth, soimagine how much you can evolve
daily if you push yourself, takethe baby steps to understanding
(57:09):
and acknowledging all of you,so that you can pour you out
into the world organically andauthentically and become a
change just by doing that.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Right.
I don't know why I love that.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
All right, anna, but thank you so much for tapping in
and chatting Again.
Thanks everybody for tapping in.
Until the next time, I'm out ofthe shadows, doses.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Thank you guys, thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
And as we conclude, another inspiring episode, I
want to remind you that successisn't just about the spotlight.
It's also about the shadows.
It's about the struggles weconquer, the unseen battles we
fight and the silent victorieswe claim.
I'm Wesley Hamilton and you'vebeen listening to Out of the
Shadows, where we illuminate thestories often left untold.
(58:00):
Join me next week as I ventureback into the shadows and bring
another amazing individual intothe light.
Until then, remember, no storyis too small to inspire.
Keep fighting, keep winning andstay out of the shadows.
L introduction.
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