October 1, 2023 • 40 mins
We know more about the inner workings of the human brain than ever before, but is our educational system taking advantage of what we've learned? Cognitive behavioral researcher Dr. CK Bray joins us on the podcast today to explore the intricate relationship between neuroscience, education, and culture. Dr. Bray shares insightful perspectives on the pressing need for change in our educational practices, emphasizing the importance of mental health monitoring, emotional regulation tools, the profound impact of physical activity and the vital role played by social connection in optimizing our brains for learning.
Ever heard of box breathing? In this episode, Dr. Bray explains how this simple technique and others can reset the brain, reduce stress, and combat fatigue, creating a more conducive environment for both learning and teaching. But, it doesn't stop there! We also discuss the positive impacts of educator autonomy on their motivation and student outcomes. A little autonomy can go a long way to foster a sense of control, purpose, and increase collective teacher efficacy.
Finally, Dr. Bray lays out the importance of developing strong social connections. In the digital age, our interactions are often mediated by screens, resulting in a potential lack of genuine connection. Dr. Bray guides us through the influences of social media on our youth and underscores the significance of continuous learning and taking on challenges in enhancing self-efficacy and self-esteem. So, gear up as we dive into these pivotal discussions aimed at equipping educators to be more successful in their indispensable roles. Let's redefine education together!
"Outliers in Education" is a project of CEE, The Center for Educational Effectiveness. Find out more at effectiveness.org.
Produced by Jamie Howell at Howell at the Moon Productions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ad VO (00:00):
Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the
Center for EducationalEffectiveness.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
To find out more, visiteffectivenessorg.
Eric Price (00:15):
During the first 25 years of life.
The human brain is theconstruction site.
As educators, that puts us inthe role of onsite foreman,
trying to run a safe, successfulbuild.
But are we looking at the rightblueprints?
Put on your hard hats as wedelve into the neural mechanisms
of learning.
On this episode of Outliers inEducation.
Ad VO (00:36):
I think we really need to change how we look at what we
do in schools.
Everything that we do aseducators, it just comes back to
people.
Erich Bolz (00:44):
I love it, even when it's hard, especially when it's
hard.
Ultimately, I mean, this isabout what's best for kids.
Eric Price (00:52):
Hey everyone, Eric Price here back for another
mind-expanding episode ofOutliers in Education.
I'm joined, as always, by mybig brain co-host, Eric Boles
from the Center for EducationalEffectiveness, and we're getting
ready to put on our thinkingcaps today as we explore the
intersection between education,neuroscience and culture.
Bullsy, I know we've talkedabout culture and education as
(01:15):
that kind of being a precursorto looking at those academic
improvements.
You're in the trenches a lotwith K-12 leaders and
administrators and teachers.
Are you still seeing?
Those same things hold true.
Erich Bolz (01:30):
Well, in a word, yes , EP, and I am so excited to be
able to delve into this wholecontext of organizational
development.
One of the things that we'vetalked about as longtime
practicing principles was, ifyou survive as a principal, you
sort of intuitively figure outthat your role is to really
facilitate better culture insideof your school environment.
But it's not explicitly taught,at least it was not in our
(01:53):
experience in principal prepschool.
So I know that when I was aprincipal I didn't have a label
to hang on it.
So I think this podcast willhelp us a great deal in helping
school leaders know that there'sactually a discipline called
organizational development.
And then what are thoseconcrete things that we should
be doing as leaders tofacilitate that improved and
enhanced culture?
(02:13):
So I'm really excited about ourconversation today, EP.
Eric Price (02:15):
Yeah, I think that's a great point.
We just absolutely were nottaught this sort of thing, and
we're going to learn more aboutour brains in this podcast, but
we continue to learn more aboutour brains all the time and
we're going to take a look atare we really applying what
we've learned about culture,brains, organization, and are we
applying that to education, theway in which we teach and the
way in which we run our schoolsand districts?
(02:36):
And here we've got to help us.
Dr CK Bray.
He's a cognitive behavioralresearcher.
He specializes in change,adaption, human performance and
potential and is known for hisability to take complex research
and make it understandable topeople like me.
That's a low bar.
Dr Bray has a PhD inorganizational development and
(02:56):
learning, a second PhD inindustrial organizational
psychology with an emphasis incognitive science.
And, Dr Bray I heard thisthrough the grapevine that when
you were a kid, you wanted to bea game show host.
Dr Bray, welcome to the show.
Dr. CK Bray (03:11):
Thank you, it is true, and I would have been a
good one.
Eric Price (03:16):
I would like to see that game.
What would it be called, DrBray?
Dr. CK Bray (03:20):
Oh, I wanted to take something over like
pressure luck.
Eric Price (03:23):
I would have just Dr Bray, let's get into a big
boulder to begin with.
If we take a look, you'veobviously done a bunch of a lot
of education and research.
So one of those things thatwill help our listeners and
Bolsey and me kind of thinkthrough some things is, with all
the things that we know aboutthe brain, organization and
(03:45):
culture and we start to look atthe way in which schools are
doing business.
If you could say, hey, weshould probably change a few
things, what would those fewthings be that you would change
in our practice and education?
Dr. CK Bray (03:58):
It's a phenomenal question and you almost hate to
answer it because alreadyeducators are overwhelmed
because there's so much to doand curriculum and everything,
and so obviously I appreciateeverything that they're doing
for the six children I've hadthat have been educated and
realizing what that is.
But as COVID's hit and timesare changing, we are realizing
(04:20):
that what needs to be taught ornoticed is changing.
That's things like watching foranxiety and depression,
watching for some of thosehealth disorders and
prioritizing some of those earlyinterventions.
And when I say interventionsdon't think big, I'm thinking
small things that you can do inthe classroom with classrooms as
a whole or individuals,literally in three to four
(04:42):
minutes that change the brain.
Because a lot of times when wetalk about health disorders,
especially around those and Ilove your beginning when we're
talking about those who areunder 24, is the brain is just
developing.
It's not fully cooked.
There's still new neuralnetworks and synapses all
connected and so there are a lotof good things to that in that
they're learning, they're quicklearners, but also the brain's
(05:05):
having to really stop and saywhat's important, what's not
important.
Let's get rid of some of theseneural networks and some of
these synapses so that we canreally focus on what's important
.
So, as we look at a lot ofwhat's mental health, that is
one thing that educators reallyneed to be trained on and then
also be able to begin to notice.
And as a part of that, I'd saynumber two is just tools to deal
(05:26):
with it.
What are some really short, forlack of a better term just hard
hitting tools that can be usedto change a child's brain in
three to five minutes.
They can teach them how to havesome emotional regulation, how
to notice the emotions, but also, if they are dealing with
depression, anxiety or even justincreased stress, what happens
(05:48):
when we take a test or have todo a presentation is what ways
can we change what's happeningin our brain, the electrical
currents in the brain, thechemicals that are being
released in the brain, to reallybring out the best in that
student?
Now something else that wentaway and it started to come back
it's physical health.
We are now realizing more thanever, especially in the last
(06:10):
five years, the connectionbetween physical health and a
really healthy brain.
Now remember, the brain is thecaptain of all of these young
people's ship, and so some ofthem are living on Jeff Bezos
yachts and have great brainsthat are working.
Some are in little teenydingies that are just being
built in, sometimes maybe aboutready to sink, and so what we
(06:31):
wanna do is, because they arethe captain of their ship, we
know that being active plays akey role in their brain health
and the development of theirbrain, and not just, like I said
, the structural or the chemicalor the electrical or the
physiological part of the brain,but we're also looking at
relieving stress throughphysical activity, calming you
(06:52):
know, and what it feels likeafter you've exercised, but also
how good it makes you feel andhow many really great aspects
are connected to, you know,being physical and the brain.
So it's really intertwining themInstead of just PE.
What can we do in these 90minute learning cycles, or two
hour learning cycles, dependingon the age of?
Eric Price (07:12):
the student?
Yeah right.
And if you're talking aboutlike in the classroom, dr Bray,
are you talking like a teachercould just stop for a couple of
minutes and do something?
Dr. CK Bray (07:20):
Absolutely.
So they may go to PE, but I'mthinking what things can you do
in five minutes that change thebrain?
And I'll go through somedifferent things, but we call it
the 555, which you canliterally change the brain in
five minutes, three times fiveminutes between, you know, eight
noon, five minutes betweenlunchtime there, 12, two o'clock
, and five minutes between twoand three, three thirty, when
(07:42):
they get out of school.
It's really changed the brainand, like I said, there are
things that teachers can do andthe sad thing is and you know
this as well sometimes we haveall this great research but it
never filters down to the right.
Yeah, let me throw in two otherthings.
This is my list.
Too long already, not at all.
Keep going.
Yeah, educators are going.
Oh for this.
But another one is resilience.
(08:03):
Now, I know that has beenbecome a major play.
My children have learned it.
I love it when they learn aboutresilience and it's an ongoing
topic that they have, but thenalso learning about community
and connection.
Now, connection is key to brainhealth, key to decision making,
key to happiness and meaningand purpose.
Like relational connections.
Yes, absolutely, connectionswith students, connections with
(08:25):
teachers, connections withprincipals, where we're getting,
you know, really goodconnections in there, a sense of
community in the school place.
So we're bringing in the PTA,we're bringing in teachers and
librarians and PE and music andreally creating that connection
around relationships.
Because we do know brain health, I mean really, what is it?
(08:47):
Isolation and loneliness nowhas been shown to be worse than
cigarette smoking.
If you're going to smoke acouple packs a day, it's better
to do that than to be lonely.
And, as we all know, lonelinessis very apparent with a lot of
the youth today who are underthe age of 18.
Eric Price (09:02):
So just to underline or get an outliner on this one,
being lonely is the same assmoking a couple of packs of
cigarettes a day.
Dr. CK Bray (09:12):
It's worse, smokes, worse, wow.
And we're not talkingloneliness over a year, we're
talking where, and remember letme caveat here and you could
always just interrupt because Iget going and you'll never get a
word in edgewise.
And we talk about loneliness.
People can have a lot of peoplearound and still lonely, and
also people can just feel lonelyand have no friends around.
(09:34):
So it's being able to noticewhat are the some of the signs
that people are lonely?
Because we can changeloneliness literally in you know
, just one or two activities orone or two connections that
people all of a sudden feel like.
It's like when anybody's beennew to a school and you walk in
and it's lunchtime.
It's the most horrifyingfeeling of who do I eat with it?
And that ends that cascade ofchemicals and cortisol.
(09:58):
And just someone saying comeand sit with me changes the
chemicals released in the brain.
You're getting dopamine, you'regetting serotonin, I have
friends, I belong, I'm motivatedto get more friends now, and so
changing that will really helpwith brain health.
Eric Price (10:14):
So again the 555,.
What was that again?
Dr. CK Bray (10:16):
Okay, so what we do and we'll talk about some of
the tools, but you want 15minutes in a school day and I
always like to say between eightand 11, probably somewhere
between five minutes there, fiveminutes between 11 and one and
five minutes between the end ofthe school day that we need to
reset the brain.
It's like your phone that theapp stopped working.
Same goes for children's brains.
(10:37):
We have to stop and reset it.
Erich Bolz (10:39):
Boy, you've covered a lot of ground and I've made a
lot of connections to some ofour work.
We've got a wonderful series inpartnership with Dr Greg Benner
from the University of Alabama,called the whole educator
series.
So those SEL strategies thatare practical management
strategies in the classroom aswell as student self-regulation
strategies we have in spades.
We have international filmmakerAaron Christopher on two of our
(11:00):
podcasts talking about theepidemic that's loneliness in
our society.
So take us through somepractical strategies on the
student side and then maybewe'll segue into all right.
Now let's talk to principles alittle bit Perfect.
Dr. CK Bray (11:12):
All right, let's talk about some of these
strategies that we can do inunder five minutes that change
the brain, and I'll give anoverview and literally people
can Google it.
Now you have to be careful.
Make sure you go to a researchsite that gives you and most
likely that's going to be auniversity or research
institution that gives some goodthings.
But some of these tools thatyou can do in the five, five,
(11:33):
five.
So the first one that I wouldsay is one of the best ways to
get students to reset theirbrain is deep breathing.
It's that simple Now what we'veshown, that if you can get
students for even a minute ortwo minutes to do some deep
breathing together, you knowyou're inhaling through the nose
, you're exhaling through themouth.
That you know.
(11:53):
Really, it's that simple thatit changes the brain.
It changes the brain waves.
You know we get to.
You know some of the alpha andtheta brain waves that are the
calming type of brain waves.
We get more emotionalregulation.
The amygdala doesn't go to thefight or flight, so we get that
calming feeling just bybreathing it out.
Now, for those who are in highschool, maybe want to get super
(12:13):
fancy in the two to threeminutes there.
You know you can do boxbreathing and there are a lot of
books that you can buy on theseand that's where you inhale and
you count to four, you hold forfour and you exhale for four
and then you breathe in for four, because what it's doing is
it's just really calming thebrain, it's resetting it and if
we have a new learning activitygoing on, maybe we have a new
(12:35):
subject going on.
If if just students could forthree minutes at the beginning
of class and I'll give anothercouple of things that we can do
here is just do some deepbreathing.
It sets the brain up to learn.
Now, when we talk about learning, we talk about creating those
new neural pathways and gettingjust really the brain firing.
It is all about number one, asyou know, the environment, of
(12:55):
course, but number two it's theinternal environment, especially
if kids are, you know, thinkingabout recess or what homework,
or do my friends think I belong,or I have soccer practice.
After we have all these things,deep breathing clears the mind
and lets them focus on this newlearning activity.
We know that learning increasesif we just do some three
minutes of deep breathing and ofcourse, students will laugh at
(13:17):
it and say this is crazy, buthere's what we do know, if you
can literally do it for aboutfour days in a row, students and
adults will begin to notice.
Notice that difference.
Eric Price (13:26):
So you're telling me I have a dysregulated kid, like
a kid that's got behaviorissues or I have difficulty
attending.
If I can just spend this threeminutes breathing, that that
will help my brain to reset to aplace where I can learn better.
Dr. CK Bray (13:40):
Oh, absolutely.
And before we ever even talk,if we can say, oh, let's just
deep breathe for a minute, we'reresetting their brain, and we
do that for two minutes, saywe're going to do this five or
six times, it's going to calm usboth down so we can help solve
the problem.
And you know how importantcommunication is there.
But like, this is what we'regoing to do, this is going to be
the end result, then we canhelp really begin to calm them
(14:03):
down.
Because whenever, especially ifyou're a teacher or a principal
, and all of a sudden we'regoing to have a conversation
that they know is not going tobe a good conversation, we want
to move them from fight orflight that hey, this is going
to be a threat state that I'm in, so I get defensive.
Everybody regulation is myhands start sweating, my blood
(14:26):
pressure goes up, I'm focusingin on the problem, so everything
that helps solve the problemdisappears, whereas if we can
calm that fight or flight down,all of a sudden it opens up
everything that makes us reallybe at our best.
So I can learn better, I canlisten better, I can make better
decisions.
I'm going to change my behaviormore easily by doing that.
Now can I throw a littlewhipped cream and cherry on?
(14:47):
Yo, whipped cream, baby.
Okay.
So I do this with adults.
We do it almost before everyworkshop, we do this at keynotes
, so it's not just for students.
I do this for adults in theworkplace who get very amped up
and very much in a fight orflight, is doing a quick
check-in.
So let's breathe.
Now just tell me how you are.
Give me descriptive words.
(15:08):
If we're talking, you know, arewe angry, am I upset?
And here's what we don't, wedon't want to say why.
Now let me be super clear,because the research this is the
most fun research you're goingto.
Well, some of you.
I want to name the emotionsbecause here's what we have
found in adults and studentsthat if I just name the emotion,
(15:30):
if I'm upset or I'm angry orI'm frustrated and the more I
can name the better.
So we need to teach peoplethose emotion words.
It decreases the emotionalvelocity that fight or flight
with 50% faster than if youdidn't tell me the words.
So I'm not trying to figurethings out.
I'm not trying to tell you whyI'm upset.
(15:50):
All I'm doing is naming theemotion I'm upset, frustrated.
It decreases and takes you outof fight or flight 50% faster
than if you're angry.
Eric Price (15:59):
So if you're talking about self-care for our
teachers, or, I would say, ouradministrators, this is
something that we could be doingas well.
Dr. CK Bray (16:07):
Oh, teachers absolutely should be doing a
whole lot of breathing, maybe weshould say a 10, 10, 10 for
them, but absolutely just a five, five, five, if they can.
Just before class begins a newclass, just take some deep
breaths and just do a quickcheck-in.
(16:27):
How am I doing?
It isn't even better if you'rea little vocal, say, man, I'm a
little stressed out.
I know this class is a littlemore difficult, it's a little
more high strung, somechallenging maybe students.
But I'm just gonna take somedeep breaths, it just, and
remember the more you do it, thebetter effect and faster effect
it has.
Eric Price (16:44):
Wow we've got a lot to think about here.
We'll be right back to go evendeeper after this quick break on
Outliers in Education.
Ad VO (16:55):
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Erich Bolz (17:17):
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Erich Bolz (17:30):
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Eric Price (17:58):
Welcome back everyone to Outliers in
Education.
Today we're getting some helpwrapping our minds around how
the neurosciences can inform ourapproach to education from
cognitive behavioral researcherDr CK Bray.
Dr Bray, I know you have workedwith Fortune 500 companies.
If you were gonna say, hey, ifyou're a principal or a
(18:18):
superintendent and you reallywant to start to create some of
these cultures that have gottrust imbued, trust driven and
based, what would those bigthings be for a leader to get a
culture that really has some ofthose really strong trust pieces
in it that we know are gonnasupport some good learning?
Dr. CK Bray (18:39):
I love that you said trust, because number one
right now in the workplace ispsychological safety.
I want to feel like I'm safeemotionally, that I can speak up
and share my thoughts andfeelings and that I'm not
constantly worrying is someonejudging me?
If I don't do this right, is myjob in jeopardy.
(18:59):
So we want to have a lot ofpsychological safety.
And you say trust here.
Trust absolutely then trumpsthe psychological safety,
because it's just creating thattrust.
And how do we do it?
It's the little, small thingsthat create the psychological
safety.
So as a principal or a leaderor superintendent or whatever it
is, we can get up on our podiumand talk about psychological
(19:22):
safety.
But it's the little things ofgoing around to the classroom or
the lunch break and talkingabout how are you doing, how are
things going, and it's not evennecessarily giving recognition
what you can do, but it'sappreciation of things for what
you're doing.
We sure appreciate your hardwork.
We sure appreciate what a greatteacher, educator you are.
Eric Price (19:41):
So they feel like they're being seen or
acknowledged.
Dr. CK Bray (19:44):
Seen and heard.
Those are two things for us tobe at our best, and some of our
greatest need, once we have foodand water, is please see, hear
and value, and once I have thosethree, I can do amazing things.
And just a side note, what doesthat do?
When we're seen, heard andvalued, it unlocks in our genes
what's called the potential gene, and that potential gene is I
(20:06):
can do more than I thought Icould do, in other words, that
self-efficacy.
So when I feel like you valueme and you see me and hear me,
you're going to see me do thingsthat are going to surprise me
and probably surprise you.
So, Dr Bray, I think a lot.
Erich Bolz (20:20):
Transfers are going to be made from the business
world to school leadership.
Having gone back and forth nowtwice in three decades, what
would you tell a young principalin terms of what's job one?
In this regard, they're hung upwith high stakes tests and get
those scores up.
How well they do there may notcontribute a whole lot to their
tenure.
The overall health of thebuilding.
What would you suggest they doinstead or in supplementation?
Dr. CK Bray (20:42):
I mean I think the number one and of course, all
those things are important youknow, those test scores and
grades and dealing with parentsand all those things are very
important but specifically forthe educators in her school or
his school, I'd say the numberone thing is create and I don't
know if I'd number these asorder of importance, but create
(21:03):
a social connection.
We need to make sure that weare a team.
Together, we have each other'sbacks and there's a social
connection.
Now, my mom was a second gradeteacher for about 28 years and
the connection she had with herfellow educators was
unbelievable, almost unmatchedin any I've seen in any
corporate type of setting.
(21:23):
For some reason, there'ssomething that bonds educators
in what they do, so I think thatit lends itself to that already
Now.
A second thing I'd say to a newprincipal and this is the
hardest thing to do is we haveto let people make decisions.
We have to give them freedomand autonomy, because the moment
I have autonomy, it's not I'mdoing what you want me to do,
(21:45):
but I feel like I have greatideas and things that I want to
do and can we talk about it andcollaborate together so that I
feel like I have autonomy, Ihave a sense of control that
they are driving those behaviorsthere.
Eric Price (21:55):
Yes, absolutely.
Dr. CK Bray (21:57):
They're taking control and making decisions in
their classroom, working incollaboration with the
leadership of the school.
That sense of control goes along way to feeling like I have
meaning and purpose.
Now, when we have a sense ofcontrol, our meaning and purpose
go up.
Now that's the dopaminechemical in the brain, because
the moment I feel like I havecontrol, I become motivated and
(22:20):
that dopamine is let me takemore action.
So what then begins to happenis I think of better ways,
things I could do for theclassroom or those students.
So we wanna give them thatsense of control, even if it
means let's sit and talk abouthow we can collaborate, cause
there are certain things comingdown from the district, coming
from places, and the principlethat we have to collaborate
together.
But, boy, as much control as heor she can turn over, the
(22:42):
better that is for thatteacher's brain.
Eric Price (22:44):
And does it?
Is it snowball then, when theyfeel more in control than they
want to take more and they wantto invest more?
Does that how it works?
Dr. CK Bray (22:52):
Absolutely.
You're gonna learn a lot aboutthat educator through giving
them more control.
I'd say a large percentage ofthose are going to take it and
run with it and you're gonna seethem do amazing things and
we've seen them do amazingthings.
There are gonna be some whowill not run with it and that's
gonna tell you some of theinformation that you probably
already knew.
But maybe they're in it for thewrong reasons.
But those who love the studentswhich what teacher doesn't?
(23:15):
That's why you went into it.
Love the students, loveeducating them, helping them
develop and grow into theselittle great humans.
When the moment my autonomygets taken away, I check out
because you're running the show.
Now you're running the show.
I'm not running the show.
Eric Price (23:28):
Are there any other things that are like big bang
for a buck?
If I'm really trying to boostthat social, emotional health of
my staff, what other thingswould you offer?
Dr. CK Bray (23:39):
Okay.
So I would first go back and goback to the breathing, the
check ins also, and it's hard todo but say the physio are we
walking, are we moving?
Because that has so much impacton the brain.
But what you could really doinside the school is that social
connection.
It is so important for there tobe a connection and to create
(24:01):
connection points.
Now, a lot of those will happenwhen they have time to work on
their lesson plans or they'retaking the class to the library,
whatever that they can.
But I would encourage thatsocial connection with other
teachers, other people who workin the building and in the
school.
And that might mean even Iwould encourage PTA, bring in a
(24:21):
lunch that we can come together.
It doesn't mean necessarilyeverybody needs to sit together,
but I want little small groupsof people connecting and saying
okay, you have to have oneperson in your group that you
don't know.
So maybe this is great teachersgonna be with the first grade
teacher or if it's advice, we'regonna have the English with the
math.
And that social connection doesso much.
Because, number one, it helpsus feel like I'm not alone in
(24:43):
this.
And when you feel like I'm notalone in this, number two, when
I have an issue with a parent,when I have an issue with a
student, you want them to go toanother teacher educator first,
and hopefully it's one who hasexperience and great ideas and
really and then maybe go to theprincipal after.
Now, it depends on what thesituation is, that parents
(25:04):
involved.
But I'm just saying, boy, ifit's something that they can
have, a relationship, they cango to someone, another educator
and learn from them.
Boy, that bonds them together.
And that social connection,people, no matter how bad that
classes or students are, if theylove their fellow teachers and
their principal, oh, they'regonna stay.
Erich Bolz (25:22):
As I sit here and I listen, I imagine you're
probably more familiar than weare with John Hattie's wonderful
research and what he says justin terms of what can be changed
inside of the schoolhouse is herefers to it as collective
teacher efficacy.
So I'm listening to you talkabout really the roadmap to that
from the principal to teachersis foster a sense of broad
social connection.
Social connection leads towanting to collaborate with your
(25:45):
peers, and when you seek yourpeers out to come up with
solutions, magic happens.
That seems like a pretty simpleroadmap to me.
Tell us why this is allshrouded in mystery.
Dr. CK Bray (25:55):
Oh, this is we're cutting into the meat.
This is the good.
We hear about all the goodthings, but oftentimes we don't
see the barriers.
So what happens is is if I'm anew teacher or I don't let's say
I've been in a school and maybeI don't know people as well as
I should is I feel like if Ireach out to them.
Number one am I gonna be notrejected, but just not accepted?
(26:16):
Number two if I go to you witha problem, what are you gonna
think of me as an educator?
You're gonna think I'm notgonna get a job.
So a lot of it's the internalrumination and internal thinking
that we have that, instead ofreaching out, we say, oh, they
don't wanna talk to me, they'rebusy, they wanna get home, they
have papers to grade and teststo create and all of these
(26:37):
things, whereas that is the key,just when we can weave those
together.
So barriers in internal talkingand our head rumination that
says, oh, what will people thinkif I reach out to somebody?
Eric Price (26:48):
Yeah, like some of that Bernay Brown vulnerability
stuff.
Erich Bolz (26:51):
Right, I was gonna go right there, ep, you want all
I beat you to you beat me tothe punch.
I'm like, wow, sounds likewe've been to the Bernay Brown
world now.
Look at all these things we'reconnecting today.
Dr. CK Bray (27:00):
Okay, I don't mean to name drop, but I was reading
somewhere for research and Iemailed her and we had an email
exchange which I still have.
Long.
She said let me come and workfor you.
I should have said will youmarry me?
No, I'm just kidding.
So, yes, the Bernay Brown partis let's get to where we can
(27:24):
help people connect in a way, soit's not some of the barriers
are these educators can't do itthemselves and they don't feel
comfortable doing it themselves.
So if we can help createenvironments of the social
connection or say, encouragethem, reach out to somebody.
Just find someone that you arecomfortable with and people will
find their own tribe that theycan then help each other out.
And here's what's fascinatingwhen it was asked what number do
(27:48):
you need to feel like youbelong and you have someone to
go, the number was one.
People just need one, and thenwhat usually happens?
That one person then introducesyou to another and then you
have three, and so it just goes.
Erich Bolz (28:00):
Well, and we know that in the first 30 days of
ninth grade if a student fostersa connection with one adult in
the schoolhouse, that thechances of them graduating from
high school are massivelyenhanced.
Eric Price (28:10):
Yeah, and students with behavior issues right.
Just one healthy adultrelationship right.
Erich Bolz (28:16):
Get them a friend who's a peer and one healthy
adult and it's amazing whathappens.
I also wonder, as I'm kind ofthinking this through, dr Bray,
why do you think there's not abigger nexus to the increase
that we would obviously see inschool achievement and these
simple relational practices?
Dr. CK Bray (28:30):
It's a hard.
I think COVID played a lot intothat and I think a lot of the
change in just the world and howwe work that it actually is
pulling us apart.
Now one of the killers of thisis social media and we know and
now people are cringing anddon't turn off, your don't turn
off.
(28:51):
The surgeon general, dr VivikMurthy, came out recently and I
don't know if you saw it, sayingthat social media for youth
that there is, literally it isno benefit to them and could
possibly be harmful.
Now the surgeon general cameout and said that the American
Academy of Family Practice, theAcademy of Pediatrics, the
(29:14):
American PsychologicalAssociation, the Public Health
and the National PTA came outsaying we agree their literacy
there.
We cannot find one benefit tosocial media and in fact it's
most likely harmful.
And for that to come out fromthe US surgeon general just lets
you know that that is pullingthem away from the connection
(29:35):
that they need, because,remember, when we have likes and
responses, it's that all senseof connection that gives us an
immediate, but it's the notlong-term thing, because I can't
call the likes when I'm supersubtle and I did do great on a
test or I didn't make the teamor people left me out at lunch.
Eric Price (29:51):
I can't call the likes, but I can call them, but
they feel like they have thatconnection right.
Erich Bolz (29:55):
And that was a succinct analysis to my high
school career.
I just want to point that out.
Dr. CK Bray (30:02):
I will be your friend.
I will be your friend.
We will be friends.
There's one, there's your one,because the other two guys are
all talking.
Eric Price (30:09):
Yeah, I already know that.
Okay, Dr Bray, you said you hada couple more for us.
I want to hear your nuggets.
Dr. CK Bray (30:15):
Okay.
So talking about the educatorsand this is going to be pretty
much the dichotomy of what Isaid earlier.
So we're talking about socialconnection, we're talking about
breathing, we're talking aboutchecking in, we're talking about
good rest.
Educators should get reallygood rest.
But on the flip side of that,what can we do in the school?
Are you ready for this?
Number one keep learning.
The brain loves to learn.
(30:36):
It makes your brain feel sogood and they're in a learning
environment.
Educators should beconsistently learning.
Now, that could be anything.
That could be.
We're listening to TED Talks.
That could be.
We're reading different books.
That could be a structurededucational type of thing
happening within the school.
But I have seen we all haveeducation changes lives.
(30:57):
Second part of that.
So I would say and people saywhere do I have time?
I'm saying I don't care ifyou're even learning the guitar,
you have to be learningsomething all the time.
And hopefully there's one thingin your work area that you can
always be improving, cause thenwe know we're better for the
students, we're better for theparents, we enjoy it more.
(31:18):
But then also somethingpersonally.
You know we should bepersonally learning, whether it
be cooking or gardening or thepiano or pickleball or whatever
it is.
Now the second part of that isevery year, principles educators
should take on a challenge, ahard challenge.
Now, let's think of it this wayAnything that we're proud of in
our lives that we'veaccomplished 99% of them were
(31:39):
difficult and hard, and we feltand we struggled so every year.
I don't care who you are, ifyou're human, you need to take
on a challenge, something thatyou say.
This is going to be super hard,but in the end of it, it's what
makes us proud of who we are,what makes us feel like we can
accomplish more Every year.
I would love it if a principalwould talk to an educator, maybe
(32:02):
back and forth what's your hardthing this year, whether it be
personal or professional, whatare you going to do that you
really are going to put your allinto?
That's a little bit scary.
Eric Price (32:10):
Yeah, and they got to have a little bit of grit
there, right?
It can't be this.
You also participated.
Here's your trophy, becausethey see right through it.
Right, they've got to put alittle bit of skin in the game,
right?
Dr. CK Bray (32:20):
Absolutely.
I love that you shared that.
I want them to think in theirbrains can I do this?
Can I really accomplish this?
Because here's what we find inthe brain even if they come
close to it, even if they gethalfway there, the self-efficacy
increases, self-esteemincreases because they find out
I can do more than I thought Icould do.
That's really what educationand life experience is all about
(32:42):
.
Eric Price (32:42):
Wow, Dr Bray, so many things here that you have
shared with us.
I know I'm overloaded.
It doesn't take much, Just likeyour own podcast.
We're going to try toencapsulate this.
Our master of summarization isEric Boles.
Bolesy, what do you got for it?
(33:02):
This one's going to be achallenge.
My friend, Was I supposed?
Erich Bolz (33:06):
to be prepared to summarize today.
I'm going to start to just takeit from the top.
One of the things that Dr Braysaid right off the gap was we
talk a lot about that researchto practice gap.
I think none of us, whether wewent to teacher school or
principal school or really gotwhat we needed to deal with the
challenges at hand.
It seems like maybe we were onthe right track two or three
(33:27):
years ago when we built thatwhole educator series with Dr
Benner, with all those greatteacher SEL management
strategies and those greatstudent self-regulation
strategies In fact I noted thatDr Bray mentioned, with the
breathing certainly one of GregBenner's top strategies as well
and naming emotions.
We see that in zones ofregulation We've got some really
(33:48):
great material, I think, tofollow up with that piece of it.
Love the fact that when wetalked about resilience we
really defined that asconnection.
Connection is what helps usavoid loneliness.
I'm taking up smoking as aresult of this podcast because
smoking is much better for youthan loneliness.
(34:09):
That was my big takeaway there.
Nice take away, you're welcome.
Obviously, having thatone-carrying adult in your life,
having that one-peer connection, makes a huge difference.
I like how Dr Bray really madethat connection, not only for
students but for our classroomteachers as well.
We hear a lot about mindfulnessand I think we wonder.
(34:30):
Sometimes we throw these wordsout but they don't help us
foster a common lexicon.
I started mapping tomindfulness, all these really
simple strategies, namingemotions, deep breathing.
These are things that we canput in our toolkit, that we like
to call at the Center forEducational Effectiveness
low-touch, high-impactstrategies.
What we mean by low-touch is itdoesn't require going to a
conference, it doesn't requirenights and weekends and all the
(34:52):
things that are just onerous forour teachers and principals.
At this point, these are thingsthat he named that we can do
tomorrow.
That psychological safety isreally important.
Again, coming back to episode 10with Chuck Salinas and Suzanne
Gertz, the power of thoseone-on-one conversations and
really authenticating,validating what folks are
feeling, starts to create someof that self-efficacy.
(35:13):
Oh my gosh, all of a sudden myadministrator cares about me.
Or as a student, all of asudden my teacher cares about me
.
We want to go the extra milefor people who care for us in
this life.
That extra mile is what createsthat multiplier effect.
I sure do a bright lineconnection to wow.
These strategies are reallyimportant if ultimately we want
to fix that ultimate leggingindicator that by policy we're
(35:36):
all held accountable for, thatbeing student achievement when
we really continues to validatethat boy, this culture side of
it matters.
Then we segwayed intoorganizational development,
really starting to think aboutit from the principal standpoint
.
I don't know how many principalprep programs out there in the
United States are saying, hey,job one is to really create
social connection.
It sounds like they all shouldbe.
(35:56):
Social connection again leadsto that efficacy which leads to
empowerment.
Empowerment leads todistributed leadership.
When we give control back itcreates that virtuous cycle of
what John Hattie would thendefine as collective teacher
efficacy.
Absolutely loved all of that.
Social connection leads tocollaboration and collaboration
(36:18):
manifests itself inside of ahealthy culture of vulnerability
, social media.
No benefit to youth whatsoever.
Would be remiss if I hadn'tpointed out the 555.
Inside of your day, just takingthose intentional breaks to let
the brain reset Boy, I'm notgood at that, working and
getting better at that all thetime.
It matters for us as leaders,it matters for us as
(36:40):
instructional leaders in theclassroom.
It matters to our students.
Again, healthy whole children,whole teachers and healthy whole
principals lead to higherachievement, then finally love
how we punctuated that.
Education changes lives.
It makes all possible thatwe're hardwired to learn.
We need to take on greatchallenges because when we learn
(37:01):
we can do hard things.
It resets that entire cycle.
Dr Bray, thanks for giving us aton to think about.
Thank you for really chunkingit out in terms of things that
we can do at the student level,things that teachers can do for
students and for themselves, andthen ultimately helping our
principals understand what jobone was.
Eric Price (37:20):
Thank you for putting it down at a level that
Bullsy and I can understand.
Dr Bray, that's an art rightthere.
Oh, my man, Dr Bray, you've gota couple of books out.
Best job ever rethink yourcareer, redefine rich,
revolutionize your life.
I know that is USA Todaybestseller.
You also came out with how toraise remarkable kids without
(37:40):
talking to them.
My wife is anxiously waitingfor how to stay married with
your husband.
You don't have to talk to him.
Whenever you come out with that, that's going to be fantastic.
I had actually started doingthose sticky notes from my
daughter and it is amazing.
I would absolutely push you togo to that.
Where can our listeners getmore books and listen to your
(38:02):
podcast?
Where can they find that?
Dr. CK Bray (38:03):
Oh sure you bet.
Well, books are on Amazon oranywhere that you pretty much
buy books.
You can buy the two books.
We have a new brain book comingout, probably first, middle
part of next year, having towith a lot of what we talked
about and taking all this goodresearch and putting it down.
You can also go totheadaptioninstitutecom and
there you can sign up for anewsletter.
It comes out once a week withjust some really good short tips
(38:25):
around the brain being happierand healthier at work as well as
being happier, healthier athome.
I cover just a gambit of topicsand you can listen to the
podcast.
Anywhere you listen to podcasts.
It's the doctor's decay ratioand mine is just a short 15, 20
minutes.
I give one topic, we hit ithard and then let it go.
(38:45):
Lots of great information outthere, all of them free, but the
books yeah.
Eric Price (38:51):
You've got a fantastic podcast.
You're way more engaging thanBulls and I together.
If you get bored of us, golisten to Dr CK Bray.
Dr Bray, is there anything thatwe missed or you'd like to add
onto this litany of amazingwisdom?
Dr. CK Bray (39:06):
I think the most important thing is keep your
brain healthy.
It is the most important thingso that you can not only age and
have longevity, but you'regoing to be super smart.
While you do it, take care ofyour brain.
It's the most important thingyou can do.
Eric Price (39:21):
Thank you, Dr Bray, for being on the show.
Fantastic to have you.
Erich Bolz (39:25):
And thanks to all of you for joining us today on
Outliers in Education.
You can find this episode andmore anywhere you listen to your
favorite podcast or listen tous online at effectivenessorg.
Until next time, this has beenOutliers in Education.
Ad VO (39:45):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive changein your school or district, take
a moment to visit CEE, theCenter for Educational
Effectiveness, Ateffectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
And Cleo thanks a lot forwatching this show.
Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the
Center for EducationalEffectiveness.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
To find out more, visiteffectivenessorg.
Eric Price (00:15):
During the first 25 years of life.
The human brain is theconstruction site.
As educators, that puts us inthe role of onsite foreman,
trying to run a safe, successfulbuild.
But are we looking at the rightblueprints?
Put on your hard hats as wedelve into the neural mechanisms
of learning.
On this episode of Outliers inEducation.
Ad VO (00:36):
I think we really need to change how we look at what we
do in schools.
Everything that we do aseducators, it just comes back to
people.
Erich Bolz (00:44):
I love it, even when it's hard, especially when it's
hard.
Ultimately, I mean, this isabout what's best for kids.
Eric Price (00:52):
Hey everyone, Eric Price here back for another
mind-expanding episode ofOutliers in Education.
I'm joined, as always, by mybig brain co-host, Eric Boles
from the Center for EducationalEffectiveness, and we're getting
ready to put on our thinkingcaps today as we explore the
intersection between education,neuroscience and culture.
Bullsy, I know we've talkedabout culture and education as
(01:15):
that kind of being a precursorto looking at those academic
improvements.
You're in the trenches a lotwith K-12 leaders and
administrators and teachers.
Are you still seeing?
Those same things hold true.
Erich Bolz (01:30):
Well, in a word, yes , EP, and I am so excited to be
able to delve into this wholecontext of organizational
development.
One of the things that we'vetalked about as longtime
practicing principles was, ifyou survive as a principal, you
sort of intuitively figure outthat your role is to really
facilitate better culture insideof your school environment.
But it's not explicitly taught,at least it was not in our
(01:53):
experience in principal prepschool.
So I know that when I was aprincipal I didn't have a label
to hang on it.
So I think this podcast willhelp us a great deal in helping
school leaders know that there'sactually a discipline called
organizational development.
And then what are thoseconcrete things that we should
be doing as leaders tofacilitate that improved and
enhanced culture?
(02:13):
So I'm really excited about ourconversation today, EP.
Eric Price (02:15):
Yeah, I think that's a great point.
We just absolutely were nottaught this sort of thing, and
we're going to learn more aboutour brains in this podcast, but
we continue to learn more aboutour brains all the time and
we're going to take a look atare we really applying what
we've learned about culture,brains, organization, and are we
applying that to education, theway in which we teach and the
way in which we run our schoolsand districts?
(02:36):
And here we've got to help us.
Dr CK Bray.
He's a cognitive behavioralresearcher.
He specializes in change,adaption, human performance and
potential and is known for hisability to take complex research
and make it understandable topeople like me.
That's a low bar.
Dr Bray has a PhD inorganizational development and
(02:56):
learning, a second PhD inindustrial organizational
psychology with an emphasis incognitive science.
And, Dr Bray I heard thisthrough the grapevine that when
you were a kid, you wanted to bea game show host.
Dr Bray, welcome to the show.
Dr. CK Bray (03:11):
Thank you, it is true, and I would have been a
good one.
Eric Price (03:16):
I would like to see that game.
What would it be called, DrBray?
Dr. CK Bray (03:20):
Oh, I wanted to take something over like
pressure luck.
Eric Price (03:23):
I would have just Dr Bray, let's get into a big
boulder to begin with.
If we take a look, you'veobviously done a bunch of a lot
of education and research.
So one of those things thatwill help our listeners and
Bolsey and me kind of thinkthrough some things is, with all
the things that we know aboutthe brain, organization and
(03:45):
culture and we start to look atthe way in which schools are
doing business.
If you could say, hey, weshould probably change a few
things, what would those fewthings be that you would change
in our practice and education?
Dr. CK Bray (03:58):
It's a phenomenal question and you almost hate to
answer it because alreadyeducators are overwhelmed
because there's so much to doand curriculum and everything,
and so obviously I appreciateeverything that they're doing
for the six children I've hadthat have been educated and
realizing what that is.
But as COVID's hit and timesare changing, we are realizing
(04:20):
that what needs to be taught ornoticed is changing.
That's things like watching foranxiety and depression,
watching for some of thosehealth disorders and
prioritizing some of those earlyinterventions.
And when I say interventionsdon't think big, I'm thinking
small things that you can do inthe classroom with classrooms as
a whole or individuals,literally in three to four
(04:42):
minutes that change the brain.
Because a lot of times when wetalk about health disorders,
especially around those and Ilove your beginning when we're
talking about those who areunder 24, is the brain is just
developing.
It's not fully cooked.
There's still new neuralnetworks and synapses all
connected and so there are a lotof good things to that in that
they're learning, they're quicklearners, but also the brain's
(05:05):
having to really stop and saywhat's important, what's not
important.
Let's get rid of some of theseneural networks and some of
these synapses so that we canreally focus on what's important
.
So, as we look at a lot ofwhat's mental health, that is
one thing that educators reallyneed to be trained on and then
also be able to begin to notice.
And as a part of that, I'd saynumber two is just tools to deal
(05:26):
with it.
What are some really short, forlack of a better term just hard
hitting tools that can be usedto change a child's brain in
three to five minutes.
They can teach them how to havesome emotional regulation, how
to notice the emotions, but also, if they are dealing with
depression, anxiety or even justincreased stress, what happens
(05:48):
when we take a test or have todo a presentation is what ways
can we change what's happeningin our brain, the electrical
currents in the brain, thechemicals that are being
released in the brain, to reallybring out the best in that
student?
Now something else that wentaway and it started to come back
it's physical health.
We are now realizing more thanever, especially in the last
(06:10):
five years, the connectionbetween physical health and a
really healthy brain.
Now remember, the brain is thecaptain of all of these young
people's ship, and so some ofthem are living on Jeff Bezos
yachts and have great brainsthat are working.
Some are in little teenydingies that are just being
built in, sometimes maybe aboutready to sink, and so what we
(06:31):
wanna do is, because they arethe captain of their ship, we
know that being active plays akey role in their brain health
and the development of theirbrain, and not just, like I said
, the structural or the chemicalor the electrical or the
physiological part of the brain,but we're also looking at
relieving stress throughphysical activity, calming you
(06:52):
know, and what it feels likeafter you've exercised, but also
how good it makes you feel andhow many really great aspects
are connected to, you know,being physical and the brain.
So it's really intertwining themInstead of just PE.
What can we do in these 90minute learning cycles, or two
hour learning cycles, dependingon the age of?
Eric Price (07:12):
the student?
Yeah right.
And if you're talking aboutlike in the classroom, dr Bray,
are you talking like a teachercould just stop for a couple of
minutes and do something?
Dr. CK Bray (07:20):
Absolutely.
So they may go to PE, but I'mthinking what things can you do
in five minutes that change thebrain?
And I'll go through somedifferent things, but we call it
the 555, which you canliterally change the brain in
five minutes, three times fiveminutes between, you know, eight
noon, five minutes betweenlunchtime there, 12, two o'clock
, and five minutes between twoand three, three thirty, when
(07:42):
they get out of school.
It's really changed the brainand, like I said, there are
things that teachers can do andthe sad thing is and you know
this as well sometimes we haveall this great research but it
never filters down to the right.
Yeah, let me throw in two otherthings.
This is my list.
Too long already, not at all.
Keep going.
Yeah, educators are going.
Oh for this.
But another one is resilience.
(08:03):
Now, I know that has beenbecome a major play.
My children have learned it.
I love it when they learn aboutresilience and it's an ongoing
topic that they have, but thenalso learning about community
and connection.
Now, connection is key to brainhealth, key to decision making,
key to happiness and meaningand purpose.
Like relational connections.
Yes, absolutely, connectionswith students, connections with
(08:25):
teachers, connections withprincipals, where we're getting,
you know, really goodconnections in there, a sense of
community in the school place.
So we're bringing in the PTA,we're bringing in teachers and
librarians and PE and music andreally creating that connection
around relationships.
Because we do know brain health, I mean really, what is it?
(08:47):
Isolation and loneliness nowhas been shown to be worse than
cigarette smoking.
If you're going to smoke acouple packs a day, it's better
to do that than to be lonely.
And, as we all know, lonelinessis very apparent with a lot of
the youth today who are underthe age of 18.
Eric Price (09:02):
So just to underline or get an outliner on this one,
being lonely is the same assmoking a couple of packs of
cigarettes a day.
Dr. CK Bray (09:12):
It's worse, smokes, worse, wow.
And we're not talkingloneliness over a year, we're
talking where, and remember letme caveat here and you could
always just interrupt because Iget going and you'll never get a
word in edgewise.
And we talk about loneliness.
People can have a lot of peoplearound and still lonely, and
also people can just feel lonelyand have no friends around.
(09:34):
So it's being able to noticewhat are the some of the signs
that people are lonely?
Because we can changeloneliness literally in you know
, just one or two activities orone or two connections that
people all of a sudden feel like.
It's like when anybody's beennew to a school and you walk in
and it's lunchtime.
It's the most horrifyingfeeling of who do I eat with it?
And that ends that cascade ofchemicals and cortisol.
(09:58):
And just someone saying comeand sit with me changes the
chemicals released in the brain.
You're getting dopamine, you'regetting serotonin, I have
friends, I belong, I'm motivatedto get more friends now, and so
changing that will really helpwith brain health.
Eric Price (10:14):
So again the 555,.
What was that again?
Dr. CK Bray (10:16):
Okay, so what we do and we'll talk about some of
the tools, but you want 15minutes in a school day and I
always like to say between eightand 11, probably somewhere
between five minutes there, fiveminutes between 11 and one and
five minutes between the end ofthe school day that we need to
reset the brain.
It's like your phone that theapp stopped working.
Same goes for children's brains.
(10:37):
We have to stop and reset it.
Erich Bolz (10:39):
Boy, you've covered a lot of ground and I've made a
lot of connections to some ofour work.
We've got a wonderful series inpartnership with Dr Greg Benner
from the University of Alabama,called the whole educator
series.
So those SEL strategies thatare practical management
strategies in the classroom aswell as student self-regulation
strategies we have in spades.
We have international filmmakerAaron Christopher on two of our
(11:00):
podcasts talking about theepidemic that's loneliness in
our society.
So take us through somepractical strategies on the
student side and then maybewe'll segue into all right.
Now let's talk to principles alittle bit Perfect.
Dr. CK Bray (11:12):
All right, let's talk about some of these
strategies that we can do inunder five minutes that change
the brain, and I'll give anoverview and literally people
can Google it.
Now you have to be careful.
Make sure you go to a researchsite that gives you and most
likely that's going to be auniversity or research
institution that gives some goodthings.
But some of these tools thatyou can do in the five, five,
(11:33):
five.
So the first one that I wouldsay is one of the best ways to
get students to reset theirbrain is deep breathing.
It's that simple Now what we'veshown, that if you can get
students for even a minute ortwo minutes to do some deep
breathing together, you knowyou're inhaling through the nose
, you're exhaling through themouth.
That you know.
(11:53):
Really, it's that simple thatit changes the brain.
It changes the brain waves.
You know we get to.
You know some of the alpha andtheta brain waves that are the
calming type of brain waves.
We get more emotionalregulation.
The amygdala doesn't go to thefight or flight, so we get that
calming feeling just bybreathing it out.
Now, for those who are in highschool, maybe want to get super
(12:13):
fancy in the two to threeminutes there.
You know you can do boxbreathing and there are a lot of
books that you can buy on theseand that's where you inhale and
you count to four, you hold forfour and you exhale for four
and then you breathe in for four, because what it's doing is
it's just really calming thebrain, it's resetting it and if
we have a new learning activitygoing on, maybe we have a new
(12:35):
subject going on.
If if just students could forthree minutes at the beginning
of class and I'll give anothercouple of things that we can do
here is just do some deepbreathing.
It sets the brain up to learn.
Now, when we talk about learning, we talk about creating those
new neural pathways and gettingjust really the brain firing.
It is all about number one, asyou know, the environment, of
(12:55):
course, but number two it's theinternal environment, especially
if kids are, you know, thinkingabout recess or what homework,
or do my friends think I belong,or I have soccer practice.
After we have all these things,deep breathing clears the mind
and lets them focus on this newlearning activity.
We know that learning increasesif we just do some three
minutes of deep breathing and ofcourse, students will laugh at
(13:17):
it and say this is crazy, buthere's what we do know, if you
can literally do it for aboutfour days in a row, students and
adults will begin to notice.
Notice that difference.
Eric Price (13:26):
So you're telling me I have a dysregulated kid, like
a kid that's got behaviorissues or I have difficulty
attending.
If I can just spend this threeminutes breathing, that that
will help my brain to reset to aplace where I can learn better.
Dr. CK Bray (13:40):
Oh, absolutely.
And before we ever even talk,if we can say, oh, let's just
deep breathe for a minute, we'reresetting their brain, and we
do that for two minutes, saywe're going to do this five or
six times, it's going to calm usboth down so we can help solve
the problem.
And you know how importantcommunication is there.
But like, this is what we'regoing to do, this is going to be
the end result, then we canhelp really begin to calm them
(14:03):
down.
Because whenever, especially ifyou're a teacher or a principal
, and all of a sudden we'regoing to have a conversation
that they know is not going tobe a good conversation, we want
to move them from fight orflight that hey, this is going
to be a threat state that I'm in, so I get defensive.
Everybody regulation is myhands start sweating, my blood
(14:26):
pressure goes up, I'm focusingin on the problem, so everything
that helps solve the problemdisappears, whereas if we can
calm that fight or flight down,all of a sudden it opens up
everything that makes us reallybe at our best.
So I can learn better, I canlisten better, I can make better
decisions.
I'm going to change my behaviormore easily by doing that.
Now can I throw a littlewhipped cream and cherry on?
(14:47):
Yo, whipped cream, baby.
Okay.
So I do this with adults.
We do it almost before everyworkshop, we do this at keynotes
, so it's not just for students.
I do this for adults in theworkplace who get very amped up
and very much in a fight orflight, is doing a quick
check-in.
So let's breathe.
Now just tell me how you are.
Give me descriptive words.
(15:08):
If we're talking, you know, arewe angry, am I upset?
And here's what we don't, wedon't want to say why.
Now let me be super clear,because the research this is the
most fun research you're goingto.
Well, some of you.
I want to name the emotionsbecause here's what we have
found in adults and studentsthat if I just name the emotion,
(15:30):
if I'm upset or I'm angry orI'm frustrated and the more I
can name the better.
So we need to teach peoplethose emotion words.
It decreases the emotionalvelocity that fight or flight
with 50% faster than if youdidn't tell me the words.
So I'm not trying to figurethings out.
I'm not trying to tell you whyI'm upset.
(15:50):
All I'm doing is naming theemotion I'm upset, frustrated.
It decreases and takes you outof fight or flight 50% faster
than if you're angry.
Eric Price (15:59):
So if you're talking about self-care for our
teachers, or, I would say, ouradministrators, this is
something that we could be doingas well.
Dr. CK Bray (16:07):
Oh, teachers absolutely should be doing a
whole lot of breathing, maybe weshould say a 10, 10, 10 for
them, but absolutely just a five, five, five, if they can.
Just before class begins a newclass, just take some deep
breaths and just do a quickcheck-in.
(16:27):
How am I doing?
It isn't even better if you'rea little vocal, say, man, I'm a
little stressed out.
I know this class is a littlemore difficult, it's a little
more high strung, somechallenging maybe students.
But I'm just gonna take somedeep breaths, it just, and
remember the more you do it, thebetter effect and faster effect
it has.
Eric Price (16:44):
Wow we've got a lot to think about here.
We'll be right back to go evendeeper after this quick break on
Outliers in Education.
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Eric Price (17:58):
Welcome back everyone to Outliers in
Education.
Today we're getting some helpwrapping our minds around how
the neurosciences can inform ourapproach to education from
cognitive behavioral researcherDr CK Bray.
Dr Bray, I know you have workedwith Fortune 500 companies.
If you were gonna say, hey, ifyou're a principal or a
(18:18):
superintendent and you reallywant to start to create some of
these cultures that have gottrust imbued, trust driven and
based, what would those bigthings be for a leader to get a
culture that really has some ofthose really strong trust pieces
in it that we know are gonnasupport some good learning?
Dr. CK Bray (18:39):
I love that you said trust, because number one
right now in the workplace ispsychological safety.
I want to feel like I'm safeemotionally, that I can speak up
and share my thoughts andfeelings and that I'm not
constantly worrying is someonejudging me?
If I don't do this right, is myjob in jeopardy.
(18:59):
So we want to have a lot ofpsychological safety.
And you say trust here.
Trust absolutely then trumpsthe psychological safety,
because it's just creating thattrust.
And how do we do it?
It's the little, small thingsthat create the psychological
safety.
So as a principal or a leaderor superintendent or whatever it
is, we can get up on our podiumand talk about psychological
(19:22):
safety.
But it's the little things ofgoing around to the classroom or
the lunch break and talkingabout how are you doing, how are
things going, and it's not evennecessarily giving recognition
what you can do, but it'sappreciation of things for what
you're doing.
We sure appreciate your hardwork.
We sure appreciate what a greatteacher, educator you are.
Eric Price (19:41):
So they feel like they're being seen or
acknowledged.
Dr. CK Bray (19:44):
Seen and heard.
Those are two things for us tobe at our best, and some of our
greatest need, once we have foodand water, is please see, hear
and value, and once I have thosethree, I can do amazing things.
And just a side note, what doesthat do?
When we're seen, heard andvalued, it unlocks in our genes
what's called the potential gene, and that potential gene is I
(20:06):
can do more than I thought Icould do, in other words, that
self-efficacy.
So when I feel like you valueme and you see me and hear me,
you're going to see me do thingsthat are going to surprise me
and probably surprise you.
So, Dr Bray, I think a lot.
Erich Bolz (20:20):
Transfers are going to be made from the business
world to school leadership.
Having gone back and forth nowtwice in three decades, what
would you tell a young principalin terms of what's job one?
In this regard, they're hung upwith high stakes tests and get
those scores up.
How well they do there may notcontribute a whole lot to their
tenure.
The overall health of thebuilding.
What would you suggest they doinstead or in supplementation?
Dr. CK Bray (20:42):
I mean I think the number one and of course, all
those things are important youknow, those test scores and
grades and dealing with parentsand all those things are very
important but specifically forthe educators in her school or
his school, I'd say the numberone thing is create and I don't
know if I'd number these asorder of importance, but create
(21:03):
a social connection.
We need to make sure that weare a team.
Together, we have each other'sbacks and there's a social
connection.
Now, my mom was a second gradeteacher for about 28 years and
the connection she had with herfellow educators was
unbelievable, almost unmatchedin any I've seen in any
corporate type of setting.
(21:23):
For some reason, there'ssomething that bonds educators
in what they do, so I think thatit lends itself to that already
Now.
A second thing I'd say to a newprincipal and this is the
hardest thing to do is we haveto let people make decisions.
We have to give them freedomand autonomy, because the moment
I have autonomy, it's not I'mdoing what you want me to do,
(21:45):
but I feel like I have greatideas and things that I want to
do and can we talk about it andcollaborate together so that I
feel like I have autonomy, Ihave a sense of control that
they are driving those behaviorsthere.
Eric Price (21:55):
Yes, absolutely.
Dr. CK Bray (21:57):
They're taking control and making decisions in
their classroom, working incollaboration with the
leadership of the school.
That sense of control goes along way to feeling like I have
meaning and purpose.
Now, when we have a sense ofcontrol, our meaning and purpose
go up.
Now that's the dopaminechemical in the brain, because
the moment I feel like I havecontrol, I become motivated and
(22:20):
that dopamine is let me takemore action.
So what then begins to happenis I think of better ways,
things I could do for theclassroom or those students.
So we wanna give them thatsense of control, even if it
means let's sit and talk abouthow we can collaborate, cause
there are certain things comingdown from the district, coming
from places, and the principlethat we have to collaborate
together.
But, boy, as much control as heor she can turn over, the
(22:42):
better that is for thatteacher's brain.
Eric Price (22:44):
And does it?
Is it snowball then, when theyfeel more in control than they
want to take more and they wantto invest more?
Does that how it works?
Dr. CK Bray (22:52):
Absolutely.
You're gonna learn a lot aboutthat educator through giving
them more control.
I'd say a large percentage ofthose are going to take it and
run with it and you're gonna seethem do amazing things and
we've seen them do amazingthings.
There are gonna be some whowill not run with it and that's
gonna tell you some of theinformation that you probably
already knew.
But maybe they're in it for thewrong reasons.
But those who love the studentswhich what teacher doesn't?
(23:15):
That's why you went into it.
Love the students, loveeducating them, helping them
develop and grow into theselittle great humans.
When the moment my autonomygets taken away, I check out
because you're running the show.
Now you're running the show.
I'm not running the show.
Eric Price (23:28):
Are there any other things that are like big bang
for a buck?
If I'm really trying to boostthat social, emotional health of
my staff, what other thingswould you offer?
Dr. CK Bray (23:39):
Okay.
So I would first go back and goback to the breathing, the
check ins also, and it's hard todo but say the physio are we
walking, are we moving?
Because that has so much impacton the brain.
But what you could really doinside the school is that social
connection.
It is so important for there tobe a connection and to create
(24:01):
connection points.
Now, a lot of those will happenwhen they have time to work on
their lesson plans or they'retaking the class to the library,
whatever that they can.
But I would encourage thatsocial connection with other
teachers, other people who workin the building and in the
school.
And that might mean even Iwould encourage PTA, bring in a
(24:21):
lunch that we can come together.
It doesn't mean necessarilyeverybody needs to sit together,
but I want little small groupsof people connecting and saying
okay, you have to have oneperson in your group that you
don't know.
So maybe this is great teachersgonna be with the first grade
teacher or if it's advice, we'regonna have the English with the
math.
And that social connection doesso much.
Because, number one, it helpsus feel like I'm not alone in
(24:43):
this.
And when you feel like I'm notalone in this, number two, when
I have an issue with a parent,when I have an issue with a
student, you want them to go toanother teacher educator first,
and hopefully it's one who hasexperience and great ideas and
really and then maybe go to theprincipal after.
Now, it depends on what thesituation is, that parents
(25:04):
involved.
But I'm just saying, boy, ifit's something that they can
have, a relationship, they cango to someone, another educator
and learn from them.
Boy, that bonds them together.
And that social connection,people, no matter how bad that
classes or students are, if theylove their fellow teachers and
their principal, oh, they'regonna stay.
Erich Bolz (25:22):
As I sit here and I listen, I imagine you're
probably more familiar than weare with John Hattie's wonderful
research and what he says justin terms of what can be changed
inside of the schoolhouse is herefers to it as collective
teacher efficacy.
So I'm listening to you talkabout really the roadmap to that
from the principal to teachersis foster a sense of broad
social connection.
Social connection leads towanting to collaborate with your
(25:45):
peers, and when you seek yourpeers out to come up with
solutions, magic happens.
That seems like a pretty simpleroadmap to me.
Tell us why this is allshrouded in mystery.
Dr. CK Bray (25:55):
Oh, this is we're cutting into the meat.
This is the good.
We hear about all the goodthings, but oftentimes we don't
see the barriers.
So what happens is is if I'm anew teacher or I don't let's say
I've been in a school and maybeI don't know people as well as
I should is I feel like if Ireach out to them.
Number one am I gonna be notrejected, but just not accepted?
(26:16):
Number two if I go to you witha problem, what are you gonna
think of me as an educator?
You're gonna think I'm notgonna get a job.
So a lot of it's the internalrumination and internal thinking
that we have that, instead ofreaching out, we say, oh, they
don't wanna talk to me, they'rebusy, they wanna get home, they
have papers to grade and teststo create and all of these
(26:37):
things, whereas that is the key,just when we can weave those
together.
So barriers in internal talkingand our head rumination that
says, oh, what will people thinkif I reach out to somebody?
Eric Price (26:48):
Yeah, like some of that Bernay Brown vulnerability
stuff.
Erich Bolz (26:51):
Right, I was gonna go right there, ep, you want all
I beat you to you beat me tothe punch.
I'm like, wow, sounds likewe've been to the Bernay Brown
world now.
Look at all these things we'reconnecting today.
Dr. CK Bray (27:00):
Okay, I don't mean to name drop, but I was reading
somewhere for research and Iemailed her and we had an email
exchange which I still have.
Long.
She said let me come and workfor you.
I should have said will youmarry me?
No, I'm just kidding.
So, yes, the Bernay Brown partis let's get to where we can
(27:24):
help people connect in a way, soit's not some of the barriers
are these educators can't do itthemselves and they don't feel
comfortable doing it themselves.
So if we can help createenvironments of the social
connection or say, encouragethem, reach out to somebody.
Just find someone that you arecomfortable with and people will
find their own tribe that theycan then help each other out.
And here's what's fascinatingwhen it was asked what number do
(27:48):
you need to feel like youbelong and you have someone to
go, the number was one.
People just need one, and thenwhat usually happens?
That one person then introducesyou to another and then you
have three, and so it just goes.
Erich Bolz (28:00):
Well, and we know that in the first 30 days of
ninth grade if a student fostersa connection with one adult in
the schoolhouse, that thechances of them graduating from
high school are massivelyenhanced.
Eric Price (28:10):
Yeah, and students with behavior issues right.
Just one healthy adultrelationship right.
Erich Bolz (28:16):
Get them a friend who's a peer and one healthy
adult and it's amazing whathappens.
I also wonder, as I'm kind ofthinking this through, dr Bray,
why do you think there's not abigger nexus to the increase
that we would obviously see inschool achievement and these
simple relational practices?
Dr. CK Bray (28:30):
It's a hard.
I think COVID played a lot intothat and I think a lot of the
change in just the world and howwe work that it actually is
pulling us apart.
Now one of the killers of thisis social media and we know and
now people are cringing anddon't turn off, your don't turn
off.
(28:51):
The surgeon general, dr VivikMurthy, came out recently and I
don't know if you saw it, sayingthat social media for youth
that there is, literally it isno benefit to them and could
possibly be harmful.
Now the surgeon general cameout and said that the American
Academy of Family Practice, theAcademy of Pediatrics, the
(29:14):
American PsychologicalAssociation, the Public Health
and the National PTA came outsaying we agree their literacy
there.
We cannot find one benefit tosocial media and in fact it's
most likely harmful.
And for that to come out fromthe US surgeon general just lets
you know that that is pullingthem away from the connection
(29:35):
that they need, because,remember, when we have likes and
responses, it's that all senseof connection that gives us an
immediate, but it's the notlong-term thing, because I can't
call the likes when I'm supersubtle and I did do great on a
test or I didn't make the teamor people left me out at lunch.
Eric Price (29:51):
I can't call the likes, but I can call them, but
they feel like they have thatconnection right.
Erich Bolz (29:55):
And that was a succinct analysis to my high
school career.
I just want to point that out.
Dr. CK Bray (30:02):
I will be your friend.
I will be your friend.
We will be friends.
There's one, there's your one,because the other two guys are
all talking.
Eric Price (30:09):
Yeah, I already know that.
Okay, Dr Bray, you said you hada couple more for us.
I want to hear your nuggets.
Dr. CK Bray (30:15):
Okay.
So talking about the educatorsand this is going to be pretty
much the dichotomy of what Isaid earlier.
So we're talking about socialconnection, we're talking about
breathing, we're talking aboutchecking in, we're talking about
good rest.
Educators should get reallygood rest.
But on the flip side of that,what can we do in the school?
Are you ready for this?
Number one keep learning.
The brain loves to learn.
(30:36):
It makes your brain feel sogood and they're in a learning
environment.
Educators should beconsistently learning.
Now, that could be anything.
That could be.
We're listening to TED Talks.
That could be.
We're reading different books.
That could be a structurededucational type of thing
happening within the school.
But I have seen we all haveeducation changes lives.
(30:57):
Second part of that.
So I would say and people saywhere do I have time?
I'm saying I don't care ifyou're even learning the guitar,
you have to be learningsomething all the time.
And hopefully there's one thingin your work area that you can
always be improving, cause thenwe know we're better for the
students, we're better for theparents, we enjoy it more.
(31:18):
But then also somethingpersonally.
You know we should bepersonally learning, whether it
be cooking or gardening or thepiano or pickleball or whatever
it is.
Now the second part of that isevery year, principles educators
should take on a challenge, ahard challenge.
Now, let's think of it this wayAnything that we're proud of in
our lives that we'veaccomplished 99% of them were
(31:39):
difficult and hard, and we feltand we struggled so every year.
I don't care who you are, ifyou're human, you need to take
on a challenge, something thatyou say.
This is going to be super hard,but in the end of it, it's what
makes us proud of who we are,what makes us feel like we can
accomplish more Every year.
I would love it if a principalwould talk to an educator, maybe
(32:02):
back and forth what's your hardthing this year, whether it be
personal or professional, whatare you going to do that you
really are going to put your allinto?
That's a little bit scary.
Eric Price (32:10):
Yeah, and they got to have a little bit of grit
there, right?
It can't be this.
You also participated.
Here's your trophy, becausethey see right through it.
Right, they've got to put alittle bit of skin in the game,
right?
Dr. CK Bray (32:20):
Absolutely.
I love that you shared that.
I want them to think in theirbrains can I do this?
Can I really accomplish this?
Because here's what we find inthe brain even if they come
close to it, even if they gethalfway there, the self-efficacy
increases, self-esteemincreases because they find out
I can do more than I thought Icould do.
That's really what educationand life experience is all about
(32:42):
.
Eric Price (32:42):
Wow, Dr Bray, so many things here that you have
shared with us.
I know I'm overloaded.
It doesn't take much, Just likeyour own podcast.
We're going to try toencapsulate this.
Our master of summarization isEric Boles.
Bolesy, what do you got for it?
(33:02):
This one's going to be achallenge.
My friend, Was I supposed?
Erich Bolz (33:06):
to be prepared to summarize today.
I'm going to start to just takeit from the top.
One of the things that Dr Braysaid right off the gap was we
talk a lot about that researchto practice gap.
I think none of us, whether wewent to teacher school or
principal school or really gotwhat we needed to deal with the
challenges at hand.
It seems like maybe we were onthe right track two or three
(33:27):
years ago when we built thatwhole educator series with Dr
Benner, with all those greatteacher SEL management
strategies and those greatstudent self-regulation
strategies In fact I noted thatDr Bray mentioned, with the
breathing certainly one of GregBenner's top strategies as well
and naming emotions.
We see that in zones ofregulation We've got some really
(33:48):
great material, I think, tofollow up with that piece of it.
Love the fact that when wetalked about resilience we
really defined that asconnection.
Connection is what helps usavoid loneliness.
I'm taking up smoking as aresult of this podcast because
smoking is much better for youthan loneliness.
(34:09):
That was my big takeaway there.
Nice take away, you're welcome.
Obviously, having thatone-carrying adult in your life,
having that one-peer connection, makes a huge difference.
I like how Dr Bray really madethat connection, not only for
students but for our classroomteachers as well.
We hear a lot about mindfulnessand I think we wonder.
(34:30):
Sometimes we throw these wordsout but they don't help us
foster a common lexicon.
I started mapping tomindfulness, all these really
simple strategies, namingemotions, deep breathing.
These are things that we canput in our toolkit, that we like
to call at the Center forEducational Effectiveness
low-touch, high-impactstrategies.
What we mean by low-touch is itdoesn't require going to a
conference, it doesn't requirenights and weekends and all the
(34:52):
things that are just onerous forour teachers and principals.
At this point, these are thingsthat he named that we can do
tomorrow.
That psychological safety isreally important.
Again, coming back to episode 10with Chuck Salinas and Suzanne
Gertz, the power of thoseone-on-one conversations and
really authenticating,validating what folks are
feeling, starts to create someof that self-efficacy.
(35:13):
Oh my gosh, all of a sudden myadministrator cares about me.
Or as a student, all of asudden my teacher cares about me
.
We want to go the extra milefor people who care for us in
this life.
That extra mile is what createsthat multiplier effect.
I sure do a bright lineconnection to wow.
These strategies are reallyimportant if ultimately we want
to fix that ultimate leggingindicator that by policy we're
(35:36):
all held accountable for, thatbeing student achievement when
we really continues to validatethat boy, this culture side of
it matters.
Then we segwayed intoorganizational development,
really starting to think aboutit from the principal standpoint
.
I don't know how many principalprep programs out there in the
United States are saying, hey,job one is to really create
social connection.
It sounds like they all shouldbe.
(35:56):
Social connection again leadsto that efficacy which leads to
empowerment.
Empowerment leads todistributed leadership.
When we give control back itcreates that virtuous cycle of
what John Hattie would thendefine as collective teacher
efficacy.
Absolutely loved all of that.
Social connection leads tocollaboration and collaboration
(36:18):
manifests itself inside of ahealthy culture of vulnerability
, social media.
No benefit to youth whatsoever.
Would be remiss if I hadn'tpointed out the 555.
Inside of your day, just takingthose intentional breaks to let
the brain reset Boy, I'm notgood at that, working and
getting better at that all thetime.
It matters for us as leaders,it matters for us as
(36:40):
instructional leaders in theclassroom.
It matters to our students.
Again, healthy whole children,whole teachers and healthy whole
principals lead to higherachievement, then finally love
how we punctuated that.
Education changes lives.
It makes all possible thatwe're hardwired to learn.
We need to take on greatchallenges because when we learn
(37:01):
we can do hard things.
It resets that entire cycle.
Dr Bray, thanks for giving us aton to think about.
Thank you for really chunkingit out in terms of things that
we can do at the student level,things that teachers can do for
students and for themselves, andthen ultimately helping our
principals understand what jobone was.
Eric Price (37:20):
Thank you for putting it down at a level that
Bullsy and I can understand.
Dr Bray, that's an art rightthere.
Oh, my man, Dr Bray, you've gota couple of books out.
Best job ever rethink yourcareer, redefine rich,
revolutionize your life.
I know that is USA Todaybestseller.
You also came out with how toraise remarkable kids without
(37:40):
talking to them.
My wife is anxiously waitingfor how to stay married with
your husband.
You don't have to talk to him.
Whenever you come out with that, that's going to be fantastic.
I had actually started doingthose sticky notes from my
daughter and it is amazing.
I would absolutely push you togo to that.
Where can our listeners getmore books and listen to your
(38:02):
podcast?
Where can they find that?
Dr. CK Bray (38:03):
Oh sure you bet.
Well, books are on Amazon oranywhere that you pretty much
buy books.
You can buy the two books.
We have a new brain book comingout, probably first, middle
part of next year, having towith a lot of what we talked
about and taking all this goodresearch and putting it down.
You can also go totheadaptioninstitutecom and
there you can sign up for anewsletter.
It comes out once a week withjust some really good short tips
(38:25):
around the brain being happierand healthier at work as well as
being happier, healthier athome.
I cover just a gambit of topicsand you can listen to the
podcast.
Anywhere you listen to podcasts.
It's the doctor's decay ratioand mine is just a short 15, 20
minutes.
I give one topic, we hit ithard and then let it go.
(38:45):
Lots of great information outthere, all of them free, but the
books yeah.
Eric Price (38:51):
You've got a fantastic podcast.
You're way more engaging thanBulls and I together.
If you get bored of us, golisten to Dr CK Bray.
Dr Bray, is there anything thatwe missed or you'd like to add
onto this litany of amazingwisdom?
Dr. CK Bray (39:06):
I think the most important thing is keep your
brain healthy.
It is the most important thingso that you can not only age and
have longevity, but you'regoing to be super smart.
While you do it, take care ofyour brain.
It's the most important thingyou can do.
Eric Price (39:21):
Thank you, Dr Bray, for being on the show.
Fantastic to have you.
Erich Bolz (39:25):
And thanks to all of you for joining us today on
Outliers in Education.
You can find this episode andmore anywhere you listen to your
favorite podcast or listen tous online at effectivenessorg.
Until next time, this has beenOutliers in Education.
Ad VO (39:45):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive changein your school or district, take
a moment to visit CEE, theCenter for Educational
Effectiveness, Ateffectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
And Cleo thanks a lot forwatching this show.
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