January 1, 2024 • 22 mins
Andre Wicks is the creative force behind EverydayPrincipal.com, an online platform designed to connect educators and administrators with the latest research, knowledge and best practices in the field of K-12 education. A seasoned principal himself, Andre knows what his colleagues are up against on a daily basis and offers inspiring and practical insights into nurturing relationships, sustaining a vibrant school culture, and striking that ever-elusive work-life balance. Above all, courageous principals who can stand strong in support of what's best for students are what's needed most.
Check out Andre's website and latest book at:
- EverydayPrincipal.com
- "What is Standing in the Way: The Journey of Becoming Your Best Self" on Amazon.com
"Outliers in Education" is a project of CEE, The Center for Educational Effectiveness. Find out more at effectiveness.org.
Produced by Jamie Howell at Howell at the Moon Productions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ad VO (00:06):
Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the
Center for EducationalEffectiveness.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
To find out more, visiteffectivenessorg.
Eric Price (00:20):
Welcome to 2024, everyone.
I'm your co-host, eric Price,and I'm Eric Boles, and we're
here to ring in the new yearwith a brand new episode of
Outliers in Education from CEE,the Center for Educational
Effectiveness.
Ad VO (00:32):
I think we really need to change how we look at what we
do in schools, everything thatwe do as educators.
It just comes back to people.
I love it, even when it's hard,especially when it's hard.
Ultimately, I mean, this isabout what's best for kids.
Eric Price (00:48):
Can you believe that 2023 is already history?
That means we've been at thispodcast thing for three years
now.
That's incredible.
I've been thinking about my NewYear's resolution for
podcasting and I think reallyBoles this year.
I really want to listen to ourproducer when he tells me stuff.
Erich Bolz (01:05):
I think that should be perfect, because I don't plan
on ever listening to theproducer, so we should cancel
each other out and just maintainthat mediocre status quo that
has been the co-host's voice forOutliers in Education.
Eric Price (01:15):
I think that would just be perfect.
Hey, we're all trying to getbetter in some way, especially
this time of the year, but ofcourse that's our mission all
year long here at Outliers inEducation To uncover and share
the strategies, research andbest practices that help
educators reach beyond thestatus quo for their kids the
things that truly make OutliersOutliers.
We've had the good fortune tospeak with some of the smartest,
(01:37):
most innovative and caringeducators I've encountered over
these past three years, andtoday it's no different.
Everydayprincipalcom is anonline platform that shares many
of the same goals we have hereat Outliers in Education
spreading the word and toolsthat educators need to learn,
grow and improve.
Andre Wicks is the chief editorfor EverydayPrincipalcom.
(01:58):
He is also an author, aconsultant and a principal
himself with the Spokane PublicSchools.
Andre, welcome to the show.
Andre Wicks (02:07):
Thank you for that kind introduction.
Caring, smartest and mostinnovative those are my New
Year's resolutions.
Eric Price (02:14):
Well, that's good.
Somebody needs to hit that ball.
You've come to the right place.
I think Bulls and I had threestrikes on that one.
Hey, if you were going to giveme an elevator pitch for
EverydayPrincipalcom, what wouldyou say?
That it is and that it standsfor.
Andre Wicks (02:30):
The heart and the inspiration of the blog really
is to inform, influence andinspire.
That's kind of our tagline.
I have to make things simplefor myself.
So the elevator speech, themantra, the tagline, the mission
, the vision, all have to bekind of tied together.
And so when I think about theconception of EverydayPrincipal,
(02:53):
that's really what it boilsdown to.
You is just networking,crowdsourcing, really trying to
take advantage of the collectiveexperience of all the leaders
we have across the country andthe globe.
Erich Bolz (03:05):
Well, that's fantastic, and we know, because
EP and I are in the field offair amount we're both actually
recovering public educatorsourselves.
As a current principal, you'relikely overloaded with the
demands of the job, so whatcaused you to say, gosh, am I
spare time?
I'm going to take on one morething, just the additional work
of maintaining this dynamicwebsite with all these great
(03:26):
authors, everydayprincipalcom,and what motivates you to keep
it going?
Andre Wicks (03:30):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think that for me, I'vealways had a leadership spirit
about me.
I think I've always had kind ofan entrepreneurial spirit about
me as well, and over the courseof the 28 years that I've spent
in K-12, ed, I've had theopportunity to just do and try a
(03:52):
lot of different things.
A lot of the people thatinspire me are always talking
about the continuous developmentof leadership.
It's not like you go to thistraining or you read this book
or you visit this website andyou have accumulated all of the
(04:13):
acumen that you're going to needto be the best leader that you
can possibly be.
It's really this ongoingpursuit of continuous
improvement.
For me, that comes by way oflistening and watching and
observing, but then also likedoing, you know, trying some of
(04:33):
these things, and so the, theeveryday principle, honestly,
has been a vision of mine for acouple years, and it just got to
a point, quite literally, thatI just said I have to like stop,
stop talking about it, I justhave to do it.
So, so that's what I did overspring break last year.
(04:57):
I kind of I drafted out my, mybusiness plan and sketched out
my first year, that of thethings that I would like to try
to accomplish with everydayprinciple and and set my my
launch date for early July andit happened.
(05:18):
So I guess that's how it works.
Sometimes you just have to putthings in motion and throw stuff
out on the table and see.
Eric Price (05:26):
See how it happens, see how it looks imagine that if
we could stop talking and dostuff in K-12, wouldn't that be?
Wouldn't that be awesome?
When you take a look at whatyou experience on everyday
principlecom and in yourposition you have a story that
kind of amplifies some of theneeds that you kind of are
seeing consistently in thatprinciple position yeah, yeah, I
(05:49):
think that reoccurringly.
Andre Wicks (05:51):
Just you know folks that are looking for tips,
tricks, strategies in forleadership in general and you
know the the world is the oysteris your oyster when it comes to
.
When it comes to that, there'sall sorts of things.
So we have some of our authorshave written on building strong
(06:13):
relationships with students,really focusing on culture.
One of our authors has reallyemphasized a healthy work-life
balance.
Most recently we've had myselfand a couple other authors have
written about commitments thatit will take to you improve
(06:34):
student learning in the longterm, not just getting quick
results to pad stats or to makeyour data look better.
What internal commitments, whatsystems, what frameworks do you
need to have in place?
What mindsets do you need tohave in place to make those
systems and frameworks work sothat you can increase student
(06:56):
learning?
So looking at PLCs professionallearning communities is another
thing that we're really workinghard on at Pepperzac Middle
School.
We're on the principle.
We're looking at things likeequitable grading practices.
What does it really look like?
What does it really mean when astudent earns an ABCD?
(07:18):
What does it mean when astudent is failing?
Rick DeFour was the one thatsaid the things that get
monitored, get done.
That is the truth.
It was so many things that youcould be focusing on or
attending to.
You have to be thoughtful andyou have to prioritize.
What are the foundationalbuilding blocks of a healthy,
(07:43):
thriving, productive school?
Those are some of the thingsthat we're working on as well.
Eric Price (07:48):
Well, it's not every day that we get to have a
principle of this caliber on theshow.
Get it Every day principleright there.
See that, Stay with us andwe'll be right back with more
from Andre Wick right here onOutliers in Education.
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Eric Price (09:05):
Hey everybody, thanks for sticking around.
We're kicking off the new yearwith principal Andre Wick,
editor-in-chief of the onlineplatform EverydayPrincipalcom.
Erich Bolz (09:14):
So, Andre, tell me a little bit about I opened two
schools in my career.
So tell us this one story, ifnot more, that people just
wouldn't believe about what it'slike to open a school.
Andre Wicks (09:27):
In my 28 years this has been the most exciting, the
most rewarding experience I'veever had.
Some of the things with openinga school though it's, like you
know, from an outsider lookingin, I think you just kind of
assume that everything isawesome and not everything is
awesome.
So when we were first moving in, this was unbelievable.
(09:50):
We had a staff retreat plannedthe few days before school
started and so we started themorning, the half day, and then
we came up to the school to workso that teachers could move in
and stuff.
And on the second day of ourretreat, when we left the
retreat and came up to theschool, we walked in to 88
pallets of curriculum, peequipment, uniforms, I mean you
(10:17):
name it seriously all of ouroffice supplies.
I mean literally we're threeand a half months in and we're
still unpacking, we're stillgetting stuff, yeah.
So lots of unpacking, lots ofweekend time.
Eric Price (10:34):
So, andre, there's probably a lot of principles out
there listening, and so whatadvice would you give to someone
that's coming in and sitting inyour chair, I think?
Andre Wicks (10:44):
Pace.
Uh, you know not being too muchin a hurry to prove anything.
The transition into a brand newmiddle school is.
It's emotional, you know it'staxing both physically, mentally
and emotionally.
And if you're trying to do toomuch too fast without you know
really taking that intoconsideration, the excitement of
(11:08):
opening a new building quicklyturns to fatigue, resentment.
You know people wishing maybethey hadn't made the choice that
they made.
Eric Price (11:17):
Why do you think that our propensity as leaders
is to try to go faster?
Andre Wicks (11:21):
Why do you think that I think it's just the
hustle and bustle of life.
I think that innately there areoutside pressures.
I mean there's always noise,right, If you choose to listen
to all the noise, if you chooseto listen to all of the wants
and needs and asks andcomplaints, it creates that
pressure.
So I think that you just haveto have, you have to have spent
(11:44):
some time ahead of time planningfor your pace, what you're
going to tolerate and whatyou're not.
Erich Bolz (11:50):
Andre, what would you tell a colleague?
Why should they get on, checkout your site and consume
content on the everydayprinciple?
Andre Wicks (11:57):
For me, the value that I was really striving for
with the literature we provideon everyday principle is that
it's current, it's relevant,it's like what's literally
happening right now, and sothat's why I really wanted to
seek principles and leaders thatare in the field in the moment
right, and so I know that that'sa big sacrifice to ask
(12:21):
principles, assistant principles, superintendents that have been
principles, people that workwith principles to take the time
while they're serving in therole.
I think that's the added valuethat everyday principle brings
is that these are people thatare telling their own stories.
Erich Bolz (12:38):
So, in that regard, whether it's feedback from folks
who are consuming the everydayprinciple or your principal
colleagues where you work inDistrict 81 in Spokane,
washington, what do you thinkare the big themes that cause
your peers to wake up at threein the morning?
Andre Wicks (12:53):
Maybe it's just like the moral imperative my
middle school is.
I think we have one of thelowest free and reduced lunch
rates in the district, but we'restill between 35 and 40 percent
.
But there are students thatjust are experiencing and living
in complex trauma.
It's hard not to take your workpersonal when you're in the
(13:14):
field of education becauseyou're in the people business.
For me, some of the things thatwake me up in the middle of the
night are just what, what kidsneed that they're not getting.
Eric Price (13:26):
And Andre, if you're going to equip, if you were in
charge of the principalequipment room and you're going
to say, hey, here's what, here'swhat we really need out there,
what would you say?
Boy, we really need this in theprincipal ship right now, with
some structures, tools, thoughts.
Andre Wicks (13:43):
Oh, you know what?
I think that's one of thethings that we need, and this
isn't to assume that it's notthere or not deep down somewhere
, but we need courageousprinciples.
When you're in big systems,small systems really it doesn't
matter.
We talked to just a few momentsago about the pressures of
(14:07):
being a principal, and if youlet that get to you, it can
really cause you to second guess, can cause you to just not be
courageous, and I think that weneed that.
You know I kind of joke thatK12 education is notorious for
tolerating unprofessionalism and, just you know, making making
(14:27):
choices and doing things thataren't necessarily in the best
interest of kids, and we needcourageous leaders to stand up
and say that's, that's not okay.
You know, we're not going totolerate that piggybacking on
that theme of courageousprinciples.
Erich Bolz (14:42):
What does that look like, especially in a larger
system, not asking you to outyour own system.
So you know, could be Kennewick, could be Richland, could be
Pasco, could be, could be anysystem anywhere in the United
States over 10,000 students,where you've got multiple
principles pushing back on thesystem in a courageous way as a
principal and still maintainingyour ability to keep your job
(15:04):
and garner your paycheck.
What does that look like?
How does that?
How does a courageous principalwalk that line?
Andre Wicks (15:09):
I can speak for myself only and honestly would
say that I have not always beenas courageous as I could be.
I think that you know, withexperience and time, and just
really becoming aware of who Iam as a leader, being confident
in who I am as a leader, hasallowed me to be more courageous
(15:33):
.
I think being a great listener,a great observer, allows you to
gain the perspective of lots ofstakeholders and constituents.
I think that what that does isallows you to be confident in
making informed decisions, beingintentional about building
(15:53):
relationships with you know,your school directors, building
relationships with yoursuperintendent, building really,
really great relationships withyour staff, students and
families.
You know, when you have astrong school community, I think
that that really helps to builda strong foundation of
(16:13):
courageous leadership that youcan push back on things that
aren't serving students' bestinterest.
Eric Price (16:21):
That's what I think really wise, andre.
I think one of the things thatis very difficult, or we need
courage to, is to listen, askquestions and to listen to.
You know our constituents.
So, speaking of listening more.
It is the new year coming up.
Do you have any resolutions,either for yourself on
everydayprinciplecom or foryourself as a principal?
(16:43):
What's happening this comingyear, andre?
Andre Wicks (16:46):
Well, for Pepperzac Middle School, we opened with
just six and seventh grade, sonext year we'll be adding
another class of students, I'llbe adding another eight to ten
staff, and so one of the thingsthat we really committed to,
that we've been able to maintainthus far, is a culture of
(17:09):
feedback.
We really believe that nosystem or team can maximize
their potential without feedback, and so, for us, the system,
the culture of feedback allowsus to kind of test ourselves,
and so, looking ahead to nextyear, we wanna continue to test
our theories and our practices.
Eric Price (17:30):
Andre, this is the time of the show that we bring
in Dr Bowles and his amazingsummarization skills.
Bowles, take it away my man.
Erich Bolz (17:40):
Well, I just wanna say thank you for the academic
promotion number one.
Apparently, now that you'reworking at the university level,
ep, you have the ability toconvey honorary doctorates.
It is an honorarium and I wouldsay it's about time.
Yeah, exactly, so, really,starting from the top, hard to
argue with the mission of theeveryday principle, which is to
(18:00):
inform, influence and inspire.
Impress that.
Andre is one of those uniqueindividuals who stopped talking
about it and just decided to doit, but he started with a plan.
Imagine what would happen if weall started with a well-written
business plan.
I don't know that we'd all bethis successful, but inside of
about six months he's amassed areadership of 50,000 readers.
(18:21):
The goal of the everydayprinciple again, is that super
noble, informed, influenced,inspire, really leading towards
the kind of connection I madewas collective principle
efficacy.
So we can learn a lot from eachother.
We know that one of the biggestimpacts we can have is
fostering a climate andbuildings that leads to great
teacher collective efficacy.
(18:42):
But maybe our best bet to dothis in the isolated position
that's the principle is to reachout and learn from each other.
The link I really made to theOutlier Study, especially given
the mission of everydayprinciple is lifelong learning.
One of our commoncharacteristics that we saw
across these incredible schoolsin Washington state was folks
who really committed to lifelonglearning and loved what Andre
(19:04):
said about pace.
I think anything that we can doto just slow things down at this
point is better for everybody.
We're all overloaded.
Our culture lends itself tothat.
We hear over and over againthat educators are frazzled.
So that calm leadership, Ithink, is critically important
and never more important than ata new school.
(19:25):
Haven't done that thing twice.
People really do hit a wallabout this time of year because
it's an incredible amount ofenergy to open a brand new
institution on everyone's behalf.
What keeps Andre up?
Kids in trauma?
That might sound familiar.
We've had an awful lot ofguests on Outliers in Education
really speaking towards wherekids are at contemporary in
(19:47):
mental health and with trauma.
You might want to check outwhat Jim Spore later and Dr
Corey Callahar, superintendentof Wenatchee School District,
have to say abouttrauma-informed practice in
earlier episodes of Outliers inEducation.
Good principles are greatlisteners.
They take feedback from allconstituents and hey, that's
what we do at CEE.
We really help measure whereconstituents are at and their
(20:09):
perceptions around school.
So Andre's management bywalking around practices David
Packard would be proud of Andretoday for mentioning that
approach is something that'sreal congruent with the work
that we do.
And then I think the piece thatcomes through is having the
courage to take the time tobuild great relationships.
(20:29):
We know that schools are allabout the relationships.
Our most effective schools haveincredibly strong cultures, by
the way.
We can help you measure andbuilding those courageous
relationships takesvulnerability, and we hear this
from many of our great guests.
So, in summary, I'd like tothank Andre so much for what he
shared and really do agree it'sall about the relationships, and
(20:53):
the ability for Andre to usehis platform to inform,
influence and inspire Makes himan absolutely outstanding guest
here on Outliers in Education.
Eric Price (21:00):
Andre, it sounds like you need some more things
to do.
Juggle some more balls.
Apparently, you wrote a book in21.
What is standing in the way thejourney of becoming your best
self?
Is that a book for educators?
Andre Wicks (21:12):
Absolutely.
That was another book actuallyinspired by other educators.
I was actually giving a keynoteto educators and essentially
it's just kind of going back tothat idea of stop talking and
just doing.
What's standing in the way is abook about getting out of your
own way to enjoy the things thatyou've always wanted in life.
Eric Price (21:30):
And where can they find that book, Andre?
Andre Wicks (21:32):
On.
Eric Price (21:32):
Amazon, all right, and you can check out other
blogs and resources available ateverydayprinciplecom.
Andre, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for being on the show,my friend.
Thank you, it's been mypleasure.
Erich Bolz (21:45):
And happy New Year to all of you who are listening
in today.
You can find us anywhere youlisten to your favorite podcast
or visit us online ateffectivenessorg.
Until next time.
This has been Outliers inEducation, and that's a wrap
music playing].
Ad VO (22:00):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive changein your school or district, take
a moment to visit CEE, theCenter for Educational
Effectiveness, ateffectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools Effectivenessorg.
Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the
Center for EducationalEffectiveness.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
To find out more, visiteffectivenessorg.
Eric Price (00:20):
Welcome to 2024, everyone.
I'm your co-host, eric Price,and I'm Eric Boles, and we're
here to ring in the new yearwith a brand new episode of
Outliers in Education from CEE,the Center for Educational
Effectiveness.
Ad VO (00:32):
I think we really need to change how we look at what we
do in schools, everything thatwe do as educators.
It just comes back to people.
I love it, even when it's hard,especially when it's hard.
Ultimately, I mean, this isabout what's best for kids.
Eric Price (00:48):
Can you believe that 2023 is already history?
That means we've been at thispodcast thing for three years
now.
That's incredible.
I've been thinking about my NewYear's resolution for
podcasting and I think reallyBoles this year.
I really want to listen to ourproducer when he tells me stuff.
Erich Bolz (01:05):
I think that should be perfect, because I don't plan
on ever listening to theproducer, so we should cancel
each other out and just maintainthat mediocre status quo that
has been the co-host's voice forOutliers in Education.
Eric Price (01:15):
I think that would just be perfect.
Hey, we're all trying to getbetter in some way, especially
this time of the year, but ofcourse that's our mission all
year long here at Outliers inEducation To uncover and share
the strategies, research andbest practices that help
educators reach beyond thestatus quo for their kids the
things that truly make OutliersOutliers.
We've had the good fortune tospeak with some of the smartest,
(01:37):
most innovative and caringeducators I've encountered over
these past three years, andtoday it's no different.
Everydayprincipalcom is anonline platform that shares many
of the same goals we have hereat Outliers in Education
spreading the word and toolsthat educators need to learn,
grow and improve.
Andre Wicks is the chief editorfor EverydayPrincipalcom.
(01:58):
He is also an author, aconsultant and a principal
himself with the Spokane PublicSchools.
Andre, welcome to the show.
Andre Wicks (02:07):
Thank you for that kind introduction.
Caring, smartest and mostinnovative those are my New
Year's resolutions.
Eric Price (02:14):
Well, that's good.
Somebody needs to hit that ball.
You've come to the right place.
I think Bulls and I had threestrikes on that one.
Hey, if you were going to giveme an elevator pitch for
EverydayPrincipalcom, what wouldyou say?
That it is and that it standsfor.
Andre Wicks (02:30):
The heart and the inspiration of the blog really
is to inform, influence andinspire.
That's kind of our tagline.
I have to make things simplefor myself.
So the elevator speech, themantra, the tagline, the mission
, the vision, all have to bekind of tied together.
And so when I think about theconception of EverydayPrincipal,
(02:53):
that's really what it boilsdown to.
You is just networking,crowdsourcing, really trying to
take advantage of the collectiveexperience of all the leaders
we have across the country andthe globe.
Erich Bolz (03:05):
Well, that's fantastic, and we know, because
EP and I are in the field offair amount we're both actually
recovering public educatorsourselves.
As a current principal, you'relikely overloaded with the
demands of the job, so whatcaused you to say, gosh, am I
spare time?
I'm going to take on one morething, just the additional work
of maintaining this dynamicwebsite with all these great
(03:26):
authors, everydayprincipalcom,and what motivates you to keep
it going?
Andre Wicks (03:30):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think that for me, I'vealways had a leadership spirit
about me.
I think I've always had kind ofan entrepreneurial spirit about
me as well, and over the courseof the 28 years that I've spent
in K-12, ed, I've had theopportunity to just do and try a
(03:52):
lot of different things.
A lot of the people thatinspire me are always talking
about the continuous developmentof leadership.
It's not like you go to thistraining or you read this book
or you visit this website andyou have accumulated all of the
(04:13):
acumen that you're going to needto be the best leader that you
can possibly be.
It's really this ongoingpursuit of continuous
improvement.
For me, that comes by way oflistening and watching and
observing, but then also likedoing, you know, trying some of
(04:33):
these things, and so the, theeveryday principle, honestly,
has been a vision of mine for acouple years, and it just got to
a point, quite literally, thatI just said I have to like stop,
stop talking about it, I justhave to do it.
So, so that's what I did overspring break last year.
(04:57):
I kind of I drafted out my, mybusiness plan and sketched out
my first year, that of thethings that I would like to try
to accomplish with everydayprinciple and and set my my
launch date for early July andit happened.
(05:18):
So I guess that's how it works.
Sometimes you just have to putthings in motion and throw stuff
out on the table and see.
Eric Price (05:26):
See how it happens, see how it looks imagine that if
we could stop talking and dostuff in K-12, wouldn't that be?
Wouldn't that be awesome?
When you take a look at whatyou experience on everyday
principlecom and in yourposition you have a story that
kind of amplifies some of theneeds that you kind of are
seeing consistently in thatprinciple position yeah, yeah, I
(05:49):
think that reoccurringly.
Andre Wicks (05:51):
Just you know folks that are looking for tips,
tricks, strategies in forleadership in general and you
know the the world is the oysteris your oyster when it comes to
.
When it comes to that, there'sall sorts of things.
So we have some of our authorshave written on building strong
(06:13):
relationships with students,really focusing on culture.
One of our authors has reallyemphasized a healthy work-life
balance.
Most recently we've had myselfand a couple other authors have
written about commitments thatit will take to you improve
(06:34):
student learning in the longterm, not just getting quick
results to pad stats or to makeyour data look better.
What internal commitments, whatsystems, what frameworks do you
need to have in place?
What mindsets do you need tohave in place to make those
systems and frameworks work sothat you can increase student
(06:56):
learning?
So looking at PLCs professionallearning communities is another
thing that we're really workinghard on at Pepperzac Middle
School.
We're on the principle.
We're looking at things likeequitable grading practices.
What does it really look like?
What does it really mean when astudent earns an ABCD?
(07:18):
What does it mean when astudent is failing?
Rick DeFour was the one thatsaid the things that get
monitored, get done.
That is the truth.
It was so many things that youcould be focusing on or
attending to.
You have to be thoughtful andyou have to prioritize.
What are the foundationalbuilding blocks of a healthy,
(07:43):
thriving, productive school?
Those are some of the thingsthat we're working on as well.
Eric Price (07:48):
Well, it's not every day that we get to have a
principle of this caliber on theshow.
Get it Every day principleright there.
See that, Stay with us andwe'll be right back with more
from Andre Wick right here onOutliers in Education.
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Eric Price (09:05):
Hey everybody, thanks for sticking around.
We're kicking off the new yearwith principal Andre Wick,
editor-in-chief of the onlineplatform EverydayPrincipalcom.
Erich Bolz (09:14):
So, Andre, tell me a little bit about I opened two
schools in my career.
So tell us this one story, ifnot more, that people just
wouldn't believe about what it'slike to open a school.
Andre Wicks (09:27):
In my 28 years this has been the most exciting, the
most rewarding experience I'veever had.
Some of the things with openinga school though it's, like you
know, from an outsider lookingin, I think you just kind of
assume that everything isawesome and not everything is
awesome.
So when we were first moving in, this was unbelievable.
(09:50):
We had a staff retreat plannedthe few days before school
started and so we started themorning, the half day, and then
we came up to the school to workso that teachers could move in
and stuff.
And on the second day of ourretreat, when we left the
retreat and came up to theschool, we walked in to 88
pallets of curriculum, peequipment, uniforms, I mean you
(10:17):
name it seriously all of ouroffice supplies.
I mean literally we're threeand a half months in and we're
still unpacking, we're stillgetting stuff, yeah.
So lots of unpacking, lots ofweekend time.
Eric Price (10:34):
So, andre, there's probably a lot of principles out
there listening, and so whatadvice would you give to someone
that's coming in and sitting inyour chair, I think?
Andre Wicks (10:44):
Pace.
Uh, you know not being too muchin a hurry to prove anything.
The transition into a brand newmiddle school is.
It's emotional, you know it'staxing both physically, mentally
and emotionally.
And if you're trying to do toomuch too fast without you know
really taking that intoconsideration, the excitement of
(11:08):
opening a new building quicklyturns to fatigue, resentment.
You know people wishing maybethey hadn't made the choice that
they made.
Eric Price (11:17):
Why do you think that our propensity as leaders
is to try to go faster?
Andre Wicks (11:21):
Why do you think that I think it's just the
hustle and bustle of life.
I think that innately there areoutside pressures.
I mean there's always noise,right, If you choose to listen
to all the noise, if you chooseto listen to all of the wants
and needs and asks andcomplaints, it creates that
pressure.
So I think that you just haveto have, you have to have spent
(11:44):
some time ahead of time planningfor your pace, what you're
going to tolerate and whatyou're not.
Erich Bolz (11:50):
Andre, what would you tell a colleague?
Why should they get on, checkout your site and consume
content on the everydayprinciple?
Andre Wicks (11:57):
For me, the value that I was really striving for
with the literature we provideon everyday principle is that
it's current, it's relevant,it's like what's literally
happening right now, and sothat's why I really wanted to
seek principles and leaders thatare in the field in the moment
right, and so I know that that'sa big sacrifice to ask
(12:21):
principles, assistant principles, superintendents that have been
principles, people that workwith principles to take the time
while they're serving in therole.
I think that's the added valuethat everyday principle brings
is that these are people thatare telling their own stories.
Erich Bolz (12:38):
So, in that regard, whether it's feedback from folks
who are consuming the everydayprinciple or your principal
colleagues where you work inDistrict 81 in Spokane,
washington, what do you thinkare the big themes that cause
your peers to wake up at threein the morning?
Andre Wicks (12:53):
Maybe it's just like the moral imperative my
middle school is.
I think we have one of thelowest free and reduced lunch
rates in the district, but we'restill between 35 and 40 percent
.
But there are students thatjust are experiencing and living
in complex trauma.
It's hard not to take your workpersonal when you're in the
(13:14):
field of education becauseyou're in the people business.
For me, some of the things thatwake me up in the middle of the
night are just what, what kidsneed that they're not getting.
Eric Price (13:26):
And Andre, if you're going to equip, if you were in
charge of the principalequipment room and you're going
to say, hey, here's what, here'swhat we really need out there,
what would you say?
Boy, we really need this in theprincipal ship right now, with
some structures, tools, thoughts.
Andre Wicks (13:43):
Oh, you know what?
I think that's one of thethings that we need, and this
isn't to assume that it's notthere or not deep down somewhere
, but we need courageousprinciples.
When you're in big systems,small systems really it doesn't
matter.
We talked to just a few momentsago about the pressures of
(14:07):
being a principal, and if youlet that get to you, it can
really cause you to second guess, can cause you to just not be
courageous, and I think that weneed that.
You know I kind of joke thatK12 education is notorious for
tolerating unprofessionalism and, just you know, making making
(14:27):
choices and doing things thataren't necessarily in the best
interest of kids, and we needcourageous leaders to stand up
and say that's, that's not okay.
You know, we're not going totolerate that piggybacking on
that theme of courageousprinciples.
Erich Bolz (14:42):
What does that look like, especially in a larger
system, not asking you to outyour own system.
So you know, could be Kennewick, could be Richland, could be
Pasco, could be, could be anysystem anywhere in the United
States over 10,000 students,where you've got multiple
principles pushing back on thesystem in a courageous way as a
principal and still maintainingyour ability to keep your job
(15:04):
and garner your paycheck.
What does that look like?
How does that?
How does a courageous principalwalk that line?
Andre Wicks (15:09):
I can speak for myself only and honestly would
say that I have not always beenas courageous as I could be.
I think that you know, withexperience and time, and just
really becoming aware of who Iam as a leader, being confident
in who I am as a leader, hasallowed me to be more courageous
(15:33):
.
I think being a great listener,a great observer, allows you to
gain the perspective of lots ofstakeholders and constituents.
I think that what that does isallows you to be confident in
making informed decisions, beingintentional about building
(15:53):
relationships with you know,your school directors, building
relationships with yoursuperintendent, building really,
really great relationships withyour staff, students and
families.
You know, when you have astrong school community, I think
that that really helps to builda strong foundation of
(16:13):
courageous leadership that youcan push back on things that
aren't serving students' bestinterest.
Eric Price (16:21):
That's what I think really wise, andre.
I think one of the things thatis very difficult, or we need
courage to, is to listen, askquestions and to listen to.
You know our constituents.
So, speaking of listening more.
It is the new year coming up.
Do you have any resolutions,either for yourself on
everydayprinciplecom or foryourself as a principal?
(16:43):
What's happening this comingyear, andre?
Andre Wicks (16:46):
Well, for Pepperzac Middle School, we opened with
just six and seventh grade, sonext year we'll be adding
another class of students, I'llbe adding another eight to ten
staff, and so one of the thingsthat we really committed to,
that we've been able to maintainthus far, is a culture of
(17:09):
feedback.
We really believe that nosystem or team can maximize
their potential without feedback, and so, for us, the system,
the culture of feedback allowsus to kind of test ourselves,
and so, looking ahead to nextyear, we wanna continue to test
our theories and our practices.
Eric Price (17:30):
Andre, this is the time of the show that we bring
in Dr Bowles and his amazingsummarization skills.
Bowles, take it away my man.
Erich Bolz (17:40):
Well, I just wanna say thank you for the academic
promotion number one.
Apparently, now that you'reworking at the university level,
ep, you have the ability toconvey honorary doctorates.
It is an honorarium and I wouldsay it's about time.
Yeah, exactly, so, really,starting from the top, hard to
argue with the mission of theeveryday principle, which is to
(18:00):
inform, influence and inspire.
Impress that.
Andre is one of those uniqueindividuals who stopped talking
about it and just decided to doit, but he started with a plan.
Imagine what would happen if weall started with a well-written
business plan.
I don't know that we'd all bethis successful, but inside of
about six months he's amassed areadership of 50,000 readers.
(18:21):
The goal of the everydayprinciple again, is that super
noble, informed, influenced,inspire, really leading towards
the kind of connection I madewas collective principle
efficacy.
So we can learn a lot from eachother.
We know that one of the biggestimpacts we can have is
fostering a climate andbuildings that leads to great
teacher collective efficacy.
(18:42):
But maybe our best bet to dothis in the isolated position
that's the principle is to reachout and learn from each other.
The link I really made to theOutlier Study, especially given
the mission of everydayprinciple is lifelong learning.
One of our commoncharacteristics that we saw
across these incredible schoolsin Washington state was folks
who really committed to lifelonglearning and loved what Andre
(19:04):
said about pace.
I think anything that we can doto just slow things down at this
point is better for everybody.
We're all overloaded.
Our culture lends itself tothat.
We hear over and over againthat educators are frazzled.
So that calm leadership, Ithink, is critically important
and never more important than ata new school.
(19:25):
Haven't done that thing twice.
People really do hit a wallabout this time of year because
it's an incredible amount ofenergy to open a brand new
institution on everyone's behalf.
What keeps Andre up?
Kids in trauma?
That might sound familiar.
We've had an awful lot ofguests on Outliers in Education
really speaking towards wherekids are at contemporary in
(19:47):
mental health and with trauma.
You might want to check outwhat Jim Spore later and Dr
Corey Callahar, superintendentof Wenatchee School District,
have to say abouttrauma-informed practice in
earlier episodes of Outliers inEducation.
Good principles are greatlisteners.
They take feedback from allconstituents and hey, that's
what we do at CEE.
We really help measure whereconstituents are at and their
(20:09):
perceptions around school.
So Andre's management bywalking around practices David
Packard would be proud of Andretoday for mentioning that
approach is something that'sreal congruent with the work
that we do.
And then I think the piece thatcomes through is having the
courage to take the time tobuild great relationships.
(20:29):
We know that schools are allabout the relationships.
Our most effective schools haveincredibly strong cultures, by
the way.
We can help you measure andbuilding those courageous
relationships takesvulnerability, and we hear this
from many of our great guests.
So, in summary, I'd like tothank Andre so much for what he
shared and really do agree it'sall about the relationships, and
(20:53):
the ability for Andre to usehis platform to inform,
influence and inspire Makes himan absolutely outstanding guest
here on Outliers in Education.
Eric Price (21:00):
Andre, it sounds like you need some more things
to do.
Juggle some more balls.
Apparently, you wrote a book in21.
What is standing in the way thejourney of becoming your best
self?
Is that a book for educators?
Andre Wicks (21:12):
Absolutely.
That was another book actuallyinspired by other educators.
I was actually giving a keynoteto educators and essentially
it's just kind of going back tothat idea of stop talking and
just doing.
What's standing in the way is abook about getting out of your
own way to enjoy the things thatyou've always wanted in life.
Eric Price (21:30):
And where can they find that book, Andre?
Andre Wicks (21:32):
On.
Eric Price (21:32):
Amazon, all right, and you can check out other
blogs and resources available ateverydayprinciplecom.
Andre, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for being on the show,my friend.
Thank you, it's been mypleasure.
Erich Bolz (21:45):
And happy New Year to all of you who are listening
in today.
You can find us anywhere youlisten to your favorite podcast
or visit us online ateffectivenessorg.
Until next time.
This has been Outliers inEducation, and that's a wrap
music playing].
Ad VO (22:00):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive changein your school or district, take
a moment to visit CEE, theCenter for Educational
Effectiveness, ateffectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools Effectivenessorg.
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