December 1, 2023 • 33 mins
The U.S. Surgeon General has officially declared loneliness a national epidemic, one that is more deadly than smoking, obesity and addiction. It is now estimated that living with a lack of social connection increases a person's risk of early death as much as smoking 15 cigarettes a day!
But there's a cure available - connection - and it can be administered in as little as seven seconds. On this episode of Outliers in Education, we speak with a pair of connection crusaders from the non-profit, Only7Seconds. Learn from Executive Director Luke Wall and recently retired superintendent Eric Driessen (from one of the outlier districts identified in CEE's Outliers Study) about how something as simple as a text message can alter the course of a young life and sometimes even save lives.
Established in 2019, Only7Seconds is taking the epidemic of youth loneliness head on through extensive outreach programs, podcasts, video series and their unique Connection Curriculum designed to equip, empower and inspire teachers and students to create the connections that can literally save their lives.
You can find out more about Only7Seconds at:
only7seconds.com
Also from Only7Seconds:
- I Know Lonely Project - Videos, podcasts and written stories
- Connection Curriculum - A toolkit to inspire youth to make intentional connections
"Outliers in Education" is a project of CEE, The Center for Educational Effectiveness. Find out more at effectiveness.org.
Produced by Jamie Howell at Howell at the Moon Productions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ad VO (00:00):
Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the
Center for EducationalEffectiveness.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
To find out more, visiteffectivenessorg.
Eric Price (00:16):
The new epidemic in America is no longer COVID.
According to the US SurgeonGeneral, it's loneliness.
That's especially true andespecially dangerous for our
school age populations.
But according to one group ofconnection crusaders, there's a
remedy out there that can take alittle as seven seconds to
administer.
We'll find out more about thaton today's episode of Outliers
(00:38):
in Education.
Eric Driessen (00:41):
I think we really need to change how we look at
what we do in schools.
Ad VO (00:45):
Everything that we do as educators, it just comes back to
people.
Erich Bolz (00:49):
I love it, even when it's hard, especially when it's
hard.
Eric Driessen (00:52):
Ultimately, this is about what's best for kids.
Eric Price (00:58):
Greetings one and all.
Welcome to another episode ofOutliers in Education.
I'm your co-host, eric Price,podcasting through the holidays
along with my dear friend EricBoles from the Center for
Educational Effectiveness.
You know, bolesy, I'm awfullyglad we're friends because,
according to some of theresearch I've been doing, having
close friends can literally bea lifesaver.
Remember back when the USSurgeon General was all about
(01:21):
trying to get us to understandthe dangers of smoking?
Well, now they've foundsomething even more dangerous to
look out for, and it'sloneliness.
According to an advisory reportthat came out just this May, it
turns out that the lack ofsocial connection is as
dangerous as smoking up to 15cigarettes a day, and the
Surgeon General is calling it afull-blown epidemic of
loneliness and isolation.
(01:42):
What do you think about that?
Erich Bolz (01:43):
Yep, ep, that's a fact and that's why I am now a
half a pack a day smoker.
And in reality we touched onsome of this recently in Season
2, episode 11, with CK Braytalking about brain optimization
.
So it's great to be able tofollow up with a slightly
different context.
A few more statistics to ponderbefore we really get into it.
(02:04):
The rate of loneliness amongyoung adults has been increasing
every year since 1976, to thepoint that today the amount of
time young people spend inperson with friends has dropped
by 70%, and COVID certainlydidn't help things.
Being socially disconnected hasled to greater risk of
cardiovascular disease, dementia, stroke, depression, anxiety
(02:24):
and even premature death.
What's worse, it's doing thatat rates even worse than those
associated with obesity andaddiction, as virtually any
educator working today will tellyou.
It also leaves system reallychallenging days at school.
Lonely kids are often sick,depressed, sometimes angry.
Eric Price (02:39):
Yeah, you know, it's really hard to believe and it's
hard to know what to do aboutit.
Or maybe is it.
Today on the show we have twoguests who are part of a growing
movement aimed at addressingthis epidemic of youth
loneliness and, according tothem, it's not necessarily as
hard a problem to solve as youmight think.
In fact, they believe you canhave a real impact in as little
(03:00):
as seven seconds.
Hence the name of theirnonprofit, only Seven Seconds,
an organization that has beentaking aim at this lack of
connection since 2019.
We're pleased to have with usLuke Wall, executive director of
Only Seven Seconds, and withhim former superintendent Eric
Dresen from the Brewster SchoolDistrict, one of the districts
that rose to the top of ourstudy in outlier schools across
(03:22):
the state of Washington.
Luke and Eric, welcome to theshow, thank you.
Thanks for having us.
Hey, luke, let's start with you.
Could you kind of just fill usin a little bit on the name Only
Seven Seconds and what thatrefers to?
Luke Wall (03:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you again for having ustoday.
I'm super excited to be here.
The quick story of Only SevenSeconds and where it came from
was I've got a.
I call him my little brother.
He's actually six foot five.
He towers above me.
He's 11 years younger than I amand when he was in high school
he experienced some prettysevere social isolation,
(03:53):
actually before COVID hit, andthat social isolation led to
loneliness.
And then that loneliness led toa slew of mental health things
over the course of a reallyshort timeframe, and it was
during that time that he was apopular kid and it wasn't that
kids didn't care about it, itwas just that they simply forgot
.
It was out of sight, out ofmind.
It was the fact that kids spendfive hours a day on social
(04:14):
media but they don't put downtheir phone and talk to their
friend.
And because of that, four weeksin, my mom gets upset, as any
good mom does, and she goes.
How long would it take for oneof your friends to send a text
that says I care about you, youmatter to me?
To dial his phone number hits,and if that had happened at any
time during those five weeks, itwould have really stopped or at
least been a huge deterrent inthe mental health spiral he
(04:36):
experienced.
So she went out to her phone,typed out I care about you on
her phone, took her roughlyseven seconds and the name of
the organization and idea wasborn.
Erich Bolz (04:46):
That's fantastic and also really interested in how
you got involved.
Mr Eric Driesen and those ofyou who are loyal podcast
listeners will recognize that MrDriesen is a two time now
podcaster on outliers ineducation rose to fame here on
episode four with Brewster,building Bridges to Family and
Community.
Eric Driessen (05:06):
You know I got involved a little bit when I was
as a superintendent, you know,looking for something to help
our kids, our students, with SELfound that most of them were
kind of a six to eight weekprogram and then it kind of just
faded away, and so that wasreal frustrating for me.
Through that SEL programwhatever one it is, you know,
(05:31):
the awareness level of otherpeople carrying things like that
was at a pretty high level.
But just shortly after thoseunits were done then people kind
of headed back into defaultmode, and so then Luke and I
started meeting and talking andtalking about only seven seconds
, and so I really started seeingwhere this was a way to keep
(05:56):
that awareness level, thatconnection level, at a higher
level throughout the year.
And so, bench, I retired as aresult of that.
It gave me some more time tokind of help support Lou and the
work that he's doing.
Eric Price (06:11):
How are you seeing this epidemic of loneliness play
out in schools, and how do weeven begin to address that?
Luke Wall (06:18):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I'll give a little context here.
We do a lot of work in schools,primarily in here in Norris and
for Washington.
We started out as an awarenesscampaign, primarily for everyone
and anyone.
We talk about loneliness and ithits every single person.
As we've started to refine thework that we do, we're really
(06:38):
starting to work exclusivelywith youth.
Over the last couple of yearsI've gotten to spend a lot of
time in school assemblies.
I've gotten to spend a lot oftime in individual classrooms,
working with teachers, workingwith students.
It comes as no surprise, I think, to probably almost anyone
listening, especially on theback of COVID, that loneliness,
(07:00):
no matter what someone isexperiencing, whether it is lack
of resources, whether it islack of access to care, whether
they're experiencing grief orloss or whether they're just
experiencing a challenging daythat loneliness intertwines with
every aspect of what peopleexperience, especially our kids.
The one anecdote I'll give hereis recently we've been doing
(07:21):
some data results live.
While we're doing schoolassemblies the most recent one
we did we have students say inthe last week how lonely have
you felt?
On a scale of one to 10?
10 being, I have felt lonelyalmost every moment that I've
been awake the last couple ofassemblies that we've done that
(07:42):
number is over 20% that are atthat level of 10.
Eric Price (07:45):
That are at 10s.
Luke Wall (07:46):
That are at 10s, to give some context.
Eric Price (07:49):
What level are these assemblies, these high school,
middle school?
Luke Wall (07:52):
Middle school and high school.
Eric Price (07:54):
Oh wow, Holy smokes.
Luke Wall (07:56):
That's crazy how you begin to address it.
There's so many factors, right,because loneliness again
intertwines with so manydifferent things.
But for us, one of the thingsthat we do is, first of all, it
starts with every single persontaking very small acts.
It is the idea that sevenseconds truly can, at least if
it's a meaningful and anintentional act, that those can
(08:19):
have really profound rippleeffects.
We've had stories of itchanging someone's day to the
extent of literally savingsomeone's life.
It starts there and then wecontinue to provide ongoing
programming.
That's really more of buildingskill sets for students and
youth in classroom or youthprogram settings.
Eric Price (08:37):
Yeah, okay, eric, you want to take a pop at that.
Eric Driessen (08:40):
The things that I'm seeing in schools really
echo what Luke has.
But one of the things that Ithink kind of resonates with me
is the connection piece.
That connection providesrelationships.
Kids develop relationships withkids that they don't
necessarily spend a lot of timewith right they're a group of
(09:02):
friends or whatever the casemight be.
So now all of a sudden theserelationships have grown much
wider and the conversations orkids are having with the
curriculum is a safe environment.
So kids are feeling a lot moresafe to have conversations that
cause deeper relationships andso pretty soon you see a culture
(09:24):
almost building within theschool of caring, a more caring
and connected group of students.
So only seven seconds.
We have a fantastic curriculum.
It's called the connectioncurriculum.
So we have that, for it's notjust for schools but it works
really well for schools.
But through that this buildsmore relationships and
(09:49):
connections.
So then kids feel a little morecomfortable reaching out if
they don't have somebody.
Luke Wall (09:56):
You mentioned the US surgeon general at the top of
the show, and he's been on anumber of podcasts.
He's going on speaking toursright now and he's oftentimes
asked what are some of thethings that we can do to address
this, and he most recently saidthere isn't just one policy
that's going to change this atan individual level.
If there's one thing that I canencourage you to do today is to
(10:17):
smile at a stranger.
Right, that takes less thanseven seconds and it seems so
small, but the act of receivinga smile from a stranger on the
street, how that changes thethings that are going on in your
brain, right, that actuallytriggers that you feel a little
bit more connected to justsociety at large and you feel a
little bit less alone in whatyou go through, right, and so it
is that idea that such simplelittle things can sometimes be
(10:41):
that piece that can changesomeone's day or what they're
experiencing.
Eric Price (10:44):
So what those brain scientists are saying?
It's not creeping people out,it's actually making them feel.
Luke Wall (10:50):
Yes, exactly, exactly .
Erich Bolz (10:53):
Why don't you tell us a little bit about your
curriculum?
Luke Wall (10:55):
Yeah, I'd be happy to .
So the connection curriculumit's a really academic term for
what it is.
It's a youth program thatindividuals as teachers,
counselors, advisors, anyoneworking with youth can use,
targeted at sixth or twelfthgrade.
We've been in the process ofdeveloping it for a number of
years.
We have some internal long timeeducators that have been
(11:17):
helping to develop it.
We have a scientific advisoryboard that includes mental
health professionals, publichealth professionals that work
really specifically in the spaceof social health, and they have
helped develop this product, ifyou want to call it that.
But it's really a program thatcan be used over the course of
up to 30 lessons.
(11:38):
It has three different parts toit.
Each of those parts arecentered around three separate
things, the first one beingdeveloping your own skill sets
as students, as youth, some ofthose just very basic social,
emotional skill sets.
The second one is groundedaround empathy.
We know that one of the biggestkeys to relationship, the
(11:58):
biggest keys to the meaningfulconnection, is empathy with
others.
And then the third one isactivity based, and that's
really the act of living outthat action in your community,
whether that's in the school,whether that's a community at
large that might be individualsand those change every single
time, but each of those threedifferent types of lessons
(12:19):
rotate, they repeat all with theidea of building a skill set
throughout the year and, as toEric mentioned earlier that it
really keeps that engagementlevel at a very high level
throughout the entire schoolyear, where you have kids
interacting at a level of depththat you find a place of
belonging at the school thatyou're involved in.
Eric Price (12:40):
So one of these, the I Know Lonely project.
What tell us a little bit aboutthat?
Luke Wall (12:45):
Yeah, that's really the public version of the
connection curriculum, becausewe know that this, in fact, with
the very first pilot programthat we ever ran with our
connection curriculum, it cameback about 75% of students felt
less lonely having gone throughit.
Funny enough, it was about 80to 85% of teachers and
administrators felt like theywere more connected with each
(13:08):
other, or their own schooldistrict.
So, funny enough, it seemed likeadults were actually being
impacted at a higher level, andmy guess is right is that to do
it well, you have to learn itwell for yourself, right?
And so they really had to leaninto it.
And so we knew that what we'reproviding, while it's really
targeted at youth, it isrelevant for every age group,
(13:29):
and so the I Know Lonely projectis really that public version
of that.
So we produced the stories thatare part of our empathy lessons
.
Those stories are a publicresource, both on podcast and
both on video format.
Eric Price (13:41):
Now don't go wandering off on your lonesome,
because we promise to be rightback in about 60 seconds with
more from our friends at only 7seconds, right here on Outliers
in Education.
Ad VO (14:26):
The final question.
Eric Price (14:56):
Welcome back everyone.
Today we're talking about theepidemic of student loneliness,
with Executive Director LukeWall and former Superintendent
Eric Driessen from the Nonprofitonly 7 seconds.
I wonder about our educators inthis equation of loneliness,
with COVID and not through COVID?
But do you see adults alsoexperiencing, our teachers
(15:18):
experiencing this loneliness,and how do you see that?
Eric Driessen (15:21):
Such a true statement, Eric.
I mean, adults are goingthrough the very same things and
it's difficult for them to findpeople to reach for, and most
of them feel like you know, ifI'm not okay emotionally, there
must be something wrong with me,you know.
So they internalize that stuffand it just gets worse and worse
.
Eric Price (15:41):
Is there shame associated with loneliness?
Eric Driessen (15:44):
I don't know, oh yes, Okay, Guilt, shame and
guilt both you bet.
So, anyway, this program, itworks for adults as well as it
does kids, and I think Lukereally hit it when he said you
know the fact that if you haveeducators or adults teaching the
lessons and the lessons areonly like 30 minute lessons,
(16:05):
they're really short then youknow they're internalizing that
and using it.
And if you have, across yourschool or your district or
whatever, you have all theadults doing that, then once
again, you're building strongerrelationships and connections
among your adults as well asyour kids.
Luke Wall (16:23):
Yeah, the statistics say that youth are the loneliest
demographic.
Right Across the board, 80% ofyouth feel lonely within the
last six months or regularly.
What they determine, but, thatbeing said, there isn't one
demographic or group adults onup that is below 50%.
It's a regular human occurrence.
It's something that, from thedawn of time, has been a driving
(16:45):
mechanism.
Right, that's how we started toadvance civilization out of the
need for supporting each otherand within that at the same time
, the reason that we are focusedreally exclusively on youth is
we want to get as far upstreamas we possibly can and so
delivering results to youth.
Even I have an eight-year-oldson myself and I'm starting to
(17:06):
do some of this work with him.
And if we're able to train andequip people at that age, they
don't have the problems that wemight at our own ages.
Right now on this podcast,right, I wish so much that, and
I had great family and parentsand teaching and upbringing, and
yet there's so many soft skillsets that would have been so
much more helpful to my ownrelationships with family and
(17:28):
friends that I wish I wasn'thaving to piecemeal together
when I got to my 20s and feltlonely.
And so how much better can wetrain and equip kids today to
have those skill sets at ayounger and younger age?
Erich Bolz (17:38):
Well, congratulations to you, Luke,
for starting to figure thatstuff out in your 20s.
Eric Price (17:46):
We are late learners .
Eric Driessen (17:47):
Exactly right.
Erich Bolz (17:50):
Can either one or both of you share some success
stories, some testimonials thatyou've heard that really point
to the impact that you're making?
Luke Wall (17:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and I just have so many that come
to top of mind.
The first one I'll just mention.
I was recently at a schoolassembly and talking to a
teacher and we had just done ateacher training.
The previous two weeks we doprofessional development with
teachers as they start toonboard.
This teacher comes up to me twoweeks after I'd seen him the
first time and he says hey, Iwant you to know that I was
(18:20):
reminded after your lastpresentation to reach out to a
friend that I knew wasstruggling and in that I reached
out to him and he was in themiddle of attempting to take his
own life.
Wow, and we have since gottenhim help needed and if it wasn't
for hearing your message, hewould probably not be here today
.
Right, and that's the mostextreme example.
(18:43):
I still am like recovering fromhearing that a couple of weeks
ago, because there's no greateroutcome.
And yet, at the same time, Ialso have stories where I had a
16-year-old girl come up to me afew weeks back in a similar
situation as far as she had afamily member that took their
own life recently and she wasjust struggling to cope with the
(19:05):
loneliness she was feeling fromthat void and she felt like she
was the only person in theworld that was feeling lonely
and that no one else felt likeit.
And then she saw that half ofthe school district around her,
all the other kids around her,were feeling lonely as well.
She goes.
I realize I'm not the only onethat has been feeling this way
and, even though my circumstancemight be different, I realized
(19:26):
that it's okay for me to open upto some of my peers about what
I'm feeling right now.
Right and like.
Those are the things that weknow, like that's where a change
starts to happen.
Erich Bolz (19:36):
Wow, yeah, it starts with awareness.
Eric Price (19:38):
This loneliness.
We talked about it going backhistorically, right, I mean.
I think about you know Beatles,you know one is the loneliest
number, and so my question isyou know how far back is this?
Is this getting worse?
Luke Wall (19:49):
Yeah, I will say it's been something that's been an
issue since the dawn of time.
To some extent, right, but astechnology has advanced it's
gotten worse and worse.
Robert Putnam put out a book Ibelieve it was in the late 90s
called Bowling Alone, and inthat book he talks about the
breakdown of the social fabricof community groups.
(20:11):
We talk about the breakdown ofeverything from knitting clubs
to bridge clubs to you name it.
And in the social fabric thatstarted to really fray when
technology entered the space,whether it was radio and then
television funny enough, I reada thesis paper on the beginning
of the air conditioning unit wasthe first instigator, because
(20:34):
people used to sit out on theirfront porch and know who all
their neighbors were, right,yeah.
And then the air conditioningunit all of a sudden everyone
goes inside, right, but you usedto sit on the front porch for
your cool air, wow, yeah.
And so that technology TV hasbecome a very individualized
entertainment.
Entertainment used to be agroup activity, right, and so
now that entertainment sits atour hand, at a moment's notice,
(20:56):
if we get bored with theconversation, we can look away
from that conversation and lookdown at our phone.
And so, absolutely, socialmedia plays a huge role, not
especially with youth, Imentioned it earlier, but five
hours a day is what youth spendon their phone or on social
media, not just their phone,five hours a day on social media
and that is a driving drivingforce towards the loneliness
(21:17):
that you feel for a number ofreasons, and the surgeon general
put out a separate advisoryspecifically around that
epidemic and building awarenessaround that, and they really are
two pieces that play togetherin a significant way.
Erich Bolz (21:31):
I love the Robert Putt and reference.
More to come on that.
Eric Price (21:34):
Well, when I was listening to Luke's response, he
was talking about bowling alone, and I was thinking about
kingpin in terms of my bowlingreferences.
So sorry, luke, you're wayahead of me there.
Erich Bolz (21:45):
What barriers are, if any, are you seeing in terms
of being able to implement thismore widely across schools?
Luke Wall (21:51):
Oh man, the main thing I will say is there is
pending the school.
Every school district is verydifferent, but there is a lot of
red tape and bureaucracy thatis challenging at different
levels, whether that's just thesheer number of decision makers
as well.
As I just talked to an educatortoday that is going to start
doing some of our curriculum,but it requires training and
(22:14):
sharing with parents what SELeven means.
Right, we're not evenofficially an SEL program, but
there's now this stigmaassociated with an acronym,
right, and so the polarizationjust of a lot of different
things across the board is anissue within school districts,
but then parents and in theschool boards, and you name it.
(22:35):
That plays a pretty significantrole in our ability to have an
impact on kids.
Erich Bolz (22:40):
Related question.
I think this will resonate withboth of you.
As I know, Brewster has been along time consumer of our EES
surveys at CEE, which is oureducational effectiveness survey
, and Luke and I have had acouple of occasions to connect
on what we provide in terms ofscreening.
What synergies do you see inour work with your work as
you're thinking about it, Luke,and with your direct experience
(23:02):
with our products, Eric?
Eric Driessen (23:03):
Well, first, I think the work that you guys do
at CEE is outstanding, whetherit be academic or community
culture data that we were ableto receive and other schools
receive is really helpful infinding gaps, figuring out
strategic planning, supportingwhere the strengths and the
(23:25):
weaknesses are, and I'll justpiggyback on that.
Luke Wall (23:28):
I'm super excited for ways that we can work together
and continue to work together.
We're an emerging program andwith that, one of the things
that's really important for usboth the funders and to school
districts that are interested inour work is does it work and
what does it work doing?
And we have some of thatpreliminary evidence.
But to have a third party thatis able to help drive some of
(23:51):
that that shows this schooldistrict started using only
seven seconds and now theirstudents are finding belonging
in more meaningful ways, that isreally powerful, and so I'm
excited to continue to pursuethat and work together on that,
because that's a prettysignificant synergy and benefit
to us.
And then, likewise, for us tonot have to necessarily recreate
(24:11):
the wheel when it comes tosurveys.
But, by the way, if school ABC,you want to start working with
us here are you some of CEE'ssurveying that you haven't done
yet as well?
Because that's a benefit tothem beyond just what we're
providing to.
Erich Bolz (24:27):
Well, we are excited about that as well, and it'll
be really interesting to see howthis matures, eric, you had
something to add.
Eric Driessen (24:32):
I was just going to say.
One of the other things CEEdoes is it brings data from
other school districts.
Don't reinvent the wheel.
Let's take a look at this stuff.
Eric Price (24:42):
In the schools, in the classrooms in education K-12
, are we asking students aboutare you experiencing loneliness?
Are we having thoseconversations with them about
loneliness?
Eric Driessen (24:51):
I think it varies , just like anything else right,
the school districts, the ages,things like that.
But to talk to kids in aclassroom setting, there's a lot
of kids the kids that maybeneed this the most aren't going
to speak up and so they don'treally get the opportunity to be
heard, even though you'rehaving those conversations.
And that's one of the bestthings I think about the
(25:15):
connection curriculum is itcreates a way to do that and
it's done in small groups.
I think that's an effective wayto allow kids to be able to
reach out.
Luke Wall (25:26):
Because of the US Surgeon General's advisory,
there is a much greater emphasisjust across the US around this.
So more and more I'm starting tohear both teachers and parents
engage around the conversationand specifically talking about
loneliness and connection.
I think, tangentially though,there's been an ongoing
conversation about belonging,which I know, as part of the
(25:47):
survey that I see theadministers, is really the
language of belonging.
So I think that there's been anongoing conversation, but
necessarily calling out thelanguage of loneliness is maybe.
There's certainly stigmaattached and loneliness is very
subjective, and so even when weask the question in those
assemblies, having felt lonely,we give a precursor to that of
(26:10):
here's six different things thatloneliness may feel like, and
those things are like I feellike I don't belong, I feel like
I don't have someone I can turnto in a time of need.
I feel like and we list thosethings out that it may feel like
versus here's the definition ofloneliness, because there are
so many pieces to that and itgets complicated to talk about,
especially when there is thestigma that oh, if I'm lonely
(26:33):
then something must be wrongwith me, like Eric alluded to
earlier.
Eric Price (26:37):
Yeah, and I think if our teachers are feeling lonely
and they're shame associatedwith it, I think this must be a
really difficult thing to handlein a classroom.
So you released a new strategicplan for your organization
recently.
Where are you headed next?
Luke Wall (26:53):
with your work For the last few years.
We've really been an awarenesscampaign and so with that we
started because this lonelinessconversation is for everyone.
We started fielding calls fromveteran affairs departments to
lawyer wellness groups and youname it, and it's been really
fun.
Erich Bolz (27:12):
I was going to say there's a joke in there
somewhere.
Luke Wall (27:16):
There it is, you know .
But lawyers have one of thehighest rates of suicide of any
vocation in the world Wow Right,highest rates of mental health
admittances into institutions,and so there's a drastic need
for so much of what we talkabout and at the same time,
we're a staff of two full-timestaff.
(27:37):
We realize that we can only doso much, and with the new
advisory, there's also a lot ofgreat individuals and
organizations jumping into thisspace.
And so, moving forward, we'regoing to be very specifically
focused on addressing the youthloneliness epidemic, and so for
us, that means really puttingall of our resources not just
some of them, but all of theminto delivering the curriculum
(28:00):
in more places, doing moreassemblies, speaking in public
to youth and about youth,creating youth programs that are
for youth.
That's all a part of wherewe're headed general awareness
campaigns, but directly targetedat youth, because, again,
they're the loneliestdemographic that there is, and
if we're going to change theculture of loneliness being a
(28:21):
pervasive issue that's happenedover the last 100 plus years in
America, it has to start withthe kids of the next generation
that are coming.
Eric Price (28:29):
Wow, there just seems like there's so many
fingers here, like you talkedabout different groups that are
experiencing loneliness, and wehave a ton more questions, but
this is the time in our showthat we're going to move it to
the recap.
Remix master Bullsy, what doyou have for a summarization for
us?
Erich Bolz (28:46):
Well, I just want to point out to our guests, since
we've all gotten to know eachother fairly well, that this
entire process is really abehavior management strategy for
me.
Otherwise, I know this is allabout whether I was listening or
not.
So yeah, starting from the top,really really great origin
story I mean there's nothingmore motivating than taking on
something that becomes yourlife's work as a result of
(29:08):
witnessing what a family memberis going through and really
ultimately wanting to help.
So I really liked what EricDresen had to say about looking
for something to help beyondkind of that canned SEL
curriculum Not that we haveanything against canned SEL
curriculum at CEE, but helpingstudents build these habits,
these self-regulatory habits, isan all day, everything in
(29:29):
school, out of school, 24 hour,seven day a week proposition.
So calling that out, I think,is really important.
The notion that everyone cantake small steps, can take small
acts inside of schools.
I really connected to what GregBenner had to say in episode
six on our show, with strategiesacross school buildings like
warm greetings and two by 10.
And those are small strategiesor steps that schools can take,
(29:51):
but individually it can be assimple as smiling in an
appropriate way at a strangeracross the street.
Only seven seconds provides aframework for being able to take
these small steps to combatloneliness and again developing
SEL skill sets, teaching empathy, just really important things.
You throw a loneliestdemographic.
I did not actually know thatuntil the show today and then in
(30:13):
their works, anecdotally,seeing that sometimes 20% of
students report that they'relonely every waking moment of
their lives is almost too muchto comprehend.
Tech makes it worse.
Luke's given us some requiredreading In addition to Bowling
Alone.
I think one of the mostpowerful books I ever read was
Putnam's book that I believe hewrote in 2016, our Kids, the
(30:33):
American Dream and Crisis Bothreally great books for
understanding the framework ofwhere our youth are at today.
I also learned today, after 25years of being a proud public
educator most of those as aschool administrator that
there's red tape in schooldistricts.
In terms of how this ties toour work at CEE, we really see
(30:57):
only seven seconds as just oneof many tools out there that
have the ability to foster someof the common conditions and
characteristics that we saw inour outliers study, for example,
providing a family atmosphereand caring for each and all
children.
And to close, there really is nosilver bullet.
There's no one singularapproach that's going to help us
(31:19):
with a lot of our kids'concerns.
We heard date superintendentcandidate Reed Sarris talk
recently about 58% of our kidsin the state of Washington are
experiencing full blown anxietynot anxious moments, but anxiety
, and that distinction is notsubtle, and I think our way
through this complicated timefor our youth isn't one simple,
one size fits all approach.
(31:40):
It's really blending the bestof these methods and green
shoots, and so I would say,gentlemen, thank you so much for
coming on our show, gratitudeto you for doing what you're
doing on behalf of our kids whoneed our help.
So so much.
Eric Price (31:52):
Luke and Eric.
Anything that you'd like to addto that fantastic summary.
Luke Wall (31:57):
I want to just say if you're someone that is
experiencing loneliness rightnow and you're feeling it, I
guarantee there's at least goingto be one listener to this
that's in the middle of this andsays I'm one of the people
you're talking about feelinglonely.
We do have a guide on ourwebsite that if you're feeling
lonely.
It's called the I Know LonelyGuide.
There's just some reallypractical tips in there of what
(32:20):
to do if you're experiencingloneliness.
Please go check that out.
Eric Price (32:23):
And Luke your website.
Luke Wall (32:24):
It is only the number seven secondscom.
Perfect, Awesome.
The last thing I'll justmention if you want to learn
more about this work and hearabout it from someone that's far
more of an expert than me, theUS Surgeon General actually put
out a book called Together.
I recommend it to everyone andanyone.
It really dives into some ofthe specifics around what
(32:44):
individuals can do, whatorganizations can do, what even
school districts can do aroundaddressing loneliness as a whole
.
Eric Price (32:52):
So if you're out there looking around at
onlyseventecondscom, you canfind some videos and some
episodes from their podcast.
I Know Lonely as well.
Gentlemen, thank you for reallycaring for and loving our kids.
We need more people like you inthe profession.
So thank you for your work andthank you for being on the show.
Thank you so much for having us.
Erich Bolz (33:11):
And thanks to all of you who are listening in today.
You can find us anywhere youlisten to your favorite podcast
or visit us online ataffectivistorg.
Until next time.
This has been Outliers inEducation.
Eric Price (33:25):
Wrap it baby.
Ad VO (33:27):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive changein your school or district, take
a moment to visit CEE, theCenter for Educational
Effectiveness, ateffectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools C-S-E-S-org.
Outliers in Education is brought to you by CEE, the
Center for EducationalEffectiveness.
Better data, better decisions,better schools.
To find out more, visiteffectivenessorg.
Eric Price (00:16):
The new epidemic in America is no longer COVID.
According to the US SurgeonGeneral, it's loneliness.
That's especially true andespecially dangerous for our
school age populations.
But according to one group ofconnection crusaders, there's a
remedy out there that can take alittle as seven seconds to
administer.
We'll find out more about thaton today's episode of Outliers
(00:38):
in Education.
Eric Driessen (00:41):
I think we really need to change how we look at
what we do in schools.
Ad VO (00:45):
Everything that we do as educators, it just comes back to
people.
Erich Bolz (00:49):
I love it, even when it's hard, especially when it's
hard.
Eric Driessen (00:52):
Ultimately, this is about what's best for kids.
Eric Price (00:58):
Greetings one and all.
Welcome to another episode ofOutliers in Education.
I'm your co-host, eric Price,podcasting through the holidays
along with my dear friend EricBoles from the Center for
Educational Effectiveness.
You know, bolesy, I'm awfullyglad we're friends because,
according to some of theresearch I've been doing, having
close friends can literally bea lifesaver.
Remember back when the USSurgeon General was all about
(01:21):
trying to get us to understandthe dangers of smoking?
Well, now they've foundsomething even more dangerous to
look out for, and it'sloneliness.
According to an advisory reportthat came out just this May, it
turns out that the lack ofsocial connection is as
dangerous as smoking up to 15cigarettes a day, and the
Surgeon General is calling it afull-blown epidemic of
loneliness and isolation.
(01:42):
What do you think about that?
Erich Bolz (01:43):
Yep, ep, that's a fact and that's why I am now a
half a pack a day smoker.
And in reality we touched onsome of this recently in Season
2, episode 11, with CK Braytalking about brain optimization
.
So it's great to be able tofollow up with a slightly
different context.
A few more statistics to ponderbefore we really get into it.
(02:04):
The rate of loneliness amongyoung adults has been increasing
every year since 1976, to thepoint that today the amount of
time young people spend inperson with friends has dropped
by 70%, and COVID certainlydidn't help things.
Being socially disconnected hasled to greater risk of
cardiovascular disease, dementia, stroke, depression, anxiety
(02:24):
and even premature death.
What's worse, it's doing thatat rates even worse than those
associated with obesity andaddiction, as virtually any
educator working today will tellyou.
It also leaves system reallychallenging days at school.
Lonely kids are often sick,depressed, sometimes angry.
Eric Price (02:39):
Yeah, you know, it's really hard to believe and it's
hard to know what to do aboutit.
Or maybe is it.
Today on the show we have twoguests who are part of a growing
movement aimed at addressingthis epidemic of youth
loneliness and, according tothem, it's not necessarily as
hard a problem to solve as youmight think.
In fact, they believe you canhave a real impact in as little
(03:00):
as seven seconds.
Hence the name of theirnonprofit, only Seven Seconds,
an organization that has beentaking aim at this lack of
connection since 2019.
We're pleased to have with usLuke Wall, executive director of
Only Seven Seconds, and withhim former superintendent Eric
Dresen from the Brewster SchoolDistrict, one of the districts
that rose to the top of ourstudy in outlier schools across
(03:22):
the state of Washington.
Luke and Eric, welcome to theshow, thank you.
Thanks for having us.
Hey, luke, let's start with you.
Could you kind of just fill usin a little bit on the name Only
Seven Seconds and what thatrefers to?
Luke Wall (03:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you again for having ustoday.
I'm super excited to be here.
The quick story of Only SevenSeconds and where it came from
was I've got a.
I call him my little brother.
He's actually six foot five.
He towers above me.
He's 11 years younger than I amand when he was in high school
he experienced some prettysevere social isolation,
(03:53):
actually before COVID hit, andthat social isolation led to
loneliness.
And then that loneliness led toa slew of mental health things
over the course of a reallyshort timeframe, and it was
during that time that he was apopular kid and it wasn't that
kids didn't care about it, itwas just that they simply forgot
.
It was out of sight, out ofmind.
It was the fact that kids spendfive hours a day on social
(04:14):
media but they don't put downtheir phone and talk to their
friend.
And because of that, four weeksin, my mom gets upset, as any
good mom does, and she goes.
How long would it take for oneof your friends to send a text
that says I care about you, youmatter to me?
To dial his phone number hits,and if that had happened at any
time during those five weeks, itwould have really stopped or at
least been a huge deterrent inthe mental health spiral he
(04:36):
experienced.
So she went out to her phone,typed out I care about you on
her phone, took her roughlyseven seconds and the name of
the organization and idea wasborn.
Erich Bolz (04:46):
That's fantastic and also really interested in how
you got involved.
Mr Eric Driesen and those ofyou who are loyal podcast
listeners will recognize that MrDriesen is a two time now
podcaster on outliers ineducation rose to fame here on
episode four with Brewster,building Bridges to Family and
Community.
Eric Driessen (05:06):
You know I got involved a little bit when I was
as a superintendent, you know,looking for something to help
our kids, our students, with SELfound that most of them were
kind of a six to eight weekprogram and then it kind of just
faded away, and so that wasreal frustrating for me.
Through that SEL programwhatever one it is, you know,
(05:31):
the awareness level of otherpeople carrying things like that
was at a pretty high level.
But just shortly after thoseunits were done then people kind
of headed back into defaultmode, and so then Luke and I
started meeting and talking andtalking about only seven seconds
, and so I really started seeingwhere this was a way to keep
(05:56):
that awareness level, thatconnection level, at a higher
level throughout the year.
And so, bench, I retired as aresult of that.
It gave me some more time tokind of help support Lou and the
work that he's doing.
Eric Price (06:11):
How are you seeing this epidemic of loneliness play
out in schools, and how do weeven begin to address that?
Luke Wall (06:18):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I'll give a little context here.
We do a lot of work in schools,primarily in here in Norris and
for Washington.
We started out as an awarenesscampaign, primarily for everyone
and anyone.
We talk about loneliness and ithits every single person.
As we've started to refine thework that we do, we're really
(06:38):
starting to work exclusivelywith youth.
Over the last couple of yearsI've gotten to spend a lot of
time in school assemblies.
I've gotten to spend a lot oftime in individual classrooms,
working with teachers, workingwith students.
It comes as no surprise, I think, to probably almost anyone
listening, especially on theback of COVID, that loneliness,
(07:00):
no matter what someone isexperiencing, whether it is lack
of resources, whether it islack of access to care, whether
they're experiencing grief orloss or whether they're just
experiencing a challenging daythat loneliness intertwines with
every aspect of what peopleexperience, especially our kids.
The one anecdote I'll give hereis recently we've been doing
(07:21):
some data results live.
While we're doing schoolassemblies the most recent one
we did we have students say inthe last week how lonely have
you felt?
On a scale of one to 10?
10 being, I have felt lonelyalmost every moment that I've
been awake the last couple ofassemblies that we've done that
(07:42):
number is over 20% that are atthat level of 10.
Eric Price (07:45):
That are at 10s.
Luke Wall (07:46):
That are at 10s, to give some context.
Eric Price (07:49):
What level are these assemblies, these high school,
middle school?
Luke Wall (07:52):
Middle school and high school.
Eric Price (07:54):
Oh wow, Holy smokes.
Luke Wall (07:56):
That's crazy how you begin to address it.
There's so many factors, right,because loneliness again
intertwines with so manydifferent things.
But for us, one of the thingsthat we do is, first of all, it
starts with every single persontaking very small acts.
It is the idea that sevenseconds truly can, at least if
it's a meaningful and anintentional act, that those can
(08:19):
have really profound rippleeffects.
We've had stories of itchanging someone's day to the
extent of literally savingsomeone's life.
It starts there and then wecontinue to provide ongoing
programming.
That's really more of buildingskill sets for students and
youth in classroom or youthprogram settings.
Eric Price (08:37):
Yeah, okay, eric, you want to take a pop at that.
Eric Driessen (08:40):
The things that I'm seeing in schools really
echo what Luke has.
But one of the things that Ithink kind of resonates with me
is the connection piece.
That connection providesrelationships.
Kids develop relationships withkids that they don't
necessarily spend a lot of timewith right they're a group of
(09:02):
friends or whatever the casemight be.
So now all of a sudden theserelationships have grown much
wider and the conversations orkids are having with the
curriculum is a safe environment.
So kids are feeling a lot moresafe to have conversations that
cause deeper relationships andso pretty soon you see a culture
(09:24):
almost building within theschool of caring, a more caring
and connected group of students.
So only seven seconds.
We have a fantastic curriculum.
It's called the connectioncurriculum.
So we have that, for it's notjust for schools but it works
really well for schools.
But through that this buildsmore relationships and
(09:49):
connections.
So then kids feel a little morecomfortable reaching out if
they don't have somebody.
Luke Wall (09:56):
You mentioned the US surgeon general at the top of
the show, and he's been on anumber of podcasts.
He's going on speaking toursright now and he's oftentimes
asked what are some of thethings that we can do to address
this, and he most recently saidthere isn't just one policy
that's going to change this atan individual level.
If there's one thing that I canencourage you to do today is to
(10:17):
smile at a stranger.
Right, that takes less thanseven seconds and it seems so
small, but the act of receivinga smile from a stranger on the
street, how that changes thethings that are going on in your
brain, right, that actuallytriggers that you feel a little
bit more connected to justsociety at large and you feel a
little bit less alone in whatyou go through, right, and so it
is that idea that such simplelittle things can sometimes be
(10:41):
that piece that can changesomeone's day or what they're
experiencing.
Eric Price (10:44):
So what those brain scientists are saying?
It's not creeping people out,it's actually making them feel.
Luke Wall (10:50):
Yes, exactly, exactly .
Erich Bolz (10:53):
Why don't you tell us a little bit about your
curriculum?
Luke Wall (10:55):
Yeah, I'd be happy to .
So the connection curriculumit's a really academic term for
what it is.
It's a youth program thatindividuals as teachers,
counselors, advisors, anyoneworking with youth can use,
targeted at sixth or twelfthgrade.
We've been in the process ofdeveloping it for a number of
years.
We have some internal long timeeducators that have been
(11:17):
helping to develop it.
We have a scientific advisoryboard that includes mental
health professionals, publichealth professionals that work
really specifically in the spaceof social health, and they have
helped develop this product, ifyou want to call it that.
But it's really a program thatcan be used over the course of
up to 30 lessons.
(11:38):
It has three different parts toit.
Each of those parts arecentered around three separate
things, the first one beingdeveloping your own skill sets
as students, as youth, some ofthose just very basic social,
emotional skill sets.
The second one is groundedaround empathy.
We know that one of the biggestkeys to relationship, the
(11:58):
biggest keys to the meaningfulconnection, is empathy with
others.
And then the third one isactivity based, and that's
really the act of living outthat action in your community,
whether that's in the school,whether that's a community at
large that might be individualsand those change every single
time, but each of those threedifferent types of lessons
(12:19):
rotate, they repeat all with theidea of building a skill set
throughout the year and, as toEric mentioned earlier that it
really keeps that engagementlevel at a very high level
throughout the entire schoolyear, where you have kids
interacting at a level of depththat you find a place of
belonging at the school thatyou're involved in.
Eric Price (12:40):
So one of these, the I Know Lonely project.
What tell us a little bit aboutthat?
Luke Wall (12:45):
Yeah, that's really the public version of the
connection curriculum, becausewe know that this, in fact, with
the very first pilot programthat we ever ran with our
connection curriculum, it cameback about 75% of students felt
less lonely having gone throughit.
Funny enough, it was about 80to 85% of teachers and
administrators felt like theywere more connected with each
(13:08):
other, or their own schooldistrict.
So, funny enough, it seemed likeadults were actually being
impacted at a higher level, andmy guess is right is that to do
it well, you have to learn itwell for yourself, right?
And so they really had to leaninto it.
And so we knew that what we'reproviding, while it's really
targeted at youth, it isrelevant for every age group,
(13:29):
and so the I Know Lonely projectis really that public version
of that.
So we produced the stories thatare part of our empathy lessons
.
Those stories are a publicresource, both on podcast and
both on video format.
Eric Price (13:41):
Now don't go wandering off on your lonesome,
because we promise to be rightback in about 60 seconds with
more from our friends at only 7seconds, right here on Outliers
in Education.
Ad VO (14:26):
The final question.
Eric Price (14:56):
Welcome back everyone.
Today we're talking about theepidemic of student loneliness,
with Executive Director LukeWall and former Superintendent
Eric Driessen from the Nonprofitonly 7 seconds.
I wonder about our educators inthis equation of loneliness,
with COVID and not through COVID?
But do you see adults alsoexperiencing, our teachers
(15:18):
experiencing this loneliness,and how do you see that?
Eric Driessen (15:21):
Such a true statement, Eric.
I mean, adults are goingthrough the very same things and
it's difficult for them to findpeople to reach for, and most
of them feel like you know, ifI'm not okay emotionally, there
must be something wrong with me,you know.
So they internalize that stuffand it just gets worse and worse
.
Eric Price (15:41):
Is there shame associated with loneliness?
Eric Driessen (15:44):
I don't know, oh yes, Okay, Guilt, shame and
guilt both you bet.
So, anyway, this program, itworks for adults as well as it
does kids, and I think Lukereally hit it when he said you
know the fact that if you haveeducators or adults teaching the
lessons and the lessons areonly like 30 minute lessons,
(16:05):
they're really short then youknow they're internalizing that
and using it.
And if you have, across yourschool or your district or
whatever, you have all theadults doing that, then once
again, you're building strongerrelationships and connections
among your adults as well asyour kids.
Luke Wall (16:23):
Yeah, the statistics say that youth are the loneliest
demographic.
Right Across the board, 80% ofyouth feel lonely within the
last six months or regularly.
What they determine, but, thatbeing said, there isn't one
demographic or group adults onup that is below 50%.
It's a regular human occurrence.
It's something that, from thedawn of time, has been a driving
(16:45):
mechanism.
Right, that's how we started toadvance civilization out of the
need for supporting each otherand within that at the same time
, the reason that we are focusedreally exclusively on youth is
we want to get as far upstreamas we possibly can and so
delivering results to youth.
Even I have an eight-year-oldson myself and I'm starting to
(17:06):
do some of this work with him.
And if we're able to train andequip people at that age, they
don't have the problems that wemight at our own ages.
Right now on this podcast,right, I wish so much that, and
I had great family and parentsand teaching and upbringing, and
yet there's so many soft skillsets that would have been so
much more helpful to my ownrelationships with family and
(17:28):
friends that I wish I wasn'thaving to piecemeal together
when I got to my 20s and feltlonely.
And so how much better can wetrain and equip kids today to
have those skill sets at ayounger and younger age?
Erich Bolz (17:38):
Well, congratulations to you, Luke,
for starting to figure thatstuff out in your 20s.
Eric Price (17:46):
We are late learners .
Eric Driessen (17:47):
Exactly right.
Erich Bolz (17:50):
Can either one or both of you share some success
stories, some testimonials thatyou've heard that really point
to the impact that you're making?
Luke Wall (17:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and I just have so many that come
to top of mind.
The first one I'll just mention.
I was recently at a schoolassembly and talking to a
teacher and we had just done ateacher training.
The previous two weeks we doprofessional development with
teachers as they start toonboard.
This teacher comes up to me twoweeks after I'd seen him the
first time and he says hey, Iwant you to know that I was
(18:20):
reminded after your lastpresentation to reach out to a
friend that I knew wasstruggling and in that I reached
out to him and he was in themiddle of attempting to take his
own life.
Wow, and we have since gottenhim help needed and if it wasn't
for hearing your message, hewould probably not be here today
.
Right, and that's the mostextreme example.
(18:43):
I still am like recovering fromhearing that a couple of weeks
ago, because there's no greateroutcome.
And yet, at the same time, Ialso have stories where I had a
16-year-old girl come up to me afew weeks back in a similar
situation as far as she had afamily member that took their
own life recently and she wasjust struggling to cope with the
(19:05):
loneliness she was feeling fromthat void and she felt like she
was the only person in theworld that was feeling lonely
and that no one else felt likeit.
And then she saw that half ofthe school district around her,
all the other kids around her,were feeling lonely as well.
She goes.
I realize I'm not the only onethat has been feeling this way
and, even though my circumstancemight be different, I realized
(19:26):
that it's okay for me to open upto some of my peers about what
I'm feeling right now.
Right and like.
Those are the things that weknow, like that's where a change
starts to happen.
Erich Bolz (19:36):
Wow, yeah, it starts with awareness.
Eric Price (19:38):
This loneliness.
We talked about it going backhistorically, right, I mean.
I think about you know Beatles,you know one is the loneliest
number, and so my question isyou know how far back is this?
Is this getting worse?
Luke Wall (19:49):
Yeah, I will say it's been something that's been an
issue since the dawn of time.
To some extent, right, but astechnology has advanced it's
gotten worse and worse.
Robert Putnam put out a book Ibelieve it was in the late 90s
called Bowling Alone, and inthat book he talks about the
breakdown of the social fabricof community groups.
(20:11):
We talk about the breakdown ofeverything from knitting clubs
to bridge clubs to you name it.
And in the social fabric thatstarted to really fray when
technology entered the space,whether it was radio and then
television funny enough, I reada thesis paper on the beginning
of the air conditioning unit wasthe first instigator, because
(20:34):
people used to sit out on theirfront porch and know who all
their neighbors were, right,yeah.
And then the air conditioningunit all of a sudden everyone
goes inside, right, but you usedto sit on the front porch for
your cool air, wow, yeah.
And so that technology TV hasbecome a very individualized
entertainment.
Entertainment used to be agroup activity, right, and so
now that entertainment sits atour hand, at a moment's notice,
(20:56):
if we get bored with theconversation, we can look away
from that conversation and lookdown at our phone.
And so, absolutely, socialmedia plays a huge role, not
especially with youth, Imentioned it earlier, but five
hours a day is what youth spendon their phone or on social
media, not just their phone,five hours a day on social media
and that is a driving drivingforce towards the loneliness
(21:17):
that you feel for a number ofreasons, and the surgeon general
put out a separate advisoryspecifically around that
epidemic and building awarenessaround that, and they really are
two pieces that play togetherin a significant way.
Erich Bolz (21:31):
I love the Robert Putt and reference.
More to come on that.
Eric Price (21:34):
Well, when I was listening to Luke's response, he
was talking about bowling alone, and I was thinking about
kingpin in terms of my bowlingreferences.
So sorry, luke, you're wayahead of me there.
Erich Bolz (21:45):
What barriers are, if any, are you seeing in terms
of being able to implement thismore widely across schools?
Luke Wall (21:51):
Oh man, the main thing I will say is there is
pending the school.
Every school district is verydifferent, but there is a lot of
red tape and bureaucracy thatis challenging at different
levels, whether that's just thesheer number of decision makers
as well.
As I just talked to an educatortoday that is going to start
doing some of our curriculum,but it requires training and
(22:14):
sharing with parents what SELeven means.
Right, we're not evenofficially an SEL program, but
there's now this stigmaassociated with an acronym,
right, and so the polarizationjust of a lot of different
things across the board is anissue within school districts,
but then parents and in theschool boards, and you name it.
(22:35):
That plays a pretty significantrole in our ability to have an
impact on kids.
Erich Bolz (22:40):
Related question.
I think this will resonate withboth of you.
As I know, Brewster has been along time consumer of our EES
surveys at CEE, which is oureducational effectiveness survey
, and Luke and I have had acouple of occasions to connect
on what we provide in terms ofscreening.
What synergies do you see inour work with your work as
you're thinking about it, Luke,and with your direct experience
(23:02):
with our products, Eric?
Eric Driessen (23:03):
Well, first, I think the work that you guys do
at CEE is outstanding, whetherit be academic or community
culture data that we were ableto receive and other schools
receive is really helpful infinding gaps, figuring out
strategic planning, supportingwhere the strengths and the
(23:25):
weaknesses are, and I'll justpiggyback on that.
Luke Wall (23:28):
I'm super excited for ways that we can work together
and continue to work together.
We're an emerging program andwith that, one of the things
that's really important for usboth the funders and to school
districts that are interested inour work is does it work and
what does it work doing?
And we have some of thatpreliminary evidence.
But to have a third party thatis able to help drive some of
(23:51):
that that shows this schooldistrict started using only
seven seconds and now theirstudents are finding belonging
in more meaningful ways, that isreally powerful, and so I'm
excited to continue to pursuethat and work together on that,
because that's a prettysignificant synergy and benefit
to us.
And then, likewise, for us tonot have to necessarily recreate
(24:11):
the wheel when it comes tosurveys.
But, by the way, if school ABC,you want to start working with
us here are you some of CEE'ssurveying that you haven't done
yet as well?
Because that's a benefit tothem beyond just what we're
providing to.
Erich Bolz (24:27):
Well, we are excited about that as well, and it'll
be really interesting to see howthis matures, eric, you had
something to add.
Eric Driessen (24:32):
I was just going to say.
One of the other things CEEdoes is it brings data from
other school districts.
Don't reinvent the wheel.
Let's take a look at this stuff.
Eric Price (24:42):
In the schools, in the classrooms in education K-12
, are we asking students aboutare you experiencing loneliness?
Are we having thoseconversations with them about
loneliness?
Eric Driessen (24:51):
I think it varies , just like anything else right,
the school districts, the ages,things like that.
But to talk to kids in aclassroom setting, there's a lot
of kids the kids that maybeneed this the most aren't going
to speak up and so they don'treally get the opportunity to be
heard, even though you'rehaving those conversations.
And that's one of the bestthings I think about the
(25:15):
connection curriculum is itcreates a way to do that and
it's done in small groups.
I think that's an effective wayto allow kids to be able to
reach out.
Luke Wall (25:26):
Because of the US Surgeon General's advisory,
there is a much greater emphasisjust across the US around this.
So more and more I'm starting tohear both teachers and parents
engage around the conversationand specifically talking about
loneliness and connection.
I think, tangentially though,there's been an ongoing
conversation about belonging,which I know, as part of the
(25:47):
survey that I see theadministers, is really the
language of belonging.
So I think that there's been anongoing conversation, but
necessarily calling out thelanguage of loneliness is maybe.
There's certainly stigmaattached and loneliness is very
subjective, and so even when weask the question in those
assemblies, having felt lonely,we give a precursor to that of
(26:10):
here's six different things thatloneliness may feel like, and
those things are like I feellike I don't belong, I feel like
I don't have someone I can turnto in a time of need.
I feel like and we list thosethings out that it may feel like
versus here's the definition ofloneliness, because there are
so many pieces to that and itgets complicated to talk about,
especially when there is thestigma that oh, if I'm lonely
(26:33):
then something must be wrongwith me, like Eric alluded to
earlier.
Eric Price (26:37):
Yeah, and I think if our teachers are feeling lonely
and they're shame associatedwith it, I think this must be a
really difficult thing to handlein a classroom.
So you released a new strategicplan for your organization
recently.
Where are you headed next?
Luke Wall (26:53):
with your work For the last few years.
We've really been an awarenesscampaign and so with that we
started because this lonelinessconversation is for everyone.
We started fielding calls fromveteran affairs departments to
lawyer wellness groups and youname it, and it's been really
fun.
Erich Bolz (27:12):
I was going to say there's a joke in there
somewhere.
Luke Wall (27:16):
There it is, you know .
But lawyers have one of thehighest rates of suicide of any
vocation in the world Wow Right,highest rates of mental health
admittances into institutions,and so there's a drastic need
for so much of what we talkabout and at the same time,
we're a staff of two full-timestaff.
(27:37):
We realize that we can only doso much, and with the new
advisory, there's also a lot ofgreat individuals and
organizations jumping into thisspace.
And so, moving forward, we'regoing to be very specifically
focused on addressing the youthloneliness epidemic, and so for
us, that means really puttingall of our resources not just
some of them, but all of theminto delivering the curriculum
(28:00):
in more places, doing moreassemblies, speaking in public
to youth and about youth,creating youth programs that are
for youth.
That's all a part of wherewe're headed general awareness
campaigns, but directly targetedat youth, because, again,
they're the loneliestdemographic that there is, and
if we're going to change theculture of loneliness being a
(28:21):
pervasive issue that's happenedover the last 100 plus years in
America, it has to start withthe kids of the next generation
that are coming.
Eric Price (28:29):
Wow, there just seems like there's so many
fingers here, like you talkedabout different groups that are
experiencing loneliness, and wehave a ton more questions, but
this is the time in our showthat we're going to move it to
the recap.
Remix master Bullsy, what doyou have for a summarization for
us?
Erich Bolz (28:46):
Well, I just want to point out to our guests, since
we've all gotten to know eachother fairly well, that this
entire process is really abehavior management strategy for
me.
Otherwise, I know this is allabout whether I was listening or
not.
So yeah, starting from the top,really really great origin
story I mean there's nothingmore motivating than taking on
something that becomes yourlife's work as a result of
(29:08):
witnessing what a family memberis going through and really
ultimately wanting to help.
So I really liked what EricDresen had to say about looking
for something to help beyondkind of that canned SEL
curriculum Not that we haveanything against canned SEL
curriculum at CEE, but helpingstudents build these habits,
these self-regulatory habits, isan all day, everything in
(29:29):
school, out of school, 24 hour,seven day a week proposition.
So calling that out, I think,is really important.
The notion that everyone cantake small steps, can take small
acts inside of schools.
I really connected to what GregBenner had to say in episode
six on our show, with strategiesacross school buildings like
warm greetings and two by 10.
And those are small strategiesor steps that schools can take,
(29:51):
but individually it can be assimple as smiling in an
appropriate way at a strangeracross the street.
Only seven seconds provides aframework for being able to take
these small steps to combatloneliness and again developing
SEL skill sets, teaching empathy, just really important things.
You throw a loneliestdemographic.
I did not actually know thatuntil the show today and then in
(30:13):
their works, anecdotally,seeing that sometimes 20% of
students report that they'relonely every waking moment of
their lives is almost too muchto comprehend.
Tech makes it worse.
Luke's given us some requiredreading In addition to Bowling
Alone.
I think one of the mostpowerful books I ever read was
Putnam's book that I believe hewrote in 2016, our Kids, the
(30:33):
American Dream and Crisis Bothreally great books for
understanding the framework ofwhere our youth are at today.
I also learned today, after 25years of being a proud public
educator most of those as aschool administrator that
there's red tape in schooldistricts.
In terms of how this ties toour work at CEE, we really see
(30:57):
only seven seconds as just oneof many tools out there that
have the ability to foster someof the common conditions and
characteristics that we saw inour outliers study, for example,
providing a family atmosphereand caring for each and all
children.
And to close, there really is nosilver bullet.
There's no one singularapproach that's going to help us
(31:19):
with a lot of our kids'concerns.
We heard date superintendentcandidate Reed Sarris talk
recently about 58% of our kidsin the state of Washington are
experiencing full blown anxietynot anxious moments, but anxiety
, and that distinction is notsubtle, and I think our way
through this complicated timefor our youth isn't one simple,
one size fits all approach.
(31:40):
It's really blending the bestof these methods and green
shoots, and so I would say,gentlemen, thank you so much for
coming on our show, gratitudeto you for doing what you're
doing on behalf of our kids whoneed our help.
So so much.
Eric Price (31:52):
Luke and Eric.
Anything that you'd like to addto that fantastic summary.
Luke Wall (31:57):
I want to just say if you're someone that is
experiencing loneliness rightnow and you're feeling it, I
guarantee there's at least goingto be one listener to this
that's in the middle of this andsays I'm one of the people
you're talking about feelinglonely.
We do have a guide on ourwebsite that if you're feeling
lonely.
It's called the I Know LonelyGuide.
There's just some reallypractical tips in there of what
(32:20):
to do if you're experiencingloneliness.
Please go check that out.
Eric Price (32:23):
And Luke your website.
Luke Wall (32:24):
It is only the number seven secondscom.
Perfect, Awesome.
The last thing I'll justmention if you want to learn
more about this work and hearabout it from someone that's far
more of an expert than me, theUS Surgeon General actually put
out a book called Together.
I recommend it to everyone andanyone.
It really dives into some ofthe specifics around what
(32:44):
individuals can do, whatorganizations can do, what even
school districts can do aroundaddressing loneliness as a whole
.
Eric Price (32:52):
So if you're out there looking around at
onlyseventecondscom, you canfind some videos and some
episodes from their podcast.
I Know Lonely as well.
Gentlemen, thank you for reallycaring for and loving our kids.
We need more people like you inthe profession.
So thank you for your work andthank you for being on the show.
Thank you so much for having us.
Erich Bolz (33:11):
And thanks to all of you who are listening in today.
You can find us anywhere youlisten to your favorite podcast
or visit us online ataffectivistorg.
Until next time.
This has been Outliers inEducation.
Eric Price (33:25):
Wrap it baby.
Ad VO (33:27):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive changein your school or district, take
a moment to visit CEE, theCenter for Educational
Effectiveness, ateffectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools C-S-E-S-org.
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