April 1, 2024 • 33 mins
Discover the strategies and the heart that drives exceptional educational leadership with Dr. Laurie Dent, the 2024 Washington State Superintendent of the Year. Dr. Dent unveils her playbook for guiding the Sumner-Bonney Lake School District to new heights, and how she's hit the home runs she has, including her steadfast commitment to the pursuit of a 100% graduation rate.
Dr. Dent delves into the meticulous use of student data as a compass for policy creation and underscores the value of empowering students' voices in shaping their own educational journey.
Finally, we explore the ripple effect of encouragement and the pivotal role of today's educational leaders in nurturing the leaders of the future. Who might you ignite with that spark of inspiration? Don't miss this enriching exploration into the ever-evolving landscape of educational leadership.
"Outliers in Education" is a project of CEE, The Center for Educational Effectiveness. Find out more at effectiveness.org.
Produced by Jamie Howell at Howell at the Moon Productions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Price (00:19):
Thank you.
What does it take to be thebest in education?
Well, that's been our entirefocus here since episode one on
Outliers in Education, and todaywe're talking to a leader who
knows firsthand.
Stay tuned, and we'll ask thatquestion of the 2024 Washington
State Superintendent of the Yearherself.
Ad (00:37):
I think we really need to change how we look at what we do
in schools.
Everything that we do aseducators, it just comes back to
people.
Dr. Laurie Dent (00:45):
I love it, even when it's hard, especially when
it's hard.
Ad (00:48):
Ultimately.
I mean, this is about what'sbest for kids.
Eric Price (00:53):
Hey everybody, Eric Price here, along with my friend
Eric Bowles from the Center forEducational Effectiveness, and
we are going for gold today.
You know, Bowlesy, it's nicewhen you're a hardworking,
bordering on overwhelmededucator, just to get a little
pat on the back every now andthen, isn't it?
Do you have any trophies inyour trophy case that you
remember really?
Erich Bolz (01:12):
stoked your fires Not too many since third grade
EP, but I was named about adecade ago as my university's
alumni of the year and you know,given I think all of us have a
bit of imposter syndrome, justto be considered and then
reading all the other people onthe list, it was, it was really
quite an enormous honor.
(01:33):
Wow, that's impressive.
Eric Price (01:35):
It's a little known fact.
Well, now it's going to belargely known.
I think one of my like, I'vegot some educational awards, but
one of my memorable awards Ithink I was in the sixth grade
and I got a best of battingaverage trophy.
It was the first trophy I evergot.
That's all I've got Bowles.
Seriously, that's reallyimpressive.
Erich Bolz (01:55):
Well, you peaked in sixth grade.
I think that's nothing to writehome about.
Eric Price (02:00):
Well, today on the show we've got a leader who took
down one of the highest awardsin the land when it comes to
education.
She's been at the helm of theSumner-Bonnie Lake School
District for seven now going oneight years but she's worked in
just about every other role inthe district over the past 25
years.
She recently spearheaded ahugely successful 100%
(02:20):
graduation campaign and iswidely recognized as a
transformative leader.
These are just a few of thethings that led to her being
named the 2024 Washington StateSuperintendent of the Year, and,
on top of that, she somehowmanaged to complete the Boston
Marathon, not once, but twice.
Dr Lori Dent, welcome to theshow.
Dr. Laurie Dent (02:42):
Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Eric Price (02:44):
Well, that's impressive, like seriously the
marathon, I think Bolsey and Ibarely make it up like an
escalator that's powered.
So kudos to you.
Dr. Laurie Dent (02:54):
Yeah, thanks, that was quite an accomplishment
.
Eric Price (02:56):
Well, congratulations on Soup of the
Year.
That's a huge deal.
They singled you out of 295other soups across the state and
it says here that you're onlythe 10th female superintendent
to be so honored.
What's that been like for you?
Dr. Laurie Dent (03:11):
Well, so here's the best thing about winning
that award I work with the mostincredible people you will ever
meet and talk about baseball.
I feel like I'm a World Seriescoach, just kind of hanging out
in the dugout watching my teamhit home runs like one after
another.
And I'm a like a World Seriescoach, just kind of hanging out
in the dugout watching my teamhit home runs like one after
another.
And I'm telling you I know whatit's like to strike out.
So when you hit those home runsit feels pretty good and you
(03:35):
know they.
They are just like thesewell-seasoned, well-tuned
athletes that don't back downfrom a challenge.
Well-tuned athletes that don'tback down from a challenge.
They take a fast pitch like youwouldn't believe, and I'm
telling you it is paying offdividends for kids.
I love the work that we do andI love serving this community,
but I'm telling you, this teamthat I'm on is just incredible.
Eric Price (04:00):
Well, you can just keep going with those baseball
analogies.
When you got this award, didthat open up any doors for you
at all?
The soup of the year.
Dr. Laurie Dent (04:10):
Well, so let's see, it happened in November and
, hey, it opened this door.
Eric Price (04:17):
Drop the mic right there.
Yes, done, yeah, exactly,that's all we need, right?
Exactly, podcast over yes.
Dr. Laurie Dent (04:23):
But it's opened doors for me to continue to
tell our story of what'shappening in this school
district, because I'm tellingyou it's hard being a
superintendent right now.
I've told people it's not awalk in the park, it's like a
marathon through a maze and youare navigating things constantly
.
You know, to tell the story ofthe great work that happens in
(04:44):
this district every day for kidshas been the best door opened
possible.
Eric Price (04:48):
Very cool.
Erich Bolz (04:49):
I want to piggyback on something you just said there
, because I think it reallyneeds to be sussed out a bit.
When you said it's hard being asuperintendent right now, I
don't think it matters whetheryou're in Pasco, where I'm
coming to you from today, or inSumner-Bonnie Lake.
I would say the same thingprobably applies across the
board to principals what do yousee as our path back to maybe a
(05:09):
little bit more palatable,normal, predictable role for
educational leaders?
Dr. Laurie Dent (05:13):
Oh, that's a great question because, you're
right, it's challenging being aneducator.
The kids that came back to uspost-pandemic are different than
the kids that left us, andwhat's been exciting and
challenging in the same vein ishow to respond to that.
And what we've done is we'vejust decided to take this
future-focused approach wherewe've embraced what's different
(05:38):
and we lead differently.
We're leading for a future thatis exciting and unknown, I mean
.
But getting back to normal isjust.
It's like what we do Educatorsare.
They're just, they aresuperheroes, right, they can
have a fire drill one minute,they can go to lunch recess and
teach a lesson in math, all in,like you know, the span of a
couple hours.
But really getting back tonormal for us was just building
(06:02):
back in those routines for kids,responding to all sorts of
issues ranging from mentalhealth to a skill deficit.
You know, we we just wanted tobe really attentive and
cultivate great relationshipsagain with with our kids.
So, you know, I wish I hadsomething like marvelous and
like this secret recipe, buttruly it starts with
relationships and connectingwith students and really getting
(06:25):
to know who they are again.
Eric Price (06:27):
When you take a look at change and you look at
there's like systems change.
But you talked about some ofthat relationship piece.
So when you look at the cultureand then you look at that,
systems change, there's a lot ofthings that go on.
That's a very complicatedprocess.
What things go through yourhead when you say, okay, like if
I'm going to really change asystem or a culture?
(06:47):
These are the things that Ithink about.
What goes through your head?
Dr. Laurie Dent (06:50):
Well, so you know, I've been in this district
.
I started in 98 as a teacherand then poof, here I am, right,
voila, I'm superintendent.
So I've seen a lot of changethroughout the district and just
over time, man, those bigboulders boy, they sure come at
you and sometimes you don't evenexpect it right, like our
demographics.
(07:10):
We had to respond to ourdemographics.
That sort of snuck up on us.
They were invisible to us for awhile because when you get
comfortable, sometimes you don'tsee what's right in front of
you.
Sometimes you don't see what'sright in front of you.
And we had some real issues withequity and had to respond to
those in a pretty critical waywhere we had to change a lot of
(07:33):
our systems, instructionally,how we respond to students,
culturally.
And in this district, all of asudden, it's like we woke up one
morning and you know we weren't93% white anymore, we were 60,
like 68, 67% white.
And we had to be reallyresponsive to that and elevate
(07:55):
students, I mean like maintainhigh expectations and standards
and add on to what was alreadyworking.
But we did so in a way thatreally built in that why and we
put faces to stories and meaningbehind issues and I mean really
gave it a purpose, so thatpeople didn't think that it was
(08:15):
like some random act ofbrilliance.
It was truly what this cultureneeded to change in a positive
way, so that students wouldn'tfeel invisible in our classrooms
, where they were honored andcelebrated and valued for who
they were.
I mean, that's probably likethat wasn't just a boulder, that
was like a what's bigger than aboulder.
Erich Bolz (08:36):
A big boulder, a big boulder.
Dr. Laurie Dent (08:38):
But it's been amazing to see the
transformation since we likejust launched that.
I mean it, it's been awesome.
I mean our Hispanic studentsare graduating like crazy.
I mean just knocking it off thecharts, like and it's just been
fun to to see students who oncereally felt marginalized like
(08:59):
take ownership of their schoolsand yeah, it's been awesome.
Eric Price (09:03):
And was that a difficult movement for adults in
your system?
Dr. Laurie Dent (09:07):
Yeah, I think it was difficult for all of us.
It was something we weren'tused to.
Teachers like routine,educators like routine, and when
you interrupt that system thatyou're talking about and
introduce change, that's why ithas to be done so delicately and
so carefully, so that it sticksand there's sustainability with
it.
But, yeah, it was tough for allof us.
(09:28):
We love kids in this district,like everybody does, but when
you're asked to do somethingdifferently, you want to do it
right, you want to do it well,and I work with a lot of
educators that areperfectionists right, they want
to be perfect.
So yeah it was like oh boy, okay, Something new that I know is
good, but how do I do this?
Erich Bolz (09:50):
Well, you know, everything you say about your
work really resonates with me,lori.
I was assistant superintendentfor quite a while at Richland
School District and we saw thesame thing happening there.
I think I was fortunate to kindof be out in front of it.
It's like whoa, we're rapidlybecoming more poor than we're
becoming anything else and,given it was a fairly affluent
community, a huge shift in whatneeded to happen.
(10:11):
Can you share with us maybe acouple of specific initiatives
or tasks that folks took on thatyou know made that ultimate
difference?
Yeah absolutely.
Dr. Laurie Dent (10:21):
First, let me talk about our community
partnerships, because sometimesI'm not sure that we always give
our community the credit theydeserve.
When we have an issue in thisdistrict, we invite our
community in to help us solve it, and they were a critical
factor in helping us with all ofthis work related to equity.
You know from our parents whohave students with special needs
(10:43):
, to families of students withcolor, you name it.
We invited our community in tohelp us sit at the table, have a
conversation and figure it out.
What do we need to do as adistrict to be better for your
child, our student?
And you know they gave us ideaslike and this sounds so simple,
(11:20):
but where is my child seen inthe hallway?
Where are they seen in yourlibraries?
When we send information home,how many languages are we
sending it home in?
We've purchased or that we'renow using?
Because of their influence andtheir input?
You know, when we talk aboutchange, it's like involve the
people first, who the changedirectly impacts.
And I'm telling you, when weinvited our community in, what a
fantastic partnership.
We even invited in healthworkers.
(11:42):
Are we missing anything interms of physical or mental
health with students?
And from there we built juststronger, more robust systems of
support for mental health.
I mean, equity has so manyfaces to it, right?
I mean, that's probably one ofthe highest leverage strategies
(12:04):
we used was inviting ourcommunity in so they also knew
what we were doing.
You know, we wanted parents andfamilies to see what was
happening behind the curtainwhen how we build systems to
make schools stronger forstudents.
And you know one of ourstudents in particular, I
remember a Hispanic female.
At the time we were losing ourHispanic females like
(12:33):
exponentially faster than otherdemographics.
And you know we we got herconnected.
Well, first it was throughelevating her just as a human
being and a person in ourschools and then cultivating a
relationship with her.
And then through innovation, wewere offering these new
programs to reach more students.
And she wanted to be a teacher,had no idea until we got to
(12:56):
know her as a person.
We connected her with a program.
Um, long story short firstgraduate in her family, wow.
Uh high first high schoolgraduate in her family.
And she has two youngersiblings in our school, a school
district, that are now lookingup to her and looking forward to
their graduation date, becausewe are the home of 100%
(13:17):
graduation, right, and that'sour goal and that's our mission.
But to watch her graduate, towatch this family just break
down and cry, I mean it actuallymakes me emotional right now,
because I remember that theywere so proud of her and I just
think that we've not onlychanged her life but we've
changed the trajectory of thatentire family.
(13:39):
High school diploma I'm tellingyou it is a powerful piece of
paper.
Erich Bolz (13:44):
I think what gets to all of us as public educators
if you're able to stay in andweather.
Some of the really difficultaspects of the work are just
those stories when you know thatyou've made an impact on
someone's generationaltrajectory.
There's not too many jobs inthe world where you get to come
home and say you know, gosh, Idid that today.
Oh yeah.
So thank you for sharing thatand so many of the things that
(14:04):
you talked about challenging thestatus quo family atmosphere we
really saw in our outlier studyat CEE.
We also know that Sumner BonneyLake is a great client of CEE.
Sumner Bonnie Lake is a greatclient of CEE and generally I
don't like to go the infomercialroute, but you know, when you
talked about culturalresponsiveness, that's one of
the 11 characteristics that wewe help districts measure.
(14:25):
Did you see anything in thedata, or did you use the data as
a catalyst for change?
Dr. Laurie Dent (14:30):
We absolutely did.
We put our CEE data in front ofI call it, the superintendent's
advisory student council, whereI bring in high school students
to help me solve issues at thedistrict level, and we were
drafting a new anti-racistpolicy for the entire district.
So I was talking to the schoolboard and I said, hey, why don't
(14:51):
I put this in front of somekids and get their input?
Because, again, they're theones that are really the
recipients of this policy andwho it will help.
But before I did that, I usedour CEE data to show them hey,
here's an issue that we'retrying to, at the district level
, solve and strengthen a systemthat really needs some kind of
(15:13):
bones behind it.
So we use that data with ourstudent council and I'm telling
you the information that theycould extrapolate from the data
that they saw.
You know whether kids of colorfelt safe.
We have critical conversationsabout race.
I'm trying to think of whatexactly the questions were and
(15:36):
they were like, yeah, we've gota problem, and what they did
from that data, from theirconversation, is helped us
further develop the anti-racistpolicy that we just passed last
year.
And like kudos to them, becausethose aren't easy conversations
for adults to have much lesskids to have, but when they
could sort of anchor themselvesto the student data, that
(15:59):
student data is.
It's fantastic.
It gives you so much goodinformation about what kids are
thinking.
At the time they were like, ohokay, well, this is coming from
kids, not adults.
So, you know, maybe this, maybewhat I'm feeling, is real.
So, yeah, we love that data.
Eric Price (16:15):
Well, it's time for us to take a short break.
Stick around, because we've gota lot more to talk about with
Washington State.
Superintendent of the.
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Eric Price (17:30):
Welcome back to Outliers in Education.
Today, we're joined by the 2024Washington State Superintendent
of the Year herself, Dr LoriDent.
Now, Lori, when you talk aboutthat 100% graduation rate and
you talk about some of theseanti-racist policies in
conjunction with some of thatgraduation, what part does
(17:50):
listening play to that?
Like, how do you listen to yourfolks?
Dr. Laurie Dent (18:17):
Like, how do you listen to your folks?
Because, like, if you would saystudent voice to me, you know,
even five years ago I have sucha influence to create change.
But you hear stories and youcan connect with people in a way
that you really can't if youdon't listen to what they're
saying.
It's as easy and as challengingas being intentional about
having conversations with people, whether they're students,
staff, parents, family members,community partners but it's
(18:41):
carving out time to haveconversations, to hear the
experiences that are happeningaround you.
When you do, it's very honoringto people to just allow them to
talk and to share what they'veexperienced.
When you listen to people likeDr Larry Nyland taught me early
(19:01):
on listen more, talk less.
And when you do, the path ofwhat you need to do as a leader
is laid out for you.
If you just hear it, do youthink most?
Eric Price (19:11):
leaders listen Laurie.
Dr. Laurie Dent (19:13):
Well, it's a skill that you have to work at
and it's a muscle that you Imean that you really do have to
cultivate, because I thinkleaders, we're solution slayers
right, we fix problems Right.
Eric Price (19:25):
Right.
Dr. Laurie Dent (19:26):
It has transformed my leadership.
When you are present withpeople and you just listen to
what their heart is telling youand you see the tears on their
face or the smile, theexcitement, and you can be in
that moment with them toexperience what they're feeling.
And then, if you use it to makeyour systems even stronger, wow
(19:48):
, I'm telling you.
That's like an ownership thatthey feel and it resonates with
them.
It's like, yeah, I value whatyou're saying and here's how.
Eric Price (19:58):
And did you do you think that that listening muscle
really helped you in that ahundred percent graduation
campaign that you have initiated?
Dr. Laurie Dent (20:06):
Oh for, sure, I'm a big believer in high
school diploma.
You know, like many of us onthis screen, I've got a lot of
degrees, a lot of certificatesthat could probably paper a wall
right.
But the one that matters themost and actually it's right
there on my desk it diploma Ihave in my office is my high
school diploma, because it trulyis where it's where potential
(20:28):
starts and I mean that's our job, right is to give kids a
promising future full ofpotential.
I mean that's the exciting partof what we do.
It's kind of like I'm going togive you the tool.
Now go do something awesomewith your life.
Eric Price (20:44):
Yeah, how did you frame that in that 100%
graduation campaign?
How did that work?
What were some of the nuts andbolts and stories that went
along with that?
Dr. Laurie Dent (20:53):
Well, we were missing kids.
I mean, like I think when westarted I was over, like I think
I was around 112 kids thatdidn't graduate in that class.
Eric Price (21:00):
Out of how many.
Dr. Laurie Dent (21:01):
Well, that was about 84%.
And then, you know, when Italked to the entire staff in
August, I'm like, how is that OKwith us for one hundred and
eleven kids, or one hundred andtwelve kids, not to make it to
graduation?
And here's what I think.
I don't think they'd ever beentold that, because I think for a
lot of them, they teach theirclasses, they do a fantastic job
(21:22):
but it wasn't real until I puta number with it.
Classes, they do a fantasticjob, but it wasn't real until I
put a number with it.
And then every year it was thesame thing, and then last year I
think, we missed it by about 33kids one classroom.
So it's like, take that oneclassroom.
What are we going to do?
Well, we're going to try newthings, we're going to innovate,
right.
We cultivate, we elevate, weinnovate.
I mean, that's what we do right.
(21:50):
It's like it caught fire becauseeveryone in that football
stadium that we were with had ahigh school diploma and they
knew.
They knew that that's where itstarted.
That's what you need to get ajob.
Not everybody's going to go tocollege or the university, but
you can do something if you havea high school diploma.
And when I told them about thekids we were missing, they were
like, oh, like kids don'tgraduate and we just built in
this I mean real meaning behindwhat it means to have a high
(22:13):
school diploma.
I even put out this challenge inthe district for people to go
dig out their high schooldiplomas and put them in their
office.
They sent me pictures withtheir high school diploma.
Like there were times we haddistrict competitions.
You know if X amount of highschool teachers sent their
diplomas in, or maintenanceworkers, or you know they got
(22:34):
donuts or cookies or something,but so we had a lot of fun with
it.
But we also made it meaningfuland impactful and people around
here.
It's like that's what we standfor.
We want every single student tocross that stage and graduate.
Yeah, I mean, who are we goingto leave behind, right, like
who's not going to graduate?
Erich Bolz (22:50):
Yeah, an 85% graduation rate sounds great,
unless your kid's in that 15.
That's always been a mantra ofmine.
Hey, switching gears slightly,we're a little bit north of.
One in four superintendents inWashington state identify as
female.
It's a bit better than thenational average.
I think it's still a questionof is it enough progress and
what can we collectively do tofacilitate more women leaders
(23:11):
reaching the pinnacle of ourprofession?
Dr. Laurie Dent (23:13):
It's always great when we can talk about
females in leadership positions.
I mean, we make up 75% of theeducational staff, right?
And yet we make up just afraction of the superintendency.
And boy, there's so many layersto that right Of why and how
that happens.
But I think, honestly, we'vegot to start educating our
school boards.
They're the ones that hiresuperintendents and they tend to
(23:34):
hire they tend to hire males,and it's putting female leaders
in positions of influence andchange, so that they can really
show their leadership skills andwhat it takes to create, you
know, systematic change.
But, honestly, I think there'sa lot of work that needs to be
done with school boards todispel some myths and a
narrative that's out there aboutwomen leading massive
(23:55):
organizations.
I mean, I'm one of the largestemployers in Pierce County.
We're like a major corporationhere, right.
We're not a schoolhouse.
I mean, I got a $200 millionoperating budget, right.
Eric Price (24:05):
Laurie, if you were going to give a young woman some
advice that was going into thatleadership what would you say
to her?
Dr. Laurie Dent (24:12):
Probably one of the first pieces of advice I
would give her is to surroundherself with the best people
possible and really your outsideinfluences become what you
portray on the outside to people.
You know the people that arearound you.
They influence you greatly, youknow, you internalize it and
then all of a sudden you startsounding like it.
So be careful and verythoughtful about who you
(24:33):
surround yourself with.
Find people that are smarterthan I am, that have done you
know bigger and greater things,so that I can learn from them.
Eric Price (24:39):
That is not a hard ask for Bowles and me when we
get people that are smarter.
Dr. Laurie Dent (24:44):
Oh my gosh, we just find anybody in the room.
You guys are funny, I mean.
But seriously right, likesmarter people will make you
smarter and some people shy awayfrom that.
But I'm telling you, you findthe smartest person in the room
and you go, develop arelationship and you figure out
what they're doing.
So many talented women inWashington state.
Erich Bolz (25:02):
I've always said my whole life if I felt like I was
the smartest person in the room,I needed to leave the room.
I wasn't in the right room.
A quick follow-up what otherplatforms might we lever access
to bring more attention to thisissue?
Recruiting, mentoring, creatingthe conditions where taking
time off to be with little onesisn't a seven-year black mark on
(25:24):
a resume?
Kai, I mean, you identifiedtheir layers.
Where would we start and whatwould be those impact points?
Dr. Laurie Dent (25:31):
So it's going to start with me, and it's me
knowing my staff, knowingteachers in the buildings.
Who are you going to tap on theshoulder next?
Somebody tapped me on theshoulder and I still remember
that person to this day, butthey saw something in me that
they believed in.
So it's going to start with whoI am as a leader, and am I
looking for potential, notperfection, but am I looking to
(25:52):
see who in this district isleading in a way that fits our
core values and how we wouldwant our students to learn?
Laurie who was that that gaveyou the tap?
Yeah, her name was Mary LouisePeterson.
She was the executive directorof HR.
I just finished my MBA andthought, hey, I might give the
whole corporate thing a shot,you know.
And she was like uh-uh.
(26:14):
She's like, have you everthought about being an
administrator?
I was like, what do you meanLike an administrator, like the
principal?
And she was like yeah.
And I was like, well, no.
And she, yeah.
She sat me down and we had along talk and, lo and behold, a
few months later I was startingmy program at the University of
Washington.
Ad (26:33):
Wow.
Dr. Laurie Dent (26:36):
And it was really because she knew of my
work.
She didn't really know me, butshe was fantastic at just kind
of making you feel seen and Ifelt honored that she would even
like talk to me.
Like holy smokes, that's MaryLouise Peterson.
And then I saw her do thatseveral times to other women and
I thought, yeah, that's.
It starts with yourself as aleader, recognizing what's
(26:57):
around you and really developing.
Asking first, ask a questionSome people don't even.
You know, like me, I didn'teven think about it.
And then you know you go fromthere, but it means I don't lead
from behind my desk, that I'mout and about and I'm talking to
principals and then I'll askthem who are you tapping?
Who are you tapping on theshoulder to?
You know continue this sort oflegacy of excellence that I
(27:19):
inherited from Dr.
Eric Price (27:20):
Eisenman.
Dr. Laurie Dent (27:20):
Wow, wow yeah.
Eric Price (27:22):
Wow, Lori, there is so much there, like some of
these themes about asking,listening, being seen,
relationships and our goodfriend Bolzy.
Now his job is to wrap this amasterclass in leadership.
So I think, if I were tosynthesize right off the bat, I
would say wow, there were somepretty incredible leadership
(27:50):
notions dropped.
Erich Bolz (27:52):
I'll extrapolate a little bit.
It's hard being asuperintendent right now.
I think it's hard.
Being a classroom teacher rightnow it's hard.
I think any station that youoccupy in public education is
just really hard.
Right now Things are differentpost-pandemic.
It requires a future-focusedapproach.
It requires leading andlearning differently.
Relationships with kids therearen't any secret recipes.
It starts with relationships.
We know that from our work inthe Outlier Study.
(28:12):
We also help you measure thatat CEE.
I loved what Lori had to sayabout really noticing the issues
with equity.
As your demographics change,you continue to operate in the
same way.
We're leaving folks behind.
I loved what she had to sayabout community leaders inviting
the community in to help solvethe issue.
We know from Heifetz's work inparticular, our role as adaptive
leaders is to facilitate change.
(28:34):
You know there is no.
Even though Lori, in her officefull of disclosure, has a
Wonder Woman costume hanging offof her door, we don't put that
mantle on as our work mantra.
We facilitate the genius that'sin our collective communities
to excellence those of us who dothe work well.
Relationships precedeinnovation.
I don't know how many timeswe've heard derivatives on that
(28:54):
theme.
Elevating student voice tocontribute to anti-racist policy
.
We absolutely believe that whatwe collect at CEE on the
student side provides thoseopportunities in spades and it
was great to hear Lori line thatout the same way I might with
another client.
So lots of connections toformer podcast guests, the
anti-racist work, the DEI work.
I thought a lot about whatAaron Jones has had to say on
(29:17):
earlier episodes.
I thought about what RandyRussell and his students from
Freeman had to say aboutelevating student voice and
Aaron Christopher and our goodfriend Eric Sabota, the
superintendent up in ReardonSchool District, on how they're
using deep listening to elevatestudent voice.
So again, lots and lots ofcommon threads.
Leadership is a conversationagain taken right out of the
(29:37):
Chuck Salina and Suzanne GertzPowerless to Powerful framework.
We talk a lot about the powerof one-on-ones.
Again, some of our favoritepodcast guests and colleagues,
chuck Salina and Suzanne Gertz,really doing remarkable work
with their tried and truetransformation framework Listen
more, talk less.
I'm not necessarily modelingthat right now, but the path for
(29:58):
leaders is laid out if you hearit.
Just love the cultivate,elevate, innovate mantra.
And high school diploma.
The high school diploma iswhere potential starts, man.
I think if we could craft abumper sticker from this episode
and get that in front of everysingle educator, that might make
a difference.
School boards need to beeducated because, after all,
(30:19):
they are the folks who make thedecision to hire the leader that
they hire.
So getting over some potentialaversions or biases around
leaders of color, female leaders, that starts with who we elect.
So get out there and votepeople, and who are you going to
tap on the shoulder next?
I thought a lot about my ownprincipal mentor, rick Linehan.
I became a principal because ofRick's belief in me as a
(30:42):
20-something-year-old guy in1997.
If he liked you, he called youcoach.
He said, coach, you need to bea principal.
Really, I need to be aprincipal and it was just a
great reminder that we all standon the shoulders of those
giants that just make that timefor us.
I love what Lori had to sayabout leaders making people feel
seen and the whole thing reallyunderscored for me what we
(31:02):
encounter every single time wewrap one of these episodes.
There are a few things thatmatter in the transformative
process.
We measure those 11 domains atCEE and we study those 23
characteristics and conditionsinside of our outlier study.
So, lori, while you covered alot of profound and important
ground, I think this is going tobe a real winner for our guests
.
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:22):
Wow, you make what I sound way better than how
I said it.
Erich Bolz (31:26):
So no, I don't.
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:29):
I just need to take you with me wherever I go.
Erich Bolz (31:33):
That could probably be arranged.
That would be, yeah, cause.
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:36):
I'm listening to you speak.
I'm like holy cow, that soundsfantastic, but uh, yeah.
So thank you, Thanks forletting me be here.
I mean, talking about thisschool district is like one of
my favorite things.
I love this place.
Eric Price (31:48):
Well, congratulations again on being
the 2024, you know, soup of theyear.
Is there a next step for you?
What do you do from here?
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:58):
Gosh, that's a great question.
I haven't reached 100% yet.
You know, I've got about 8% togo and then we'll see what
happens.
But until every kid crossesthat stage, my mission is not
complete.
Eric Price (32:08):
Lori, thank you so much.
So many things.
Like Bo said, it is really amasterclass.
There are so many boulders thatyou really addressed in here
that a leader could chew onreally for months just thinking
about one of those things.
So, thank you again.
Lots of great things to thinkabout.
Erich Bolz (32:25):
So fantastic to have you on the show, and thanks to
all of you for listening intoday.
You can find this episode andmore anywhere you listen to your
favorite podcast or visit usonline at effectivenessorg.
Until next time.
This has been Outliers inEducation.
Ad (32:43):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive change inyour school or district, take a
moment to visit CEE, the Centerfor Educational Effectiveness,
at effectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools effectivenessorg.
Thank you.
What does it take to be thebest in education?
Well, that's been our entirefocus here since episode one on
Outliers in Education, and todaywe're talking to a leader who
knows firsthand.
Stay tuned, and we'll ask thatquestion of the 2024 Washington
State Superintendent of the Yearherself.
Ad (00:37):
I think we really need to change how we look at what we do
in schools.
Everything that we do aseducators, it just comes back to
people.
Dr. Laurie Dent (00:45):
I love it, even when it's hard, especially when
it's hard.
Ad (00:48):
Ultimately.
I mean, this is about what'sbest for kids.
Eric Price (00:53):
Hey everybody, Eric Price here, along with my friend
Eric Bowles from the Center forEducational Effectiveness, and
we are going for gold today.
You know, Bowlesy, it's nicewhen you're a hardworking,
bordering on overwhelmededucator, just to get a little
pat on the back every now andthen, isn't it?
Do you have any trophies inyour trophy case that you
remember really?
Erich Bolz (01:12):
stoked your fires Not too many since third grade
EP, but I was named about adecade ago as my university's
alumni of the year and you know,given I think all of us have a
bit of imposter syndrome, justto be considered and then
reading all the other people onthe list, it was, it was really
quite an enormous honor.
(01:33):
Wow, that's impressive.
Eric Price (01:35):
It's a little known fact.
Well, now it's going to belargely known.
I think one of my like, I'vegot some educational awards, but
one of my memorable awards Ithink I was in the sixth grade
and I got a best of battingaverage trophy.
It was the first trophy I evergot.
That's all I've got Bowles.
Seriously, that's reallyimpressive.
Erich Bolz (01:55):
Well, you peaked in sixth grade.
I think that's nothing to writehome about.
Eric Price (02:00):
Well, today on the show we've got a leader who took
down one of the highest awardsin the land when it comes to
education.
She's been at the helm of theSumner-Bonnie Lake School
District for seven now going oneight years but she's worked in
just about every other role inthe district over the past 25
years.
She recently spearheaded ahugely successful 100%
(02:20):
graduation campaign and iswidely recognized as a
transformative leader.
These are just a few of thethings that led to her being
named the 2024 Washington StateSuperintendent of the Year, and,
on top of that, she somehowmanaged to complete the Boston
Marathon, not once, but twice.
Dr Lori Dent, welcome to theshow.
Dr. Laurie Dent (02:42):
Oh, I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Eric Price (02:44):
Well, that's impressive, like seriously the
marathon, I think Bolsey and Ibarely make it up like an
escalator that's powered.
So kudos to you.
Dr. Laurie Dent (02:54):
Yeah, thanks, that was quite an accomplishment
.
Eric Price (02:56):
Well, congratulations on Soup of the
Year.
That's a huge deal.
They singled you out of 295other soups across the state and
it says here that you're onlythe 10th female superintendent
to be so honored.
What's that been like for you?
Dr. Laurie Dent (03:11):
Well, so here's the best thing about winning
that award I work with the mostincredible people you will ever
meet and talk about baseball.
I feel like I'm a World Seriescoach, just kind of hanging out
in the dugout watching my teamhit home runs like one after
another.
And I'm a like a World Seriescoach, just kind of hanging out
in the dugout watching my teamhit home runs like one after
another.
And I'm telling you I know whatit's like to strike out.
So when you hit those home runsit feels pretty good and you
(03:35):
know they.
They are just like thesewell-seasoned, well-tuned
athletes that don't back downfrom a challenge.
Well-tuned athletes that don'tback down from a challenge.
They take a fast pitch like youwouldn't believe, and I'm
telling you it is paying offdividends for kids.
I love the work that we do andI love serving this community,
but I'm telling you, this teamthat I'm on is just incredible.
Eric Price (04:00):
Well, you can just keep going with those baseball
analogies.
When you got this award, didthat open up any doors for you
at all?
The soup of the year.
Dr. Laurie Dent (04:10):
Well, so let's see, it happened in November and
, hey, it opened this door.
Eric Price (04:17):
Drop the mic right there.
Yes, done, yeah, exactly,that's all we need, right?
Exactly, podcast over yes.
Dr. Laurie Dent (04:23):
But it's opened doors for me to continue to
tell our story of what'shappening in this school
district, because I'm tellingyou it's hard being a
superintendent right now.
I've told people it's not awalk in the park, it's like a
marathon through a maze and youare navigating things constantly
.
You know, to tell the story ofthe great work that happens in
(04:44):
this district every day for kidshas been the best door opened
possible.
Eric Price (04:48):
Very cool.
Erich Bolz (04:49):
I want to piggyback on something you just said there
, because I think it reallyneeds to be sussed out a bit.
When you said it's hard being asuperintendent right now, I
don't think it matters whetheryou're in Pasco, where I'm
coming to you from today, or inSumner-Bonnie Lake.
I would say the same thingprobably applies across the
board to principals what do yousee as our path back to maybe a
(05:09):
little bit more palatable,normal, predictable role for
educational leaders?
Dr. Laurie Dent (05:13):
Oh, that's a great question because, you're
right, it's challenging being aneducator.
The kids that came back to uspost-pandemic are different than
the kids that left us, andwhat's been exciting and
challenging in the same vein ishow to respond to that.
And what we've done is we'vejust decided to take this
future-focused approach wherewe've embraced what's different
(05:38):
and we lead differently.
We're leading for a future thatis exciting and unknown, I mean
.
But getting back to normal isjust.
It's like what we do Educatorsare.
They're just, they aresuperheroes, right, they can
have a fire drill one minute,they can go to lunch recess and
teach a lesson in math, all in,like you know, the span of a
couple hours.
But really getting back tonormal for us was just building
(06:02):
back in those routines for kids,responding to all sorts of
issues ranging from mentalhealth to a skill deficit.
You know, we we just wanted tobe really attentive and
cultivate great relationshipsagain with with our kids.
So, you know, I wish I hadsomething like marvelous and
like this secret recipe, buttruly it starts with
relationships and connectingwith students and really getting
(06:25):
to know who they are again.
Eric Price (06:27):
When you take a look at change and you look at
there's like systems change.
But you talked about some ofthat relationship piece.
So when you look at the cultureand then you look at that,
systems change, there's a lot ofthings that go on.
That's a very complicatedprocess.
What things go through yourhead when you say, okay, like if
I'm going to really change asystem or a culture?
(06:47):
These are the things that Ithink about.
What goes through your head?
Dr. Laurie Dent (06:50):
Well, so you know, I've been in this district
.
I started in 98 as a teacherand then poof, here I am, right,
voila, I'm superintendent.
So I've seen a lot of changethroughout the district and just
over time, man, those bigboulders boy, they sure come at
you and sometimes you don't evenexpect it right, like our
demographics.
(07:10):
We had to respond to ourdemographics.
That sort of snuck up on us.
They were invisible to us for awhile because when you get
comfortable, sometimes you don'tsee what's right in front of
you.
Sometimes you don't see what'sright in front of you.
And we had some real issues withequity and had to respond to
those in a pretty critical waywhere we had to change a lot of
(07:33):
our systems, instructionally,how we respond to students,
culturally.
And in this district, all of asudden, it's like we woke up one
morning and you know we weren't93% white anymore, we were 60,
like 68, 67% white.
And we had to be reallyresponsive to that and elevate
(07:55):
students, I mean like maintainhigh expectations and standards
and add on to what was alreadyworking.
But we did so in a way thatreally built in that why and we
put faces to stories and meaningbehind issues and I mean really
gave it a purpose, so thatpeople didn't think that it was
(08:15):
like some random act ofbrilliance.
It was truly what this cultureneeded to change in a positive
way, so that students wouldn'tfeel invisible in our classrooms
, where they were honored andcelebrated and valued for who
they were.
I mean, that's probably likethat wasn't just a boulder, that
was like a what's bigger than aboulder.
Erich Bolz (08:36):
A big boulder, a big boulder.
Dr. Laurie Dent (08:38):
But it's been amazing to see the
transformation since we likejust launched that.
I mean it, it's been awesome.
I mean our Hispanic studentsare graduating like crazy.
I mean just knocking it off thecharts, like and it's just been
fun to to see students who oncereally felt marginalized like
(08:59):
take ownership of their schoolsand yeah, it's been awesome.
Eric Price (09:03):
And was that a difficult movement for adults in
your system?
Dr. Laurie Dent (09:07):
Yeah, I think it was difficult for all of us.
It was something we weren'tused to.
Teachers like routine,educators like routine, and when
you interrupt that system thatyou're talking about and
introduce change, that's why ithas to be done so delicately and
so carefully, so that it sticksand there's sustainability with
it.
But, yeah, it was tough for allof us.
(09:28):
We love kids in this district,like everybody does, but when
you're asked to do somethingdifferently, you want to do it
right, you want to do it well,and I work with a lot of
educators that areperfectionists right, they want
to be perfect.
So yeah it was like oh boy, okay, Something new that I know is
good, but how do I do this?
Erich Bolz (09:50):
Well, you know, everything you say about your
work really resonates with me,lori.
I was assistant superintendentfor quite a while at Richland
School District and we saw thesame thing happening there.
I think I was fortunate to kindof be out in front of it.
It's like whoa, we're rapidlybecoming more poor than we're
becoming anything else and,given it was a fairly affluent
community, a huge shift in whatneeded to happen.
(10:11):
Can you share with us maybe acouple of specific initiatives
or tasks that folks took on thatyou know made that ultimate
difference?
Yeah absolutely.
Dr. Laurie Dent (10:21):
First, let me talk about our community
partnerships, because sometimesI'm not sure that we always give
our community the credit theydeserve.
When we have an issue in thisdistrict, we invite our
community in to help us solve it, and they were a critical
factor in helping us with all ofthis work related to equity.
You know from our parents whohave students with special needs
(10:43):
, to families of students withcolor, you name it.
We invited our community in tohelp us sit at the table, have a
conversation and figure it out.
What do we need to do as adistrict to be better for your
child, our student?
And you know they gave us ideaslike and this sounds so simple,
(11:20):
but where is my child seen inthe hallway?
Where are they seen in yourlibraries?
When we send information home,how many languages are we
sending it home in?
We've purchased or that we'renow using?
Because of their influence andtheir input?
You know, when we talk aboutchange, it's like involve the
people first, who the changedirectly impacts.
And I'm telling you, when weinvited our community in, what a
fantastic partnership.
We even invited in healthworkers.
(11:42):
Are we missing anything interms of physical or mental
health with students?
And from there we built juststronger, more robust systems of
support for mental health.
I mean, equity has so manyfaces to it, right?
I mean, that's probably one ofthe highest leverage strategies
(12:04):
we used was inviting ourcommunity in so they also knew
what we were doing.
You know, we wanted parents andfamilies to see what was
happening behind the curtainwhen how we build systems to
make schools stronger forstudents.
And you know one of ourstudents in particular, I
remember a Hispanic female.
At the time we were losing ourHispanic females like
(12:33):
exponentially faster than otherdemographics.
And you know we we got herconnected.
Well, first it was throughelevating her just as a human
being and a person in ourschools and then cultivating a
relationship with her.
And then through innovation, wewere offering these new
programs to reach more students.
And she wanted to be a teacher,had no idea until we got to
(12:56):
know her as a person.
We connected her with a program.
Um, long story short firstgraduate in her family, wow.
Uh high first high schoolgraduate in her family.
And she has two youngersiblings in our school, a school
district, that are now lookingup to her and looking forward to
their graduation date, becausewe are the home of 100%
(13:17):
graduation, right, and that'sour goal and that's our mission.
But to watch her graduate, towatch this family just break
down and cry, I mean it actuallymakes me emotional right now,
because I remember that theywere so proud of her and I just
think that we've not onlychanged her life but we've
changed the trajectory of thatentire family.
(13:39):
High school diploma I'm tellingyou it is a powerful piece of
paper.
Erich Bolz (13:44):
I think what gets to all of us as public educators
if you're able to stay in andweather.
Some of the really difficultaspects of the work are just
those stories when you know thatyou've made an impact on
someone's generationaltrajectory.
There's not too many jobs inthe world where you get to come
home and say you know, gosh, Idid that today.
Oh yeah.
So thank you for sharing thatand so many of the things that
(14:04):
you talked about challenging thestatus quo family atmosphere we
really saw in our outlier studyat CEE.
We also know that Sumner BonneyLake is a great client of CEE.
Sumner Bonnie Lake is a greatclient of CEE and generally I
don't like to go the infomercialroute, but you know, when you
talked about culturalresponsiveness, that's one of
the 11 characteristics that wewe help districts measure.
(14:25):
Did you see anything in thedata, or did you use the data as
a catalyst for change?
Dr. Laurie Dent (14:30):
We absolutely did.
We put our CEE data in front ofI call it, the superintendent's
advisory student council, whereI bring in high school students
to help me solve issues at thedistrict level, and we were
drafting a new anti-racistpolicy for the entire district.
So I was talking to the schoolboard and I said, hey, why don't
(14:51):
I put this in front of somekids and get their input?
Because, again, they're theones that are really the
recipients of this policy andwho it will help.
But before I did that, I usedour CEE data to show them hey,
here's an issue that we'retrying to, at the district level
, solve and strengthen a systemthat really needs some kind of
(15:13):
bones behind it.
So we use that data with ourstudent council and I'm telling
you the information that theycould extrapolate from the data
that they saw.
You know whether kids of colorfelt safe.
We have critical conversationsabout race.
I'm trying to think of whatexactly the questions were and
(15:36):
they were like, yeah, we've gota problem, and what they did
from that data, from theirconversation, is helped us
further develop the anti-racistpolicy that we just passed last
year.
And like kudos to them, becausethose aren't easy conversations
for adults to have much lesskids to have, but when they
could sort of anchor themselvesto the student data, that
(15:59):
student data is.
It's fantastic.
It gives you so much goodinformation about what kids are
thinking.
At the time they were like, ohokay, well, this is coming from
kids, not adults.
So, you know, maybe this, maybewhat I'm feeling, is real.
So, yeah, we love that data.
Eric Price (16:15):
Well, it's time for us to take a short break.
Stick around, because we've gota lot more to talk about with
Washington State.
Superintendent of the.
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learning like never before.
But who has the time?
Now you do, thanks to the wholeeducator series an online SEL
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Erich Bolz (16:48):
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Erich Bolz (17:07):
He's telling us strategies that we can implement
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Check out the whole educatorseries online SEL training
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That's effectivenessorg slashworkshops.
Eric Price (17:30):
Welcome back to Outliers in Education.
Today, we're joined by the 2024Washington State Superintendent
of the Year herself, Dr LoriDent.
Now, Lori, when you talk aboutthat 100% graduation rate and
you talk about some of theseanti-racist policies in
conjunction with some of thatgraduation, what part does
(17:50):
listening play to that?
Like, how do you listen to yourfolks?
Dr. Laurie Dent (18:17):
Like, how do you listen to your folks?
Because, like, if you would saystudent voice to me, you know,
even five years ago I have sucha influence to create change.
But you hear stories and youcan connect with people in a way
that you really can't if youdon't listen to what they're
saying.
It's as easy and as challengingas being intentional about
having conversations with people, whether they're students,
staff, parents, family members,community partners but it's
(18:41):
carving out time to haveconversations, to hear the
experiences that are happeningaround you.
When you do, it's very honoringto people to just allow them to
talk and to share what they'veexperienced.
When you listen to people likeDr Larry Nyland taught me early
(19:01):
on listen more, talk less.
And when you do, the path ofwhat you need to do as a leader
is laid out for you.
If you just hear it, do youthink most?
Eric Price (19:11):
leaders listen Laurie.
Dr. Laurie Dent (19:13):
Well, it's a skill that you have to work at
and it's a muscle that you Imean that you really do have to
cultivate, because I thinkleaders, we're solution slayers
right, we fix problems Right.
Eric Price (19:25):
Right.
Dr. Laurie Dent (19:26):
It has transformed my leadership.
When you are present withpeople and you just listen to
what their heart is telling youand you see the tears on their
face or the smile, theexcitement, and you can be in
that moment with them toexperience what they're feeling.
And then, if you use it to makeyour systems even stronger, wow
(19:48):
, I'm telling you.
That's like an ownership thatthey feel and it resonates with
them.
It's like, yeah, I value whatyou're saying and here's how.
Eric Price (19:58):
And did you do you think that that listening muscle
really helped you in that ahundred percent graduation
campaign that you have initiated?
Dr. Laurie Dent (20:06):
Oh for, sure, I'm a big believer in high
school diploma.
You know, like many of us onthis screen, I've got a lot of
degrees, a lot of certificatesthat could probably paper a wall
right.
But the one that matters themost and actually it's right
there on my desk it diploma Ihave in my office is my high
school diploma, because it trulyis where it's where potential
(20:28):
starts and I mean that's our job, right is to give kids a
promising future full ofpotential.
I mean that's the exciting partof what we do.
It's kind of like I'm going togive you the tool.
Now go do something awesomewith your life.
Eric Price (20:44):
Yeah, how did you frame that in that 100%
graduation campaign?
How did that work?
What were some of the nuts andbolts and stories that went
along with that?
Dr. Laurie Dent (20:53):
Well, we were missing kids.
I mean, like I think when westarted I was over, like I think
I was around 112 kids thatdidn't graduate in that class.
Eric Price (21:00):
Out of how many.
Dr. Laurie Dent (21:01):
Well, that was about 84%.
And then, you know, when Italked to the entire staff in
August, I'm like, how is that OKwith us for one hundred and
eleven kids, or one hundred andtwelve kids, not to make it to
graduation?
And here's what I think.
I don't think they'd ever beentold that, because I think for a
lot of them, they teach theirclasses, they do a fantastic job
(21:22):
but it wasn't real until I puta number with it.
Classes, they do a fantasticjob, but it wasn't real until I
put a number with it.
And then every year it was thesame thing, and then last year I
think, we missed it by about 33kids one classroom.
So it's like, take that oneclassroom.
What are we going to do?
Well, we're going to try newthings, we're going to innovate,
right.
We cultivate, we elevate, weinnovate.
I mean, that's what we do right.
(21:50):
It's like it caught fire becauseeveryone in that football
stadium that we were with had ahigh school diploma and they
knew.
They knew that that's where itstarted.
That's what you need to get ajob.
Not everybody's going to go tocollege or the university, but
you can do something if you havea high school diploma.
And when I told them about thekids we were missing, they were
like, oh, like kids don'tgraduate and we just built in
this I mean real meaning behindwhat it means to have a high
(22:13):
school diploma.
I even put out this challenge inthe district for people to go
dig out their high schooldiplomas and put them in their
office.
They sent me pictures withtheir high school diploma.
Like there were times we haddistrict competitions.
You know if X amount of highschool teachers sent their
diplomas in, or maintenanceworkers, or you know they got
(22:34):
donuts or cookies or something,but so we had a lot of fun with
it.
But we also made it meaningfuland impactful and people around
here.
It's like that's what we standfor.
We want every single student tocross that stage and graduate.
Yeah, I mean, who are we goingto leave behind, right, like
who's not going to graduate?
Erich Bolz (22:50):
Yeah, an 85% graduation rate sounds great,
unless your kid's in that 15.
That's always been a mantra ofmine.
Hey, switching gears slightly,we're a little bit north of.
One in four superintendents inWashington state identify as
female.
It's a bit better than thenational average.
I think it's still a questionof is it enough progress and
what can we collectively do tofacilitate more women leaders
(23:11):
reaching the pinnacle of ourprofession?
Dr. Laurie Dent (23:13):
It's always great when we can talk about
females in leadership positions.
I mean, we make up 75% of theeducational staff, right?
And yet we make up just afraction of the superintendency.
And boy, there's so many layersto that right Of why and how
that happens.
But I think, honestly, we'vegot to start educating our
school boards.
They're the ones that hiresuperintendents and they tend to
(23:34):
hire they tend to hire males,and it's putting female leaders
in positions of influence andchange, so that they can really
show their leadership skills andwhat it takes to create, you
know, systematic change.
But, honestly, I think there'sa lot of work that needs to be
done with school boards todispel some myths and a
narrative that's out there aboutwomen leading massive
(23:55):
organizations.
I mean, I'm one of the largestemployers in Pierce County.
We're like a major corporationhere, right.
We're not a schoolhouse.
I mean, I got a $200 millionoperating budget, right.
Eric Price (24:05):
Laurie, if you were going to give a young woman some
advice that was going into thatleadership what would you say
to her?
Dr. Laurie Dent (24:12):
Probably one of the first pieces of advice I
would give her is to surroundherself with the best people
possible and really your outsideinfluences become what you
portray on the outside to people.
You know the people that arearound you.
They influence you greatly, youknow, you internalize it and
then all of a sudden you startsounding like it.
So be careful and verythoughtful about who you
(24:33):
surround yourself with.
Find people that are smarterthan I am, that have done you
know bigger and greater things,so that I can learn from them.
Eric Price (24:39):
That is not a hard ask for Bowles and me when we
get people that are smarter.
Dr. Laurie Dent (24:44):
Oh my gosh, we just find anybody in the room.
You guys are funny, I mean.
But seriously right, likesmarter people will make you
smarter and some people shy awayfrom that.
But I'm telling you, you findthe smartest person in the room
and you go, develop arelationship and you figure out
what they're doing.
So many talented women inWashington state.
Erich Bolz (25:02):
I've always said my whole life if I felt like I was
the smartest person in the room,I needed to leave the room.
I wasn't in the right room.
A quick follow-up what otherplatforms might we lever access
to bring more attention to thisissue?
Recruiting, mentoring, creatingthe conditions where taking
time off to be with little onesisn't a seven-year black mark on
(25:24):
a resume?
Kai, I mean, you identifiedtheir layers.
Where would we start and whatwould be those impact points?
Dr. Laurie Dent (25:31):
So it's going to start with me, and it's me
knowing my staff, knowingteachers in the buildings.
Who are you going to tap on theshoulder next?
Somebody tapped me on theshoulder and I still remember
that person to this day, butthey saw something in me that
they believed in.
So it's going to start with whoI am as a leader, and am I
looking for potential, notperfection, but am I looking to
(25:52):
see who in this district isleading in a way that fits our
core values and how we wouldwant our students to learn?
Laurie who was that that gaveyou the tap?
Yeah, her name was Mary LouisePeterson.
She was the executive directorof HR.
I just finished my MBA andthought, hey, I might give the
whole corporate thing a shot,you know.
And she was like uh-uh.
(26:14):
She's like, have you everthought about being an
administrator?
I was like, what do you meanLike an administrator, like the
principal?
And she was like yeah.
And I was like, well, no.
And she, yeah.
She sat me down and we had along talk and, lo and behold, a
few months later I was startingmy program at the University of
Washington.
Ad (26:33):
Wow.
Dr. Laurie Dent (26:36):
And it was really because she knew of my
work.
She didn't really know me, butshe was fantastic at just kind
of making you feel seen and Ifelt honored that she would even
like talk to me.
Like holy smokes, that's MaryLouise Peterson.
And then I saw her do thatseveral times to other women and
I thought, yeah, that's.
It starts with yourself as aleader, recognizing what's
(26:57):
around you and really developing.
Asking first, ask a questionSome people don't even.
You know, like me, I didn'teven think about it.
And then you know you go fromthere, but it means I don't lead
from behind my desk, that I'mout and about and I'm talking to
principals and then I'll askthem who are you tapping?
Who are you tapping on theshoulder to?
You know continue this sort oflegacy of excellence that I
(27:19):
inherited from Dr.
Eric Price (27:20):
Eisenman.
Dr. Laurie Dent (27:20):
Wow, wow yeah.
Eric Price (27:22):
Wow, Lori, there is so much there, like some of
these themes about asking,listening, being seen,
relationships and our goodfriend Bolzy.
Now his job is to wrap this amasterclass in leadership.
So I think, if I were tosynthesize right off the bat, I
would say wow, there were somepretty incredible leadership
(27:50):
notions dropped.
Erich Bolz (27:52):
I'll extrapolate a little bit.
It's hard being asuperintendent right now.
I think it's hard.
Being a classroom teacher rightnow it's hard.
I think any station that youoccupy in public education is
just really hard.
Right now Things are differentpost-pandemic.
It requires a future-focusedapproach.
It requires leading andlearning differently.
Relationships with kids therearen't any secret recipes.
It starts with relationships.
We know that from our work inthe Outlier Study.
(28:12):
We also help you measure thatat CEE.
I loved what Lori had to sayabout really noticing the issues
with equity.
As your demographics change,you continue to operate in the
same way.
We're leaving folks behind.
I loved what she had to sayabout community leaders inviting
the community in to help solvethe issue.
We know from Heifetz's work inparticular, our role as adaptive
leaders is to facilitate change.
(28:34):
You know there is no.
Even though Lori, in her officefull of disclosure, has a
Wonder Woman costume hanging offof her door, we don't put that
mantle on as our work mantra.
We facilitate the genius that'sin our collective communities
to excellence those of us who dothe work well.
Relationships precedeinnovation.
I don't know how many timeswe've heard derivatives on that
(28:54):
theme.
Elevating student voice tocontribute to anti-racist policy
.
We absolutely believe that whatwe collect at CEE on the
student side provides thoseopportunities in spades and it
was great to hear Lori line thatout the same way I might with
another client.
So lots of connections toformer podcast guests, the
anti-racist work, the DEI work.
I thought a lot about whatAaron Jones has had to say on
(29:17):
earlier episodes.
I thought about what RandyRussell and his students from
Freeman had to say aboutelevating student voice and
Aaron Christopher and our goodfriend Eric Sabota, the
superintendent up in ReardonSchool District, on how they're
using deep listening to elevatestudent voice.
So again, lots and lots ofcommon threads.
Leadership is a conversationagain taken right out of the
(29:37):
Chuck Salina and Suzanne GertzPowerless to Powerful framework.
We talk a lot about the powerof one-on-ones.
Again, some of our favoritepodcast guests and colleagues,
chuck Salina and Suzanne Gertz,really doing remarkable work
with their tried and truetransformation framework Listen
more, talk less.
I'm not necessarily modelingthat right now, but the path for
(29:58):
leaders is laid out if you hearit.
Just love the cultivate,elevate, innovate mantra.
And high school diploma.
The high school diploma iswhere potential starts, man.
I think if we could craft abumper sticker from this episode
and get that in front of everysingle educator, that might make
a difference.
School boards need to beeducated because, after all,
(30:19):
they are the folks who make thedecision to hire the leader that
they hire.
So getting over some potentialaversions or biases around
leaders of color, female leaders, that starts with who we elect.
So get out there and votepeople, and who are you going to
tap on the shoulder next?
I thought a lot about my ownprincipal mentor, rick Linehan.
I became a principal because ofRick's belief in me as a
(30:42):
20-something-year-old guy in1997.
If he liked you, he called youcoach.
He said, coach, you need to bea principal.
Really, I need to be aprincipal and it was just a
great reminder that we all standon the shoulders of those
giants that just make that timefor us.
I love what Lori had to sayabout leaders making people feel
seen and the whole thing reallyunderscored for me what we
(31:02):
encounter every single time wewrap one of these episodes.
There are a few things thatmatter in the transformative
process.
We measure those 11 domains atCEE and we study those 23
characteristics and conditionsinside of our outlier study.
So, lori, while you covered alot of profound and important
ground, I think this is going tobe a real winner for our guests
.
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:22):
Wow, you make what I sound way better than how
I said it.
Erich Bolz (31:26):
So no, I don't.
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:29):
I just need to take you with me wherever I go.
Erich Bolz (31:33):
That could probably be arranged.
That would be, yeah, cause.
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:36):
I'm listening to you speak.
I'm like holy cow, that soundsfantastic, but uh, yeah.
So thank you, Thanks forletting me be here.
I mean, talking about thisschool district is like one of
my favorite things.
I love this place.
Eric Price (31:48):
Well, congratulations again on being
the 2024, you know, soup of theyear.
Is there a next step for you?
What do you do from here?
Dr. Laurie Dent (31:58):
Gosh, that's a great question.
I haven't reached 100% yet.
You know, I've got about 8% togo and then we'll see what
happens.
But until every kid crossesthat stage, my mission is not
complete.
Eric Price (32:08):
Lori, thank you so much.
So many things.
Like Bo said, it is really amasterclass.
There are so many boulders thatyou really addressed in here
that a leader could chew onreally for months just thinking
about one of those things.
So, thank you again.
Lots of great things to thinkabout.
Erich Bolz (32:25):
So fantastic to have you on the show, and thanks to
all of you for listening intoday.
You can find this episode andmore anywhere you listen to your
favorite podcast or visit usonline at effectivenessorg.
Until next time.
This has been Outliers inEducation.
Ad (32:43):
If you'd like to find out how to gather the data you need
to help drive positive change inyour school or district, take a
moment to visit CEE, the Centerfor Educational Effectiveness,
at effectivenessorg.
Better data, better decisions,better schools effectivenessorg.
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