May 1, 2025 • 46 mins
Chloe Szep has been accused of clickbaiting her audience after unveiling a major life announcement on her Instagram. JoJo Siwa and Kath Ebbs’ very public break up. Matt Zukowski opens up about his eggs-hausting Easter without Tammy… and our Friday debrief.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
Kate Torbert and coming up on today's show, Chloe zeb
is accused of clickbaiting her audience over a big life announcement,
Jojo Siwa and kath Eb's very public breakup, and our
Friday debrief. But first, Matsakowski has revealed. What he was
(00:22):
really doing on the Easter long weekend has been consuming
my thoughts ever since Demmi Hambro posted that she was
having this very wholesome Easter morning with her kids. They
were in their pj's, they were eating chocolate for breakfast,
and he was nowhere to be seen. Yeah. Well, it
turns out he was in Melbourne, like we thought, celebrating
with his family. So he shared a photo dump with
the caption All of this social activity is exhausting. What
(00:46):
a millennial play on words there. I actually thought he
might be having a dig at our podcast because he
posted his Easter snaps the day after we released our episode.
Is this play about us? I mean, I don't necessarily
think that that was a dig at us. Eating a
bit maybe I'm a bit sensitive one of Matt's relatives
did add a rather wholesome comment, saying, such a wonderful
(01:06):
celebration with beautiful friends Easter was special. I wonder if
it's difficult for Tammy to join the family celebrations in
Melbourne because she does have joint custody of her youngest
daughter Posey with Matt Paul. Do you think that's what's
the issue. Yeah, it's a hard one because at the
same time, Matt does have his own family in Melbourne
who might feel like they're missing out if he's always
(01:26):
on the Gold Coast with her and her extended family.
In relationships, it does need to be a bit of
give and take, but it does make a bit more
complex when you do have joint custody of a child.
I mean, it seems like Matt had a great weekend.
The photo dump included photos of him with his sister,
drinking champagne, a pig on a spit, hot cross buns,
and painted Easter eggs now. I have been keeping a
(01:48):
close eye on Mattzakowski's Instagram since he has returned from
his hiatus.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
He did another photo dump where he included photos of
him out for dinner with Tammy. She yeah pop up
a number of times. There weren't any couple photos, it
was just singular photos of Tammy. There was also a
photo of her on a flight, so he's clearly trying
to say, look, we are together. Yeah, he is dropping
it without making it too much of a big deal.
He's also revealed that he's being interviewed on Shameless Media's
(02:13):
Inherited podcast, which I was pretty surprised about. To me,
he doesn't really fit the mold of who they generally
speak to, but they're trying to get to Tammy maybe.
I mean. I have really enjoyed some of the most
recent conversations on Inherited, particularly with Michelle Andrews and her mother.
I was in tears in the car listening to that.
I have been able to listen to it. Such a
(02:34):
sad story but also such a beautiful one the way
that they were able to share it. I also loved
the conversation with Jesse Stevens, particularly about her relationship with
her husband Luca, because I mean, Shameless put that out
just as all of the shit was hitting the fan, yeah,
which I thought was very unwarranted. I mean, we have
spoken about it in depth on our subs channel. Jesse
Stevens and Meer Friedman actually appeared on the Stellar podcast
(02:57):
the other week, and that was a really interesting listen.
It's clear that they're trying to do a bit of
pr around the situation because me and Freedman just disappeared
off the podcast. Yeah, I mean, majority of the conversation
was about their show, well, the second season of Strife,
which is about to come out. I kind of wanted
more of a tidbit about their working relationship and how
more so how they go as mother and daughter. They've
(03:18):
spoken about it so many times, like how much more
can they say? They obviously have to say, oh, we love.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I mean, I think Jesse made a good point. She's
grown up as an identical twin. She doesn't really know
what it's like to not work with family and be
around family. You don't have boundaries when you're an identical sibling.
Getting back to Matt, though, I am very intrigued to
hear his insights because Inherited as a podcast where I
feel like it's quite deep, and I mean, I don't
mean to be unfair about Matt, but I don't know
(03:44):
if he has quite the personality to do well on
a show like that. It's sort of like when Tammy
Hembro was interviewed by Mea Friedman on No Filter. Again,
we're bringing up Mea. But yeah, you know when they
don't quite go into it enough and you're like, you
hope for more, but it's not very insight. We might
see a different side of Matt. I think this is
a great pr opportunity for him to tap into that
(04:07):
audience that are a little bit, you know, not his
biggest fans, and I wouldn't be surprised if he opens
up more about his fertility. Well, yeah, it definitely sounds
like it's an opportunity for people to see another side
of him. I know we all have a bit of
a laugh about the Matt and Tammy situation because it
does come across as a bit of a circus at times,
just because of the public nature of it. But the
(04:27):
intense interest in your relationship, particularly for two young people,
would be very tough to deal with, and I sometimes
feel like we underestimate the strain that it would put
on both of them. Yeah, it would be very difficult.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
And then I go into the office, see the girls
and start my day with back to back meetings.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Chloe Zepp has been accused of clickbaiting her audience after
unveiling a major life announcement on her Instagram. The og
influencers shared a photo of her pregnant with the caption
big Announcement. Now, many people presumed she was announcing her
third pregnancy, but Kate, that wasn't the case. No, Chloe
in fact was announcing that she's closing down her active
(05:09):
web brand ZEP. But you wouldn't have known that unless
you got down to the eighth line of the caption.
And let's be real, most people are scrolling on Instagram
and don't even read the captions, let alone a whole
slab of texts. It was clearly a way for her
to attract attention by following up that photo. Definitely so
Chloe started out by writing big announcement. Hello, It's been
a while since I have shared on here, but there's
(05:31):
some big changes happening in my life. I have been
contemplating in prayer for a good year now to gain
clarity and direction, and big decisions always scare me. But
with God, I know that he holds the whole picture
and I just have to work it out peace. By piece.
She then went on to say it is with sadness
and peace that I laid down ZEP for a little while.
I mean, I didn't find this news particularly shocking. I
(05:54):
can't say that there's been much hype around this active
web brand. The last time I really heard about ze
was when Chloe Zepp was being canceled over her stance
on vaccinations. When people were burning her Yeah, literally on TikTok.
People were burning her active worth, throwing in the bin.
They were putting masking tape over Zepp to conceal the brand. Yeah,
(06:14):
I mean, I'm surprised it lasted six years. It was
launched back in twenty nineteen. In saying that though there
were a lot of comments about how people were quite
devastated that the active wear line was being shut down
because people were raving about the quality of it, I
think it comes down to her been quite an irrelevant influencer.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, ever since all of the drama in twenty twenty,
we haven't heard much from her. And even back in
twenty twenty, I was surprised she was such a big
deal because essentially she was known as Shiny Grimman's best friend.
I mean, I think that Mitch Orvil's presence also helped her.
People loved tuning in to see her and Mitch's dynamic,
and they had really cute kids as well. But it
just shows that if you're not going to continually engage
(06:54):
with your audience and put out new content, you can
become completely irrelevant space of a couple of years and
your businesses will fail. I mean, back to these clickbait allegations.
One person wrote, clickbaiting your followers by making it seem
like you're pregnant not a good take, which got one
hundred and sixty nine likes. Another said wait, guys, is
she pregnant? And someone else added, wait, wait, I'm confused.
(07:16):
Are you pregnant or is the photo referencing being a
mum to the boys already? If so, congratulations, and Chloe
ended up replying saying not pregnant, but all old ZEP
photo shoots. I'm sorry is if she doesn't have any
other images from past photo shoots to you, she knew
exactly what she was doing, I mean to be fair,
it was a photo dump, so there were a range
of photos, but the pregnancy photo shoot one was the
(07:37):
first photo on the carousel and it's been juxtapositioned with
the word big announcement. Yeah exactly. Chloe did try and
clear things up on her story. She ended up sharing
the post on her story and wrote, sorry if you
thought I was pregnant old pick from a ZEP photo
shoot when I had Sonny Bunny in my belly. I
think what also added to the confusion was her very
lengthy statement where she spoke about motherhood throughout it. She
(07:59):
said she no longer had time to pursue ZEP, and
while she didn't know what was next, she had peace
knowing that motherhood is in her heart and she was
raising her boys. I mean this made many people assume
that she was giving up ZEP now that she was
having a third baby. One other thing that stood out
to me about this announcement was how much Chloe reference God.
So she and her fiance Mitchell Orvill recently found God,
(08:22):
and she finished up her announcement saying, I look forward
to sharing more of my journey again as I continue
to navigate with God. Do we think that possibly she's
continuing either paid or unpaid work within the church, because
I'm getting ultra confused how these people continue to make
money when they I mean, it's clear that they're not
doing many brand deals. It's not like Instagram is generating
(08:43):
her an income anymore. And now she's dropping the business
where she had employees. They recently moved into an office
as well, so it seemed like they were trying to
take it to the next level. Yeah, she had six
employees based on the Gold Coast. There are a lot
of questions and speculation growing about what is going on
with the zepp Vials, and there's been a lot of
rumors about a potential split between Mitch's parents, Mark and
(09:05):
Sharon Orville. People are questioning is the family undergoing financial hardship.
Chloe's mum actually added fuel to the fire by commenting,
Oh Chloe, with a crying face, so proud of my
baby girl. You are a wonderful mother and it's commendable
that you are choosing to spend this precious time with
your beautiful boys. Unfortunately, over the years, several people have
taken advantage of your kindness and generosity. But I'm excited
(09:27):
for your bright future with your fiance and children. Love
you so so so much. Ow So she's dropping the
bomb in the comment section that there is more to
this closure than simply Chloe wanting to spend more time
with her kids. Hmm, she is. Do we think that
there's investors involved who have screwed her over? Or is
she pointing to family members? It's very up in the
(09:47):
air who she's actually referencing. Yeah, it's very vague. I
wonder if Chloe was like, oh, for fuck sake, mom,
don't write that, or potentially she wanted her mum to
drop the bomb like this and level a few of
these accusations at people and then play it off as oh, Mom,
why did you write that? Because surely if this was
some information that you didn't want out there, you would
(10:10):
delete the comment pretty swiftly. I don't even know where
to begin.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I'm filming this in a complete state of shock, which
I know is probably distressing and is probably giving go.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Have a sleep. This week, all anyone can talk about
is Jojo Siwah and Kath Ebb's very public breakup. The
former Dance Mum star has just spent the last twenty
days in the UK celebrity Big Brother House, growing increasingly
close to housemate and former Love Islander Chris Hughes Or
while her Aussie partner Kath watches on from home. So
(10:54):
before we dive into the drama, let's talk about the
key players here. The first is, of course, Jojo cwe Now.
She is a twenty one year old American singer and
actress who found fame on reality show Dance Mums when
she was only twelve years old. She's also very famous
among Jen Alfers, who she made millions off through her
very successful air Bow Empire. Now, in recent years, she
(11:15):
has been desperately trying to cross over to a more
adult audience, and her rebrand has been compared to Miley
Cyrus's Wrecking Ball era because she dramatically tried to change
up this very wholesome, kid friendly persona to a much
edgier and more rebellious one.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
She's also been called a professional rage baita and her
rebrand was deemed as very cring. She copped a lot
of criticism online for it last year, and in twenty
twenty one, she made headlines when she announced that she
identified as a lesbian. Now, in November last year, while
she was in Australia for the TikTok Awards, Jojo met
our very own Kath Ebbs.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Kath is an actor, presenter DJ and content creator fun Fact.
They also appeared as a trainer on the Kick apps
and with a firm non binary character on Ossie TV
show Neighbors. Many people also may have come across Cath
in Abby Chatfield's content as the pair are very good friends.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Kath and Jojo instantly hit it off and fell in
love very quickly. They have been dating for around four
months now. Then there is Chris Hughes. I would like
to describe him as Love Ireland Royalty because he appeared
on series three back in twenty seventeen where he briefly
dated Olivia Atwood. Well, they were actually on a TV
(12:29):
show together and they had to pull the pin on
the show. I think it was like two episodes in
because they broke up. I am actually a big fan
of Chris Hughes. I loved him on that series of
Love Island. See. I feel like he hasn't really been
discussed much in this story. When I've heard people on
podcasts or in the media talking about it, he seems
to be omitted. But I feel like it's really important
to know a bit more about his background. I mean,
(12:51):
he dated Jesse Nelson from Little Mix in twenty eighteen
and they actually split up in early twenty twenty, so
a two year relationship there. It is interesting because maybe
he has a bit of a time for famous singers. Now.
Chris is thirty two years old and he has been
working as a horse racing presenter in recent times. I
feel like his age has been thrown around a lot
because he is eleven years older than Jojo Siwah, and
(13:13):
people seem to be making a very big deal about that.
We need to remember though, she is overage because I've
seen the word groomer being tossed around.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And for Jojo, even though she is just twenty one,
she is wise beyond her years because she's been in
the industry for a very long time. She's not your
typical twenty one year old. Now that we are all
across the main players, let's dive into what has gone
down whilst Jojo has been in the UK Big Brother House,
because during her stay she has dominated press headlines and
it hasn't just been for her close relationship with Chris.
(13:44):
During her first week in the house, she faced inappropriate
and homophobic remarks from fellow housemate Mickey Rourke. A lot
of us probably won't know who he is because I
mean is the UK big Brother, but he's a seventy
two year old actor and former professional boxer. It is
clear brother knew what they were doing when they put
him in the house. Oh, they could have probably written
the script for it now. During a conversation, Micky asked
(14:07):
Jojo if she liked girls or boys, to which she
responded girls. He then remarked I know, I could tell.
He also told the twenty one year old, if I
stay longer than four days, you won't be gay anymore. Now.
Jojo rejected this statement, saying I can guarantee I will
still be gay and I will still be in a
very happy relationship. Well that has not aged well, has
(14:29):
it now. The conversation got even more threatening when Micky
said I'll tie you up, to which Jojo responded, I
can promise you that won't happen. I dare you to try,
and you'll be the one tied up. Good on her
for hitting back at this absolute dickhead.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Well.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Micky also declared that he was going to vote the
lesbian out real quick, and in a conversation which he
claimed was about the communal smoking area, he said, I
need a fag and then proceeded to gesture to Jojo
before declaring I'm not talking about you now. Chris Hughes
immediately called Micky out, telling him he can't say that,
(15:04):
and Micky replied claiming he was just talking about a cigarette.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I want to point out that these comments are, of
course very confronting, but we thought it was important to
read them out and provide full context because I think
it really shows the treatment that Jojo received in the
very first few days of the house and how tough
it would have been for her. I mean, we've touched
on the fact that she is wise beyond her years,
but this is difficult for anyone to deal with. Oh,
(15:30):
it's disgusting behavior from Mickey Rourke, and you can see
why Jojo and Chris would have bonded so much, particularly
because he was the one that stood up for her. Definitely,
I think that's what really sparked their connection and initial friendship. Now,
Micky was issued a former warning by the show's producers,
and he was later removed from the house for making
unwanted sexual remarks towards another housemate called Ella Wise, and
(15:53):
also for an aggressive verbal confrontation with Chris Hughes. The
show was widely condemned, though for not acting sooner and
removing him for his homophobic comments towards Jojo. It's very disturbing.
In this day and age, you would have thought he
would have been ripped out of the house instantly, but
it's clear that they wanted him there for ratings.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Once Mickey was out of the house, it was JoJo's
relationship with Chris Hughes which took center stage, particularly on TikTok,
with snippets of their interactions going viral. Oh these were
everywhere on my for you page. I feel like I
watched this whole show just on TikTok gosh. I mean,
that's how shows go off these days.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well it also made the show international because you know,
this is a show that is aired in the UK,
but everyone around the world tuned into this. Oh this
is a sign for Big Brother Australia. I think it's
Channel seven. Then now have it go back to the
normal format. People want to see the housemates talking and
having conversations. They don't want to see the games, they
don't want to hear the strategy. Well, they also had
(16:52):
a live stream of the Big brother House, a bit
like up Late that they used to do, but apparently
anytime anything controversial or interesting happened, they would immediately blur
the screen so that they'd save it for the main show. Now,
getting back to Chris and Jojo. As we all saw
unfolding on TikTok, the pair developed a very close and
someone say intimate relationship, and while they did describe their
(17:16):
bonders being platonic, there were several incidents that raised concern
not only amongst viewers but also their housemates, because the
pair were very physically affectionate. All the massages and backs scratching,
it was very flirtatious. I would not have been happy
if I was kath Ebbs. They actually slept in beds
next to each other and they'd have all these late
(17:37):
night chats, and one night she was tapping on him
to see if he was awake, and then she started
writing different letters in his hands to spell out something
to him secretively. Yeah, a lot has been made about
that because in the scene it showed her writing four letters,
but she said that they actually spent the whole night
writing on each other's hands, and this was actually about
(17:58):
a broader conversation around her gender identity. Getting back to
this physical affection. The thing that was quite weird about
it is it started almost instantaneously, so Chris was already
giving Jojo back scratches on day three, and as you said,
it progressed or cuddles. There was also a moment where
they were in a hot tub together and Jojo was
sitting on Chris's lap and one of the housemates, who's
(18:19):
a UK actor called Danny Bidd, told the pair they
either either fuk or just stop and what about. There's
a dance scene also going viral where they literally look
like they're about to kiss. Like it's so awful watching
it all back. That was another thing. They weren't just
physically affectionate with one another. They appeared to have this
really strong emotional connection because they were practicing for dirty dancing.
(18:40):
That's the whole thing. They were doing this whole dance
routine that wasn't part of a task or anything. They
just decided that they wanted to do it together. I
don't know if you saw it, but there was also
this really bizarre clip where Chris requested that Jojo lick
chocolate off his shorts.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
Let's have a listen, lick though, please that has to go.
Please lick that off. No, like, lick it. Please look
it up. Start there. Imagine that wasn't chocolate lickyt your freak.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I saw this and the camera angles were so dodgy
on it by a Big Brother like it looked so wrong.
This was one of the things that actually did make
me feel uncomfortable about their age gap, because it did
seem like he was really pressuring her to see how
far he could push her. It was very strange, Yeah,
because he clearly would have known that that was going
to be cut up and how that would have come across.
(19:30):
I have been wary to comment on all of these
grooming allegations going on because, as we mentioned earlier, Jojo
is of course over age, but also because it's hard
to know the context when you just see a clip
from Big Brother. A lot of the UK public are
completely shipping this romance between Jojo and Chris because they
loved their dynamic on the show, and they've obviously watched
(19:52):
a lot of footage of them together. Yes it is edited,
but you know you were saying that there's you can
see up late and actually look into the conversations in
real time have it. I think there's also this element
where people are really titillated by the fact that they
think that this man has turned this gay woman straight. Oh.
There is a massive element of that, and I think
people are also so supportive of it because sadly, people
(20:14):
don't actually see a lesbian relationship as being as genuine
as a heterosexual relationship, which is just so wrong. It
is extremely wrong. It kind of reminds me of the
hype around Tully Smythe and Drew's relationship in the Australian
Big Brother House, because I think a lot of people
will forget that when Tully entered the house, she actually
had a girlfriend at the time and she cheated on
(20:35):
her girlfriend with Drew. I do remember that Tully copped
a lot of criticism over it, but in terms of
the actual relationship with Drew, the people were shipping it
and he was very popular with the Australian public. I
think he came third ines well. Getting back to Jojo
and Chris, I do have to mention another really weird
scene that was going viral. This was part of a challenge,
(20:57):
so they were dressed in cat outfits and Big Brother
put a kiddy little box in the shared bedroom of
the housemates, and they thought it would be hilarious to
piss in it together, so Chris went first, and then
Jojo also squatted and pissed in the litter box. Wow.
I mean this is reminding me of a big school camp.
Like people are saying, oh, how do they get close
(21:19):
so quickly? It's kind of those situations where you've got
no one else in there and it's all fun and
games and you suddenly start getting feelings for each other
that seems to have been what's happened to you? Yeah,
it is the classic school camp scenario, particularly when you've
got all these in jokes. I've noticed that in a
lot of interviews they've done since coming out of the house,
and you know, JoJo's been so keen to watch all
(21:40):
of the clips back and she just seems to be
so engulfed in the experience, and you know, it's so
situations where you haven't been on the camp and you're like,
stop going on about it.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
Well.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
A huge moment for Jojo on the show was when
she told fellow housemate Danny that her time in the
housemates had come to a realization about her sexuality. So
she said, I've always told myself I'm a lesbian, and
I think being here, I've realized, oh, I'm not a lesbian,
I'm queer, and I think that's really cool. I'm switching letters.
I've dropped the L and I'm going to the que baby.
That's what I love about sexuality. It has been pretty
(22:13):
remarkable to watch her navigate her sexuality on such a
public stage and for her to show young people watching
at home that sexuality can be fluid, because I think
there's a tendency for people to want to label others
straight away and to put you in a box when
in reality, I think Jojo is really showing that there's
this discovery process when it comes to your sexuality, and
(22:36):
it can take a long time. I mean, she is
twenty one as well and been in the public eye
for so many years, and she probably felt like she
needed to come out and put a label on it
very quickly. And I think what people have been loving
about Jojo in The Big Brother House is she's not
what she appears to be on social media. People have
really loved this stripped back version of her where she's
(22:57):
being very raw. Yeah, and I think that she's really
liked the fact that she's had her phone taken away
from her there's no outside distractions, and she said that
she's really had to sit in her own thoughts and
reflect on her life and get to know herself on
a deeper level. And I think this admission about her
sexuality is a particularly bold one to make when your
partner is watching on at home, because reading between the lines,
(23:20):
Jojo made this realization about her sexuality due to her
very close friendship with Chris in the house and if
you were Kath, you would be questioning everything.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I feel so sorry for Kath in this situation. And
as Jojo and Chris's on screen connection started to blossom,
Kath became noticeably absent from their social media channel, And
I feel like this was a way for Kath to
protect themselves. This story was blowing up all over TikTok.
It would be so hard to watch. I mean I
found it hard to watch, yeah, particularly because everyone had
(23:52):
a take on their relationship, and Kath also was beginning
to experience some very relentless trolling, which just seems so unfair.
And during the final week, the housemates received letters from
home and Jojo was left unsettled by what she described
as Kath's cold message. So the letter in question was
actually written by JoJo's mum, and in it she wrote,
(24:13):
the most important thing to tell you is a message
from Kath, because I know you really miss them the most.
Kath's keen to see you when you get out. Now,
of course he's being Reality TV. It was Chris who
read the letter out to Jojo. That was a nice
little touch, wasn't it. Now. Jojo did seem very unsettled
by this letter, and she told her fellow housemate Jack. Shephard,
I'm finding myself really analyzing that note, and I don't
(24:36):
like it. She then went to the diary room to
share her thoughts on the letter. Here's what she said.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
God, I love that little sucker.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
I do.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I do have beef to peck with them. Though they
didn't even say in the note that they love me.
I will not let them love that down. I will say,
where was my high sweetheart? Where was my I love you?
Where was my I miss you?
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Like happy?
Speaker 7 (25:00):
You're keen to see me when I get out of here,
keen to see you as well. But come on, bahbah,
give me a little zom zomb.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I really don't know what Jojo expected from Kath in
the letter. I mean, for Jojo, who's pretty much a
reality TV veteran, she knows exactly how the mechanics of
this show works. She would be very aware of how
her relationship with Chris is being portrayed on the show
and also across social media, so she would know the
(25:28):
scrutiny that Kath would be receiving on the outside world.
And I'm sorry, but she made Kath like an absolute mug.
Did she really expect Kath would then declare their love
in a gushy letter to her? Yeah, I was pretty
surprised by JoJo's reaction. Now following the letter, Jojo then
went on and spoke to Chris and said she needed
to wait forty eight hours before telling him something pressing
(25:49):
that was on her mind. Now, to put this into context,
the finale was in less than forty eight hours, so
it was clear that Jojo wanted to tell him something
away from the cameras. This, of course, led viewers to
speculate that perhaps she was going to tell Chris that
she wanted to end her relationship with Kath and be
with him now. Despite all of the online theories about
(26:10):
Jojo and Chris's relationship and the very intense media scrutiny
around it. Kath made the decision to jump on a
twenty four hour flight to be by JoJo's side at
the finale. I don't blame her though, if that was
my partner on TV, even if I was pissed with them,
I'm not staying back home in Australia to wait for
her and Chris to get out of the house and
have all this alone time without me being there to
(26:32):
be like, what is going on? Yeah, you definitely want answers.
And I think it was quite clear that Kath wanted
to believe that a lot of the drama on the
show was fabricated and it was just a fake reality show.
And Kath found out very quickly what we saw on
the show was very much real, and they were dumped
by Jojo at the Big Brother Rap party, and Jojo
(26:53):
moved very fast. She dumped Kath one hour after seeing
them for the first time in three weeks. Let me
point out, and I have to add in I want
to call it a bit of a fun fact here,
because Kath has since shared with the team from the
Big Small Talk podcast that Jojo actually broke up with
them when she was wearing a full feight of glitter
and chains in her hair. This was a look that
she wore to the Big Brother after party, which is
(27:16):
all over TikTok at the moment, I kept saying, everyone
saying as soon as Chris saw her like that, he
was really put off. Well, Kath said, it was very
hard to take her seriously in that moment. Now pretty sensationally.
Kath shared the news of the breakup in a thirteen
minute TikTok video which has since been archived. Here's some
(27:36):
of what they said. It has calmed my attention.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
In the past eight hours that everything we sort of
saw unfold on what I thought was a fake reality
show where I didn't need to worry about the validity
of my relationship, was in fact laced in a lot
of truth, which has been so probably one of the
(28:09):
most craziest, intense, awful, horrific experiences I've ever probably gone
through in my adult life. But the truth of the
matter is I decided to show up for my partner
and hold up my end of the bargain of being
(28:30):
in a partnership and being a teammate and I flew
across the world to support and be there and hold
that person in whatever they would be experiencing leaving such
a wild experience, and instead I was dumped at the
(28:51):
after party with Chris in the next room, which is
fucking crazy to say out loud, It's truly crazy, Like
there's a lot of processing that needs to happen. I
was told that there are confused feelings there. Do with
that what you will, and that they had realized in
(29:11):
the house that I wasn't the person that they wanted
to spend the foreseeable future with, which has honestly been,
as you can probably tell by my demeanor, so shocking
that I feel kind of subhuman right now. Yeah, and
(29:35):
I feel incredibly humiliated, and I feel a bit embarrassed.
I feel like the Internet might have warned me a
little bit, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I guess didn't listen. You would be absolutely fuming, and
you could really tell from Cast's response that they were
in ut of shock. I did find it quite fascinating
to hear from someone who works in the television industry
that they were convinced that it was all just manufactured drama.
And I think it's clear that that's because Kath wanted
(30:07):
to believe this and they were convinced that their partner
wouldn't treat them in this way, because Kath made it
pretty clear that they fell victim to some pretty intense
love bombing early on in their relationship with Jojo. Kath
explained that Jojo told them that they were the love
of her life and even asked them to marry her
before heading into their house. How utterly confusing would all
(30:28):
of this be. To put that all into perspective, Kath
and Jojo were only together for four months, so a
marriage proposal is pretty intense. It was pretty fascinating to
hear Kath drop bits and pieces about Chris because whilst
Jojo was breaking up with Kath, they claimed Jojo said
she had confused feelings in regards to Chris, so he
(30:49):
was used as an excuse for the breakup. Kath went
on to say that Jojo told them she wanted to
explore independence and certain feelings. As for how Kath felt
about Chris, they said they had opinions on him which
they won't go into, and said Jojo and Chris's relationship
is their journey and to essentially enjoy God. That was
(31:10):
very reserved of them wasn't if it was me, I
would have gone hamm. I don't think I would have
been so kind. Kath also revealed that despite their efforts
to fly halfway across the world, they were met with
a lot of anger from Jojo. Kat says Jojo had
a lot of anger around the letter and about Kath
not wanting to appear on TV. It seems like Jojo
(31:31):
has used this letter as a bit of a scapegoat
to go, oh, it's actually you, the fucked up Kath,
not me. It was really fascinating to hear what was
actually going on behind the scenes with Kath, because as
we touched on, they went offline during the last two
weeks of the show, and they admitted it was a
very upsetting time for them and they felt betrayed by
what they saw on TV. And Kath said they went
(31:52):
offline because they couldn't get clarity or talk to Jojo,
so they didn't want to jump online and speculate before
they had all the fat, which I think was very
fair of them. It was pretty evident how humiliated and
broken they were by the whole ordeal and the immense
impact that trolling has had on them, and also the
media scrutiny. It's interesting to think back to the Tally
(32:14):
Smile situation because her ex girlfriend never really had a
right of reply. We didn't have I think we had
only just started to have Instagram, but there were no
stories or anything. Yeah, people weren't putting out public statements
on their Instagram. So it is really interesting. How you know,
we've seen JoJo's side of it, We've heard from Chris Hughes,
and now we're hearing from Cath and I think it's
only fair that they got to share their point of
(32:36):
view too.
Speaker 8 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And there has been an absolutely massive reaction online to
this developing story and obviously the breakup. There seems to
be a couple of camps. There was one camp of
people when the show was airing who felt like the
speculation around JoJo's friendship with Chris was homophobic. Yeah, there
was a lot of people jumping on saying, no, this
is just how queer people interact with platonic friends. It's
(32:58):
totally normal. They're very touched fear. And then following the breakup,
there was another camp of people who were utterly heartbroken
and angry on Cat's behalf and they were adamant that
they had been cheated on and JoJo's behavior was out
of line. I think there are a lot of Australians particular,
who felt like we needed to jump in and protect
Kath at all costs. Yeah, particularly because we hadn't seen
(33:19):
the show, so it's easy to look at it in
a black and white sense and be like, hang on,
this woman has cheated on her partner. Then, of course
there's the other camp who said that Kath needed to
get over it and that they shouldn't be hurt because
it's just a four month relationship. And then there's a
people who were obviously shipping the relationship from Big Brother.
There's also been a lot of people condemning Kath for
(33:40):
making a public breakup announcement on TikTok, and I want
to jump in and defend that one because Kath is
not the one who made this situation public. Jojo did.
I mean Kath had to sit back for three weeks
essentially watching their partner cross so many lines on international TV,
so many times humiliating, and Kath was really respectful. They
(34:03):
remained silent until they could actually speak to their partner. Yeah, exactly,
And I found it really interesting to hear Abby Chatfield's
take on the situation. As we touched on, she is
friends with Kath, and she explained that she has actually
met Jojo a handful of times and she thought that
she was lovely and mature, but then said this situation
has proved otherwise. Abby went on to call Jojo a
(34:26):
professional rage beta and said she would have been aware
of the ramifications this fallout would have on Kath.
Speaker 9 (34:34):
She is a career reality TV stuff, right, She's incredibly
good at it, she's incredibly smart, she's very hard working,
very successful. But she is a rage beta, right.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
We're all aware of that.
Speaker 9 (34:52):
We all know that she knows that any publicity is
good publicity. It's gotten her career, it's elevated her career.
She's very talented in many ways. I don't want to
talk shit about her, but.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
It's elevated her career. It's really blown up her career,
particularly on TikTok.
Speaker 9 (35:11):
And that's great that she's kind of cracked that formula.
But my issue is in knowing that and being intentional
with that. In JoJo's everyday life and career.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
She's aware of how media cycles work, and she's completely
aware of what stories media runs with. She's aware of
how the public react to things and how to get
the public enraged, I think, and I would hope it
wasn't the case. I think my issue is more that
she wasn't aware or cognizant of the potential ramifications for
(35:45):
Kath in this whole thing.
Speaker 9 (35:47):
Cath has been collateral damage.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think Abby hit the nail on the head there
by calling Jojo a professional rage baita. She is incredibly
savvy online and in her dealings with the media, and
she's been expl strategy and manipulation from an early age,
so she would be very aware of how this relationship
would have played out, not only in the media but online.
And she would have known that Cath would have been
sitting at home watching on feeling completely helpless, and to
(36:14):
make matters worse, she would have been aware that there
would have been trolling involved. Now, following her departure from
the show, Jojo appeared on ITV's Morning Show alongside Chris Hughes. Yeah,
that was very interesting. The Big Brother producers clearly know
what they're doing. Everyone wanted to see their dynamic together
outside of the house. Yeah, and of course Kath's very
public breakup announcement had gone live, so Jojo took the
(36:38):
opportunity to say that she hadn't been happy in the
relationship for quite some time. Here's more of what she said.
Speaker 7 (36:45):
Honestly, D three, I was now in my own thoughts,
away from everyone that I know, away from outside opinions,
away from everything, and I sat with myself, and from
that point on, I really realized things that I was
okay with my life that I should never have been
okay with in the you mean, your relationship, and just
so many things.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
That is one of them, but so many things.
Speaker 7 (37:08):
And then I, you know, obviously I wanted to hold
them inside though, because I didn't want to air that
out very publicly. But there were countless things that I
was like, that's not, you know, something that I should
be okay with and I don't need to be okay
with and I'm not happy, And I knew as soon
as I got out, I wanted to fix things in
(37:29):
my life and make the changes that I needed to make.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I feel like it's a bit rich to come out
and say, oh, I just haven't been happy for so long.
It's a full month relationship where you have apparently proposed
to the person right before going into the house. You're
in the honeymoon period. Like, what is going on now?
The morning show host Ben Shephard remarked that Jojo in
fact did act very quickly, pointing out that she broke
up with Kath at the Rap party. Jojo confirmed that
(37:54):
she did break up with Kath at the Rat party,
but that she didn't plan on doing it then and
so Jojo claimed that Kath initially said that they didn't
want to attend, but then an hour in decided to
come along, Jojo said. At the party, Kat asked if
Jojo was happy, and she said no, and one thing
led to another. The host then asked, whatever, I want
(38:16):
to know what is going on between Jojo and Chris.
Here's what Chris said. They're clearly a very quite bond.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Obviously we're closely, but I think it's like our friendship
is like it's just a it's hard to expect, it's
just a really strong bond between two people, which is
just a strong friendship.
Speaker 8 (38:37):
And I think I think you can have like a
soulmate friendship. I think that's a thing. Yes, And to me,
it's like that energy of where it's not like the
standard friendship that you have with your friends. But it's
you know, it's still a friendship. You know, we are
friends and just it's just nice. And that's why I
found the whole I found it strange because it was
such a strong friendship.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Literally, take a shot. Every time Chris said friend, well,
you'd be very drunk. It seemed like he wanted to
make it very clear from his end that nothing else
was going on between them. I mean, you've only just
got her to break up with her partner, and now
you're saying, oh no, we're just friends. Like what a
slap in the face. Well, in the comment section, there
were many people who felt as though maybe Chris had
(39:18):
blindsided Jojo and maybe she thought if she dumped Cath
it would then lead to a relationship with him. Ben
the host then asked Jojo if she would like more
with Chris in the future, and here's what she said.
Speaker 8 (39:35):
And he's a gorgeous boy.
Speaker 7 (39:38):
Gorgeous boy, You're a gorgeous girl. Look, he's a great guy.
It is platonic. We have a lot of fun together.
Life is life, and I don't know any future of anything,
but I'm really grateful for our dynamic that we have
in our bond that we have and whatever life does,
life will do.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
What I read into this is that Jojo very much
wants something with Chris, and she is planning on exploring
this relationship. I think that Chris probably is as well.
He was probably just trying to play it down to
try and not appear to be the bad guy in
the situation, because, to be real, Jojo was the one
that was in a relationship, not him. Well, he's probably
also mindful that it's sometimes not a good look on,
(40:20):
not a good decision to jump into a relationship straight
away after another one's ended. I mean, they also live
in different countries, so maybe I mean, being thirty two,
maybe he's a bit more mature and wants to see
how this would all work. I find the way that
they keep calling one another friendship soulmates quite odd. It's
a bit of wyank, isn't it. Let's be honest, what's
going on. There's a lot of sexual tension there that
(40:41):
needs to be resolved, and I don't know if that'll
be friendship soulmates after that's happened. Yeah, I wonder how
long this connection will actually go on for Jojo has
been posting about Chris to her eleven point two million
followers on Instagram. She showed the pair having a tennis
match together. I believe that they spoke about playing tennis
withinside the house. To be very interesting to see how
this relationship evolves. Well, if Chris is clever from a
(41:04):
PR strategy, we want to explore this further and gain
some of those followers. Now, let's get into our Friday debrief.
And so if I want to talk to you about
Meghan Markle's first ever podcast interview on the Jamie Kern
Lemur Show. So of course she has had two podcasts
now of her own, but it's actually the first time
that she's been interviewed in a long form on a podcast.
(41:26):
And I was pretty surprised that she chose the Jamie
Kern Lima show. I have never heard of this woman,
but she is the founder of IT Cosmetics. She's also
been on Meghan's Female Founder podcast and the pair live
next door to each other, so they're great friends. And
they made such a big deal about the fact that
they were sitting in the rocking chairs that they usually
(41:48):
sit on at their house and to have these deep
conversations and they both went wearing makeup. I call absolute bullshit.
Jamie was wearing makeup. You can see she visibly had blush.
On Meghan, on the other hand, I think was bare face.
People were commenting that she had quite an intense facetan
or nobody. To be fair, that's what I'd be doing
if I was told I couldn't have any makeup on. Yeah,
(42:08):
it was quite clear there was some products being used
to achieve that no makeup makeup. Look, I'm confused by
the philosophy beyond it, though, because if you own a
makeup brand, would you not want to be promoting the
makeup that you wear on a big stage like this.
But it was all about being braw and honest. So
if you actually haven't listened to it in full, you've
only heard, Oh, I keep seeing a pomp up on
my ticktok algorithm. And it's one of those things where
(42:30):
it's no surprise to the listeners that I'm a big
fan of Meghan Markle, but I am cringing hard at
some of the moments that are being shit. See. I
think that her first podcast interview should have been with
Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy. That would have given
her some credit. This podcast was so hard to get
into because there was eight minutes of hype and it
was so American, it was so spewy. I was like,
(42:53):
just talk to Megan. I can't stand it. And it
was like, I was like, who is this woman. She's
actually interviewed Oprah before, She's got five hundred thousand followers,
but it was so cringe and I'm like, no, Megan,
this is not where you need to go. You need
to be on a good podcast where you have a
good chat, because deep down, I think she's a very
nice person. But unfortunately, because of all the press backlash,
(43:15):
she goes on these podcasts and she has to really
push and pump herself up. And she's got her friend
pumping herself up, pump her up. But I think that
she's got to pump up her relationship with Harry because
there's been a lot of speculation that their marriage is
on the rocks. Well, she did call him a fox
on the episode. She said he was a fox, and
I want to throw it to the way she spoke
about their relationship because she said that they're actually in
(43:36):
the honeymoon phase now because before they were going through
all of this crap with the royal family and they
had to hide their relationship. But this is how she
explained what Harry does for her.
Speaker 10 (43:48):
You know, I mean each that man loves me so much,
and you know, look what we've built. We've built a
beautiful lafe and we have two healthy, beautiful children, you know.
And I always think about it like the end of
Super Mario Brothers, when you get to the final final level,
what's the goal? And super Mario They're like, slay the dragon,
(44:10):
save the Princess. I'm like, that's my husband. He's just
out there, just constantly. He's just going to do whatever
he can to make sure that our family is safe
and protected and we're uplifted and still make time for depntes.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Why Meghan, Why please? I'm to have admitted this scene
from the Budker. There was also this really random story
Meghan told about meeting Baywatch star Yasmine Bleath, and all
I could think about was Chandler and Joey going on
about her on friends. So when Meghan was working in
a yogurt shop, she was taking some trash bags out
(44:45):
to the street and she saw Yazmine and she went
up to her and was like, oh my gosh, I
love you in this commercial and Yazmin said to her, Hi,
I'm Yasmin. What's your name? And she said that now
she always says that to fans when she meets him,
because she said she he felt so seen in that moment. Oh,
I quite like that story. I think that's quite a
good tactic, and it's just it's funny that it's come
(45:07):
from a former bag Watch actor, particularly because you know
she probably used that skill when she was a royal
out meeting the public. Yeah, it is a good tip.
I also enjoyed hearing the backstory of why Megan calls
Harry h and he calls her m And it was
all to do with the fact that they had to
talk in codes while they were dating. And it's just stuck.
And I mean, it does come across as a little
(45:28):
bit insufferable, but then I think about how I always
call my husband darling and it started off as a
joke and it's just stuck. It does make more sense
now hearing that they had to speak in code. But
I think age in particular isn't a letter that rolls
off the tongue easily. I mean, I'm glad that they
say h instead of h oh. That is my absolute
pet peeve. My husband says h and his last name
(45:50):
is Hancock, so he's always spelling it out for people
when he goes to the shops for his email, and
it just grates on me and I feel like interrupting
and being like, it's h yeah. Recent I had a
disagreement of it, and we actually ended up researching the
origins of it, and the correct way is h oh.
I've seen mixed stuff. I think it can actually be both. No,
it's not, go look into it all right. Well, I
(46:11):
think that is where we will leave things for today.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode.
If you have enjoyed it, could you please make sure
you are subscribed on Apple podcast and also Spotify. This
episode was recorded on the traditional land of the Ghana
people of the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to Elder's
past and present.
Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
Kate Torbert and coming up on today's show, Chloe zeb
is accused of clickbaiting her audience over a big life announcement,
Jojo Siwa and kath Eb's very public breakup, and our
Friday debrief. But first, Matsakowski has revealed. What he was
(00:22):
really doing on the Easter long weekend has been consuming
my thoughts ever since Demmi Hambro posted that she was
having this very wholesome Easter morning with her kids. They
were in their pj's, they were eating chocolate for breakfast,
and he was nowhere to be seen. Yeah. Well, it
turns out he was in Melbourne, like we thought, celebrating
with his family. So he shared a photo dump with
the caption All of this social activity is exhausting. What
(00:46):
a millennial play on words there. I actually thought he
might be having a dig at our podcast because he
posted his Easter snaps the day after we released our episode.
Is this play about us? I mean, I don't necessarily
think that that was a dig at us. Eating a
bit maybe I'm a bit sensitive one of Matt's relatives
did add a rather wholesome comment, saying, such a wonderful
(01:06):
celebration with beautiful friends Easter was special. I wonder if
it's difficult for Tammy to join the family celebrations in
Melbourne because she does have joint custody of her youngest
daughter Posey with Matt Paul. Do you think that's what's
the issue. Yeah, it's a hard one because at the
same time, Matt does have his own family in Melbourne
who might feel like they're missing out if he's always
(01:26):
on the Gold Coast with her and her extended family.
In relationships, it does need to be a bit of
give and take, but it does make a bit more
complex when you do have joint custody of a child.
I mean, it seems like Matt had a great weekend.
The photo dump included photos of him with his sister,
drinking champagne, a pig on a spit, hot cross buns,
and painted Easter eggs now. I have been keeping a
(01:48):
close eye on Mattzakowski's Instagram since he has returned from
his hiatus.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
He did another photo dump where he included photos of
him out for dinner with Tammy. She yeah pop up
a number of times. There weren't any couple photos, it
was just singular photos of Tammy. There was also a
photo of her on a flight, so he's clearly trying
to say, look, we are together. Yeah, he is dropping
it without making it too much of a big deal.
He's also revealed that he's being interviewed on Shameless Media's
(02:13):
Inherited podcast, which I was pretty surprised about. To me,
he doesn't really fit the mold of who they generally
speak to, but they're trying to get to Tammy maybe.
I mean. I have really enjoyed some of the most
recent conversations on Inherited, particularly with Michelle Andrews and her mother.
I was in tears in the car listening to that.
I have been able to listen to it. Such a
(02:34):
sad story but also such a beautiful one the way
that they were able to share it. I also loved
the conversation with Jesse Stevens, particularly about her relationship with
her husband Luca, because I mean, Shameless put that out
just as all of the shit was hitting the fan, yeah,
which I thought was very unwarranted. I mean, we have
spoken about it in depth on our subs channel. Jesse
Stevens and Meer Friedman actually appeared on the Stellar podcast
(02:57):
the other week, and that was a really interesting listen.
It's clear that they're trying to do a bit of
pr around the situation because me and Freedman just disappeared
off the podcast. Yeah, I mean, majority of the conversation
was about their show, well, the second season of Strife,
which is about to come out. I kind of wanted
more of a tidbit about their working relationship and how
more so how they go as mother and daughter. They've
(03:18):
spoken about it so many times, like how much more
can they say? They obviously have to say, oh, we love.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I mean, I think Jesse made a good point. She's
grown up as an identical twin. She doesn't really know
what it's like to not work with family and be
around family. You don't have boundaries when you're an identical sibling.
Getting back to Matt, though, I am very intrigued to
hear his insights because Inherited as a podcast where I
feel like it's quite deep, and I mean, I don't
mean to be unfair about Matt, but I don't know
(03:44):
if he has quite the personality to do well on
a show like that. It's sort of like when Tammy
Hembro was interviewed by Mea Friedman on No Filter. Again,
we're bringing up Mea. But yeah, you know when they
don't quite go into it enough and you're like, you
hope for more, but it's not very insight. We might
see a different side of Matt. I think this is
a great pr opportunity for him to tap into that
(04:07):
audience that are a little bit, you know, not his
biggest fans, and I wouldn't be surprised if he opens
up more about his fertility. Well, yeah, it definitely sounds
like it's an opportunity for people to see another side
of him. I know we all have a bit of
a laugh about the Matt and Tammy situation because it
does come across as a bit of a circus at times,
just because of the public nature of it. But the
(04:27):
intense interest in your relationship, particularly for two young people,
would be very tough to deal with, and I sometimes
feel like we underestimate the strain that it would put
on both of them. Yeah, it would be very difficult.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
And then I go into the office, see the girls
and start my day with back to back meetings.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Chloe Zepp has been accused of clickbaiting her audience after
unveiling a major life announcement on her Instagram. The og
influencers shared a photo of her pregnant with the caption
big Announcement. Now, many people presumed she was announcing her
third pregnancy, but Kate, that wasn't the case. No, Chloe
in fact was announcing that she's closing down her active
(05:09):
web brand ZEP. But you wouldn't have known that unless
you got down to the eighth line of the caption.
And let's be real, most people are scrolling on Instagram
and don't even read the captions, let alone a whole
slab of texts. It was clearly a way for her
to attract attention by following up that photo. Definitely so
Chloe started out by writing big announcement. Hello, It's been
a while since I have shared on here, but there's
(05:31):
some big changes happening in my life. I have been
contemplating in prayer for a good year now to gain
clarity and direction, and big decisions always scare me. But
with God, I know that he holds the whole picture
and I just have to work it out peace. By piece.
She then went on to say it is with sadness
and peace that I laid down ZEP for a little while.
I mean, I didn't find this news particularly shocking. I
(05:54):
can't say that there's been much hype around this active
web brand. The last time I really heard about ze
was when Chloe Zepp was being canceled over her stance
on vaccinations. When people were burning her Yeah, literally on TikTok.
People were burning her active worth, throwing in the bin.
They were putting masking tape over Zepp to conceal the brand. Yeah,
(06:14):
I mean, I'm surprised it lasted six years. It was
launched back in twenty nineteen. In saying that though there
were a lot of comments about how people were quite
devastated that the active wear line was being shut down
because people were raving about the quality of it, I
think it comes down to her been quite an irrelevant influencer.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, ever since all of the drama in twenty twenty,
we haven't heard much from her. And even back in
twenty twenty, I was surprised she was such a big
deal because essentially she was known as Shiny Grimman's best friend.
I mean, I think that Mitch Orvil's presence also helped her.
People loved tuning in to see her and Mitch's dynamic,
and they had really cute kids as well. But it
just shows that if you're not going to continually engage
(06:54):
with your audience and put out new content, you can
become completely irrelevant space of a couple of years and
your businesses will fail. I mean, back to these clickbait allegations.
One person wrote, clickbaiting your followers by making it seem
like you're pregnant not a good take, which got one
hundred and sixty nine likes. Another said wait, guys, is
she pregnant? And someone else added, wait, wait, I'm confused.
(07:16):
Are you pregnant or is the photo referencing being a
mum to the boys already? If so, congratulations, and Chloe
ended up replying saying not pregnant, but all old ZEP
photo shoots. I'm sorry is if she doesn't have any
other images from past photo shoots to you, she knew
exactly what she was doing, I mean to be fair,
it was a photo dump, so there were a range
of photos, but the pregnancy photo shoot one was the
(07:37):
first photo on the carousel and it's been juxtapositioned with
the word big announcement. Yeah exactly. Chloe did try and
clear things up on her story. She ended up sharing
the post on her story and wrote, sorry if you
thought I was pregnant old pick from a ZEP photo
shoot when I had Sonny Bunny in my belly. I
think what also added to the confusion was her very
lengthy statement where she spoke about motherhood throughout it. She
(07:59):
said she no longer had time to pursue ZEP, and
while she didn't know what was next, she had peace
knowing that motherhood is in her heart and she was
raising her boys. I mean this made many people assume
that she was giving up ZEP now that she was
having a third baby. One other thing that stood out
to me about this announcement was how much Chloe reference God.
So she and her fiance Mitchell Orvill recently found God,
(08:22):
and she finished up her announcement saying, I look forward
to sharing more of my journey again as I continue
to navigate with God. Do we think that possibly she's
continuing either paid or unpaid work within the church, because
I'm getting ultra confused how these people continue to make
money when they I mean, it's clear that they're not
doing many brand deals. It's not like Instagram is generating
(08:43):
her an income anymore. And now she's dropping the business
where she had employees. They recently moved into an office
as well, so it seemed like they were trying to
take it to the next level. Yeah, she had six
employees based on the Gold Coast. There are a lot
of questions and speculation growing about what is going on
with the zepp Vials, and there's been a lot of
rumors about a potential split between Mitch's parents, Mark and
(09:05):
Sharon Orville. People are questioning is the family undergoing financial hardship.
Chloe's mum actually added fuel to the fire by commenting,
Oh Chloe, with a crying face, so proud of my
baby girl. You are a wonderful mother and it's commendable
that you are choosing to spend this precious time with
your beautiful boys. Unfortunately, over the years, several people have
taken advantage of your kindness and generosity. But I'm excited
(09:27):
for your bright future with your fiance and children. Love
you so so so much. Ow So she's dropping the
bomb in the comment section that there is more to
this closure than simply Chloe wanting to spend more time
with her kids. Hmm, she is. Do we think that
there's investors involved who have screwed her over? Or is
she pointing to family members? It's very up in the
(09:47):
air who she's actually referencing. Yeah, it's very vague. I
wonder if Chloe was like, oh, for fuck sake, mom,
don't write that, or potentially she wanted her mum to
drop the bomb like this and level a few of
these accusations at people and then play it off as oh, Mom,
why did you write that? Because surely if this was
some information that you didn't want out there, you would
(10:10):
delete the comment pretty swiftly. I don't even know where
to begin.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I'm filming this in a complete state of shock, which
I know is probably distressing and is probably giving go.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Have a sleep. This week, all anyone can talk about
is Jojo Siwah and Kath Ebb's very public breakup. The
former Dance Mum star has just spent the last twenty
days in the UK celebrity Big Brother House, growing increasingly
close to housemate and former Love Islander Chris Hughes Or
while her Aussie partner Kath watches on from home. So
(10:54):
before we dive into the drama, let's talk about the
key players here. The first is, of course, Jojo cwe Now.
She is a twenty one year old American singer and
actress who found fame on reality show Dance Mums when
she was only twelve years old. She's also very famous
among Jen Alfers, who she made millions off through her
very successful air Bow Empire. Now, in recent years, she
(11:15):
has been desperately trying to cross over to a more
adult audience, and her rebrand has been compared to Miley
Cyrus's Wrecking Ball era because she dramatically tried to change
up this very wholesome, kid friendly persona to a much
edgier and more rebellious one.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
She's also been called a professional rage baita and her
rebrand was deemed as very cring. She copped a lot
of criticism online for it last year, and in twenty
twenty one, she made headlines when she announced that she
identified as a lesbian. Now, in November last year, while
she was in Australia for the TikTok Awards, Jojo met
our very own Kath Ebbs.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Kath is an actor, presenter DJ and content creator fun Fact.
They also appeared as a trainer on the Kick apps
and with a firm non binary character on Ossie TV
show Neighbors. Many people also may have come across Cath
in Abby Chatfield's content as the pair are very good friends.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Kath and Jojo instantly hit it off and fell in
love very quickly. They have been dating for around four
months now. Then there is Chris Hughes. I would like
to describe him as Love Ireland Royalty because he appeared
on series three back in twenty seventeen where he briefly
dated Olivia Atwood. Well, they were actually on a TV
(12:29):
show together and they had to pull the pin on
the show. I think it was like two episodes in
because they broke up. I am actually a big fan
of Chris Hughes. I loved him on that series of
Love Island. See. I feel like he hasn't really been
discussed much in this story. When I've heard people on
podcasts or in the media talking about it, he seems
to be omitted. But I feel like it's really important
to know a bit more about his background. I mean,
(12:51):
he dated Jesse Nelson from Little Mix in twenty eighteen
and they actually split up in early twenty twenty, so
a two year relationship there. It is interesting because maybe
he has a bit of a time for famous singers. Now.
Chris is thirty two years old and he has been
working as a horse racing presenter in recent times. I
feel like his age has been thrown around a lot
because he is eleven years older than Jojo Siwah, and
(13:13):
people seem to be making a very big deal about that.
We need to remember though, she is overage because I've
seen the word groomer being tossed around.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And for Jojo, even though she is just twenty one,
she is wise beyond her years because she's been in
the industry for a very long time. She's not your
typical twenty one year old. Now that we are all
across the main players, let's dive into what has gone
down whilst Jojo has been in the UK Big Brother House,
because during her stay she has dominated press headlines and
it hasn't just been for her close relationship with Chris.
(13:44):
During her first week in the house, she faced inappropriate
and homophobic remarks from fellow housemate Mickey Rourke. A lot
of us probably won't know who he is because I
mean is the UK big Brother, but he's a seventy
two year old actor and former professional boxer. It is
clear brother knew what they were doing when they put
him in the house. Oh, they could have probably written
the script for it now. During a conversation, Micky asked
(14:07):
Jojo if she liked girls or boys, to which she
responded girls. He then remarked I know, I could tell.
He also told the twenty one year old, if I
stay longer than four days, you won't be gay anymore. Now.
Jojo rejected this statement, saying I can guarantee I will
still be gay and I will still be in a
very happy relationship. Well that has not aged well, has
(14:29):
it now. The conversation got even more threatening when Micky
said I'll tie you up, to which Jojo responded, I
can promise you that won't happen. I dare you to try,
and you'll be the one tied up. Good on her
for hitting back at this absolute dickhead.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Well.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Micky also declared that he was going to vote the
lesbian out real quick, and in a conversation which he
claimed was about the communal smoking area, he said, I
need a fag and then proceeded to gesture to Jojo
before declaring I'm not talking about you now. Chris Hughes
immediately called Micky out, telling him he can't say that,
(15:04):
and Micky replied claiming he was just talking about a cigarette.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I want to point out that these comments are, of
course very confronting, but we thought it was important to
read them out and provide full context because I think
it really shows the treatment that Jojo received in the
very first few days of the house and how tough
it would have been for her. I mean, we've touched
on the fact that she is wise beyond her years,
but this is difficult for anyone to deal with. Oh,
(15:30):
it's disgusting behavior from Mickey Rourke, and you can see
why Jojo and Chris would have bonded so much, particularly
because he was the one that stood up for her. Definitely,
I think that's what really sparked their connection and initial friendship. Now,
Micky was issued a former warning by the show's producers,
and he was later removed from the house for making
unwanted sexual remarks towards another housemate called Ella Wise, and
(15:53):
also for an aggressive verbal confrontation with Chris Hughes. The
show was widely condemned, though for not acting sooner and
removing him for his homophobic comments towards Jojo. It's very disturbing.
In this day and age, you would have thought he
would have been ripped out of the house instantly, but
it's clear that they wanted him there for ratings.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Once Mickey was out of the house, it was JoJo's
relationship with Chris Hughes which took center stage, particularly on TikTok,
with snippets of their interactions going viral. Oh these were
everywhere on my for you page. I feel like I
watched this whole show just on TikTok gosh. I mean,
that's how shows go off these days.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well it also made the show international because you know,
this is a show that is aired in the UK,
but everyone around the world tuned into this. Oh this
is a sign for Big Brother Australia. I think it's
Channel seven. Then now have it go back to the
normal format. People want to see the housemates talking and
having conversations. They don't want to see the games, they
don't want to hear the strategy. Well, they also had
(16:52):
a live stream of the Big brother House, a bit
like up Late that they used to do, but apparently
anytime anything controversial or interesting happened, they would immediately blur
the screen so that they'd save it for the main show. Now,
getting back to Chris and Jojo. As we all saw
unfolding on TikTok, the pair developed a very close and
someone say intimate relationship, and while they did describe their
(17:16):
bonders being platonic, there were several incidents that raised concern
not only amongst viewers but also their housemates, because the
pair were very physically affectionate. All the massages and backs scratching,
it was very flirtatious. I would not have been happy
if I was kath Ebbs. They actually slept in beds
next to each other and they'd have all these late
(17:37):
night chats, and one night she was tapping on him
to see if he was awake, and then she started
writing different letters in his hands to spell out something
to him secretively. Yeah, a lot has been made about
that because in the scene it showed her writing four letters,
but she said that they actually spent the whole night
writing on each other's hands, and this was actually about
(17:58):
a broader conversation around her gender identity. Getting back to
this physical affection. The thing that was quite weird about
it is it started almost instantaneously, so Chris was already
giving Jojo back scratches on day three, and as you said,
it progressed or cuddles. There was also a moment where
they were in a hot tub together and Jojo was
sitting on Chris's lap and one of the housemates, who's
(18:19):
a UK actor called Danny Bidd, told the pair they
either either fuk or just stop and what about. There's
a dance scene also going viral where they literally look
like they're about to kiss. Like it's so awful watching
it all back. That was another thing. They weren't just
physically affectionate with one another. They appeared to have this
really strong emotional connection because they were practicing for dirty dancing.
(18:40):
That's the whole thing. They were doing this whole dance
routine that wasn't part of a task or anything. They
just decided that they wanted to do it together. I
don't know if you saw it, but there was also
this really bizarre clip where Chris requested that Jojo lick
chocolate off his shorts.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
Let's have a listen, lick though, please that has to go.
Please lick that off. No, like, lick it. Please look
it up. Start there. Imagine that wasn't chocolate lickyt your freak.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I saw this and the camera angles were so dodgy
on it by a Big Brother like it looked so wrong.
This was one of the things that actually did make
me feel uncomfortable about their age gap, because it did
seem like he was really pressuring her to see how
far he could push her. It was very strange, Yeah,
because he clearly would have known that that was going
to be cut up and how that would have come across.
(19:30):
I have been wary to comment on all of these
grooming allegations going on because, as we mentioned earlier, Jojo
is of course over age, but also because it's hard
to know the context when you just see a clip
from Big Brother. A lot of the UK public are
completely shipping this romance between Jojo and Chris because they
loved their dynamic on the show, and they've obviously watched
(19:52):
a lot of footage of them together. Yes it is edited,
but you know you were saying that there's you can
see up late and actually look into the conversations in
real time have it. I think there's also this element
where people are really titillated by the fact that they
think that this man has turned this gay woman straight. Oh.
There is a massive element of that, and I think
people are also so supportive of it because sadly, people
(20:14):
don't actually see a lesbian relationship as being as genuine
as a heterosexual relationship, which is just so wrong. It
is extremely wrong. It kind of reminds me of the
hype around Tully Smythe and Drew's relationship in the Australian
Big Brother House, because I think a lot of people
will forget that when Tully entered the house, she actually
had a girlfriend at the time and she cheated on
(20:35):
her girlfriend with Drew. I do remember that Tully copped
a lot of criticism over it, but in terms of
the actual relationship with Drew, the people were shipping it
and he was very popular with the Australian public. I
think he came third ines well. Getting back to Jojo
and Chris, I do have to mention another really weird
scene that was going viral. This was part of a challenge,
(20:57):
so they were dressed in cat outfits and Big Brother
put a kiddy little box in the shared bedroom of
the housemates, and they thought it would be hilarious to
piss in it together, so Chris went first, and then
Jojo also squatted and pissed in the litter box. Wow.
I mean this is reminding me of a big school camp.
Like people are saying, oh, how do they get close
(21:19):
so quickly? It's kind of those situations where you've got
no one else in there and it's all fun and
games and you suddenly start getting feelings for each other
that seems to have been what's happened to you? Yeah,
it is the classic school camp scenario, particularly when you've
got all these in jokes. I've noticed that in a
lot of interviews they've done since coming out of the house,
and you know, JoJo's been so keen to watch all
(21:40):
of the clips back and she just seems to be
so engulfed in the experience, and you know, it's so
situations where you haven't been on the camp and you're like,
stop going on about it.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
Well.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
A huge moment for Jojo on the show was when
she told fellow housemate Danny that her time in the
housemates had come to a realization about her sexuality. So
she said, I've always told myself I'm a lesbian, and
I think being here, I've realized, oh, I'm not a lesbian,
I'm queer, and I think that's really cool. I'm switching letters.
I've dropped the L and I'm going to the que baby.
That's what I love about sexuality. It has been pretty
(22:13):
remarkable to watch her navigate her sexuality on such a
public stage and for her to show young people watching
at home that sexuality can be fluid, because I think
there's a tendency for people to want to label others
straight away and to put you in a box when
in reality, I think Jojo is really showing that there's
this discovery process when it comes to your sexuality, and
(22:36):
it can take a long time. I mean, she is
twenty one as well and been in the public eye
for so many years, and she probably felt like she
needed to come out and put a label on it
very quickly. And I think what people have been loving
about Jojo in The Big Brother House is she's not
what she appears to be on social media. People have
really loved this stripped back version of her where she's
(22:57):
being very raw. Yeah, and I think that she's really
liked the fact that she's had her phone taken away
from her there's no outside distractions, and she said that
she's really had to sit in her own thoughts and
reflect on her life and get to know herself on
a deeper level. And I think this admission about her
sexuality is a particularly bold one to make when your
partner is watching on at home, because reading between the lines,
(23:20):
Jojo made this realization about her sexuality due to her
very close friendship with Chris in the house and if
you were Kath, you would be questioning everything.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I feel so sorry for Kath in this situation. And
as Jojo and Chris's on screen connection started to blossom,
Kath became noticeably absent from their social media channel, And
I feel like this was a way for Kath to
protect themselves. This story was blowing up all over TikTok.
It would be so hard to watch. I mean I
found it hard to watch, yeah, particularly because everyone had
(23:52):
a take on their relationship, and Kath also was beginning
to experience some very relentless trolling, which just seems so unfair.
And during the final week, the housemates received letters from
home and Jojo was left unsettled by what she described
as Kath's cold message. So the letter in question was
actually written by JoJo's mum, and in it she wrote,
(24:13):
the most important thing to tell you is a message
from Kath, because I know you really miss them the most.
Kath's keen to see you when you get out. Now,
of course he's being Reality TV. It was Chris who
read the letter out to Jojo. That was a nice
little touch, wasn't it. Now. Jojo did seem very unsettled
by this letter, and she told her fellow housemate Jack. Shephard,
I'm finding myself really analyzing that note, and I don't
(24:36):
like it. She then went to the diary room to
share her thoughts on the letter. Here's what she said.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
God, I love that little sucker.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
I do.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
I do have beef to peck with them. Though they
didn't even say in the note that they love me.
I will not let them love that down. I will say,
where was my high sweetheart? Where was my I love you?
Where was my I miss you?
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Like happy?
Speaker 7 (25:00):
You're keen to see me when I get out of here,
keen to see you as well. But come on, bahbah,
give me a little zom zomb.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I really don't know what Jojo expected from Kath in
the letter. I mean, for Jojo, who's pretty much a
reality TV veteran, she knows exactly how the mechanics of
this show works. She would be very aware of how
her relationship with Chris is being portrayed on the show
and also across social media, so she would know the
(25:28):
scrutiny that Kath would be receiving on the outside world.
And I'm sorry, but she made Kath like an absolute mug.
Did she really expect Kath would then declare their love
in a gushy letter to her? Yeah, I was pretty
surprised by JoJo's reaction. Now following the letter, Jojo then
went on and spoke to Chris and said she needed
to wait forty eight hours before telling him something pressing
(25:49):
that was on her mind. Now, to put this into context,
the finale was in less than forty eight hours, so
it was clear that Jojo wanted to tell him something
away from the cameras. This, of course, led viewers to
speculate that perhaps she was going to tell Chris that
she wanted to end her relationship with Kath and be
with him now. Despite all of the online theories about
(26:10):
Jojo and Chris's relationship and the very intense media scrutiny
around it. Kath made the decision to jump on a
twenty four hour flight to be by JoJo's side at
the finale. I don't blame her though, if that was
my partner on TV, even if I was pissed with them,
I'm not staying back home in Australia to wait for
her and Chris to get out of the house and
have all this alone time without me being there to
(26:32):
be like, what is going on? Yeah, you definitely want answers.
And I think it was quite clear that Kath wanted
to believe that a lot of the drama on the
show was fabricated and it was just a fake reality show.
And Kath found out very quickly what we saw on
the show was very much real, and they were dumped
by Jojo at the Big Brother Rap party, and Jojo
(26:53):
moved very fast. She dumped Kath one hour after seeing
them for the first time in three weeks. Let me
point out, and I have to add in I want
to call it a bit of a fun fact here,
because Kath has since shared with the team from the
Big Small Talk podcast that Jojo actually broke up with
them when she was wearing a full feight of glitter
and chains in her hair. This was a look that
she wore to the Big Brother after party, which is
(27:16):
all over TikTok at the moment, I kept saying, everyone
saying as soon as Chris saw her like that, he
was really put off. Well, Kath said, it was very
hard to take her seriously in that moment. Now pretty sensationally.
Kath shared the news of the breakup in a thirteen
minute TikTok video which has since been archived. Here's some
(27:36):
of what they said. It has calmed my attention.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
In the past eight hours that everything we sort of
saw unfold on what I thought was a fake reality
show where I didn't need to worry about the validity
of my relationship, was in fact laced in a lot
of truth, which has been so probably one of the
(28:09):
most craziest, intense, awful, horrific experiences I've ever probably gone
through in my adult life. But the truth of the
matter is I decided to show up for my partner
and hold up my end of the bargain of being
(28:30):
in a partnership and being a teammate and I flew
across the world to support and be there and hold
that person in whatever they would be experiencing leaving such
a wild experience, and instead I was dumped at the
(28:51):
after party with Chris in the next room, which is
fucking crazy to say out loud, It's truly crazy, Like
there's a lot of processing that needs to happen. I
was told that there are confused feelings there. Do with
that what you will, and that they had realized in
(29:11):
the house that I wasn't the person that they wanted
to spend the foreseeable future with, which has honestly been,
as you can probably tell by my demeanor, so shocking
that I feel kind of subhuman right now. Yeah, and
(29:35):
I feel incredibly humiliated, and I feel a bit embarrassed.
I feel like the Internet might have warned me a
little bit, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I guess didn't listen. You would be absolutely fuming, and
you could really tell from Cast's response that they were
in ut of shock. I did find it quite fascinating
to hear from someone who works in the television industry
that they were convinced that it was all just manufactured drama.
And I think it's clear that that's because Kath wanted
(30:07):
to believe this and they were convinced that their partner
wouldn't treat them in this way, because Kath made it
pretty clear that they fell victim to some pretty intense
love bombing early on in their relationship with Jojo. Kath
explained that Jojo told them that they were the love
of her life and even asked them to marry her
before heading into their house. How utterly confusing would all
(30:28):
of this be. To put that all into perspective, Kath
and Jojo were only together for four months, so a
marriage proposal is pretty intense. It was pretty fascinating to
hear Kath drop bits and pieces about Chris because whilst
Jojo was breaking up with Kath, they claimed Jojo said
she had confused feelings in regards to Chris, so he
(30:49):
was used as an excuse for the breakup. Kath went
on to say that Jojo told them she wanted to
explore independence and certain feelings. As for how Kath felt
about Chris, they said they had opinions on him which
they won't go into, and said Jojo and Chris's relationship
is their journey and to essentially enjoy God. That was
(31:10):
very reserved of them wasn't if it was me, I
would have gone hamm. I don't think I would have
been so kind. Kath also revealed that despite their efforts
to fly halfway across the world, they were met with
a lot of anger from Jojo. Kat says Jojo had
a lot of anger around the letter and about Kath
not wanting to appear on TV. It seems like Jojo
(31:31):
has used this letter as a bit of a scapegoat
to go, oh, it's actually you, the fucked up Kath,
not me. It was really fascinating to hear what was
actually going on behind the scenes with Kath, because as
we touched on, they went offline during the last two
weeks of the show, and they admitted it was a
very upsetting time for them and they felt betrayed by
what they saw on TV. And Kath said they went
(31:52):
offline because they couldn't get clarity or talk to Jojo,
so they didn't want to jump online and speculate before
they had all the fat, which I think was very
fair of them. It was pretty evident how humiliated and
broken they were by the whole ordeal and the immense
impact that trolling has had on them, and also the
media scrutiny. It's interesting to think back to the Tally
(32:14):
Smile situation because her ex girlfriend never really had a
right of reply. We didn't have I think we had
only just started to have Instagram, but there were no
stories or anything. Yeah, people weren't putting out public statements
on their Instagram. So it is really interesting. How you know,
we've seen JoJo's side of it, We've heard from Chris Hughes,
and now we're hearing from Cath and I think it's
only fair that they got to share their point of
(32:36):
view too.
Speaker 8 (32:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And there has been an absolutely massive reaction online to
this developing story and obviously the breakup. There seems to
be a couple of camps. There was one camp of
people when the show was airing who felt like the
speculation around JoJo's friendship with Chris was homophobic. Yeah, there
was a lot of people jumping on saying, no, this
is just how queer people interact with platonic friends. It's
(32:58):
totally normal. They're very touched fear. And then following the breakup,
there was another camp of people who were utterly heartbroken
and angry on Cat's behalf and they were adamant that
they had been cheated on and JoJo's behavior was out
of line. I think there are a lot of Australians particular,
who felt like we needed to jump in and protect
Kath at all costs. Yeah, particularly because we hadn't seen
(33:19):
the show, so it's easy to look at it in
a black and white sense and be like, hang on,
this woman has cheated on her partner. Then, of course
there's the other camp who said that Kath needed to
get over it and that they shouldn't be hurt because
it's just a four month relationship. And then there's a
people who were obviously shipping the relationship from Big Brother.
There's also been a lot of people condemning Kath for
(33:40):
making a public breakup announcement on TikTok, and I want
to jump in and defend that one because Kath is
not the one who made this situation public. Jojo did.
I mean Kath had to sit back for three weeks
essentially watching their partner cross so many lines on international TV,
so many times humiliating, and Kath was really respectful. They
(34:03):
remained silent until they could actually speak to their partner. Yeah, exactly,
And I found it really interesting to hear Abby Chatfield's
take on the situation. As we touched on, she is
friends with Kath, and she explained that she has actually
met Jojo a handful of times and she thought that
she was lovely and mature, but then said this situation
has proved otherwise. Abby went on to call Jojo a
(34:26):
professional rage beta and said she would have been aware
of the ramifications this fallout would have on Kath.
Speaker 9 (34:34):
She is a career reality TV stuff, right, She's incredibly
good at it, she's incredibly smart, she's very hard working,
very successful. But she is a rage beta, right.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
We're all aware of that.
Speaker 9 (34:52):
We all know that she knows that any publicity is
good publicity. It's gotten her career, it's elevated her career.
She's very talented in many ways. I don't want to
talk shit about her, but.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
It's elevated her career. It's really blown up her career,
particularly on TikTok.
Speaker 9 (35:11):
And that's great that she's kind of cracked that formula.
But my issue is in knowing that and being intentional
with that. In JoJo's everyday life and career.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
She's aware of how media cycles work, and she's completely
aware of what stories media runs with. She's aware of
how the public react to things and how to get
the public enraged, I think, and I would hope it
wasn't the case. I think my issue is more that
she wasn't aware or cognizant of the potential ramifications for
(35:45):
Kath in this whole thing.
Speaker 9 (35:47):
Cath has been collateral damage.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think Abby hit the nail on the head there
by calling Jojo a professional rage baita. She is incredibly
savvy online and in her dealings with the media, and
she's been expl strategy and manipulation from an early age,
so she would be very aware of how this relationship
would have played out, not only in the media but online.
And she would have known that Cath would have been
sitting at home watching on feeling completely helpless, and to
(36:14):
make matters worse, she would have been aware that there
would have been trolling involved. Now, following her departure from
the show, Jojo appeared on ITV's Morning Show alongside Chris Hughes. Yeah,
that was very interesting. The Big Brother producers clearly know
what they're doing. Everyone wanted to see their dynamic together
outside of the house. Yeah, and of course Kath's very
public breakup announcement had gone live, so Jojo took the
(36:38):
opportunity to say that she hadn't been happy in the
relationship for quite some time. Here's more of what she said.
Speaker 7 (36:45):
Honestly, D three, I was now in my own thoughts,
away from everyone that I know, away from outside opinions,
away from everything, and I sat with myself, and from
that point on, I really realized things that I was
okay with my life that I should never have been
okay with in the you mean, your relationship, and just
so many things.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
That is one of them, but so many things.
Speaker 7 (37:08):
And then I, you know, obviously I wanted to hold
them inside though, because I didn't want to air that
out very publicly. But there were countless things that I
was like, that's not, you know, something that I should
be okay with and I don't need to be okay
with and I'm not happy, And I knew as soon
as I got out, I wanted to fix things in
(37:29):
my life and make the changes that I needed to make.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I feel like it's a bit rich to come out
and say, oh, I just haven't been happy for so long.
It's a full month relationship where you have apparently proposed
to the person right before going into the house. You're
in the honeymoon period. Like, what is going on now?
The morning show host Ben Shephard remarked that Jojo in
fact did act very quickly, pointing out that she broke
up with Kath at the Rap party. Jojo confirmed that
(37:54):
she did break up with Kath at the Rat party,
but that she didn't plan on doing it then and
so Jojo claimed that Kath initially said that they didn't
want to attend, but then an hour in decided to
come along, Jojo said. At the party, Kat asked if
Jojo was happy, and she said no, and one thing
led to another. The host then asked, whatever, I want
(38:16):
to know what is going on between Jojo and Chris.
Here's what Chris said. They're clearly a very quite bond.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Obviously we're closely, but I think it's like our friendship
is like it's just a it's hard to expect, it's
just a really strong bond between two people, which is
just a strong friendship.
Speaker 8 (38:37):
And I think I think you can have like a
soulmate friendship. I think that's a thing. Yes, And to me,
it's like that energy of where it's not like the
standard friendship that you have with your friends. But it's
you know, it's still a friendship. You know, we are
friends and just it's just nice. And that's why I
found the whole I found it strange because it was
such a strong friendship.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Literally, take a shot. Every time Chris said friend, well,
you'd be very drunk. It seemed like he wanted to
make it very clear from his end that nothing else
was going on between them. I mean, you've only just
got her to break up with her partner, and now
you're saying, oh no, we're just friends. Like what a
slap in the face. Well, in the comment section, there
were many people who felt as though maybe Chris had
(39:18):
blindsided Jojo and maybe she thought if she dumped Cath
it would then lead to a relationship with him. Ben
the host then asked Jojo if she would like more
with Chris in the future, and here's what she said.
Speaker 8 (39:35):
And he's a gorgeous boy.
Speaker 7 (39:38):
Gorgeous boy, You're a gorgeous girl. Look, he's a great guy.
It is platonic. We have a lot of fun together.
Life is life, and I don't know any future of anything,
but I'm really grateful for our dynamic that we have
in our bond that we have and whatever life does,
life will do.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
What I read into this is that Jojo very much
wants something with Chris, and she is planning on exploring
this relationship. I think that Chris probably is as well.
He was probably just trying to play it down to
try and not appear to be the bad guy in
the situation, because, to be real, Jojo was the one
that was in a relationship, not him. Well, he's probably
also mindful that it's sometimes not a good look on,
(40:20):
not a good decision to jump into a relationship straight
away after another one's ended. I mean, they also live
in different countries, so maybe I mean, being thirty two,
maybe he's a bit more mature and wants to see
how this would all work. I find the way that
they keep calling one another friendship soulmates quite odd. It's
a bit of wyank, isn't it. Let's be honest, what's
going on. There's a lot of sexual tension there that
(40:41):
needs to be resolved, and I don't know if that'll
be friendship soulmates after that's happened. Yeah, I wonder how
long this connection will actually go on for Jojo has
been posting about Chris to her eleven point two million
followers on Instagram. She showed the pair having a tennis
match together. I believe that they spoke about playing tennis
withinside the house. To be very interesting to see how
this relationship evolves. Well, if Chris is clever from a
(41:04):
PR strategy, we want to explore this further and gain
some of those followers. Now, let's get into our Friday debrief.
And so if I want to talk to you about
Meghan Markle's first ever podcast interview on the Jamie Kern
Lemur Show. So of course she has had two podcasts
now of her own, but it's actually the first time
that she's been interviewed in a long form on a podcast.
(41:26):
And I was pretty surprised that she chose the Jamie
Kern Lima show. I have never heard of this woman,
but she is the founder of IT Cosmetics. She's also
been on Meghan's Female Founder podcast and the pair live
next door to each other, so they're great friends. And
they made such a big deal about the fact that
they were sitting in the rocking chairs that they usually
(41:48):
sit on at their house and to have these deep
conversations and they both went wearing makeup. I call absolute bullshit.
Jamie was wearing makeup. You can see she visibly had blush.
On Meghan, on the other hand, I think was bare face.
People were commenting that she had quite an intense facetan
or nobody. To be fair, that's what I'd be doing
if I was told I couldn't have any makeup on. Yeah,
(42:08):
it was quite clear there was some products being used
to achieve that no makeup makeup. Look, I'm confused by
the philosophy beyond it, though, because if you own a
makeup brand, would you not want to be promoting the
makeup that you wear on a big stage like this.
But it was all about being braw and honest. So
if you actually haven't listened to it in full, you've
only heard, Oh, I keep seeing a pomp up on
my ticktok algorithm. And it's one of those things where
(42:30):
it's no surprise to the listeners that I'm a big
fan of Meghan Markle, but I am cringing hard at
some of the moments that are being shit. See. I
think that her first podcast interview should have been with
Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy. That would have given
her some credit. This podcast was so hard to get
into because there was eight minutes of hype and it
was so American, it was so spewy. I was like,
(42:53):
just talk to Megan. I can't stand it. And it
was like, I was like, who is this woman. She's
actually interviewed Oprah before, She's got five hundred thousand followers,
but it was so cringe and I'm like, no, Megan,
this is not where you need to go. You need
to be on a good podcast where you have a
good chat, because deep down, I think she's a very
nice person. But unfortunately, because of all the press backlash,
(43:15):
she goes on these podcasts and she has to really
push and pump herself up. And she's got her friend
pumping herself up, pump her up. But I think that
she's got to pump up her relationship with Harry because
there's been a lot of speculation that their marriage is
on the rocks. Well, she did call him a fox
on the episode. She said he was a fox, and
I want to throw it to the way she spoke
about their relationship because she said that they're actually in
(43:36):
the honeymoon phase now because before they were going through
all of this crap with the royal family and they
had to hide their relationship. But this is how she
explained what Harry does for her.
Speaker 10 (43:48):
You know, I mean each that man loves me so much,
and you know, look what we've built. We've built a
beautiful lafe and we have two healthy, beautiful children, you know.
And I always think about it like the end of
Super Mario Brothers, when you get to the final final level,
what's the goal? And super Mario They're like, slay the dragon,
(44:10):
save the Princess. I'm like, that's my husband. He's just
out there, just constantly. He's just going to do whatever
he can to make sure that our family is safe
and protected and we're uplifted and still make time for depntes.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Why Meghan, Why please? I'm to have admitted this scene
from the Budker. There was also this really random story
Meghan told about meeting Baywatch star Yasmine Bleath, and all
I could think about was Chandler and Joey going on
about her on friends. So when Meghan was working in
a yogurt shop, she was taking some trash bags out
(44:45):
to the street and she saw Yazmine and she went
up to her and was like, oh my gosh, I
love you in this commercial and Yazmin said to her, Hi,
I'm Yasmin. What's your name? And she said that now
she always says that to fans when she meets him,
because she said she he felt so seen in that moment. Oh,
I quite like that story. I think that's quite a
good tactic, and it's just it's funny that it's come
(45:07):
from a former bag Watch actor, particularly because you know
she probably used that skill when she was a royal
out meeting the public. Yeah, it is a good tip.
I also enjoyed hearing the backstory of why Megan calls
Harry h and he calls her m And it was
all to do with the fact that they had to
talk in codes while they were dating. And it's just stuck.
And I mean, it does come across as a little
(45:28):
bit insufferable, but then I think about how I always
call my husband darling and it started off as a
joke and it's just stuck. It does make more sense
now hearing that they had to speak in code. But
I think age in particular isn't a letter that rolls
off the tongue easily. I mean, I'm glad that they
say h instead of h oh. That is my absolute
pet peeve. My husband says h and his last name
(45:50):
is Hancock, so he's always spelling it out for people
when he goes to the shops for his email, and
it just grates on me and I feel like interrupting
and being like, it's h yeah. Recent I had a
disagreement of it, and we actually ended up researching the
origins of it, and the correct way is h oh.
I've seen mixed stuff. I think it can actually be both. No,
it's not, go look into it all right. Well, I
(46:11):
think that is where we will leave things for today.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode.
If you have enjoyed it, could you please make sure
you are subscribed on Apple podcast and also Spotify. This
episode was recorded on the traditional land of the Ghana
people of the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to Elder's
past and present.
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