May 2, 2024 • 26 mins
When Aracely Esparza recounts her story, it's as if the heart of the Midwest beats in time with her words. A first-generation Chicana from Madison, Wisconsin, Aracely's narrative is a patchwork of passion, heritage, and activism that speaks to the soul of every listener. Our conversation with her is a journey through the poignant realities of Mexican-American identity as she shares her path from assisting Latino farmworkers to founding Midwest Mujeres. Her tales of growing up in Madison, overcoming racial discrimination, and the power of cultural identity captivate as they educate. Aracely doesn't just tell us her grandmother's migration story; she weaves the fabric of representation and economic empowerment into our understanding of the complexities within the Latino community.
The depth of Aracely's experiences with racial injustice unveils a humbling and inspiring resilience. In this episode, she courageously opens up about her struggles as a Chicana in the professional realm, including an unjust termination that serves as a stark reminder of the challenges women of color face. Yet, her commitment to uplifting brown and black women truly defines her work. Aracely describes how the tragedy in Chicago spurred her into action, leading to protests and vital discussions on anti-blackness. She invites us to look forward to the Minu as Mujeres corner store events to foster unity and tackle racial and gender wage gaps. Aracely's story isn’t just one of strife but an ongoing battle for justice, representation, and the transformative power of solidarity.
The depth of Aracely's experiences with racial injustice unveils a humbling and inspiring resilience. In this episode, she courageously opens up about her struggles as a Chicana in the professional realm, including an unjust termination that serves as a stark reminder of the challenges women of color face. Yet, her commitment to uplifting brown and black women truly defines her work. Aracely describes how the tragedy in Chicago spurred her into action, leading to protests and vital discussions on anti-blackness. She invites us to look forward to the Minu as Mujeres corner store events to foster unity and tackle racial and gender wage gaps. Aracely's story isn’t just one of strife but an ongoing battle for justice, representation, and the transformative power of solidarity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up everybody.
(00:00):
This is your host D-Star herewith Aracely Esparza.
How you doing?
I'm doing good.
So for the people that don'tknow you, can you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
For sure.
My name is Aracely Esparza, orAracely Esparza.
I'm a first-gen Chicana.
That means I'm afirst-generation
Mexican-American woman who wasborn and raised here in Madison,
wisconsin, and what else can Isay?
I'm a founder of anorganization called Midwest
Mujeres.
Actually, I have some strongroots right here in Sun Prairie.
(00:30):
Actually, one of my first jobsout of college was working in
rural Sun Prairie and Marshalland Watertown helping Latino
folks, first-gen immigrants, whoare working in the farms.
Wow, yeah, getting connected toservices.
I was like their translator,interpreter.
Sometimes I'd teach them how todrive too, because they would
(00:52):
be like I don't know how todrive, so I'd teach them how to
drive in the Kmart parking lot,and people remember those days.
Yeah, I've been doing a lot ofwork since the early 2000s, but
actually really since like the90s.
Yeah, like, which is funnybecause it's like also my our
30th anniversary high schoolgraduation.
(01:12):
So in my particular years ofhigh school, rodney King was
happening right, Is that EastWest, East East?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
okay.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, so Rodney King happened and we led the first.
We led the largest studentdemonstration and closed down
Eastwatch for a day or two, Ithink, actually.
Yeah, that was like what 92 orsomething.
I'm also an author and poet.
I've been publishing quite afew books and anthologies.
One of my children's storieswas animated by PBS Wisconsin.
(01:43):
I always love to put my head onthat one because I'm like, ah,
I got seven street status, likeI'm okay, the rest of the world,
oh, and I'm a mother and I'mpartner.
I'm a daughter, a nieta thatmeans granddaughter as well.
I like to curate stories.
I like to highlight women ofcolor in the state of Wisconsin.
(02:05):
Midwest women love to connectpeople.
A lot of people ask me everyday like, hey, how can I get
this help, or where can I go andget this type of help?
Yeah, I really enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So let's start with your background here in Madison.
You grew up here in Madison.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Three sisters, one brother right, yes, and I know
no.
And then I have a half sisterand a couple of half brothers
too, and the other side of thecountry, oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
So what was life like growing up as a first
generation Mexican American herein Madison?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh my gosh, I'd have to say it's not even just about
growing up, right, it's likealways growing.
Even I get micro and macroaggressed pretty regularly, I
think I think people get trippedup because I have no accent and
I'm pretty light-skinned and soI'm somewhat in that passing
realm of colorism but I have alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
When you say passing for the people that don't know,
what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I guess a high yellow latte with the extra latte.
Um, what does what does thatmean?
What has that meant for me inmy life is that I witnessed
racial discrimination and I didas a child, many times towards
my grandmother, who wassignificantly shorter than me,
more indigenous, looking brown,you know.
(03:22):
She barely could speak spanishand I mean, sorry, spoke all
spanish, couldn't speak a lot ofenglish, though she could read
and write in english fairly well, and the assumptions that we
were undocumented, when in factmy grandmother was part of the
program from the 1900s, 1920sactually, and she migrated here
when she was nine months old andbecause of her little
fingerprint that was kept,apparently, she was able to then
(03:45):
come back here in her fiftiesand almost restart her life all
over again and she brought overmy mother and my uncle and
that's how I ended up cominghere.
My father followed my mom overhere, I guess, and they had me.
We had a lot of travelingbetween here and Chicago, so she
, my grandmother, ended up herebecause she, she was a migrant
(04:11):
worker, so she worked the fieldsall the way up the country,
through Nebraska and then Wausau, actually in Wautoma, and was
working in the cannery factoriesthere up North, by Berlin, by
New Berlin, wisconsin, and thensomehow got a job that ended up
landing her over here and theyended up working at UW as
custodial yes, for many, many,many, many years.
They both retired from that work.
(04:31):
But yeah, I think growing up inMadison it's just it leaves you
a little triggered.
I didn't do my undergrad here,I didn't do my master's here for
very specific reasons, but oneof them being just not feeling
belonging.
One of them was like I reallyneed to be where, and I was just
talking about this last night,about how where I've been in
other places besides here havehelped me come back, almost
(04:51):
because I needed to go away tosee brown, black people
empowered economically andsocially.
I needed to see that.
I needed to be validated bythat in order to come back here
with a stronger sense of who Iwas.
Just last week, I was called outfor not being indigenous and
although if you knew really thehistory of being Mexican, you
(05:12):
would understand that it goeshand in hand, just because we're
not a federally recognizedtribe does not mean that we're
not indigenous, right?
So there's all these nuances toidentity, to Mexican-American
identity, that we don't talkabout enough about and then to
like being now put under theumbrella, and this is the first
year the census, the us census,is actually going to break down
all those categories for us,because puerto rican mujer, una
(05:36):
boricua como tu esposa, que esmuy bella yep she'll tell you.
She'll tell you we don't eat thesame we don't do the same.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
it it's different, it's very different.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
It's almost muy diferentes and that's beautiful,
though that's beautiful, Iappreciate their struggle.
I feel like, out of all theLatino countries, between
Mexicans and Puerto Ricans,we're very much the same in that
history of being so close andit gets dangerous when you're
that close sometimes to thecolonization process.
It's dangerous when you're thatclose sometimes to the
(06:06):
colonization process.
Yeah, one thing that I doremember about like growing up
here was like my guidancecounselor.
When I would go see him and getguidance, he would clip his
fingernails in front of me.
I know gross, right, I'm like sogross, but also like super
disrespectful.
I am so glad that the one thing, I'm just so glad that I was
(06:26):
able to get out of here and goto college somewhere else and do
all the things that weredifferent, and that I and
because of my family's status, Iwas able to travel extensively
to Mexico growing up andthroughout, giving me
opportunities to see folks inNebraska, texas, california, new
York, in Florida, in all thoseplaces California, new York,
tuscaloosa, florida, in todosesos lugares, in all those
(06:46):
places because we would travelto visit family and stuff and I
was able to travel throughout,maybe on a bus, on Greyhound
Please don't make it seem likeit was a luxurious drive because
that wasn't all the time right,but out of necessity, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know it's funny, like when people say mexican,
american, we've just beenprogrammed to think
automatically illegal, oh yeahillegal undocumented my
grandmother came over here andyou just think that, okay, she
came over here secretively ohright, you know what I mean.
It's never like know that'scool.
(07:24):
They came over here just likeeverybody else came over here.
You know they came over herewith great intentions and trying
to start a new life and thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, the government actually recruited Mexican folks
to come up here during WorldWar II.
That's why they came up here.
Why her father was coming uphere was to work because
everybody was out fighting.
And they'll do that.
Every once in a while They'llgo into another country and be
like come over here and work forus and it's like what you love
us and you hate us.
Yes, we'll give you acitizenship.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And when we're done with you, we're going to treat
you like garbage.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Thank you, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
That's just what it is.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's true, you know I'm not saying anything, that's
not true.
You keep saying that you gotout of here.
Where did you go?
As far as college is concerned,u of m, twin cities, yeah, but
I spent some time, too, livingin new jersey as well, in
inglewood actually, andspecifically during the time of
sandy hook and hurricane sandy.
Wow, those years were reallyvery difficult again.
That atmosphere, it was just sodifferent from here just again
to see brown and black people.
I mean, it was the first time Iever, like, was treated with so
much respect at a store.
Ma'am, can I help you, ma'am?
(08:31):
And I was like I'm a ma'am.
I know I didn't know whether tobe triggered by calling a ma'am
or like was I happy that I,instead of being followed in a
store, I was actually greetedand encouraged to buy?
I was like really confused whenyou went to college.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What did you go to college for?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
oh, chicano studies and criminology.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Chicano studies and criminology.
So you came back here toMadison reinvigorated, yeah, and
inspired, and you wanted to dosomething for the Latino
community yeah.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, I was living on Williamson Street and Tequila
was my neighbor and she workedfor Fountain of Life, actually
for Nehemiah Pastor Alex G, whoin those times, who would have
known he would have become whohe is now?
Like in those days, like it wasa very small organization, we
(09:26):
were company contracted and Ihad really very small other
prospects as far as, like, whereto work.
I mean, this is before linkedin, this is before.
Yeah, like a lot of thingshadn't happened just yet, right,
the internet was just barelygetting off and stuff.
Like it was.
Just it was a very differenttime than it is now paper
applications oh gosh, yes, Ihate it.
(09:47):
That was so bad, or looking atnewspaper and stuff like that.
It was just and being a singlemom at the time.
So I was a single mom for likeclose to nine years.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Oh, wow, yeah, oh yeah, how many kids.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I have one as a single mom.
I had one and now I have two.
Yeah, and at the time it waslike I had to work for Addict
Correctional Facilities.
I worked at like differentplaces.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So what inspired you to start your own company and to
take up this fight for the wagegap between black and brown
women in this community?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So what he's talking about is Midwest Mujeres, and
our mission is to close thegender wage gap, one story at a
time, and we do that bymentoring women, providing them
a digital space for them toreceive referrals and services
and coaching, and we train them,we give them a safe space and I
(10:42):
hate to use that word safespace, but really a space where
it's a container, right.
It's safe in the sense thatwhatever they're going to say
there is going to be okay, it'sa container, right.
It's safe in the sense thatwhatever they're going to say
there is going to be okay, it'sgoing to be accepted, it's not
going to be judged.
And we cultivate their voice tobring out this beautiful
harmony of a concompany ofdifferent stories that talk
about the resiliency that theyhad to go through to survive the
(11:05):
gender wage gap, and so that'swhat we do every year.
We've been doing this now forfour years.
And it wage gap, and so that'swhat we do every year.
We've been doing this now forfour years and it's woman led,
but we do have men.
Hey Gio, hey Johnny, we havequite a few men.
It's growing every day, likeevery day, we still have more
men, including my husband too.
I mean, has been there sincethe beginning to assisting us
either with setup with, you know, recruitment of sponsors,
(11:26):
videography, all of those thingsthat the men have really
stepped up.
Knowing that they are a part ofthe solution for closing the
gender wage gap is so important.
But what led me to that wasreally releasing my own story
and noticing how powerful thatwas, and that all happened at
the 2019 Martin Luther King Day.
(11:48):
I was fired over racialdiscrimination from a very
prominent nonprofit organization, so we talked about my journey
in the early 2000s throughNehemiah and various different
other nonprofits.
I had worked my way up from,like, basically, social service
coordinator to director ofmarketing and outreach for over
60 organizations regionallyDoing giving days that were
(12:11):
totaling over $400,000.
I didn't do that just once.
I did that over three times,over three years, and so I had,
you know, I felt like I hadfinally arrived, that this was
where I'm going to lay my quotaon and, yeah, it didn't work
that way.
I guess, you know, as they say,god had some other plans.
I found myself about threeweeks later in an elevator
(12:33):
crying and my grandmother'shands are like because I'm about
to fight this woman.
I chased her out of a party.
I'm about to beat her.
I feel my grandmother's hand onmy shoulder because my
grandmother had passed onFebruary 19th and she had only
had passed a couple of weeks andshe's like ponle las manos de
Dios, put in god's hands.
So I know the history of yourpodcast.
(12:54):
You know what I'm saying.
Like your mission, I've been injail.
I've been locked up too.
As a teenager I was locked upquite a few times.
Um, you know, I'm in milwaukee,outside of madison, okay, so
yeah, I know the cell life andyeah, and you know, stuff
(13:14):
happened to me too in my earlytwenties.
You know where that could havehappened to and it was a very
real threat in my life.
When I say this, the story,just to say that there are all
heavily moments where you youknow you're at a cross
crossroads, your anger can takeyou somewhere, and even I had
left that as a teenager.
That life I thought I did.
(13:35):
It came up.
I know I acted wrong.
I know I was going to be, doingwrong.
I'm so glad when that elevatoropened that she wasn't there.
I started laughing.
I was happy.
I was like, oh my gosh, I'm soglad that woman ran away.
I don't know what I would havedone.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So what was the situation surrounding your
termination?
Why did you feel that it wasracially motivated?
Oh, I could tell you all thedetails.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I mean, I know I don't feel it.
We know it right, we know it inour bone when we're being
racially discriminated andprofiled.
So, like you know being toldthat she couldn't understand me,
that I was like from anotherplanet, slamming doors, slamming
her hands, you know just likemaking us.
You know chasing me out, youknow asking me about certain
(14:23):
people's anatomies.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So she was saying, like she couldn't understand you
, like you didn't speak English.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yes, good English, yes, good enough, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
But she does know that you were born here, right?
I mean yeah, You're a Chicana,I mean you hear me all your
audience can hear my.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
English Most of the time.
Most people don't even know I'mLatina unless they see me.
They only ever met me over thephone.
Yeah, I'm a pretty goodparakeet.
I mean, that is why we you know, those are the resilience
things that we utilize, almostto the point of determining
ourselves Like it hurts us to bethis resilient.
So yeah, no, it was really.
(15:02):
It was really shocking.
Actually, it was very abusive.
It was very shocking.
I don't even think it wasracial discrimination, so much
as racial harassment.
Even my sexuality was put ondisplay there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So like the way you dress.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Oh no, insinuating that we were in a relationship
and thought that was appropriateto say in front of a whole
group of a morning meeting.
So I was asked most people mostpeople, women of color are in
meetings.
That's where they get us,because they know that we're
either going to feed thestereotype that we're angry and
out of control because we can'tbe anything but sexy.
(15:35):
Angry and out of control that'swhat most people think about
Latinas.
But they don't think that we'reintelligent, that we have
master's degrees like me, thatI've been in several anthologies
, that I have the capacity toraise hundreds of thousands of
dollars, that I know aboutcommunity engagement, that I'm a
national and becoming now aninternational consultant for
(15:56):
community development.
And that's real.
Those are real accomplishmentsthat I've done ever since 2019.
And the only thing that saved mefrom that was when George was
murdered on 36 in Chicago.
And how do I know that isbecause I told you I did my
undergrad over there.
I was on the bus all the time.
I know where he was killed.
(16:17):
I used to make fun of thatSam's store because that store
sounds like Cub Foods, but it'snot.
I'm like.
It's like, really, the storeyou know, I'm like anyways.
So all those things happened toget me out of the depression of
being racially harassed and itwas a real beautiful journey
that I was able to throw myselfinto.
(16:37):
What, nationwide, everybody wasfeeling was that there was a,
there was somebody that wasbrutally killed and we all
watched it.
He was murdered and over over apack of cigarettes and a $20
bill.
Um, I'm sorry for gettingemotional about it.
It's just like I just rememberso bad, like I know it was bad
that he died, but it was alsolike such a beautiful movement
(16:58):
because at the same time I feltthat I could put myself in that
movement.
I was downtown a lot of times,you know, with the protesters
and stuff like that, and I woulddo a lot of like.
I started doing my FacebookLives, like it was called the
and you can see them on YouTubeand you know it was a Latino
talkback on the anti-blacknessin the Latino community and I
(17:22):
started hosting these with likefolks like joe mandalado, where
he's going state representativethat's what he's up to right now
.
He started on doing some toptalk shout out to joe I love joe
exactly same three things.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
A joke with joe if you're, if you cool with him is
he's.
He's a great jokester, he'shilarious.
You are putting together aseries of events that's coming
up soon.
Um, can you share with us whatthese events are, how people can
get involved, how can theydonate, how can they attend?
Tell us about these amazingevents that you've put together
(17:58):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So that's the corner store.
Minu as mujeres is ourquarterly annual events that we
have.
They're specifically marketedfor brown and black audiences.
I do that on purpose, becausethe more we are together, the
more we can fight back on thisgender wage gap, this racial
wage gap.
They pin us against each otherWay too often.
They pin Latinos and blackfolks against each other and I
(18:21):
have not seen that unity.
But the first job I ever had wasPastor Alex G.
There was no other organizationthat embraced me as much as
Nehemiah did and from that youknow it just showed to me and my
grandmother was always sheinstilled that in me when she
was working as a maquinadora andthat means a seamstress.
She would make Levi's right inMexico and she said one of her
supervisors was African Americanfrom the United States and they
(18:44):
started talking and he wouldteach her a couple words in
English.
She told him and then she toldhim her story about maybe she
could come to the US, that shewas curious about, that.
She even knew his name andeverything.
Had it not been for this likegentleman who got thrown into
Mexico to oversee a factory, mygrandmother may have never come
to this United States.
She would have never had thefuerza, las ganas, the
(19:07):
confidence to come and just see,are my fingerprints still at
the border.
Maybe I can come throughbecause I'm over here, like with
twins, she had four kids.
She had these two twins and shehad to feed them.
And my mom talks about how sheate a bag of sugar because she
was so damn hungry.
So had it not been for thattype of unity, I wouldn't be
here.
And so that's what my honor toMidwest Mojeres is, and that's
(19:30):
why it doesn't mean that I'vearrived to like some sort of
elevated state of knowing.
No, I have bad tapes in my headtoo.
I have total bad tapes.
I grew up here.
Of course I'm going to have badthings being said in my head,
but I admit them, I say sorry tothem, I say sorry to myself and
I move on.
And I think that's how weshould all handle our prejudices
(19:51):
is by apologizing and thenapologizing to ourselves.
And that's why we are veryfortunate to have these events
that are sponsored by localorganizations like Summit Credit
Union, willie Street Co-op, theWisconsin Economic Development
and Old National Bank, americanInsurance.
They've all really invested inMidwest Mojeres.
(20:12):
They understand the need forunity, they understand the need
for innovation.
These are innovative momentswhere brown and black folks can
get together and talk freely,get to know each other, because
for too long we've beenseparated in this community on
purpose.
The next events are coming up onSaturday, may 18th, at the
starting block at the SparkBuilding at 821 East Washington.
(20:34):
It starts at 11 o'clock, Ibelieve.
Junk Food Junkie she's a localAngela Morgan.
She's going to be catering us.
I always like to hire a blackor a Latina caterer for us and
so from 11 to 12, people canenjoy free food.
We'll be meeting up on thethird floor.
We need volunteers.
I will say that is my call intoaction.
(20:54):
Please connect with me becausewe still need volunteers.
If anyone knows about the SparkBuilding.
We do need people to help usescort people up and known, so
that's really well needed.
Still, and then from 12 to 1 forthe first time ever, we're
going to have a latina frommilwaukee who speaks only in
spanish, because myspanish-speaking community
(21:14):
really loves us.
But they want to like have somecontent for themselves too.
So we have a coach, adriana,and she's going to talk about
how to reinvent yourself withoutblowing up.
But in Spanish it makes morefun sense.
I know when I translate itdon't make it justice, but in
Spanish it sounds really cool.
And then we're going to havekind of like fashion show, maybe
(21:36):
like teaching people like whatis a good cut, what is a bad cut
, like what to wear for fashion.
So Laura Fitzzgerald whitewoman, ally, love laura.
She's amazing, used to work formadisoncom.
She's coming over with herfashion tips.
We have also another brandstylist, maria styles, is coming
and then we're going to closeoff with a panel discussion
talking about the brown blackchallenges for networking in our
(21:59):
midwestern community.
So that's on sat, may 18th, andthen on Saturday, june 15th, is
our annual event at the my ArtsTheater.
Our histories, our stories havevalue.
We have networking at oneo'clock, the event is at two
We'll have some light horsd'oeuvres.
This is a family-friendly event.
We highlight brown and blackwomen who come and tell their
(22:20):
stories.
This is after a month ofintense storytelling training.
They meet with me weekly sothat they can craft their
stories.
Who are these women?
They are your neighbors, theyare your friends.
Some of these women wereselected through Wisconsin Life,
their podcast has beenhighlighting every Friday a
story from one of our MidwestMoedas women.
Shout out to Wisconsin, towisconsin life yeah, yeah,
(22:42):
they're great, they're doingamazing things and they allowed
me to curate um, their women'shistory month uh selection there
.
So that was just such a treat,such a treat for me to to work
with them and um, highlightthese women and their stories,
some of these women.
The impact is just phenomenal.
They get either more contractsfor work, get more speaking
(23:03):
engagements, they get invited toother podcasts, they become
life coaches.
One of them scaled her businessLike she was on stage, she had
no employees, and now she haslike five employees yeah, she's
a CPA, victoria and that Karennegotiated like, I think like
10% more of her salary.
And, you know, dr SagaciousLivingston has now, you know,
(23:24):
starting her Infamous Motherplatform, just launching that,
and so it's a starting point fora lot of women.
It's that turning point.
It's just that one thing youneed to kind of like and that's
what the power of a theatricalstage will do for your life.
It's nothing like anything,it's something very
transformational.
You know, in Mexican culture wehave things like quinceañeras,
(23:49):
right, it's like that coming toage thing and you do a quince
and you go.
You don't have that as grownwomen.
I kind of feel like this is ourquince, for us mujeres who have
built something, tried to dosomething different, in spite of
the gender wage gap or racialdiscrimination in the workforce,
or being previouslyincarcerated or having domestic
violence in your life, or beinga survivor of sexual assault, or
(24:09):
of being a single parent, or ofyour criminal history.
Multitudes of survival storiesare woven in here being an
immigrant, not knowing how tospeak English, et cetera, et
cetera.
The list goes on.
And that's what these womenneed is just a stage, do that
Kind of have your bendición, getyour blessings, your flores,
and a stage so people can hearyou, hear what that is.
(24:30):
It's a very transformational,special moment and no, it's not
just for women.
Men ask me that all the time.
It's like, obviously, bring,come, come with your kids, come
with your abuelitas.
Is this a free event?
It's very inexpensive to go.
Pretty much, we do getsponsorships that way.
Towards the end, we people livein the darbo neighborhood.
We'll get, we'll get a specialcode for that.
Just hit me up it's literally25 bucks.
(24:52):
Like it's not that expensive.
I think it's very affordable alot of that time.
You know what I'm saying we'reoffsetting that yeah, just the
platform cost the.
we all deserve money.
The I Want money is like twofor 10 right now.
It's like literally five bucks,and I think I have a special
going on two for 25 right now aswell for the Myers Theater, and
(25:13):
we'll be floating some morefree tickets as we get closer to
the date.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Absolutely.
Yeah Well, thank you so muchfor putting on these events to
promote unity between black andbrown people.
We really appreciate that, andthank you for stopping by the
platform.
We really appreciate you andall of the things that you've
done in the community and youcontinue to do.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Absolutely do.
This is awesome.
I'm so glad to get to get partof, you know, the Out of Box
podcast, part of you know theout of box podcast.
I've just seen you grown aswell in these last few years and
I'm like I'm sitting y'allfolks and the brother has like
six awards.
You know, so beautiful, it's sobeautiful and it just shows to
like that you also are a storycatcher and it's it's a
(25:59):
privilege right, it's aprivilege to hold all of these
stories in a container.
So thank you so much for makingme feel welcome here.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's no problem, I'm D-Star Until next time, guys.
What's up everybody.
(00:00):
This is your host D-Star herewith Aracely Esparza.
How you doing?
I'm doing good.
So for the people that don'tknow you, can you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
For sure.
My name is Aracely Esparza, orAracely Esparza.
I'm a first-gen Chicana.
That means I'm afirst-generation
Mexican-American woman who wasborn and raised here in Madison,
wisconsin, and what else can Isay?
I'm a founder of anorganization called Midwest
Mujeres.
Actually, I have some strongroots right here in Sun Prairie.
(00:30):
Actually, one of my first jobsout of college was working in
rural Sun Prairie and Marshalland Watertown helping Latino
folks, first-gen immigrants, whoare working in the farms.
Wow, yeah, getting connected toservices.
I was like their translator,interpreter.
Sometimes I'd teach them how todrive too, because they would
(00:52):
be like I don't know how todrive, so I'd teach them how to
drive in the Kmart parking lot,and people remember those days.
Yeah, I've been doing a lot ofwork since the early 2000s, but
actually really since like the90s.
Yeah, like, which is funnybecause it's like also my our
30th anniversary high schoolgraduation.
(01:12):
So in my particular years ofhigh school, rodney King was
happening right, Is that EastWest, East East?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
okay.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, so Rodney King happened and we led the first.
We led the largest studentdemonstration and closed down
Eastwatch for a day or two, Ithink, actually.
Yeah, that was like what 92 orsomething.
I'm also an author and poet.
I've been publishing quite afew books and anthologies.
One of my children's storieswas animated by PBS Wisconsin.
(01:43):
I always love to put my head onthat one because I'm like, ah,
I got seven street status, likeI'm okay, the rest of the world,
oh, and I'm a mother and I'mpartner.
I'm a daughter, a nieta thatmeans granddaughter as well.
I like to curate stories.
I like to highlight women ofcolor in the state of Wisconsin.
(02:05):
Midwest women love to connectpeople.
A lot of people ask me everyday like, hey, how can I get
this help, or where can I go andget this type of help?
Yeah, I really enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So let's start with your background here in Madison.
You grew up here in Madison.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Three sisters, one brother right, yes, and I know
no.
And then I have a half sisterand a couple of half brothers
too, and the other side of thecountry, oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
So what was life like growing up as a first
generation Mexican American herein Madison?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh my gosh, I'd have to say it's not even just about
growing up, right, it's likealways growing.
Even I get micro and macroaggressed pretty regularly, I
think I think people get trippedup because I have no accent and
I'm pretty light-skinned and soI'm somewhat in that passing
realm of colorism but I have alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
When you say passing for the people that don't know,
what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I guess a high yellow latte with the extra latte.
Um, what does what does thatmean?
What has that meant for me inmy life is that I witnessed
racial discrimination and I didas a child, many times towards
my grandmother, who wassignificantly shorter than me,
more indigenous, looking brown,you know.
(03:22):
She barely could speak spanishand I mean, sorry, spoke all
spanish, couldn't speak a lot ofenglish, though she could read
and write in english fairly well, and the assumptions that we
were undocumented, when in factmy grandmother was part of the
program from the 1900s, 1920sactually, and she migrated here
when she was nine months old andbecause of her little
fingerprint that was kept,apparently, she was able to then
(03:45):
come back here in her fiftiesand almost restart her life all
over again and she brought overmy mother and my uncle and
that's how I ended up cominghere.
My father followed my mom overhere, I guess, and they had me.
We had a lot of travelingbetween here and Chicago, so she
, my grandmother, ended up herebecause she, she was a migrant
(04:11):
worker, so she worked the fieldsall the way up the country,
through Nebraska and then Wausau, actually in Wautoma, and was
working in the cannery factoriesthere up North, by Berlin, by
New Berlin, wisconsin, and thensomehow got a job that ended up
landing her over here and theyended up working at UW as
custodial yes, for many, many,many, many years.
They both retired from that work.
(04:31):
But yeah, I think growing up inMadison it's just it leaves you
a little triggered.
I didn't do my undergrad here,I didn't do my master's here for
very specific reasons, but oneof them being just not feeling
belonging.
One of them was like I reallyneed to be where, and I was just
talking about this last night,about how where I've been in
other places besides here havehelped me come back, almost
(04:51):
because I needed to go away tosee brown, black people
empowered economically andsocially.
I needed to see that.
I needed to be validated bythat in order to come back here
with a stronger sense of who Iwas.
Just last week, I was called outfor not being indigenous and
although if you knew really thehistory of being Mexican, you
(05:12):
would understand that it goeshand in hand, just because we're
not a federally recognizedtribe does not mean that we're
not indigenous, right?
So there's all these nuances toidentity, to Mexican-American
identity, that we don't talkabout enough about and then to
like being now put under theumbrella, and this is the first
year the census, the us census,is actually going to break down
all those categories for us,because puerto rican mujer, una
(05:36):
boricua como tu esposa, que esmuy bella yep she'll tell you.
She'll tell you we don't eat thesame we don't do the same.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
it it's different, it's very different.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
It's almost muy diferentes and that's beautiful,
though that's beautiful, Iappreciate their struggle.
I feel like, out of all theLatino countries, between
Mexicans and Puerto Ricans,we're very much the same in that
history of being so close andit gets dangerous when you're
that close sometimes to thecolonization process.
It's dangerous when you're thatclose sometimes to the
(06:06):
colonization process.
Yeah, one thing that I doremember about like growing up
here was like my guidancecounselor.
When I would go see him and getguidance, he would clip his
fingernails in front of me.
I know gross, right, I'm like sogross, but also like super
disrespectful.
I am so glad that the one thing, I'm just so glad that I was
(06:26):
able to get out of here and goto college somewhere else and do
all the things that weredifferent, and that I and
because of my family's status, Iwas able to travel extensively
to Mexico growing up andthroughout, giving me
opportunities to see folks inNebraska, texas, california, new
York, in Florida, in all thoseplaces California, new York,
tuscaloosa, florida, in todosesos lugares, in all those
(06:46):
places because we would travelto visit family and stuff and I
was able to travel throughout,maybe on a bus, on Greyhound
Please don't make it seem likeit was a luxurious drive because
that wasn't all the time right,but out of necessity, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know it's funny, like when people say mexican,
american, we've just beenprogrammed to think
automatically illegal, oh yeahillegal undocumented my
grandmother came over here andyou just think that, okay, she
came over here secretively ohright, you know what I mean.
It's never like know that'scool.
(07:24):
They came over here just likeeverybody else came over here.
You know they came over herewith great intentions and trying
to start a new life and thingslike that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, the government actually recruited Mexican folks
to come up here during WorldWar II.
That's why they came up here.
Why her father was coming uphere was to work because
everybody was out fighting.
And they'll do that.
Every once in a while They'llgo into another country and be
like come over here and work forus and it's like what you love
us and you hate us.
Yes, we'll give you acitizenship.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And when we're done with you, we're going to treat
you like garbage.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Thank you, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
That's just what it is.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
It's true, you know I'm not saying anything, that's
not true.
You keep saying that you gotout of here.
Where did you go?
As far as college is concerned,u of m, twin cities, yeah, but
I spent some time, too, livingin new jersey as well, in
inglewood actually, andspecifically during the time of
sandy hook and hurricane sandy.
Wow, those years were reallyvery difficult again.
That atmosphere, it was just sodifferent from here just again
to see brown and black people.
I mean, it was the first time Iever, like, was treated with so
much respect at a store.
Ma'am, can I help you, ma'am?
(08:31):
And I was like I'm a ma'am.
I know I didn't know whether tobe triggered by calling a ma'am
or like was I happy that I,instead of being followed in a
store, I was actually greetedand encouraged to buy?
I was like really confused whenyou went to college.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What did you go to college for?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
oh, chicano studies and criminology.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Chicano studies and criminology.
So you came back here toMadison reinvigorated, yeah, and
inspired, and you wanted to dosomething for the Latino
community yeah.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, I was living on Williamson Street and Tequila
was my neighbor and she workedfor Fountain of Life, actually
for Nehemiah Pastor Alex G, whoin those times, who would have
known he would have become whohe is now?
Like in those days, like it wasa very small organization, we
(09:26):
were company contracted and Ihad really very small other
prospects as far as, like, whereto work.
I mean, this is before linkedin, this is before.
Yeah, like a lot of thingshadn't happened just yet, right,
the internet was just barelygetting off and stuff.
Like it was.
Just it was a very differenttime than it is now paper
applications oh gosh, yes, Ihate it.
(09:47):
That was so bad, or looking atnewspaper and stuff like that.
It was just and being a singlemom at the time.
So I was a single mom for likeclose to nine years.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Oh, wow, yeah, oh yeah, how many kids.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I have one as a single mom.
I had one and now I have two.
Yeah, and at the time it waslike I had to work for Addict
Correctional Facilities.
I worked at like differentplaces.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
So what inspired you to start your own company and to
take up this fight for the wagegap between black and brown
women in this community?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So what he's talking about is Midwest Mujeres, and
our mission is to close thegender wage gap, one story at a
time, and we do that bymentoring women, providing them
a digital space for them toreceive referrals and services
and coaching, and we train them,we give them a safe space and I
(10:42):
hate to use that word safespace, but really a space where
it's a container, right.
It's safe in the sense thatwhatever they're going to say
there is going to be okay, it'sa container, right.
It's safe in the sense thatwhatever they're going to say
there is going to be okay, it'sgoing to be accepted, it's not
going to be judged.
And we cultivate their voice tobring out this beautiful
harmony of a concompany ofdifferent stories that talk
about the resiliency that theyhad to go through to survive the
(11:05):
gender wage gap, and so that'swhat we do every year.
We've been doing this now forfour years.
And it wage gap, and so that'swhat we do every year.
We've been doing this now forfour years and it's woman led,
but we do have men.
Hey Gio, hey Johnny, we havequite a few men.
It's growing every day, likeevery day, we still have more
men, including my husband too.
I mean, has been there sincethe beginning to assisting us
either with setup with, you know, recruitment of sponsors,
(11:26):
videography, all of those thingsthat the men have really
stepped up.
Knowing that they are a part ofthe solution for closing the
gender wage gap is so important.
But what led me to that wasreally releasing my own story
and noticing how powerful thatwas, and that all happened at
the 2019 Martin Luther King Day.
(11:48):
I was fired over racialdiscrimination from a very
prominent nonprofit organization, so we talked about my journey
in the early 2000s throughNehemiah and various different
other nonprofits.
I had worked my way up from,like, basically, social service
coordinator to director ofmarketing and outreach for over
60 organizations regionallyDoing giving days that were
(12:11):
totaling over $400,000.
I didn't do that just once.
I did that over three times,over three years, and so I had,
you know, I felt like I hadfinally arrived, that this was
where I'm going to lay my quotaon and, yeah, it didn't work
that way.
I guess, you know, as they say,god had some other plans.
I found myself about threeweeks later in an elevator
(12:33):
crying and my grandmother'shands are like because I'm about
to fight this woman.
I chased her out of a party.
I'm about to beat her.
I feel my grandmother's hand onmy shoulder because my
grandmother had passed onFebruary 19th and she had only
had passed a couple of weeks andshe's like ponle las manos de
Dios, put in god's hands.
So I know the history of yourpodcast.
(12:54):
You know what I'm saying.
Like your mission, I've been injail.
I've been locked up too.
As a teenager I was locked upquite a few times.
Um, you know, I'm in milwaukee,outside of madison, okay, so
yeah, I know the cell life andyeah, and you know, stuff
(13:14):
happened to me too in my earlytwenties.
You know where that could havehappened to and it was a very
real threat in my life.
When I say this, the story,just to say that there are all
heavily moments where you youknow you're at a cross
crossroads, your anger can takeyou somewhere, and even I had
left that as a teenager.
That life I thought I did.
(13:35):
It came up.
I know I acted wrong.
I know I was going to be, doingwrong.
I'm so glad when that elevatoropened that she wasn't there.
I started laughing.
I was happy.
I was like, oh my gosh, I'm soglad that woman ran away.
I don't know what I would havedone.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So what was the situation surrounding your
termination?
Why did you feel that it wasracially motivated?
Oh, I could tell you all thedetails.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I mean, I know I don't feel it.
We know it right, we know it inour bone when we're being
racially discriminated andprofiled.
So, like you know being toldthat she couldn't understand me,
that I was like from anotherplanet, slamming doors, slamming
her hands, you know just likemaking us.
You know chasing me out, youknow asking me about certain
(14:23):
people's anatomies.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So she was saying, like she couldn't understand you
, like you didn't speak English.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yes, good English, yes, good enough, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
But she does know that you were born here, right?
I mean yeah, You're a Chicana,I mean you hear me all your
audience can hear my.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
English Most of the time.
Most people don't even know I'mLatina unless they see me.
They only ever met me over thephone.
Yeah, I'm a pretty goodparakeet.
I mean, that is why we you know, those are the resilience
things that we utilize, almostto the point of determining
ourselves Like it hurts us to bethis resilient.
So yeah, no, it was really.
(15:02):
It was really shocking.
Actually, it was very abusive.
It was very shocking.
I don't even think it wasracial discrimination, so much
as racial harassment.
Even my sexuality was put ondisplay there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So like the way you dress.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Oh no, insinuating that we were in a relationship
and thought that was appropriateto say in front of a whole
group of a morning meeting.
So I was asked most people mostpeople, women of color are in
meetings.
That's where they get us,because they know that we're
either going to feed thestereotype that we're angry and
out of control because we can'tbe anything but sexy.
(15:35):
Angry and out of control that'swhat most people think about
Latinas.
But they don't think that we'reintelligent, that we have
master's degrees like me, thatI've been in several anthologies
, that I have the capacity toraise hundreds of thousands of
dollars, that I know aboutcommunity engagement, that I'm a
national and becoming now aninternational consultant for
(15:56):
community development.
And that's real.
Those are real accomplishmentsthat I've done ever since 2019.
And the only thing that saved mefrom that was when George was
murdered on 36 in Chicago.
And how do I know that isbecause I told you I did my
undergrad over there.
I was on the bus all the time.
I know where he was killed.
(16:17):
I used to make fun of thatSam's store because that store
sounds like Cub Foods, but it'snot.
I'm like.
It's like, really, the storeyou know, I'm like anyways.
So all those things happened toget me out of the depression of
being racially harassed and itwas a real beautiful journey
that I was able to throw myselfinto.
(16:37):
What, nationwide, everybody wasfeeling was that there was a,
there was somebody that wasbrutally killed and we all
watched it.
He was murdered and over over apack of cigarettes and a $20
bill.
Um, I'm sorry for gettingemotional about it.
It's just like I just rememberso bad, like I know it was bad
that he died, but it was alsolike such a beautiful movement
(16:58):
because at the same time I feltthat I could put myself in that
movement.
I was downtown a lot of times,you know, with the protesters
and stuff like that, and I woulddo a lot of like.
I started doing my FacebookLives, like it was called the
and you can see them on YouTubeand you know it was a Latino
talkback on the anti-blacknessin the Latino community and I
(17:22):
started hosting these with likefolks like joe mandalado, where
he's going state representativethat's what he's up to right now
.
He started on doing some toptalk shout out to joe I love joe
exactly same three things.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
A joke with joe if you're, if you cool with him is
he's.
He's a great jokester, he'shilarious.
You are putting together aseries of events that's coming
up soon.
Um, can you share with us whatthese events are, how people can
get involved, how can theydonate, how can they attend?
Tell us about these amazingevents that you've put together
(17:58):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So that's the corner store.
Minu as mujeres is ourquarterly annual events that we
have.
They're specifically marketedfor brown and black audiences.
I do that on purpose, becausethe more we are together, the
more we can fight back on thisgender wage gap, this racial
wage gap.
They pin us against each otherWay too often.
They pin Latinos and blackfolks against each other and I
(18:21):
have not seen that unity.
But the first job I ever had wasPastor Alex G.
There was no other organizationthat embraced me as much as
Nehemiah did and from that youknow it just showed to me and my
grandmother was always sheinstilled that in me when she
was working as a maquinadora andthat means a seamstress.
She would make Levi's right inMexico and she said one of her
supervisors was African Americanfrom the United States and they
(18:44):
started talking and he wouldteach her a couple words in
English.
She told him and then she toldhim her story about maybe she
could come to the US, that shewas curious about, that.
She even knew his name andeverything.
Had it not been for this likegentleman who got thrown into
Mexico to oversee a factory, mygrandmother may have never come
to this United States.
She would have never had thefuerza, las ganas, the
(19:07):
confidence to come and just see,are my fingerprints still at
the border.
Maybe I can come throughbecause I'm over here, like with
twins, she had four kids.
She had these two twins and shehad to feed them.
And my mom talks about how sheate a bag of sugar because she
was so damn hungry.
So had it not been for thattype of unity, I wouldn't be
here.
And so that's what my honor toMidwest Mojeres is, and that's
(19:30):
why it doesn't mean that I'vearrived to like some sort of
elevated state of knowing.
No, I have bad tapes in my headtoo.
I have total bad tapes.
I grew up here.
Of course I'm going to have badthings being said in my head,
but I admit them, I say sorry tothem, I say sorry to myself and
I move on.
And I think that's how weshould all handle our prejudices
(19:51):
is by apologizing and thenapologizing to ourselves.
And that's why we are veryfortunate to have these events
that are sponsored by localorganizations like Summit Credit
Union, willie Street Co-op, theWisconsin Economic Development
and Old National Bank, americanInsurance.
They've all really invested inMidwest Mojeres.
(20:12):
They understand the need forunity, they understand the need
for innovation.
These are innovative momentswhere brown and black folks can
get together and talk freely,get to know each other, because
for too long we've beenseparated in this community on
purpose.
The next events are coming up onSaturday, may 18th, at the
starting block at the SparkBuilding at 821 East Washington.
(20:34):
It starts at 11 o'clock, Ibelieve.
Junk Food Junkie she's a localAngela Morgan.
She's going to be catering us.
I always like to hire a blackor a Latina caterer for us and
so from 11 to 12, people canenjoy free food.
We'll be meeting up on thethird floor.
We need volunteers.
I will say that is my call intoaction.
(20:54):
Please connect with me becausewe still need volunteers.
If anyone knows about the SparkBuilding.
We do need people to help usescort people up and known, so
that's really well needed.
Still, and then from 12 to 1 forthe first time ever, we're
going to have a latina frommilwaukee who speaks only in
spanish, because myspanish-speaking community
(21:14):
really loves us.
But they want to like have somecontent for themselves too.
So we have a coach, adriana,and she's going to talk about
how to reinvent yourself withoutblowing up.
But in Spanish it makes morefun sense.
I know when I translate itdon't make it justice, but in
Spanish it sounds really cool.
And then we're going to havekind of like fashion show, maybe
(21:36):
like teaching people like whatis a good cut, what is a bad cut
, like what to wear for fashion.
So Laura Fitzzgerald whitewoman, ally, love laura.
She's amazing, used to work formadisoncom.
She's coming over with herfashion tips.
We have also another brandstylist, maria styles, is coming
and then we're going to closeoff with a panel discussion
talking about the brown blackchallenges for networking in our
(21:59):
midwestern community.
So that's on sat, may 18th, andthen on Saturday, june 15th, is
our annual event at the my ArtsTheater.
Our histories, our stories havevalue.
We have networking at oneo'clock, the event is at two
We'll have some light horsd'oeuvres.
This is a family-friendly event.
We highlight brown and blackwomen who come and tell their
(22:20):
stories.
This is after a month ofintense storytelling training.
They meet with me weekly sothat they can craft their
stories.
Who are these women?
They are your neighbors, theyare your friends.
Some of these women wereselected through Wisconsin Life,
their podcast has beenhighlighting every Friday a
story from one of our MidwestMoedas women.
Shout out to Wisconsin, towisconsin life yeah, yeah,
(22:42):
they're great, they're doingamazing things and they allowed
me to curate um, their women'shistory month uh selection there
.
So that was just such a treat,such a treat for me to to work
with them and um, highlightthese women and their stories,
some of these women.
The impact is just phenomenal.
They get either more contractsfor work, get more speaking
(23:03):
engagements, they get invited toother podcasts, they become
life coaches.
One of them scaled her businessLike she was on stage, she had
no employees, and now she haslike five employees yeah, she's
a CPA, victoria and that Karennegotiated like, I think like
10% more of her salary.
And, you know, dr SagaciousLivingston has now, you know,
(23:24):
starting her Infamous Motherplatform, just launching that,
and so it's a starting point fora lot of women.
It's that turning point.
It's just that one thing youneed to kind of like and that's
what the power of a theatricalstage will do for your life.
It's nothing like anything,it's something very
transformational.
You know, in Mexican culture wehave things like quinceañeras,
(23:49):
right, it's like that coming toage thing and you do a quince
and you go.
You don't have that as grownwomen.
I kind of feel like this is ourquince, for us mujeres who have
built something, tried to dosomething different, in spite of
the gender wage gap or racialdiscrimination in the workforce,
or being previouslyincarcerated or having domestic
violence in your life, or beinga survivor of sexual assault, or
(24:09):
of being a single parent, or ofyour criminal history.
Multitudes of survival storiesare woven in here being an
immigrant, not knowing how tospeak English, et cetera, et
cetera.
The list goes on.
And that's what these womenneed is just a stage, do that
Kind of have your bendición, getyour blessings, your flores,
and a stage so people can hearyou, hear what that is.
(24:30):
It's a very transformational,special moment and no, it's not
just for women.
Men ask me that all the time.
It's like, obviously, bring,come, come with your kids, come
with your abuelitas.
Is this a free event?
It's very inexpensive to go.
Pretty much, we do getsponsorships that way.
Towards the end, we people livein the darbo neighborhood.
We'll get, we'll get a specialcode for that.
Just hit me up it's literally25 bucks.
(24:52):
Like it's not that expensive.
I think it's very affordable alot of that time.
You know what I'm saying we'reoffsetting that yeah, just the
platform cost the.
we all deserve money.
The I Want money is like twofor 10 right now.
It's like literally five bucks,and I think I have a special
going on two for 25 right now aswell for the Myers Theater, and
(25:13):
we'll be floating some morefree tickets as we get closer to
the date.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Absolutely.
Yeah Well, thank you so muchfor putting on these events to
promote unity between black andbrown people.
We really appreciate that, andthank you for stopping by the
platform.
We really appreciate you andall of the things that you've
done in the community and youcontinue to do.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Absolutely do.
This is awesome.
I'm so glad to get to get partof, you know, the Out of Box
podcast, part of you know theout of box podcast.
I've just seen you grown aswell in these last few years and
I'm like I'm sitting y'allfolks and the brother has like
six awards.
You know, so beautiful, it's sobeautiful and it just shows to
like that you also are a storycatcher and it's it's a
(25:59):
privilege right, it's aprivilege to hold all of these
stories in a container.
So thank you so much for makingme feel welcome here.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's no problem, I'm D-Star Until next time, guys.
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