October 28, 2025 • 25 mins
Doors don’t open themselves—people and policy do. We sit down with survivor and advocate Shanyeill McCloud, founder of Clean Slate, to unpack how Wisconsin’s tight expungement rules shut deserving people out and how the revived Pardon Advisory Board created a powerful path to redemption. Shanielle explains why document prep is only half the story; the other half is people preparation—coaching clients to articulate growth, take accountability, and face an intimidating hearing with clarity and courage.
You’ll hear from Dante Wren, who transformed a 2002 conviction into a mission to serve. He breaks down the fear that stops many from applying, the step-by-step coaching that rebuilt his confidence, and the life on the other side of a signature—working in corrections to mentor young people at their most uncertain moment. His story shows how a clean slate can restore not only employment and rights but also identity, purpose, and the ability to lead at home.
We also dig into the gaps: why expungement in Wisconsin often fails, how five simple pardon criteria quietly make thousands eligible, and why women—especially women of color—remain underrepresented among recipients despite critical shortages in nursing, teaching, and public safety. Shanyeill outlines plans to scale satellite help desks and launch a women-focused program in Dane County, pairing redemption with workforce needs to turn barriers into pipelines.
If you or someone you love has been off supervision for five years, has no open cases, and is not on the sex offender registry, you may qualify. Learn the process, choose a support tier—from DIY guidance to full-service prep—and get ready to present your best case. Subscribe, share this conversation with someone who needs hope, and leave a review to help more people find a real path to a clean slate.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What's up, everybody?
(00:00):
This is your host, D Star, herewith Shanielle McLeod.
And Dante Ren.
How are you guys doing today?
I'm great.
Good.
So for the people that don'tknow you, can you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Sure.
My name is Shanielle McLeod.
I'm the owner and founder of theClean Slate Expungement and
Parton Help Desk.
It's a second-chance socialenterprise for men and women
that have made mistakes in theirpast, paid their debt to
society, and now are seekinglegal pathways out of poverty.
I started Clean Slate in 2012 asan effort to reduce joblessness,
(00:32):
homelessness, uh crime andrecidivism here in the state of
Wisconsin, mainly in Milwaukee,a born and raised in the city of
Milwaukee.
So what started me into this isfor one, I'm a survivor of
domestic violence.
The only way I was able tosurvive was by fighting back.
And um, but fighting back landedme with my first and only
conviction.
So, you know, I started off asone of those people who was a
(00:56):
goody two shoes in arelationship that was just ended
badly.
And uh I fought back, and I feellike I've been fighting back
ever since because, like I said,I it landed me with my first and
only conviction, which uh Ilost, you know, my job at that
time.
I was working for North Forestand Mutual Life Insurance.
Uh, had been working there freshout of high school.
(01:17):
So corporate America was all Iknew, but I I couldn't go back,
you know, to corporate America.
And so, you know, I was foundout about expungement of
criminal records, and um Ibecame obsessed, some would say
possessed, you know, with theconcept because uh I actually
went back to school and tryingto learn the expungement
(01:37):
process, you know, a lot of thelaw was unfamiliar with it, it
was hard to read.
So I went back to MATC, uhbecame a paralegal, and I
started interning with the legalactions of the world and I
learned the process A to Z, youknow, how to do expungement.
So I started questioning like,well, why aren't we, you know,
doing expungement for people wholive right here in the inner
(01:58):
city?
Because all of our clientelecame from the suburbs.
And they was like, well, if youwant to help those people, you
do it yourself.
So boom, I had to start CleanSlate Milwaukee with no prior,
you know, business experience,no prior nonprofit experience.
So I developed uh second chancestaffing as a school project
because I went back to school,Brian and Stradin for business.
(02:21):
And so in business class, youhad to develop a project.
And so my project was uh was atemporary agency for felons.
And I was like, well, if I'mhaving a hard time finding a job
with a misdemeanor, just imaginewhat someone with a felony is
going through.
So I started second-chancestaffing uh as a nonprofit in
2014 and started working withthe Milwaukee Fatherhood
(02:44):
Initiatives and other re-entrycommunity organizations as to A,
get the word out, you know, thatthe possibility to expunge your
record exists.
After learning the process, Itry to help myself.
So, you know, it started offbeing about me, then about my
family.
You know, I started helpingmembers of my family, you know,
get their records expunged, thenstarting.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Were you successful in any?
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
I I helped my mother.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Yes, so I helped my mother.
My mother had something on herrecord that was actually
dismissed, but it stopped herfrom going into um med school.
And I remember my mother tryingto go to you know med school,
medical college, um, when I wasyounger, when I was real little.
But when I was adult, I seennothing actualized.
So I was like, well, whathappened?
So when she told me it was herrecord, which I didn't know, it
(03:32):
was something that happened in1980.
I wasn't even born yet, youknow.
So that just shows how longthings stay on your record and
can impact you fromopportunities later on.
So, like I said, I started withmy family, was successful with
my family, practicing withneighbors and you know, cousins
and stuff like that.
Then I moved on to the jobcenter.
Moved on to the job center,start helping people in the job
(03:55):
centers, you know, get theirrecords, you know, expunged, and
really was kind of hitting brickwalls because of how narrow the
expungement laws are.
Everybody is not qualified.
They may as, you know, be asdeserving of as a second chance
as they may be, they may not bequalified because of how
stringent the uh Wisconsinexpungement laws are.
(04:16):
So I when I even when I doubleback to get my own record
expunged, I learned that I stillwas not qualified because the
laws was not break, was not maderetroactive.
So that's how I began toadvocate.
So we got into policy, got intostart trying to expand the
Wisconsin expungement process tofor one, remove the age limit,
(04:38):
uh, to make it retroactive.
So people from back in the 70s,80s, 90s also have the
opportunity as second chances totake away at the time of
sentencing.
Right now, as it stands, inorder to be eligible to have
your record expunged, it has tobe stipulated at the time of
sentencing.
You can meet all, you can checkout, check off all the other
(04:58):
boxes, but if the judge did notstipulate it at the time of
sentencing, it's not happening.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
And a lot of people don't know to ask for that when
they're, you know, and they'repre-sentencing and you know,
when they go down go and speakto the DA and try to make a deal
uh and they sign that paperwork,nine times out of ten, your
lawyer's not gonna say, hey, youshould think about asking for
this.
So once you're done serving yourtime and paid your debt to
(05:26):
society, that you will be youcould be eligible for this.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Correct, correct.
And a lot of times you don'tknow what you don't know.
So you if you never even heardof expungement, how you know to
ask for it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
And especially if it's your first case, you know,
and it's like you don't, you'renew to the process, you have no
idea what an expungement is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
That's exactly, that's exactly right.
So even when I double back and Iasked the judge, and she was
like, Well, I'm sorry, youdidn't say it at the time of
sentencing.
And she was like, Well, and letme just backtrack and she was
even at the time of sentencing,she was like, I'm gonna make an
example out of you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
Yeah, she, you know, I I had never been in trouble
before then, never been introuble since then.
But um, yeah, so she she wantedto make an example out of me and
and gave me that that case.
And um, so I I went back to herand she was like, Well, you
didn't ask for it, so I can'tgive you the expungement.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Well, even if I did know about it, you know, I would
be intimidated to ask her if shejust said, I'm gonna make an
example out of you, you knowwhat I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
Yeah, it's it's it's extremely intimidating, you
know, especially if you you'reyoung, that's your first time in
the courtroom, and you justsurrounded by things you they
they speak in languages youdon't understand.
You know, some people plead outto anything, you know.
They people take pleas and youknow, and make deals there 10,
20 years probation, yeah, whichis just a trap.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Or the worst part is when they wave their
preliminary, that's one of theworst things you can do is wave
your preliminary because that'syour opportunity to see
everything that you're upagainst.
And if you wave it, that's likeomitting guilt immediately.
SPEAKER_02 (07:03):
And so, yeah, we know these things now in
hindsight, but when we was atthat table at that time, it was
just all, you know, you know,everything was moving real fast,
and you just trying to get outof there.
You know, I had I had kids Ineeded to get back home too.
And that's all my whole goal wasjust to get back home to my
kids.
So fast forward to um you justhelping, you know, just grow the
(07:26):
company, just uh doing moreadvocacy, you know, trying to
expand the opportunity for morepeople.
We had some wins, we had somelosses because we still have not
been able to expand expungementin the state of Wisconsin.
However, in 2019, somethinghistorical happened where our
current governor, Tony Evers,re-established the Parton
(07:47):
Advisory Board.
And when he established thatboard and opened it up for
people who have felonyconvictions, not misdemeanors,
but felony convictions, in orderto be qualified, you have to be
off probation or have servedyour sentence for five years.
So off probation for five years,and you cannot be on a sex
offender registry, cannot haveany open cases in Wisconsin or
(08:09):
any other state.
And a lot of people, because ofthat criteria, that made
thousands of people eligible,you know, where they were not
eligible for expungement, butthey was eligible for a pardon,
and the doors open and we'vebeen off to the races.
The second that door opened up,we were already prepared to take
off running.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
So, how many people would you say you've helped get
pardons and expungements?
SPEAKER_02 (08:32):
Expungements is really hard to narrow down
because, like I said, we've beendoing it since 2012.
So we've been doing um, youknow, clients where we do the
work for them, and then we haveclients where we, you know, do
it yourself options.
So people that go off and do itthemselves, you know,
periodically they'd be like, ohyeah, I got it done.
Sometimes they get it done anddon't double back and tell me.
(08:52):
So the numbers, it was, youknow, before the board opened
up, we were somewhere around2,000, as far as people that
we've been able to serve, andyou know, people who've gotten
their records expunged, youknow, probably 25% of that.
But when it comes to pardons,Dante was like number 40
(09:13):
something.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
But um So he's one of the OGs.
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so, so to date, uh, we are520 applications that we've
done.
And of those 520, 11 have beendenied.
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
Yeah, so we we have a really good success rate, but
I but I don't want to promotethat this is what we can get
this part done for you.
Always want to make thatdisclaimer that our job is to do
doc prep.
I'm a paralegal, I've been aparalegal for 14 years.
We do document preparation, butin in addition to document
preparation, we do peoplepreparation.
(09:51):
We make sure that not only isyour documentation is done
professionally and accurately,but we want to make sure that we
can coach and consult our clientto be ready for that hearing
because you will have to gobefore what they call a partner
advisory board.
And that too can be anintimidating situation.
So we want to make sure that wecoach our clients, we help them
(10:13):
develop their why, we vet them.
So, you know, we're not just abenefit to the client in the
community, but we're a benefitto the partner advisory board
and the governor as well,because we serve as a secondary
vetting system.
So we're gonna vet the clientsbefore the board gets a chance
to vet you.
So by the time you see thegovernor, you've been double
(10:34):
vetted because none of us wantto put our name on an
application that a person mayreoffend.
If we have, if I get any inklingof a person that is still has
not rehabilitated, has still hasstill have a criminal mindset,
it's still, you know, have whatthey call reservations of doing
(10:55):
criminal activity.
It's a no, it's a no-go.
I will not take that client.
Because we've helped so manypeople, we have a lot of
tremendous, you know, successstories, and a lot of people can
speak to.
And I wanted to introduce DanteWren as one of our success
stories of people who have comethrough the program.
He's a father, he's a husband,he's a family man that was
(11:16):
deserving of a second chance.
And I'll let him introducehimself.
SPEAKER_00 (11:19):
Hi, my name is Dante Wren.
As she said, I was onceconvicted of a crime when I was
younger, early 2002.
I knew that wasn't the personthat I was.
It wasn't what I want torepresent it for myself and for
my family.
And after my conviction, I putin tremendous amount of work of
rehabilitating myself andearning my pardon and trying to
(11:42):
be an asset to my community.
And with a strong, strongsupport system and with her
help, I was able to get thataccomplished.
SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
So can you take us kind of through the process and
what you were feeling when youfirst started your journey to
get your pardon?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
I was nervous because, you know, I know how
important it was, and I knowwhat it can do for me and my
family.
So it's it's nerve-wrackingbecause you don't know if you're
gonna get it, but all you can dois swing at it, do your best.
I was to be honest with you, Iwas completely nervous.
I was completely nervous becauseas a man, you want to be an
(12:20):
asset to your family and be ableto provide and be able to teach
and be able to show yourchildren the proper ways of
living life and how to how tolive life.
But, you know, after you make amistake, you feel like hope is
gone.
And with this program, it justreiterated all hope was still
(12:41):
there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
So, did she do all of the things that she said that
she can do as far as you know,the people coaching's part?
Because we know that she didher, we we know that she did her
job with the preparation becauseyou got the partner.
Yes.
But walk us through the peoplepreparation.
How was that experience for you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
It was it was life-changing.
It was a lot of, you know, justmaking sure that I was really,
really qualified for this partand to make sure that I was
really a good candidate,because, you know, these people
are putting their names on theline for you to be rehabilitated
and for you to enter back intosociety with a clean slate at
(13:20):
life with these doors beingreopened to you.
And I want to just she reallywant to make sure you're the
type of person that's ready forthat, because some people are
not ready for that.
So what I understand what shewants and what she's looking
for, she's looking for peoplewho's really ready to make a
life change and really, reallydeserving of getting this
(13:40):
opportunity after a one-timemistake.
You know what I'm saying?
Because everybody probably had aone-time mistake, but you know,
we really want to make sure thatyou're really you're ready to
move forward with your lifeafter making that mistake and
you learned your lesson, andyou're here to help society
progress.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
So I wanted to know if you could speak to the fear
that you had of even startingthat process or you know, in the
in the interim of starting thatprocess, because I know a
barrier for a lot of people isthe fear of rejection.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Yeah, just the fear of nothing's gonna change.
Like you're gonna be stuck doingthe same thing.
You made that mistake mean thatyou're gonna be stuck in this
position for the rest of yourlife.
You'll forever be just acceptingany kind of employment, any kind
of wage, any kind of treatment,because the conviction that you,
(14:35):
the crime that you've beenconvicted with now has you stuck
in a position where you can'tprogress.
You know what I'm saying?
So that when you when you startthinking like, oh, I'm gonna try
to get this removed, but if theydon't do it, this is how things
are gonna be.
And what's the purpose of eventrying if nothing's gonna
change?
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Going down that negative rapid hill.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
But she helped build up your confidence to let you
know that, you know, keep hopealive.
This is gonna change.
You have a second chance.
Your mistake is not gonna hinderyou your whole way long as
you've been walking a certainpath and you've been staying
clean and you've been workingand you've been staying out of
trouble and you've been changingyour environment and the type of
(15:18):
people that you surroundyourself with, you know what I'm
saying?
Long as she, oh, you check allthose boxes, she'll jump in your
fight.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
So she brought you here for a reason.
Yes, sir.
Um, because you're an exemplarysuccess story.
So after receiving your pardon,what did you do with that
pardon?
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
After I received my pardon, I took off running.
After I received my pardon, Ididn't look back.
I actually pursued a career incorrections.
I'm actually in that field now,helping people who was similar
to me as a youth with maybecatching a conviction for the
first time and don't know whatto do and don't know what
they're up against and don'tknow where to go next.
(15:59):
You know what I'm saying?
I feel like I'm someone that cangive them some advice, some
hope, some some motivation thattheir life isn't over yet.
They just hit a roll bump, andif they walk a straight path and
it's straight and do things theright way, they can rehabilitate
themselves and they can gettheir um rights and they um
(16:22):
their amendments back.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
So you started on the other side of the bars.
Yes, I did.
And now you serve those samepeople that you would you that
you were formerly incarceratedwith.
Yes, I do.
That's amazing.
How does that make you feel?
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
It's it's overwhelming sometimes.
Sometimes when I'm at work, youknow, sometimes I get choked up
because I've because Iunderstand what other people in
my profession don't understand.
The the anxiety, the the thenervousness, the the just just
the mind games that goingthrough that process does to you
(16:58):
when you're in that situationthat that you just don't know
what your future may hold.
So I try to give the people whowas in a position I was in, hope
that it's not as bad as itlooked.
Just keep faith, and and it's away that you have to walk moving
forward, and it's a way that youhave to do things moving
(17:19):
forward, but you can get yourlife back.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Wow, man, that's that's awesome.
So, what's next?
SPEAKER_02 (17:25):
What's next is I will really love to get the
stories out.
I've been collecting a lot of uhtestimonials and people, and I
was like, man, I I I want theworld to hear what I get a
chance to hear.
I want the world to see what Iget a chance to see.
I get a chance to see 360transformations.
I get a chance to see peoplethat have come to me that was
that was just almost defeated.
(17:47):
They only had it in them to tryone more time, and they're
willing to bet on me.
So if they're willing to bet onme, I'm willing to bet on them.
You know, I'm a fighter and youwant somebody like me on your
team.
You want somebody like me that'sgonna help you fight.
Definition of success is wherepreparation meets opportunity.
I prepared for this opportunityfor a long time.
(18:07):
Didn't even know what I waspreparing for.
But I'm ready, you know, to takethis to the next step, go
national, statewide first, thengrow nationally and establish
pardon help desks in otherstates.
We've helped people in Texas,we've helped people in Georgia,
you know, we're looking athelping somebody with a pardon
out of Michigan.
But one thing I will say,something historical has
(18:29):
happened in the state ofWisconsin to where we used to be
known for mass incarceration.
Now we're we're tilting thescales on mass liberation.
If we get a governor that comesin and continues the work of
Tony Evers, we can really betilting the scales, you know, on
how people address and umformerly incarcerated people and
(18:49):
don't just count them out.
Don't just count people out.
Yeah, if they made a mistake inthe past, but there's a lot of
hidden talent, and I get achance to see it.
You know, that's a lot of hiddenbrilliance.
There's a lot of young men thatis is not in environments that
that nurtures their brilliance.
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
A lot of women too, girls too.
And that's what I wanted to talkto you about.
I wanted to uh touch on youradvocacy for the women in the
pardon.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
Uh, because I know that's uh near and dear to your
heart, and you gave me somefacts and statistics about you
know the percentage of womenthat actually receive pardons,
and uh you wanted to help changethat.
So can you speak on that?
SPEAKER_02 (19:29):
With the recent announcement of our governor to
not seek reelection, there's noguarantee that that board is
gonna stay open.
And if it does, wonderful.
But one thing I've noticed isthe recipients of these pardons,
even expungements, women arelike less than 20%.
Women of color is less than 10%.
So going forward, I would loveto do more advocacy and more
(19:53):
promotion and advertising andmarketing to women, get more
women through the process.
We were just talking aboutshortages.
We have a nursing shortage,shortage and correctional
officers, police officers.
A pardon is the only way to getto those industries.
It's the only way.
So I would love to.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Yeah, think about how many little girls always
wanted to be uh a nurse, yeah, adoctor.
Yeah.
Um, they wanted to be a fireman,they wanted to be a correctional
officer, police officer withthat record, you know, and they
make one mistake and now that'sexactly right closed to them
forever.
But it's like with a stroke of apen, there's your workforce
right there.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
We want to make sure women are supported.
Women and men contact me fordifferent reasons.
A lot of times men go into, likeI said, trucking, they they want
their Second Amendments.
Well, women come to me forspecific reasons.
They go, women, for the mostpart, are nurturers.
They're going into the caresfield, health care, child care,
elder care.
They want to do group homes.
(20:51):
They want to do, they want to beteachers.
We have a shortage in teachers.
So, how can we make sure thatwomen have what they need to be
more successful as well?
Can't lead the women out.
You know, as a woman, as aformerly incarcerated woman, I
know who was on the front lineswith making sure a lot of these
policies got passed in the firstplace.
Who was it that was going toMadison for the lobby days to
(21:14):
making sure that we expressedthe importance of opening up
that pardon advisory board?
But when that board opened up,it was men that rushed through.
It's men that's getting pardons.
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
So you said that you wanted to create a program
specifically for women in theDane County area.
Can you speak to us a little bitabout that?
Or do you want to save thatuntil you got everything going?
But just to put people onnotice, that will be coming
soon.
SPEAKER_02 (21:40):
The whole goal of this is redemption.
This is all redemption work.
I don't say I don't, I don't dore-entry work, I do redemption
work.
So making sure that um womenknow that, hey, this applies to
you too.
You know, we can help you aswell, you know, get through
this.
But yes, I wanna I'm gonna uhfocus, you know.
(22:01):
2026, we will focus more onwomen and making sure that
women, you know, get have accessto expungement and pardon
opportunities as well.
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
So, how can people get in contact with you?
SPEAKER_02 (22:13):
We have a website, cleanslatemke.com.
Feel free to go on, check usout.
We have an office here inMilwaukee, Wisconsin.
I would love to begin to set upsatellite offices in, you know,
Dane County, Racine County,Kenosha County for people
because we have formerlyincarcerated people all over the
state.
Like I said, we was just knownas the most incarcerated state
(22:35):
there was in all 50 states, ifnot the world.
So there is no shortage ofpeople who have records that are
seeking opportunity.
It benefits us all to make surethat anyone that's trying gets
help.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Okay, so one last time, hit us with the
qualifications.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
So, in order to qualify to have a pardon in the
state of Wisconsin, you have tobe off probation for five years.
You cannot be on the sexoffender registry, you cannot
have any open cases orindependent cases in Wisconsin
or any other states.
SPEAKER_01 (23:10):
And that's it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:11):
That's it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
And that's it.
So I speak to a lot of people,and then they they say, Oh, I I
can't do this, uh, you know, Idon't, I don't think I would
qualify.
Most of you guys do.
Just based off of thosequalifications right there.
Most of you guys qualify.
So if you are looking forsomeone to help you in that
process, there's two tiers tothis.
(23:32):
So there's a do-it-yourselfoption and there's a full
service option.
So the do-it-yourself option iswhere she walks you through the
paperwork, helps you fill itout, and then it gets filed.
And then the full service is umwhere you she does it all for
you, and then you get the thepeople coaching.
Yeah.
So take advantage of thoseproducts and services if you're
(23:56):
interested in that, or if youhave a loved one that's
interested in, or somebody thatmight not be qualified right
now, but maybe next year they'requalified.
Maybe they hit, you know, theirfive years next year.
Maybe you start the paperworknow.
Maybe you call and have theconversation now to try to get
ready for that person.
It's all about preparation.
(24:17):
So, like she just said,preparation meets opportunity
equals success.
Here's your opportunity.
Now let's start the preparationand you'll be successful.
Thank you guys.
I really appreciate you guys forcoming through a wealth of
knowledge.
I'm D Star.
Until next time, guys.
What's up, everybody?
(00:00):
This is your host, D Star, herewith Shanielle McLeod.
And Dante Ren.
How are you guys doing today?
I'm great.
Good.
So for the people that don'tknow you, can you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Sure.
My name is Shanielle McLeod.
I'm the owner and founder of theClean Slate Expungement and
Parton Help Desk.
It's a second-chance socialenterprise for men and women
that have made mistakes in theirpast, paid their debt to
society, and now are seekinglegal pathways out of poverty.
I started Clean Slate in 2012 asan effort to reduce joblessness,
(00:32):
homelessness, uh crime andrecidivism here in the state of
Wisconsin, mainly in Milwaukee,a born and raised in the city of
Milwaukee.
So what started me into this isfor one, I'm a survivor of
domestic violence.
The only way I was able tosurvive was by fighting back.
And um, but fighting back landedme with my first and only
conviction.
So, you know, I started off asone of those people who was a
(00:56):
goody two shoes in arelationship that was just ended
badly.
And uh I fought back, and I feellike I've been fighting back
ever since because, like I said,I it landed me with my first and
only conviction, which uh Ilost, you know, my job at that
time.
I was working for North Forestand Mutual Life Insurance.
Uh, had been working there freshout of high school.
(01:17):
So corporate America was all Iknew, but I I couldn't go back,
you know, to corporate America.
And so, you know, I was foundout about expungement of
criminal records, and um Ibecame obsessed, some would say
possessed, you know, with theconcept because uh I actually
went back to school and tryingto learn the expungement
(01:37):
process, you know, a lot of thelaw was unfamiliar with it, it
was hard to read.
So I went back to MATC, uhbecame a paralegal, and I
started interning with the legalactions of the world and I
learned the process A to Z, youknow, how to do expungement.
So I started questioning like,well, why aren't we, you know,
doing expungement for people wholive right here in the inner
(01:58):
city?
Because all of our clientelecame from the suburbs.
And they was like, well, if youwant to help those people, you
do it yourself.
So boom, I had to start CleanSlate Milwaukee with no prior,
you know, business experience,no prior nonprofit experience.
So I developed uh second chancestaffing as a school project
because I went back to school,Brian and Stradin for business.
(02:21):
And so in business class, youhad to develop a project.
And so my project was uh was atemporary agency for felons.
And I was like, well, if I'mhaving a hard time finding a job
with a misdemeanor, just imaginewhat someone with a felony is
going through.
So I started second-chancestaffing uh as a nonprofit in
2014 and started working withthe Milwaukee Fatherhood
(02:44):
Initiatives and other re-entrycommunity organizations as to A,
get the word out, you know, thatthe possibility to expunge your
record exists.
After learning the process, Itry to help myself.
So, you know, it started offbeing about me, then about my
family.
You know, I started helpingmembers of my family, you know,
get their records expunged, thenstarting.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Were you successful in any?
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
I I helped my mother.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Yes, so I helped my mother.
My mother had something on herrecord that was actually
dismissed, but it stopped herfrom going into um med school.
And I remember my mother tryingto go to you know med school,
medical college, um, when I wasyounger, when I was real little.
But when I was adult, I seennothing actualized.
So I was like, well, whathappened?
So when she told me it was herrecord, which I didn't know, it
(03:32):
was something that happened in1980.
I wasn't even born yet, youknow.
So that just shows how longthings stay on your record and
can impact you fromopportunities later on.
So, like I said, I started withmy family, was successful with
my family, practicing withneighbors and you know, cousins
and stuff like that.
Then I moved on to the jobcenter.
Moved on to the job center,start helping people in the job
(03:55):
centers, you know, get theirrecords, you know, expunged, and
really was kind of hitting brickwalls because of how narrow the
expungement laws are.
Everybody is not qualified.
They may as, you know, be asdeserving of as a second chance
as they may be, they may not bequalified because of how
stringent the uh Wisconsinexpungement laws are.
(04:16):
So I when I even when I doubleback to get my own record
expunged, I learned that I stillwas not qualified because the
laws was not break, was not maderetroactive.
So that's how I began toadvocate.
So we got into policy, got intostart trying to expand the
Wisconsin expungement process tofor one, remove the age limit,
(04:38):
uh, to make it retroactive.
So people from back in the 70s,80s, 90s also have the
opportunity as second chances totake away at the time of
sentencing.
Right now, as it stands, inorder to be eligible to have
your record expunged, it has tobe stipulated at the time of
sentencing.
You can meet all, you can checkout, check off all the other
(04:58):
boxes, but if the judge did notstipulate it at the time of
sentencing, it's not happening.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
And a lot of people don't know to ask for that when
they're, you know, and they'repre-sentencing and you know,
when they go down go and speakto the DA and try to make a deal
uh and they sign that paperwork,nine times out of ten, your
lawyer's not gonna say, hey, youshould think about asking for
this.
So once you're done serving yourtime and paid your debt to
(05:26):
society, that you will be youcould be eligible for this.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
Correct, correct.
And a lot of times you don'tknow what you don't know.
So you if you never even heardof expungement, how you know to
ask for it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
And especially if it's your first case, you know,
and it's like you don't, you'renew to the process, you have no
idea what an expungement is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
That's exactly, that's exactly right.
So even when I double back and Iasked the judge, and she was
like, Well, I'm sorry, youdidn't say it at the time of
sentencing.
And she was like, Well, and letme just backtrack and she was
even at the time of sentencing,she was like, I'm gonna make an
example out of you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
Yeah, she, you know, I I had never been in trouble
before then, never been introuble since then.
But um, yeah, so she she wantedto make an example out of me and
and gave me that that case.
And um, so I I went back to herand she was like, Well, you
didn't ask for it, so I can'tgive you the expungement.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Well, even if I did know about it, you know, I would
be intimidated to ask her if shejust said, I'm gonna make an
example out of you, you knowwhat I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
Yeah, it's it's it's extremely intimidating, you
know, especially if you you'reyoung, that's your first time in
the courtroom, and you justsurrounded by things you they
they speak in languages youdon't understand.
You know, some people plead outto anything, you know.
They people take pleas and youknow, and make deals there 10,
20 years probation, yeah, whichis just a trap.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Or the worst part is when they wave their
preliminary, that's one of theworst things you can do is wave
your preliminary because that'syour opportunity to see
everything that you're upagainst.
And if you wave it, that's likeomitting guilt immediately.
SPEAKER_02 (07:03):
And so, yeah, we know these things now in
hindsight, but when we was atthat table at that time, it was
just all, you know, you know,everything was moving real fast,
and you just trying to get outof there.
You know, I had I had kids Ineeded to get back home too.
And that's all my whole goal wasjust to get back home to my
kids.
So fast forward to um you justhelping, you know, just grow the
(07:26):
company, just uh doing moreadvocacy, you know, trying to
expand the opportunity for morepeople.
We had some wins, we had somelosses because we still have not
been able to expand expungementin the state of Wisconsin.
However, in 2019, somethinghistorical happened where our
current governor, Tony Evers,re-established the Parton
(07:47):
Advisory Board.
And when he established thatboard and opened it up for
people who have felonyconvictions, not misdemeanors,
but felony convictions, in orderto be qualified, you have to be
off probation or have servedyour sentence for five years.
So off probation for five years,and you cannot be on a sex
offender registry, cannot haveany open cases in Wisconsin or
(08:09):
any other state.
And a lot of people, because ofthat criteria, that made
thousands of people eligible,you know, where they were not
eligible for expungement, butthey was eligible for a pardon,
and the doors open and we'vebeen off to the races.
The second that door opened up,we were already prepared to take
off running.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
So, how many people would you say you've helped get
pardons and expungements?
SPEAKER_02 (08:32):
Expungements is really hard to narrow down
because, like I said, we've beendoing it since 2012.
So we've been doing um, youknow, clients where we do the
work for them, and then we haveclients where we, you know, do
it yourself options.
So people that go off and do itthemselves, you know,
periodically they'd be like, ohyeah, I got it done.
Sometimes they get it done anddon't double back and tell me.
(08:52):
So the numbers, it was, youknow, before the board opened
up, we were somewhere around2,000, as far as people that
we've been able to serve, andyou know, people who've gotten
their records expunged, youknow, probably 25% of that.
But when it comes to pardons,Dante was like number 40
(09:13):
something.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
But um So he's one of the OGs.
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so, so to date, uh, we are520 applications that we've
done.
And of those 520, 11 have beendenied.
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
Yeah, so we we have a really good success rate, but
I but I don't want to promotethat this is what we can get
this part done for you.
Always want to make thatdisclaimer that our job is to do
doc prep.
I'm a paralegal, I've been aparalegal for 14 years.
We do document preparation, butin in addition to document
preparation, we do peoplepreparation.
(09:51):
We make sure that not only isyour documentation is done
professionally and accurately,but we want to make sure that we
can coach and consult our clientto be ready for that hearing
because you will have to gobefore what they call a partner
advisory board.
And that too can be anintimidating situation.
So we want to make sure that wecoach our clients, we help them
(10:13):
develop their why, we vet them.
So, you know, we're not just abenefit to the client in the
community, but we're a benefitto the partner advisory board
and the governor as well,because we serve as a secondary
vetting system.
So we're gonna vet the clientsbefore the board gets a chance
to vet you.
So by the time you see thegovernor, you've been double
(10:34):
vetted because none of us wantto put our name on an
application that a person mayreoffend.
If we have, if I get any inklingof a person that is still has
not rehabilitated, has still hasstill have a criminal mindset,
it's still, you know, have whatthey call reservations of doing
(10:55):
criminal activity.
It's a no, it's a no-go.
I will not take that client.
Because we've helped so manypeople, we have a lot of
tremendous, you know, successstories, and a lot of people can
speak to.
And I wanted to introduce DanteWren as one of our success
stories of people who have comethrough the program.
He's a father, he's a husband,he's a family man that was
(11:16):
deserving of a second chance.
And I'll let him introducehimself.
SPEAKER_00 (11:19):
Hi, my name is Dante Wren.
As she said, I was onceconvicted of a crime when I was
younger, early 2002.
I knew that wasn't the personthat I was.
It wasn't what I want torepresent it for myself and for
my family.
And after my conviction, I putin tremendous amount of work of
rehabilitating myself andearning my pardon and trying to
(11:42):
be an asset to my community.
And with a strong, strongsupport system and with her
help, I was able to get thataccomplished.
SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
So can you take us kind of through the process and
what you were feeling when youfirst started your journey to
get your pardon?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
I was nervous because, you know, I know how
important it was, and I knowwhat it can do for me and my
family.
So it's it's nerve-wrackingbecause you don't know if you're
gonna get it, but all you can dois swing at it, do your best.
I was to be honest with you, Iwas completely nervous.
I was completely nervous becauseas a man, you want to be an
(12:20):
asset to your family and be ableto provide and be able to teach
and be able to show yourchildren the proper ways of
living life and how to how tolive life.
But, you know, after you make amistake, you feel like hope is
gone.
And with this program, it justreiterated all hope was still
(12:41):
there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
So, did she do all of the things that she said that
she can do as far as you know,the people coaching's part?
Because we know that she didher, we we know that she did her
job with the preparation becauseyou got the partner.
Yes.
But walk us through the peoplepreparation.
How was that experience for you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
It was it was life-changing.
It was a lot of, you know, justmaking sure that I was really,
really qualified for this partand to make sure that I was
really a good candidate,because, you know, these people
are putting their names on theline for you to be rehabilitated
and for you to enter back intosociety with a clean slate at
(13:20):
life with these doors beingreopened to you.
And I want to just she reallywant to make sure you're the
type of person that's ready forthat, because some people are
not ready for that.
So what I understand what shewants and what she's looking
for, she's looking for peoplewho's really ready to make a
life change and really, reallydeserving of getting this
(13:40):
opportunity after a one-timemistake.
You know what I'm saying?
Because everybody probably had aone-time mistake, but you know,
we really want to make sure thatyou're really you're ready to
move forward with your lifeafter making that mistake and
you learned your lesson, andyou're here to help society
progress.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
So I wanted to know if you could speak to the fear
that you had of even startingthat process or you know, in the
in the interim of starting thatprocess, because I know a
barrier for a lot of people isthe fear of rejection.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Yeah, just the fear of nothing's gonna change.
Like you're gonna be stuck doingthe same thing.
You made that mistake mean thatyou're gonna be stuck in this
position for the rest of yourlife.
You'll forever be just acceptingany kind of employment, any kind
of wage, any kind of treatment,because the conviction that you,
(14:35):
the crime that you've beenconvicted with now has you stuck
in a position where you can'tprogress.
You know what I'm saying?
So that when you when you startthinking like, oh, I'm gonna try
to get this removed, but if theydon't do it, this is how things
are gonna be.
And what's the purpose of eventrying if nothing's gonna
change?
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Going down that negative rapid hill.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
But she helped build up your confidence to let you
know that, you know, keep hopealive.
This is gonna change.
You have a second chance.
Your mistake is not gonna hinderyou your whole way long as
you've been walking a certainpath and you've been staying
clean and you've been workingand you've been staying out of
trouble and you've been changingyour environment and the type of
(15:18):
people that you surroundyourself with, you know what I'm
saying?
Long as she, oh, you check allthose boxes, she'll jump in your
fight.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
So she brought you here for a reason.
Yes, sir.
Um, because you're an exemplarysuccess story.
So after receiving your pardon,what did you do with that
pardon?
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
After I received my pardon, I took off running.
After I received my pardon, Ididn't look back.
I actually pursued a career incorrections.
I'm actually in that field now,helping people who was similar
to me as a youth with maybecatching a conviction for the
first time and don't know whatto do and don't know what
they're up against and don'tknow where to go next.
(15:59):
You know what I'm saying?
I feel like I'm someone that cangive them some advice, some
hope, some some motivation thattheir life isn't over yet.
They just hit a roll bump, andif they walk a straight path and
it's straight and do things theright way, they can rehabilitate
themselves and they can gettheir um rights and they um
(16:22):
their amendments back.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
So you started on the other side of the bars.
Yes, I did.
And now you serve those samepeople that you would you that
you were formerly incarceratedwith.
Yes, I do.
That's amazing.
How does that make you feel?
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
It's it's overwhelming sometimes.
Sometimes when I'm at work, youknow, sometimes I get choked up
because I've because Iunderstand what other people in
my profession don't understand.
The the anxiety, the the thenervousness, the the just just
the mind games that goingthrough that process does to you
(16:58):
when you're in that situationthat that you just don't know
what your future may hold.
So I try to give the people whowas in a position I was in, hope
that it's not as bad as itlooked.
Just keep faith, and and it's away that you have to walk moving
forward, and it's a way that youhave to do things moving
(17:19):
forward, but you can get yourlife back.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Wow, man, that's that's awesome.
So, what's next?
SPEAKER_02 (17:25):
What's next is I will really love to get the
stories out.
I've been collecting a lot of uhtestimonials and people, and I
was like, man, I I I want theworld to hear what I get a
chance to hear.
I want the world to see what Iget a chance to see.
I get a chance to see 360transformations.
I get a chance to see peoplethat have come to me that was
that was just almost defeated.
(17:47):
They only had it in them to tryone more time, and they're
willing to bet on me.
So if they're willing to bet onme, I'm willing to bet on them.
You know, I'm a fighter and youwant somebody like me on your
team.
You want somebody like me that'sgonna help you fight.
Definition of success is wherepreparation meets opportunity.
I prepared for this opportunityfor a long time.
(18:07):
Didn't even know what I waspreparing for.
But I'm ready, you know, to takethis to the next step, go
national, statewide first, thengrow nationally and establish
pardon help desks in otherstates.
We've helped people in Texas,we've helped people in Georgia,
you know, we're looking athelping somebody with a pardon
out of Michigan.
But one thing I will say,something historical has
(18:29):
happened in the state ofWisconsin to where we used to be
known for mass incarceration.
Now we're we're tilting thescales on mass liberation.
If we get a governor that comesin and continues the work of
Tony Evers, we can really betilting the scales, you know, on
how people address and umformerly incarcerated people and
(18:49):
don't just count them out.
Don't just count people out.
Yeah, if they made a mistake inthe past, but there's a lot of
hidden talent, and I get achance to see it.
You know, that's a lot of hiddenbrilliance.
There's a lot of young men thatis is not in environments that
that nurtures their brilliance.
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
A lot of women too, girls too.
And that's what I wanted to talkto you about.
I wanted to uh touch on youradvocacy for the women in the
pardon.
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
Uh, because I know that's uh near and dear to your
heart, and you gave me somefacts and statistics about you
know the percentage of womenthat actually receive pardons,
and uh you wanted to help changethat.
So can you speak on that?
SPEAKER_02 (19:29):
With the recent announcement of our governor to
not seek reelection, there's noguarantee that that board is
gonna stay open.
And if it does, wonderful.
But one thing I've noticed isthe recipients of these pardons,
even expungements, women arelike less than 20%.
Women of color is less than 10%.
So going forward, I would loveto do more advocacy and more
(19:53):
promotion and advertising andmarketing to women, get more
women through the process.
We were just talking aboutshortages.
We have a nursing shortage,shortage and correctional
officers, police officers.
A pardon is the only way to getto those industries.
It's the only way.
So I would love to.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Yeah, think about how many little girls always
wanted to be uh a nurse, yeah, adoctor.
Yeah.
Um, they wanted to be a fireman,they wanted to be a correctional
officer, police officer withthat record, you know, and they
make one mistake and now that'sexactly right closed to them
forever.
But it's like with a stroke of apen, there's your workforce
right there.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
We want to make sure women are supported.
Women and men contact me fordifferent reasons.
A lot of times men go into, likeI said, trucking, they they want
their Second Amendments.
Well, women come to me forspecific reasons.
They go, women, for the mostpart, are nurturers.
They're going into the caresfield, health care, child care,
elder care.
They want to do group homes.
(20:51):
They want to do, they want to beteachers.
We have a shortage in teachers.
So, how can we make sure thatwomen have what they need to be
more successful as well?
Can't lead the women out.
You know, as a woman, as aformerly incarcerated woman, I
know who was on the front lineswith making sure a lot of these
policies got passed in the firstplace.
Who was it that was going toMadison for the lobby days to
(21:14):
making sure that we expressedthe importance of opening up
that pardon advisory board?
But when that board opened up,it was men that rushed through.
It's men that's getting pardons.
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
So you said that you wanted to create a program
specifically for women in theDane County area.
Can you speak to us a little bitabout that?
Or do you want to save thatuntil you got everything going?
But just to put people onnotice, that will be coming
soon.
SPEAKER_02 (21:40):
The whole goal of this is redemption.
This is all redemption work.
I don't say I don't, I don't dore-entry work, I do redemption
work.
So making sure that um womenknow that, hey, this applies to
you too.
You know, we can help you aswell, you know, get through
this.
But yes, I wanna I'm gonna uhfocus, you know.
(22:01):
2026, we will focus more onwomen and making sure that
women, you know, get have accessto expungement and pardon
opportunities as well.
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
So, how can people get in contact with you?
SPEAKER_02 (22:13):
We have a website, cleanslatemke.com.
Feel free to go on, check usout.
We have an office here inMilwaukee, Wisconsin.
I would love to begin to set upsatellite offices in, you know,
Dane County, Racine County,Kenosha County for people
because we have formerlyincarcerated people all over the
state.
Like I said, we was just knownas the most incarcerated state
(22:35):
there was in all 50 states, ifnot the world.
So there is no shortage ofpeople who have records that are
seeking opportunity.
It benefits us all to make surethat anyone that's trying gets
help.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Okay, so one last time, hit us with the
qualifications.
SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
So, in order to qualify to have a pardon in the
state of Wisconsin, you have tobe off probation for five years.
You cannot be on the sexoffender registry, you cannot
have any open cases orindependent cases in Wisconsin
or any other states.
SPEAKER_01 (23:10):
And that's it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:11):
That's it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
And that's it.
So I speak to a lot of people,and then they they say, Oh, I I
can't do this, uh, you know, Idon't, I don't think I would
qualify.
Most of you guys do.
Just based off of thosequalifications right there.
Most of you guys qualify.
So if you are looking forsomeone to help you in that
process, there's two tiers tothis.
(23:32):
So there's a do-it-yourselfoption and there's a full
service option.
So the do-it-yourself option iswhere she walks you through the
paperwork, helps you fill itout, and then it gets filed.
And then the full service is umwhere you she does it all for
you, and then you get the thepeople coaching.
Yeah.
So take advantage of thoseproducts and services if you're
(23:56):
interested in that, or if youhave a loved one that's
interested in, or somebody thatmight not be qualified right
now, but maybe next year they'requalified.
Maybe they hit, you know, theirfive years next year.
Maybe you start the paperworknow.
Maybe you call and have theconversation now to try to get
ready for that person.
It's all about preparation.
(24:17):
So, like she just said,preparation meets opportunity
equals success.
Here's your opportunity.
Now let's start the preparationand you'll be successful.
Thank you guys.
I really appreciate you guys forcoming through a wealth of
knowledge.
I'm D Star.
Until next time, guys.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!