May 30, 2024 • 27 mins
Navigating the challenges of fatherhood, especially within the African-American community, is a journey paved with obstacles and victories. On today's episode, we shed light on the Urban League of Greater Madison Fatherhood Group's commitment to supporting black fathers in overcoming systemic hurdles. I open up about my struggles with mental health and legal systems, adding a deeply personal perspective to the conversation. We also honor the transformative work of Sheriff Barrett in improving mental health services in correctional facilities, further exploring how policy and funding play a crucial role in father reentry programs.
The walls of a jail cell often contain untold stories, and our discussion doesn't shy away from the realities of incarceration. We peel back the layers to reveal the mental anguish suffered by many who are legally innocent, the societal pressures leading to high conviction rates, and the systemic undercurrents that hark back to darker chapters in our history. But it's not all grim; there's a glimmer of hope as we discuss strides toward reform, recognizing that change is necessary and possible.
Family is the cornerstone of society, and we devote a heartfelt segment to the significance of fatherhood and debunking myths about African-American paternal engagement. It's not just about being present; it's about understanding and navigating the complex web of family court systems and child support. We share resources, educate on parental rights, and stress the importance of co-parenting for children's mental and emotional development. This episode goes beyond talk; it's a resource for anyone looking to make sense of the family court maze and to reinforce the value of fatherhood.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do people get involved in this fatherhood
group?
Who do they call?
Do they got an email Like howdo they get involved?
So generally, and then not tocut you off, but what is the
demographic that you're lookingfor?
You know black, white, whatkind of people, what kind of
circumstances.
Take me through it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Essentially what happens is we have a partnership
with the county for Children'sFirst, which they would get if
you're paying child support ornot paying child support.
You go to court.
They say, hey, you're incontempt, but we're going to put
you, we're going to hold thatcontempt order off If you take
this program, if you take thisprogram, and so you guys are the
program.
The program is Children's First, and Children's First actually
(00:40):
refers clients to me, ok, to theUrban League of Greater Madison
Fatherhood Group, and then sothey'll get that.
But then there's people thatcall the Urban League saying,
hey, I have this going on and acourt says this or I don't know,
but I heard that this happened.
Eugene does this group and Iwant to get into it.
(01:01):
So word of mouth, referrals andjust walk-ins is generally how
I get them.
Mouth referrals and justwalk-ins it's generally how I
get them.
And typically the audience thatare there black fathers, those
who have been in the system.
Majority of them have been inthe system.
I've had fathers who haveworked and had a six-figure job
salary and everything is goinggood, but all of a sudden they
(01:24):
get divorced, wife takes themoney and now they're on food
stamps and now they're homeless.
So it is a wide, wide range ofindividuals, but the common
people are those who um have,who are subject to poverty, is
what I would say.
They're subject to poverty andum don't have a job or, you know
, have some AOD, so they call itA-O-D-A requirements and I try
(01:49):
to, just, in that space, buildthem up, and you're one of the
best people to do that, becauseyou have a lot of lived
experience yourself.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
With mental health issues run-ins with the law.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Right, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So I was just reading some of the information that
you sent me earlier and I seenthat you got shot at the radio
station.
You are on suicide watch at theDane County Jail and I know
that they're working towardsbettering conditions there and I
don't want to slam them becauseyou know they can only do so
much.
But I was asked this question.
(02:23):
We know what the DLC is doingwrong.
What?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
do you feel like the DLC is doing right?
A couple of months ago theycame out National National
Criminal Justice Center ofOshkosh Fox Valley area, came
out with assessment, withreentry to fatherhood, and they
understand that if fathers don'tget that support, there's just
there's going to be issues forthem to be able to help their
children out right.
So they know that there's aneed to have a re-entry program
(02:49):
for fathers non-custodialparents as well to be able to do
that.
So I would say that is onething that I've seen that the
DLC has done, but I also knowthat it's a hard challenge to be
able to so it's a lot ofbureaucracy.
Right, exactly, it's a lot ofred tape.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's a lot of things that they have to fight through
because it's not like everybodyin the DOC wants it to be a
certain way, you know.
But it all really comes down tofunding who's in office at the
time and you what's going on,you know, as far as budgeting
and things like that.
So, yeah, I just want to getyour take on that from somebody
(03:30):
who's actually had lived in,lived experience, going through
the system and seeing thesethings firsthand.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know the conditions of the dane county
jail, um, the old jail, you knowknow, yeah, and shout out to
you know, sheriff Barrett,because you know he came into as
a sheriff, you know dealingwith a lot of stuff, and I've
sat there and spoke with him andyou know he was battling a lot
(03:57):
to try to get the new jail up.
So I want to just really raiseit up because he, as a black man
, black father, black sheriff,in a town, a city that we live
in, he's overcame some barriers.
So I just wanted to shout thatout and he has been in a fight
for years to try to get this newjail and I'm glad that is
(04:19):
happening now and I've seen theblueprints of it and I've seen
the blueprints of it and I'vesaid this If the quality of the
staff, if the staff can be justas great as what this building,
looks like as a facility, thenwe're on point and he took that
(04:42):
and he understood, understoodthat and he raised that issue up
and he ended up bringing a newservice providers in for mental
health and they look like us,wow.
So I really think that we dohave to also understand that
people who are in service,wherever they're in the police
department or anything like thatthere are people there that are
(05:05):
actually trying to help.
So I think that's important tohighlight that, instead of all
this negative crap that we'vebeen seeing, that we hear in
mainstream media and all thisLike in our city, there are
people there in the spaces thatwe put in spaces to be able to
change the narrative and thetrajectory that we need to go to
be able to change the narrativeand the trajectory that we need
(05:27):
to go?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, and I don't want to.
You know, people look at a citylike ours and they say, oh,
it's very progressive and it'svery, you know, left wing and
things of that nature and itlooks like we're being very
lenient on crime.
But what people got to reallyunderstand is we're talking
about the jail.
We're not talking about theprison right now.
We're talking about the jailand 80 percent of the people
(06:09):
that's in jail right now.
We at least have to treat themlike they're innocent.
You know what I mean Like theyare human beings.
You know what I mean, and theyneed access to sunlight and
exercise and you know food.
You know what I mean.
And then don't charge them, youknow, hundreds of dollars a
(06:31):
week to get on the phone andthings like that.
So it's like these are innocentpeople by every stretch.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
According, to the constitutional law.
They're still innocent.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
They're still innocent until proven guilty.
So if they haven't beenconvicted of a crime, these are
innocent people, so we can'ttreat them like they're still
innocent.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
they're still innocent until proven guilty, so
they, if they haven't beenconvicted of a crime, um, these
are innocent people, so we can'ttreat them like they're
criminals so check this metaphorout we live in poverty, right,
and we make decisions on basedon our, our situation in
property, right, right,sometimes we may have to make a
decision so that we can put foodon the table and then, all of a
sudden, we go to jail becausewe had to get some food, right?
(07:06):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Sometimes people make these decisions based off of
three things fear, scarcity andlack.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Correct.
And so just think about thatscenario and you put it in a
place like the Dane County Jailand what it looks like right now
.
And innocent people are inthere, but yet their mental
we're going to go back to mentalhealth their environment, the
people that are around and thethings that they have to eat
(07:35):
does not help the fact thatthey're fighting for their life
and they're innocent, but yet wehave these cases that get
prolonged and all this this nowbecomes a psychological thing.
And so what ends up happening.
More people get convicted, andthat's why Wisconsin is a 97%
conviction rate.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Because they just want to get out of there.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
They just want to get out of there.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
All right, whatever, I'll take the probation.
Or, okay, a year.
All right, just give me theyear.
I'm sick of it because I don'tget this time back.
I I'm sick of because I don'tget this time back.
I get it, quote unquote,credited, but I don't get the
time back.
You know what I'm saying.
So I go through this wholeprocess, I get found not guilty,
they let me out, they, you know, expunged my record, all of
(08:17):
this.
But that two, three years, thatI sat in there fighting this
case.
I'd never get that back.
Now I have to completelyrebuild my whole life.
It only takes two weeks.
I'm going to tell you thatright now.
You get locked up for two weeksyou're going to have to rebuild
everything.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Everything's gone.
I actually wrote something thatI was actually incarcerated at
the time on a probation hold andI wrote something and it talked
about Willie Lynch and JimCrowism and how that is actually
prevalent till this day and weeven use it, without even
knowing that we use it right,because it's been projected,
it's been instilled in our it's,in the constitution exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
you know they abolish slavery except when one commits
a crime yeah, until you, untilyou become a felon, like if
you're locked up then then youknow slavery.
You can be an indenture servant.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Exactly, exactly, and so that's why I'm happy that
you know Sheriff Barrettactually kept fighting and kept
going and some years down theroad, but like now, we got, we
got the ball rolling.
So that's going to be good forfor our city, for our people,
(09:26):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So, looking forward, what changes or initiatives
would you like to see withincommunities to better support
the mental health and well-beingof African-American children
and families?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You know I'm going to go back to talking about
fatherhood parenting role, right, I think we need.
When we talk about mentalhealth and children, we split
the families up.
Mom and dad might not be havinga good situation when the
relationship they break apart.
Now we know that this happens.
(10:01):
Where mom and dad were arguing,now children are involved.
I really feel like we need tobe progressive on talking about
what parental equity looks like,because then both parents can
see that we got to fight for ourchildren in a great, in a good
way, fighting fair, right,understanding what that looks
(10:22):
like.
So more advocacy around.
You know, parental equity andparental rights, especially.
You know and build up fathersRight, because we have this.
We have this stigma aboutthere's fathers that want to be
deadbeats, but that's not true.
You know the numbers don'tsupport that.
The numbers doesn't supportthat.
In fact, I've gone in differentgroups and seen how there's a
(10:44):
lot of fathers that are angrybut they don't know how to
actually use that in the rightplatforms.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Blackdemographiccom, cdccom, says that black men are
the most active fathers of allraces.
That is a fact.
So when people say deadbeatdads, black men are not in the
household, they're not goodfathers.
(11:12):
That's why I say the numbersjust don't support that.
The statistics, the data, allof that does not support that
and it's like we continue to letpeople push that narrative and
I just think it does more harmthan good, especially when it
comes from our own people.
Exactly Saying oh, you know he'sa deadbeat this and that, but
(11:33):
sometimes it's not because theywant to be, not be like in the
kid's life, it's circumstantialyou know, yes, yes it's like man
I just got out, or man I don'teven have enough money right now
to take care of my basic needs.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So or I can't give you some yeah, probation or
parole.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's like I can't you can't squeeze blood out of a
turnip or child support rightit's like so all I have right
now is time, like I can give mytime.
I can't really give thefinancial piece right now, but
and that's important time.
Time is what's important, andthen you so, but it's like okay
well, since you can't supportthe, the financial piece, we're
(12:13):
gonna take the time away, we'regonna lock you up because you
can't support the financialpiece, which is crazy cycle, you
know what I'm saying, it's likeyou're saying, okay, you want
me to be in the kid's life andsupport the child, but it's more
than just financial supportingthe kid, it's everything.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
See, and that's the thing that goes back to mental
health, and they always talkabout what's in the best
interest of the child.
Well, in the best interest ofthe child is making sure that
their mental health is right,because that's how they operate.
We all operate on our livedexperience, our traumas, what we
learned, and so how does thathave anything to do with what's
(12:55):
beneficial for the children?
Now, my own personal storyabout, you know, dealing with
child support and divorce, andyou know the court system,
family court.
I'll just put it plain andsimple.
Now, none of my children'sparents do not actually I'm not
on child support for any of thembecause we figured and realized
(13:17):
that it is important that ourchildren have both of us and
they don't have to be um, havethat recourse or that um, that
um being able to have to dealwith that situation.
Because, whether they don't see,whether they see it or not,
they feel the fact that we arenot actually vibing right, we
are not on the same page,because the energy that they
(13:39):
feel between the transferencefrom okay, you got the kids this
week and I got the kids thatweek in these conversations, and
because, also, what ends uphappening is it starts to become
a reactional thing for thechildren.
They're getting in trouble inschool, they're saying things
like this or doing things likethat.
It's just out of character.
Well, think of what they'regoing through in their life, not
(14:01):
particularly what they aredoing, but what is going on in
their life around them, and thatis important.
So we have a better chancebeing successful for our
children when we stop havingsystems control us and tell us
how we are supposed to have ourchildren overnight or have what?
(14:23):
custody stuff like that.
I get it.
There are people that need that, but that's for people that
need it.
You can't generalize that,because once you start
generalizing that, then there'sa systemic issue, a systemic
inequity, where, while you're inhere, this system is for these
who don't want to take care oftheir children, who don't have a
(14:43):
job.
But you're talking aboutsomeone who sat in prison for
maybe 10, 20 years and they haveall this child support and now
you're telling them that they'regoing to be potentially going
back to jail because they oweall this money that you kept
accumulating.
It doesn't make sense.
We're creating a cycle ofpoverty.
(15:04):
That's what we're doing insystems that we're supposed to
be trusted in.
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It does make sense.
But one thing that I doappreciate on what the family
court services is doing now isthat before you go to mediation,
they actually make you takethis class and it actually gives
you a lot of information aboutwhat the mediation is actually
for, what are some of the legalramifications of this whole
(15:37):
process, and they just give youa lot more information about
what the roles andresponsibilities are for you as
a parent, and so it kind ofbreaks down some of those
misconceptions of what the rolesand responsibilities are,
because a lot of times we comeinto these situations and we
(15:58):
don't know, because we're notlawyers, right?
So you just going off of whatyou heard or what you thought,
or you know experiences fromother people, and so you're like
, oh man, I'm not going to beable to see my kids, or I'm not
going to be able to do this andthat and that and this, and it's
like, no, you guys are bothparents you guys are both
(16:21):
entitled to this, as long as youknow they're not in any danger
it's split down the middle andall you have to do is ask for it
right, and it's like.
Ignorance of the law is nodefense.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
No, when you're going through these situations, the
best way to protect yourself iswith information and knowledge
and and I've been through thatprocess and I'll tell you more
too, because we do have a clinicthat we do it's called the
Family Service Clinic that wehave child support agency, and
then the Family Law Clinic comein Also.
(16:50):
We have Lift Wisconsin thatcomes in, and we have this
monthly get-together at theUrban League and we have people
who have signed up to talk tochild support and try to work
with them, and all you got to dois communicate All you got to
do is communicate.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So let me ask you this, because I think this is
very, very, very important whatare some of the biggest things
that you've learned?
What are some of the biggestmisconceptions that fathers come
in or mothers come in thinkingthat, oh, I can't do this or I'm
going to have to do this, orthey're going to take half of my
check?
Or what are some of the biggestmisconceptions that you think
(17:25):
that people can help people?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I'm glad that you asked that, because I can think
of two, and it might be a thirdone after I say the two.
One whenever you go in courtfor the first time, you're not
seeing a judge, you're seeing acommissioner.
If you do not like what thatcommissioner has said, you have
to put in a de novo which isfree to file, but you only have
a certain amount of days.
It's 20 days, but I'm going tosay 10 days.
(17:50):
So then you don't wait thatlast day to file that de novo,
and then you'll go right up tothe judge, right, and so that's
one thing.
And don't miss your court date,don't miss those.
Don't don't miss those courtdates.
And don't miss the mediationdates.
Do not miss the mediation dates.
And on top of that, they willtell you while they're
(18:13):
explaining to you thisinformational session, when
you're going through thismediation.
Hey, before you go, before yougo into the mediation, they say
this is the process and thething that you want to hear is
the words.
Words have meaning.
They say collateral information.
They're going to go and meetanybody and everybody that you
(18:36):
speak about or has been aroundyou, and they're going to get
information and it's calledcollateral information, and that
means that they're going to seewho is going to be best fit to
handle or decision for theirchild, your child.
That's one Two.
What was the second one?
(18:58):
That was a major one, though,that's major that's major Making
sure that you go to court.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
There's a commissioner and you will have
to pay a fee for the class, butif you fall in a certain tax
bracket you might be eligiblefor a waiver.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And then there's a $50 a month when you're dealing
with guard them and light them.
Depending on your financialsituation.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But I mean, I just think it's so important because
a lot of people have a lot ofmisconceptions about what that
process looks like.
And I did a whole show onfamily court and child support,
from both aspects.
I had a group of men and I hada group of women and
surprisingly, they were sayingthe same exact thing we don't
(19:42):
want child support.
We don't want child support, wedon't, we would rather have the
father or we would rather havethe relationship with the father
or with the mother.
Because I would be able to domore than you put me on child
support.
Because we're life, right.
I mean, we're not like, we'rehuman beings, right, we're
adults and the economyfluctuates up and down and you
(20:05):
just regular life man.
Some days I got it, some days Idon't.
Right.
You know, some months somethingmight pop up.
You know what I'm saying.
My water heater might go outand I might need to fix that.
You know, things happen, lifewill life.
You sometimes right, right, soI might not have three, four
hundred dollars to give you thismonth.
So right, right, but I mighthave four, five hundred dollars
(20:28):
to give you next month.
Right, but I might have $400 or$500 to give you next month.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So I'm glad that you brought that, because it brought
back the second thing I wasgoing to say.
You don't need to put so whenthey say, hey, you need to pay
this much a month at this timeevery week, sometimes you might
not have it.
Like you said, as long asyou're paying something, it can
be $2, it can be $5.
As long as you're payingsomething, that's all that
(20:52):
matters, because they can't saythat you have not been paying.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And that's what I've seen a lot of people have done.
Like I went into the job centerthe other day, on Wednesday,
and I go once a month to talk toChildren's First participants
and I said, look, we got to beaccountable.
If you don't have a job I knowyou can get $5 because some of
you smoke cigarettes Right, justtake that $5 and send it there.
If you don't got a job, thenthey'll get off your back.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
You won't go to jail because it has to be like 100
and something days since thelast time you made a payment,
right?
So if you make a $2 payment,you can never get locked up.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You see people come into jail and then they leave
and they come back and you'restill waiting and you're like
how the heck does this personkeep coming back and leaving and
I'm still here?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Well, I'm giving you the same information every
single time every single timethat could have stopped you from
going.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Exactly so.
That's also why I say likethere's all.
There's so many differentangles to this right, it's not
just a one-sided thing, it'slike.
This is why this has happened.
This is why systems are inplace.
Because of these things thathappen now, we have people that
are in systems that now, becausethey're only human they might
not have mistakes or they have abad day and then all of a
(22:05):
sudden you're dealing with it.
So it's.
We just got to make sure that,as parents, we're accountable
for helping our childrennavigate their mental health, as
well as having us our ownselves be able to have that
self-care that time, to be ableto have that self-care right and
that time to be able tocommunicate, like I communicate
(22:27):
with all my children's mothers,because it's important to me
that all our children have thatsupport from both parents and
being able to understand wherethey both come from.
Because I know when I wasyounger I didn't have my father
in my life.
I always had this questionwhere the heck do I come from?
Who?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
am I.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Why do I feel this way?
Why do I act this way?
And when I don't have a answer,you might get angry.
You get angry, frustrated, getfrustrated.
And then you might say or do,and do, say or do the wrong
thing, and it's just 10, 10percent of a decision making is
your decision making and thatthat time, that one, that that
one time out of 10 percent,changes your whole life.
(23:09):
Yeah, it changed your wholelife.
So that's why, like I'm alwaysmentally checking right I'm
making, I'm having a mentalcheck on how am I feeling?
Why am I feeling this?
Why is this person saying Imight even think too much?
And I got to tell myself well,you're thinking too much, that's
okay, because you're not goingto be able to have all the
(23:31):
answers to questions and answersto everything, but as long as
you're asking those questions,the Most High is going to give
them to you because you've askedit.
Mary, they say don't ask.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Don't ask questions that you don't want the answers
to.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right, because if you say god can, or you ask, can
you give me patience?
Oh, how are you going most high?
Gonna give you patience in away that you didn't expect, and
so that's that's how we have tounderstand and live and navigate
our life.
Man is to make sure that godhas always taught us, even in
the scriptures if you want to gobiblical, any scripture.
(24:05):
It talks about how you'resupposed to be there as a parent
for your children so that theycan honor you.
How can your children honor youif you don't put any ownership
into them, if you don't buildthat into them right, you don't
guide them right?
They don't understand that.
And then people think honor orloyalty is's something different
(24:29):
.
You know, they, they, theyrationalize that differently,
but it all starts at the home.
It all starts with the motherand father.
That's why they say the thechildren is only as perfect as a
parent, because it starts inthe home.
So mental health has to be like, rooted and and talked about in
the home, so that they canunderstand when they go out into
(24:52):
the world.
Everyone else has their owndifferent view of what mental
health is, until they come in aroom with everyone who has these
learned behaviors or these, uh,what they call trauma-informed
care lessons, then theyunderstand that everyone's
mental traumas are different,but we all handle them somewhat
similar.
It's just the way that theyhandle it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It does.
So what's next for you, man?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I'll be doing a parental program in martial arts
, so it's like a challengeprogram from parents and
children and we'll be doing itover at capital city bjj.
A promotion from uh children'sfighting championship that we're
going to be doing, um, bringingchildren and mom and dad in to
do programming, uh, martial arts, being able to work with each
(25:40):
other, learn how to actually usethe pads, learn how to be
partners and have this open,this communication style for
them to be able to learn tocommunicate and be able to break
the ice Right.
Like I said, I'm an advocatefor having the door open for my
children to talk about whateverthey need to talk about, so that
I can help navigate that.
And then I'm open for them toteach me.
(26:01):
My three year old, my four yearold daughter, teaches me, so
I'm open to that.
Now she's in wrestling, so youknow, just giving them those
spaces.
So that's what's next for me isjust being able to be in their
life as a coach, as a father,but also give this um, what I
have to offer to the communityand if people want to get
involved with the fatherhoodprogram, how do they do that?
(26:24):
so can go, and you can email meat echrisler E-C-R-I-S-L-E-R at
ulgmorg.
Or you can go to ulgmorgwebsite that's the Urban League
of Greater Madison website andyou can go and fill out a
membership application.
Or you can just call up to theUrban League and just ask for me
(26:44):
and they'll reach out.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Absolutely Well, eugene.
I really appreciate youstopping by and coming on the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I really appreciate you having me and, man, I've
been seeing a lot of your workand being here and seeing the
things that you have here.
I didn't know that you cookedand do all that, and so it's
like getting to know you.
I appreciate you bringing meinto here and I can get to know
you even more, so I hope that wecan be able to do some more
work together too.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Absolutely.
Me too.
I'm D-Star Until next time,guys.
How do people get involved in this fatherhood
group?
Who do they call?
Do they got an email Like howdo they get involved?
So generally, and then not tocut you off, but what is the
demographic that you're lookingfor?
You know black, white, whatkind of people, what kind of
circumstances.
Take me through it.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Essentially what happens is we have a partnership
with the county for Children'sFirst, which they would get if
you're paying child support ornot paying child support.
You go to court.
They say, hey, you're incontempt, but we're going to put
you, we're going to hold thatcontempt order off If you take
this program, if you take thisprogram, and so you guys are the
program.
The program is Children's First, and Children's First actually
(00:40):
refers clients to me, ok, to theUrban League of Greater Madison
Fatherhood Group, and then sothey'll get that.
But then there's people thatcall the Urban League saying,
hey, I have this going on and acourt says this or I don't know,
but I heard that this happened.
Eugene does this group and Iwant to get into it.
(01:01):
So word of mouth, referrals andjust walk-ins is generally how
I get them.
Mouth referrals and justwalk-ins it's generally how I
get them.
And typically the audience thatare there black fathers, those
who have been in the system.
Majority of them have been inthe system.
I've had fathers who haveworked and had a six-figure job
salary and everything is goinggood, but all of a sudden they
(01:24):
get divorced, wife takes themoney and now they're on food
stamps and now they're homeless.
So it is a wide, wide range ofindividuals, but the common
people are those who um have,who are subject to poverty, is
what I would say.
They're subject to poverty andum don't have a job or, you know
, have some AOD, so they call itA-O-D-A requirements and I try
(01:49):
to, just, in that space, buildthem up, and you're one of the
best people to do that, becauseyou have a lot of lived
experience yourself.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
With mental health issues run-ins with the law.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Right, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So I was just reading some of the information that
you sent me earlier and I seenthat you got shot at the radio
station.
You are on suicide watch at theDane County Jail and I know
that they're working towardsbettering conditions there and I
don't want to slam them becauseyou know they can only do so
much.
But I was asked this question.
(02:23):
We know what the DLC is doingwrong.
What?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
do you feel like the DLC is doing right?
A couple of months ago theycame out National National
Criminal Justice Center ofOshkosh Fox Valley area, came
out with assessment, withreentry to fatherhood, and they
understand that if fathers don'tget that support, there's just
there's going to be issues forthem to be able to help their
children out right.
So they know that there's aneed to have a re-entry program
(02:49):
for fathers non-custodialparents as well to be able to do
that.
So I would say that is onething that I've seen that the
DLC has done, but I also knowthat it's a hard challenge to be
able to so it's a lot ofbureaucracy.
Right, exactly, it's a lot ofred tape.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
It's a lot of things that they have to fight through
because it's not like everybodyin the DOC wants it to be a
certain way, you know.
But it all really comes down tofunding who's in office at the
time and you what's going on,you know, as far as budgeting
and things like that.
So, yeah, I just want to getyour take on that from somebody
(03:30):
who's actually had lived in,lived experience, going through
the system and seeing thesethings firsthand.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know the conditions of the dane county
jail, um, the old jail, you knowknow, yeah, and shout out to
you know, sheriff Barrett,because you know he came into as
a sheriff, you know dealingwith a lot of stuff, and I've
sat there and spoke with him andyou know he was battling a lot
(03:57):
to try to get the new jail up.
So I want to just really raiseit up because he, as a black man
, black father, black sheriff,in a town, a city that we live
in, he's overcame some barriers.
So I just wanted to shout thatout and he has been in a fight
for years to try to get this newjail and I'm glad that is
(04:19):
happening now and I've seen theblueprints of it and I've seen
the blueprints of it and I'vesaid this If the quality of the
staff, if the staff can be justas great as what this building,
looks like as a facility, thenwe're on point and he took that
(04:42):
and he understood, understoodthat and he raised that issue up
and he ended up bringing a newservice providers in for mental
health and they look like us,wow.
So I really think that we dohave to also understand that
people who are in service,wherever they're in the police
department or anything like thatthere are people there that are
(05:05):
actually trying to help.
So I think that's important tohighlight that, instead of all
this negative crap that we'vebeen seeing, that we hear in
mainstream media and all thisLike in our city, there are
people there in the spaces thatwe put in spaces to be able to
change the narrative and thetrajectory that we need to go to
be able to change the narrativeand the trajectory that we need
(05:27):
to go?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, and I don't want to.
You know, people look at a citylike ours and they say, oh,
it's very progressive and it'svery, you know, left wing and
things of that nature and itlooks like we're being very
lenient on crime.
But what people got to reallyunderstand is we're talking
about the jail.
We're not talking about theprison right now.
We're talking about the jailand 80 percent of the people
(06:09):
that's in jail right now.
We at least have to treat themlike they're innocent.
You know what I mean Like theyare human beings.
You know what I mean, and theyneed access to sunlight and
exercise and you know food.
You know what I mean.
And then don't charge them, youknow, hundreds of dollars a
(06:31):
week to get on the phone andthings like that.
So it's like these are innocentpeople by every stretch.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
According, to the constitutional law.
They're still innocent.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
They're still innocent until proven guilty.
So if they haven't beenconvicted of a crime, these are
innocent people, so we can'ttreat them like they're still
innocent.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
they're still innocent until proven guilty, so
they, if they haven't beenconvicted of a crime, um, these
are innocent people, so we can'ttreat them like they're
criminals so check this metaphorout we live in poverty, right,
and we make decisions on basedon our, our situation in
property, right, right,sometimes we may have to make a
decision so that we can put foodon the table and then, all of a
sudden, we go to jail becausewe had to get some food, right?
(07:06):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Sometimes people make these decisions based off of
three things fear, scarcity andlack.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Correct.
And so just think about thatscenario and you put it in a
place like the Dane County Jailand what it looks like right now
.
And innocent people are inthere, but yet their mental
we're going to go back to mentalhealth their environment, the
people that are around and thethings that they have to eat
(07:35):
does not help the fact thatthey're fighting for their life
and they're innocent, but yet wehave these cases that get
prolonged and all this this nowbecomes a psychological thing.
And so what ends up happening.
More people get convicted, andthat's why Wisconsin is a 97%
conviction rate.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Because they just want to get out of there.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
They just want to get out of there.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
All right, whatever, I'll take the probation.
Or, okay, a year.
All right, just give me theyear.
I'm sick of it because I don'tget this time back.
I I'm sick of because I don'tget this time back.
I get it, quote unquote,credited, but I don't get the
time back.
You know what I'm saying.
So I go through this wholeprocess, I get found not guilty,
they let me out, they, you know, expunged my record, all of
(08:17):
this.
But that two, three years, thatI sat in there fighting this
case.
I'd never get that back.
Now I have to completelyrebuild my whole life.
It only takes two weeks.
I'm going to tell you thatright now.
You get locked up for two weeksyou're going to have to rebuild
everything.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Everything's gone.
I actually wrote something thatI was actually incarcerated at
the time on a probation hold andI wrote something and it talked
about Willie Lynch and JimCrowism and how that is actually
prevalent till this day and weeven use it, without even
knowing that we use it right,because it's been projected,
it's been instilled in our it's,in the constitution exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
you know they abolish slavery except when one commits
a crime yeah, until you, untilyou become a felon, like if
you're locked up then then youknow slavery.
You can be an indenture servant.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Exactly, exactly, and so that's why I'm happy that
you know Sheriff Barrettactually kept fighting and kept
going and some years down theroad, but like now, we got, we
got the ball rolling.
So that's going to be good forfor our city, for our people,
(09:26):
yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So, looking forward, what changes or initiatives
would you like to see withincommunities to better support
the mental health and well-beingof African-American children
and families?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You know I'm going to go back to talking about
fatherhood parenting role, right, I think we need.
When we talk about mentalhealth and children, we split
the families up.
Mom and dad might not be havinga good situation when the
relationship they break apart.
Now we know that this happens.
(10:01):
Where mom and dad were arguing,now children are involved.
I really feel like we need tobe progressive on talking about
what parental equity looks like,because then both parents can
see that we got to fight for ourchildren in a great, in a good
way, fighting fair, right,understanding what that looks
(10:22):
like.
So more advocacy around.
You know, parental equity andparental rights, especially.
You know and build up fathersRight, because we have this.
We have this stigma aboutthere's fathers that want to be
deadbeats, but that's not true.
You know the numbers don'tsupport that.
The numbers doesn't supportthat.
In fact, I've gone in differentgroups and seen how there's a
(10:44):
lot of fathers that are angrybut they don't know how to
actually use that in the rightplatforms.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Blackdemographiccom, cdccom, says that black men are
the most active fathers of allraces.
That is a fact.
So when people say deadbeatdads, black men are not in the
household, they're not goodfathers.
(11:12):
That's why I say the numbersjust don't support that.
The statistics, the data, allof that does not support that
and it's like we continue to letpeople push that narrative and
I just think it does more harmthan good, especially when it
comes from our own people.
Exactly Saying oh, you know he'sa deadbeat this and that, but
(11:33):
sometimes it's not because theywant to be, not be like in the
kid's life, it's circumstantialyou know, yes, yes it's like man
I just got out, or man I don'teven have enough money right now
to take care of my basic needs.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So or I can't give you some yeah, probation or
parole.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's like I can't you can't squeeze blood out of a
turnip or child support rightit's like so all I have right
now is time, like I can give mytime.
I can't really give thefinancial piece right now, but
and that's important time.
Time is what's important, andthen you so, but it's like okay
well, since you can't supportthe, the financial piece, we're
(12:13):
gonna take the time away, we'regonna lock you up because you
can't support the financialpiece, which is crazy cycle, you
know what I'm saying, it's likeyou're saying, okay, you want
me to be in the kid's life andsupport the child, but it's more
than just financial supportingthe kid, it's everything.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
See, and that's the thing that goes back to mental
health, and they always talkabout what's in the best
interest of the child.
Well, in the best interest ofthe child is making sure that
their mental health is right,because that's how they operate.
We all operate on our livedexperience, our traumas, what we
learned, and so how does thathave anything to do with what's
(12:55):
beneficial for the children?
Now, my own personal storyabout, you know, dealing with
child support and divorce, andyou know the court system,
family court.
I'll just put it plain andsimple.
Now, none of my children'sparents do not actually I'm not
on child support for any of thembecause we figured and realized
(13:17):
that it is important that ourchildren have both of us and
they don't have to be um, havethat recourse or that um, that
um being able to have to dealwith that situation.
Because, whether they don't see,whether they see it or not,
they feel the fact that we arenot actually vibing right, we
are not on the same page,because the energy that they
(13:39):
feel between the transferencefrom okay, you got the kids this
week and I got the kids thatweek in these conversations, and
because, also, what ends uphappening is it starts to become
a reactional thing for thechildren.
They're getting in trouble inschool, they're saying things
like this or doing things likethat.
It's just out of character.
Well, think of what they'regoing through in their life, not
(14:01):
particularly what they aredoing, but what is going on in
their life around them, and thatis important.
So we have a better chancebeing successful for our
children when we stop havingsystems control us and tell us
how we are supposed to have ourchildren overnight or have what?
(14:23):
custody stuff like that.
I get it.
There are people that need that, but that's for people that
need it.
You can't generalize that,because once you start
generalizing that, then there'sa systemic issue, a systemic
inequity, where, while you're inhere, this system is for these
who don't want to take care oftheir children, who don't have a
(14:43):
job.
But you're talking aboutsomeone who sat in prison for
maybe 10, 20 years and they haveall this child support and now
you're telling them that they'regoing to be potentially going
back to jail because they oweall this money that you kept
accumulating.
It doesn't make sense.
We're creating a cycle ofpoverty.
(15:04):
That's what we're doing insystems that we're supposed to
be trusted in.
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It does make sense.
But one thing that I doappreciate on what the family
court services is doing now isthat before you go to mediation,
they actually make you takethis class and it actually gives
you a lot of information aboutwhat the mediation is actually
for, what are some of the legalramifications of this whole
(15:37):
process, and they just give youa lot more information about
what the roles andresponsibilities are for you as
a parent, and so it kind ofbreaks down some of those
misconceptions of what the rolesand responsibilities are,
because a lot of times we comeinto these situations and we
(15:58):
don't know, because we're notlawyers, right?
So you just going off of whatyou heard or what you thought,
or you know experiences fromother people, and so you're like
, oh man, I'm not going to beable to see my kids, or I'm not
going to be able to do this andthat and that and this, and it's
like, no, you guys are bothparents you guys are both
(16:21):
entitled to this, as long as youknow they're not in any danger
it's split down the middle andall you have to do is ask for it
right, and it's like.
Ignorance of the law is nodefense.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
No, when you're going through these situations, the
best way to protect yourself iswith information and knowledge
and and I've been through thatprocess and I'll tell you more
too, because we do have a clinicthat we do it's called the
Family Service Clinic that wehave child support agency, and
then the Family Law Clinic comein Also.
(16:50):
We have Lift Wisconsin thatcomes in, and we have this
monthly get-together at theUrban League and we have people
who have signed up to talk tochild support and try to work
with them, and all you got to dois communicate All you got to
do is communicate.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So let me ask you this, because I think this is
very, very, very important whatare some of the biggest things
that you've learned?
What are some of the biggestmisconceptions that fathers come
in or mothers come in thinkingthat, oh, I can't do this or I'm
going to have to do this, orthey're going to take half of my
check?
Or what are some of the biggestmisconceptions that you think
(17:25):
that people can help people?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I'm glad that you asked that, because I can think
of two, and it might be a thirdone after I say the two.
One whenever you go in courtfor the first time, you're not
seeing a judge, you're seeing acommissioner.
If you do not like what thatcommissioner has said, you have
to put in a de novo which isfree to file, but you only have
a certain amount of days.
It's 20 days, but I'm going tosay 10 days.
(17:50):
So then you don't wait thatlast day to file that de novo,
and then you'll go right up tothe judge, right, and so that's
one thing.
And don't miss your court date,don't miss those.
Don't don't miss those courtdates.
And don't miss the mediationdates.
Do not miss the mediation dates.
And on top of that, they willtell you while they're
(18:13):
explaining to you thisinformational session, when
you're going through thismediation.
Hey, before you go, before yougo into the mediation, they say
this is the process and thething that you want to hear is
the words.
Words have meaning.
They say collateral information.
They're going to go and meetanybody and everybody that you
(18:36):
speak about or has been aroundyou, and they're going to get
information and it's calledcollateral information, and that
means that they're going to seewho is going to be best fit to
handle or decision for theirchild, your child.
That's one Two.
What was the second one?
(18:58):
That was a major one, though,that's major that's major Making
sure that you go to court.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
There's a commissioner and you will have
to pay a fee for the class, butif you fall in a certain tax
bracket you might be eligiblefor a waiver.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And then there's a $50 a month when you're dealing
with guard them and light them.
Depending on your financialsituation.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But I mean, I just think it's so important because
a lot of people have a lot ofmisconceptions about what that
process looks like.
And I did a whole show onfamily court and child support,
from both aspects.
I had a group of men and I hada group of women and
surprisingly, they were sayingthe same exact thing we don't
(19:42):
want child support.
We don't want child support, wedon't, we would rather have the
father or we would rather havethe relationship with the father
or with the mother.
Because I would be able to domore than you put me on child
support.
Because we're life, right.
I mean, we're not like, we'rehuman beings, right, we're
adults and the economyfluctuates up and down and you
(20:05):
just regular life man.
Some days I got it, some days Idon't.
Right.
You know, some months somethingmight pop up.
You know what I'm saying.
My water heater might go outand I might need to fix that.
You know, things happen, lifewill life.
You sometimes right, right, soI might not have three, four
hundred dollars to give you thismonth.
So right, right, but I mighthave four, five hundred dollars
(20:28):
to give you next month.
Right, but I might have $400 or$500 to give you next month.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
So I'm glad that you brought that, because it brought
back the second thing I wasgoing to say.
You don't need to put so whenthey say, hey, you need to pay
this much a month at this timeevery week, sometimes you might
not have it.
Like you said, as long asyou're paying something, it can
be $2, it can be $5.
As long as you're payingsomething, that's all that
(20:52):
matters, because they can't saythat you have not been paying.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And that's what I've seen a lot of people have done.
Like I went into the job centerthe other day, on Wednesday,
and I go once a month to talk toChildren's First participants
and I said, look, we got to beaccountable.
If you don't have a job I knowyou can get $5 because some of
you smoke cigarettes Right, justtake that $5 and send it there.
If you don't got a job, thenthey'll get off your back.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
You won't go to jail because it has to be like 100
and something days since thelast time you made a payment,
right?
So if you make a $2 payment,you can never get locked up.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You see people come into jail and then they leave
and they come back and you'restill waiting and you're like
how the heck does this personkeep coming back and leaving and
I'm still here?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Well, I'm giving you the same information every
single time every single timethat could have stopped you from
going.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Exactly so.
That's also why I say likethere's all.
There's so many differentangles to this right, it's not
just a one-sided thing, it'slike.
This is why this has happened.
This is why systems are inplace.
Because of these things thathappen now, we have people that
are in systems that now, becausethey're only human they might
not have mistakes or they have abad day and then all of a
(22:05):
sudden you're dealing with it.
So it's.
We just got to make sure that,as parents, we're accountable
for helping our childrennavigate their mental health, as
well as having us our ownselves be able to have that
self-care that time, to be ableto have that self-care right and
that time to be able tocommunicate, like I communicate
(22:27):
with all my children's mothers,because it's important to me
that all our children have thatsupport from both parents and
being able to understand wherethey both come from.
Because I know when I wasyounger I didn't have my father
in my life.
I always had this questionwhere the heck do I come from?
Who?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
am I.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Why do I feel this way?
Why do I act this way?
And when I don't have a answer,you might get angry.
You get angry, frustrated, getfrustrated.
And then you might say or do,and do, say or do the wrong
thing, and it's just 10, 10percent of a decision making is
your decision making and thatthat time, that one, that that
one time out of 10 percent,changes your whole life.
(23:09):
Yeah, it changed your wholelife.
So that's why, like I'm alwaysmentally checking right I'm
making, I'm having a mentalcheck on how am I feeling?
Why am I feeling this?
Why is this person saying Imight even think too much?
And I got to tell myself well,you're thinking too much, that's
okay, because you're not goingto be able to have all the
(23:31):
answers to questions and answersto everything, but as long as
you're asking those questions,the Most High is going to give
them to you because you've askedit.
Mary, they say don't ask.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Don't ask questions that you don't want the answers
to.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Right, because if you say god can, or you ask, can
you give me patience?
Oh, how are you going most high?
Gonna give you patience in away that you didn't expect, and
so that's that's how we have tounderstand and live and navigate
our life.
Man is to make sure that godhas always taught us, even in
the scriptures if you want to gobiblical, any scripture.
(24:05):
It talks about how you'resupposed to be there as a parent
for your children so that theycan honor you.
How can your children honor youif you don't put any ownership
into them, if you don't buildthat into them right, you don't
guide them right?
They don't understand that.
And then people think honor orloyalty is's something different
(24:29):
.
You know, they, they, theyrationalize that differently,
but it all starts at the home.
It all starts with the motherand father.
That's why they say the thechildren is only as perfect as a
parent, because it starts inthe home.
So mental health has to be like, rooted and and talked about in
the home, so that they canunderstand when they go out into
(24:52):
the world.
Everyone else has their owndifferent view of what mental
health is, until they come in aroom with everyone who has these
learned behaviors or these, uh,what they call trauma-informed
care lessons, then theyunderstand that everyone's
mental traumas are different,but we all handle them somewhat
similar.
It's just the way that theyhandle it, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
It does.
So what's next for you, man?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I'll be doing a parental program in martial arts
, so it's like a challengeprogram from parents and
children and we'll be doing itover at capital city bjj.
A promotion from uh children'sfighting championship that we're
going to be doing, um, bringingchildren and mom and dad in to
do programming, uh, martial arts, being able to work with each
(25:40):
other, learn how to actually usethe pads, learn how to be
partners and have this open,this communication style for
them to be able to learn tocommunicate and be able to break
the ice Right.
Like I said, I'm an advocatefor having the door open for my
children to talk about whateverthey need to talk about, so that
I can help navigate that.
And then I'm open for them toteach me.
(26:01):
My three year old, my four yearold daughter, teaches me, so
I'm open to that.
Now she's in wrestling, so youknow, just giving them those
spaces.
So that's what's next for me isjust being able to be in their
life as a coach, as a father,but also give this um, what I
have to offer to the communityand if people want to get
involved with the fatherhoodprogram, how do they do that?
(26:24):
so can go, and you can email meat echrisler E-C-R-I-S-L-E-R at
ulgmorg.
Or you can go to ulgmorgwebsite that's the Urban League
of Greater Madison website andyou can go and fill out a
membership application.
Or you can just call up to theUrban League and just ask for me
(26:44):
and they'll reach out.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Absolutely Well, eugene.
I really appreciate youstopping by and coming on the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I really appreciate you having me and, man, I've
been seeing a lot of your workand being here and seeing the
things that you have here.
I didn't know that you cookedand do all that, and so it's
like getting to know you.
I appreciate you bringing meinto here and I can get to know
you even more, so I hope that wecan be able to do some more
work together too.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Absolutely.
Me too.
I'm D-Star Until next time,guys.
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