April 2, 2025 • 45 mins
Behind every marketing campaign is a psychological lever. Fear, pride, trust, guilt, envy—these emotional triggers influence the way people think, click, and buy. But where’s the line between persuasion and manipulation?
In this episode of Over The Bull, host Ken Carroll breaks down the emotional triggers that drive modern marketing. From classic examples like Edward Bernays’ “Torches of Freedom” campaign to everyday brand tactics used by tech, fitness, and nonprofits, this episode pulls back the curtain on how emotions are engineered into strategy.
We talk about:
• The most common emotional triggers used in digital marketing
• How brands use (and abuse) trust, fear, guilt, envy, and altruism
• Where these tactics cross the line—and how to use them responsibly
• What business owners need to know to avoid getting played
If you’ve ever wondered why a campaign “just works” or felt uneasy about how something made you click, this one’s for you.
Over The Bull is brought to you by IntegrisDesign.com. All rights reserved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You're listening to Over the Bull, where we cut
through marketing noise.
Here's your host, Ken Carroll.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Marketing is all around us, isn't it?
I mean, we are bombarded withmarketing all the time.
I was watching the ballgame theother day, and I was watching
the pharmaceutical commercials.
And, you know, they would talkabout subtly like their
medication helping preventcardiovascular disease or heart
(00:30):
attacks or all these scarythings that drive and motivate
people.
This is an example of anemotional trigger.
And today on Over the Bull,we're going to talk about
emotional triggers.
But there's more to it than justthe triggers themselves.
Now, these triggers have beenaround with man since the
beginning of recorded history.
(00:51):
We're all motivated by thesetriggers.
Now, the question becomes, atwhat point are we crossing some
ethical boundaries when usingthese triggers?
And how do we properly utilizethem?
Now, if you remember in the lastpodcast talking to Brendan about
graphic design, you see thewaters get very muddy very
(01:12):
quick.
You know, it becomes an issue ofhow you do it.
How do you do it optimally?
Well, when it comes to ethicsand emotional triggers, there's
also a similar type issue.
So the question is, is whatemotional triggers do you use?
How does it fit with yourphilosophy in business?
And what do you do to help itgrow your business?
(01:35):
Now, I'm going to give a littlebit of a comment before I talk
about emotional triggers.
Well, because emotional triggerstrigger people emotionally.
And I want to talk about somethings today that may trigger
your emotions.
But it's not meant to create apolitical or a divide of any
kind.
What it's mainly meant to do isto illustrate the potential for
(01:58):
how these things are used inpositive and negative ways.
And so keep in mind that anystatement that I make, they're
particularly designed asexamples and not making a
worldview assessment.
So yes, essentially, emotionaltriggers trigger people
emotionally.
Well, let's get diving right inhere.
(02:19):
All right, the first emotionaltrigger, and one of the most
popular, is fear.
Now, fear is a very, verypowerful driving mechanism in
marketing.
Pharmaceutical companies usefear very well, and they also
use it very subtly.
Like, for example, what they'lldo is tell you that, you know,
(02:41):
basically if you don't taketheir medication, you could die
from this, die from that, havethese kind of complications that
no one wants to have.
And so survival at its core issomething that they're
triggering very subtly but verystrongly.
The other thing that they do isthey typically show events of
(03:02):
where people seem happy.
And they seem like they'reliving a fulfilled, happy life
and doing what they want to,which is also what we want as
human beings.
And so it makes sense thatthey're using this to build both
sides of this.
One, you don't take themedication.
(03:22):
You can die.
You can have kidney disease.
You could lose a limb.
You could whatever.
On the other side, if you takeour medication...
You're going to experience thisfreedom and this happiness,
which is why they show peoplebaking cookies or going for a
walk or going to the park.
There are things that we want todo and want to enjoy, and we can
(03:43):
usually enjoy those better ifwe're in peak physical
condition.
There's also another marketingtactic that's used in the
pharmaceutical commercials, andthat is the side effect.
Now, we think that they'reshowing the side effects because
they have to show the sideeffect.
But there are studies that showthat when they show side
(04:03):
effects, it gives people moreconfidence that it's likely to
fix their ailment because theyhave a little give and take in
the equation.
And so actually that's part ofthe whole marketing strategy
too.
So how does this apply to youand your business?
Should you use fear?
I mean, fear tactics do workvery well.
Or should you not?
(04:25):
Now, these are ethicalquestions.
From a marketing perspective, Wejust simply want to sell
products if we look at itagnostically.
But the idea is the people thatyou hire, the tactics that they
use, the recommendations thatthey make could cross some
ethical boundaries, althoughthey're extremely effective.
Now let's move on to number two.
(04:47):
Number two is greed.
Greed is extremely effective.
What you do is you createspecial offers or exclusive
benefits that that makes someonewant to take advantage of it
because they want to takeadvantage of those deals.
Now, it could be that they'refrugal, which is true, but it's
also playing on the idea thatthey want a little more than
(05:09):
they can normally get.
And so this is something thatcould work, and the ethical
dilemma in greed is, well, it'squestionable.
So, for example, if you're goingto give them something more than
you normally would through aspecial offer or exclusive
event, then essentially you aredoing nothing more than giving
(05:31):
them something for nothing,which in all essence, I don't
see a lot wrong with that.
Although you are feeding theconcept of the person's innate
desire to be greedy.
What I mean by that is, do wewant to fuel that fire within
the individual or not?
So between the two, obviouslyfear is a little more
(05:52):
predator-like in the way that itapproaches things.
Number three on the list isbelonging.
Believe it or not, manycompanies use this in an
extremely negative capacity andsome use it in a very positive
capacity.
Now the problem is, asmarketers, we understand
creating a sense of belonging issomething that people want
(06:16):
innately.
And so if it's used in amalicious way, people could take
a cause.
They could take an event, andthen they try to bring you into
it.
And so this concept of belongingis strong.
And so if you see someone who'strying to appeal to you because
(06:37):
you have certain attributes inyour life, if you love cars, if
you have a certain religiousbelief, if you have a certain
non-religious belief.
Creating that sense of belongingis something that is very strong
and can pull you into donating,giving your time, giving your
(06:57):
money or energy to those causesbecause they're trying to create
that sense.
Now, if it's an honest attemptat really trying to bring
like-minded people together fora good cause, then from a
marketing perspective, that'sextremely ethical.
However, if it's used in a waythat is trying to manipulate
someone, obviously it'sunethical.
(07:20):
A few years ago, there was acommercial and it was for
laundry detergent.
And the laundry detergentadvertisement, it had nothing to
do with laundry.
It had to do with acceptance ofa certain group of people.
And the statement was one thatsounded like, hey, we're part of
this group and being part ofthat group What it made you
(07:43):
think or tried to make youthink, if you didn't have your
marketing lens on, was thatparticular laundry detergent
company was all about trying tocreate quality within a certain
group of people.
Now, this particular laundrydetergent company could also
give money to the cause.
They could also do other thingsthat would help support it.
(08:06):
Now, the question becomes, arethey donating money and are they
creating these commercials?
because they're truly altruisticabout that particular cause?
Or is it because what they'retrying to do is manipulate a
certain group of people andmaybe fringe people around that
particular cause to think thatthis company cares more than
(08:28):
they do and therefore theyshould buy their product?
Now, if it's big corporations,99% of the time you can bank
that they've done somedemographic studies or they have
an agenda.
And they're trying to do it tosell more product by creating
this sense of community.
Now, this is manipulative in itscore.
(08:50):
Now, if it's a differentsituation where people are
trying to go in and buildlike-minded people together,
then, of course, that's a littlebit different because then it's
an honest effort.
And so, as you can see, theproblem with stuff like this...
Let me jump over here for onesecond.
The problem with situations likethis is that people are becoming
(09:15):
less trusting because they seethat they're being manipulated.
Now, a lot of people don'trealize that they kind of just
go under the radar and they hearabout a cause or something that
they're close to and they don'tput two and two together, that
the laundry detergent company isjust trying to sell product.
But the problem is, is when youmix that kind of deceptive way
(09:36):
with an ethical way, theneverything kind of gets put into
one group.
And the ethical use of trying tocreate a sense of community
versus the unethical way to doit, it becomes so blurred that
now this is a little bittrickier to navigate.
And it requires more credibilityfactor to show that you're not
(09:57):
trying just to manipulatepeople.
And so as you can see, althoughit's strong and powerful, if
it's used in a way that'sdishonest, then it'll have a
very limited life to begin with.
Like, for example, if you lookat the detergent commercial, you
can tell it was a campaign thatthey were doing to see how well
it would affect sales because itquickly died.
(10:19):
You didn't hear about thecompany talking about this
particular cause months later oryears later.
It was a very specific run.
Now, other companies whoabsolutely, and organizations,
non-profits, who do have anallegiance to a cause or
community or group oflike-minded people, often
there's a longer track record ofthem doing this.
(10:41):
And so just a quick tip fromOver the Bull, if you see those
kind of commercials but youdon't see them sticking to it,
you're being manipulated intothinking you're part of
something that they're reallynot a part of.
The next one up is trust.
Trust is a very honorable term.
emotional trigger, especiallywhen you're using it, well,
(11:04):
truthfully.
So the thing is, is that how canyou build trust within a group
of people?
Number one is how long you'vebeen in business.
Number two would be yourpartnerships or different things
that you're associated with thathelps build your credibility and
trust.
For example, at Integris Design,we spend a lot of our time,
(11:24):
effort, and energy to keep ourpartnerships.
Because we think that if we havepartnerships and we're certified
with those partnerships, thenthat's going to build a sense of
trust.
Now, we don't do that just to doit because our skill set doesn't
change, but it's something thatwe're doing to help instill
trust.
And so in your case, what youcould do is go through and
(11:46):
create those partnerships orcreate that credibility standard
or also let people know aboutthe credibility that you already
have to help build that trust.
For example...
If you've been in business fortwo decades and you don't tell
anybody about it, then theydon't know that, and they're not
going to look for those things.
And that could actually be afairly strong call to action in
certain markets, your longevity.
(12:07):
The other thing is maybe doingbackground checks.
Things like that could also beways in which you could build
trust.
Now, of course, trust can bemanipulated as well.
Now, used unethically, trust canstill work.
For example, if a brand slapstrusted by 10,000 customers on a
landing page with no data, itcould manipulate people into
(12:30):
making a purchase.
Say an ad promotes a free trial,but users are locked into
subscriptions and hidden fees.
Well, this is also a way tomanipulate trust.
People see free trial, but thenthey're manipulated on the back
end.
And so another one would beagencies who have said that
they've been able to get rankingon the top page of Google within
(12:54):
24 hours.
So these things sell.
And honestly, there becomes anethical boundary on a lot of
these as well because from amarketing perspective, we want
to sell product.
And so to put something on awebsite that's disingenuous is
very tempted by marketingcompanies because marketing
(13:14):
companies, they want to be ableto send more business to people.
And at the end of the day, ifthey're not guided by a
conscience, then they're goingto use deceptive practices in
order to increase self.
So from a business standpoint,again, you're at this emotional
crossroads where you go, is itworth it?
Should I do that?
Should I sell my business soulin order to sell more product or
(13:38):
should I be more ethical?
Oh, and the next one's up.
It's one of the seven deadlysins also, right?
It's envy.
Of course, we want to be able topush envy in marketing.
And so envy is a very trickyone.
So you can imagine right out ofthe gate, this is a very
questionable ethical approach,especially with some
(13:59):
philosophical background.
But the idea is to make peoplefeel envious of what other
people have.
Now, tech companies eat,breathe, and sleep off envy.
You know, just imagine thosecommercials where they imply,
look at what they have.
Don't you want to be like them?
Don't you want to be one of thecool kids in the room?
(14:20):
You know, we're all conditionedthis from very young to want to
have the best things.
We see designer clothes,designer whatever.
We see the best tech or the bestbackpacks or whatever.
And then we see peopleassociated with them and we go,
wow, I want to be like that.
I want to have that.
And so luxury brands or fitnessapps or products, you know,
you'll get this great body in 90days.
(14:43):
Or you may see a social mediagrowth tool.
You know, your competitor gained10K followers.
Look at what they did to dothat.
You see, it's appealing to thisenvy of what other people have
that you want to have.
And so the idea is, do you wantto play upon that?
Do you want to use that to youradvantage?
And if so, how do we use thatwhere it's an ethical practice
(15:07):
versus something that's notethical or trying to pull those
triggers for people?
And if you want to know classicexamples of how this is being
used in the world today, youreally need to look no further
than marketing.
I mean, people, because they'reso deluded into thinking that
the internet is like this magicway that you can spin gold out
(15:28):
of nothing, that oftentimes whenthey get approached by email or
a phone call or a certain salespitch, they will use the idea of
how effective it is for otherbusinesses like them.
And they don't have any gold.
The emperor has no clothes.
Real marketing takes work, time,effort, trial, error, all those
(15:49):
things that don't sell very wellin a sales pitch.
But that's the reality of it.
What they're doing is usingthese stories, these things
where they're trying to push youinto a product by making you
envious of what other peoplehave.
So how many times have youbought into one of these deals
where they've told you thatthey're going to be able to
produce something, string youalong for, 90 days, 120 days,
(16:13):
something like that before yourealize it.
What's really funny is a lot ofthese companies even realize how
long you'll be with them onceyou sign up.
And their goal is to just keepyou for as long as they can do
it and then rinse, lather, andrepeat.
They pay no attention to thewake of people that are left
behind, the businesses that aredisillusioned, the businesses
(16:33):
that fail because of whatthey've done.
But they don't care.
They're trying to just sell aproduct through making you
envious.
and having that sense ofscarcity to push you into
something.
So for your own business, whatdo you do?
Do you try to push on envy?
Do you try to use that as atactic, or do you not?
Is there even an ethical way touse envy as an approach to sell
(16:55):
something to someone?
Or do we take the big techroute, and do we show other
people who are dancing in thestreets, listening to music, or
taking those pictures, or doingthose things that make you feel
like you're special?
Now, here's the weird thingabout this.
This has actually been aroundway before the tech company.
(17:17):
The automotive industry reallyused this historically.
What they would do is they wouldprey upon people who were maybe
going through a midlife crisis.
So they would show the guydriving around the car with the
young girl in the passenger sideof the vehicle.
And then he wasn't reallyassociating the vehicle with...
having a nice vehicle, per se.
What he's doing is associatingwith a lifestyle, like an
(17:40):
expectation.
It's preying upon his desire tohave a certain thing, maybe
recapture that little bit ofyouth that he wants to
recapture.
You know, preying uponimmaturity versus the next
chapter in his life.
And so by doing that, they'reable to sell cars.
Well, that's why you buy thelatest and greatest mobile
(18:00):
phone.
You're doing it because...
They're telling you to do itbecause they want you to think
that if you don't have it,you're not going to have the
greatest widgets in the worldand you're not going to be one
of the cool kids.
You're going to pull your phoneup in a public place and people
are going to laugh at youbecause it's so old.
I can tell you I run severalgenerations back on my phone.
I don't care.
(18:20):
It doesn't matter.
It's not a status thing for me.
But you can see from a businessstandpoint how you could use
something like this to furtheryour business.
Oh, and then we have guilt.
Guilt is a very powerfulmotivator in marketing.
And yes, it can be used inethical ways, and it can be used
(18:41):
in unethical ways.
So let's explore maybe a fewexamples of how guilt is used in
marketing today.
For just a dollar a day, you cansave a child's life.
Wow, who wouldn't want to save akid's life for a dollar a day?
Seems like something everyonewould want to do.
(19:02):
Fitness and health products.
You've let yourself go.
Isn't it time you start caringabout your health?
You see, this is a guilt tacticto prey upon your knowing that
you're probably not eating orworking out or doing things that
you need to do.
And so fitness apps or otherkind of things, they'll use this
little sense of guilt in orderto trigger you.
(19:25):
How about this one?
Every plastic bottle you throwaway hurts the planet.
Boy, don't that make you feelguilty.
You see, so someone who has ahypersensitive tendency toward
guilt can be easily manipulatedusing some of these practices.
And oftentimes, it does work.
(19:46):
Now, the question is, is it usedethically or is it used
unethically?
Because sometimes people, it's agood motivator, you know, if
it's legitimate.
But if we're using it to justfurther our motivations and not
really the guilt, orientedtarget, then I think we've got
(20:06):
some issues there.
So here's one that'll, let'stalk about emotional triggers.
Let's see where you fall on thisone.
Let's take COVID.
You know, when it came out, youknow, they would tell you to
wear a mask because you want toprotect your grandma, right?
You want to protect yourneighbor.
You want to be the good guy.
And by wearing a mask, you'reone of the good guys.
(20:29):
Now, I'm not making a judgmentcall.
I'm just trying to get youremotion up.
And as you can see, you probablyfelt a visceral response, maybe
one way or another, toward theidea of wearing masks to protect
other people and to try to guiltyou in to wearing those masks.
So where you fall on thespectrum with that particular
call to action really depends ona lot of factors unrelated to
(20:52):
masks.
It relates to where you are, whoyou trust, who you believe.
Do you think that that's true?
Not true.
And the other thing that usuallyties in with guilt is recurring,
which actually recurringmarketing, remarketing, or
retargeting, depends on thecontext of it, is very powerful
with a lot of these tools.
(21:14):
You know, for example, in theNazi Party, the National
Socialist Party of World War II,one of the things that was
quoted is, if you tell a lie bigenough, and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come tobelieve it.
So the idea is to keeppressuring people with guilt,
make them feel bad, make themfeel that they're destroying the
(21:34):
planet, make them feel certainthings, make them feel that
they're being a little bitselfish by not putting on that
mask.
Those are things that areactually tactics.
Now, again, we have the ethical,unethical dilemma, right?
Was it ethical?
Was it not ethical?
Was it truthful?
Was it Maybe a manipulativetactic, but the good for the
people.
Well, that's for the individualsto decide based upon the actual
(21:59):
data that's out there.
And the next emotional triggerup to bat is pride.
So pride is very powerful aswell.
You know, if you look at somecredit card companies, you may
see a slogan that says, you'veearned this.
You belong here.
You see, we're trying to pullout that sense that somebody's
earned something.
And because they've earned it,now they're ready for our
(22:20):
product.
Or maybe you take some of thetech products.
Think different.
Think better.
Be better.
Be better than that lastgeneration.
You know, think our way.
Be our way.
And this makes people have asense of pride that somehow
they're more superior thanprevious generations or previous
(22:41):
groups because they think acertain way.
They have a different definitionof open-mindedness.
And so this also triggerspeople.
Extremely effective.
Extremely effective inmarketing.
Electric vehicles.
You've worked hard.
You deserve more than theaverage person.
Now, they're not going to say itexactly like that, but that's
essentially what they're saying.
(23:02):
They're preying on your pride,your ability to buy something,
your ability to stand out amongthe group.
You know, as I'm reading this,it's like I'm almost reading the
deadly sin.
You know, it's like, golly, man,it gets bad pretty quick.
And that's why a lot of peopledon't like marketing.
You know, just a quick side notebefore we continue.
People don't like it because itfeels manipulative and
(23:25):
disingenuous.
And for us, what we try to do iswe try to do it in the most
ethical way possible, wherewe're not pulling upon those
triggers.
And it's a challenge in today'sworld, because in a world where
everybody promises everything,it's making people more
skeptical.
And even the honest ethicalapproach to using some of these
tactics is not working aseffectively as it should.
(23:48):
It's almost like the further weget in this big experiment of
being bombarded with all theseapproaches, that people are so
desensitized that you've got toup the game.
You've got to make it moresensationalistic.
And there's always somethingelse to kind of push that.
For example, today, artificialintelligence.
People look at artificialintelligence and they think,
(24:09):
wow, that's really somethingthat's going to propel me to the
next level.
I've got to use AI.
Because, of course, it's smarterthan a sentient human.
I mean, you get all thispropaganda about...
what it does and how it thinksand all these things.
But here's the thing.
It's a really good tool, butit's a good tool within the
context of sentiency.
(24:31):
And it's also a good tool ifit's not skewed toward a certain
worldview, which some of the AItools, really, they're just
there to propel certain agendas,especially when you talk to them
and you see what they come upwith.
You can tell that it's notreally an unbiased set of data.
It's more of a way to try tomanipulate you into thinking a
(24:51):
certain worldview.
And so you got to be carefulwith how you use these things in
your business because, well, itdepends.
Are you going to be theunethical guy who pushes it just
to sell more product?
Are you going to be the ethicalcompany?
Now, what's great about usingemotional triggers in an
unethical way is they can alsobite the people who are using
(25:16):
them unethically.
Of course, they're going to geta bad reputation, but they can
go for years and years on that.
There are marketing companieswho offer sensationalism and
they're still functioning today,being just as unethical today as
they were.
I mean, I remember several yearsago, probably about eight or
nine years ago now, there's avery large company that
(25:38):
specializes in local marketingoptimization.
You know, your Google businessprofile and stuff like that.
And They came to us as an agencyand said, hey, we can do all
this for you and optimize thoselistings, blah, blah, blah, do
all that stuff, you know.
And so we tested it for sixmonths.
(25:58):
And what we found out was thatit didn't work at all.
I mean, it was insane how badthis tool worked.
And this tool is still aroundtoday.
And it's used by a lot ofagencies because they can resell
it and market up significantly.
So they actually hide it behindthe scenes.
Now, even though the averagebusiness owner may not know
(26:18):
this, especially new businesses,and they may not know that
agencies are using it, they'rebecoming aware that the results
are not what is touted to be.
And so it is creating anundercurrent of distrust,
especially among reputableagencies.
Now, of course, there areunethical agencies that will
still push the product becauseit makes them money.
(26:39):
And now let's get back to thelast major emotional trigger.
And that is altruism.
Now, of course, altruism is abelief and a practice of
disinterest or selfless concernfor the well-being of others.
I'm reading the definition ofit.
And so if you look at examplesof altruism, you may have
(27:00):
something like this.
For every pair of shoes you buy,we give a pair to a child in
need.
That's pretty altruistic.
You're not just buying aproduct.
You're supporting a cause.
See altruism.
We feel like we're doingsomething.
Share this message to raiseawareness.
How many times have you gottenthose social media posts and
(27:24):
they say share this with 10people and to bring awareness to
a certain subject?
And man, that still works, Ithink, today.
But it's silly.
It's just a way to gain momentumin social media.
It has nothing to do andoftentimes with the actual cause
itself.
You know, of course, it could beused ethically.
But a lot of companies use thesetactics in order just to
(27:45):
increase their outreach and,again, kind of bring certain
people together who believethey're doing certain things.
So, as you can see, there's alot of emotional triggers and a
lot of polarization in terms ofethics.
And also, the amount that youmanipulate people can make or
break your company, too.
(28:06):
You see?
And depending upon the...
the disposition of the personthat owns a business, they may
use this more or less.
Some people will say, I don'tcare.
I just want to sell moreproduct.
I don't care what the differenceis.
I don't care if it's ethical orunethical.
We'll deal with that down theroad.
And they somehow segment theirpersonal ethics with their
(28:27):
business ethics, which Istruggle with.
I have a hard time breakingthose things up.
So you have to make somedecisions.
Now, here's the weird thing.
If you notice that a lot oftimes when you're given these
examples, they overlap, likealtruism or a sense of
community.
You know, they seem like theyuse these in conjunction with
(28:50):
each other.
Now, it could be unintentionaland it could be intentional.
So let me give you an idea.
If you meet somebody new, it'scommonly known that if you take
that person through a series ofemotions in a short period of
time, you can manipulate thatperson.
into believing that they knowyou better than they do.
(29:11):
For example, if you make someonefeel sad or happy or relate to
their situation in the past andgive them a sense of empathy,
you can actually manipulate thatperson into trusting you and
feeling that they have a senseof knowing you for a lot longer
than they have.
It's like that sense of trust.
(29:31):
And it's an extremelymanipulative tactic that is used
today.
And so the idea is that to bringpeople through a range of
emotions makes them feel likethey know you, they trust you.
So as you can see, marketing isvery, very manipulative.
So let's go in and explore oneof the classic old examples real
(29:54):
quick.
As I mentioned in previouspodcasts, one of the founders of
modern day marketing, his namewas Edward Bernays.
Now, Edward Bernays was thenephew of Sigmund Freud.
And years and years ago, one ofthe things he was challenged
with by the cigarette companieswas to increase smoking in
(30:16):
women.
So they wanted to expand peoplewho are smoking from men to
women.
And they were trying to come upwith a way to encourage that.
So they hired Edward Bernays.
And Edward Bernays went back andhe came up with a concept called
Torches of Freedom.
And so what he did was he goes,look, these are not cigarettes.
(30:39):
These are torches of equality.
And when a woman smokes acigarette, she's saying that she
wants to be equal.
And so what happened wascigarettes, they just started to
increase in sales.
He strategically placed women incertain places that looked and
act a certain way.
And cigarette sales went throughthe roof.
(31:00):
It was a success.
But you see, it wasn't aboutcigarettes.
It was a manipulative tactic tomake people think, women
specifically, that if theysmoked, somehow they were
standing up for their rights bysmoking.
Didn't worry about theirphysical health or anything like
that.
So you see, it was an extremely,arguably unethical way to market
(31:23):
cigarettes to a group that wassusceptible to a cause and not
to smoking in itself.
So for you to think about yourbusiness and what you're going
to do, you're going to have tomake some of these decisions.
And these decisions aren'talways the most fun of
decisions.
Now, we prefer to work withcompanies that are more ethical.
(31:46):
We want to work with people thatreally have a strategic
advantage in the market and wantto push their strategic
advantage.
Now, the thing about emotion,the thing about these emotional
triggers is is they do have tobe used.
They do have to be harnessed,you know, like a gun or a knife
or whatever.
(32:06):
Wield it in the right way, it'sa great tool.
Wield it in the wrong way, it'sa horrible tool.
You know, it can cause damage.
It can cause ripples forgenerations and generations
trying to recover from thedamages that some of these
things cause.
Well, if used in the right way,it could save lives.
You see...
These type of tools that areused in marketing are the exact
(32:29):
same way.
Do you care if you're causingdamage to other people?
Or do you just want to sellproduct?
See, these are very, very toughdecisions.
But why it has to be crossed isin marketing, we know that if
you don't distinguish yourselffrom your competitors, it will
default to price.
(32:49):
And if things default to price,the guy selling it the cheapest
is going to win.
But it's not that easy becausesome people will sell something
and go out of business basicallydoing it.
Or they're trying to use it morein terms of a lead loss, meaning
gain market share.
So they may have some bigfunding and they can be negative
(33:10):
for a long period of time.
If you go back to some ofMicrosoft when they were trying
to break into the video gameindustry, they would run
negatively for some time becausethey were trying to take market
share from more popular gamingsystems at the time.
They could do it because theycould afford to do it.
Now, most of you probably can'tdo that.
(33:32):
Most of you probably don't havethis massive lead loss program
where you're trying to gainmarket share.
Some of you may, some of you maynot.
The strategies are a lotdifferent if you're going to do
that.
But the idea is you have to cometo terms with who you are as a
business.
Are you going to operateethically or unethically?
And if so, what are thoseethical approaches?
(33:52):
What are those ethical triggersthat you can pull that you
believe in?
You know, if it's something thatinvolves community, can you
support the idea that you reallybelieve in that community and
that you've been involved inthat community for some time?
Or are you going to be thedetergent company that tries to
use it in a manipulative way totry to gain a little bit of
(34:12):
market share, dip your toes init to see if it works?
And if it does, then continue todo it.
When you look at your website,If you look at anything, you've
got to create a call to action,some reason to motivate someone
in order to get them to engagewith your company.
And creating that ethical,unethical boundary is tricky.
(34:33):
But we all know sign up for ournewsletter does not work for
email marketing.
We all know that not pushingpeople in certain ways to feel
emotion is not going to work foryou.
you're going to need to drawfrom emotion.
And those emotional triggers aregoing to be the difference
between someone engaging withyour company and not engaging
(34:56):
with your company.
Furthermore, those emotionaltriggers will change as the
market changes.
I mean, I can remember yearsago, I mean, the internet market
is so corrupt and it's alwaysbeen, marketing services has
always been just extremelycorrupt.
And I remember years ago, one ofour approaches was, they would
(35:19):
come to us and we would tellthem about what we had as far as
certifications and backgroundsand everything.
And I remember one guy told meone time, he's like, I just want
to know if you're going to dothe work or not.
I mean, we would have thisflurry of people who would come
in.
They would have paid a depositto a web designer, one of these
firms, and they would never getany work.
(35:41):
The person just ghosted them.
They went off the radar.
And so they would come to usyears ago saying, we just want
to know if you're actually goingto do anything or not.
And you had to convince themthat basically you were going to
perform basic work, right?
And later it got to where youwanted to show more of your
capabilities and your skill setand your background.
(36:03):
So it evolved over a period oftime.
And now it's kind of somewherein between it because right now
it's like so many people havebeen sold unethically.
And they've been sold throughwhatever means, but they were
told that this internet thing isgoing to produce these fabulous
results.
(36:24):
Or it was perpetuated by thismyth of the internet that
somehow if you spend a fewdollars, it's going to be enough
to grow your company.
A lot of people don't talk aboutthat about 60% of your success
or failure is based on thecreative of your marketing.
But the creative is fueled bythe call to action.
So like some positive ways.
(36:45):
You know, if we're talking aboutmaybe let's go with the greed
element for a minute.
I have seen it where aparticular soap company that I
like to use, they'll often sellyou these introductory kits.
And these introductory kits,they don't have any kind of like
hidden calls behind them as faras I can see.
And that's the Dr.
(37:06):
Squatch soap.
It's an amazing.
I love their marketing.
I think it's really good.
But they'll sell these kits.
And a lot of times they'll sellthem at a discounted rate.
And honestly, I believe it'sbecause they believe in their
product.
There's no tricks, no nothing.
And we got the products and nowmy kids use it and they love the
product.
(37:27):
And so it's a really goodproduct and they use it in an
ethical way.
So it can be used ethically, butit needs to be strategically
used ethically.
And so the idea is to come upwith what makes you different
and better and what can you do?
So because the world is so jadedand most people are so
(37:48):
discerning or questioningeverything because they've been
bombarded with so many marketingtactics and approaches that
they're often distrusting.
And so ethical marketing canalso establish your position in
ways that the unethical guycan't do it.
And sometimes calling out theelephant in the room is a great
(38:10):
approach.
For example, before someone eventells me that they've been jaded
by marketing, I'll talk to themhonestly and openly about some
of the challenges in marketingtoday.
What the reality is.
Like, for example, if you get100 clicks, you're lucky to get
four to six meaningfulconversions in the early phases.
(38:34):
So if you're spending...
you know, a dollar a click, youspend$100, you get four to six
phone calls.
And if you blow those four tosix phone calls, then you're at
zero.
You see, putting something inperspective like that to a jaded
business and addressing it upfront is something that helps a
business understand that that'snot what you're trying to do, is
to manipulate them into sometype of emotional, you know,
(38:59):
grandiosity, that's even a word,to make them think that somehow
you're going to have the nextmagic.
Now, what's great for us when wesell reality and grounded
services is that we don't haveto chase the ghost.
We don't have to chase thismarketing enigma that's just
beyond the horizon and makepeople think that certain things
(39:20):
are going to happen.
If you remember in the firstepisode, we talked about one of
the reasons that we had problemswith a client was because he
believed in these fairy tales.
He kept chasing these fairytales.
And he was so emotionallytriggered that it was really
sad, honestly.
(39:41):
I couldn't imagine.
This guy's blood pressure justmust be through the roof.
So the idea is to use itethically.
The best thing to do is to goget you a piece of paper and sit
down and write your strategicadvantages.
Now, if your strategicadvantages are cost, you're
barking up the wrong tree.
(40:01):
Now, once you write thosestrategic advantages down, you
also want to understand whothose strategic advantages are
for.
We often call this demographics.
Demographics mean who's morelikely to want your products
based upon your strategicadvantages.
So for example, if you take someof the cheaper hamburger joints
(40:24):
that have been around forgenerations and generations,
they prey upon a sense ofnostalgia.
The food may trigger events ofwhen they were kids or maybe
happy moments of when they gotthat kid's meal or something
like that.
While other people have a maturepalate, some people want to
really worry about what they'reputting into their system.
(40:45):
And so they're willing to payfive times as much for that same
size sandwich.
But because it has other valueto it, meaning nutrition, then
they're more prone to go and buythat more expensive burger.
So your marketing approach togroup number one is
significantly different to yourmarketing approach for group
(41:05):
number two.
If you sell expensive,high-quality food, you're not
going to compete with the guywho's selling burgers at a very
low rate and doesn't care aboutthe nutritional value as much.
Now, of course, the personselling the cheap burger is
going to blur the waters bymaking people question whether
or not their burger isnutritious or not.
(41:27):
And that's kind of where thegame comes into play.
People with a learned mind whenit comes to nutrition will see
through it, while those thatdon't, won't.
And that's pretty much true witheverything.
I mean, everything in the worldtoday is all about education,
which may take us to the nextconsideration.
(41:50):
And I want to go back to thepharmaceutical deal for a
second, because it's just such agreat example of this.
Have you ever noticed that a lotof times when people are trying
to sell you something,health-wise, they use people in
white coats?
And the idea is that a lot ofpeople, most people probably, at
(42:10):
least in the Western culture,believe that medical doctors
know everything abouteverything.
And by default, a lot of timespeople wearing white coats will
manipulate you because your mindwill see the white coat and
automatically think that thatperson knows more than they
really do.
So there's a little bit of amanipulative tactic with that.
(42:30):
Now, I know that, like, forexample, in my background, I can
tell you that I was a type 2diabetic and I was also a person
on the fringe of real highcholesterol and high blood
pressure.
And within a very short periodof time, I was able to reverse
that.
And I didn't use what the whitecoach told me to do.
(42:51):
Now, I had the numbers to provethat my strategy worked.
And it was not taking a pill.
Matter of fact, I don't takepills for any of this stuff
right now.
What I did was through prayer,through research, through diet,
through exercise.
Through a lot of thesestrategies, I was able to
completely come off everythingwhile the white coats were
(43:13):
telling me to take the pill andshut up.
Now, if you look at life today,there's a lot of this where it
goes on, where people are tryingto instill trust where they
really shouldn't instill trust.
But ethically, if you have thewhite coat and you know what
you're doing, then you can dothat.
You can use the white coat.
(43:33):
But think about it.
How many times do you watchthese commercials and it's got a
guy wearing a white coat?
If you look really tiny in thebottom corner, it says it's an
actor.
Why is he wearing a white coat?
He's trying to convey a messageto you.
While on the other hand, thereare people that are very
experienced and they have awhite coat on and they kind of
earn the white coat.
(43:54):
And so as you can see, thisethical manipulative thing is
something that your business isgoing to have to navigate.
And this is true of every singlebusiness and every business is
different.
Just because you're anelectrician does not mean you
need to go sign up with acompany that just works with
electricians.
That's a false statement.
(44:15):
They're trying to manipulate youinto that.
The reality is every business isdifferent and every demographic
is different.
We all understand this as ownersof businesses.
There's not a cookie-cuttertemplate.
There's not a cookie-cuttermarketing strategy that would
work for all electricians.
Everybody's value proposition isdifferent.
And it's based on thoseemotional triggers.
(44:38):
So your challenge, as we wrapthings up for today, is what are
those emotional triggers and howare you going to use them?
Is the marketing person you'reworking with, do they have your
same philosophical dispositionabout ethics?
And if so, are they putting yourcompany in a position where the
emotion is felt and it feelsgenuine?
(44:59):
Or are they putting stuff outthere that makes it look like
you're sensationalistic?
Maybe you're garnering long-termdistrust for short-term gain.
Where do you want to positionyourself?
How do you want to position it?
And what are those emotionaltriggers you're willing and able
to put out there that's going tohelp people be motivated to
(45:21):
consider your product orservices?
This is the challenge.
Until next time, this is Overthe Bull.
Thanks so much for listening.
SPEAKER_00 (45:30):
Thanks for tuning in to Over the Bull, brought to you
by Integris Design, afull-service design and
marketing agency out ofAsheville, North Carolina.
Until next time.
You're listening to Over the Bull, where we cut
through marketing noise.
Here's your host, Ken Carroll.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Marketing is all around us, isn't it?
I mean, we are bombarded withmarketing all the time.
I was watching the ballgame theother day, and I was watching
the pharmaceutical commercials.
And, you know, they would talkabout subtly like their
medication helping preventcardiovascular disease or heart
(00:30):
attacks or all these scarythings that drive and motivate
people.
This is an example of anemotional trigger.
And today on Over the Bull,we're going to talk about
emotional triggers.
But there's more to it than justthe triggers themselves.
Now, these triggers have beenaround with man since the
beginning of recorded history.
(00:51):
We're all motivated by thesetriggers.
Now, the question becomes, atwhat point are we crossing some
ethical boundaries when usingthese triggers?
And how do we properly utilizethem?
Now, if you remember in the lastpodcast talking to Brendan about
graphic design, you see thewaters get very muddy very
(01:12):
quick.
You know, it becomes an issue ofhow you do it.
How do you do it optimally?
Well, when it comes to ethicsand emotional triggers, there's
also a similar type issue.
So the question is, is whatemotional triggers do you use?
How does it fit with yourphilosophy in business?
And what do you do to help itgrow your business?
(01:35):
Now, I'm going to give a littlebit of a comment before I talk
about emotional triggers.
Well, because emotional triggerstrigger people emotionally.
And I want to talk about somethings today that may trigger
your emotions.
But it's not meant to create apolitical or a divide of any
kind.
What it's mainly meant to do isto illustrate the potential for
(01:58):
how these things are used inpositive and negative ways.
And so keep in mind that anystatement that I make, they're
particularly designed asexamples and not making a
worldview assessment.
So yes, essentially, emotionaltriggers trigger people
emotionally.
Well, let's get diving right inhere.
(02:19):
All right, the first emotionaltrigger, and one of the most
popular, is fear.
Now, fear is a very, verypowerful driving mechanism in
marketing.
Pharmaceutical companies usefear very well, and they also
use it very subtly.
Like, for example, what they'lldo is tell you that, you know,
(02:41):
basically if you don't taketheir medication, you could die
from this, die from that, havethese kind of complications that
no one wants to have.
And so survival at its core issomething that they're
triggering very subtly but verystrongly.
The other thing that they do isthey typically show events of
(03:02):
where people seem happy.
And they seem like they'reliving a fulfilled, happy life
and doing what they want to,which is also what we want as
human beings.
And so it makes sense thatthey're using this to build both
sides of this.
One, you don't take themedication.
(03:22):
You can die.
You can have kidney disease.
You could lose a limb.
You could whatever.
On the other side, if you takeour medication...
You're going to experience thisfreedom and this happiness,
which is why they show peoplebaking cookies or going for a
walk or going to the park.
There are things that we want todo and want to enjoy, and we can
(03:43):
usually enjoy those better ifwe're in peak physical
condition.
There's also another marketingtactic that's used in the
pharmaceutical commercials, andthat is the side effect.
Now, we think that they'reshowing the side effects because
they have to show the sideeffect.
But there are studies that showthat when they show side
(04:03):
effects, it gives people moreconfidence that it's likely to
fix their ailment because theyhave a little give and take in
the equation.
And so actually that's part ofthe whole marketing strategy
too.
So how does this apply to youand your business?
Should you use fear?
I mean, fear tactics do workvery well.
Or should you not?
(04:25):
Now, these are ethicalquestions.
From a marketing perspective, Wejust simply want to sell
products if we look at itagnostically.
But the idea is the people thatyou hire, the tactics that they
use, the recommendations thatthey make could cross some
ethical boundaries, althoughthey're extremely effective.
Now let's move on to number two.
(04:47):
Number two is greed.
Greed is extremely effective.
What you do is you createspecial offers or exclusive
benefits that that makes someonewant to take advantage of it
because they want to takeadvantage of those deals.
Now, it could be that they'refrugal, which is true, but it's
also playing on the idea thatthey want a little more than
(05:09):
they can normally get.
And so this is something thatcould work, and the ethical
dilemma in greed is, well, it'squestionable.
So, for example, if you're goingto give them something more than
you normally would through aspecial offer or exclusive
event, then essentially you aredoing nothing more than giving
(05:31):
them something for nothing,which in all essence, I don't
see a lot wrong with that.
Although you are feeding theconcept of the person's innate
desire to be greedy.
What I mean by that is, do wewant to fuel that fire within
the individual or not?
So between the two, obviouslyfear is a little more
(05:52):
predator-like in the way that itapproaches things.
Number three on the list isbelonging.
Believe it or not, manycompanies use this in an
extremely negative capacity andsome use it in a very positive
capacity.
Now the problem is, asmarketers, we understand
creating a sense of belonging issomething that people want
(06:16):
innately.
And so if it's used in amalicious way, people could take
a cause.
They could take an event, andthen they try to bring you into
it.
And so this concept of belongingis strong.
And so if you see someone who'strying to appeal to you because
(06:37):
you have certain attributes inyour life, if you love cars, if
you have a certain religiousbelief, if you have a certain
non-religious belief.
Creating that sense of belongingis something that is very strong
and can pull you into donating,giving your time, giving your
(06:57):
money or energy to those causesbecause they're trying to create
that sense.
Now, if it's an honest attemptat really trying to bring
like-minded people together fora good cause, then from a
marketing perspective, that'sextremely ethical.
However, if it's used in a waythat is trying to manipulate
someone, obviously it'sunethical.
(07:20):
A few years ago, there was acommercial and it was for
laundry detergent.
And the laundry detergentadvertisement, it had nothing to
do with laundry.
It had to do with acceptance ofa certain group of people.
And the statement was one thatsounded like, hey, we're part of
this group and being part ofthat group What it made you
(07:43):
think or tried to make youthink, if you didn't have your
marketing lens on, was thatparticular laundry detergent
company was all about trying tocreate quality within a certain
group of people.
Now, this particular laundrydetergent company could also
give money to the cause.
They could also do other thingsthat would help support it.
(08:06):
Now, the question becomes, arethey donating money and are they
creating these commercials?
because they're truly altruisticabout that particular cause?
Or is it because what they'retrying to do is manipulate a
certain group of people andmaybe fringe people around that
particular cause to think thatthis company cares more than
(08:28):
they do and therefore theyshould buy their product?
Now, if it's big corporations,99% of the time you can bank
that they've done somedemographic studies or they have
an agenda.
And they're trying to do it tosell more product by creating
this sense of community.
Now, this is manipulative in itscore.
(08:50):
Now, if it's a differentsituation where people are
trying to go in and buildlike-minded people together,
then, of course, that's a littlebit different because then it's
an honest effort.
And so, as you can see, theproblem with stuff like this...
Let me jump over here for onesecond.
The problem with situations likethis is that people are becoming
(09:15):
less trusting because they seethat they're being manipulated.
Now, a lot of people don'trealize that they kind of just
go under the radar and they hearabout a cause or something that
they're close to and they don'tput two and two together, that
the laundry detergent company isjust trying to sell product.
But the problem is, is when youmix that kind of deceptive way
(09:36):
with an ethical way, theneverything kind of gets put into
one group.
And the ethical use of trying tocreate a sense of community
versus the unethical way to doit, it becomes so blurred that
now this is a little bittrickier to navigate.
And it requires more credibilityfactor to show that you're not
(09:57):
trying just to manipulatepeople.
And so as you can see, althoughit's strong and powerful, if
it's used in a way that'sdishonest, then it'll have a
very limited life to begin with.
Like, for example, if you lookat the detergent commercial, you
can tell it was a campaign thatthey were doing to see how well
it would affect sales because itquickly died.
(10:19):
You didn't hear about thecompany talking about this
particular cause months later oryears later.
It was a very specific run.
Now, other companies whoabsolutely, and organizations,
non-profits, who do have anallegiance to a cause or
community or group oflike-minded people, often
there's a longer track record ofthem doing this.
(10:41):
And so just a quick tip fromOver the Bull, if you see those
kind of commercials but youdon't see them sticking to it,
you're being manipulated intothinking you're part of
something that they're reallynot a part of.
The next one up is trust.
Trust is a very honorable term.
emotional trigger, especiallywhen you're using it, well,
(11:04):
truthfully.
So the thing is, is that how canyou build trust within a group
of people?
Number one is how long you'vebeen in business.
Number two would be yourpartnerships or different things
that you're associated with thathelps build your credibility and
trust.
For example, at Integris Design,we spend a lot of our time,
(11:24):
effort, and energy to keep ourpartnerships.
Because we think that if we havepartnerships and we're certified
with those partnerships, thenthat's going to build a sense of
trust.
Now, we don't do that just to doit because our skill set doesn't
change, but it's something thatwe're doing to help instill
trust.
And so in your case, what youcould do is go through and
(11:46):
create those partnerships orcreate that credibility standard
or also let people know aboutthe credibility that you already
have to help build that trust.
For example...
If you've been in business fortwo decades and you don't tell
anybody about it, then theydon't know that, and they're not
going to look for those things.
And that could actually be afairly strong call to action in
certain markets, your longevity.
(12:07):
The other thing is maybe doingbackground checks.
Things like that could also beways in which you could build
trust.
Now, of course, trust can bemanipulated as well.
Now, used unethically, trust canstill work.
For example, if a brand slapstrusted by 10,000 customers on a
landing page with no data, itcould manipulate people into
(12:30):
making a purchase.
Say an ad promotes a free trial,but users are locked into
subscriptions and hidden fees.
Well, this is also a way tomanipulate trust.
People see free trial, but thenthey're manipulated on the back
end.
And so another one would beagencies who have said that
they've been able to get rankingon the top page of Google within
(12:54):
24 hours.
So these things sell.
And honestly, there becomes anethical boundary on a lot of
these as well because from amarketing perspective, we want
to sell product.
And so to put something on awebsite that's disingenuous is
very tempted by marketingcompanies because marketing
(13:14):
companies, they want to be ableto send more business to people.
And at the end of the day, ifthey're not guided by a
conscience, then they're goingto use deceptive practices in
order to increase self.
So from a business standpoint,again, you're at this emotional
crossroads where you go, is itworth it?
Should I do that?
Should I sell my business soulin order to sell more product or
(13:38):
should I be more ethical?
Oh, and the next one's up.
It's one of the seven deadlysins also, right?
It's envy.
Of course, we want to be able topush envy in marketing.
And so envy is a very trickyone.
So you can imagine right out ofthe gate, this is a very
questionable ethical approach,especially with some
(13:59):
philosophical background.
But the idea is to make peoplefeel envious of what other
people have.
Now, tech companies eat,breathe, and sleep off envy.
You know, just imagine thosecommercials where they imply,
look at what they have.
Don't you want to be like them?
Don't you want to be one of thecool kids in the room?
(14:20):
You know, we're all conditionedthis from very young to want to
have the best things.
We see designer clothes,designer whatever.
We see the best tech or the bestbackpacks or whatever.
And then we see peopleassociated with them and we go,
wow, I want to be like that.
I want to have that.
And so luxury brands or fitnessapps or products, you know,
you'll get this great body in 90days.
(14:43):
Or you may see a social mediagrowth tool.
You know, your competitor gained10K followers.
Look at what they did to dothat.
You see, it's appealing to thisenvy of what other people have
that you want to have.
And so the idea is, do you wantto play upon that?
Do you want to use that to youradvantage?
And if so, how do we use thatwhere it's an ethical practice
(15:07):
versus something that's notethical or trying to pull those
triggers for people?
And if you want to know classicexamples of how this is being
used in the world today, youreally need to look no further
than marketing.
I mean, people, because they'reso deluded into thinking that
the internet is like this magicway that you can spin gold out
(15:28):
of nothing, that oftentimes whenthey get approached by email or
a phone call or a certain salespitch, they will use the idea of
how effective it is for otherbusinesses like them.
And they don't have any gold.
The emperor has no clothes.
Real marketing takes work, time,effort, trial, error, all those
(15:49):
things that don't sell very wellin a sales pitch.
But that's the reality of it.
What they're doing is usingthese stories, these things
where they're trying to push youinto a product by making you
envious of what other peoplehave.
So how many times have youbought into one of these deals
where they've told you thatthey're going to be able to
produce something, string youalong for, 90 days, 120 days,
(16:13):
something like that before yourealize it.
What's really funny is a lot ofthese companies even realize how
long you'll be with them onceyou sign up.
And their goal is to just keepyou for as long as they can do
it and then rinse, lather, andrepeat.
They pay no attention to thewake of people that are left
behind, the businesses that aredisillusioned, the businesses
(16:33):
that fail because of whatthey've done.
But they don't care.
They're trying to just sell aproduct through making you
envious.
and having that sense ofscarcity to push you into
something.
So for your own business, whatdo you do?
Do you try to push on envy?
Do you try to use that as atactic, or do you not?
Is there even an ethical way touse envy as an approach to sell
(16:55):
something to someone?
Or do we take the big techroute, and do we show other
people who are dancing in thestreets, listening to music, or
taking those pictures, or doingthose things that make you feel
like you're special?
Now, here's the weird thingabout this.
This has actually been aroundway before the tech company.
(17:17):
The automotive industry reallyused this historically.
What they would do is they wouldprey upon people who were maybe
going through a midlife crisis.
So they would show the guydriving around the car with the
young girl in the passenger sideof the vehicle.
And then he wasn't reallyassociating the vehicle with...
having a nice vehicle, per se.
What he's doing is associatingwith a lifestyle, like an
(17:40):
expectation.
It's preying upon his desire tohave a certain thing, maybe
recapture that little bit ofyouth that he wants to
recapture.
You know, preying uponimmaturity versus the next
chapter in his life.
And so by doing that, they'reable to sell cars.
Well, that's why you buy thelatest and greatest mobile
(18:00):
phone.
You're doing it because...
They're telling you to do itbecause they want you to think
that if you don't have it,you're not going to have the
greatest widgets in the worldand you're not going to be one
of the cool kids.
You're going to pull your phoneup in a public place and people
are going to laugh at youbecause it's so old.
I can tell you I run severalgenerations back on my phone.
I don't care.
(18:20):
It doesn't matter.
It's not a status thing for me.
But you can see from a businessstandpoint how you could use
something like this to furtheryour business.
Oh, and then we have guilt.
Guilt is a very powerfulmotivator in marketing.
And yes, it can be used inethical ways, and it can be used
(18:41):
in unethical ways.
So let's explore maybe a fewexamples of how guilt is used in
marketing today.
For just a dollar a day, you cansave a child's life.
Wow, who wouldn't want to save akid's life for a dollar a day?
Seems like something everyonewould want to do.
(19:02):
Fitness and health products.
You've let yourself go.
Isn't it time you start caringabout your health?
You see, this is a guilt tacticto prey upon your knowing that
you're probably not eating orworking out or doing things that
you need to do.
And so fitness apps or otherkind of things, they'll use this
little sense of guilt in orderto trigger you.
(19:25):
How about this one?
Every plastic bottle you throwaway hurts the planet.
Boy, don't that make you feelguilty.
You see, so someone who has ahypersensitive tendency toward
guilt can be easily manipulatedusing some of these practices.
And oftentimes, it does work.
(19:46):
Now, the question is, is it usedethically or is it used
unethically?
Because sometimes people, it's agood motivator, you know, if
it's legitimate.
But if we're using it to justfurther our motivations and not
really the guilt, orientedtarget, then I think we've got
(20:06):
some issues there.
So here's one that'll, let'stalk about emotional triggers.
Let's see where you fall on thisone.
Let's take COVID.
You know, when it came out, youknow, they would tell you to
wear a mask because you want toprotect your grandma, right?
You want to protect yourneighbor.
You want to be the good guy.
And by wearing a mask, you'reone of the good guys.
(20:29):
Now, I'm not making a judgmentcall.
I'm just trying to get youremotion up.
And as you can see, you probablyfelt a visceral response, maybe
one way or another, toward theidea of wearing masks to protect
other people and to try to guiltyou in to wearing those masks.
So where you fall on thespectrum with that particular
call to action really depends ona lot of factors unrelated to
(20:52):
masks.
It relates to where you are, whoyou trust, who you believe.
Do you think that that's true?
Not true.
And the other thing that usuallyties in with guilt is recurring,
which actually recurringmarketing, remarketing, or
retargeting, depends on thecontext of it, is very powerful
with a lot of these tools.
(21:14):
You know, for example, in theNazi Party, the National
Socialist Party of World War II,one of the things that was
quoted is, if you tell a lie bigenough, and keep repeating it,
people will eventually come tobelieve it.
So the idea is to keeppressuring people with guilt,
make them feel bad, make themfeel that they're destroying the
(21:34):
planet, make them feel certainthings, make them feel that
they're being a little bitselfish by not putting on that
mask.
Those are things that areactually tactics.
Now, again, we have the ethical,unethical dilemma, right?
Was it ethical?
Was it not ethical?
Was it truthful?
Was it Maybe a manipulativetactic, but the good for the
people.
Well, that's for the individualsto decide based upon the actual
(21:59):
data that's out there.
And the next emotional triggerup to bat is pride.
So pride is very powerful aswell.
You know, if you look at somecredit card companies, you may
see a slogan that says, you'veearned this.
You belong here.
You see, we're trying to pullout that sense that somebody's
earned something.
And because they've earned it,now they're ready for our
(22:20):
product.
Or maybe you take some of thetech products.
Think different.
Think better.
Be better.
Be better than that lastgeneration.
You know, think our way.
Be our way.
And this makes people have asense of pride that somehow
they're more superior thanprevious generations or previous
(22:41):
groups because they think acertain way.
They have a different definitionof open-mindedness.
And so this also triggerspeople.
Extremely effective.
Extremely effective inmarketing.
Electric vehicles.
You've worked hard.
You deserve more than theaverage person.
Now, they're not going to say itexactly like that, but that's
essentially what they're saying.
(23:02):
They're preying on your pride,your ability to buy something,
your ability to stand out amongthe group.
You know, as I'm reading this,it's like I'm almost reading the
deadly sin.
You know, it's like, golly, man,it gets bad pretty quick.
And that's why a lot of peopledon't like marketing.
You know, just a quick side notebefore we continue.
People don't like it because itfeels manipulative and
(23:25):
disingenuous.
And for us, what we try to do iswe try to do it in the most
ethical way possible, wherewe're not pulling upon those
triggers.
And it's a challenge in today'sworld, because in a world where
everybody promises everything,it's making people more
skeptical.
And even the honest ethicalapproach to using some of these
tactics is not working aseffectively as it should.
(23:48):
It's almost like the further weget in this big experiment of
being bombarded with all theseapproaches, that people are so
desensitized that you've got toup the game.
You've got to make it moresensationalistic.
And there's always somethingelse to kind of push that.
For example, today, artificialintelligence.
People look at artificialintelligence and they think,
(24:09):
wow, that's really somethingthat's going to propel me to the
next level.
I've got to use AI.
Because, of course, it's smarterthan a sentient human.
I mean, you get all thispropaganda about...
what it does and how it thinksand all these things.
But here's the thing.
It's a really good tool, butit's a good tool within the
context of sentiency.
(24:31):
And it's also a good tool ifit's not skewed toward a certain
worldview, which some of the AItools, really, they're just
there to propel certain agendas,especially when you talk to them
and you see what they come upwith.
You can tell that it's notreally an unbiased set of data.
It's more of a way to try tomanipulate you into thinking a
(24:51):
certain worldview.
And so you got to be carefulwith how you use these things in
your business because, well, itdepends.
Are you going to be theunethical guy who pushes it just
to sell more product?
Are you going to be the ethicalcompany?
Now, what's great about usingemotional triggers in an
unethical way is they can alsobite the people who are using
(25:16):
them unethically.
Of course, they're going to geta bad reputation, but they can
go for years and years on that.
There are marketing companieswho offer sensationalism and
they're still functioning today,being just as unethical today as
they were.
I mean, I remember several yearsago, probably about eight or
nine years ago now, there's avery large company that
(25:38):
specializes in local marketingoptimization.
You know, your Google businessprofile and stuff like that.
And They came to us as an agencyand said, hey, we can do all
this for you and optimize thoselistings, blah, blah, blah, do
all that stuff, you know.
And so we tested it for sixmonths.
(25:58):
And what we found out was thatit didn't work at all.
I mean, it was insane how badthis tool worked.
And this tool is still aroundtoday.
And it's used by a lot ofagencies because they can resell
it and market up significantly.
So they actually hide it behindthe scenes.
Now, even though the averagebusiness owner may not know
(26:18):
this, especially new businesses,and they may not know that
agencies are using it, they'rebecoming aware that the results
are not what is touted to be.
And so it is creating anundercurrent of distrust,
especially among reputableagencies.
Now, of course, there areunethical agencies that will
still push the product becauseit makes them money.
(26:39):
And now let's get back to thelast major emotional trigger.
And that is altruism.
Now, of course, altruism is abelief and a practice of
disinterest or selfless concernfor the well-being of others.
I'm reading the definition ofit.
And so if you look at examplesof altruism, you may have
(27:00):
something like this.
For every pair of shoes you buy,we give a pair to a child in
need.
That's pretty altruistic.
You're not just buying aproduct.
You're supporting a cause.
See altruism.
We feel like we're doingsomething.
Share this message to raiseawareness.
How many times have you gottenthose social media posts and
(27:24):
they say share this with 10people and to bring awareness to
a certain subject?
And man, that still works, Ithink, today.
But it's silly.
It's just a way to gain momentumin social media.
It has nothing to do andoftentimes with the actual cause
itself.
You know, of course, it could beused ethically.
But a lot of companies use thesetactics in order just to
(27:45):
increase their outreach and,again, kind of bring certain
people together who believethey're doing certain things.
So, as you can see, there's alot of emotional triggers and a
lot of polarization in terms ofethics.
And also, the amount that youmanipulate people can make or
break your company, too.
(28:06):
You see?
And depending upon the...
the disposition of the personthat owns a business, they may
use this more or less.
Some people will say, I don'tcare.
I just want to sell moreproduct.
I don't care what the differenceis.
I don't care if it's ethical orunethical.
We'll deal with that down theroad.
And they somehow segment theirpersonal ethics with their
(28:27):
business ethics, which Istruggle with.
I have a hard time breakingthose things up.
So you have to make somedecisions.
Now, here's the weird thing.
If you notice that a lot oftimes when you're given these
examples, they overlap, likealtruism or a sense of
community.
You know, they seem like theyuse these in conjunction with
(28:50):
each other.
Now, it could be unintentionaland it could be intentional.
So let me give you an idea.
If you meet somebody new, it'scommonly known that if you take
that person through a series ofemotions in a short period of
time, you can manipulate thatperson.
into believing that they knowyou better than they do.
(29:11):
For example, if you make someonefeel sad or happy or relate to
their situation in the past andgive them a sense of empathy,
you can actually manipulate thatperson into trusting you and
feeling that they have a senseof knowing you for a lot longer
than they have.
It's like that sense of trust.
(29:31):
And it's an extremelymanipulative tactic that is used
today.
And so the idea is that to bringpeople through a range of
emotions makes them feel likethey know you, they trust you.
So as you can see, marketing isvery, very manipulative.
So let's go in and explore oneof the classic old examples real
(29:54):
quick.
As I mentioned in previouspodcasts, one of the founders of
modern day marketing, his namewas Edward Bernays.
Now, Edward Bernays was thenephew of Sigmund Freud.
And years and years ago, one ofthe things he was challenged
with by the cigarette companieswas to increase smoking in
(30:16):
women.
So they wanted to expand peoplewho are smoking from men to
women.
And they were trying to come upwith a way to encourage that.
So they hired Edward Bernays.
And Edward Bernays went back andhe came up with a concept called
Torches of Freedom.
And so what he did was he goes,look, these are not cigarettes.
(30:39):
These are torches of equality.
And when a woman smokes acigarette, she's saying that she
wants to be equal.
And so what happened wascigarettes, they just started to
increase in sales.
He strategically placed women incertain places that looked and
act a certain way.
And cigarette sales went throughthe roof.
(31:00):
It was a success.
But you see, it wasn't aboutcigarettes.
It was a manipulative tactic tomake people think, women
specifically, that if theysmoked, somehow they were
standing up for their rights bysmoking.
Didn't worry about theirphysical health or anything like
that.
So you see, it was an extremely,arguably unethical way to market
(31:23):
cigarettes to a group that wassusceptible to a cause and not
to smoking in itself.
So for you to think about yourbusiness and what you're going
to do, you're going to have tomake some of these decisions.
And these decisions aren'talways the most fun of
decisions.
Now, we prefer to work withcompanies that are more ethical.
(31:46):
We want to work with people thatreally have a strategic
advantage in the market and wantto push their strategic
advantage.
Now, the thing about emotion,the thing about these emotional
triggers is is they do have tobe used.
They do have to be harnessed,you know, like a gun or a knife
or whatever.
(32:06):
Wield it in the right way, it'sa great tool.
Wield it in the wrong way, it'sa horrible tool.
You know, it can cause damage.
It can cause ripples forgenerations and generations
trying to recover from thedamages that some of these
things cause.
Well, if used in the right way,it could save lives.
You see...
These type of tools that areused in marketing are the exact
(32:29):
same way.
Do you care if you're causingdamage to other people?
Or do you just want to sellproduct?
See, these are very, very toughdecisions.
But why it has to be crossed isin marketing, we know that if
you don't distinguish yourselffrom your competitors, it will
default to price.
(32:49):
And if things default to price,the guy selling it the cheapest
is going to win.
But it's not that easy becausesome people will sell something
and go out of business basicallydoing it.
Or they're trying to use it morein terms of a lead loss, meaning
gain market share.
So they may have some bigfunding and they can be negative
(33:10):
for a long period of time.
If you go back to some ofMicrosoft when they were trying
to break into the video gameindustry, they would run
negatively for some time becausethey were trying to take market
share from more popular gamingsystems at the time.
They could do it because theycould afford to do it.
Now, most of you probably can'tdo that.
(33:32):
Most of you probably don't havethis massive lead loss program
where you're trying to gainmarket share.
Some of you may, some of you maynot.
The strategies are a lotdifferent if you're going to do
that.
But the idea is you have to cometo terms with who you are as a
business.
Are you going to operateethically or unethically?
And if so, what are thoseethical approaches?
(33:52):
What are those ethical triggersthat you can pull that you
believe in?
You know, if it's something thatinvolves community, can you
support the idea that you reallybelieve in that community and
that you've been involved inthat community for some time?
Or are you going to be thedetergent company that tries to
use it in a manipulative way totry to gain a little bit of
(34:12):
market share, dip your toes init to see if it works?
And if it does, then continue todo it.
When you look at your website,If you look at anything, you've
got to create a call to action,some reason to motivate someone
in order to get them to engagewith your company.
And creating that ethical,unethical boundary is tricky.
(34:33):
But we all know sign up for ournewsletter does not work for
email marketing.
We all know that not pushingpeople in certain ways to feel
emotion is not going to work foryou.
you're going to need to drawfrom emotion.
And those emotional triggers aregoing to be the difference
between someone engaging withyour company and not engaging
(34:56):
with your company.
Furthermore, those emotionaltriggers will change as the
market changes.
I mean, I can remember yearsago, I mean, the internet market
is so corrupt and it's alwaysbeen, marketing services has
always been just extremelycorrupt.
And I remember years ago, one ofour approaches was, they would
(35:19):
come to us and we would tellthem about what we had as far as
certifications and backgroundsand everything.
And I remember one guy told meone time, he's like, I just want
to know if you're going to dothe work or not.
I mean, we would have thisflurry of people who would come
in.
They would have paid a depositto a web designer, one of these
firms, and they would never getany work.
(35:41):
The person just ghosted them.
They went off the radar.
And so they would come to usyears ago saying, we just want
to know if you're actually goingto do anything or not.
And you had to convince themthat basically you were going to
perform basic work, right?
And later it got to where youwanted to show more of your
capabilities and your skill setand your background.
(36:03):
So it evolved over a period oftime.
And now it's kind of somewherein between it because right now
it's like so many people havebeen sold unethically.
And they've been sold throughwhatever means, but they were
told that this internet thing isgoing to produce these fabulous
results.
(36:24):
Or it was perpetuated by thismyth of the internet that
somehow if you spend a fewdollars, it's going to be enough
to grow your company.
A lot of people don't talk aboutthat about 60% of your success
or failure is based on thecreative of your marketing.
But the creative is fueled bythe call to action.
So like some positive ways.
(36:45):
You know, if we're talking aboutmaybe let's go with the greed
element for a minute.
I have seen it where aparticular soap company that I
like to use, they'll often sellyou these introductory kits.
And these introductory kits,they don't have any kind of like
hidden calls behind them as faras I can see.
And that's the Dr.
(37:06):
Squatch soap.
It's an amazing.
I love their marketing.
I think it's really good.
But they'll sell these kits.
And a lot of times they'll sellthem at a discounted rate.
And honestly, I believe it'sbecause they believe in their
product.
There's no tricks, no nothing.
And we got the products and nowmy kids use it and they love the
product.
(37:27):
And so it's a really goodproduct and they use it in an
ethical way.
So it can be used ethically, butit needs to be strategically
used ethically.
And so the idea is to come upwith what makes you different
and better and what can you do?
So because the world is so jadedand most people are so
(37:48):
discerning or questioningeverything because they've been
bombarded with so many marketingtactics and approaches that
they're often distrusting.
And so ethical marketing canalso establish your position in
ways that the unethical guycan't do it.
And sometimes calling out theelephant in the room is a great
(38:10):
approach.
For example, before someone eventells me that they've been jaded
by marketing, I'll talk to themhonestly and openly about some
of the challenges in marketingtoday.
What the reality is.
Like, for example, if you get100 clicks, you're lucky to get
four to six meaningfulconversions in the early phases.
(38:34):
So if you're spending...
you know, a dollar a click, youspend$100, you get four to six
phone calls.
And if you blow those four tosix phone calls, then you're at
zero.
You see, putting something inperspective like that to a jaded
business and addressing it upfront is something that helps a
business understand that that'snot what you're trying to do, is
to manipulate them into sometype of emotional, you know,
(38:59):
grandiosity, that's even a word,to make them think that somehow
you're going to have the nextmagic.
Now, what's great for us when wesell reality and grounded
services is that we don't haveto chase the ghost.
We don't have to chase thismarketing enigma that's just
beyond the horizon and makepeople think that certain things
(39:20):
are going to happen.
If you remember in the firstepisode, we talked about one of
the reasons that we had problemswith a client was because he
believed in these fairy tales.
He kept chasing these fairytales.
And he was so emotionallytriggered that it was really
sad, honestly.
(39:41):
I couldn't imagine.
This guy's blood pressure justmust be through the roof.
So the idea is to use itethically.
The best thing to do is to goget you a piece of paper and sit
down and write your strategicadvantages.
Now, if your strategicadvantages are cost, you're
barking up the wrong tree.
(40:01):
Now, once you write thosestrategic advantages down, you
also want to understand whothose strategic advantages are
for.
We often call this demographics.
Demographics mean who's morelikely to want your products
based upon your strategicadvantages.
So for example, if you take someof the cheaper hamburger joints
(40:24):
that have been around forgenerations and generations,
they prey upon a sense ofnostalgia.
The food may trigger events ofwhen they were kids or maybe
happy moments of when they gotthat kid's meal or something
like that.
While other people have a maturepalate, some people want to
really worry about what they'reputting into their system.
(40:45):
And so they're willing to payfive times as much for that same
size sandwich.
But because it has other valueto it, meaning nutrition, then
they're more prone to go and buythat more expensive burger.
So your marketing approach togroup number one is
significantly different to yourmarketing approach for group
(41:05):
number two.
If you sell expensive,high-quality food, you're not
going to compete with the guywho's selling burgers at a very
low rate and doesn't care aboutthe nutritional value as much.
Now, of course, the personselling the cheap burger is
going to blur the waters bymaking people question whether
or not their burger isnutritious or not.
(41:27):
And that's kind of where thegame comes into play.
People with a learned mind whenit comes to nutrition will see
through it, while those thatdon't, won't.
And that's pretty much true witheverything.
I mean, everything in the worldtoday is all about education,
which may take us to the nextconsideration.
(41:50):
And I want to go back to thepharmaceutical deal for a
second, because it's just such agreat example of this.
Have you ever noticed that a lotof times when people are trying
to sell you something,health-wise, they use people in
white coats?
And the idea is that a lot ofpeople, most people probably, at
(42:10):
least in the Western culture,believe that medical doctors
know everything abouteverything.
And by default, a lot of timespeople wearing white coats will
manipulate you because your mindwill see the white coat and
automatically think that thatperson knows more than they
really do.
So there's a little bit of amanipulative tactic with that.
(42:30):
Now, I know that, like, forexample, in my background, I can
tell you that I was a type 2diabetic and I was also a person
on the fringe of real highcholesterol and high blood
pressure.
And within a very short periodof time, I was able to reverse
that.
And I didn't use what the whitecoach told me to do.
(42:51):
Now, I had the numbers to provethat my strategy worked.
And it was not taking a pill.
Matter of fact, I don't takepills for any of this stuff
right now.
What I did was through prayer,through research, through diet,
through exercise.
Through a lot of thesestrategies, I was able to
completely come off everythingwhile the white coats were
(43:13):
telling me to take the pill andshut up.
Now, if you look at life today,there's a lot of this where it
goes on, where people are tryingto instill trust where they
really shouldn't instill trust.
But ethically, if you have thewhite coat and you know what
you're doing, then you can dothat.
You can use the white coat.
(43:33):
But think about it.
How many times do you watchthese commercials and it's got a
guy wearing a white coat?
If you look really tiny in thebottom corner, it says it's an
actor.
Why is he wearing a white coat?
He's trying to convey a messageto you.
While on the other hand, thereare people that are very
experienced and they have awhite coat on and they kind of
earn the white coat.
(43:54):
And so as you can see, thisethical manipulative thing is
something that your business isgoing to have to navigate.
And this is true of every singlebusiness and every business is
different.
Just because you're anelectrician does not mean you
need to go sign up with acompany that just works with
electricians.
That's a false statement.
(44:15):
They're trying to manipulate youinto that.
The reality is every business isdifferent and every demographic
is different.
We all understand this as ownersof businesses.
There's not a cookie-cuttertemplate.
There's not a cookie-cuttermarketing strategy that would
work for all electricians.
Everybody's value proposition isdifferent.
And it's based on thoseemotional triggers.
(44:38):
So your challenge, as we wrapthings up for today, is what are
those emotional triggers and howare you going to use them?
Is the marketing person you'reworking with, do they have your
same philosophical dispositionabout ethics?
And if so, are they putting yourcompany in a position where the
emotion is felt and it feelsgenuine?
(44:59):
Or are they putting stuff outthere that makes it look like
you're sensationalistic?
Maybe you're garnering long-termdistrust for short-term gain.
Where do you want to positionyourself?
How do you want to position it?
And what are those emotionaltriggers you're willing and able
to put out there that's going tohelp people be motivated to
(45:21):
consider your product orservices?
This is the challenge.
Until next time, this is Overthe Bull.
Thanks so much for listening.
SPEAKER_00 (45:30):
Thanks for tuning in to Over the Bull, brought to you
by Integris Design, afull-service design and
marketing agency out ofAsheville, North Carolina.
Until next time.
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