October 14, 2025 • 26 mins
Ever wondered why your health habits never seem to stick despite your best intentions? This eye-opening conversation with best-selling author and health coach Esther Avant reveals the surprising parallels between building a successful business and creating sustainable health practices.
Drawing from her 19 years coaching thousands of women, Esther introduces the powerful concept of "big rock habits" - foundational health practices that create significant impact without overwhelming your already busy life. You'll discover why trying to overhaul everything at once nearly always fails, and how focusing on just one habit at a time creates lasting transformation.
The neuroscience behind habit formation takes center stage as we explore why your brain naturally resists change. Through vivid analogies of forging paths through untrodden grass and escaping deeply-rutted dirt roads, you'll gain a new understanding of why habit change feels so challenging - and how to work with your brain rather than against it. This insight alone will transform how you approach any new habit, whether in health or business.
Particularly valuable is Esther's three-part framework for successful change: reduce overwhelm by starting small, seek appropriate support, and practice "compassionate ownership" - the delicate balance between self-compassion and personal responsibility. The discussion also highlights often-overlooked nutritional elements that could literally save your life, as both hosts share personal connections to preventable health conditions.
Whether you're a busy entrepreneur struggling to maintain energy levels, a working parent trying to juggle it all, or simply someone who wants to feel better in your body, this conversation offers practical, science-backed strategies that honor your humanity while helping you create the changes you desire.
Ready to transform your relationship with health habits? Download Esther's free guide "21 Time-Saving Health Facts" at madebymecoaching.com/time and follow her @EstherAvant on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
hello and welcome back to the next episode of
overcome yourself, the podcast.
As you know, my name is nicoleand I'm so excited to be here
today with esther.
Now, esther is very exciting abest-selling author, so I can't
wait to hear about how she didthat, um.
But she also talks about health, and you guys know that in my
book, my success habits includesome like really basic things
(00:27):
that aren't necessarilymoney-making things, and like
drinking water and, like youknow, like paying attention to
what you eat.
Those are all really importantthings that we need to pay
attention to as we grow oursuccess, and so I'm very excited
to have Esther here to talk tous a little bit more about what
it can mean to be healthy aswe're on our way to building our
businesses.
So please, esther, take it away.
(00:49):
Tell us a little bit about whoyou are and who you help.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Thank you so much for the introduction.
I am, like you said, an author,a podcaster, a speaker, but
first and foremost, a coach.
I've worked for the last 19years in women's health and
weight loss coaching and haveworked with thousands of women
in that time who want to bettertheir health, and what I've seen
(01:14):
is that we all have pretty muchthe same barriers standing in
our way, and the ways that wecan teach ourselves to overcome
them are also applicable tobuilding our businesses, our
personal lives every otheraspect of our lives benefits
when we take better care ofourselves.
(01:36):
So most of my clients areworking moms, whether it's for
their own businesses or for acorporation.
You know the woman who's likekind of trying to do it all and
often I'm sure you can relate tothis often feel like you're not
doing any of the things wellenough, and that's one of the
things that I've seen is that wetend to put so much pressure on
(01:57):
ourselves and expect so much ofourselves that we're almost
setting ourselves up for failure.
So a lot of the work that I doyes, I focus on, you know,
exercise and nutrition and the,the the tactical kind of what to
do stuff.
But really what makes thebiggest difference is the
beneath the surface stuff, themental work and understanding.
Why is it that you know I couldask you right now what are,
(02:19):
what are healthy habits?
And you can give me a laundrylist of you know, I know what to
do.
Why is it that it's so hard toactually do it and do it long
enough and well enough that yousee the results?
So that's really kind of whereI, where I dive in as like the
human behavior kind of piece ofit.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh, I love that.
That is that's so important,that's so powerful.
So tell me more like, like yousaid, you know a lot of my
habits drinking water every day.
That's one of my base ones.
Like you got to drink water,you got to get your 10,000 steps
or whatever number that is foryou.
So can you tell me a few morelike you know?
Like of the habits and how dowe implement these healthy
(02:56):
habits as these busyprofessionals who run houses,
who run businesses, who runfamilies, like there's a lot
going on.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, so you nailed something that I refer to as the
big rock habits.
That part of why it's hard toreally change our health is
because we overwhelm ourselves,trying to do way too much, and a
lot of that stuff doesn'tmatter very much.
Yeah, exactly, we can allrelate to that where you just be
like okay, I'm turning over anew leaf and starting tomorrow,
I'm doing all these things andit doesn't end up sticking.
So you're so much better offidentifying those big rock
habits and really honing in onthose.
(03:33):
Daily movement in the form of astep goal is a huge one Making
sure that you're hydrated, yourstrength training, getting in
your protein, getting in yourfiber, making sure that you're
sleeping, you know kind of these, these big things.
That it's not revolutionary.
You've heard it all before, butit's one of those like yeah,
yeah, I know that.
Like, what's the real secret?
It's like, well, that is thesecret.
Doing those things consistentlyis the secret.
(03:55):
So let's figure out how to dothat.
And that's generally where thestruggle is is, if I give you a
list of six habits to focus on,you're going to try to do all of
those things perfectly,starting immediately, and what
ends up happening is that whenit's something new, we're not
necessarily great at it at first, so that feels uncomfortable
(04:17):
and we are prone to giving up.
Or we've tried to change somuch at once on top of our
businesses and our families thatit just it feels like one thing
too many and we start kind ofdropping all the balls that
we're juggling.
So the key to actuallysuccessfully implementing these
things is to start with less andgive yourself the gift of the
(04:39):
time that it takes to reallyestablish a habit.
The same thing applies to ourbusinesses.
If you're starting out andyou're like all right, I need to
grow my TikTok and I need to beon Instagram and I should start
a YouTube channel and maybe apodcast and I need to build my
email list and I need a freebie,all of a sudden you're so
overwhelmed and because you'retrying to do so many things,
you're not doing any of themparticularly well and you're so
(05:01):
much better off.
Any business coach will tellyou, pick one and really devote
yourself to that, and once maybethat's up and running and you
feel successful with it and youkind of have it on autopilot,
then add on another thing.
So the same thing applies toour health.
Go for some low-hanging fruitfirst.
So you mentioned water.
I've got some right here.
That's a great one.
(05:21):
To just say, my primary focusright now is to get myself up to
you know eight glasses a day,or whatever your goal may be,
and you don't put any pressureon yourself to do more than that
.
And then, once you're doingthat regularly, it's like all
right, I'm drinking the water, Idon't need to give it a whole
lot of energy.
What's the next thing that Ican add on?
Can I start taking, you know,two 10 minute breaks during my
(05:43):
workday where I take a walk?
And now I'm going to startworking, working on my steps?
And if you give yourself theopportunity to take, you know,
say, six months to establishsome of these foundational
habits, you're going to be somuch better off than if you try
to do them all at once and kindof fall on your face after,
after the first month.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I love that and I talk about that in my book,
about how, you know, I dive alittle bit into how do habits
brain, brain, how do habits workin our brain, and we talk about
how we have these little pathsin our brain and when we do
something, all the time thelittle neurons are going to take
(06:22):
that path.
It's going to be very easy.
And I allude to, like, ifyou're walking through a grassy
area and you see a path thatsomeone has already walked
through, well, it's really easyto follow that path because it's
already there.
And when we're establishing newhabits, what we're doing is
we're walking through the grass,there's no path.
We're just we're going becausewe got to make a path.
(06:44):
Right through the grass,there's no path.
We're just we're going becausewe got to make a path right.
And so it makes sense that ifyou're trying to walk down six
different paths at the same time, none of them are going to get
built right.
I think that's really, reallypowerful.
And I just want to mention yousaid to get to eight glasses of
water a day.
Start with one.
(07:04):
I just want to mention you saidto get to eight glasses of
water a day, start with one.
You don't have to drink eightglasses, chugging them all at
once.
Start with one glass of water.
Like, where can you for me itget your coffee?
Well, what happens right afteryou're done drinking coffee?
(07:25):
Like, is it just a plethora ofoptions?
No, like I'm done with mycoffee.
Or, better yet, alongside mycoffee, I've got my bottle of
water.
I've got my cup of water.
It looks like.
It looks like a, like a youknow, it's a turvish right or
(07:47):
like one of my metal cups, butit has a straw, because I, you
know, when I used to drink a lotof soda, I used to love
drinking out of the straw.
So I was like, let me imitatethat so that I can incorporate
it in my water.
And so now I drink water everyday without having to think
about it, because when I getcoffee I get water, or right
after my coffee, I get my water.
And so there's no thought.
And so now that path has becomeone of those little grassy
paths that's easy to walk down,right?
So can you tell me a little bitabout that?
(08:08):
Can we talk a little bit aboutthe actual psychology of the
habits and how we can have somegrace on ourselves, because we
are going to fall and you knowthat's part of the magic of the
journey is getting back up anddoing it again so we can build
that path.
So can you talk to me a littlebit about?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
that.
Yeah, I love the analogy youmade and I use a very similar
one of kind of grooving a like arut.
And I grew up in Maine.
We used to have the spring falland I had this long dirt
driveway and it was like wewould end up with these really
deep ruts in the road and whenyour tires are in them it feels
damn near impossible to getyourself out, and that's what it
(08:50):
can feel like to start.
A new habit is, if you thinkabout the repetition, right,
you're developing these neuralpathways in your brain and every
time you do a specific habit,that gets strengthened.
So now you're trying to dosomething new.
You've got a pretty strongopposing force and I think it's
so important to acknowledge that, because most of us don't.
(09:13):
Most of us think there'ssomething wrong with me.
Why is this so hard for me?
I just must be missingsomething.
It's easier for everybody else.
What's wrong with me?
There's nothing wrong with you.
You just have a human brainthat is trying to operate
efficiently and has developedthese pathways to make your life
(09:33):
easier.
Like, hey, let's not, let'sremove some of the
decision-making.
If we know 99 times out of ahundred you've done this one
thing, let's just kind of makethat the default.
So it's tough for everybody tocreate new habits.
So it's tough for everybody tocreate new habits.
(09:55):
And also, if you think about,each time you do a behavior, in
kind of two columns, you've gotthe current behavior, the habit
that you're trying to change.
You probably have thousands oftallies on that side of the
column because you have chosenit over and over and over again
for not days and weeks, butprobably months and years.
And now you've got this newbehavior, this change you're
trying to make, and maybe you'vegot a dozen tallies on that
side.
You've been at it for a coupleof weeks, right?
(10:15):
So if you look at just thesheer numbers, of course you
have this strong pull back tothe default and of course the
default.
And of course, when your kindof emotional state is less than
ideal, you don't really have thedefenses to fight it, right.
That's why you can be reallyyou know, quote unquote good for
(10:41):
a couple of weeks when life iskind of calm.
But then as soon as you getthrown a monkey wrench, your kid
gets sick, or you've got somefire to fight in your business
or you go on vacation.
As soon as something disruptsthe routine.
You're just like what happenedI fell right back into my old
habits.
I worked so hard to do this newthing and it felt so easy to
slip out of it.
That all makes sense.
That's you kind of.
That's your tires finding thatrut again and just slipping back
in because it's comfortable andfamiliar and well-traveled.
(11:04):
So I think it's so important tojust normalize that.
This is what it's like and itdoesn't mean that anything has
gone wrong.
It just means that you continueto put in the reps and to your
point, we are very hard onourselves.
We expect I should be better atthis, I should be further ahead
, and it feels bad when we'renot, but the reality of it is.
(11:24):
The only way for it to geteasier and to create the new
behavior is to let thoseimperfections go.
Give yourself the compassionthat you deserve to say like
it's OK, this is not the end ofthe world, and also to see is
there anything that I can learnfrom this?
If I keep having the samepattern happen, if every time
the weekend hits, my waterdrinking goes out the window,
(11:46):
what can I learn from that?
To be more consistent, and overtime you'll find that, like
with the water.
It gets easier and easier to dobecause you just have the sheer
repetition of doing it in easycircumstances and in harder ones
.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yes, actually, I mentioned in my book, like it's
talking about practicinggratitude, because that's like
my big thing.
But I said how you know,practicing gratitude is kind of
like you know practicing freethrows and, like we remember,
michael Jordan was really goodat free throws, right, and so I
was like you have to practiceday in and day out, because when
(12:24):
it's time for a free throw,when you really need to, that
that's when the pressure is on.
You've got both teams rightbeside you, everybody's yelling,
you got the whole stadiumwatching you.
It's probably because a fouljust happened, so something bad
just happened and you'redistraught.
So you have to be able to you,you know to to do this practice,
whether things are good orwhether things are kind of
(12:46):
hectic.
And so I think it's soimportant and these are, this is
how we've practiced right,because things are going well,
and then something happens, oh,the storm hits, and you're like,
oh, I fell back into my how doI, you know?
And then actually what you said, asking yourselves those
questions, getting back on track, and then that's practice, like
(13:09):
those are the moments that weneed because you know one of the
things.
Another thing I just keep goingback to my book.
I don't mean to do that, I'msorry, but you know, storms are
going to happen, like stuff isgoing to happen.
Most things in life are notguaranteed, but shit happens,
you know, and we have to beprepared to deal with that.
And so having those habits, andgratitude being one of those
(13:32):
habits, is like that's one ofthe reasons why it's so
important.
I do want to mentionneurodivergent brains work a
little different.
I've been reading some articlesabout that and I that, um,
autistic brains don't trim.
They don't trim off the the.
You know, because when we'relittle, there's like the little
(13:55):
branches where the neurons aredoing stuff in our brains, and a
neurotypical brain will trimsome of those little branches.
Autistic brains don't.
And so if habits take a littlebit longer for you or if they
seem impossible, again, it's notyour fault.
Your brain just has way toomany pathways to navigate and so
(14:16):
it's going to be tough for you.
Okay, so I just want to mentionthat, because a lot of times
neurotypical brains are, youknow, the focus, and
neurodivergent people, likepeople with neurodivergent
brains, have a hard time withhabits, and that could be one of
the reasons why.
But there's a lot of researchcoming out, you know.
(14:36):
So stay tuned and we'll talkmore about that.
So talk to me a little bit,esther, about how we bring this
together.
So, like you help your clientsestablish these healthy habits,
and we have our what did youcall them?
The big rock habits, what Iwould call the big domino.
Okay, so then, how do we dothis?
(14:58):
How do we implement this in ourday-to-day life?
Are there any other habits thatare big rock habits that you
advise us to pay?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
attention to no-transcript.
(15:39):
It's still not working.
Maybe approach it differently.
And that's when I gave myselfpermission at the time to aim
for five to seven.
That was a step above what Iwas no pun intended what I had
been currently doing, and itfelt like something reasonable
to be shooting for.
I wasn't so overwhelmed by themagnitude of it that I would
(16:01):
shut down after a week, andgiving myself a range meant that
, like at first it was like,okay, if I get you know 5,001,
I'm good.
And then, as that became thenorm, I started getting you know
closer to the upper end of therange and when I was
consistently around seven, thenI bumped it up and it was seven
to nine, that sort of thing.
So it took several months toramp myself up.
(16:23):
But then, once I did, I've beenaveraging 10,000 plus for years
.
So that's just one example oftaking kind of inventory of your
current healthy habits.
So you know big rocks yourdaily movement, your step goal,
your strength training, yourrest and recovery, your fiber
and protein intake, your totalcaloric intake, your sleep and
(16:45):
your stress management.
Those are what I consider bigrocks Taking inventory of what
am I already doing consistently.
Well, right there of that list,there are probably two or three
that are pretty solid for you.
Maybe you always get that sleepand you're like I can set and
forget that one.
Give yourself credit for whatyou've already established and
then just pick one or two tostart ramping up gradually.
(17:07):
That's really the key.
That's so, so tempting to justkind of jump in with both feet
and be like I am tired offeeling this way.
I want to be healthier, I wantmy clothes to fit better, I want
to have more energy.
So the more I do now, thebetter off I am.
And you have to have kind of,you have to lengthen that time
horizon a little bit and say,okay, do I have experience doing
this exact thing already andhow did it pan out?
(17:30):
And if it didn't work out whichit didn't, because here I am
then what do I have to lose bytrying a different approach?
So that's one piece of it isreally meeting yourself where
you are cutting down on theoverwhelm.
I think the second piece isasking yourself who can help.
Right, we tend to have, whetherit's in business or in health
(17:51):
or in life.
We have this kind ofindependent resolve of I
shouldn't need help, and if I'masking for help it's because I'm
weak and I don't like the way.
That feels right.
But that's not the case at all.
Strong people ask for helpbecause they recognize I want to
get from A to B and this personor this thing can help me get
there faster or with lessfrustration.
(18:13):
So, whether that's working witha coach or a trainer or just
finding a peer support systemthat normalizes the behavior
that you're trying to develop,it's the same thing with a
business mastermind you havepeople who are kind of in the
trenches with you, who get whatit's like, who can help share
ideas, celebrate with you,commiserate with you, who can
(18:34):
show you what's possible for you.
Having that support is reallyinvaluable.
And then I think the third pieceis a skill that I call
compassionate ownership, whichwe've touched on a bit already,
which is cutting yourself someslack.
You know, understand thatyou're not going to be perfect
and it's not going to be thissome slack.
You know, understand thatyou're not going to be perfect
and it's not going to be this.
You know smooth, bumpless road.
(18:55):
There are going to be ups anddowns and there are going to be
challenges, and that's just partof it that you let those go.
You accept that, you know it'sokay and also you use those as
opportunities to learn and growand take responsibility for the
fact that if your goals areimportant to you, you're the one
who has to figure out the wayto make this work.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yes, I love that and shout out to what you said about
protein and fiber.
My stepmom died.
You know, one of the thingsthat was her downfall was colon
cancer, and so that's somethingthat's killing so many young
people, and I heard the otherday young people are not dying
of protein deficiency, but theyare dying of colon cancer.
So increase your fiber.
(19:36):
So I think it's so important.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I lost my mom to colon cancer also, so I'm right
there with you.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Oh, wow, Wow.
So like, yeah, it's a big deal.
So like I know that it soundsreally weird, but talk about
eating fiber so you could poop.
That's so important.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, no, it really is we call it kind of the final
frontier, because it is.
It's not an easy thing to do.
There are all sorts of you know, protein snacks now and things
like that Fiber.
Like you have to be reallyintentional to get in your fiber
, a lot more fruits and veggiesthan people are used to, a lot
more whole grains, but it's so,so worth.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
And again, we're not talking about overhauling your
whole diet.
We're saying, like you know,look up a list of high fiber
foods and exactly right, right.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Can I go through a can of beans in a week to start?
Let's, let's start there andthen, and then gradually add.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think that's such a bigdeal.
That's a.
That's only one of the successhabits I'm going to be adding
into, because it makes a lot ofsense, right, and as women, we
need, we need protein.
We don't eat enough protein,and so I think it's such a big
deal that now you know likewe're focusing so much on eating
protein.
By the time this episode comesout, maybe there's something
(20:45):
else going on, but right now Iknow that protein is a big deal,
especially for weight loss, butyou know, also for muscle and
fiber.
So I think that's such a bigdeal.
So how can we stay in touchwith you, esther?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
So if you are someone who has ahealth and weight loss goal and
you want basically the roadmapto follow, my book to your
health is that it's intended tobe kind of a implement as you go
.
It walks you through everythingwe've been talking about how to
actually make these changes andmake them in a way that sticks.
You can buy that on Amazon orwherever books are sold.
My podcast is also called Toyour Health and I have a free
(21:21):
download.
It's 21 Time-Saving HealthFacts and it's intended for busy
entrepreneurs and professionalswho want to maximize their
health but minimize their timecommitment, and you can get that
at madebymecoachingcom.
Slash time and, like we've beentalking about, my advice would
be to read through it and nottry to do all 21 at once, but to
(21:45):
pick one to start with andgradually add these to your week
to get back time, get backmoney and make your health more
of a cornerstone in your life.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And social media.
How can we follow you?
Yeah, I'm most active LinkedIn,Instagram and Facebook, and my
handles are just Esther Avant.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Awesome, and all of those links will be available
down in the show notes.
And now, esther, as we'resigning off, I would like to
know actually I have twoquestions.
One what part does gratitudeplay in our health and in our
habits?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh, I love this question.
This is a great question and,interestingly enough, I have a
six year old son and we bothkeep gratitude journals every
night before bed.
And, as you were talkingearlier about gratitude, I was
thinking how much easier it'sgotten for him with repetition
that it used to be.
We'd say do three things, andhe'd, you know, have to look
around.
He's like I'm grateful for mystuffies and you know, it was
(22:44):
all kind of very, you know,predictable.
And he bumped himself up tofive pieces of gratitude a night
night and they've gotten somuch deeper.
And our conversation last nightwas he said that he was
grateful that he's never brokena body part, and I asked what
made him think about that?
I, you know, did somebody inclass, you know, have a cast or
something?
And and he said no.
(23:06):
And we were talking about howhard it is to be grateful for
the things that we take forgranted.
Right, you're?
You don't wake up every daythinking, thank goodness I can
breathe through my nose today,but as soon as you have a stuffy
nose, you're like, ah, whydon't I appreciate this more
when I can do it?
And I think, you know, gratitudefor our health is everything,
(23:29):
and I mean so much has to goright for us to have been
created as people and for us tohave made it as far into our
lives as we have.
There are so many things thatcan go wrong and when they're
not, that is so worthy ofgratitude.
So if ever you're feelingungrateful, do a body scan and
think I am grateful for my twoeyes, I'm grateful for my nose
(23:50):
that can smell, and if you havesomething like long COVID,
you've really becomeappreciative of a sense of smell
.
But there's so much to begrateful for and I think we
naturally have that kind ofnegativity bias where we focus
on what's not going well, whatwe don't have, and just flipping
the script and remindingyourself that you have this
whole laundry list of things tobe grateful for is so important.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, I love that, and our brain is trying to keep
us safe and so it has thatnegativity perspective.
But this is how I was able toshift my perspective right and I
can see you see the whole worldin a different light, and I
love that you brought your soninto it.
In my book I say like I canonly imagine the amazing,
fantastical things that kidscould come up with, to be
(24:34):
grateful for things that youmight not even notice.
So I love that.
All right, and then last finalbig aha moment, like what is
that big tip that you give yourclients that they're like oh my
God, this was worth every pennyI paid you.
Like this is it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I think the the big secret is what everybody wants,
and the reality is there isn'tone.
Whatever it is that you're kindof struggling with, there's
probably not this one magic fixto it.
The unglamorous side of this isthat there's probably a lot of
small things that are going tomake a little bit of a
difference, and if you startstacking those on each other,
(25:10):
that makes a big difference.
So I'd say that the key is stoplooking for that one big thing
and just start doing the unsexybasics that we've been talking
about, and that's where themagic comes from.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I love that.
They are unsexy basics, aren'tthey?
But they get shit done.
I love that so much.
Okay, that's awesome.
That's definitely gonna bequoted from this episode, all
right.
So thank you so much, esther.
This has been absolutelyfantastic, and when we started
talking about health, I thinkpeople were like, oh great, this
is gonna be somebody telling meto eat more broccoli.
(25:44):
So we did not go that way andI'm so excited about that.
Right.
This was a very like brainypart of health and and just very
holistic.
So I really appreciate that and, um, and I appreciate you being
here with us today.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, it was a blastawesome and we will catch you
guys next time on the nextepisode of overcome yourself,
(26:05):
the podcast.
Bye.
hello and welcome back to the next episode of
overcome yourself, the podcast.
As you know, my name is nicoleand I'm so excited to be here
today with esther.
Now, esther is very exciting abest-selling author, so I can't
wait to hear about how she didthat, um.
But she also talks about health, and you guys know that in my
book, my success habits includesome like really basic things
(00:27):
that aren't necessarilymoney-making things, and like
drinking water and, like youknow, like paying attention to
what you eat.
Those are all really importantthings that we need to pay
attention to as we grow oursuccess, and so I'm very excited
to have Esther here to talk tous a little bit more about what
it can mean to be healthy aswe're on our way to building our
businesses.
So please, esther, take it away.
(00:49):
Tell us a little bit about whoyou are and who you help.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Thank you so much for the introduction.
I am, like you said, an author,a podcaster, a speaker, but
first and foremost, a coach.
I've worked for the last 19years in women's health and
weight loss coaching and haveworked with thousands of women
in that time who want to bettertheir health, and what I've seen
(01:14):
is that we all have pretty muchthe same barriers standing in
our way, and the ways that wecan teach ourselves to overcome
them are also applicable tobuilding our businesses, our
personal lives every otheraspect of our lives benefits
when we take better care ofourselves.
(01:36):
So most of my clients areworking moms, whether it's for
their own businesses or for acorporation.
You know the woman who's likekind of trying to do it all and
often I'm sure you can relate tothis often feel like you're not
doing any of the things wellenough, and that's one of the
things that I've seen is that wetend to put so much pressure on
(01:57):
ourselves and expect so much ofourselves that we're almost
setting ourselves up for failure.
So a lot of the work that I doyes, I focus on, you know,
exercise and nutrition and the,the the tactical kind of what to
do stuff.
But really what makes thebiggest difference is the
beneath the surface stuff, themental work and understanding.
Why is it that you know I couldask you right now what are,
(02:19):
what are healthy habits?
And you can give me a laundrylist of you know, I know what to
do.
Why is it that it's so hard toactually do it and do it long
enough and well enough that yousee the results?
So that's really kind of whereI, where I dive in as like the
human behavior kind of piece ofit.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh, I love that.
That is that's so important,that's so powerful.
So tell me more like, like yousaid, you know a lot of my
habits drinking water every day.
That's one of my base ones.
Like you got to drink water,you got to get your 10,000 steps
or whatever number that is foryou.
So can you tell me a few morelike you know?
Like of the habits and how dowe implement these healthy
(02:56):
habits as these busyprofessionals who run houses,
who run businesses, who runfamilies, like there's a lot
going on.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, so you nailed something that I refer to as the
big rock habits.
That part of why it's hard toreally change our health is
because we overwhelm ourselves,trying to do way too much, and a
lot of that stuff doesn'tmatter very much.
Yeah, exactly, we can allrelate to that where you just be
like okay, I'm turning over anew leaf and starting tomorrow,
I'm doing all these things andit doesn't end up sticking.
So you're so much better offidentifying those big rock
habits and really honing in onthose.
(03:33):
Daily movement in the form of astep goal is a huge one Making
sure that you're hydrated, yourstrength training, getting in
your protein, getting in yourfiber, making sure that you're
sleeping, you know kind of these, these big things.
That it's not revolutionary.
You've heard it all before, butit's one of those like yeah,
yeah, I know that.
Like, what's the real secret?
It's like, well, that is thesecret.
Doing those things consistentlyis the secret.
(03:55):
So let's figure out how to dothat.
And that's generally where thestruggle is is, if I give you a
list of six habits to focus on,you're going to try to do all of
those things perfectly,starting immediately, and what
ends up happening is that whenit's something new, we're not
necessarily great at it at first, so that feels uncomfortable
(04:17):
and we are prone to giving up.
Or we've tried to change somuch at once on top of our
businesses and our families thatit just it feels like one thing
too many and we start kind ofdropping all the balls that
we're juggling.
So the key to actuallysuccessfully implementing these
things is to start with less andgive yourself the gift of the
(04:39):
time that it takes to reallyestablish a habit.
The same thing applies to ourbusinesses.
If you're starting out andyou're like all right, I need to
grow my TikTok and I need to beon Instagram and I should start
a YouTube channel and maybe apodcast and I need to build my
email list and I need a freebie,all of a sudden you're so
overwhelmed and because you'retrying to do so many things,
you're not doing any of themparticularly well and you're so
(05:01):
much better off.
Any business coach will tellyou, pick one and really devote
yourself to that, and once maybethat's up and running and you
feel successful with it and youkind of have it on autopilot,
then add on another thing.
So the same thing applies toour health.
Go for some low-hanging fruitfirst.
So you mentioned water.
I've got some right here.
That's a great one.
(05:21):
To just say, my primary focusright now is to get myself up to
you know eight glasses a day,or whatever your goal may be,
and you don't put any pressureon yourself to do more than that
.
And then, once you're doingthat regularly, it's like all
right, I'm drinking the water, Idon't need to give it a whole
lot of energy.
What's the next thing that Ican add on?
Can I start taking, you know,two 10 minute breaks during my
(05:43):
workday where I take a walk?
And now I'm going to startworking, working on my steps?
And if you give yourself theopportunity to take, you know,
say, six months to establishsome of these foundational
habits, you're going to be somuch better off than if you try
to do them all at once and kindof fall on your face after,
after the first month.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I love that and I talk about that in my book,
about how, you know, I dive alittle bit into how do habits
brain, brain, how do habits workin our brain, and we talk about
how we have these little pathsin our brain and when we do
something, all the time thelittle neurons are going to take
(06:22):
that path.
It's going to be very easy.
And I allude to, like, ifyou're walking through a grassy
area and you see a path thatsomeone has already walked
through, well, it's really easyto follow that path because it's
already there.
And when we're establishing newhabits, what we're doing is
we're walking through the grass,there's no path.
We're just we're going becausewe got to make a path.
(06:44):
Right through the grass,there's no path.
We're just we're going becausewe got to make a path right.
And so it makes sense that ifyou're trying to walk down six
different paths at the same time, none of them are going to get
built right.
I think that's really, reallypowerful.
And I just want to mention yousaid to get to eight glasses of
water a day.
Start with one.
(07:04):
I just want to mention you saidto get to eight glasses of
water a day, start with one.
You don't have to drink eightglasses, chugging them all at
once.
Start with one glass of water.
Like, where can you for me itget your coffee?
Well, what happens right afteryou're done drinking coffee?
(07:25):
Like, is it just a plethora ofoptions?
No, like I'm done with mycoffee.
Or, better yet, alongside mycoffee, I've got my bottle of
water.
I've got my cup of water.
It looks like.
It looks like a, like a youknow, it's a turvish right or
(07:47):
like one of my metal cups, butit has a straw, because I, you
know, when I used to drink a lotof soda, I used to love
drinking out of the straw.
So I was like, let me imitatethat so that I can incorporate
it in my water.
And so now I drink water everyday without having to think
about it, because when I getcoffee I get water, or right
after my coffee, I get my water.
And so there's no thought.
And so now that path has becomeone of those little grassy
paths that's easy to walk down,right?
So can you tell me a little bitabout that?
(08:08):
Can we talk a little bit aboutthe actual psychology of the
habits and how we can have somegrace on ourselves, because we
are going to fall and you knowthat's part of the magic of the
journey is getting back up anddoing it again so we can build
that path.
So can you talk to me a littlebit about?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
that.
Yeah, I love the analogy youmade and I use a very similar
one of kind of grooving a like arut.
And I grew up in Maine.
We used to have the spring falland I had this long dirt
driveway and it was like wewould end up with these really
deep ruts in the road and whenyour tires are in them it feels
damn near impossible to getyourself out, and that's what it
(08:50):
can feel like to start.
A new habit is, if you thinkabout the repetition, right,
you're developing these neuralpathways in your brain and every
time you do a specific habit,that gets strengthened.
So now you're trying to dosomething new.
You've got a pretty strongopposing force and I think it's
so important to acknowledge that, because most of us don't.
(09:13):
Most of us think there'ssomething wrong with me.
Why is this so hard for me?
I just must be missingsomething.
It's easier for everybody else.
What's wrong with me?
There's nothing wrong with you.
You just have a human brainthat is trying to operate
efficiently and has developedthese pathways to make your life
(09:33):
easier.
Like, hey, let's not, let'sremove some of the
decision-making.
If we know 99 times out of ahundred you've done this one
thing, let's just kind of makethat the default.
So it's tough for everybody tocreate new habits.
So it's tough for everybody tocreate new habits.
(09:55):
And also, if you think about,each time you do a behavior, in
kind of two columns, you've gotthe current behavior, the habit
that you're trying to change.
You probably have thousands oftallies on that side of the
column because you have chosenit over and over and over again
for not days and weeks, butprobably months and years.
And now you've got this newbehavior, this change you're
trying to make, and maybe you'vegot a dozen tallies on that
side.
You've been at it for a coupleof weeks, right?
(10:15):
So if you look at just thesheer numbers, of course you
have this strong pull back tothe default and of course the
default.
And of course, when your kindof emotional state is less than
ideal, you don't really have thedefenses to fight it, right.
That's why you can be reallyyou know, quote unquote good for
(10:41):
a couple of weeks when life iskind of calm.
But then as soon as you getthrown a monkey wrench, your kid
gets sick, or you've got somefire to fight in your business
or you go on vacation.
As soon as something disruptsthe routine.
You're just like what happenedI fell right back into my old
habits.
I worked so hard to do this newthing and it felt so easy to
slip out of it.
That all makes sense.
That's you kind of.
That's your tires finding thatrut again and just slipping back
in because it's comfortable andfamiliar and well-traveled.
(11:04):
So I think it's so important tojust normalize that.
This is what it's like and itdoesn't mean that anything has
gone wrong.
It just means that you continueto put in the reps and to your
point, we are very hard onourselves.
We expect I should be better atthis, I should be further ahead
, and it feels bad when we'renot, but the reality of it is.
(11:24):
The only way for it to geteasier and to create the new
behavior is to let thoseimperfections go.
Give yourself the compassionthat you deserve to say like
it's OK, this is not the end ofthe world, and also to see is
there anything that I can learnfrom this?
If I keep having the samepattern happen, if every time
the weekend hits, my waterdrinking goes out the window,
(11:46):
what can I learn from that?
To be more consistent, and overtime you'll find that, like
with the water.
It gets easier and easier to dobecause you just have the sheer
repetition of doing it in easycircumstances and in harder ones
.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yes, actually, I mentioned in my book, like it's
talking about practicinggratitude, because that's like
my big thing.
But I said how you know,practicing gratitude is kind of
like you know practicing freethrows and, like we remember,
michael Jordan was really goodat free throws, right, and so I
was like you have to practiceday in and day out, because when
(12:24):
it's time for a free throw,when you really need to, that
that's when the pressure is on.
You've got both teams rightbeside you, everybody's yelling,
you got the whole stadiumwatching you.
It's probably because a fouljust happened, so something bad
just happened and you'redistraught.
So you have to be able to you,you know to to do this practice,
whether things are good orwhether things are kind of
(12:46):
hectic.
And so I think it's soimportant and these are, this is
how we've practiced right,because things are going well,
and then something happens, oh,the storm hits, and you're like,
oh, I fell back into my how doI, you know?
And then actually what you said, asking yourselves those
questions, getting back on track, and then that's practice, like
(13:09):
those are the moments that weneed because you know one of the
things.
Another thing I just keep goingback to my book.
I don't mean to do that, I'msorry, but you know, storms are
going to happen, like stuff isgoing to happen.
Most things in life are notguaranteed, but shit happens,
you know, and we have to beprepared to deal with that.
And so having those habits, andgratitude being one of those
(13:32):
habits, is like that's one ofthe reasons why it's so
important.
I do want to mentionneurodivergent brains work a
little different.
I've been reading some articlesabout that and I that, um,
autistic brains don't trim.
They don't trim off the the.
You know, because when we'relittle, there's like the little
(13:55):
branches where the neurons aredoing stuff in our brains, and a
neurotypical brain will trimsome of those little branches.
Autistic brains don't.
And so if habits take a littlebit longer for you or if they
seem impossible, again, it's notyour fault.
Your brain just has way toomany pathways to navigate and so
(14:16):
it's going to be tough for you.
Okay, so I just want to mentionthat, because a lot of times
neurotypical brains are, youknow, the focus, and
neurodivergent people, likepeople with neurodivergent
brains, have a hard time withhabits, and that could be one of
the reasons why.
But there's a lot of researchcoming out, you know.
(14:36):
So stay tuned and we'll talkmore about that.
So talk to me a little bit,esther, about how we bring this
together.
So, like you help your clientsestablish these healthy habits,
and we have our what did youcall them?
The big rock habits, what Iwould call the big domino.
Okay, so then, how do we dothis?
(14:58):
How do we implement this in ourday-to-day life?
Are there any other habits thatare big rock habits that you
advise us to pay?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
attention to no-transcript.
(15:39):
It's still not working.
Maybe approach it differently.
And that's when I gave myselfpermission at the time to aim
for five to seven.
That was a step above what Iwas no pun intended what I had
been currently doing, and itfelt like something reasonable
to be shooting for.
I wasn't so overwhelmed by themagnitude of it that I would
(16:01):
shut down after a week, andgiving myself a range meant that
, like at first it was like,okay, if I get you know 5,001,
I'm good.
And then, as that became thenorm, I started getting you know
closer to the upper end of therange and when I was
consistently around seven, thenI bumped it up and it was seven
to nine, that sort of thing.
So it took several months toramp myself up.
(16:23):
But then, once I did, I've beenaveraging 10,000 plus for years
.
So that's just one example oftaking kind of inventory of your
current healthy habits.
So you know big rocks yourdaily movement, your step goal,
your strength training, yourrest and recovery, your fiber
and protein intake, your totalcaloric intake, your sleep and
(16:45):
your stress management.
Those are what I consider bigrocks Taking inventory of what
am I already doing consistently.
Well, right there of that list,there are probably two or three
that are pretty solid for you.
Maybe you always get that sleepand you're like I can set and
forget that one.
Give yourself credit for whatyou've already established and
then just pick one or two tostart ramping up gradually.
(17:07):
That's really the key.
That's so, so tempting to justkind of jump in with both feet
and be like I am tired offeeling this way.
I want to be healthier, I wantmy clothes to fit better, I want
to have more energy.
So the more I do now, thebetter off I am.
And you have to have kind of,you have to lengthen that time
horizon a little bit and say,okay, do I have experience doing
this exact thing already andhow did it pan out?
(17:30):
And if it didn't work out whichit didn't, because here I am
then what do I have to lose bytrying a different approach?
So that's one piece of it isreally meeting yourself where
you are cutting down on theoverwhelm.
I think the second piece isasking yourself who can help.
Right, we tend to have, whetherit's in business or in health
(17:51):
or in life.
We have this kind ofindependent resolve of I
shouldn't need help, and if I'masking for help it's because I'm
weak and I don't like the way.
That feels right.
But that's not the case at all.
Strong people ask for helpbecause they recognize I want to
get from A to B and this personor this thing can help me get
there faster or with lessfrustration.
(18:13):
So, whether that's working witha coach or a trainer or just
finding a peer support systemthat normalizes the behavior
that you're trying to develop,it's the same thing with a
business mastermind you havepeople who are kind of in the
trenches with you, who get whatit's like, who can help share
ideas, celebrate with you,commiserate with you, who can
(18:34):
show you what's possible for you.
Having that support is reallyinvaluable.
And then I think the third pieceis a skill that I call
compassionate ownership, whichwe've touched on a bit already,
which is cutting yourself someslack.
You know, understand thatyou're not going to be perfect
and it's not going to be thissome slack.
You know, understand thatyou're not going to be perfect
and it's not going to be this.
You know smooth, bumpless road.
(18:55):
There are going to be ups anddowns and there are going to be
challenges, and that's just partof it that you let those go.
You accept that, you know it'sokay and also you use those as
opportunities to learn and growand take responsibility for the
fact that if your goals areimportant to you, you're the one
who has to figure out the wayto make this work.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Yes, I love that and shout out to what you said about
protein and fiber.
My stepmom died.
You know, one of the thingsthat was her downfall was colon
cancer, and so that's somethingthat's killing so many young
people, and I heard the otherday young people are not dying
of protein deficiency, but theyare dying of colon cancer.
So increase your fiber.
(19:36):
So I think it's so important.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I lost my mom to colon cancer also, so I'm right
there with you.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Oh, wow, Wow.
So like, yeah, it's a big deal.
So like I know that it soundsreally weird, but talk about
eating fiber so you could poop.
That's so important.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, no, it really is we call it kind of the final
frontier, because it is.
It's not an easy thing to do.
There are all sorts of you know, protein snacks now and things
like that Fiber.
Like you have to be reallyintentional to get in your fiber
, a lot more fruits and veggiesthan people are used to, a lot
more whole grains, but it's so,so worth.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
And again, we're not talking about overhauling your
whole diet.
We're saying, like you know,look up a list of high fiber
foods and exactly right, right.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Can I go through a can of beans in a week to start?
Let's, let's start there andthen, and then gradually add.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah.
So I think that's such a bigdeal.
That's a.
That's only one of the successhabits I'm going to be adding
into, because it makes a lot ofsense, right, and as women, we
need, we need protein.
We don't eat enough protein,and so I think it's such a big
deal that now you know likewe're focusing so much on eating
protein.
By the time this episode comesout, maybe there's something
(20:45):
else going on, but right now Iknow that protein is a big deal,
especially for weight loss, butyou know, also for muscle and
fiber.
So I think that's such a bigdeal.
So how can we stay in touchwith you, esther?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
So if you are someone who has ahealth and weight loss goal and
you want basically the roadmapto follow, my book to your
health is that it's intended tobe kind of a implement as you go
.
It walks you through everythingwe've been talking about how to
actually make these changes andmake them in a way that sticks.
You can buy that on Amazon orwherever books are sold.
My podcast is also called Toyour Health and I have a free
(21:21):
download.
It's 21 Time-Saving HealthFacts and it's intended for busy
entrepreneurs and professionalswho want to maximize their
health but minimize their timecommitment, and you can get that
at madebymecoachingcom.
Slash time and, like we've beentalking about, my advice would
be to read through it and nottry to do all 21 at once, but to
(21:45):
pick one to start with andgradually add these to your week
to get back time, get backmoney and make your health more
of a cornerstone in your life.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And social media.
How can we follow you?
Yeah, I'm most active LinkedIn,Instagram and Facebook, and my
handles are just Esther Avant.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Awesome, and all of those links will be available
down in the show notes.
And now, esther, as we'resigning off, I would like to
know actually I have twoquestions.
One what part does gratitudeplay in our health and in our
habits?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh, I love this question.
This is a great question and,interestingly enough, I have a
six year old son and we bothkeep gratitude journals every
night before bed.
And, as you were talkingearlier about gratitude, I was
thinking how much easier it'sgotten for him with repetition
that it used to be.
We'd say do three things, andhe'd, you know, have to look
around.
He's like I'm grateful for mystuffies and you know, it was
(22:44):
all kind of very, you know,predictable.
And he bumped himself up tofive pieces of gratitude a night
night and they've gotten somuch deeper.
And our conversation last nightwas he said that he was
grateful that he's never brokena body part, and I asked what
made him think about that?
I, you know, did somebody inclass, you know, have a cast or
something?
And and he said no.
(23:06):
And we were talking about howhard it is to be grateful for
the things that we take forgranted.
Right, you're?
You don't wake up every daythinking, thank goodness I can
breathe through my nose today,but as soon as you have a stuffy
nose, you're like, ah, whydon't I appreciate this more
when I can do it?
And I think, you know, gratitudefor our health is everything,
(23:29):
and I mean so much has to goright for us to have been
created as people and for us tohave made it as far into our
lives as we have.
There are so many things thatcan go wrong and when they're
not, that is so worthy ofgratitude.
So if ever you're feelingungrateful, do a body scan and
think I am grateful for my twoeyes, I'm grateful for my nose
(23:50):
that can smell, and if you havesomething like long COVID,
you've really becomeappreciative of a sense of smell
.
But there's so much to begrateful for and I think we
naturally have that kind ofnegativity bias where we focus
on what's not going well, whatwe don't have, and just flipping
the script and remindingyourself that you have this
whole laundry list of things tobe grateful for is so important.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, I love that, and our brain is trying to keep
us safe and so it has thatnegativity perspective.
But this is how I was able toshift my perspective right and I
can see you see the whole worldin a different light, and I
love that you brought your soninto it.
In my book I say like I canonly imagine the amazing,
fantastical things that kidscould come up with, to be
(24:34):
grateful for things that youmight not even notice.
So I love that.
All right, and then last finalbig aha moment, like what is
that big tip that you give yourclients that they're like oh my
God, this was worth every pennyI paid you.
Like this is it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I think the the big secret is what everybody wants,
and the reality is there isn'tone.
Whatever it is that you're kindof struggling with, there's
probably not this one magic fixto it.
The unglamorous side of this isthat there's probably a lot of
small things that are going tomake a little bit of a
difference, and if you startstacking those on each other,
(25:10):
that makes a big difference.
So I'd say that the key is stoplooking for that one big thing
and just start doing the unsexybasics that we've been talking
about, and that's where themagic comes from.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I love that.
They are unsexy basics, aren'tthey?
But they get shit done.
I love that so much.
Okay, that's awesome.
That's definitely gonna bequoted from this episode, all
right.
So thank you so much, esther.
This has been absolutelyfantastic, and when we started
talking about health, I thinkpeople were like, oh great, this
is gonna be somebody telling meto eat more broccoli.
(25:44):
So we did not go that way andI'm so excited about that.
Right.
This was a very like brainypart of health and and just very
holistic.
So I really appreciate that and, um, and I appreciate you being
here with us today.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, it was a blastawesome and we will catch you
guys next time on the nextepisode of overcome yourself,
(26:05):
the podcast.
Bye.
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