Game Devs Talk About The Dark Side of NSFW Games | Ep. 5

On this weeks episode of Overscoped, the guys talk about NSFW games! This is a spicy one, should game developers lean into the darker side of gaming or is it a slippery slope?

We are joined by:

https://www.youtube.com/@mz_eth

https://www.youtube.com/@MaxyDev

https://www.youtube.com/@kobedev

https://www.youtube.com/@VerasStudios

Patreon: patreon.com/Overscoped

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Speaking of touching them

(00:03):
NSFW games
Yeah, I did want to talk about not safe for work games. How do we feel about not safe for work games?
This is it's all NSFW games. Oh
Yes, I don't know why you guys would accuse me of seeking out NSFW games on itch when I
I'm just saying

(00:24):
Certain things game making can look as good as a triple-a studio instantaneously at night very quickly very very quickly
I'm one of those might be environment design or how we'll see Unreal Engine have amazing models and lighting look
Super super good, but one that has never caught up that is just always missing is storytelling mechanics
Especially with high production value on top of all the production vice of this tricky
What if you just had a bad story?
It's giving a cool voice like

(00:46):
They were just like talking about
I don't know. I'm not sure if you control F on the script booting comes up more often than this whole time. It's fucked. Hey, you're afraid to like bleep out everything.
How do you feel about how you took your thumbnail that had no game

(01:07):
Game engine stuff like you had no models and then you went for something a little more video gaming
I feel like the algorithm wants to see video game stuff and be like this is going through those types of people
I don't know. I feel like it has nothing to do with the intro the way the intro was earlier
I think it just scared off the actual audience and then the algorithm gave up exactly so so the other so the algorithm was like
Okay, these people they don't watch this so they like that it wasn't good for the target group

(01:30):
There's an interesting thing that's like it feels bad to reupload because you think oh people are gonna see that I reuploaded the people
That know my stuff are gonna be like oh he reuploaded
But as someone on the outside because I am I am someone on the outside like I look at it and go like oh
Yeah, like I like that I like that video
You know I just think like I see a thing I like it yet. It doesn't like I think that's actually
Something that helped this video a bit that you know my car audience didn't really watch this or watch it less because then you do

(01:54):
Was that confused? I was like, okay, they watch every single video film, but they don't watch this video like
They kind of hate these this video of people that are you know that we show this you to that are new
They like this much more like my new new viewers have much more much higher every D
And then returning viewers which is that's wild so so so I think that's that that gave the algorithm like this

(02:18):
They'll push to like let's see what happens. Yeah for sure. All right guys. Well, what's up?
Welcome to the overscope podcast. My name is emzy underscore F joining me is Henry Veras studios on YouTube
Kobe Kobe dev on YouTube. What's up? And Maxi Maxi dev on YouTube. Yeah, we're gonna talk about a couple small topics
Oh, hey, buddy, um, and it's just nice to hear about your your stuff

(02:39):
I don't know how much that will that will keep in but I love hearing about
Videos doing well. I think it's fun when you guys are uploading stuff and everything's growing and doing well
Oh, well, and it's hard not to be like depressed when it doesn't do well
This is a weird part of this whole thing when you upload stuff and like man, I didn't do so well
It's hard to be like, all right, let's do another video, but it's so interesting
You say that because I feel that's like not true. I don't for me like I don't really care either way for video

(03:02):
It does well or not
It's just interesting to hear that coming out the gate with a disagreement. I smart. That's that's like well adjusted
I wish I had that um
I think it might be a problem because I just don't
Well, I mean, I don't I have I haven't edited a lot of my videos
So that's probably like a part of it. But also I just feel like I

(03:25):
Don't really feel connected to any of the videos I make like I feel like I would care more if they were videos that I was happy with
Like that I wanted to make yeah, but we're gonna start happy with all of them. I'm not like I'm not like
Oh, this is a great video. It's just like I'm just trying to edit for retention
You know if you could change anything to make your videos something you want to do like what would you even change? Would you do?

(03:49):
game
For videos, I probably wouldn't do videos honestly. I just don't enjoy making them
Um, but I think that's just cuz uh, I've been doing it for so long and like as work
You know also yep, and I feel like that kind of drained it out of me
But every time I try to do something that I want to do I always think it ends up being really cringe

(04:10):
So I was like, okay, I maybe this isn't good, you know, I know that feeling cringe in what way actually I
Feel like this sort of like pretentious, you know like your
Ego gets in the video. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't want to talk about this
He wants to talk about the actual topics. No, I actually do want to talk interesting as fuck, dude

(04:33):
I don't want to see you stop doing YouTube content. I think that's the most interesting thing
Not that you have to like holding you hostage
Here's one thing I don't think you get enough credit for you have one of the best YouTube like talking voices in I think
The space like just I don't know every time I hear your shit
I'm just like what the fuck like it's so cool like it's a sad that you don't have
Content that you know that you love because I think I don't know how maxi feels or Kobe

(04:54):
But I feel like I'm really happy with my stuff and that makes me want to keep going
The worst I ever feels when I upload stuff. I don't like
If it does well, that's fine, and then what doesn't do well
I'm like, so why did you do it? You didn't like the video. You shouldn't have even uploaded it
It's very rare that that happens, but damn
This is usually with your shorts
Yeah, the short to the thing cuz I'm never doing a full-length video that I hated

(05:15):
You know how I could that could happen as if a sponsor was like it's got to get done and I'm like fuck
I'm with the biggest fear
I made a fish gun in my game. Yeah
That one was good. I thought you liked that content
I thought you're gonna lean more into that into the fish gun idea. Yeah, sorry my discord froze up there
Oh, yeah my the fish gun thing I liked but before that was uploading shorts from the stream and I don't know

(05:38):
I'm like rambling you can tell I'm nervous and then if I upload that and someone's like hey, what's the point of this?
I'm like, you're right. I don't know. I just want to take it down. It's the feeling I have
So I just I want to lean into stuff that I can produce because then I least had like that set sign off on it
I'm being like this isn't just me rambling on stream. This is like alright
I scripted or tried to or recorded and edited things like alright
This is it if you don't like this then at least I tried, you know

(05:59):
I think it's interesting that you said that you like my YouTube voice cuz Max. I love it. Max. He hates it
Really?
Yeah, what is wrong?
I like your voice when you talk but I feel like in your videos
You're like very it doesn't feel like you're talking to me. It's just like you're like like it's scripted
Yeah, I mean, I really like like when you're

(06:20):
video that's
That you made recently that your editor is me that they showed me. I really like the way you talk there
Not beginning but like after the yep
Transition I heard about is it?
Yeah, I feel like that one is so far from like what I usually have and I'm super interested to see how

(06:43):
How well it does because also that one was interesting because I didn't write a script or anything for it
I didn't even when I started recording. I didn't even know that I was gonna be recording a video
I just was recording for like audio and visual like just as a test and I just started talking and I was like
Oh, maybe I can make this into a video or maybe not do you like how this video turned out?
Mm-hmm. Do you like how this video turned out like do you like this video? I?

(07:08):
I don't think so. I think that I am doing it. Okay. Hold on
I think that it's not as interesting as I I think it is or it's not interesting
But also you guys also
Have said that maybe that's like not the best way to look at it, you know
because like people are interested in hearing about people's stories and whatever

(07:30):
And recently like the most consistent popular video that I have right now is just me talking about like, you know
Two years of trying to get into game development, you know, so it's like I feel like that's a very me focused video
So I was thinking if if that works, maybe this one will work too
But I didn't really think that two-year story was was interesting and I don't think this video is that interesting either

(07:55):
but
You know, I don't know if I'll do well. We'll see I can't wait to see it
I like the trying different things though
Because if you're not having fun where you're at like actively it sounds like you don't like doing the videos
And then you don't love when the out the output of the video
Um, I think what you the worst thing you could do is keep doing the same thing
I think I don't like the videos themselves, but I do like the projects. I think the projects are cool, you know, that's huge

(08:15):
Oh the game projects or the the video the
Projects. Yeah, yeah, it's a hot old step. I was like when you edit the video like I would like watching it
And then you're like, ah it sucks, but I'll just keep editing it
Yeah
Also, I don't really edit I haven't edited a lot of the videos, but the ones that I have edited
I I just go like, yeah, I don't like this like my most popular video, which is the horror game one

(08:40):
I was editing I was like, bro. This is so bad and cringe and I was just trying to make it like really fast-paced
And I even got tired of doing that
But ended up doing the best, you know, yeah for sure. All right
Uh, well we can catch up next week on that back. What do you think that video is gonna be out? Is that you are we
I'm sorry. I asked you about we where that's our sync video where we all have to okay. Okay, so later this month

(09:05):
So next week, we'll see if you is it fully edited and ready to go or you like halfway through it?
No, it's it's done, but it's like not great. Oh, it's true
It's gonna be it's gonna be out when this episode is off by the way, so you could watch it
Oh, yeah, you could technically yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah this one this episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
I mean 100% yeah, and he ever like every if it's a call to action in that video

(09:29):
This is the fourth oh
Wait, yeah, wait, we're all having brain worms. Yeah maxi. I mean
Yeah, but this is just gonna release after so this episode is yeah, I mean this
Week or something but
No

(09:49):
Yeah
That's why I didn't make a D&D character last night with you all all right
What about you I mean, I'm sorry. Sorry. I don't know if you want to know yeah, what about yeah, what about me?
What about me? I don't know what you've been up to you?
I've disappeared for the past
Two days. Oh, no, you look like you're on the run right now. Yeah, I'm on the run

(10:13):
No, I need to hide my identity right now, so
Um, that's hence the sunglasses. It's fun. Oh, yeah, the mustache
That's what I'm talking about before
Yeah

(10:34):
Just haven't been bothered to shave it but that's nothing really going on honestly
Boring, but I've just been away from gamdev type stuff. What's your last video? Were you doing tutorials?
Yeah, yeah tutorials. I'm kind of moving towards that now
I like helping out like other people and also like I hate editing like Henry so like I get a lot of I

(10:58):
Get a lot of
What he's talking about but in tutorials is a lot different because all you do is just make cuts and and
And really just prepare a script beforehand and do all the coding beforehand and then just
Basically copy and paste and just like explain how it works. Yeah, and I like teaching others as well

(11:18):
But yeah, I don't know I prefer doing that a lot more mainly because of the editing
I feel yeah
I feel like I kind of agree with you if I could ever had to make videos or just be tutorials
But from what I've seen like from my experience the views and the the viewership on that is just not great, you know
It's the opposite for me all my tutorials among my speed videos, so I guess it's just a skilishy, right?

(11:48):
Can you really say that when Barat Studios hit a thousand subs and over here? I don't see Kobe down with a thousand
This is the true rivalry
Um, he's he's close. He's like really I didn't realize it. Yeah, you're like neck and neck. Yeah, you know
I've been releasing a while. It's all that passive income passive like subscribers from my tutorials like literally all my tutorials are just I

(12:11):
Release one like two three months ago and just keeps
Daily rising. That's what I like about them though. I like kind of release it and set and forget
There's no many views
Like 48 hours do you got?
I haven't checked in ages like I've been away from like the YouTube side of things. I love it's like you don't have that memorized
Wow, are you even a youtuber?

(12:32):
I'm not even a youtuber anymore, bro
Max is 2000 right now. His videos is growing up
2k 2k last 48 hours. This is me in real life checking 929 subscribers. Well, okay, I'm actually getting close
Yeah, yeah
Um, like look at all these comments. I haven't even responded to I was like

(12:55):
I'm never gonna ignore a comment and then here I am now ignoring comments
Look how popular I don't even respond to them anymore. I guess I know
So there's not a lot of views in the last 28 days and I'm gonna lie
But how much how much yeah, how much we don't care about that

(13:16):
It's like 7,000 in the last 28 days
Oh
28 oh, I'm a
Okay, yeah, so so in the last 45 48 hours, it's 500 views
Yeah, most of those are from the tutorials. Yeah, and also my tier list video with which people are still mad about

(13:38):
Yeah, I'm mad about that video. Yeah, I feel like for me. I
Only have like one video like working at a time. It's not weird how yeah
I know you mean by working to it's like yeah, this is doing things here. Please don't don't quit video
I want you to go
It's so weird because it is just one video and another video will like start working
And then this video will stop working, you know, and it's sort of like I don't know what YouTube is doing there or if

(14:05):
Yeah, I don't know it's so weird because I don't touch them, you know, I don't like change their titles or thumbnails or anything
Yeah, I upload them can't be bothered
Speaking of touching them
I

(14:27):
Like that though, I like hearing what's going on with you guys because it gives me I don't know
I also haven't seen you guys in like a week. So I don't know it's just nice to catch up
But today. Yeah, I did want to talk about not safe for work games
They're kind of a taboo subject there
They exist in a really weird place in indie game dev
We're not a lot of AAA games are gonna be not safe work just for the nature of who you're selling them to but

(14:49):
How do we feel about not safe for work games meaning do we play them?
Would we buy them? Do we make them? Would we ever make them?
Would we ever make not safe for work content in our games? I play them all the time literally all right now my second monitor
I am constantly gooning. This is gonna be a whole topic. It's just gooning jokes. Okay. Wow. Yeah, you're learning something.

(15:13):
That's all the 10s. The 10s.
W Henry. No, no, no, I you know, it's interesting. I feel like
Every time I go on to steam I
Sometimes I check the popular up and coming and that is full of like NSFW games. You just spelled coming wrong
That's why I

(15:36):
And it's so interesting that it's so full of those games because I I
Forget that steam has like adult games on there, you know, it's me. I mean, yeah
You think they're fine. I mean games there
Why they shouldn't do you think they should have or shouldn't have adult games there?
On steam I feel like there's a case to be made because I feel like a lot of kids like lie about their age

(16:02):
whenever they sign up for
For like websites or whatever
But I also think that steam doesn't have a reputation of hosting NSFW like I forget about it, you know
And I feel like I interact with steam like
More than most people because I'm you know, I'm a game developer. I'm not like constantly buying games

(16:23):
But so I don't think that kids will like go on to steam and go like I'm gonna make an account and pretend that I'm 18
In order to get an adult game just because it doesn't have that reputation. So maybe
Like in terms of safety, I think they're already doing a good job of like mitigating that
but in terms of like what why wouldn't you want to and like in the dog game on steam I

(16:49):
Don't know like why wouldn't you have have like adult films on YouTube, right?
That's different. I think that's you know, that's that's that's sponsor related. So if you start to have adults
Um related just say nudity if you start have nudie on YouTube, what happens that your sponsorships?
drastically fall off a bridge and you'll find that if you go to like porn websites not that I have ever been on one but the ads are all for other

(17:10):
Porn sure right? There's no there's no way like tide's gonna advertise in between a step sister getting stuck in the laundry detergent
What are you doing? Yeah, the thing. Yeah, this is my time
Yeah, it's just the advertisers fall off a cliff there is the big reason but for your steam it doesn't quite work that way
They don't make money on advertising
They make money off selling games so they can sell anything and if not steam then where like is it?

(17:30):
Where do people buy games as a g2a or whatever? Where else can you buy games? No?
I think steam is like the only the only place that you this epic games. There's you be soft
I
Don't know I don't think so but it could be enough
This it's a lot NSFW games. Oh, yes, they do probably yeah

(17:52):
Yeah, let's make one together guys. Yeah
Whenever as well. Yeah, whenever I upload on there on to itch
They always have that little toggle saying like hey does this have NSF? Yeah, that's why you know, I don't search them out
Okay, I don't seek them out. I don't know why you guys would accuse me of
Seeking out NSFW games on itch when I I'm just saying okay

(18:16):
I it is an option there. I do not play them. No one's accusing you mate. I think you
Not allowed pornographic video games
No porn. No porn. How do you feel about that maxi? No porn on
An unreal boycott they argue with the hottest engine around can't have porn on the store

(18:41):
That's why I don't seem like the hottest engine. Yeah, I'm not a jerk off to you any games anyway
I have no idea
Okay, that's weird that will do 18 plus and an AO rating, but there's no um
There's no porn or whatever. That's weird
So all games NSFW because you can't really play games that work anyways. That's a good point

(19:03):
Yeah, we should reword the whole topic fuck right? We do yes
so
Should we reword it to not NSFW but
What should we not say for home or not say for parents around
Parents in terms of I don't know making them. I would I I don't think you know if I'm being honest

(19:27):
I think the thing that attracts me most to making like an NSFW game is like the money because I
Yeah, the money. That's like the only reason I would like want to make one
Um
But even with that, I wouldn't want to be associated with making the non-SFW game
Not because of the shame but because I feel like it closes down opportunities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

(19:49):
Like I don't know if that's true, but it does feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Well, it'd be like if you were like a famous actress and it's like, you know
I'd make a lot of money if you had an old me fans too
And it's like yeah, but it doesn't that change my perception of a thing
I think it's indie game devs. You want to make a cool game. That's really um like inspiring and people look up to it
You don't want to be seen as like us the other like sort of thing. Yeah, that's under the rug basically. Yeah
Yeah, if I had to guess I bet I bet for indie games

(20:11):
That's probably one of the top genres that actually makes money especially across a wide breadth of people
I'm just guessing but it definitely feels like any games have these darlings that just burst out and that's a weird term to use there
they have these
any games have these darlings that are just big giant games that blow up and then
Something that might exist that we don't pay enough attention to do not say for work games
Probably making more consistent money over the long term as opposed to like yeah, they probably blow up to more

(20:36):
They probably like you know blow up more this whole time because fuck
We're trying to like bleep out everything god damn it
This reminds you though like in the artist world you'll have
Famous you know people are trying to make it as art artists in with a patreon or whatever and it's really really hard and then the
Advice is always well
Why don't you just do like furry porn because it's gonna do way better if you just lost up?

(20:59):
Yeah, then those patreon stuff like thousands and thousands of people that just want to yeah
I feel like I hear about that too about like artists like just not being happy with what they're doing because they're you know
Making you know furry porn they have audience capture. Yeah, the audience has captured their income
And now instead of being a wage slave for a company you're kind of being a wage slave for like
I don't know weird people online. I know we are being for yeah

(21:22):
Damn you said it this guy said it. It's not that you know what I did say it fuck it
Off your subscribers are gone
Good
I'm just happy to break through 10k now. We'll just half it. Yeah 10k. It's not even like one tenth of my subscribers as well

(21:46):
I'm just like
Yeah, I have no place to say this. Okay, um, you should do tutorial how to make furry porn video games
That's a good tutorial. Just use AI. Just use AI. Just use AI. Alright, that's fair
I think the interesting thing here is out of all of us maxi. You're the one that that would you said make a
Not safe for work game. Yeah, I don't play safe for not safe for work games

(22:10):
Um, but like if I would have like an idea for a not safe for game and I would want to make it
I don't think the aspect of it being not safe work would like make me not do it. So yeah
Why don't you you could definitely make a lot of money doing it? I think
No, it's just that I don't you know, I don't even know

(22:33):
Like what to do there like I don't have a game idea. That's not safe for work
Except maybe like a shooter where people are naked. I don't know
I was gonna say yeah make like massage simulator 3d or something like that, you know

(22:57):
That's like surgeon like surgery simulator with the hands and you're just like going to the body
Where's the market for like the soft porn not safe for work gaming where it's like you're not really seeing anything
We're like, oh you're touching her back. You're like

(23:17):
Falling off, you know
Stop like right for anything happens. It's like, all right. Well, here's your money next customer. Like
Yeah, that's actually a really good idea having the massage follow
Make that so you're gonna do that. Are you gonna make that?
Me yeah, yeah, I wouldn't do it

(23:40):
If it's funny like that, I think maybe actually I was like a joke
Yeah
Yeah, it's like a soft for like sort of like you not really, you know, it's just like scratching the line
I think that'll be funny to me, but it comes back to how long it takes to make games
It's like I made a joke it took two years my life

(24:00):
And by the time you made it like wondering why like a when or what or how
Seed of the joy quiz plant
And you just like oh my god, I've committed so much time on my
Then you're getting stressed out you're playing the game just to relieve your stress
Sexually and it's the whole thing

(24:20):
Cycle continues I think I'm gonna say under Varus studios. No, oh, yeah, that's true
You're gonna have a second hidden. I I wouldn't yeah
I would have it under a pen name of some site to some sort, but I don't I don't know like I
Yeah
I'm not associated with

(24:42):
I
One of the weird things would not say for games
It feels like there's no gameplay just because of the nature of it
But when max you're describing like a shooter where there's people that are nude in my head
That's not the same right?
It's like it's the purpose of the game to like do a sexual fantasy or is the game a cool game and their sexual elements and
Like you know that that seems like I'd be more interested in a game that was

(25:05):
Like a real game that had some level of nudity says I don't think that that's that had integrity me like oh
It's like a real game like I don't need any part of like film and other parts pieces of art
But for video games you feel so taboo because children play games and then it's like oh gets weird
Yeah, it's interesting. That's a good point
Yeah, cuz there was this one game that I saw on there on the popular upcoming

(25:27):
And it was a it was called like something like siren or something where it looked like a real game
But it just had like like demon women, you know the as people that you're fighting and they were naked like fully naked
Would you be interested in that? It feels fan-servicing. It feels like I don't believe in my game idea
So I put nude women in to stand out, but if there was an artistic reason to do something

(25:52):
It was
Okay, okay, well the reason the reason why I was like it was like in hell so it's like, you know like
Yeah, yeah, what's the what's the idea of that like naked women that
Like a sake this or I don't know suck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the game was called sake this or something

(26:12):
So it's just like a bunch of naked women, but it felt like
Legitimately it felt like it had a lot of style because of it
You know because it wasn't like trying to wait from that nudity aspect
It didn't feel like it was just like oh here's a pretty naked woman like even the character models
They were nude, but they looked ugly, you know, they were like
Like had deformed faces not conventional. What's the name of it? I

(26:37):
Think it might be called sake this I don't remember
I just saw it one time on on or I saw it a couple times on the popular open coming
And it was like months ago
So I don't know if they even if it's even stolen steam or if they released it
I feel like NSFW games tend to my impression without like doing any research is that NSFW games tend to be

(26:58):
Started and then not released, but I guess that's in general so for like indie games
That's like making a porn and it's like there's no ending to it
It's like did you need the ending was it really gonna be closure?
It's like it was just kind of there to do something else the other weird one that blew up
Those isn't really I mean it's not safe for work, right? Is that coffin of Andy and lately lately is that it is?
It's like that one game where it's like it should be incest game has been where it's known for now. Have you heard about this game? I

(27:23):
Guess I didn't blow up that hard, but yeah, it's it's big and it's like it's just weird
I think it's like a relationship type because a story game you make decisions
I think you can make decisions where they basically have an ancestral relationship and like it's 16,000 reviews on steam and
Just blue and 10 out of 10 rating like insanely overwhelmingly positive the crazy

(27:46):
Yeah, but there's like a demand for stuff that's really off the beaten path like that which is just wow
But I mean then you you're definitely known at that point
Is it kid 9 studio at that point? You're definitely notice like you're the incest developer, which is a weird place to be going forward
Yeah, I think yeah, I don't know if I'll go something
Not for I think honestly that massage game would probably be like the most that I would go down in

(28:09):
Terms of like risque content because that incest is weird, right?
It's weird they describe it because that's the thing that blew up in the headlines
But if you read the thing it's it's about like cannibalism. It's it's about weird stuff in another way is to it's just weird that like
The weirdest one is the one that gets put on a headline and then gets labeled or at least that's how I'm labeling it, right?
It feels like as a game maker you yeah, you just want a cool legacy

(28:31):
You don't want a legacy of like anything to cringe or weird
You're gonna stuck with it. Yeah
It kind of goes into like the question of like, you know
No, never mind. I was gonna say like games that we would like to play
Versus like the games that we would like to make, you know, yeah, yeah, that's a way that that works. There are games

(28:52):
Yeah, yeah
Yeah, there are games that we would like to play versus games we would like to make and those don't always line up unfortunately
I think ideally you would want it to right you'd want it to be that they did most of the fun game that you want to make
Would happen to be the game that you're playing when you're not in this game dev mode, but I don't think it works that way most of the time
So what's our deal going to make them not an MMO? That's for sure. Even though they're fun to play sometimes, right?

(29:16):
That's like insta out for most people. I would like to play
like
Far Cry games are you like Far Cry games and
I would also like to make them but I that fits what you do. It's like an open world first-person shooter
Yeah, is it open world? Yeah. Yeah, well, what about is no world, but yeah, um, but Far Cry. Yeah, Far Cry is like

(29:36):
I like playing first-person shooters and I'd make a first-person shooter. I obviously couldn't make like a Far Cry game myself
You couldn't
This guy's just responding with kindness
We don't know how to engage with that. Like why is it gonna be a nice?

(29:59):
I think it's interesting because I feel like the type of games that I would like to play and
like to make I think are like completely different because um,
I feel like I enjoy making systems, you know, and I hate level design. I hate doing that
You know, I would I would hate to like
Have a game where I have to like build out a whole level or a whole world for it

(30:20):
But I like playing those types of games like open world games. I think are fun
Um, but I think the thing that I enjoy having most is like something that I'm working on right now
This is that that merchant game where you have like a eyes and like systems working together
Um, but I don't I also don't really play those types of games either like like economy systems or like simulators
Like it's not a big I like I played them a couple times

(30:42):
But it's not something that I like actively go into you should make it where you make a system that creates the level for you
almost like procedural terrain generation almost as if I have a tutorial
specifically for that
Uh, but it's very limited 2d tile map. Go check it out top right

(31:04):
There now I'm just gonna write
Shameless plug shameless plug. Okay. No, but seriously, I think you would be the type of person to
to enjoy doing like a
procedural terrain generation and I think there was a lot of cool games where they get the environment
And procedurally or randomly generated or something like that. I feel like in order to do that like in order to do that well

(31:30):
I mean, I can do procedural generation right now with like simple just like
random numbers, but I feel like
In order to have like a well structured out level, uh, you have to like go step further than that like lethal company, right?
I feel like they don't really have a strong
Uh procedural generation like last time we played because you could get spawned into locations where you just

(31:51):
Can't get out of you know
Oh, yeah, that's that's to do with like, um, the teleporter, but yeah, no, there are there are definitely issues in that
Yeah, yeah, just like small issues
Well, I don't know if they're small like I think uh, there have been times where
We could not progress through the through the game just because the way was blocked or there was like a

(32:15):
Or door without a key, you know, so it's sort of like, you know, maybe
Oh
Maybe it's just the case that we just couldn't find the key, but also I feel like there's a lot of times where
There's just like inaccessible parts of the game because of the procedural generation
and I feel like you can
build around that with like an nav mesh system

(32:35):
But also I feel like that's just taking into account like one aspect of the procedural
It's just like I'm just saying like the whole thing is just like more difficult to do procedural
good
and
I wouldn't know how to how to approach that. I'm sorry
Feels like procedural terrain
A procedural generation of any content just feels like you're giving up like

(32:56):
That amazing hand guided quality control for just like way more replayability way more content
I don't know if that trade-off's worth it
I think as we do more of it in the indie space because I think it really helped the indie space
But I think as we do more of it, we sort of value it a little bit
We're like, uh, it isn't kind of more nice to have something
It's like how we yeah, we like we like to feel a little bit more guided. I think as players
Yeah, I had a couple notes here for

(33:18):
uh
Dude game genres you want to make first game genres that you can make is so tricky and here's part of the problem is that um
I think
We've gotten such great tools as game developers
Uh for certain things in game making and certain things game making can look as good as a AAA studio
Instantaneously very quickly very very quickly. Um, one of those might be environment design or how we'll see Unreal Engine have amazing models and lighting

(33:41):
Look looks super super good. But one that has never caught up that is just always missing is storytelling mechanics, especially with high production value
Um, yeah, you can throw text on screen and have a little silhouette of a character
But if you want characters acting and doing voiceovers, um as an indie game developer
It's so out of your reach for the most part. It feels like just a bad way to go
Um, so that's a genre that I typically like

(34:04):
Some of my favorite games ever are really heavy story driven games with voice acting and as a game developer
I'm like never making that not by myself. It's not happening. I feel like that's a problem of
uh perceived difficulty rather than actual difficulty because I feel like there's a ton of resources for
for you to like make that and also there's a bunch of

(34:26):
Uh beginning voice actors that would love to work on a game, you know, like a story driven game
like you could definitely find these actors for you know and do some sort of like a
Uh, profit share revenue share system. There's some truth to that you could but then it feels like
The stuff we're used to seeing that really sells it looks great is like mo capped, right?
And then what's really gonna happen is you're probably gonna have like your games gonna look like Fallout

(34:48):
Um, three where it's like two characters standing and a cut see like I'm like, okay
Or whatever fault me this is whatever, you know, I mean it's gonna look very stiff and it's not gonna be the same thing
just because you don't have
I hear you saying though
There are probably our voice actors that would be dying to work to have something to do um
And that are in the community that would like to do it, but but it feel yeah from the outside looking at it
It feels kind of spooky. Um, one thing I will say it's possible, but I think it's very complicated

(35:10):
Yeah, right does it feel way more complicated? I would never I'm very
Want to get into that just because I don't think it's worth it. Yeah
And you have to take a lot of chances telling stories too on top of all that on top of all the production advice
of this tricky, what if you just had a bad story?
Yeah, bro this game has given a cool voice acting, but I don't know they were just like talking about uh

(35:31):
Gooning for
If you control f on the script gooning comes up more often than
Then you might think
One genre I'm happy exists now
Because one of my favorite genres ever to play um is rpgs
I think rpgs is what I'm targeting when I talk about character interactions because you could have a story based games

(35:52):
It was linear, but as soon as you start doing side quests and all this stuff. It just seems so like oh my god overwhelming
Um, even even not even the content stuff aside how it all doesn't it can't break
Meaning that you can go do a side quest and you're managing these other quests. There's all these systems seems incredibly complex
and one game that created a genre that I think
Answers scratches my itch for all the rpg stuff, but seems doable as in uh developer and indy dev

(36:15):
Um is the soul-like franchise. Um, even if you took the hardness out and you didn't like how cripplingly difficult that game was
Um, I do but if you didn't the idea that like the side quests are just like you go off and do a thing
Like there's just an cool environment in a hidden wall and like in previous games
It'd be like you talk to a guy and then it brings up a thing and you have to like read through a thing and find a thing
It's like no no just go play the game and the game will

(36:36):
Give you content and I feel like it it short circuited a lot of those things and I wonder if they had
I wonder what their production value was on that first demon souls because
Like literally like the only voice acting is just people doing monologues like there's no two people talking
It's only one person talking to a player that can't talk back
And I think that makes it a lot easier to have your voice actors like kind of kill their role because it's like
I don't need to have chemistry with anyone. It's just I'm just gonna say the lines and I'm done

(36:58):
but
Yeah, so I'm happy um souls likes exist. It's interesting you brought that up because I feel like uh
I just don't like that type of storytelling. I feel like it's so weak and very like hard to get into
From the player perspective and I feel like a lot of players
Uh, I feel like it's interesting for for souls souls world games because I feel like a lot of players

(37:20):
Who like story like diving into that it's sort of like the story is as difficult to get into as like the combat in the game
Does that make sense? It does make sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to like actively do the work to get the story
Which is cringe. I think I want to hear a story. Yeah
I'm the type of
A person who plays games who like just doesn't care about the story. I've never been one for a story game

(37:46):
And I don't know if that's weird or not because I know a lot of people are
Um, but yeah, I've never played any sort of souls games. I've never played any sort of
Far cry like all of these games
I've never played a kind of like stick to very like non-story based games kind of competitive games
and stuff like that
It's just what I have more fun playing. I guess but I don't know

(38:08):
Have you ever thought about making a competitive base game then? That's what you'd like to play. Yeah
like I would probably
Then be more inclined to make a competitive style game or like a game that doesn't require a lot of story
Just because I myself are not like familiar with that. I don't have the experience of playing a game
So I don't know what would make a good story in that certain case

(38:29):
So I guess in that like certain specific case you could say that the types of games I play are the types of games
I like to make but it is very broad
Like the story or not story is a very broad kind of category, but in general
I think I would say I like to make games that I also enjoy playing
Because when I test my game, it's like I'm playing a game that I enjoy and like I have visions

(38:54):
Or things I would like to see in a game similar to this
I'm so confused when you say that because when you said well, okay
The Dark Souls example that you gave maybe I can see that more
But it's just like difficult to get into that story, but I feel like the Far Cry games are very
They have stories, but I feel like the stories like even people that
Yeah, I don't give a shit about the story when I play a Far Cry

(39:17):
Well, it's not just that. I see the thing is no no no, it's not it's not just that
It's it's the fact that I feel like
The story is just there to to put you into the next scenario
Like I feel like that's the case for a lot of games, but I feel like especially for Far Cry
It's like now the story is like there, but you know, I just do whatever and we'll fill in the the the scenes between with a

(39:40):
story
I feel like yeah, if a game has a cutscene, I don't play it
Like that's the level like if a game has a cutscene. I don't play it. Are you fucking serious?
Yeah, well, that's why I'm saying like what kind of games do you play? That's why I was gonna ask
I better put a cutscene in my game. I don't want to lose a fucking potential customer here. Yeah

(40:02):
I don't know I think um
The zoomer, it's not like I'm biased towards it
It's just like the type of games that I enjoy playing and like not the type of games that have story
You want to play a game where your phone's here and you can just scroll through tiktok and then
Yes
Up here
And then down below is temple run you you probably like the fruit game. Oh my god

(40:26):
I heard it's getting loop boxes soon
And you've been into the company laura as well, right? Is that like isn't that like a story?
laura is kind of different because it's like hidden story. It's not like cutscenes or anything
There's no character dialogue
It's like if it's law that's like I play a lot of games with law, but like I feel like story and law and definitely

(40:49):
Quite different. Yeah
Yeah, I want to circle back a little bit to what henry said too because you said he was kind of dumb
The amount of effort you have to put into dark souls to get the story feels like the amount of effort you have to take
To beat the game. It's like just it's cripplingly hard for no reason
What I think is kind of cringe is that some people will be like the dark souls story is so good, man
You don't understand. It's like it's not there's taking no chance
I mean the story might be good underneath whatever but if you don't present your story at all to your players

(41:10):
You can't really be like I have the best story ever just read there's a description on a hat over here
And then if you look talk to this NPC, he's looking south and that translates to where he should be
It's so dumb like it's a big game theory
Yeah, and it also it takes all the onus off of the creator because now the creator doesn't go like
Oh, I try to tell you a story and I didn't I didn't tell you they go like oh
Well, it was there. You didn't find it right? You don't have to they don't get to fail because it's like they don't take ownership over the bad

(41:34):
Telling of a story
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I I heard this I don't know if this is true
But I I read this somewhere where I heard like the creator of the who what's a guy's name?
Dark Souls? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's something Miyazaki or something Miyazaki. Yeah. Yeah
He's not the same guy that makes some movies, right? No, no, it's a breath. It's popular last name. Okay. Um, he said that he

(41:57):
Well, okay, I just read it somewhere. I don't know if it's true
But he said that he grew up like reading a lot of like Dungeons and Dragons books
But he didn't like really understand English too well
So he could only pick up some words but in his mind it was like he was he was reading about this story
But didn't really fully understand everything and his like mind created this like huge
Imaginative world just off of like little bits and pieces that he was that feels like yeah

(42:21):
Yeah, yeah, and he said that he wanted to recreate that in in like his games that he makes
He nailed that then because that's exactly what it is
And I think that's a cheat code that they use in a triple a game that you can use as an indie developer
It's like instead of creating this crazy story and making your audience like see the story
It's like just make them do it in their brain make their imagination find it and I think Dark Souls does it all the time
It's like, yeah, the world used to be different. It's like, can I see that like no, what do you mean?

(42:44):
It's like, well, I'm just telling you it used to be cool. I'm like, okay
I guess up here it used to be something I can see that it's a place to kill people now
But like no one in Dark Souls ever like, you know
Goes to sleep in a house ever like that doesn't exist anywhere in that world. It's all the lapidated crazy people fighting each other
Yeah, yeah
It's interesting that I feel like horror horror
Media in general like games and stuff. I feel like really benefit from that like the the horror

(43:10):
Thing is like more scary when you don't see it. I feel yeah
Yeah, and whenever they do end up showing it it's sort of sometimes a lot of times I feel like it's like oh that wasn't as
You know scary or or
Oh, yeah, for sure, especially the production value isn't there and you're like, oh, it's scarier in my head
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of wish that they just would have not shown it

(43:31):
And I think that kind of story would be interesting to have like a horror game
But not have any like monsters or something like shiro up like very like up fronts
I think that'll be a last little caveat to this and I think this is really really super interesting
I was just saying how there's no good tools or very few good tools for indie game developers to do like mo capping voice acting
Oh, that's not just really hard for indie game devs to do it

(43:52):
But indie game devs have this great
ability to do environmental art and it's funny because if we look at games that are really telling cool stories in 3d spaces
A lot of what they're doing is doing cool environment art
And then your brain does it for you
But that makes sense because those are the tools that we have as indie game developers
So we can make cool environment environmental art stories and it maps on to like where we're proficient the things we're strong on
So it's just it's cool that we see that play out in something like lethal company even

(44:15):
I think it's spooky when you want to play something that doesn't sell in the indie space
Although it's funny because some of the best genre for
Steam games is like always strategy and I don't think any of us really play or want to make strategy games
um, that's cap respectfully
elder is right there um
Can I just say

(44:35):
That I actually really enjoy strategy games and like
You can't do that. It's gonna fuck everything up
fucks
God damn anyways, I enjoy playing strategy games
I enjoy if you could like making them if you could make any game and it's like

(44:56):
Not um, you know, you're not limited with money or something or you can employ people
What do you want like for other you could like um
Have employees for all the things you don't like to make yourself and stuff like that
Would you make the games you
want to play or would you
Still make different games
Probably make the best selling games because I'm making I've got employees money. I'm company isn't an issue

(45:23):
Oh, so I like
Money is an issue. You're just like not just like some rich person
Like if I'm if I'm not making the game, then why would I
I guess
Tell people to make games that I enjoy making if I have no like creative
Or I'm telling people what to do, but like I'm not actually making the games myself
I don't know it just runs a point at that point

(45:44):
Um, I'm just a leader. I mean you can still make the stuff you want to make yourself
Like if you want to make that pretty much you can do that, but
You know if you don't want to you can just
Um, okay, that's how tell somebody to do it and they'll do it
I mean that would be nice, but like to a point it feels like it's not your game anymore

(46:06):
and that's really important for like
making
A game in general especially for indie developers to have a game that's yours and not like like a lot of other people's like
The question is would you make would you make the game that you want to play?
if you
could like that
Oh, um

(46:28):
Yeah, just to answer the question. I think
yeah
I don't know here's the here's the story here's the situation. All right, unless you got something because I would love to answer that
Yeah, um, I think what's really happening
You're saying if I have like infinite money and people that are gonna work for me and I can make anything
I want I'm gonna make the game that I think is fun to work on that
I'm gonna actually enjoy even if it's not the greatest thing to play or I'm gonna make the game that's like

(46:49):
Hey, this thing is the most fun to play. It was a nightmare to make but holy fuck is it fun to play or you know
My favorite game style to play
I think the truth is somewhere in between those two things
But what's more important besides how fun something is to make is I think it's tempting to say
I would just make the game that I love to play the most
But then I'm what am I just gonna make Ocarina time again? I don't I don't want to remake stuff that already exists
That's already out there that I could be playing right now instead of working on stuff

(47:12):
So I think the true answer is if you really had a great budget and people that want to work for you
What I would love to do is take some time and prototype something that I thought was a spin-off of something cool
And different enough that I could make something unique in the space. It's like no one has this and this thing is interesting
Um, I think after is it into the breach developers they did uh, is it FTL?
I think those are the same guys and I think in between games they prototype for like a year or something crazy like that

(47:33):
Where they were just making a thing and threw it away and they had a budget and it was I think it's a team of two guys
But they had a budget of being like we're not um, gonna die here. We have a income we can survive
What is the actual interesting gameplay mechanic that we can make that doesn't exist already?
And I think that's the way you should be looking at it if you really had like infinite time to do something
It's a spin-off of a job you like but interesting and unique enough where you're not just gonna

(47:54):
Copy something you've done before or someone else has done before I never prototype. I hate prototyping
I think that's what we do for game jams. I feel like we're doing some prototyping because we never come back to them
You never but that's different. No, it's like a challenge. Yeah, that's like a challenge that you're trying. Yeah, I agree with that
That's true
Um, and also like I feel like at the end of a game gem like I have a completed

(48:15):
Game like it's not like all this needs to be built upon more. I mean it could be it's not an unfinished model or anything
Yeah, yeah, it's like I'm not doing it for and sometimes even the games themselves are
not conceptually good
I agree with you 100% actually and I don't really do much prototyping in the in the terms of like I have a project
Let's make let's prototype and then maybe throw it away and maybe iterate

(48:38):
But don't you feel that it would be more pressure to if you had a team and money where it's like, okay
Hold on guys before we commit to something here. Let me because I would I don't normally do protein
But I think that would change me. I'd be like we should be prototyping
I think it's definitely a problem on my end, but I feel like prototyping is like a waste of time
But I feel like there is so much
data and like case studies to the contrary

(48:58):
that
uh
It's just a holdup that I have
but I feel like
Whenever we
Prototype something or like whenever you like try to prototype an idea for a game
It's sort of like can't you like just in like tell by the thought of it, but it's like whether something's not
Maybe it wouldn't even be the light little prototyping where I'm writing it all down on a piece of paper and then potentially

(49:19):
Throwing it all away just being like can we just think of through a game mechanic with this that into this that?
I've heard a lot of people what they'll do is they'll take I think slay the spire was this way
They made it into like a really simple card game first because it's just way easier to do that and test things that way
Then to code everything do art for everything
But if you have some paper you can play it with a friend or something and be like yeah, this works. This is a fun game
I think I was leaning to something like that
I wouldn't be want to be sitting here behind a computer for a week and then being like all right delete that like

(49:42):
We're getting nightmare
Yeah, if does feel like a big waste of time potentially like code stuff
Whatever like even if it's like poorly coded or whatever
Even if you save some of the code and you don't throw it all away
Just the idea that it's like your heart's not totally in it. It's like there's just a prototype. It's like shut up like it feels so dumb
Yeah, but I feel like there's a lot of people that like
Really like tout that as like a very important part in the game. It is a very important part

(50:06):
I told you I told you yesterday just recently. I made a boss fight for world of under
um
You know in the city in the cost level
and
it's like
I think it was it was a cool idea, but I wasn't 100 percent sure about it
So I tried to make it as simple as possible just to see if the general concept of it works and

(50:27):
Uh, turned out it didn't so I saved a lot of time
by prototyping it I feel
I don't think that's prototyping
I feel like you're in the process of developing your game, right?
And sometimes things just won't work out
I feel like prototyping is different in the fact that you even if it does work out you plan on never using that that uh
That code or like the the the thing that you're working on. I mean, yeah, I'm gonna I'm not gonna

(50:53):
No, no, I think that that's like I've I've just used like
I didn't
I just use some some character model for the boss and I used some
You know placeholder
animation and stuff like that and just
Made like the bare minimum to see if the mechanic
will work

(51:14):
Um, I think that's that's prototyping. I think so too. I think so too
Maybe maybe it is
You just have to be some level of like um, let's just go
It's almost like let's just go slowly because we jump in it's gonna be and it's a failure
It's gonna be devastating. Um, and there's more writing on us too in that way where it's like
It's gonna be devastating for the game
It's gonna be bad you have to redo stuff and then whatever video I was gonna make about this now that's gone

(51:37):
It's like a house of cards or dominoes of things that start to fall apart
First of all, you just go slow and you like I think I see the video coming together. This is the fight. It's gonna be something like yeah
I feel like in general also
I feel like I don't cut a lot of contents out of stuff that I make but also I feel like I haven't really made like a
sizable project ever
so
That can be a part of it too. Yeah, that feels scary for me right now. I'm sure maxi feels the same way when you have a big project

(52:04):
As you add more and more to it
It just becomes this bigger like nest egg of an investment when you're making the small game jams
Uh, yeah at the end of the day. It's nice that you can walk away
Yeah, I feel scary the more you name a gas
I think that's why I don't have a steam wishlist thing because it feels like once that's there
It's like all right now you have a game people know about it
They find it here and if you walk away then it feels like failure but until then it's like I was working on that project

(52:27):
But you know you never know
But is that why bro? You should definitely have a steam page
It feels like a big spotlight and you just want to make sure that you're putting a spotlight on something that is worth seeing
Which I know nothing dramatically is going to change from now and if I add in a fish gun
But it feels good to work on it doesn't feel good to I mean you just collect wishlist. All right. Well, why don't you do that?

(52:48):
Yeah, I think yeah 100 percent your game is like already to a point. I think it's wait
Well, the scary thing is it's a mistake not to after after video does well because you can't retroactively be like
Oh, yeah, here's the wishlist, right? I mean no you really can't yeah
So having videos to do 100,000 or whatever. It's like well now. I wish yeah, I wish it was on that
It's not so like okay. Hopefully another video does well and I'm prepared then

(53:10):
Why don't you why don't you do that?
I am the type of person where I just want to work on something for like my biggest downfalls
I would sit in a room and work
until
The the project that I was working on was so lost and forgotten that it was to my detriment like I'm that type of person
I like I like to build and make it make it better, but um
God, it's it's just hard to put a pin in it and go. All right. Let's let's say enough is enough

(53:31):
Yeah, and do the stuff the process of making the game viable like sellable and all that yeah
It feels like you're doing good when you're working on the content
And it feels like you're signing off on it when you're doing something like making a steam page
It's hard to sign off it. Oh, sorry. It's hard to really sign off on that kind of stuff
You should I think you definitely should I mean I think
Maybe if you do that, I feel like it will help you not to do that

(53:54):
You know if you make a steam page, it will help you not like procrastinate on like release, you know
Yeah, and I think that's why the game gems worked so well for me
Is it forced me to to grapple with the problem I have with saying this is this is the time frame?
So I was like, all right, I will crunch this time
But when it's done it's and then I've never gone back to any of those games because part of me is like fucking
I was done with it. Do you have a like planned release date for your game? No

(54:17):
Or like any but I don't want to take uh, I think
Uh, it feels like I'm taking a slingshot and pulling it back and every time I pull it back
I'm like, I really hope this doesn't break because uh, you're adding more content and you're building out
But I'm letting it go for me with getting a gameplay loop and feeling like
I have something um once that's there. I'll know time frame way better
But but until that's there it feels like I am this weird half prototypy state

(54:39):
Or it's like let's try to add this as a solid mechanic to the game and maybe that's a pillar
Nothing has been nothing has crumbled none of those pillars have crumbled but
Uh, it doesn't give me a good time frame for things it all feels too amorphous
I would a year to two years right and that's probably way too short
It's probably way too short for game dev
But I think it's too long. I think it's too long. It's a long time

(55:01):
That's too long. I know but people people say as long as you think it is just double that so that I'm like
Well one year so maybe two but that just doesn't feel like
I don't know
I don't want you to feel small but
Yeah, yeah, keep this keep it don't over scope the
That's it. You just wanted to say that that's what he's doing right now. He's taking his time saying the word too

(55:23):
Don't over scope the game. He's like sing song in it
Don't over scope it
but no no I seriously um, yeah like
How far in how many months are you into development?
It's so hard to really gauge that because I was learning to code the whole time
But I started about a year ago
And then I did six months of game jams and during those game jam times like I wasn't really doing

(55:47):
I do like a week of work in a month and the other week would be on the game jam
And another week would be on doing videos week and a half. Yeah, so it was it was a lot less work than I do now on it
Yeah, it definitely is really daunting like when you're working on your game
It feels like you should add so much more and I guess it just creeps creeps in from the sides when you're like not realizing it because you're so used to

(56:10):
some
Version of your game that you're working on right now and you're just focused on what to add next what to add next
And you don't actually realize like how much you've already added and then like at that point you're just trying to pack in so much
into one small space
um
And that you don't want to be spending like another two years

(56:31):
On you don't want to be like having a three-year project as well. I can
On just like an indie game
You don't maybe zeth does have you ever thought about that? Maybe I do as I shake my head. No
I don't
I mean like I don't think anyone
Want to like spend three years on the same thing like I wouldn't have that much commitment like to do that

(56:54):
I'll get bored of it honestly
I think I would I think I would want to work on a project for that long not not my first project
But I think definitely like longer projects are the goal right for me
For me personally like to to be able to like sit down and like work on something for an a really extended period of time
After having like this this

(57:16):
You know foundation of success with like money and whatever to to be able to do that. I think
That's
You would want that no. Yeah, no, but this is zeth's first like
major
Game right you've just the tricky part is we're all doing it all for free
So Henry you're totally right if I was coming off of a successful like all right

(57:38):
We can do a thing we can budget it but it's when you're working at like
Yeah, a job you don't want to work and you're trying to get your life on the right path
You're like you kind of the back of head you think like the longer it takes you release a thing the longer you're in this holding state of
Claiming to be a game developer with no games out like oh that feels like a bad place to be even if it was a not so great game
I mean it's a really bad game that does feel still bad
But yeah, you want to cross that finish line sooner than later if you've done nothing, right?

(58:03):
Hmm. Yeah, this is true. Yeah, this is how I feel right? What about um maxi? What about your game?
What about the time frame on that you have a hard date? Are you still coming closer and closer? You know
uh, I haven't like
Set up how publicly yet, right? I don't remember. Oh, you don't have to yeah
um, but it's like
Sometime later this year. I will found it's gonna be released

(58:27):
and I already four months in
Yeah, so fast and and I have like you know in my notion. I have like a timeline where I can see like
Where I'm mapped out how long what will take so
every time I look at that
um, it's like really hard to procrastinate and do other other stuff
because

(58:48):
You know, I can see that if I don't don't finish this part in time. I would be able to you know
You have it sounds like you have an anxiety chart. You're like if I look at this it gives me anxiety and then I go back to work
Like that sounds healthy. No, it is healthy completely normal. That's life though
Like that's life everyone's got something like that in their life whether it be like work

(59:12):
related school related or you know something like that. They've got like an assignment G
Or they got a deadline at work
You know, I think it helps
I feel I feel like if I had a structure where I owe somebody for it to me, but I disagree with you max
I feel like so easy to
procrastinate even with the timeline, but I think that's just different. So what if what if you would look at your phone and

(59:35):
It helps you like 150 days
To release your game, right? You know, I would be like I got time. I got 150 days
He needs Henry's an app that says like one day till tomorrow. He's a poor day
Oh 24 hours
All right

(59:56):
Chaos in Henry's life. All right, we need like a lecture shot
Like if you don't put three lines of code down the next 10 minutes where she was giving you like a call
Even then I got I got nine more minutes. I'll put it off. Yeah, I do I do feel like me personally
I feel like comfort is like the
the like

(01:00:17):
the
The the opposite not the opposite but the reason for
procrastination because if you're like
In a good spot where not a good spot, but like just comfortable enough where you like can just continue drifting
I feel like I will drift, you know
Um, I think that's bad. Maybe I should uh

(01:00:38):
I told maxi this before but I like if I had a kid I would definitely like be so much more productive
I had somebody that I had to take care of
Get on the facebook
Marketplace, yeah, I think I like
No, that's not like you're buying a kid. I'm sure they sell them. Yeah, that's fine. Well guys, I think we've drifted

(01:01:00):
Speaking of drifted we've drifted pretty far off topic here
But uh, I think we covered a lot of great stuff and I think we've been going for just about an hour or so
Um, so unless I even think we want to add I don't think making games is is a wacky experience
We're all sort of just like rambling about how fucking nightmarish it's been sometimes
Um, I guess I think we should release this podcast

(01:01:25):
What the fuck up
God damn it. It's a more casual one and I like the casual ones. I feel like we just get to talk about our lives sometimes
Anyway, thank you guys for watching. My name is mzf on youtube. We have henry vera studios
Kobe uh, kobi dev and maxi maxi dev and i'm sure you guys are all gonna never talk to me again, but thanks for

(01:01:47):
Thanks for watching
All right guys