"Is sportswashing bad?" EliGE isn't good enough and cadiaN to FaZe shouts

In this week's episode — Sam and Jack discuss the latest and greatest roster moves, as well as a few rubbish ones. EWC is over, which saw everyone's sweethearts TheMongolz take the W, and Sam educates us all on why sports-washing is actually good! (yikes)

Our take(s) of the week cause quite the stir, and HLTV's new Rating 3.0 system is teared a new one.

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Chapters
00:00 – Intro - iM lauNX drama + FUT sign lauNX
05:29 – GentleMates sign IberianSoul roster
11:30 – Complexity exit the scene
13:22 – prosus rejoins BIG
19:45 – FaZe bench EliGE, sign jcobb
32:30 – mibr bench safe
32:45 – Take of the week
38:55 – HLTV Rating 3.0 discourse
52:01 – Take of the week 2: Electric boogaloo
01:07:00 – EWC Review
01:11:21 – BLAST London preview
01:13:00 – Outro

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
So, Jack. Hi, Sam.
Why fright? A few years ago there was, it
was a rather big tournament in, in Brazil and you played, you
know, really well in the running.
I think you probably played wellthere as well.
I don't know. I'm not looking that far.
I don't care enough. And everyone thought you were
going to be really good. And then your career kind of

(00:21):
came to nothing. The other guy on the team is now
on a good team. You're not.
And eventually you get onto a team with some potential, but
the most famous player from youryour country then shits on you
on Twitter. What would you do?

(00:42):
I don't know. I'd, I'd, I'd be quite upset, I
imagine. Would you?
Yes. I think that makes you a bitch.
I can't lie. We we know this, this is this is
true. I'm a bit of a bitch.
But anyway, for those unaware, because I wasn't aware that this
happened until Jack told me. Lanx.
Lanx. I think Lanx, that's what I'm in

(01:04):
my headcount and it's. Lanx.
OK, so Lanx has signed for Foot,which is funny for a reason
we'll talk about in a moment. But Emma, who's from my
experiences, a very chill guy who doesn't seem like he'd go
out there looking to chat shit to anyone, Yeah, replied to
Lawrence's tweet about it sayingsince they still believed in

(01:26):
you, I think it's better to respect them in real life also,
not only in online. It just seems that's, yeah,
that's in response to Lawrence'squite polite and candid
departure post, I guess. Yeah.
Thank you for leaving me when noone else did so.
It's. Curious.

(01:48):
It's a little strange, right? He likes is also one of the
like, you know, 50 players that's played the Falcons at
some point, isn't he? Yeah.
Wasn't he on the team before they signed I?
Think he was on the was he on the team twice exactly?
I think he was. Didn't he join like Chassaud's
bleed for a little bit? Yeah, it looks like he did,

(02:09):
Yeah. Yeah, but like Sprout era,
right, this is during the Rio major is.
What I was referring to, yeah, the Rio major.
He's he's sort of like being oneof those names like like you
hear him about and like, you know, there's a European team
and there's like doing the one here too.
He tends to be on it like he's kind of what been about.
Do you know what I mean? It's a strange thing where him

(02:30):
and Stare were meant to be like,really, really good.
I'm not convinced Stare has lived up to his potential
either. No has made it clear quite a few
times. Think it's a bit of a bum but
like you look at Lance's ratings. 1.13 pretty solid.
That is 3.0 though, which we'll.Get to.
But we'll briefly talk about that in in a little bit because

(02:53):
I ain't spending too much time on anything to do with HLTV.
Yeah, I'm interested in what that thread is, but we'll get to
that later. It's it's one of them where I
feel like it's a, it's a good move for foot really, because I
mean like. Let's see who they're replacing,
right? It is Misuta.
Yeah, Misuta, who is rubbish like.

(03:15):
Context obviously. So if you don't know, Foot
signed the Navi junior corps with Mikazi remaining or rather
moving on to the Navi main team replacing JL.
So that four goes on my foot wholike maybe a month before like
signed the team of like Misuta and Jax and like a bunch of kind
of old watch friends bums love Jax, but he's not very good

(03:36):
anymore. Scream is on their bench,
apparently. So there we go.
Yeah, yeah, that's a team. OK that is a team in it but like
fucking 6 is the top of your score if.
Devin Avec is still playing out of Strike in 2025.
That's crazy. Yeah, You mean he's not playing?
Is he actually he? Had a .80, sorry.

(03:57):
No, don't worry, Don't worry. Keep.
Let's keep going. No, no, it's fine.
Keep going. Yeah.
So obviously Masuda was like, they're like, oh, I guess we'll
roles make sense. We'll keep him I'm sure they
were like we're going to sign lounge by the way, but like we
we need 5 for X&Y tournament that was probably happening I.
Just yeah, I don't know why theyever stuck by me because he's

(04:18):
fucking rubbish, but. Love Junior were one of the
like, well definitely one of thebest Tier 2 teams in the world.
So if they did lose their best player, I think Lounge is
probably not as good as Picasi, but I don't think he's bad.
No, he's he's definitely not. And I guess the key thing is
that he he once looked like he could be as good as McCarthy is
now. So if you can get him back to a

(04:40):
like 75% of that level, maybe wedon't see them drop off too
hard. But like without McCarthy, of
course they are. They are dropping off.
Demons pretty good, right, but like I think the other got the
other three are kind of all right.
I think demo's like probably like the other star in that
team. So it's it's kind of we'll see.

(05:05):
You know, we'll wait and see. And if it doesn't work, at least
they've got scream on their bench.
Screams. We've done some crazy rosters,
you know? It really has, and we're not
going into them. So, Charlie.
Like. No, play the music.
Just play the fucking music. OK, so I've just been told that

(05:33):
Jack's going to do a French accent for this story.
Therefore, Jack, please read outthe news.
Salute a little bit at the Say Savec Ibelian Soul roster.
Come see, come SA. Well, that was fucking dreadful.
Let's not do that. Let's not do that again.

(05:55):
Yeah, so. When you read general mates do
you not say genitals ever? I think it does seem like a
euphemism, yeah. Yeah.
Like. Just genital mates.
There's something, there's something definitely
inappropriate about gentle mates.
Like they are, you know, yeah, they're like The Beatles where

(06:16):
they're definitely hiding what was going on in their dressing
room and they're all there like slamming all their psychedelics
and whatnot. Someone was sucking someone
else's knob. I'm just saying there's nothing
wrong with it. Which Beatle was sucking?
There's John. There's John.
John and Ringo, probably. They were both or John.

(06:38):
John to Ringo. Up to you.
That would my my guess would have been John to Ringo, but I
think Paul's just kind of there.Like I can't do an accident but
like well done lads, just shooting them on.
The boss just in the corner, planning fate.
Yeah, and George is George is probably dead at this point.

(06:58):
Or what I. Don't know.
And being replaced by a clone orwhatever that fucking theory is
anyway. Counter Strike.
Yeah. So Iberian Soul, which is that
same mother star. Risers line that was koi.
That was rubbish and then good for a.
Cologne, they did good at a clone with some pious yeah, and
then they and. Then they benched some players

(07:21):
and then Alex went and like stank it up on Nip and
eventually. I forgot about that.
Yeah, Martinez was on. For a while, yeah, yeah.
And anyway, eventually they realized that they're actually
pretty rubbish, but they're Better Together.
Kind of like rubbish together, yeah.
Kind of like sore and like Aurora, they've also done it.

(07:43):
Yeah. But anyway, so they're now I'll
be in Seoul and actually somehowhave been doing really well.
Like if you actually look up their record, which is is pretty
reasonable in recent months, it kind of looks the same as it did
before that Cologne, where before that Cologne they

(08:04):
wouldn't. I think it was DreamHack Open
Valencia or something like that.Or I guess it would have been
challenging them, right? Yeah, probably.
Oh, it was Cologne 22 I think. Wasn't it 20 season they had the
semi? Finals or quarter final run,
Yeah. Yeah, either way, like they're
they're back to the point that they can be where they can be

(08:25):
one of the top Tier 2 rosters. And they also, you know, it says
it says there on the on the story on the screen like they're
just outside of the major qualification zone.
They could feasibly get in it because yeah, I mean, sorry,
just. Just readings they won epic LAN.

(08:46):
Yeah, well. That's how they did.
OK which smoo you are standing in?
So. Well.
That's upsetting. Yeah, I've got my own thoughts
on I I know it's it's it's a thing that no, I was going to
say to me, I was going to say having teams outside the UK in
Epic and outside of the US in frag, because I think it's a

(09:07):
shame for both, but that that doesn't matter.
Like, I'm not going to criticizea team for.
It's VR S s fault again. But I I don't think should have
anyway. Pretty smart pick up from
gentlemates. Actually a good place to enter
CS with because if you remember a lot they're.
Not going to cost what a major Ross it will cost, right?

(09:28):
Well, yeah, you can. You can probably get.
Them there, yeah, yeah. And then get single money.
So yeah. But if you remember, I think it
was close to the start of the year, there was a report from
Nell, I want to say it was that gentlemates were.
Asked That was a weird team, right?
Sui and Ash. Yeah, it was like Sui Ash and
then three players from 3D Max and then the fifth was unknown,

(09:51):
which always felt a big bullshit.
It was pretty much like without Maca, right?
There's like a random open that we didn't know who they're going
to sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it so it always felt a littlebit bullshit.
But what I will say is I think this is a team that is a much
better sign than that because you've obviously like, yes, a 3D
Max score would have a stronger vRS standing, but you're playing

(10:11):
with a lot of variables for themto hold their level.
This team is a team with a pretty consistent level and you
know, in in theory can push to major qualification.
And if not, I think gentlemates probably have the money to like
slowly improve their roster and make sure they do.

(10:32):
This is also like one of the teams where like when we had our
Mars, like they'd be like, they would be like your RMR pick,
right, like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Probably make a run in the RMR. Yeah, or, and, and again, I
don't want to hop on about vRS and like all the changes and
stuff, but like it's a shame we don't have those kind of, you
know, domestic rosters where they can do something.
Cool. They're, they're just, you know,

(10:53):
they're one of those teams that are in an OK place.
Yeah, because of vRS, but also kind of really just suffer from
vRS And yeah, we're not, we're not going to go into vRS because
I think we've spent eight monthsdoing that on this podcast.
Yes, enough. Yes.
But overall pretty good from Gentle Mates and it's nice to

(11:15):
see an org enter CS like we don't exit, we don't see that
enough nowadays. And you look at Foot and gentle
mates, they've both got strong standings in Valorant as well,
so it feels like they're probably both orgs on the up,
which is good. Yeah, we mentioned Carl last
week, didn't we? Well, complexity going to

(11:36):
passion UA. Yes.
I'm pretty sure we did if you didn't see that happen.
Complexity went to passion. UA and Complexity are leaving
Counter Strike. Yeah, big sad.
Yeah, I want to make a joke, I really do.
It just kind of sucks though. It's a shit.
But the joke's with the roster, the joke isn't with the
organization. Like you should you should read

(11:57):
the newsletter and no, producer Charlie, this isn't a good time
for an ad read. However, if you want to cut me
off mid sentence, it probably would be quite funny.
But anyway, yeah, it's a it's a really funny one because we give
complexity a lot of shit on thispodcast, but the shit really was
with the roster. It wasn't with the organization.
It's just that those two kind ofunfortunately go hand in hand.

(12:18):
As for an organization, Complexity is the greatest
organization in NA history. It's not.
It's not Liquid, the Dutch organization for for winning a
Grand Slam and it's not cloud 9 for winning a major subsequently
having the roster blow up and doeverything they can to have a
non competitive roster afterwards.

(12:38):
It's Complexity who are the oldest org in North American.
Counter Strike won multiple majors back in 1.6 and have
always stuck. True besides like brief moments
like there's a point towards theend of 1.6 where they had a
Brazilian team with fallen and some people and obviously the

(13:00):
the Juggernaut. But other than that they've
mainly traced stayed true to their mission of being a North
American counter strike team, which is pretty commendable
considering the regions pretty shit.
So yeah, big shame to see them go, but hopefully at some point
they return, but we'll see. Anyway, moving on to another

(13:24):
national roster. This one is unfortunately
struggling though Big have made some changes.
Process has returned to the mainroster with QB dropping out and
Scrunk, who is who was their coach, is gone after a month now
because I had to look this up because I was writing about

(13:45):
them. How many times do you think
Process has gone in and out of the roster?
I'm not sure if it says it on the screen he's.
Joined three times, so like 333 in, three out.
It's only twice. I thought it was 3 or 4 because
it feels like it happens once a year and.
I think he's like pretty good aswell.
Like like like I don't think he's ever been the issue when

(14:07):
they best for teams. So so this is what I was going
to say, right? I actually quite like process.
I think he like he has some bad games.
So I think those bad games are probably more down to roles and
anything else. Like I actually think the games
where he plays really well, he'sreally good and he he looks like
a player that should probably get more more responsibility on

(14:29):
the roster. As for scrunk, you know, there's
very little we can quantify there.
I I. Appreciate, I had to do me today
with him in Cologne because noneof the big players wanted to do
it. I didn't get to be with him.
He was really sound. Yeah, I really liked him.
Big's a weird 1. I don't mean to cut you off, but

(14:49):
it's just they're just kind of there and they're just kind of
been in this like limbo state oflike getting to events and kind
of not doing anything for like maybe four years now.
Yeah. And I don't know if Germany has
the depth of talent to just to do anything else.

(15:10):
The thing is. Who, who, Who is there?
Is I think Germany. I think Germany has four players
with with the depth of talent and I think they have three of
them. I mean, like there's prime taps,
sure. I'm not sure how good prime taps

(15:32):
is above the level. I was going to say Sin, and
sin's the really obvious one. Yes, because.
Although taps and has shown. Quality as well.
Slacks but like slacks is like equal to hyped in that they both
showed flashes where they're really good, but they both also.
Like. It it's clear that you know, on

(15:53):
a on a peak German team, whoeverthe opera is would be the the
the ceiling. Yeah, yeah.
Of the team but like JDCI, thinkJDC is solid.
Crimbo rough year this year? Like he was like had a lot of
time to him and I thought he could have been really good.
Like kind of. Second coming of Tabson type

(16:15):
thing. I think Crimbo might have been
if he'd left big and I think maybe now it's like generally a
a confidence thing. As for Tabson, I think Tabson
probably still could be a star. I think he's just bogged down
way too much by IGL in and I think that's I think that is
maybe the issue with big now is that like.

(16:36):
Yeah. And I also think Tabson is like
generally quite great. And I think like he, he, I want
him to succeed. Like I I actually want him to do
well and. I want.
Oh, he's a wicked. Bloke but like wicked he just
like hasn't really been good since he stopped calling and
like there's a natural fall off but I don't know if like the

(17:01):
calling isn't great, is it good enough to justify having him
doing it? Do you know what I mean?
I. Mean 1.04 rating isn't bad.
I mean, it's not, it's not bad, but I suppose they're not
winning anything. Well.
Quite like that. There's also that like like.
He's like he's had high points as an IGL.
I just think like when this team's been at such a steady

(17:23):
point for a long time, you probably do need an IGL change.
And I wouldn't have an IGL change that results in tabs and
leaving the team. No, I'd just have it just be
this kind of, you know, reset for the for the roster.
I just think sync. Could provide.
I do wonder how many, like, offers he has had over the

(17:44):
years, like when he was kind of peeking and stuff that he turned
down to be like, no, I want to play on a German team.
Yeah, which like, I respect. Like, I actually do respect,
like sticking to your, your ideology.
So that's the one you want to say, right?
Like you're like, no, I want to make a German team successful.
Like, awesome. But it's not Korea suicide.
I don't know if he's helped his career.

(18:05):
You know, everyone knows. Who he is, he's like.
Successful but like could he have won tier one events?
I guess it on a good on a betterteam probably.
I guess it just comes down to what you want your your legacy
to be. And if, if that's what he wanted
his legacy to be, then I think whether he achieves, you know,
like that a fucking Cologne. He'll just always be a what if

(18:27):
though. That's what I'm saying, right?
Yeah, yeah, whatever you want tocall it.
If his, if his legacy was I wantto win something with the German
team. Well, I mean, look at his HLTV
page. Like it's not like he hasn't won
anything. It's just like.
Nothing that matters. It's it's, it's nothing that
matters to most people, but I'm sure to him it's you.
Know no of course it's a win to win like I'm you know I'm not

(18:47):
wearing any trophies on extra TVso.
Yeah, well, I've watched you play.
I've watched you play camera. No, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I did.
Look at your your recent game. I was quite impressed.
Actually, Jack. Not because you went horribly
negative. You did.
No, it's bad. Yesterday was really bad, yeah.

(19:09):
Yeah, yeah. But but in your defence, and I
did point this out, major success for you. 83% headshots.
Yeah, it wasn't like I don't have like 4 kills though.
Yeah, you had 6 kills, which means you had five headshots,
but I've seen you get 25 kills and have 3 headshots, so we're.
Getting there. I've got some big pins on it.
This is not relevant. The viewers do not.
Hear, need to hear this. No, but I want to look.

(19:30):
I'm nasty to you on this podcast.
I want it to be nice. I want it to be positive.
I'm not sure this was like a punch, but with like wrapping
paper on it. Do you know what I mean?
Surprise. And then and then.
You've still clobbered me. Oh, OK, let's let's let's move
on. Let's talk about the big the big
roster news, which is that Phasehave benched a leash.

(19:57):
I feel exalted. I feel vindicated.
Is that the right word? I think it is.
Yeah, I mean. Get that bald fraud away from
that team. So here's the thing right now
the best thing we can stop talking about a fucking bald
buff. Like go fuck yourself.
Bald people should not have respect. 2nd right, You're not
bald, I can see. It it's going, it's going.

(20:19):
But like, OK, so again, I said, I said this in the in the
newsletter. I think everyone when this move
happened was really excited for it because the Liege had been
really good in complexity and itwas quite exciting to have this
this idea of phase like losing rocks, who is the biggest

(20:40):
passive star in the world, and getting a Liege who had been
one. Of the best.
Stars sorry sorry you're fucking
broken anyway, anyway, yeah let's let's move on yeah it just

(21:06):
didn't work out and I think the problem with the Elise move is
it became clear really early on that it wasn't going to work out
because you know from the first interview usually get it's just
it's just people saying like oh we're not we're.
Not, we're not, we're not. It's not working.
It's. Not going well.
Elise wants more protocols. He wants the way we call to
change, the way the structure aroused to change.

(21:26):
And it's all this shit where it's like, OK, Elise is good.
Does is Elise enough to demand those things?
No. But he's not.
He's not Zai Wu. He's good, but I'm not sure he
is exactly. I wanted to to get to this.
And. This was from the Talking
Counter discord. Oh yeah.
Which is the Sponge and Yenko and Moses podcast I think.

(21:50):
So supposedly Frozen was the main crux of of wanting him out,
which I can kind of understand, right?
Obviously I am backtracking, butfrozen is a star player and
obviously he was they would be completing.
And I think my whole gripe with the fucking Elise move is like
there are like 2 good Ross, likenot quite 2 rosters he's been

(22:15):
on, right The last two where he's been like kind of openly
see open secret, like he's fucking killed those teams.
He's ruined those teams because he just you know, he's been
known to just have a bad round of no com or if he if he dies
and not gonna try to, he'll justbe like.
The shit I've seen him do while wearing a liquid jerseys.
Outrageous. You're a fucking pro player,

(22:36):
like I'm glad you care. I'll get if someone fucking size
in discord bro I'll get pissed off like shut the fuck up like
just play the game do you know what I mean?
I'm gonna hold my tongue. But you know, he's like not
notorious, like it's a known quantity like, and is he good

(22:57):
enough to justify that potential?
Like, you know, killing the fucking vibes or everyone else,
like on complexity? Yeah, yeah, he was just everyone
else was shit. Like on Phase.
I know they haven't been great, but like, I don't think, I don't
think he's, he hasn't made them win.
No, not at all. Like this is the thing, right?
I know he's he's still had some good games.

(23:20):
He's had some fucking awful games and like, but before this
year, right, You ask anyone, like who the GOAT IGL is, pretty
much all of them are going to say Carrigan and say like, oh,
it might be Glaive, but he's notdone anything for years.
Yeah, yeah, Like, sure. OK.
This year Apex has also thrown himself into the conversation,
right? And that's different.

(23:42):
But Carrigan has been dragged out of the conversation.
And that is insane to me. And if it if that's because some
guy went in and was like, Oh no,we need to do it like this.
This is how NA teams do it. Get fucked, but actually get
fucked. You were part of one of four
good NA teams in history, and two of those teams were good for

(24:06):
2 events. Like let's let's not fuck about
here, right? The way phase play the game, or
the way phase played the game rather.
It wasn't consistent because it relies on people playing close
to their peak level all the timeto get those clutches.

(24:29):
But it fucking worked when it worked and they won every time.
So I don't blame trying to. I don't blame Carrigan for
trying to change something to bemore consistent, but I do
completely blame all of Faze, including Alize, Raine,
Carrigan, all the other fucking bums for listening to this shit

(24:52):
and thinking oh maybe he is right, maybe we do need that.
Fuck that, like. It, it seems like his play style
is very much like have cake and eat it type thing, right.
Yeah, and, and especially like, you know, from what like I've
kind of heared like for like, you know, both like general just
like know how free Twitter and stuff, but also like our events

(25:14):
and you kind of just, you know, the whispers you hear between
talent and and and journalists and shit.
Like I think he just wanted moreand more and more space and
spots and stuff. And like, I know rain hasn't had
a great year, but like, why didn't you replace rain?
Like, like what if you, if you want, if he wants those spots,
like just make him replace rain and then get someone else.

(25:36):
Yeah, like you sign, sign Jacob who they've signed now right in
the first place, if that's if that's what you're going to do,
do. You know what I mean?
Well, so this is this is the thing, right?
And let's let's talk about. Jake and also, yeah, I'll let
you think, but like this move was leaked, was leaked,
whatever, like rumoured months ago.
Yeah. So this this is what I was going
to say, right. I heard about Jacob Tafaise

(26:03):
during Austin or before, just before Austin.
So this this move is a is is nota new it's not a new thing.
And then when you when you get that clip from confirmed, which
I think was two weeks ago now, where strikers like, Oh yeah,
phase want to make a change and we'll be making a change.

(26:24):
But because of the Dallas standing situation, they
couldn't. And when you realise that their
Dallas core was frozen, Carrigana Liege, this ain't a new thing.
Like they wanted him gone. But the thing that's interesting
to me about the Jacob signing isthey clearly don't think the
issues lies within the system. Jacob's an aggressive player.

(26:45):
Yeah. So they don't think the issue is
that we've looked to change our system, they think the issue is
just a Liege. It's just not a good look.
For I guess like, I don't even think like Jacob's like that
good, right? Like an excellent Tier 2 player,
like I don't know if he'll be anything crazy, but like again,
I hope he I hope phase win now just to kind of set it some like

(27:07):
like at least like you can't. There's not many players who are
good enough to allow them to to behave the way that they they
do. Like there's like, I think Nico
gets over this Celtic sometimes,right, because like he is like,
you know, probably the best writer of all time.
Do you know what I mean? Like, I think you can give him
that. Like I used to be based on for

(27:27):
like you're professional. It's your fucking job to play
the game properly. Do you know what I mean?
But he's just great. But he's he's not Nico.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
I don't think you can allow yourteams like why was the wrong
way? But like, you know, the team
mental then I guess the psychology of the team to be
ruined by one guy unless they are literally that good where

(27:50):
like you can just suck it up andgo, yeah, like he he's telling
and screaming at me. But he he is just like winning
rounds for us. Speaking of of bitch mate
people, what do you think of theconcept of phase making another
move which involves benching rain and letting Jacob be the

(28:11):
new rain and then still doing that Elise twist swap deal that
was rumoured? We're getting Twist back.
Yeah. Is that why you said Bitch made?
That's good. Thank you.
Twist is a better player, right?Well, because I like look, they

(28:31):
might think the playstyle is fine.
I don't think it's fucking fine.No.
So they can revert back to theirold playstyle.
You've just got Jacob instead ofRain.
But the issue is like frozen. In place of rocks.
It wasn't that everyone of his became shit.
It's like that playstyle, that system wasn't working anymore.
That's that's the thing like yeah, you lost rocks right, but

(28:52):
you, you, you, you. You wouldn't using it because
people. Would, but I, I don't I no, I
think, I think the, the like linchpin for that system was
Twis. I think there's very few people
in Counter Strike that could do what.
I think it's kind of one of those unquantifiables, right,
where like, yeah, like he's not like particularly like crazy on

(29:13):
start. I think he's obviously a good
player. Like he's not like you're like
complete star of the stats, but like he just just kind of Winnie
those rounds, Yeah. Yeah, I just think like.
And a lot of the rounds that could have one have kind of been
through him just having those those type of rounds.
Like I don't think he's fallen off, I think was bad, but.
I think it benefits Liquid because they get a more

(29:34):
aggressive player, but phase also get that twist profile
back, which they haven't had since loosening because
otherwise you had frozen and rock stepping on each other's
toes. And when, when you look at those
type of players in the last fiveyears, how many has there been
Twist, Majesque, Mesi Hunter, you kind of struggle to think of

(29:57):
any more than that. And I just think like Faze can
get back to yes, they're not going to win every event in a
case. Sometimes they're going to crash
out because like 2 of that like back heavy, for lack of a better
term, trio aren't aren't performing, which he used to get
a lot with. Like fucking what was it?
Was it Brokie in Rio? Was was terrible in the Rio

(30:19):
Major Brokie was absolutely awful.
Yeah, I mean, he was like the memories and they bombed out.
But when, but when it works, youknow, they just win so many
clutches that they just, they just win the event.
And I think that's probably Carrigan's best system and also
Phase's best system. Not even like it from a
competitive sense but like clutch rounds.

(30:40):
Like if you think like banger games, like games, like if
someone's like new CS, like are these the games you should
watch? The top ten are probably like 8
of them are phase games. Do you know what I mean?
Like like they they do just likeput on good CS and like this is
kind of why I was hoping like simple would join because like
he he is he is fun to watch CS is good when he's here and

(31:04):
phaser fun team jump in. Like love them or hate them like
when they were the villains like, you know, they were still
like like how they going to win this and they pull around at
their ass like you can't even like be mad at it.
Do you know what I mean? So yeah, like, like that style
is good and I think it's kind of, I'm not lacking it right
now, I would say, but like teamsare kind of wing a bit a bit
more cleanly, less scrappy, should we say?

(31:26):
It's that the phase bullshit. Yeah, I think, I think that was
always fun. You still get a lot of clutches.
In the yes. High level games, but like the
clutches just kind of feel different when it's phase
because clutches of peak phase feel organized.
You know, it was like, it was like twists, drops and brokey

(31:49):
like systematically working their way for a clutch.
Whereas now it's like, oh, how is Zontix bullshitted this
round? Who's hit the the free clean
headshots that they shouldn't have been allowed to hit?
Like the the clutches just feel different and that's why phase
games are remembered so fondly. Yeah, for sure.
But yeah. Yeah, I, I think it would be

(32:13):
good for twists as well. Honestly, I don't want to preach
on on Jacob too much because I, I, I haven't watched him play.
I could watch maybe one or two Apogee games.
But yeah, what are you shaking your head for, Sam?
Well, because you've just sent me a fucking MIBR event safe and
frankly, I just don't give a fuck.

(32:35):
So there we go. It's on the screen.
I don't care. I.
Just thought we should have reported the news as it.
Happens and now. And now it's gone again.
Please press the X producer, Charlie.
OK. And you know what?
Move. On no, actually not move on.
I was going to say play the ad read, but there is one last
thing we need to talk about and that is the taken of the week

(32:56):
which doesn't come from taken, it comes from murky.
It is one of the wildest takes that has ever been said in the
TLDR discord and. You just do this one in an
accent. Oh, you can.
I won't. No, he's Filipino.
I'd get in trouble for it. OK, I know.
Somebody can't. He said neo to management in

(33:17):
phase, Carrigan to coach bench Brokey, add Cadian as well by
jail and bring back a Liege. And then he said please don't
line me up against the wall again because when he previously
said Nip a Liege to Nip, I askedhim to stand against the wall so
I could shoot him in the back ofthe head.
There's a moth in here. Sorry I'm.

(33:37):
OK. If I squeal, that'll be why.
Yeah, Murky. This is a phenomenally bad take.
My my main gripe of this like let's just ignore the Kalian
thing. No, that's the worst part.
No, it is, but my my personal thing is this fucking dumbass
agenda that carrier will be a good coach.

(33:58):
I don't think he will be his callings whole system that we
just spoke about is pretty much mid round and clutches right,
which the coach ain't fucking talking Then like, yeah, there's
blade transitioning to to an IGLmade to a coach made fucking
sense. Do you know what I mean?
Exist also kind of in that in that category, right, Like it's

(34:24):
just like there's like fucking like baseline taking like, oh,
he's a good idea, he's a good coach.
No, no, he won't let him prove me wrong.
Sure, but like based on the success he has as an IGL that is
not directly transferable to coaching.
Yeah, and I mean like cadiums orby gel is a horrendously bad
take if you actually watch cadium play CS2 with an open his

(34:47):
hands. I also just think he's generally
done in counter strike anyway. But I think this is also just a
good point to to end this this phase thing.
It's just like, I really think people in Counter Strike need to
actually like pay attention you motherfuckers exist on HLTV.
Like you're actually sad enough you do post on the fucking HLTV

(35:09):
forums you fucking no life cunts.
And how do you not see these interviews?
How do you not see everything that everyone fucking says that
you need someone like Sponge to say in a discord message?
Where can you not read between the lines?
It's like. Media literacy, right?
Or maybe it's not media literacy, but like, again, just

(35:30):
it's there's context due to that.
Do you know what I mean? The fact the fact that like the
naff thing at Austin, right, where he's just not smiled in a
single photo. He's not wearing the team jersey
hoodie over. He's got hoodie on with the hood
up and he's. Yeah, separately, these things
are, you know, maybe he's just I'll.
No, but but when? But when the whole time you've
got all these like you've got rain, you've got Carrigan and

(35:52):
whoever else doing in an interview saying like, oh,
illusion is this. Illusion is that Yeah, it's just
not clicking for the Can you notconnect the fucking dots?
Can you actually not figure thatout for yourself?
That's. The common denominator for those
who you want to wear and Elise'sin a lot of teeth tends to be.
But even that, even the more like fucking like immediate
trained responses don't put the fucking finger on anyone.

(36:15):
Or like even the ones that do like Oh yeah, it's not a bad
thing. No, it's a bad thing because you
fucking complain about it. How would people not see why is
there still people? It's like, oh but a leash like
was playing well individually. Sometimes an individual isn't
bigger than the fucking team. Well, Glenn F right?
Yeah, here's another example. And I don't think he's a team
ruiner, but like he is very performs very, very well.

(36:39):
Like he he has great ratings. His teams don't win.
Yeah, and his stats right now are fucking phenomenal.
Yeah, I, I, I don't doubt it. Oh his stats are unreal.
Pretty surely. Could you please pull them up?
I mean, yeah, he's a 1.22 in in rating 3.0 so.
Yeah, but but so this is this isjust the thing, right, Like.

(37:03):
One point 1.29 on CT as well. Wow.
Yeah, like this is just the thing.
He also doesn't entry more, but he opens more, which is exactly
what he should be doing. So there's a reason why players
like this fall down in teams. There's a reason why Elisha was
on complexity, and I hope Elishais the last time A-Team forgets

(37:26):
that. Anyway, Producer Charlie, please
play the the ad. So Jack, do you find it hard to
keep up with all the news and counter strike?
I do. I took a weekend off and I came
back to six new IGL's, 3 retirements and apparently
Melvi's water boy got picked up by a top 20 team.
Right, that's why I've been relying on the TLDR newsletter.

(37:49):
It's a biweekly e-mail that keeps you up to speed on
everything in the CSC without needing scroll.
Read it for three hours while questioning your life choices.
Yeah, it's like if HLTV for a baby with your funniest friend
who actually watches every game.Yeah, quick hits of news, spicy
officer moves, upcoming match schedules, and even some insider
gossip. Old killer, no filler.

(38:10):
And let's be honest, some of these tournament formats you
need a guide just to figure out who's playing who.
TLDR breaks it all down so you actually know what the Hell's
going on. Plus, it's funny.
Like actually funny. It's like reading a group chat
between smart CS fans who roast everything insight but still
care deeply about the game. So if your brain's full but your
heart still beats for Counter Strike, do yourself a favour,

(38:32):
sign up for the TLDR newsletter.It's free, fast, and guaranteed
to meet you smarter, or at leastsound smarter in Twitch chat.
Check out the link down below and subscribe, because the only
thing more tragic than missing amajor upset is not even knowing
it happened. TLDR you don't have time to read
everything you still want to sound like you did right?

(38:55):
Well, I hope you enjoyed our terrible ad read.
We're now going to talk about something else terrible and
that's a rating 3 Thank you rating 3.0, which you know it's
not actually that bad. There's a few like games that
it's spout that are horrible, like we we've currently got on
screen a Maui snake tweet. And if you look at that

(39:16):
scoreboard at the bottom, that'sclearly a problem with it, where
for all the data that they've inputted.
This should never be an outcome for that if you if you if you're
an ordered listener in this game, Zontix is 18 to 15 with a
one point. 4 This is just CT side right over.

(39:36):
Just CTC cool. 2 map series. Donk is 3115 so you know more
than two KD 107 ADR 1.43 excellent rating.
But but this is but, but this iswhere like there's, there's just

(39:59):
there's not enough context you can put into something like
round swing because there's there's another tweet and
Charlie, you won't find it. So don't bother looking for it.
But there's a tweet where someone asked Harry, is the
context of time on the bomb timer or in the round in round
swing? Harry said no, because that

(40:19):
would be too many tables to pullfrom well, and the truth is is
that round swing isn't good enough.
The issue is, and our friend Ty has been pushing us lately, but
like trying to get like a flat stat for these things that have
so many intangibles. Is is just I respect Harry and

(40:41):
and and the devs and everybody'sworked on this.
Like I think like they're doing great work and I don't want to
discredit them in any way. Like I think this is really cool
and I I like stats. I find it interesting and I
cool, but it you you cannot account for all the in
intricacies. Do you know what I mean?
This is why, like the eye test is I think people people talk

(41:01):
about right, like you can watch them play and go, Oh, they've
had a good game and the stats might not so that's a telephone
story, but like sometimes they don't.
Sometimes they actually don't. Do you know what I mean?
It's a great indication initially, but again, like in
that spirit game, like I don't see said whatever, but there's
zero chance that something should be high rated They're.
Not yeah. And you know, in this tweet,

(41:22):
Charlie's put now it's Harry responding saying it's a bit of
a weird one. Sondtix went up on eco
adjustments, so I'm assuming he won disadvantaged duels quite
often. But the main reason is that he
won three clutches and over a small sample size, round swing
is going to reward that heavily.And that's that's great, right?
That is great. That is there with a better

(41:46):
explanation. Probably an example of round
swing working. But like, why do you need
something? Why is there something in this
baseline stat that everyone usesthat you actually have to look
so deep into to understand that can throw up things like this?
Because this isn't an isolated thing either.

(42:06):
And by the way, this is just theexample that was on the screen.
And yeah, I just like you said, Jack, I just don't think it
covers all the intangibles. It doesn't cover certain
positions on certain maps that might be more valuable.
It doesn't cover time, which is obviously a big thing.
And also like, you know. Like in position's another one,
right? Like if a player like has bitch

(42:27):
roles, but they have a great game, like they might not get
the ring that they technically should because these things are
measures, do you know what I mean?
But if your Bianca is actually just like, clutching out and
farming, like they're going to have a good ring, but like, it's
more impressive that they're doing it than the guy who's
playing Khan, do you know what Imean?
Yeah, yeah. But it's like, you know,
position or whatever, the numbers also don't like the the

(42:51):
numbers don't account for a stacked bomb site, for instance,
that's also. Which also like this, again,
this is not a dig, but like these things are like very hard
to measure. Like I don't, I wouldn't even
fathom how they could pull that data.
So I get what they haven't, but then it's like if it's not going
to be like 100% accounting for everything.

(43:13):
Like I'm not sure you should be.Why don't?
We ship it back even more, rightand then it, you know.
Yeah, if you, if you can't account for everything, I'm not
sure you can account for anything.
You you should account for anything.
But anyway, so the, the reason we're talking about this and
it's all we're going to say is Maui Snake tweeted.
I have a feeling that the publicsentiment regarding rating which

(43:33):
used to roughly equate to proficiency in the game will
start to sour. Rating 2 point O and 2.1 match
closely enough to what other boxscore stats in brackets kills
ADR read and what the I test showed that it was pretty easy
to just take 2.1 at face value. Occasionally you'd see someone
eco farms and have to consider that.
However, rating 3 point O definitely seems to value easy

(43:54):
1V ones, IE being the final trading member of a 3V1
advantage too heavily because ofround swing.
Mesi's 1.49 rating versus Mongols is the first time you
watch an entire POV demo back and think this just isn't a 1.49
game. And if you if you Scroll down
Charlie should be a striker reply where he said I've had the

(44:20):
exact opposite feeling where most of the time it tells me
more about how impactful a player really was and catches
more cases where someone was underrated.
There will obviously be cases ofthe opposite too, just like with
previous rating systems. But I am most someone who got
loads of exit slash eco slash finishing kills got way
overrated. More got overrated way more than
now, having seen it, seen it in action for a few months, which

(44:43):
is like, it's fine. Like it's all fine.
But as Maui Snake replies, whether the algorithm is
effective at producing a figure that represents someone's impact
versus whether it matches community perception of
someone's output at the end of agame are two very different
things. And that is ultimately where
he's correct. Like whether we, you know, and I

(45:07):
say this is someone who works for TO, right?
Like you can try and shift the sentiment however you want,
right? You can try and, and communicate
it whatever way you want. The community will have their
their view and changing that is very hard.
Changing view of behavior in general is is fucking near
impossible, right. And another thing with this as

(45:30):
well is like like they would impact this run around so much.
And I again, that's another thing that like.
Impact isn't quantifiable. It's not because also like, like
what's impactful to a viewer watching the game?
Like oh, oh, he he stopped the rush.
Like that's an impactful round. Yeah.
But like is someone again, this is like kind of the watered down
but like is someone throwing like the same flashes every

(45:52):
round that set up your open to get AA double opener?
Like that's impactful because those don't happen without the
flashes. Do you know what I mean?
Like it's not the same measurement, right?
Because he's not getting the kills.
But like, do you see what I mean?
Like. Yeah.
Yeah, open the guy who's fuckingFlash is kind of easy.
It's it's the same thing with with igling.

(46:12):
Exactly. And also like again, we say like
the Carrigan system versus whatever system, right, like
these are not tangible unless you speak to them.
Yeah, unless you have the comms,unless you speak to them, you
can never quantify the impact ofan IGL like you.
You just can't. And I remember reading an
article a couple of years ago where someone had tried to do

(46:33):
this for surely and it was a mess because unless you're, you
know, invoice comes, you simply just can't.
You can't do it. You know, look at the Cologne 22
final Navi versus Fetti is obviously we all have seen at
some point that the round where Twist jumps up on Mini, drops
down, gets the double entries orwhatever kills Electronic.

(46:58):
Who made that call? That's what I mean that he just
said like. And we know who made that call
because they posted the voice comms.
Who was it? Was it Twist?
Was, if I remember right. Yeah, it.
Was I also like on the face thing?
I saw. Face are very good at like
carrying like left to post voicecomms like and it's good.
It's good content. But that's also another thing
like with the whole coach thing,like watch those voice comms and

(47:19):
tell me how that guy will translate to a coach.
It it it will. Yeah, especially like a lot of
the voice thumbs you learn from that is twist is also really
good at mid round calling. Yes, which I think is probably
why he thought he was good at Igling, which isn't always the
case. But anyway, like so so this is
this is the thing, right? You can't truly quantify impact

(47:42):
because a lot of the impact in around starts with the decision
to make a play. And unless you know who made the
decision to make that play, likesometimes when you're watching
around, you can tell who is making call.
Like I remember one of the one of the events that G2 won with
snacks, those around, they were playing dust too.

(48:05):
And there was a round where Nicohad made his way into CT and all
of the movements was based on Nico's.
Nico is calling that round in that moment.
He is making all of those calls and you can see it because
they're moving around him. Only the person within that POV
can make the call that makes that round play out that way.

(48:28):
There's again like like going back to the whole thing about
impact and and ransom and stuff like if I like an A main player
or an ancient, right and they just hear that one sound cue,
you know what I mean? And they can make a call that
says, OK, just just come throughmain like they did.
They just have to do what I mean, he's not done anything.
Like he's not actually like sure, like stuff on B has

(48:49):
happened. That's called the rotate.
Like there's obviously multiple pieces moving, right.
But like, yeah, these things areunmeasurable, immeasurable,
whatever the fucking word is. Like you can't, you cannot put
these in paper. So again, like the right thing I
get it's great work. And I think like it will take
some more tinkering and we'll get 3.1 and 3.2 I think.

(49:10):
And we'll probably like eventually land on the vision
that I think like aligns with the sentiment of the community.
I just like honestly, I just think we're at a point where
stats are really fucking tiresome.
Everyone is so obsessed with stats and they're just so
boring. Like to to apply it to a

(49:30):
football thing. I watch a lot of Wolves play for
some God awful reason and their striker is Jorgen Strand Larson,
right? And I remember talking to
Elliot, former host of this hereglorious podcast about Strand
Larson and saying how Strand Larson is really, really good.
Like his impact on the game is crazy.

(49:52):
And he just sends me back these stats, none of which actually
reflect why Strand Larson is good.
Sure, like it's great as a comparative metric against these
other strikers who like stack upin these stats.
But Strand Larson is good because he bullies defenders,
drags them out of position, and allows the guy behind him to
score. Now correct me if I'm wrong and

(50:13):
producer Charlie, you might havea different take on this because
you look more into stats than I do because you're a sad little
man. But there isn't a defenders
bullied per 90 Stat. Yeah, exactly.
I don't think such a thing exists, no.
Well, again, intangibles that you can't measure right.

(50:34):
I think they're working on hair flicks per night either.
Oh. That's good.
That's an important step. I just think like on that point
as well, like, like I think football is a good example,
right, where like the people whoscore goals, right, your
strikers are going to have more goals scored per season,
obviously. Yeah, obviously.
Do you know what I mean? Like doesn't mean they're better

(50:56):
players than your major doesn't defenders, right?
Like they're in positions to do things that result in wins, you
know what I mean? But everyone's at work like like
again, these things are so hard to measure.
And I think The thing is like these stats and stuff is more
valuable for people scouting, right?
You look through some stats, yougo, these five players are good.
Let's go watch them play becausethat's what you would do.

(51:18):
You wouldn't just sign somethingoff their stats and I'm sure
like I think Ash is talking about this like scouting it
before and I'd love to actually talk to him about it at some
point. But like your stats like might
be that's an indication, right? You start to watch the fucking
game. Well, it's why like.
People who don't watch CS or like don't they didn't watch the
tournament. Like I'm not watching UWC

(51:40):
because boycott whatever short like then don't comment on the
game. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, it's why Stan looks so good on Heroic, because Stan was
the only guy that wasn't doing afair share of entering.
He got to trade everyone. Of course that made him look
good. And this is the thing.
The stats for that look fantastic.
You still have to watch the fucking game to actually

(52:01):
contextualize those stats. But let's let's move on anyway,
because you brought a VWC and wehave a take of the week to do
VWC because I got into a little bit of a debate on Twitter the
other day. But Charlie, if you if you
scroll. Just one quick one on the topic.
Do you know who the highest rateplayer EWC was?
Yeah. Tech No.

(52:23):
No. Not a clue.
It's a Liege. Is it 1.5 rating across 3 maps
and a 1.3 rating? 3.0?
Sorry, absurd. Yeah, fair enough.
So anyway, as you can see on thescreen right now, HLTV posted a

(52:43):
picture of the Falcons fan club at AWC and this dickhead
Edoninio who posts way too much on Twitter by the way, Really
really sad Get a life reply to it saying hey HLTV, fancy
showing the whole arena once as a news source?

(53:05):
You shouldn't really be manipulating the narrative,
right? Which no, let's let's go a
little further before we break this down.
So I've replied because I can't help it sometimes.
Sometimes I have to bite. And I said should they also do
it at every Thursday slash Friday quarter final game that
isn't packed out for every otherevent?
It happens a lot, including during majors and Jack, you and

(53:28):
I have been to many arena events.
It does happen a lot doesn't it?Right.
To which Eden responds. These were the 2 social media
posts with crowd pics from Cologne the whole playoffs
period. There were G2 fans in the arena
for the Falcons versus G2 game. We could hear them on the
broadcast. Why not a shot of them too?
All my argument is that they're clearly trying to push this

(53:49):
narrative that Falcons have insane support when it's frankly
not the case. Is it?
Well funnily enough as someone who has just watched a game
every week during DWC, yes Falcons do have insane support
and every single game was playing was like that.
Now that might be Jack because Falcons are a Saudi Arabian

(54:12):
organization and if you weren't aware the E Sports World Cup
takes place in Saudi fucking Arabia.
And let me also point out Twisted Minds, another Saudi
organization also have a similarlevel of fans.
You just didn't see that Eden because you only watch Count
Strike and Twisted Binds have had CS teams, but we won't talk

(54:34):
about those. Didn't they have like a Turkish
team at one point? Oh, they had.
With like they had like some fucking holy cheeks team, right?
Didn't they? Didn't they have?
Yeah, I was going to say it was Lover and Doc when it was that
team. They had a team that tried to
qualify through the Asian RMR. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(54:55):
And Dale's famous for getting a from an insomnia in day one
because he called a player a slur in the warm up.
Oh. Fantastic.
He was paid by an all to go to the event and just said
something in all chat and they're like OK you're
disqualified. Brilliant.
Right. I'm going to say allegedly
because you got it wrong, but I'm pretty sure that happened.
If we if we go back to the the tweet producer Charlie.

(55:19):
So I I keep going and I say the biggest tournament of the year
has a crazy crowd. No way.
I then pointed out the thing I just said and I said I for 1:00
AM So surprised the home teams have support.
I bet big don't get it in Cologne.
Which, by the way. Big have a fan March.
The the roaring Bears will do a a fan March that will will, you

(55:39):
know, do content with and shit. Like, yeah, you know, they they
haven't been in the club playoffs for like maybe six
years. I think like maybe it was a 2019
and it hadn't been crazy. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it showed up. You know what I mean?
I will not be there. Mouse also get big support
because you know mouse are also we're a German organization.
We also have the golden Hornets for vitality and whatever

(56:02):
furious are called, which are people who go to all the big
events and typically a photographer will be seen taking
a photo of them. Now this tweet, this tweet is
fucking insane by the way, this is just pure mental Jack.
I'm gonna let you read this one out because this one pertains to
you, not. Necessarily, but you know, but
the EWC is sold out and it's theOlympics of E sports which is

(56:27):
one of the biggest events of theyear right?
It's all a big lie mate. And if HLTV were truly an
impartial news source they wouldn't be so blatantly pushing
the Falcons narrative. We all know they have ESL ties
so it'll never happen now again,I'm not a higher up in ESLI.
Don't I don't know these details.
I don't, I do not believe that there are any ties to the ESL
with HTV other than the fact they come to all our events

(56:49):
because you know, we host big CSevents.
And they go to every event. Yes, the sold out in quotes.
I think the event is sold out they're on you cannot buy
tickets. Obviously it's done now, right
like it finished this weekend. That's what being sold out
means. It's just kind of you know, and

(57:10):
he had another tweet where he was kind of saying about like
the numbers reported by like. I want to just say like, it's
like 66,000 attendees or whatever, right?
And he was like, well, it's obviously not because this this
this photo is less people. And I'm like, you know, I try to
like just be like educational here.
And I was like, I don't think this guy's an idiot.
I just think he's just pretty posted.

(57:31):
And I think he obviously has hisopinion and kind of an agenda
and is kind of getting like the confirmation bias type thing,
you know, But the way you measure attendance is most event
companies, WWE will do this likeI'm ESL will do this, like most
event companies will do this. I'm sure blast do it as well.
It's called like turnstile gate where it's like the number of
people attending across the event.

(57:52):
So if I have a four day, a threeday IM Cologne ticket and I go
three days, I'm counting as 3 attendees because I've attended
the event for three days. Do you see what I'm saying?
And you know, EBC, like you know, there might be, you know,
entire event passes, right? I might go every day.
But like if I paid for a ticket for 6060 days of an event or

(58:14):
whatever, that's going to count towards it.
Well. Because because this is this.
Is whether or not that's legit or fair doesn't matter.
That's how it's measured. And they're not incorrect.
They're saying that's sold out like that is Silk correct?
This is something to do with therest of his street, right?
Because he says, oh, it's the Olympics of esports, it's one of
the biggest events of the year, right?
Yes and no. In terms of esports, yes, it's

(58:35):
absolutely one of the biggest events of the year.
In terms of esports, it probablyis the biggest event of the
year. But in terms of Counter strike,
no, it's not. Of course it isn't.
And then also also like it is a big CS event, It's the best
teams and it's a big prize pool.Like like, well, like whether it
hasn't got the legacy that like Colonel Rocardo has, whatever,
like it's still, it's still a big event.

(58:57):
Like, like, and I don't want this to come across to me being
biased. Like, like I don't work on EDBC.
Like it's not something I touch at work, but it is a big event.
Like you might not want to be because it's not a big crowd.
It's not in a country you recognize you, you, you think
it's good or whatever. I'd like, I don't have an
opinion. I don't care.
That's not my fucking problem. Like it is a big event.

(59:17):
The best teams are fighting for a lot of money by every metric
that is STR I would say. But the real thing with EWC is
that a quite a few games have their world championship now at
the esports World Cup. So for a lot of games it is the
biggest event of the year, of the year.
It's also, you got to remember we are very lucky in Counter

(59:40):
Strike where we look at the schedule and think, fucking
elders. And watch all.
This. There's another pro league,
there's another PGL event, there's another fucking blast
online event, whatever right? Look at Valorant.
So Valorant have what stage? 123 masters and then champs?
That's four land events in the year.
You get a valor tournament at EWC.

(01:00:02):
You've now got 5 land events in the year.
COD. Yeah, 20.
Percent of your yearly calendar happens at this event.
Like that's the way you need to look at it as a as a percentage,
right? Which is, you know, fucking
great for those games, but it also means that the EWC is a
bigger event only if you take incontext the EWC.
If you take it in the context ofCount Strike, yeah, it's it's

(01:00:24):
kind of small and. It's also like like the issue
with the the context, right? It's like if you are just
looking at it as a CS event, like sure, I have that opinion,
I don't really care. But like it is a a huge
undertaking and a huge executionthat like the scale of that like
is insane. Like you might again, you might
not watch it, but like it's huge.
Like this place has like dedicated arenas built for

(01:00:45):
esports. This is.
That's not. That's not a common thing.
Well, like Vitality losing to Falcons in the 3rd place decider
meant that Vitality lost out on $1,000,000 because it meant that
they finished behind Liquid in the club championship.
And that is the actual interesting part of EWC because
the club championship, I believethis year was decided by Street
Fighter. Yeah, which was crazy, which

(01:01:07):
makes that that one game and that one event even more hype
because if you're a fan of Liquid or or Falcons or whoever
it was in the final, I'm assuming it was that that game
matters. Do you know what I mean?
And the club championship, like,I think it's a really, really
cool idea. I don't know where the fuck they
get money from. Like good for them.
It's fucking awesome. And then my only other guy with
this is, is with all the all thenoise about the E Sports World

(01:01:30):
Cup, like if it was a World Cup,it'd be national teams.
Like we've seen that with WSG and CS, right?
And IESF as well. Like teams that go generally are
not good. Like they're like a Tier 2
national team or like it's a bunch of players who don't play
together, right? And they just announced the E
Sports Nations Cup, which will be every two years starting in
Riyadh and then like touring to host cities.

(01:01:52):
I assume the winning country takes it if that's done properly
where like there is time put forteams to practice and stuff or
the cool way of how they pick the cooked teams.
Is that not what you guys want? Is that not the World Cup you
want where it is? Well, no, because they'll still
cry. Because it's fucking Saudis.
Yeah, for the first year. You know, yeah, but it's still,

(01:02:13):
it's still Saudi money, isn't it?
Like fucking. Most of esports, sorry.
Yeah, like, oh fuck, like honestly, just give it a fucking
rest with sports washing, genuinely like give me a fucking
break. But I'm not being funny.
Before ESL were bought by the Saudis, they had a fucking US
Air Force sponsorship. Are you you want to talk about

(01:02:33):
blood money? Blood money's fucking
everywhere. Look at all like, I don't care
how you fucking politically lie,right?
But either way, if, if your, if your point is on fucking morals,
look at look at what America aredoing right now.
There's there's like if you're if you're it's consistent moral
treatment, isn't it moral treatment of people like get get

(01:02:55):
fucking real. Is is the main?
Thing it seems disingenuous to have like this huge like anti
Saudi opinion or whatever and then like not really be as vocal
about the other. Countries, yeah.
And none of these. There's lots of conflicts and
issues and problems in the world.
You know, I think E sports can be a platform for people to

(01:03:15):
share their, their, their views.I think, like, that's generally
a good thing. I also think, like the game is
what we're here for. Do you know what I mean?
Like, should Israeli players getBuddha events?
No, Do you know what I mean? Should they be like, you know,
mystery? No, it's not their fault.
Is it like when the Russian players had to like, denounce
Russia and like, like put go on a neutral flag?

(01:03:35):
Like, if that's what it takes toget them at the event?
Sure. Like I don't know if that's like
actually necessary though. They're not the ones.
Debating, do you know what I mean?
Like they can be, they can be anti war and still be proud of
being Russian because culture ismore than that.
But as well, right, Just just with sports washing, it's

(01:03:56):
understandable, right, to have aproblem with Saudi Arabia.
Of course it's understandable tohave a problem with Saudi Arabia
because their culture is generally, you know, we're all
from the West. Their culture is quite alien to
us in the West. But you've got to remember what
the point of sports washing actually is, and all that is
really going to result in in that is that Saudi Arabia have

(01:04:19):
to become more like Abu. More Westernized.
And more like Dubai, the Emirates.
Where those places? Well, it's not all the Emirates
because most of them still have Sharia law, OK?
Well, Dubai, I've been to Abu Dhabi.
You've been. To Dubai and Abu Dhabi are like
Europe, but exceedingly safe andhot and sandy.
Yeah, and Hot and Sandy. So what's really going to happen

(01:04:42):
from the sports washing is the death of these things within the
culture that you claim to not like so.
Isn't that a good thing? Is it that bad?
I don't. Like that's the title.
Is sport washing that bad? Yeah, that is that's the title
now is sports washing. Sports washing isn't bad,
actually. But anyway, just to just to

(01:05:03):
close out the take of the week, just because there was one other
thing that I thought was mental.Why the fuck right does Eden
think that it's unbiased of HLT VS photographers or whoever is
there as a news source to post apicture of an empty section of
an arena just because it's Saudi?

(01:05:24):
Because where the fuck have you ever seen them do that?
The. Only thing I'm going to think of
and like this is like I don't know if it's even happened but
like the end of an event where like one guy is still sat there
when it's a cool shot right? Yeah, but that's because it
tells a story. Yeah, just like having this
section of Falcons fans tells a story.
What story does it, like, tell other than unnecessarily

(01:05:48):
shitting on not just an event but also the game in general and
this idea of like, waning interest or whatever to show an
empty car I didn't see. I also.
Don't think it should be like need to be impartial.
Actually, I don't think they do.No, they also don't.
Like they don't, they don't owe you that like.
They're also not government owned.
You're clearly a consumer of theproduct.
You have your own opinions, so they're, they're impartiality

(01:06:10):
or, you know, news. And the, the quotes need to
fucking stop because it just makes you sound like an idiot.
Doesn't matter. But you you clearly see through
the the the the lies that exist anyway.
But their impartial thing is to zoom in on a section of a crowd
and take a photo of them. Like because I'm just.
Saying is it not biased to not take any Falcons photos because,

(01:06:32):
you know, because of the ties? Yeah, like it's.
Ridiculous. It's the, you know, the other
side of the fucking shoe. Because I, I didn't see them
pointing up at the, the top level of the fucking Royal Arena
for the PGL major and be like, oh bloody hell, look at this.
There's no fans there on a Thursday.
Happens every major by the way. You get less fans on a Thursday.

(01:06:53):
People, it's not. The fucking weekend, yeah, which
Eden wouldn't be able to relate to.
But anyway, let's let's quickly talk about EWC itself because.
I'm delighted. Have won a big event.
Obviously there's a massive caveat in terms of crowd size
and lack of an arena, but this is another massive step for the

(01:07:14):
Mongols that I think we can all be really happy with because it
also included another convincingwin over Vitality.
And I don't personally subscribeto this idea that Vitality is
suddenly now shit. I just think they were very,
very good and they raised the bar too high.
Like, and, and people can't fucking judge things correctly

(01:07:35):
because as we've learned throughout this episode,
everyone's a big, massive fucking idiot.
Yeah, technical MVP deserves andalso just just just on the
writing topic, like he did have the third best writing in the
event across like 11 maps. He could pull it up.
Producer Charlie, I think it waslike 1, three, 9 / 11 maps just
go stats and it should have it. Boom.

(01:07:58):
But my point is yeah, OK, good, good memory Jack.
You know the the players about him were at least on three maps
and twist on 2 funny lol Obviously very, very, very good,
right? But again, even without the
rating, like, like if you watch the game, like he absolutely was
the MVP, absolutely. Like, and This is why, like I

(01:08:22):
know HIV done before where like a player who's the highest rated
might not have won the MVP at anevent because there are these
intangible things that you can'tmeasure without watching the
game. Do you know what I mean?
So yeah, there's that. The games were good.
It was good. Counter Strike, our pick of G2,
they did OK. They didn't do as well as we'd
like them to do they really? Didn't.

(01:08:43):
I'm not really surprised. I was kind of hopefully
optimistic. But it's also like pretty.
Good. Brutal.
Yeah, it's a single limb event, which we don't really have
anymore, especially not on Lam. But you know, Aurora being in
the final kind of a one man bandlike Zantaro's did just kind of
drag them through. But he's done that for a few

(01:09:05):
years now. I still, I don't really love the
Aurora hype. Like I think I've made this
clear before. Yeah, no, neither.
But this is, you know, not disputable.
They did beat very good teams to.
Get I think they were very luckyto make it to the final because
Major should have never won thatclutch on train.

(01:09:25):
That is another shake the bed moment from Falcons that needs
to go out of their games becausethat was a really fucking bad
round to lose. Other than that, yeah, like
it's, it's really hard to spare.Bombed out if anyone didn't
notice that. Because of single limb?
Yeah, they complained they were I'll, but 3D Max also upset

(01:09:46):
Navi. Heroic guys upset.
Win I'll so. So that means something.
True, Definitely. Yeah.
They poisoned everyone else. Tyloo beat Australis.
Not particularly sure that isn'tupset because I think that's
free wins on the bounce for Tyloo against Australis now,
yeah. I mean, definitely should be
upset. Did it OK.

(01:10:08):
But yeah, it's, it's one of them.
Like it's it's really hard to quantify the E Sports World Cup
because it's single elimination and we don't get single
elimination anymore. These are not fucking Bo ones.
At least it's not Bo ones. I think we've we've spoken a lot
about the esports World Cup. I don't really have many
takeaways from it other than I expect mouse to exist more

(01:10:31):
within this region now. Yeah, I, I think Mongols, you
know, it's, it's good that they won.
I'm really, I'm really glad theydid.
I really I really want them to do well honestly and it's
mentality not winning everything, Falcons not winning
because fucking hell like this shit still not would have caused

(01:10:52):
would have just been unbearable.Yeah.
It's good. It's good when great teams can
be beaten It it makes CS interesting.
Do you know what I mean? I agree.
But again, Spirit winning Cologne when everyone thought,
you know, expected to win it, Itwas it was nice.
It was just a cool change. I'll see, yeah, they'll have
Tenea coming in and they also got limited by Heroic, which is

(01:11:15):
considering that, you know, taking taking her best player
for the next event, which I guess will be last.
London blast London. So I guess we'll we'll wrap up
this episode by just looking at the blast London opening games.
None of them are interesting honestly.
Apart from G2, Liquid is kind ofthe only one that's a.

(01:11:37):
Coffee baby versus hydrogen bomb. 130 UK time Thursday, so
the day after this goes out. That's quite interesting.
You've got Fury versus legacies,your default fucking Brazil
match mouse start off against Imperial, right?
And Jack, have Imperial changed their logo?

(01:12:00):
Can you pull it up? I'll I'll tell you.
Because it keeps catching me outand I feel like that's not the
logo they've. Is it the Ladies Imperial?
They have and they have changed it because Imperial Valkyries
have a different logo. This logo.
Shit, this is awful. This looks like like is it
Gamdom or like one of those random gambling crypto sites

(01:12:21):
like it just looks like that very solid.
Is that their sponsor? Is it click it?
Is it actually? Click on one of the players
Charlie give. Me cello it.
Fucking is. So they're just actually who
owns Gamdom? That's poor, isn't?
It they're based in France, but who really owns them?
If we know, if we're going to get in the whole thing of, you

(01:12:43):
know, sports washing and shit, it's probably someone Russian.
Oh, it's based. They're based in Malta.
Oh, are they? Are they based in Malta?
Oh, let's leave it there. Yeah, why don't we talk about
multi sports watching? Yeah, thanks for watching
everybody. This is a great episode.
I really really had fun. Really enjoyable.

(01:13:04):
I won't be here next. Week No.
Where are you going? Some.
I'm going to Cody. Row Yeah, yeah, I'm going to see
CM Punk on Thursday, which is tomorrow for you watching.
I'm very excited, very excited. Yeah, I don't know who'll be
here next week. That's up to Jack.
I'll probably forget. I'll probably.

(01:13:25):
Forget. Yeah, you'll probably just
forget and you won't get a podcast episode, but I will.
If you want one. If you do want one, you have an
idea for a guest. Comment down below and I'll see
who I can. Otherwise he's going to pull the
shit out of his ass, place it ona camera next to it, and with

(01:13:46):
that, it'll be more than you. Yeah, go fuck yourself.
I'm. I'm Sam.
Pretty, pretty Charlie. Like a one, there's a 2 at the
end of the CS part of it. He's Jack made a train once
there's AH in there somewhere. And yeah, producer Charlie,

(01:14:08):
you've seen his Twitter throughout the episode probably
as well as a incredibly named DMgroup.
If you look at that shout out Cherubs dungeon, that won't.
Make it into the. Episode fuck.
And yeah, James also does thingshe makes from there.
And. Whatnot.

(01:14:28):
Yeah, I'll talk to everybody. Bye.
Bye. Music.