September 17, 2025 • 60 mins
This week on Overtime on Inferno, our hosts Sam and Jack decide to take a break from seething about VRS so they can dedicate 95% of their brain power to figuring out who Twistzz is replacing on FaZe. Then, the remaining 5% goes towards "the Chinese super team thought experiment".
Take of the week also returns after a whopping one week break.
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Chapters:
00:00 – Intro - GL remove Kursy for hypex
9:52 – Twistzz returns to FaZe
30:50 – Take of the week
38:18 – Fissure playground mid-tourney review
51:00 – The Chinese superteam?
59:00 – Outro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So, Jack. Hello son.
What if, right? What if you were a really,
really shit offer and you were French, which makes it
infinitely worse, And then somehow for some reason you
ended up on a tier one team and even though you're a your coach
(00:25):
tweeted that he had some degree of faith in you for some reason
and you weren't going to get cut.
Everyone knew you were fucking dog shit.
And eventually you did get cut after after less than three
months on the team. What would you?
What would you do in? That instance I I would be
aghast. Which is relevant because that's
the surname of the man we're talking about.
(00:48):
Oh, it is Jeremy Gast. Jeremy Kersey Gast.
Fucking rubbish player. Actually a rubbish player so to
to to catch you all up Kersee who was signed by Game Legion in
July if I remember correctly to replace Griks not Griks.
(01:11):
No, the other one. Slend, that's the blown they
better spend yeah yeah, also crap.
They've had some crap up, isn't there?
They have and Slend annoys me because I actually thought he
was decent. Then a call was that past?
Yeah, and he's crap and all, butanyway, yeah, Kirsty was signed
to replace Slend. No one really knew why.
(01:32):
The best team we'd ever played for was Gen.
One, which wasn't a particularlygood team.
Like there's like 6 play for them or something.
No, that was like gentlemates isn't no like the the team that
gentlemates signed originally anyway, I.
(01:53):
Don't know. They had anyway.
Sure. Anyway, Kirsty's fucking rubbish
and the bench name and they're signing Hypex which is another
player from Betclick, the team that face signed Jacob from.
Is betclick is also apogee, right?
They're synonymous. Yes, but.
(02:15):
I don't think one's a sponsor orone's not.
I'm not. So I believe Betclick is a
sponsor and the org is apogee. But in CS sometimes we do weird
things where we only refer to teams by their sponsors.
But then like obviously have teams in other games and in
other games they are referred toas betclick Apogee, so.
(02:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
We're not following them red below G Sports, are we?
No, we're not actually Speaking of they just got bought.
Bought. Yeah.
It's dog. Yeah, yeah, it's literally
Charlie. Click on the HLTV logo.
There you go. Chili's.
(02:57):
Group Chili's group, you'll never guess what country they're
from. Just like every other fucking
organization in E sports. Yeah, based in multi fan tokens.
OK, more of that bullshit. Well, yeah, yeah, I don't really
get crypto so I won't pretend to, but as long as it means
there's more money for me, then I'm OK with it.
(03:17):
I agree. I agree.
Anyway, back-to-back to gay backlegion.
See the The funny thing about this move isn't that curse is
shit. Since they announced it.
Yeah, it was announced about 10 minutes before they played
Liquid and then Kersey absolutely shit on Liquid in map
(03:38):
one. It was back to his.
Spread them. Back to his normal self in in
map 2, but he didn't shit on them in map 1.
There's always something about, you know, a player with a point
to prove right, A chip on chip on the metaphorical shoulder.
Yeah. And if we if we look at Kersey's
match history, he actually he does have quite a bit of a point
to prove because as you can see from the sea of red that's now
(04:01):
on your screen, he's not a very good player.
Even when he goes positive, he has a negative rating.
That's like, you know, he's smiling his photo, so he looks
happy to be. There, like it.
It's actually quite impressive. Like you look at his, you look
at his first series against. So his highest rating ever?
Well, you know, since he was in that series against Liquid.
(04:22):
No, no, no, no. There's one against big.
What were the better than 2.14? Wait, was it 2.14 against
liquid? In the one map, yeah, 187 is
big. Top Yeah, Oh yeah, 2.14 yeah.
So that's his, his best. Map But the river?
What was his round swing? That's the question we all want.
(04:45):
To know. Oh yeah, let's see his round
swing in that match. Charlie, go on.
All ever his entire round swing.Oh, he's entire round swing
would be pretty. The what?
The the other one, OK. Yeah, it does.
Too. It does too.
What's his round swing plus 15? Wow people tell me that's good
(05:06):
but I don't know because I don'tcare about round swing.
RWS mate. What about RWS?
It's RWS for nerds and Neeks. That's what round swing is.
Yeah, no, it exactly is that. But yes, so curse he just he
(05:27):
just isn't very good and the signing never really made sense
when they made it because like there was nothing impressive
about it. Wasn't you?
Weren't you weren't good before it?
This is the yeah, yeah. Like your PRS and your Towsons,
they're good. I mean, Res was obviously
already proven, but these guys were like, you know, like, so
(05:49):
Res has been playing. Towson wasn't really good.
No, no, no. What?
I'm no like Rez was what I'm saying is like Towson and PR
like were like, you know, up andcoming knew they were like, oh,
are they good? Are they?
Yeah, PR had a lot of hype around.
Them that was hype yeah, whereasbut even like.
But even outside of game. Kiersey is the epitome of of the
(06:10):
blood fixes on the team meme, both in like the way he just
like looks in team talks and stuff as well as just on on the
scoreboard he just seems out of place.
But like. I said.
Even outside of game illusion, like when when you look at the
authors that people have signed like Moladoy and grips were very
(06:33):
impressive at the level they were playing at cursor you see
there like 1.1 free rate in which is only like I think it's
.02 lower than hypex. But Becklick playing much better
than than Gen. one did. Gen. one were not a good team.
They were not playing against good teams.
(06:53):
Betclick at least do. Plus Hypex actually played quite
well at PGL Bucharest earlier this year.
Like the the Kirsty move just never made sense.
And Charlie, if you if you go onthat tweet from Ash, look how
long ago that there was already rumours that they wanted to get
(07:14):
rid of like this was what? So it's like 3 weeks ago from
now, but a month after they signed courtesy.
And yes, like you know, some part of that is, is.
But it is true that Game Legion were interested in Greeks,
right? Yes, they were before.
Before Heroic signed him. This like the Gromov guy?
(07:36):
He's pretty. He's pretty accurate I feel
like. Yeah, yeah.
And this is the thing, right? This could have been a stab in
the dark because they were interested in Greeks.
And then obviously it's slightlyfortuitous the Greeks got
benched even faster than Kirsty did, but like.
Was all right. That's the difference.
Yeah, well, he was OK. He's better than Kirsty.
(07:59):
Was but but how funny is it thatAsh has tweeted this out and
three weeks later just cut the bloke anyway?
I mean. I'm not going to say it's
entirely Ash, right, but it probably is like he does do the
scouting and stuff, right? So.
He must have control. Over and this is I think not, we
spoke about this before, like when they signed Kirstie or
maybe like a couple weeks ago. And I, I, I did applaud Ashley's
(08:23):
scouting and I think I said thatlike Kirstie wasn't the one bro.
Like maybe he just can't scout orpers.
Yeah, but some people, some people don't get Orping, do
they? Like MSL famously didn't.
And like, it's why he started Orping.
Well, it's why he started Orping, because he just like he
couldn't. Is that why you ought?
Yeah, like he couldn't fucking call for an ORPA because he
(08:46):
thought they were all brain dead.
Yeah. But then again, it's that's.
Tangier And what's that? Who?
Who's who's the other one that? Streets won't forget Mertz.
Orpas always do crap. Dexter.
Dexter is crap at ideally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean Dexter's, it's not just Orpas.
Well, quite, but. But it's more accretious with
orpas, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but look how good.
(09:07):
Look how good Torsi is now. Exactly.
Exactly. And, and people wanted him cut
when Dexter was there. Dexter's just fucking rubbish
when it comes to orders. Like maybe Ash has that same
blind spot, which is OK because he's, you know, he's pretty good
at scouting everyone else. It's a blind spot, not bald
spot. That's just quite kind because
(09:28):
he does up brothers as well. But.
Well, yes, but can contextually Jack.
It's not. Relevant.
No, it's not. Are there any events in it?
Just just run the intro, Charlie.
I'm not doing this right.
(09:54):
So in more roster news, Twist isgoing back to phase.
He's rubbish. It's all over, It's all over.
No. No in other face related news.
(10:15):
Jack, I'm sorry, we've got to pause for a second.
I'd like to point out that in the minute while we collected
ourselves, after I said run the intro, Jack said to me, I've got
a bit and I thought he was goingto have a joke.
But the joke is the move. All he did was the no.
I get that, Jack, I'm just not sure that bit was as good as you
(10:38):
laugh. No, I did, but it was.
Comment down below if you laugh at that moment guys, thank you.
That funny, funny moment carry. On.
What you were going to say? Wow, wow phase of facts, aren't
they? And it's come out that phase
temper may or may not be a paedophile as well.
So not a good week for fans of the team.
(11:04):
I'm not saying the roster movement and tempers sleeping
with miners have anything in relation, actually they just
happened at the same I'm. Not sure I really want to get
into temp for talking about talking, sleeping, something to
do with miners. I'm not like I'm.
No, no, but. I'm going to park that one,
Jack. It did.
It's happened. Apparently I'm going to park it
(11:25):
like Twist parked his career at Liquid.
That was. That was a segue, I believe it.
Gets back to what we should be taught anyway.
Yeah, so twist after what, 18 months of pure dog shit on
Liquid? He's going back to phase.
And you seem to be quite negative about this, but I
actually am a fan. The move makes sense.
(11:48):
I I just him going to liquid wasthe silliest thing ever.
The move makes sense under certain circumstances.
Well, yes, if there's two Hobbitthat calls here, right?
Twist is replacing Elise and Jacob is replacing Rain.
They just happened at different times.
If that's the case, that's all all good.
(12:09):
If what the rumors do be saying that a frozen might be in an RV.
I don't know how substantial substantiated those rumors are,
but you've just placed, you knowyour main star player with like
another one and not actually solve the the problems you have
(12:29):
in the team and also how you usethe retire as well.
I mean OK if frozen stays on phase then I think this is a
good move, but the problem is isthat no one yet knows who Twist
(12:53):
is replacing. Now some people are saying
Jacob, which would make no senseand would actually be quite
cruel considering he's just joined the team.
It would be stupid, yes, like both in game and like as a as a
brand and how how you operate it's.
Yeah, absolutely. So I'll park that as not
(13:15):
happening. Yeah, yeah.
No, I agree. Then people are saying it would
be Carican in that Carican mightretire and become the coach and
we're not going to go back down the.
No, no, don't. Back down the Carrigan would be
a bad coach, bad coach St. But let's be clear on something
(13:37):
that would be fucking horrible. That Carrigan retiring and then
presumably Twist becoming the IGL would probably be the worst
of the three instances. Like he just really wouldn't be
good because we've seen Twist IGL and he's not fucking good at
it. No.
And you know, arguably he's got better players on phase.
(14:00):
But it. Wouldn't have and it wouldn't
make a difference because the issue was with that team was not
the players, it was the calling.Yeah, the players weren't happy
or you know, whatever either, but.
But then there's then there's also people saying, oh, well,
what if, what if rain are at GL?So it's like, well, what, what
the fuck's the point in that? There's there's like no point.
Why is he going to roll roll swap at 32?
(14:25):
Rain. He's not 32.
He's. He's old man, he's on baby, he's
on baby #2. I'm looking.
I'm looking. What?
You're wrong 31 All right, all right, 31 I.
Thought he was 29. Yeah.
I mean, look. I mean, it was two years ago,
but. Yeah, great.
Thanks for that. Like it's an appropriate age for
(14:46):
him to start IGL in. But you know, he does have like
fucking two hips. What's the point?
Just fucking retire, man. He's yeah, he's literally had
time off like literally this year because of a.
Kid if if you're going to be in IGL.
Which is which is super fine obviously, but I'm just saying.
IGL like go and do it in the online surrogate with the Nordic
team. Like build up some some new
Norwegians don't do it in phase.OK, he turned 31 last month, by
(15:08):
the way, so like he's. OK.
Just freshly 31 regardless though, Like that guy's in the
twilight of his career, right? Yeah.
Is, is a father of two going to have the additional time that's
needed to be in Niger, you know,doing all the and all that shit?
No, and he shouldn't fucking want to.
No, he's, he's done his grind. Do you know what I mean?
(15:31):
But that does bring us to the most likely option in that rain
will be leaving the team for twists.
Yeah. And I actually feel like it's
kind of a shame. Yeah, well, I mean.
(15:53):
Reign's been all right in the last few months, Like he's, he's
been noticeably better than he was in the first half of the
year, and he's still not like, as good as he was two or three
years ago. Yeah, but maybe in a team that
actually makes sense. You know, one that doesn't put
him in a Liege on the same team.Again, like like faces issues
(16:14):
are the players playing bad is probably more of a symptom than
the actual disease itself, right?
Yeah, all. Right.
It does make the most sense on paper.
Yeah, because when you when you sign Jacob, you've signed a long
term rain replacement. Well, he's a kid, he's someone
you can mould and, and, and, youknow, bring into that role.
(16:37):
Yeah, like we we said it on the podcast a few a few weeks ago
when Elise was was cut for Jacob.
Jacob is another an aggressive player.
He's another player that in theory steps on Rey's toes.
So clearly Phase didn't think the system was the problem.
But actually, if they're signed Twist, no, they do think it's a
problem. Yeah.
(16:59):
Because they're still looking tomove away from it in some way.
Because unless frozen goes and twist.
Goes it's like they sucked off Brokey, right?
And whether it really was because she knew she wanted time
off, whatever. Brooke had been alright since
since had been back, right? Yeah, Hypothesis concluded
Brookie probably wasn't the issue.
He was not playing well for for a long time, right?
Let's give him that. But you know, provably not the
(17:22):
problem. It brought a lesion didn't get
any better, right? I'd say at least probably it was
part of the problem, right? Oh absolutely.
Like that's so we face. Players have said that enough.
Yeah, Frozen is very, very good,right?
Very good. Reigns still decent but you know
(17:46):
does this face him want to win this year or do they want to win
in the next 5 years right? Like do they want to be a
contender for a while now or or they want to just have another
year of of like looking at a fewtrophies?
Well, well, this is the thing right?
Like Rain is 31 carrier swap 3435. 57, yeah.
Something like that, but eventually you have to move on
(18:06):
from these people and A twist could be a part of that.
I don't particularly want to seehim IGL again, but maybe on
phase he could sacrifice his ownego to IGL and then we're
talking a different story. I I think the thing we need to
look at and like without like letting the style to blindness
is that Twist was never the bestplayer on phase, right?
(18:30):
No, that, that's the thing. Like.
Him coming in now that kind of expedition is on, is now on him
which. And that's and like, personally,
I just think that's wrong. What that that is not on him or.
No, that that expectation will be on him.
I think it's, I think it's ridiculous.
It shouldn't be like I agree it shouldn't be because he never
(18:51):
was that guy and not saying he'snot good, he obviously fucking
is good. But does does he fix if if it's
the move that we think it's going to be right?
So Jacob goes into rain spots, twists, gets the lucky passive
shit. Does that make phase better?
(19:14):
Yes. Does it fix them?
I still don't think so. I.
Mean. I don't think Carrigan mid run
master class is. I mean.
He's going to make it, should make it work anymore.
Here's the thing, right. So if we look at if we look at
(19:36):
phase back in 2022, their like strongest period in CS ever,
like outstripping even the the OG super team.
They were so good because brokeyrocks and twists and rain would
pop up here and there. All had an extended period of
very good form. They were a back heavy team that
(19:56):
relied on clutches, relied on winning 3V fives with.
Robs, Twists and Brokey all playing parts in that.
Twist was the aggressor when they're in that position and
Robs and Brokey did the majorityof the clutching.
But if Twist needed to, Twist could do it too.
Just to stop, you know, though, I don't think that's a system.
I don't think being back heavy is a system.
It's a it's a style, right? No, it is.
(20:20):
It is. Like this is a method of play,
like if you method of players like these guys need to clutch.
I I understand there is, there is gun play in the game, right?
And there's a degree of that obviously, but system to me is
like, you know, MSL snappy type shit right when when there's
like. Call out of spawn and do the
(20:41):
rest off of. Well, not necessarily, no, no,
but but. That is what that is, you know.
Yeah. The The thing is, Jack, The
thing is like we we could argue this semantic for a while, but
it it was the system of that team, the.
System of that, team that that. Carrigan, Carrigan and Rain
would sacrifice themselves to give those 3 the backstabs of
(21:02):
winning the round. Yes yeah.
Going to become a pilot and whatnot.
No accident that was good from you anyway.
Yeah, I was trying really hard. I thought about it.
Yeah. Anyway that that was their
system? Yeah.
You look at them in 2025, is Brokey close to the level he was
(21:25):
then? No.
Can Frozen ever be close to the level Rupps was then?
I really like frozen. Not sure he can.
I think you know, like he's he'sRupps light twist.
Twist obviously can reach that level, but there is now a
problem with Twist and it's not the expectation that everyone
(21:48):
else places on him and it's the expectation that he placed upon
himself and the ego he has. If Twist is going to make this
second phase stint work where the second liquid stint didn't,
it's because he needs to accept what he fucking is as a player.
Yes. On Liquid, you know, he went
back there to be the star, He went back there to be the guy
that he wasn't the first time around.
He wasn't a Liege, he wasn't naps.
(22:08):
He was the fucking glue the first time around.
He was a glorified support player and he wanted to go in.
He wanted to be the hero, to finally bring Liquid a trophy,
to give them their second Grand Slam, the major.
They didn't get all this fuckingbullshit and it's they just
didn't. It didn't work because Twist as
a star actually was just a shit version of Blame F.
(22:32):
He still had good ratings, but he was a shit version of
Blaimath. He was the same type of luxury
star that doesn't actually get you anywhere unless.
You yeah, no, he's that's what we're trying to say again, this
phase now 2025 phase doesn't have a rops to do that.
It's the same way like, like, you know, rocks on the team.
Close in Frozen. Close, yes.
But like at the level that thoseplayers are at, I don't think
(22:56):
those cuts there, do you know what I mean?
Yeah. But that actually 5% is, is is
big. Yes, but so the point I was
going to make after that is thatphase in 2022 is probably the
only time phase have ever been consistent.
Like yes, OK, there's the back end of 23, start of 24 where
(23:17):
they were making it to all thosefinals.
But like you could tell that phase because of rocks being
Inique and because they were already pretty much dead and go
phase put a lot of effort into two at the start and and being
ACS two team where other teams were still CS GO teams playing
(23:37):
CS2. So consistency has never really
been a thing that's that's come to phase.
I mean if like if you look how long it took them to win their
Grand Slam and and that's the consequence of the system they
play because the system only works if the free if.
People are performing. Passive stars are performing,
(23:59):
it's the limitations of it. It's I don't want to quote like
the self help shit, right, but it's like you've someone is like
you fall to your habits or whatever, right?
Like you fall to the level of your habits or your systems,
right. So if your system is good, your
peaks are better, right? But your baseline is good and
this is the phase issue right with with the phase system is
(24:22):
that without performance that their battle baseline is sub
subpar. Yeah, so.
Which is why that the phase bullshit thing exists, right?
That they can be dog shit for the first three games of the
tournament and then actually just win win the whole thing.
Yeah, so with with this team then, assuming it's Jacob
instead of rain and Frozen instead of rocks, yes, they can
win tournaments. Of course they can, because if
(24:44):
if the form hits in the right way, the way they play will win
rounds, it will grind out games.Will it be a clone?
Will it be a Krakow or a Major? Probably not.
And I think there's another reason for that as well, beyond
firepower differences. What?
Would that be? Well, I don't think Jacob or
(25:09):
Reiner good enough. I think.
I think if you have. I think if you have you.
Can give him chance to be but. I think if you have a Liege,
yeah, sure you can give Jacob chance to be, but I think if you
have a Liege that isn't a prick,then then should.
Have been winning more, yeah. Because like, look at spirit,
they've got donk, look at vitality, they've got flames.
(25:32):
Look at mouse, they've got exertion.
Falcons take your pick like but look at every every other top
team has an aggressive star. That is where phase had never
adapted to CS2. It's what got them behind.
Yes, they tried it with a Liege but obviously the team didn't
(25:53):
work. It's like, it's unfortunate that
destiny. Really wants to be aggressive.
Really. I think he probably does, so
he's always played best. Yeah, but then you you see him
in a round where people die at the start and he just takes his
heads off and no comms because he's pissed off that it didn't
go exactly how he wanted it. To well, true, but but but so
(26:14):
this is this is my thing when itwhen it comes to tournaments,
face could win. You look at like look at the one
they're currently playing in, right.
Look at Fisher playground. I know I mentioned Falcons there
and you know, I could also say the same with Kendar and maybe I
did mention Santaras for Furia and Aurora, but they could
(26:34):
obviously win something like Fisher Playground.
Of of course they could win something like that if if the
form hits. The right, they lost the
Falcons, right? So that's reasonable.
Yeah, but Falcons have looked very strong at this event.
Yeah, Falcons are a very, very good team.
Look at, look at them just off on paper, right?
So of course they could win an event like that, but as soon as
you throw like Mouse into the mix, spirit into the mix,
(26:57):
Vitality into the mix, I don't think they can beat them unless
they all hit. So this is the thing, right?
Maybe Phase are in a pretty slowtransitional era, but I think
they can still win tournaments. I think it's unfair to suggest
that they'll never be able to win tournaments.
(27:17):
It's just understanding what Phase are and what Phase have
always been. They're never going to be a
consistent threat until Kerriganis gone.
But then what? And.
Until the system changes to something that allows for more
front heavy action. What?
What was it that the United manager said?
It it's like if you want to change the system, you change me
(27:39):
or something like that, right? Yeah.
It that's literally it for phase, right?
Yeah, yeah. Quite a relevant, you know,
comparison because. This, this is the character
system. When it hasn't worked, it hasn't
worked and they've keep plowing through.
Like when when Brooke is being enough to dog shit, can't hit no
shot to save his life looking worse than wonderful.
(27:59):
They've still done it when Rob'shas been off form twists for
most of 2023 was crap. And they they push through
because it's their system, because they have no other
option, because rain couldn't bedunk or exertion or or flames.
He couldn't be any of those players.
So they had to push through withit.
And that probably is actually the real problem with phase.
(28:20):
And that probably will be the real problem with phase is that
they don't have enough firepowerin their aggression like they do
with their more passive. Figures just human me for a
second then OK if God forbid it is frozen out and he goes to an
RV. Oh.
My God. Who is he replacing and is it
Alexi? No frozen.
(28:41):
Frozen. Is it Alexi you make you make
Emma call? It's Alexi or Emma.
It feels like it should be right?
So it's it's 100% Alexi or Emma.And it's, it's, it's a hard one,
(29:02):
right? Because Igl's get the blame so
often, so many things. And you know that Blade is the
type of guy that will sit there and think I can turn this
secondary caller into a, into a primary caller.
But I do think it'd be Emma. I think Blade's also the type of
guy that's smart enough to understand that any team that he
(29:22):
gives Alexi B will be a strongerteam for it.
Alexei has now proved himself asNigel for all the for all the
doubts he had years ago, he has now proved himself.
And remember before JL decided he wanted to go like do fucking
drag racing or drifting or whatever the fuck he's doing now
like he Emma was the one on the chopping block.
(29:44):
We all like we knew that fucker was going like.
I. Don't like him?
Emma's a lovely person. Really, really lovely bloke.
I think also though, like, yeah,what you said about like Alexi
going to another team, like there's a reason that the
community was like Alexi was shit but teams kept kept signing
(30:07):
him. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah. Think about how shocked people
were when if you signed him. After it's kind of, yeah.
It's almost a shame. People like, you know, you know,
like Alexi like Cope kind of thing.
Yeah. It's a shame it took so long for
it to work out for him, for maybe him to get the credit he
deserves, right? But that's also when we talk
about like systems and stuff, right?
Like sometimes you need the right players.
(30:28):
Like you can't just kind of have5 dunks to make them play the
way Ty Lue play right? No, exactly.
Yeah. Which is actually something that
we'll get to later. We will.
We will. Talk about Fisher.
Is there much talk? About oh, wait, no, we can't.
(30:51):
Actually, we can't because we'vegot to take of the week and the
take of the week is is phase related.
So this one comes from at Queen Neo.
I believe they're in the discordlike an OG relay I think yeah.
Oh, look it up, look it up whileI go through the take, because
this take is, it's honestly fucking terrible.
(31:12):
It really is. So they said in in a response to
Charlie. You'll have to scroll up.
I can't remember what it was. Right.
OK, so they originally tweeted, OK, can I say something?
If Twister's replacing Jacob, I think that's the wrong move.
And Loki Carrigan should be ashamed of himself.
Fair enough. Nothing wrong with that.
(31:33):
Can't see them but I've I've seen the name of that before so.
Someone then responded this wouldn't make sense at all and
they've said yeah. And more importantly, how many
times will modern Carrigan abusestar player metters to to win
when he was supposed to be the IGL known to best utilise
rookies? Jacob getting replaced without
development is demoralising. OK, are we getting Carrigan and
(31:59):
Snappy confused or Carrigan and Hunden or Carrigan and numerous
other IG LS who are actually known for, you know, moulding
young players? Carrigan's generally had stars.
You know, Nico was not a rookie.Guardian was not a rookie.
Olofmeister was not a rookie. Yeah, before that, the Australis
(32:19):
team were not exactly rookies. In fact, the only.
And when there were him, so was Carrigan, actually.
Yeah, in fact, the only time youcan look at him, mate.
Well, not really, but, you know,as Nigel maybe.
Like mouse. Yeah, that's probably the only
time you can look him. It's like, OK, you don't have
real stars on your team. Like Device was a top free
(32:40):
player in the world from what, 2014?
Top five. Probably, yeah.
Like and also like the Maoist team as well.
Like the first team, like Frozenwas the star, was the the
rookie. You still had Chris J and
Woksick. Yeah, who were like extremely
experienced players like and andjust so just so just to be
(33:01):
clear, the end of this tweet is fine.
Yeah. Shout out Chris J.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Jacob should not be get
replaced. Absolutely.
I think he's just doing a littlebit of trolling.
We do a little trolling. We do a little.
Trolling but but what do you mean abuse star player matters?
I'm I'm still just confused. Yeah, what?
What is? What does that mean?
Oh you're abusing the the systembecause you have the best
(33:24):
players on a good team? Well, fuck Vitality.
Are you meant to sell for havinglike, shit player?
Like yeah, but no, but like Vitality.
Oh yeah, star player. Yeah, they do.
They have very good players. Like I'm not sure.
It's just really baffling. There's an issue that some
(33:48):
people see CS in a like a strategy game, right, when it's
an FPS with strategy, right, not, not vice versa.
And like you can like I've always been into the, the theory
craft, like plot out on the radar, how what things do and
how they operate and time and stuff.
That's cool. But you know, in the game.
(34:09):
Practice. No, you got to fuck you, You got
to shoot, you got to, you got tokill the kill people in front of
you, right? Like that.
That is objectively what happens, right?
Well, this. Is this is and who's good?
Who's good at killing people? Star players I was.
Waiting for you to make an awfuljoke, but yeah, star players is
the correct answer. And 10 points.
(34:29):
No, no, we don't need to go. There No, no, let's not do that.
But yeah, no, I agree, right. There's just so many idiots in
Counter Strike and it goes both ways.
There's the people that think that Counter Strike is some form
of a point and click adventure game.
Well, the only thing that matters is whether you can hit
ahead or not, which as you can see by Aurora, isn't the fucking
(34:50):
case. And and then there's these type
of idiots that are like, well ifI give ecstatic the greatest IGL
in the world, we will win a major.
Just not true. Is it?
I I I'd love to see nut nut comeup against dunk.
Like I mean funny, a player likenut nut shouldn't even be able
(35:11):
to connect to a server. I don't even know if he's bad.
I just don't fucking like. Him in that.
Order like I just don't like NutNut just because his name is
fucking Nut Nut. Is he any good?
Charlie, can you just, can you look quickly, please?
JB pull that up for me. I kind of want to know if he's
any good now. He's not bad.
Martin Holm Vestergaard. That's so Danish.
(35:33):
They won a tournament over the weekend.
All right. Did you watch it?
Absolutely fucking not. If I watched a tournament then
ecstatic can win. They did beat Fanatic.
They won Bet Click Clash summer 2025.
Yeah, it's a little. They beat Fanatic in the final
actually because it's put Fanatics vRS in slide out so.
(35:54):
It was a 2A2 day tournament in Gdansk.
Yeah, I obviously, you know, quite one fanatic to make it to
the major because. Yeah.
Big fan of Cypher, good kid. Yeah, yeah, shout out Jambo.
And also a big fan of Tiny Face.Also a big fan of Blame F.
I'm always be on the Blame F train.
I'll never get off that one. Because one day, inshallah, I
(36:17):
shall be proof correct. Yeah, fanatic, I'll win a Buddha
best, aren't they? Yes.
We'll just say it for the sound bite.
We'll say we'll have it. There.
Yeah, we'll say it just in. Case We'll do an episode where
we just name every team, I think, and then we'll have the
clips ready. Yeah, yeah.
We'll just, we'll just like, getthe recording.
We're right. We did it.
We said it right, you know. Short form content that fucking
(36:38):
makes us blow up that'll be. Real shout out Nut nut for real.
Yeah, and shout out the no right.
Fish the playground please, Charlie, move on.
Add break. Yeah, go.
So, Sam. Do you like cock?
So Jack, do you find it hard to keep up with all the news and
counter strike? I do.
(36:59):
I took a weekend off and I came back to six new IGL's, 3
retirements and apparently Valvi's water boy got picked up
by a top 20 team. Right, that's why I've been
relying on the TLDR newsletter. It's a biweekly e-mail that
keeps you up to speed on everything in the CSC without
needing scroll Reddit for three hours while questioning your
life choices. Yeah, it's like if FHRDV for a
(37:21):
baby with your funniest friend who actually watches every game
yet. Quick hits of news, spicy
officer moves, upcoming match schedules, and even some insider
gossip. Old killer, no filler.
And let's be honest, some of these tournament formats you
need a guy just to figure out who's playing who.
TLDR breaks it all down so you actually know what the Hell's
going on. Plus, it's funny.
(37:42):
Like actually funny. It's like reading a group chat
between smart CS fans who roast everything insight but still
care deeply about the game. So if your brain's full but your
heart still beats for Counter Strike, do yourself a favour,
sign up for the TLDR newsletter.It's free, fast, and guaranteed
to make you smarter, or at leastsound smarter in Twitch chat.
Check out the link down below and subscribe, because the only
(38:03):
thing more tragic than missing amajor upset?
It's not even knowing it happened.
TLDR you don't have time to readeverything, you still want to
sound like you did. Yeah.
So we're back, Jack. We've we've, we've got to talk
about this tournament now, mate.As you sort of let in let in too
(38:28):
before the outbreak, before the job open thing of the week, this
kind of is a tournament that Phase could win.
There's three teams that can winthe tournament 4 and they are
Falcons G2 phase Mongols. You're being fucking generous to
phase here. No, but.
As as we're saying, right, like like Phase are a team that can
(38:49):
just win shit is what I'm saying.
But no. OK, I don't think they can win
this. I think the first five teams
there can win it. Mongols V2 Aurora Fury Falcons.
So I don't. I don't.
Really want them, I don't want them.
To it, but they're playing. Aurora are playing strong, yeah,
but they're stronger than Fury. And star player matter.
Shit, they are abusing the star playing matter.
(39:15):
Go back to the top. Let's let's go through the games
that fucking happened. So Fisher Playground, it's a
tournament in Belgrade, Serbia. It's got an absolutely massive
fucking prize pool. For some reason still convinced
they're going the way of Yala Compass.
But anyway, games have happened,so let's talk about them.
Do you want to stop free O or O3O?
(39:36):
3 heroic have been shit. Heroic have been fucking
dreadful outside of Nilo. Milo has a 1.2 rating.
Oh I guess got a 1.2 ratings. They're out now.
The next highest was I think X filed on like 1.04.
Outcrim was 1.0. Liners was like 9 or some shit.
(40:00):
Which is like fine until you realize that Young Star was like
0.86. Which is fucking appalling for a
player that does now need to step up after they've lost.
And Tania. So sadly, I think with this 03
I'm going to declare Heroic a dead team.
(40:23):
Yeah. Not in the sense that they're
dead like game Legion or Liquid or Phase.
Just just completely dead. In the sense that they're now
going to be fucking rubbish and it'll just be about how quickly
Nilo can get himself a move. Yeah, yeah.
There are three team. Which I think, by the way, just
(40:44):
before we move on. Yeah, also a shame for Linus
because I think he'd actually been quite impressive throughout
the year. And I think now that will taper
off because there's only so much.
You can do with yeah, which probably honestly, yeah, not as
underrated, yeah. But like, I think anyone who's
like followed like the sort of Swedish TO2C, like knew Neela
(41:06):
was going to be very good and then obviously he got signed and
then didn't really play because of whatever reasons there were.
Wanted to finger his bum hole orsome shit I don't know.
I'm going to pretend you didn't say that.
Well, listen brother, if they'renot going to give me a reason,
I'm going to attribute one that isn't true.
Entirely fabricated. I work for the Sun.
(41:26):
Well, I don't, but I did work for Jackson.
That's the next best thing. Oh yes, and Lin Vision, we
didn't talk about it. I'm so sad about that.
I love Lin Vision, Charlotte Westmoreland.
I really do love Linvision. We'll, we'll we'll circle back
around China in a bit of a SEC. Yeah, yeah, we've got a little,
a little 4. Experiment VP VP of shit.
(41:47):
Oh my God, VP are hopeless. Are they getting battered?
How? How's that?
How's that game going? Because they are playing right
now. Fuck, you know they're on a map.
No way. How do 3D Max give them a map?
And it's currently 1111 on map 3.
What the fuck? Oh my God.
So they're playing just two Jack, right?
(42:08):
So right now VP are playing a game against 3D Max, which you
can likely see on the screen. I imagine it's map 3 that does
2/11/11, right? Flit is top of the scoreboard.
He's 20 and 13. Look, he's top of Oh, you've
brought it up. Brilliant look at I see.
(42:29):
Yeah, bloody hell. Look at He's fucking hopeless.
He's. Ping I'm 21 ADR.
Actually useless. How?
How can you orp on dust 222 rounds into it?
Well 23 rounds into a game and you're 4:00 and 12:00 Actually
how? Like you are fucking hopeless.
(42:49):
I need to see at the end of his game.
Yeah, at the end of this game. I need to see his opening kill
staff. Surely he was just losing orp
fights because there's no excuselike.
He just. He just got to.
Kill it wasn't very good before cloud nine, it wasn't very good.
Danny Jokla, he wasn't really like he's not very good.
(43:13):
He's just, he's just a bit crap.Yeah and I mean it seems that VP
are somehow going to win this game, which again like only
furbs my disappointment in the fact that 3D Max fucking exist.
Got a fucking dislike free D Max.
But seriously, like versus pro like this team is fucking horrid
(43:35):
and I know how to fix it too. Wrong as.
Well, I know how to fix it. It's so easy to fix.
It's so easy to fix. I I bet you can say exactly what
the fix is because it's it's that easy.
Not for me. Oh.
I forgot. You're fucking hell, I really
hate doing this with you. No, it's Jane.
(43:56):
The fix is Jane. It was.
It's the the move they should have never done.
They should have never, ever kicked Jane.
Because at least now they had a style.
They had a system of Jane A. System, yes.
It was recognizable now now it'sit's just this is probably like
what face it is like in the CIS region.
(44:18):
Yeah, now it's. This team is just.
Now it's just Perfecto trying tolearn how to IGL on the fly and
some fellow named Toro like my God just just kick that Toro
fucker. Bring that like a day.
Yeah, you've got plamas on your bench.
Yeah, bring in Plamas, get Jane back.
Easy fucking peasy. Because Jane is absolutely
(44:41):
cooking for Paravision. Like Charlie.
Pull up paravision, get up theirrecent results.
Look how many games they're winning.
Look, look at that. That is a fucking sea of wins
against some decent teams. And by the way as well, in that
time, Jane has picked up 106 clutches.
(45:04):
In six months, he's got 106 clutches.
Yourself. By the way, right if we if we
then look at tier one level? Also, sorry, Belton ARC is an
awesome name. If we look at tier one level and
if we if we're even really fuck off, if we're even really
generous, OK, and we say versus top 50, which Jame is top at
(45:27):
still with 103, the next highestis Demka on 66.
The highest tier one level player is Woxick on 57.
This is Jame back to his best actually.
And it's not like he's playing against completely crap teams
either. So why the fuck is he not
playing for Virtus Pro? But actually why is he not
(45:48):
playing for it is game time. Are they annoyed at him for the
gooning, do you reckon? Is that it?
One should never be annoyed at someone for gooning Jack.
Trying to cover your own back here I see.
Possibly. Moving on.
To the rest of it, yes Sir. Like this, this fucking.
VP of fucked. This organization just angers
(46:10):
me. Like it's so easy.
You've got. Perfection.
Also, like, I don't want to be aDick.
Like like every press release they put out, every statement.
I don't know if you could just poorly translate it.
It's just written in this like really just weird weird style
like like. That's probably a translation.
Maybe, but. Although Spirits Spirit have
(46:34):
some very strong English speakers in the organization,
actually. Yeah, Well, yeah, VP, you lot
aren't making the major. Just just kick IC, kick this
Toro guy, buy back Jane whateverit costs, and reinstate Flamus
because you spent a million on him and now he's in contract
hell. VP has changed the name to We
(46:54):
Are Very Sorry. Gaming to get Jane back though,
because they're very sorry. For move on go back to Fisher.
Please Charlie, I need to remember what teams are there
because fucking these type of tournaments aren't real to me.
Falcons are doing well. They're.
Real Falcons are looking very strong.
(47:15):
As are Aurora, much my dismay. No, we like Aurora.
We just find them frustrating. I don't like the fans.
Well, quite. We should say that more so we
get traction to the podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
People hating us, Aurora. Fans come here.
Aurora fans are stupid they threaten people all the time and
(47:38):
team bad. Can't IGL need to frag but
sometimes don't frag? Star player meta abusers.
Star player meta abusers. Et cetera.
Yeah, we're cardio overrated. Yeah, please give us hate.
We will thrive from the attention you bring us.
(47:58):
This is needed G2. That's all good, Obstaferia.
Yeah, they're good. They're good.
They're obviously like a little a little shaky after having just
won an event they didn't expect to win, but I think that's
completely understandable. Phase A phase the Mongols.
Actually I've been quite disappointed by.
(48:20):
Yeah, they got right in his number one team and then they're
like, oh. Well, I really wanted them to
come in and just like wipe the floor free O or less.
Yeah, they lost the 3D Max, don't they?
So. They lost the fucking 3D Max and
then I think Lin Vision and Tyloo both gave.
A closer game A. Harder game.
Than they probably, I'm realistically like, looking just
(48:41):
at writing, ranking alone. They should have walked through
both those teams, really. Yeah.
Well, I mean like I'm a. Big, I will say it.
Thailand, I think Thailand have a lot more going for them than
than vision. But Mongols are like typically a
slow starter team anyway so I'm not too worried.
But you you. It's fair to expect more, I
think. Yeah, yeah.
(49:05):
As for the other teams, FURIA have looked strong.
I think them losing to Aurora isa disappointment though given
what what we think about Aurora,I do think it's a
disappointment. What do you think of Aurora shit
Yeah, it is. But also like this figure team,
(49:29):
like I, I, I'm still quite excited by them, right?
But they've like it insists uponitself that they're a weird team
in in essence, right? No.
It's a team. That team shouldn't really work.
It's a bit freaky there's. No, but you say it shouldn't
really work. It only shouldn't work because
of the basis of like nationalityand yeah, yeah, yeah,
communication. You actually look at the role.
(49:51):
So the the the full on role shitand it's probably the most
perfect team encounter. Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree.
But yeah, again though, like this team five years ago
shouldn't have existed on paper.Is that fair to say?
Right. I like it.
I like it. Yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan.
(50:14):
It's also nice to see Pain playing a bit better as well,
because I do like Pain. Liquid can go fuck themselves.
Behave. Australis can go fuck themselves
and Legacy. I'm sorry, I just cannot find it
within me to care. I like Dumao and that's all I
have to say. About never said that really
(50:36):
Elliott, his parents, oh. Well, that's a bit me.
Is Lato on legacy? Yes.
OK, OK. Is that just all you?
Yeah. All right, fair enough, fair
enough. Should we do our interest in
full experiment then? Yeah, I'm not regular thinking,
(50:58):
but. I'll.
Close close out the episode. Yes.
So obviously you and I quite like Ty Lou.
We think they're quite good. We think they're a growing team.
And it's also quite hard to not likely envision, frankly, just
because the Gal List crew did some incredible PR work for them
during the major. It's crazy, like a team can
(51:20):
become a fan favorite just by being interviewed by by BT and.
Yes but that Amelia interview isthe greatest thing in counter
psych history. It's so much better than GE
eating ice crew. So played out, played out,
hasn't it really? Yeah.
So my question, Yeah, Well, my question.
Jack, Yeah. No, I think we both agreed that
(51:45):
Tyler were the better team that actually stand a chance of
pushing further and doing something similar to the
Mongols, right? Like maybe not.
They did win that, didn't they? Fisher Playground one maybe.
Maybe they can't be the level ofthe Mongols, but maybe they can
continue to grow from where theyare now.
More tier one experience. To to a one of those top 7 vRS.
(52:08):
That's the peak, right? Something like that.
Should you be the top five? But we talk like, are we talking
top five consistent or just who they made it?
Let's let's give them like a top10 consistent then I guess it's
maybe more more fit. I think this team can be top 10
consistent, but that does dependon other teams getting stronger
(52:33):
as we think they will as to whoever that changes.
So my question Jack, are there any players that you would take
from Lin Vision to put on Ty Liuto make a Chinese super team?
Because I don't think it's as easy as it as it seems.
But my metric is only on who hasgood names because I'll be
(52:54):
honest, outside of GI don't knowwho does what and I don't want
to pretend I do. OK, well, Zaka's an author.
Attacker. No Zaka.
Oh, Zaka. Yeah, I just said like that
makes sense. Yeah, well, no, because you've
got G and he's Chinese. Zaibu.
(53:17):
Because so we can stay. Well, because this is the thing,
but this is the thing, right, Charlie, if you if you pull up G
in the other tab like this is something that's worth
comparing. Look at G's rating, look at
Zaca's rating. But there is but there is one
big difference. Zaca's a lot better at shooting
the gun. Go back on G80 Free Utility G's
(53:42):
also enabling the time. He plays a lot more.
So that's like, I actually thinkthat the idea of this Chinese
super team is potentially a verydangerous one for the Chinese
teams. I I also think think that Tyler
Le Mission rear atom, like the sort of the three orgs.
(54:05):
This is the first time we've probably had like within China,
like like a real tier one and a bit team like you'd how about
the old Tai Loo, like the captain Moe and shit, like like
at the majors, right, They'd come through the the Asian minor
or whatever. It'd show up that they'd do some
(54:26):
gimmicky stuff. People are like, Oh no, wow,
awesome, good, good for them. And then you wouldn't see the
first for the rest of the year, right, Yeah, Tai Loo are every
event basically, and every eventis a little bit of a lower tier
Tai Loo vision right as well. So yeah, we're already in a good
place. And Tai Loo are also in the in
(54:46):
the place that the Mongols were a couple of years ago.
Were they? They threatened.
They threatened to do a little better.
They did win a tournament, whichMongols didn't manage when?
Mongols were IHC, right? Like they would like get to the
play insurance and like maybe yeah, get a series, yeah.
And they were still fun favourites.
People still wanted them to do well, right?
Yeah, you know, without the fucking PR of Thailuber.
(55:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. True, true, true.
I think people just like Mongolia.
Yeah. Scream, scream if you love
Mongolia. Yeah.
So I don't know. So Mercury's calling, right?
And I don't think the calling isan issue.
Well, I thought Mercury was, butthen Dickel said it was a
tacker. But didn't you check it on
(55:31):
Wikipedia? Wikipedia said mercury Mercury,
but I. Also, I'll trust Likipedia.
I know like old Tyloo, like would just kind of change who
called. I think it was kind of just they
all spoke. So maybe that's a a system or a
style thing from Chinese CS. Whether there's not really a
dedicated leader, I don't know. I don't speak Mandarin, so I
don't know what they're saying in the team talks.
(55:52):
But we can, we can. We can also attribute and
fabricate whatever we want actually.
So no one calls at all. The what I would just, if it was
the worst player on Tyler, replace them with Westmelon.
Not that I think Westmelon is much better.
(56:12):
He just has a good name. That's an awesome name, and
Amelia Quack is really good as well, but as a name I don't know
if he's a good player. Is that what it actually is?
I say quack. I don't know if it's meant to
be, I think. I think it is.
It's good. Quack is good.
He's not. He's not particularly good.
He's quite rubbish. He might be.
He actually might be the RGL. Sue's pretty all right, isn't
he? I think he's OK.
(56:33):
I thought W Mellon was the RGL of of limitation.
What's? Already mine does it.
Amel, check this. I was a curious action choice,
huh? But I'm not going to draw too
much attention to. No, no, no, don't please.
So it says W Milan is the captain, so I assume he's the
IGL. He is the IGL.
So in that case, like the West Melon, like Mercury, trade off
(56:56):
is a thing. I think again, Mercury probably
wins out because we envision ourkind of only good at 2 maps,
which is a shame. I think the one you the 1 you
really have to talk about is Starry because, well, he's
living vision star player. It's like, it's like it's his
name. Outside of Zaca, but again, like
(57:18):
the Zaca G trade off is one thatlike you can't make base off
rating alone because utilities such an important part of that
when it comes to system. And I imagine, you know, like
you port over Westmelon, he takes Zaca, you keep Mercury, he
keeps GI. Just, I know this is obviously a
hypothetical, but do you think like these these things need to
(57:39):
happen or they just need to keepplaying to get better?
I think. Like can they just, you know,
incubate a bit more? I think Ty Lue could incubate a
bit more. I think I'd be looking to
replace attacker being being realistic.
Yeah. Like I think if attacker's not
(58:01):
idealing, you probably can find a player better than attacker.
I think if having a support, if opera is is so important to you,
then obviously you don't look toreplace GI.
Think if you if you want more impact out of Europe, then yeah,
sure, you get Zacho, but Mosaic Mercury Jam young, I see no
reason to to to change them. Lin Vision, though, that's a
(58:26):
team where if you want to grow, you probably do look to make
some changes. Yeah, I mean, like I said, Mr.
Mr. Quack's not very good at it so.
No, no, it seems like the most. Obvious candidate for, you know.
I was going to say the most comedic book on the planet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yes, also he does seem like
an obvious candidate to replace.He is their worst.
(58:48):
Is it just funny because he doesn't know what they're saying
to him? No, I think he had some comedic
timing with it. It's intentional or he's just
processing what? I think we should leave this one
here and I think we should end the episode.
That suits me fine mate. Yeah, let's let's do that.
It's like bang on an hour. So yeah, we'll be back next
(59:10):
week. I've been Sam.
My Twitter's probably below my face.
Does it go above? Below.
I don't know. I don't watch this shit.
I don't want to hear Jack talk anymore.
Yeah. E Jack.
Hello. Fucking bye even.
Yeah, I've just, I've just pointed that way.
I don't know if you go that way I.
Do I'm on this? I'm on.
Do you? That was good for me.
Come here, I have 5. Come on shout out Charlie pretty
(59:36):
pretty Charlie. Shout out James just somewhere
else. Shout out rest TLDR, read the
newsletter, subscribe to the newsletter, follow us, join the
discord and if you want to sponsor us, we really will take
anything you're. Twerking bro.
Anything. I'm leaving that there before
you actually get your ass out. Bye.
(01:00:24):
Music.
So, Jack. Hello son.
What if, right? What if you were a really,
really shit offer and you were French, which makes it
infinitely worse, And then somehow for some reason you
ended up on a tier one team and even though you're a your coach
(00:25):
tweeted that he had some degree of faith in you for some reason
and you weren't going to get cut.
Everyone knew you were fucking dog shit.
And eventually you did get cut after after less than three
months on the team. What would you?
What would you do in? That instance I I would be
aghast. Which is relevant because that's
the surname of the man we're talking about.
(00:48):
Oh, it is Jeremy Gast. Jeremy Kersey Gast.
Fucking rubbish player. Actually a rubbish player so to
to to catch you all up Kersee who was signed by Game Legion in
July if I remember correctly to replace Griks not Griks.
(01:11):
No, the other one. Slend, that's the blown they
better spend yeah yeah, also crap.
They've had some crap up, isn't there?
They have and Slend annoys me because I actually thought he
was decent. Then a call was that past?
Yeah, and he's crap and all, butanyway, yeah, Kirsty was signed
to replace Slend. No one really knew why.
(01:32):
The best team we'd ever played for was Gen.
One, which wasn't a particularlygood team.
Like there's like 6 play for them or something.
No, that was like gentlemates isn't no like the the team that
gentlemates signed originally anyway, I.
(01:53):
Don't know. They had anyway.
Sure. Anyway, Kirsty's fucking rubbish
and the bench name and they're signing Hypex which is another
player from Betclick, the team that face signed Jacob from.
Is betclick is also apogee, right?
They're synonymous. Yes, but.
(02:15):
I don't think one's a sponsor orone's not.
I'm not. So I believe Betclick is a
sponsor and the org is apogee. But in CS sometimes we do weird
things where we only refer to teams by their sponsors.
But then like obviously have teams in other games and in
other games they are referred toas betclick Apogee, so.
(02:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
We're not following them red below G Sports, are we?
No, we're not actually Speaking of they just got bought.
Bought. Yeah.
It's dog. Yeah, yeah, it's literally
Charlie. Click on the HLTV logo.
There you go. Chili's.
(02:57):
Group Chili's group, you'll never guess what country they're
from. Just like every other fucking
organization in E sports. Yeah, based in multi fan tokens.
OK, more of that bullshit. Well, yeah, yeah, I don't really
get crypto so I won't pretend to, but as long as it means
there's more money for me, then I'm OK with it.
(03:17):
I agree. I agree.
Anyway, back-to-back to gay backlegion.
See the The funny thing about this move isn't that curse is
shit. Since they announced it.
Yeah, it was announced about 10 minutes before they played
Liquid and then Kersey absolutely shit on Liquid in map
(03:38):
one. It was back to his.
Spread them. Back to his normal self in in
map 2, but he didn't shit on them in map 1.
There's always something about, you know, a player with a point
to prove right, A chip on chip on the metaphorical shoulder.
Yeah. And if we if we look at Kersey's
match history, he actually he does have quite a bit of a point
to prove because as you can see from the sea of red that's now
(04:01):
on your screen, he's not a very good player.
Even when he goes positive, he has a negative rating.
That's like, you know, he's smiling his photo, so he looks
happy to be. There, like it.
It's actually quite impressive. Like you look at his, you look
at his first series against. So his highest rating ever?
Well, you know, since he was in that series against Liquid.
(04:22):
No, no, no, no. There's one against big.
What were the better than 2.14? Wait, was it 2.14 against
liquid? In the one map, yeah, 187 is
big. Top Yeah, Oh yeah, 2.14 yeah.
So that's his, his best. Map But the river?
What was his round swing? That's the question we all want.
(04:45):
To know. Oh yeah, let's see his round
swing in that match. Charlie, go on.
All ever his entire round swing.Oh, he's entire round swing
would be pretty. The what?
The the other one, OK. Yeah, it does.
Too. It does too.
What's his round swing plus 15? Wow people tell me that's good
(05:06):
but I don't know because I don'tcare about round swing.
RWS mate. What about RWS?
It's RWS for nerds and Neeks. That's what round swing is.
Yeah, no, it exactly is that. But yes, so curse he just he
(05:27):
just isn't very good and the signing never really made sense
when they made it because like there was nothing impressive
about it. Wasn't you?
Weren't you weren't good before it?
This is the yeah, yeah. Like your PRS and your Towsons,
they're good. I mean, Res was obviously
already proven, but these guys were like, you know, like, so
(05:49):
Res has been playing. Towson wasn't really good.
No, no, no. What?
I'm no like Rez was what I'm saying is like Towson and PR
like were like, you know, up andcoming knew they were like, oh,
are they good? Are they?
Yeah, PR had a lot of hype around.
Them that was hype yeah, whereasbut even like.
But even outside of game. Kiersey is the epitome of of the
(06:10):
blood fixes on the team meme, both in like the way he just
like looks in team talks and stuff as well as just on on the
scoreboard he just seems out of place.
But like. I said.
Even outside of game illusion, like when when you look at the
authors that people have signed like Moladoy and grips were very
(06:33):
impressive at the level they were playing at cursor you see
there like 1.1 free rate in which is only like I think it's
.02 lower than hypex. But Becklick playing much better
than than Gen. one did. Gen. one were not a good team.
They were not playing against good teams.
(06:53):
Betclick at least do. Plus Hypex actually played quite
well at PGL Bucharest earlier this year.
Like the the Kirsty move just never made sense.
And Charlie, if you if you go onthat tweet from Ash, look how
long ago that there was already rumours that they wanted to get
(07:14):
rid of like this was what? So it's like 3 weeks ago from
now, but a month after they signed courtesy.
And yes, like you know, some part of that is, is.
But it is true that Game Legion were interested in Greeks,
right? Yes, they were before.
Before Heroic signed him. This like the Gromov guy?
(07:36):
He's pretty. He's pretty accurate I feel
like. Yeah, yeah.
And this is the thing, right? This could have been a stab in
the dark because they were interested in Greeks.
And then obviously it's slightlyfortuitous the Greeks got
benched even faster than Kirsty did, but like.
Was all right. That's the difference.
Yeah, well, he was OK. He's better than Kirsty.
(07:59):
Was but but how funny is it thatAsh has tweeted this out and
three weeks later just cut the bloke anyway?
I mean. I'm not going to say it's
entirely Ash, right, but it probably is like he does do the
scouting and stuff, right? So.
He must have control. Over and this is I think not, we
spoke about this before, like when they signed Kirstie or
maybe like a couple weeks ago. And I, I, I did applaud Ashley's
(08:23):
scouting and I think I said thatlike Kirstie wasn't the one bro.
Like maybe he just can't scout orpers.
Yeah, but some people, some people don't get Orping, do
they? Like MSL famously didn't.
And like, it's why he started Orping.
Well, it's why he started Orping, because he just like he
couldn't. Is that why you ought?
Yeah, like he couldn't fucking call for an ORPA because he
(08:46):
thought they were all brain dead.
Yeah. But then again, it's that's.
Tangier And what's that? Who?
Who's who's the other one that? Streets won't forget Mertz.
Orpas always do crap. Dexter.
Dexter is crap at ideally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean Dexter's, it's not just Orpas.
Well, quite, but. But it's more accretious with
orpas, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but look how good.
(09:07):
Look how good Torsi is now. Exactly.
Exactly. And, and people wanted him cut
when Dexter was there. Dexter's just fucking rubbish
when it comes to orders. Like maybe Ash has that same
blind spot, which is OK because he's, you know, he's pretty good
at scouting everyone else. It's a blind spot, not bald
spot. That's just quite kind because
(09:28):
he does up brothers as well. But.
Well, yes, but can contextually Jack.
It's not. Relevant.
No, it's not. Are there any events in it?
Just just run the intro, Charlie.
I'm not doing this right.
(09:54):
So in more roster news, Twist isgoing back to phase.
He's rubbish. It's all over, It's all over.
No. No in other face related news.
(10:15):
Jack, I'm sorry, we've got to pause for a second.
I'd like to point out that in the minute while we collected
ourselves, after I said run the intro, Jack said to me, I've got
a bit and I thought he was goingto have a joke.
But the joke is the move. All he did was the no.
I get that, Jack, I'm just not sure that bit was as good as you
(10:38):
laugh. No, I did, but it was.
Comment down below if you laugh at that moment guys, thank you.
That funny, funny moment carry. On.
What you were going to say? Wow, wow phase of facts, aren't
they? And it's come out that phase
temper may or may not be a paedophile as well.
So not a good week for fans of the team.
(11:04):
I'm not saying the roster movement and tempers sleeping
with miners have anything in relation, actually they just
happened at the same I'm. Not sure I really want to get
into temp for talking about talking, sleeping, something to
do with miners. I'm not like I'm.
No, no, but. I'm going to park that one,
Jack. It did.
It's happened. Apparently I'm going to park it
(11:25):
like Twist parked his career at Liquid.
That was. That was a segue, I believe it.
Gets back to what we should be taught anyway.
Yeah, so twist after what, 18 months of pure dog shit on
Liquid? He's going back to phase.
And you seem to be quite negative about this, but I
actually am a fan. The move makes sense.
(11:48):
I I just him going to liquid wasthe silliest thing ever.
The move makes sense under certain circumstances.
Well, yes, if there's two Hobbitthat calls here, right?
Twist is replacing Elise and Jacob is replacing Rain.
They just happened at different times.
If that's the case, that's all all good.
(12:09):
If what the rumors do be saying that a frozen might be in an RV.
I don't know how substantial substantiated those rumors are,
but you've just placed, you knowyour main star player with like
another one and not actually solve the the problems you have
(12:29):
in the team and also how you usethe retire as well.
I mean OK if frozen stays on phase then I think this is a
good move, but the problem is isthat no one yet knows who Twist
(12:53):
is replacing. Now some people are saying
Jacob, which would make no senseand would actually be quite
cruel considering he's just joined the team.
It would be stupid, yes, like both in game and like as a as a
brand and how how you operate it's.
Yeah, absolutely. So I'll park that as not
(13:15):
happening. Yeah, yeah.
No, I agree. Then people are saying it would
be Carican in that Carican mightretire and become the coach and
we're not going to go back down the.
No, no, don't. Back down the Carrigan would be
a bad coach, bad coach St. But let's be clear on something
(13:37):
that would be fucking horrible. That Carrigan retiring and then
presumably Twist becoming the IGL would probably be the worst
of the three instances. Like he just really wouldn't be
good because we've seen Twist IGL and he's not fucking good at
it. No.
And you know, arguably he's got better players on phase.
(14:00):
But it. Wouldn't have and it wouldn't
make a difference because the issue was with that team was not
the players, it was the calling.Yeah, the players weren't happy
or you know, whatever either, but.
But then there's then there's also people saying, oh, well,
what if, what if rain are at GL?So it's like, well, what, what
the fuck's the point in that? There's there's like no point.
Why is he going to roll roll swap at 32?
(14:25):
Rain. He's not 32.
He's. He's old man, he's on baby, he's
on baby #2. I'm looking.
I'm looking. What?
You're wrong 31 All right, all right, 31 I.
Thought he was 29. Yeah.
I mean, look. I mean, it was two years ago,
but. Yeah, great.
Thanks for that. Like it's an appropriate age for
(14:46):
him to start IGL in. But you know, he does have like
fucking two hips. What's the point?
Just fucking retire, man. He's yeah, he's literally had
time off like literally this year because of a.
Kid if if you're going to be in IGL.
Which is which is super fine obviously, but I'm just saying.
IGL like go and do it in the online surrogate with the Nordic
team. Like build up some some new
Norwegians don't do it in phase.OK, he turned 31 last month, by
(15:08):
the way, so like he's. OK.
Just freshly 31 regardless though, Like that guy's in the
twilight of his career, right? Yeah.
Is, is a father of two going to have the additional time that's
needed to be in Niger, you know,doing all the and all that shit?
No, and he shouldn't fucking want to.
No, he's, he's done his grind. Do you know what I mean?
(15:31):
But that does bring us to the most likely option in that rain
will be leaving the team for twists.
Yeah. And I actually feel like it's
kind of a shame. Yeah, well, I mean.
(15:53):
Reign's been all right in the last few months, Like he's, he's
been noticeably better than he was in the first half of the
year, and he's still not like, as good as he was two or three
years ago. Yeah, but maybe in a team that
actually makes sense. You know, one that doesn't put
him in a Liege on the same team.Again, like like faces issues
(16:14):
are the players playing bad is probably more of a symptom than
the actual disease itself, right?
Yeah, all. Right.
It does make the most sense on paper.
Yeah, because when you when you sign Jacob, you've signed a long
term rain replacement. Well, he's a kid, he's someone
you can mould and, and, and, youknow, bring into that role.
(16:37):
Yeah, like we we said it on the podcast a few a few weeks ago
when Elise was was cut for Jacob.
Jacob is another an aggressive player.
He's another player that in theory steps on Rey's toes.
So clearly Phase didn't think the system was the problem.
But actually, if they're signed Twist, no, they do think it's a
problem. Yeah.
(16:59):
Because they're still looking tomove away from it in some way.
Because unless frozen goes and twist.
Goes it's like they sucked off Brokey, right?
And whether it really was because she knew she wanted time
off, whatever. Brooke had been alright since
since had been back, right? Yeah, Hypothesis concluded
Brookie probably wasn't the issue.
He was not playing well for for a long time, right?
Let's give him that. But you know, provably not the
(17:22):
problem. It brought a lesion didn't get
any better, right? I'd say at least probably it was
part of the problem, right? Oh absolutely.
Like that's so we face. Players have said that enough.
Yeah, Frozen is very, very good,right?
Very good. Reigns still decent but you know
(17:46):
does this face him want to win this year or do they want to win
in the next 5 years right? Like do they want to be a
contender for a while now or or they want to just have another
year of of like looking at a fewtrophies?
Well, well, this is the thing right?
Like Rain is 31 carrier swap 3435. 57, yeah.
Something like that, but eventually you have to move on
(18:06):
from these people and A twist could be a part of that.
I don't particularly want to seehim IGL again, but maybe on
phase he could sacrifice his ownego to IGL and then we're
talking a different story. I I think the thing we need to
look at and like without like letting the style to blindness
is that Twist was never the bestplayer on phase, right?
(18:30):
No, that, that's the thing. Like.
Him coming in now that kind of expedition is on, is now on him
which. And that's and like, personally,
I just think that's wrong. What that that is not on him or.
No, that that expectation will be on him.
I think it's, I think it's ridiculous.
It shouldn't be like I agree it shouldn't be because he never
(18:51):
was that guy and not saying he'snot good, he obviously fucking
is good. But does does he fix if if it's
the move that we think it's going to be right?
So Jacob goes into rain spots, twists, gets the lucky passive
shit. Does that make phase better?
(19:14):
Yes. Does it fix them?
I still don't think so. I.
Mean. I don't think Carrigan mid run
master class is. I mean.
He's going to make it, should make it work anymore.
Here's the thing, right. So if we look at if we look at
(19:36):
phase back in 2022, their like strongest period in CS ever,
like outstripping even the the OG super team.
They were so good because brokeyrocks and twists and rain would
pop up here and there. All had an extended period of
very good form. They were a back heavy team that
(19:56):
relied on clutches, relied on winning 3V fives with.
Robs, Twists and Brokey all playing parts in that.
Twist was the aggressor when they're in that position and
Robs and Brokey did the majorityof the clutching.
But if Twist needed to, Twist could do it too.
Just to stop, you know, though, I don't think that's a system.
I don't think being back heavy is a system.
It's a it's a style, right? No, it is.
(20:20):
It is. Like this is a method of play,
like if you method of players like these guys need to clutch.
I I understand there is, there is gun play in the game, right?
And there's a degree of that obviously, but system to me is
like, you know, MSL snappy type shit right when when there's
like. Call out of spawn and do the
(20:41):
rest off of. Well, not necessarily, no, no,
but but. That is what that is, you know.
Yeah. The The thing is, Jack, The
thing is like we we could argue this semantic for a while, but
it it was the system of that team, the.
System of that, team that that. Carrigan, Carrigan and Rain
would sacrifice themselves to give those 3 the backstabs of
(21:02):
winning the round. Yes yeah.
Going to become a pilot and whatnot.
No accident that was good from you anyway.
Yeah, I was trying really hard. I thought about it.
Yeah. Anyway that that was their
system? Yeah.
You look at them in 2025, is Brokey close to the level he was
(21:25):
then? No.
Can Frozen ever be close to the level Rupps was then?
I really like frozen. Not sure he can.
I think you know, like he's he'sRupps light twist.
Twist obviously can reach that level, but there is now a
problem with Twist and it's not the expectation that everyone
(21:48):
else places on him and it's the expectation that he placed upon
himself and the ego he has. If Twist is going to make this
second phase stint work where the second liquid stint didn't,
it's because he needs to accept what he fucking is as a player.
Yes. On Liquid, you know, he went
back there to be the star, He went back there to be the guy
that he wasn't the first time around.
He wasn't a Liege, he wasn't naps.
(22:08):
He was the fucking glue the first time around.
He was a glorified support player and he wanted to go in.
He wanted to be the hero, to finally bring Liquid a trophy,
to give them their second Grand Slam, the major.
They didn't get all this fuckingbullshit and it's they just
didn't. It didn't work because Twist as
a star actually was just a shit version of Blame F.
(22:32):
He still had good ratings, but he was a shit version of
Blaimath. He was the same type of luxury
star that doesn't actually get you anywhere unless.
You yeah, no, he's that's what we're trying to say again, this
phase now 2025 phase doesn't have a rops to do that.
It's the same way like, like, you know, rocks on the team.
Close in Frozen. Close, yes.
But like at the level that thoseplayers are at, I don't think
(22:56):
those cuts there, do you know what I mean?
Yeah. But that actually 5% is, is is
big. Yes, but so the point I was
going to make after that is thatphase in 2022 is probably the
only time phase have ever been consistent.
Like yes, OK, there's the back end of 23, start of 24 where
(23:17):
they were making it to all thosefinals.
But like you could tell that phase because of rocks being
Inique and because they were already pretty much dead and go
phase put a lot of effort into two at the start and and being
ACS two team where other teams were still CS GO teams playing
(23:37):
CS2. So consistency has never really
been a thing that's that's come to phase.
I mean if like if you look how long it took them to win their
Grand Slam and and that's the consequence of the system they
play because the system only works if the free if.
People are performing. Passive stars are performing,
(23:59):
it's the limitations of it. It's I don't want to quote like
the self help shit, right, but it's like you've someone is like
you fall to your habits or whatever, right?
Like you fall to the level of your habits or your systems,
right. So if your system is good, your
peaks are better, right? But your baseline is good and
this is the phase issue right with with the phase system is
(24:22):
that without performance that their battle baseline is sub
subpar. Yeah, so.
Which is why that the phase bullshit thing exists, right?
That they can be dog shit for the first three games of the
tournament and then actually just win win the whole thing.
Yeah, so with with this team then, assuming it's Jacob
instead of rain and Frozen instead of rocks, yes, they can
win tournaments. Of course they can, because if
(24:44):
if the form hits in the right way, the way they play will win
rounds, it will grind out games.Will it be a clone?
Will it be a Krakow or a Major? Probably not.
And I think there's another reason for that as well, beyond
firepower differences. What?
Would that be? Well, I don't think Jacob or
(25:09):
Reiner good enough. I think.
I think if you have. I think if you have you.
Can give him chance to be but. I think if you have a Liege,
yeah, sure you can give Jacob chance to be, but I think if you
have a Liege that isn't a prick,then then should.
Have been winning more, yeah. Because like, look at spirit,
they've got donk, look at vitality, they've got flames.
(25:32):
Look at mouse, they've got exertion.
Falcons take your pick like but look at every every other top
team has an aggressive star. That is where phase had never
adapted to CS2. It's what got them behind.
Yes, they tried it with a Liege but obviously the team didn't
(25:53):
work. It's like, it's unfortunate that
destiny. Really wants to be aggressive.
Really. I think he probably does, so
he's always played best. Yeah, but then you you see him
in a round where people die at the start and he just takes his
heads off and no comms because he's pissed off that it didn't
go exactly how he wanted it. To well, true, but but but so
(26:14):
this is this is my thing when itwhen it comes to tournaments,
face could win. You look at like look at the one
they're currently playing in, right.
Look at Fisher playground. I know I mentioned Falcons there
and you know, I could also say the same with Kendar and maybe I
did mention Santaras for Furia and Aurora, but they could
(26:34):
obviously win something like Fisher Playground.
Of of course they could win something like that if if the
form hits. The right, they lost the
Falcons, right? So that's reasonable.
Yeah, but Falcons have looked very strong at this event.
Yeah, Falcons are a very, very good team.
Look at, look at them just off on paper, right?
So of course they could win an event like that, but as soon as
you throw like Mouse into the mix, spirit into the mix,
(26:57):
Vitality into the mix, I don't think they can beat them unless
they all hit. So this is the thing, right?
Maybe Phase are in a pretty slowtransitional era, but I think
they can still win tournaments. I think it's unfair to suggest
that they'll never be able to win tournaments.
(27:17):
It's just understanding what Phase are and what Phase have
always been. They're never going to be a
consistent threat until Kerriganis gone.
But then what? And.
Until the system changes to something that allows for more
front heavy action. What?
What was it that the United manager said?
It it's like if you want to change the system, you change me
(27:39):
or something like that, right? Yeah.
It that's literally it for phase, right?
Yeah, yeah. Quite a relevant, you know,
comparison because. This, this is the character
system. When it hasn't worked, it hasn't
worked and they've keep plowing through.
Like when when Brooke is being enough to dog shit, can't hit no
shot to save his life looking worse than wonderful.
(27:59):
They've still done it when Rob'shas been off form twists for
most of 2023 was crap. And they they push through
because it's their system, because they have no other
option, because rain couldn't bedunk or exertion or or flames.
He couldn't be any of those players.
So they had to push through withit.
And that probably is actually the real problem with phase.
(28:20):
And that probably will be the real problem with phase is that
they don't have enough firepowerin their aggression like they do
with their more passive. Figures just human me for a
second then OK if God forbid it is frozen out and he goes to an
RV. Oh.
My God. Who is he replacing and is it
Alexi? No frozen.
(28:41):
Frozen. Is it Alexi you make you make
Emma call? It's Alexi or Emma.
It feels like it should be right?
So it's it's 100% Alexi or Emma.And it's, it's, it's a hard one,
(29:02):
right? Because Igl's get the blame so
often, so many things. And you know that Blade is the
type of guy that will sit there and think I can turn this
secondary caller into a, into a primary caller.
But I do think it'd be Emma. I think Blade's also the type of
guy that's smart enough to understand that any team that he
(29:22):
gives Alexi B will be a strongerteam for it.
Alexei has now proved himself asNigel for all the for all the
doubts he had years ago, he has now proved himself.
And remember before JL decided he wanted to go like do fucking
drag racing or drifting or whatever the fuck he's doing now
like he Emma was the one on the chopping block.
(29:44):
We all like we knew that fucker was going like.
I. Don't like him?
Emma's a lovely person. Really, really lovely bloke.
I think also though, like, yeah,what you said about like Alexi
going to another team, like there's a reason that the
community was like Alexi was shit but teams kept kept signing
(30:07):
him. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah. Think about how shocked people
were when if you signed him. After it's kind of, yeah.
It's almost a shame. People like, you know, you know,
like Alexi like Cope kind of thing.
Yeah. It's a shame it took so long for
it to work out for him, for maybe him to get the credit he
deserves, right? But that's also when we talk
about like systems and stuff, right?
Like sometimes you need the right players.
(30:28):
Like you can't just kind of have5 dunks to make them play the
way Ty Lue play right? No, exactly.
Yeah. Which is actually something that
we'll get to later. We will.
We will. Talk about Fisher.
Is there much talk? About oh, wait, no, we can't.
(30:51):
Actually, we can't because we'vegot to take of the week and the
take of the week is is phase related.
So this one comes from at Queen Neo.
I believe they're in the discordlike an OG relay I think yeah.
Oh, look it up, look it up whileI go through the take, because
this take is, it's honestly fucking terrible.
(31:12):
It really is. So they said in in a response to
Charlie. You'll have to scroll up.
I can't remember what it was. Right.
OK, so they originally tweeted, OK, can I say something?
If Twister's replacing Jacob, I think that's the wrong move.
And Loki Carrigan should be ashamed of himself.
Fair enough. Nothing wrong with that.
(31:33):
Can't see them but I've I've seen the name of that before so.
Someone then responded this wouldn't make sense at all and
they've said yeah. And more importantly, how many
times will modern Carrigan abusestar player metters to to win
when he was supposed to be the IGL known to best utilise
rookies? Jacob getting replaced without
development is demoralising. OK, are we getting Carrigan and
(31:59):
Snappy confused or Carrigan and Hunden or Carrigan and numerous
other IG LS who are actually known for, you know, moulding
young players? Carrigan's generally had stars.
You know, Nico was not a rookie.Guardian was not a rookie.
Olofmeister was not a rookie. Yeah, before that, the Australis
(32:19):
team were not exactly rookies. In fact, the only.
And when there were him, so was Carrigan, actually.
Yeah, in fact, the only time youcan look at him, mate.
Well, not really, but, you know,as Nigel maybe.
Like mouse. Yeah, that's probably the only
time you can look him. It's like, OK, you don't have
real stars on your team. Like Device was a top free
(32:40):
player in the world from what, 2014?
Top five. Probably, yeah.
Like and also like the Maoist team as well.
Like the first team, like Frozenwas the star, was the the
rookie. You still had Chris J and
Woksick. Yeah, who were like extremely
experienced players like and andjust so just so just to be
(33:01):
clear, the end of this tweet is fine.
Yeah. Shout out Chris J.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Jacob should not be get
replaced. Absolutely.
I think he's just doing a littlebit of trolling.
We do a little trolling. We do a little.
Trolling but but what do you mean abuse star player matters?
I'm I'm still just confused. Yeah, what?
What is? What does that mean?
Oh you're abusing the the systembecause you have the best
(33:24):
players on a good team? Well, fuck Vitality.
Are you meant to sell for havinglike, shit player?
Like yeah, but no, but like Vitality.
Oh yeah, star player. Yeah, they do.
They have very good players. Like I'm not sure.
It's just really baffling. There's an issue that some
(33:48):
people see CS in a like a strategy game, right, when it's
an FPS with strategy, right, not, not vice versa.
And like you can like I've always been into the, the theory
craft, like plot out on the radar, how what things do and
how they operate and time and stuff.
That's cool. But you know, in the game.
(34:09):
Practice. No, you got to fuck you, You got
to shoot, you got to, you got tokill the kill people in front of
you, right? Like that.
That is objectively what happens, right?
Well, this. Is this is and who's good?
Who's good at killing people? Star players I was.
Waiting for you to make an awfuljoke, but yeah, star players is
the correct answer. And 10 points.
(34:29):
No, no, we don't need to go. There No, no, let's not do that.
But yeah, no, I agree, right. There's just so many idiots in
Counter Strike and it goes both ways.
There's the people that think that Counter Strike is some form
of a point and click adventure game.
Well, the only thing that matters is whether you can hit
ahead or not, which as you can see by Aurora, isn't the fucking
(34:50):
case. And and then there's these type
of idiots that are like, well ifI give ecstatic the greatest IGL
in the world, we will win a major.
Just not true. Is it?
I I I'd love to see nut nut comeup against dunk.
Like I mean funny, a player likenut nut shouldn't even be able
(35:11):
to connect to a server. I don't even know if he's bad.
I just don't fucking like. Him in that.
Order like I just don't like NutNut just because his name is
fucking Nut Nut. Is he any good?
Charlie, can you just, can you look quickly, please?
JB pull that up for me. I kind of want to know if he's
any good now. He's not bad.
Martin Holm Vestergaard. That's so Danish.
(35:33):
They won a tournament over the weekend.
All right. Did you watch it?
Absolutely fucking not. If I watched a tournament then
ecstatic can win. They did beat Fanatic.
They won Bet Click Clash summer 2025.
Yeah, it's a little. They beat Fanatic in the final
actually because it's put Fanatics vRS in slide out so.
(35:54):
It was a 2A2 day tournament in Gdansk.
Yeah, I obviously, you know, quite one fanatic to make it to
the major because. Yeah.
Big fan of Cypher, good kid. Yeah, yeah, shout out Jambo.
And also a big fan of Tiny Face.Also a big fan of Blame F.
I'm always be on the Blame F train.
I'll never get off that one. Because one day, inshallah, I
(36:17):
shall be proof correct. Yeah, fanatic, I'll win a Buddha
best, aren't they? Yes.
We'll just say it for the sound bite.
We'll say we'll have it. There.
Yeah, we'll say it just in. Case We'll do an episode where
we just name every team, I think, and then we'll have the
clips ready. Yeah, yeah.
We'll just, we'll just like, getthe recording.
We're right. We did it.
We said it right, you know. Short form content that fucking
(36:38):
makes us blow up that'll be. Real shout out Nut nut for real.
Yeah, and shout out the no right.
Fish the playground please, Charlie, move on.
Add break. Yeah, go.
So, Sam. Do you like cock?
So Jack, do you find it hard to keep up with all the news and
counter strike? I do.
(36:59):
I took a weekend off and I came back to six new IGL's, 3
retirements and apparently Valvi's water boy got picked up
by a top 20 team. Right, that's why I've been
relying on the TLDR newsletter. It's a biweekly e-mail that
keeps you up to speed on everything in the CSC without
needing scroll Reddit for three hours while questioning your
life choices. Yeah, it's like if FHRDV for a
(37:21):
baby with your funniest friend who actually watches every game
yet. Quick hits of news, spicy
officer moves, upcoming match schedules, and even some insider
gossip. Old killer, no filler.
And let's be honest, some of these tournament formats you
need a guy just to figure out who's playing who.
TLDR breaks it all down so you actually know what the Hell's
going on. Plus, it's funny.
(37:42):
Like actually funny. It's like reading a group chat
between smart CS fans who roast everything insight but still
care deeply about the game. So if your brain's full but your
heart still beats for Counter Strike, do yourself a favour,
sign up for the TLDR newsletter.It's free, fast, and guaranteed
to make you smarter, or at leastsound smarter in Twitch chat.
Check out the link down below and subscribe, because the only
(38:03):
thing more tragic than missing amajor upset?
It's not even knowing it happened.
TLDR you don't have time to readeverything, you still want to
sound like you did. Yeah.
So we're back, Jack. We've we've, we've got to talk
about this tournament now, mate.As you sort of let in let in too
(38:28):
before the outbreak, before the job open thing of the week, this
kind of is a tournament that Phase could win.
There's three teams that can winthe tournament 4 and they are
Falcons G2 phase Mongols. You're being fucking generous to
phase here. No, but.
As as we're saying, right, like like Phase are a team that can
(38:49):
just win shit is what I'm saying.
But no. OK, I don't think they can win
this. I think the first five teams
there can win it. Mongols V2 Aurora Fury Falcons.
So I don't. I don't.
Really want them, I don't want them.
To it, but they're playing. Aurora are playing strong, yeah,
but they're stronger than Fury. And star player matter.
Shit, they are abusing the star playing matter.
(39:15):
Go back to the top. Let's let's go through the games
that fucking happened. So Fisher Playground, it's a
tournament in Belgrade, Serbia. It's got an absolutely massive
fucking prize pool. For some reason still convinced
they're going the way of Yala Compass.
But anyway, games have happened,so let's talk about them.
Do you want to stop free O or O3O?
(39:36):
3 heroic have been shit. Heroic have been fucking
dreadful outside of Nilo. Milo has a 1.2 rating.
Oh I guess got a 1.2 ratings. They're out now.
The next highest was I think X filed on like 1.04.
Outcrim was 1.0. Liners was like 9 or some shit.
(40:00):
Which is like fine until you realize that Young Star was like
0.86. Which is fucking appalling for a
player that does now need to step up after they've lost.
And Tania. So sadly, I think with this 03
I'm going to declare Heroic a dead team.
(40:23):
Yeah. Not in the sense that they're
dead like game Legion or Liquid or Phase.
Just just completely dead. In the sense that they're now
going to be fucking rubbish and it'll just be about how quickly
Nilo can get himself a move. Yeah, yeah.
There are three team. Which I think, by the way, just
(40:44):
before we move on. Yeah, also a shame for Linus
because I think he'd actually been quite impressive throughout
the year. And I think now that will taper
off because there's only so much.
You can do with yeah, which probably honestly, yeah, not as
underrated, yeah. But like, I think anyone who's
like followed like the sort of Swedish TO2C, like knew Neela
(41:06):
was going to be very good and then obviously he got signed and
then didn't really play because of whatever reasons there were.
Wanted to finger his bum hole orsome shit I don't know.
I'm going to pretend you didn't say that.
Well, listen brother, if they'renot going to give me a reason,
I'm going to attribute one that isn't true.
Entirely fabricated. I work for the Sun.
(41:26):
Well, I don't, but I did work for Jackson.
That's the next best thing. Oh yes, and Lin Vision, we
didn't talk about it. I'm so sad about that.
I love Lin Vision, Charlotte Westmoreland.
I really do love Linvision. We'll, we'll we'll circle back
around China in a bit of a SEC. Yeah, yeah, we've got a little,
a little 4. Experiment VP VP of shit.
(41:47):
Oh my God, VP are hopeless. Are they getting battered?
How? How's that?
How's that game going? Because they are playing right
now. Fuck, you know they're on a map.
No way. How do 3D Max give them a map?
And it's currently 1111 on map 3.
What the fuck? Oh my God.
So they're playing just two Jack, right?
(42:08):
So right now VP are playing a game against 3D Max, which you
can likely see on the screen. I imagine it's map 3 that does
2/11/11, right? Flit is top of the scoreboard.
He's 20 and 13. Look, he's top of Oh, you've
brought it up. Brilliant look at I see.
(42:29):
Yeah, bloody hell. Look at He's fucking hopeless.
He's. Ping I'm 21 ADR.
Actually useless. How?
How can you orp on dust 222 rounds into it?
Well 23 rounds into a game and you're 4:00 and 12:00 Actually
how? Like you are fucking hopeless.
(42:49):
I need to see at the end of his game.
Yeah, at the end of this game. I need to see his opening kill
staff. Surely he was just losing orp
fights because there's no excuselike.
He just. He just got to.
Kill it wasn't very good before cloud nine, it wasn't very good.
Danny Jokla, he wasn't really like he's not very good.
(43:13):
He's just, he's just a bit crap.Yeah and I mean it seems that VP
are somehow going to win this game, which again like only
furbs my disappointment in the fact that 3D Max fucking exist.
Got a fucking dislike free D Max.
But seriously, like versus pro like this team is fucking horrid
(43:35):
and I know how to fix it too. Wrong as.
Well, I know how to fix it. It's so easy to fix.
It's so easy to fix. I I bet you can say exactly what
the fix is because it's it's that easy.
Not for me. Oh.
I forgot. You're fucking hell, I really
hate doing this with you. No, it's Jane.
(43:56):
The fix is Jane. It was.
It's the the move they should have never done.
They should have never, ever kicked Jane.
Because at least now they had a style.
They had a system of Jane A. System, yes.
It was recognizable now now it'sit's just this is probably like
what face it is like in the CIS region.
(44:18):
Yeah, now it's. This team is just.
Now it's just Perfecto trying tolearn how to IGL on the fly and
some fellow named Toro like my God just just kick that Toro
fucker. Bring that like a day.
Yeah, you've got plamas on your bench.
Yeah, bring in Plamas, get Jane back.
Easy fucking peasy. Because Jane is absolutely
(44:41):
cooking for Paravision. Like Charlie.
Pull up paravision, get up theirrecent results.
Look how many games they're winning.
Look, look at that. That is a fucking sea of wins
against some decent teams. And by the way as well, in that
time, Jane has picked up 106 clutches.
(45:04):
In six months, he's got 106 clutches.
Yourself. By the way, right if we if we
then look at tier one level? Also, sorry, Belton ARC is an
awesome name. If we look at tier one level and
if we if we're even really fuck off, if we're even really
generous, OK, and we say versus top 50, which Jame is top at
(45:27):
still with 103, the next highestis Demka on 66.
The highest tier one level player is Woxick on 57.
This is Jame back to his best actually.
And it's not like he's playing against completely crap teams
either. So why the fuck is he not
playing for Virtus Pro? But actually why is he not
(45:48):
playing for it is game time. Are they annoyed at him for the
gooning, do you reckon? Is that it?
One should never be annoyed at someone for gooning Jack.
Trying to cover your own back here I see.
Possibly. Moving on.
To the rest of it, yes Sir. Like this, this fucking.
VP of fucked. This organization just angers
(46:10):
me. Like it's so easy.
You've got. Perfection.
Also, like, I don't want to be aDick.
Like like every press release they put out, every statement.
I don't know if you could just poorly translate it.
It's just written in this like really just weird weird style
like like. That's probably a translation.
Maybe, but. Although Spirits Spirit have
(46:34):
some very strong English speakers in the organization,
actually. Yeah, Well, yeah, VP, you lot
aren't making the major. Just just kick IC, kick this
Toro guy, buy back Jane whateverit costs, and reinstate Flamus
because you spent a million on him and now he's in contract
hell. VP has changed the name to We
(46:54):
Are Very Sorry. Gaming to get Jane back though,
because they're very sorry. For move on go back to Fisher.
Please Charlie, I need to remember what teams are there
because fucking these type of tournaments aren't real to me.
Falcons are doing well. They're.
Real Falcons are looking very strong.
(47:15):
As are Aurora, much my dismay. No, we like Aurora.
We just find them frustrating. I don't like the fans.
Well, quite. We should say that more so we
get traction to the podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
People hating us, Aurora. Fans come here.
Aurora fans are stupid they threaten people all the time and
(47:38):
team bad. Can't IGL need to frag but
sometimes don't frag? Star player meta abusers.
Star player meta abusers. Et cetera.
Yeah, we're cardio overrated. Yeah, please give us hate.
We will thrive from the attention you bring us.
(47:58):
This is needed G2. That's all good, Obstaferia.
Yeah, they're good. They're good.
They're obviously like a little a little shaky after having just
won an event they didn't expect to win, but I think that's
completely understandable. Phase A phase the Mongols.
Actually I've been quite disappointed by.
(48:20):
Yeah, they got right in his number one team and then they're
like, oh. Well, I really wanted them to
come in and just like wipe the floor free O or less.
Yeah, they lost the 3D Max, don't they?
So. They lost the fucking 3D Max and
then I think Lin Vision and Tyloo both gave.
A closer game A. Harder game.
Than they probably, I'm realistically like, looking just
(48:41):
at writing, ranking alone. They should have walked through
both those teams, really. Yeah.
Well, I mean like I'm a. Big, I will say it.
Thailand, I think Thailand have a lot more going for them than
than vision. But Mongols are like typically a
slow starter team anyway so I'm not too worried.
But you you. It's fair to expect more, I
think. Yeah, yeah.
(49:05):
As for the other teams, FURIA have looked strong.
I think them losing to Aurora isa disappointment though given
what what we think about Aurora,I do think it's a
disappointment. What do you think of Aurora shit
Yeah, it is. But also like this figure team,
(49:29):
like I, I, I'm still quite excited by them, right?
But they've like it insists uponitself that they're a weird team
in in essence, right? No.
It's a team. That team shouldn't really work.
It's a bit freaky there's. No, but you say it shouldn't
really work. It only shouldn't work because
of the basis of like nationalityand yeah, yeah, yeah,
communication. You actually look at the role.
(49:51):
So the the the full on role shitand it's probably the most
perfect team encounter. Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree.
But yeah, again though, like this team five years ago
shouldn't have existed on paper.Is that fair to say?
Right. I like it.
I like it. Yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan.
(50:14):
It's also nice to see Pain playing a bit better as well,
because I do like Pain. Liquid can go fuck themselves.
Behave. Australis can go fuck themselves
and Legacy. I'm sorry, I just cannot find it
within me to care. I like Dumao and that's all I
have to say. About never said that really
(50:36):
Elliott, his parents, oh. Well, that's a bit me.
Is Lato on legacy? Yes.
OK, OK. Is that just all you?
Yeah. All right, fair enough, fair
enough. Should we do our interest in
full experiment then? Yeah, I'm not regular thinking,
(50:58):
but. I'll.
Close close out the episode. Yes.
So obviously you and I quite like Ty Lou.
We think they're quite good. We think they're a growing team.
And it's also quite hard to not likely envision, frankly, just
because the Gal List crew did some incredible PR work for them
during the major. It's crazy, like a team can
(51:20):
become a fan favorite just by being interviewed by by BT and.
Yes but that Amelia interview isthe greatest thing in counter
psych history. It's so much better than GE
eating ice crew. So played out, played out,
hasn't it really? Yeah.
So my question, Yeah, Well, my question.
Jack, Yeah. No, I think we both agreed that
(51:45):
Tyler were the better team that actually stand a chance of
pushing further and doing something similar to the
Mongols, right? Like maybe not.
They did win that, didn't they? Fisher Playground one maybe.
Maybe they can't be the level ofthe Mongols, but maybe they can
continue to grow from where theyare now.
More tier one experience. To to a one of those top 7 vRS.
(52:08):
That's the peak, right? Something like that.
Should you be the top five? But we talk like, are we talking
top five consistent or just who they made it?
Let's let's give them like a top10 consistent then I guess it's
maybe more more fit. I think this team can be top 10
consistent, but that does dependon other teams getting stronger
(52:33):
as we think they will as to whoever that changes.
So my question Jack, are there any players that you would take
from Lin Vision to put on Ty Liuto make a Chinese super team?
Because I don't think it's as easy as it as it seems.
But my metric is only on who hasgood names because I'll be
(52:54):
honest, outside of GI don't knowwho does what and I don't want
to pretend I do. OK, well, Zaka's an author.
Attacker. No Zaka.
Oh, Zaka. Yeah, I just said like that
makes sense. Yeah, well, no, because you've
got G and he's Chinese. Zaibu.
(53:17):
Because so we can stay. Well, because this is the thing,
but this is the thing, right, Charlie, if you if you pull up G
in the other tab like this is something that's worth
comparing. Look at G's rating, look at
Zaca's rating. But there is but there is one
big difference. Zaca's a lot better at shooting
the gun. Go back on G80 Free Utility G's
(53:42):
also enabling the time. He plays a lot more.
So that's like, I actually thinkthat the idea of this Chinese
super team is potentially a verydangerous one for the Chinese
teams. I I also think think that Tyler
Le Mission rear atom, like the sort of the three orgs.
(54:05):
This is the first time we've probably had like within China,
like like a real tier one and a bit team like you'd how about
the old Tai Loo, like the captain Moe and shit, like like
at the majors, right, They'd come through the the Asian minor
or whatever. It'd show up that they'd do some
(54:26):
gimmicky stuff. People are like, Oh no, wow,
awesome, good, good for them. And then you wouldn't see the
first for the rest of the year, right, Yeah, Tai Loo are every
event basically, and every eventis a little bit of a lower tier
Tai Loo vision right as well. So yeah, we're already in a good
place. And Tai Loo are also in the in
(54:46):
the place that the Mongols were a couple of years ago.
Were they? They threatened.
They threatened to do a little better.
They did win a tournament, whichMongols didn't manage when?
Mongols were IHC, right? Like they would like get to the
play insurance and like maybe yeah, get a series, yeah.
And they were still fun favourites.
People still wanted them to do well, right?
Yeah, you know, without the fucking PR of Thailuber.
(55:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. True, true, true.
I think people just like Mongolia.
Yeah. Scream, scream if you love
Mongolia. Yeah.
So I don't know. So Mercury's calling, right?
And I don't think the calling isan issue.
Well, I thought Mercury was, butthen Dickel said it was a
tacker. But didn't you check it on
(55:31):
Wikipedia? Wikipedia said mercury Mercury,
but I. Also, I'll trust Likipedia.
I know like old Tyloo, like would just kind of change who
called. I think it was kind of just they
all spoke. So maybe that's a a system or a
style thing from Chinese CS. Whether there's not really a
dedicated leader, I don't know. I don't speak Mandarin, so I
don't know what they're saying in the team talks.
(55:52):
But we can, we can. We can also attribute and
fabricate whatever we want actually.
So no one calls at all. The what I would just, if it was
the worst player on Tyler, replace them with Westmelon.
Not that I think Westmelon is much better.
(56:12):
He just has a good name. That's an awesome name, and
Amelia Quack is really good as well, but as a name I don't know
if he's a good player. Is that what it actually is?
I say quack. I don't know if it's meant to
be, I think. I think it is.
It's good. Quack is good.
He's not. He's not particularly good.
He's quite rubbish. He might be.
He actually might be the RGL. Sue's pretty all right, isn't
he? I think he's OK.
(56:33):
I thought W Mellon was the RGL of of limitation.
What's? Already mine does it.
Amel, check this. I was a curious action choice,
huh? But I'm not going to draw too
much attention to. No, no, no, don't please.
So it says W Milan is the captain, so I assume he's the
IGL. He is the IGL.
So in that case, like the West Melon, like Mercury, trade off
(56:56):
is a thing. I think again, Mercury probably
wins out because we envision ourkind of only good at 2 maps,
which is a shame. I think the one you the 1 you
really have to talk about is Starry because, well, he's
living vision star player. It's like, it's like it's his
name. Outside of Zaca, but again, like
(57:18):
the Zaca G trade off is one thatlike you can't make base off
rating alone because utilities such an important part of that
when it comes to system. And I imagine, you know, like
you port over Westmelon, he takes Zaca, you keep Mercury, he
keeps GI. Just, I know this is obviously a
hypothetical, but do you think like these these things need to
(57:39):
happen or they just need to keepplaying to get better?
I think. Like can they just, you know,
incubate a bit more? I think Ty Lue could incubate a
bit more. I think I'd be looking to
replace attacker being being realistic.
Yeah. Like I think if attacker's not
(58:01):
idealing, you probably can find a player better than attacker.
I think if having a support, if opera is is so important to you,
then obviously you don't look toreplace GI.
Think if you if you want more impact out of Europe, then yeah,
sure, you get Zacho, but Mosaic Mercury Jam young, I see no
reason to to to change them. Lin Vision, though, that's a
(58:26):
team where if you want to grow, you probably do look to make
some changes. Yeah, I mean, like I said, Mr.
Mr. Quack's not very good at it so.
No, no, it seems like the most. Obvious candidate for, you know.
I was going to say the most comedic book on the planet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yes, also he does seem like
an obvious candidate to replace.He is their worst.
(58:48):
Is it just funny because he doesn't know what they're saying
to him? No, I think he had some comedic
timing with it. It's intentional or he's just
processing what? I think we should leave this one
here and I think we should end the episode.
That suits me fine mate. Yeah, let's let's do that.
It's like bang on an hour. So yeah, we'll be back next
(59:10):
week. I've been Sam.
My Twitter's probably below my face.
Does it go above? Below.
I don't know. I don't watch this shit.
I don't want to hear Jack talk anymore.
Yeah. E Jack.
Hello. Fucking bye even.
Yeah, I've just, I've just pointed that way.
I don't know if you go that way I.
Do I'm on this? I'm on.
Do you? That was good for me.
Come here, I have 5. Come on shout out Charlie pretty
(59:36):
pretty Charlie. Shout out James just somewhere
else. Shout out rest TLDR, read the
newsletter, subscribe to the newsletter, follow us, join the
discord and if you want to sponsor us, we really will take
anything you're. Twerking bro.
Anything. I'm leaving that there before
you actually get your ass out. Bye.
(01:00:24):
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