Join us for a powerful conversation with Michelle “MACE” Curran, Air Force Veteran, Former Fighter Pilot, and lead solo for the Thunderbirds turned speaker and author.
Today Michelle shares her incredible journey of battling imposter syndrome in a male-dominated space, and now as an author and speaker, how she helps others rise above life’s challenges by getting off autopilot and taking deliberate action.
Together we discuss:
✈️ How taking bold action is the key to building confidence, not the other way around.
🚀 Why embracing small, bold choices can lead to massive personal and professional growth.
🛡️ How a high-achieving mindset can sometimes set you up for failure later in life if you don’t build resilience.
🧭 The importance of defining your "why" to confidently navigate external judgment and the fear of disappointing others.
💫 How to turn fear into a superpower and overcome the feeling of being stuck or living with unrealized potential.
This is a must-listen for any high-achieving woman ready to redefine success on her own terms and live a life of purpose-driven action.
⬇️⬇️⬇️
You can connect with Michelle "MACE" Curran and pre-order her new book, The Flipside: How to Invert Your Perspective and Turn Fear into Your Superpower, at www.macecurran.com/flipside and on Instagram @mace_curran!
✨✨✨
Ready to own your authority and accelerate your impact? The Owning Her Authority Mastermind is your high-impact Leadership Circle for visionary women on the brink of massive expansion. Get the clarity, community, and confidence you need to scale beyond your wildest dreams. We start November 6th—your new chapter is waiting. Apply now! mskatehouse.com/mastermind
✨✨✨
Connect with Kate: mskatehouse.com | @mskatehouse | mastermind | courses | speaking | FREE overcoming overwhelm masterclass
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Thank you so much.
(00:25):
Hey Mace, welcome to thepodcast.
I am so excited to have you heretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Thank you for having me.
I know all the things I talkabout and I'm about are really
going to align with your show.
And so I'm just really gratefulto be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Oh my goodness.
It's going to be so much fun.
When I was getting to know youand your background and just the
incredible things that you'vedone, I was getting more and
more excited for thisconversation.
And then Mace was so kind andunderstanding because we were
supposed to record a week ago.
And of course, one of my kidsgot sick.
So I had to send her the likeSOS email.
SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
We get it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Yes.
I appreciate I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
So Mace, for anybody who'slistening, and maybe they're not
yet familiar with the work thatyou do, the books that you've
written, the book that's comingout, which we're so excited
about.
Can you just tell us a littlebit about who you are and what
you're all about?
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yeah.
So my actual name is MichelleCurran, but I'm often referred
to by Mace, which is my callsign for my time as a fighter
pilot.
So I spent about 13 years onactive duty in the Air Force,
flying fighter jets, three ofthose years flying for the Air
Force Thunderbirds.
I was the leads solo for thatteam during the COVID timeframe,
(01:28):
kind of 2019 to 2021 is when Idid that.
And then three years ago, I leftthe Air Force to start my own
business as an author.
I published two children'spicture books.
And then I have a book comingout here soon that I know we're
going to talk more about.
That's kind of like mynonfiction adult debut.
I have to be careful because Ihave these kids' books and I
talk about the new book and I'mlike, it's an adult book.
(01:49):
And people are like giving methe raised eyebrows.
Like, are you making a forayinto OnlyFans?
No, not that kind of book.
Anyway, get off topic there.
But my primary thing with mybusiness, in addition to
writing, is being a keynotespeaker.
And during my time with theThunderbirds, I was just in this
position where I had the honorof inspiring and impacting a lot
(02:10):
of people.
And I just started to love thatso much that I wanted to keep
doing it.
And so kind of my new missionnow is to help people flip how
they view fear, overcomeself-doubt, tackle things like
impostors syndrome and reallyclose the potential gap, which
is what I see as the place, thegap between where they currently
(02:31):
are and where they have thepotential to be.
So it's helping people find thecourage to take the action to
close that gap.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
I love that.
What was it for you?
What was your potential gap?
What was the thing that kept youfrom, you know, taking that
action in your own life?
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, people are always surprised because they
saw me go pursue this dream ofbeing a fighter pilot, which is
kind of like a pionist guy dreamfor a lot of people, right?
It's like one of those thingskids say where they're like, I
want to be a rock star or afighter pilot, a professional
YouTuber, where you're like,those things do exist.
The odds of getting to thosepositions are just pretty small.
And I set that dream.
(03:10):
The odds were against me.
I did it.
But then as I got there, Ireally found myself just hyper
analyzing how I showed up inthis very male dominated type A
kind of environment, which isnot what I am in multiple.
multiple aspects, I'm prettyreserved and introverted and
shy.
And I'm also a woman, if youcan't tell from, from my voice
(03:30):
on the podcast, but I foundmyself just hyper analyzing how
I showed up in this highperformance type, a male
dominated environment.
Um, and that really sent me intothis path of feeling like an
imposter, right?
Like the cliche of, I know it'sa buzzword, imposter syndrome,
buzz phrase, but it was verymuch what I was experiencing.
Just being like, I don't deserveto be in this role.
(03:53):
How the heck did I get here?
here, but I had been at the topof my class in training.
I had demonstrated all thethings at a high level.
I deserved the positions I got,but the higher I got up and the
more the expectations grew andthe performance of the people
around me got higher as I movedinto these different units, my
self-doubt started to creep in.
(04:14):
And so, yes, I achieved this biggoal, but the potential gap for
me once I was there is that Ireally found myself shying away
from opportunities.
Say it's to lead a missionairborne, or it's to go be the
project officer in charge ofsome specific thing, whatever it
is, all of these things thatreally help you grow in your
(04:34):
career, I would shy away fromthose because they came with a
chance of failure.
And it felt like this massivevulnerability because it was
going to expose me where peoplecould potentially realize I
wasn't the person that should bein the job.
SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
Yeah.
And that's the thing withimposter syndrome, right?
Is that
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
fear of exposure.
Absolutely.
And you like physically...
Anyone that's been in thatposition knows what it feels
like.
It is like a physiologicalreaction when you have those
moments where you know youshould do something, you should
speak up in a meeting and shareyour idea, or you should put
your name in the hat for apromotion or whatever that looks
like.
And then that fear paralyzes youand you shy away from it.
(05:14):
And then after the momentpasses, you feel guilty because
you know you should have doneit.
And you're like, what am I soscared of?
But then it happens again andagain, and it can just leave
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Yeah, that's amazing.
(06:24):
And you're like, okay, how do Ibridge this?
I love how you say the potentialgap.
How do you get yourself fromfeeling that desire of like, I
want to put my name in the ring,but you don't to actually taking
the action?
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Yeah, my big thing is that you have to start small,
because there are like, say it'sa scale of one to 10.
There are level 10 risks andopportunities you can go after.
And those might have massiverewards.
But often they also have biggerrisks.
repercussions if you fail.
And if you do go after that,either it's so scary and
(06:59):
daunting that you will neveractually find the courage to do
it.
Or if you do have this moment oflike, I'm just going to be brave
for 10 seconds and send theemail.
And then it doesn't work out.
It like scares you so much.
It pushes you back into thislike cave of, well, that wasn't
worth it.
I'm not going to do that again.
So I talk about small, boldchoices and military loves
acronyms.
So I that is like the smallestthing you can do that moves you
(07:29):
towards what your end goal is somaybe that end goal is to just
close the potential gap or maybeit's something more specific
it's to grow in your career orit's to start a new hobby and
for me i ended up starting to dothese really small bold things
so my kind of threshold for theb in sbcs is if it should feel
(07:50):
slightly uncomfortable rightlike it should feel like you're
a beginner like you have tolearn like You have to stretch,
but it shouldn't be souncomfortable that it's
paralyzing.
And a lot of times it'ssomething you could literally do
right now, today, right?
You can make that phone call.
You can send that email.
You can send that resume in.
And so for me, I've moved bases.
So to give you a little bit ofbackground, I'm at my first
(08:12):
operational squadron in Japan,and I have gone through years
and years of training, all thewickets of competing to get a
fighter jet, which to put thatin perspective, there were only
two available for my class of 25students, so it was very
competitive.
I got one of those, beat theodds, go to learn the F-16.
It's much more challenging thanthe training aircraft I was
(08:35):
flying.
Now I get to my first squadron,and being a high achiever, being
a good student, getting thisfighter jet, I was just getting
a lot of accolades and wins,even though I was working my
butt off.
It was a hard environment.
Now I get to the actualsquadron, and everyone around me
is an experienced fighter pilot.
Everyone was the best in theirclass.
SPEAKER_03 (08:54):
And
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
now I'm just like average.
And now I'm not just average,but I'm a beginner.
So I'm bad.
Yeah.
I'm just bad.
And so that is when I reallystruggled with those things I
mentioned of just like so muchself-doubt, holding myself back
from opportunities.
After three years there, I'mvery burned out because I've
constantly been letting myselfdown.
(09:15):
I also feel like I've beendressing up as a fighter pilot
and trying to show up at work assomething that I really wasn't.
Pretending to like sports so Icould be part of the
conversations with the guys orpretending to be assertive and
type A or pretending that like asexist joke didn't make me
uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
There's a lot of pretending and not authentic
behavior happening on my part.
And a lot of that was my ownfault.
Some of it's the environment.
I moved to my next base inTexas.
And I kind of have this pivotalmoment where I realize this is
an entirely new group of people.
I now am a flight lead, whichmeans I could lead four jets
(09:55):
into a combat mission if I hadto.
I have experience under my belt.
And I'm also just burned out ofpretending.
And I'm burned out of feelingthat gap of knowing I have more
potential than I'm showing upwith.
And so I have this distinctmoment in this move, which
really acted as a catalyst whereI'm just like, I'm going to show
(10:15):
up in this squadron as a personI want to be.
SPEAKER_03 (10:18):
It's
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
almost like a fresh start.
And I know everyone doesn't havethat opportunity.
But I think we can create themfor ourselves in smaller ways
sometimes.
(10:54):
And it was like a reallydistinct moment in my mind.
And I started doing that first,just in my hobbies in this new
city.
So I moved to Fort Worth.
I don't know anyone therebesides my new squadron I'm
flying with.
And I wanted to get into a lotof different things that just
weren't accessible in Japan or Ididn't have time for.
So I started to learn how torock climb.
(11:15):
And I took volunteering courses.
I did a solo trip to Nepal,joined up with a group and did
the trek to Everspace camp,which was great.
Freaking awesome.
One of the coolest trips I'veever been on.
But those things at that timefelt bold to me.
SPEAKER_03 (11:30):
And
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
every one of those that I did was just empowering.
And those small, bold choices onkind of the personal side of my
life started to give me more andmore confidence on the
professional side as well, whereI started to make little, bold
moves there, volunteering to dothings, going through an upgrade
where I became an instructorpilot, which is really
(11:52):
challenging.
And so I did that for about 18months.
So relatively short amount oftime in the big scheme of
things.
And I think the person that leftJapan would not have even
recognized who I was a year anda half later.
The growth that happened in thattimeframe, definitely the most
rapid growth period I've evergone through in my life.
(12:15):
And I really do feel like I justdecided that it was time for
that to happen.
Yeah.
A little uncomfortable, but soworth it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
I love that.
But I love too, I What you saidabout the SBCs, the small, bold
choices, is that you didn'tleave.
It seems to me like you didn'tleave Japan and you're like, in
18 months, I want to be thisfuture alter ego of myself.
It was just like, what is thenext SBC?
Because I sometimes think we'retold, what's your five-year
(12:42):
vision or whatever?
If that feels so big, we getstuck.
And we're in inaction becausewe're like, I don't even know
how to do that.
But I love that you startedwith, I always like to say, the
low Yep.
Yep.
(13:24):
Not like you were like, I'm justgoing to move to Fort Worth and
I'm going to be super confidentand do all these things.
In your story, you're sayinglike, no, the confidence was
developed through the doing.
And so many of us, I think, feellike, well, we should just feel
confident and then we'll do thethings.
But it's actually the other wayaround.
Does that feel right to you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Absolutely.
That is one of the things Ipreach all the time.
I think it's like, you know,anyone that goes to the gym
regularly and lifts weights,like, it's not that strong
people show up and decide to goto the gym.
It's that they They just, theywent to the gym and that's why
they're strong, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
You have to go and you have to not know what you're
doing.
And it's that repetition of likegrowing that muscle of training
your brain to believe inyourself and to be okay figuring
things out and to haveresilience when things don't go
your way.
That takes repetition just likea muscle in the body does.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Yeah.
Will you speak to thatresilience muscle a little bit?
Because I think that too iswhere some of us get stuck where
we're like, well, I took thatbold action, but I got it.
know, right?
And then like you said, then weget stuck in this cycle of doubt
or questioning ourselves or ourabilities or worst case
scenario, we're like, oh, no,that just affirms what I thought
about myself and that I'm notcapable, right?
(14:37):
And you're like, wait, but Ithink I am.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
But we for sure get stuck in our own heads.
And then we choose what data wepull around us.
It's the confirmation bias,right?
We're like, well, I don'tbelieve in myself.
So I'm only going to payattention to the signals that
tell me that that's true.
Even when someone I reallyrespect might come up and tell
me that I'm doing awesome andthen they believe in me, I'm
(15:01):
going to set my respect asidefor a second just to be like, I
don't believe them because thatconfirms the belief or lack of
belief in myself.
Yeah.
So it was one of those thingsthat just took practice.
And I think growing up andbeing, I was an adventurous kid.
My parents always say I was likea really easy kid.
(15:23):
Like I was just so motivated.
I wanted to get straight A's.
I did that, all the things.
And I think that's great.
It gave me the opportunities toget an ROTC scholarship, which
got me my pilot slot.
But one of the things I don'tthink I built at a young age was
resilience because I neverreally failed at anything until
I got to Japan.
And now when I'm failing at thatlevel, the consequences are
(15:46):
high.
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Right.
Yeah.
Because it's very different thangetting like a B in sophomore
year of high school.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
A hundred percent.
And I think about that with Mystepson who's 12 and I think one
of the biggest gifts you cangive as a parent is to let your
kids experience that adversityand not make the team or fail on
the test.
You know, like whatever, likewe, of course we want this kid
who's just a shining star.
They're like the best athlete.
(16:11):
They're the straight A student.
They're just all the things.
But personally, having been oneof those kids, it can set you up
for failure later in lifebecause those lessons are tough
to learn when you're in acareer.
where decisions really matter.
And I think that's what I wentthrough.
And I had to experience that Icould fail, that I could feel
(16:32):
like I was at a really lowpoint, and that I could dig
myself out of it.
And I think that's where thatgrowth period in Fort Worth
happened is because those threeyears in Japan, I had
experienced a lot of adversity.
I'd really been in a low point.
And it had allowed me to startto experience what resilience
really meant.
(16:53):
And I don't think I would havehad the perspective then because
I felt like I was doing all theright things, but I was lacking
grit.
I could do well on the physicalfitness test and I could run
really fast and push my body anddo all the pushups and set these
big goals, but I was lackingresilience when it came to
failing, when it came to thefeelings of shame or
(17:17):
embarrassment or judgment ofother people.
I was very fragile around thosethings.
And I had to kind of go throughthat fire to just fortify those
skills and learn how to do themas an adult.
SPEAKER_00 (17:30):
Yeah, it's so true.
I think I similarly, well, I'mnot a fighter pilot, we should
say, but I can identify with,you know, being the high
achiever, the straight Astudent, you know, the Phi Beta
Kappa graduate, right?
And then you get out into theworkforce and you're like, oh,
wait, but I'm not perfect atthis, but I'm pretty sure I did
everything you said I should do.
So like, why am I not a shiningall-star anymore, right?
(17:52):
And then, yeah, it's It's reallya lot of self-reflection.
And I love that, you know, youtook that season, those 18
months.
I mean, it's incredible how muchyou can change in 18 months,
right?
When you give yourselfpermission.
And it almost sounds like maybea little bit of curiosity.
Like when you said, you know, Itried mountaineering and I
learned how to rock climb and,you know, gave yourself
permission to be curious aboutthe things that you're like, oh,
(18:15):
this might be kind of fun orthis might be interesting,
right?
And sometimes I think, too, wetry something and sometimes we
learn like, oh, I don't likethat thing.
Exactly.
That's okay too.
Has that ever happened to you?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Yeah, definitely.
I think, well, it's beeninteresting this evolution I've
had with flying because that wasmy end all be all goal as a ROTC
college student was to become afighter pilot.
And I went and I did that.
And now I'm in a dream job formost people.
I've achieved the thing I setout to achieve.
(18:46):
And from the exterior, everyonewatches Top Gun and they're
like, that's the coolest jobever.
SPEAKER_03 (18:50):
And
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
then I fast forward and I've been doing it for a
decade.
I, you know, to close the gapbetween that 18 months in Fort
Worth, I spent three yearsthere.
And at the end of thatthree-year assignment is when I
saw the email that theThunderbirds were hiring.
And it was something that hadalways intrigued me.
Yeah.
But in the past, whenever I hadlike seen they were hiring or
(19:12):
someone had brought it up inconversation, I had those two
conflicting feelings of thatsounds really fun and exciting.
I'm not good enough to do thatkind of flying.
Right.
Look at all the public judgmentthat would come with being in
that position.
Yeah, that imposter's voice getsreally loud.
(19:53):
to put in an application to tryto go to that team.
And I do that.
I get to the Thunderbirds.
I'm doing the coolest flyingaround, in my opinion.
It is hard.
I'm a beginner again.
There's a little bit of a shockthere.
Once you get your arms aroundthe flying, it's just really fun
and exciting.
You're upside down, 100 feet offthe ground, flying just under
(20:14):
the speed of sound, a few feetfrom other airplanes.
It's like nothing I'd done inthe Air Force before.
And I get partway through thatassignment, which I ended up
spending three years there.
And I'm realizing I don't loveit anymore.
And this is the thing I'msupposed to love.
This is the thing that everyonearound me is like, that's so
freaking cool.
Congratulations.
(20:34):
And on the inside, I'm like, I'mstarting to feel where it's no
longer aligned with my end goaland my values of what I really
want to contribute to the world.
And it was the most amazingexperience.
I'm very grateful for the timethere and all the great people I
got to work with and just thecrazy stuff.
But I left flying.
(20:57):
I didn't go on to fly for theairlines.
I didn't stay in the Air Forceand go back to a combat squadron
flying gray F-16s after theThunderbirds, which I think was
shocking to a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
But
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
I had found that flying of all things, which had
been just like what my wholelife revolved around for 13
years, was no longer the thingfor me.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
Yeah.
But, you know, if I were toreflect back, I think what is so
cool, though, is that when youhad, how did you put it?
Yeah.
(21:53):
Like, I'm going to do my nextSBC.
And you realize like, oh, thisisn't an alignment anymore.
And I mean, that must have been,I mean, it gives me like
goosebumps to think about it.
Like, I can't imagine thefortitude and the resilience it
took to walk away from thatcareer where maybe the
expectation was, well, youwouldn't step away from it,
right?
And to say confidently, youknow, no, I want to go in this
(22:16):
other direction.
I mean, what a beautifulexample.
SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
I felt very clear that it was the right decision
for me.
Like, My purpose, which I sharedat the beginning of the show,
became so clear that I was like,I am the right person at the
right time, just lucky enough tobe in this position where I can
see how this can have a massiveimpact if I transition to the
civilian side and I get to tellmy story and I get to build my
(22:41):
business focused on doing that.
But there's a lot of otherpeople's outside opinions that
are very loud at that point.
And I mean, you have for, Iguess, the least level of
impact, I have the general realpublic right uh-huh the people
chiming in on social mediathey're like what are you doing
how would you like I would givemy right arm to have that job
(23:01):
and you're choosing to leave itlike what's wrong with you yeah
but then I have like familyraising eyebrows and then I have
the people I work with whichwere probably like the the
loudest voices to me becausethese are my peers we trust each
other with our lives I admire alot of them a lot of them have a
very like I don't want to saystrict.
(23:23):
That's not the right word.
They have a very defined versionof what success in the Air Force
looks like.
It's being the best tacticalfighter pilot.
It's moving up in rank.
It's becoming a squadroncommander.
All those things.
And we need those people.
But that just no longer feltlike it was the way that I could
have the biggest impact.
And it no longer felt like itwas the thing that I personally
(23:46):
wanted to do.
And it felt like a leap ofcourage, not necessarily to take
the risk of leaving the securityof a government paycheck and all
the benefits, but more so therisk of disappointing people or
being like, this is what I'mgoing to go do and then
potentially failing at it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
Yeah, totally.
How did you manage that?
Because I know there are a lotof women in my community.
Something I hear from them oftenis this fear of judgment, this
fear of letting people down,which I hear a lot in us high
achievers, right?
And so how did you navigateRight.
Did you have the conversationswith the people, you know, that
(24:26):
really matter?
Not necessarily the stranger onthe Internet who's like, well,
what are you doing?
Right.
But, you know, the colleaguesthat you respect and admire and
even family members.
I hear a lot from my communityas well as they're like, I have
this thing on my heart.
I want to pursue it.
But like my, you know, sister'sgoing to judge me or my mom's
not going to understand or mypartner's not going to get it.
(24:48):
What would just be like how didyou navigate that or what
encouragement would you say tothat person?
I.
I
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
think when I defined my why very clearly and I had
these stories from my time as aThunderbird where I could just
see that impact happen and Iknew how that was going to end
if I stayed in the Air Force andI knew how I could translate
that if I got out.
Once I kind of shared thosemoments, family members were
(25:13):
like, okay, that sounds awesome.
Like we're on board.
It was probably just like alittle bit of being surprised,
but then like this all makessense.
And they've been amazinglysupportive I think for my peers,
the people that matter that areactual friends that actually
care about me as a personoutside of the specific role I
was in at the time, they havegotten on board and they are
(25:36):
like cheering me on from theside.
They see the impact happening.
The people that don't get it.
I just remind myself thatthey're not my target audience.
Yeah.
Right.
They're not your people.
No, those like my message isn'tgoing to be for everyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I have to remind myselfof that because Because I do
get, you know, negative commentssometimes.
(25:57):
And it's easy to let thosecreate an emotional reaction.
(26:23):
that person, if they're even aperson, is not your target
audience.
And I bring myself back to thosemoments I got to have with,
especially little girls, while Iwas with the Thunderbirds and
just flying an air show, goingup to the fence afterwards,
doing an autograph session,having parents bring their
daughters up.
And this six, seven,eight-year-old, kind of the core
(26:45):
age group where they would bepretty shy and a little bit
scared of me.
And then a lot of times the momwould drag them up there and be
like, look, She just flew thatjet, that jet that went upside
down, that like rocketed uptowards the sky.
That was her.
And you could see the light bulbmoment happen for these kids.
And it was just like, wait, whatI can do just got bigger.
(27:07):
Like the possibilities in theworld just expanded for me.
And it was, I know that's a giftto them, but seeing that moment
happen in real time in front ofmy eyes was like the most
fulfilling, rewarding gift to meas well.
just knew that there were moreways to do that for kids and for
adults.
(27:29):
What do you want to do as ahuman on the earth in your
lifetime?
What is it really all about?
What are we doing here?
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Yeah, because our time is so limited.
Yeah.
And I love how you say that whenyour why was so defined and you
articulated it to the peoplethat really mattered to you,
that they were like, oh, yeah, Isee that.
I get behind that.
And so having that clearlydefined why but then I just
think about like oh I lovepicturing the little girls like
(27:57):
up at the fence right but thento think about you know the two
well three books now that you'vewritten but the first two for
children like I think about likevisually I try to picture like
the thousands of children thathave been impacted by that work
right so like those little girlswho are there in person amazing
right but just like I mean youcan probably like 100x that with
(28:19):
the work that you're doing nowand speaking of books so tell us
a little bit about yourchildren's books.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
So the first kids book, so they're children's
picture books.
They're for, you know, anywherefrom kids you read to before
they go to bed that can't readthemselves yet to probably like
eight or nine year olds, I wouldsay.
They're about a little girlwho's eight years old.
Her name's Lily Padilly, and shewants to be a fighter pilot.
Where this idea came from is myfirst year on the Thunderbirds.
We were at the Smithsonian Airand Space Museum in Washington,
(29:14):
DC.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
it's my favorite Smithsonian.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
so good.
So good.
We're there like doing a meetand greet as the Thunderbirds.
So I'm in my show suit.
We have a little bit of time.
So I go in the bookstore andit's just such a cool place all
of this space and aviation likeanything from freeze-dried ice
cream to flight suits like youcan get so much cool stuff there
they have a big book section andI'm looking at the children's
books and there's just notreally any that have a female
(29:40):
protagonist that little girlsare going to relate to there's
some about Amelia Earhart ofcourse right which I think the
history is important but it'shard for a six-year-old to
connect with the historicalfigure yes it's just kind of a
different thing and I'm like Iwant to write a kid's picture
book about a little girl thatwants to be a fighter pilot.
Yes.
So that's in 2019.
(30:00):
The pandemic happens in 2020 andI have a little bit of downtime
because our schedule was justinsane.
And so there was just no time tofocus on anything else.
Being home in quarantine, I waslike, yeah, let's work on this.
Yeah.
Might as well write the book.
So, you know, kids books, six to750 words, like not the same as
writing a 70,000 word book, likeflip side.
Of course.
(30:21):
So I work on this manuscript.
I have some great people I canbounce ideas off of and I'm like
I'm going to start submittingthis to literary agents I had no
idea how publishing worked I'mlike hey I'm the lead solo for
the Air Force Thunderbirds Ihave this book blah blah blah I
send out like 50 pitches andit's just crickets also the
publishing world is goingthrough the pandemic too so it's
(30:42):
just like not the time to bedoing it so I'm like okay well
this is going to be harder thanI thought air show start back up
I'm just super busy again so Ikind of just table this edited
manuscript which is on mylaptop.
Fast forward to, I've alreadydecided I'm leaving the Air
Force.
I have my first keynote speechon the books for right after I
(31:03):
leave active duty.
So I'm working on this speechand I started to be active on
LinkedIn.
It's just a great platform forspeakers.
And you know, like those areyour target audience, right?
These are business.
So I start to create a lot ofcontent on there and I get a
message from a fellow author.
And I happened to mention that Ihave this children's book
manuscript and she's like, oh, Iwrite children's books.
(31:26):
Let me connect you with mypublisher.
Like skip the agent.
Let's just go straight to thepublisher.
It's like a smaller women runpublishing company.
I get connected with them.
They're called Endgame Press.
And they were just like, we lovethis.
Let's do it.
Oh, that's so amazing.
It was awesome.
So the book was brought to life.
It was a year later from thatpoint.
So like June of 2023 that itfinally released after having
(31:51):
had the idea in 2019.
Wrote the manuscript in 2020.
So it's a process.
That one, they liked it so much.
They're like, let's do a secondone, which is called What's Your
Call Sign?
You know, about fighter pilotnicknames.
And so it's the same characters.
But yeah, the books have beenreally well received.
It's been a great way to stayconnected with kids since most
(32:11):
of the speaking that I do is forcorporations.
So that was kind of like, thatjust came from that spark of
inspiration that I had there inSpace Museum.
But then it's like, okay, now wehave two of these.
and then it's like I'm doingthese speeches the the Reception
is really incredible.
I talk about self-doubt.
I'm talking about vulnerability,all these things that people
(32:33):
don't expect from a fighterpilot or a Thunderbird pilot,
but it's combined with theselike edge of the seat flying
stories that people are justlike fascinated by.
And
SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
from a female perspective, which we haven't
heard a
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
lot of.
Yeah.
Right.
And like, I mean, I'm justgetting great feedback from
everyone, but especially like somany women are coming up
afterwards.
Just like, I feel like you wrotethat for me.
I'm going to go do this becauseof it.
And then I did it for longenough, people would start to
follow up and be like, I saw youspeak six months ago.
Here's what I did because of it.
And here's what happened.
(33:08):
Like, here's the outcome.
It's like, this is the coolestthing.
I would get so excited when Igot those messages.
Of course.
So people are like, do you havea book?
Do you have a book?
I'm like, well, I have kidsbooks, but they're like an
adult, right?
They don't want to read apicture book for a
seven-year-old.
So I'm like, I do have so manymore stories.
(33:29):
I have so many more lessons thatI can't fit in a 45 minute
keynote and people are wantingmore.
So I start to explore what itwould look like to write a book.
Like how does the proposalprocess work?
How do all the things.
So that has been almost threeyears ago now.
It'll be three years in August.
So when this episode airs, it'llhave been three years ago.
(33:51):
Yeah.
I ended up working with aghostwriter because I needed to
sort through all this stuff inmy head.
Of course.
So to have an outside partywho's just like an expert, like
be able to discuss thesestories, be able to reflect on
what I learned from them.
It was like a therapy sessionworking with her.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
my gosh.
I can only imagine.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
It was awesome.
I have no regrets.
People are like, does it feelweird to you that you like
you're a single seat fighterpilot and you like relied on
this ghostwriter to help you?
And I was like, think about allthe things we take on where we
reach out to experts to help usdo it.
Writing a book is a massiveundertaking.
It is a legacy.
It is something I don't wantjust like a business card book
(34:31):
that's just checking a box.
I want this to be a bestseller.
I want it to impact people.
I want it to change lives.
Why would I not work with thebest people I can to help me do
that?
So her name's Jen.
She's amazing.
We get a publishing deal withone of the top, the big five
publishers, which I was justlike, I'm on cloud nine.
(34:54):
I'm like, I can't believe thisis happening.
Oh man, now I actually have towrite the rest of this book,
deliver a 70,000 wordmanuscript, like giddy up, here
we go.
We did that for the next sixmonths or so, all the rounds of
edits.
And then it finally comes out
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
September 9th.
Oh my goodness.
So friends, if you're listeningto this and you're like, Mesa's
speaking my language and she'slike exhibiting what I want to
grow into, somebody who isconfident, somebody who's
resilient.
So much of what I'm hearing fromyour publishing journey is
resilience, right?
Like you sent out all thosepitches.
Right.
And writing the flip side andthat taking three years to come
(35:40):
to fruition.
Right.
A lot of these things that wework towards that leave a
legacy.
Right.
That have so much impact.
Take time.
Right.
And we live in such a world oflike instant gratification.
So like if you want to besomebody who is resilient like
Mace and who is taking actionand creating that confidence,
make sure you have that.
you pre-order the book.
I was on Mesa's website earliertoday.
You can literally pre-order iteverywhere you get books.
(36:03):
And I know you have some reallyincredible value that you're
giving to everybody whopre-orders.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about those?
Because I was reading yourwebsite and my jaw was just
dropping.
I'm like, I'm so excited for allof this.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Yeah, it is.
I've learned so much aboutpublishing.
And one of the big things isjust how important pre-orders
are.
And before I wrote this book, Iwould see other people pushing
pre-orders.
And I'm like, well, why wouldn'tI wait till a the book releases,
then I'll order it on Amazon.
It'll show up the same day.
Like, heck yeah, immediategratification here for that.
So pre-orders, A, for mostpeople, that is what determines
(36:37):
if they make the New York Timesbestseller list, which is, I'm
all about telling people mygoals now, even if they're like
big and audacious, because thenthe bright people show up to
help you make them happen.
I want to make the New YorkTimes bestseller list.
That is how the book gets in themost people's hands.
It has that impact.
So those are primarily, based onpre-sales.
(37:00):
It also signals to the publisherhow big the first print run is.
It signals to places like Targetthat they should actually put in
their stores, not just on thewebsite.
So there's my spiel forpre-orders.
They're so important.
So to get that across to people,because I don't always have the
opportunity to explain for threeminutes what they are and how
important they are, I did somepre-order bonus incentives.
(37:23):
It's a bunch of cool stuff.
It's a discussion guide.
So it's like a workbook, PDFthat takes you through different
exercises along with the book.
It's a behind the scenesinterview between Jen and I, my
ghostwriter.
Cool.
And we talk about the hardparts, like the challenging
subjects and trying to navigate,like, how much do I talk about
the challenges of being a womanin that
SPEAKER_03 (37:42):
environment?
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
Like, how do we do all of this?
So we, you know, got in a studioand talked about all of that.
There's a Spotify playlist,which seems like the most
obscure thing, but people reallylove it.
They're like, it just goes alongwith the themes of the book and
it's like a fun little insightinto people's preferences when
you get to find out what musicthey choose absolutely yeah and
(38:04):
then access to the first chapteris like one of my favorite
things because as soon assomeone pre-orders and they fill
out the little form on thewebsite they instantly get a
link to go read the firstchapter and they don't have to
wait till september 9th untilthe book ships so that was a
long spiel the full title is theflip side how to invert your
perspective and turn fear intoyour superpower and people are
(38:26):
like what type of a book is itit's really memoir mated with
self-help because every chapterhas a story cool stories about
almost g-locking in the jetwhich is going unconscious from
the g-forces story about hittinga bird with a six-foot wingspan
and putting holes in theairplane like and those are some
(38:48):
of the more extreme ones almosta near head-on collision that we
had on the thunderbirds likethey're compelling intriguing
stories but everyone it's likewhat did i learn from that what
are the tools and like themindset hacks and all the things
that helped me move forward fromthat and how do these translate
into someone who's not in ahigh-speed aircraft yeah what
(39:11):
tools can they use in theireveryday life yeah and every
chapter ends with these twocolumns where it's the script
side is what we call it whichare like the stale scripts in
your tell yourself right thetrack that we have that's just
not helpful and then it's Nextto it, it's got the flip side.
Like how we can flip how we viewfear, how we can flip how we
(39:32):
view failure, how we can chooseto respond in a productive way
when things go awry.
Like there's just so many usefulthings.
I'm like 10% terrified becauseit's like putting a baby out
into the world.
Of course, it's like your heart
SPEAKER_00 (39:49):
in a book.
SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Yeah, it's like 270 some pages of vulnerability,
right?
And of course we'll be critics,but I'm 90% excited because I
know there's so many people thatit's going to resonate with.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Oh, it's amazing.
Well, I love to, I'm reallyexcited to read it because I
love books like that where I cansit down, I read a ridiculous
amount, but I love a book whereI can sit down in bed and I know
every night I can read onechapter and learn something and
reflect and then I can put itdown and then like the next day
I'll find myself kind of likemulling over what was learned
(40:21):
and then later that night I getto sit down and then read the
next chapter, right?
And so it just can continue tobuild on itself and What I love
about your pre-order incentivesis that it really helps us.
So many of us I find in theoverachieving community, you
know, we like to call itoverlearning in my community.
You know, we've listened to allthe books on all the podcasts
and the audio books andwhatever, but then we don't
(40:42):
actually implement.
And so I love that you havethis, you know, the, was it the
script and the flip side?
Yeah, the script side and theflip side.
think about what we're learningto use your workbook to
implement it in our own livesbecause that's kind of where the
magic happens right it's in thepeople that listen to you speak
(41:04):
and they're like I'm gonna go dothis thing right like oh my gosh
and I can't wait for like whenyou're a New York Times
bestseller and then the notesyou get back from women three
months out from when the bookdrops six months out and when
they're telling you all thethings that they did like oh my
gosh like you're changing theworld it's so cool I
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
cannot wait like yeah it's I feel like I'm living
in just a series of pinch memoments right now like the fact
that this book is actually realthat it's like being printed i'm
you know by the time this airs iwill have gotten the actual
first copies physically mailedto me a complete book i have a
mock-up behind me in this videoand that like i've had a few
(41:46):
people preview it who areworking with maybe it's like my
publicist or people that areworking on it in different ways
and the fact from them has beenso awesome that it just gets me
more and more
SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
excited it's amazing have you thought about So one
thing we like to talk about hereis how we celebrate when we have
these big milestones because itcan be so hard for us high
achievers because we're justlike onto the next thing.
Yes.
How are you going to celebrate?
SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
Yeah.
So everyone's like, you're goingto need to take a vacation.
The hard thing as a keynotespeaker is that the book
releases September 9th.
September to like the firstcouple of weeks of November is
prime speaking conventionseason.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Yep.
So you're going to be superbusy.
I'm going to be busy.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
But my husband and I booked a trip, just the two of
us in December to go to Thailandoh so cool and it's amazing
we're recording this in what isit June right now so it's still
so far away but it was like Ihe's like are you sure you want
to get that on the I was likeyes I need this thing waiting
for me at the end of one of thecraziest years ever
SPEAKER_03 (42:45):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
just to like a time I've been running kind of ragged
like just traveling a ton superbusy so it's important for us to
have that time to reconnect butalso to just like Like we're
doing it.
Yeah.
It's a thing.
We're doing the thing like this.
Like I'm was not good for areally long time at celebrating
(43:07):
wins, especially smaller wins.
Yep.
But now I like make a point inmy business, you know, even if
it's like booking on a greatpodcast, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's celebrate this.
And that keeps that motivationgoing when the schedule and the
days and like the time betweenbreaks can be long.
SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
Yeah.
Oh, I love that so much, Mace.
That's so important for us toremember to like to celebrate
our wins and the things thatwe've done.
Cause yeah, you're right.
It can be, especially the littlethings that can be hard to
celebrate.
And then because we haven'tgotten used to celebrating along
the way, the big thing happensand we're like, oh wait, I
should probably celebrate thistoo.
So I'm already picturing youguys like on a beach with like
(43:47):
something delicious to drink andeat and just like spending time
connecting and just like, justcelebrating all that you've done
this year.
I mean, it's incredible.
So as we wrap up thisconversation, Mace, like what is
just like the one encouragementyou would want to leave a
listener with?
Like for the woman who'slistening, who identifies with
the imposter syndrome, whoidentifies with like knowing
(44:09):
that she wants and was made formore, but isn't sure how to
bridge that potential gap,right?
She's not, she's, and she's justfeeling a little stuck, but
she's hearing you right now.
And she's like, oh my gosh, Macehas me so fired up.
I'm she does feel so nervous.
What, like what encouragementwould you tell her?
SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
Yeah, there's a line that I say towards the end of my
speeches.
And it's one that people, Ialways see people like start
writing notes.
I think it kind of encompassesall the, like the different
themes.
And that is that the key toprogress is having the courage
to start something, even whenyou don't feel ready, but
believing yourself enough toknow you will figure it out
(44:51):
along the way.
It's just that sliver of beliefthat you need that I don't have
all the answers right now.
SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
Right.
Like, you know, you get like thebutterflies or like, you know,
my first podcast episode I everrecorded solo.
Mind you, I wasn't even talkingto anybody.
I like sweat through my T-shirtbecause I was so nervous.
Right.
But like and recorded on thewrong microphone for the first
three episodes.
But like you said, like you justhave to start and then you keep
learning and you keep showing upand you build that confidence.
(45:47):
And I love it.
You don't have to have all theanswers to get started.
Right.
You can do it a little bitscared.
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
Absolutely.
So I think if people wouldembrace that, there would be so
many more people walking aroundfeeling like they were living at
where they have the potential tolive at.
SPEAKER_00 (46:02):
Yeah.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
Okay.
So Mace, as we wrap up, wherecan folks find you online?
I know you've got your websiteand Instagram are great places
to find you.
So we'll chat about those andthen just tell us again where
folks can pre-order the book.
Friends, if you enjoyed thisconversation and you're even
remotely interested in reading,please go pre-order this book.
Mace has just such a beautifulheart, so many incredible
(46:23):
stories to tell, and you get tobe part of something bigger than
yourself, right?
So buy the book, read ityourself, gift it to somebody.
But you get to be part of thisbigger movement of empowering
and encouraging others as well,which I think is so beautiful.
Not only do you get personalenjoyment from reading it, I
know I'll be nose deep in it onSeptember 9th, but you get to be
part of this bigger movement ofempowering others to really step
(46:46):
into their potential.
It's just so cool.
SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
I love that.
It's those ripples that we getto create, right?
Sometimes that is gifting a bookor just sharing a little tidbit
that you learn with the personthat needs to hear it.
So my website is macecurran.com.
So just my call sign and my lastname.
There's a pop-up for the flipside, of course.
But if you want to go straightto the flip sides page where you
can get those pre-order bonusesand all that, it's
(47:11):
macecurran.com slash flip side.
Instagram is mace underscoreCurran.
I'm also on Facebook, but by thesame name.
I put out a lot of content onLinkedIn.
That's just Michelle Masonquotes Curran.
I try to have solid brandingthat's the same.
So If someone Googles me, all ofthose things show up.
The book is available forpre-order at all the major
(47:32):
retailers.
Of course, Amazon.
It's helpful to diversify wherethe pre-orders come from.
Awesome.
All the reasons we mentioned.
So Barnes& Noble is great.
Books A Million is great.
If you know an indie bookstore,an independent bookstore, and
they happen to have it availablefor pre-order, that's amazing.
Yeah, so it's all over theplace.
It's on Target, all of theplaces.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Oh, that's amazing.
I have this feeling too thatyour book is going to be one of
those books that find peoplewhen they need it like you ever
have like a pile I like collectbooks it's a problem I collect
them faster than I can read thembut sometimes like I'll have had
a book on my bookshelf for likesix months or something and I'm
and I didn't read it when I gotit but then I'm like I just feel
called to read this book rightlike there's something about it
(48:16):
that speaks to you and you pickit up and you start reading it
and you're like oh my gosh thisis exactly what I needed to hear
like I feel like your book isgoing to be one of those where
like somebody reads itthemselves and then a friend
comes over and they're like ohwhat's this book on your
bookshelf right and they startflipping through it and then
they're like this is the book Ineeded right in this moment like
the impact potential is justincredible
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
I hope so I'm excited to hear those stories
and yeah that is the whole pointof all of this so yeah yeah
September 9th I'm excited
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
let the countdown begin well Mace I am so excited
for you I'm so grateful to havehad this conversation and to
just get to be a very small partof this beautiful thing that
you've already built that you'recontinuing to grow.
Best of luck with your speakingseason, but I hope you just have
the most amazing trip late thisfall when you can just like
really savor all the impact thatyou've created and the hearts
(49:07):
that you've touched and yeah,the lives that you've changed.
It's really incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
And this has been such an easyand fun conversation.
So I appreciate you having meon.
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Thank you, Mace.
Thank you for tuning into theOwning Her Authority podcast.
(49:40):
If today's episode resonatedwith you, here's how we can keep
that momentum going.
First, make sure you'resubscribed to the show so you
never miss an episode andcontinue to fuel your journey of
growth and expansion.
Next, share the inspiration.
Take a screenshot of the episodeand share it on your Instagram
stories, tagging me atMissKateHouse, that's at
(50:00):
M-S-K-A-T-E-H-O-U-S-E, so we canget connected and inspire other
women to own And finally, ifyou're feeling extra generous,
please leave a five-star ratingand review on Apple Podcasts.
Your feedback helps us reacheven more women who are
ascending into their power.
And as my special thank you foryour time and your energy, I
(50:21):
would love to support you inmoving from overwhelmed to
empowered with my complimentaryOvercoming Overwhelm
Masterclass.
During this 60-minutemasterclass, you'll learn
practical strategies formanaging stress, finding
clarity, and stepping into yourauthority.
Click on the link in the Let'sdo this together.
Thank you so much.
(00:25):
Hey Mace, welcome to thepodcast.
I am so excited to have you heretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Thank you for having me.
I know all the things I talkabout and I'm about are really
going to align with your show.
And so I'm just really gratefulto be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Oh my goodness.
It's going to be so much fun.
When I was getting to know youand your background and just the
incredible things that you'vedone, I was getting more and
more excited for thisconversation.
And then Mace was so kind andunderstanding because we were
supposed to record a week ago.
And of course, one of my kidsgot sick.
So I had to send her the likeSOS email.
SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
We get it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Yes.
I appreciate I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
So Mace, for anybody who'slistening, and maybe they're not
yet familiar with the work thatyou do, the books that you've
written, the book that's comingout, which we're so excited
about.
Can you just tell us a littlebit about who you are and what
you're all about?
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yeah.
So my actual name is MichelleCurran, but I'm often referred
to by Mace, which is my callsign for my time as a fighter
pilot.
So I spent about 13 years onactive duty in the Air Force,
flying fighter jets, three ofthose years flying for the Air
Force Thunderbirds.
I was the leads solo for thatteam during the COVID timeframe,
(01:28):
kind of 2019 to 2021 is when Idid that.
And then three years ago, I leftthe Air Force to start my own
business as an author.
I published two children'spicture books.
And then I have a book comingout here soon that I know we're
going to talk more about.
That's kind of like mynonfiction adult debut.
I have to be careful because Ihave these kids' books and I
talk about the new book and I'mlike, it's an adult book.
(01:49):
And people are like giving methe raised eyebrows.
Like, are you making a forayinto OnlyFans?
No, not that kind of book.
Anyway, get off topic there.
But my primary thing with mybusiness, in addition to
writing, is being a keynotespeaker.
And during my time with theThunderbirds, I was just in this
position where I had the honorof inspiring and impacting a lot
(02:10):
of people.
And I just started to love thatso much that I wanted to keep
doing it.
And so kind of my new missionnow is to help people flip how
they view fear, overcomeself-doubt, tackle things like
impostors syndrome and reallyclose the potential gap, which
is what I see as the place, thegap between where they currently
(02:31):
are and where they have thepotential to be.
So it's helping people find thecourage to take the action to
close that gap.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
I love that.
What was it for you?
What was your potential gap?
What was the thing that kept youfrom, you know, taking that
action in your own life?
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Yeah, people are always surprised because they
saw me go pursue this dream ofbeing a fighter pilot, which is
kind of like a pionist guy dreamfor a lot of people, right?
It's like one of those thingskids say where they're like, I
want to be a rock star or afighter pilot, a professional
YouTuber, where you're like,those things do exist.
The odds of getting to thosepositions are just pretty small.
And I set that dream.
(03:10):
The odds were against me.
I did it.
But then as I got there, Ireally found myself just hyper
analyzing how I showed up inthis very male dominated type A
kind of environment, which isnot what I am in multiple.
multiple aspects, I'm prettyreserved and introverted and
shy.
And I'm also a woman, if youcan't tell from, from my voice
(03:30):
on the podcast, but I foundmyself just hyper analyzing how
I showed up in this highperformance type, a male
dominated environment.
Um, and that really sent me intothis path of feeling like an
imposter, right?
Like the cliche of, I know it'sa buzzword, imposter syndrome,
buzz phrase, but it was verymuch what I was experiencing.
Just being like, I don't deserveto be in this role.
(03:53):
How the heck did I get here?
here, but I had been at the topof my class in training.
I had demonstrated all thethings at a high level.
I deserved the positions I got,but the higher I got up and the
more the expectations grew andthe performance of the people
around me got higher as I movedinto these different units, my
self-doubt started to creep in.
(04:14):
And so, yes, I achieved this biggoal, but the potential gap for
me once I was there is that Ireally found myself shying away
from opportunities.
Say it's to lead a missionairborne, or it's to go be the
project officer in charge ofsome specific thing, whatever it
is, all of these things thatreally help you grow in your
(04:34):
career, I would shy away fromthose because they came with a
chance of failure.
And it felt like this massivevulnerability because it was
going to expose me where peoplecould potentially realize I
wasn't the person that should bein the job.
SPEAKER_00 (04:48):
Yeah.
And that's the thing withimposter syndrome, right?
Is that
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
fear of exposure.
Absolutely.
And you like physically...
Anyone that's been in thatposition knows what it feels
like.
It is like a physiologicalreaction when you have those
moments where you know youshould do something, you should
speak up in a meeting and shareyour idea, or you should put
your name in the hat for apromotion or whatever that looks
like.
And then that fear paralyzes youand you shy away from it.
(05:14):
And then after the momentpasses, you feel guilty because
you know you should have doneit.
And you're like, what am I soscared of?
But then it happens again andagain, and it can just leave
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Yeah, that's amazing.
(06:24):
And you're like, okay, how do Ibridge this?
I love how you say the potentialgap.
How do you get yourself fromfeeling that desire of like, I
want to put my name in the ring,but you don't to actually taking
the action?
SPEAKER_01 (06:38):
Yeah, my big thing is that you have to start small,
because there are like, say it'sa scale of one to 10.
There are level 10 risks andopportunities you can go after.
And those might have massiverewards.
But often they also have biggerrisks.
repercussions if you fail.
And if you do go after that,either it's so scary and
(06:59):
daunting that you will neveractually find the courage to do
it.
Or if you do have this moment oflike, I'm just going to be brave
for 10 seconds and send theemail.
And then it doesn't work out.
It like scares you so much.
It pushes you back into thislike cave of, well, that wasn't
worth it.
I'm not going to do that again.
So I talk about small, boldchoices and military loves
acronyms.
So I that is like the smallestthing you can do that moves you
(07:29):
towards what your end goal is somaybe that end goal is to just
close the potential gap or maybeit's something more specific
it's to grow in your career orit's to start a new hobby and
for me i ended up starting to dothese really small bold things
so my kind of threshold for theb in sbcs is if it should feel
(07:50):
slightly uncomfortable rightlike it should feel like you're
a beginner like you have tolearn like You have to stretch,
but it shouldn't be souncomfortable that it's
paralyzing.
And a lot of times it'ssomething you could literally do
right now, today, right?
You can make that phone call.
You can send that email.
You can send that resume in.
And so for me, I've moved bases.
So to give you a little bit ofbackground, I'm at my first
(08:12):
operational squadron in Japan,and I have gone through years
and years of training, all thewickets of competing to get a
fighter jet, which to put thatin perspective, there were only
two available for my class of 25students, so it was very
competitive.
I got one of those, beat theodds, go to learn the F-16.
It's much more challenging thanthe training aircraft I was
(08:35):
flying.
Now I get to my first squadron,and being a high achiever, being
a good student, getting thisfighter jet, I was just getting
a lot of accolades and wins,even though I was working my
butt off.
It was a hard environment.
Now I get to the actualsquadron, and everyone around me
is an experienced fighter pilot.
Everyone was the best in theirclass.
SPEAKER_03 (08:54):
And
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
now I'm just like average.
And now I'm not just average,but I'm a beginner.
So I'm bad.
Yeah.
I'm just bad.
And so that is when I reallystruggled with those things I
mentioned of just like so muchself-doubt, holding myself back
from opportunities.
After three years there, I'mvery burned out because I've
constantly been letting myselfdown.
(09:15):
I also feel like I've beendressing up as a fighter pilot
and trying to show up at work assomething that I really wasn't.
Pretending to like sports so Icould be part of the
conversations with the guys orpretending to be assertive and
type A or pretending that like asexist joke didn't make me
uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
There's a lot of pretending and not authentic
behavior happening on my part.
And a lot of that was my ownfault.
Some of it's the environment.
I moved to my next base inTexas.
And I kind of have this pivotalmoment where I realize this is
an entirely new group of people.
I now am a flight lead, whichmeans I could lead four jets
(09:55):
into a combat mission if I hadto.
I have experience under my belt.
And I'm also just burned out ofpretending.
And I'm burned out of feelingthat gap of knowing I have more
potential than I'm showing upwith.
And so I have this distinctmoment in this move, which
really acted as a catalyst whereI'm just like, I'm going to show
(10:15):
up in this squadron as a personI want to be.
SPEAKER_03 (10:18):
It's
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
almost like a fresh start.
And I know everyone doesn't havethat opportunity.
But I think we can create themfor ourselves in smaller ways
sometimes.
(10:54):
And it was like a reallydistinct moment in my mind.
And I started doing that first,just in my hobbies in this new
city.
So I moved to Fort Worth.
I don't know anyone therebesides my new squadron I'm
flying with.
And I wanted to get into a lotof different things that just
weren't accessible in Japan or Ididn't have time for.
So I started to learn how torock climb.
(11:15):
And I took volunteering courses.
I did a solo trip to Nepal,joined up with a group and did
the trek to Everspace camp,which was great.
Freaking awesome.
One of the coolest trips I'veever been on.
But those things at that timefelt bold to me.
SPEAKER_03 (11:30):
And
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
every one of those that I did was just empowering.
And those small, bold choices onkind of the personal side of my
life started to give me more andmore confidence on the
professional side as well, whereI started to make little, bold
moves there, volunteering to dothings, going through an upgrade
where I became an instructorpilot, which is really
(11:52):
challenging.
And so I did that for about 18months.
So relatively short amount oftime in the big scheme of
things.
And I think the person that leftJapan would not have even
recognized who I was a year anda half later.
The growth that happened in thattimeframe, definitely the most
rapid growth period I've evergone through in my life.
(12:15):
And I really do feel like I justdecided that it was time for
that to happen.
Yeah.
A little uncomfortable, but soworth it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
I love that.
But I love too, I What you saidabout the SBCs, the small, bold
choices, is that you didn'tleave.
It seems to me like you didn'tleave Japan and you're like, in
18 months, I want to be thisfuture alter ego of myself.
It was just like, what is thenext SBC?
Because I sometimes think we'retold, what's your five-year
(12:42):
vision or whatever?
If that feels so big, we getstuck.
And we're in inaction becausewe're like, I don't even know
how to do that.
But I love that you startedwith, I always like to say, the
low Yep.
Yep.
(13:24):
Not like you were like, I'm justgoing to move to Fort Worth and
I'm going to be super confidentand do all these things.
In your story, you're sayinglike, no, the confidence was
developed through the doing.
And so many of us, I think, feellike, well, we should just feel
confident and then we'll do thethings.
But it's actually the other wayaround.
Does that feel right to you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
Absolutely.
That is one of the things Ipreach all the time.
I think it's like, you know,anyone that goes to the gym
regularly and lifts weights,like, it's not that strong
people show up and decide to goto the gym.
It's that they They just, theywent to the gym and that's why
they're strong, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
You have to go and you have to not know what you're
doing.
And it's that repetition of likegrowing that muscle of training
your brain to believe inyourself and to be okay figuring
things out and to haveresilience when things don't go
your way.
That takes repetition just likea muscle in the body does.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Yeah.
Will you speak to thatresilience muscle a little bit?
Because I think that too iswhere some of us get stuck where
we're like, well, I took thatbold action, but I got it.
know, right?
And then like you said, then weget stuck in this cycle of doubt
or questioning ourselves or ourabilities or worst case
scenario, we're like, oh, no,that just affirms what I thought
about myself and that I'm notcapable, right?
(14:37):
And you're like, wait, but Ithink I am.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
But we for sure get stuck in our own heads.
And then we choose what data wepull around us.
It's the confirmation bias,right?
We're like, well, I don'tbelieve in myself.
So I'm only going to payattention to the signals that
tell me that that's true.
Even when someone I reallyrespect might come up and tell
me that I'm doing awesome andthen they believe in me, I'm
(15:01):
going to set my respect asidefor a second just to be like, I
don't believe them because thatconfirms the belief or lack of
belief in myself.
Yeah.
So it was one of those thingsthat just took practice.
And I think growing up andbeing, I was an adventurous kid.
My parents always say I was likea really easy kid.
(15:23):
Like I was just so motivated.
I wanted to get straight A's.
I did that, all the things.
And I think that's great.
It gave me the opportunities toget an ROTC scholarship, which
got me my pilot slot.
But one of the things I don'tthink I built at a young age was
resilience because I neverreally failed at anything until
I got to Japan.
And now when I'm failing at thatlevel, the consequences are
(15:46):
high.
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Right.
Yeah.
Because it's very different thangetting like a B in sophomore
year of high school.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
A hundred percent.
And I think about that with Mystepson who's 12 and I think one
of the biggest gifts you cangive as a parent is to let your
kids experience that adversityand not make the team or fail on
the test.
You know, like whatever, likewe, of course we want this kid
who's just a shining star.
They're like the best athlete.
(16:11):
They're the straight A student.
They're just all the things.
But personally, having been oneof those kids, it can set you up
for failure later in lifebecause those lessons are tough
to learn when you're in acareer.
where decisions really matter.
And I think that's what I wentthrough.
And I had to experience that Icould fail, that I could feel
(16:32):
like I was at a really lowpoint, and that I could dig
myself out of it.
And I think that's where thatgrowth period in Fort Worth
happened is because those threeyears in Japan, I had
experienced a lot of adversity.
I'd really been in a low point.
And it had allowed me to startto experience what resilience
really meant.
(16:53):
And I don't think I would havehad the perspective then because
I felt like I was doing all theright things, but I was lacking
grit.
I could do well on the physicalfitness test and I could run
really fast and push my body anddo all the pushups and set these
big goals, but I was lackingresilience when it came to
failing, when it came to thefeelings of shame or
(17:17):
embarrassment or judgment ofother people.
I was very fragile around thosethings.
And I had to kind of go throughthat fire to just fortify those
skills and learn how to do themas an adult.
SPEAKER_00 (17:30):
Yeah, it's so true.
I think I similarly, well, I'mnot a fighter pilot, we should
say, but I can identify with,you know, being the high
achiever, the straight Astudent, you know, the Phi Beta
Kappa graduate, right?
And then you get out into theworkforce and you're like, oh,
wait, but I'm not perfect atthis, but I'm pretty sure I did
everything you said I should do.
So like, why am I not a shiningall-star anymore, right?
(17:52):
And then, yeah, it's It's reallya lot of self-reflection.
And I love that, you know, youtook that season, those 18
months.
I mean, it's incredible how muchyou can change in 18 months,
right?
When you give yourselfpermission.
And it almost sounds like maybea little bit of curiosity.
Like when you said, you know, Itried mountaineering and I
learned how to rock climb and,you know, gave yourself
permission to be curious aboutthe things that you're like, oh,
(18:15):
this might be kind of fun orthis might be interesting,
right?
And sometimes I think, too, wetry something and sometimes we
learn like, oh, I don't likethat thing.
Exactly.
That's okay too.
Has that ever happened to you?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Yeah, definitely.
I think, well, it's beeninteresting this evolution I've
had with flying because that wasmy end all be all goal as a ROTC
college student was to become afighter pilot.
And I went and I did that.
And now I'm in a dream job formost people.
I've achieved the thing I setout to achieve.
(18:46):
And from the exterior, everyonewatches Top Gun and they're
like, that's the coolest jobever.
SPEAKER_03 (18:50):
And
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
then I fast forward and I've been doing it for a
decade.
I, you know, to close the gapbetween that 18 months in Fort
Worth, I spent three yearsthere.
And at the end of thatthree-year assignment is when I
saw the email that theThunderbirds were hiring.
And it was something that hadalways intrigued me.
Yeah.
But in the past, whenever I hadlike seen they were hiring or
(19:12):
someone had brought it up inconversation, I had those two
conflicting feelings of thatsounds really fun and exciting.
I'm not good enough to do thatkind of flying.
Right.
Look at all the public judgmentthat would come with being in
that position.
Yeah, that imposter's voice getsreally loud.
(19:53):
to put in an application to tryto go to that team.
And I do that.
I get to the Thunderbirds.
I'm doing the coolest flyingaround, in my opinion.
It is hard.
I'm a beginner again.
There's a little bit of a shockthere.
Once you get your arms aroundthe flying, it's just really fun
and exciting.
You're upside down, 100 feet offthe ground, flying just under
(20:14):
the speed of sound, a few feetfrom other airplanes.
It's like nothing I'd done inthe Air Force before.
And I get partway through thatassignment, which I ended up
spending three years there.
And I'm realizing I don't loveit anymore.
And this is the thing I'msupposed to love.
This is the thing that everyonearound me is like, that's so
freaking cool.
Congratulations.
(20:34):
And on the inside, I'm like, I'mstarting to feel where it's no
longer aligned with my end goaland my values of what I really
want to contribute to the world.
And it was the most amazingexperience.
I'm very grateful for the timethere and all the great people I
got to work with and just thecrazy stuff.
But I left flying.
(20:57):
I didn't go on to fly for theairlines.
I didn't stay in the Air Forceand go back to a combat squadron
flying gray F-16s after theThunderbirds, which I think was
shocking to a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
But
SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
I had found that flying of all things, which had
been just like what my wholelife revolved around for 13
years, was no longer the thingfor me.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
Yeah.
But, you know, if I were toreflect back, I think what is so
cool, though, is that when youhad, how did you put it?
Yeah.
(21:53):
Like, I'm going to do my nextSBC.
And you realize like, oh, thisisn't an alignment anymore.
And I mean, that must have been,I mean, it gives me like
goosebumps to think about it.
Like, I can't imagine thefortitude and the resilience it
took to walk away from thatcareer where maybe the
expectation was, well, youwouldn't step away from it,
right?
And to say confidently, youknow, no, I want to go in this
(22:16):
other direction.
I mean, what a beautifulexample.
SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
I felt very clear that it was the right decision
for me.
Like, My purpose, which I sharedat the beginning of the show,
became so clear that I was like,I am the right person at the
right time, just lucky enough tobe in this position where I can
see how this can have a massiveimpact if I transition to the
civilian side and I get to tellmy story and I get to build my
(22:41):
business focused on doing that.
But there's a lot of otherpeople's outside opinions that
are very loud at that point.
And I mean, you have for, Iguess, the least level of
impact, I have the general realpublic right uh-huh the people
chiming in on social mediathey're like what are you doing
how would you like I would givemy right arm to have that job
(23:01):
and you're choosing to leave itlike what's wrong with you yeah
but then I have like familyraising eyebrows and then I have
the people I work with whichwere probably like the the
loudest voices to me becausethese are my peers we trust each
other with our lives I admire alot of them a lot of them have a
very like I don't want to saystrict.
(23:23):
That's not the right word.
They have a very defined versionof what success in the Air Force
looks like.
It's being the best tacticalfighter pilot.
It's moving up in rank.
It's becoming a squadroncommander.
All those things.
And we need those people.
But that just no longer feltlike it was the way that I could
have the biggest impact.
And it no longer felt like itwas the thing that I personally
(23:46):
wanted to do.
And it felt like a leap ofcourage, not necessarily to take
the risk of leaving the securityof a government paycheck and all
the benefits, but more so therisk of disappointing people or
being like, this is what I'mgoing to go do and then
potentially failing at it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
Yeah, totally.
How did you manage that?
Because I know there are a lotof women in my community.
Something I hear from them oftenis this fear of judgment, this
fear of letting people down,which I hear a lot in us high
achievers, right?
And so how did you navigateRight.
Did you have the conversationswith the people, you know, that
(24:26):
really matter?
Not necessarily the stranger onthe Internet who's like, well,
what are you doing?
Right.
But, you know, the colleaguesthat you respect and admire and
even family members.
I hear a lot from my communityas well as they're like, I have
this thing on my heart.
I want to pursue it.
But like my, you know, sister'sgoing to judge me or my mom's
not going to understand or mypartner's not going to get it.
(24:48):
What would just be like how didyou navigate that or what
encouragement would you say tothat person?
I.
I
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
think when I defined my why very clearly and I had
these stories from my time as aThunderbird where I could just
see that impact happen and Iknew how that was going to end
if I stayed in the Air Force andI knew how I could translate
that if I got out.
Once I kind of shared thosemoments, family members were
(25:13):
like, okay, that sounds awesome.
Like we're on board.
It was probably just like alittle bit of being surprised,
but then like this all makessense.
And they've been amazinglysupportive I think for my peers,
the people that matter that areactual friends that actually
care about me as a personoutside of the specific role I
was in at the time, they havegotten on board and they are
(25:36):
like cheering me on from theside.
They see the impact happening.
The people that don't get it.
I just remind myself thatthey're not my target audience.
Yeah.
Right.
They're not your people.
No, those like my message isn'tgoing to be for everyone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, I have to remind myselfof that because Because I do
get, you know, negative commentssometimes.
(25:57):
And it's easy to let thosecreate an emotional reaction.
(26:23):
that person, if they're even aperson, is not your target
audience.
And I bring myself back to thosemoments I got to have with,
especially little girls, while Iwas with the Thunderbirds and
just flying an air show, goingup to the fence afterwards,
doing an autograph session,having parents bring their
daughters up.
And this six, seven,eight-year-old, kind of the core
(26:45):
age group where they would bepretty shy and a little bit
scared of me.
And then a lot of times the momwould drag them up there and be
like, look, She just flew thatjet, that jet that went upside
down, that like rocketed uptowards the sky.
That was her.
And you could see the light bulbmoment happen for these kids.
And it was just like, wait, whatI can do just got bigger.
(27:07):
Like the possibilities in theworld just expanded for me.
And it was, I know that's a giftto them, but seeing that moment
happen in real time in front ofmy eyes was like the most
fulfilling, rewarding gift to meas well.
just knew that there were moreways to do that for kids and for
adults.
(27:29):
What do you want to do as ahuman on the earth in your
lifetime?
What is it really all about?
What are we doing here?
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Yeah, because our time is so limited.
Yeah.
And I love how you say that whenyour why was so defined and you
articulated it to the peoplethat really mattered to you,
that they were like, oh, yeah, Isee that.
I get behind that.
And so having that clearlydefined why but then I just
think about like oh I lovepicturing the little girls like
(27:57):
up at the fence right but thento think about you know the two
well three books now that you'vewritten but the first two for
children like I think about likevisually I try to picture like
the thousands of children thathave been impacted by that work
right so like those little girlswho are there in person amazing
right but just like I mean youcan probably like 100x that with
(28:19):
the work that you're doing nowand speaking of books so tell us
a little bit about yourchildren's books.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
So the first kids book, so they're children's
picture books.
They're for, you know, anywherefrom kids you read to before
they go to bed that can't readthemselves yet to probably like
eight or nine year olds, I wouldsay.
They're about a little girlwho's eight years old.
Her name's Lily Padilly, and shewants to be a fighter pilot.
Where this idea came from is myfirst year on the Thunderbirds.
We were at the Smithsonian Airand Space Museum in Washington,
(29:14):
DC.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
it's my favorite Smithsonian.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
so good.
So good.
We're there like doing a meetand greet as the Thunderbirds.
So I'm in my show suit.
We have a little bit of time.
So I go in the bookstore andit's just such a cool place all
of this space and aviation likeanything from freeze-dried ice
cream to flight suits like youcan get so much cool stuff there
they have a big book section andI'm looking at the children's
books and there's just notreally any that have a female
(29:40):
protagonist that little girlsare going to relate to there's
some about Amelia Earhart ofcourse right which I think the
history is important but it'shard for a six-year-old to
connect with the historicalfigure yes it's just kind of a
different thing and I'm like Iwant to write a kid's picture
book about a little girl thatwants to be a fighter pilot.
Yes.
So that's in 2019.
(30:00):
The pandemic happens in 2020 andI have a little bit of downtime
because our schedule was justinsane.
And so there was just no time tofocus on anything else.
Being home in quarantine, I waslike, yeah, let's work on this.
Yeah.
Might as well write the book.
So, you know, kids books, six to750 words, like not the same as
writing a 70,000 word book, likeflip side.
Of course.
(30:21):
So I work on this manuscript.
I have some great people I canbounce ideas off of and I'm like
I'm going to start submittingthis to literary agents I had no
idea how publishing worked I'mlike hey I'm the lead solo for
the Air Force Thunderbirds Ihave this book blah blah blah I
send out like 50 pitches andit's just crickets also the
publishing world is goingthrough the pandemic too so it's
(30:42):
just like not the time to bedoing it so I'm like okay well
this is going to be harder thanI thought air show start back up
I'm just super busy again so Ikind of just table this edited
manuscript which is on mylaptop.
Fast forward to, I've alreadydecided I'm leaving the Air
Force.
I have my first keynote speechon the books for right after I
(31:03):
leave active duty.
So I'm working on this speechand I started to be active on
LinkedIn.
It's just a great platform forspeakers.
And you know, like those areyour target audience, right?
These are business.
So I start to create a lot ofcontent on there and I get a
message from a fellow author.
And I happened to mention that Ihave this children's book
manuscript and she's like, oh, Iwrite children's books.
(31:26):
Let me connect you with mypublisher.
Like skip the agent.
Let's just go straight to thepublisher.
It's like a smaller women runpublishing company.
I get connected with them.
They're called Endgame Press.
And they were just like, we lovethis.
Let's do it.
Oh, that's so amazing.
It was awesome.
So the book was brought to life.
It was a year later from thatpoint.
So like June of 2023 that itfinally released after having
(31:51):
had the idea in 2019.
Wrote the manuscript in 2020.
So it's a process.
That one, they liked it so much.
They're like, let's do a secondone, which is called What's Your
Call Sign?
You know, about fighter pilotnicknames.
And so it's the same characters.
But yeah, the books have beenreally well received.
It's been a great way to stayconnected with kids since most
(32:11):
of the speaking that I do is forcorporations.
So that was kind of like, thatjust came from that spark of
inspiration that I had there inSpace Museum.
But then it's like, okay, now wehave two of these.
and then it's like I'm doingthese speeches the the Reception
is really incredible.
I talk about self-doubt.
I'm talking about vulnerability,all these things that people
(32:33):
don't expect from a fighterpilot or a Thunderbird pilot,
but it's combined with theselike edge of the seat flying
stories that people are justlike fascinated by.
And
SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
from a female perspective, which we haven't
heard a
SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
lot of.
Yeah.
Right.
And like, I mean, I'm justgetting great feedback from
everyone, but especially like somany women are coming up
afterwards.
Just like, I feel like you wrotethat for me.
I'm going to go do this becauseof it.
And then I did it for longenough, people would start to
follow up and be like, I saw youspeak six months ago.
Here's what I did because of it.
And here's what happened.
(33:08):
Like, here's the outcome.
It's like, this is the coolestthing.
I would get so excited when Igot those messages.
Of course.
So people are like, do you havea book?
Do you have a book?
I'm like, well, I have kidsbooks, but they're like an
adult, right?
They don't want to read apicture book for a
seven-year-old.
So I'm like, I do have so manymore stories.
(33:29):
I have so many more lessons thatI can't fit in a 45 minute
keynote and people are wantingmore.
So I start to explore what itwould look like to write a book.
Like how does the proposalprocess work?
How do all the things.
So that has been almost threeyears ago now.
It'll be three years in August.
So when this episode airs, it'llhave been three years ago.
(33:51):
Yeah.
I ended up working with aghostwriter because I needed to
sort through all this stuff inmy head.
Of course.
So to have an outside partywho's just like an expert, like
be able to discuss thesestories, be able to reflect on
what I learned from them.
It was like a therapy sessionworking with her.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
my gosh.
I can only imagine.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
It was awesome.
I have no regrets.
People are like, does it feelweird to you that you like
you're a single seat fighterpilot and you like relied on
this ghostwriter to help you?
And I was like, think about allthe things we take on where we
reach out to experts to help usdo it.
Writing a book is a massiveundertaking.
It is a legacy.
It is something I don't wantjust like a business card book
(34:31):
that's just checking a box.
I want this to be a bestseller.
I want it to impact people.
I want it to change lives.
Why would I not work with thebest people I can to help me do
that?
So her name's Jen.
She's amazing.
We get a publishing deal withone of the top, the big five
publishers, which I was justlike, I'm on cloud nine.
(34:54):
I'm like, I can't believe thisis happening.
Oh man, now I actually have towrite the rest of this book,
deliver a 70,000 wordmanuscript, like giddy up, here
we go.
We did that for the next sixmonths or so, all the rounds of
edits.
And then it finally comes out
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
September 9th.
Oh my goodness.
So friends, if you're listeningto this and you're like, Mesa's
speaking my language and she'slike exhibiting what I want to
grow into, somebody who isconfident, somebody who's
resilient.
So much of what I'm hearing fromyour publishing journey is
resilience, right?
Like you sent out all thosepitches.
Right.
And writing the flip side andthat taking three years to come
(35:40):
to fruition.
Right.
A lot of these things that wework towards that leave a
legacy.
Right.
That have so much impact.
Take time.
Right.
And we live in such a world oflike instant gratification.
So like if you want to besomebody who is resilient like
Mace and who is taking actionand creating that confidence,
make sure you have that.
you pre-order the book.
I was on Mesa's website earliertoday.
You can literally pre-order iteverywhere you get books.
(36:03):
And I know you have some reallyincredible value that you're
giving to everybody whopre-orders.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about those?
Because I was reading yourwebsite and my jaw was just
dropping.
I'm like, I'm so excited for allof this.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Yeah, it is.
I've learned so much aboutpublishing.
And one of the big things isjust how important pre-orders
are.
And before I wrote this book, Iwould see other people pushing
pre-orders.
And I'm like, well, why wouldn'tI wait till a the book releases,
then I'll order it on Amazon.
It'll show up the same day.
Like, heck yeah, immediategratification here for that.
So pre-orders, A, for mostpeople, that is what determines
(36:37):
if they make the New York Timesbestseller list, which is, I'm
all about telling people mygoals now, even if they're like
big and audacious, because thenthe bright people show up to
help you make them happen.
I want to make the New YorkTimes bestseller list.
That is how the book gets in themost people's hands.
It has that impact.
So those are primarily, based onpre-sales.
(37:00):
It also signals to the publisherhow big the first print run is.
It signals to places like Targetthat they should actually put in
their stores, not just on thewebsite.
So there's my spiel forpre-orders.
They're so important.
So to get that across to people,because I don't always have the
opportunity to explain for threeminutes what they are and how
important they are, I did somepre-order bonus incentives.
(37:23):
It's a bunch of cool stuff.
It's a discussion guide.
So it's like a workbook, PDFthat takes you through different
exercises along with the book.
It's a behind the scenesinterview between Jen and I, my
ghostwriter.
Cool.
And we talk about the hardparts, like the challenging
subjects and trying to navigate,like, how much do I talk about
the challenges of being a womanin that
SPEAKER_03 (37:42):
environment?
SPEAKER_01 (37:43):
Like, how do we do all of this?
So we, you know, got in a studioand talked about all of that.
There's a Spotify playlist,which seems like the most
obscure thing, but people reallylove it.
They're like, it just goes alongwith the themes of the book and
it's like a fun little insightinto people's preferences when
you get to find out what musicthey choose absolutely yeah and
(38:04):
then access to the first chapteris like one of my favorite
things because as soon assomeone pre-orders and they fill
out the little form on thewebsite they instantly get a
link to go read the firstchapter and they don't have to
wait till september 9th untilthe book ships so that was a
long spiel the full title is theflip side how to invert your
perspective and turn fear intoyour superpower and people are
(38:26):
like what type of a book is itit's really memoir mated with
self-help because every chapterhas a story cool stories about
almost g-locking in the jetwhich is going unconscious from
the g-forces story about hittinga bird with a six-foot wingspan
and putting holes in theairplane like and those are some
(38:48):
of the more extreme ones almosta near head-on collision that we
had on the thunderbirds likethey're compelling intriguing
stories but everyone it's likewhat did i learn from that what
are the tools and like themindset hacks and all the things
that helped me move forward fromthat and how do these translate
into someone who's not in ahigh-speed aircraft yeah what
(39:11):
tools can they use in theireveryday life yeah and every
chapter ends with these twocolumns where it's the script
side is what we call it whichare like the stale scripts in
your tell yourself right thetrack that we have that's just
not helpful and then it's Nextto it, it's got the flip side.
Like how we can flip how we viewfear, how we can flip how we
(39:32):
view failure, how we can chooseto respond in a productive way
when things go awry.
Like there's just so many usefulthings.
I'm like 10% terrified becauseit's like putting a baby out
into the world.
Of course, it's like your heart
SPEAKER_00 (39:49):
in a book.
SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Yeah, it's like 270 some pages of vulnerability,
right?
And of course we'll be critics,but I'm 90% excited because I
know there's so many people thatit's going to resonate with.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Oh, it's amazing.
Well, I love to, I'm reallyexcited to read it because I
love books like that where I cansit down, I read a ridiculous
amount, but I love a book whereI can sit down in bed and I know
every night I can read onechapter and learn something and
reflect and then I can put itdown and then like the next day
I'll find myself kind of likemulling over what was learned
(40:21):
and then later that night I getto sit down and then read the
next chapter, right?
And so it just can continue tobuild on itself and What I love
about your pre-order incentivesis that it really helps us.
So many of us I find in theoverachieving community, you
know, we like to call itoverlearning in my community.
You know, we've listened to allthe books on all the podcasts
and the audio books andwhatever, but then we don't
(40:42):
actually implement.
And so I love that you havethis, you know, the, was it the
script and the flip side?
Yeah, the script side and theflip side.
think about what we're learningto use your workbook to
implement it in our own livesbecause that's kind of where the
magic happens right it's in thepeople that listen to you speak
(41:04):
and they're like I'm gonna go dothis thing right like oh my gosh
and I can't wait for like whenyou're a New York Times
bestseller and then the notesyou get back from women three
months out from when the bookdrops six months out and when
they're telling you all thethings that they did like oh my
gosh like you're changing theworld it's so cool I
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
cannot wait like yeah it's I feel like I'm living
in just a series of pinch memoments right now like the fact
that this book is actually realthat it's like being printed i'm
you know by the time this airs iwill have gotten the actual
first copies physically mailedto me a complete book i have a
mock-up behind me in this videoand that like i've had a few
(41:46):
people preview it who areworking with maybe it's like my
publicist or people that areworking on it in different ways
and the fact from them has beenso awesome that it just gets me
more and more
SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
excited it's amazing have you thought about So one
thing we like to talk about hereis how we celebrate when we have
these big milestones because itcan be so hard for us high
achievers because we're justlike onto the next thing.
Yes.
How are you going to celebrate?
SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
Yeah.
So everyone's like, you're goingto need to take a vacation.
The hard thing as a keynotespeaker is that the book
releases September 9th.
September to like the firstcouple of weeks of November is
prime speaking conventionseason.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Yep.
So you're going to be superbusy.
I'm going to be busy.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
But my husband and I booked a trip, just the two of
us in December to go to Thailandoh so cool and it's amazing
we're recording this in what isit June right now so it's still
so far away but it was like Ihe's like are you sure you want
to get that on the I was likeyes I need this thing waiting
for me at the end of one of thecraziest years ever
SPEAKER_03 (42:45):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
just to like a time I've been running kind of ragged
like just traveling a ton superbusy so it's important for us to
have that time to reconnect butalso to just like Like we're
doing it.
Yeah.
It's a thing.
We're doing the thing like this.
Like I'm was not good for areally long time at celebrating
(43:07):
wins, especially smaller wins.
Yep.
But now I like make a point inmy business, you know, even if
it's like booking on a greatpodcast, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's celebrate this.
And that keeps that motivationgoing when the schedule and the
days and like the time betweenbreaks can be long.
SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
Yeah.
Oh, I love that so much, Mace.
That's so important for us toremember to like to celebrate
our wins and the things thatwe've done.
Cause yeah, you're right.
It can be, especially the littlethings that can be hard to
celebrate.
And then because we haven'tgotten used to celebrating along
the way, the big thing happensand we're like, oh wait, I
should probably celebrate thistoo.
So I'm already picturing youguys like on a beach with like
(43:47):
something delicious to drink andeat and just like spending time
connecting and just like, justcelebrating all that you've done
this year.
I mean, it's incredible.
So as we wrap up thisconversation, Mace, like what is
just like the one encouragementyou would want to leave a
listener with?
Like for the woman who'slistening, who identifies with
the imposter syndrome, whoidentifies with like knowing
(44:09):
that she wants and was made formore, but isn't sure how to
bridge that potential gap,right?
She's not, she's, and she's justfeeling a little stuck, but
she's hearing you right now.
And she's like, oh my gosh, Macehas me so fired up.
I'm she does feel so nervous.
What, like what encouragementwould you tell her?
SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
Yeah, there's a line that I say towards the end of my
speeches.
And it's one that people, Ialways see people like start
writing notes.
I think it kind of encompassesall the, like the different
themes.
And that is that the key toprogress is having the courage
to start something, even whenyou don't feel ready, but
believing yourself enough toknow you will figure it out
(44:51):
along the way.
It's just that sliver of beliefthat you need that I don't have
all the answers right now.
SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
Right.
Like, you know, you get like thebutterflies or like, you know,
my first podcast episode I everrecorded solo.
Mind you, I wasn't even talkingto anybody.
I like sweat through my T-shirtbecause I was so nervous.
Right.
But like and recorded on thewrong microphone for the first
three episodes.
But like you said, like you justhave to start and then you keep
learning and you keep showing upand you build that confidence.
(45:47):
And I love it.
You don't have to have all theanswers to get started.
Right.
You can do it a little bitscared.
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
Absolutely.
So I think if people wouldembrace that, there would be so
many more people walking aroundfeeling like they were living at
where they have the potential tolive at.
SPEAKER_00 (46:02):
Yeah.
Oh, that's so beautiful.
Okay.
So Mace, as we wrap up, wherecan folks find you online?
I know you've got your websiteand Instagram are great places
to find you.
So we'll chat about those andthen just tell us again where
folks can pre-order the book.
Friends, if you enjoyed thisconversation and you're even
remotely interested in reading,please go pre-order this book.
Mace has just such a beautifulheart, so many incredible
(46:23):
stories to tell, and you get tobe part of something bigger than
yourself, right?
So buy the book, read ityourself, gift it to somebody.
But you get to be part of thisbigger movement of empowering
and encouraging others as well,which I think is so beautiful.
Not only do you get personalenjoyment from reading it, I
know I'll be nose deep in it onSeptember 9th, but you get to be
part of this bigger movement ofempowering others to really step
(46:46):
into their potential.
It's just so cool.
SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
I love that.
It's those ripples that we getto create, right?
Sometimes that is gifting a bookor just sharing a little tidbit
that you learn with the personthat needs to hear it.
So my website is macecurran.com.
So just my call sign and my lastname.
There's a pop-up for the flipside, of course.
But if you want to go straightto the flip sides page where you
can get those pre-order bonusesand all that, it's
(47:11):
macecurran.com slash flip side.
Instagram is mace underscoreCurran.
I'm also on Facebook, but by thesame name.
I put out a lot of content onLinkedIn.
That's just Michelle Masonquotes Curran.
I try to have solid brandingthat's the same.
So If someone Googles me, all ofthose things show up.
The book is available forpre-order at all the major
(47:32):
retailers.
Of course, Amazon.
It's helpful to diversify wherethe pre-orders come from.
Awesome.
All the reasons we mentioned.
So Barnes& Noble is great.
Books A Million is great.
If you know an indie bookstore,an independent bookstore, and
they happen to have it availablefor pre-order, that's amazing.
Yeah, so it's all over theplace.
It's on Target, all of theplaces.
SPEAKER_00 (47:54):
Oh, that's amazing.
I have this feeling too thatyour book is going to be one of
those books that find peoplewhen they need it like you ever
have like a pile I like collectbooks it's a problem I collect
them faster than I can read thembut sometimes like I'll have had
a book on my bookshelf for likesix months or something and I'm
and I didn't read it when I gotit but then I'm like I just feel
called to read this book rightlike there's something about it
(48:16):
that speaks to you and you pickit up and you start reading it
and you're like oh my gosh thisis exactly what I needed to hear
like I feel like your book isgoing to be one of those where
like somebody reads itthemselves and then a friend
comes over and they're like ohwhat's this book on your
bookshelf right and they startflipping through it and then
they're like this is the book Ineeded right in this moment like
the impact potential is justincredible
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
I hope so I'm excited to hear those stories
and yeah that is the whole pointof all of this so yeah yeah
September 9th I'm excited
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
let the countdown begin well Mace I am so excited
for you I'm so grateful to havehad this conversation and to
just get to be a very small partof this beautiful thing that
you've already built that you'recontinuing to grow.
Best of luck with your speakingseason, but I hope you just have
the most amazing trip late thisfall when you can just like
really savor all the impact thatyou've created and the hearts
(49:07):
that you've touched and yeah,the lives that you've changed.
It's really incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
And this has been such an easyand fun conversation.
So I appreciate you having meon.
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Thank you, Mace.
Thank you for tuning into theOwning Her Authority podcast.
(49:40):
If today's episode resonatedwith you, here's how we can keep
that momentum going.
First, make sure you'resubscribed to the show so you
never miss an episode andcontinue to fuel your journey of
growth and expansion.
Next, share the inspiration.
Take a screenshot of the episodeand share it on your Instagram
stories, tagging me atMissKateHouse, that's at
(50:00):
M-S-K-A-T-E-H-O-U-S-E, so we canget connected and inspire other
women to own And finally, ifyou're feeling extra generous,
please leave a five-star ratingand review on Apple Podcasts.
Your feedback helps us reacheven more women who are
ascending into their power.
And as my special thank you foryour time and your energy, I
(50:21):
would love to support you inmoving from overwhelmed to
empowered with my complimentaryOvercoming Overwhelm
Masterclass.
During this 60-minutemasterclass, you'll learn
practical strategies formanaging stress, finding
clarity, and stepping into yourauthority.
Click on the link in the Let'sdo this together.
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