July 23, 2025 • 47 mins
On this episode, we meet with Beth Docherty, a sexual assault survivor, and Suzanne Estrella, the Commonwealth Victim Advocate, at the Office of Victim Advocate. Beth will share her story and then we will dive into the details of storytelling as a path to healing for survivors.
Be advised: This episode deals with details of a sexual assault. If that makes you uncomfortable, you may want to skip this episode.
This project was supported by Grant No. 15JOVW-24-GG-00974-MUMU awarded by the Office on Violence Against Women, U.S. Department of Justice. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this publication/program/exhibition are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U.S. Department of Justice.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Welcome to PA Centered, a podcast designed to help listeners be a part
of the solution to end sexual harassment, abuse, and assault. Each episode,
we will take on a topic or current event to help spark conversation
and break down barriers to building communities free from sexual violence.
(00:32):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the PA Centered podcast hosted by the
Pennsylvania Coalition to Advance Respect, or PCAR. My name is Cody Henry.
I am the communications and policy specialist at PCAR, and I will be
your host for today's episode. Now, today's episode is trying something
a little different. We've invited Suzanne Estrella, Commonwealth
(00:53):
victim advocate at the Office of Victim Advocate, and Beth Dougherty,
a sexual assault survivor. Beth will be sharing her story with us,
and then we will jump into some questions about the process of her
speaking about what happened and how she found the strength to do so.
Finally, we will jump over to Susan with the Office of Victim Advocate
to get some background on preparing speakers like Beth with sharing their
(01:14):
stories to the public. Now, this episode will discuss details of sexual
assault. If that makes you uncomfortable, you may want to skip this episode.
So let's begin. Beth, can you tell us a little bit about who
you are outside of your experience as a survivor? Yes, thanks for asking.
Thanks for the invitation to be on the podcast. It's really,
(01:35):
an honor to be here with the two of you.
So while being a survivor has shaped who I am, it really doesn't
define me. It's part of my story, but it's not the whole story.
I haven't separated it from my life. It kind of shows up in
my work and what I care about and how I move through the
world. But I'm also a chemist, a musician, a writer, and I'm a
(01:56):
passionate advocate for trauma-informed care. And while the advocacy is
personal, it also comes from a larger desire to change,
create change in the world. And I carry what I've been through with
me, but it kind of walks alongside the other parts of who I
am. And music is a huge part of my life.
I've played in a symphony, I play flute in the symphony orchestra for
(02:18):
like 30 some years. I sing and play guitar in a rock band.
I lead a contemporary group at my church.
Music has always been a constant in my life. It's creative,
collaborative, and grounding for me. And I'm also currently working on writing
a memoir. And I recently had an essay accepted in the HuffPost about
(02:38):
why trauma-informed care is so essential. And it should be out soon.
And I serve as principal of the Trust Project.
It's a research and outreach initiative that educates medical professionals
and students on how trauma impacts health and
well-being. And through this work, I lead workshops and
trainings for organizations who are seeking to adopt a
(03:00):
trauma-informed approach. And I lecture at universities, medical centers,
conferences, public events across the country. And I'm an active member
of Heal PA, which is in their physical behavioral action team.
And it's an initiative working to implement trauma-informed practices across
Pennsylvania. And then on a more personal note,
(03:22):
my husband and I are about to celebrate our 26th wedding anniversary.
And we share a love for the outdoors, spend as much time as
we can camping and hiking and paddling across the United States,
especially in our beautiful PA state parks. And about 12 years ago,
we also discovered competitive ballroom dancing, which has brought us to
(03:46):
this even closer connection and just has brought this new dimension to our
lives. So just grateful to be here. Okay, awesome. Well,
happy soon to be anniversary then. Yeah, thanks.
Competitive ballroom dancing sounds very interesting. It's been such a journey,
(04:06):
an incredible journey. All right. So what led to wanting to share your
story publicly? Well, I think it was in 2006,
I was asked to be on, it was called a Panel of Hope
at Pittsburgh Action Against Rape as part of their
(04:27):
survivors information support series. And while... I only shared just a
small part of my story, including a little bit of my healing journey,
but even that small step turned out to be incredibly healing for me
and powerful and not just for me, but for the survivors in the
room. And I remember feeling something shift at that point. While it was
(04:49):
healing, it seemed to make a difference to others. So in that moment,
I felt this kind of freedom that I wasn't used to. And I realized
that by speaking up, I was actually giving back. And I think it
was the first time I truly understood that everything I had been through
had meaning and it wasn't all for nothing.
And after speaking that small panel, I was invited to be the keynote
(05:11):
at Pittsburgh Action Against Rape and then also at PCAR. And those experiences
really changed something in me. And it felt so freeing, like reclaiming
part of my life because I had been
almost just like forced to disconnect from it. So often survivors
separate from their own bodies and from their emotions and even from other
people to survive. But when I spoke out, it kind of sounds strange,
(05:36):
but I felt whole again, you know, reconnected almost.
And more than that, I realized I could use my voice to change
the many harmful myths that still surround rape and child sexual abuse.
And then I joined the Pennsylvania Commission of Crime and Delinquency
Speakers Bureau, which now is Resilient Voices, which I know Suzanne is
(05:59):
in charge of. And our training was held over an entire weekend.
And at the end, all of us, there were like seven of us
there, shared our stories to those in the room and to our family
members who had attended with us. And that was so powerful.
And it's really what keeps me speaking today. I think about that experience,
I'm so thankful for that experience and thankful for Resilient Voices too.
(06:26):
Okay. Now I'm going to jump to Suzanne real quick. Can you tell
us about Resilient Voices and what led to its creation?
Sure. Thank you so much for having me today. Resilient Voices is a
volunteer crime survivor speaker program that elevates crime survivor voices
by providing opportunities to impact others through storytelling.
(06:51):
The Office of Victim Advocate actually inherited the program from PCCD,
as Beth mentioned, and that was several years before my time here.
But we're happy to be able to facilitate the program and to see
it grow and expand. Okay. And Suzanne, why is storytelling such a powerful
(07:14):
tool in the healing process for survivors? I think it's important because
when you just think about life in general and how important it is
to feel like people see you and people understand you. So storytelling is
that opportunity for the survivor to be seen and to be heard on
(07:35):
their terms. And so I think that's why it's so impactful.
Okay, then. Yeah, I feel like storytelling has been around since humans
began speaking almost. Like there has to be something special to it.
Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Beth, we're going to jump back to you.
And so now we're going to open it up for you to share
(07:59):
your story. You can take as much time as you want.
If you need to pause, that's completely fine. Totally understand.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable, we're going to go on
mute. And yeah, it'll be completely up to you. Okay? Okay,
thanks, Cody. I appreciate that. No problem. The floor is all yours.
Okay, thanks. So, I was born with severely damaged and dislocated hips.
(08:25):
My parents were told that I would never walk.
I did walk, but with a severe limp which led to this intense
shame and self-consciousness about that. And because of my hips and that
condition, I had to get x-rays every six months or annually up through
my teens. And around age 10, an x-ray technician sexually abused me.
(08:47):
And for almost 40 years, I never told a soul until the Larry
Nassar trial, when I became triggered by those young
gymnast testimonies, because of what happened to me, it was so similar to
their stories. And that's when I told my husband for the first time.
That's the first person I told. Then in junior high school,
(09:07):
a teacher began grooming me slowly over time by connecting with me through
music, which had always been my lifeline. It's like, it's all I cared
about. I dreamed of going to music school, so it was a really
big deal when he showed an interest in
me. And he nurtured that part of me. He encouraged my
talent. He praised my dedication, and he never seemed to notice or acknowledge
(09:29):
my limp, which I had always tried to hide.
He used music to build trust, to isolate me, and to ultimately exploit
me. And what began as a mentorship slowly unraveled into manipulation and
eventually into sexual abuse and rape. And sometimes the rapes happened
multiple times a day in bathrooms, practice rooms, closets,
(09:51):
classrooms, even in my own home. He used threats and physical violence and
the power of his authority. And he even befriended my
father, and he obviously told me that nobody would believe me because he
was a teacher and I was a student.
And he basically just said whatever he had to say to keep me
(10:12):
quiet. And it worked. I told no one. And this went on for
over a year, daily rapes, violence, and secrets, until I told my girl scout
leader because I feared for my younger sister's safety because she had started
in the same school and I was really worried for her safety around
him. And when I went to my girl scout leader, I was
(10:36):
lucky that she believed me. She immediately got guidance from a rape crisis
center, and then she helped me tell my parents who also believed and
supported me, which I'm lucky because that doesn't always happen.
And eventually I told the police. And after that, five other girls had
come forward because this teacher had molested them. And the state press
(10:57):
charges, and we went to a jury criminal trial, and my teacher was
found guilty and sentenced to 30 to 70 years in prison.
And I was left to pick up the pieces of my life after
that. And it affected me in so many ways,
way more than we have time to talk about.
But one way in which the abuse and the violence I experienced was
(11:20):
most damaging was my trust of healthcare professionals.
I was absolutely terrified to see doctors, especially gynecologists after
what I've been through. I avoided them until things became an emergency.
I couldn't imagine disclosing my abuse or getting undressed for an exam
or trusting someone while I was feeling vulnerable. And for years,
(11:42):
I was lucky only going to doctors when absolutely necessary without any
severe consequences until I got an abscess on my
spine and I tried to ignore the pain and the
fevers that went on for weeks until I eventually lost feeling in both
of my legs. And by the time I went to the hospital,
I was septic and I almost died. And this was all as a
(12:03):
result from avoiding because of that fear and that afraid of being vulnerable.
So I eventually, after I did, obviously survive and I have some permanent
nerve damage, but I was able to get through that.
I started working with a therapist about this and over time I
healed. Even though I still have to work with myself around going to
(12:25):
new doctors and things like that. But as I began learning about
trauma-informed healthcare, because in the hospital I learned a lot about
what it looks like and what it doesn't look like.
But I also, through therapy, discovered I wasn't alone in my fear.
A lot of survivors have this fear about being vulnerable and going to
(12:45):
doctors and it can be really triggering, especially for people with PTSD.
And that realization was actually the spark behind
starting the Trust Project. And while that work continued, my work in healing
and also the work of the Trust Project,
another chapter of my story resurfaced. Eventually, my former teacher came
up for parole, ex-teacher came up for parole. And it was a
(13:09):
really difficult decision, but I chose to testify in his parole
hearing. And I didn't know what the outcome would be.
I had enormous support from the Office of the Victim Advocate.
Thank you to all of you who helped. Thank you, Suzanne.
And I also placed my trust in the parole board
that they would make the right decision, whatever that was.
(13:31):
And I took the opportunity to share how my
rapist teacher's actions impacted nearly every part of my life. From living
with PTSD to struggling with trust, navigating healthcare, facing challenges
around having children, and so much more. He was denied parole twice.
(13:51):
And it's been a long journey, one marked by pain, but also by
growth and healing. But I'm grateful to be here, and I'm grateful to
be alive and to have found my voice, and now to be able
to use it to help others find theirs, hopefully. And if my story
can even offer just a small sense of hope or validation or understanding
(14:14):
to someone else, then speaking out has been worth it.
Thank you so much for sharing that, and I'm so sorry that you
had to go through that. I can't imagine.
Thank you, I appreciate it. So you had mentioned that
(14:37):
your abuser took advantage or was done during your music lessons.
And earlier when you introduced yourself, you had mentioned that you love
music. How did you reconcile those two things happening so that you could
still contain that passion for something that you really liked?
(14:57):
Thank you for asking that. Yeah, I think music was such an integral
part of me, and it's really how I coped with things.
It's how I just was able to feel. And I think I used
it as a healing and maybe sometimes as an escape, too.
(15:18):
When he was doing things to me, I would go home and I
would listen to music or I would play
music. Even though he was my band director and my music
teacher, so playing the flute was really kind of attached to that in
some way. I still was able to use it, to heal and to
get through that. And it continued. I did not go to music school.
(15:39):
That was one way where it did change things.
But I've still managed to keep that in my life. I still use
it as coping. I still use it as healing and connection and all
those things. So yeah, I guess I'm fortunate in some ways because it
could have poisoned that. But I didn't allow him to take... And I'm
(15:59):
grateful that I still have my music. Okay. You had mentioned that you'd
first spoken out briefly. I think it was PAAR, Pittsburgh Action Against
Rape? Yeah, Pittsburgh Action Against Rape. Yes. And you didn't share your
full story until later. How did you feel when you first
(16:24):
shared your full story? Well, I mean, I was obviously
nervous. I felt a vulnerability. It's never easy
to share. It's gotten easier over the years, but especially the first time.
But more than anything, I felt empowered. For the first time,
(16:48):
I wasn't holding it in or downplaying what happened to me.
I was just standing in my truth. And it finally felt like I
had a voice. It's interesting because I testified in the criminal
trial. And in my mind, I always thought that was an impact statement.
And then until I spoke to the parole board,
(17:11):
which wasn't that long ago, I realized that that wasn't an impact
statement. That was testifying in his trial. So the impact statement was
when I first had the chance to say, these are all the ways
that it impacted me. And I think speaking, just like Suzanne said,
about being seen, being heard, knowing that you have a voice,
it just gave me this moment of a sense of confidence that I
(17:35):
hadn't felt before. And it reminded me or maybe told me for the
first time that my story mattered. Okay. And I'm sure it was
nerve-wracking when you first did it. So what fears or hesitations did you
have before speaking out? And how did you work through them?
(17:59):
Well, yeah, I had a lot of fears, especially the first
time, I worried about traumatizing people because, it's difficult to talk
about sexual abuse and rape. And I never want to harm someone else
when I'm trying to help. I also worried about being blamed for being
raped, which may sound, I don't know, maybe it doesn't make sense.
(18:21):
But during the trial, especially there was a lot of
news coverage of this. And people were cruel. They were not
kind. There was a lot of blame. And it really affected me,
because during the trial, I was only 16. And some of this happened,
14, 15 years old. And there were people calling into radio stations saying
(18:42):
oh, these girls, they're lying, or they caused this to happen.
They're ruining this man. And it just devastated me for years.
So when the first time I told or spoke out, I thought,
oh, I wonder if this is going to happen
again. Which it didn't, thank goodness. And it just... I had to work
(19:05):
through that. And I was also, especially the first time, I was still
heavily involved in my own healing process, which I'm always healing.
So those fears just felt very real. And I also worried that people
wouldn't understand or worse, that it wouldn't have the impact that I had
hoped it would have. And there was also this added pressure of, I
felt like if you share a piece of your story, that people would
(19:27):
expect the whole story. And I wasn't ready to tell the whole story.
I could not talk about my difficulty with healthcare until
more recently, maybe within the last 10 years or so.
And what helped with that was talking with my husband, who is just
an amazing. I know I'm biased, but he's just an amazing
(19:50):
gentle man. And I'm fortunate that he was there for me,
but also with a therapist. And that support
grounded me and reminded me that I didn't owe anyone my entire story,
that I could share in a way that honored where I was in
my healing process. And I still try to do that today,
even though I can share more. Okay. I find it interesting how you
(20:15):
had a little bit of fear of inflicting some type of harm onto
somebody hearing your story. I feel like that's so innocent. That's so...
I feel like most people wouldn't think that. And that says a lot
about your character. I feel like, not to get sappy, but that's really
powerful to say. Yeah, thanks. Have you noticed any changes in yourself
(20:41):
emotionally, mentally, or spiritually since you started telling your story?
Absolutely, yes. It has changed me in profound ways.
I feel more empowered. I feel more confident. Spiritually, I feel more connected
to myself, to others, to God. I think sharing my story created a
(21:02):
space for meaning to emerge from something that once felt so chaotic and
incomprehensible. And it's given me hope and a deeper trust in the strength
of the human spirit, both mine and others. And that sense of
connection shows up in my day-to-day life and in my advocacy too.
And I really, you know, whether I'm speaking to a group of healthcare
(21:26):
providers or listening to a survivor share their own story, I carry this
deep belief that healing is contagious. And when one person stands in their
truth, it gives others permission to do the same.
And that certainly keeps me going as well. Okay. And how has sharing
(21:47):
your story affected your relationships with yourself, with others, or with
your sense of purpose? I think for myself, it's given me just
like a gentler voice, instead of that critical voice that's sometimes there.
The shame that I once carried has loosened its grip and in its
(22:10):
place, there's this growing sense of self-trust and grace, which I was not
used to. And with others, my relationships have
deepened because I've allowed myself to be more vulnerable, and that's created
stronger connections. And regarding my sense of purpose it didn't just appear,
it rose quietly and from the silence that I once held and lived
(22:34):
in every day. So sharing my story has lit and really continues to
light a path forward, and it's one line with meaning and connection
and with a steady and fierce belief that our voices can lead to
change. And you had mentioned that you were a little afraid of the
(22:55):
responses you would get. So I kind of want to ask,
what kind of responses have you received? Were you surprised by any of
them? Yes, I was surprised by many of them. They have been overwhelmingly
positive, and often deeply moving. When I've given keynotes, I
have gotten standing ovations. Well, usually always get a standing ovation,
(23:20):
and which honestly left me just stunned and humbled. I never expected that
kind of public affirmation, especially after what I'd gone through as a
teenager during the trial and everything. But what has impacted me even
more are the quiet personal disclosures and the amount of them as well.
I've never spoken anywhere, no matter what setting, without at least two
(23:43):
people coming up afterward to share their own stories with me.
Some they're working through, some it was in the past, and they just
wanted to share with me. One moment that really
stuck with me is I had done a workshop at a child maltreatment
conference, and after the workshop, a SANE nurse, so a sexual assault nurse
(24:06):
examiner, just sat there silent. And eventually she told me that for the
first time she realized she'd been avoiding medical care because of her
own history of sexual assault. And this is someone that is doing sexual
assault exams every day. And it was for children as well.
And that realization changed something in her. And so I felt really
(24:30):
honored to be part of that. And another moment that I'll never forget
is after I had done a take back the night speech,
a young man approached me and told me that he had been sexually
abusing someone for a long period of time. And he said he was
in treatment and he was trying to take
responsibility. But hearing my story was the first time that he understood
(24:53):
the impact that what he had done, what that had on a survivor.
And that conversation was heavy, but it reminds me of why I speak
out, because stories can reach people in ways that nothing else can.
So it was a really profound moment for me.
Yeah, I definitely can't imagine how that must have been.
(25:16):
That is definitely a surprise for that one. Didn't expect that. Yes.
Oh my goodness. Yeah. So I think you touched on this a little
bit before, but has telling your story helped you reclaim any part of
your power identity or voice? Yeah. I've learned to speak my truth.
(25:39):
I think I might've said that even when others try to shape it.
I once did a TV interview with an investigative
reporter. And after it was... After one of the major abuse trials,
I don't remember. It was like either Sandusky or Nassar. And he kept
trying to lead me toward answers that would serve his
story. And I didn't go along with it. And I stayed with what
(26:01):
was true for me, not what someone else wanted to hear.
And that moment really showed me how far
I'd come because I was able to advocate for myself and say,
no, this is not okay. This is my story, not what you want
me to say. And then just recently regarding this podcast, Suzanne called
and she reminded me that I don't have to answer anything that I'm
(26:23):
not comfortable with. And it was a powerful reminder for me that I
still get to set the boundaries and she was advocating for me as
a survivor. And that support and knowing I have the right to choose
just meant more than I can fully express. Thank you for that,
Suzanne. I just really appreciated that moment. So thank you. But yeah,
so those are just some of the ways
(26:45):
that has changed me. Okay. So what have you learned about yourself through
the process of speaking out? I'm sure there has to be something there.
Oh, yeah. So I'm in a writing class right now with a group
of amazing women writers. And one of them recently
(27:05):
called me a chingona, which is the Spanish word for badass.
I feel like I can say badass on this podcast, but it made
me laugh. And then I thought, you know what, I'm gonna go with
that because I'm still standing. I'm strong. I'm steady, and I'm like,
okay, yeah, maybe that's true. Maybe I've shown myself something in this
(27:26):
journey certainly has shown me that I can speak my truth with clarity
and courage. And I've learned that I'm capable of healing and growing and
holding space for both the pain that I have endured and the power
of who I've become. And perhaps most importantly, I've learned to see myself
with compassion, not just someone who survived, but someone who continues
(27:46):
to rise and continues to grow and continues to heal, which has been
really important. That's fantastic. And especially with you
writing, you're writing your memoir, right? Yeah, which has also been incredibly...
Yeah, it is. That's incredibly healing. Writing has been way more than I
realized it would be. Yeah. What would you say to another survivor who's
(28:09):
thinking about sharing their story, but is unsure or afraid?
Well, first of all, take your time. There is no
rush. There's no right way. Your story belongs to you, as we've talked
about. You get to decide when and how and
whom you share it with. And start where it feels safe,
even if it's just saying it out loud to yourself, because there's power
(28:31):
in that as well. And speaking can be empowering, but it's also vulnerable.
And that's why self-care matters so much. And self-care can be even as
something as simple as like planning something nice for yourself after you
speak. I try to do that when I speak because it can be
emotionally exhausting, especially if it's one of the early times, the first
times. But really, every time I've spoken, I need to do something nice
(28:53):
for myself. Also working with a therapist is so important.
I don't know if everybody has a therapist, or at least someone you
really trust. Someone who can help you feel grounded and supported,
especially when difficult emotions come up, because sometimes they
do. Sometimes you can't prepare for that. And then also know and maybe
(29:15):
prepare for the fact that people will respond in different ways.
Some may surprise you with compassion and others may not know how to
respond at all. And that doesn't define you. Those reactions don't define
you.Your story still takes courage to tell it. And don't do it alone.
Find a supportive community like Resilient Voices is a great
(29:37):
example. A supportive community of people who know what you're going through.
It makes all the difference to have that
support. And remember that your voice is powerful not because it's loud
or polished, but because it's yours. And when you're ready, your truth will
find its way out. Whatever it looks like, there are different ways to
be involved and to speak. Thank you so much.
(30:02):
Thank you. Now we're going to jump to Suzanne.
Beth had mentioned that you kind of always stayed in touch,
like before, during, and after. Especially after is what she touched on.
So I kind of want to ask, how do you support survivors before,
during, and after they share their stories? If you could touch on that
(30:23):
a little bit more. Sure. It's not always me personally, but we have
staff members on site. And now we have
even a victim expert speaker who is working as a consultant for us.
And before anyone is doing a Resilient Voices engagement, we kind of call
(30:43):
them beforehand to make sure they understand the platform, the audience
is going to be anything that they need,
that they're ready to share their story. We remind them
that it's their story and that they should be centered in the process,
that they have the right to say no to
(31:04):
questions. They have the right to say, no, they don't want to receive
questions, that they're just going to share a prepared statement, things
of that nature. So we just try to remind them about those empowerment
principles, make sure they're ready. And then after the event,
we try to check back in, whether it's a phone call or an
email, just to remind them about self-care, like how are you feeling after
(31:29):
this? And that's being a listening ear. Sometimes it's just listening to
what the speaker wants to say about how it made them feel or
what they felt. And sometimes that's it, not providing any advice or anything,
but just listening to what they have to say. And then sometimes it
is that gentle reminder about some self-care and building some resiliency
(31:49):
and moving forward. Okay. And what safeguards or
trauma-informed practices do you have in place to ensure survivors feel
safe and empowered to not just share their story, but to
get it right in their heads before they can share
(32:10):
it, if that makes sense? Sure. So becoming a part of the program,
we do a training. And Beth mentioned before, it's much shorter than it
used to be, and often is online now since COVID.
But we do a training about speaking, public speaking, kind of just some
of the basics around public speaking, and then
(32:34):
trauma-informed principles, kind of what they are and voice and choice and
what that means to a survivor speaker. Being empowered to
direct how you are sharing your story and what that looks like and
what that means. And then kind of actually some
actual sentences to put that in place when you need to and what
(32:56):
that looks like and just making sure that they're comfortable with that.
We talk about storytelling and what we hope to accomplish through storytelling
and how impactful storytelling can be. And then we actually give them an
opportunity to practice where we'll set a prompt,
a pretend audience, then they have a week to prepare something,
(33:17):
then we'll come back again for a follow-up where they'll actually then share
a story and we provide feedback and things like that. And that kind
of preparation is a way to be trauma-informed and to be prepared.
And we also let them know that you've got to be ready to
often sometimes expect the unexpected. We cannot control how people are
(33:39):
going to respond, what people think, but you do get to
maintain control over who you are and your story. Okay. How do you
help survivors navigate fears around judgment, backlash, or being retraumatized?
(34:02):
Again, we try to provide as much information
as we can as to how sometimes just because the nature of society
and the way we sit, that that can happen. We cannot control other
people's response. We can share what we know about victim blaming and things
of that nature so that the survivors feel a little bit more prepared.
(34:24):
But we try to really keep the focus on the
survivor. And if this doesn't fit for where you are in your healing
journey, don't do it. Say no. Pick a different type of
training, of speaking opportunity. For example, we have some survivors who
are comfortable speaking inside state correctional facilities at impact
(34:48):
of crime classes or at a victim awareness class.
We have other survivors who don't want to step foot inside an institution.
And we make sure that they do what works best for them.
We will describe what that feels like when you have to go into
the institution, what the security check is like, that whole leaving your
(35:10):
phone in the car. We tell them everything.
We have an advocate that would go with you the first time so
that you can see. And if in the description the person says,
hey, that is not for me, then we accept that and we move
on and we help them to find other avenues where it does work
for them. So we just try to always be victim centered and listen
(35:32):
to what the victim's needs are and be supportive of those needs.
Okay. The next question, I'm not sure if you can answer,
if you're allowed to answer. So if you can't, feel free to just
say pass. I won't take it personally. But could you share an example
of a moment where you saw a survivor deeply transform through the storytelling
(35:53):
process? Yeah, I won't give like any specific names or anything,
but I can say that we have a YouTube channel, OVA has a
YouTube channel that has a lot of survivor stories on there.
And some of those are times when we've been able to actually
have like grant funding where we can pay survivor speakers to be a
(36:16):
part of a training program or something like that. And in those times,
we have seen people feel like this storytelling was so beneficial for them
where they see that feedback kind of from like a large
audience of people in the profession that seems to be really moving and
(36:36):
impactful. So we did some work on childhood exploitation
and trying to create awareness for parents and
caregivers. And we use survivor stories through like a video projects.
And that was just so impactful and survivors seem to be really moved
by the fact that they were able to participate in that,
(36:59):
that people wanted to hear that and that people felt that that was
important enough for the people who are the professionals to know and understand
and that they were going to use that to move forward in providing
better services for crime victims. Okay. Could you actually send me the
(37:20):
link of the YouTube channel and we could include it in the show
notes if you want? Yeah, sure. We can do that. Okay,
perfect. What do you wish more people understood about the courage it takes
for a survivor to speak out? I wish that people could really understand
(37:40):
the people element. I think sometimes we can get so bombarded with bad
news, bad actors, and now like real crime TV shows
that we lose the empathy for the fact that these are real people.
(38:02):
Like just because someone's story is told on a TV show,
it's not a celebrity. These are real people.
And for someone to expose what was often the worst moments
of their life, trying to receive justice or for whatever benefit
(38:27):
that they may perceive or whatever reason they were required to share that
story, I don't think that we often recognize what a benefit that is
to us, like to us as professionals, to us as community members.
To be able to receive this truth so that we can be better
(38:49):
people is invaluable. So I wish that people kind of understood that a
little bit more, that this is for all of our benefit so that
we can be better people that are brothers and sisters, better community
members, more enlightened and aware of what's happening around us so that
we can actually make changes to the way that we live together.
(39:16):
So that's kind of what I want people to
understand. And unfortunately, sometimes it's not until it is you or your
family member that people kind of take that deep dive
to kind of somewhat make it personal. And I think that
that's hurting us and not helping us. So
my hope would be that people would hear the story and look
(39:40):
for, now what is my personal responsibility now that I've heard this
story? And understand in that frame work. Yeah, that makes a lot of
sense because I feel like when you see somebody on TV or on
social media, it's easy to strip them of their humanity almost.
So I think remembering that they are a person
(40:02):
is very impactful. So in what ways do you work to amplify stories
without sensationalizing or exploiting trauma? I really try to be intentional
about leaving that as the survivor's choice. Like I don't get up at
(40:23):
events or anything and retell somebody else's story.
I often go the extra mile, even if it's like, you know,
I heard somebody say something and I want to quote them,
I will ask them. I have to speak at such and such, may I have
your permission to quote when you said and see what they say.
(40:45):
So always making it the survivor's choice. I mean, I have permission to
tell my story, but I don't have like blanket
permissions to retell everyone's story because they're a part of Resilient
Voices. So we try to be very intentional about
that. And I think that that is a way to honor people and
(41:07):
to respect the individuals that choose to participate in the program.
Okay. And so the next one, Beth experienced a little bit with the
media. So maybe you could shed some light on it. How can people,
especially those in the media or leadership, be more responsible and ethical
(41:28):
when inviting survivors to share their stories? That one can be a bit
of a challenge. I think that if the media could be
honest about their purpose and what their goals are, that way up front,
the survivor has the opportunity to decide whether or not they want to
be a part of that. Because sometimes the survivors, and we have like
(41:52):
a whole another section to our training workbook that we give people to
read in case they decide like beyond Resilient Voices, they want to be
a part of media sharing and media storytelling,
that that's totally different. And what you need to look for and be
ready for in that realm is quite a bit different when you might
(42:14):
tell the story one way and then they're going to cut and
slice. And when you see it, you might not even recognize it as
what you said. So we do provide information
so that survivors know that that's quite a bit different than being a
part of Resilient Voices. But I think generally people are becoming much
(42:34):
more informed about trauma and trauma informed principles. So I think if
people in the media can take that knowledge and just make sure that
they're being honest with survivors, that they're actually listening to
what the survivors are saying, that that would be super helpful.
Okay. And then what's your vision for the future of survivor storytelling
(42:57):
and the cultural change it can create? I think that storytelling is a
fabulous tool for culture change. And at this place that we are in
our society, I think that we need it, we desperately need it.
And like I said, I think it's almost while social media is great,
(43:19):
has done lots of positive things. In some ways, I think people have
become a little desensitized to harms and wrongdoing. So that's kind of
the tough thing that we're up against. For example, I'm always saying,
like, how is it possible that people are not outraged about child porn?
(43:41):
But you hear statistics about, oh, this is a billion dollar industry and
this... But you seldom hear this out now outrage. And to me,
I feel like everybody should be outraged that this is something that happens.
So I'm hoping that storytelling will help to create
some of that outrage and to change the dynamics and the community structure
(44:08):
that we will have an intolerance for evil, that there's some things that
are just not acceptable. And make that the norm. Like, nobody should feel
comfortable with this announcement that people are making billions of dollars
off of child pornography. And I know that's just one
harm. But because the dollar amount is always touted, it just needs,
(44:32):
yeah, there should be outrage. Anytime somebody is making that statement,
there should be community outrage about what are we going to do to
stop this? Because this should not be happening to children. So I'm hoping
that storytelling will continue to be impactful in changing those dynamics
as what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Okay. That really brings
(44:55):
it all full circle from a previous question where you had mentioned that
speakers need to be seen as human. So I kind of see like
you brought it all the way back home and that was beautiful.
So that is all the questions we have. Suzanne, is there anything that
(45:15):
you want to touch on before we stop?
Anything that I never asked you that's just you're dying to
say? No, I just want to give a big shout out to Beth.
Thank you so much for coming and sharing your story.
It is super impactful. And even though this is not the first time
I've heard it, it still just impacts me in such a positive way.
(45:37):
And I think that is important for all survivors to understand how much
as professionals we learn from survivor stories and how much it helps us
to do our work even better. So we're all so
connected. And if we use that connectivity, I think we can continue to
(45:58):
collaborate and do what needs to be done to create safer,
caring communities where justice thrives. Thank you, Suzanne. And thank
you for all that you do for survivors. I mean,
and continuing Resilient Voices, it's such a powerful,
like you said, way to heal and change the culture. Thank you. And
(46:22):
Beth, is there anything that I didn't get a chance to ask you
or anything that you want to leave a note on?
No, just I thank you for the invitation to be here and
I appreciated that. Well, thank you both so much for taking time out
of your busy schedules. This has been very rewarding
(46:44):
to sit here and listen, and just be able
to sift through it a little bit more,
if that makes sense. Yes. So thank you all so much.
Any views or opinions expressed on PA Centered by staff or their guests
(47:07):
are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of PCAR
or PCAR's funders.
Welcome to PA Centered, a podcast designed to help listeners be a part
of the solution to end sexual harassment, abuse, and assault. Each episode,
we will take on a topic or current event to help spark conversation
and break down barriers to building communities free from sexual violence.
(00:32):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the PA Centered podcast hosted by the
Pennsylvania Coalition to Advance Respect, or PCAR. My name is Cody Henry.
I am the communications and policy specialist at PCAR, and I will be
your host for today's episode. Now, today's episode is trying something
a little different. We've invited Suzanne Estrella, Commonwealth
(00:53):
victim advocate at the Office of Victim Advocate, and Beth Dougherty,
a sexual assault survivor. Beth will be sharing her story with us,
and then we will jump into some questions about the process of her
speaking about what happened and how she found the strength to do so.
Finally, we will jump over to Susan with the Office of Victim Advocate
to get some background on preparing speakers like Beth with sharing their
(01:14):
stories to the public. Now, this episode will discuss details of sexual
assault. If that makes you uncomfortable, you may want to skip this episode.
So let's begin. Beth, can you tell us a little bit about who
you are outside of your experience as a survivor? Yes, thanks for asking.
Thanks for the invitation to be on the podcast. It's really,
(01:35):
an honor to be here with the two of you.
So while being a survivor has shaped who I am, it really doesn't
define me. It's part of my story, but it's not the whole story.
I haven't separated it from my life. It kind of shows up in
my work and what I care about and how I move through the
world. But I'm also a chemist, a musician, a writer, and I'm a
(01:56):
passionate advocate for trauma-informed care. And while the advocacy is
personal, it also comes from a larger desire to change,
create change in the world. And I carry what I've been through with
me, but it kind of walks alongside the other parts of who I
am. And music is a huge part of my life.
I've played in a symphony, I play flute in the symphony orchestra for
(02:18):
like 30 some years. I sing and play guitar in a rock band.
I lead a contemporary group at my church.
Music has always been a constant in my life. It's creative,
collaborative, and grounding for me. And I'm also currently working on writing
a memoir. And I recently had an essay accepted in the HuffPost about
(02:38):
why trauma-informed care is so essential. And it should be out soon.
And I serve as principal of the Trust Project.
It's a research and outreach initiative that educates medical professionals
and students on how trauma impacts health and
well-being. And through this work, I lead workshops and
trainings for organizations who are seeking to adopt a
(03:00):
trauma-informed approach. And I lecture at universities, medical centers,
conferences, public events across the country. And I'm an active member
of Heal PA, which is in their physical behavioral action team.
And it's an initiative working to implement trauma-informed practices across
Pennsylvania. And then on a more personal note,
(03:22):
my husband and I are about to celebrate our 26th wedding anniversary.
And we share a love for the outdoors, spend as much time as
we can camping and hiking and paddling across the United States,
especially in our beautiful PA state parks. And about 12 years ago,
we also discovered competitive ballroom dancing, which has brought us to
(03:46):
this even closer connection and just has brought this new dimension to our
lives. So just grateful to be here. Okay, awesome. Well,
happy soon to be anniversary then. Yeah, thanks.
Competitive ballroom dancing sounds very interesting. It's been such a journey,
(04:06):
an incredible journey. All right. So what led to wanting to share your
story publicly? Well, I think it was in 2006,
I was asked to be on, it was called a Panel of Hope
at Pittsburgh Action Against Rape as part of their
(04:27):
survivors information support series. And while... I only shared just a
small part of my story, including a little bit of my healing journey,
but even that small step turned out to be incredibly healing for me
and powerful and not just for me, but for the survivors in the
room. And I remember feeling something shift at that point. While it was
(04:49):
healing, it seemed to make a difference to others. So in that moment,
I felt this kind of freedom that I wasn't used to. And I realized
that by speaking up, I was actually giving back. And I think it
was the first time I truly understood that everything I had been through
had meaning and it wasn't all for nothing.
And after speaking that small panel, I was invited to be the keynote
(05:11):
at Pittsburgh Action Against Rape and then also at PCAR. And those experiences
really changed something in me. And it felt so freeing, like reclaiming
part of my life because I had been
almost just like forced to disconnect from it. So often survivors
separate from their own bodies and from their emotions and even from other
people to survive. But when I spoke out, it kind of sounds strange,
(05:36):
but I felt whole again, you know, reconnected almost.
And more than that, I realized I could use my voice to change
the many harmful myths that still surround rape and child sexual abuse.
And then I joined the Pennsylvania Commission of Crime and Delinquency
Speakers Bureau, which now is Resilient Voices, which I know Suzanne is
(05:59):
in charge of. And our training was held over an entire weekend.
And at the end, all of us, there were like seven of us
there, shared our stories to those in the room and to our family
members who had attended with us. And that was so powerful.
And it's really what keeps me speaking today. I think about that experience,
I'm so thankful for that experience and thankful for Resilient Voices too.
(06:26):
Okay. Now I'm going to jump to Suzanne real quick. Can you tell
us about Resilient Voices and what led to its creation?
Sure. Thank you so much for having me today. Resilient Voices is a
volunteer crime survivor speaker program that elevates crime survivor voices
by providing opportunities to impact others through storytelling.
(06:51):
The Office of Victim Advocate actually inherited the program from PCCD,
as Beth mentioned, and that was several years before my time here.
But we're happy to be able to facilitate the program and to see
it grow and expand. Okay. And Suzanne, why is storytelling such a powerful
(07:14):
tool in the healing process for survivors? I think it's important because
when you just think about life in general and how important it is
to feel like people see you and people understand you. So storytelling is
that opportunity for the survivor to be seen and to be heard on
(07:35):
their terms. And so I think that's why it's so impactful.
Okay, then. Yeah, I feel like storytelling has been around since humans
began speaking almost. Like there has to be something special to it.
Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Beth, we're going to jump back to you.
And so now we're going to open it up for you to share
(07:59):
your story. You can take as much time as you want.
If you need to pause, that's completely fine. Totally understand.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable, we're going to go on
mute. And yeah, it'll be completely up to you. Okay? Okay,
thanks, Cody. I appreciate that. No problem. The floor is all yours.
Okay, thanks. So, I was born with severely damaged and dislocated hips.
(08:25):
My parents were told that I would never walk.
I did walk, but with a severe limp which led to this intense
shame and self-consciousness about that. And because of my hips and that
condition, I had to get x-rays every six months or annually up through
my teens. And around age 10, an x-ray technician sexually abused me.
(08:47):
And for almost 40 years, I never told a soul until the Larry
Nassar trial, when I became triggered by those young
gymnast testimonies, because of what happened to me, it was so similar to
their stories. And that's when I told my husband for the first time.
That's the first person I told. Then in junior high school,
(09:07):
a teacher began grooming me slowly over time by connecting with me through
music, which had always been my lifeline. It's like, it's all I cared
about. I dreamed of going to music school, so it was a really
big deal when he showed an interest in
me. And he nurtured that part of me. He encouraged my
talent. He praised my dedication, and he never seemed to notice or acknowledge
(09:29):
my limp, which I had always tried to hide.
He used music to build trust, to isolate me, and to ultimately exploit
me. And what began as a mentorship slowly unraveled into manipulation and
eventually into sexual abuse and rape. And sometimes the rapes happened
multiple times a day in bathrooms, practice rooms, closets,
(09:51):
classrooms, even in my own home. He used threats and physical violence and
the power of his authority. And he even befriended my
father, and he obviously told me that nobody would believe me because he
was a teacher and I was a student.
And he basically just said whatever he had to say to keep me
(10:12):
quiet. And it worked. I told no one. And this went on for
over a year, daily rapes, violence, and secrets, until I told my girl scout
leader because I feared for my younger sister's safety because she had started
in the same school and I was really worried for her safety around
him. And when I went to my girl scout leader, I was
(10:36):
lucky that she believed me. She immediately got guidance from a rape crisis
center, and then she helped me tell my parents who also believed and
supported me, which I'm lucky because that doesn't always happen.
And eventually I told the police. And after that, five other girls had
come forward because this teacher had molested them. And the state press
(10:57):
charges, and we went to a jury criminal trial, and my teacher was
found guilty and sentenced to 30 to 70 years in prison.
And I was left to pick up the pieces of my life after
that. And it affected me in so many ways,
way more than we have time to talk about.
But one way in which the abuse and the violence I experienced was
(11:20):
most damaging was my trust of healthcare professionals.
I was absolutely terrified to see doctors, especially gynecologists after
what I've been through. I avoided them until things became an emergency.
I couldn't imagine disclosing my abuse or getting undressed for an exam
or trusting someone while I was feeling vulnerable. And for years,
(11:42):
I was lucky only going to doctors when absolutely necessary without any
severe consequences until I got an abscess on my
spine and I tried to ignore the pain and the
fevers that went on for weeks until I eventually lost feeling in both
of my legs. And by the time I went to the hospital,
I was septic and I almost died. And this was all as a
(12:03):
result from avoiding because of that fear and that afraid of being vulnerable.
So I eventually, after I did, obviously survive and I have some permanent
nerve damage, but I was able to get through that.
I started working with a therapist about this and over time I
healed. Even though I still have to work with myself around going to
(12:25):
new doctors and things like that. But as I began learning about
trauma-informed healthcare, because in the hospital I learned a lot about
what it looks like and what it doesn't look like.
But I also, through therapy, discovered I wasn't alone in my fear.
A lot of survivors have this fear about being vulnerable and going to
(12:45):
doctors and it can be really triggering, especially for people with PTSD.
And that realization was actually the spark behind
starting the Trust Project. And while that work continued, my work in healing
and also the work of the Trust Project,
another chapter of my story resurfaced. Eventually, my former teacher came
up for parole, ex-teacher came up for parole. And it was a
(13:09):
really difficult decision, but I chose to testify in his parole
hearing. And I didn't know what the outcome would be.
I had enormous support from the Office of the Victim Advocate.
Thank you to all of you who helped. Thank you, Suzanne.
And I also placed my trust in the parole board
that they would make the right decision, whatever that was.
(13:31):
And I took the opportunity to share how my
rapist teacher's actions impacted nearly every part of my life. From living
with PTSD to struggling with trust, navigating healthcare, facing challenges
around having children, and so much more. He was denied parole twice.
(13:51):
And it's been a long journey, one marked by pain, but also by
growth and healing. But I'm grateful to be here, and I'm grateful to
be alive and to have found my voice, and now to be able
to use it to help others find theirs, hopefully. And if my story
can even offer just a small sense of hope or validation or understanding
(14:14):
to someone else, then speaking out has been worth it.
Thank you so much for sharing that, and I'm so sorry that you
had to go through that. I can't imagine.
Thank you, I appreciate it. So you had mentioned that
(14:37):
your abuser took advantage or was done during your music lessons.
And earlier when you introduced yourself, you had mentioned that you love
music. How did you reconcile those two things happening so that you could
still contain that passion for something that you really liked?
(14:57):
Thank you for asking that. Yeah, I think music was such an integral
part of me, and it's really how I coped with things.
It's how I just was able to feel. And I think I used
it as a healing and maybe sometimes as an escape, too.
(15:18):
When he was doing things to me, I would go home and I
would listen to music or I would play
music. Even though he was my band director and my music
teacher, so playing the flute was really kind of attached to that in
some way. I still was able to use it, to heal and to
get through that. And it continued. I did not go to music school.
(15:39):
That was one way where it did change things.
But I've still managed to keep that in my life. I still use
it as coping. I still use it as healing and connection and all
those things. So yeah, I guess I'm fortunate in some ways because it
could have poisoned that. But I didn't allow him to take... And I'm
(15:59):
grateful that I still have my music. Okay. You had mentioned that you'd
first spoken out briefly. I think it was PAAR, Pittsburgh Action Against
Rape? Yeah, Pittsburgh Action Against Rape. Yes. And you didn't share your
full story until later. How did you feel when you first
(16:24):
shared your full story? Well, I mean, I was obviously
nervous. I felt a vulnerability. It's never easy
to share. It's gotten easier over the years, but especially the first time.
But more than anything, I felt empowered. For the first time,
(16:48):
I wasn't holding it in or downplaying what happened to me.
I was just standing in my truth. And it finally felt like I
had a voice. It's interesting because I testified in the criminal
trial. And in my mind, I always thought that was an impact statement.
And then until I spoke to the parole board,
(17:11):
which wasn't that long ago, I realized that that wasn't an impact
statement. That was testifying in his trial. So the impact statement was
when I first had the chance to say, these are all the ways
that it impacted me. And I think speaking, just like Suzanne said,
about being seen, being heard, knowing that you have a voice,
it just gave me this moment of a sense of confidence that I
(17:35):
hadn't felt before. And it reminded me or maybe told me for the
first time that my story mattered. Okay. And I'm sure it was
nerve-wracking when you first did it. So what fears or hesitations did you
have before speaking out? And how did you work through them?
(17:59):
Well, yeah, I had a lot of fears, especially the first
time, I worried about traumatizing people because, it's difficult to talk
about sexual abuse and rape. And I never want to harm someone else
when I'm trying to help. I also worried about being blamed for being
raped, which may sound, I don't know, maybe it doesn't make sense.
(18:21):
But during the trial, especially there was a lot of
news coverage of this. And people were cruel. They were not
kind. There was a lot of blame. And it really affected me,
because during the trial, I was only 16. And some of this happened,
14, 15 years old. And there were people calling into radio stations saying
(18:42):
oh, these girls, they're lying, or they caused this to happen.
They're ruining this man. And it just devastated me for years.
So when the first time I told or spoke out, I thought,
oh, I wonder if this is going to happen
again. Which it didn't, thank goodness. And it just... I had to work
(19:05):
through that. And I was also, especially the first time, I was still
heavily involved in my own healing process, which I'm always healing.
So those fears just felt very real. And I also worried that people
wouldn't understand or worse, that it wouldn't have the impact that I had
hoped it would have. And there was also this added pressure of, I
felt like if you share a piece of your story, that people would
(19:27):
expect the whole story. And I wasn't ready to tell the whole story.
I could not talk about my difficulty with healthcare until
more recently, maybe within the last 10 years or so.
And what helped with that was talking with my husband, who is just
an amazing. I know I'm biased, but he's just an amazing
(19:50):
gentle man. And I'm fortunate that he was there for me,
but also with a therapist. And that support
grounded me and reminded me that I didn't owe anyone my entire story,
that I could share in a way that honored where I was in
my healing process. And I still try to do that today,
even though I can share more. Okay. I find it interesting how you
(20:15):
had a little bit of fear of inflicting some type of harm onto
somebody hearing your story. I feel like that's so innocent. That's so...
I feel like most people wouldn't think that. And that says a lot
about your character. I feel like, not to get sappy, but that's really
powerful to say. Yeah, thanks. Have you noticed any changes in yourself
(20:41):
emotionally, mentally, or spiritually since you started telling your story?
Absolutely, yes. It has changed me in profound ways.
I feel more empowered. I feel more confident. Spiritually, I feel more connected
to myself, to others, to God. I think sharing my story created a
(21:02):
space for meaning to emerge from something that once felt so chaotic and
incomprehensible. And it's given me hope and a deeper trust in the strength
of the human spirit, both mine and others. And that sense of
connection shows up in my day-to-day life and in my advocacy too.
And I really, you know, whether I'm speaking to a group of healthcare
(21:26):
providers or listening to a survivor share their own story, I carry this
deep belief that healing is contagious. And when one person stands in their
truth, it gives others permission to do the same.
And that certainly keeps me going as well. Okay. And how has sharing
(21:47):
your story affected your relationships with yourself, with others, or with
your sense of purpose? I think for myself, it's given me just
like a gentler voice, instead of that critical voice that's sometimes there.
The shame that I once carried has loosened its grip and in its
(22:10):
place, there's this growing sense of self-trust and grace, which I was not
used to. And with others, my relationships have
deepened because I've allowed myself to be more vulnerable, and that's created
stronger connections. And regarding my sense of purpose it didn't just appear,
it rose quietly and from the silence that I once held and lived
(22:34):
in every day. So sharing my story has lit and really continues to
light a path forward, and it's one line with meaning and connection
and with a steady and fierce belief that our voices can lead to
change. And you had mentioned that you were a little afraid of the
(22:55):
responses you would get. So I kind of want to ask,
what kind of responses have you received? Were you surprised by any of
them? Yes, I was surprised by many of them. They have been overwhelmingly
positive, and often deeply moving. When I've given keynotes, I
have gotten standing ovations. Well, usually always get a standing ovation,
(23:20):
and which honestly left me just stunned and humbled. I never expected that
kind of public affirmation, especially after what I'd gone through as a
teenager during the trial and everything. But what has impacted me even
more are the quiet personal disclosures and the amount of them as well.
I've never spoken anywhere, no matter what setting, without at least two
(23:43):
people coming up afterward to share their own stories with me.
Some they're working through, some it was in the past, and they just
wanted to share with me. One moment that really
stuck with me is I had done a workshop at a child maltreatment
conference, and after the workshop, a SANE nurse, so a sexual assault nurse
(24:06):
examiner, just sat there silent. And eventually she told me that for the
first time she realized she'd been avoiding medical care because of her
own history of sexual assault. And this is someone that is doing sexual
assault exams every day. And it was for children as well.
And that realization changed something in her. And so I felt really
(24:30):
honored to be part of that. And another moment that I'll never forget
is after I had done a take back the night speech,
a young man approached me and told me that he had been sexually
abusing someone for a long period of time. And he said he was
in treatment and he was trying to take
responsibility. But hearing my story was the first time that he understood
(24:53):
the impact that what he had done, what that had on a survivor.
And that conversation was heavy, but it reminds me of why I speak
out, because stories can reach people in ways that nothing else can.
So it was a really profound moment for me.
Yeah, I definitely can't imagine how that must have been.
(25:16):
That is definitely a surprise for that one. Didn't expect that. Yes.
Oh my goodness. Yeah. So I think you touched on this a little
bit before, but has telling your story helped you reclaim any part of
your power identity or voice? Yeah. I've learned to speak my truth.
(25:39):
I think I might've said that even when others try to shape it.
I once did a TV interview with an investigative
reporter. And after it was... After one of the major abuse trials,
I don't remember. It was like either Sandusky or Nassar. And he kept
trying to lead me toward answers that would serve his
story. And I didn't go along with it. And I stayed with what
(26:01):
was true for me, not what someone else wanted to hear.
And that moment really showed me how far
I'd come because I was able to advocate for myself and say,
no, this is not okay. This is my story, not what you want
me to say. And then just recently regarding this podcast, Suzanne called
and she reminded me that I don't have to answer anything that I'm
(26:23):
not comfortable with. And it was a powerful reminder for me that I
still get to set the boundaries and she was advocating for me as
a survivor. And that support and knowing I have the right to choose
just meant more than I can fully express. Thank you for that,
Suzanne. I just really appreciated that moment. So thank you. But yeah,
so those are just some of the ways
(26:45):
that has changed me. Okay. So what have you learned about yourself through
the process of speaking out? I'm sure there has to be something there.
Oh, yeah. So I'm in a writing class right now with a group
of amazing women writers. And one of them recently
(27:05):
called me a chingona, which is the Spanish word for badass.
I feel like I can say badass on this podcast, but it made
me laugh. And then I thought, you know what, I'm gonna go with
that because I'm still standing. I'm strong. I'm steady, and I'm like,
okay, yeah, maybe that's true. Maybe I've shown myself something in this
(27:26):
journey certainly has shown me that I can speak my truth with clarity
and courage. And I've learned that I'm capable of healing and growing and
holding space for both the pain that I have endured and the power
of who I've become. And perhaps most importantly, I've learned to see myself
with compassion, not just someone who survived, but someone who continues
(27:46):
to rise and continues to grow and continues to heal, which has been
really important. That's fantastic. And especially with you
writing, you're writing your memoir, right? Yeah, which has also been incredibly...
Yeah, it is. That's incredibly healing. Writing has been way more than I
realized it would be. Yeah. What would you say to another survivor who's
(28:09):
thinking about sharing their story, but is unsure or afraid?
Well, first of all, take your time. There is no
rush. There's no right way. Your story belongs to you, as we've talked
about. You get to decide when and how and
whom you share it with. And start where it feels safe,
even if it's just saying it out loud to yourself, because there's power
(28:31):
in that as well. And speaking can be empowering, but it's also vulnerable.
And that's why self-care matters so much. And self-care can be even as
something as simple as like planning something nice for yourself after you
speak. I try to do that when I speak because it can be
emotionally exhausting, especially if it's one of the early times, the first
times. But really, every time I've spoken, I need to do something nice
(28:53):
for myself. Also working with a therapist is so important.
I don't know if everybody has a therapist, or at least someone you
really trust. Someone who can help you feel grounded and supported,
especially when difficult emotions come up, because sometimes they
do. Sometimes you can't prepare for that. And then also know and maybe
(29:15):
prepare for the fact that people will respond in different ways.
Some may surprise you with compassion and others may not know how to
respond at all. And that doesn't define you. Those reactions don't define
you.Your story still takes courage to tell it. And don't do it alone.
Find a supportive community like Resilient Voices is a great
(29:37):
example. A supportive community of people who know what you're going through.
It makes all the difference to have that
support. And remember that your voice is powerful not because it's loud
or polished, but because it's yours. And when you're ready, your truth will
find its way out. Whatever it looks like, there are different ways to
be involved and to speak. Thank you so much.
(30:02):
Thank you. Now we're going to jump to Suzanne.
Beth had mentioned that you kind of always stayed in touch,
like before, during, and after. Especially after is what she touched on.
So I kind of want to ask, how do you support survivors before,
during, and after they share their stories? If you could touch on that
(30:23):
a little bit more. Sure. It's not always me personally, but we have
staff members on site. And now we have
even a victim expert speaker who is working as a consultant for us.
And before anyone is doing a Resilient Voices engagement, we kind of call
(30:43):
them beforehand to make sure they understand the platform, the audience
is going to be anything that they need,
that they're ready to share their story. We remind them
that it's their story and that they should be centered in the process,
that they have the right to say no to
(31:04):
questions. They have the right to say, no, they don't want to receive
questions, that they're just going to share a prepared statement, things
of that nature. So we just try to remind them about those empowerment
principles, make sure they're ready. And then after the event,
we try to check back in, whether it's a phone call or an
email, just to remind them about self-care, like how are you feeling after
(31:29):
this? And that's being a listening ear. Sometimes it's just listening to
what the speaker wants to say about how it made them feel or
what they felt. And sometimes that's it, not providing any advice or anything,
but just listening to what they have to say. And then sometimes it
is that gentle reminder about some self-care and building some resiliency
(31:49):
and moving forward. Okay. And what safeguards or
trauma-informed practices do you have in place to ensure survivors feel
safe and empowered to not just share their story, but to
get it right in their heads before they can share
(32:10):
it, if that makes sense? Sure. So becoming a part of the program,
we do a training. And Beth mentioned before, it's much shorter than it
used to be, and often is online now since COVID.
But we do a training about speaking, public speaking, kind of just some
of the basics around public speaking, and then
(32:34):
trauma-informed principles, kind of what they are and voice and choice and
what that means to a survivor speaker. Being empowered to
direct how you are sharing your story and what that looks like and
what that means. And then kind of actually some
actual sentences to put that in place when you need to and what
(32:56):
that looks like and just making sure that they're comfortable with that.
We talk about storytelling and what we hope to accomplish through storytelling
and how impactful storytelling can be. And then we actually give them an
opportunity to practice where we'll set a prompt,
a pretend audience, then they have a week to prepare something,
(33:17):
then we'll come back again for a follow-up where they'll actually then share
a story and we provide feedback and things like that. And that kind
of preparation is a way to be trauma-informed and to be prepared.
And we also let them know that you've got to be ready to
often sometimes expect the unexpected. We cannot control how people are
(33:39):
going to respond, what people think, but you do get to
maintain control over who you are and your story. Okay. How do you
help survivors navigate fears around judgment, backlash, or being retraumatized?
(34:02):
Again, we try to provide as much information
as we can as to how sometimes just because the nature of society
and the way we sit, that that can happen. We cannot control other
people's response. We can share what we know about victim blaming and things
of that nature so that the survivors feel a little bit more prepared.
(34:24):
But we try to really keep the focus on the
survivor. And if this doesn't fit for where you are in your healing
journey, don't do it. Say no. Pick a different type of
training, of speaking opportunity. For example, we have some survivors who
are comfortable speaking inside state correctional facilities at impact
(34:48):
of crime classes or at a victim awareness class.
We have other survivors who don't want to step foot inside an institution.
And we make sure that they do what works best for them.
We will describe what that feels like when you have to go into
the institution, what the security check is like, that whole leaving your
(35:10):
phone in the car. We tell them everything.
We have an advocate that would go with you the first time so
that you can see. And if in the description the person says,
hey, that is not for me, then we accept that and we move
on and we help them to find other avenues where it does work
for them. So we just try to always be victim centered and listen
(35:32):
to what the victim's needs are and be supportive of those needs.
Okay. The next question, I'm not sure if you can answer,
if you're allowed to answer. So if you can't, feel free to just
say pass. I won't take it personally. But could you share an example
of a moment where you saw a survivor deeply transform through the storytelling
(35:53):
process? Yeah, I won't give like any specific names or anything,
but I can say that we have a YouTube channel, OVA has a
YouTube channel that has a lot of survivor stories on there.
And some of those are times when we've been able to actually
have like grant funding where we can pay survivor speakers to be a
(36:16):
part of a training program or something like that. And in those times,
we have seen people feel like this storytelling was so beneficial for them
where they see that feedback kind of from like a large
audience of people in the profession that seems to be really moving and
(36:36):
impactful. So we did some work on childhood exploitation
and trying to create awareness for parents and
caregivers. And we use survivor stories through like a video projects.
And that was just so impactful and survivors seem to be really moved
by the fact that they were able to participate in that,
(36:59):
that people wanted to hear that and that people felt that that was
important enough for the people who are the professionals to know and understand
and that they were going to use that to move forward in providing
better services for crime victims. Okay. Could you actually send me the
(37:20):
link of the YouTube channel and we could include it in the show
notes if you want? Yeah, sure. We can do that. Okay,
perfect. What do you wish more people understood about the courage it takes
for a survivor to speak out? I wish that people could really understand
(37:40):
the people element. I think sometimes we can get so bombarded with bad
news, bad actors, and now like real crime TV shows
that we lose the empathy for the fact that these are real people.
(38:02):
Like just because someone's story is told on a TV show,
it's not a celebrity. These are real people.
And for someone to expose what was often the worst moments
of their life, trying to receive justice or for whatever benefit
(38:27):
that they may perceive or whatever reason they were required to share that
story, I don't think that we often recognize what a benefit that is
to us, like to us as professionals, to us as community members.
To be able to receive this truth so that we can be better
(38:49):
people is invaluable. So I wish that people kind of understood that a
little bit more, that this is for all of our benefit so that
we can be better people that are brothers and sisters, better community
members, more enlightened and aware of what's happening around us so that
we can actually make changes to the way that we live together.
(39:16):
So that's kind of what I want people to
understand. And unfortunately, sometimes it's not until it is you or your
family member that people kind of take that deep dive
to kind of somewhat make it personal. And I think that
that's hurting us and not helping us. So
my hope would be that people would hear the story and look
(39:40):
for, now what is my personal responsibility now that I've heard this
story? And understand in that frame work. Yeah, that makes a lot of
sense because I feel like when you see somebody on TV or on
social media, it's easy to strip them of their humanity almost.
So I think remembering that they are a person
(40:02):
is very impactful. So in what ways do you work to amplify stories
without sensationalizing or exploiting trauma? I really try to be intentional
about leaving that as the survivor's choice. Like I don't get up at
(40:23):
events or anything and retell somebody else's story.
I often go the extra mile, even if it's like, you know,
I heard somebody say something and I want to quote them,
I will ask them. I have to speak at such and such, may I have
your permission to quote when you said and see what they say.
(40:45):
So always making it the survivor's choice. I mean, I have permission to
tell my story, but I don't have like blanket
permissions to retell everyone's story because they're a part of Resilient
Voices. So we try to be very intentional about
that. And I think that that is a way to honor people and
(41:07):
to respect the individuals that choose to participate in the program.
Okay. And so the next one, Beth experienced a little bit with the
media. So maybe you could shed some light on it. How can people,
especially those in the media or leadership, be more responsible and ethical
(41:28):
when inviting survivors to share their stories? That one can be a bit
of a challenge. I think that if the media could be
honest about their purpose and what their goals are, that way up front,
the survivor has the opportunity to decide whether or not they want to
be a part of that. Because sometimes the survivors, and we have like
(41:52):
a whole another section to our training workbook that we give people to
read in case they decide like beyond Resilient Voices, they want to be
a part of media sharing and media storytelling,
that that's totally different. And what you need to look for and be
ready for in that realm is quite a bit different when you might
(42:14):
tell the story one way and then they're going to cut and
slice. And when you see it, you might not even recognize it as
what you said. So we do provide information
so that survivors know that that's quite a bit different than being a
part of Resilient Voices. But I think generally people are becoming much
(42:34):
more informed about trauma and trauma informed principles. So I think if
people in the media can take that knowledge and just make sure that
they're being honest with survivors, that they're actually listening to
what the survivors are saying, that that would be super helpful.
Okay. And then what's your vision for the future of survivor storytelling
(42:57):
and the cultural change it can create? I think that storytelling is a
fabulous tool for culture change. And at this place that we are in
our society, I think that we need it, we desperately need it.
And like I said, I think it's almost while social media is great,
(43:19):
has done lots of positive things. In some ways, I think people have
become a little desensitized to harms and wrongdoing. So that's kind of
the tough thing that we're up against. For example, I'm always saying,
like, how is it possible that people are not outraged about child porn?
(43:41):
But you hear statistics about, oh, this is a billion dollar industry and
this... But you seldom hear this out now outrage. And to me,
I feel like everybody should be outraged that this is something that happens.
So I'm hoping that storytelling will help to create
some of that outrage and to change the dynamics and the community structure
(44:08):
that we will have an intolerance for evil, that there's some things that
are just not acceptable. And make that the norm. Like, nobody should feel
comfortable with this announcement that people are making billions of dollars
off of child pornography. And I know that's just one
harm. But because the dollar amount is always touted, it just needs,
(44:32):
yeah, there should be outrage. Anytime somebody is making that statement,
there should be community outrage about what are we going to do to
stop this? Because this should not be happening to children. So I'm hoping
that storytelling will continue to be impactful in changing those dynamics
as what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Okay. That really brings
(44:55):
it all full circle from a previous question where you had mentioned that
speakers need to be seen as human. So I kind of see like
you brought it all the way back home and that was beautiful.
So that is all the questions we have. Suzanne, is there anything that
(45:15):
you want to touch on before we stop?
Anything that I never asked you that's just you're dying to
say? No, I just want to give a big shout out to Beth.
Thank you so much for coming and sharing your story.
It is super impactful. And even though this is not the first time
I've heard it, it still just impacts me in such a positive way.
(45:37):
And I think that is important for all survivors to understand how much
as professionals we learn from survivor stories and how much it helps us
to do our work even better. So we're all so
connected. And if we use that connectivity, I think we can continue to
(45:58):
collaborate and do what needs to be done to create safer,
caring communities where justice thrives. Thank you, Suzanne. And thank
you for all that you do for survivors. I mean,
and continuing Resilient Voices, it's such a powerful,
like you said, way to heal and change the culture. Thank you. And
(46:22):
Beth, is there anything that I didn't get a chance to ask you
or anything that you want to leave a note on?
No, just I thank you for the invitation to be here and
I appreciated that. Well, thank you both so much for taking time out
of your busy schedules. This has been very rewarding
(46:44):
to sit here and listen, and just be able
to sift through it a little bit more,
if that makes sense. Yes. So thank you all so much.
Any views or opinions expressed on PA Centered by staff or their guests
(47:07):
are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of PCAR
or PCAR's funders.
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