A Day Among Pagans at Carolina Pagan Fest 2025

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At this annual event just outside of Greenville, SC, Carolina Pagan Fest gives people from parts of North Carolina, South Carolina, and parts of Georgia a chance to come together in celebration. 

This year we tried something different. We went with the intention of talking to some of the vendors who also had a purpose other than selling their wares as well as one individual with a slightly different perspective on the Pagan community. Here are the folks we spoke to (please share and support):

Becki Roberts - Free Mom Hugs - [e-mail] - Facebook Free Mom Hugs – South Carolina

Tony Brown - North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca - NCPCOW - Home

JoAnn Sinclair - North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca - NCPCOW - Home

Monica Evans - Self-professed Christian at a pagan festival 

Angelica Herandale - Morningstar Healing and Magick - 
ko-fi.com/morningstarhealingandmagick

Jozlyn Bodine - Upstate Ethereal Explorers - (11) Facebook

Jennifer Lesko - Two Crafty Ravens - (11) Facebook

Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Welcome to Peggy Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.

SPEAKER_03 (00:26):
Well, Lord Knight, this is a first for Pagan Coffee
Talk.
We are going to um we're gonnasee what happens today.
This is an experiment.
So we are a big experiment.
A big experiment, yeah.
So we are at Carolina Pagan Festum in the suburbs, the woods

(00:46):
basically of Greenville, SouthCarolina.

SPEAKER_04 (00:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (00:50):
And we are uh here with Lord Lou's group and um
loads and loads of other pagansand vendors, and literally we're
in the woods.
We're in the woods.
Fantastic.
Yep.
So uh we are going to be doingsome recordings and some

(01:11):
interviews, and we're gonna tryto talk to the people and um
yeah, bring the pagans to thepodcast.
Or the podcast to the pagans.
I don't know.
We'll go with both.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
I know that guy wouldn't go to the mountain, the
mountain came in the hammer.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29):
That's what I've heard.
That's the rumor.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Let's think that works.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33):
So I'm thinking we're gonna.
In case you didn't hear that,the 1130 classes are beginning.
Um so we're gonna go ahead andgrab some coffee and get this
show on the road.
Alright.

SPEAKER_10 (01:49):
Wonderful.
Hi Maggie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
How are you today?

SPEAKER_10 (01:52):
I'm wonderful.
How about yourself?
I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
So you're here with mom uh three mom hugs, right?

SPEAKER_10 (01:58):
How did you get involved in this?
Um, I actually helped start thechapter here in South Carolina
six years ago.
Um for me, um, I had a couple offriends that had been together
for 30 years and they um hadbeen strong together, and their
families just wouldn't reallyacknowledge it.
They were a couple.

SPEAKER_04 (02:16):
Right.

SPEAKER_10 (02:17):
They'd be like, when are y'all gonna move out from
each other's homes and getmarried and give us some
grandchildren?
Even though everybody knew antsand the and so when they could
get married in 2018, theydecided to get married and their
well, their family didn't come,and so our group of friends
showed up and stood in, and wewere their family for the day.

(02:39):
So about a year later, I heardabout Free Mom hugs, and I knew
that it was desperately neededbecause I had witnessed
firsthand how people can beabandoned by their family,
ignored, or put on a shell forwhat they believe in, who they
love.
And so I wanted to make surethat the upstate community had

(03:01):
that.

SPEAKER_02 (03:02):
So so what what does free hugs do?
I mean, what what what do y'allactually do?

SPEAKER_10 (03:08):
Okay, so we will stand in at weddings,
graduations, baby showers,places where families should be,
right, but can't be or won't be,regardless of the reasons.
We go and we try to fill in thatspace.
Now we know we can't replacesomeone's mother.
That's a hole that I can't fill,but I can at least offer them a
softer place to land duringthose times.

(03:30):
Um, and so we just go, we dothat.
We're at prod events, eventssuch as this here, offering hugs
and support and just lettingpeople know that we love them
and we see them, that they'revalid, and that we all are, and
that we want them to know thatthey have a community that they
can lean on, lean into, andcount on.

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Well, now I gotta ask, do y'all teach hugging
techniques?

SPEAKER_10 (03:54):
Actually, I that's a great question because we do,
because first consent is key.
You don't go and just hugsomeone without their
permission.
Not everyone wants to betouched.
So when they don't want to behugged, we offer fist bumps,
elbow bumps, so a good cheer.
Um you know, you get differentkinds of hugs.

(04:15):
There's some people that hugyou, that side hug, like you're
hugging your stinky ain't Edna.
And then we have folks that, youknow, are happy and they just
it's a joyous hug.
And then you reach those folkswho really need that space, that
sacred space to be inhale, andjust that touch that maybe
they've not had in a while fromsomeone who they look at as you

(04:38):
know, a mother or a grandmother.
Uh you don't have to be a motherto hug.
No.
Um, you can we offer dad dadhugs, gunkle hugs, sibling hugs,
because you know, we don't knowwhat you need.
You know, you may need amotherly figure, you may need a
more fatherly presence, you mayneed a sibling.

(04:58):
So, you know, we try to makesure that there is there's
someone there always present forwhoever whatever need they may
have in that moment, like it beit the joyful or if it's that
lean in into.
Um to quote Glenn and Doyle, sheuh did a word called Brutiful,
and it's when the work that youdo is brutal and beautiful all

(05:21):
at the same time.
And so I think this work is it'sbrutal work, and it's much
needed everywhere.
Um we started in Oklahoma, andnow we have a chapter in all 50
states, Australia and Japan.

SPEAKER_02 (05:37):
Okay.

SPEAKER_10 (05:38):
So uh this mission grew really fast, faster than
anyone would have thought itwould.
Uh, and in some cases, you know,we grew faster than the
infrastructure, and so we havehad to, you know, reevaluate as
we went through because wedidn't, you know, Sarah
Cunningham, our founder, had noidea this was going to be what

(05:59):
it is.
Um, she started when her soncame out, and she was trying to
reconcile her faith and the loveshe had for her child.
And so she went to a prideparade with them and a handmade
button that said free mom hugs,and she stood on the corner at
pride and offered hugs that day.
And sorry, and it changed sorry,it changed her whole

(06:23):
perspective.

SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
Oh what?

SPEAKER_10 (06:25):
So she she made a Facebook post that said, you
know, if your family won't cometo your same-sex wedding, uh,
I'll be there.
I'll be your biggest fan, I'lleven bring the bubbles.
That post went viral, and fourmonths later there were chapters
in 30 states.

SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
So, what's your hope for the future for this?

SPEAKER_10 (06:46):
A year ago, my hope was that I would hug myself out
of a position that I would notbe needed.
I want I want my goal would beto be obsolete.
Okay, but that is not where weare right now.

SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
No, but it's a good goal to have.
I agree with you there.
I like that.
So, how long have you been inthis community?
Pagan community-ish?

SPEAKER_10 (07:16):
Uh, last year was my first pagan fest, and um I fell
in love.
I did not realize that thiscommunity was here.
I had been by myself practicingfor a decade.
And so when we heard about PaganFest, I was like, I want us to
be there too.
And so I reached out and theyoffered us a space last year,

(07:38):
yeah, and they've not been ableto get rid of me since I love
that.
Um but we we just want to bewhere we're needed, and that's
everywhere.
It really is, it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
Is there anything else you'd like to tell our
listeners about the organizationor yourself?

SPEAKER_10 (08:00):
Um I would just want people to love their people, to
just love them, love them,accept them, and don't ostracize
people who are different thanyou because you don't
understand.
Take time to know people andjust to offer them that love and

(08:22):
that acceptance because youdon't know where whether or not
they're getting it in their owncircles.

SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
I can believe that.

SPEAKER_03 (08:40):
We gotta get Becky some coffee.

SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
Yes.
Becky, thank you.
And thank you.
Hey, hey, hey, I haven't seenyou in so long.

SPEAKER_04 (08:50):
I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
So, I mean, this is like the second event we've came
to.
Yeah, sorry.
All right, let's talk.
What's going on?

SPEAKER_06 (08:59):
Well, uh what you see around you.
We got uh got our church boothset up over there, uh, and when
we saw each other last, we wereat Hearth Fire in Gastonia, and
that's a project that I've beenworking on that I'm very pleased
with.

SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
Oh, can we hear a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_06 (09:16):
Yeah, it's uh it's a day event uh that uh it's uh you
can compare it to the old uhpagan pride day events that used
to really be ubiquitous, but uhwe don't see as many of them
anymore.
Uh especially in the in theCharlotte area.
Right.
Uh so it felt like there was aneed for something that would

(09:39):
let people from differentgroups, people uh individuals
that aren't affiliated, to havesomething where they could come
together and really connect withtheir community.
Um so we we searched around forsome imagery for some mythic
hook that could could draw drawus in.
And it was just right there, thehearth.

(09:59):
Right.
To pull people together.
Um and that's what we did.
We uh last year we did it.
Uh we did tried it in Septemberand it was too hot.
And uh it was a little warm.
It was a little warm.
Uh and it was uh we we'vetweaked the formula a little
bit.
Uh we've tried to restrict thenumber of vendors so that it was

(10:23):
so that the focus of the groupdidn't become just another
pop-up market.
Right.
We wanted it to really be umgeared toward and focused on the
building of community withworkshops and rituals, and uh
the big goal is to have peoplefrom different parts of the
pagan community who don't alwayssee each other.

(10:45):
That's it was so good to see youthere because it had been a long
time since I'd seen you.
But it was great because thereyou were.
And you know, it was it was justwonderful to reconnect and to
see people with fresh faces thathad never been part of the
community before.
True, it has.
So I I'm I'm very excited aboutthe Hearth Fire project.

SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (11:08):
It's which is not uh not technically a Church of
Wicca uh project, although thechurch was in uh involved, uh,
was served as one of thesponsors, but I want it to be
grassroots, I want the communityto own the festival rather than
it being something that onegroup does for everybody.
I want it to be something thateveryone comes together and does
together.

(11:28):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
So what's going on with your church then?

SPEAKER_06 (11:31):
Well, the church is going.
The church is uh is going outgame busters.
So we just last year paid offthe mortgage on our land.

SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (11:42):
So we are a a landed organization.
Uh it it and it what pleases meabout it is that the uh acreage
that we own is in the church'sname.
It's not something that one ofthe members owns and we get to
use.
The church owns it.
So that even when I'm gone, wheneveryone else is gone, and it's

(12:03):
a whole new crop of people, it'sstill there.
There.
And uh so that's lovely.
Oh, that's really exciting.
Uh we don't we don't have abuilding, but I don't know that
we ever want one.
We we want to worship outdoors.
We'll uh eventually get someamenities in, uh better, some

(12:23):
better parking situation, uh uha covered area.
I think of it as like an openair chapel would be nice.
Uh something that is uh justjust a presence.

SPEAKER_04 (12:34):
All right.

SPEAKER_06 (12:35):
And uh it's it's uh it's been good.
I'm proud of us.
Uh you you know, you because youyou were with us.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Uh I I would say when you first got seen us.
You were.

SPEAKER_06 (12:46):
You you you you saw us in our infancy.
And that was a long time ago.
Oh god, yes.
Uh to the best of my knowledge,we were the first legally
incorporated Wiccan church inthe state.
Yes.
And that's it's uh there's adistinction that I think is
important.
There were uh obviously weweren't the first Wiccan group,
we were not not the biggest, notthe most active, but we we made

(13:10):
an impression in a legal sensethat I think is important and
brought us forward.
So I'm I'm proud of us in thatregard.
And I'm proud of our longevity.
Oh god, yes.

SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
Because y'all y'all have been around quite a while.
So, anything else going on?
What are we looking at in thefuture?

SPEAKER_06 (13:26):
And let's see, the the future, I hope more hearth
fire, uh more things for thechurch to do.
Um we uh are doing monthly uh uhdiscussion groups, monthly book
clubs.
I I'm hoping, and we've beenworking on this for a long time,
is uh is a teaching program thatwill be open to people outside

(13:49):
of the organization.
Okay.
Uh the uh the idea of it is toprovide uh in PDF form lessons
that people can take and workthrough on their own.
Uh uh sort of uh like a year ina day program.
But more like self-study at thesame time.
But more like self-study at thesame time.
Something that'll give peopleaccess to to solid information.

(14:13):
Uh because you know, you lookaround and the younger
generation coming up, they don'thave they don't have the
organizations that we had.
They don't have the they don'thave access to things that that
we did in the same way that wedid.
They rely on resources that thatmaybe they don't have the

(14:35):
discernment to to navigate.
Right.
You know, we we're looking atwitch talk and a lot of social
media information.
And we would like to give them,you know, a baseline so that
they can can work on something.

SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
Well, I mean there's something to be said to that
face-to-face.
There's absolutely too.
I mean, don't get me wrong,social media has its place, but
face-to-face like me and you areright now is a whole lot
different than any of thatstuff, and there's a little bit
more spiritual to me.

SPEAKER_06 (15:02):
Agreed, and there's no substitute for it.
No, but the the point is ispeople are gonna get information
regardless, and I can't complainabout them thinking weird stuff
unless I give them analternative.

SPEAKER_02 (15:21):
I can understand that.
Anything else you'd like to talkabout, right?

SPEAKER_06 (15:26):
Um no, I want to say that I appreciate you giving me
the opportunity to be.
I would really appreciate it ifyou told anybody how to get a
hold of you in yourorganization.
You can reach the Church ofWicca uh through our website,
www.churchofwicca.org.
Uh-huh.
Uh, we're also active onFacebook.
Uh if you're interested inHearthfire, and I hope you are,

(15:47):
it's an event local to Gastonia,North Carolina, but we pull
people in from uh upstate SouthCarolina, uh the the entire uh
Metrolina region.
Uh and you can reach us atwww.hearthfire-festival.com.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
All right.

SPEAKER_03 (16:08):
Talk to some about um the church itself.
I mean really the journey to getto journey.
My goodness.
There's a history.

SPEAKER_06 (16:17):
Yeah, there is a history there.
Well, the what started thechurch is uh years ago, my wife
and I were looking for a groupto belong to.
We wanted to practice and wedidn't want to practice on our
own.
Uh and we looked at some covens,uh, we looked at some different
uh groups, and uh the thebarriers to meeting uh were

(16:41):
substantial.
Uh sometimes you know you had todrive a long way, sometimes the
commitments involved were beyondwhat we could make.
Uh this and I I in Shelby, NorthCarolina, I'm standing around
and I notice that on everystreet corner there is a

(17:02):
Christian church.
And if you walk, if you comeinto any town in the South and
you're a Christian and you wantto connect to your community and
your faith, then you can slideinto the back pew of any Baptist
church one Sunday morning, andbefore two o'clock that
afternoon, you know a mechanic,you know, you know a dentist,

(17:25):
there's a lady giving you a pieand a plate of biscuits, and and
that's and I wanted Wiccans andPagans to have access to at
least some small slice of that.
I wanted to uh I wantedsomething that was accessible,
something that did not make alot of demands up front,

(17:45):
something that uh someone whowas curious or seeking could
slide into at their own level,contribute what they could and
take from it what they needed.
And uh I ran into a man namedBaden Hill, whom you might may
have remembered meeting.
This was a long time ago.

(18:07):
It was a long time ago, but hehad uh talked uh with a lawyer
and had worked up some uh basicbylaws for a church structure
and had started an organizationin South Carolina, and he was
kind enough to give us access tothose resources, and we uh put a
call out for people who areinterested in starting that kind
of organization.

(18:28):
We ended up where there weremaybe half a dozen of us in in
the back meeting room of aQuincy's.
I remember that here in Shelby,North Carolina, and we went
through those bylaws article byarticle, and things we liked we
kept, and things we wanted tochange we changed, and things
that we didn't like we we threwout.

(18:48):
And we had a document thatrepresented everybody there and
what they saw as their vision ofthe church.
So with that collectiveownership, we passed the hat and
came up with the I think 60bucks that it takes to uh to do
the file to file in NorthCarolina at the time, and we

(19:09):
did.
And uh before the I think beforethe in-bulk of that year, uh we
had uh our uh incorporation allsettled out and we uh celebrated
our first Sabbath together anduh we just went ahead from
there.
And then it's been how manyyears now?
Uh that was in 1999.

(19:30):
So it has been a while.
It has been a while.
I don't remember being thatyoung.

SPEAKER_02 (19:37):
I do remember being in the back of that Quincy's.

SPEAKER_06 (19:40):
Well, what I liked about it is you could uh get a
steak and the buffet on theside.
I just remember liking therolls.
Oh god, those rolls were sogood.
Thank you.
Why why can't they do thatanymore?
What happened to Quincy's?
What happened to the rolls?

SPEAKER_04 (20:01):
Clearly, you gentlemen are hungry.

SPEAKER_06 (20:04):
I'm just saying they were they were good rolls.
They were good rolls.
But I know since then we've oneof the things that has driven us
is the idea of a uh smooth andfrequent transitions in
leadership.

SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (20:18):
So we have you know term limits built in on the the
business side of things.
Our chancellor uh changes uhchanges hands uh uh every three
years is the term, and they'reterm limited to two terms.
Uh so we're on our fifth, sixth,seventh, I don't know how how
far in uh chancellor.

(20:38):
Uh I uh think we're on our thirdhigh priest or fourth or fifth
high priestess, and we we movefrom those positions to other
positions, and that it keeps usfrom building up around a
personality.
Right.
With this uh we we work on thestructure and the organization

(21:01):
above that.
Right.
So the membership selects thecouncil, the council ordains the
clergy, and so it's the the handof everyone involved up to the
highest level.
It's grassroots uh up uh ratherthan a uh top-down philosophy.
And that's and I'm I'm not beingcritical of any other

(21:23):
structures.
No, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
I'm just saying that it uh again, it's the way y'all
operate, it's not the wayeverybody does.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 (21:32):
It was important to me to see that vision, and I'm
so pleased that it that it'shappened.

SPEAKER_02 (21:37):
Well, I mean, again, with you saying that, I mean, I
I tell people all the time,religion's just like shoes.
Uh huh.
We all need a pair, it's justfinding the right pair of the
fit.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Again, not everybody's gonna goour way, and not everybody's
gonna go.
Exactly.
But it's nice to know peoplelike you.
So when they come to us and theygo, and I go, no, you might want
to go see these guys instead.

SPEAKER_06 (21:58):
And and vice versa.
People like this is not what Iexpected.
I'm like, well, there are otherthings.
Other groups that's different.
There are worlds other thanthese.
Because none of us have the way.
Exactly.
But we can all get together.
Events like this.
Yeah, I love I love what'shappening here today because you

(22:21):
and I we're 10 feet apart.
Uh there's another group, uh,Caddy Corner to us, that uh runs
a community group completelyfree of path sensor.
That they are uh a multi-path,non-uh doctrinal uh community

(22:42):
group, and that's wonderful.
Yeah.
That there's a free mom's hug.
There's everything here, andwe're all together working
together for a common goal.
Yes.
It's God, it pleases me so much.

SPEAKER_05 (22:55):
It does make it so I really do appreciate that.
So good.

SPEAKER_03 (23:03):
So Joanna, uh wait a moment is that.
I'm up there yourself.
Sinclair.
Yes.
NCP.

SPEAKER_12 (23:09):
I just got divorced on Thursday.

SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
So we're talking about divorce.

SPEAKER_03 (23:18):
So you are how are you related to Tony?

SPEAKER_12 (23:21):
So I yeah, I've been with the Church of Wicca for
almost 10 years now.

SPEAKER_02 (23:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (23:26):
I've been the chancellor for the past two or
three years.
Two or three years?
Two or three years, yeah.
Um Tony Brown was the firstperson from the Church of Wicca
that I met.
I back when we do an eventcalled Wicca Wednesday, where we
just kind of chill and we talkabout witchy things on the first

(23:48):
Wednesday of every month.
But back then it was pagans inthe park.

SPEAKER_04 (23:53):
Right.

SPEAKER_12 (23:53):
And I attended that for the that was like the first
Wiccan event that I ever went touh since moving back to North
Carolina.
And I went in and I sat downwith Tony Brown and I said, I
don't like Wicca.
I identified as a pagan.
I've been a practicing pagansince I was about 13.

(24:14):
My introduction to paganism wasScott Cunningham.

SPEAKER_04 (24:17):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (24:18):
Um but my experience with Wicca up north was not a
very good one.
Lots of very traditionalGardinarian Wiccans were there.
Um I went and I sat down withTony Brown and I said, I don't
really like Wicca, but changedmy mind.

(24:38):
And we talked about every bookthat I've read, and I just
happened to have read a lot ofbooks that he read, and I just
kept going to their events, andnow here I am.

SPEAKER_02 (24:53):
So did you ever change your view on Wicca?

SPEAKER_12 (24:55):
I did, yeah, I did.
I identify more as an eclecticWiccan, I think, not so
traditional.

SPEAKER_02 (25:03):
Right.

SPEAKER_12 (25:04):
Um, I think a lot of the people in the Church of
Wicca identify as eclectic morethan anything else.
I uh am polytheistic, I workwith eight deities.

SPEAKER_04 (25:15):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (25:15):
On a more personal level, I uh the first deities
that I started working with wereGaia and Ornos.

SPEAKER_04 (25:22):
Alright.

SPEAKER_12 (25:23):
So a lot of the deities I work with are more
Greek.
Um Tony Brown is Dionysus allthe way, so we've had many,
many, many, many, manyconversations about that as
well.
Um in my personal practice athome, I still kind of follow

(25:44):
that more eclectic vibe.
I don't, a lot of my stuff isherbal based.

SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
Alright.
Now, as the Chancellor ofPiedmont Church of Wicca, if I
showed up, what am I gonna whatam I getting?

SPEAKER_12 (25:58):
So, if you came to one of our rituals.

SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
If I came to one of your rituals, give me kind of a
little bit of a low down.
What am I gonna get?

SPEAKER_12 (26:04):
So we do we meet once a month, so we meet for the
S-bots and the Sabbaths.

SPEAKER_05 (26:09):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (26:09):
If you come to an S-bot, it's a little more
relaxed, a little more um not sostructured as our Sabbaths are,
I would say.
For our S-bots, we schedule themwith the phase of the moon.
Right.
And we do different, lots ofdifferent things for our S-bots.
But when you come to a ritual,what you can expect is to find a

(26:31):
bunch of pagans hanging out inthe woods, and for a while we
just hang out, we socialize, wedo a potluck, and then we do
circle.
And our circle, our rituals dofollow a more um wicken outline.
We get in the circle, we castthe circle, we call on the god

(26:53):
and the goddess, and weencourage our everyone that's in
circle to call on their ownpersonal deities in that moment.
The high priest and the highpriestess will call the god and
the goddess, but you can fillthat in with your own personal
deities.
And we'll do a little ritual,we'll do cakes and ale, we do

(27:14):
prayers where we walk in thecircle.
Everyone can say a prayer, butyou don't have to.
Um and then we close the circle.
We call on the elements, dismissthe elements.
It's not super, super formal,but there's still that formality
to it.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (27:32):
So in uh any other services, weddings, funerals, I
mean.

SPEAKER_12 (27:36):
Yes, yes.
I well, being chancellor, I amnot clergy.
Okay, as chancellor, I handlemore of uh the business part of
the church.
I lead the council in ourmeetings.
Our business meetings are alsoopen to the public, so we
encourage lots of people to cometo those, see how we operate.
Um as chancellor, I representthe church in a more businessy

(28:01):
manner, I would say.
As not being clergy, I stillcounsel people as needed.
Um but I do not performweddings.
However, our clergy do performweddings, and I've been to many
of them.

SPEAKER_02 (28:14):
Well, then what would it take to become a clergy
through one of the yeah?

SPEAKER_12 (28:17):
So to be clergy, we have a whole educational program
that's led by our by our highpriest and high priestess, and
we are also working on a moreformal educational program.
I have written many pieces forthat.
Um to be clergy, we do do theyear and a day.

(28:38):
And it's led by our high priest,so he will give you him and the
high priestess will give youdifferent homework assignments,
basically.

SPEAKER_04 (28:47):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (28:48):
And then after that year and a day, you they either
recommend you to be clergy thenor they say, actually, we're
gonna keep going with yourtraining and we'll get you
there.
If you come to us and you sayyou want to be clergy, our goal
is to get you there.

SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
Okay.
Anything else you'd like to tellus about your self, your temple,
any organizations, uh we're alsoinvolved in?

SPEAKER_12 (29:11):
I don't know.
Ask me questions.
I'm better at answeringquestions.

SPEAKER_02 (29:16):
We're all better at answering questions.

SPEAKER_03 (29:19):
I think it would be interesting to go back to what
you were saying about yourexperience versus.

SPEAKER_12 (29:25):
Yeah.
So I'm originally fromPittsburgh.

SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (29:30):
And it's a huge, huge city, lots of different
stuff.
Um my experience with pagangroups up north was really not
great.
And it could have been adifferent it was a different
time.
I was very, very young.
And a lot of the people in thosegroups were significantly older

(29:51):
than me, and they did not, Idon't think they appreciated my
input very much.
Like there, I didn't move southuntil 18.
So I was a child.
They had no right to listen tome anyway.
But I had read so much and I hadso many questions, and they did
not, they didn't seem like theywanted to answer those

(30:14):
questions.
And when it came to findingspecifically Wiccan groups, I
found that they were moretraditional to Gardner.

SPEAKER_05 (30:25):
Right.

SPEAKER_12 (30:26):
So they weren't very affirming as far as people
within the LGBTQ community.
They were not very open to umdifferent beliefs that didn't
follow their strict structure.

(30:46):
Right.
And I did not follow that strictstructure at all.
So it was it's very different,and it could be super different
now too.
I haven't looked into any groupsup north in many, many, many
years, but it was a huge, hugedifference.
I spent a lot of time being asolitary practitioner.

(31:07):
I've always come at paganism andat witchcraft from a very
academic point of view.
Um I study psychology, so myspirituality.
My spirituality and my uhacademia kind of go hand in hand
a lot sometimes.

(31:30):
That's all good.
Um I lived in Hawaii for a longtime, and I was a pay a
practicing pagan in Hawaii, andI spent a long time learning the
uh native traditions there, andI never brought those into my

(31:52):
own personal practice because Ifelt like that'd be kind of
weird disrespectful, but Iappreciated learning about it a
lot.
And that's kind of how I come atbeing a pagan.
I enjoy learning other people'spractice, practice, you see,
yeah.
Yeah, I really like talking topeople and learning how they

(32:13):
incorporate their spiritualityinto other areas in their life.

SPEAKER_02 (32:17):
Right.
Trying to explain to people howin the world this is my life is
really hard to explain topeople.
Like, you know, it does sort oftake over every aspect of your
life before you know it.

SPEAKER_12 (32:30):
It does, it does, it definitely does.
I have an 11-year-old, and hehas been raised in that pagan
household since he was born.

SPEAKER_05 (32:40):
Right.

SPEAKER_12 (32:41):
So that's been a journey too.
When he was much younger, ummaking things more magical was
easier because now he's 11.
Um, but when he was little, wedid a lot of where we had fairy
houses and we would doofferings.

(33:01):
Like my offerings were much moreregular when my kid was little
and I could involve him more,and he was more, yeah, my mom's
so cool.
Now I'm not cool because he's11.
But um that's been interestingtoo.
Um, raising a child that has noidea what that being brought up
in Christianity is.

SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Okay.

SPEAKER_12 (33:24):
That's been a fun thing.

SPEAKER_02 (33:26):
Alright.
What what other things have youdone raising a son like this?
Um that might be out of theunusual.
For for you with the, you know,what would you consider more the
pagan way of growing up againstthe other?

SPEAKER_12 (33:40):
So I would say as far as raising kids with that
pagan framework is more like I'mnot we we don't he's he's
growing up without any kind ofreligious trauma.
He's very educated in not justpaganism, but he is also very

(34:01):
educated in Christianity andJudaism and Catholicism and
several other religion andspiritual paths.
He's been raised in a way thatwe practice this.

unknown (34:16):
How the hell did you do all that?

SPEAKER_12 (34:18):
I read way too much.
Listen, I read so much, but he'saware that these other religions
and these other belief systemsexist, and that gives him the
opportunity to kind of just havethat baseline respect for all of

(34:40):
these other different practicesbecause he's grown up in the
pagan community, so he knows wedo it this way at home, we do it
this way at church, and otherpeople do it this way, and
there's nothing wrong with that.
No, the differences are whatmakes it beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
Well, I think it's what makes it fun.

SPEAKER_12 (35:02):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (35:04):
I mean, it'd be kind of boring if we're all the same,
right?

SPEAKER_12 (35:07):
Right.
So he's very aware of thedifferent paths within paganism.
For the longest time, he wasobsessed with Zeus and Thor at
the same time.
And I was like, hey man, that'skind of weird, but I dig it.
Yeah, yeah.
And then, like, also had astatue of Kali in his room for

(35:31):
the longest time, and he woulddo his own little offerings, and
he's just been being a paganparent's been interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (35:40):
Lady Keegan's oldest boy used to associate Lulal
Gifies with Lulu Lou theSkywalker.
Oh, because they both lost thenorm.

SPEAKER_12 (35:49):
I think that he's yeah, like and he also knows
like again, my practice isrooted in herbalism a whole
bunch.
Right.
So, like my kid, when he getssick, it's not like let's drink
all the Tylenol in the world.
It's oh no, mom's gonna make medrink that gross fire cider

(36:09):
again.
So, like, it's things like that,or it's things like our
holidays.
Our holidays are kind ofdifferent.
Yes.
And when he was smaller, he wasable to stay home from school
for to celebrate the Sabbaths athome because we would do our own
thing at home.
And his school couldn't reallyargue with me, so that made a

(36:34):
difference too.

SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
That made a difference, didn't they?

SPEAKER_12 (36:37):
It did make a difference with the school
system for sure.
They had they learned a couplethings for sure.
He's also the kid that will takea pentagram to show and tell.
So that's been fun.
A fun journey, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (36:53):
Anything else you'd like to discuss?

SPEAKER_12 (36:55):
Um, not that I can think of.
Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_02 (36:58):
I I don't have any questions to say for how can
people get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_12 (37:01):
Yes, you can find me on Facebook, look my name up,
Joanne Sinclair, because I justgot divorced.
Um, I'm also on the NorthCarolina Piedmont Church of
Wicca Facebook somewhere.
But yeah, I'm super easy to geta hold of.
I promise.
I'm super findable online.
Um, I'm also super active inevery other part of the

(37:24):
community in Shelby.
So I'm the president of thelocal Pride group as well.
So you can find me throughShelby Pride.
You can find me through Iorganize community gardens in
Shelby.
So anything associated withShelby that's more progressive
and calm-y sounding, I'mprobably part of it.

SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
All right.

SPEAKER_12 (37:44):
So that's how you can find me.

SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Hey, it was nice having you.

SPEAKER_12 (37:47):
Nice thing, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_11 (37:50):
Hi Monica, how are you?
Um I'm good.
All right how about you?

SPEAKER_02 (37:54):
I'm great.
And tell me about yourself.

SPEAKER_11 (37:57):
Well, um, born and raised in upstate South
Carolina.

SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_11 (38:02):
Uh went to school at Clemson and um have been here
just about all of my life exceptfor four years when I was in New
Jersey, which needs to bechiseled off the United States
of America and floated out as anisland.

SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
All right.
I'll take your word for that.
I was born in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_11 (38:21):
North Carolina, South Carolina, we're all
Carolina.

SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Just saying.
So this is kind of funny becauseyou're at a pagan event, but
you're not pagan.

SPEAKER_11 (38:31):
I am I am not pagan, but I have a belief in the
concept of doing no harm.
Okay.
Because I believe that's just adifferent way of what Jesus
said.
Uh love God, love others.
And so how how can you loveothers?
The best is do no harm.

SPEAKER_02 (38:49):
Do no harm.
I completely agree with that.

SPEAKER_11 (38:51):
Um, raised Christian, United Methodist, um,
currently in a church Baptist inGreenville, South Carolina, that
actually is LBGTQ friendly.
We were kicked out of theSouthern Conference because we
marry people that want to lovewho they want to love.

(39:12):
And the first time I pastormarried two men, the Southern
Conference said you can nolonger be affiliated with us,
but we still call ourselves theBaptist Church.
All right.
Very a third of the congregationis um in the uh LBGTQ.
Okay.
Third.

SPEAKER_02 (39:27):
Okay.

SPEAKER_11 (39:28):
Couples with kids, it's really wonderful.
It's a wonderful environment tobe at.
I really love my church.

SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
All right.
It seems like a rather largechurch.

SPEAKER_11 (39:37):
It is, it is a very large church.
In fact, we're getting ready torebuild because we've grown so
much.

SPEAKER_02 (39:41):
So, what brings you out here to the pagan event
hanging out with us weirdos?

SPEAKER_11 (39:47):
Well, my husband actually is the medic for the
event.

SPEAKER_02 (39:51):
Yes, and we do appreciate that.

SPEAKER_11 (39:53):
Yeah, and he's very good at what he does, so y'all
are very fortunate.

SPEAKER_02 (39:56):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 (39:57):
But um mostly, you know, just to be around people
of like-minded and uh to see howhappy everyone is and how how
helpful, how appreciative, howum just uh accepting.
And um I I wish our world couldbe more like that.

(40:21):
And I'm not saying that it youshould someone should practice
one religion or another.

SPEAKER_04 (40:26):
Right.

SPEAKER_11 (40:26):
I just the concept of do no harm.
Imagine how different our worldwould be if we did that, if all
of us thought that.
Now, I I was talking to um oneof your friends that asked me
about how how, yeah, Lady Alba,how how are you here?
You know, how are you here?
And I'm like, well, let me tellyou, make sure we understand.

(40:48):
I am a Christian professed byfaith.
Um, however, I do believe inMother Earth.
I believe that God is both maleand female, and the reason I
believe that is because all lifestarts as female, and it either
becomes a male or it stays afemale.

SPEAKER_04 (41:10):
Right.

SPEAKER_11 (41:11):
So in that case, if we're created in God's image,
which I believe means that weall have a soul, not that we
look like God, but we all have asoul, then God must have created
us as both, but he created us,he separated us to procreate.

SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_11 (41:28):
Because he had to do that.
So this the whole concept of theseparation of uh belief in
Mother Earth and the belief inChristianity, I I just I don't I
don't get it.
I I'm not saying that therearen't differences, but you know
what?
There's difference between us,us and Catholics too.

SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
True.
Big differences.
There's some big differencesthere.
Big difference.
Virgin Mary, yes.

SPEAKER_11 (41:54):
I'm sorry.
I shouldn't have said that,should I?

SPEAKER_02 (41:56):
I was raised Southern Baptist, I've been down
that path before.
So I know where you are again,accent.

SPEAKER_11 (42:04):
Right, right.
We do have that, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 (42:07):
We do, don't we?
Southern.
I am very proud of my accent atthis point.

SPEAKER_11 (42:12):
I am too.
I pull it out every once in awhile when I need to.

SPEAKER_02 (42:16):
Especially when I'm up north.

SPEAKER_11 (42:18):
Everybody looks at you going, they're they're
looking I did it one time when Iwas in London traveling.

SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
Oh god.

SPEAKER_11 (42:24):
And uh my um my cab driver was like, Are you are you
from America?
I said, Yes, I am.
What part?
He said, I I said Southeast.
She said, like John Wayne typeof talk.
Did you talk like that?
And then I started and he waslike, Oh my god, can I record
you?

SPEAKER_02 (42:38):
I I got a job up in Maryland, and like I walked into
my first restaurant up there,and I looked at him and said,
What fixings come with that?
And the woman looking at megoing, What are you talking?

SPEAKER_11 (42:48):
I when I was in New Jersey, I went in a store and
asked for a buggy.
And they said, Huh?
I said, You know, a buggy thatyou push around, put a buggy.
Oh, you mean a cart?
I said, Well, yeah, I guess youcan call it that, but it's a
buggy.
Do you have any?

SPEAKER_02 (43:06):
But you know, you think there's small differences
like that in real world that wefind funny, but when we look at
religion, not understanding someof these words sometimes can
cause a whole lot of problem.

SPEAKER_11 (43:20):
You know what?
And a lack of being willing toeven understand and learn.
Um when I think of paganism, andwhat I I invited a great many
people.
We were at an upstateRenaissance fair recently here
in um, it was in Gringle.

SPEAKER_04 (43:36):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_11 (43:36):
And everybody I met, I'm like, hey, do you know about
the pagan festival?
Like, pagan.
I said, wait a minute.
Not not the horns and tails andstuff.
I said, this is a connection toMother Earth.
I invited everybody that Italked to to this event because
you know, we're really goodfriends with Clint Ken Clarkey.
My husband's been with uh thefestival as a medic since 2012.

(43:59):
So we've been here a long time.

SPEAKER_05 (44:01):
Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 (44:02):
I didn't realize it had been him this whole entire
time.

SPEAKER_11 (44:04):
It's been him this whole entire time.

SPEAKER_02 (44:06):
Because we've been coming off and on over the
years.

SPEAKER_11 (44:09):
Well, I'm glad y'all are here today.

SPEAKER_02 (44:10):
I am glad we are here too.

SPEAKER_11 (44:13):
You see my book I just got?
Soul Lessons and Soul Purpose.
And you know what?
There's a whole lot in here thatcan be leaked straight to Jesus
Christ.
I went on Amazon to look it upto see how much it cost.
About 15, 14, 15 bucks.
Use six, so I went and boughtit.
And I'm gonna read it.

(44:34):
Now and I read my Bible now.
Let's get it right.
All right, but at the stop atthe same time, I I believe that
there is uh there's room forlove in other places as well.
Okay.
But I I am I am a professedChristian of faith.

SPEAKER_02 (44:51):
So it was so nice to meet you.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 (44:56):
Thank you, thank you.
I really appreciate youropportunity to to speak with
you.

SPEAKER_02 (45:01):
Um I can't wait for people to hear what you got to
say.

SPEAKER_11 (45:05):
I hope they like it too.
Hi, welcome.

SPEAKER_08 (45:10):
Hello!

SPEAKER_02 (45:11):
Can you introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_08 (45:12):
So my name is Angelica Herendale, and I own uh
Morningstar Healing and Magic.

SPEAKER_02 (45:20):
Okay.
And what else?

SPEAKER_08 (45:25):
Um, you know.
Um, so we do a lot of deitywork, central work.
Uh so the newest item is kind ofthe um mini travel altars for
different deities.
Uh, and it has custom artworkthat I made and custom prayers.
And it has a small littlechaplet in there, a couple

(45:48):
herbs, and then um a tea light.
And so you can travel with itand it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 (45:53):
Alright, so mainly you just own a shop and you're
up here doing your shop, right?

SPEAKER_08 (45:58):
Yes, I also do readings, um, but I do them
because I'm not from aroundhere.
I'm uh based in Charlotte, uh inNorth Carolina.
Oh, perfect! See?
We're in Concord.
I I only say Charlotte becausemost people are like the
Concord.
You know the Concord, I lovethat.
Um so I go to the Bag Lady and Iread there every third Sunday.

(46:24):
Um and I do tarot and thenwhatever comes through with
spirit, but yeah, so I have acouple different traditions, but
I try to follow Which one?

SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
What is your main tradition that you follow?

SPEAKER_08 (46:38):
I don't have a main one.
I I do work with a lot ofdifferent deities and spirits.
Um so I work with infernals, Iwork with Greek deities, I work
with Santa Morte, like it's justa kind of a modge of all of
them.
So um, yeah, they kind of directme and kind of where I need to

(47:01):
go.
So I work with Lucifer, uh, andhis light has been very bright
in my life, and when I wasrebranding from um, I used to it
used to be named Angel DreamCreations when I was rebranding,

(47:23):
I made sure that my logo had umLucifer, Hekate, and Loki in it,
um, and they were represented.
And then when I was thinking ofa name, I wanted healing to be
in there because I always aimfor people to feel better going
out of a terror meeting thancoming in.
And I'm also a Reikipractitioner, so I like to make
sure that everyone's you knowall good and being able to hold

(47:46):
the space for them.
Uh so when I was looking for thename, that's when he was like,
you should use Morningstar, andI'm like, okay.
Because I like to be that thatlight for people.

SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
So now with working with Morningstar, I guess we
need to go through the wholeentire thing.
Can you please give all thedisclaimers and so when you were
So you know what I'm saying?
That we're not talking about thepeople that everybody thinks
we're not here.
Yeah, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 (48:19):
So Lucifer Morningstar is not um, he is an
infernal.
It is not based in the Christianpantheon, if you call it a
pantheon, uh Christian realm.
But uh if you want to work withinfernals, you have to be
careful when approaching them.

(48:39):
Um you have to know what you'regetting into.
And a lot of it isexperience-based type work
because there's not a lot ofbooks, like how-to books out
there, even though I wish therewas.
So it's a lot of learning, a lotof learning through like trial
and error and just being kind ofopen to learning those lessons.
So if you're not open tolearning lessons, then you

(49:02):
probably shouldn't work withinfernals right away.
Um, I didn't start working withinfernals until probably within
the past year.
What brought you to working withthe fam more than um, so I got a
reading with um, I'm calling hermy business partner today
because uh we bend together.
Um, and this was like way beforelike we were friends, and I got

(49:26):
a reading from her, and she'slike, hey, you know, Lucifer's
coming in, like he wants to workwith you.
Um apparently he's likeancestral for me.
And I was like, Oh, okay.
I know nothing about that, butlike I'm open to you know,
seeing, and um that's when Ikind of just I was like, sure,
why not?

(49:48):
So um that's kind of my firstone was Hecate, and then just
kind of slowly they've gone inand out, depending on um,
because I worked with Persephoneat one point.
So it just I mean, with whenyou're doing deity work, it's
not all of them are going to bepermanent, like all the time.

SPEAKER_02 (50:07):
No, no, I mean they're gonna change as you
change and you grow up and yes,yes.

SPEAKER_08 (50:14):
And I mean they're there definitely there to teach
you lessons.
I mean, there's um even workingwith like Santa Muerte, like she
she is a saint for everybody,but again, you need to know like
what you're getting into withher.
She is not one that you can justbe it's not when you should be
like, oh my god, I'm just gonnawork with her today.
No, you need to make sure youknow what you're getting into so

(50:36):
that you are not breaking anypromises that you make to them.

SPEAKER_03 (50:40):
It's about a relationship, yes.

SPEAKER_08 (50:42):
Yes.
Um they are not transactional, Ido not believe especially her,
but they are not transactionaldeities.
It is building that relationshipof um understanding them and
having them understand you aswell, because it's that back and
forth.
So um so in a typical instance,uh like with the more well-known

(51:08):
pantheons like Greek, um Celtic,uh Norse, like those ones,
there's a lot of books outthere.
Norse you have to be carefulbecause there are white
supremacists in that, so becareful.
Um but research, research,research, and research more.
Like research.

(51:29):
Uh more so just because you wantto know kind of what drives them
and what drives you to work withthem.
So, like with Hekate, she isdefinitely that torch that
guides me through like darkertimes.
Loki is my chaos manager.

SPEAKER_03 (51:49):
I think he accepts the title.

SPEAKER_08 (51:50):
Yeah, yeah, he he definitely helps kind of like
when chaotic things come my way.
Like, you know, I used to not beable to handle those changes so
quickly, and now like when thechange comes, I'm like, alright,
what's next?
Um, but definitely just beingopen to like sitting with them
and understanding I I definitelythink understanding what drives

(52:14):
them the most is the biggestthing.
Um and just being able to havethat time uh like set aside to
uh have a candle at their altarand even if you can't have an
altar or like a candle, uh,because you don't need the
stuff, you just need them andyour well, you just need you and
your relationship to them.

(52:35):
Um but if you can have a candle,then it's great to give them
light.
Um but yeah, it's it's reallyjust I mean, it's how you build
a relationship with a person,right?
So it's just sitting there andlearn and think.

SPEAKER_03 (52:52):
Do you have an actual shop in California?

SPEAKER_09 (52:58):
Oh yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_08 (52:59):
Uh so I don't have a physical shop, but I have a
Ko-Fi, which is it's MorningstarHealing and Magic under the
Ko-Fi.
Um, and then I am at the BagLady every third Sunday from
most of the time one to fivereading tarot.
So, um yeah, those are the twoplaces and at festivals

(53:23):
randomly.
So the next one that we're gonnahave is the witch's bazaar in
Salisbury.
Um, and then there's one atTraust Brewery in November, I
believe.
So, yeah.
I'm around.
Well, we look forward to it.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (53:42):
Thank you.
Hi, um, my name is Jocelyn.
Um, I'm the co-founder ofUpstate Ethereal Explorers.
Um, I live in Greer, but ourgroup is based in Greenville,
South Carolina.
Okay.

SPEAKER_13 (53:55):
Yeah.
All right, well, tell me moreabout your group.

SPEAKER_00 (53:57):
Yeah, so uh the Upstate Ethereals are basically
a non-dogmatic um kind of socialgroup.
Uh, we like to put on socialevents to help people expand
their spirituality while alsobuilding community and giving
them that space um fromdeconstruction of uh suppressive
organized religious structuresto finding what works for them

(54:20):
and kind of expanding from that.
But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (54:23):
What do you do we what kind of activities do y'all
do?

SPEAKER_00 (54:26):
Yeah, so we um we host events like we have our our
main event is called TarotTuesday, right um, where we go
to Southernside Brewing um inGreenville, South Carolina, and
people of all experience levelsof tarot come.
Um we even get people who havenever done tarot before or don't
even know what tarot is, butthey're just interested.
And we always love those curiousexplorers.
And I mean that's that's in ourname, explorers.

(54:48):
We want people who are seeking,we want people who are always
curious and always wanting toknow more.
Um and so we like bridging thegaps of people who don't know
anything about this kind ofstuff, meeting people who have
been in practice for 20, 30years.

SPEAKER_02 (55:08):
So y'all have some workshops too?

SPEAKER_00 (55:11):
Yes, um, so we occasionally do workshops.
Um, one of the most recent oneswe did is a um ritual and modern
life uh workshop where it's kindof helping people understand
that in the busy hustle-bustleof late-stage capitalism, um
they can do ritual, even if it'sthe mundane, even if it's

(55:32):
brushing your teeth and youknow, having the intention of
I'm going to communicate clearlyand properly and with full
authenticity today.
That's ritual.
You know, ritual you can haveplanned out, intensive, thorough
ritual, but it can also just bethe mundane.
There can be magical in themundane throughout your daily
life, and that's just kind ofwhat that ritual is about.

(55:54):
But yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (55:55):
So let me ask you, what inspired you to start such
a group?
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
So Where did this come from?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:02):
So I'm originally from Charlotte, North Carolina,
and um there was a little socialevent there where we lived, my
wife and I, she's the otherco-founder, um, Rin.
And um, it was also called TarotTuesday, and it was just kind of
a little gathering of pagans inCharlotte.
Um, and we really enjoyed it.
We found community there, and wefound people that we really

(56:22):
resonate with.
Um we moved to Greer, SouthCarolina, um, almost two years
ago, and there wasn't anythinglike that here.
We kind of missed our weeklygathering of just people that
are kindred spirits, people whopractice the same thing that we
do.
And so why not make itourselves?

(56:42):
You know?

SPEAKER_02 (56:43):
Let's ask that question.
What do y'all practice?
What do you what do you believein?
I assume your group don't reallybelieve it.
Yes, of course.
Everybody's a little different.

SPEAKER_00 (56:51):
What do you believe in?
So, my personal I I fall undermany different labels.
I am a witch, I am a Celticpagan, um, I'm a sp I'm a
spiritualist.
I mean, I I that's the thing Ilove about my group is that
there's so many different kindsof practices in our sphere that
a lot of things resonate.

(57:13):
You know, the more you exposeyourself to, the more you think,
oh, I resonate with that.
I I like that practice.
I want to adopt a little bit ofthat into my life.
And I don't think there's I Ijust I can't call myself one
thing, you know?

SPEAKER_02 (57:30):
Well what what kind of faith do you follow?

SPEAKER_00 (57:32):
I mean Oh, absolutely.
I think that it's hard to pickone.
I mean, I I I worship um theMorgan as as as my deity.
And I also follow a lot ofCeltic paganism, and at the same
time, I have just differentspiritual beliefs about

(57:56):
reincarnation.
Um I believe in multiple lives,I believe in different forms of
the afterlife, and I think thatI find resonance with a lot of
different religions, and so Ican't just call myself one
thing.
I think that you can take bitsand pieces of many different
religions and say no one iscompletely incorrect.

SPEAKER_02 (58:20):
Nobody's completely right either.

SPEAKER_00 (58:21):
That's correct, yeah.
And that's why I can't callmyself one thing, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
But and it's that kind ofexploration that I found myself
in my own practice that is partof the reason we tell everyone
to just keep exploring.
We're never done learning, youknow?

SPEAKER_13 (58:37):
No, we're never, we never are.
No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 (58:39):
We've we've heard this throughout this same theme
throughout the day.
Everybody can believe differentstuff and still get along.
Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (58:48):
I think that one of the things that's been most
powerful about our group andwhat I have enjoyed the most is
seeing people of differentgenerations also come together.
I've seen a lot of people thatare still in college, you know,
and are just finding theirfooting in their own
spirituality, meeting withpeople who are in their 50s and
60s, and they're friends, andthey can talk about similar

(59:09):
things because of spirituality,even though they're complete
from completely differentworlds.

SPEAKER_02 (59:14):
It also helps when you know the younger people
realize this older people werejust as confused as they are at
some point.
Absolutely, yeah.
And you don't get that by nottalking about it.
No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (59:23):
Well, and that's the thing, like, there's so much to
learn from.
I mean, like, there's so much tolearn from the older
generations, and the oldergenerations can learn from the
younger generations, and it justmakes me just so thrilled to see
people coming together fromdifferent backgrounds and
different creeds and differentpractices, and even if something
doesn't resonate for someoneelse, just the knowledge of oh,
that's a really interestingpractice that I've never heard

(59:46):
of, you know?

SPEAKER_02 (59:47):
I I can understand that there's a lot of them out
there.

SPEAKER_00 (59:49):
Yeah, reverence and respect.
That's what we're all about.

SPEAKER_02 (59:52):
But how can anybody find your group or information
on your group?

SPEAKER_00 (59:56):
So uh we're primarily on Facebook at uh
upstate ethereals.
Uh That's our handle.
Um, you can also find us onLinktree uh at Linktree uh
forward slash Upstate Ethereals.
And yeah, you can also find uson Instagram, TikTok, um, and
we're also building a websiteright now, and that's gonna be
upstateethereals.com.
Okay, great.
Yeah, nice to meet you.

(01:00:17):
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:20):
Hi, well let's start off by introducing yourself.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:23):
Um, well, my name is Jennifer.
Um, like like was stated, I'm myhusband and I started two crafty
ravens about eight years ago,just because we wanted something
a little extra, a little fun todo.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:35):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:35):
Um, you know, side hustle, make a little extra
money.
And we've been doing it foreight years now.
So we're doing something right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:42):
Pretty much everybody in the community knows
us.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:44):
Alright.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:44):
Um and it's been a lot of fun.
No, a lot of trial and errorwith things, but I think we've
kind of gotten it down to likewe can unload quickly, set up,
get done.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:54):
We can dance with science.

SPEAKER_09 (01:00:55):
Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:56):
All right.
Now, knowing all of this, youhappen to have seen a problem in
the community, you think?
Well, we are I don't want to saya problem, but an issue that
should be addressed.

SPEAKER_09 (01:01:07):
Yes, definitely.
Um being part practitioners ofthe Norse path, um, one of the
things that we notice is that alot of white supremacists, uh
racists, they like to usesymbols that they just take from
other places, as we've seenthrough history.
Um and more recently, peoplegoing around carrying Nazi flags

(01:01:31):
right next to rune flags, andyou know, claiming to be Viking
and all this other stuff, andhow it's you can't be Viking if
you're not white.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:40):
And it's very difficult to be pagan and use
certain symbols without anybacklash.

SPEAKER_09 (01:01:46):
Exactly.
There's like a whole list ofthem.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:48):
So all right, in which again, I think the symbols
need to be redeemed back to whatthey were.

SPEAKER_09 (01:01:56):
Yeah, we need them back.
They're they're not they're notto be used for hate.
I don't know which other don't.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:01):
So but you started this program.
So tell me about this program.

SPEAKER_09 (01:02:04):
What what is I wouldn't say necessarily it's a
program so much as just we wesaw this and we were just like,
you know what?
I saw on Facebook Thor hatesracists.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:13):
Right.

SPEAKER_09 (01:02:14):
And I reached out to them and I asked if I could use
their symbolism when we werevending because our community,
we wanted to make sure that inthe Norse community at least, it
was very apparent that we didnot support that.
We would not accept racists, wewould not that were intolerant
of intolerance.
Right.
So and they said, yeah,absolutely.

(01:02:35):
So if you see our booth, you'llsee a poster in the back that
says Freya hates racists.
It was their design there, and Iused it with their permission,
and bottom it even says used bypermission.
Um, and from that it just kindof spiraled into I started
seeing things like you know,none no Nazis in Valhalla, and
I'm like, oh, I can make asticker for that.
I'm a graphic designer by trade.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:55):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (01:02:55):
Um and I did, uh Freya hates racists, I turned
that into a bumper sticker.
And the no Nazis in Valhalla,he's called the all father, not
the some father.
Um, and people really, reallylike the bumper stickers, but
being where we are, a lot ofpeople were a little hesitant to
put a big, huge bumper stickerlike that on their car.
So I started making littletwo-inch round stickers that we

(01:03:16):
just give out when we'revending, um, of all of those,
just to say we we feel verystrongly about the message and
we want it everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:25):
Has anybody started to ask for bigger stickers yet?

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:28):
Um no, actually, more recently we've been selling
more of the bumper stickers.
And which is a little surprisingconsidering how everything has
been lately.
I would think people would be alittle more hesitant, but people
are more vocal about it, and I'mjust like, I'm all for it.
Go for it.
Great.
Yeah.
Um, and I'm just I run out ofthe little giveaway stickers.

(01:03:50):
We did Renfair a couple weeksago, and we literally ran out of
all of them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:54):
So I'm assuming the overall response to the
campaign.
I guess I guess that's thecampaign y'all we're doing is
has actually been receivedpositive.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:02):
Yeah, people absolutely love it.
People love the idea.
They come in, they tell us, I'mso glad that you do this.
You know, I'm glad that there'speople that say this that are
standing up for this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
Um Have you heard from the opposite of the I gotta
I'm sorry, I do have to ask thequestion because as Monday next
one is have you had any backlashor well we have a three by five,
three by five, two by six, avery large um pride flag hanging
in the back of our booth.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:29):
So we haven't really had people walk in that aren't
open-minded, that aren't goingto be accepting of what we're
saying.
We make it very apparent that ifyou are that type of a person,
you will not feel comfortable inhere because we won't allow
racists and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:48):
Now, again, in that situation, and again, situations
like this, no, I don't expectthat here.

SPEAKER_09 (01:04:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:53):
All right.
Online, have you seen anybacklash to some of the things
you're promoting on this?

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:01):
No, and our Facebook page, we do have a lot of things
posted about, you know, verystrongly with all of this, you
know, anti-hate, um, and havenever had any kind of a backlash
on that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:14):
Not one of them, sure, but thankfully.

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:17):
Um, but I mean we're not, you know, nationally
broadcast anywhere, so it's notwe're probably not on a lot of
people's radar.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:24):
So now yeah, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:28):
But hopefully hopefully it'll make pe just get
people to understand that it'sjust we don't tolerate hate.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:35):
What what what would you like people to get from your
message mainly?
Uh most of all.

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:41):
Most of all is that first and foremost, pagans are
different, but I've alwaysthought the idea that there are
many paths to the top of themountain.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:50):
Right.

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:51):
No one path is right, no one path is wrong.
Just get to the top of themountain however you feel
comfortable.
But for us specifically, withthe Norse path, it's we will not
allow people to co-opt it forhate.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:05):
I I completely agree with you there.
You know, that's that's a littlebit different for me.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:09):
So well, thank you so much.
I really appreciate um givingthis, given being given this
opportunity.
I appreciate it very much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:17):
I hope the message gets out there and more people
will help and pick it up.
Definitely continue on.
It would be nice to know thathalfway across the country
someone's doing the same thingnow.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:28):
And not just in the city.
I pull up, someone pulls up nextto me next uh at a stoplight,
and they're like, hey, twocrafty ravens, because we have
it on the back of our vehicles,you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:38):
So how can people get in touch with you or um
check out your products?

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:43):
We are on Facebook.
Our Facebook page is the numbertwo, Crafty Ravens.
Um we do also have a websitethat's two spelled out, TWO,
Crafty Ravens.
Um, it's kind of underconstruction, so it may or may
not be updated, but Facebook isalways updated with um events
that we're doing, thoughts thatwe have, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:02):
All right.
Well, I hope you get somefollowers off of this.

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:05):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:07):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:09):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Peg and Coffee Talk is broughtto you by Life Temple and
Seminary.
Please visit us at life templeseminary.org for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
Discord, Twitter, YouTube, andReddit.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:27):
We travel down this trodden path, a maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of ourdays, so walk with me till
morning breaks, and so it is theend of our days, so walk with me

(01:07:54):
till morning breaks.