February 12, 2025 • 20 mins
What happens when our quirks and obsessions aren't just our own, but inherited from our spiritual mentors? On this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, Lady Alba and Lord Night embark on a fascinating journey into the world of spiritual initiation and its uncanny ability to shape personal traits. We share compelling stories that reveal how seemingly obsessive-compulsive tendencies can emerge from the deep bonds within spiritual communities. It's a curious blend of reverence and routine, prompting us to ask whether these quirks amplify or mellow our natural inclinations. With a touch of humor, we reflect on the everyday annoyances, like that annoyingly crooked picture frame, that keep us on our toes.
Moving beyond personal reflection, our conversation turns to the intricate dance of social etiquette within religious traditions. A story about a son-in-law's abrupt goodbyes becomes a springboard into a broader dialogue about the social expectations woven into various religious practices. Our shared love for coffee keeps the atmosphere lively and relatable. Join us for an episode filled with insights, laughter, and a few eye-opening revelations.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyAbba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So, lord Knight, with your coffee, would you like a
slice of witchcraft, with someOCD on the side?
Sure, okay, what the hell doesthat even mean?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Well, let's admit it, when we get initiated,
sometimes we seem to pick up theocd from our elders I think we
pick up a lot of things from ourelders after initiation um I
mean, this is not the normaluncontrolled ocd it's.
This is a very controlled thing, but I don't.
(01:01):
We just seem to becomeobsessive about certain things
after initiation.
Well, and it's random fordifferent people.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
But Well, I think okay, so let's.
Let's unpack this the same way.
We know, the genetics and DNAand traits are passed down right
from parents to children, RightFrom parents to children.
We believe that at initiation,you will adopt, inherit, Right.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Traits, yeah, be infected by Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Traits from your spiritual parents Right, and it
is no secret that there is acertain amount of discipline and
order that it takes to be apriest or priestess in this
craft, especially as the degreesgo up right.
Thirds tend to be prettyparticular.
(01:58):
Yeah, and it sort of startsthis cycle or habit where, yeah,
our spiritual children start todisplay some of these behaviors
.
Yeah, oh sure, becomes weird,or maybe not weird, but where it
(02:29):
becomes strange to people onthe outside is when they observe
this and then it it seeminglyis kind of culty.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, from an outsider looking in.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's like, oh, they all drank the same kool-aid.
Well, kind of, but you do, youwould look.
I can only whether you believethat it is an actual side effect
of initiation or it is just thebyproduct of a group of people
(02:59):
being very close to one anotherfor a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Spend any amount of time around someone else.
There is bound to be something,yeah, that you will adopt from
them, right?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Over the years, I know a lot of people who had
step-parents and they wind uplooking more like their
step-parent or acting like them.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
My daughter and I joke all the time when, whenever
she has something that evenremotely resembles something of
mine, must be the genetics Right, right, even though I did not
give birth to this person.
But yeah, we'll joke that it'sthe genetics Right?
(03:42):
Yeah, because we do, we are,we're primates.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
We see the other monkey do something Right.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We see the other monkey do it enough times.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We're going to do it too.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We're going to do it Right, I think.
Where it sometimes weirdspeople out, though, is when they
are newly initiated and it'sjust sort of happening right.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, you suddenly become obsessed with buying
boxes.
I have to have that box.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Anything could be any number of things.
It could be a subject, a topic,uh, it could be a food, um, a
song.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I mean I don't know how many elders just making
their toast over the years andthen to stand there and watch
myself do the exact same thing,knowing I'll probably sit there
and do the same thing that thatelder did.
No, no, no.
You have to do it exactly like.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And then part of me wonders if it's just reverence
right.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Is it influenced by the fact that we respect this
person enough, we honor themenough that we go?
You know what?
If that was good enough forLord Min, why isn't it good
enough for me?
I'm going to do it that wayfrom now on.
It's not hurting me any.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I don't, I don't know .
I do see where I thinksometimes the OCD thing can
actually flip for some people.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Meaning if you were kind of OCD already and then
you're initiated, it sort ofturns that up.
No, I think it turns it downfor some people.
You think it turns it down.
Yeah, that up.
No, I think it turns it downfor some people.
Yeah, I've seen it turn it downwhere people are able to
abandon some of theirpre-existing proclivities.
Okay, yeah, and mind you, we'realso using ocd in a very loose
(05:36):
term.
We're not using it as theclinical true definition of an
obsessive compulsive disorderand we know that that's not
entirely PC to do.
But yeah, we are using itcolloquially just to mean being
particular.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean there is.
We are difficult, thoughthere's no doubt about that.
Thirds are the worst.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know, because I find myself doing all sorts of
things, I find myself countingthings yeah, for no reason.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
We're almost I like to think that for myself, right.
I'm so in tune with myenvironment If I'm in my home.
Right tune with my environment.
If I'm in my home, right, Iknow all the little things, the
(06:34):
little oddities, right.
So to me it's like okay, here'sa prime example.
Drives me crazy when peopleslam my front door.
Okay, and I don't mean in angeror anything, I mean like
literally people that are justheavy handed and they kind of
slam the front door.
Whenever that happens, I cringebecause I hear it, I feel the
vibration through the house,right, and I immediately go God
(07:00):
damn it.
The picture on the staircaseabout a third of the way up is
now crooked.
God damn it.
The picture on the staircaseabout a third of the way up is
now crooked.
I don't even have to look at it.
I know that the picture is nowslanted.
Yes, yeah, because I'm just intune with the environment.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
So it drives me batty when people do that and I'm
like don't slam the door Becauseyou're going around in your
head knowing that picture'scrooked, I'm going to have to
climb up there.
Be gentle, just close the doornicely like a nice person.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's all, yeah, it's.
We tend to be a little gentler,a little easier impact wise and
I don't not everyone conductsthemselves that way right,
people are sometimes still justkind of like a big obtrusive
presence.
I feel like we learn to walkand do just a little bit lighter
(08:01):
.
Okay, you, you know what I mean, because to me that is part of
craft training.
We learn that sometimes agentle breeze.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Is more effective.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Right Than some sort of torrent of wind 75 mile an
hour gusts Right, and so when weencounter people who are very
forceful, yeah, that can be alittle rough.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
A little rough.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah, but yes, counting is another one Hoarding
.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Hoarding oh Lord.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But hoarding in very, again, very specific ways, like
it's not, you know, hoardinglike my whole house, like it's
like I hoard bottle caps.
I have a box and anytime I havea bottle cap, the bottle cap
goes in the bin.
Sometimes I take out my bottlecaps and I like to look at them
and I like to touch them.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I this is not me, I don't have a collection of
bottle caps, I'm just makingsomething up.
But it could be like that yeah,there's something that you know
, and it's always something thatyou can have in a quantity, and
it's a little horrid.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're not breaking a bank or anything.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
No, no, why do you do that?
I don't know.
I don't know, I just like it.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I like my boxes.
The boxes are good to me.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, we suddenly start finding ourselves doing
tasks that we know have aslightly easier way, the harder
way, intentionally.
Yeah, there's have a slightlyeasier way, the harder way
intentionally.
Yeah, there's no logic, there'sno rhyme or reason, and often
we are the ones to say worksmarter, not harder, but
sometimes we will choose.
(09:45):
No, I think I do want to sandthat by hand.
Why?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
do it anyway, do it anyway, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So I mean, this is a phenomenon, this is something
that goes on on occasion yeah,and again, I don't think some
first degrees are very aware ofit happening yes very aware,
like they know as it's takingplace.
They're like what is happeningto me and that's when we get
(10:16):
phone calls at all hours of theday and night and some of them,
no, not even aware.
No, we see it a lot too with,oh, the filter, the mouth filter
.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yes, yeah, it starts to disappear.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Oh yeah, big time the filter, the mouth filter.
Yes, yeah, it starts todisappear.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Oh yeah, big time, and especially when you're more
the.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
The more comfortable situations you're in, the less
you have that filter oh, yeah,yeah um, and then there's the
one that I think can be the mostchallenging for families, which
is that, all of a sudden, theinitiate starts expecting other
(10:59):
people to live up to the samestandards of conduct that the
witches do yeah good luck withthat.
Good luck with that, because ifyou can get a family to not
operate on pagan standard time,let me know.
Um, yeah, it's hard.
It's hard, yeah, um, you know,there's all of a sudden you know
(11:21):
, keeping your word being ontime basic courtesies become
very, very important.
Do you find that we are more orless tolerant in relation to
children?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I think we're more tolerant of children Interesting
.
Because, again, I sort of thinkwe enjoy the chaos.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
We enjoy somebody else being in the chaos
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And I'm sorry and I like it with kids, because kids
seem to have more fun in thechaos.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, sure.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Of course they do.
Oh, of course.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Because they don't know enough to be concerned by
it.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
When we're in the chaos, we're aggravated and
annoyed.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, yeah, and we're slightly fearful and we're like
how do I safeguard from this?
But yeah, kids are like la, la,la, um, how do I safeguard from
this?
But yeah, kids are like uh.
But I do think in some waysthough, where I find it is the
mundane, the expectations, right, I have this expectation that
(12:29):
people are going to behave acertain way.
I have had an instance nowtwice with, I'm going to say, my
son-in-law and if my daughter'shearing this, she's going to be
both horrified, shocked andthen probably also laugh.
The last two times I've seenhim that they have come into
(12:55):
town or visited.
He's just left without sayinggoodbye.
He just sort of goes huh, yeahpeople.
So you know the old term, theirish goodbye yeah, yeah he just
that's kind of him, he just he,I don't know, I'm not going to
speak for him, I'm not going tomake assumptions, but he just
kind of is like okay, and likewalks out the door like that's
(13:17):
it, like they're leaving.
He knows he's going to be back.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right, it's not like I'm never going to see him again
, but there's no like deliberate, you know, like it was good to
see you.
Ok, bye.
You know, none of that,something in me, the third
degree kind of wells up and islike you, son of a bitch, you
just walked down my door anddidn't say goodbye to me and
(13:42):
like I have a mental tally, I'mlike that's twice now because,
if you if you're not sure.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Protocol for coming in and doing temple function is.
You're the first person,everyone first and last.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, priestess is always the first and the last to
be greeted and, in the absenceof a priestess, it's the high
priest, but it still, yeah.
It just gives me that momentand I'm like am I being
ridiculous or am I?
Yeah, am I holding him to astandard?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
that isn't fair or that he doesn't know about that
too right, and so these can beinteresting yes yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
But I also see where some of our other elders you
know, because they are so awareof it and they've been around
for so they're like, yeah, whocares?
Protocol schmortical and therest of us are like don't mess
it up.
And the elders just couldn'tcare, they're totally fine about
(14:41):
the whole thing because theyknow.
They know that you cannotexpect everyone to be held to
the same standard yeah.
But we still try to be preparedanyway.
So yeah, but we do, we have a.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
It is a funny thing that happens at craft.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
There's a very vigilant sense of right or wrong
.
Yes, with craft, you know, anda and a sense of right or wrong,
do or don't, yeah, conduct allof it Like we.
And because it is it, it is, itis somewhat all-consuming for
(15:19):
us we, we tend to put everythingunder that microscope of right.
Is this craft conduct?
Is this craft behavior?
Is this acceptable?
Is it right?
Yeah, but that is an OCD stylebehavior.
I mean, that's very militant.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I mean but is this not?
Is this common?
But this doesn't seem to becommon in all traditions in all
religions?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
No, definitely not.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So again I don't know .
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Orthodox Jews.
Wow, they got us beat, let metell you.
Let me tell you, the OrthodoxJews there is so much.
There's so many layers ofconduct, of do and don't, and
(16:14):
it's fascinating.
And unfortunately, I think,when you're dealing with
something like that, when peopleare unaccustomed to it or don't
know it, they see it ascontrolling or they see it as an
you know why would you do that?
And it's like wait a minute,wait a minute, don't make
assumptions.
Assumptions, it's notcontrolling.
If someone has agreed to adoptthat way of life because it
(16:38):
suits them.
I did find something reallyinteresting not that long ago
about the muslim tradition thatI did not know.
This, you know, there's stillthis wide-held, held Western
belief that Muslim women areproperty, right, right, and that
they are controlled by theirspouse, and I didn't know that
(17:04):
that is not the case for thegrand majority.
Great little docu-series onNetflix right now, and it's out
of Australia, it's called youCan't Ask that.
And it's all these littlemarginalized groups, right?
And I caught the episode onMuslims and there was a group of
Muslim husbands right, muslimmen being interviewed and they
(17:27):
were like let me tell yousomething, what?
What the money that I make goesto her.
Whatever money she makes ishers.
Yeah, they actually are more ofa matriarchy than we realize
that a lot of times, marriagesand the family really it's based
(17:51):
on her lineage and herfinancial success and economic,
not his.
I was like holy cow who knew,um, yeah, so it's only a very
small, small group that that wesee in that oppressive way.
The majority of them, yeah, theMuslim men, are like I don't,
(18:13):
she has all the control, she hasall the power, she makes all
the decisions.
I just sit here and go yes,dear, I thought that was.
I was like, wow, so, yeah, wedon't always know.
We can see rules as being a badthing when in fact they're not
(18:34):
necessarily.
I know you caught that articlethat I posted recently to the uh
temple discord yes yeah, and,and I it was the entire headline
, summed up the article.
It was basically a burial groundfound in England where the
headline was you know, ancientCeltic burial ground proves
(18:56):
societies were more matriarchal.
And I'm like duh, duh, we'veknown this, we've known this for
a really long time.
Where were you guys and I?
Just thought that was kind ofcute, but you know.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Go figure.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I also think what happens after first degree is
that we tend to embrace theorder more.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Right, yeah, you've made that achievement.
You don't feel like you're at abeginning?
Yeah, yeah.
And it's easier to embrace that.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
One thing we are obsessed with Coffee, coffee.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook
Discord the maze of stone andmire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres, and so
(20:16):
it is the end of our day, sowalk with me till morning breaks
.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyAbba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So, lord Knight, with your coffee, would you like a
slice of witchcraft, with someOCD on the side?
Sure, okay, what the hell doesthat even mean?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Well, let's admit it, when we get initiated,
sometimes we seem to pick up theocd from our elders I think we
pick up a lot of things from ourelders after initiation um I
mean, this is not the normaluncontrolled ocd it's.
This is a very controlled thing, but I don't.
(01:01):
We just seem to becomeobsessive about certain things
after initiation.
Well, and it's random fordifferent people.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
But Well, I think okay, so let's.
Let's unpack this the same way.
We know, the genetics and DNAand traits are passed down right
from parents to children, RightFrom parents to children.
We believe that at initiation,you will adopt, inherit, Right.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
Traits, yeah, be infected by Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Traits from your spiritual parents Right, and it
is no secret that there is acertain amount of discipline and
order that it takes to be apriest or priestess in this
craft, especially as the degreesgo up right.
Thirds tend to be prettyparticular.
(01:58):
Yeah, and it sort of startsthis cycle or habit where, yeah,
our spiritual children start todisplay some of these behaviors
.
Yeah, oh sure, becomes weird,or maybe not weird, but where it
(02:29):
becomes strange to people onthe outside is when they observe
this and then it it seeminglyis kind of culty.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, from an outsider looking in.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's like, oh, they all drank the same kool-aid.
Well, kind of, but you do, youwould look.
I can only whether you believethat it is an actual side effect
of initiation or it is just thebyproduct of a group of people
(02:59):
being very close to one anotherfor a long period of time.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Spend any amount of time around someone else.
There is bound to be something,yeah, that you will adopt from
them, right?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Over the years, I know a lot of people who had
step-parents and they wind uplooking more like their
step-parent or acting like them.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
My daughter and I joke all the time when, whenever
she has something that evenremotely resembles something of
mine, must be the genetics Right, right, even though I did not
give birth to this person.
But yeah, we'll joke that it'sthe genetics Right?
(03:42):
Yeah, because we do, we are,we're primates.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
We see the other monkey do something Right.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We see the other monkey do it enough times.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We're going to do it too.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We're going to do it Right, I think.
Where it sometimes weirdspeople out, though, is when they
are newly initiated and it'sjust sort of happening right.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, you suddenly become obsessed with buying
boxes.
I have to have that box.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Anything could be any number of things.
It could be a subject, a topic,uh, it could be a food, um, a
song.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I mean I don't know how many elders just making
their toast over the years andthen to stand there and watch
myself do the exact same thing,knowing I'll probably sit there
and do the same thing that thatelder did.
No, no, no.
You have to do it exactly like.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And then part of me wonders if it's just reverence
right.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Is it influenced by the fact that we respect this
person enough, we honor themenough that we go?
You know what?
If that was good enough forLord Min, why isn't it good
enough for me?
I'm going to do it that wayfrom now on.
It's not hurting me any.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I don't, I don't know .
I do see where I thinksometimes the OCD thing can
actually flip for some people.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Meaning if you were kind of OCD already and then
you're initiated, it sort ofturns that up.
No, I think it turns it downfor some people.
You think it turns it down.
Yeah, that up.
No, I think it turns it downfor some people.
Yeah, I've seen it turn it downwhere people are able to
abandon some of theirpre-existing proclivities.
Okay, yeah, and mind you, we'realso using ocd in a very loose
(05:36):
term.
We're not using it as theclinical true definition of an
obsessive compulsive disorderand we know that that's not
entirely PC to do.
But yeah, we are using itcolloquially just to mean being
particular.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean there is.
We are difficult, thoughthere's no doubt about that.
Thirds are the worst.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know, because I find myself doing all sorts of
things, I find myself countingthings yeah, for no reason.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
We're almost I like to think that for myself, right.
I'm so in tune with myenvironment If I'm in my home.
Right tune with my environment.
If I'm in my home, right, Iknow all the little things, the
(06:34):
little oddities, right.
So to me it's like okay, here'sa prime example.
Drives me crazy when peopleslam my front door.
Okay, and I don't mean in angeror anything, I mean like
literally people that are justheavy handed and they kind of
slam the front door.
Whenever that happens, I cringebecause I hear it, I feel the
vibration through the house,right, and I immediately go God
(07:00):
damn it.
The picture on the staircaseabout a third of the way up is
now crooked.
God damn it.
The picture on the staircaseabout a third of the way up is
now crooked.
I don't even have to look at it.
I know that the picture is nowslanted.
Yes, yeah, because I'm just intune with the environment.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
So it drives me batty when people do that and I'm
like don't slam the door Becauseyou're going around in your
head knowing that picture'scrooked, I'm going to have to
climb up there.
Be gentle, just close the doornicely like a nice person.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's all, yeah, it's.
We tend to be a little gentler,a little easier impact wise and
I don't not everyone conductsthemselves that way right,
people are sometimes still justkind of like a big obtrusive
presence.
I feel like we learn to walkand do just a little bit lighter
(08:01):
.
Okay, you, you know what I mean, because to me that is part of
craft training.
We learn that sometimes agentle breeze.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Is more effective.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Right Than some sort of torrent of wind 75 mile an
hour gusts Right, and so when weencounter people who are very
forceful, yeah, that can be alittle rough.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
A little rough.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yeah, but yes, counting is another one Hoarding
.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Hoarding oh Lord.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But hoarding in very, again, very specific ways, like
it's not, you know, hoardinglike my whole house, like it's
like I hoard bottle caps.
I have a box and anytime I havea bottle cap, the bottle cap
goes in the bin.
Sometimes I take out my bottlecaps and I like to look at them
and I like to touch them.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I this is not me, I don't have a collection of
bottle caps, I'm just makingsomething up.
But it could be like that yeah,there's something that you know
, and it's always something thatyou can have in a quantity, and
it's a little horrid.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're not breaking a bank or anything.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
No, no, why do you do that?
I don't know.
I don't know, I just like it.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
I like my boxes.
The boxes are good to me.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, we suddenly start finding ourselves doing
tasks that we know have aslightly easier way, the harder
way, intentionally.
Yeah, there's have a slightlyeasier way, the harder way
intentionally.
Yeah, there's no logic, there'sno rhyme or reason, and often
we are the ones to say worksmarter, not harder, but
sometimes we will choose.
(09:45):
No, I think I do want to sandthat by hand.
Why?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
do it anyway, do it anyway, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
So I mean, this is a phenomenon, this is something
that goes on on occasion yeah,and again, I don't think some
first degrees are very aware ofit happening yes very aware,
like they know as it's takingplace.
They're like what is happeningto me and that's when we get
(10:16):
phone calls at all hours of theday and night and some of them,
no, not even aware.
No, we see it a lot too with,oh, the filter, the mouth filter
.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yes, yeah, it starts to disappear.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Oh yeah, big time the filter, the mouth filter.
Yes, yeah, it starts todisappear.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Oh yeah, big time, and especially when you're more
the.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
The more comfortable situations you're in, the less
you have that filter oh, yeah,yeah um, and then there's the
one that I think can be the mostchallenging for families, which
is that, all of a sudden, theinitiate starts expecting other
(10:59):
people to live up to the samestandards of conduct that the
witches do yeah good luck withthat.
Good luck with that, because ifyou can get a family to not
operate on pagan standard time,let me know.
Um, yeah, it's hard.
It's hard, yeah, um, you know,there's all of a sudden you know
(11:21):
, keeping your word being ontime basic courtesies become
very, very important.
Do you find that we are more orless tolerant in relation to
children?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I think we're more tolerant of children Interesting
.
Because, again, I sort of thinkwe enjoy the chaos.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
We enjoy somebody else being in the chaos
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And I'm sorry and I like it with kids, because kids
seem to have more fun in thechaos.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, sure.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Of course they do.
Oh, of course.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Because they don't know enough to be concerned by
it.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
When we're in the chaos, we're aggravated and
annoyed.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, yeah, and we're slightly fearful and we're like
how do I safeguard from this?
But yeah, kids are like la, la,la, um, how do I safeguard from
this?
But yeah, kids are like uh.
But I do think in some waysthough, where I find it is the
mundane, the expectations, right, I have this expectation that
(12:29):
people are going to behave acertain way.
I have had an instance nowtwice with, I'm going to say, my
son-in-law and if my daughter'shearing this, she's going to be
both horrified, shocked andthen probably also laugh.
The last two times I've seenhim that they have come into
(12:55):
town or visited.
He's just left without sayinggoodbye.
He just sort of goes huh, yeahpeople.
So you know the old term, theirish goodbye yeah, yeah he just
that's kind of him, he just he,I don't know, I'm not going to
speak for him, I'm not going tomake assumptions, but he just
kind of is like okay, and likewalks out the door like that's
(13:17):
it, like they're leaving.
He knows he's going to be back.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right, it's not like I'm never going to see him again
, but there's no like deliberate, you know, like it was good to
see you.
Ok, bye.
You know, none of that,something in me, the third
degree kind of wells up and islike you, son of a bitch, you
just walked down my door anddidn't say goodbye to me and
(13:42):
like I have a mental tally, I'mlike that's twice now because,
if you if you're not sure.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Protocol for coming in and doing temple function is.
You're the first person,everyone first and last.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, priestess is always the first and the last to
be greeted and, in the absenceof a priestess, it's the high
priest, but it still, yeah.
It just gives me that momentand I'm like am I being
ridiculous or am I?
Yeah, am I holding him to astandard?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
that isn't fair or that he doesn't know about that
too right, and so these can beinteresting yes yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
But I also see where some of our other elders you
know, because they are so awareof it and they've been around
for so they're like, yeah, whocares?
Protocol schmortical and therest of us are like don't mess
it up.
And the elders just couldn'tcare, they're totally fine about
(14:41):
the whole thing because theyknow.
They know that you cannotexpect everyone to be held to
the same standard yeah.
But we still try to be preparedanyway.
So yeah, but we do, we have a.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
It is a funny thing that happens at craft.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
There's a very vigilant sense of right or wrong
.
Yes, with craft, you know, anda and a sense of right or wrong,
do or don't, yeah, conduct allof it Like we.
And because it is it, it is, itis somewhat all-consuming for
(15:19):
us we, we tend to put everythingunder that microscope of right.
Is this craft conduct?
Is this craft behavior?
Is this acceptable?
Is it right?
Yeah, but that is an OCD stylebehavior.
I mean, that's very militant.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I mean but is this not?
Is this common?
But this doesn't seem to becommon in all traditions in all
religions?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
No, definitely not.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So again I don't know .
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Orthodox Jews.
Wow, they got us beat, let metell you.
Let me tell you, the OrthodoxJews there is so much.
There's so many layers ofconduct, of do and don't, and
(16:14):
it's fascinating.
And unfortunately, I think,when you're dealing with
something like that, when peopleare unaccustomed to it or don't
know it, they see it ascontrolling or they see it as an
you know why would you do that?
And it's like wait a minute,wait a minute, don't make
assumptions.
Assumptions, it's notcontrolling.
If someone has agreed to adoptthat way of life because it
(16:38):
suits them.
I did find something reallyinteresting not that long ago
about the muslim tradition thatI did not know.
This, you know, there's stillthis wide-held, held Western
belief that Muslim women areproperty, right, right, and that
they are controlled by theirspouse, and I didn't know that
(17:04):
that is not the case for thegrand majority.
Great little docu-series onNetflix right now, and it's out
of Australia, it's called youCan't Ask that.
And it's all these littlemarginalized groups, right?
And I caught the episode onMuslims and there was a group of
Muslim husbands right, muslimmen being interviewed and they
(17:27):
were like let me tell yousomething, what?
What the money that I make goesto her.
Whatever money she makes ishers.
Yeah, they actually are more ofa matriarchy than we realize
that a lot of times, marriagesand the family really it's based
(17:51):
on her lineage and herfinancial success and economic,
not his.
I was like holy cow who knew,um, yeah, so it's only a very
small, small group that that wesee in that oppressive way.
The majority of them, yeah, theMuslim men, are like I don't,
(18:13):
she has all the control, she hasall the power, she makes all
the decisions.
I just sit here and go yes,dear, I thought that was.
I was like, wow, so, yeah, wedon't always know.
We can see rules as being a badthing when in fact they're not
(18:34):
necessarily.
I know you caught that articlethat I posted recently to the uh
temple discord yes yeah, and,and I it was the entire headline
, summed up the article.
It was basically a burial groundfound in England where the
headline was you know, ancientCeltic burial ground proves
(18:56):
societies were more matriarchal.
And I'm like duh, duh, we'veknown this, we've known this for
a really long time.
Where were you guys and I?
Just thought that was kind ofcute, but you know.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Go figure.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I also think what happens after first degree is
that we tend to embrace theorder more.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Right, yeah, you've made that achievement.
You don't feel like you're at abeginning?
Yeah, yeah.
And it's easier to embrace that.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
One thing we are obsessed with Coffee, coffee.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook
Discord the maze of stone andmire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres, and so
(20:16):
it is the end of our day, sowalk with me till morning breaks
.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
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