April 23, 2025 • 27 mins
What lies at "the end of desire"? This intriguing line from the Charge of the Goddess—"I am that which is attained at the end of desire"—sends us on an exploration of desire itself, from basic survival instincts to our most complex spiritual longings.
Desire powers our most essential functions. Yet desire can also transform into greed, obsession, and attachment when left unexamined. As we navigate challenging economic times, the distinction between genuine needs and mere wants becomes increasingly crucial. How do we honor necessary desires while preventing others from overwhelming our spiritual growth?
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we consider whether ancient gods might actually have been extraterrestrial visitors. Could stories like the arrival of the Tuatha Dé Danann or ancient hieroglyphs depicting strange objects in the sky be evidence of alien contact? More provocatively, if gods once directly interfered in human affairs but later stepped back, what does this suggest about humanity's spiritual development?
Throughout our discussion, one theme remains constant: the importance of self-honesty. We must recognize when we're gaslighting ourselves about what we truly need versus what we merely want. The witch's admonition to "know thyself" becomes essential guidance, with meditation serving as our most powerful tool for developing this awareness. By confronting our desires honestly, we begin the journey toward understanding what truly awaits us at the end of desire—whether that's reunion with divine energies after death or moments of tranquility within this lifetime.
What do you believe awaits at the end of desire? We'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
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Pagan coffee talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
So, lord knight, we had thistopic come up, and not too long
ago, right, right how do youwant to start this?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
well, there's a document that we use, and it's
pretty much read almost everyfull moon or sabbath or whatever
.
It's called the charge of thegoddess Right.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So my curiosity is something that's said at the end
of this document, which readsthe following For behold, I have
been with you from thebeginning, and I am that which
is attained at the end of desire.
What is the?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
end of desire.
Well, what is desire and whatdo you obtain at the end of
desire?
These are the questions I have.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
All right, so let's try to examine this.
Let's start with what is desire.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, I mean, you know most people have a desire
to live.
Okay, All right, I meanbiological functions.
You, you what you get?
Someone smothers you or you'reunderwater.
You fight like hell to get towhere you can breathe again.
Yes, you do, and it seems to beautomatic, like the whole
(01:37):
entire um, what is that?
The uh diving reaction?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
oh, what is that called?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
where it can, where it like, resets your heart rate
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Because this is such a shock to the body.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
It's not a volunteer control thing.
No, it's not.
So again, is that not desire?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, I would say it is.
I'd say it's a form of desire,right, so let's look.
A form of desire, right, solet's look.
Uh, cambridge dictionarydefines desire as well.
Not quite what we're lookingfor, but okay, to have a strong
sexual attraction to someone.
Not quite what we're going forhere yeah, but a strong feeling
(02:20):
that you want something.
The strong feeling that youwant something, the strong
feeling that you have to havesomething, as in the object of
someone's desire To wantsomething strongly Right.
So, yes, it's just to want.
(02:41):
Well, we all want but accordingto this.
This is a strong.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Right Again.
Like I was describing, thewanting to live is so strong in
us that our bodies automaticallydo it without us telling it to.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Right, okay, so now we know what desire is, so what
would be the end of desire?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Would that be death or would?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
it be tranquility.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, could it be peace.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
But how do you obtain that in this life?
Can you do that?
Can you manage that?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
well, say again, when you talk about things like know
, like I said about like thewhole living instinct, right, so
again, can you bypass that?
I really believe the only waywe can get past that is through
death.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, so if that's the case, then what truly is
obtained at the end of desireReunion?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
with the goddess Okay , and the goddess Okay, and the
gods I mean in essence.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But we believe in reincarnation.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
so Well, again just to return to the other side.
The idea is that the Forhowever long, for however long
the other side is there is noneed, there's no won't,
everything's just there.
Okay, you know again.
Side is there is no need,there's no one, everything's
just there.
Okay, you know again.
We're talking about the wholeland of plenty, true, summer
(04:13):
lands and stuff like this.
Living and desiring issupposedly supposed to be easier
in these places, because, well,it's just there, right, the
trees always bloom and give offfruit and food and hunting's
plentiful and there's no actualstruggle well and I think, I
(04:35):
think that's pretty commonthroughout most religions yeah
that when you die, you go to aplace where you want for nothing
.
Right, you have no desires,because all your desires are,
they're already met they'realready met Quite literally
everything.
Now I mean, I don't actuallybelieve this like that.
(04:58):
I believe you're going intomore of an energy state and you
don't need these things.
That's why desire ends there.
Okay, it's not required.
You don't have to eat on theother side, you just sort of
exist.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So basically I am that that is obtained at the end
of desire.
So it quite literally is areunion of energies Right Back
to the source for however longuntil we're reincarnated.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yes, I do not think ending desire in this state you
with me as a living, breathinghuman it's something we can
completely end.
Okay, because again you havethose basic desires.
I mean hunger is technically adesire.
Okay, because again you havethose basic desires.
(05:50):
I mean hunger is technically adesire, technically, depending
on how hungry you are.
Right, if you're hangry.
Well, so again, I'm like you.
I'd have to say yes.
What's attained at the end ofthe desire is death and rest.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So then, how do we manage our desires on this earth
so that they don't become greedor overwhelm?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
everything else Right To the exclusion of our own
spiritual growth Right.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
How do we manage that so that it's not an obsession?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Well, again, there's a difference between greed and
needs.
Well, yeah, I mean, because,again, we, we keep on talking in
our religion all over and overagain, when you have a need so
we just basically, we we have towe have to decide.
We have to decide what isnecessary versus what we just
(06:45):
won't.
Okay, all right.
I mean, let's be honest, megoing out and buying one of
those 50-foot skeletons to putout into the yard, that's not a
need.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
But it could be considered a want, a desire, a
desire or a want you.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Just because you desire something doesn't
necessarily make it a need.
But that's what I'm talkingabout.
How do we?
But yet all your needs aredesires okay, so we have to
again.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
We have to walk a fine line right and we have to
be cognitive of our own desiresversus needs, Right?
So again it comes back to knowthyself.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Know thyself, know thy needs Right.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So again, these One of my favorite phrases witch
know yourself.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
You're a damn witch.
Heal thyself already, come on,but you know but yeah, so okay,
that makes sense yeah, I meanbecause and me sitting here
saying that, yes, all your needsare desires I mean I've seen
people get up and hunt forglasses of water because they're
so thirsty, right, thattechnically, in that moment
(08:06):
becomes an overwhelming desire.
Okay, so again, all your needsdo turn into desires at some
point.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
But all your desires, like you said are not
necessarily needs.
And we have to distinguish thatRight, Otherwise we literally
run into the trap that we becomeobsessive about our desires
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
We become more obsessive and care more about
things that are farther awayfrom us than the things that we
should be caring about with us.
Okay, all right, you're moreconcerned about a rock out in
California?
or a tree out in California butyou're not worried about your
own backyard, Right?
That makes no sense to me, Well, no, we need to adjust our what
(08:55):
we can do on this.
What needs I mean?
Do you really need to, you know, protect a tree all the way out
and across the country?
One little tree, Right, whenyou know when?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
you know, I don't know about other people, right.
When you know when you know?
I don't know about other people, but we've got trees in our
backyard Right.
We should be caring about whichones are going to fall and hit
the house.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Right, or which ones we need to cut down so we can
get other trees to have moreroom for them to grow and be
more healthy, right so Eh, eh,and be more healthy, right so eh
.
Eh, but yeah, you know, again,pagan people, bless them.
(09:37):
We're all passionate people.
We are, yeah, but again we havea tendency to let that passion
override everything else.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, in some cases we do yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah and again, this is something we need to pull
back on.
We need to start to refocus onour families, on our temples, on
our community.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And there's any number of ways that you can do
that.
I think you need to start withfocusing on yourself and, like
we were just saying, anddefining, especially if you find
yourself in a position whereyou're having problems deciding
what to do, what you need versuswhat you want, then you need to
(10:22):
examine yourself and you needto be able to define that before
you can help take.
RuPaul said it best how in thehell are you going to love
somebody?
To define that before you canhelp take?
Rupaul said it best how in thehell are?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
you going to love somebody else if you can't love
yourself?
How are you going to helpsomebody else put their mask on
if you don't have yours on?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
If you don't know how to do it, you can't help
somebody else.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So I think that's where you need to start.
Yes, well, I could be wrong,it's just my opinion, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
you know, but I I mean, I'm sorry with the way the
economy is right now and blah,blah blah, and you people are
having to make choices betweenmedications and food right, all
right.
Or certain things and otherwhich shouldn't be the case All
right, which shouldn't be thecase.
But it is a good time for us tostart looking.
(11:13):
What do we actually need?
What are we wasting money onand time and effort on?
That's really not benefiting usin the long run.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Right, Especially when money's tight yes, when
money's tight start making somecuts.
What can we cut out?
Do we really need that steakdinner?
you know, I know some peoplewould argue well, yeah, I mean
we we all enjoy our steaks, butyou know it's, you know, you and
I, we, we've cut back the redmeat because it's just too damn
(11:47):
expensive.
Yeah, so it's not that we don'thave it and we don't enjoy it
because we do, but we just don'thave it as much.
No, you know, we stick with thecheaper meats and vegetables.
You know, we've started tryingto grow our own, yeah,
vegetables.
(12:07):
So you know, that kind of helps.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
More self-reliance Right.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So I mean again.
It comes back to what can youcut out, what can you do to
change?
Speaker 3 (12:16):
and help yourself financially.
Again, it's us sitting down andbeing honest with ourselves
about our desires.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
All right Again.
I'm not sitting there tellingyou to get on the world and tell
everybody everything in yourhead.
You need to at least be honestwith yourself, exactly all right
and again.
I keep on going back to thatover and over again you, we have
to start being honest withourselves.
I see so many times wherepeople aren't doing that.
They'll sit there and claim allthis other stuff.
(12:46):
But and you're looking, I'mgoing really, are you really
doing that right?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I have to do that to myself all the time because, I
will.
I will gaslight myself in aheartbeat like, oh you, you know
, I've I've been doing so good,and I've been doing this and
that, and I'll be like, and I'llsit back and I'll be like I've
been doing so good, I've beendoing so good on my diet this
whole entire time, I can eatthat one brownie Right.
Things like that.
(13:13):
Everybody needs a cheat day ontheir freaking diet.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh, no, no, no.
The majority of the times Ihear that is that's their fifth
brownie.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Oh, but you know, I'm just saying I do it to myself
and when I do it I eventuallysit back and I'll be like you're
just you're lying to yourselfand you're lying to everybody
else that you didn't do none ofthat.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
No.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And then I have to face up to it you know it is.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
That's definitely the hardest pill to swallow is when
you gaslight yourself, Lord, isit ever?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And as humans, we do it all the time.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Oh yeah, we.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Is it ever?
And as humans, we do it all thetime.
Oh yeah, we do it all the timeand again, it's something else
we have to be aware of.
I think that plays into knowingyour needs and your desires, as
well as knowing when you'refooling yourself.
Hence the reason meditation issuch a wonderful thing to do
(14:08):
absolutely I ain't said that ina while.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
No, you haven't.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Meditation, meditation what part don't y'all
understand?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
you got ready for some coffee, I believe.
So I saw a report the other dayall Mm-hmm.
All right, they have maybefound life on another planet.
There's completely, of course,it's too far away to actually
get luck, or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Of course it is.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Which then brings up this whole entire subject I've
been wanting to approach on thepodcast from a pagan point of
view.
What about aliens?
Aliens, all right Again, if welisten to the ancient alien
people, the whole story of thetwaffa day to non and how they
showed up, I have to admit tosome extent.
(14:56):
Yes, could sound like aspacecraft landing.
It could, considering the wholeentire thing was is that
there's a fog that came in fromnowhere?
for three days, once it itcleared there's this big city,
but then, on the other hand, Ihad to be this way.
Back then, what did theyconsider a big city?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Right, was it the size of a football field?
Two football fields, I mean.
Do you got like?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
a thousand people in town or something.
So I have to ask what do youthink?
Do we believe in aliens?
Do we believe that maybe thegods were actually ancient
aliens, or do we believe they'reactually gods like we've talked
about?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, I don't know that we can speak for the
community on that.
I don't think that we can.
I don't even think we can speakfor the coven on that.
I don't.
I don't think that we can.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I don't even think we can speak for the coven on that
no, I think that's well, it'san interesting thing, because
again, it is you, you hear thisstuff and again they're, they're
, they're approaching on some ofthe stuff because again, oh no,
no, thor was an alien andreally the thor's hammer was
this weapon right, well, and andyou look at the anunnaki right
and then you look at that, well,you look at the stuff from
(16:09):
India, from the oh, I forgotwhat the Vera documents, or
something.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's supposed to be diagrams of these flying mana
ships.
Well, and even Egyptianhieroglyphs depict spaceships
and maybe possible aliens, right?
So yeah, I mean, throughouthistory, we've got the stories,
we have the tales, even inChristian artwork, you see, what
(16:41):
looks appears to be spaceshipsin the sky, you know.
And all this other stuff, right, spaceships in the sky, you
know.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
And all this other stuff.
So, Now we already know.
First of all, let's state Firstof all most pagans I know we
believe our myths are nothingmore than myths, Right, All
right, that they're nice storiesthat basically there was a guy
named Hercules.
He was the strongest person inhis village.
People told the story over andover again to where he finally
(17:11):
had to become the son of a godand do all this magic.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, it's like that one uncle that caught the fish
and then, before you know it,it's a whale.
It's a whale, all right.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Right, so we see myths that way.
Could there have been aliensthat actually showed up
throughout time, into andinfluenced our myths and legends
about the gods?
Maybe not maybe not stand in asthe gods themselves, but right.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
well, I think it's entirely possible and I think I
think there is some truth if ifit is true right, like I kind of
want to believe it is.
If there's, if it is true, thenthere's probably also some
truth to the part of the taleswhere People didn't know what to
(18:00):
make of them, and so they sawthem as gods Right Because of
the knowledge they brought withthem, the technology, the
miracles that these people coulddo.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Well now, on the flip side of this I mean me
personally yeah, I believe atsome point that there were
beings that walked upon this, inthis realm ie like elementals
and stuff like this at a certainpoint in history, but for some
reason, when humanity gainedcertain things, they all seemed
(18:34):
to have ran away.
So I can't sit here and saythese 100% are aliens or
multidimensional creatures orRight or anything like this
either.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So Again open up to the realm of possibilities.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Because I mean, technically, we're still talking
about the same thing.
The only difference is our godscome from a different dimension
.
Right Of some type Right, sothose could still be considered
aliens.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
They could they very well could.
I don't know how other peoplefeel about that, though I don't
think it's something I've hearda lot of people talk about, but
it is an interesting question.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well, I mean because the way I look at it is you know
, a soul's a soul Doesn't matter.
All right, and especially onceyou're on the other side.
So again you're.
So are the gods in the samesense Right?
All right, of course they'repart of the source, but it's
there.
I'm sorry, never seen anythingin any pagan doctrine documents
(19:48):
that denounce the possibility ofother life on other planets,
like certain other religions,right?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
yeah, no, I don't think I've ever seen that, and
so.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So again, that's even even talking about this or
maybe even being a possibility.
I don't see as a big uproar inthe pagan community.
No, not really, not like youwould.
I mean, if you went andsuggested this type of idea to
the Christian community, yeah,you'd be getting hair ripped out
and people screaming.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I don't know that it'd go that far, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Heretic.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You know, maybe back in the early days of the church.
But yeah, Again, I like tothink that we are not alone in
this universe.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
That the gods have some other side projects going
on.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
We can't be their only concern.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
No.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
True, I mean, we're like ants on this planet today?
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I don't know.
There are some of us out therethat are arrogant enough to
believe.
Well true.
That they have completely theattention of the gods, them
themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Cornered the market on it, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I mean you do have people out there that are, quote
unquote, marian deities.
True, I mean I'm not wrongthere.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, so yeah, but I mean, I kind of look at that.
As you know, we, we are not themain, sole focus for our
deities.
No, we, we make petitions andthen they choose whether or not
to the way I look at.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It is the way I look at.
I think the gods have their ownplan for the world and how it's
going to go, and we're justsort of like running around like
little lemons for them.
At the end of the day, they'regoing to get their way.
They're going to push societyone way or another, based on
(21:41):
what they want or what's needed.
Okay, I can see that In thegrand scheme of things, I don't
think they're sitting therecontrolling each individual
person.
But you do believe that there'sa grand design, if you will, yes
, I mean I find it hard tobelieve yes, when I'm sitting
here and yes, I am looking atleaves and stuff like that that
(22:04):
there's not some grand plan.
There's a better architect thanus.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I do believe that there is a grand architect of
sorts, but I don't know that.
I believe necessarily thatthere's a grand scheme to things
, some great design for thisworld.
I think we're just, I thinkwe're kind of making of it what
we make of it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Well, I think we're doing that.
Like I said, in the broad sense, though, that's where I think
the gods play majority of thetimes.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
All right.
So I mean because I have to askthe question and according to
all the old myths of all thedifferent religions, at one
point gods used to interfere.
All the time.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
True.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And now they've suddenly stopped.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, why is that?
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
so I mean, if they were aliens, what made them stop
coming?
That's a good question.
What made these or even ifthese were beings like we're
spiritual beings like we'retalking about what made them
leave?
If they're not aliens and theyare spiritual beings like we
believe, I gotta ask thequestion what made them leave?
Right, because throughouthistory there was, there's
(23:19):
always been, more of a, you know, magic, mystery and god's
interfering with everybody, andbut now you don't see it any
days no, you don't.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
That kind of coincides with the whole grand
scheme of things.
Did we, did we reach a pointwhere they said, okay, we can
now.
Right, we've given youeverything you need.
We can now step back well.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, if we look at humanity like an actual person,
in those formidable years, yes,we needed the gods because we
were just kids, right, figuringthe world out.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right, but now we have a better grasp on things.
They're like okay, right.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Now y'all what?
The 13-year-old staying at homealone while the parents are off
working Right?
I mean, is that where we're atnow?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
That is food for thought.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
And what do we have to do to get their attention to?
I mean, do we really have tomess up that?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
For them to come back .
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Do we have to mess up ?
Do we have to be bad kids?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I don't know.
Now see, that question kind ofscares me, because now at this
point, if they come back, whatdid we fuck up, what?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
What did we do so yeah, that kind of concerns me a
little bit.
Definitely a different way ofthinking about all of this.
Yeah, it really is, but again,like I said, I've seen nothing
in any pagan tradition to Tocontradict.
I've seen nothing in any pagantradition to To contradict.
To contradict the fact thatthere may be aliens or people on
other worlds or anything likethat.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Well you know I mean, and the evidence is there.
It really is.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I'm not saying they're wrong, but their theory
is just as valid as ours.
Well, sure it is Again.
I can't knock them for theirbeliefs, but some of the points
that they make does make alittle bit of sense.
So it makes me wonder could itbe more of a 50-50 mix that
(25:14):
there's something spiritualgoing on here, but yet there
were some interference fromother places?
I'm just going to ask, Be niceto know, hey, listeners, tell us
, Do y'all believe in aliens?
Yeah right, I mean, you know,are they real or are they not?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Or are we just crazy?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
And to make it even worse, are they part of your
tradition?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Oh, yes, and how in the world do you work that in?
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yes, oh that would be interesting to hear.
You know, I'm not saying Iagree with it, but I'm just
saying that would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Oh yeah it would be interesting to hear if it, if
you found a way to integratethat into and not wind up with
some heaven's gate thing, right,right, well, I mean, even if
you have, you know we're notgoing to turn you in, but you
know let's don't do the sneakers, Please don't.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
And the orange juice Right.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
All right, let's have some more coffee.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
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Speaker 2 (26:32):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing fires.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning
(26:52):
breaks, and so it is the end ofour day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
Till morning.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Pagan coffee talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
So, lord knight, we had thistopic come up, and not too long
ago, right, right how do youwant to start this?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
well, there's a document that we use, and it's
pretty much read almost everyfull moon or sabbath or whatever
.
It's called the charge of thegoddess Right.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So my curiosity is something that's said at the end
of this document, which readsthe following For behold, I have
been with you from thebeginning, and I am that which
is attained at the end of desire.
What is the?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
end of desire.
Well, what is desire and whatdo you obtain at the end of
desire?
These are the questions I have.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
All right, so let's try to examine this.
Let's start with what is desire.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, I mean, you know most people have a desire
to live.
Okay, All right, I meanbiological functions.
You, you what you get?
Someone smothers you or you'reunderwater.
You fight like hell to get towhere you can breathe again.
Yes, you do, and it seems to beautomatic, like the whole
(01:37):
entire um, what is that?
The uh diving reaction?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
oh, what is that called?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
where it can, where it like, resets your heart rate
and stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Because this is such a shock to the body.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
It's not a volunteer control thing.
No, it's not.
So again, is that not desire?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, I would say it is.
I'd say it's a form of desire,right, so let's look.
A form of desire, right, solet's look.
Uh, cambridge dictionarydefines desire as well.
Not quite what we're lookingfor, but okay, to have a strong
sexual attraction to someone.
Not quite what we're going forhere yeah, but a strong feeling
(02:20):
that you want something.
The strong feeling that youwant something, the strong
feeling that you have to havesomething, as in the object of
someone's desire To wantsomething strongly Right.
So, yes, it's just to want.
(02:41):
Well, we all want but accordingto this.
This is a strong.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Right Again.
Like I was describing, thewanting to live is so strong in
us that our bodies automaticallydo it without us telling it to.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Right, okay, so now we know what desire is, so what
would be the end of desire?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Would that be death or would?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
it be tranquility.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, could it be peace.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
But how do you obtain that in this life?
Can you do that?
Can you manage that?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
well, say again, when you talk about things like know
, like I said about like thewhole living instinct, right, so
again, can you bypass that?
I really believe the only waywe can get past that is through
death.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, so if that's the case, then what truly is
obtained at the end of desireReunion?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
with the goddess Okay , and the goddess Okay, and the
gods I mean in essence.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
But we believe in reincarnation.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
so Well, again just to return to the other side.
The idea is that the Forhowever long, for however long
the other side is there is noneed, there's no won't,
everything's just there.
Okay, you know again.
Side is there is no need,there's no one, everything's
just there.
Okay, you know again.
We're talking about the wholeland of plenty, true, summer
(04:13):
lands and stuff like this.
Living and desiring issupposedly supposed to be easier
in these places, because, well,it's just there, right, the
trees always bloom and give offfruit and food and hunting's
plentiful and there's no actualstruggle well and I think, I
(04:35):
think that's pretty commonthroughout most religions yeah
that when you die, you go to aplace where you want for nothing
.
Right, you have no desires,because all your desires are,
they're already met they'realready met Quite literally
everything.
Now I mean, I don't actuallybelieve this like that.
(04:58):
I believe you're going intomore of an energy state and you
don't need these things.
That's why desire ends there.
Okay, it's not required.
You don't have to eat on theother side, you just sort of
exist.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So basically I am that that is obtained at the end
of desire.
So it quite literally is areunion of energies Right Back
to the source for however longuntil we're reincarnated.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yes, I do not think ending desire in this state you
with me as a living, breathinghuman it's something we can
completely end.
Okay, because again you havethose basic desires.
I mean hunger is technically adesire.
Okay, because again you havethose basic desires.
(05:50):
I mean hunger is technically adesire, technically, depending
on how hungry you are.
Right, if you're hangry.
Well, so again, I'm like you.
I'd have to say yes.
What's attained at the end ofthe desire is death and rest.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So then, how do we manage our desires on this earth
so that they don't become greedor overwhelm?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
everything else Right To the exclusion of our own
spiritual growth Right.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
How do we manage that so that it's not an obsession?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Well, again, there's a difference between greed and
needs.
Well, yeah, I mean, because,again, we, we keep on talking in
our religion all over and overagain, when you have a need so
we just basically, we we have towe have to decide.
We have to decide what isnecessary versus what we just
(06:45):
won't.
Okay, all right.
I mean, let's be honest, megoing out and buying one of
those 50-foot skeletons to putout into the yard, that's not a
need.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
But it could be considered a want, a desire, a
desire or a want you.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Just because you desire something doesn't
necessarily make it a need.
But that's what I'm talkingabout.
How do we?
But yet all your needs aredesires okay, so we have to
again.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
We have to walk a fine line right and we have to
be cognitive of our own desiresversus needs, Right?
So again it comes back to knowthyself.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Know thyself, know thy needs Right.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So again, these One of my favorite phrases witch
know yourself.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
You're a damn witch.
Heal thyself already, come on,but you know but yeah, so okay,
that makes sense yeah, I meanbecause and me sitting here
saying that, yes, all your needsare desires I mean I've seen
people get up and hunt forglasses of water because they're
so thirsty, right, thattechnically, in that moment
(08:06):
becomes an overwhelming desire.
Okay, so again, all your needsdo turn into desires at some
point.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
But all your desires, like you said are not
necessarily needs.
And we have to distinguish thatRight, Otherwise we literally
run into the trap that we becomeobsessive about our desires
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
We become more obsessive and care more about
things that are farther awayfrom us than the things that we
should be caring about with us.
Okay, all right, you're moreconcerned about a rock out in
California?
or a tree out in California butyou're not worried about your
own backyard, Right?
That makes no sense to me, Well, no, we need to adjust our what
(08:55):
we can do on this.
What needs I mean?
Do you really need to, you know, protect a tree all the way out
and across the country?
One little tree, Right, whenyou know when?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
you know, I don't know about other people, right.
When you know when you know?
I don't know about other people, but we've got trees in our
backyard Right.
We should be caring about whichones are going to fall and hit
the house.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Right, or which ones we need to cut down so we can
get other trees to have moreroom for them to grow and be
more healthy, right so Eh, eh,and be more healthy, right so eh
.
Eh, but yeah, you know, again,pagan people, bless them.
(09:37):
We're all passionate people.
We are, yeah, but again we havea tendency to let that passion
override everything else.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, in some cases we do yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah and again, this is something we need to pull
back on.
We need to start to refocus onour families, on our temples, on
our community.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And there's any number of ways that you can do
that.
I think you need to start withfocusing on yourself and, like
we were just saying, anddefining, especially if you find
yourself in a position whereyou're having problems deciding
what to do, what you need versuswhat you want, then you need to
(10:22):
examine yourself and you needto be able to define that before
you can help take.
RuPaul said it best how in thehell are you going to love
somebody?
To define that before you canhelp take?
Rupaul said it best how in thehell are?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
you going to love somebody else if you can't love
yourself?
How are you going to helpsomebody else put their mask on
if you don't have yours on?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
If you don't know how to do it, you can't help
somebody else.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So I think that's where you need to start.
Yes, well, I could be wrong,it's just my opinion, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
you know, but I I mean, I'm sorry with the way the
economy is right now and blah,blah blah, and you people are
having to make choices betweenmedications and food right, all
right.
Or certain things and otherwhich shouldn't be the case All
right, which shouldn't be thecase.
But it is a good time for us tostart looking.
(11:13):
What do we actually need?
What are we wasting money onand time and effort on?
That's really not benefiting usin the long run.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Right, Especially when money's tight yes, when
money's tight start making somecuts.
What can we cut out?
Do we really need that steakdinner?
you know, I know some peoplewould argue well, yeah, I mean
we we all enjoy our steaks, butyou know it's, you know, you and
I, we, we've cut back the redmeat because it's just too damn
(11:47):
expensive.
Yeah, so it's not that we don'thave it and we don't enjoy it
because we do, but we just don'thave it as much.
No, you know, we stick with thecheaper meats and vegetables.
You know, we've started tryingto grow our own, yeah,
vegetables.
(12:07):
So you know, that kind of helps.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
More self-reliance Right.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
So I mean again.
It comes back to what can youcut out, what can you do to
change?
Speaker 3 (12:16):
and help yourself financially.
Again, it's us sitting down andbeing honest with ourselves
about our desires.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
All right Again.
I'm not sitting there tellingyou to get on the world and tell
everybody everything in yourhead.
You need to at least be honestwith yourself, exactly all right
and again.
I keep on going back to thatover and over again you, we have
to start being honest withourselves.
I see so many times wherepeople aren't doing that.
They'll sit there and claim allthis other stuff.
(12:46):
But and you're looking, I'mgoing really, are you really
doing that right?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
I have to do that to myself all the time because, I
will.
I will gaslight myself in aheartbeat like, oh you, you know
, I've I've been doing so good,and I've been doing this and
that, and I'll be like, and I'llsit back and I'll be like I've
been doing so good, I've beendoing so good on my diet this
whole entire time, I can eatthat one brownie Right.
Things like that.
(13:13):
Everybody needs a cheat day ontheir freaking diet.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh, no, no, no.
The majority of the times Ihear that is that's their fifth
brownie.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Oh, but you know, I'm just saying I do it to myself
and when I do it I eventuallysit back and I'll be like you're
just you're lying to yourselfand you're lying to everybody
else that you didn't do none ofthat.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
No.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And then I have to face up to it you know it is.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
That's definitely the hardest pill to swallow is when
you gaslight yourself, Lord, isit ever?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And as humans, we do it all the time.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Oh yeah, we.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Is it ever?
And as humans, we do it all thetime.
Oh yeah, we do it all the timeand again, it's something else
we have to be aware of.
I think that plays into knowingyour needs and your desires, as
well as knowing when you'refooling yourself.
Hence the reason meditation issuch a wonderful thing to do
(14:08):
absolutely I ain't said that ina while.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
No, you haven't.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Meditation, meditation what part don't y'all
understand?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
you got ready for some coffee, I believe.
So I saw a report the other dayall Mm-hmm.
All right, they have maybefound life on another planet.
There's completely, of course,it's too far away to actually
get luck, or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Of course it is.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Which then brings up this whole entire subject I've
been wanting to approach on thepodcast from a pagan point of
view.
What about aliens?
Aliens, all right Again, if welisten to the ancient alien
people, the whole story of thetwaffa day to non and how they
showed up, I have to admit tosome extent.
(14:56):
Yes, could sound like aspacecraft landing.
It could, considering the wholeentire thing was is that
there's a fog that came in fromnowhere?
for three days, once it itcleared there's this big city,
but then, on the other hand, Ihad to be this way.
Back then, what did theyconsider a big city?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Right, was it the size of a football field?
Two football fields, I mean.
Do you got like?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
a thousand people in town or something.
So I have to ask what do youthink?
Do we believe in aliens?
Do we believe that maybe thegods were actually ancient
aliens, or do we believe they'reactually gods like we've talked
about?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, I don't know that we can speak for the
community on that.
I don't think that we can.
I don't even think we can speakfor the coven on that.
I don't.
I don't think that we can.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I don't even think we can speak for the coven on that
no, I think that's well, it'san interesting thing, because
again, it is you, you hear thisstuff and again they're, they're
, they're approaching on some ofthe stuff because again, oh no,
no, thor was an alien andreally the thor's hammer was
this weapon right, well, and andyou look at the anunnaki right
and then you look at that, well,you look at the stuff from
(16:09):
India, from the oh, I forgotwhat the Vera documents, or
something.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's supposed to be diagrams of these flying mana
ships.
Well, and even Egyptianhieroglyphs depict spaceships
and maybe possible aliens, right?
So yeah, I mean, throughouthistory, we've got the stories,
we have the tales, even inChristian artwork, you see, what
(16:41):
looks appears to be spaceshipsin the sky, you know.
And all this other stuff, right, spaceships in the sky, you
know.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
And all this other stuff.
So, Now we already know.
First of all, let's state Firstof all most pagans I know we
believe our myths are nothingmore than myths, Right, All
right, that they're nice storiesthat basically there was a guy
named Hercules.
He was the strongest person inhis village.
People told the story over andover again to where he finally
(17:11):
had to become the son of a godand do all this magic.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, it's like that one uncle that caught the fish
and then, before you know it,it's a whale.
It's a whale, all right.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Right, so we see myths that way.
Could there have been aliensthat actually showed up
throughout time, into andinfluenced our myths and legends
about the gods?
Maybe not maybe not stand in asthe gods themselves, but right.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
well, I think it's entirely possible and I think I
think there is some truth if ifit is true right, like I kind of
want to believe it is.
If there's, if it is true, thenthere's probably also some
truth to the part of the taleswhere People didn't know what to
(18:00):
make of them, and so they sawthem as gods Right Because of
the knowledge they brought withthem, the technology, the
miracles that these people coulddo.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Well now, on the flip side of this I mean me
personally yeah, I believe atsome point that there were
beings that walked upon this, inthis realm ie like elementals
and stuff like this at a certainpoint in history, but for some
reason, when humanity gainedcertain things, they all seemed
(18:34):
to have ran away.
So I can't sit here and saythese 100% are aliens or
multidimensional creatures orRight or anything like this
either.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So Again open up to the realm of possibilities.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Because I mean, technically, we're still talking
about the same thing.
The only difference is our godscome from a different dimension
.
Right Of some type Right, sothose could still be considered
aliens.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
They could they very well could.
I don't know how other peoplefeel about that, though I don't
think it's something I've hearda lot of people talk about, but
it is an interesting question.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Well, I mean because the way I look at it is you know
, a soul's a soul Doesn't matter.
All right, and especially onceyou're on the other side.
So again you're.
So are the gods in the samesense Right?
All right, of course they'repart of the source, but it's
there.
I'm sorry, never seen anythingin any pagan doctrine documents
(19:48):
that denounce the possibility ofother life on other planets,
like certain other religions,right?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
yeah, no, I don't think I've ever seen that, and
so.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So again, that's even even talking about this or
maybe even being a possibility.
I don't see as a big uproar inthe pagan community.
No, not really, not like youwould.
I mean, if you went andsuggested this type of idea to
the Christian community, yeah,you'd be getting hair ripped out
and people screaming.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I don't know that it'd go that far, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Heretic.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
You know, maybe back in the early days of the church.
But yeah, Again, I like tothink that we are not alone in
this universe.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
That the gods have some other side projects going
on.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
We can't be their only concern.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
No.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
True, I mean, we're like ants on this planet today?
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I don't know.
There are some of us out therethat are arrogant enough to
believe.
Well true.
That they have completely theattention of the gods, them
themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Cornered the market on it, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I mean you do have people out there that are, quote
unquote, marian deities.
True, I mean I'm not wrongthere.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, so yeah, but I mean, I kind of look at that.
As you know, we, we are not themain, sole focus for our
deities.
No, we, we make petitions andthen they choose whether or not
to the way I look at.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It is the way I look at.
I think the gods have their ownplan for the world and how it's
going to go, and we're justsort of like running around like
little lemons for them.
At the end of the day, they'regoing to get their way.
They're going to push societyone way or another, based on
(21:41):
what they want or what's needed.
Okay, I can see that In thegrand scheme of things, I don't
think they're sitting therecontrolling each individual
person.
But you do believe that there'sa grand design, if you will, yes
, I mean I find it hard tobelieve yes, when I'm sitting
here and yes, I am looking atleaves and stuff like that that
(22:04):
there's not some grand plan.
There's a better architect thanus.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I do believe that there is a grand architect of
sorts, but I don't know that.
I believe necessarily thatthere's a grand scheme to things
, some great design for thisworld.
I think we're just, I thinkwe're kind of making of it what
we make of it.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Well, I think we're doing that.
Like I said, in the broad sense, though, that's where I think
the gods play majority of thetimes.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
All right.
So I mean because I have to askthe question and according to
all the old myths of all thedifferent religions, at one
point gods used to interfere.
All the time.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
True.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And now they've suddenly stopped.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, why is that?
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
so I mean, if they were aliens, what made them stop
coming?
That's a good question.
What made these or even ifthese were beings like we're
spiritual beings like we'retalking about what made them
leave?
If they're not aliens and theyare spiritual beings like we
believe, I gotta ask thequestion what made them leave?
Right, because throughouthistory there was, there's
(23:19):
always been, more of a, you know, magic, mystery and god's
interfering with everybody, andbut now you don't see it any
days no, you don't.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
That kind of coincides with the whole grand
scheme of things.
Did we, did we reach a pointwhere they said, okay, we can
now.
Right, we've given youeverything you need.
We can now step back well.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, if we look at humanity like an actual person,
in those formidable years, yes,we needed the gods because we
were just kids, right, figuringthe world out.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Right, but now we have a better grasp on things.
They're like okay, right.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Now y'all what?
The 13-year-old staying at homealone while the parents are off
working Right?
I mean, is that where we're atnow?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
That is food for thought.
That's interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
And what do we have to do to get their attention to?
I mean, do we really have tomess up that?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
For them to come back .
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Do we have to mess up ?
Do we have to be bad kids?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I don't know.
Now see, that question kind ofscares me, because now at this
point, if they come back, whatdid we fuck up, what?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
What did we do so yeah, that kind of concerns me a
little bit.
Definitely a different way ofthinking about all of this.
Yeah, it really is, but again,like I said, I've seen nothing
in any pagan tradition to Tocontradict.
I've seen nothing in any pagantradition to To contradict.
To contradict the fact thatthere may be aliens or people on
other worlds or anything likethat.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Well you know I mean, and the evidence is there.
It really is.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I'm not saying they're wrong, but their theory
is just as valid as ours.
Well, sure it is Again.
I can't knock them for theirbeliefs, but some of the points
that they make does make alittle bit of sense.
So it makes me wonder could itbe more of a 50-50 mix that
(25:14):
there's something spiritualgoing on here, but yet there
were some interference fromother places?
I'm just going to ask, Be niceto know, hey, listeners, tell us
, Do y'all believe in aliens?
Yeah right, I mean, you know,are they real or are they not?
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Or are we just crazy?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
And to make it even worse, are they part of your
tradition?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Oh, yes, and how in the world do you work that in?
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yes, oh that would be interesting to hear.
You know, I'm not saying Iagree with it, but I'm just
saying that would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Oh yeah it would be interesting to hear if it, if
you found a way to integratethat into and not wind up with
some heaven's gate thing, right,right, well, I mean, even if
you have, you know we're notgoing to turn you in, but you
know let's don't do the sneakers, Please don't.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
And the orange juice Right.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
All right, let's have some more coffee.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing fires.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning
(26:52):
breaks, and so it is the end ofour day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
Till morning.
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