March 5, 2025 • 23 mins
Are we placing too much emphasis on degrees and formal education? In our latest episode, we tackle this thought-provoking question as we explore how society often values individuals based on their degrees rather than their hands-on experiences and practical knowledge. With the pagan community as our backdrop, we dissect the commonly held beliefs that elevate authors and professionals with certain qualifications onto pedestals, leading to perceptions of superiority that can overshadow real skill and insight.
Join us as we question why we tend to assign authority based on higher education while neglecting to appreciate the multitude of wisdom available outside the classroom. By encouraging listeners to reflect on their worldview, we aim to dismantle the notion that expertise comes exclusively from traditional education.
Moreover, we delve into the impact of technology and social media on knowledge dissemination, considering how the barriers to entry are weakening traditional gatekeeping roles. Anyone can now share their voice, emphasizing the need to broaden our definition of expertise to include various perspectives and experiences.
Ultimately, this conversation urges us to rethink how we measure knowledge and authority. Let’s start valuing personal journeys and recognizing that true wisdom can emerge from many different avenues, not just those adorned with accolades. Tune in, and let's challenge the status quo together! Don’t forget to subscribe, share the episode, and let us know your thoughts!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
So what would you like to talkabout?
You had an idea.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I had an idea all right when there's certain
things in the pagan community isstarted to annoy me a little
bit mm-hmm someone has a degreesomeone has a bachelor's degree
or someone has a master's degreesuddenly they become all
important because they have thatdegree.
Or when somebody in thecommunity suddenly publishes a
(00:52):
book and we're supposed to lookat them differently.
And I see more and more witchesout there that seem to have
these titles or these things andthey're using them more, as I'm
better than you.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Could this?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
just be a perceived well much much like how people
perceive us as like the stiffshirts of the pagan community
well, I see this outside thepagan community too, because I
see the same behaviors when itcomes to doctors and lawyers and
stuff like that.
Why, while they're great attheir field, why in the world do
we automatically assume theyknow everything about everything
everywhere?
(01:29):
Else.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah, just because you'reStephen King, do you really have
the right or the authority togo and speak on political
matters?
That really is not your subjectof field.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
with me, yeah, yeah yeah, All right.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean it'd be like me trying to go talk to a bunch
of Christians about ChristianityRight, while you do know a good
bit.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It's not what you practice on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It is not my field of expertise, right?
What is the problem with no oneunderstanding?
Stay in your lane, stay on yourfield of topic, and just
because you have a master'sdegree does not make you a
master of everything.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
All right, and again I've got to push back on the
community.
But we all do it.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
We do tend to, and I think part of that is because
when you've got somebody who'slike that, you treat them as
knowledgeable.
You know what I mean.
They're kind of like the sages.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
At least that's how they get back to its perception.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, no, let's go back to my perception of this.
I go to get my hair cut.
The person cutting my hair isthe professional, right?
They know what they're doing.
I don't, right.
So why would I not look at themgoing?
What do you think, afterlooking at my hair, how it grows
in the whole nine yards, what'sthe best haircut you think?
You're the one doing them allday long, not me.
(03:01):
Okay, but this is not the personthat you're going to go to and
talk to about writing a book no,now I might have a conversation
with them, but it's not likeI'm going out and asking for my
butcher's advice on cutting yourhair.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I'm cutting my hair, I'm not asking my just because
he's good with a knife or a pairof scissors, right I mean, but
I'm not sitting there askingthem for talk.
Stock tips either, right, butthat's what I'm saying, I think.
I think part of that comes downto.
It's a perception thing, right,much like let's bring it down
to the coven level.
(03:36):
How many times have we hadstudents come in?
And because you are veryknowledgeable about this
tradition and what we believeand where all this information
comes from, they automaticallyperceive you to be like the
ultimate wise sage again, andyou have to bring it back.
(04:00):
You have to get them to come tothat place where, no, you don't
know everything well, again, Iwill give it to you.
Yes, I know a lot about mytradition, I know, but what I'm
saying is is that, because ofthat right and because you come
across as very knowledgeableabout so many things, a lot of
(04:21):
times they get the perception Idon't't know if you know this, I
don't know if it's somethingthat I've, just because I tend
to mingle a little bit more thanyou do yeah they tend to
perceive you as like theultimate knowledge base.
I am the world's biggest humandatabase, right and it's
something that you have to bringthem back to, because they
(04:43):
might come to you with somethingand you'll be like you know
what I?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
don't know a thing about that, but I've said that
I've done that more than once.
And I think you've heard meeven sit there and tell people
straight to the eye.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right, but you see where I'm going with this.
I think it's the same thingthat we do with authors, we do
it with lawyers, we do it withpeople who are in those
positions and do have a lot ofknowledge.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
We tend to automatically assume and
perceive them as someone who cantalk about anything.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I guess my point is is why in the world do we think,
just because you've got thislittle piece of paper and you've
went to school for umpteenyears, that you're smarter than
the rest of us?
I, I know very intelligent,very smart doctors who would not
know how to come out of thefreaking rain.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Right, I mean, there's my point, but yet I had
a science teacher in junior highwho was super smart, knew all
the stuff he didn't even need abook to teach from man, had no
common sense no, but yet we'retold, because this person has a
degree or something, we shouldlisten to them on everything.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Or are you with me on this?
I am having a problem because Idon't.
I don't want to take away fromthose people who do learn.
I mean, yes, you have to go toschool to become a doctor,
you've got to become an engineer.
There are certain skills youhave to learn.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I understand that I'm with you on this to a point.
I don't think it's somethingthat we're told.
I think it's just something wedo.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, again, we're Gen X.
I think it's just something wedo.
Well, again, we're Gen X.
Yeah, all right, we were toldfor years.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Hey, if you're going to get ahead, you need to go to
college?
Yeah, but that doesn't mean wewere told that just because we
had a degree that people wouldtreat us like we knew everything
.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I'm sorry, no, I was literally told to my face from
teachers if you do not go tocollege, if you do not have a
degree, your life won't be worthanything.
Okay, but again, that doesn'tgo back to how people are going
to perceive you.
Well, again, is that not layingthat down, that these people
who got to go to college arebetter than you?
(07:00):
because they got to go tocollege and your life ain't
worth crap because you're just ahigh school dropout who happens
to own their own business and ahouse and all this other crap.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
But you're not as successful because you don't
have that piece of paper.
Is this not where this starts,where we're sort of told that
because you didn't do the debt,because you didn't do this, I
guess, so yeah.
Are you with me?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I think it could start there.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I don't really know why or where it started Because
I've always seen college as justa further of specific goals.
Mm-hmm.
That you know.
You go to college to learn howto be a chemist.
You go to college to learn.
You don't go to college tonecessarily learn how to work on
(07:49):
cars or build a house.
Right, you go, get those jobsand they teach you on them.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Unless it's a trade school Right.
And that's a trade school Right.
And that's what they're doingthey're teaching you how to run
a business.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
But even then I remember kids Growing up in high
school.
In the whole yon yards thetrade schools were sort of been
in special ed.
Trust me, they pushed thosereally, really hard and they did
not have a shame of sittingthere going well, you know,
y'all are special ed Right.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, I can't speak to that.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, I mean there's my point, though Y'all will
never get degrees.
You will never do this.
Y'all can only do these jobsbecause they want to look down
on the carpenters and thefarmers and all this other stuff
.
Yeah, all right.
I mean, I don't know too manykids that went around high
school going.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh god, I can't wait to grow up and be a plumber I
don't either, but but yeah, I,I'm sorry, I've hired plumbers.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
They're not making no small amount of money.
No they're not, I mean, you'rewith me.
So this is what's confusing mehere all Because, again, I see
low-skilled workers and all thisother stuff that actually make
good money in these industriesand stuff like that, but yet why
(09:08):
do we look down on them?
Why do we automatically assumethey're less knowledgeable just
because you don't have a pieceof paper?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
See, I can't answer that question.
I'm not that way.
You're not, Well, no becauseI'm the person I was always told
.
You know, yeah, you should goto college, you should get a
degree Right.
I was never told why.
I was never told what it woulddo for me any of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You were never told which degrees would.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It was just a goal.
Yeah, no, I was never toldwhich degrees were going to
actually help me in real life.
Right, it was just a goal toachieve, for whatever reason.
Again, I was given no reason,it was just something that was
pounded into my head.
You know, go to college,further your education.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, let's see.
Have you seen that commercialfrom I think it's Indeed and a
woman sitting down talking tothis guy?
And she's talking about gettinga job at the hotel and the
guy's sitting there going oh,you just need a degree, any
degree.
Mine's in dance.
Yeah, and she's like well, no,I went and studied and got
(10:17):
certifications and stuffspecifically to do this.
Yeah, why I don't?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I don't know but where I was going with that was.
Squirrel, squirrel when I wasgoing with that.
Was that coming from a lowerclass?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
family.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Right, my dad was a machinist, mom was a, an lpn
nurse.
You know, mama was like thebottom of the barrel and right
as far as the nursing field wentum, as you know, aside from
cnas.
But we struggled financially.
We didn't have a lot, so itwasn't, it wasn't something to
(10:58):
look down on, because I couldsee where these people were the
backbone of society essentially,and there were a lot of
intelligent people that daddyworked with, that mama worked
with.
We knew plumbers, we knew HVACpeople, we knew, you know, we
knew a bunch of people and I wasnever brought up to believe any
(11:21):
other way, but I was neverbrought up to believe that we
were not the scum of societyeither.
It's just something that Ideveloped on my own.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Right.
So I don't get.
I don't understand.
I'm like you.
I don't understand where thisidea comes from that.
Just because you have a degree,then therefore, you are up on a
throne somewhere.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well again and I see this behavior more magnified for
some reason in the pagancommunity as soon as someone
starts a podcast, as soon assomeone starts, writes a book
and gets published or whatever,suddenly they're put up onto
this freaking pedestal.
All right, but we don't, weshouldn't be doing that no, we
shouldn't.
I learned a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You don't put people up on pedestals because they
just have further to fall.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Right.
I mean, there are many booksout there, there are many great
authors.
I'm not knocking the authors,I'm just saying, just because
you wrote a book, and especiallynowadays, because I can sit
here, I could write a book andbe published tomorrow.
Yeah, all right, it's calledself-publishing.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Anybody can do it, so where's the remarkable thing
about it anymore?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I think the idea is, if you, if you, you
know as far as that goes, if youcan get a publishing company to
work with you, then you've gotthe reputation of that
publishing company behind you?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, but I'll make more money publishing on my own
instead of having to give thepublishing company a cut of the
money.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Right, but you won't have the marketing Again, you
won't have the reputation of thecompany.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Maybe not, but I see more and more people doing that.
I see our society moving moreand more to a more decentralized
type of lifestyle.
Mm-hmm.
All right To where you nolonger have the big corporations
of media and book companies andstuff like that.
(13:26):
They're finally being so.
You don't have thosegatekeepers anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, I think it could happen, I really do.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I mean, I see it happening now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I know, but it it's gonna be a slow process to get
to the point where, no, we don'thave the publishing companies
anymore right or the, the bignetwork tvs and the big movie
production right, it's stillgonna take a while for all that
to go away, if it's gonnacompletely go away but how?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
now, now, now with all this, but seriously, with
all these gatekeeping factionthings falling apart, all right,
because they can't keep you outanymore no they can't keep you
off of youtube, they can't keepyou out from publishing, but
anymore.
How should we, how do you thinkwe should start seeing this now
?
well, should we start treatingthese industries like we treat
(14:18):
all social media.
What do you mean?
Well, I'm sorry.
When I go through social mediaI see a lot of stuff that I am
interested in and a lot of stuffI'm not.
I just skip over the stuff I'mnot and keep on going.
Well, I think that's kind of theway it's been anyway, and if I
don't- agree with something, Ijust tell it okay, just don't
(14:39):
show me anything from thischannel anymore.
I don't want anything else fromthis person and just keep on
moving on with my life but Ithink it's been that way even
when we had physical brick andmortar bookstores.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
There's still a few, but it's still the same thing If
you go into a bookstore there'ssections of books and you can
choose to bypass any section.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
But my point is but to get your book in a bookstore
you used to have to go through apublisher.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
True, yeah, All right there's my point.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
There's the gatekeeping.
Because, again back when wewere.
That's the only way you couldpublish a book.
Nowadays you don't have to.
I mean people self-publishmovies now.
Self-publish music.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right, but with the social media the way it is now,
I don't think there's any otherway to treat it other than that
way.
You see something you like, youwatch it, or you listen to it,
or you know you purchase asubscription to it or whatever,
and if you don't, you just keepgoing.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You keep going.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
You downvote stuff you don't like, so you don't
have to see it again.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So why hasn't our community changed any based on
this?
Why in the world do we still?
Why do I still see people goingoh no, she's a publisher, or
they're a publisher and Bob areyou with me?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
That I don't know, because I mean now it's come
down to, like you said, podcasts, you know, books, whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Blogs.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's so prevalent now , right, you know, and anybody
can do it.
Does that mean everybody'sgoing to be a success?
No, no, we're not even asuccess, but we just do this.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
We're not even a success in our own community.
No, we just do this because wewant to.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But point is, with the way things are going now,
anybody can do this Right.
So I don't think there's anyreason to view it other than
this is an extension ofcommunication, it's an extension
of community.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
it should be bringing us closer together right, I
mean because again more voices,more information right there,
the better off.
You never know where that nextidea will come from.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Exactly you know, and I think that's the way it
should be treated.
So, even if you are a publishedauthor or you know a successful
podcaster or blogger orwhatever it is, you do quote,
unquote influencer right I don'tthink we should be treating
anybody any differently.
Well, say the one thing, thenwe would our next door neighbor.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The one thing I was hoping, with the media, social,
all of this kind of becomingwhat I say more decentralized
was, is that the idol worshipwould start to go away.
Are you?
Because that's what part ofthis is.
It's that whole Ooh star power,and everybody knows you.
When are we going to stop doingthat?
(17:48):
Because I'm sorry, I don't seewhere that should be anywhere,
part or close to our.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I like Scott Cunningham and thewhole nine yards.
I will recommend his books themajority of the time they're a
decent place to start in thewhole nine yards in his books.
The majority of the timethey're a decent place to start
in the whole nine yards.
But I'm not sitting herehanging my shingle off of his
(18:10):
writings.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You with me, but yet I know people who do Well
honestly, we need to getourselves into a mindset that
all of these people out heredoing these things and putting
their voices out there inwhatever format, these people
are no different than we are.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
They're no different.
They might be making a littlebit more money off of their
stuff.
They might not have to work afull-time job doing what they're
doing, and that's fine andthat's great Good for them,
right, it's the entrepreneurshipof America, right, right.
But that does not mean that we,like we've been saying we
(18:55):
shouldn't be putting them on apedestal.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We shouldn't be elevating them to a status they
don't have.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Well, yeah, I mean again.
It's the same behavior likewith doctors just because they
tell you to do something doesnot necessarily mean you have to
take their advice, right.
So, and then?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
but I think it's gonna.
It's just gonna take time toget ourselves into that mindset,
just like with me it.
You know it did take a longtime for me to realize.
Okay, a degree does not elevateyour status in society
whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
No.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
At least for me, it didn't.
I wasn't able to finish mydegree.
But the folks that I went toschool with, they got their
degrees.
It didn't elevate them anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I don't think the degree I got, even though it's
only an associate's degree, Idon't think it did too much for
me either, Except for sending medown paths I would have studied
by myself but over a longerperiod of time, right?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I think it just comes down to we have to realize
that does not elevate you inany way.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well, we have to realize going to school and
intelligence have nothing to dowith each other.
No they don't.
People learn stuff in placesother than schools other than
sitting down and just doing mathproblem after math problem.
All right, there are a lot ofpeople that learn stuff outside
of that.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, there are a lot of people that learn stuff
outside of that.
Yeah, I learned more outside ofhigh school and college than I
probably did in school.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well and this is going to be sad I learned more
about my math classes whiletrying to do my work, where I
actually had to use the math,versus me just trying to learn
it in school.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Right, that's kind of what I'm talking about.
I mean, if you can applywhatever it is to your daily
life, you're going to get moreout of it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean because it makes sense.
This is what I'm using this for.
This is why I have to get toknow this instead of the whole,
entire, you know, because whatwas that?
I had to learn how to do the inmath, how to calculate an arc.
If you're going to throwsomething, I'm sitting back
going, okay?
What does that have to do withmy degree, Right?
Not a damn thing.
(21:12):
Mm-mm.
So I've still never understoodthat, Just like I've never
understood schools going.
But we're trying to make youmore worldly by making you take
classes you don't care aboutright well, I don't care about
them to begin with.
What makes you think I'm goingto do them well?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
right.
It's just like with a lot ofyour classes.
You took to youtube and foundinstructional videos on shit and
you got more out of that thanyou did out of the classroom
well, yeah, because you could goback and re-watch it and you
could find similar videos and Icould pause it and think about
it right and hear it again.
(21:52):
Five more so I mean, do we, dowe really need that anymore?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
do we?
Do we even need school?
I mean, I I've argued this Ithink college, outside of being
for, except for engineers andspecific things like lawyers or
doctors and stuff like that, Idon't see the use of them.
No, I think, if we, I mean Iunderstand how an x-ray tech
(22:19):
needs to learn how to the humanbody, and all Right I think if
we treated it more like a tradeschool yes, and just did
specific trades.
And you learned what you neededto do this specific job and then
you moved on.
People would.
It would be cheaper, faster,easier and more people could do
it.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, it would be more efficient.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, In and of itself.
So I think that's about it.
Quit worshipping people justbecause they wrote a freaking
book or sung a song or do abroadcast Right.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Now let's go get some coffee.
God, let's go.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
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Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
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Speaker 4 (23:16):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning
(23:37):
breaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
So what would you like to talkabout?
You had an idea.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I had an idea all right when there's certain
things in the pagan community isstarted to annoy me a little
bit mm-hmm someone has a degreesomeone has a bachelor's degree
or someone has a master's degreesuddenly they become all
important because they have thatdegree.
Or when somebody in thecommunity suddenly publishes a
(00:52):
book and we're supposed to lookat them differently.
And I see more and more witchesout there that seem to have
these titles or these things andthey're using them more, as I'm
better than you.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Could this?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
just be a perceived well much much like how people
perceive us as like the stiffshirts of the pagan community
well, I see this outside thepagan community too, because I
see the same behaviors when itcomes to doctors and lawyers and
stuff like that.
Why, while they're great attheir field, why in the world do
we automatically assume theyknow everything about everything
everywhere?
(01:29):
Else.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah, just because you'reStephen King, do you really have
the right or the authority togo and speak on political
matters?
That really is not your subjectof field.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
with me, yeah, yeah yeah, All right.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean it'd be like me trying to go talk to a bunch
of Christians about ChristianityRight, while you do know a good
bit.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It's not what you practice on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It is not my field of expertise, right?
What is the problem with no oneunderstanding?
Stay in your lane, stay on yourfield of topic, and just
because you have a master'sdegree does not make you a
master of everything.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
All right, and again I've got to push back on the
community.
But we all do it.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
We do tend to, and I think part of that is because
when you've got somebody who'slike that, you treat them as
knowledgeable.
You know what I mean.
They're kind of like the sages.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
At least that's how they get back to its perception.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, no, let's go back to my perception of this.
I go to get my hair cut.
The person cutting my hair isthe professional, right?
They know what they're doing.
I don't, right.
So why would I not look at themgoing?
What do you think, afterlooking at my hair, how it grows
in the whole nine yards, what'sthe best haircut you think?
You're the one doing them allday long, not me.
(03:01):
Okay, but this is not the personthat you're going to go to and
talk to about writing a book no,now I might have a conversation
with them, but it's not likeI'm going out and asking for my
butcher's advice on cutting yourhair.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I'm cutting my hair, I'm not asking my just because
he's good with a knife or a pairof scissors, right I mean, but
I'm not sitting there askingthem for talk.
Stock tips either, right, butthat's what I'm saying, I think.
I think part of that comes downto.
It's a perception thing, right,much like let's bring it down
to the coven level.
(03:36):
How many times have we hadstudents come in?
And because you are veryknowledgeable about this
tradition and what we believeand where all this information
comes from, they automaticallyperceive you to be like the
ultimate wise sage again, andyou have to bring it back.
(04:00):
You have to get them to come tothat place where, no, you don't
know everything well, again, Iwill give it to you.
Yes, I know a lot about mytradition, I know, but what I'm
saying is is that, because ofthat right and because you come
across as very knowledgeableabout so many things, a lot of
(04:21):
times they get the perception Idon't't know if you know this, I
don't know if it's somethingthat I've, just because I tend
to mingle a little bit more thanyou do yeah they tend to
perceive you as like theultimate knowledge base.
I am the world's biggest humandatabase, right and it's
something that you have to bringthem back to, because they
(04:43):
might come to you with somethingand you'll be like you know
what I?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
don't know a thing about that, but I've said that
I've done that more than once.
And I think you've heard meeven sit there and tell people
straight to the eye.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right, but you see where I'm going with this.
I think it's the same thingthat we do with authors, we do
it with lawyers, we do it withpeople who are in those
positions and do have a lot ofknowledge.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
We tend to automatically assume and
perceive them as someone who cantalk about anything.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I guess my point is is why in the world do we think,
just because you've got thislittle piece of paper and you've
went to school for umpteenyears, that you're smarter than
the rest of us?
I, I know very intelligent,very smart doctors who would not
know how to come out of thefreaking rain.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Right, I mean, there's my point, but yet I had
a science teacher in junior highwho was super smart, knew all
the stuff he didn't even need abook to teach from man, had no
common sense no, but yet we'retold, because this person has a
degree or something, we shouldlisten to them on everything.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Or are you with me on this?
I am having a problem because Idon't.
I don't want to take away fromthose people who do learn.
I mean, yes, you have to go toschool to become a doctor,
you've got to become an engineer.
There are certain skills youhave to learn.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I understand that I'm with you on this to a point.
I don't think it's somethingthat we're told.
I think it's just something wedo.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well, again, we're Gen X.
I think it's just something wedo.
Well, again, we're Gen X.
Yeah, all right, we were toldfor years.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Hey, if you're going to get ahead, you need to go to
college?
Yeah, but that doesn't mean wewere told that just because we
had a degree that people wouldtreat us like we knew everything
.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I'm sorry, no, I was literally told to my face from
teachers if you do not go tocollege, if you do not have a
degree, your life won't be worthanything.
Okay, but again, that doesn'tgo back to how people are going
to perceive you.
Well, again, is that not layingthat down, that these people
who got to go to college arebetter than you?
(07:00):
because they got to go tocollege and your life ain't
worth crap because you're just ahigh school dropout who happens
to own their own business and ahouse and all this other crap.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
But you're not as successful because you don't
have that piece of paper.
Is this not where this starts,where we're sort of told that
because you didn't do the debt,because you didn't do this, I
guess, so yeah.
Are you with me?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I think it could start there.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I don't really know why or where it started Because
I've always seen college as justa further of specific goals.
Mm-hmm.
That you know.
You go to college to learn howto be a chemist.
You go to college to learn.
You don't go to college tonecessarily learn how to work on
(07:49):
cars or build a house.
Right, you go, get those jobsand they teach you on them.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Unless it's a trade school Right.
And that's a trade school Right.
And that's what they're doingthey're teaching you how to run
a business.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
But even then I remember kids Growing up in high
school.
In the whole yon yards thetrade schools were sort of been
in special ed.
Trust me, they pushed thosereally, really hard and they did
not have a shame of sittingthere going well, you know,
y'all are special ed Right.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Well, I can't speak to that.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, I mean there's my point, though Y'all will
never get degrees.
You will never do this.
Y'all can only do these jobsbecause they want to look down
on the carpenters and thefarmers and all this other stuff
.
Yeah, all right.
I mean, I don't know too manykids that went around high
school going.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh god, I can't wait to grow up and be a plumber I
don't either, but but yeah, I,I'm sorry, I've hired plumbers.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
They're not making no small amount of money.
No they're not, I mean, you'rewith me.
So this is what's confusing mehere all Because, again, I see
low-skilled workers and all thisother stuff that actually make
good money in these industriesand stuff like that, but yet why
(09:08):
do we look down on them?
Why do we automatically assumethey're less knowledgeable just
because you don't have a pieceof paper?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
See, I can't answer that question.
I'm not that way.
You're not, Well, no becauseI'm the person I was always told
.
You know, yeah, you should goto college, you should get a
degree Right.
I was never told why.
I was never told what it woulddo for me any of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You were never told which degrees would.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It was just a goal.
Yeah, no, I was never toldwhich degrees were going to
actually help me in real life.
Right, it was just a goal toachieve, for whatever reason.
Again, I was given no reason,it was just something that was
pounded into my head.
You know, go to college,further your education.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, let's see.
Have you seen that commercialfrom I think it's Indeed and a
woman sitting down talking tothis guy?
And she's talking about gettinga job at the hotel and the
guy's sitting there going oh,you just need a degree, any
degree.
Mine's in dance.
Yeah, and she's like well, no,I went and studied and got
(10:17):
certifications and stuffspecifically to do this.
Yeah, why I don't?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I don't know but where I was going with that was.
Squirrel, squirrel when I wasgoing with that.
Was that coming from a lowerclass?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
family.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Right, my dad was a machinist, mom was a, an lpn
nurse.
You know, mama was like thebottom of the barrel and right
as far as the nursing field wentum, as you know, aside from
cnas.
But we struggled financially.
We didn't have a lot, so itwasn't, it wasn't something to
(10:58):
look down on, because I couldsee where these people were the
backbone of society essentially,and there were a lot of
intelligent people that daddyworked with, that mama worked
with.
We knew plumbers, we knew HVACpeople, we knew, you know, we
knew a bunch of people and I wasnever brought up to believe any
(11:21):
other way, but I was neverbrought up to believe that we
were not the scum of societyeither.
It's just something that Ideveloped on my own.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Right.
So I don't get.
I don't understand.
I'm like you.
I don't understand where thisidea comes from that.
Just because you have a degree,then therefore, you are up on a
throne somewhere.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well again and I see this behavior more magnified for
some reason in the pagancommunity as soon as someone
starts a podcast, as soon assomeone starts, writes a book
and gets published or whatever,suddenly they're put up onto
this freaking pedestal.
All right, but we don't, weshouldn't be doing that no, we
shouldn't.
I learned a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
You don't put people up on pedestals because they
just have further to fall.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Right.
I mean, there are many booksout there, there are many great
authors.
I'm not knocking the authors,I'm just saying, just because
you wrote a book, and especiallynowadays, because I can sit
here, I could write a book andbe published tomorrow.
Yeah, all right, it's calledself-publishing.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Anybody can do it, so where's the remarkable thing
about it anymore?
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I think the idea is, if you, if you, you
know as far as that goes, if youcan get a publishing company to
work with you, then you've gotthe reputation of that
publishing company behind you?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, but I'll make more money publishing on my own
instead of having to give thepublishing company a cut of the
money.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Right, but you won't have the marketing Again, you
won't have the reputation of thecompany.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Maybe not, but I see more and more people doing that.
I see our society moving moreand more to a more decentralized
type of lifestyle.
Mm-hmm.
All right To where you nolonger have the big corporations
of media and book companies andstuff like that.
(13:26):
They're finally being so.
You don't have thosegatekeepers anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, I think it could happen, I really do.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I mean, I see it happening now.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I know, but it it's gonna be a slow process to get
to the point where, no, we don'thave the publishing companies
anymore right or the, the bignetwork tvs and the big movie
production right, it's stillgonna take a while for all that
to go away, if it's gonnacompletely go away but how?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
now, now, now with all this, but seriously, with
all these gatekeeping factionthings falling apart, all right,
because they can't keep you outanymore no they can't keep you
off of youtube, they can't keepyou out from publishing, but
anymore.
How should we, how do you thinkwe should start seeing this now
?
well, should we start treatingthese industries like we treat
(14:18):
all social media.
What do you mean?
Well, I'm sorry.
When I go through social mediaI see a lot of stuff that I am
interested in and a lot of stuffI'm not.
I just skip over the stuff I'mnot and keep on going.
Well, I think that's kind of theway it's been anyway, and if I
don't- agree with something, Ijust tell it okay, just don't
(14:39):
show me anything from thischannel anymore.
I don't want anything else fromthis person and just keep on
moving on with my life but Ithink it's been that way even
when we had physical brick andmortar bookstores.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
There's still a few, but it's still the same thing If
you go into a bookstore there'ssections of books and you can
choose to bypass any section.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
But my point is but to get your book in a bookstore
you used to have to go through apublisher.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
True, yeah, All right there's my point.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
There's the gatekeeping.
Because, again back when wewere.
That's the only way you couldpublish a book.
Nowadays you don't have to.
I mean people self-publishmovies now.
Self-publish music.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Right, but with the social media the way it is now,
I don't think there's any otherway to treat it other than that
way.
You see something you like, youwatch it, or you listen to it,
or you know you purchase asubscription to it or whatever,
and if you don't, you just keepgoing.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You keep going.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
You downvote stuff you don't like, so you don't
have to see it again.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So why hasn't our community changed any based on
this?
Why in the world do we still?
Why do I still see people goingoh no, she's a publisher, or
they're a publisher and Bob areyou with me?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
That I don't know, because I mean now it's come
down to, like you said, podcasts, you know, books, whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Blogs.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's so prevalent now , right, you know, and anybody
can do it.
Does that mean everybody'sgoing to be a success?
No, no, we're not even asuccess, but we just do this.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
We're not even a success in our own community.
No, we just do this because wewant to.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But point is, with the way things are going now,
anybody can do this Right.
So I don't think there's anyreason to view it other than
this is an extension ofcommunication, it's an extension
of community.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
it should be bringing us closer together right, I
mean because again more voices,more information right there,
the better off.
You never know where that nextidea will come from.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Exactly you know, and I think that's the way it
should be treated.
So, even if you are a publishedauthor or you know a successful
podcaster or blogger orwhatever it is, you do quote,
unquote influencer right I don'tthink we should be treating
anybody any differently.
Well, say the one thing, thenwe would our next door neighbor.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The one thing I was hoping, with the media, social,
all of this kind of becomingwhat I say more decentralized
was, is that the idol worshipwould start to go away.
Are you?
Because that's what part ofthis is.
It's that whole Ooh star power,and everybody knows you.
When are we going to stop doingthat?
(17:48):
Because I'm sorry, I don't seewhere that should be anywhere,
part or close to our.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I like Scott Cunningham and thewhole nine yards.
I will recommend his books themajority of the time they're a
decent place to start in thewhole nine yards in his books.
The majority of the timethey're a decent place to start
in the whole nine yards.
But I'm not sitting herehanging my shingle off of his
(18:10):
writings.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You with me, but yet I know people who do Well
honestly, we need to getourselves into a mindset that
all of these people out heredoing these things and putting
their voices out there inwhatever format, these people
are no different than we are.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
They're no different.
They might be making a littlebit more money off of their
stuff.
They might not have to work afull-time job doing what they're
doing, and that's fine andthat's great Good for them,
right, it's the entrepreneurshipof America, right, right.
But that does not mean that we,like we've been saying we
(18:55):
shouldn't be putting them on apedestal.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We shouldn't be elevating them to a status they
don't have.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Well, yeah, I mean again.
It's the same behavior likewith doctors just because they
tell you to do something doesnot necessarily mean you have to
take their advice, right.
So, and then?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
but I think it's gonna.
It's just gonna take time toget ourselves into that mindset,
just like with me it.
You know it did take a longtime for me to realize.
Okay, a degree does not elevateyour status in society
whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
No.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
At least for me, it didn't.
I wasn't able to finish mydegree.
But the folks that I went toschool with, they got their
degrees.
It didn't elevate them anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I don't think the degree I got, even though it's
only an associate's degree, Idon't think it did too much for
me either, Except for sending medown paths I would have studied
by myself but over a longerperiod of time, right?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I think it just comes down to we have to realize
that does not elevate you inany way.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well, we have to realize going to school and
intelligence have nothing to dowith each other.
No they don't.
People learn stuff in placesother than schools other than
sitting down and just doing mathproblem after math problem.
All right, there are a lot ofpeople that learn stuff outside
of that.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, there are a lot of people that learn stuff
outside of that.
Yeah, I learned more outside ofhigh school and college than I
probably did in school.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well and this is going to be sad I learned more
about my math classes whiletrying to do my work, where I
actually had to use the math,versus me just trying to learn
it in school.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Right, that's kind of what I'm talking about.
I mean, if you can applywhatever it is to your daily
life, you're going to get moreout of it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean because it makes sense.
This is what I'm using this for.
This is why I have to get toknow this instead of the whole,
entire, you know, because whatwas that?
I had to learn how to do the inmath, how to calculate an arc.
If you're going to throwsomething, I'm sitting back
going, okay?
What does that have to do withmy degree, Right?
Not a damn thing.
(21:12):
Mm-mm.
So I've still never understoodthat, Just like I've never
understood schools going.
But we're trying to make youmore worldly by making you take
classes you don't care aboutright well, I don't care about
them to begin with.
What makes you think I'm goingto do them well?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
right.
It's just like with a lot ofyour classes.
You took to youtube and foundinstructional videos on shit and
you got more out of that thanyou did out of the classroom
well, yeah, because you could goback and re-watch it and you
could find similar videos and Icould pause it and think about
it right and hear it again.
(21:52):
Five more so I mean, do we, dowe really need that anymore?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
do we?
Do we even need school?
I mean, I I've argued this Ithink college, outside of being
for, except for engineers andspecific things like lawyers or
doctors and stuff like that, Idon't see the use of them.
No, I think, if we, I mean Iunderstand how an x-ray tech
(22:19):
needs to learn how to the humanbody, and all Right I think if
we treated it more like a tradeschool yes, and just did
specific trades.
And you learned what you neededto do this specific job and then
you moved on.
People would.
It would be cheaper, faster,easier and more people could do
it.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, it would be more efficient.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, In and of itself.
So I think that's about it.
Quit worshipping people justbecause they wrote a freaking
book or sung a song or do abroadcast Right.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Now let's go get some coffee.
God, let's go.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning
(23:37):
breaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
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