August 13, 2025 • 34 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Pegan Coffee Talk.
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
All right, so we're going to talk about elementals.
Oh boy, oh boy.
Let's first start with namesSilphs, salamanders, undines,
nymphs, gnomes uh, good, googlygoo, uh, phoenixes, river
(00:50):
spirits, well, spirits, firespirits.
Basically, pick your, pick yourelement and add the word spirit
to the end of it oh, good griefso oh, googly moogly for sure,
googly, moogly.
For sure, googly, moogly, okay.
So, first off, these are beingsthat exist mythologically,
(01:16):
right, spiritually, alchemicallyand to some extent, in the
human psyche, right, okay,there's esoteric tradition
involved in this.
The belief is that thesespirits, or the or elementals,
(01:37):
whatever you want to call them,inhabit the places where an
element dwells and rule over it.
They govern it, right, okay?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
in other words, you're going to find water,
spirits and lakes.
Rivers, yes.
Natural forms, yeah waterfalls.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know swimming pools I'm joking, uh, listen, I
will actually say this with theinvention of now, saltwater
pools, yes, yes, I would say ina chlorinated pool, hell, no,
they're going to run away fromthat as fast as I would.
But if you have a naturalswimming pool, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I don't see why not.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
They'd be like this looks cozy, let's post up.
So there's so much to this.
Yeesh, this is like pandora'sbox, okay, so, on one hand, most
of us and I would be very, veryquick to ask for citation for
(02:40):
anyone who could claim that theyknew we have no idea where
these came from.
No, we have no idea what theorigin of any of this is.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
we don't know where these words, the names, came
from none of it, and even theconcepts of some of them sort of
change from tradition totradition very much, all right
very much so, because well asianmore asian um religions.
See river spirits andinhabiting valleys.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, there's all kinds.
I mean, every culture has somekind of lore here.
Keep in mind, this is where weget mermaids.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
This is where we get phoenixes.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
This is where we get the big foots.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I mean hell throw in airbender you know it's all of
it.
You know it's the same thing,so it's all of it.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
you know it's the same thing.
So I think the big start pointis do we believe in them, do we?
I mean, do you believe thatthat mountain over there, that
sacred mountain over there, hasa mountain spirit attached to it
?
If you go in there and botherit, it might do something to you
.
No, are you with me?
Yes, now, on the other hand, Ican sit there and say I believe
that maybe certain whales mayhave certain spirits attached to
(03:54):
it.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
But here's how I look at it.
If it inspires awe and if itforces a human being to
acknowledge their smallness andacknowledge really just that,
how small we are in comparisonto the natural world, I do
(04:18):
believe something is fuelingthat.
I do believe that there areinhabitants of those places that
we cannot readily see, hear,touch, etc.
With our major faculties.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Right, and we're talking about beings that are
other than ghosts.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Oh yeah, if we look at water as an example other
than ghost.
Oh yeah, if we look at water asan example and we look at
salamanders, right, salamandersare really interesting because I
love when people go, have youever seen an elemental?
And I go, yes, I've seensalamanders.
Yeah, because I've literallyseen salamanders.
(05:06):
I've seen axolotls, which is atype of salamander you know like
, yeah, I've, I've seen tadpoles.
So, yes, I do believe.
And so, okay, well, I'm again,let me, let me stick with
salamanders for a minute allright salamanders are
fascinating because, as acreature, right right, most
naturalists and and people whoare, you know, just very well
(05:30):
versed in parks and natureelements and waterways will tell
you the sign of a healthyecosystem and a healthy waterway
fresh water salamanders.
Yeah, because if salamanderscannot survive nor reproduce if
(05:50):
the water is polluted, if it'simpure, if the conditions are
not literally perfect, right, Ican very easily see where our
ancestors saw them, as some kindof otherworldly creature.
Yes, I can also see where theselittle beings have a certain
(06:18):
measure of intelligence of theirown.
They are ecologically necessaryand I certainly want, wouldn't
want, to tread on them.
I wouldn't want to do anythingto damage their environment or
(06:39):
make them unhappy right rightright um, which is hard to say
because, like any time, likeI've walked through many a river
.
And it's funny because when yousee a salamander and you're, I
mean they're not happy thatyou're there, they can't be,
they're terrified.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Right, You've got this big ass creature that's
just walking right by you andyou're just.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, and when they dart out from a rock, let me
tell you they scare the snot outof you because you don't know
in that moment what it is, andsome salamanders are big and
they're very fast moving.
Yeah, so to me I go okay,logically, if they exist in
(07:22):
water although we do know, right, there's a lot of things that
exist in water, there's a lot ofmicroorganisms in water.
We know that life came fromwater Does that not mean that
these same things don't existunderground and we just don't
know it?
Do they exist in the air and wejust don't know it?
(07:42):
I mean, dust mites exist exist.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I mean there's a lot of microbiology, yeah, in soil
yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So the question is did our ancestors or did the
origin of these creatures comefrom a place of microbiome, or
is it something else entirely?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
I don't know you know , it's like people sitting there
wanting to get rid of certain.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'm sure the world would love it if we got rid of
mosquitoes, but we don't knowexactly what would happen it's
funny you say that, becausethere's actually um there's
science being done on this rightnow, about what would happen if
we eradicated mosquitoes.
Would it create an ecologicaldisaster or could we do it
(08:32):
without consequence?
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Right, I mean because we don't know.
We don't know.
You know, I mean that's justlike if all the bees disappear,
we're starving to death in notime.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
So do I think?
So Go back to what you weresaying about, like the spirit of
the mountain, you know well, Imean, do you?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I mean just like, like, like you, like I see on tv
and all this there's somethingthere.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
There's some unseen force against something greater
than me in that environment, butdo I think that it has to be
appeased or that it will getangry or even addictive?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
no, all right, or no you know, or that you need to go
by their shrine in their littleand light an incense, whatever
no, I believe they just areagain.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
They're not good nor bad.
They don't have agenda.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I don't think they really bother with us when we
are there?
Not really.
Yeah, whatever they're they're.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
We're just, we're insignificant to them, um.
So yeah, I don't really thinkon it beyond that, but I mean, I
do have a certain amount ofrespect for it on a grand scale.
Yes, um, do I think?
(09:54):
Okay?
So then here comes thisquestion, because this becomes a
big deal for a lot of pagans dothe elementals help us perform
magic?
Do our?
Should we be calling upon them,petitioning them?
Is there something they can do?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Well, there are a lot of things that they can do.
All right, and one of the bestthings that they can do is teach
you, but that's a differentscenario.
As far as magic and stuff likethat, I don't really call upon
them.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I don't either.
I don't either.
I view them a lot and so, so,interestingly, right, so the,
the earth elementals, are gnomes.
Right and when, when, when Ithink of any creature that is in
a multitude, right again, many,many, many, many, many more
than me, why would I call uponyou?
(10:52):
What you will be unruly.
Yes, you will be difficult tomanage.
You will have the attentionspan of well, you won't.
You won't have an attentionspan, you will.
You will be impossible.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well, again, when you summon a gnome, a gnome comes
and acts like a gnome.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Exactly.
But it would be like, okay, thebest way I can think of it, if
I'm going to summon the beingsof air, these are winged
creatures.
Why would I summon a swarm ofan insect?
They're going to wreak havoc.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I mean just imagine just getting birds.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I mean the belief that we could get them to
fall in line Mm-mm, mm-mm.
I don't.
I just don't see it beingreasonable.
They're going to be unrulylittle shits, yes, and I think
(11:50):
that what we have to be moreconcerned with and I will say
that this to me, I do believe Ibelieve I've seen this is that
you will have an elementalbecome interested in what you're
doing, yeah, and then theybecome a distraction and you
(12:11):
have to occupy them, you have togive them something to do.
So I find it kind of funny thatwhen a lot of people see it as,
oh, I have this bowl of wateras an offering to the elementals
of water, I'm like to me,that's not, that's not an
offering to them.
I'm going here, you go get inthe kiddie pool.
(12:32):
Yeah, this is, this is yours.
You, you stay here so that Ican do what I need to do, and
they're not a massivedistraction.
Yeah, that's that's how I viewit, it's.
I guess you could see that asappeasing.
Maybe, Maybe I mean.
This is where the old you knowspill salt, and they have to
(12:55):
count it Right.
Myths come from.
Yeah, you know what is it?
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Trolls yeah, you know um what is it trolls uh.
This is also going down thesame line as the uh shoe with
the the shoesmith yes, the, the,yeah, yeah, yeah, leave your
shoes out.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And the yeah, the cobbler.
And yeah, there's tons of thisstuff.
Elves, all of this, this iswhere it comes from, and anytime
we see these beings, think andI know it again, it's a little
juvenile, but think about how wehave them introduced to us as
children.
You know, the dwarves in SnowWhite are always busy doing
(13:33):
something right, they're miningthe elves.
Santa's elves are always busy.
They're little busy bodies,they're always doing something.
The Ewoks, right, I mean, comeon, the Ewoks were effectively
George Lucas's version of anelemental.
Yeah, they're.
Yeah, I mean, and I don't know,I don't know, I, I think, if
(14:06):
anything, they have the tendencyto be very naughty if you let
them, and we just have to workwithin that sometimes what they
do tend to be a little bitmischievous yes, and I think
that where this becomesimportant is that when you're
performing a ritual, it'sknowing and understanding that
if a particular element is goingsideways in your ritual, you
(14:30):
yeah, you've got a little bit ofmischief happening and you need
to get it under control.
Yeah, this is best you can.
I don't know, that's how I see.
I also think that modernwitches have too much science
and too much logic at ourdisposal to be overly concerned
(14:50):
with about these little guys.
Yeah, you know it would be like.
It would be like putting yourhead on your pillow every single
night and freaking out aboutthe bedbugs yeah, not bedbugs.
The dust mites, dust mites,bedbugs.
Bad Bedbugs, very bad.
No, dust mites your pillow everysingle night and freaking out
about the bed bugs, not bed bugs, the the dust mites that's my
bed bugs bad bed bugs very bad.
No dust mites that's my,because dust mites are freaking
everywhere.
Yes, so when you put your headon your pillow at night,
(15:12):
thousands, millions, right,billions of these things are
crawling on you yes, there areall of us now.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah I mean but okay what are you gonna do yeah?
There's who knows I mean therethere isn't a beneficial to
having these on us.
They, they, they eat our deadskin.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
They serve a purpose for sure, and I mean, who knows,
we may come to find eventuallythat much like salamanders is a
literal creature.
There are other elements thatthis exists, you know.
We might find that there infact are microorganisms that
survive in lava and magma.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
We just don't know.
Do you?
Do you think the names thatwell, these, these elementals,
these these creatures that we'retalking about, do you think
they might have beenmisrepresentative, like the
unicorn, where the unicorn mightbe rhinos, it's just anything
with a central, one horn is aunicorn, not the horse that we
(16:13):
see in mythology.
Are you with what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
there, maybe, maybe, maybe.
I mean, there's too manymythological choices.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
In other words, could a gnome actually be what used
to be a boring animal and theyjust but we transformed it into
what we think it is now?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Maybe it's very possible.
There's so many tales of all ofthese types of things and
different cultures havedifferent versions of them, and
a lot of times I find that to beI mean, it's, it's a little too
coincidental right.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I think it's kind of weird that out of all these four
elements and all thesecreatures, one is an actual
creature we can pick up, andwhen was the last time you saw
an undying?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So that makes me wonder was there an actual, and
we've called it something elsenow.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Maybe, or is it extinct, could be, you know, is
it something that once existedand now it doesn't?
I mean, I hate to say it.
We kill creatures all the time.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
We lose how many species each?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
year Uh-huh.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Of different.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, maybe there was something that existed that was
already pretty scarce or rareto begin with.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And now it's gone, gone, and so it becomes a thing
of legend.
I don't know, I don't know.
It's worth a ponder though itis, yeah, oh, let's talk about
symbols all right witches lovetheir symbols.
Yeah, I mean, people love theirsymbols really, right, right
(18:04):
it's more of a human thing thanit is a witch thing.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
That's true you know, I just think we have a little
bit more of them well, I don'tknow about that because I think
it depends on what you define asa symbol.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Right, I don't know what are you going to define as
a symbol?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
right, I don't know what are you going to define as
a symbol so well, let me ask youthis is a symbol and a sigil
the same thing, or is this?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
could be, can be.
Here's the thing anything thatrepresents something else is a
symbol right so words representare just symbols exactly yeah,
words aren't real not right, wename things because we need
(18:55):
something to call them right butthe color blue right, the very
word blue is just a symbol ofthe color we see.
Right, yeah, it could.
We could have just as easilycalled blue purple.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
It makes no damn difference.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Or you know, it could have been shrimp.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, exactly, it makes no difference.
I mean, that's, that's one ofthe things that makes language
so funny.
Yes, they're just symbols toexplain other things.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
And then when you have a language like English,
which is made up of a bunch ofother languages.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
You have other people's symbols mixed in.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I tend to like symbols All right.
They're an easy way to rememberhow to tell a story sometimes
they can be yeah you know,they're easy ways to remember
things, in the way I mean it wasthe first form of writing, with
the pictures and all this, yeah, and we don't understand them
because we don't remember thosestories now.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, I mean, it's just like Egyptian hieroglyphs
were a language right, that wastheir written language, but it's
also just individually, a bunchof symbols, symbols.
Asian cultures write the sameway.
So really, I think what thequestion becomes is, spiritually
(20:22):
, what makes a symbol spiritual?
Yeah, what makes us, what makesit special, what makes it
powerful?
Speaker 4 (20:30):
um, and again we're back to the lore behind them and
, yeah, the meanings and because, because the meanings can
change from one temple toanother oh of course you know
the way we describe how in theworld they, how you use the
symbol of the five-pointed starvaries from all the other
temples.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, not completely.
I mean, there's some, yeah somethat overlap, but it could vary
.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So technically there's not a wrong way to
interpret a symbol.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
No.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
There is no.
No, that symbol don't mean that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right, this is also why a lot of witches make up
their own language, or they usea sacred alphabet or a dead
alphabet.
There's a lot of different.
I mean really and truly.
Anything is a symbol, if youwant it to be.
Yeah, I mean really and trulyanything is a symbol, if you
want it to be.
This is also where thediscussion of, again the passing
(21:29):
of judgment, good words and badwords, good symbols and bad
symbols you know what I mean.
Like, the symbol itself meansnothing.
The problem is Hitler did a badthing.
Problem is Hitler did a badthing, the Nazis did a bad thing
, and now the swastika isforever tainted.
(21:50):
With that yes, because of theiractions.
So now it's a bad symbol.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
But I hate to ask this, but do you think that
stink will ever get off that Atsome point in the future when we
get far, far away from it?
And it's not such a.
It was in mine, in your facegrowing up.
Oh for sure, I mean.
I remember my grandfathersitting there in his chair
telling me stories of the wholenine yards and what it was like.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because we're not that removed from it.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Right.
But I'm talking about thegenerations that are coming up
that are removable.
They be able to eventually getthe stink off some of these
symbols maybe I think definitelya few generations down the line
.
It's possible, right, it's very, very possible or will it take
another evil character to comeon to corrupt a different symbol
(22:43):
, to make everybody hate that?
Are you with me?
I?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
don't know.
I mean like, look here's,here's how I I look at it, look
at it in the opposite.
So the mayan calendar, which ismade up of a bunch of symbols
right was once holy.
That was it was.
It was sacred and it.
I don't even know all the loreof the Mayan calendar.
I don't know all of the thingsabout it, but suffice it to say
(23:06):
that people at that timevenerated it and found it of
importance.
Now you can go to any homedecorating store and find
something with the Mayancalendar on it as a decoration
yeah yeah, and with zerospiritual connection or context.
(23:28):
It's just, oh, it's, it has todo with mexican culture, so
let's just put it out there,right, I think the uh, the
gravestone over one of the kingsis a flag.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Now the guy that looks like he might be in the
spaceship sure, the big, famousone.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Oh, oh, you know which one I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah, yeah I think that's actually.
I think I've seen that as aflag, or there's, but there's so
many things like that.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
We're also strangely reverting back meaning.
Man started out expressingconcept and symbols.
Cave drawings, you know, likeliterally, and write the
squiggles for the symbol ofwater, like look at the
alchemical table and you'll see.
You know the symbols.
(24:11):
Basically, we're going backthere, our emojis, nothing more,
that's all they are, they'remodern symbols.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
So we have come all this way to go, all the way back
this, this, this, this isactually starting to sound more
like you know here.
Eat this root.
No, don't eat root.
Eat drink tincture.
Yeah, and now we're back to theroot yeah, it's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I mean, when you go, I could have expressed how I
feel right about something intwo sentences, where now I can
just send a particular smileyface, right.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I mean, I mean, again it's doing the LOL yeah, All
right and the LOL is gone, theLOL has been replaced by the
crying emoji, the laugh cryingemoji, whatever, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So I do think it's interesting, because the want to
now shorten, the want to makethings simpler, is going to push
us further in that directionand it is going to change
language as we know it.
It's going to change ourwritten text and who know?
(25:22):
But you and I have long said,like the original smiley face
from the 60s Right that became abig part of the peace love, you
know hippie movement, all ofthat Like.
is somebody you know, is somedistant culture going to find
that one day and think that itwas a God that?
It was a symbol for somethinggreater.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I mean come on yeah, I mean that's like the whole
joke of you know, uh, these umarchaeologists go to this land
and start uncovering all thesestat, all these um monuments to
this god called atium yes, youwould go to and pray and get
something from them.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Right yeah, an ATM, an ATM machine.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah, exactly From a thousand years from now.
What will they?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
think about these.
That's what's so crazy.
I mean, a thousand years fromnow, will we even have currency?
You know it's not looking likeit, based on the way we're going
, I mean.
I mean no one will have cashanymore.
Cash won't be.
You know, there will not be aminting of currency.
I don't know.
Symbols change, they evolve,but ultimately what gives a
(26:39):
symbol power is the use of itall right it's the use and the
meaning you subscribe to it allright.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Well, let me ask you this do you think there are just
coarse symbols?
Because I keep on seeing thesame symbols over the years,
used over and over you know whatI mean.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yes, they're either circles, or they're squares, or
they're just certain shapes yes,because I think there are
certain shapes that we'vealready done a really good job
of giving meaning to and we justcontinue to use it because it's
convenient.
It's already been done,everybody recognizes it.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Don't fix something that ain't right.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
also, in an age now where a lot of people are making
their own right they'rebuilding their own sigils,
they're creating their own sealsit's gonna cause a lot of
confusion later maybe maybebecause okay I I lean more.
It will cause confusion morethan it's gonna be hard.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
It's gonna be really, really hard to decipher certain
things unless that person lefta key or something yeah, to be
able to decipher it you knowwell, I mean, I sort of put this
up to like the, the paintersthey paint.
Here I'm painting this emotion,here, it is right, I'm painting
(28:01):
this feeling.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
There's a lot of interpretation with art, for
sure, but art ultimately cangive way to symbols.
Well, there's, my question iswhen does it become a symbol
versus art?
When we start using it in aparticular fashion, when we
start using it to representsomething else?
(28:24):
Okay, you know, start using itto represent something else okay
, you know.
So I'm trying to think of agood example and I'm actually
coming up kind of blank on this.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Um, so I'm sitting here trying to think of an art
that I think it's become asymbol, now more than I mean the
styles certainly become asymbol um you know what?
You know what picture hasbecome a symbol?
Is the picture from earth, fromspace?
Yeah it's a picture.
It was art to begin with andagain it is.
(28:58):
Art is not a real pictures kindof put together right, it has
became a symbol, but yeah, tosome extent it has.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
But I think about things like okay, so the artist.
I think his first name is david.
I think it's david coons.
Coons was the guy who didballoon animals right and it was
a whole pop culture phenomenonof balloon animals, right, right
, right.
And he, but he, this dog, thisballoon animal dog that he made,
(29:30):
has become a symbol of thatentire style of pop art.
Right, so it's one in the same.
I think about Andy Warhol it'skind of the same thing, you know
, his, his Campbell's soup can,or Marilyn Monroe has become a
symbol for that era.
We could say the same thingabout Van Gogh.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
To some extent there's now what about things
like like the um, oh uh, theFerris wheel, the big Ferris
wheel in england that's sort ofbecome an icon of yeah, I mean
it's people.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
People recognize the city because of it right.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I mean, it's just like the we could say that right
, we could say out of buildingstoo.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I mean the statue of liberty, that you know.
All of it same thing.
And the statue of liberty is agood example.
Yeah, her head symbolizes thenew world for people, the
freedom, what america issupposed to stand for, despite
what's going on right now.
Right, all of that fun stuff.
Sorry, I couldn't help it.
I couldn't help it.
I had to get a little politicalfor just like a quarter of a
(30:36):
second, I know.
Um, but that, but thatsymbolism.
You know that artist.
I mean what they were doing atthe time.
I I think they knew it wasimportant.
They didn't know it was goingto become that important.
And she's not the only one.
She's a replica.
Yeah, yeah, there's more thanone statue of liberty.
(30:58):
So I mean there's, there's alot of different types of those
things.
I think, if we go all the wayback, the, the venus's, the
venus of willendorf is probablythe most famous popular one
where you have to be not popularyet famous.
You know, she was a little.
We assume fertility statue, weassume that she was a fertility
(31:23):
goddess for the people whocreated her right.
But whether or not that's true,that's the meaning we've given
it.
That's the meaning.
Yes, so now she is a symbol ofthat?
I don't know, I really don'tknow.
I mean, there's so many thingslike that.
(31:44):
We just because humans willevolve how they see certain
things go with it yeah, there's.
There's a lot of application forsome symbology, right in every
faith, but I think apractitioner has to really work
(32:09):
with it for themselves to gain atrue understanding and the
power within it.
I mean even math, as wild asthat sounds right yeah, yeah, I
mean yeah it.
There's math, and then there'ssacred math, yeah.
Just saying it's pretty wildstuff, I don't know.
(32:32):
Tarot.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Again symbols.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, symbols.
Most divination has symbols insome way.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
We definitely give it a lot of power.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean it's very prevalent, we use them all the
time, and I don't think werealize how much we use them.
I don't think so either.
Well, I think, yeah.
I think witches do.
I think more so than otheraspects of culture, yeah, but I
think a lot of people on aday-to-day just take them for
granted.
Something to think about overmore coffee.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Oh, yes, please more coffee.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thanks for listening.
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Speaker 3 (33:31):
As we pass by a sea of blazing fires, and so it is
the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
(33:55):
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
All right, so we're going to talk about elementals.
Oh boy, oh boy.
Let's first start with namesSilphs, salamanders, undines,
nymphs, gnomes uh, good, googlygoo, uh, phoenixes, river
(00:50):
spirits, well, spirits, firespirits.
Basically, pick your, pick yourelement and add the word spirit
to the end of it oh, good griefso oh, googly moogly for sure,
googly, moogly.
For sure, googly, moogly, okay.
So, first off, these are beingsthat exist mythologically,
(01:16):
right, spiritually, alchemicallyand to some extent, in the
human psyche, right, okay,there's esoteric tradition
involved in this.
The belief is that thesespirits, or the or elementals,
(01:37):
whatever you want to call them,inhabit the places where an
element dwells and rule over it.
They govern it, right, okay?
Speaker 4 (01:48):
in other words, you're going to find water,
spirits and lakes.
Rivers, yes.
Natural forms, yeah waterfalls.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know swimming pools I'm joking, uh, listen, I
will actually say this with theinvention of now, saltwater
pools, yes, yes, I would say ina chlorinated pool, hell, no,
they're going to run away fromthat as fast as I would.
But if you have a naturalswimming pool, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I don't see why not.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
They'd be like this looks cozy, let's post up.
So there's so much to this.
Yeesh, this is like pandora'sbox, okay, so, on one hand, most
of us and I would be very, veryquick to ask for citation for
(02:40):
anyone who could claim that theyknew we have no idea where
these came from.
No, we have no idea what theorigin of any of this is.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
we don't know where these words, the names, came
from none of it, and even theconcepts of some of them sort of
change from tradition totradition very much, all right
very much so, because well asianmore asian um religions.
See river spirits andinhabiting valleys.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, there's all kinds.
I mean, every culture has somekind of lore here.
Keep in mind, this is where weget mermaids.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
This is where we get phoenixes.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
This is where we get the big foots.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I mean hell throw in airbender you know it's all of
it.
You know it's the same thing,so it's all of it.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
you know it's the same thing.
So I think the big start pointis do we believe in them, do we?
I mean, do you believe thatthat mountain over there, that
sacred mountain over there, hasa mountain spirit attached to it
?
If you go in there and botherit, it might do something to you
.
No, are you with me?
Yes, now, on the other hand, Ican sit there and say I believe
that maybe certain whales mayhave certain spirits attached to
(03:54):
it.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
But here's how I look at it.
If it inspires awe and if itforces a human being to
acknowledge their smallness andacknowledge really just that,
how small we are in comparisonto the natural world, I do
(04:18):
believe something is fuelingthat.
I do believe that there areinhabitants of those places that
we cannot readily see, hear,touch, etc.
With our major faculties.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Right, and we're talking about beings that are
other than ghosts.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Oh yeah, if we look at water as an example other
than ghost.
Oh yeah, if we look at water asan example and we look at
salamanders, right, salamandersare really interesting because I
love when people go, have youever seen an elemental?
And I go, yes, I've seensalamanders.
Yeah, because I've literallyseen salamanders.
(05:06):
I've seen axolotls, which is atype of salamander you know like
, yeah, I've, I've seen tadpoles.
So, yes, I do believe.
And so, okay, well, I'm again,let me, let me stick with
salamanders for a minute allright salamanders are
fascinating because, as acreature, right right, most
naturalists and and people whoare, you know, just very well
(05:30):
versed in parks and natureelements and waterways will tell
you the sign of a healthyecosystem and a healthy waterway
fresh water salamanders.
Yeah, because if salamanderscannot survive nor reproduce if
(05:50):
the water is polluted, if it'simpure, if the conditions are
not literally perfect, right, Ican very easily see where our
ancestors saw them, as some kindof otherworldly creature.
Yes, I can also see where theselittle beings have a certain
(06:18):
measure of intelligence of theirown.
They are ecologically necessaryand I certainly want, wouldn't
want, to tread on them.
I wouldn't want to do anythingto damage their environment or
(06:39):
make them unhappy right rightright um, which is hard to say
because, like any time, likeI've walked through many a river
.
And it's funny because when yousee a salamander and you're, I
mean they're not happy thatyou're there, they can't be,
they're terrified.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Right, You've got this big ass creature that's
just walking right by you andyou're just.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, and when they dart out from a rock, let me
tell you they scare the snot outof you because you don't know
in that moment what it is, andsome salamanders are big and
they're very fast moving.
Yeah, so to me I go okay,logically, if they exist in
(07:22):
water although we do know, right, there's a lot of things that
exist in water, there's a lot ofmicroorganisms in water.
We know that life came fromwater Does that not mean that
these same things don't existunderground and we just don't
know it?
Do they exist in the air and wejust don't know it?
(07:42):
I mean, dust mites exist exist.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I mean there's a lot of microbiology, yeah, in soil
yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So the question is did our ancestors or did the
origin of these creatures comefrom a place of microbiome, or
is it something else entirely?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
I don't know you know , it's like people sitting there
wanting to get rid of certain.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'm sure the world would love it if we got rid of
mosquitoes, but we don't knowexactly what would happen it's
funny you say that, becausethere's actually um there's
science being done on this rightnow, about what would happen if
we eradicated mosquitoes.
Would it create an ecologicaldisaster or could we do it
(08:32):
without consequence?
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Right, I mean because we don't know.
We don't know.
You know, I mean that's justlike if all the bees disappear,
we're starving to death in notime.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
So do I think?
So Go back to what you weresaying about, like the spirit of
the mountain, you know well, Imean, do you?
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I mean just like, like, like you, like I see on tv
and all this there's somethingthere.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
There's some unseen force against something greater
than me in that environment, butdo I think that it has to be
appeased or that it will getangry or even addictive?
Speaker 4 (09:11):
no, all right, or no you know, or that you need to go
by their shrine in their littleand light an incense, whatever
no, I believe they just areagain.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
They're not good nor bad.
They don't have agenda.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I don't think they really bother with us when we
are there?
Not really.
Yeah, whatever they're they're.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
We're just, we're insignificant to them, um.
So yeah, I don't really thinkon it beyond that, but I mean, I
do have a certain amount ofrespect for it on a grand scale.
Yes, um, do I think?
(09:54):
Okay?
So then here comes thisquestion, because this becomes a
big deal for a lot of pagans dothe elementals help us perform
magic?
Do our?
Should we be calling upon them,petitioning them?
Is there something they can do?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Well, there are a lot of things that they can do.
All right, and one of the bestthings that they can do is teach
you, but that's a differentscenario.
As far as magic and stuff likethat, I don't really call upon
them.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I don't either.
I don't either.
I view them a lot and so, so,interestingly, right, so the,
the earth elementals, are gnomes.
Right and when, when, when Ithink of any creature that is in
a multitude, right again, many,many, many, many, many more
than me, why would I call uponyou?
(10:52):
What you will be unruly.
Yes, you will be difficult tomanage.
You will have the attentionspan of well, you won't.
You won't have an attentionspan, you will.
You will be impossible.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well, again, when you summon a gnome, a gnome comes
and acts like a gnome.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Exactly.
But it would be like, okay, thebest way I can think of it, if
I'm going to summon the beingsof air, these are winged
creatures.
Why would I summon a swarm ofan insect?
They're going to wreak havoc.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I mean just imagine just getting birds.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I mean the belief that we could get them to
fall in line Mm-mm, mm-mm.
I don't.
I just don't see it beingreasonable.
They're going to be unrulylittle shits, yes, and I think
(11:50):
that what we have to be moreconcerned with and I will say
that this to me, I do believe Ibelieve I've seen this is that
you will have an elementalbecome interested in what you're
doing, yeah, and then theybecome a distraction and you
(12:11):
have to occupy them, you have togive them something to do.
So I find it kind of funny thatwhen a lot of people see it as,
oh, I have this bowl of wateras an offering to the elementals
of water, I'm like to me,that's not, that's not an
offering to them.
I'm going here, you go get inthe kiddie pool.
(12:32):
Yeah, this is, this is yours.
You, you stay here so that Ican do what I need to do, and
they're not a massivedistraction.
Yeah, that's that's how I viewit, it's.
I guess you could see that asappeasing.
Maybe, Maybe I mean.
This is where the old you knowspill salt, and they have to
(12:55):
count it Right.
Myths come from.
Yeah, you know what is it?
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Trolls yeah, you know um what is it trolls uh.
This is also going down thesame line as the uh shoe with
the the shoesmith yes, the, the,yeah, yeah, yeah, leave your
shoes out.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And the yeah, the cobbler.
And yeah, there's tons of thisstuff.
Elves, all of this, this iswhere it comes from, and anytime
we see these beings, think andI know it again, it's a little
juvenile, but think about how wehave them introduced to us as
children.
You know, the dwarves in SnowWhite are always busy doing
(13:33):
something right, they're miningthe elves.
Santa's elves are always busy.
They're little busy bodies,they're always doing something.
The Ewoks, right, I mean, comeon, the Ewoks were effectively
George Lucas's version of anelemental.
Yeah, they're.
Yeah, I mean, and I don't know,I don't know, I, I think, if
(14:06):
anything, they have the tendencyto be very naughty if you let
them, and we just have to workwithin that sometimes what they
do tend to be a little bitmischievous yes, and I think
that where this becomesimportant is that when you're
performing a ritual, it'sknowing and understanding that
if a particular element is goingsideways in your ritual, you
(14:30):
yeah, you've got a little bit ofmischief happening and you need
to get it under control.
Yeah, this is best you can.
I don't know, that's how I see.
I also think that modernwitches have too much science
and too much logic at ourdisposal to be overly concerned
(14:50):
with about these little guys.
Yeah, you know it would be like.
It would be like putting yourhead on your pillow every single
night and freaking out aboutthe bedbugs yeah, not bedbugs.
The dust mites, dust mites,bedbugs.
Bad Bedbugs, very bad.
No, dust mites your pillow everysingle night and freaking out
about the bed bugs, not bed bugs, the the dust mites that's my
bed bugs bad bed bugs very bad.
No dust mites that's my,because dust mites are freaking
everywhere.
Yes, so when you put your headon your pillow at night,
(15:12):
thousands, millions, right,billions of these things are
crawling on you yes, there areall of us now.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah I mean but okay what are you gonna do yeah?
There's who knows I mean therethere isn't a beneficial to
having these on us.
They, they, they eat our deadskin.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
They serve a purpose for sure, and I mean, who knows,
we may come to find eventuallythat much like salamanders is a
literal creature.
There are other elements thatthis exists, you know.
We might find that there infact are microorganisms that
survive in lava and magma.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
We just don't know.
Do you?
Do you think the names thatwell, these, these elementals,
these these creatures that we'retalking about, do you think
they might have beenmisrepresentative, like the
unicorn, where the unicorn mightbe rhinos, it's just anything
with a central, one horn is aunicorn, not the horse that we
(16:13):
see in mythology.
Are you with what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
there, maybe, maybe, maybe.
I mean, there's too manymythological choices.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
In other words, could a gnome actually be what used
to be a boring animal and theyjust but we transformed it into
what we think it is now?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Maybe it's very possible.
There's so many tales of all ofthese types of things and
different cultures havedifferent versions of them, and
a lot of times I find that to beI mean, it's, it's a little too
coincidental right.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I think it's kind of weird that out of all these four
elements and all thesecreatures, one is an actual
creature we can pick up, andwhen was the last time you saw
an undying?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
So that makes me wonder was there an actual, and
we've called it something elsenow.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Maybe, or is it extinct, could be, you know, is
it something that once existedand now it doesn't?
I mean, I hate to say it.
We kill creatures all the time.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
We lose how many species each?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
year Uh-huh.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Of different.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, maybe there was something that existed that was
already pretty scarce or rareto begin with.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
And now it's gone, gone, and so it becomes a thing
of legend.
I don't know, I don't know.
It's worth a ponder though itis, yeah, oh, let's talk about
symbols all right witches lovetheir symbols.
Yeah, I mean, people love theirsymbols really, right, right
(18:04):
it's more of a human thing thanit is a witch thing.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
That's true you know, I just think we have a little
bit more of them well, I don'tknow about that because I think
it depends on what you define asa symbol.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Right, I don't know what are you going to define as
a symbol?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
right, I don't know what are you going to define as
a symbol so well, let me ask youthis is a symbol and a sigil
the same thing, or is this?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
could be, can be.
Here's the thing anything thatrepresents something else is a
symbol right so words representare just symbols exactly yeah,
words aren't real not right, wename things because we need
(18:55):
something to call them right butthe color blue right, the very
word blue is just a symbol ofthe color we see.
Right, yeah, it could.
We could have just as easilycalled blue purple.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
It makes no damn difference.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Or you know, it could have been shrimp.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, exactly, it makes no difference.
I mean, that's, that's one ofthe things that makes language
so funny.
Yes, they're just symbols toexplain other things.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
And then when you have a language like English,
which is made up of a bunch ofother languages.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
You have other people's symbols mixed in.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I tend to like symbols All right.
They're an easy way to rememberhow to tell a story sometimes
they can be yeah you know,they're easy ways to remember
things, in the way I mean it wasthe first form of writing, with
the pictures and all this, yeah, and we don't understand them
because we don't remember thosestories now.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, I mean, it's just like Egyptian hieroglyphs
were a language right, that wastheir written language, but it's
also just individually, a bunchof symbols, symbols.
Asian cultures write the sameway.
So really, I think what thequestion becomes is, spiritually
(20:22):
, what makes a symbol spiritual?
Yeah, what makes us, what makesit special, what makes it
powerful?
Speaker 4 (20:30):
um, and again we're back to the lore behind them and
, yeah, the meanings and because, because the meanings can
change from one temple toanother oh of course you know
the way we describe how in theworld they, how you use the
symbol of the five-pointed starvaries from all the other
temples.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, not completely.
I mean, there's some, yeah somethat overlap, but it could vary
.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So technically there's not a wrong way to
interpret a symbol.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
No.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
There is no.
No, that symbol don't mean that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Right, this is also why a lot of witches make up
their own language, or they usea sacred alphabet or a dead
alphabet.
There's a lot of different.
I mean really and truly.
Anything is a symbol, if youwant it to be.
Yeah, I mean really and trulyanything is a symbol, if you
want it to be.
This is also where thediscussion of, again the passing
(21:29):
of judgment, good words and badwords, good symbols and bad
symbols you know what I mean.
Like, the symbol itself meansnothing.
The problem is Hitler did a badthing.
Problem is Hitler did a badthing, the Nazis did a bad thing
, and now the swastika isforever tainted.
(21:50):
With that yes, because of theiractions.
So now it's a bad symbol.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
But I hate to ask this, but do you think that
stink will ever get off that Atsome point in the future when we
get far, far away from it?
And it's not such a.
It was in mine, in your facegrowing up.
Oh for sure, I mean.
I remember my grandfathersitting there in his chair
telling me stories of the wholenine yards and what it was like.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because we're not that removed from it.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Right.
But I'm talking about thegenerations that are coming up
that are removable.
They be able to eventually getthe stink off some of these
symbols maybe I think definitelya few generations down the line
.
It's possible, right, it's very, very possible or will it take
another evil character to comeon to corrupt a different symbol
(22:43):
, to make everybody hate that?
Are you with me?
I?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
don't know.
I mean like, look here's,here's how I I look at it, look
at it in the opposite.
So the mayan calendar, which ismade up of a bunch of symbols
right was once holy.
That was it was.
It was sacred and it.
I don't even know all the loreof the Mayan calendar.
I don't know all of the thingsabout it, but suffice it to say
(23:06):
that people at that timevenerated it and found it of
importance.
Now you can go to any homedecorating store and find
something with the Mayancalendar on it as a decoration
yeah yeah, and with zerospiritual connection or context.
(23:28):
It's just, oh, it's, it has todo with mexican culture, so
let's just put it out there,right, I think the uh, the
gravestone over one of the kingsis a flag.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Now the guy that looks like he might be in the
spaceship sure, the big, famousone.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Oh, oh, you know which one I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah, yeah I think that's actually.
I think I've seen that as aflag, or there's, but there's so
many things like that.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
We're also strangely reverting back meaning.
Man started out expressingconcept and symbols.
Cave drawings, you know, likeliterally, and write the
squiggles for the symbol ofwater, like look at the
alchemical table and you'll see.
You know the symbols.
(24:11):
Basically, we're going backthere, our emojis, nothing more,
that's all they are, they'remodern symbols.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
So we have come all this way to go, all the way back
this, this, this, this isactually starting to sound more
like you know here.
Eat this root.
No, don't eat root.
Eat drink tincture.
Yeah, and now we're back to theroot yeah, it's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I mean, when you go, I could have expressed how I
feel right about something intwo sentences, where now I can
just send a particular smileyface, right.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I mean, I mean, again it's doing the LOL yeah, All
right and the LOL is gone, theLOL has been replaced by the
crying emoji, the laugh cryingemoji, whatever, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So I do think it's interesting, because the want to
now shorten, the want to makethings simpler, is going to push
us further in that directionand it is going to change
language as we know it.
It's going to change ourwritten text and who know?
(25:22):
But you and I have long said,like the original smiley face
from the 60s Right that became abig part of the peace love, you
know hippie movement, all ofthat Like.
is somebody you know, is somedistant culture going to find
that one day and think that itwas a God that?
It was a symbol for somethinggreater.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I mean come on yeah, I mean that's like the whole
joke of you know, uh, these umarchaeologists go to this land
and start uncovering all thesestat, all these um monuments to
this god called atium yes, youwould go to and pray and get
something from them.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Right yeah, an ATM, an ATM machine.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah, exactly From a thousand years from now.
What will they?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
think about these.
That's what's so crazy.
I mean, a thousand years fromnow, will we even have currency?
You know it's not looking likeit, based on the way we're going
, I mean.
I mean no one will have cashanymore.
Cash won't be.
You know, there will not be aminting of currency.
I don't know.
Symbols change, they evolve,but ultimately what gives a
(26:39):
symbol power is the use of itall right it's the use and the
meaning you subscribe to it allright.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Well, let me ask you this do you think there are just
coarse symbols?
Because I keep on seeing thesame symbols over the years,
used over and over you know whatI mean.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yes, they're either circles, or they're squares, or
they're just certain shapes yes,because I think there are
certain shapes that we'vealready done a really good job
of giving meaning to and we justcontinue to use it because it's
convenient.
It's already been done,everybody recognizes it.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Don't fix something that ain't right.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
also, in an age now where a lot of people are making
their own right they'rebuilding their own sigils,
they're creating their own sealsit's gonna cause a lot of
confusion later maybe maybebecause okay I I lean more.
It will cause confusion morethan it's gonna be hard.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
It's gonna be really, really hard to decipher certain
things unless that person lefta key or something yeah, to be
able to decipher it you knowwell, I mean, I sort of put this
up to like the, the paintersthey paint.
Here I'm painting this emotion,here, it is right, I'm painting
(28:01):
this feeling.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
There's a lot of interpretation with art, for
sure, but art ultimately cangive way to symbols.
Well, there's, my question iswhen does it become a symbol
versus art?
When we start using it in aparticular fashion, when we
start using it to representsomething else?
(28:24):
Okay, you know, start using itto represent something else okay
, you know.
So I'm trying to think of agood example and I'm actually
coming up kind of blank on this.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Um, so I'm sitting here trying to think of an art
that I think it's become asymbol, now more than I mean the
styles certainly become asymbol um you know what?
You know what picture hasbecome a symbol?
Is the picture from earth, fromspace?
Yeah it's a picture.
It was art to begin with andagain it is.
(28:58):
Art is not a real pictures kindof put together right, it has
became a symbol, but yeah, tosome extent it has.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
But I think about things like okay, so the artist.
I think his first name is david.
I think it's david coons.
Coons was the guy who didballoon animals right and it was
a whole pop culture phenomenonof balloon animals, right, right
, right.
And he, but he, this dog, thisballoon animal dog that he made,
(29:30):
has become a symbol of thatentire style of pop art.
Right, so it's one in the same.
I think about Andy Warhol it'skind of the same thing, you know
, his, his Campbell's soup can,or Marilyn Monroe has become a
symbol for that era.
We could say the same thingabout Van Gogh.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
To some extent there's now what about things
like like the um, oh uh, theFerris wheel, the big Ferris
wheel in england that's sort ofbecome an icon of yeah, I mean
it's people.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
People recognize the city because of it right.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I mean, it's just like the we could say that right
, we could say out of buildingstoo.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I mean the statue of liberty, that you know.
All of it same thing.
And the statue of liberty is agood example.
Yeah, her head symbolizes thenew world for people, the
freedom, what america issupposed to stand for, despite
what's going on right now.
Right, all of that fun stuff.
Sorry, I couldn't help it.
I couldn't help it.
I had to get a little politicalfor just like a quarter of a
(30:36):
second, I know.
Um, but that, but thatsymbolism.
You know that artist.
I mean what they were doing atthe time.
I I think they knew it wasimportant.
They didn't know it was goingto become that important.
And she's not the only one.
She's a replica.
Yeah, yeah, there's more thanone statue of liberty.
(30:58):
So I mean there's, there's alot of different types of those
things.
I think, if we go all the wayback, the, the venus's, the
venus of willendorf is probablythe most famous popular one
where you have to be not popularyet famous.
You know, she was a little.
We assume fertility statue, weassume that she was a fertility
(31:23):
goddess for the people whocreated her right.
But whether or not that's true,that's the meaning we've given
it.
That's the meaning.
Yes, so now she is a symbol ofthat?
I don't know, I really don'tknow.
I mean, there's so many thingslike that.
(31:44):
We just because humans willevolve how they see certain
things go with it yeah, there's.
There's a lot of application forsome symbology, right in every
faith, but I think apractitioner has to really work
(32:09):
with it for themselves to gain atrue understanding and the
power within it.
I mean even math, as wild asthat sounds right yeah, yeah, I
mean yeah it.
There's math, and then there'ssacred math, yeah.
Just saying it's pretty wildstuff, I don't know.
(32:32):
Tarot.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Again symbols.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, symbols.
Most divination has symbols insome way.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
We definitely give it a lot of power.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean it's very prevalent, we use them all the
time, and I don't think werealize how much we use them.
I don't think so either.
Well, I think, yeah.
I think witches do.
I think more so than otheraspects of culture, yeah, but I
think a lot of people on aday-to-day just take them for
granted.
Something to think about overmore coffee.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Oh, yes, please more coffee.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
As we pass by a sea of blazing fires, and so it is
the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
(33:55):
our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, thank you.
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