October 1, 2025 • 25 mins
The magical world of witches has captivated audiences for generations, but how accurately does Hollywood portray the reality of witchcraft?
Remember the cackling hag from Snow White or the Wicked Witch of the West? These early portrayals established witches as figures to be feared and reviled. Fast forward to Bewitched's Samantha Stevens, who used her nose-twitching powers while living as a suburban housewife, marking a significant shift toward more sympathetic representations. Modern shows like The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and Agatha All Along have further transformed witches into powerful, fashionable icons that viewers aspire to emulate.
While Hollywood focuses on spectacular magical powers and dramatic spellcasting, real witchcraft centers on knowledge, wisdom, and religious devotion. Surprisingly, the most accurate portrayal might be the seemingly boring "The Good Witch," precisely because it depicts a witch using intuition and wisdom rather than flashy magic.
This disconnect between media representation and reality creates unrealistic expectations. What's needed isn't less magic in media but more acknowledgment of the religious context in which these practices exist.
Curious about authentic witchcraft beyond Hollywood's glamorized version? Connect with us through our social channels and discover the fascinating reality behind the myths. The truth may be less spectacular than fiction, but it's infinitely more meaningful.
Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
SPEAKER_04 (00:25):
Let's talk about witches in the news.
SPEAKER_03 (00:28):
Let's just talk about witchcraft and medium.
Alright?
SPEAKER_04 (00:31):
Well, what's the difference?
What do you what are youthinking?
SPEAKER_03 (00:34):
Well, I'm I'm I'm thinking, okay, well, the first
witch we saw on the screen wasWizard of Oz.
Oh, you mean media?
SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:45):
I mean, again, what was the bet what do you think
the best show that representswitchcraft?
Yepes.
Let's let's talk about this.
I mean, what you got hold on.
Let's let's name off the shows.
You got what?
First of all, you got Wizard ofOz.
SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
Oh man.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00):
Then then you brought Bewitched.
Uh Tucker's Wife.
All right.
Tucker's Wife was about a witchthat I don't remember it, but
yeah.
Yeah, they they solved crimes.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12):
Technically, you could put I Dream of Jeannie.
SPEAKER_03 (01:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (01:17):
Right.
Um, oh my gosh.
The craft, the movie, obviously.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
No, no, don't forget.
The Good Witch.
SPEAKER_04 (01:24):
The Good Witch.
Sabrina the Teenage Witch.
Cartoon and Practical Magic.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (01:31):
Um, The Witches of East Witch.
Okay, we can keep going,Hellbater.
I mean, there's a lot of things.
Oh boy.
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (01:38):
So which ones were good?
And then again, and we stillhave Agnes all along.
So which ones, which what wasactually good?
What was bad?
Oh practical.
We're talking practical magicand I'm not even bringing anime
in advance.
SPEAKER_04 (01:56):
Yeah, I mean, you have um oh, there's so many.
This is crazy.
Um, okay, so let's let's allright.
So you start, let's go back tothe origin.
All right, so the first okay, sothe first vision I have in my
head of a witch is not theWizard of Oz.
It's Snow White.
(02:17):
It is the Snow White cartoon,and it is the old hag with the
apple.
SPEAKER_03 (02:22):
Funny, when I think of witches, the first thing I
think of is Narnia and the WhiteWitch at the beginning.
SPEAKER_04 (02:30):
Okay.
Yeah, I think cartoons.
I mean, the other one I pictureis, you know, from Warner
Brothers.
Yada.
SPEAKER_03 (02:37):
She, you know, was Yeah, the old the the old Lindy
Tune Witch.
SPEAKER_04 (02:42):
Yeah, and she was trying to cook Bugs Money.
Um good God.
So which ones are good, whichones are bad?
SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Um are you ready for this?
I want to tell you, the the theshow I think actually gave the
best of what we really are, thegood witch.
SPEAKER_04 (03:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (03:02):
The most boring show ever.
Interesting.
The good witch is actuallyprobably closer to what where we
actually are versus any of theothers.
SPEAKER_04 (03:10):
I mean, I think that the newer stuff has definitely
gotten better.
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:15):
I think that the newer material, especially the
mythological, has really gottena lot of it right.
You know, like I just finishedwatching The Sandman on Netflix.
Oh, God.
And oh, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:30):
Well, I again watching anything Vikings now,
the myths are a whole lot morefor sure.
And anything Celtic, it's alittle bit better than what it
used to be.
SPEAKER_04 (03:41):
Oh, yeah.
You know, and obviously, becausepeople have such a different
view of magic and witchcraftnow, we've gone from it.
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
Used to be the hag, the old, crotchety, ugly, the
green space, the jealousy, andthe nose.
SPEAKER_04 (04:05):
Yeah, she was always angry and full of vengeance, and
you know, she used her magicpoorly.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
And now we have this complete opposite end of the
spectrum, which is thisglorification of a witch not
only as beautiful and powerful,and you know, as the heroine, uh
it's sort of turned up to silkysuede to the point to where
(04:36):
okay, just watching it gives mea cavity.
SPEAKER_04 (04:38):
Well, I don't know about that.
I think it's just again, it'sit's that glorification.
We went from it.
Used to be like for kids atHalloween, if you were gonna be
a witch, you accepted theugliness of it.
You accepted the fact that itwasn't, and this sounds weird
when we're talking about kids,but right, it wasn't a sexy
(04:59):
costume.
Not now it is.
Now it's it's all glamour,right?
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
So those kids grown up and we have the sexy witch
costumes now.
SPEAKER_04 (05:12):
So I don't know.
Um gosh, there's so I mean,there's so much to pull from.
You're killing me with this.
SPEAKER_03 (05:21):
Uh raising up Ravda Duck.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (05:24):
I I mean I've watched like the new Sabrina the
Witch.
SPEAKER_03 (05:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
And I do think that some of it's kind of accurate.
SPEAKER_03 (05:36):
Some of it's not.
SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
Some of it's very off-based.
SPEAKER_03 (05:40):
Um I it's definitely from a certain point of view,
yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
But remember, it always like you know, annoys me
a little bit that it's like thiswas an archie comic.
SPEAKER_03 (05:50):
Yes, you know, yeah, it's hard to believe that that
was part of the archie universe.
SPEAKER_04 (05:55):
Yeah, the craft, as much as not the movie, the TV
show.
The TV show was had some veryaccurate moments and ideas, but
they never took it far enough.
No, they didn't.
And the movie, I look, I lovethe movie, but the movie was
(06:16):
not.
I mean, come on.
There's they made up an entitythat doesn't even exist, right?
Right?
Like, I mean, I can't remember.
SPEAKER_03 (06:22):
And and don't even get me started on the second one
because a remake is even worse.
SPEAKER_04 (06:26):
That was terrible.
Um, but Buffy the Vampire Slayerdid a pretty good job.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
I Willow was a really good example.
You you are right.
SPEAKER_04 (06:39):
I think she is a good example of yeah, I think
the reason Willow is such a goodexample is because her
trajectory, her development incraft is actually very accurate.
SPEAKER_03 (06:53):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (06:54):
The nerdy bookie research, you know, she was
very, very astutely intellectualin her search of craft.
The only problem is we're stillback to none of these portrayed
as a religion.
No, it's strictly a magicalpractice.
SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Well, even in practical magic, which I love
this and I love the book.
SPEAKER_04 (07:17):
Which, by the way, is being remade.
SPEAKER_03 (07:19):
Again, it is?
SPEAKER_04 (07:20):
Yep, there's a new practical magic.
Oh my god.
I don't even know if it's aremake or just a part two, but
they're different.
SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
Well, look, after the after Gilmore, after Happy
Gilmore 2, I'm sorry, is thereanything new going to actually
come out?
unknown (07:31):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (07:32):
Probably not.
SPEAKER_03 (07:33):
I just yeah, different issue.
But why?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (07:40):
Because I mean, witches are popular.
I mean, look, they did um whatare the Sanders Sisters?
What is the name of that one?
Oh, it drives me nuts.
Um a lot of people love that onetoo, and I know I was never a
fan of.
SPEAKER_03 (07:52):
What's the latest the musical that just came out?
Wicked.
Wicked.
SPEAKER_04 (07:56):
Wicked's been around a long time and now it's a
movie, and now you know thatmovie is gonna be probably at
least a trilogy.
Um, and now we've also gotteninto this, you know, the magical
school, the witch school is sucha gigantic trope in so many
ways.
And I find that hilariousbecause the truth of a magical
(08:21):
school is it's a bunch of peoplein plain clothes sitting around
someone's dining room table,yeah, drinking coffee and
talking about theology andmythology and history.
History, yeah, not at all whatit's portrayed as.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Um a lot of us wish it was, but it's not.
SPEAKER_04 (08:38):
I think I think that's really my issue with so
much of it, is it's washed thereligious aspect is washed out
entirely.
And it is, and I don't thinkthere's an irony there because I
don't think the masses wouldaccept it as much if it was
presented in that way.
SPEAKER_03 (08:57):
Well, well, again, they they they they wash away
our knowledge, they wash awayour experience and our wisdom on
a lot of this.
Yeah, because when we look atthe older stories, when we
looked at like the Merlins andthe stuff like that, when we
look at the these people came tous for our knowledge and our
wisdom, not our access to magic.
Right.
And now all the stories seem tobe about the access of magic and
(09:19):
not the access of knowledge,yeah, yeah, for sure.
I think that's why I like TheGood Witch because they're the
only they're the only show thatI saw that actually did it the
other way around.
SPEAKER_04 (09:28):
Which is why it was so boring.
Thank you.
I know, I know, because thetruth is it's not that exciting.
It's not.
We give advice, that's it.
Yeah, I mean, it yeah, there'ssomething to be said for the
spectacle, the show.
(09:48):
I mean, and people, you know,people like it.
It's look, it's but but it's thesame way if you extracted
Christianity, if you extractedthe dogma, if you extracted all,
if you took Jesus out of theBible, right?
Right and told his story andtold about the magic and the
(10:08):
feats and the different, it'd befreaking cool.
It would.
But it's not faith-basedanymore.
No, it's just about the use ofmagic and trickery.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:23):
Special powers you don't.
SPEAKER_04 (10:25):
Right.
And that's the thing about it isthat it's the specialness, the
otherness that everybody wantsto achieve.
And therein lies the problem.
There's no otherness about us.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
There's nothing we're not we while we may be the
star of our own stories, is ourstory, not everybody else's.
Nobody else cares about mystory.
SPEAKER_04 (10:47):
No, it's and it's not that fanciful.
No.
There's Agatha was not bad.
There's a lot of elements ofAgatha I liked from the trial
standpoint.
Um there are elements of boththe Scarlet Witch and the Agatha
(11:11):
story that I mean again, butthey're we're talking about tiny
pieces, tiny little like thingsthat make a real witch giggle
and go, I know what they didthere.
Yeah, you know, but that's it.
The rest goes over people'sheads mainly.
Right.
So it's like, I think they haveadvisors.
(11:31):
Now, this is something funbecause I don't know if you know
this.
A lot of people don't.
The original Sabrina the TeenageWitch, the one from the 90s,
right, where Salem was adecrepitly horrific, right,
animatronic cat that wasterrifying.
Do you know, right, that most ofit was written by and the
(11:54):
advisor for the show was SilverRavenwolf.
SPEAKER_03 (11:59):
Does not surprise me.
SPEAKER_04 (12:01):
She was a major, major component of that program
because they felt like theyneeded something to make it a
little more credible and alittle more modern.
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
I don't think they actually achieved that.
SPEAKER_04 (12:18):
I don't think so either.
I mean, it was a comedy.
It was a comedy and it was cuteand it was silly.
SPEAKER_03 (12:23):
I again, I don't hate the show.
I would sit here and watch it.
SPEAKER_04 (12:26):
But when you compare it to the new one, you see how
we've gone for something muchmore darker, very sinister,
again, very sexy.
Like when you look at this, thiswas the thing I did respect
about the original Sabrina.
She was just a girl.
Yes, she was an average,everyday teenage girl for that
(12:50):
time period.
SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
With this thing that was something extra that I
needed to either just workaround or it was also why I
always loved Bewitched.
SPEAKER_04 (13:02):
It was the same thing.
She was just a typicalhousewife.
SPEAKER_03 (13:06):
I'm not trying to be on the surface.
I just want to be a housewife.
That's fine.
SPEAKER_04 (13:10):
Now but okay, so with Sabrina, uh well, hold on.
So with Bewitched, then you hadthe mother-in-law.
She was right hilarious becauseshe represented the otherness,
right?
She represented this idea ofthis much more profound
(13:31):
character, and her daughter wasrebelling against it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (13:35):
But now you look at you compare the modern Sabrina
to the original Sabrina, andit's like she is not the average
teenager, she does not in anyway, shape, or form look like
the typical teenage girl.
There's again something muchmore stylized about the whole
thing.
SPEAKER_03 (13:52):
More grandiose.
Yeah.
What would really be for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (13:57):
There's a part of me that thinks Harry Potter would
have actually been a betterstory if you took the three kids
and extrapolated them, pulledthem out of Hogwarts and put
them into our world.
SPEAKER_03 (14:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:14):
And you have to figure out this in this world
and not get there's a betterlevel of which makes it a little
more like Stranger Things.
SPEAKER_04 (14:24):
Yeah.
But yet Stranger Things doesn'tclaim that anybody's a witch.
You know what I mean?
There's yes, there's magic.
SPEAKER_03 (14:30):
There's magic and there's might as well be, but
but there's no actual definitionof it.
Well, see, my my only problemwith Stranger Things is it just
shows that communication goes along freaking way.
SPEAKER_04 (14:42):
Sure.
For real.
But it's you know, it's likeanything else.
We've gotta make it glamorous,we've gotta make it more
intriguing, we have to make itbigger, batter, more.
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
We're not, I'm not gonna sit here and say that I
haven't stopped and watched anepisode of Bewitched just
because it happened to be on TVand it's bewitched.
I enjoy the show for the showitself.
I don't enjoy it for itsrelationship of witchcraft
necessarily.
Are you are you with me?
SPEAKER_04 (15:15):
No, because her to call her a witch wasn't even
remotely accurate.
No, I mean she was a superheroeffectively.
She just had magic powers.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
It's a funny thing, and I thinkthat the trend will continue.
We're gonna see more of this.
(15:35):
Oh, there was a show.
There was one I really enjoyed.
Um, but again, the magicians,not at all, but I mean, I think
very well done.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
Well, again, just like the order, by the time you
got done watching new order, itwas all about the magic and not
about the religious, even thoughyou saw where they maybe try to
insert maybe some of thoseethics and morals, yep.
But they still don't quite getthere.
So I don't think anybody's goingto go around and make a show
about a witch shop and thestupidity that goes on.
(16:09):
No, I why it would be funny.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
I do think, I do think this is what's gonna
happen.
I think at some point we aregonna see two things potentially
take place.
The first is we are gonna get amajor motion picture of one of
the primary founders.
We're gonna get AlistairCrowley's, you know, or Gardner
(16:34):
or, you know, one of those.
It's going to be a movie.
Right.
And I think that that couldreally shed some light on
things.
It will also potentially freakpeople out a little bit.
SPEAKER_03 (16:45):
Well, do do you ever think we'll get into like places
like with soap hoppers and stuffwhere they'll actually have
characters who follow thereligion, not the magic, but the
religion.
Maybe where we get where westart getting characters maybe
like this, where we actuallyhave people following.
SPEAKER_04 (16:59):
I think that's gonna come in cartoon form first and
pave the way for that.
Maybe because I don't thinkpeople are ready for that from
its realness.
SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Because I again I would personally love to see a
witch character where it wasabout the religion and not about
the magic.
SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
Now, I do think where the potential for that
might exist.
I am shocked that it hasn'talready been done, especially
with the popularity of ghosthunting and you know, all of
that.
Um, and and things like youknow, the the Warrens and you
know, the conjuring.
And I am shocked there is not areality TV show centered around
(17:38):
a witch shop.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:41):
Again, what what was that?
Uh pawn stars.
SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
Yes, pawn stars.
SPEAKER_03 (17:44):
Like, yeah, there's I'm I'm with you there.
SPEAKER_04 (17:47):
Reality TV covers everything else.
But that it's it's due, and Ithink that it's realistically
that's something we're probablygonna see in the next 10 years.
SPEAKER_03 (17:59):
Because I would love to say this if it's one of the
New Orleans.
SPEAKER_04 (18:02):
Well, but here's the thing we already kind of have
some of that happening in thesense that with Witch Talk, you
have a ton of store owners thatare documenting their day-to-day
and that are documenting, youknow, certain things.
But I think to turn that intosomething a little bit more
(18:23):
prime time or mainstream wouldbe really interesting.
Now, I unlike you, I disagreeabout the New Orleans
connection, unfortunately.
Oh.
Because the majority of theshops in New Orleans are
unfortunately owned by peoplewho at this point are just in it
to make money.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
So we're talking tourist traps.
SPEAKER_04 (18:45):
Mainly.
The biggest one is Hex.
And Hex is actually Hex has twolocations.
Hex has one in Salem, and it hasmultiple locations in New
Orleans.
And Hex is owned by uh, I can'tremember his name, but it's one
of Lori Cabot's children.
SPEAKER_02 (19:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (19:05):
And Lori Cabot, of course, being the uh the the
resident witch of Salem.
Um, you know, she's stillaround.
She's very old now, but she'sstill around.
But Lori Cabot, I think, youknow, it wouldn't surprise me if
her or one of her people had ahand in something like that.
But my issue is they've become afarce.
(19:29):
This is gonna sound really bad,but I'm just gonna go ahead and
say it.
Lori Cabot and her crew, they'remostly what I would call star
fuckers.
Okay.
They are people who strictlyfollow whatever is gonna get
them the most attention, themost views, the most publicity.
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
Um so so the so you're putting them in the same
categories as the late 80spsychic absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (19:52):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (19:53):
You know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
The the whole yeah, Lori Cabot for me, I lost all
respect for her when sheappeared in a God Smack video.
Oh god.
Because Sully, the lead singerof Godsmack, who is a practicing
pagan and who is openly ofcraft, I believe, or at least he
calls himself pagan, whatever,he is an initiate of Lori Cabot.
(20:15):
And so, or an honorary initiate,one or the other.
But either way, Lori Cabot andher coven appeared in the God
Smack video voodoo.
And I was like, I'm out, I'mout, I'm done, because that is
something craft would never do.
We would never make a mockery ofour circle and our sacred rites
(20:36):
and put it in a for a freakingmusic video, right?
It was disgusting.
Now, if you want to do adocumentary and you want to act
fine, great, educate people, butit was it was all for show.
SPEAKER_03 (20:51):
Um, you know so, so so or well, let me ask you in
this case, because you know moreabout media than I do, all
right.
Are we talking or are witchesnot allowed to use any publicity
is good publicity?
Are you are you with me?
Oh, yeah.
I mean I mean so we're notallowed to do that, but yet all
(21:14):
the other I don't think it's amatter of look.
SPEAKER_04 (21:18):
I mean, that's like saying, you know, the righteous
gemstones, which has been awildly popular show right now on
HBO, and you know, they justwrapped the final season, and
you know, Danny McBride is thecreator.
That would be like saying thatthat show put the Christian mega
churches in a good light becauseit certainly did not.
(21:41):
It made for great television, itwas very funny, but come on, I
mean, it it literally it's amockery of what those things
actually are, and I mean, notyou know, I have my own opinions
about those, but it took it to anext level.
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (21:59):
So you don't actually believe that any media
any media attention isnecessarily good.
SPEAKER_04 (22:04):
No, no, because it's it's the same way I feel about
Harry Potter.
Harry Potter upsets me simplybecause you have children
running around with magic wandsand with their, you know, uh
Hogwarts cloaks and right, I'm awitch, I'm a witch, but like
there's no there's nothingbehind what they're doing, they
(22:26):
have no concept of the act ofwhat it actually represents.
SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
They don't have that why behind there, exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (22:36):
And without that, it's just for show.
So yeah, it kind of it kind ofupsets me.
I don't, I don't like it.
Does it does it make us moreaccepted?
Sure, but it also makes us moreaccepted in the sense that
people go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
The there, there's a witch, youknow, there's a group of witches
(22:57):
in town, or there's a covenant,whatever.
They're just you know, they'rejust running around with their
wand.
They think it really is HarryPotter.
They think that we're a bunch ofadults who are making up
nonsense words in Latin and youknow, pointing wands at things.
It's like, no.
SPEAKER_03 (23:12):
No, that's not so so I now I have to ask.
Now I said what my favorite onewas.
What about yours?
What was your favorite show, theshow to which?
That you think maybe put us inthe best light.
SPEAKER_04 (23:28):
Um put me on the spot.
I don't I don't know.
I really liked the way Vikings,the show Vikings perceived the
seer.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (23:45):
I thought that that was really pretty accurate.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (23:50):
Um creepy, but accurate.
I'm trying to think if there'ssomething recently that's really
made a big impression on me likethat.
And I think outside of the just,you know, again, enjoying a
particular program for itsentertainment value, I don't uh
(24:13):
there's not a lot.
No, there's not there's not anyone particular one that makes me
go, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (24:20):
That's a great way to look at what we do.
Yeah.
Not really.
SPEAKER_03 (24:25):
No.
SPEAKER_04 (24:26):
Kind of sad.
SPEAKER_03 (24:27):
It is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:30):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Peg and Coffee Talk is broughtto you by Life Temple and
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SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
We travel down this trodden path a maze of stone and
mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres, and so
it is the end of our days, sowalk with me till morning
(25:10):
breaks, and so it is the end ofour days, so walk with me till
morning breaks.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
SPEAKER_04 (00:25):
Let's talk about witches in the news.
SPEAKER_03 (00:28):
Let's just talk about witchcraft and medium.
Alright?
SPEAKER_04 (00:31):
Well, what's the difference?
What do you what are youthinking?
SPEAKER_03 (00:34):
Well, I'm I'm I'm thinking, okay, well, the first
witch we saw on the screen wasWizard of Oz.
Oh, you mean media?
SPEAKER_04 (00:44):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (00:45):
I mean, again, what was the bet what do you think
the best show that representswitchcraft?
Yepes.
Let's let's talk about this.
I mean, what you got hold on.
Let's let's name off the shows.
You got what?
First of all, you got Wizard ofOz.
SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
Oh man.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00):
Then then you brought Bewitched.
Uh Tucker's Wife.
All right.
Tucker's Wife was about a witchthat I don't remember it, but
yeah.
Yeah, they they solved crimes.
SPEAKER_04 (01:12):
Technically, you could put I Dream of Jeannie.
SPEAKER_03 (01:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (01:17):
Right.
Um, oh my gosh.
The craft, the movie, obviously.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
No, no, don't forget.
The Good Witch.
SPEAKER_04 (01:24):
The Good Witch.
Sabrina the Teenage Witch.
Cartoon and Practical Magic.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04 (01:31):
Um, The Witches of East Witch.
Okay, we can keep going,Hellbater.
I mean, there's a lot of things.
Oh boy.
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (01:38):
So which ones were good?
And then again, and we stillhave Agnes all along.
So which ones, which what wasactually good?
What was bad?
Oh practical.
We're talking practical magicand I'm not even bringing anime
in advance.
SPEAKER_04 (01:56):
Yeah, I mean, you have um oh, there's so many.
This is crazy.
Um, okay, so let's let's allright.
So you start, let's go back tothe origin.
All right, so the first okay, sothe first vision I have in my
head of a witch is not theWizard of Oz.
It's Snow White.
(02:17):
It is the Snow White cartoon,and it is the old hag with the
apple.
SPEAKER_03 (02:22):
Funny, when I think of witches, the first thing I
think of is Narnia and the WhiteWitch at the beginning.
SPEAKER_04 (02:30):
Okay.
Yeah, I think cartoons.
I mean, the other one I pictureis, you know, from Warner
Brothers.
Yada.
SPEAKER_03 (02:37):
She, you know, was Yeah, the old the the old Lindy
Tune Witch.
SPEAKER_04 (02:42):
Yeah, and she was trying to cook Bugs Money.
Um good God.
So which ones are good, whichones are bad?
SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Um are you ready for this?
I want to tell you, the the theshow I think actually gave the
best of what we really are, thegood witch.
SPEAKER_04 (03:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (03:02):
The most boring show ever.
Interesting.
The good witch is actuallyprobably closer to what where we
actually are versus any of theothers.
SPEAKER_04 (03:10):
I mean, I think that the newer stuff has definitely
gotten better.
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:15):
I think that the newer material, especially the
mythological, has really gottena lot of it right.
You know, like I just finishedwatching The Sandman on Netflix.
Oh, God.
And oh, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:30):
Well, I again watching anything Vikings now,
the myths are a whole lot morefor sure.
And anything Celtic, it's alittle bit better than what it
used to be.
SPEAKER_04 (03:41):
Oh, yeah.
You know, and obviously, becausepeople have such a different
view of magic and witchcraftnow, we've gone from it.
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
Used to be the hag, the old, crotchety, ugly, the
green space, the jealousy, andthe nose.
SPEAKER_04 (04:05):
Yeah, she was always angry and full of vengeance, and
you know, she used her magicpoorly.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
And now we have this complete opposite end of the
spectrum, which is thisglorification of a witch not
only as beautiful and powerful,and you know, as the heroine, uh
it's sort of turned up to silkysuede to the point to where
(04:36):
okay, just watching it gives mea cavity.
SPEAKER_04 (04:38):
Well, I don't know about that.
I think it's just again, it'sit's that glorification.
We went from it.
Used to be like for kids atHalloween, if you were gonna be
a witch, you accepted theugliness of it.
You accepted the fact that itwasn't, and this sounds weird
when we're talking about kids,but right, it wasn't a sexy
(04:59):
costume.
Not now it is.
Now it's it's all glamour,right?
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
So those kids grown up and we have the sexy witch
costumes now.
SPEAKER_04 (05:12):
So I don't know.
Um gosh, there's so I mean,there's so much to pull from.
You're killing me with this.
SPEAKER_03 (05:21):
Uh raising up Ravda Duck.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (05:24):
I I mean I've watched like the new Sabrina the
Witch.
SPEAKER_03 (05:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
And I do think that some of it's kind of accurate.
SPEAKER_03 (05:36):
Some of it's not.
SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
Some of it's very off-based.
SPEAKER_03 (05:40):
Um I it's definitely from a certain point of view,
yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
But remember, it always like you know, annoys me
a little bit that it's like thiswas an archie comic.
SPEAKER_03 (05:50):
Yes, you know, yeah, it's hard to believe that that
was part of the archie universe.
SPEAKER_04 (05:55):
Yeah, the craft, as much as not the movie, the TV
show.
The TV show was had some veryaccurate moments and ideas, but
they never took it far enough.
No, they didn't.
And the movie, I look, I lovethe movie, but the movie was
(06:16):
not.
I mean, come on.
There's they made up an entitythat doesn't even exist, right?
Right?
Like, I mean, I can't remember.
SPEAKER_03 (06:22):
And and don't even get me started on the second one
because a remake is even worse.
SPEAKER_04 (06:26):
That was terrible.
Um, but Buffy the Vampire Slayerdid a pretty good job.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
I Willow was a really good example.
You you are right.
SPEAKER_04 (06:39):
I think she is a good example of yeah, I think
the reason Willow is such a goodexample is because her
trajectory, her development incraft is actually very accurate.
SPEAKER_03 (06:53):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (06:54):
The nerdy bookie research, you know, she was
very, very astutely intellectualin her search of craft.
The only problem is we're stillback to none of these portrayed
as a religion.
No, it's strictly a magicalpractice.
SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Well, even in practical magic, which I love
this and I love the book.
SPEAKER_04 (07:17):
Which, by the way, is being remade.
SPEAKER_03 (07:19):
Again, it is?
SPEAKER_04 (07:20):
Yep, there's a new practical magic.
Oh my god.
I don't even know if it's aremake or just a part two, but
they're different.
SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
Well, look, after the after Gilmore, after Happy
Gilmore 2, I'm sorry, is thereanything new going to actually
come out?
unknown (07:31):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (07:32):
Probably not.
SPEAKER_03 (07:33):
I just yeah, different issue.
But why?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (07:40):
Because I mean, witches are popular.
I mean, look, they did um whatare the Sanders Sisters?
What is the name of that one?
Oh, it drives me nuts.
Um a lot of people love that onetoo, and I know I was never a
fan of.
SPEAKER_03 (07:52):
What's the latest the musical that just came out?
Wicked.
Wicked.
SPEAKER_04 (07:56):
Wicked's been around a long time and now it's a
movie, and now you know thatmovie is gonna be probably at
least a trilogy.
Um, and now we've also gotteninto this, you know, the magical
school, the witch school is sucha gigantic trope in so many
ways.
And I find that hilariousbecause the truth of a magical
(08:21):
school is it's a bunch of peoplein plain clothes sitting around
someone's dining room table,yeah, drinking coffee and
talking about theology andmythology and history.
History, yeah, not at all whatit's portrayed as.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Um a lot of us wish it was, but it's not.
SPEAKER_04 (08:38):
I think I think that's really my issue with so
much of it, is it's washed thereligious aspect is washed out
entirely.
And it is, and I don't thinkthere's an irony there because I
don't think the masses wouldaccept it as much if it was
presented in that way.
SPEAKER_03 (08:57):
Well, well, again, they they they they wash away
our knowledge, they wash awayour experience and our wisdom on
a lot of this.
Yeah, because when we look atthe older stories, when we
looked at like the Merlins andthe stuff like that, when we
look at the these people came tous for our knowledge and our
wisdom, not our access to magic.
Right.
And now all the stories seem tobe about the access of magic and
(09:19):
not the access of knowledge,yeah, yeah, for sure.
I think that's why I like TheGood Witch because they're the
only they're the only show thatI saw that actually did it the
other way around.
SPEAKER_04 (09:28):
Which is why it was so boring.
Thank you.
I know, I know, because thetruth is it's not that exciting.
It's not.
We give advice, that's it.
Yeah, I mean, it yeah, there'ssomething to be said for the
spectacle, the show.
(09:48):
I mean, and people, you know,people like it.
It's look, it's but but it's thesame way if you extracted
Christianity, if you extractedthe dogma, if you extracted all,
if you took Jesus out of theBible, right?
Right and told his story andtold about the magic and the
(10:08):
feats and the different, it'd befreaking cool.
It would.
But it's not faith-basedanymore.
No, it's just about the use ofmagic and trickery.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:23):
Special powers you don't.
SPEAKER_04 (10:25):
Right.
And that's the thing about it isthat it's the specialness, the
otherness that everybody wantsto achieve.
And therein lies the problem.
There's no otherness about us.
SPEAKER_03 (10:38):
There's nothing we're not we while we may be the
star of our own stories, is ourstory, not everybody else's.
Nobody else cares about mystory.
SPEAKER_04 (10:47):
No, it's and it's not that fanciful.
No.
There's Agatha was not bad.
There's a lot of elements ofAgatha I liked from the trial
standpoint.
Um there are elements of boththe Scarlet Witch and the Agatha
(11:11):
story that I mean again, butthey're we're talking about tiny
pieces, tiny little like thingsthat make a real witch giggle
and go, I know what they didthere.
Yeah, you know, but that's it.
The rest goes over people'sheads mainly.
Right.
So it's like, I think they haveadvisors.
(11:31):
Now, this is something funbecause I don't know if you know
this.
A lot of people don't.
The original Sabrina the TeenageWitch, the one from the 90s,
right, where Salem was adecrepitly horrific, right,
animatronic cat that wasterrifying.
Do you know, right, that most ofit was written by and the
(11:54):
advisor for the show was SilverRavenwolf.
SPEAKER_03 (11:59):
Does not surprise me.
SPEAKER_04 (12:01):
She was a major, major component of that program
because they felt like theyneeded something to make it a
little more credible and alittle more modern.
SPEAKER_03 (12:15):
I don't think they actually achieved that.
SPEAKER_04 (12:18):
I don't think so either.
I mean, it was a comedy.
It was a comedy and it was cuteand it was silly.
SPEAKER_03 (12:23):
I again, I don't hate the show.
I would sit here and watch it.
SPEAKER_04 (12:26):
But when you compare it to the new one, you see how
we've gone for something muchmore darker, very sinister,
again, very sexy.
Like when you look at this, thiswas the thing I did respect
about the original Sabrina.
She was just a girl.
Yes, she was an average,everyday teenage girl for that
(12:50):
time period.
SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
With this thing that was something extra that I
needed to either just workaround or it was also why I
always loved Bewitched.
SPEAKER_04 (13:02):
It was the same thing.
She was just a typicalhousewife.
SPEAKER_03 (13:06):
I'm not trying to be on the surface.
I just want to be a housewife.
That's fine.
SPEAKER_04 (13:10):
Now but okay, so with Sabrina, uh well, hold on.
So with Bewitched, then you hadthe mother-in-law.
She was right hilarious becauseshe represented the otherness,
right?
She represented this idea ofthis much more profound
(13:31):
character, and her daughter wasrebelling against it.
SPEAKER_03 (13:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (13:35):
But now you look at you compare the modern Sabrina
to the original Sabrina, andit's like she is not the average
teenager, she does not in anyway, shape, or form look like
the typical teenage girl.
There's again something muchmore stylized about the whole
thing.
SPEAKER_03 (13:52):
More grandiose.
Yeah.
What would really be for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (13:57):
There's a part of me that thinks Harry Potter would
have actually been a betterstory if you took the three kids
and extrapolated them, pulledthem out of Hogwarts and put
them into our world.
SPEAKER_03 (14:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:14):
And you have to figure out this in this world
and not get there's a betterlevel of which makes it a little
more like Stranger Things.
SPEAKER_04 (14:24):
Yeah.
But yet Stranger Things doesn'tclaim that anybody's a witch.
You know what I mean?
There's yes, there's magic.
SPEAKER_03 (14:30):
There's magic and there's might as well be, but
but there's no actual definitionof it.
Well, see, my my only problemwith Stranger Things is it just
shows that communication goes along freaking way.
SPEAKER_04 (14:42):
Sure.
For real.
But it's you know, it's likeanything else.
We've gotta make it glamorous,we've gotta make it more
intriguing, we have to make itbigger, batter, more.
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
We're not, I'm not gonna sit here and say that I
haven't stopped and watched anepisode of Bewitched just
because it happened to be on TVand it's bewitched.
I enjoy the show for the showitself.
I don't enjoy it for itsrelationship of witchcraft
necessarily.
Are you are you with me?
SPEAKER_04 (15:15):
No, because her to call her a witch wasn't even
remotely accurate.
No, I mean she was a superheroeffectively.
She just had magic powers.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
It's a funny thing, and I thinkthat the trend will continue.
We're gonna see more of this.
(15:35):
Oh, there was a show.
There was one I really enjoyed.
Um, but again, the magicians,not at all, but I mean, I think
very well done.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
Well, again, just like the order, by the time you
got done watching new order, itwas all about the magic and not
about the religious, even thoughyou saw where they maybe try to
insert maybe some of thoseethics and morals, yep.
But they still don't quite getthere.
So I don't think anybody's goingto go around and make a show
about a witch shop and thestupidity that goes on.
(16:09):
No, I why it would be funny.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
I do think, I do think this is what's gonna
happen.
I think at some point we aregonna see two things potentially
take place.
The first is we are gonna get amajor motion picture of one of
the primary founders.
We're gonna get AlistairCrowley's, you know, or Gardner
(16:34):
or, you know, one of those.
It's going to be a movie.
Right.
And I think that that couldreally shed some light on
things.
It will also potentially freakpeople out a little bit.
SPEAKER_03 (16:45):
Well, do do you ever think we'll get into like places
like with soap hoppers and stuffwhere they'll actually have
characters who follow thereligion, not the magic, but the
religion.
Maybe where we get where westart getting characters maybe
like this, where we actuallyhave people following.
SPEAKER_04 (16:59):
I think that's gonna come in cartoon form first and
pave the way for that.
Maybe because I don't thinkpeople are ready for that from
its realness.
SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Because I again I would personally love to see a
witch character where it wasabout the religion and not about
the magic.
SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
Now, I do think where the potential for that
might exist.
I am shocked that it hasn'talready been done, especially
with the popularity of ghosthunting and you know, all of
that.
Um, and and things like youknow, the the Warrens and you
know, the conjuring.
And I am shocked there is not areality TV show centered around
(17:38):
a witch shop.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:41):
Again, what what was that?
Uh pawn stars.
SPEAKER_04 (17:43):
Yes, pawn stars.
SPEAKER_03 (17:44):
Like, yeah, there's I'm I'm with you there.
SPEAKER_04 (17:47):
Reality TV covers everything else.
But that it's it's due, and Ithink that it's realistically
that's something we're probablygonna see in the next 10 years.
SPEAKER_03 (17:59):
Because I would love to say this if it's one of the
New Orleans.
SPEAKER_04 (18:02):
Well, but here's the thing we already kind of have
some of that happening in thesense that with Witch Talk, you
have a ton of store owners thatare documenting their day-to-day
and that are documenting, youknow, certain things.
But I think to turn that intosomething a little bit more
(18:23):
prime time or mainstream wouldbe really interesting.
Now, I unlike you, I disagreeabout the New Orleans
connection, unfortunately.
Oh.
Because the majority of theshops in New Orleans are
unfortunately owned by peoplewho at this point are just in it
to make money.
SPEAKER_03 (18:43):
So we're talking tourist traps.
SPEAKER_04 (18:45):
Mainly.
The biggest one is Hex.
And Hex is actually Hex has twolocations.
Hex has one in Salem, and it hasmultiple locations in New
Orleans.
And Hex is owned by uh, I can'tremember his name, but it's one
of Lori Cabot's children.
SPEAKER_02 (19:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (19:05):
And Lori Cabot, of course, being the uh the the
resident witch of Salem.
Um, you know, she's stillaround.
She's very old now, but she'sstill around.
But Lori Cabot, I think, youknow, it wouldn't surprise me if
her or one of her people had ahand in something like that.
But my issue is they've become afarce.
(19:29):
This is gonna sound really bad,but I'm just gonna go ahead and
say it.
Lori Cabot and her crew, they'remostly what I would call star
fuckers.
Okay.
They are people who strictlyfollow whatever is gonna get
them the most attention, themost views, the most publicity.
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
Um so so the so you're putting them in the same
categories as the late 80spsychic absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (19:52):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (19:53):
You know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
The the whole yeah, Lori Cabot for me, I lost all
respect for her when sheappeared in a God Smack video.
Oh god.
Because Sully, the lead singerof Godsmack, who is a practicing
pagan and who is openly ofcraft, I believe, or at least he
calls himself pagan, whatever,he is an initiate of Lori Cabot.
(20:15):
And so, or an honorary initiate,one or the other.
But either way, Lori Cabot andher coven appeared in the God
Smack video voodoo.
And I was like, I'm out, I'mout, I'm done, because that is
something craft would never do.
We would never make a mockery ofour circle and our sacred rites
(20:36):
and put it in a for a freakingmusic video, right?
It was disgusting.
Now, if you want to do adocumentary and you want to act
fine, great, educate people, butit was it was all for show.
SPEAKER_03 (20:51):
Um, you know so, so so or well, let me ask you in
this case, because you know moreabout media than I do, all
right.
Are we talking or are witchesnot allowed to use any publicity
is good publicity?
Are you are you with me?
Oh, yeah.
I mean I mean so we're notallowed to do that, but yet all
(21:14):
the other I don't think it's amatter of look.
SPEAKER_04 (21:18):
I mean, that's like saying, you know, the righteous
gemstones, which has been awildly popular show right now on
HBO, and you know, they justwrapped the final season, and
you know, Danny McBride is thecreator.
That would be like saying thatthat show put the Christian mega
churches in a good light becauseit certainly did not.
(21:41):
It made for great television, itwas very funny, but come on, I
mean, it it literally it's amockery of what those things
actually are, and I mean, notyou know, I have my own opinions
about those, but it took it to anext level.
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (21:59):
So you don't actually believe that any media
any media attention isnecessarily good.
SPEAKER_04 (22:04):
No, no, because it's it's the same way I feel about
Harry Potter.
Harry Potter upsets me simplybecause you have children
running around with magic wandsand with their, you know, uh
Hogwarts cloaks and right, I'm awitch, I'm a witch, but like
there's no there's nothingbehind what they're doing, they
(22:26):
have no concept of the act ofwhat it actually represents.
SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
They don't have that why behind there, exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (22:36):
And without that, it's just for show.
So yeah, it kind of it kind ofupsets me.
I don't, I don't like it.
Does it does it make us moreaccepted?
Sure, but it also makes us moreaccepted in the sense that
people go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
The there, there's a witch, youknow, there's a group of witches
(22:57):
in town, or there's a covenant,whatever.
They're just you know, they'rejust running around with their
wand.
They think it really is HarryPotter.
They think that we're a bunch ofadults who are making up
nonsense words in Latin and youknow, pointing wands at things.
It's like, no.
SPEAKER_03 (23:12):
No, that's not so so I now I have to ask.
Now I said what my favorite onewas.
What about yours?
What was your favorite show, theshow to which?
That you think maybe put us inthe best light.
SPEAKER_04 (23:28):
Um put me on the spot.
I don't I don't know.
I really liked the way Vikings,the show Vikings perceived the
seer.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (23:45):
I thought that that was really pretty accurate.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (23:50):
Um creepy, but accurate.
I'm trying to think if there'ssomething recently that's really
made a big impression on me likethat.
And I think outside of the just,you know, again, enjoying a
particular program for itsentertainment value, I don't uh
(24:13):
there's not a lot.
No, there's not there's not anyone particular one that makes me
go, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (24:20):
That's a great way to look at what we do.
Yeah.
Not really.
SPEAKER_03 (24:25):
No.
SPEAKER_04 (24:26):
Kind of sad.
SPEAKER_03 (24:27):
It is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:30):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Peg and Coffee Talk is broughtto you by Life Temple and
Seminary.
Please visit us at LifeTempelseminary.org for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
Discord, Twitter, YouTube, andReddit.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
We travel down this trodden path a maze of stone and
mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres, and so
it is the end of our days, sowalk with me till morning
(25:10):
breaks, and so it is the end ofour days, so walk with me till
morning breaks.
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Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.