February 19, 2025 • 29 mins
What if we could reclaim the lost arts of food production and self-sufficiency to break free from today's throwaway culture? Join us as we explore how reconnecting with the earth—whether by planting a modest urban garden or nurturing a larger plot of land—can empower us to reduce our dependence on corporations. We discuss the urgent need to preserve essential skills like cooking, repairing, and building for future generations, and learn how these practices can lead to a richer connection with nature, especially for those in the pagan community.
We provide practical advice on starting a home garden, offer tips for expanding your culinary skills like making delicious homemade tomato sauce. Through personal anecdotes and hands-on experiences, we illustrate how these practices can foster a deeper appreciation for the food we consume.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyAbba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Okay, Lord Knight, I was looking over your notes for
podcast topics.
And one of them was witches.
Don't know how to farm anymore.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
No, witches don't.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Okay, go ahead, go ahead, Give it to us.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
All right, I'm going to go on my little soapbox here,
please do.
We need a better connection toour food.
You need to be able to see yourfood.
We do not need green loansanymore.
We need gardens in your frontyard.
It drives me up the wall.
The most basic necessity weneed to live, live.
We leave up to freakingcorporations and all this other
(01:06):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
that just drives me up the wall okay, so take it a
step further, you.
So farming and gardening aredifferent are different.
Yes, most people think farm.
They think farm land acreagehuge right right, massive
(01:31):
responsibility.
No, okay, so you're seeing justthe act of gardening right,
right, interchangeably right.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Okay, all right, because again there's a lot you
can do on a quarter of an acreof land.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
There's a lot you can do in an apartment building on
a balcony.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
So again, at what size?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
do you become a farmer, versus just gardening
and knowing and understandingwhat it means to connect with
the soil to grow your own foodto reduce waste cost expense.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, you know, have something reliable.
I mean, I'm not sitting heresaying you need to feed your
whole, entire family, but canyou at least get one meal a year
out of your yard?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I'm going to take it a step further.
I'm going to say it's not justgardening, farming.
I think we have a slew ofpotentially lost or endangered
arts.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Growing your own food cooking your own food, storing
your own food, sewing mending,repairing building fixing yep
all of the manual trades, if youwill, are in danger right now.
We are in a time where mostpeople's answer to it's broken
(03:04):
is throw it away.
Right, it has a hole in it.
Throw it away.
Uh, it's missing a button, throwit away.
I can hear my grandmother in my.
I can hear the audible whateveryou want to call it yelp.
That would have come out of hermouth If I were to take a shirt
(03:27):
and missing a button and headto the trash.
Can, right, right?
She would come flying out ofnowhere, shuffling in her
slippers with the needle alreadyin hand you know, because
that's not a reason we haveforgotten how to do.
we look at packaging, we look atthe insanity of what's going on
(03:51):
with waste, with landfills.
Right to me, this drives mecrazy, right?
So you go to the grocery store,I go to buy a bell pepper, okay
, why does my bell pepper haveto be wrapped in plastic?
Ah, I don't understand.
(04:13):
Why do?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I have to take my grocery bags to the grocery
store, but yet everything I buyis wrapped in plastic.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Is wrapped in plastic , I yeah.
But meanwhile I can go to thefarmer's market and nothing,
nothing is packaged, none, youjust put it in a grocery bag and
you go about your business.
But did you not see?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
the story that was going around.
There was a girl and she hadthis lemon tree out in her yard.
She lived in like Florida.
And somebody came over to herhouse one day.
It's just like why do you havelemons from the store?
Because I use them to cook, andall that, but why are you
buying lemons?
You have a lemon tree.
I don't know how to get themoff the tree.
(04:56):
Oh my god, she honestly thoughtthere was that there was a
process that farmers have to doto make this suitable for eating
after it comes off the tree?
Oh boy she didn't understand.
You can walk up to a lemon tree, pull the lemon off and use it.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, as long as it's ripe.
One of my favorite stories.
when I was a baby, mygrandparents came from Sicily to
come visit my mom Actually, Idon't even think I was born yet
they stayed for a while.
I think they stayed for likethe month of her, the last month
(05:34):
of her pregnancy, into, right,like my first couple of months.
So I think they spent like asummer ish, or well, that's not
true.
It wasn't a summer.
I was born in November, so youget my point, that fall,
whatever.
And two things happened that tomy grandmother were devastating.
The first was she showed up atthe airport with a basket of
(05:59):
figs to bring to her pregnantdaughter, who just really wanted
figs, right, right, and for aSicilian you know, farming,
agriculture, family, that's nota weird request.
No, you go to the fig tree inthe backyard, you pull the figs,
you bring a basket of figs,needless to say, yeah, the
(06:22):
airport security just took themand threw them away.
Right, because you can'ttransport Fruit, fruit, yeah, no
, you can't.
So she was just in tears,couldn't understand, right, why
they took the figs away.
And then and this one's reallyfunny my dad, because he told
this story through my entirechildhood.
(06:44):
My dad was very proud of hislawn.
Okay, he was also very proud ofhis garden.
He had, he had, an acre garden,but but he was also very proud
of his lawn and the entire timethat my grandparents were there
he couldn't put weed killer onthe lawn because my grandmother
(07:04):
would go out into the grass andpull the dandelions, yeah, and
pluck to make salad for thedandelion greens, yeah, because
they're edible.
And my dad was like, god damnit, my grandmother's out there
and the first like week, my momis having to explain to her you
(07:25):
can't eat those.
There's, there's pesticide,right, there's poison on those.
You can't, you can't eat that.
And she was like what do youmean?
I can't eat this.
It's food, yes, I can, yeah, so, uh, so my dad had to stop
treating the lawn while theywere there, yeah, because
grandma was foraging in in thegrass, um, but that is so
(07:47):
indicative of the difference ofthe mindset yes um, these people
never worked, your, yourgrandma, they never worried
about not going hungry no, it'sweird.
And they were very poor.
Yes, they were extremely poor.
And yet you're right, becauseyou could always raise a chicken
(08:08):
, right, you could always bake aloaf of bread, you could always
grow something to eat, youcould always go fishing, you
know that's what you did.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
You go catch a rabbit , whatever they, they eat snails
.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I mean, sicily has a lot of volcanic rock, uh, around
the shoreline and you getlittle mollusks and little
snails and it's a whole thing togo and you catch them and you
bring them home and you cookthem.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well, let's talk another reason about all of this
, all right, which I might getin trouble for later.
Yeah, it's fine, all right, but.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I'll protect you.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
But what?
Past six months, months or so,I have changed my diet to go to
more.
I do more things from scratchyes all right, instead of
prepackaged food.
Yes, since I have done this, Ihave not went out to set out to
lose weight but, yet I haveright a considerable amount too,
all right, so why don't wetrust in our food?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well, I'm going to make two comments to that All
right.
So the first is I'm also goingto give you shit for a minute,
all right, I'm just saying I'mnot saying this is perfect.
Because, you know, like anygood priestess, my mind is a
seal's trap and I remembereverything.
I distinctly remember a time,many, many, many moons ago yes,
(09:36):
remember a time, many, many,many moons ago, yes, where we
had someone in temple who washaving a discussion about making
marshmallows from scratch.
Yeah, I remember, and you wentoff on the funniest tangent I
have ever heard you.
I believe you actually saidokay, martha goodwitch, you can
go to the grocery store rightnow and buy a two dollar bag of
(10:01):
jumbo marshmallows and you'regonna waste an entire day making
marshmallows from scratchbecause the bad part the bad
part is about doing everythingfrom scratch is I spend a lot of
time?
Yes, in the kitchen yes, sookay, let's, let's break.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I'm not saying that, that doesn't that that problem
still doesn't exist no, andthat's the the thing I think it
is.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
it is proportionate to the amount of time that you
have available.
At that time, you were workinga very demanding full-time job
and you were running the churchfull-time.
The idea of making marshmallowsfrom scratch was enough to make
you want to beat your head intoa wall because there was no way
you had time for it.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
No, yeah, things have changed.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yes, so that is an important distinction we have to
make, right, we understand that.
But on the other side of thatcoin, people have yes, they look
, cooking is probably the the atan all-time worst right younger
(11:11):
generations do not cook.
I know almost no one in their20s who cooks and only a handful
of people in their 30s who do.
And I'm not talking about likecooks once in a while or can
make a meal.
I mean cooks for their family,like that's it.
They prepare food right, not?
(11:34):
I cook one meal a week and therest is takeout, and that's the
problem.
There's so much we don't knowwhat's in our food anymore,
because I feel like people don'twant to know.
The fda just banned red dyenumber three.
It causes cancer.
(11:55):
Oh, okay, just like red dyenumber six.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And red dye, number nine, that cause migraines.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Nine and number three , and let's keep going on down
the list.
Let's just go ahead and say reddye bad.
Right, unless it comes frombeets, red dye bad.
Red dye bad red dye bad like Imean, because it's pretty
straightforward.
If it's not a naturally deriveddye, why the fuck are you
(12:22):
putting it in your body?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
why are we putting dyes and preservatives that come
from petroleum products?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
which we know causes cancer.
I have always said, and I I'vebeen like this most of my life,
I mean even as well, probablynot as a little kid, but you
know if it can dye my tongue ormy skin, but it didn't come from
(12:49):
something natural that I cansee.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Like the plant or the fruit.
Why the fuck would I ingestthat?
What is that doing to theinside of me?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well, I mean just the fact that they've done this
Mm-hmm.
I mean, regardless of what, thered dye of three Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
The study was 30 freaking years ago and now we're
banning it and now we're doingthe damage is already done.
Yeah, so I'm back to and we'regiving them two years to phase
it out.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, so the damage is done and I and I'm sorry I do
I see obese stuff, I see whathappens to me, and if that's all
that is, then how many peopleare out there who are overweight
and all this other stuff can'tlose weight?
But they don't seem tounderstand what it's.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Well, but but again there's, there's multiple
barriers in place here.
So probably one of the biggestand one of the hardest is the
fact that processed foods arecheap and plentiful.
Yes, and because they are cheapand plentiful, people who are
stuck in a poverty cycle, theyhave a really hard time getting
(13:56):
out of it when they can justcontinue to eat this filling
garbage.
It's not, it's not fun and it'snot fair.
It has been said many, manytimes now it is tragic that it
is cheaper to buy literalgarbage food, food that is
(14:20):
terrible for you, than it is tobuy a basket of fruits and
vegetables.
That's tragic and in no way,shape or form, should that be
taking place.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
No, I mean that's just like in the school system.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
If you hear the lunch , ladies.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
everything comes in a box, everything.
They don't make nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
They just warm everything back up.
Yeah, everything is packagedand prepared.
Reading labels, you know, hasbecome a big deal, but I think
okay.
So if we look at the pagancommunity, it's awareness, well,
I think, I think the pagancommunity is a little bit more
(15:00):
concerned about this subjectbecause, of our closeness to
nature yeah, I would agree withthat, but at the same time, the
system makes it so easy it doesTo just ignore it and not take
action.
So it's small change, right.
So the gardening thing we talkabout that, that was where we
(15:24):
started with us, right?
It is not a big endeavor totake a pot, put it at the front
or the back of your house andgrow tomatoes no it is an
incredibly easy summer crop thatis relatively low maintenance.
(15:45):
As crops go, I mean, you justhave to water it.
They're usually pretty easy.
Aside from that, steak it um.
I mean cucumbers are relativelyeasy peppers are relatively
easy.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Most of the herbs are easy.
Matter of fact, herbs are themost laziest gardening you can
do oh, herbs are fantastic.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I have at least four herbs in my garden right now
that I haven't planted inmultiple years and they're still
growing.
They're not supposed to be.
They should have been dead longago.
They're still kicking.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know most herbs.
If you ignore them, they'llgrow because they're technically
weeds.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, but herbs can be intimidating to people
because, again, it's kind oflike you have to know how to
cook or how to use the herb,right?
So I'm like, look, start withone or two vegetables and then
start using them.
And then start using them Nowwhen your crop is finished.
You're going to realize realquickly how painful it is to
(16:44):
then go to the grocery store andbuy that item.
Yeah, because you're going tobe appalled by what you're
spending for it.
Yeah, mm-hmm.
So start small and then add on.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Learn one recipe Right.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Learn one thing and make it something if you can.
That is a staple that you canfreeze quantities of, because I
also think that's a great way tosee like why would I spend
money on that?
Why would I buy that?
Now, you know me, I haven't.
(17:21):
I don't know that I've everbought jarred tomato sauce, but
I I thought that was a sin inyour house.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah right, it is, it is.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
It was recently brought to my attention that
jarred pasta sauces eight $9 ajar and I'm like what?
That's insane to me.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I, when I can go over to the can aisles, pick up a
can of tomatoes I can get.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I can get a can of crushed and a can of whole.
Give me 45 minutes.
You got sauce and I mean and,and for you, you know, four
dollars if it's on sale.
I mean, but even still, I go.
Sauce comes from my freezer, Ijust open it up and pull out a
container from the last batch.
Yeah, that, and also startingto buy in bulk and learn the
(18:18):
basics of dispatching.
Yeah, I am amazed by how many ofour young pagans are disgusted
by connecting with their foodsource.
They don't want to touch it.
They don't write raw chickenmeats, seafood, they don't want
to get their hands dirty.
And I'm like, listen, yeah, Imean, if I could, and it all
(18:43):
depends on, like, who we have intemple at any given time.
But make no mistake, one ofthese days you're going to walk
in in the kitchen and find mebutchering a whole raw something
and you're going to be likelike, what the hell are you
doing?
Oh, I'm teaching how to filletright now.
Okay, because, yeah, becausethose kinds of things are why we
(19:07):
are struggling with a foodcrisis.
People want to buy, you know,their chicken breasts, perfectly
packaged and ready to go, andI'm like why I can buy split
breast chickens with the, withthe ribs and the meat and the
bone and for like a quarter ofthe price, yeah, I just have to
(19:27):
do a little bit of work when Iget it home and then I have the
bones to make stock to makestock, which I do regularly also
.
So, yes, it's funny to me,because things like chicken
breast, chicken breast cracks meup.
Ask anybody our age the chickenthat they ate most growing up,
(19:47):
and the answer is always thesame drumsticks, drumsticks,
legs.
Why they're cheap?
They're cheap, they're darkmeat, which means it tastes
better yeah, and, and all kidslike the.
Yeah, all kids love a drumstickand they're just easy.
They're easy, yeah, I mean theycook quickly, like they're
versatile as hell.
There's so many different waysto prepare them and now
(20:10):
everything is white meat chicken.
White meat chicken.
White meat chicken.
White meat chicken.
White meat chicken is A themost expensive part of the
chicken, it's the most wastefulpart of the freaking chicken and
it's the one that's most shotup with hormones and BS to make
it bigger and plumper.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yep when.
I can go out and buy two poundsof chicken thighs.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh God I love chicken thighs For like half the house,
and here's the other one thatgets people every time Chicken
breasts is dry and tasteless.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, but there is a lot of that.
We had a power outage not thatmany months ago from a storm.
It was minor, but my brother'sneighborhood lost power minor,
um, but my brother'sneighborhood lost power and him
and his uh partner went out tojust kind of drive around see
what was going on and they saidthat everything in the
neighborhood was dead until theygot just outside of town and it
(21:08):
turns out that chick-fil-a hadpower and they said that the
line was wrapped twice aroundthe building and spilling out
into the street.
Okay, and Kenny said what'sgoing on?
He goes why are all thesepeople at Chick-fil-A?
(21:30):
And Brandon stopped and wentbecause none of them know what
to do when the power's out tocook a meal.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
He's like nobody knows what to do.
So they're panicking andthey're buying dinner at
Chick-fil-A because it's openand it has power.
They cooked dinner that nighton the barbecue.
Yeah, I just Uh-huh, I know.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
That's what I would have done.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I know I've cooked dinner in my hearth, in my
fireplace.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I have seen my mother cook breakfast on a wood stove
because we didn't have power.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm not saying it waseasy, but it did it.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
There was a fire running upstairs fire downstairs
, a foot of snow outside and allthe doors opened because it was
freaking hot in the house.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Cooking is like anything else it's a little bit
of know-how.
It's a little bit of knowledgethat you can then apply, and it
goes such a long way.
But so is fixing, so isrepairing, so are any of these
things.
So what's the point?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
We got work to do.
We need to be more self-reliant.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, no, you can't learn it all or anything but
there aren't as many skills asyou can.
We need this connection, yeahand I will say you know what, if
you want to get creative and gooff the rails in some way,
that's unique, knock yourselfout, go for it, but do it.
My daughter surprised the hellout of me when she showed me a
(23:03):
big tub of dirt and she pulled agiant beetle grub out of the
dirt in her hand and I went whatin God's name?
Because these things are huge.
They were the size of her palm.
Uh-huh, her property islittered with these giant beetle
grubs.
(23:23):
They're very destructive,obviously, because they're so
big, but they make those gianthorned beetles that are really
big and that people sometimeskeep as pets or they mount, she
started incubating them.
Now, in a way, it's bug farmingright yeah, yeah, she started
incubating the beetles so thatshe could.
Then because they don't livevery long, you know she would
(23:45):
allow them to live out theirlife cycle and then when they
die, she's got the carcass thatshe can mount or she can sell,
or you know any number of thingswith.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Let me make it.
Let me make it worse.
I've been looking up chickensand how to raise chickens and in
this process, I keep on hearingpeople talk about bug farms.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yes, to feed the chickens.
To feed the chickens, cricketsor whatever Black flies and
stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And I'm like, okay, so I don't even have to buy the
food to feed my chickens anymore, and I still can get eggs.
Yep, you know, because I'mstill back in the day.
At one point little house onthe prairie was real.
These people lived on this farm, did not leave, only left the
land on sundays to go to church.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
They only bought shoes they didn't go to the
grocery store there was a timewhere you couldn't buy honey
because your neighbors weregiving it away.
Yes, because there was so muchof it.
There's an interesting kind ofphenomenon of with the decline
of honeybees.
Yes, we know pesticides and allof that have a lot to do with
it, but part of that decline isalso the fact that people are
(24:47):
not beehiving anymore.
No, it used to be a lot.
Now we're starting to see acomeback, but for a large period
of time people stopped doing it, yeah you know, you know, we,
we have a weird, I don't want tosay obligation, but cultivating
(25:08):
something is one of the mostthings you can do, yeah, and to
be able to see how yourcultivation effort can benefit
yourself, your family and thenyour community starts to also, I
think, trigger other people tostart cultivating something, and
(25:31):
then we see that collectiveworking together more smoothly.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I mean cause.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I'm going to be honest with you I mean my goal
really right now is to at leastget one sabbath meal out of the
garden one year I um to be quitehonest with you oh, I know I
was sad I took last year offfrom my gardening because my
gardens are all containers andraised beds right, and
periodically you have to restthe soil because otherwise you
(25:58):
deplete it.
So I did.
I did a complete rest, so I hadnothing last year.
And it pained me because everytime I went to the farmer's
market I was begrudging becauseI'm like why am I praying for
this?
yeah, but anyway it is.
It's a lost art and we've we'vegot to get these things back.
We are in danger of losing somevery basic knowledge.
(26:23):
I mean, come on, I mean justwitchcraft alone.
How can we be witches whoaren't connected to a harvest?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
right, how can?
That's my point is how can webe pagan Every?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
single holiday, every single event on our calendar is
connected to the harvest, andwe actually have witches who
have never experienced a harvest.
Nope, that's madness.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
What it's like to have to go out there because
you've got to take all thetomatoes off you because it's
going to freeze tonight and youain't got.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well, and I'll tell you something that's really
funny and I learned this throughmy step kids it didn't, it
didn't dawn on me because I mean, like you, I grew up with it,
right we?
Always had a garden.
We always had somebody farmingor doing.
One of the fastest ways to getkids, a to eat vegetables, b to
connect to the garden and see,to look forward to it, is to get
(27:18):
them involved in the growing.
Yeah, my step kids would noteat a vegetable.
I'm being like nothing, likeyou know.
If you could get them eat apiece of lettuce, consider
yourself lucky.
Yet when they came to my houseand the garden was they can we
help pick, can we go out?
Yeah, yeah, and then it was get, taking that what they picked
(27:42):
and going.
Okay, now do you want to makesomething with it?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, great, now that we madesomething with her, are you
gonna eat it?
Yeah, yeah, because to them itwas just, and there it was.
There was the whole cycle rightin just a moment with these
children and I was like theyactually like this, yeah, yeah I
(28:02):
mean, and again, farming, ifit's a skill that you can have
you never go hungry, that's true.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
So speaking of farming, if we could just farm
some coffee beans.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Oh, that would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
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Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
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Speaker 4 (28:48):
Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube and Reddit, and
so it is the end of our day, sowalk with me till morning
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Now here are your hosts, ladyAbba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Okay, Lord Knight, I was looking over your notes for
podcast topics.
And one of them was witches.
Don't know how to farm anymore.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
No, witches don't.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Okay, go ahead, go ahead, Give it to us.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
All right, I'm going to go on my little soapbox here,
please do.
We need a better connection toour food.
You need to be able to see yourfood.
We do not need green loansanymore.
We need gardens in your frontyard.
It drives me up the wall.
The most basic necessity weneed to live, live.
We leave up to freakingcorporations and all this other
(01:06):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
that just drives me up the wall okay, so take it a
step further, you.
So farming and gardening aredifferent are different.
Yes, most people think farm.
They think farm land acreagehuge right right, massive
(01:31):
responsibility.
No, okay, so you're seeing justthe act of gardening right,
right, interchangeably right.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Okay, all right, because again there's a lot you
can do on a quarter of an acreof land.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
There's a lot you can do in an apartment building on
a balcony.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
So again, at what size?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
do you become a farmer, versus just gardening
and knowing and understandingwhat it means to connect with
the soil to grow your own foodto reduce waste cost expense.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, you know, have something reliable.
I mean, I'm not sitting heresaying you need to feed your
whole, entire family, but canyou at least get one meal a year
out of your yard?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I'm going to take it a step further.
I'm going to say it's not justgardening, farming.
I think we have a slew ofpotentially lost or endangered
arts.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Growing your own food cooking your own food, storing
your own food, sewing mending,repairing building fixing yep
all of the manual trades, if youwill, are in danger right now.
We are in a time where mostpeople's answer to it's broken
(03:04):
is throw it away.
Right, it has a hole in it.
Throw it away.
Uh, it's missing a button, throwit away.
I can hear my grandmother in my.
I can hear the audible whateveryou want to call it yelp.
That would have come out of hermouth If I were to take a shirt
(03:27):
and missing a button and headto the trash.
Can, right, right?
She would come flying out ofnowhere, shuffling in her
slippers with the needle alreadyin hand you know, because
that's not a reason we haveforgotten how to do.
we look at packaging, we look atthe insanity of what's going on
(03:51):
with waste, with landfills.
Right to me, this drives mecrazy, right?
So you go to the grocery store,I go to buy a bell pepper, okay
, why does my bell pepper haveto be wrapped in plastic?
Ah, I don't understand.
(04:13):
Why do?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I have to take my grocery bags to the grocery
store, but yet everything I buyis wrapped in plastic.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Is wrapped in plastic , I yeah.
But meanwhile I can go to thefarmer's market and nothing,
nothing is packaged, none, youjust put it in a grocery bag and
you go about your business.
But did you not see?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
the story that was going around.
There was a girl and she hadthis lemon tree out in her yard.
She lived in like Florida.
And somebody came over to herhouse one day.
It's just like why do you havelemons from the store?
Because I use them to cook, andall that, but why are you
buying lemons?
You have a lemon tree.
I don't know how to get themoff the tree.
(04:56):
Oh my god, she honestly thoughtthere was that there was a
process that farmers have to doto make this suitable for eating
after it comes off the tree?
Oh boy she didn't understand.
You can walk up to a lemon tree, pull the lemon off and use it.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, as long as it's ripe.
One of my favorite stories.
when I was a baby, mygrandparents came from Sicily to
come visit my mom Actually, Idon't even think I was born yet
they stayed for a while.
I think they stayed for likethe month of her, the last month
(05:34):
of her pregnancy, into, right,like my first couple of months.
So I think they spent like asummer ish, or well, that's not
true.
It wasn't a summer.
I was born in November, so youget my point, that fall,
whatever.
And two things happened that tomy grandmother were devastating.
The first was she showed up atthe airport with a basket of
(05:59):
figs to bring to her pregnantdaughter, who just really wanted
figs, right, right, and for aSicilian you know, farming,
agriculture, family, that's nota weird request.
No, you go to the fig tree inthe backyard, you pull the figs,
you bring a basket of figs,needless to say, yeah, the
(06:22):
airport security just took themand threw them away.
Right, because you can'ttransport Fruit, fruit, yeah, no
, you can't.
So she was just in tears,couldn't understand, right, why
they took the figs away.
And then and this one's reallyfunny my dad, because he told
this story through my entirechildhood.
(06:44):
My dad was very proud of hislawn.
Okay, he was also very proud ofhis garden.
He had, he had, an acre garden,but but he was also very proud
of his lawn and the entire timethat my grandparents were there
he couldn't put weed killer onthe lawn because my grandmother
(07:04):
would go out into the grass andpull the dandelions, yeah, and
pluck to make salad for thedandelion greens, yeah, because
they're edible.
And my dad was like, god damnit, my grandmother's out there
and the first like week, my momis having to explain to her you
(07:25):
can't eat those.
There's, there's pesticide,right, there's poison on those.
You can't, you can't eat that.
And she was like what do youmean?
I can't eat this.
It's food, yes, I can, yeah, so, uh, so my dad had to stop
treating the lawn while theywere there, yeah, because
grandma was foraging in in thegrass, um, but that is so
(07:47):
indicative of the difference ofthe mindset yes um, these people
never worked, your, yourgrandma, they never worried
about not going hungry no, it'sweird.
And they were very poor.
Yes, they were extremely poor.
And yet you're right, becauseyou could always raise a chicken
(08:08):
, right, you could always bake aloaf of bread, you could always
grow something to eat, youcould always go fishing, you
know that's what you did.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
You go catch a rabbit , whatever they, they eat snails
.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I mean, sicily has a lot of volcanic rock, uh, around
the shoreline and you getlittle mollusks and little
snails and it's a whole thing togo and you catch them and you
bring them home and you cookthem.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Well, let's talk another reason about all of this
, all right, which I might getin trouble for later.
Yeah, it's fine, all right, but.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I'll protect you.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
But what?
Past six months, months or so,I have changed my diet to go to
more.
I do more things from scratchyes all right, instead of
prepackaged food.
Yes, since I have done this, Ihave not went out to set out to
lose weight but, yet I haveright a considerable amount too,
all right, so why don't wetrust in our food?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well, I'm going to make two comments to that All
right.
So the first is I'm also goingto give you shit for a minute,
all right, I'm just saying I'mnot saying this is perfect.
Because, you know, like anygood priestess, my mind is a
seal's trap and I remembereverything.
I distinctly remember a time,many, many, many moons ago yes,
(09:36):
remember a time, many, many,many moons ago, yes, where we
had someone in temple who washaving a discussion about making
marshmallows from scratch.
Yeah, I remember, and you wentoff on the funniest tangent I
have ever heard you.
I believe you actually saidokay, martha goodwitch, you can
go to the grocery store rightnow and buy a two dollar bag of
(10:01):
jumbo marshmallows and you'regonna waste an entire day making
marshmallows from scratchbecause the bad part the bad
part is about doing everythingfrom scratch is I spend a lot of
time?
Yes, in the kitchen yes, sookay, let's, let's break.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I'm not saying that, that doesn't that that problem
still doesn't exist no, andthat's the the thing I think it
is.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
it is proportionate to the amount of time that you
have available.
At that time, you were workinga very demanding full-time job
and you were running the churchfull-time.
The idea of making marshmallowsfrom scratch was enough to make
you want to beat your head intoa wall because there was no way
you had time for it.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
No, yeah, things have changed.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yes, so that is an important distinction we have to
make, right, we understand that.
But on the other side of thatcoin, people have yes, they look
, cooking is probably the the atan all-time worst right younger
(11:11):
generations do not cook.
I know almost no one in their20s who cooks and only a handful
of people in their 30s who do.
And I'm not talking about likecooks once in a while or can
make a meal.
I mean cooks for their family,like that's it.
They prepare food right, not?
(11:34):
I cook one meal a week and therest is takeout, and that's the
problem.
There's so much we don't knowwhat's in our food anymore,
because I feel like people don'twant to know.
The fda just banned red dyenumber three.
It causes cancer.
(11:55):
Oh, okay, just like red dyenumber six.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And red dye, number nine, that cause migraines.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Nine and number three , and let's keep going on down
the list.
Let's just go ahead and say reddye bad.
Right, unless it comes frombeets, red dye bad.
Red dye bad red dye bad like Imean, because it's pretty
straightforward.
If it's not a naturally deriveddye, why the fuck are you
(12:22):
putting it in your body?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
why are we putting dyes and preservatives that come
from petroleum products?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
which we know causes cancer.
I have always said, and I I'vebeen like this most of my life,
I mean even as well, probablynot as a little kid, but you
know if it can dye my tongue ormy skin, but it didn't come from
(12:49):
something natural that I cansee.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Like the plant or the fruit.
Why the fuck would I ingestthat?
What is that doing to theinside of me?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well, I mean just the fact that they've done this
Mm-hmm.
I mean, regardless of what, thered dye of three Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
The study was 30 freaking years ago and now we're
banning it and now we're doingthe damage is already done.
Yeah, so I'm back to and we'regiving them two years to phase
it out.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, so the damage is done and I and I'm sorry I do
I see obese stuff, I see whathappens to me, and if that's all
that is, then how many peopleare out there who are overweight
and all this other stuff can'tlose weight?
But they don't seem tounderstand what it's.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Well, but but again there's, there's multiple
barriers in place here.
So probably one of the biggestand one of the hardest is the
fact that processed foods arecheap and plentiful.
Yes, and because they are cheapand plentiful, people who are
stuck in a poverty cycle, theyhave a really hard time getting
(13:56):
out of it when they can justcontinue to eat this filling
garbage.
It's not, it's not fun and it'snot fair.
It has been said many, manytimes now it is tragic that it
is cheaper to buy literalgarbage food, food that is
(14:20):
terrible for you, than it is tobuy a basket of fruits and
vegetables.
That's tragic and in no way,shape or form, should that be
taking place.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
No, I mean that's just like in the school system.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
If you hear the lunch , ladies.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
everything comes in a box, everything.
They don't make nothing.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
They just warm everything back up.
Yeah, everything is packagedand prepared.
Reading labels, you know, hasbecome a big deal, but I think
okay.
So if we look at the pagancommunity, it's awareness, well,
I think, I think the pagancommunity is a little bit more
(15:00):
concerned about this subjectbecause, of our closeness to
nature yeah, I would agree withthat, but at the same time, the
system makes it so easy it doesTo just ignore it and not take
action.
So it's small change, right.
So the gardening thing we talkabout that, that was where we
(15:24):
started with us, right?
It is not a big endeavor totake a pot, put it at the front
or the back of your house andgrow tomatoes no it is an
incredibly easy summer crop thatis relatively low maintenance.
(15:45):
As crops go, I mean, you justhave to water it.
They're usually pretty easy.
Aside from that, steak it um.
I mean cucumbers are relativelyeasy peppers are relatively
easy.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Most of the herbs are easy.
Matter of fact, herbs are themost laziest gardening you can
do oh, herbs are fantastic.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I have at least four herbs in my garden right now
that I haven't planted inmultiple years and they're still
growing.
They're not supposed to be.
They should have been dead longago.
They're still kicking.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know most herbs.
If you ignore them, they'llgrow because they're technically
weeds.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, but herbs can be intimidating to people
because, again, it's kind oflike you have to know how to
cook or how to use the herb,right?
So I'm like, look, start withone or two vegetables and then
start using them.
And then start using them Nowwhen your crop is finished.
You're going to realize realquickly how painful it is to
(16:44):
then go to the grocery store andbuy that item.
Yeah, because you're going tobe appalled by what you're
spending for it.
Yeah, mm-hmm.
So start small and then add on.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Learn one recipe Right.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Learn one thing and make it something if you can.
That is a staple that you canfreeze quantities of, because I
also think that's a great way tosee like why would I spend
money on that?
Why would I buy that?
Now, you know me, I haven't.
(17:21):
I don't know that I've everbought jarred tomato sauce, but
I I thought that was a sin inyour house.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah right, it is, it is.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
It was recently brought to my attention that
jarred pasta sauces eight $9 ajar and I'm like what?
That's insane to me.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I, when I can go over to the can aisles, pick up a
can of tomatoes I can get.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I can get a can of crushed and a can of whole.
Give me 45 minutes.
You got sauce and I mean and,and for you, you know, four
dollars if it's on sale.
I mean, but even still, I go.
Sauce comes from my freezer, Ijust open it up and pull out a
container from the last batch.
Yeah, that, and also startingto buy in bulk and learn the
(18:18):
basics of dispatching.
Yeah, I am amazed by how many ofour young pagans are disgusted
by connecting with their foodsource.
They don't want to touch it.
They don't write raw chickenmeats, seafood, they don't want
to get their hands dirty.
And I'm like, listen, yeah, Imean, if I could, and it all
(18:43):
depends on, like, who we have intemple at any given time.
But make no mistake, one ofthese days you're going to walk
in in the kitchen and find mebutchering a whole raw something
and you're going to be likelike, what the hell are you
doing?
Oh, I'm teaching how to filletright now.
Okay, because, yeah, becausethose kinds of things are why we
(19:07):
are struggling with a foodcrisis.
People want to buy, you know,their chicken breasts, perfectly
packaged and ready to go, andI'm like why I can buy split
breast chickens with the, withthe ribs and the meat and the
bone and for like a quarter ofthe price, yeah, I just have to
(19:27):
do a little bit of work when Iget it home and then I have the
bones to make stock to makestock, which I do regularly also
.
So, yes, it's funny to me,because things like chicken
breast, chicken breast cracks meup.
Ask anybody our age the chickenthat they ate most growing up,
(19:47):
and the answer is always thesame drumsticks, drumsticks,
legs.
Why they're cheap?
They're cheap, they're darkmeat, which means it tastes
better yeah, and, and all kidslike the.
Yeah, all kids love a drumstickand they're just easy.
They're easy, yeah, I mean theycook quickly, like they're
versatile as hell.
There's so many different waysto prepare them and now
(20:10):
everything is white meat chicken.
White meat chicken.
White meat chicken.
White meat chicken.
White meat chicken is A themost expensive part of the
chicken, it's the most wastefulpart of the freaking chicken and
it's the one that's most shotup with hormones and BS to make
it bigger and plumper.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yep when.
I can go out and buy two poundsof chicken thighs.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Oh God I love chicken thighs For like half the house,
and here's the other one thatgets people every time Chicken
breasts is dry and tasteless.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, but there is a lot of that.
We had a power outage not thatmany months ago from a storm.
It was minor, but my brother'sneighborhood lost power minor,
um, but my brother'sneighborhood lost power and him
and his uh partner went out tojust kind of drive around see
what was going on and they saidthat everything in the
neighborhood was dead until theygot just outside of town and it
(21:08):
turns out that chick-fil-a hadpower and they said that the
line was wrapped twice aroundthe building and spilling out
into the street.
Okay, and Kenny said what'sgoing on?
He goes why are all thesepeople at Chick-fil-A?
(21:30):
And Brandon stopped and wentbecause none of them know what
to do when the power's out tocook a meal.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
He's like nobody knows what to do.
So they're panicking andthey're buying dinner at
Chick-fil-A because it's openand it has power.
They cooked dinner that nighton the barbecue.
Yeah, I just Uh-huh, I know.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
That's what I would have done.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I know I've cooked dinner in my hearth, in my
fireplace.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I have seen my mother cook breakfast on a wood stove
because we didn't have power.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm not saying it waseasy, but it did it.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
There was a fire running upstairs fire downstairs
, a foot of snow outside and allthe doors opened because it was
freaking hot in the house.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Cooking is like anything else it's a little bit
of know-how.
It's a little bit of knowledgethat you can then apply, and it
goes such a long way.
But so is fixing, so isrepairing, so are any of these
things.
So what's the point?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
We got work to do.
We need to be more self-reliant.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, no, you can't learn it all or anything but
there aren't as many skills asyou can.
We need this connection, yeahand I will say you know what, if
you want to get creative and gooff the rails in some way,
that's unique, knock yourselfout, go for it, but do it.
My daughter surprised the hellout of me when she showed me a
(23:03):
big tub of dirt and she pulled agiant beetle grub out of the
dirt in her hand and I went whatin God's name?
Because these things are huge.
They were the size of her palm.
Uh-huh, her property islittered with these giant beetle
grubs.
(23:23):
They're very destructive,obviously, because they're so
big, but they make those gianthorned beetles that are really
big and that people sometimeskeep as pets or they mount, she
started incubating them.
Now, in a way, it's bug farmingright yeah, yeah, she started
incubating the beetles so thatshe could.
Then because they don't livevery long, you know she would
(23:45):
allow them to live out theirlife cycle and then when they
die, she's got the carcass thatshe can mount or she can sell,
or you know any number of thingswith.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Let me make it.
Let me make it worse.
I've been looking up chickensand how to raise chickens and in
this process, I keep on hearingpeople talk about bug farms.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yes, to feed the chickens.
To feed the chickens, cricketsor whatever Black flies and
stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And I'm like, okay, so I don't even have to buy the
food to feed my chickens anymore, and I still can get eggs.
Yep, you know, because I'mstill back in the day.
At one point little house onthe prairie was real.
These people lived on this farm, did not leave, only left the
land on sundays to go to church.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
They only bought shoes they didn't go to the
grocery store there was a timewhere you couldn't buy honey
because your neighbors weregiving it away.
Yes, because there was so muchof it.
There's an interesting kind ofphenomenon of with the decline
of honeybees.
Yes, we know pesticides and allof that have a lot to do with
it, but part of that decline isalso the fact that people are
(24:47):
not beehiving anymore.
No, it used to be a lot.
Now we're starting to see acomeback, but for a large period
of time people stopped doing it, yeah you know, you know, we,
we have a weird, I don't want tosay obligation, but cultivating
(25:08):
something is one of the mostthings you can do, yeah, and to
be able to see how yourcultivation effort can benefit
yourself, your family and thenyour community starts to also, I
think, trigger other people tostart cultivating something, and
(25:31):
then we see that collectiveworking together more smoothly.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I mean cause.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I'm going to be honest with you I mean my goal
really right now is to at leastget one sabbath meal out of the
garden one year I um to be quitehonest with you oh, I know I
was sad I took last year offfrom my gardening because my
gardens are all containers andraised beds right, and
periodically you have to restthe soil because otherwise you
(25:58):
deplete it.
So I did.
I did a complete rest, so I hadnothing last year.
And it pained me because everytime I went to the farmer's
market I was begrudging becauseI'm like why am I praying for
this?
yeah, but anyway it is.
It's a lost art and we've we'vegot to get these things back.
We are in danger of losing somevery basic knowledge.
(26:23):
I mean, come on, I mean justwitchcraft alone.
How can we be witches whoaren't connected to a harvest?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
right, how can?
That's my point is how can webe pagan Every?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
single holiday, every single event on our calendar is
connected to the harvest, andwe actually have witches who
have never experienced a harvest.
Nope, that's madness.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
What it's like to have to go out there because
you've got to take all thetomatoes off you because it's
going to freeze tonight and youain't got.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well, and I'll tell you something that's really
funny and I learned this throughmy step kids it didn't, it
didn't dawn on me because I mean, like you, I grew up with it,
right we?
Always had a garden.
We always had somebody farmingor doing.
One of the fastest ways to getkids, a to eat vegetables, b to
connect to the garden and see,to look forward to it, is to get
(27:18):
them involved in the growing.
Yeah, my step kids would noteat a vegetable.
I'm being like nothing, likeyou know.
If you could get them eat apiece of lettuce, consider
yourself lucky.
Yet when they came to my houseand the garden was they can we
help pick, can we go out?
Yeah, yeah, and then it was get, taking that what they picked
(27:42):
and going.
Okay, now do you want to makesomething with it?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, great, now that we madesomething with her, are you
gonna eat it?
Yeah, yeah, because to them itwas just, and there it was.
There was the whole cycle rightin just a moment with these
children and I was like theyactually like this, yeah, yeah I
(28:02):
mean, and again, farming, ifit's a skill that you can have
you never go hungry, that's true.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
So speaking of farming, if we could just farm
some coffee beans.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Oh, that would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube and Reddit, and
so it is the end of our day, sowalk with me till morning
breaks.
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