April 9, 2025 • 22 mins
The boundary between personal faith and public expression creates some of our society's most charged interactions. Whether it's the coworker quietly praying before meals, street preachers with megaphones, or religious protesters at community events, these displays spark reactions ranging from respectful acknowledgment to visceral opposition.
The conversation explores religious expression as existing on a spectrum, and questions where reasonable boundaries might lie. Most importantly, we highlight the reciprocal nature of religious freedom: the moment we attempt to restrict one group's expression, we potentially compromise everyone's right to practice according to their conscience.
What emerges is a thoughtful examination of tolerance in a pluralistic society. Sometimes the most powerful response to religious displays we find uncomfortable isn't confrontation but simply continuing about our day; recognizing that freedom means accepting expressions we may disagree with. As we put it: "Religion is like shoes. Everybody needs it. It's just finding what fits." The wisdom lies in allowing others to find their fit without judgment while maintaining healthy boundaries for ourselves.
Join our conversation about navigating this delicate balance and subscribe to hear more discussions that bridge spiritual practices with everyday life challenges.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Alright, so here's somethingthat's popped up, okay.
Public displays of religion.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
It happens all the time.
It's like public displays ofaffection, right?
Some people don't like it, somepeople do, some people don't
mind it, right, some people areneither here nor there about it,
right, some people are neitherhere nor there about it, right?
So, when we talk about publicdisplays of religion, what are
some examples of this that youthink are prevalent to this
(00:55):
conversation?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, I mean, we got a variety of situations.
You got the lady at work whoalways prays right before meals.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Again, it's still everybody knows what she's doing
, she's not bothering anybody,she's not talking out loud or
anything like that.
She's praying, all right.
Then you have, like what thethe street preachers?
Okay, all right.
And in the parks and stuff likethat in certain places and all
that just out there preaching.
You know, that's like peoplegoing to the abortion places and
(01:28):
praying, okay, yeah.
Again.
Public displays of religionAgain, like you said, some
people like this, some peoplefind it annoying.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think we mainly find it annoying when it gets in
our way.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, yeah, For me it does anyway, Otherwise it
doesn't annoy way.
Well, yeah, for me it doesanyway, so otherwise it doesn't
annoy me, okay, okay, but thenthis would also be probably
protesters too, some protesters.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Because at pagan events sometimes you get
Christian protesters Right andwe know why they're there.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But Right, okay, so you mentioned the street
preachers.
Yeah, let's go with that onefor a minute, all right.
Yes, I see that as a publicdisplay of religion, but I also
see that as proselytizing.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, again, part of the Christian belief is to it is
.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So can we really fault them for that?
Because they're doing whatthey're supposed to Right.
They're doing what they believe.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
God commanded them to do.
I really don't have a problemwith this, but I know that there
are people out there that doand will go ape when they run
across these people.
I'm sorry.
The pagan community does havesome Karens.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Really, really Did.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I just say that out loud.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, I mean no, I know they do yeah because here's
my question which is worse?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
them actually the preachers doing this, or the our
pagan little Karens going apeover all this stuff?
Where you know what?
If you just would have kept onwalking and just let them be,
the universe would have gone on.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, and again something like this, and we're
going there again.
This falls under freedom ofreligion, right?
So if you're going to take awaysomebody's right to stand on
the street corner and preachtheir religion, right, or try to
stop people and talk to themabout their religion, then
(03:31):
that's going to stop us fromdoing our public rituals, right,
but?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
but I'm taking pride, no, no wait a minute, wait a
minute, no, no.
I have never seen, I have neverbeen out into the park and then
suddenly spontaneously, oh hey,I'm going to just do ritual
right now.
Well, no, are you?
I mean.
Well, no, but I'm sayingBecause we don't prophetize.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
No, but if you take away somebody's right to do
something, Right.
Then you're also taking awayyour rights to do something.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Right, and that I understand.
I'm just saying, but I guessthat's why I do Do you think we
might find it a little bit moreannoying?
Because we don't and they do.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Could be.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Are you with what I'm trying to ask?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
there I mean.
Well, you know, I remember atime being out at a at a gay
pride event.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And there was a street preacher there and there
were a lot of people giving hima hard time.
Yeah, I personally had noproblem with him being there.
Well, no, I mean, even thoughhe might have been using a
bullhorn, he might have beenloud, whatever, it didn't affect
me.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It was no louder than everybody else.
Right, it was no louder thanthe bands.
Or it was no louder than thebands.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Right, because you got all the music going on.
You got the crowd noise, yougot all kinds of stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But see, I'm back to this.
Why not just ignore it?
Why not just walk by?
Exactly?
Why sit there and glitter bomb?
I mean, don't get me wrong, Iunderstand if you're sitting
there and you're just having aconversation with them.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
No, I get it If you're having a conversation
with somebody, that's different.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
That's different.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
That's like you and me sitting down and having a
talk.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Right, Right.
I mean I have no problemsitting down talking to
Christians and just having anice conversation with them.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All right there's.
I don't see what the problem is.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I know quite a few Christians that are very nice
that way Well and you know, welived in a little town near the
Virginia state line and therewas this sweet, sweet woman who
came by at least once a week orso.
Jehovah's.
Witness stand outside talk toher for five, ten minutes.
(05:45):
She was so sweet, didn't botherme one bit that she came by and
she didn't really preach.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think she knew we were gay but she never really
would preach to us.
She'd hand us a pamphlet,invite us to church and then
leave.
Yeah and alright, or she might.
I think she offered to praywith us once yeah no, big deal
Like yeah
Speaker 1 (06:03):
sure.
Sure, whatever you know itmakes her feel better.
I wasn't, I had no problem withthat it's not something we do.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
We're not going to go out knocking on doors.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
No, I mean you don't.
Like I said earlier, it's notlike too many pagans are out on
their street corner thumpingtheir books of shadows.
You know I mean.
(06:39):
Mean when was the last timesomebody?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
walked up to you and go have you've got an activist
group who's willing to do that?
Then I think you could probablydo it, just to show what we can
do this too right you know wecan get up here and prophetize
right.
Is it something I'm gonnacondone?
(07:04):
No, no.
Is it something that I'm gonnado?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
no, but most pagan and I'm very broad terms here
all right, and most pay that.
Hence the reason I keep onusing pagan and most pagan
culture around here that we wereinvolved in prophesying is
really not done.
We don't know, we don't eventhink about it, you know.
The thought is is people shouldtry.
(07:29):
We want those who are searchingus out, not the other way,
which is kind of weird comparedto the other religions, because
it's like the other religions goout to find you again, to be a
fisherman or right to, and we'relike no, we want people who
seek us out.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, and I think that's because we see this as a
personal journey, right?
This is not something like whenpeople come to us hey, we're
going to teach you a way to dothis.
This is not the one and onlyway, right?
There are many ways to practicethis faceted religion.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
When we teach you our circle casting, that is for our
temple, and it's what we do,and it's what we always do, so
we all are on the same page.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Right.
But my point is when we teachthem that we specifically say
these things because it is apersonal thing.
If you go home and you're goingto cast circle in your house
and do your own little ritual,we expect that you're just going
to take and you're going toform your own way of doing
(08:37):
things.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
We're not telling you .
You have to do our way if youwant to.
Right, but that's what I'msaying.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We expect that you're going to take stuff from us.
You're going to take stuff, way, if you want to, Right, but
that's what I'm saying.
We expect that you're going totake stuff from us.
You're going to take stuff fromwhat you've read or maybe you
saw it a public ritual andyou're going to say, oh, I like
that.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I'm going to incorporate that into what I'm
doing.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
We fully expect you're going to do that.
Nothing wrong with it.
That's actually probably one ofthe best ways to practice this
religion.
You find what works for you.
Why?
Because it's a personal journey.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well I, as opposed to the other way, where we
physically sort of all knowwhat's going on.
That way, the next people thatcome in, they're going to be
(09:30):
taught the exact same way andthere's going to be less
conversation inside circle.
It makes it flow easier as agroup.
But to sit there and to sitthere and go, this has to be the
way I do this, in no other wayI don't yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I don't see that either, but with other public
displays like the, the lady atwork who prays before she eats,
right, right, or you may see herin the morning and she'll be in
the break room and before shestarts work she'll say a little
prayer.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, I've seen a few of them sit there and read
their Bible Right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
They're sitting there quiet.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's still a public display, but they're trying to
be to themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Let's put this on a scale.
If we were looking at publicdisplays of affection, this
would be like holding hands,sitting there reading your Bible
and praying to you.
You're not really.
I mean, we're not talking aboutthe couple that are on top of
each other and looks likethey're about to perform some
type of coitus in the middle ofthe store or something.
(10:41):
Again, this is sort of howwe're gauging this.
So should we?
Do you think we should?
Why do you think we downgradethis so much?
Why do we look at it completelyopposite?
Because some people would.
I could sit there and say somepeople would argue the podcast
itself is a form of profitizing.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I could see that.
I don't think it is simplybecause we're just trying to put
information out there, right,and it's not.
Our purpose is not to convertpeople.
Our purpose is for anybodywho's actively looking for
information, right, and maybewe've got some Christian
(11:26):
listeners who are just curiousabout the religion itself Right,
we're just trying to.
It's educational, it's not, butI could easily see how.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
See, because I firmly believe that religion's like
shoes Everybody needs it.
It's just finding what fitsRight.
Not all traditions are foreveryone.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Mm-mm.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Absolutely All right.
There's how many differentforms of Christianity, from
Catholicism all the way down tofour-square gospel snake
handlers Right, all the way downto four square gospel snake
handlers Right.
Why does everybody seem tothink that everybody has to fit
in one nice little neat categoryof religion?
See, I don't know, are you withme?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, I don't know why that's never made any sense
to me.
Well, I can't say never,Because growing up and the way I
was brought up, that's kind ofthe way I believed I believed
that everybody should fit intoChristianity.
And then the older I got, themore I realized okay, well,
(12:37):
there's different sects ofChristianity.
So you know, according todifferent sects of christianity,
catholics or not christians but, whatever, that's a different
argument yeah, but I'm not goingdown that path.
No I I always consideredcatholics a part of christianity
, said what, but?
But to just come, they werecompletely different from what I
(12:59):
was brought up in.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And so seeing that and recognizing that makes you
start to realize we can't allfit into one shoe, as you
graciously put it.
We can't all fit into one shoe.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
No, no.
So why do we force people?
Why is it so prevalent?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I think it's those religions have been bastardized.
Because, at the end of the day,nobody's 100% sure about any of
this.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
No.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You know, I mean I realize the Christians go no, no
, no, no, and I understand thatthey believe.
I mean, just like I mean Irealize the Christians go no, no
, no, no, and I understand thatthey believe.
I mean, just like I believewhat I believe.
But I just, I cannot sit thereand think of a world where there
aren't multiple differentbelief systems.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well, I think it boils down to that we don't
really have scientific evidenceto back up any one single
religion.
Right evidence to back up anyone single religion right.
So therefore, we have to kindof, we have to kind of treat it
like a radio and we have to.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I know I'm with some people are going to like the
countryside of things somepeople are going to like, the
more you know I mean because theonly, the only other way we
find out is hey, once we die,right, or if one of the big
religions prophecies finallycome true, right, because we
don't even have prophecies oranything about, because we don't
(14:30):
think there's anything wrongwith the world.
No, I think there's thingswrong with humanity but that's a
different story yeah I'm righton board with you, right there.
It's never made any sense to me,so I don't know how we fix it
though.
Well, I mean, I don't thinkthere is a way to fix it, you
(14:51):
know, because again, there wouldbe so much of Christianity that
they would have to change tostop doing that Right.
There would be so much of theMuslim doing that right.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
There would be so much of the muzzle that, and you
know there's, there's other,there's other displays that we
do as well.
I know you and I, we, we have apendant on our necklace right a
lot of pagans do a lot of.
Yeah, we're not big on thepagan jewelry, but we do have
one thing that we wear, so it'snot like we're going decked out
(15:23):
in pentagrams.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
They're not hubcaps sides.
You're doing shock value thejewel and whatever else, right.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I think there's a fine line there.
Keep it tasteful and don't doit for shock value, and I think
it'll be just fine.
It'll be just like mama used towear her cross all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, see, I won't even say it has to be tasteful,
uh-huh.
But you know you do you boo.
But I would rather you just notdo it for attention, I would
rather you not do itspecifically just to get
attention.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, then that's my personal opinion, because I
would prefer tasteful.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well then it becomes a conversation more about okay,
so what's tasteful?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh well, how about you show it to me and I'll tell
you if it's tasteful or not?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh, is this the whole porn thing?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
know what, if I see it again, that's just me, just
me so when you email.
Be sure to mention oswin,because that's all me.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying you knowharvard valley pta.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know your shirt and your skin, oswin, because
that's all me.
I'll take your complaints.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I'm just saying you know Harbor Valley PTA you know
your shirt and your skin and ifyou don't know that reference,
look up the song, you'll get it.
But I mean, there's other waysthat you can do your public
displays and still be notinconveniencing anyone, right,
(17:06):
like nobody, hardly nobody saysanything about my necklace.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Right.
I mean how inconvenient is itto be Muslim on an airplane when
you have to pray?
See, you know, and I get it,it's part of your religion, see,
and I get it, it's part of yourreligion and I realize you want
to do it, but you can't reallyblock the aisle of the plane,
right?
And I'm not sure how long thatlasts or how long they have to.
I'm not my field of expertise.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
So where do we draw the line with public displays,
or do we?
I don't think we do.
Do we just ignore it and goabout our business?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I think it's easier just to ignore it and move on.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
All right, instead of making a big deal out of it,
right?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I mean again, it's like if you don't like paganism,
why are you listening to apagan podcast?
I mean, if you don't likeChristianity, why are you
listening to a pagan podcast?
I mean, if you don't likechristianity, why are you
listening to a christian podcast?
Right, I'm sorry.
That's that whole hate watchthing.
Just stop.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah that's stupid rage porn rage.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That is the most stupidest thing ever.
But, like you said, like at thegay pride and stuff, if people
would just walk by them and justignore them, let them talk,
whatever, just keep on going.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well, and then too, when you're dealing with family
members, I remember going.
We went out to eat with my momand her sister and some other
friends, and they were all,they're all Christian.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And we were at this table.
It was probably about six of usand everybody wanted to hold
hands and pray before eating andI just kind of rolled my eyes a
little bit, but you know what?
Hey, I held hands with somebody.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You know?
Well, I mean, you know that'sgoing to family dinners and
stuff like that, and they wantto bless the meal at the
Thanksgiving and all that.
You just sort of bow your head,keep your mouth shut going.
Okay, yeah, it is.
It is a blessing, right, youknow?
I mean, considering we'vetalked about the source and our
concept of it, why in the worldare you going to peel your face
(19:10):
off just because they did christ?
I mean, it's not like we can'tsummon christ inside our circles
too.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I mean right still, I mean, like you said, it's a
blessing, and you know we do ourblessings in private.
Some people don't care wherethey do their blessings, and
that's fine.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You know, but yeah, no, no Street preachers and
stuff like that, and you know,just let them be, Just let them
be.
I mean that's just likeprotesters, let them protest.
I mean don't let them be.
I mean that's like you know,that's just like protesters, let
them protest.
I mean don't let them getviolent or whatever right, make
sure the police, whatever youknow.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
But there's, we have the right to protest stuff if we
don't like it well and and asfar as us doing our own public
displays of religion, I'm sorry,sorry, we have gathers.
I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
No, you want to go out and wear your little witch
hat and bedecked out inpentacles and pentagrams.
I'm not going to agree with it,but you go right ahead.
It's your freedom to do thatExactly.
They have their freedom, wehave ours.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, Like I said, I think just ignore them, walk on
and just be nice.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, don't be hateful.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You know there's, no, there's no need for that.
No, they're out there, we workwith them, we talk to them all
the time Better yet try tounderstand where they're coming
from.
Yes, how about you do that?
Or how about the fact that youunderstand that they believe in
their beliefs just as much asyou believe in yours, mm-hmm,
(20:56):
and maybe you should respect thefact that they believe in it
that much, right?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Because let me tell you what it takes some balls to
stand out on a street corner andbe a preacher.
It really does.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
It takes some balls to get up there and do that.
So how about you respect that?
Yeah, at least.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you ready for some coffee?
I am ready for some coffee.
All right, thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
We travel down this troddenpath, the maze of stone and mire
.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning
(21:56):
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And so it is the end of ourdays so walk with me till
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Alright, so here's somethingthat's popped up, okay.
Public displays of religion.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
It happens all the time.
It's like public displays ofaffection, right?
Some people don't like it, somepeople do, some people don't
mind it, right, some people areneither here nor there about it,
right, some people are neitherhere nor there about it, right?
So, when we talk about publicdisplays of religion, what are
some examples of this that youthink are prevalent to this
(00:55):
conversation?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well, I mean, we got a variety of situations.
You got the lady at work whoalways prays right before meals.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Again, it's still everybody knows what she's doing
, she's not bothering anybody,she's not talking out loud or
anything like that.
She's praying, all right.
Then you have, like what thethe street preachers?
Okay, all right.
And in the parks and stuff likethat in certain places and all
that just out there preaching.
You know, that's like peoplegoing to the abortion places and
(01:28):
praying, okay, yeah.
Again.
Public displays of religionAgain, like you said, some
people like this, some peoplefind it annoying.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think we mainly find it annoying when it gets in
our way.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, yeah, For me it does anyway, Otherwise it
doesn't annoy way.
Well, yeah, for me it doesanyway, so otherwise it doesn't
annoy me, okay, okay, but thenthis would also be probably
protesters too, some protesters.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Because at pagan events sometimes you get
Christian protesters Right andwe know why they're there.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But Right, okay, so you mentioned the street
preachers.
Yeah, let's go with that onefor a minute, all right.
Yes, I see that as a publicdisplay of religion, but I also
see that as proselytizing.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, again, part of the Christian belief is to it is
.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So can we really fault them for that?
Because they're doing whatthey're supposed to Right.
They're doing what they believe.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
God commanded them to do.
I really don't have a problemwith this, but I know that there
are people out there that doand will go ape when they run
across these people.
I'm sorry.
The pagan community does havesome Karens.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Really, really Did.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I just say that out loud.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, I mean no, I know they do yeah because here's
my question which is worse?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
them actually the preachers doing this, or the our
pagan little Karens going apeover all this stuff?
Where you know what?
If you just would have kept onwalking and just let them be,
the universe would have gone on.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, and again something like this, and we're
going there again.
This falls under freedom ofreligion, right?
So if you're going to take awaysomebody's right to stand on
the street corner and preachtheir religion, right, or try to
stop people and talk to themabout their religion, then
(03:31):
that's going to stop us fromdoing our public rituals, right,
but?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
but I'm taking pride, no, no wait a minute, wait a
minute, no, no.
I have never seen, I have neverbeen out into the park and then
suddenly spontaneously, oh hey,I'm going to just do ritual
right now.
Well, no, are you?
I mean.
Well, no, but I'm sayingBecause we don't prophetize.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
No, but if you take away somebody's right to do
something, Right.
Then you're also taking awayyour rights to do something.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Right, and that I understand.
I'm just saying, but I guessthat's why I do Do you think we
might find it a little bit moreannoying?
Because we don't and they do.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Could be.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Are you with what I'm trying to ask?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
there I mean.
Well, you know, I remember atime being out at a at a gay
pride event.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And there was a street preacher there and there
were a lot of people giving hima hard time.
Yeah, I personally had noproblem with him being there.
Well, no, I mean, even thoughhe might have been using a
bullhorn, he might have beenloud, whatever, it didn't affect
me.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It was no louder than everybody else.
Right, it was no louder thanthe bands.
Or it was no louder than thebands.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Right, because you got all the music going on.
You got the crowd noise, yougot all kinds of stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But see, I'm back to this.
Why not just ignore it?
Why not just walk by?
Exactly?
Why sit there and glitter bomb?
I mean, don't get me wrong, Iunderstand if you're sitting
there and you're just having aconversation with them.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
No, I get it If you're having a conversation
with somebody, that's different.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
That's different.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
That's like you and me sitting down and having a
talk.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Right, Right.
I mean I have no problemsitting down talking to
Christians and just having anice conversation with them.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All right there's.
I don't see what the problem is.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I know quite a few Christians that are very nice
that way Well and you know, welived in a little town near the
Virginia state line and therewas this sweet, sweet woman who
came by at least once a week orso.
Jehovah's.
Witness stand outside talk toher for five, ten minutes.
(05:45):
She was so sweet, didn't botherme one bit that she came by and
she didn't really preach.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think she knew we were gay but she never really
would preach to us.
She'd hand us a pamphlet,invite us to church and then
leave.
Yeah and alright, or she might.
I think she offered to praywith us once yeah no, big deal
Like yeah
Speaker 1 (06:03):
sure.
Sure, whatever you know itmakes her feel better.
I wasn't, I had no problem withthat it's not something we do.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
No.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
We're not going to go out knocking on doors.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
No, I mean you don't.
Like I said earlier, it's notlike too many pagans are out on
their street corner thumpingtheir books of shadows.
You know I mean.
(06:39):
Mean when was the last timesomebody?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
walked up to you and go have you've got an activist
group who's willing to do that?
Then I think you could probablydo it, just to show what we can
do this too right you know wecan get up here and prophetize
right.
Is it something I'm gonnacondone?
(07:04):
No, no.
Is it something that I'm gonnado?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
no, but most pagan and I'm very broad terms here
all right, and most pay that.
Hence the reason I keep onusing pagan and most pagan
culture around here that we wereinvolved in prophesying is
really not done.
We don't know, we don't eventhink about it, you know.
The thought is is people shouldtry.
(07:29):
We want those who are searchingus out, not the other way,
which is kind of weird comparedto the other religions, because
it's like the other religions goout to find you again, to be a
fisherman or right to, and we'relike no, we want people who
seek us out.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, and I think that's because we see this as a
personal journey, right?
This is not something like whenpeople come to us hey, we're
going to teach you a way to dothis.
This is not the one and onlyway, right?
There are many ways to practicethis faceted religion.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
When we teach you our circle casting, that is for our
temple, and it's what we do,and it's what we always do, so
we all are on the same page.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Right.
But my point is when we teachthem that we specifically say
these things because it is apersonal thing.
If you go home and you're goingto cast circle in your house
and do your own little ritual,we expect that you're just going
to take and you're going toform your own way of doing
(08:37):
things.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
We're not telling you .
You have to do our way if youwant to.
Right, but that's what I'msaying.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We expect that you're going to take stuff from us.
You're going to take stuff, way, if you want to, Right, but
that's what I'm saying.
We expect that you're going totake stuff from us.
You're going to take stuff fromwhat you've read or maybe you
saw it a public ritual andyou're going to say, oh, I like
that.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I'm going to incorporate that into what I'm
doing.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
We fully expect you're going to do that.
Nothing wrong with it.
That's actually probably one ofthe best ways to practice this
religion.
You find what works for you.
Why?
Because it's a personal journey.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well I, as opposed to the other way, where we
physically sort of all knowwhat's going on.
That way, the next people thatcome in, they're going to be
(09:30):
taught the exact same way andthere's going to be less
conversation inside circle.
It makes it flow easier as agroup.
But to sit there and to sitthere and go, this has to be the
way I do this, in no other wayI don't yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I don't see that either, but with other public
displays like the, the lady atwork who prays before she eats,
right, right, or you may see herin the morning and she'll be in
the break room and before shestarts work she'll say a little
prayer.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, I've seen a few of them sit there and read
their Bible Right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
They're sitting there quiet.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's still a public display, but they're trying to
be to themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Let's put this on a scale.
If we were looking at publicdisplays of affection, this
would be like holding hands,sitting there reading your Bible
and praying to you.
You're not really.
I mean, we're not talking aboutthe couple that are on top of
each other and looks likethey're about to perform some
type of coitus in the middle ofthe store or something.
(10:41):
Again, this is sort of howwe're gauging this.
So should we?
Do you think we should?
Why do you think we downgradethis so much?
Why do we look at it completelyopposite?
Because some people would.
I could sit there and say somepeople would argue the podcast
itself is a form of profitizing.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I could see that.
I don't think it is simplybecause we're just trying to put
information out there, right,and it's not.
Our purpose is not to convertpeople.
Our purpose is for anybodywho's actively looking for
information, right, and maybewe've got some Christian
(11:26):
listeners who are just curiousabout the religion itself Right,
we're just trying to.
It's educational, it's not, butI could easily see how.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
See, because I firmly believe that religion's like
shoes Everybody needs it.
It's just finding what fitsRight.
Not all traditions are foreveryone.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Mm-mm.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Absolutely All right.
There's how many differentforms of Christianity, from
Catholicism all the way down tofour-square gospel snake
handlers Right, all the way downto four square gospel snake
handlers Right.
Why does everybody seem tothink that everybody has to fit
in one nice little neat categoryof religion?
See, I don't know, are you withme?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, I don't know why that's never made any sense
to me.
Well, I can't say never,Because growing up and the way I
was brought up, that's kind ofthe way I believed I believed
that everybody should fit intoChristianity.
And then the older I got, themore I realized okay, well,
(12:37):
there's different sects ofChristianity.
So you know, according todifferent sects of christianity,
catholics or not christians but, whatever, that's a different
argument yeah, but I'm not goingdown that path.
No I I always consideredcatholics a part of christianity
, said what, but?
But to just come, they werecompletely different from what I
(12:59):
was brought up in.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And so seeing that and recognizing that makes you
start to realize we can't allfit into one shoe, as you
graciously put it.
We can't all fit into one shoe.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
No, no.
So why do we force people?
Why is it so prevalent?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I think it's those religions have been bastardized.
Because, at the end of the day,nobody's 100% sure about any of
this.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
No.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You know, I mean I realize the Christians go no, no
, no, no, and I understand thatthey believe.
I mean, just like I mean Irealize the Christians go no, no
, no, no, and I understand thatthey believe.
I mean, just like I believewhat I believe.
But I just, I cannot sit thereand think of a world where there
aren't multiple differentbelief systems.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well, I think it boils down to that we don't
really have scientific evidenceto back up any one single
religion.
Right evidence to back up anyone single religion right.
So therefore, we have to kindof, we have to kind of treat it
like a radio and we have to.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I know I'm with some people are going to like the
countryside of things somepeople are going to like, the
more you know I mean because theonly, the only other way we
find out is hey, once we die,right, or if one of the big
religions prophecies finallycome true, right, because we
don't even have prophecies oranything about, because we don't
(14:30):
think there's anything wrongwith the world.
No, I think there's thingswrong with humanity but that's a
different story yeah I'm righton board with you, right there.
It's never made any sense to me,so I don't know how we fix it
though.
Well, I mean, I don't thinkthere is a way to fix it, you
(14:51):
know, because again, there wouldbe so much of Christianity that
they would have to change tostop doing that Right.
There would be so much of theMuslim doing that right.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
There would be so much of the muzzle that, and you
know there's, there's other,there's other displays that we
do as well.
I know you and I, we, we have apendant on our necklace right a
lot of pagans do a lot of.
Yeah, we're not big on thepagan jewelry, but we do have
one thing that we wear, so it'snot like we're going decked out
(15:23):
in pentagrams.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
They're not hubcaps sides.
You're doing shock value thejewel and whatever else, right.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I think there's a fine line there.
Keep it tasteful and don't doit for shock value, and I think
it'll be just fine.
It'll be just like mama used towear her cross all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, see, I won't even say it has to be tasteful,
uh-huh.
But you know you do you boo.
But I would rather you just notdo it for attention, I would
rather you not do itspecifically just to get
attention.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, then that's my personal opinion, because I
would prefer tasteful.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well then it becomes a conversation more about okay,
so what's tasteful?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Oh well, how about you show it to me and I'll tell
you if it's tasteful or not?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh, is this the whole porn thing?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
know what, if I see it again, that's just me, just
me so when you email.
Be sure to mention oswin,because that's all me.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying you knowharvard valley pta.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know your shirt and your skin, oswin, because
that's all me.
I'll take your complaints.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I'm just saying you know Harbor Valley PTA you know
your shirt and your skin and ifyou don't know that reference,
look up the song, you'll get it.
But I mean, there's other waysthat you can do your public
displays and still be notinconveniencing anyone, right,
(17:06):
like nobody, hardly nobody saysanything about my necklace.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Right.
I mean how inconvenient is itto be Muslim on an airplane when
you have to pray?
See, you know, and I get it,it's part of your religion, see,
and I get it, it's part of yourreligion and I realize you want
to do it, but you can't reallyblock the aisle of the plane,
right?
And I'm not sure how long thatlasts or how long they have to.
I'm not my field of expertise.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
So where do we draw the line with public displays,
or do we?
I don't think we do.
Do we just ignore it and goabout our business?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I think it's easier just to ignore it and move on.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
All right, instead of making a big deal out of it,
right?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I mean again, it's like if you don't like paganism,
why are you listening to apagan podcast?
I mean, if you don't likeChristianity, why are you
listening to a pagan podcast?
I mean, if you don't likechristianity, why are you
listening to a christian podcast?
Right, I'm sorry.
That's that whole hate watchthing.
Just stop.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah that's stupid rage porn rage.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That is the most stupidest thing ever.
But, like you said, like at thegay pride and stuff, if people
would just walk by them and justignore them, let them talk,
whatever, just keep on going.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well, and then too, when you're dealing with family
members, I remember going.
We went out to eat with my momand her sister and some other
friends, and they were all,they're all Christian.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And we were at this table.
It was probably about six of usand everybody wanted to hold
hands and pray before eating andI just kind of rolled my eyes a
little bit, but you know what?
Hey, I held hands with somebody.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You know?
Well, I mean, you know that'sgoing to family dinners and
stuff like that, and they wantto bless the meal at the
Thanksgiving and all that.
You just sort of bow your head,keep your mouth shut going.
Okay, yeah, it is.
It is a blessing, right, youknow?
I mean, considering we'vetalked about the source and our
concept of it, why in the worldare you going to peel your face
(19:10):
off just because they did christ?
I mean, it's not like we can'tsummon christ inside our circles
too.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I mean right still, I mean, like you said, it's a
blessing, and you know we do ourblessings in private.
Some people don't care wherethey do their blessings, and
that's fine.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You know, but yeah, no, no Street preachers and
stuff like that, and you know,just let them be, Just let them
be.
I mean that's just likeprotesters, let them protest.
I mean don't let them be.
I mean that's like you know,that's just like protesters, let
them protest.
I mean don't let them getviolent or whatever right, make
sure the police, whatever youknow.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
But there's, we have the right to protest stuff if we
don't like it well and and asfar as us doing our own public
displays of religion, I'm sorry,sorry, we have gathers.
I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
No, you want to go out and wear your little witch
hat and bedecked out inpentacles and pentagrams.
I'm not going to agree with it,but you go right ahead.
It's your freedom to do thatExactly.
They have their freedom, wehave ours.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, Like I said, I think just ignore them, walk on
and just be nice.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, don't be hateful.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You know there's, no, there's no need for that.
No, they're out there, we workwith them, we talk to them all
the time Better yet try tounderstand where they're coming
from.
Yes, how about you do that?
Or how about the fact that youunderstand that they believe in
their beliefs just as much asyou believe in yours, mm-hmm,
(20:56):
and maybe you should respect thefact that they believe in it
that much, right?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Because let me tell you what it takes some balls to
stand out on a street corner andbe a preacher.
It really does.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
It takes some balls to get up there and do that.
So how about you respect that?
Yeah, at least.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you ready for some coffee?
I am ready for some coffee.
All right, thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
We travel down this troddenpath, the maze of stone and mire
.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning
(21:56):
breaks.
And so it is the end of ourdays so walk with me till
morning.
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