December 25, 2024 • 31 mins
Ever wondered why a spatula or a grocery list might be revered as magical artifacts within pagan circles? Join us as we navigate the whimsical and often hilarious journey of how everyday objects gain sacred status simply by being associated with influential figures. We'll question whether these perceived mystical items are genuine or just opportunities for profit, and explore what truly happens to magical items—are they destroyed, preserved, or commodified for the masses?
We fondly remember Lord Merlin from the Ravenwood tradition, reflecting on how his possessions were shared with respect and love. As we dissect the intersection of commerce and spirituality, we'll challenge the ethics of selling magical items on platforms like eBay and Etsy. A heartfelt story about a cherished batch of incense brings home the personal and communal significance of spiritual artifacts. Join us for an episode filled with humor, introspection, and a touch of magic, as we explore the legacy of pagan artifacts in our modern world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyabba and lord knight all right,
the holy spatula.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh my gosh, this is one of my favorite.
Can we tell the story?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
all right, I'm gonna tell the story.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Okay, okay, okay so when I was a neophyte I don't
even think I was the first, yetactually I don't.
I think you were neophyte wewere having a discussion right
in one of my classes aboutmagical tools and about, you
know, sacred objects and all ofthese things, and we were also
(01:00):
talking about how many, manyitems things that are used by
pagans become misconstrued as amagical or a sacred object, and
the example that you gave inclass was the holy grocery list.
Yes, and literally this wasthat you might run across a
(01:25):
elder's book literally a book, abook of magic, a book of
paganism, whatever it might be,a book on craft, and inside it
you might find a list Right andpeople will become obsessed.
I found this.
I found this.
This is look look at this.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
This is from one of our elders.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
This is from one of our elders.
This must be very, veryimportant.
What is this?
Uh, that's a grocery list,that's it.
He used it as a bookmark, yeah,and, but but initially, right,
everybody thinks it must be arecipe or a spell or something,
something.
And so I am a bit.
I love ebay, okay, I love ebay,I shop for a lot of things on
(02:08):
ebay.
And I sent you a link and Iwent look what I found, and it
became dubbed henceforth theholy, because someone was
literally selling what they werecalling a magical item, a tool
(02:30):
of witchcraft, from an elder.
I mean, they had this person'sname, they had a whole history.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
This was a big old story, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
It was intense.
It was a literal cookingspatula.
It was an old metal spatulawith a wooden handle.
That was it.
That was it.
There was nothing special aboutit.
There was nothing.
It was just someone's spatula.
(02:59):
We're appalled that someone istrying to sell and make money
off of this item just because anelder, third degree right or
witch, queen or whatever touchedit, used it.
What made this magical?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
This is the same thing as priests blessing their
golf clubs.
Yeah, for a better shot there.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I mean, maybe she this was just her favorite
spatula.
It made no sense and and so andthis is a.
We have seen this time and timeagain now charms right the the
belief that just because one ofus held it, used it, owned it,
(03:50):
possessed it, it must be special, okay.
So, a is there any truth tothat?
B is this just a bunch ofgreedy people trying to make
money or take advantage ofpeople?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Well, as far as charms go, I can see where, if
someone has worn the samenecklace or ring their whole
entire lives, this becomes aspecial item.
But this is more of a specialitem that represents the person,
not the.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Not a spiritual application.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah, not the not a spiritual application.
Yeah, I mean this is not like amagical item from a game.
Where in the world you're goingto get stat boost for buying a
rich?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
yeah, I mean let's all right.
So let's, let's back up asecond here and let's talk about
what really happens to our truemagical items yeah, what really
?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
because I'm sorry, I don't think you'll ever find
those items on ebay you might besurprised, but but here's the
but, here's the reality.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Most of us have right atham, athame, whatever you
want to call it, ceremonialknife.
We have our cords.
We have some of us have our ownchalice.
We have our own patent, whichis our offering bowl dish.
We may have um altar otheraltar tools, statues,
(05:18):
representations, candles.
Some of us have pentagrams thatwe carry as a disc or an object
for use in circle.
Right we have a thermal or anincense holder right some sort.
So okay, most of these aredestroyed yes they are either
(05:44):
destroyed and burned, they areburied with us, or in case of
books and stuff like that arekept in archives they become
property of the temple, thetemple at large, and so many of
our quote-unquote charms areactual books, especially books
(06:09):
never leave.
Books become a part of thearchive and or are distributed
amongst trusted members of thegroup, but other things wands,
for instance, staves, stains, Imean very little of that is kept
(06:29):
.
Now there may be an exceptionmade whereby it might be gifted
to a practitioner who was closeto that person and someone who
knew them well, but most of itis yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Because some of these items that we're talking about,
a solitary is not going to have.
I don't see many solitariesgoing around using swords.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
No.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
They might, but not they might but.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
If a solitary has a sword, in all likelihood it's
just because they like the sword.
It's not because they wereusing it ceremonially, right.
But I don't think we're talkingabout solitaries here.
We're talking about people whohave a certain amount of
notoriety inside of craft, or atleast a lineage, a heritage
(07:22):
inside of craft, and that's whytheir belongings become coveted.
But therein lies the problem.
That word coveted, yeah, Idon't.
Why would you want someoneelse's spiritual?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
This is rough, rough like there are well, I mean some
of the stuff I have a problemwith I.
I cannot see anybody sittingthere.
I can't see me going aroundgoing.
Oh yeah, that was lord man'srobe here, let me wear it yeah,
I could see so.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Okay.
So there's so many aspects tothis, right?
So, ok, ritual clothing.
Ritual clothing to me isinteresting because, yes, on one
hand you go, oh, I don't knowif any of us would want to wear
it, being very practical andsaying, well, maybe we have
(08:28):
someone who is a similar sizeand build and they can't afford
or don't have their own robe, sowe will gift it to them after a
good cleansing.
Yeah, but that's the pointwe're cleansing it first.
You're getting a brand new robe,whether you know it or not.
Certain things we are going tobe practical about.
Certain things we are going tobe practical about right, but
(08:51):
other things I mean.
Okay, here's a case in pointwhenever one of us dies, there
is inevitably a bunch of boxesand jars yes if said boxes and
jars are sealed, usually withwax, and made difficult to get
into and I have had this happenand had this conversation with
many, many other members ofcraft what is it?
(09:12):
Should we open it?
Nope, it's getting destroyed.
Why we don't know what's in it.
We don't want to know, we don'tneed to know.
That's the whole point.
If painstaking measures weremade to seal it, leave it alone.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
For crying out loud.
I remember moving and youhaving to label boxes.
Items may be enchanted.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yes.
Handle with caution yeah,handle with care.
Items may be enchanted.
Yeah, I mean, that is yeah.
Books of shadows that is, yeah,um, books of shadows.
People's personal books eitherbecome the property of the
church itself, and usually theresiding priest and priestess
(09:56):
take what is necessary from itright and the rest is again
destroyed or it's kept, kept,yeah, in archive for posterity.
But that's it.
Nobody's being handed that bookand, in many cases, good luck
reading it.
They don't even make sense.
(10:17):
They're gobbledygook, exceptfor the person who wrote it,
right.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Because I mean I'm sure you look through mine you
got half a recipe on one andthen a half a recipe on another
page for chicken salad.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I know one person who does her book completely in
cipher.
Good luck.
Have fun with that, yeah, yeah,it's like we're not going to.
This is not the Zodiac killerhere.
We're not going to sit here andtry to decode None.
I mean, come on.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I know many.
I know many of traditionalistswho still write their books in
Theban.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Mm-hmm.
Yes, but at the end of the day,one of the things we
acknowledge is that, again, theHoly Grail is not in those pages
.
Mm-mm, holy grail is not inthose pages.
We could spend 25 or minutes anhour decoding a page in theban
(11:13):
just to go oh it's the witch'sread exactly the charge of the
goddess it's common knowledgeNow crystals, potions, herbs,
incenses, brews, things thatthat person may have made or
used regularly, yeah, they getgifted.
(11:37):
Yeah, they get gifted to otherpeople that again, those that
they knew.
Other people, that again, thosethat they knew usually.
I remember, when lord merlinpassed away from the ravenwood
tradition, they, they didsomething really cool.
I give them a lot of credit theway ravenwood handled this.
So there was a large, massiveevent when he passed away and
(12:03):
they set up a space on theproperty because this was a,
this was a his um requiem was aweekend event.
It was a big to do.
Lots of people came from allover.
So they set up a space wherethey basically said if you walk
up the hill and you go into themain building, there is a room
(12:29):
where we have a bunch of lordmerlin's possessions, items that
were, in whatever way,connected to his practice.
These you are welcome to takewhat you like, feel free.
And it was.
It was very nice, it wasbeautiful, it wasn't.
(12:51):
It was a little awkward in thesense that some of us who didn't
know him personally, rightwhere we were.
There was hesitation, obviouslyso many, like I remember, and it
was funny because Lord Merlinwas gay.
I remember looking at a lot ofthese items and things and going
(13:13):
this isn't, these aren't mineto take.
Right, there's something Ididn't have that needed
connection to him in life.
But I do remember there was asort of a sash or like a ribbon.
It was the rainbow flag and Iwent that one Because it was
(13:35):
just a ribbon.
There was nothing tremendouslyspecial about it.
He may have at some point maybeworn it around his neck during
a ritual of some sort, maybe fora pride-based event, maybe for
something in june, I don't know.
But that I was like, yes, thisis something I would like to
(13:55):
have to remember him by, and Itook it and that's it, and it it
sits now with my magical fair,you know, and it's got a little.
I just took a little Sharpieand wrote Merlin.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
But I'm going to say this I'm going to try not to be
nice but, at no point did anyoneever go onto eBay and post this
going.
Hey, Lord Merlin passed awayhere.
Yeah, Would you like his loofah?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
No, it was.
It was freely given away.
Anyone could take whatever theylike.
Now I mean again, these werevery selected items.
Why?
Because someone like LordMerlin, who was a holy moly.
He was a third degree for 40some odd years.
I think, he had a massive amountof things collected and he had
(14:45):
a wardrobe.
His tradition is a little showyright, and they like a little
bit of flair for drama inside oftheir rituals.
He had a lot of different typesof robes and garments and that
was the main thing that wasbeing offered up because he
might have worn some of themonce right or maybe only once
(15:09):
every so often.
Easy peasy, but no one wassitting there holding an auction
, right going.
You know, here is the holyspatula, you know do I have ten
dollars, ten dollars fifteendollars.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Come on no with that said now let's flip the script
here.
How many witches do you knowthat is going to actually cast
that spell on the spatula or onthe front?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
but that's the thing.
I think a lot of these peoplethat are doing this that are out
there, you know, with these,this is an enchanted item, a
magical item, a blessed item.
There is a problem with thisbecause, no, none of that has
actually taken place.
This is just an item that hasbeen used by.
So at that point, are webasically deifying that person?
(16:00):
To some extent, I think we are.
Is this, like you know, thebuddha phenomenon, the dalai
lama, right, it's been blessedby or it's been used by.
So we're basically saying thatthe mere touch of this person
bless this item and it has nowmade it powerful well, or I'm,
I'm, or I'm actually.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
I'm actually going a little bit farther than that,
when you think about our actualblessing ritual.
Can you see me taking myfreaking frying pan out there to
do the actual blessing Good?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
gravy.
Just to get my frying pan to dobetter, good gravy.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I don't, yeah, no, no .
Do you see what I'm saying?
This?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
is not happening.
I do.
I do Because typically, when webless something, we are doing
it in ritual space for ritual,for ritual.
Yes, there are.
There are two objects sittingon your desk right now.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give awaythe least that I can here, right
, because they came out of lastnight's ritual.
(16:56):
They were blessed yes but it wasfor a specific working.
If anyone were to find those 20years from now and you and I
are long gone, no one is goingto say, oh, these are blessed.
How would they know that is?
(17:17):
And never would anyone see thatand think, oh, those are
special, they're so mundane,it's hilarious.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Now there is a fear that man Lord man brought up
about this behavior.
All right, and the fear is isthat, yes, someone is going to
get a hold of a book of shadowsor something.
We have half written somethingdown and somebody is going to
wind up with a holy chickensalad yes, it happens, it's been
happening.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
So all of the tradition heads right, be it
gardner, be it crowley, be itthe frosts right, this has
happened.
Yes, there has been partialwritings or something that was
not crowley especially goodgrief.
(18:12):
You know something?
And and still people areobsessing over it, obsessed with
it, trying to decode it, tryingto understand it.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
It might be absolutely nothing because I
don't know how many times I havesat down and started to write
something to my book of shadows,to get about halfway through
and go.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
This isn't going exactly where I thought it was
yeah, or you got busy doingsomething else and you forgot to
go back to it well, I mean,it's just like the podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
so conversations, we'll, we'll be sitting here
doing, we'll be trying, we'lllook at each other going.
This ain't working.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
It's like anything, it happens and it's a very but
it's a strange to me.
It's a strange phenomenon thatwe go acknowledge and accept
that the children of the craftare all children of the craft.
(19:05):
What makes one of us, or aselect number of us, more
powerful?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
special?
I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
It's very weird because, again, mason, where I
am, I don't.
It's very weird.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Because, again, mason , where I am, I don't feel
myself as special as and I don'tmean this mean, but as
sometimes I get out in publicwhen I'm in the pagan community,
do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Sure, but I look at it this way too.
Something of yours, it'simportant to me because it's a
connection that I can make backto you.
But I know you, yeah, we have arelationship.
I cannot imagine looking atsomeone and saying this is lord
(20:00):
knight's q-tip god, I hope notright I mean, I'm coming up with
the most ridiculous thing, butyou are right but then how?
okay, so if this person has noconnection, no knowledge of you
or the bare minimum, all right,number one, how are they going
to tap into that?
(20:21):
Number two what are they goingto do with it?
What can you possibly?
So back to the holy spatula.
Even if you could, what are yougoing to achieve with it?
A better omelet flip?
It's a spatula.
I can.
I cannot conceive, and I am akitchen witch and I can't think
(20:43):
of a single thing that I woulddo with a spatula.
Actually, I can when my dog isbeing a poo in the kitchen, and
I mean this when, when one ofthe dogs is up my ass while I'm
trying to cook, the spatula isusually what I shoo them with.
You, you know and I kind of waveit around until they move out
(21:05):
of the room kind of like grandmawith the wooden spoon yes and
but, and that's what was funny.
That was going to be my nextpoint.
I would rather have a woodenspoon than a spatula spatula any
day of the week.
That spoon has seen some shit.
That spoon has a story.
That spoon it's a and it's avery and I don't know.
(21:29):
Part of it's because it's wood,part of it is because it's a
porous material right.
Part of it is because it has amore intentioned use long term
than just something that flipssomething and plus it also used
to be alive at some point that'strue too.
Yes, I mean so I don't get andwe have seen this, we've seen
(21:52):
this time and time again whereit's almost like you can do it
right now.
Go to ebay now.
Some of the auction sites Ithink ebay was one of them at
some point they tried to put acurb to.
They tried to stop some of this.
They tried to get it off of theselling of charms and the
selling of yeah, magical objects.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
They tried to do this on eBay, but then they realized
the bulk of their sales iscraft people.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
No, I don't think that's necessarily true.
There's a lot that goes on oneBay that's outside of craft for
sure.
Or was that etsy, I'm thinkingoh, it might be etsy, but etsy,
etsy did it too, they put a theyput a like you can't sell and
then they reversed it yeah, likethere's a there's because there
are.
There are people on etsy thatwill literally sell a intention.
(22:38):
Yes, pay me ten dollars andI'll light this candle for you.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Yes, and that to me, is going along the same what
this.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It's wild.
It's wild, and so I'm veryhesitant on a lot of these.
I do think a lot of it's greedyyeah.
I think it is taking advantageof people who are potentially at
their lowest or at a vulnerableplace yes.
But to me, no one who is amember of craft, a person
(23:18):
connected with a group, initiateor not, would never do this,
never.
They would give it to you, yes,before they sold it, yes, and
it would be that simple.
Well, oh, what is that?
Oh well, that was some oflordman's.
You know, that was some of hiskitchen.
Right?
Can I have one?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
sure, pick what you want one less thing I got to do
something with yeah, but they'renot going to sell it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's not going to be.
No, absolutely not.
And if they do take money forit, it's a donation that goes
back to the church or it's goingto be a yard sale or something
where it's nothing reallysubstantial.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Exactly.
But I mean, I have seen it'sunbelievable whole lots of
people's mundane lives beingthrown up there like it is
somehow magical in nature.
And then what are people tryingto do?
Extract it.
This is where I also go.
Hollywood has done us adisservice.
Yeah, you know, I mean we'renot it's we're not collectors
(24:20):
items not really.
No, we're not.
We're also traditionalists,especially, there is a.
There is a rule I don't know ifwe've talked about the.
Talked about this on thepodcast before Upon our death,
the temple comes in and takeseverything.
Yes, we seize it.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I mean, that's the and that's part of why.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Why we're getting ahead of two things happening.
One, the family accidentallygiving something away that they
shouldn't.
That they shouldn't or selling.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
it shouldn't or selling it, and but the other is
making certain that it doesn'tbecome abused or or
misappropriated.
Yeah, I mean because, as far asI know, we don't have any of
these things like, like and notknocking catholics, but like.
We don't have the saint fingerwhat do you?
(25:11):
Mean, well, we don't have these.
I've never seen these artifacts.
We don't have what saintchristopher's finger or the
shroud of tauren or we don'thave.
I've never seen these thingsthat's what's ironic, right?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
yeah, your relics we don't have.
We don't have relics.
No, now that's reallyinteresting because our relics,
if we want to get technicalright, they're in museums.
Yes, there are archaeologicalfinds and they're in museums
somewhere.
Every once in a while, a storycomes out of europe it's always
(25:46):
the uk.
It gets me so mad, right,there's always viking horde of
you know found in your, and I'mlike damn it, I just want one
coin, one coin?
I don't even want one coin, Ijust want to find it, look at it
and drool, yeah, yeah exactly,and it's just those are cool,
that those would be relics, butyes, they end up going to
(26:08):
museums.
We don't, you're right, we havenothing like that now I am sure
.
I'm sure thelemites they do.
Yeah, there are possessions ofcrowleys that I could just about
guarantee that somebody hassomewhere.
(26:29):
They have been carefullyarchived and capped and, yes,
the thelamites have relics umthe gardenarians from gardener
and somebody's got a relic yes,absolutely somewhere, but it's
not being sold, it's not beingauctioned, it is being carefully
(26:49):
kept, preserved and ultimately,it becomes part of the
religious heritage whereby, I'mcertain, any practitioner.
May I see it?
Yes, can you touch it?
No, can you look at it?
Sure, yeah, there are museums ofwitchcraft, for instance.
(27:14):
I mean, we know that they existin a few places throughout the
world.
Things like that do exist there, yes, but good grief, I mean,
when I go, yeah, no, I don'twant to find out that some you
know tea that I was brewing tohelp with a period cramp is now
(27:34):
suddenly being sold as some assome cure, you know, for some
ridiculous thing.
No, stop it, stop it, stop itnow.
That being said, within atradition, again, yes, there are
things we have, we still have.
This is very funny.
Well, it's cute.
More than anything, we stillhave what I consider to be
(27:59):
whether it is or is not, I don'tknow the last batch of incense
Lord Min made.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Oh God yes.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Lord Min has been gone a while.
Okay, he made his own incenseand we have his sauer blend that
he made for many, many, manysounds ago.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Um, I, think it's been over 10 years it's been
longer than that.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
It's been longer than that.
It's been closer to 15.
Oh crap, he made such anabundance of this right he
brought it to us.
He made such an abundance ofthis right he brought it to us
for that night.
I mean it was almost laughable.
Right, it was one ritual.
He brought us like a pound ofincense in powdered form.
I mean it's incredible.
So we have it and we use it.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
We continue to use it .
Speaker 3 (28:49):
We continue to use it and, interestingly enough, I
have given some of it away.
I have.
Every now and then I will meetan elder who's like oh yes, I
knew, lord Mint, would you like?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
some of his incense.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, but there's no, it's just incense.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
It's nothing, no, no Matter of fact, I think we even
have the recipe, probably.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Probably, but it's just nice that it's a connection
to him.
So please don't, just justdon't.
We don't want to be seen thatway.
Um, if anything, think of itlike your your grandmother's
right spatula, if you're luckyenough to have it.
Your grandmother's weddingdress, whatever, your
grandmother's right spatula, ifyou're lucky enough to have it
your grandmother's wedding dress.
Whatever?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Your grandmother's wedding ring.
These are things that familieshold on to.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
But honestly, though, some people I mean look, my
family can cook.
If I could have mygrandmother's spatula, I'd be
quite happy with that.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
But I understand that that's your connection to your
grandmother.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
But that's what I'm saying, that's how we want to be
viewed.
I don't.
But I'm not going to see it asa spiritual item or something
sacred or hell.
I wouldn't even cook with itanymore, I would just let it
hang out in the kitchen I can'tsay nothing.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
I have measuring spoons over there that was that
I never use there you go yep, soyep.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
That's the story of the holy spatula.
Let's have some holy coffee,shall we Okay, Thanks for
listening.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Join us next week for another episode.
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Speaker 2 (30:34):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of ourdays.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
(30:58):
our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyabba and lord knight all right,
the holy spatula.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh my gosh, this is one of my favorite.
Can we tell the story?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
all right, I'm gonna tell the story.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Okay, okay, okay so when I was a neophyte I don't
even think I was the first, yetactually I don't.
I think you were neophyte wewere having a discussion right
in one of my classes aboutmagical tools and about, you
know, sacred objects and all ofthese things, and we were also
(01:00):
talking about how many, manyitems things that are used by
pagans become misconstrued as amagical or a sacred object, and
the example that you gave inclass was the holy grocery list.
Yes, and literally this wasthat you might run across a
(01:25):
elder's book literally a book, abook of magic, a book of
paganism, whatever it might be,a book on craft, and inside it
you might find a list Right andpeople will become obsessed.
I found this.
I found this.
This is look look at this.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
This is from one of our elders.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
This is from one of our elders.
This must be very, veryimportant.
What is this?
Uh, that's a grocery list,that's it.
He used it as a bookmark, yeah,and, but but initially, right,
everybody thinks it must be arecipe or a spell or something,
something.
And so I am a bit.
I love ebay, okay, I love ebay,I shop for a lot of things on
(02:08):
ebay.
And I sent you a link and Iwent look what I found, and it
became dubbed henceforth theholy, because someone was
literally selling what they werecalling a magical item, a tool
(02:30):
of witchcraft, from an elder.
I mean, they had this person'sname, they had a whole history.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
This was a big old story, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
It was intense.
It was a literal cookingspatula.
It was an old metal spatulawith a wooden handle.
That was it.
That was it.
There was nothing special aboutit.
There was nothing.
It was just someone's spatula.
(02:59):
We're appalled that someone istrying to sell and make money
off of this item just because anelder, third degree right or
witch, queen or whatever touchedit, used it.
What made this magical?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
This is the same thing as priests blessing their
golf clubs.
Yeah, for a better shot there.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I mean, maybe she this was just her favorite
spatula.
It made no sense and and so andthis is a.
We have seen this time and timeagain now charms right the the
belief that just because one ofus held it, used it, owned it,
(03:50):
possessed it, it must be special, okay.
So, a is there any truth tothat?
B is this just a bunch ofgreedy people trying to make
money or take advantage ofpeople?
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Well, as far as charms go, I can see where, if
someone has worn the samenecklace or ring their whole
entire lives, this becomes aspecial item.
But this is more of a specialitem that represents the person,
not the.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Not a spiritual application.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah, not the not a spiritual application.
Yeah, I mean this is not like amagical item from a game.
Where in the world you're goingto get stat boost for buying a
rich?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
yeah, I mean let's all right.
So let's, let's back up asecond here and let's talk about
what really happens to our truemagical items yeah, what really
?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
because I'm sorry, I don't think you'll ever find
those items on ebay you might besurprised, but but here's the
but, here's the reality.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Most of us have right atham, athame, whatever you
want to call it, ceremonialknife.
We have our cords.
We have some of us have our ownchalice.
We have our own patent, whichis our offering bowl dish.
We may have um altar otheraltar tools, statues,
(05:18):
representations, candles.
Some of us have pentagrams thatwe carry as a disc or an object
for use in circle.
Right we have a thermal or anincense holder right some sort.
So okay, most of these aredestroyed yes they are either
(05:44):
destroyed and burned, they areburied with us, or in case of
books and stuff like that arekept in archives they become
property of the temple, thetemple at large, and so many of
our quote-unquote charms areactual books, especially books
(06:09):
never leave.
Books become a part of thearchive and or are distributed
amongst trusted members of thegroup, but other things wands,
for instance, staves, stains, Imean very little of that is kept
(06:29):
.
Now there may be an exceptionmade whereby it might be gifted
to a practitioner who was closeto that person and someone who
knew them well, but most of itis yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Because some of these items that we're talking about,
a solitary is not going to have.
I don't see many solitariesgoing around using swords.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
No.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
They might, but not they might but.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
If a solitary has a sword, in all likelihood it's
just because they like the sword.
It's not because they wereusing it ceremonially, right.
But I don't think we're talkingabout solitaries here.
We're talking about people whohave a certain amount of
notoriety inside of craft, or atleast a lineage, a heritage
(07:22):
inside of craft, and that's whytheir belongings become coveted.
But therein lies the problem.
That word coveted, yeah, Idon't.
Why would you want someoneelse's spiritual?
Speaker 4 (07:45):
This is rough, rough like there are well, I mean some
of the stuff I have a problemwith I.
I cannot see anybody sittingthere.
I can't see me going aroundgoing.
Oh yeah, that was lord man'srobe here, let me wear it yeah,
I could see so.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Okay.
So there's so many aspects tothis, right?
So, ok, ritual clothing.
Ritual clothing to me isinteresting because, yes, on one
hand you go, oh, I don't knowif any of us would want to wear
it, being very practical andsaying, well, maybe we have
(08:28):
someone who is a similar sizeand build and they can't afford
or don't have their own robe, sowe will gift it to them after a
good cleansing.
Yeah, but that's the pointwe're cleansing it first.
You're getting a brand new robe,whether you know it or not.
Certain things we are going tobe practical about.
Certain things we are going tobe practical about right, but
(08:51):
other things I mean.
Okay, here's a case in pointwhenever one of us dies, there
is inevitably a bunch of boxesand jars yes if said boxes and
jars are sealed, usually withwax, and made difficult to get
into and I have had this happenand had this conversation with
many, many other members ofcraft what is it?
(09:12):
Should we open it?
Nope, it's getting destroyed.
Why we don't know what's in it.
We don't want to know, we don'tneed to know.
That's the whole point.
If painstaking measures weremade to seal it, leave it alone.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
For crying out loud.
I remember moving and youhaving to label boxes.
Items may be enchanted.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Yes.
Handle with caution yeah,handle with care.
Items may be enchanted.
Yeah, I mean, that is yeah.
Books of shadows that is, yeah,um, books of shadows.
People's personal books eitherbecome the property of the
church itself, and usually theresiding priest and priestess
(09:56):
take what is necessary from itright and the rest is again
destroyed or it's kept, kept,yeah, in archive for posterity.
But that's it.
Nobody's being handed that bookand, in many cases, good luck
reading it.
They don't even make sense.
(10:17):
They're gobbledygook, exceptfor the person who wrote it,
right.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Because I mean I'm sure you look through mine you
got half a recipe on one andthen a half a recipe on another
page for chicken salad.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I know one person who does her book completely in
cipher.
Good luck.
Have fun with that, yeah, yeah,it's like we're not going to.
This is not the Zodiac killerhere.
We're not going to sit here andtry to decode None.
I mean, come on.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I know many.
I know many of traditionalistswho still write their books in
Theban.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Mm-hmm.
Yes, but at the end of the day,one of the things we
acknowledge is that, again, theHoly Grail is not in those pages
.
Mm-mm, holy grail is not inthose pages.
We could spend 25 or minutes anhour decoding a page in theban
(11:13):
just to go oh it's the witch'sread exactly the charge of the
goddess it's common knowledgeNow crystals, potions, herbs,
incenses, brews, things thatthat person may have made or
used regularly, yeah, they getgifted.
(11:37):
Yeah, they get gifted to otherpeople that again, those that
they knew.
Other people, that again, thosethat they knew usually.
I remember, when lord merlinpassed away from the ravenwood
tradition, they, they didsomething really cool.
I give them a lot of credit theway ravenwood handled this.
So there was a large, massiveevent when he passed away and
(12:03):
they set up a space on theproperty because this was a,
this was a his um requiem was aweekend event.
It was a big to do.
Lots of people came from allover.
So they set up a space wherethey basically said if you walk
up the hill and you go into themain building, there is a room
(12:29):
where we have a bunch of lordmerlin's possessions, items that
were, in whatever way,connected to his practice.
These you are welcome to takewhat you like, feel free.
And it was.
It was very nice, it wasbeautiful, it wasn't.
(12:51):
It was a little awkward in thesense that some of us who didn't
know him personally, rightwhere we were.
There was hesitation, obviouslyso many, like I remember, and it
was funny because Lord Merlinwas gay.
I remember looking at a lot ofthese items and things and going
(13:13):
this isn't, these aren't mineto take.
Right, there's something Ididn't have that needed
connection to him in life.
But I do remember there was asort of a sash or like a ribbon.
It was the rainbow flag and Iwent that one Because it was
(13:35):
just a ribbon.
There was nothing tremendouslyspecial about it.
He may have at some point maybeworn it around his neck during
a ritual of some sort, maybe fora pride-based event, maybe for
something in june, I don't know.
But that I was like, yes, thisis something I would like to
(13:55):
have to remember him by, and Itook it and that's it, and it it
sits now with my magical fair,you know, and it's got a little.
I just took a little Sharpieand wrote Merlin.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
But I'm going to say this I'm going to try not to be
nice but, at no point did anyoneever go onto eBay and post this
going.
Hey, Lord Merlin passed awayhere.
Yeah, Would you like his loofah?
Speaker 3 (14:20):
No, it was.
It was freely given away.
Anyone could take whatever theylike.
Now I mean again, these werevery selected items.
Why?
Because someone like LordMerlin, who was a holy moly.
He was a third degree for 40some odd years.
I think, he had a massive amountof things collected and he had
(14:45):
a wardrobe.
His tradition is a little showyright, and they like a little
bit of flair for drama inside oftheir rituals.
He had a lot of different typesof robes and garments and that
was the main thing that wasbeing offered up because he
might have worn some of themonce right or maybe only once
(15:09):
every so often.
Easy peasy, but no one wassitting there holding an auction
, right going.
You know, here is the holyspatula, you know do I have ten
dollars, ten dollars fifteendollars.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Come on no with that said now let's flip the script
here.
How many witches do you knowthat is going to actually cast
that spell on the spatula or onthe front?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
but that's the thing.
I think a lot of these peoplethat are doing this that are out
there, you know, with these,this is an enchanted item, a
magical item, a blessed item.
There is a problem with thisbecause, no, none of that has
actually taken place.
This is just an item that hasbeen used by.
So at that point, are webasically deifying that person?
(16:00):
To some extent, I think we are.
Is this, like you know, thebuddha phenomenon, the dalai
lama, right, it's been blessedby or it's been used by.
So we're basically saying thatthe mere touch of this person
bless this item and it has nowmade it powerful well, or I'm,
I'm, or I'm actually.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
I'm actually going a little bit farther than that,
when you think about our actualblessing ritual.
Can you see me taking myfreaking frying pan out there to
do the actual blessing Good?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
gravy.
Just to get my frying pan to dobetter, good gravy.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
I don't, yeah, no, no .
Do you see what I'm saying?
This?
Speaker 3 (16:35):
is not happening.
I do.
I do Because typically, when webless something, we are doing
it in ritual space for ritual,for ritual.
Yes, there are.
There are two objects sittingon your desk right now.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give awaythe least that I can here, right
, because they came out of lastnight's ritual.
(16:56):
They were blessed yes but it wasfor a specific working.
If anyone were to find those 20years from now and you and I
are long gone, no one is goingto say, oh, these are blessed.
How would they know that is?
(17:17):
And never would anyone see thatand think, oh, those are
special, they're so mundane,it's hilarious.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Now there is a fear that man Lord man brought up
about this behavior.
All right, and the fear is isthat, yes, someone is going to
get a hold of a book of shadowsor something.
We have half written somethingdown and somebody is going to
wind up with a holy chickensalad yes, it happens, it's been
happening.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
So all of the tradition heads right, be it
gardner, be it crowley, be itthe frosts right, this has
happened.
Yes, there has been partialwritings or something that was
not crowley especially goodgrief.
(18:12):
You know something?
And and still people areobsessing over it, obsessed with
it, trying to decode it, tryingto understand it.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
It might be absolutely nothing because I
don't know how many times I havesat down and started to write
something to my book of shadows,to get about halfway through
and go.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
This isn't going exactly where I thought it was
yeah, or you got busy doingsomething else and you forgot to
go back to it well, I mean,it's just like the podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
so conversations, we'll, we'll be sitting here
doing, we'll be trying, we'lllook at each other going.
This ain't working.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
It's like anything, it happens and it's a very but
it's a strange to me.
It's a strange phenomenon thatwe go acknowledge and accept
that the children of the craftare all children of the craft.
(19:05):
What makes one of us, or aselect number of us, more
powerful?
Speaker 4 (19:17):
special?
I don't.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
It's very weird because, again, mason, where I
am, I don't.
It's very weird.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Because, again, mason , where I am, I don't feel
myself as special as and I don'tmean this mean, but as
sometimes I get out in publicwhen I'm in the pagan community,
do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Sure, but I look at it this way too.
Something of yours, it'simportant to me because it's a
connection that I can make backto you.
But I know you, yeah, we have arelationship.
I cannot imagine looking atsomeone and saying this is lord
(20:00):
knight's q-tip god, I hope notright I mean, I'm coming up with
the most ridiculous thing, butyou are right but then how?
okay, so if this person has noconnection, no knowledge of you
or the bare minimum, all right,number one, how are they going
to tap into that?
(20:21):
Number two what are they goingto do with it?
What can you possibly?
So back to the holy spatula.
Even if you could, what are yougoing to achieve with it?
A better omelet flip?
It's a spatula.
I can.
I cannot conceive, and I am akitchen witch and I can't think
(20:43):
of a single thing that I woulddo with a spatula.
Actually, I can when my dog isbeing a poo in the kitchen, and
I mean this when, when one ofthe dogs is up my ass while I'm
trying to cook, the spatula isusually what I shoo them with.
You, you know and I kind of waveit around until they move out
(21:05):
of the room kind of like grandmawith the wooden spoon yes and
but, and that's what was funny.
That was going to be my nextpoint.
I would rather have a woodenspoon than a spatula spatula any
day of the week.
That spoon has seen some shit.
That spoon has a story.
That spoon it's a and it's avery and I don't know.
(21:29):
Part of it's because it's wood,part of it is because it's a
porous material right.
Part of it is because it has amore intentioned use long term
than just something that flipssomething and plus it also used
to be alive at some point that'strue too.
Yes, I mean so I don't get andwe have seen this, we've seen
(21:52):
this time and time again whereit's almost like you can do it
right now.
Go to ebay now.
Some of the auction sites Ithink ebay was one of them at
some point they tried to put acurb to.
They tried to stop some of this.
They tried to get it off of theselling of charms and the
selling of yeah, magical objects.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
They tried to do this on eBay, but then they realized
the bulk of their sales iscraft people.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
No, I don't think that's necessarily true.
There's a lot that goes on oneBay that's outside of craft for
sure.
Or was that etsy, I'm thinkingoh, it might be etsy, but etsy,
etsy did it too, they put a theyput a like you can't sell and
then they reversed it yeah, likethere's a there's because there
are.
There are people on etsy thatwill literally sell a intention.
(22:38):
Yes, pay me ten dollars andI'll light this candle for you.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Yes, and that to me, is going along the same what
this.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
It's wild.
It's wild, and so I'm veryhesitant on a lot of these.
I do think a lot of it's greedyyeah.
I think it is taking advantageof people who are potentially at
their lowest or at a vulnerableplace yes.
But to me, no one who is amember of craft, a person
(23:18):
connected with a group, initiateor not, would never do this,
never.
They would give it to you, yes,before they sold it, yes, and
it would be that simple.
Well, oh, what is that?
Oh well, that was some oflordman's.
You know, that was some of hiskitchen.
Right?
Can I have one?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
sure, pick what you want one less thing I got to do
something with yeah, but they'renot going to sell it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's not going to be.
No, absolutely not.
And if they do take money forit, it's a donation that goes
back to the church or it's goingto be a yard sale or something
where it's nothing reallysubstantial.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Exactly.
But I mean, I have seen it'sunbelievable whole lots of
people's mundane lives beingthrown up there like it is
somehow magical in nature.
And then what are people tryingto do?
Extract it.
This is where I also go.
Hollywood has done us adisservice.
Yeah, you know, I mean we'renot it's we're not collectors
(24:20):
items not really.
No, we're not.
We're also traditionalists,especially, there is a.
There is a rule I don't know ifwe've talked about the.
Talked about this on thepodcast before Upon our death,
the temple comes in and takeseverything.
Yes, we seize it.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I mean, that's the and that's part of why.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Why we're getting ahead of two things happening.
One, the family accidentallygiving something away that they
shouldn't.
That they shouldn't or selling.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
it shouldn't or selling it, and but the other is
making certain that it doesn'tbecome abused or or
misappropriated.
Yeah, I mean because, as far asI know, we don't have any of
these things like, like and notknocking catholics, but like.
We don't have the saint fingerwhat do you?
(25:11):
Mean, well, we don't have these.
I've never seen these artifacts.
We don't have what saintchristopher's finger or the
shroud of tauren or we don'thave.
I've never seen these thingsthat's what's ironic, right?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
yeah, your relics we don't have.
We don't have relics.
No, now that's reallyinteresting because our relics,
if we want to get technicalright, they're in museums.
Yes, there are archaeologicalfinds and they're in museums
somewhere.
Every once in a while, a storycomes out of europe it's always
(25:46):
the uk.
It gets me so mad, right,there's always viking horde of
you know found in your, and I'mlike damn it, I just want one
coin, one coin?
I don't even want one coin, Ijust want to find it, look at it
and drool, yeah, yeah exactly,and it's just those are cool,
that those would be relics, butyes, they end up going to
(26:08):
museums.
We don't, you're right, we havenothing like that now I am sure
.
I'm sure thelemites they do.
Yeah, there are possessions ofcrowleys that I could just about
guarantee that somebody hassomewhere.
(26:29):
They have been carefullyarchived and capped and, yes,
the thelamites have relics umthe gardenarians from gardener
and somebody's got a relic yes,absolutely somewhere, but it's
not being sold, it's not beingauctioned, it is being carefully
(26:49):
kept, preserved and ultimately,it becomes part of the
religious heritage whereby, I'mcertain, any practitioner.
May I see it?
Yes, can you touch it?
No, can you look at it?
Sure, yeah, there are museums ofwitchcraft, for instance.
(27:14):
I mean, we know that they existin a few places throughout the
world.
Things like that do exist there, yes, but good grief, I mean,
when I go, yeah, no, I don'twant to find out that some you
know tea that I was brewing tohelp with a period cramp is now
(27:34):
suddenly being sold as some assome cure, you know, for some
ridiculous thing.
No, stop it, stop it, stop itnow.
That being said, within atradition, again, yes, there are
things we have, we still have.
This is very funny.
Well, it's cute.
More than anything, we stillhave what I consider to be
(27:59):
whether it is or is not, I don'tknow the last batch of incense
Lord Min made.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Oh God yes.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Lord Min has been gone a while.
Okay, he made his own incenseand we have his sauer blend that
he made for many, many, manysounds ago.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Um, I, think it's been over 10 years it's been
longer than that.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
It's been longer than that.
It's been closer to 15.
Oh crap, he made such anabundance of this right he
brought it to us.
He made such an abundance ofthis right he brought it to us
for that night.
I mean it was almost laughable.
Right, it was one ritual.
He brought us like a pound ofincense in powdered form.
I mean it's incredible.
So we have it and we use it.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
We continue to use it .
Speaker 3 (28:49):
We continue to use it and, interestingly enough, I
have given some of it away.
I have.
Every now and then I will meetan elder who's like oh yes, I
knew, lord Mint, would you like?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
some of his incense.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, but there's no, it's just incense.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
It's nothing, no, no Matter of fact, I think we even
have the recipe, probably.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Probably, but it's just nice that it's a connection
to him.
So please don't, just justdon't.
We don't want to be seen thatway.
Um, if anything, think of itlike your your grandmother's
right spatula, if you're luckyenough to have it.
Your grandmother's weddingdress, whatever, your
grandmother's right spatula, ifyou're lucky enough to have it
your grandmother's wedding dress.
Whatever?
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Your grandmother's wedding ring.
These are things that familieshold on to.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
But honestly, though, some people I mean look, my
family can cook.
If I could have mygrandmother's spatula, I'd be
quite happy with that.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
But I understand that that's your connection to your
grandmother.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
But that's what I'm saying, that's how we want to be
viewed.
I don't.
But I'm not going to see it asa spiritual item or something
sacred or hell.
I wouldn't even cook with itanymore, I would just let it
hang out in the kitchen I can'tsay nothing.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
I have measuring spoons over there that was that
I never use there you go yep, soyep.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
That's the story of the holy spatula.
Let's have some holy coffee,shall we Okay, Thanks for
listening.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Join us next week for another episode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
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Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
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Speaker 2 (30:34):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of ourdays.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
(30:58):
our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
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