November 26, 2025 • 16 mins
Traditions don’t just happen; they accumulate meaning across time. Our conversation centers on the why. When someone suggests a change—like swapping a time‑honored incense blend—we ask for purpose, not permission. If the new choice better expresses the symbol or season, it belongs. If there’s no clear reason, it’s just noise. That lens helps us separate flexible edges from non‑negotiable cores. Initiations and death rites sit in a different category altogether: they carry shared mysteries and must remain consistent to preserve continuity and communal trust.
We also talk about polarity, the mirrored dualities many rites enact, and how each repeated gesture reminds us of the beliefs beneath it. Knowing the why builds conviction without turning brittle; it tempers strength with adaptability. Change is inevitable—history shows every major tradition evolves—but drift is optional when communities steward their practices with clarity. If future generations revisit these rites, we want them to find a steady core and thoughtful updates at the edges, not a hollow shell. Listen for a practical framework to evaluate change, keep your center, and evolve with integrity. If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to help others find us.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Welcome to Peggy and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
What would you call a tradition?
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
Um well, I mean, t tradition to me is um you know
it's something that you do allthe time.
It is uh it's handed down, youknow.
SPEAKER_03 (00:43):
I mean well, I we well you said it that way, so
what?
Daily, monthly, yearly.
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
Um well, I mean, you know, it could be any of those.
I think I think more I thinkmore along the lines of oh Lord,
well, look at it a couple ofdifferent ways.
One is like a tradition, it'ssomething that you do every
year.
So think Thanksgiving,Christmas, Easter, typical
(01:11):
things that you do around thosetimes.
SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
I I guess I can see where there could be some
traditions of things you knowyou do every morning.
SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
I I don't know if it would be more routine, but Well,
I think I think if it's daily,then yeah, it's more of a
routine.
Alright.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
What about monthly?
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Monthly, yeah, I could kind of see that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Well, I mean, again, in in our tradition, we meet
once a month at the full moon,so you know, that's our
traditional time to meet andworship and right.
Yeah, so I think so there is alittle bit uh there is something
a little bit about timing there.
Traditions are something sort ofspread out.
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
More than something you would do every day.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Again, I think daily is more of a routine than a
tradition type thing.
SPEAKER_03 (02:08):
All right.
Um, what about changingtraditions?
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
Well I mean again, again, example here, you know,
where you you read the nightbefore Christmas every year.
I mean, at what point do youquit watching or reading it and
start listening to an audiobookof it or uh or a you know a play
or a or a TV show or a video?
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Oh that I you know, that I don't know.
I think that depends on um thethe family or the group, you
know, that's that's doing that.
Maybe it's you and your friendsget together and read the story.
Maybe I'll decide, okay, well,we can't really do this this
time, so we're just gonna agreeto listen to the book, you know,
(03:00):
or the poem or whatever.
That's a tough question.
SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
I mean, I mean, and how much does a tradition change
to where it's no longer theoriginal tradition to begin
with?
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
Well, I think as long as as long as the core
belief is there, then uh see, Idon't know if I can really say
that or not.
SPEAKER_03 (03:25):
Because again, I because cause you know my next
because you know my nextquestion is how do you how do we
identify that core?
SPEAKER_02 (03:31):
Right.
The core belief is is what'sthere, it's what we've founded
everything on, it's what we'vebased everything on.
And if you go and change that,then you've changed everything,
in my opinion.
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
You know, but at what point is that?
I mean, again, like I said, weare we we believe in our
tradition that it takes a witchto make a witch, so we believe
in initiation.
When we don't frown uponself-initiation or whatever, we
just it's there, whatever.
Right.
But when I pass away and someonetakes my place, if that priest
(04:09):
goes, Oh, well, you know, Idon't think this is as important
as Knight thought it was, sowe're not gonna worry about this
anymore.
Is that changing our course?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
Is that Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Um and again, I I may be alittle on the old-fashioned side
of things.
I don't um I don't think you canchange that part of what we do.
SPEAKER_03 (04:33):
But yeah, you wouldn't have a problem if
somebody goes, oh, here I gotthis different incense for this
Sabbath.
I know we'd typically use this.
Can we try this?
You probably wouldn't thinktwice about that, would you?
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
No.
No, not at all.
SPEAKER_03 (04:48):
So what what where's the difference?
I mean, again, it wetraditionally use, okay, for for
the sake of argument, okay,let's say at a particular grand,
pick one, we always usefrankincense myrrh and
sandalwood.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (05:04):
And then somebody comes up one day and goes, hey,
let's try this blend instead.
Well, I mean I know you I knowyou've been coming here and
you've for 20-something years,and we've done this for
20-something years, but I wantto do something different.
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
If we if we have a reason for using those herbs as
part of that incense, then Ithink they're gonna have to make
an argument about it and giveme, you know, say I'm the elder,
they would have to give me areason to make that change.
SPEAKER_03 (05:37):
So as long as there's a why, right?
If I'm saying that right, if youso you believe as long as
there's a why behind it, weshould keep it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Well, yes and no.
I think if we can't explain thewhy, then we need to figure out
we need to figure that out.
Except for what?
SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Or or except for interpretation.
SPEAKER_02 (06:02):
Right.
Yeah, if it's that way, thenyeah, we need to make we need to
make some changes, we need to uhmake some considerations and
figure out the why.
But now if somebody, say likewith the incense, if somebody
comes up and says, Hey, I wantto try this particular blend of
incense, tell me why.
(06:24):
And if it fits, then hey, okay,well, now we've got another
option for incense for theSabbath.
You following me?
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
I I'm with you.
I know I'm with you.
And I think that's I mean,because again, because I'd also
have to ask the question, youknow, like there are certain
rituals that we do, you know,like um weddings and stuff like
that, but a lot of people wanttheir weddings more personalized
now versus a more traditionalway of doing it.
(06:55):
So again, sitting there andwrite going through the trouble
of writing out the traditionalwedding thing is not necessarily
good.
You know what I mean?
Because again, somebody's gonnacome along and go, Well, you
know, it is my wedding, so aremy hand found are you are you
with me?
Yeah.
Versus somebody coming along andchanging our death rights.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
All right, well I mean again, these are still
significant things, but I thinkas far as like the death rights
go, that to me, that is aspecific thing that we do.
Right.
If we are going to change anypart of that, then I think it
(07:39):
needs to be a decision among themembers.
SPEAKER_03 (07:44):
Right.
Well, see, the because for likean example, our initiations, we
all get it's the exact sameritual for all of us.
It does not suddenly just changebecause there's somebody there.
Right.
I mean, certain aspects mightchange, but not the ritual
itself.
Right.
You ready?
(08:05):
I mean, you with me becausethere's sometimes men do things
if it's a woman initiationversus a male in it.
Again, that's all polarities andstuff like that.
Right.
Other than those things, yes,everybody gets the same
initiation.
Right.
And it's something we will allsit there and go, no, no, this
can never change or anythingbecause it brings on this
(08:27):
experience that we cannotexplain.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (08:31):
All right, it reveals a mystery that you will
never be able to tell anyone ordescribe whatsoever.
And we would all agree to that.
But again, I'm back to thewedding, though, we're like, oh,
what's the harm?
I mean, and how much of thatneeds to be in there?
Do we still need to do O's?
(08:52):
Do we not?
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
Is it just Well, I think as far as that goes, we
can, and we have every right todo this, we can sit back and
say, all right, there are youwant this wedding, these are the
elements that we do.
SPEAKER_03 (09:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
The rest of it we can customize to you.
But these elements will beincluded, and I think I think
that is that's more of thetraditional part.
But then, you know, but then wecan also we could just do the
opposite and we could say, okay,well, we can just customize this
(09:31):
whole thing for you, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
You know, I just think it's funny how certain
rituals we would automaticallygo, no, you can't, but other
rituals were kind of a littlebit more, eh, whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
When it does seem like it, we would want it to be
the same, but well, again, Iwant to go you can customize the
majority of it if you want to,but then you can literally say,
Well, these are the elementsthat we do as a tradition.
So if you want this done andyou're part of our tradition,
this is this is the way it'sgonna be.
SPEAKER_03 (10:05):
Right.
Well, let's get back to thisconcept why.
All right, because it I mean itis quite important to us to
understand why we do this stuffthe way we do it and not just
and to never do it just becausewe were told so.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:20):
That this is the big concept actually in craft and
other people I know.
We have to know why.
If we don't have that why, wecan we we oftentimes do consider
it frivolous or not really worthdebating or whatever.
And we can use it as a throwawaything.
Do you think it's harder?
(10:40):
When you know why, do you thinkit's harder to give up those
beliefs?
Unlike someone who doesn'tunderstand it, it's easy for
them to change their beliefs ata drop of a hat.
SPEAKER_02 (10:50):
I I think that plays an important part of it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:53):
I mean, because I'm saying I don't yeah, I don't
know if I said that enough tonot confuse people.
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
Well, the why is it's the reason for the
particular belief or theparticular practice.
I mean, it's the definition ofthat practice.
Right.
And once you've finded itsolidifies it, and and that's
where for people who know thewhys, it's not that they're not
(11:20):
accepting to change, but theyhave they have a firmer
foundation in what they believe.
SPEAKER_03 (11:27):
Well, every time you do this, regardless of what it
is, what every time you do thisspecific task or action, it
reminds you of why you're doingit.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
They're continuously always re-linked to each other,
so they're always reinforced tothat this is a belief.
I'm doing this, you know, I holdmy athem up this way because of
XYZ.
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (11:54):
Because I've been trained to do that, that that
doing that action alwaysreinforces the why behind it,
which I think reinforces thebelief in that too.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Well, yeah.
I mean, that's that's a betterexplanation of of what I said,
you know, that it solidifiesthat right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:12):
I mean, it I was just gonna say it just seems
like a discycle that feeds in onitself over and over again.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Well, it does.
And, you know, for those peoplewho don't have that definition,
they don't it's easier to justchange things up on a whim
because nothing nothing's turnedinto concrete for them, you know
what I mean?
Right.
And it's not it's not always abad thing, but uh it's I rather
(12:38):
enjoy having that uh having thatsolid foundation.
SPEAKER_03 (12:43):
Well, I I think you need to have some pillars like
this in a tradition to hold ittogether.
If if you don't, it moves toofar off its foundations.
Absolutely.
It moves too far away, it startsto move too far away from that
core belief of here's what webelieve.
You know, that the universe isdivided up in duality and all
(13:04):
this other stuff, and we we haveto mimic that too.
And for a simple reason, youknow, of some of the stuff that
we do that not revealingmysteries.
SPEAKER_02 (13:15):
We have to be careful.
SPEAKER_03 (13:17):
Gotta be careful, you know.
But uh, but again, because it isa belief and it is something
there, when we look at thesethings in ritual, when we're
doing them in ritual, itreinforces that these polarities
exist around us and in us.
So it's very important to knowthe why of why you believe what
(13:41):
the world you do believe in.
Because it gives you a whole lotmore grounded foundation to
stand upon.
But again, like you said, it'skind of like a sword that's been
hardened but not tempered yet.
While it might be strong and allthis, but it's very brittle and
easy to shatter, and it's got tohave a little bit of flexibility
there.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
So you got to tamper it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:03):
I I love that analogy.
It it speaks to the heart ofthis conversation.
So we have to be adaptable tosome extent.
Right.
Um, and so I think traditionscan change, they can they can be
altered, you know, to fit theneeds.
SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
I don't think any religion nowadays is exactly
what it was in the beginning.
Oh, no.
Christianity's changed over theyears, Buddha uh Buddhism's
changed over the years.
No, yeah.
I I'm sure it has.
I mean, for as long as some ofthese have been around, you
know, I'm sure Judaism is notthe exact same as what they used
to practice in the old days.
(14:44):
So we know these change becausewe can pretty much see it
through timelines and again newum new branches of traditions
opening up because people willreject certain things and keep
other ideas.
So it makes me wonder, you know,hey, if I was able to come back
(15:05):
in a hundred years and remembereverything I know now, um Will I
be sitting there looking, youknow, standing in front of, you
know, Life Templar and Seminaryone day going, what the hell did
y'all do?
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
What the what in the hell is this?
What the hell is this?
This is not what I told you.
I mean, it's a it's apossibility.
We we know that I mean historyhas shown us that yes, things
change and sometimes drasticallyover the years, and but I think
(15:40):
to some extent they still hold alot, if not all, of the same
core beliefs.
It's just the way they do itnow, is different.
SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
All right.
Let's go get some coffee.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pegan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary.
Please visit us at LifeTempelseminary.org for more
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SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya steel blazing fires.
And so it is the end of our daysto walk with me till morning
(16:34):
breaks.
And so it is the end of our daysto walk with me till morning
break.
Welcome to Peggy and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
What would you call a tradition?
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
Um well, I mean, t tradition to me is um you know
it's something that you do allthe time.
It is uh it's handed down, youknow.
SPEAKER_03 (00:43):
I mean well, I we well you said it that way, so
what?
Daily, monthly, yearly.
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
Um well, I mean, you know, it could be any of those.
I think I think more I thinkmore along the lines of oh Lord,
well, look at it a couple ofdifferent ways.
One is like a tradition, it'ssomething that you do every
year.
So think Thanksgiving,Christmas, Easter, typical
(01:11):
things that you do around thosetimes.
SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
I I guess I can see where there could be some
traditions of things you knowyou do every morning.
SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
I I don't know if it would be more routine, but Well,
I think I think if it's daily,then yeah, it's more of a
routine.
Alright.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
What about monthly?
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Monthly, yeah, I could kind of see that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Well, I mean, again, in in our tradition, we meet
once a month at the full moon,so you know, that's our
traditional time to meet andworship and right.
Yeah, so I think so there is alittle bit uh there is something
a little bit about timing there.
Traditions are something sort ofspread out.
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
More than something you would do every day.
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Again, I think daily is more of a routine than a
tradition type thing.
SPEAKER_03 (02:08):
All right.
Um, what about changingtraditions?
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
Well I mean again, again, example here, you know,
where you you read the nightbefore Christmas every year.
I mean, at what point do youquit watching or reading it and
start listening to an audiobookof it or uh or a you know a play
or a or a TV show or a video?
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Oh that I you know, that I don't know.
I think that depends on um thethe family or the group, you
know, that's that's doing that.
Maybe it's you and your friendsget together and read the story.
Maybe I'll decide, okay, well,we can't really do this this
time, so we're just gonna agreeto listen to the book, you know,
(03:00):
or the poem or whatever.
That's a tough question.
SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
I mean, I mean, and how much does a tradition change
to where it's no longer theoriginal tradition to begin
with?
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
Well, I think as long as as long as the core
belief is there, then uh see, Idon't know if I can really say
that or not.
SPEAKER_03 (03:25):
Because again, I because cause you know my next
because you know my nextquestion is how do you how do we
identify that core?
SPEAKER_02 (03:31):
Right.
The core belief is is what'sthere, it's what we've founded
everything on, it's what we'vebased everything on.
And if you go and change that,then you've changed everything,
in my opinion.
SPEAKER_03 (03:46):
You know, but at what point is that?
I mean, again, like I said, weare we we believe in our
tradition that it takes a witchto make a witch, so we believe
in initiation.
When we don't frown uponself-initiation or whatever, we
just it's there, whatever.
Right.
But when I pass away and someonetakes my place, if that priest
(04:09):
goes, Oh, well, you know, Idon't think this is as important
as Knight thought it was, sowe're not gonna worry about this
anymore.
Is that changing our course?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
Is that Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Um and again, I I may be alittle on the old-fashioned side
of things.
I don't um I don't think you canchange that part of what we do.
SPEAKER_03 (04:33):
But yeah, you wouldn't have a problem if
somebody goes, oh, here I gotthis different incense for this
Sabbath.
I know we'd typically use this.
Can we try this?
You probably wouldn't thinktwice about that, would you?
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
No.
No, not at all.
SPEAKER_03 (04:48):
So what what where's the difference?
I mean, again, it wetraditionally use, okay, for for
the sake of argument, okay,let's say at a particular grand,
pick one, we always usefrankincense myrrh and
sandalwood.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (05:04):
And then somebody comes up one day and goes, hey,
let's try this blend instead.
Well, I mean I know you I knowyou've been coming here and
you've for 20-something years,and we've done this for
20-something years, but I wantto do something different.
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
If we if we have a reason for using those herbs as
part of that incense, then Ithink they're gonna have to make
an argument about it and giveme, you know, say I'm the elder,
they would have to give me areason to make that change.
SPEAKER_03 (05:37):
So as long as there's a why, right?
If I'm saying that right, if youso you believe as long as
there's a why behind it, weshould keep it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Well, yes and no.
I think if we can't explain thewhy, then we need to figure out
we need to figure that out.
Except for what?
SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Or or except for interpretation.
SPEAKER_02 (06:02):
Right.
Yeah, if it's that way, thenyeah, we need to make we need to
make some changes, we need to uhmake some considerations and
figure out the why.
But now if somebody, say likewith the incense, if somebody
comes up and says, Hey, I wantto try this particular blend of
incense, tell me why.
(06:24):
And if it fits, then hey, okay,well, now we've got another
option for incense for theSabbath.
You following me?
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
I I'm with you.
I know I'm with you.
And I think that's I mean,because again, because I'd also
have to ask the question, youknow, like there are certain
rituals that we do, you know,like um weddings and stuff like
that, but a lot of people wanttheir weddings more personalized
now versus a more traditionalway of doing it.
(06:55):
So again, sitting there andwrite going through the trouble
of writing out the traditionalwedding thing is not necessarily
good.
You know what I mean?
Because again, somebody's gonnacome along and go, Well, you
know, it is my wedding, so aremy hand found are you are you
with me?
Yeah.
Versus somebody coming along andchanging our death rights.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
All right, well I mean again, these are still
significant things, but I thinkas far as like the death rights
go, that to me, that is aspecific thing that we do.
Right.
If we are going to change anypart of that, then I think it
(07:39):
needs to be a decision among themembers.
SPEAKER_03 (07:44):
Right.
Well, see, the because for likean example, our initiations, we
all get it's the exact sameritual for all of us.
It does not suddenly just changebecause there's somebody there.
Right.
I mean, certain aspects mightchange, but not the ritual
itself.
Right.
You ready?
(08:05):
I mean, you with me becausethere's sometimes men do things
if it's a woman initiationversus a male in it.
Again, that's all polarities andstuff like that.
Right.
Other than those things, yes,everybody gets the same
initiation.
Right.
And it's something we will allsit there and go, no, no, this
can never change or anythingbecause it brings on this
(08:27):
experience that we cannotexplain.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (08:31):
All right, it reveals a mystery that you will
never be able to tell anyone ordescribe whatsoever.
And we would all agree to that.
But again, I'm back to thewedding, though, we're like, oh,
what's the harm?
I mean, and how much of thatneeds to be in there?
Do we still need to do O's?
(08:52):
Do we not?
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
Is it just Well, I think as far as that goes, we
can, and we have every right todo this, we can sit back and
say, all right, there are youwant this wedding, these are the
elements that we do.
SPEAKER_03 (09:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
The rest of it we can customize to you.
But these elements will beincluded, and I think I think
that is that's more of thetraditional part.
But then, you know, but then wecan also we could just do the
opposite and we could say, okay,well, we can just customize this
(09:31):
whole thing for you, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
You know, I just think it's funny how certain
rituals we would automaticallygo, no, you can't, but other
rituals were kind of a littlebit more, eh, whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
When it does seem like it, we would want it to be
the same, but well, again, Iwant to go you can customize the
majority of it if you want to,but then you can literally say,
Well, these are the elementsthat we do as a tradition.
So if you want this done andyou're part of our tradition,
this is this is the way it'sgonna be.
SPEAKER_03 (10:05):
Right.
Well, let's get back to thisconcept why.
All right, because it I mean itis quite important to us to
understand why we do this stuffthe way we do it and not just
and to never do it just becausewe were told so.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (10:20):
That this is the big concept actually in craft and
other people I know.
We have to know why.
If we don't have that why, wecan we we oftentimes do consider
it frivolous or not really worthdebating or whatever.
And we can use it as a throwawaything.
Do you think it's harder?
(10:40):
When you know why, do you thinkit's harder to give up those
beliefs?
Unlike someone who doesn'tunderstand it, it's easy for
them to change their beliefs ata drop of a hat.
SPEAKER_02 (10:50):
I I think that plays an important part of it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:53):
I mean, because I'm saying I don't yeah, I don't
know if I said that enough tonot confuse people.
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
Well, the why is it's the reason for the
particular belief or theparticular practice.
I mean, it's the definition ofthat practice.
Right.
And once you've finded itsolidifies it, and and that's
where for people who know thewhys, it's not that they're not
(11:20):
accepting to change, but theyhave they have a firmer
foundation in what they believe.
SPEAKER_03 (11:27):
Well, every time you do this, regardless of what it
is, what every time you do thisspecific task or action, it
reminds you of why you're doingit.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
They're continuously always re-linked to each other,
so they're always reinforced tothat this is a belief.
I'm doing this, you know, I holdmy athem up this way because of
XYZ.
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (11:54):
Because I've been trained to do that, that that
doing that action alwaysreinforces the why behind it,
which I think reinforces thebelief in that too.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Well, yeah.
I mean, that's that's a betterexplanation of of what I said,
you know, that it solidifiesthat right.
SPEAKER_03 (12:12):
I mean, it I was just gonna say it just seems
like a discycle that feeds in onitself over and over again.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Well, it does.
And, you know, for those peoplewho don't have that definition,
they don't it's easier to justchange things up on a whim
because nothing nothing's turnedinto concrete for them, you know
what I mean?
Right.
And it's not it's not always abad thing, but uh it's I rather
(12:38):
enjoy having that uh having thatsolid foundation.
SPEAKER_03 (12:43):
Well, I I think you need to have some pillars like
this in a tradition to hold ittogether.
If if you don't, it moves toofar off its foundations.
Absolutely.
It moves too far away, it startsto move too far away from that
core belief of here's what webelieve.
You know, that the universe isdivided up in duality and all
(13:04):
this other stuff, and we we haveto mimic that too.
And for a simple reason, youknow, of some of the stuff that
we do that not revealingmysteries.
SPEAKER_02 (13:15):
We have to be careful.
SPEAKER_03 (13:17):
Gotta be careful, you know.
But uh, but again, because it isa belief and it is something
there, when we look at thesethings in ritual, when we're
doing them in ritual, itreinforces that these polarities
exist around us and in us.
So it's very important to knowthe why of why you believe what
(13:41):
the world you do believe in.
Because it gives you a whole lotmore grounded foundation to
stand upon.
But again, like you said, it'skind of like a sword that's been
hardened but not tempered yet.
While it might be strong and allthis, but it's very brittle and
easy to shatter, and it's got tohave a little bit of flexibility
there.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (14:01):
So you got to tamper it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:03):
I I love that analogy.
It it speaks to the heart ofthis conversation.
So we have to be adaptable tosome extent.
Right.
Um, and so I think traditionscan change, they can they can be
altered, you know, to fit theneeds.
SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
I don't think any religion nowadays is exactly
what it was in the beginning.
Oh, no.
Christianity's changed over theyears, Buddha uh Buddhism's
changed over the years.
No, yeah.
I I'm sure it has.
I mean, for as long as some ofthese have been around, you
know, I'm sure Judaism is notthe exact same as what they used
to practice in the old days.
(14:44):
So we know these change becausewe can pretty much see it
through timelines and again newum new branches of traditions
opening up because people willreject certain things and keep
other ideas.
So it makes me wonder, you know,hey, if I was able to come back
(15:05):
in a hundred years and remembereverything I know now, um Will I
be sitting there looking, youknow, standing in front of, you
know, Life Templar and Seminaryone day going, what the hell did
y'all do?
SPEAKER_02 (15:17):
What the what in the hell is this?
What the hell is this?
This is not what I told you.
I mean, it's a it's apossibility.
We we know that I mean historyhas shown us that yes, things
change and sometimes drasticallyover the years, and but I think
(15:40):
to some extent they still hold alot, if not all, of the same
core beliefs.
It's just the way they do itnow, is different.
SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
All right.
Let's go get some coffee.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pegan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary.
Please visit us at LifeTempelseminary.org for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
Discord, Twitter, YouTube, andReddit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya steel blazing fires.
And so it is the end of our daysto walk with me till morning
(16:34):
breaks.
And so it is the end of our daysto walk with me till morning
break.
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