July 2, 2025 • 38 mins
The commercialization of magic raises profound questions about authenticity, responsibility, and the true nature of spell work.
Neri, a first degree at Life Temple and Seminary, joins us for a candid exploration of the troubling ethics behind online spell markets. Without the crucial counseling component that traditionally accompanies magical assistance, online spell purchases often miss the root causes entirely; when someone requests money magic, they might actually need help finding stable employment or developing better financial habits—nuances lost in digital transactions. These practices prey on magical naivety while undermining authentic traditions through disclaimers stating spells are "for entertainment purposes only."
Most importantly, we explore how true magical ability comes from within—through self-knowledge, personal development, and authentic connection. While we can't stop the online spell market, we can educate our communities about developing personal magical skills rather than seeking quick, expensive fixes that rarely deliver.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I've got somebody with me here today.
Neri, please introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm Neri first degree at Life Temple and Seminary.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yay, a subject came up and you wanted to talk about
it.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yes, and the subject is ethics of selling spells
online.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
All right, what do you like or don't like?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I don't like the fact that none of it is personal,
because there's really no suchthing as a one-size-fits-all
spell.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
And it's energy, like if you're putting something
negative out into the world.
Who pays that price?
Is it the caster who bought thespell?
Is it the person who sold thespell?
Is it both?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I guess it really depends on how you look
at spells and how they workversus you know what in the
world we think of as a businessworld, where you have a
transaction, X amount of moneyfor this product, and you go
home and plug up your vacuumcleaner and it works.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, another thing is how many people really know
exactly what they need in life.
You might be asking for a spellfor just a windfall of money,
when what you really need is aspell for a new job, and the
(02:01):
person who sold you that spellhasn't talked to you about what
you really need, doesn't knowyou at all, doesn't know your
energy.
So you're out here doing spellsthat you know you don't really
need that spell.
You need something else and youdon't realize it because you
haven't spoken to anybody aboutwhat you really need, about what
(02:24):
you actually need versus whatyou want.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, all right, because there is a difference
between what you need and whatyou really need, about what you
actually need versus what youwant, yeah all right, because
there is a difference betweenwhat you need and what you want
there's definitely a differencebetween what you need and what
you want, I mean I've heard ofspells that go like this woman
does a spell to start a new lifeand her family leaves her,
everybody abandons her, sheloses her house, the whole nine
yards, and then she goes to awitch.
(02:46):
He goes.
What did I do wrong?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
well, you didn't you've got that new life that
you wanted new life you wanted.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
How much of a clean slate do you need?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
that's another thing is some of these things.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
They need to be very specific and what you're going
to get online most of the timeis very generic yeah and then
you have these wild and crazythings that are just taking
advantage of people is theproblem here that we're seeing,
or the problem you have withthis is this because, well,
(03:21):
you've been taught to use magicfor a specific way, in a
specific style, to a certainextent.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I think some of it is .
Speaker 2 (03:31):
The other is that I mean because we more teach that
we use spells and stuff to helpcounsel.
Or yeah, do other thingsbesides just cast the spell.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, do other things besides just cast the spell,
yeah, but the other thing is, Ithink some of it really is just
a means to make money and theperson who's selling the spell
doesn't really care about theend result.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think that's what part of my problem is is that
you have to care about the endresult.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, let's admit it, the selling of spells and doing
spells for others has been abig part of the community for a
number of years, to the point towhere we even have comments
about them in our laws.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, it has been, but you're selling spells to
people.
You know You're face-to to faceyou can actually speak to these
people.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What are those laws?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
those laws are.
It's basically any person whois selling spells or rituals is
a sorcerer and a charlatan andbecause witches are?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
because, according to the laws, we are never allowed
to take money for spells.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
For the power.
Yes, it's basically sayingnever allowed to take money for
the power.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Right Now we can barter.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, we can barter.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
But we can't necessarily take money.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So it's more along the lines of hmm, derry, hey, I
need a spell, and blah, blah,blah, and I just happen to have
this tea on me that I know youreally like.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And the first thing I'm going to tell you is thanks
for that offer, but have youthought about doing this
yourself?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, let's admit it, that's not how we start out.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, we do start out trying to counsel a little bit,
trying to see what this personactually needs, because they
again they may not know whatthey actually need.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
so well, let's put it to you this way.
All right, someone does come toa spell to one of us in our
tradition.
What do you think they're goingto get?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
what do you think this?
Process is going to be like thefirst thing they're going to
get is a conversation.
They're going to get aconversation about why they
think they need this spell andmake it even worse.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You're going to probably even wind up getting
some type of psychic reading yes, in that process either through
tarot cards rooms yes or one ofthese things.
Why do we think this process,this part of the process, is so
important?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
because you need to know how something's going to
turn out.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You need to know if you're going down the right path
right and you need to know whatin the world the person really
needs yes, that they reallywon't.
Yes because a lot of people'scommunications about what they
want lack.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
They do.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You know the quite right wordage or whatever to get
them there.
So we sort of have to, like yousaid earlier.
Hey, I just need you know money.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
No, you don't, you need something else definitely.
And after that, after thatfirst conversation, you might
get told to go home and thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You might be told to go home and think about it.
You might be told to go homeand meditate.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yes, Go home and meditate on the problem, because
everybody, we have a knee-jerkreaction to every situation we
get in.
Yes, we have that initialknee-jerk reaction.
What you have to learn to do isnot actually react when your
brain is saying, hey, I need toreact this way.
Stop yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I want to sit here and say it's okay to feel those
feelings.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It is.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
In the moment but, acting on them is not the wisest
thing to do?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
No because most of the time that's when somebody's
going to pop up and say I needthis spell for this Right.
When you don't Right, you needto sit down and think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Right, this is where you wind up with the phone calls
of how in the world do I blessthe raccoon penis bone to make
my ex never get another?
My ex never get another.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
When, in that situation, you don't need your
ex to never move on, you needsomething to move on.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I'm just saying you just don't want nothing to move
down there anymore, oh goodness.
But again, that's when you windup with things like that
happening, where you've got thepeople calling you up going.
Hey, how in the world can Icurse this person?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
because I'm more mad than anything well, the first
thing is you need to calm downright.
First of all, the idea is toget them to calm down and
realize what the world may bereally going on here because in
my lived experience, ifsomebody's made me mad, I'm
either just too emotional aboutit or if I continue to be mad
(08:25):
about it, they're usually.
One of our other laws isusually the gods take the
balance, yes, and I don't haveto do anything.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
You know it, normally things tend to work out.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
sometimes they do they do, they really do
Sometimes, all right, so youhave people out here, they do,
they do they really do Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
All right, so you have people out here they're
selling these spells and some ofthese spells they're selling
I'm going to say might be alittle dangerous.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And some of the prices on these are freaking
ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh, my goodness, there is such craziness out
there.
Oh my goodness, there is suchcraziness out there.
I have seen some that are aninitiation ritual into vampirism
and they were originally$10,000, but now they're on sale
for five and rituals thatinclude working with demons to
(09:27):
get revenge, and even one forimmortality, and that thing was
$20,000, on sale for $10,000.
And you had to do the ritualevery three months.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Now here's what kills me is you have a problem with
this right.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
But do you have a problem with going down to the
local bookstore picking up abook with the word written all
over it spell book for $20?
.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
See, that is one of the things.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Now I'm splitting hairs here, Don't get me wrong.
What's really the differencebetween?
This is acceptable to buy aspell book with a bunch of
spells in it and me going onlineand buying a spell see, that's
the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Is there really a difference?
Because you can get a spellbook and have no context as to
how that spell is supposed towork, why these ingredients work
the way they do, essentiallyjust kind of skipping over the
whole Witches pyramid Before thespell, not giving you any
(10:34):
warnings Of side effects of thespell or anything.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So I mean there are other things to casting a spell
Besides Place, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yes, there is.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Slot A into slot B and and that's another.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I mean, you still get it on both sides.
No real learning behind thespell, whether you're buying it
online or whether you're buyinga book you know, but then I hate
to be this way.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
If you've been classically I don't want to say
classically, but if you've beentrained well, I don't want to
say classically, but if you'vebeen trained well enough, don't
really need to.
You just make your own spells.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
No, yeah, if you've been trained well enough, like
you don't really need a spellbook.
I mean, you can have a spellbook if you need ideas.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, but if you've been trained to know you can
research the herbs that do thisthat and the other thing looking
up again.
You can look it up for yourself.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Looking up the correspondences for free online
yes is a piece of cake andthat's another thing is that
most of the information, most ofthe things that people are
charging you for, they you canusually find it for free.
Yes, if you look hard enough,you can usually find it for free
.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's sort of the same argument about the people
who do the.
You got to pay for the witchclasses online yes, and I've
seen that too, but yeah, youknow, you can find the
information out there for freeor just buy books and yeah work
your way around it and withbooks, I mean you can go to the
bookstore and look at the spellsand go this isn't for me and
(12:09):
put it down.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
You can find something that kind of speaks to
you.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well, I mean the one like the one spell book I know I
have on my shelf, is thisthousand something?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
five thousand encyclopedia.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I have the same one I mean I rarely open it up.
Some of them are cute, some meeither some of them.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I look at and go what what?
I saw a spell for healing inthat book and, if I remember
correctly, you're supposed to doI can't remember the exact
thing that you're supposed to do, but you're supposed to put
your sickness into like a stoneor a stick and throw it into the
river.
(12:48):
Yes, and my thought was are younot putting your sickness into
the river and causing everythingin that river?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, the idea there, the way that works is, is that
the nature spirits or the natureenergy that's there is greater
than that little bit of sicknessand it will demolish it.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I would hope so.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
All right.
There's the thought, with stufflike that, that the water
itself is going to cleanse thatenergy away or neutralize it.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I would hope so, Cause that was my first thought
and I was like oh, why would youdo this?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
salt and I was like oh, why would you do this?
Well, uh, you know, putting adark bean inside of a charm,
then placing that charm insideof a jar and then filling it up
with salt, sealing it up andputting it into the water tends
to trap things very well yeah,because salt is.
You know, you're basicallyinsulating it before you even
put it into the water before youput it into the water, and then
everything together just sortof traps it there.
(13:50):
So again a type of spell orsomething, but you're still
using nature as sort of a guardanother thing I did well.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Another problem I have is energy.
How do you like tarot cardreadings and I can tell you your
future like, and I've on Etsylike you can have a five card
tarot spread and then you'llhave it within the hour.
And I'm like how accurate isthat when you've never met this
person?
or sat down or felt you've neversat down in front of them no so
(14:25):
I performed a little experimentokay um, I bought tarot
readings from four differentpeople on etsy.
Don't worry, I didn't spend aton of money, I spent like less
than ten dollars um, just toprove a point yeah I asked a
specific question and I askedwill I ever find love?
And I asked that specificquestion because I've been
(14:49):
married for almost 20 years.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I was was about to say I already know the answer to
that question.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I was like is somebody going to have enough
intuitiveness?
to slap these cards down and sayyou've already found love.
Why are you asking this?
None of them had that.
None of them had thatintuitiveness.
They all said, oh, you're goingto find love and this is the
kind of love you're going tohave.
(15:14):
Now I will say, when they weretalking about the kind of love
you'll have, it does pretty muchdescribe the kind of
relationship I do have with myhusband, but in the end they
still don't get it right.
Now, if I had been directly infront of them, would they have
gotten it right?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
See, but I hate to say it this way, not everyone's
good at intuition reading.
They're not All right, I mean,and learning how to do, I mean
we try to teach y'all intuitionreading above everything else.
And again, it's difficultbecause you've been a first for
a year and a half Over a year.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, about a year and a half.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Year and a half year and a half, and trust me, I I'm
sure you're still struggling.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yes, it's because you have to find the type of it's
divination.
Basically, you have to kind offind the type of divination that
really speaks to you, and I'mstill working on that.
I'm still working on the kindof divination that really speaks
to me because when you look atthe tarot cards and you see
there's 72, and you're like I'vegot to learn a meaning behind
(16:17):
72 different cards, what no?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
it does seem a little daunting it does um.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
And another point, tiktok, because we've kind of
been like all of this stuff Ifound on Etsy but TikTok there
is before we leave the subjectof Etsy.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I know something was brought up about that this is
for entertainment use only.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And that that is the biggie.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I remember this because Lady Keegan was telling
me about this, because she has astore on Etsy, and basically
what it amounts to is is peoplewere buying spells and of course
, they weren't working at thevery bottom.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
It always says for entertainment purposes.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's where that's where they had to put that as a
loophole.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
That way they get less complaints and won't yes
and I can understand the legalpart of that, yeah, but when you
really look at it, it's makingthe whole craft a joke well,
it's making us seem like conartists, yes, like con artists.
Magic isn't something to betaken seriously when it very
much is and especially when youput money in there yes, it
(17:29):
begins to seem a little trivialand stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I mean I'm sure witches back inthe day when they had to Lady
Santana and stuff where they hadto make a living yes made
charms and stuff like that andsold them charms to onlookers
and basically tourist peopletype type people.
(17:53):
That's all they were ever done.
It was never done as a who gotyou.
It's just a trinket yeah,selling so I don't think we felt
bad about that, because we knewwhat we were doing.
They knew what they were buyingyeah I don't think anybody that
came to any of the witch shopsback in the day really believed
that if they just bought avoodoo doll that they had power.
No, no.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I don't know really anything about voodoo, but yeah,
I'm sure there's quite a lot oflearning behind how a voodoo
doll actually works.
But as far as TikTok goes, isit kind of a loophole in the law
because you can make a videoshow on a spell and how to do it
.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You're not charging anybody but you still make money
off the views, off the viewslet's say that sort of makes me
think it's more like what youwould see in the books.
Either you go, and because youhave the option, I can go to a
bookstore and buy a book ofspells and I don't feel bad
about it because, again, I'mmore likely in most of these
(18:57):
books I'm going to get a littlebit of a lesson.
You are All right Now, if I'mtoo stupid and skip it myself,
that's my fault.
You know, unlike when I'msitting down with an, you know
with a wedge, and they'resupposedly supposed to be making
a spell and they're not tellingme about the witch's pyramid
and all this other stuff, or notdoing a council, they're just
going.
Oh, here's your spell Give me my$5, go, you know, and it's
(19:19):
going to cost you $10 to get allthe supplies from me that you
need too.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, $10.
But how much of that supply isreally going toward that spell?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, I hate to be this way.
How supply is really goingtoward that spill?
Well, I hate to be this way.
How many of these peopleselling moon water?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
is it actually moon water?
Who?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
knows, I mean to be quite honest with you.
I mean, that's kind of like thespring water.
How do you know it's spring?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
and don't even get me started on the moon water,
because it's so easy to set ajar out in your backyard and
just pick it up before the sunhits it.
It's so easy, you can do it forfree.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I know, but yeah, people are selling this moon
water.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
They do Everywhere.
You can buy it online.
You can buy it in some of thewitch stores.
I don't see it in every store Igo in which is okay, like most
people know.
You know you shouldn't bebuying moon water.
I feel like that's somethingthat most people know, is that
you shouldn't be buying moonwater.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Well, I mean, there's always that lazy person that
thinks, well, if I just get itfrom somebody else.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yes, but how lazy do you have to be to not set a jar
out in your yard?
I just You're asking me Reallyto be, to not set a jar out in
your yard.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You're asking me.
Look, look, it's bad out therewith the way they sell spells.
It is, it really is, and trustme, there are a ton out there
that are yes, they're tellingyou what they want you to hear.
Yes, I see it on YouTube withthe podcast, where every week,
(20:58):
they're talking about a newspell or something else.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yes, this is a cure, this is a fix-all.
Oh, and that's another thing,is marketing.
Magic is a fix-all, magic doesnot.
You don't need magic to fixeverything in your life you
don't Fix all magic does not.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You don't need magic to fix everything in your life,
you don't.
It's a conversation.
The subject we've kept ontrying to approach on the
podcast is because you have tostart realizing when reality
it's starting to be reality andwhen your perception, or Because
unfortunately, in the pagancommunity we have this thing
(21:34):
that because we perceive reality, we make it and because we make
reality as we think of it, thatwe can change the world to
whatever we want.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yes, but you don't necessarily need magic to change
that world to whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It don't work, it's bull.
At some point the real worlddoes insert itself there is no
spell that's going to suddenlychange a tree into an actual
person no there's no spellthat's suddenly going to make
the earth start to spinbackwards nope all right.
So that's part of where in theworld this is.
(22:09):
Where does magic end and whendoes reality kick in?
When does magic don't work?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
You know, I think that would be something that the
line is different for everybody.
I would think.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I don't think so I think the line is that it's not
the fact that we create reality,it's that we each perceive
reality slightly different.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Reality is still the exact same.
It doesn't change for any of us.
It's just our perception of itor our understanding of it that
changes.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
All right.
The only things where ourwillpower starts to, I believe,
starts to actually have realeffect over our lives is
internally, that we're twistingourselves to fit into those
shapes, to go through those, toget what we need.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
All right, it is better to cast the spell for
knowledge and wisdom on how tomake money than it would be just
to do a spell for money.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
All right.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Because that knowledge is going to serve you
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That spell might get you $10 next week Again it's the
concept Give a man a fish for aday, he'll eat for a day.
You teach him the fish he'lleat for a lifetime.
Again, this is still the sameconcept that we're talking about
here.
If you learn how to do thisstuff and you really do
understand it you startmanipulating this to your
advantage.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
All right, it's that piece of a cake.
You just trick yourself intobehaving certain ways.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
But really the whole thing is there's no, there's no
substitute for learning.
That's basically all it is.
There's no substitute forlearning.
That's basically all it is.
There's no substitute forlearning.
I think paying for spellsonline is just a really quick
fix.
And most of the time quickfixes.
(24:05):
You're like, let's say,something worked, but one week
later you're back at yourstarting point.
You're gonna have to just keepfixing it over and over, again,
again, until you get to the rootof it yeah, it's kind of like
the.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's kind of like my slight problem with uh reiki.
Reiki never actually if reikirestraintens out the energy, but
if you don't work on the rootof the problem, it's just going
to knock right back up yes, itis so there's the solution to
this.
This is where in the world more, where we're trained people to
(24:43):
count some more, to try to getpeople to realize what they need
versus what they actually wantyes, a lot of times it's people
thinking that, oh, these arewitches, they cast all the time.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They cast all the time.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
We don't actually no, no, I'm trying my best to think
of the last spell I cast.
I believe it was over a yearago.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Like we don't, because most of the time we
don't really need to.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Okay, Now taking money and stuff off the table,
right.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
What about?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
just casting spells for someone who actually has a
need.
Do you have a problem with that?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I do not, because in that case and let me give an
example Like that girlfriend whohas the ex that really doesn't
want to leave him alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And there's a little nervousness there and there's
something there you can workwith.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yes, there is, but the first thing I'm going to do
is really talk to this person,yeah, and then, if I figure out
that there is something I can doto help them, I'm going to say,
well, I am going to help you,but not in the way that you
wanted me to initially, andhere's why.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, now, first of all, I would look at this person
.
Well, first of all, here's whatwe're going to do.
If they're really bothering youthat much, let's go to, let's
go to the police department andsee if we can file a restraining
order or a police report ofsome kind.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Now, I'm not saying we won't cast the spell on top.
Yeah, to give it a little extra, but we have to, I would say,
in certain situations you haveto deal with the mundane first.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yes, I mean casting a spell to protect your house
from thieves are great, but ifyou don't, but at the same time,
a camera system and, yeah, lockin your doors.
Yeah, they work just fine inconjunction with and see, that's
where I see a lot of peoplegetting the problem with is they
don't understand that magicworks as a conjunction with
(26:43):
other things.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It does, it's not.
I kind of compare theirthinking to the Christians who
are?
What are they?
I can't remember what they'recalled, but they just rely
completely on faith, healingRight, no medical interventions
whatsoever.
They have this thought that Godis magically going to touch
(27:05):
going to come down from heavenand touch their child.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
There are Christian science.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yes, no medications.
No, nothing.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
To me that's what that kind of feels like is if
pagans expecting magic to solveall their problems when it's not
.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Where it doesn't always work no you know I'm not
going to sit there and saypeople haven't been healed
through magic or through faithbut it's not the only thing.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's not the only thing there, there's other
factors it's like, yes, youhelped the healing process along
, but so did that antibiotic,right so?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
or so you know, or that slight cancer treatment or
whatever.
Most of the spells actually dowork in conjunction with
something else going on.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And a lot of times, when you're purchasing spells
online or you're copying a spellyou saw on TikTok, you're not
realizing that.
You're not realizing it'ssupposed to work in conjunction
with something else.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Now we've pretty much trashed the people that sell
spells like this.
All right, well, I don't wantto.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I don't want to entirely trash them.
I did see a little bit of I'mjust going to call it a little
bit of glimmer of hope, becauseI did see some who were offering
consultations before they wouldsell you a spell.
Okay, I did see some of that,and I did see 95 of what was
(28:30):
being sold online was a digitaldownload and you had to do it
yourself all right so a lot ofpeople are realizing that if
somebody else does the spell foryou, it's really not going to
work well, let's explain how inthe world we we pretty much
train people.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
They expect okay, somebody comes to my house.
They want a spell.
I'm going to sit down and we'lldo some type of reading with
them.
We're going to do somecounseling and then I might do a
spell for them all rightemphasis on might, might all
right, and if I do that, I'mgoing to send them out and I'm
going to tell them to get doubleof whatever items they need for
the spell.
They're going to come back.
(29:09):
I'm going to do the spell.
The other half of that itemsI'm going to keep for my charms
To sell later, bartering, gofigure.
Then that spell.
We both know right now thatthat spell is probably going to
land flat or nothing.
Oh yeah, expectations.
So we go ahead and set it upand tell them say now, when this
gets done, in a couple weeks,come back and see us.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
In a couple of weeks.
Hey nothing's happening.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So we sit down, we do another reading, we have
another conversation with them.
Then we might ask them to goout and get the stuff for
another spell.
With the spell slightly altered,we might ask them to go out and
get the stuff for another spell, with the spell slightly
altered, with the spell slightlyaltered, where they help us do
the spell, then when that sortof works or not works exactly
the way they want to it's goingto be the third time that they
show up.
(29:55):
We're going to have thisconversation with them where
you're going to give them thespell, tell them what they need
to go out and do for the spell,and they're going to do it
without us, and I'm going toimagine that most of the time
the spell is probably not thesame as the first one.
Nope.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Because now you've gotten down to the root of what
they actually need.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And we've really created a real spell for them to
go out and do and we've hadtime to sort of train them and
hype them up to have that energyto go out and like just a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Just a little bit but the point of this pattern is
the chance to counsel thesepeople three or four times yes,
because that's really what it isis the chance to counsel, and
that's really what you'remissing if you're buying spells
online or, right, paying peopleto do spells for you, that's
really what you're missing is alot of magic is found within
(30:49):
yourself.
Yes, and you're not reallylooking inward you're just
looking for the quick fix.
The magic is in you exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I mean there is a, there is a style of spell that
we eventually teach to, whereyou do nothing but sit down and
meditate to cast the spells.
So it's just pure energy work.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yes, and that is what is missing.
That is what is missing.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Now, like I said, we've pretty much trashed the
people that sell this.
What about the people buying?
I mean, do we have sympathy forthem?
I would have a little bit ofsympathy, I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Because desperate people do desperate things.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Again, they're off the cuff, thinking I need this,
I need this, I need this.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Versus that woman who has to go get a card reading
every week or yes every otherweek, just because?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
and yeah, um, I don't really feel sorry for the woman
who's getting a card readingevery other week just because,
because at some point, I mean,these are also the same people
that are casting spell likeevery day for something, because
at some point like you have tostop, like why are you letting
somebody else try to tell youhow to live your life?
Go live your life.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Nobody else, the cards don't need to dictate your
entire life no, no, but somepeople get into those patterns,
some people they do some peoplerely on their faith a little too
much they do.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's like having faith in the outside power.
They again have yet to realizethat power's in you, it's not
out there.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
No, it's somewhere deep inside of you and it comes
from your feelings.
Yes, all right.
If you don't feel, you'rereally not going to do very good
at casting a spell.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
No, and really a person who needs to go get card
readings that often you have towonder how shut off they are
from themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well, does this not show, how much self-doubt they
have?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, they do.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I mean because willpower and being very
confident in oneself in craft isa very important key.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It is you have to really know.
It's basically really knowingyourself.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
It's being somebody who needs a card reading is so
very disconnected fromthemselves.
And when you're thatdisconnected from yourself, yeah
, you're not going to trustyourself.
No.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, you're always going to doubt yourself.
You're always going to sort ofthink or always question did I
make the right choice, Did I not?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
You know, and then you get too wrapped up in it to
see where in the world you'regoing.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
And I've seen people like that.
I've seen people like, just,you ask them how they feel about
something and they can't reallyanswer you.
And then you ask them again andthey still can't answer you.
And I just think, gosh, thisperson is really disconnected
from themselves.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
There's a lot of people like that.
I think that's a differentsubject.
Yeah, that's a different topicand I want to cover that one,
but not right now.
Anything else about sellingspells you'd like to?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Not really.
Like I said, I think at somepoint we may get to a balance
where people are realizing hey,I don't, I mean this, maybe I
need something different.
It's like when I first came totemple, I was reading, reading,
reading, reading all these books, but I knew there was something
missing.
I think eventually, all thesepeople who are buying these
(34:42):
spells all the time, maybethey'll realize that something
is missing.
Maybe, but who knows, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
This is a problem that has been going on for.
Ever, Forever, and it's notanything that's going to be
solved overnight.
Yeah, all right, people aregoing to buy spells and again,
we can't stop people.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
No, you can't All again.
We can't stop people.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
No, you can't All right, I can't stop people from
selling.
You know, there's no grandwitch council.
So again, all we can do is sithere and state what the world of
viewpoint is.
Knowing that there are otherpeople out there.
No, no, I'm going to sell aspell anyway, All right.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I mean, that's on you .
You're the one who has to paythat balance.
I'm just saying.
But on the other hand, I meanyou have all of these Wiccan
shops out here selling theingredients for spells, selling
candles, selling this, that andthe other.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, I've seen them sell the spell in a box when
it's a box and it's a pre-madespell with everything in there.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
But the thing is you still have to pick that up off
the shelf and go talk to and gosay, hey, I want to buy this
right.
But you have the chance to getcounseled on that spell maybe,
maybe you know.
Um, I don't really have so muchof a problem with that, because
not everybody can take herbs,for instance.
(36:04):
Not everybody has the time togrow their own herbs, so it's
convenient.
It's convenient and sellingthat stuff online.
Not everybody has the abilityto get out and go to a store and
buy that stuff, so there's.
I look at it as it's a blessingand a curse.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
At the same time.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
At the same time.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
So there is a good side to all of this being online
, but then there's the bad side.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You can get a little shady there.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Human nature inserts itself and people are always
going to try to push the limitsof everything, and there will
always be people who abuse theirpower, you know, I mean always.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Again, it's kind of like those people who go oh,
here I'm going to do this fiftythousand dollar spell, but it's
on sale for just ten dollars oh,it's on sale for just ten
dollars, and I'm only offeringit one time this year.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Like the immortality spell, it's going to be the only
one available for this year.
For this year $20,000 forimmortality, never mind the fact
that our bodies are made toexpire.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Not if you inject them with coffee.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
You know what Sounds like a good idea?
It?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
does.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
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Speaker 4 (37:43):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, the End of Our Days.
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Speaker 2 (00:25):
So I've got somebody with me here today.
Neri, please introduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm Neri first degree at Life Temple and Seminary.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yay, a subject came up and you wanted to talk about
it.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yes, and the subject is ethics of selling spells
online.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
All right, what do you like or don't like?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I don't like the fact that none of it is personal,
because there's really no suchthing as a one-size-fits-all
spell.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
And it's energy, like if you're putting something
negative out into the world.
Who pays that price?
Is it the caster who bought thespell?
Is it the person who sold thespell?
Is it both?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I guess it really depends on how you look
at spells and how they workversus you know what in the
world we think of as a businessworld, where you have a
transaction, X amount of moneyfor this product, and you go
home and plug up your vacuumcleaner and it works.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, another thing is how many people really know
exactly what they need in life.
You might be asking for a spellfor just a windfall of money,
when what you really need is aspell for a new job, and the
(02:01):
person who sold you that spellhasn't talked to you about what
you really need, doesn't knowyou at all, doesn't know your
energy.
So you're out here doing spellsthat you know you don't really
need that spell.
You need something else and youdon't realize it because you
haven't spoken to anybody aboutwhat you really need, about what
(02:24):
you actually need versus whatyou want.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, all right, because there is a difference
between what you need and whatyou really need, about what you
actually need versus what youwant, yeah all right, because
there is a difference betweenwhat you need and what you want
there's definitely a differencebetween what you need and what
you want, I mean I've heard ofspells that go like this woman
does a spell to start a new lifeand her family leaves her,
everybody abandons her, sheloses her house, the whole nine
yards, and then she goes to awitch.
(02:46):
He goes.
What did I do wrong?
Speaker 3 (02:47):
well, you didn't you've got that new life that
you wanted new life you wanted.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
How much of a clean slate do you need?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
that's another thing is some of these things.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
They need to be very specific and what you're going
to get online most of the timeis very generic yeah and then
you have these wild and crazythings that are just taking
advantage of people is theproblem here that we're seeing,
or the problem you have withthis is this because, well,
(03:21):
you've been taught to use magicfor a specific way, in a
specific style, to a certainextent.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I think some of it is .
Speaker 2 (03:31):
The other is that I mean because we more teach that
we use spells and stuff to helpcounsel.
Or yeah, do other thingsbesides just cast the spell.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, do other things besides just cast the spell,
yeah, but the other thing is, Ithink some of it really is just
a means to make money and theperson who's selling the spell
doesn't really care about theend result.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think that's what part of my problem is is that
you have to care about the endresult.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, let's admit it, the selling of spells and doing
spells for others has been abig part of the community for a
number of years, to the point towhere we even have comments
about them in our laws.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, it has been, but you're selling spells to
people.
You know You're face-to to faceyou can actually speak to these
people.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What are those laws?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
those laws are.
It's basically any person whois selling spells or rituals is
a sorcerer and a charlatan andbecause witches are?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
because, according to the laws, we are never allowed
to take money for spells.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
For the power.
Yes, it's basically sayingnever allowed to take money for
the power.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Right Now we can barter.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, we can barter.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
But we can't necessarily take money.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So it's more along the lines of hmm, derry, hey, I
need a spell, and blah, blah,blah, and I just happen to have
this tea on me that I know youreally like.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And the first thing I'm going to tell you is thanks
for that offer, but have youthought about doing this
yourself?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, let's admit it, that's not how we start out.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, we do start out trying to counsel a little bit,
trying to see what this personactually needs, because they
again they may not know whatthey actually need.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
so well, let's put it to you this way.
All right, someone does come toa spell to one of us in our
tradition.
What do you think they're goingto get?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
what do you think this?
Process is going to be like thefirst thing they're going to
get is a conversation.
They're going to get aconversation about why they
think they need this spell andmake it even worse.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You're going to probably even wind up getting
some type of psychic reading yes, in that process either through
tarot cards rooms yes or one ofthese things.
Why do we think this process,this part of the process, is so
important?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
because you need to know how something's going to
turn out.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You need to know if you're going down the right path
right and you need to know whatin the world the person really
needs yes, that they reallywon't.
Yes because a lot of people'scommunications about what they
want lack.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
They do.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
You know the quite right wordage or whatever to get
them there.
So we sort of have to, like yousaid earlier.
Hey, I just need you know money.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
No, you don't, you need something else definitely.
And after that, after thatfirst conversation, you might
get told to go home and thinkabout it.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You might be told to go home and think about it.
You might be told to go homeand meditate.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yes, Go home and meditate on the problem, because
everybody, we have a knee-jerkreaction to every situation we
get in.
Yes, we have that initialknee-jerk reaction.
What you have to learn to do isnot actually react when your
brain is saying, hey, I need toreact this way.
Stop yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I want to sit here and say it's okay to feel those
feelings.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
It is.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
In the moment but, acting on them is not the wisest
thing to do?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
No because most of the time that's when somebody's
going to pop up and say I needthis spell for this Right.
When you don't Right, you needto sit down and think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Right, this is where you wind up with the phone calls
of how in the world do I blessthe raccoon penis bone to make
my ex never get another?
My ex never get another.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
When, in that situation, you don't need your
ex to never move on, you needsomething to move on.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I'm just saying you just don't want nothing to move
down there anymore, oh goodness.
But again, that's when you windup with things like that
happening, where you've got thepeople calling you up going.
Hey, how in the world can Icurse this person?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
because I'm more mad than anything well, the first
thing is you need to calm downright.
First of all, the idea is toget them to calm down and
realize what the world may bereally going on here because in
my lived experience, ifsomebody's made me mad, I'm
either just too emotional aboutit or if I continue to be mad
(08:25):
about it, they're usually.
One of our other laws isusually the gods take the
balance, yes, and I don't haveto do anything.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
You know it, normally things tend to work out.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
sometimes they do they do, they really do
Sometimes, all right, so youhave people out here, they do,
they do they really do Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
All right, so you have people out here they're
selling these spells and some ofthese spells they're selling
I'm going to say might be alittle dangerous.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And some of the prices on these are freaking
ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh, my goodness, there is such craziness out
there.
Oh my goodness, there is suchcraziness out there.
I have seen some that are aninitiation ritual into vampirism
and they were originally$10,000, but now they're on sale
for five and rituals thatinclude working with demons to
(09:27):
get revenge, and even one forimmortality, and that thing was
$20,000, on sale for $10,000.
And you had to do the ritualevery three months.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Now here's what kills me is you have a problem with
this right.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
But do you have a problem with going down to the
local bookstore picking up abook with the word written all
over it spell book for $20?
.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
See, that is one of the things.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Now I'm splitting hairs here, Don't get me wrong.
What's really the differencebetween?
This is acceptable to buy aspell book with a bunch of
spells in it and me going onlineand buying a spell see, that's
the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Is there really a difference?
Because you can get a spellbook and have no context as to
how that spell is supposed towork, why these ingredients work
the way they do, essentiallyjust kind of skipping over the
whole Witches pyramid Before thespell, not giving you any
(10:34):
warnings Of side effects of thespell or anything.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So I mean there are other things to casting a spell
Besides Place, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yes, there is.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Slot A into slot B and and that's another.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I mean, you still get it on both sides.
No real learning behind thespell, whether you're buying it
online or whether you're buyinga book you know, but then I hate
to be this way.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
If you've been classically I don't want to say
classically, but if you've beentrained well, I don't want to
say classically, but if you'vebeen trained well enough, don't
really need to.
You just make your own spells.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
No, yeah, if you've been trained well enough, like
you don't really need a spellbook.
I mean, you can have a spellbook if you need ideas.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, but if you've been trained to know you can
research the herbs that do thisthat and the other thing looking
up again.
You can look it up for yourself.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Looking up the correspondences for free online
yes is a piece of cake andthat's another thing is that
most of the information, most ofthe things that people are
charging you for, they you canusually find it for free.
Yes, if you look hard enough,you can usually find it for free
.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's sort of the same argument about the people
who do the.
You got to pay for the witchclasses online yes, and I've
seen that too, but yeah, youknow, you can find the
information out there for freeor just buy books and yeah work
your way around it and withbooks, I mean you can go to the
bookstore and look at the spellsand go this isn't for me and
(12:09):
put it down.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
You can find something that kind of speaks to
you.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well, I mean the one like the one spell book I know I
have on my shelf, is thisthousand something?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
five thousand encyclopedia.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I have the same one I mean I rarely open it up.
Some of them are cute, some meeither some of them.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I look at and go what what?
I saw a spell for healing inthat book and, if I remember
correctly, you're supposed to doI can't remember the exact
thing that you're supposed to do, but you're supposed to put
your sickness into like a stoneor a stick and throw it into the
river.
(12:48):
Yes, and my thought was are younot putting your sickness into
the river and causing everythingin that river?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Well, the idea there, the way that works is, is that
the nature spirits or the natureenergy that's there is greater
than that little bit of sicknessand it will demolish it.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I would hope so.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
All right.
There's the thought, with stufflike that, that the water
itself is going to cleanse thatenergy away or neutralize it.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I would hope so, Cause that was my first thought
and I was like oh, why would youdo this?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
salt and I was like oh, why would you do this?
Well, uh, you know, putting adark bean inside of a charm,
then placing that charm insideof a jar and then filling it up
with salt, sealing it up andputting it into the water tends
to trap things very well yeah,because salt is.
You know, you're basicallyinsulating it before you even
put it into the water before youput it into the water, and then
everything together just sortof traps it there.
(13:50):
So again a type of spell orsomething, but you're still
using nature as sort of a guardanother thing I did well.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Another problem I have is energy.
How do you like tarot cardreadings and I can tell you your
future like, and I've on Etsylike you can have a five card
tarot spread and then you'llhave it within the hour.
And I'm like how accurate isthat when you've never met this
person?
or sat down or felt you've neversat down in front of them no so
(14:25):
I performed a little experimentokay um, I bought tarot
readings from four differentpeople on etsy.
Don't worry, I didn't spend aton of money, I spent like less
than ten dollars um, just toprove a point yeah I asked a
specific question and I askedwill I ever find love?
And I asked that specificquestion because I've been
(14:49):
married for almost 20 years.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I was was about to say I already know the answer to
that question.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I was like is somebody going to have enough
intuitiveness?
to slap these cards down and sayyou've already found love.
Why are you asking this?
None of them had that.
None of them had thatintuitiveness.
They all said, oh, you're goingto find love and this is the
kind of love you're going tohave.
(15:14):
Now I will say, when they weretalking about the kind of love
you'll have, it does pretty muchdescribe the kind of
relationship I do have with myhusband, but in the end they
still don't get it right.
Now, if I had been directly infront of them, would they have
gotten it right?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
See, but I hate to say it this way, not everyone's
good at intuition reading.
They're not All right, I mean,and learning how to do, I mean
we try to teach y'all intuitionreading above everything else.
And again, it's difficultbecause you've been a first for
a year and a half Over a year.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, about a year and a half.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Year and a half year and a half, and trust me, I I'm
sure you're still struggling.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yes, it's because you have to find the type of it's
divination.
Basically, you have to kind offind the type of divination that
really speaks to you, and I'mstill working on that.
I'm still working on the kindof divination that really speaks
to me because when you look atthe tarot cards and you see
there's 72, and you're like I'vegot to learn a meaning behind
(16:17):
72 different cards, what no?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
it does seem a little daunting it does um.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
And another point, tiktok, because we've kind of
been like all of this stuff Ifound on Etsy but TikTok there
is before we leave the subjectof Etsy.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I know something was brought up about that this is
for entertainment use only.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
And that that is the biggie.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I remember this because Lady Keegan was telling
me about this, because she has astore on Etsy, and basically
what it amounts to is is peoplewere buying spells and of course
, they weren't working at thevery bottom.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
It always says for entertainment purposes.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's where that's where they had to put that as a
loophole.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
That way they get less complaints and won't yes
and I can understand the legalpart of that, yeah, but when you
really look at it, it's makingthe whole craft a joke well,
it's making us seem like conartists, yes, like con artists.
Magic isn't something to betaken seriously when it very
much is and especially when youput money in there yes, it
(17:29):
begins to seem a little trivialand stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I mean I'm sure witches back inthe day when they had to Lady
Santana and stuff where they hadto make a living yes made
charms and stuff like that andsold them charms to onlookers
and basically tourist peopletype type people.
(17:53):
That's all they were ever done.
It was never done as a who gotyou.
It's just a trinket yeah,selling so I don't think we felt
bad about that, because we knewwhat we were doing.
They knew what they were buyingyeah I don't think anybody that
came to any of the witch shopsback in the day really believed
that if they just bought avoodoo doll that they had power.
No, no.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I don't know really anything about voodoo, but yeah,
I'm sure there's quite a lot oflearning behind how a voodoo
doll actually works.
But as far as TikTok goes, isit kind of a loophole in the law
because you can make a videoshow on a spell and how to do it
.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You're not charging anybody but you still make money
off the views, off the viewslet's say that sort of makes me
think it's more like what youwould see in the books.
Either you go, and because youhave the option, I can go to a
bookstore and buy a book ofspells and I don't feel bad
about it because, again, I'mmore likely in most of these
(18:57):
books I'm going to get a littlebit of a lesson.
You are All right Now, if I'mtoo stupid and skip it myself,
that's my fault.
You know, unlike when I'msitting down with an, you know
with a wedge, and they'resupposedly supposed to be making
a spell and they're not tellingme about the witch's pyramid
and all this other stuff, or notdoing a council, they're just
going.
Oh, here's your spell Give me my$5, go, you know, and it's
(19:19):
going to cost you $10 to get allthe supplies from me that you
need too.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, $10.
But how much of that supply isreally going toward that spell?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, I hate to be this way.
How supply is really goingtoward that spill?
Well, I hate to be this way.
How many of these peopleselling moon water?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
is it actually moon water?
Who?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
knows, I mean to be quite honest with you.
I mean, that's kind of like thespring water.
How do you know it's spring?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
and don't even get me started on the moon water,
because it's so easy to set ajar out in your backyard and
just pick it up before the sunhits it.
It's so easy, you can do it forfree.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I know, but yeah, people are selling this moon
water.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
They do Everywhere.
You can buy it online.
You can buy it in some of thewitch stores.
I don't see it in every store Igo in which is okay, like most
people know.
You know you shouldn't bebuying moon water.
I feel like that's somethingthat most people know, is that
you shouldn't be buying moonwater.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Well, I mean, there's always that lazy person that
thinks, well, if I just get itfrom somebody else.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yes, but how lazy do you have to be to not set a jar
out in your yard?
I just You're asking me Reallyto be, to not set a jar out in
your yard.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
You're asking me.
Look, look, it's bad out therewith the way they sell spells.
It is, it really is, and trustme, there are a ton out there
that are yes, they're tellingyou what they want you to hear.
Yes, I see it on YouTube withthe podcast, where every week,
(20:58):
they're talking about a newspell or something else.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yes, this is a cure, this is a fix-all.
Oh, and that's another thing,is marketing.
Magic is a fix-all, magic doesnot.
You don't need magic to fixeverything in your life you
don't Fix all magic does not.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You don't need magic to fix everything in your life,
you don't.
It's a conversation.
The subject we've kept ontrying to approach on the
podcast is because you have tostart realizing when reality
it's starting to be reality andwhen your perception, or Because
unfortunately, in the pagancommunity we have this thing
(21:34):
that because we perceive reality, we make it and because we make
reality as we think of it, thatwe can change the world to
whatever we want.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yes, but you don't necessarily need magic to change
that world to whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It don't work, it's bull.
At some point the real worlddoes insert itself there is no
spell that's going to suddenlychange a tree into an actual
person no there's no spellthat's suddenly going to make
the earth start to spinbackwards nope all right.
So that's part of where in theworld this is.
(22:09):
Where does magic end and whendoes reality kick in?
When does magic don't work?
Speaker 3 (22:17):
You know, I think that would be something that the
line is different for everybody.
I would think.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I don't think so I think the line is that it's not
the fact that we create reality,it's that we each perceive
reality slightly different.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Reality is still the exact same.
It doesn't change for any of us.
It's just our perception of itor our understanding of it that
changes.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
All right.
The only things where ourwillpower starts to, I believe,
starts to actually have realeffect over our lives is
internally, that we're twistingourselves to fit into those
shapes, to go through those, toget what we need.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
All right, it is better to cast the spell for
knowledge and wisdom on how tomake money than it would be just
to do a spell for money.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
All right.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Because that knowledge is going to serve you
for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That spell might get you $10 next week Again it's the
concept Give a man a fish for aday, he'll eat for a day.
You teach him the fish he'lleat for a lifetime.
Again, this is still the sameconcept that we're talking about
here.
If you learn how to do thisstuff and you really do
understand it you startmanipulating this to your
advantage.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
All right, it's that piece of a cake.
You just trick yourself intobehaving certain ways.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
But really the whole thing is there's no, there's no
substitute for learning.
That's basically all it is.
There's no substitute forlearning.
That's basically all it is.
There's no substitute forlearning.
I think paying for spellsonline is just a really quick
fix.
And most of the time quickfixes.
(24:05):
You're like, let's say,something worked, but one week
later you're back at yourstarting point.
You're gonna have to just keepfixing it over and over, again,
again, until you get to the rootof it yeah, it's kind of like
the.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's kind of like my slight problem with uh reiki.
Reiki never actually if reikirestraintens out the energy, but
if you don't work on the rootof the problem, it's just going
to knock right back up yes, itis so there's the solution to
this.
This is where in the world more, where we're trained people to
(24:43):
count some more, to try to getpeople to realize what they need
versus what they actually wantyes, a lot of times it's people
thinking that, oh, these arewitches, they cast all the time.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They cast all the time.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
We don't actually no, no, I'm trying my best to think
of the last spell I cast.
I believe it was over a yearago.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Like we don't, because most of the time we
don't really need to.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Okay, Now taking money and stuff off the table,
right.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
What about?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
just casting spells for someone who actually has a
need.
Do you have a problem with that?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I do not, because in that case and let me give an
example Like that girlfriend whohas the ex that really doesn't
want to leave him alone.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And there's a little nervousness there and there's
something there you can workwith.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yes, there is, but the first thing I'm going to do
is really talk to this person,yeah, and then, if I figure out
that there is something I can doto help them, I'm going to say,
well, I am going to help you,but not in the way that you
wanted me to initially, andhere's why.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, now, first of all, I would look at this person
.
Well, first of all, here's whatwe're going to do.
If they're really bothering youthat much, let's go to, let's
go to the police department andsee if we can file a restraining
order or a police report ofsome kind.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Now, I'm not saying we won't cast the spell on top.
Yeah, to give it a little extra, but we have to, I would say,
in certain situations you haveto deal with the mundane first.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yes, I mean casting a spell to protect your house
from thieves are great, but ifyou don't, but at the same time,
a camera system and, yeah, lockin your doors.
Yeah, they work just fine inconjunction with and see, that's
where I see a lot of peoplegetting the problem with is they
don't understand that magicworks as a conjunction with
(26:43):
other things.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It does, it's not.
I kind of compare theirthinking to the Christians who
are?
What are they?
I can't remember what they'recalled, but they just rely
completely on faith, healingRight, no medical interventions
whatsoever.
They have this thought that Godis magically going to touch
(27:05):
going to come down from heavenand touch their child.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
There are Christian science.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yes, no medications.
No, nothing.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
To me that's what that kind of feels like is if
pagans expecting magic to solveall their problems when it's not
.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Where it doesn't always work no you know I'm not
going to sit there and saypeople haven't been healed
through magic or through faithbut it's not the only thing.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's not the only thing there, there's other
factors it's like, yes, youhelped the healing process along
, but so did that antibiotic,right so?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
or so you know, or that slight cancer treatment or
whatever.
Most of the spells actually dowork in conjunction with
something else going on.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And a lot of times, when you're purchasing spells
online or you're copying a spellyou saw on TikTok, you're not
realizing that.
You're not realizing it'ssupposed to work in conjunction
with something else.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Now we've pretty much trashed the people that sell
spells like this.
All right, well, I don't wantto.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I don't want to entirely trash them.
I did see a little bit of I'mjust going to call it a little
bit of glimmer of hope, becauseI did see some who were offering
consultations before they wouldsell you a spell.
Okay, I did see some of that,and I did see 95 of what was
(28:30):
being sold online was a digitaldownload and you had to do it
yourself all right so a lot ofpeople are realizing that if
somebody else does the spell foryou, it's really not going to
work well, let's explain how inthe world we we pretty much
train people.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
They expect okay, somebody comes to my house.
They want a spell.
I'm going to sit down and we'lldo some type of reading with
them.
We're going to do somecounseling and then I might do a
spell for them all rightemphasis on might, might all
right, and if I do that, I'mgoing to send them out and I'm
going to tell them to get doubleof whatever items they need for
the spell.
They're going to come back.
(29:09):
I'm going to do the spell.
The other half of that itemsI'm going to keep for my charms
To sell later, bartering, gofigure.
Then that spell.
We both know right now thatthat spell is probably going to
land flat or nothing.
Oh yeah, expectations.
So we go ahead and set it upand tell them say now, when this
gets done, in a couple weeks,come back and see us.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
In a couple of weeks.
Hey nothing's happening.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So we sit down, we do another reading, we have
another conversation with them.
Then we might ask them to goout and get the stuff for
another spell.
With the spell slightly altered,we might ask them to go out and
get the stuff for another spell, with the spell slightly
altered, with the spell slightlyaltered, where they help us do
the spell, then when that sortof works or not works exactly
the way they want to it's goingto be the third time that they
show up.
(29:55):
We're going to have thisconversation with them where
you're going to give them thespell, tell them what they need
to go out and do for the spell,and they're going to do it
without us, and I'm going toimagine that most of the time
the spell is probably not thesame as the first one.
Nope.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Because now you've gotten down to the root of what
they actually need.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And we've really created a real spell for them to
go out and do and we've hadtime to sort of train them and
hype them up to have that energyto go out and like just a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Just a little bit but the point of this pattern is
the chance to counsel thesepeople three or four times yes,
because that's really what it isis the chance to counsel, and
that's really what you'remissing if you're buying spells
online or, right, paying peopleto do spells for you, that's
really what you're missing is alot of magic is found within
(30:49):
yourself.
Yes, and you're not reallylooking inward you're just
looking for the quick fix.
The magic is in you exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I mean there is a, there is a style of spell that
we eventually teach to, whereyou do nothing but sit down and
meditate to cast the spells.
So it's just pure energy work.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yes, and that is what is missing.
That is what is missing.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Now, like I said, we've pretty much trashed the
people that sell this.
What about the people buying?
I mean, do we have sympathy forthem?
I would have a little bit ofsympathy, I mean.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Because desperate people do desperate things.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Again, they're off the cuff, thinking I need this,
I need this, I need this.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Versus that woman who has to go get a card reading
every week or yes every otherweek, just because?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
and yeah, um, I don't really feel sorry for the woman
who's getting a card readingevery other week just because,
because at some point, I mean,these are also the same people
that are casting spell likeevery day for something, because
at some point like you have tostop, like why are you letting
somebody else try to tell youhow to live your life?
Go live your life.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Nobody else, the cards don't need to dictate your
entire life no, no, but somepeople get into those patterns,
some people they do some peoplerely on their faith a little too
much they do.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
It's like having faith in the outside power.
They again have yet to realizethat power's in you, it's not
out there.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
No, it's somewhere deep inside of you and it comes
from your feelings.
Yes, all right.
If you don't feel, you'rereally not going to do very good
at casting a spell.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
No, and really a person who needs to go get card
readings that often you have towonder how shut off they are
from themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well, does this not show, how much self-doubt they
have?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah, they do.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I mean because willpower and being very
confident in oneself in craft isa very important key.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It is you have to really know.
It's basically really knowingyourself.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
It's being somebody who needs a card reading is so
very disconnected fromthemselves.
And when you're thatdisconnected from yourself, yeah
, you're not going to trustyourself.
No.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, you're always going to doubt yourself.
You're always going to sort ofthink or always question did I
make the right choice, Did I not?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
You know, and then you get too wrapped up in it to
see where in the world you'regoing.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
And I've seen people like that.
I've seen people like, just,you ask them how they feel about
something and they can't reallyanswer you.
And then you ask them again andthey still can't answer you.
And I just think, gosh, thisperson is really disconnected
from themselves.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
There's a lot of people like that.
I think that's a differentsubject.
Yeah, that's a different topicand I want to cover that one,
but not right now.
Anything else about sellingspells you'd like to?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Not really.
Like I said, I think at somepoint we may get to a balance
where people are realizing hey,I don't, I mean this, maybe I
need something different.
It's like when I first came totemple, I was reading, reading,
reading, reading all these books, but I knew there was something
missing.
I think eventually, all thesepeople who are buying these
(34:42):
spells all the time, maybethey'll realize that something
is missing.
Maybe, but who knows, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
This is a problem that has been going on for.
Ever, Forever, and it's notanything that's going to be
solved overnight.
Yeah, all right, people aregoing to buy spells and again,
we can't stop people.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
No, you can't All again.
We can't stop people.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
No, you can't All right, I can't stop people from
selling.
You know, there's no grandwitch council.
So again, all we can do is sithere and state what the world of
viewpoint is.
Knowing that there are otherpeople out there.
No, no, I'm going to sell aspell anyway, All right.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I mean, that's on you .
You're the one who has to paythat balance.
I'm just saying.
But on the other hand, I meanyou have all of these Wiccan
shops out here selling theingredients for spells, selling
candles, selling this, that andthe other.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, I've seen them sell the spell in a box when
it's a box and it's a pre-madespell with everything in there.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
But the thing is you still have to pick that up off
the shelf and go talk to and gosay, hey, I want to buy this
right.
But you have the chance to getcounseled on that spell maybe,
maybe you know.
Um, I don't really have so muchof a problem with that, because
not everybody can take herbs,for instance.
(36:04):
Not everybody has the time togrow their own herbs, so it's
convenient.
It's convenient and sellingthat stuff online.
Not everybody has the abilityto get out and go to a store and
buy that stuff, so there's.
I look at it as it's a blessingand a curse.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
At the same time.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
At the same time.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
So there is a good side to all of this being online
, but then there's the bad side.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You can get a little shady there.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Human nature inserts itself and people are always
going to try to push the limitsof everything, and there will
always be people who abuse theirpower, you know, I mean always.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Again, it's kind of like those people who go oh,
here I'm going to do this fiftythousand dollar spell, but it's
on sale for just ten dollars oh,it's on sale for just ten
dollars, and I'm only offeringit one time this year.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Like the immortality spell, it's going to be the only
one available for this year.
For this year $20,000 forimmortality, never mind the fact
that our bodies are made toexpire.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Not if you inject them with coffee.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
You know what Sounds like a good idea?
It?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
does.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, the End of Our Days.
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