March 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Relationships and spiritual practices merge in this thought-provoking discussion that challenges conventional religious expectations. Our hosts explore how paganism approaches romantic partnerships with refreshing openness, removing judgment from situations other traditions might condemn. From women taking the lead in relationships to the acceptance of diverse family structures, this conversation reveals how paganism prioritizes personal autonomy and mutual respect over rigid rules.
We tackle the delicate dynamics of interfaith partnerships, offering practical wisdom for those navigating spiritual differences with their loved ones. Rather than promoting marriage for religious growth, our tradition focuses on ensuring couples make sound, mature decisions based on genuine connection.
The conversation shifts to daily spiritual practices, examining how meditation serves as a cornerstone of pagan devotion. While encouraged, these practices aren't burdened with strict requirements – instead, we explore how to make them sustainable and meaningful. Our hosts share practical techniques for establishing meditation habits, including the often overlooked "walking meditation" that allows spiritual connection during everyday activities like driving or household chores.
Through personal stories and thoughtful analysis, we illustrate how spiritual growth doesn't require perfect adherence to rules, but rather mindful presence in life's journey.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'd like to talk about donating and following our
socials of relationships,specifically Because there's a
lot of kinds of relationships.
Well, I'm talking husband wife,Ah, okay, and adults, right,
okay, so significant otherswe're not talking about, like
family members and things likethat, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I want to see Aaron saying in our belief system that
I believe that we tend to wantthe women to make the first move
.
That sort of plays out in ourreligion because the whole
concept of the God chasing afterthe goddess Sure, that keeps on
coming into play in ourreligion over and over again as
she dances around tempting him.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, but I think any
relationship, I mean, obviously,if we go there, that negates,
you know, like same-sex unions,where you'd still have that
dynamic.
Somebody's always kind of thechaser, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know, I believe that we see it as more of a.
It's the woman's priority toinitiate before the guys, even
though the guys might be sittingthere going, hey, I'm here, I'm
here, see me, I'm flirting.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, I got you .
Yeah yeah, that makes sense.
I think pagan women in generaltend to be more forward.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I believe they're the ones that initiate the
relationship.
They're the ones sit down andlook at their significant others
going.
Oh no, this is a relationship,just to let you know.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I think that's the case.
Yeah, but I think that's that'sthe case in a lot of instances,
I think.
Like I said, I think paganwomen are just more forward
because we are not.
Women are just more forwardbecause we are not.
We're more, we're more aware ofour role in the union or in any
(02:32):
type of relationship, as apivotal player, and not just you
know right how, how some faithsview a woman as being the
lesser decision maker.
Yeah, so we do.
We do.
We tend to be more forward, Ithink Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
So what other things does our religion actually say
about relationships that you see, and how we're supposed to
treat each other?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think it's.
There's very little right inthe way of like hard and fast
rules.
We're not, we don't have thatwhen it when it comes to
marriage or union orrelationships.
But you know, we can alwayslook to the tenants, we can
always look to craft law andfind, I think, meaning in the
(03:23):
way we view self-conduct.
Um, we tend to be a lot more upfront with our partners and we
tend to be a little bit moreblunt, which just comes down to
if, if you can't, if you can'tdepend on me to tell you the
(03:44):
truth, then who can you?
Kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
So there's that element.
I think too, it depends on ifyou want to go down the rabbit
hole of the different traditionswhere you have more stringent
guidelines, like with the Celts,and you know the way they
viewed a union for a year and aday and you know that sort of
(04:11):
thing.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We pretty much do, don't we?
I mean, and the sort of thesociety we live in, I mean,
we're doing this pretty much now, most people live together now,
before they even get married.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
For sure, I mean.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
It's very rare nowadays to get married and
never have and not have livedwith a partner or, you know,
experienced a trial.
You know playing house, so tospeak.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Now I mean but would you encourage people in temple
to get married?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Oh, that's a crazy question, I don't know.
I mean from a religiousstandpoint.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
as priests and priestesses, we want our
religion to grow.
We want our people to getmarried, we want them to have
kids and the whole nine yards.
Is it our job to encourage thisor not to encourage?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm asking the way it used to be.
I mean, oddly right, thefundamentalist view in the
Christian faith.
I don't think it's applicableto us.
You know, so much of whathappens in the Christian faith
(05:31):
is the idea that you have aunion under God, right, you meet
a partner, you have the samefaith or same beliefs.
You have to be on the same pageor you can't get married
effectively.
And then you enter the union,you have children and then you
(05:51):
raise those children in thefaith.
So in a weird way, right, it'sproselytizing within the house,
right, which I think is kind ofcrap, kind of crap, you know,
for modern peoples.
I mean, I think pagans in a lotof ways were the originators of
.
We don't necessarily believethe same thing, and that's fine,
(06:14):
we can still get along, we canstill have a successful marriage
without being exactly the samein our personal beliefs.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And the idea of, you know, having children for the
sake of, uh, you know,bolstering the numbers of the
church.
I mean, that's that's crazytalk Like that's that's not why
you, that's not a good reason tohave kids.
Um, so I mean, but no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
But yet we still see this behavior in a lot of
religions, sure you know?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
sure, but to me it's like speaking as a priestess.
Right?
It's more important to me thatif a couple comes to me and they
want to get married, that theyhave had ample time together to,
you know, make sure they're notrushing into anything and that
(07:21):
they know each other well enoughthat they're making a good move
, right, like.
It's not like they met threeweeks ago and now they want to
get married because that's justnuts.
So the pain, right, right,right.
So my responsibility as apriestess becomes more about.
(07:42):
Are they entering into thissoundly, you know, have they?
Are they both on the same page?
Do they?
Have they thought about thefuture together?
Have they had ample time to getto know one another and adjust
to life together?
You know, are they acting notfrom a place of impulse but a
(08:03):
place of love and commitment?
And really, outside of that,you know, are they just both
displaying the mental andemotional maturity for a union?
That's it.
Have they like?
Like, if there's, if there arepeople within our temple,
(08:25):
specifically, we might recommendmarital counseling pre, because
that's never a bad idea,whether it be spiritual
counseling or, you know, actualtherapy.
But that's, that's really all I.
I look at you know, right?
Is it just a sound decision forthe two people entering into it
(08:48):
?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, since you mentioned it earlier, even
though we both have been inrelationships where our
significant others are ofdifferent religions, do you
think it's easier when peopleare of the same religion when
getting together?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
are of the same religion when getting together.
Sure, it also depends on thegoals.
It depends on the goals of themarriage, right?
If so many couples nowadaysenter into marriage and they
don't want children?
Kids are not a priority for alot of people anymore.
So if you don't want kids, thencertain aspects of your
(09:29):
relationship, like religion, areless poignant.
To some people they're lessimportant, because it's not
necessary for both partners tobe on the same page.
If there's not a little personthat they're trying to raise in
between two faiths, everybodycan just do their own thing.
(09:49):
If they do want kids, then it'sjust wise to have a plan, right
?
How are you going to go aboutthis?
How are you going to teach thischild or introduce them to one
faith, both faiths?
You know what's.
What's the plan there?
To not create confusion, right,and to create something stable.
(10:11):
But yeah, it is in the sense ofparticipation.
You know like, look, peoplewere pack animals, right.
At the end of the day, wereally are Human beings are just
a form of a pack animal.
We, we like samesies, we likeorder, we like for things to be
(10:34):
the same, and so when you have aspecific religious calendar and
you have rights and things thatyou're following.
You kind of want your partnerto be there.
You want them to you.
(11:05):
You want to feel the solace,the peace.
You want your partner toexperience that as well.
So it can be tough if and whenthere's either a resistance, or
they don't want to participate,or it's not of interest to them,
or you know.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It's traded like you're out there talking to
yourself in the middle of thenight for the fun of it, kind of
.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Kind of, but I mean ironically.
You know, there is the funnything about religion, right, if
we extrapolate, if we pull deityout of the situation and we
pull right some of thespirituality out and we just
look at the actions and we justlook at the things we do, we
(11:53):
look like crazy people I know II'd hate to think what aliens
think of us, right?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
what are these people doing?
Why?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
it reminds me of one of my favorite comedians.
Talks about how if youextrapolate the bride from a
wedding and you just look atwhat the bride by herself, it is
an exercise in madness, right?
This is a grown woman dressingup like a human cupcake.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
To run around for the day going.
I'm a pretty pretty princess.
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I've never gotten over the whole entire concept of
the veil.
Yeah, I mean, like what, youdidn't see her beforehand, I
mean really, I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Well, but again.
But the religious significanceof the veil, what you didn't see
, her beforehand, I mean really.
I mean well, but again.
But the religious significanceof the veil, right, goes way,
way, way, way back.
The religious significance andthe various cultural influences
of the veil, yeah, yeah, they goway back and nobody practices
those anymore.
(13:04):
Nobody, like most people don'teven give a damn.
Now, it's just oh, it's apretty head thing.
Well, I mean that's kind of likemost people go.
You sit there and go.
Why do you jump over the brain?
Yeah, I mean, you ask mostblack couples.
They know the answer to that.
Thank you, yeah, that's thereis the irony, right, tradition
(13:26):
is, it's what there's customs,and that's what weddings have
largely become.
A large portion of what it isis custom and ceremony, but
origin is not always beingadhered to and some people don't
even care, right, they justthey want the pomp and
circumstance.
So, okay, have it.
(13:47):
But yeah, I mean for us, Idon't know.
I think, in the bigger picture,when, when we think about pagan
relationships, we're, you know,as a culture, if we want to look
at it that way, I like to thinkwe're less judgmental.
You know, we don't much care.
(14:10):
We don't.
I mean care is a wrong word,right, it makes us seem like we
don't care.
We don't, but we don't.
We don't care about a lot ofthe same things that other
faiths put so much emphasis on.
We don't care if a couple isquote unquote living in sin, or
if you have a child out ofwedlock.
We don't care about the statusof your virginity.
(14:32):
We don't care about what youchoose to do in the privacy of
your own bedroom.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
We, we just don't, we just don't give a shit, we
don't regulate any of that, infact at the end of the day, if
you don't want somebody in yourbusiness, you sure in the world
don't want to be anybody else's.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Right.
So, but again, for a lot of usthere it's more accepting.
You will be hard pressed inmost instances to find a pagan
who is shocked or surprised bysomeone else's relationship,
status or situation or whateverit is that they do.
I also look at relationshipsmuch the way I look at other
(15:17):
traditions.
Your relationship is yours,it's not mine, right, so I can
easily go well, that's theirrelationship.
If that works for them, that'sfine.
It's not my tradition, butthat's okay.
That's how I view that sort ofthing.
We, we tend not to judge, wetend not to be shocked.
(15:38):
You know, sex is a unto itself,something that we, the majority
of us I mean I can't speak foreverybody, but, right, we tend
to consider it to be a healthything until it isn't right.
Yeah, I mean we just we don'tput a lot of restrictions on
(15:59):
people like that, we don't.
We don't have a lot of hardfast rules about.
You know, a wife must do X or ahusband must do X, Like we
don't Don't think about it.
Well, I think that, ironically,especially now that a lot of
people are, you know, in openmarriages and open relationships
(16:22):
and you have a lot morepolyamory going on, I think some
of my friend group and somepeople that I know were far more
shocked by that, and I think mytime as a pagan kind of made me
go eh, okay.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Well, I mean, I'd put it to you this way for as long
as me and Lord Oswin have beentogether, everybody in the pagan
communities always treated usautomatically as if we were
married.
Yeah, sure, I mean, there wasno question about it.
Yeah, those two were together.
Yeah, so open, accepting thewhole nine yards.
(17:02):
Mm-hmm, you know, there'sreally nothing else to hear
except to sit there and say, hey, what would be your best advice
for someone starting arelationship?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I mean, I feel like it's, but we had to get more
specific than that.
I mean that's too open-ended.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I feel like why Wouldn't you say, like the
biggest thing for relationshipis just communication, just
sitting down and talking to eachother?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, it's, it's communication, it's honesty,
it's not deferring.
You know, those are the biggies.
I just I don't feel like it's ascomplicated as people want to
make it yes, I'd agree with youthere yeah, honestly, I I feel
(17:58):
like if there's anything I'velearned over the years, it's the
idea that If there's anythingI've learned over the years,
it's the idea that expectationdisappointment okay,
disappointment is what happenswhen your expectation is to be
over there, but you're over here, right, yeah, so if your
(18:19):
expectations of your partner arevastly different than the
reality that you are currentlyliving in, right, that's going
to be a recipe for disaster.
But acceptance is key, yeah.
What else?
What do you think?
I mean, it is an interestingtopic, it is I'm realizing it
(18:44):
Coffee Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Now, in our tradition , we have daily activities that
we are required.
Unfortunately, ours is onlymeditation.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
True and required is such a strong word, even as well
.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
And required is such a strong word.
Even as well, I think you knowLife Temple.
We require our neophytes tomeditate daily.
We encourage everyone else to.
It's not, yeah, I wouldn't seeit as a requirement.
We're not, you know, we're notMuslim.
We don't you know.
Yeah, we don't pray five as arequirement.
We're not Muslim, we don't, youknow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We don't pray five times a day.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Toward Magga.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, I mean, I do think that meditative practice
is very important to our faith.
But yeah, I don't know, I'mjust always a little leery of
the required.
I don't know, I'm just always alittle leery of the required.
Where it gets weird, though,you know, is I mean, but that's
just us, I don't.
(19:50):
I don't know about others, Idon't.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, I've always seen there's a difference
between I'm required to do myhomework, but if I'm learning
something on my own and wantingto learn it, I'm more out to do
it, you know.
In other words, if I want to doa prayer in the morning, that
seems to be more spiritual ormore rewarding than I'm required
to pray so many times a day.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I've made my quota Well, but that's just because
that's not your faith ortradition.
You know what I'm saying.
If it was, you might thinkdifferently about it.
I don't think that mostpracticing Muslims see their
daily devotionals as a chore, Ithink, you know.
For them it's, you know, I'msure there's, you know, moments
where you're like, oh geez, I'ma little tired today.
(20:42):
I wish I didn't have to.
But I don't think they see itas a chore.
But for us outside, looking in,of course, it seems that way
We'd be like jeez, this is a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Well, some people say the same thing about us saying
hey, you need to meditate atleast once a day.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I mean look at the Wiccan calendar.
Yeah, at least once a day.
I mean, look at the wickedcalendar.
Yeah, you know, we have somewitches celebrate all the full
moons yes they celebrate all ofthe new moons yes they celebrate
all of the grands, yes, all ofthe lessers.
That's a lot, um.
I mean, if all you do is thefull moons and the eight
(21:27):
Sabbaths, right?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
You're already at 20 individual right.
Right 20 annual celebrations,sometimes 21, if it's right,
because there's often a bluemoon, uh so, and some people
(21:50):
might go.
Well, you know we, you knowother other faiths go to church
weekly.
Yeah sure, some twice a week,some go twice a week, I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think it just depends on that particular
tradition, I mean, but you'renot going to sit there
personally saying somebody hasto do this.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
No.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
We want people to do these things right and we want
to encourage people to do them.
So how do we encourage themwithout making them feel like it
is a chore or task?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
it is a chore task Again.
I just think this is whereeveryone's individual faith
varies.
But I mean, if we're talkingabout faith as a whole, if we're
talking about faith in thegrand scheme, right, not just us
, right, you know, because whenyou say we here, I think you're
using the royal we, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Religion in general.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, it's about seeing the benefit that is
brought to their life, any kind.
(23:08):
When you see the power that ithas and when you see what it can
achieve and you see the growthfrom it, sure it becomes less
chore-like Now this is also whytypically you get them started
as kids.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, Well again, I've known to sit there and
encourage people to do theaffirmations.
This, to me, is still the samething as doing a prayer or
anything else.
It's just you're doing it toyourself, not directly to a
deity or something like that.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I mean many would argue what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, as long as you are taking time out of your day
to be aware of your spiritualself, to honor your spiritual
self, to connect with yourspiritual self.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Right, you're just taking time out of yourself to
have that moment of reverence ofspirituality out of the day.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, but there is also an inner and outer
component here, right, I thinkpagans are a little more aware
of this than other faiths.
Potentially there is a.
There are prayers, offerings,mini rituals that you offer to
(24:33):
the gods, but then there's thethings that you do for yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So it's interesting how I don't know, maybe that's
even an inaccurate way oflooking at it, I'm not sure so
now here's a question for youwhen does one of these daily
practices become more of ahindrance than a help?
Is there a possibility?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
yeah so that's the risk we take when a somebody
starts walking the spiritualplane.
Too damn much Right.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's very easy to fall into sort of a meditative
addiction.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
You want to spend more time there than you do here
.
In our world, there's also umdependency yes there can be a
very strange, you know like analmost dependent sort of like.
I've seen it with divination,right, I've seen it with we've
(25:49):
seen it with.
You know, like, like I can't doanything without consulting the
cards first right yeah you know,I can't, I don't know if I
should buy an avocado or awithout consulting a card yeah,
a lot of indecision of right andlet me ask the gods, it's like,
well, they got better things todo, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
So that's when it starts to become a hindrance.
Let's say, you're trying tostart a daily practice, right,
regardless of what it ismeditating, praying, whatever.
What are some ways to help makethese more of a habit?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Pick a time every day , right, same time, same place.
Make a space, you know, make aspecial little spot for the
purpose of meditation.
I think that it's important to,if need be, set a timer.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Reminders Mm-hmm.
Yeah, Now here's the funny partOn average, once you've done
something, for what?
Three months, it's pretty muchconsidered a habit About that,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
It depends.
There's different views of that, but yes, after after a while,
it just becomes the norm yes,and you no longer need all this
because you're automaticallydoing.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's kind of like getting up and making coffee
first thing in the morning.
Yeah, for sure, I know it's thefirst button I press.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, it's just a habit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And don't even think about it.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Not really Now, when doing these things, when doing
these, is that a better way ofdoing it Doing these things
without actually thinking aboutthem, or taking that moment and
thinking about what you're doingwhile you're doing it?
Should it be more automatic orshould it be more thoughtful?
Because I could see theadvantages of both.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I don't know.
There's again.
What comes to mind is a lot ofMuslim practices regarding daily
devotionals and prayers, and onone hand, what they do can seem
a little complicated, yeah.
(28:11):
But then you also realize, doesthat not add to the ritualness
of it?
The mistake.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
The spirituality, the movement.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Mm-hmm, look, there's something about it that I like,
right, because what they do isbody and mind, right, it's very
in tune and there's a series ofthings that take place and I do
believe that that has a benefit,because it readies the mind, it
(28:46):
readies the body, the spirit,right, it all comes together due
to how specific it is.
It also, let's be honest, it'sa little bit of I almost want to
say it's a little bit of pain,right, it's a little bit of an
inconvenience.
An inconvenience and you knowthe gods enjoy inconveniencing
(29:13):
us.
It's right.
It's like.
To me it's like when we playtug of war with an animal, right
, when I play tug of war with adog, I'm intentionally making
its life a little difficult inthat moment.
It's I'm I'm trying to make itfun, but let's be honest, I'm
also frustrating the dog.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, it's kind of like playing video games on god
mode.
They're not.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
They're only fun for about five or ten minutes, yeah
because, there's no realchallenge there right, it's sort
of the same thing here.
I feel like you know the godsare yeah, of course they want a
little bit of the.
We have to be a tiny bitinconvenienced if we expect to
learn and grow from the processso it shouldn't be like going to
(29:59):
mcdonald's.
No, not really, not really um,and also I think you know, the
older we get, it it's funny,right?
Like again, I look at theMuslim prayer practice and I'm
like man, it's all well and goodwhen you're in your 20s and
your knees are great.
You know, what's it like forgrandpa in his 70s?
(30:22):
He's got to get down on theground and get on his knees.
It's not comfortable, what youknow.
It's not the worst thing in theworld, but it's.
It's not great and there issomething to be said for that.
It is part of the challenge ofa daily devotional, of a
(30:43):
meditation, is to be able to putaside your own discomforts, to
work through them, to still havethat moment with God, and
that's not always easy.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
No, but I don't think we think of these daily
devotional things in the sameway we do ritual devotional
things in the same way we doritual, but technically they are
To some extent there's still aconnection to the divine, to all
this.
So why do we look at thisdifferently than we would?
(31:20):
Ritual?
Because in my head I see I'msort of connected or the same.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I see it as it's a.
It's a little mini piece of it.
Yeah, it's a piece of ritualcircle that you can take with
you every day.
There remains with you.
But is it the same?
No, no, I don't believe that itis.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
You don't see Cause is you don't, mm-mm?
Speaker 3 (31:50):
See because I still believe.
First off, I'm not callingquarters, no, and I'm not
creating an elaborate circle.
I'm not building the temple.
No, you're not you know for mydaily moment.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, my daily moment .
No, yeah, but it's the dailymoment that helps prepare us to
be able to be in the rightheadspace to build ritual space.
Yes, so they are important,they are tied together, but
outside of that, no no, I don't.
(32:28):
I don't see it that way, becauseto me it's just that it's being
able to drop into an almost ameditative state at the drop of
a hat, and we see it a lot.
It gets very frustrating.
We see first degrees especially.
It's very frustrating.
(32:49):
We see first degrees especially.
I feel like they come in and itdoesn't seem to matter how many
times we say drop your baggageat the door, and whatever else
is going still doesn't seem tofail right.
There's always a bit of afrazzled.
There's always a couple ofpeople that are just that,
(33:17):
they're frazzled.
It seems like from the minutethey walk in the door they're
always a bit exasperated.
They're always breathing alittle too heavy.
They're always, you know, just.
It seems like they never relaxRight, and the idea is just that
their daily meditative practiceshould be able to help them to
drop into that space veryquickly upon entering the temple
(33:40):
doors, to be able to thenperform their duties.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, but it doesn't always happen that way.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No, it doesn't yeah.
It'll get wrapped up in theirway.
No, it doesn't yeah.
It'll get wrapped up in theirlives a whole lot easier than we
think they do, which is ironicbecause well and I the time they
(34:11):
step out of that car right,yeah, I mean after fighting
traffic and the whole nine yards, they're a bundle of nerves
versus the person who learns tomeditate in traffic and while
driving they get out of the car.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
they're're fine, they're already ready to go yeah
that's what I used to do when Ihad to travel.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
You know, I would just slip into a meditation
behind the wheel yeah yeah, it'sactually one of my favorite
things to do actually, it seemsto be the best place to do that
sometimes I'm always yeah, Imean, unless you're behind 18
wheelers, then you'll just pulloff when they pull off I mean, I
do find, I always do find thatfunny.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know we're a big fan of the walking, talking
meditation yeah and I thinkpeople are, you know, often
confused about what that means,but it's just that it's it's one
foot in both places, yeah, andit's the ability to let the
creative mind, the imagination,take over.
(35:16):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I thinkthere's just the idea that
rhythmic activity like driving,oh yes, there's a lot of
different ways that people canobtain a meditative state.
They have to, you know, for thepeople that again, who are
sitting there like I can't do it, it takes practice, but
(35:37):
sometimes it's worth trying tomeditate while doing something
that is automatic.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yes, it's easy to get on into a track and go into a
meditative state when you'rejust walking around.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Mopping, sweeping, vacuuming, any of those mowing
the lawn.
Yes, they're all very, they'regreat ways.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Doing the lawn is a whole lot easier, especially
when you're using a lawnmower,because you could sort of use
the vibrations of the lawnmowerto help you.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Absolutely, absolutely, especially when
you're using a lawnmower,because you could sort of use
the vibrations of the lawnmowerto help you, absolutely,
absolutely.
I've done that more than once,yeah, yeah.
So so if the sitting stillthing isn't working for you,
yeah, try it a different way,anything that is a very
repetitive motion, and movementhelps tremendously.
And if all else fails, there'salways Tai Chi.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yes, there is, believe it or not.
Even solitaire can help you dothe same thing.
The card game, the card game.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Technically couldn't any card game.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Technically.
But solitaire is a little biteasier.
You're doing it by yourself inyour own concert.
You're not sitting theredebating or formulating.
That's true, it's my component.
Yeah, that's true, that's true.
Ready for some coffee.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, it's definitely time for more coffee.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
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Speaker 4 (37:22):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
(37:43):
And so it is the end of ourdays.
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'd like to talk about donating and following our
socials of relationships,specifically Because there's a
lot of kinds of relationships.
Well, I'm talking husband wife,Ah, okay, and adults, right,
okay, so significant otherswe're not talking about, like
family members and things likethat, okay.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I want to see Aaron saying in our belief system that
I believe that we tend to wantthe women to make the first move
.
That sort of plays out in ourreligion because the whole
concept of the God chasing afterthe goddess Sure, that keeps on
coming into play in ourreligion over and over again as
she dances around tempting him.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, but I think any
relationship, I mean, obviously,if we go there, that negates,
you know, like same-sex unions,where you'd still have that
dynamic.
Somebody's always kind of thechaser, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know, I believe that we see it as more of a.
It's the woman's priority toinitiate before the guys, even
though the guys might be sittingthere going, hey, I'm here, I'm
here, see me, I'm flirting.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, I got you .
Yeah yeah, that makes sense.
I think pagan women in generaltend to be more forward.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I believe they're the ones that initiate the
relationship.
They're the ones sit down andlook at their significant others
going.
Oh no, this is a relationship,just to let you know.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I think that's the case.
Yeah, but I think that's that'sthe case in a lot of instances,
I think.
Like I said, I think paganwomen are just more forward
because we are not.
Women are just more forwardbecause we are not.
We're more, we're more aware ofour role in the union or in any
(02:32):
type of relationship, as apivotal player, and not just you
know right how, how some faithsview a woman as being the
lesser decision maker.
Yeah, so we do.
We do.
We tend to be more forward, Ithink Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
So what other things does our religion actually say
about relationships that you see, and how we're supposed to
treat each other?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I think it's.
There's very little right inthe way of like hard and fast
rules.
We're not, we don't have thatwhen it when it comes to
marriage or union orrelationships.
But you know, we can alwayslook to the tenants, we can
always look to craft law andfind, I think, meaning in the
(03:23):
way we view self-conduct.
Um, we tend to be a lot more upfront with our partners and we
tend to be a little bit moreblunt, which just comes down to
if, if you can't, if you can'tdepend on me to tell you the
(03:44):
truth, then who can you?
Kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
So there's that element.
I think too, it depends on ifyou want to go down the rabbit
hole of the different traditionswhere you have more stringent
guidelines, like with the Celts,and you know the way they
viewed a union for a year and aday and you know that sort of
(04:11):
thing.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We pretty much do, don't we?
I mean, and the sort of thesociety we live in, I mean,
we're doing this pretty much now, most people live together now,
before they even get married.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
For sure, I mean.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
It's very rare nowadays to get married and
never have and not have livedwith a partner or, you know,
experienced a trial.
You know playing house, so tospeak.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Now I mean but would you encourage people in temple
to get married?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Oh, that's a crazy question, I don't know.
I mean from a religiousstandpoint.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
as priests and priestesses, we want our
religion to grow.
We want our people to getmarried, we want them to have
kids and the whole nine yards.
Is it our job to encourage thisor not to encourage?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm asking the way it used to be.
I mean, oddly right, thefundamentalist view in the
Christian faith.
I don't think it's applicableto us.
You know, so much of whathappens in the Christian faith
(05:31):
is the idea that you have aunion under God, right, you meet
a partner, you have the samefaith or same beliefs.
You have to be on the same pageor you can't get married
effectively.
And then you enter the union,you have children and then you
(05:51):
raise those children in thefaith.
So in a weird way, right, it'sproselytizing within the house,
right, which I think is kind ofcrap, kind of crap, you know,
for modern peoples.
I mean, I think pagans in a lotof ways were the originators of
.
We don't necessarily believethe same thing, and that's fine,
(06:14):
we can still get along, we canstill have a successful marriage
without being exactly the samein our personal beliefs.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
And the idea of, you know, having children for the
sake of, uh, you know,bolstering the numbers of the
church.
I mean, that's that's crazytalk Like that's that's not why
you, that's not a good reason tohave kids.
Um, so I mean, but no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
But yet we still see this behavior in a lot of
religions, sure you know?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
sure, but to me it's like speaking as a priestess.
Right?
It's more important to me thatif a couple comes to me and they
want to get married, that theyhave had ample time together to,
you know, make sure they're notrushing into anything and that
(07:21):
they know each other well enoughthat they're making a good move
, right, like.
It's not like they met threeweeks ago and now they want to
get married because that's justnuts.
So the pain, right, right,right.
So my responsibility as apriestess becomes more about.
(07:42):
Are they entering into thissoundly, you know, have they?
Are they both on the same page?
Do they?
Have they thought about thefuture together?
Have they had ample time to getto know one another and adjust
to life together?
You know, are they acting notfrom a place of impulse but a
(08:03):
place of love and commitment?
And really, outside of that,you know, are they just both
displaying the mental andemotional maturity for a union?
That's it.
Have they like?
Like, if there's, if there arepeople within our temple,
(08:25):
specifically, we might recommendmarital counseling pre, because
that's never a bad idea,whether it be spiritual
counseling or, you know, actualtherapy.
But that's, that's really all I.
I look at you know, right?
Is it just a sound decision forthe two people entering into it
(08:48):
?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, since you mentioned it earlier, even
though we both have been inrelationships where our
significant others are ofdifferent religions, do you
think it's easier when peopleare of the same religion when
getting together?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
are of the same religion when getting together.
Sure, it also depends on thegoals.
It depends on the goals of themarriage, right?
If so many couples nowadaysenter into marriage and they
don't want children?
Kids are not a priority for alot of people anymore.
So if you don't want kids, thencertain aspects of your
(09:29):
relationship, like religion, areless poignant.
To some people they're lessimportant, because it's not
necessary for both partners tobe on the same page.
If there's not a little personthat they're trying to raise in
between two faiths, everybodycan just do their own thing.
(09:49):
If they do want kids, then it'sjust wise to have a plan, right
?
How are you going to go aboutthis?
How are you going to teach thischild or introduce them to one
faith, both faiths?
You know what's.
What's the plan there?
To not create confusion, right,and to create something stable.
(10:11):
But yeah, it is in the sense ofparticipation.
You know like, look, peoplewere pack animals, right.
At the end of the day, wereally are Human beings are just
a form of a pack animal.
We, we like samesies, we likeorder, we like for things to be
(10:34):
the same, and so when you have aspecific religious calendar and
you have rights and things thatyou're following.
You kind of want your partnerto be there.
You want them to you.
(11:05):
You want to feel the solace,the peace.
You want your partner toexperience that as well.
So it can be tough if and whenthere's either a resistance, or
they don't want to participate,or it's not of interest to them,
or you know.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
It's traded like you're out there talking to
yourself in the middle of thenight for the fun of it, kind of
.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Kind of, but I mean ironically.
You know, there is the funnything about religion, right, if
we extrapolate, if we pull deityout of the situation and we
pull right some of thespirituality out and we just
look at the actions and we justlook at the things we do, we
(11:53):
look like crazy people I know II'd hate to think what aliens
think of us, right?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
what are these people doing?
Why?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
it reminds me of one of my favorite comedians.
Talks about how if youextrapolate the bride from a
wedding and you just look atwhat the bride by herself, it is
an exercise in madness, right?
This is a grown woman dressingup like a human cupcake.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
To run around for the day going.
I'm a pretty pretty princess.
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I've never gotten over the whole entire concept of
the veil.
Yeah, I mean, like what, youdidn't see her beforehand, I
mean really, I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Well, but again.
But the religious significanceof the veil, what you didn't see
, her beforehand, I mean really.
I mean well, but again.
But the religious significanceof the veil, right, goes way,
way, way, way back.
The religious significance andthe various cultural influences
of the veil, yeah, yeah, they goway back and nobody practices
those anymore.
(13:04):
Nobody, like most people don'teven give a damn.
Now, it's just oh, it's apretty head thing.
Well, I mean that's kind of likemost people go.
You sit there and go.
Why do you jump over the brain?
Yeah, I mean, you ask mostblack couples.
They know the answer to that.
Thank you, yeah, that's thereis the irony, right, tradition
(13:26):
is, it's what there's customs,and that's what weddings have
largely become.
A large portion of what it isis custom and ceremony, but
origin is not always beingadhered to and some people don't
even care, right, they justthey want the pomp and
circumstance.
So, okay, have it.
(13:47):
But yeah, I mean for us, Idon't know.
I think, in the bigger picture,when, when we think about pagan
relationships, we're, you know,as a culture, if we want to look
at it that way, I like to thinkwe're less judgmental.
You know, we don't much care.
(14:10):
We don't.
I mean care is a wrong word,right, it makes us seem like we
don't care.
We don't, but we don't.
We don't care about a lot ofthe same things that other
faiths put so much emphasis on.
We don't care if a couple isquote unquote living in sin, or
if you have a child out ofwedlock.
We don't care about the statusof your virginity.
(14:32):
We don't care about what youchoose to do in the privacy of
your own bedroom.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
We, we just don't, we just don't give a shit, we
don't regulate any of that, infact at the end of the day, if
you don't want somebody in yourbusiness, you sure in the world
don't want to be anybody else's.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Right.
So, but again, for a lot of usthere it's more accepting.
You will be hard pressed inmost instances to find a pagan
who is shocked or surprised bysomeone else's relationship,
status or situation or whateverit is that they do.
I also look at relationshipsmuch the way I look at other
(15:17):
traditions.
Your relationship is yours,it's not mine, right, so I can
easily go well, that's theirrelationship.
If that works for them, that'sfine.
It's not my tradition, butthat's okay.
That's how I view that sort ofthing.
We, we tend not to judge, wetend not to be shocked.
(15:38):
You know, sex is a unto itself,something that we, the majority
of us I mean I can't speak foreverybody, but, right, we tend
to consider it to be a healthything until it isn't right.
Yeah, I mean we just we don'tput a lot of restrictions on
(15:59):
people like that, we don't.
We don't have a lot of hardfast rules about.
You know, a wife must do X or ahusband must do X, Like we
don't Don't think about it.
Well, I think that, ironically,especially now that a lot of
people are, you know, in openmarriages and open relationships
(16:22):
and you have a lot morepolyamory going on, I think some
of my friend group and somepeople that I know were far more
shocked by that, and I think mytime as a pagan kind of made me
go eh, okay.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Well, I mean, I'd put it to you this way for as long
as me and Lord Oswin have beentogether, everybody in the pagan
communities always treated usautomatically as if we were
married.
Yeah, sure, I mean, there wasno question about it.
Yeah, those two were together.
Yeah, so open, accepting thewhole nine yards.
(17:02):
Mm-hmm, you know, there'sreally nothing else to hear
except to sit there and say, hey, what would be your best advice
for someone starting arelationship?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I mean, I feel like it's, but we had to get more
specific than that.
I mean that's too open-ended.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I feel like why Wouldn't you say, like the
biggest thing for relationshipis just communication, just
sitting down and talking to eachother?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, it's, it's communication, it's honesty,
it's not deferring.
You know, those are the biggies.
I just I don't feel like it's ascomplicated as people want to
make it yes, I'd agree with youthere yeah, honestly, I I feel
(17:58):
like if there's anything I'velearned over the years, it's the
idea that If there's anythingI've learned over the years,
it's the idea that expectationdisappointment okay,
disappointment is what happenswhen your expectation is to be
over there, but you're over here, right, yeah, so if your
(18:19):
expectations of your partner arevastly different than the
reality that you are currentlyliving in, right, that's going
to be a recipe for disaster.
But acceptance is key, yeah.
What else?
What do you think?
I mean, it is an interestingtopic, it is I'm realizing it
(18:44):
Coffee Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Now, in our tradition , we have daily activities that
we are required.
Unfortunately, ours is onlymeditation.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
True and required is such a strong word, even as well
.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yeah, true.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
And required is such a strong word.
Even as well, I think you knowLife Temple.
We require our neophytes tomeditate daily.
We encourage everyone else to.
It's not, yeah, I wouldn't seeit as a requirement.
We're not, you know, we're notMuslim.
We don't you know.
Yeah, we don't pray five as arequirement.
We're not Muslim, we don't, youknow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We don't pray five times a day.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Toward Magga.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, I mean, I do think that meditative practice
is very important to our faith.
But yeah, I don't know, I'mjust always a little leery of
the required.
I don't know, I'm just always alittle leery of the required.
Where it gets weird, though,you know, is I mean, but that's
just us, I don't.
(19:50):
I don't know about others, Idon't.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, I've always seen there's a difference
between I'm required to do myhomework, but if I'm learning
something on my own and wantingto learn it, I'm more out to do
it, you know.
In other words, if I want to doa prayer in the morning, that
seems to be more spiritual ormore rewarding than I'm required
to pray so many times a day.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I've made my quota Well, but that's just because
that's not your faith ortradition.
You know what I'm saying.
If it was, you might thinkdifferently about it.
I don't think that mostpracticing Muslims see their
daily devotionals as a chore, Ithink, you know.
For them it's, you know, I'msure there's, you know, moments
where you're like, oh geez, I'ma little tired today.
(20:42):
I wish I didn't have to.
But I don't think they see itas a chore.
But for us outside, looking in,of course, it seems that way
We'd be like jeez, this is a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Well, some people say the same thing about us saying
hey, you need to meditate atleast once a day.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I mean look at the Wiccan calendar.
Yeah, at least once a day.
I mean, look at the wickedcalendar.
Yeah, you know, we have somewitches celebrate all the full
moons yes they celebrate all ofthe new moons yes they celebrate
all of the grands, yes, all ofthe lessers.
That's a lot, um.
I mean, if all you do is thefull moons and the eight
(21:27):
Sabbaths, right?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
You're already at 20 individual right.
Right 20 annual celebrations,sometimes 21, if it's right,
because there's often a bluemoon, uh so, and some people
(21:50):
might go.
Well, you know we, you knowother other faiths go to church
weekly.
Yeah sure, some twice a week,some go twice a week, I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think it just depends on that particular
tradition, I mean, but you'renot going to sit there
personally saying somebody hasto do this.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
No.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
We want people to do these things right and we want
to encourage people to do them.
So how do we encourage themwithout making them feel like it
is a chore or task?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
it is a chore task Again.
I just think this is whereeveryone's individual faith
varies.
But I mean, if we're talkingabout faith as a whole, if we're
talking about faith in thegrand scheme, right, not just us
, right, you know, because whenyou say we here, I think you're
using the royal we, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Religion in general.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, it's about seeing the benefit that is
brought to their life, any kind.
(23:08):
When you see the power that ithas and when you see what it can
achieve and you see the growthfrom it, sure it becomes less
chore-like Now this is also whytypically you get them started
as kids.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, Well again, I've known to sit there and
encourage people to do theaffirmations.
This, to me, is still the samething as doing a prayer or
anything else.
It's just you're doing it toyourself, not directly to a
deity or something like that.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I mean many would argue what's the difference?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, as long as you are taking time out of your day
to be aware of your spiritualself, to honor your spiritual
self, to connect with yourspiritual self.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Right, you're just taking time out of yourself to
have that moment of reverence ofspirituality out of the day.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, but there is also an inner and outer
component here, right, I thinkpagans are a little more aware
of this than other faiths.
Potentially there is a.
There are prayers, offerings,mini rituals that you offer to
(24:33):
the gods, but then there's thethings that you do for yourself.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So it's interesting how I don't know, maybe that's
even an inaccurate way oflooking at it, I'm not sure so
now here's a question for youwhen does one of these daily
practices become more of ahindrance than a help?
Is there a possibility?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
yeah so that's the risk we take when a somebody
starts walking the spiritualplane.
Too damn much Right.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
It's very easy to fall into sort of a meditative
addiction.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
You want to spend more time there than you do here
.
In our world, there's also umdependency yes there can be a
very strange, you know like analmost dependent sort of like.
I've seen it with divination,right, I've seen it with we've
(25:49):
seen it with.
You know, like, like I can't doanything without consulting the
cards first right yeah you know,I can't, I don't know if I
should buy an avocado or awithout consulting a card yeah,
a lot of indecision of right andlet me ask the gods, it's like,
well, they got better things todo, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
So that's when it starts to become a hindrance.
Let's say, you're trying tostart a daily practice, right,
regardless of what it ismeditating, praying, whatever.
What are some ways to help makethese more of a habit?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Pick a time every day , right, same time, same place.
Make a space, you know, make aspecial little spot for the
purpose of meditation.
I think that it's important to,if need be, set a timer.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Reminders Mm-hmm.
Yeah, Now here's the funny partOn average, once you've done
something, for what?
Three months, it's pretty muchconsidered a habit About that,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
It depends.
There's different views of that, but yes, after after a while,
it just becomes the norm yes,and you no longer need all this
because you're automaticallydoing.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's kind of like getting up and making coffee
first thing in the morning.
Yeah, for sure, I know it's thefirst button I press.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, it's just a habit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And don't even think about it.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Not really Now, when doing these things, when doing
these, is that a better way ofdoing it Doing these things
without actually thinking aboutthem, or taking that moment and
thinking about what you're doingwhile you're doing it?
Should it be more automatic orshould it be more thoughtful?
Because I could see theadvantages of both.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I don't know.
There's again.
What comes to mind is a lot ofMuslim practices regarding daily
devotionals and prayers, and onone hand, what they do can seem
a little complicated, yeah.
(28:11):
But then you also realize, doesthat not add to the ritualness
of it?
The mistake.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
The spirituality, the movement.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Mm-hmm, look, there's something about it that I like,
right, because what they do isbody and mind, right, it's very
in tune and there's a series ofthings that take place and I do
believe that that has a benefit,because it readies the mind, it
(28:46):
readies the body, the spirit,right, it all comes together due
to how specific it is.
It also, let's be honest, it'sa little bit of I almost want to
say it's a little bit of pain,right, it's a little bit of an
inconvenience.
An inconvenience and you knowthe gods enjoy inconveniencing
(29:13):
us.
It's right.
It's like.
To me it's like when we playtug of war with an animal, right
, when I play tug of war with adog, I'm intentionally making
its life a little difficult inthat moment.
It's I'm I'm trying to make itfun, but let's be honest, I'm
also frustrating the dog.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, it's kind of like playing video games on god
mode.
They're not.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
They're only fun for about five or ten minutes, yeah
because, there's no realchallenge there right, it's sort
of the same thing here.
I feel like you know the godsare yeah, of course they want a
little bit of the.
We have to be a tiny bitinconvenienced if we expect to
learn and grow from the processso it shouldn't be like going to
(29:59):
mcdonald's.
No, not really, not really um,and also I think you know, the
older we get, it it's funny,right?
Like again, I look at theMuslim prayer practice and I'm
like man, it's all well and goodwhen you're in your 20s and
your knees are great.
You know, what's it like forgrandpa in his 70s?
(30:22):
He's got to get down on theground and get on his knees.
It's not comfortable, what youknow.
It's not the worst thing in theworld, but it's.
It's not great and there issomething to be said for that.
It is part of the challenge ofa daily devotional, of a
(30:43):
meditation, is to be able to putaside your own discomforts, to
work through them, to still havethat moment with God, and
that's not always easy.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
No, but I don't think we think of these daily
devotional things in the sameway we do ritual devotional
things in the same way we doritual, but technically they are
To some extent there's still aconnection to the divine, to all
this.
So why do we look at thisdifferently than we would?
(31:20):
Ritual?
Because in my head I see I'msort of connected or the same.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I see it as it's a.
It's a little mini piece of it.
Yeah, it's a piece of ritualcircle that you can take with
you every day.
There remains with you.
But is it the same?
No, no, I don't believe that itis.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
You don't see Cause is you don't, mm-mm?
Speaker 3 (31:50):
See because I still believe.
First off, I'm not callingquarters, no, and I'm not
creating an elaborate circle.
I'm not building the temple.
No, you're not you know for mydaily moment.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, my daily moment .
No, yeah, but it's the dailymoment that helps prepare us to
be able to be in the rightheadspace to build ritual space.
Yes, so they are important,they are tied together, but
outside of that, no no, I don't.
(32:28):
I don't see it that way, becauseto me it's just that it's being
able to drop into an almost ameditative state at the drop of
a hat, and we see it a lot.
It gets very frustrating.
We see first degrees especially.
It's very frustrating.
(32:49):
We see first degrees especially.
I feel like they come in and itdoesn't seem to matter how many
times we say drop your baggageat the door, and whatever else
is going still doesn't seem tofail right.
There's always a bit of afrazzled.
There's always a couple ofpeople that are just that,
(33:17):
they're frazzled.
It seems like from the minutethey walk in the door they're
always a bit exasperated.
They're always breathing alittle too heavy.
They're always, you know, just.
It seems like they never relaxRight, and the idea is just that
their daily meditative practiceshould be able to help them to
drop into that space veryquickly upon entering the temple
(33:40):
doors, to be able to thenperform their duties.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, but it doesn't always happen that way.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
No, it doesn't yeah.
It'll get wrapped up in theirway.
No, it doesn't yeah.
It'll get wrapped up in theirlives a whole lot easier than we
think they do, which is ironicbecause well and I the time they
(34:11):
step out of that car right,yeah, I mean after fighting
traffic and the whole nine yards, they're a bundle of nerves
versus the person who learns tomeditate in traffic and while
driving they get out of the car.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
they're're fine, they're already ready to go yeah
that's what I used to do when Ihad to travel.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
You know, I would just slip into a meditation
behind the wheel yeah yeah, it'sactually one of my favorite
things to do actually, it seemsto be the best place to do that
sometimes I'm always yeah, Imean, unless you're behind 18
wheelers, then you'll just pulloff when they pull off I mean, I
do find, I always do find thatfunny.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know we're a big fan of the walking, talking
meditation yeah and I thinkpeople are, you know, often
confused about what that means,but it's just that it's it's one
foot in both places, yeah, andit's the ability to let the
creative mind, the imagination,take over.
(35:16):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I thinkthere's just the idea that
rhythmic activity like driving,oh yes, there's a lot of
different ways that people canobtain a meditative state.
They have to, you know, for thepeople that again, who are
sitting there like I can't do it, it takes practice, but
(35:37):
sometimes it's worth trying tomeditate while doing something
that is automatic.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yes, it's easy to get on into a track and go into a
meditative state when you'rejust walking around.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Mopping, sweeping, vacuuming, any of those mowing
the lawn.
Yes, they're all very, they'regreat ways.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Doing the lawn is a whole lot easier, especially
when you're using a lawnmower,because you could sort of use
the vibrations of the lawnmowerto help you.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Absolutely, absolutely, especially when
you're using a lawnmower,because you could sort of use
the vibrations of the lawnmowerto help you, absolutely,
absolutely.
I've done that more than once,yeah, yeah.
So so if the sitting stillthing isn't working for you,
yeah, try it a different way,anything that is a very
repetitive motion, and movementhelps tremendously.
And if all else fails, there'salways Tai Chi.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yes, there is, believe it or not.
Even solitaire can help you dothe same thing.
The card game, the card game.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Technically couldn't any card game.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Technically.
But solitaire is a little biteasier.
You're doing it by yourself inyour own concert.
You're not sitting theredebating or formulating.
That's true, it's my component.
Yeah, that's true, that's true.
Ready for some coffee.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yeah, it's definitely time for more coffee.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
(37:43):
And so it is the end of ourdays.
So walk with me till morning.
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