November 12, 2025 • 30 mins
Start with a bold claim, add a dash of panic, and mix in a grab bag of unrelated beliefs—what could go wrong? We dig into the arguments behind Pagan Threat and unpack why the “one big pagan conspiracy” collapses the moment you look at how diverse, decentralized, and non-proselytizing most pagan communities actually are.
We talk about how the book blurs pagan practices with Eastern philosophies, then leaps to politics as if religion dictates party. We also get real about optics: social media algorithms boost the loudest stunts, which means curses and hexes trend while quiet blessings and ordinary devotion barely register. That skew alters feeds where the extreme becomes the supposed norm, and critics mistake the feed for the field.
The conversation widens to a practical ethic: defend your path without demeaning someone else’s. We call out Christian-bashing the same way we push back on anti-pagan rhetoric, and we ground our stance in pluralism and the First Amendment. Freedom of conscience isn’t a loophole at the end of a polemic—it’s the starting point for living together with difference. Will this latest panic endure? Probably not. But it’s a useful moment to reset, separate faith from party, and remember that most spiritual life happens off-camera, in seasonal rites, mutual support, and personal practice.
If this resonates, share the episode with a friend, subscribe for next week’s conversation, and leave a quick review so others can find the show. What misconception about your belief—or lack thereof—do you want the world to finally retire?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
So there's a book going around,and I'm pretty sure everybody's
heard of it by now.
It's called Pagan Threat by uhLucas Miles.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
We're not the only one that's done a review of this
book.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
No, we're not.
And uh we have both finallyfinished reading this book.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Trust me, the the eye strain from rolling my eyes
have been enough.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Oh, I know, right?
It's like a workout for youreyes.
We were listening to audio bookstoo.
SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
I I know.
So this guy tries to stir upsome of the old pagan things of
back from the um pagan uh thesatanic panic in the 80s to try
(01:19):
to do some of this.
So I we're gonna I I'd say wesort of ignore some of that
stuff.
It's just so mind-numbinglydumb, some of the stuff that
they've kind of said about us.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Would wouldn't you say?
I mean, even back then it waskind of like, really, y'all,
really?
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Well, I mean, back then there were there really
wasn't a whole lot ofinformation out there about the
pagan path.
And now there's so much more outthere.
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Um still kind of surprises me that um that he
kind of took those same talkingpoints or a lot of the same
talking points from the 80s andran with it.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
Right.
That we're out there trying to,you know, corrupt the whole
entire world and the whole nineyards.
It just it's kind of weird.
Just a little bit.
All right.
Well, because I mean, again, hetaps into the same problem that
I kept on seeing all the time aseither we're this Illuminati big
(02:28):
organization trying to take overthe government and whatever or
the world, or we're just treehugging lunatics out in the
woods.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Well, you know, and I'll admit, you know, there's
there's probably a few of us inin government uh positions, but
I don't think it's like ahostile takeover, or uh, you
know, that we've infiltratedanything.
And so it's actually kind offunny that he would uh think
that at all.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
So I think it's funny because I know nowhere in
any of our religion does it saythat we are supposed to take
over the world, or we're notlike certain other religions
where we're supposed to be theonly religion and the only
correct way of doing things.
It just that philosophy he seemsto glaze over completely that we
(03:22):
don't prophetize or seek outpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah, he never touched on that at all.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
I mean, yeah, we've done advertisement for like the
podcast and stuff like that, butthat's only inside our own
community, not to reach out toother people.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Pretty much.
Well, it's uh I think um any ofthe like any of the Facebook ads
we might have run, those kind ofreach out to whoever.
Um but I don't uh you know wehaven't run a whole bunch of
those, and I don't think thatthat was you know, that was like
purpose, purposeful advertising.
(04:00):
No, like targeting a certaingroup.
SPEAKER_02 (04:02):
Group or anything.
Well, again, been better if wewere able to target a certain
group, but again, we're stillnot trying to take over the
world or anything like that.
Matter of fact, you have to seekus.
We don't go out and seek you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
You you have to contact us.
It's not like we're standing outon all the street corners going,
have you spoke to your goddesslately?
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Right.
And we're certainly not lookingthrough, you know, some type of
phone book or whatever and justmaking random phone calls to
people either.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
So Right.
You know.
Again, we're not out thereprophetizing.
So no, we're not.
What now the next strange thinghe did was he kept on.
Now, to us, we're all there'scertain things that he talked
about that are separatereligions as far as we're
concerned or beliefs.
You know, uh we're not fromAsia, we don't follow Buddhism
(04:53):
or any of these other religions,but yet he keeps on wrapping
those up into ours.
And we don't always share commonthreads with all these
religions.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
No, I think I think that comes from uh the
perspective that if it's notChristianity, then it's pagan.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
Then it's all the same.
Again, to them, it's all thesame thing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
Right, it's all heathenry.
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
You know, I mean, that'd be me sitting there
going, well, you know, you gotyou got you know, Christianity,
uh, Muslims, and well, the Jews,and uh, they're all Amahammer
religious, they're just all thesame.
So whatever.
It's me doing the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
So again, yeah, it is.
And you can't realistically, youcan't lump everybody into one
category.
Like that.
SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
Right, you know, because uh trust me, I know a
lot of Southern Baptists whowould not get along with
Catholics whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
Very true, very true.
True.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
I'm just saying, all right.
And then they then they throwthe atheists in on there on top,
and I'm like, okay, that makesno sense because they have no
belief whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Well, it doesn't make sense to us, but to them,
again, if you're not a ChristianI know you're you're lumped into
one category with everybodyelse.
SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
But again, even the atheists think we're just as
nutty as the damn Christians forbelieving in some of this stuff.
Uh yeah.
So uh come on, make it makesense.
Could you done a little bit moreresearch?
You know.
Yeah, I mean, he could have.
I mean, uh, you know, I see thisis where this whole pagan threat
(06:38):
starts to fall apart for me.
I'm like, really?
Because there are times wherethey'll sit there and they'll
go, oh, you're godless, andblah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, it we got gods,and the atheists don't believe
in gods, and Buddhists believein something like a god, but not
a god.
And right.
I just what are you talking?
You know, you want to sit thereagain, you're rolling your eyes.
(07:03):
And then to make it all worse,he wants to attack certain
political views.
Yes.
And associate it directly withus.
You know, again, we we have thisproblem.
Uh okay, so again, does thatmean all Christians or Abrahamic
religions are we're allconservative and only us pagans
(07:25):
or liberals is sort of how hedivides this up, and that don't
make no sense because these arepolitical ideologies.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Right.
And even in well, even for him,I mean, it's just like you said,
are really are all Christiansconservatives?
No, they're not.
No, no, some are libertarians.
Right.
I know quite a few who areliberals, you know, left
wingarians.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
Right.
You know, and we have the samething.
There are some pagans that areconservative, there are some
that are libertarian, and yes,there are some that are liberal
and that far left wing, and yes,and we even have some that
believe that socialism is theanswer to everything.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
You know, and that's their political belief.
SPEAKER_02 (08:12):
We can't well beliefs, and I'm I'm not fussing
about, I'm just meaning we havejust as much of a gamut as they
do on that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
So well, sure, you know, and I I I kind of get I
don't know if I'd properly sayoffended, but I'm surprised that
he's trying to lump it all intoone category, or it seems like
he is anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (08:36):
Yes.
Well, I mean, he he he tends to,I'll, you know, again, over and
over again, we're all the same,but it it does bother me because
he sort of when you're readingthe book, he sort of jumps all
over the place.
One minute he's talking about apagan concept, then in the very
next paragraph, he's talkingabout an Eastern philosophy.
And I'm like, okay, these twohave nothing to do with each
(08:58):
other, but he's sort of bumpingthem together as if they do.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
And I think that's just lack of knowledge, uh, a
narrow-minded perspective,maybe.
Um, and I'm not trying to namecall or anything, I'm just
trying to sort it out, find somereason behind it.
I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
I I I don't either, so any was there anything
specific about the in in thebook that grabbed your
attention?
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Well, I I mean it was it's it's a lot of the stuff
that we've been talking about.
I found it kind of ironic thathe was trying to pull everybody
together and say we need tostand on these unified standards
(09:53):
and we need to quit bickeringabout individual differences
about the way we believe.
Among the Christians andallowing for those differences
to take place, but he he tookthis staunch stance that
anything outside of Christianityin its various forms is
(10:18):
something that needs to be.
I don't know if I'd sayeradicated, I think that's a
little too militant for what hewas talking about, but pretty
much the yeah, pretty much that,that it was it just yeah, it
needs to be stamped out.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Again, just like most of these religions do.
You know, you know, I I hate tobe this way.
The Muslims basically do thesame way.
They believe they should be theonly religion.
You know, Christianities believethey should be the only that
that they are right and youshould follow that.
You know, I which I find itfunny because when me and you
(10:59):
talk or we talk to other people,there are some Christian
concepts we don't necessarilyhave a problem with.
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:06):
We're kind of like, okay, that's that's cool, that
makes sense.
You know, I can understand it.
I mean, I don't don't agree withthe whole entire Bible, but come
on.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
I mean, overall, the Christian religion is uh it's a
beautiful thing.
It can be.
It's you know, it's the peoplewho have done things to it that
make it not so beautiful.
SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
Well, I mean, again, I you know, I I can't sit there
and say, you know, the paganreligions over in the past
haven't done horrible things,but right.
I can't sit there and sayChristians didn't do horrible
things either.
I you know, religions have beenaround long enough we've all got
a little bit of blood on ourhands.
SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say.
I think we've all done somethings, well, not us
particularly, but those in ourpast.
Right.
I I think they've all done alittle something, something that
was not ideal or wasn't morallyright, or maybe.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Well, at the time it seemed more well at the time,
and they thought it was morallyright, and it, you know, the
crusades, they thought that wasmorally right, you know.
Uh, there's some instances ofsome of the stuff that the
pagans did in the past, youknow, how many civilizations?
I mean, Rome.
What all did Rome do?
(12:32):
What all did pagan Rome do?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
Just saying.
You know, all the invasions andtaking of territories and the
slaughtering of people.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
I mean, you know, well, I mean, I I would say
enslavement, but the whole worldback then did slavery, so at
some point or another.
Yeah.
So again, it's not a modernconcept.
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
No, not at all.
SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
Per se.
But now don't get me wrong.
Now there are some hot takeshere.
All right, that I do rememberfrom the book and where Roe v.
Way got overturned.
And yes, there were a lot ofvideos of pagan people or pagan
personalities out there tellingpeople how to do abortion
(13:18):
rituals and all this otherstuff.
And and yes, there were some outthere cursing certain candid
political candidates and allthis, but on the other hand, I
also remember seeing some doingit the other way around.
Right.
There were some bitches outthere going, no, no, no, we need
to protect this president, blah,blah, blah, or this candidate.
(13:40):
We're gonna do spells to helpand not harm.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Those didn't get publicized as much.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
No, but it was funny how in the world they ignored
those.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
Well, it that goes back to let no one speak evil of
your good.
Right.
Um to to some extent, or youknow, no one let no one speak
evil of your deeds, I think is ais a better interpretation at
this point.
Because when you throw stuff outthere and oh, we're just gonna
(14:17):
do this random ritual, and youknow, we're gonna we're gonna
hex this person or we're gonnahex that, and you're putting
that stuff out there, you aregiving those that impression.
Well, you're giving thatimpression, but you're giving
people like Mr.
Miles ammunition.
SPEAKER_02 (14:35):
Yes, you are, because that's the only thing
they're gonna see.
That's the only thing they'regonna look at.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Because when it kind when it comes to social media,
we all sort of can fall into anecho chamber and oh absolutely
all this other stuff, and onlysee what we want to see and not
see a bigger, broader picture.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Well, and and and that's the other thing with
social media, is once you startlooking at something in
particular, the algorithm picksup on that and starts showing
you more of that type ofmaterial.
So when you start seeing allthis, you know, you know,
abortion rituals and stuff likethat, it's gonna stuff like
(15:16):
that's gonna start popping up.
So that's all you're gonna see.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
Right.
I mean, I because I trust me, II've heard you get mad at me
because I've sent you a videoout of context of what you
normally watch, and then you'relike not gonna put up with it in
my feed for the next threemonths.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
Right.
But yeah, I mean, it's it, Imean, that's just the way it
happens.
And again, you're giving themammunition.
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
Yeah.
So again, we we should put ourbest foot forward.
I mean, it it's not like we'realways seen in the best light to
begin with.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
No, no, there's uh all right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
And and and again, people out there doing that.
I mean, that's that's kind oflike that whole entire thing,
which drives me up the wild, iseither were the Illuminati
taking over the world or we'retree huggers.
I it just make it make sense.
SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
Yeah, there's nothing in between.
There's no there's no middleground, right?
There's no scale, it's eitherone or the other.
SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
One or the other.
And you know, I'm sorry, we didnot create Halloween, we did not
create all this stuff that theyblame us for.
We it's just there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Yeah, so again, it still never makes any sense to
me.
But now, toward the end of thebook, he did finally start to
talk about the fact of the FirstAmendment.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Which I have to give him credit for.
I just wish he'd done it sooner.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Well, I wish he would have done it at the
beginning of the book because hehe puts it there on the end,
basically saying, now we can'tdo nothing legally or anything
to actually stop them but to begood soldiers of God and teach
our kids not to do this stuffand try our best to I don't know
(16:58):
how to put that, um, outlive us.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
That's not a bad way to put it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
You know, hoping that they have more Christian
kids that won't and we'll justslowly die off or whatever, but
you know, or the pagans havekids they'll convert us and
right.
You know, so I and I don't Ikind of wonder when he got to
that point.
I was kind of like, are youtrying to cover your own ass
here?
(17:28):
Did you get to the end of thisbook and go, you know, we do
have some rather rambunctiouspeople in our group sometimes.
And I would hate to suddenly getaccused of, well, the motivation
for this hate crime against thischurch or this religion or this
one of these pagan religion wasmy book.
(17:49):
And going out, oh no, no,they're trying to destroy our
country and our way of life, andthey're all commies and blah
blah.
Huh?
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
Yeah.
So I mean, because uh it doesseem like it was uh pretty much
a uh a disclaimer of sorts, justso that it just so that he can
say, well, it's in there.
There I did not encourage thisbehavior, but yeah, you kinda
did.
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
I kinda did.
You know, you know, I reallythought we were starting to get
past this type of behavior inour society that people were
like, okay, maybe this some ofthis paganism isn't as bad as we
think it is.
It's just the way they want tobelieve and live and let live,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
Yeah.
Well, I think for the most partwe are.
But there's I mean, there'salways gonna be extremists.
There's always gonna be thosethose people that you know do
see us as a threat.
Which, you know, I hate to sayit, we're the furthest thing
from a threat because we wetolerate everybody's beliefs.
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
Well, I mean, don't don't get me wrong, it it is
it's not like I haven't heardsome Christian bashing out there
myself from the pagan community.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Well, that's true.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
All right, so again, I mean, this is one of the
reasons I kind of like relagainst that because we don't
need to.
We don't have to.
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
No, I mean it and the way we we teach in our in
our temple, our coven, is uh wedon't tolerate that.
No, it's not we we teach themthat it's not something that we
should be doing.
Everybody is entitled to theirown belief, right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
And their way of every path is valid.
SPEAKER_01 (19:44):
Right.
Their way of practicing theirfaith, all of that, that's their
business.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Because at the end of the day, I mean, I don't I
don't know, I can't speak forall pagans, they could speak for
me.
I I don't want to seeChristianity disappear.
I don't want to see any of theseother religions disappear
because I think we needreligion.
Right.
I think we all need religion.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Well, you've said it before, it's like a pair of
shoes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
Yeah, you just gotta find the right pair.
So, you know, you just gottafind the right religion for you.
I don't I don't think everybodywas born to necessarily be
Christian or everybody was bornto be Muslim, or you know, it
just it doesn't all fit one niceneat package all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
All right.
I'll take it a step further.
I don't I don't think thateverybody was meant to be
spiritual.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Um, and I think that's what that's what makes
this world a a better place, isbecause we've got so many
different ideas about how thingswork and you know, whether or
not we're spiritual beings oranything else.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
I mean, well, I mean, I think our only complaint
for a lot of these is we don'twant you to, we're not forcing
our religion or our beliefs onyou, quit forcing yours on ours,
on us.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (21:02):
But yet we turn around and every time it it is
over and over.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.
Y'all just haven't, we just needto preach a little bit harder.
We just need No.
What makes you at what point dowe have to look at y'all going,
we don't care?
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
You know, I I'm sorry, I've been to gathers and
other things where we've hadprotesters and stuff.
I don't don't talk to them.
Let them do their thing anddon't talk to them.
And it doesn't, there's no skinoff my nose.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
No, of course not.
Just let them do their thing,just like you said, and just
ignore them.
Keep going, go have your fun.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
If you're if you are secure in your belief, what does
it matter?
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
It really doesn't.
You know when it boils when youboil it down to that, it doesn't
matter.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Right.
It doesn't.
So so why do it?
Why because I don't want to sitthere and go, okay, don't bash
Christians because we're betterthan them or you you with me?
That's not the stance here.
It's just it's a different wayof thinking.
You don't want your religionbashed.
Why should we bash anybodyelse's?
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
You know, I hate to be this way, let's use the
Christians' own words.
Treat others as you want to betreated.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Right.
Do unto others as you would havethem do unto you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
So again, what is this?
You know, what why can't y'allhold this?
We do.
Well, I don't want to say all ofpaganism, but you know, I know
some of us do.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
I still never understood that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
I you know, I don't know.
It makes no sense to me either.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
So is it this that we're that different or bizarre?
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Could be.
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
I mean, people accuse us of that all the time,
so I mean, I d don't get mewrong, we may have a number of
people that are a little bitmore off the beaten track, a
little bit more alternativelifestyles than most.
And that's fine.
(23:11):
I but so what?
I mean, these people needreligion just like everybody
else does.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Sure.
I don't know.
Anything else you um would letme let me ask you, do you think
do you think this is uh justlike a one-off?
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
Yeah, really, I think it is.
Do you mean that it's prettymuch it's popular now, but it's
gonna dwindle away and well itbecame popular because Charlie
Kirk wrote the Ford for it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
Very true.
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
Okay.
And again, and I've heard acouple of pagans do this, but
Charlie Kirk did not write thebook.
He just wrote the Ford.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Again, not completely happy about that, but
his death caused it to becomemore popular.
Right.
All right, because it was one ofthe last Fords he wrote for a
book, I think, before he wasassassinated.
So, but I really don't think itis.
I think there's a whole lotbigger mess for the whole world
(24:15):
to worry about or the wholecountry to worry about right now
than this little pagans who canbarely get ourselves organized
on a you know daily basis.
Right.
I mean, you know, trying totrying to organize pagans to do
anything like herding cats.
I mean a lot of times it is.
(24:36):
Yeah.
You gotta have a lot ofpatience.
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
A lot of patience and some extra hands.
SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
God, yes.
And how in the world are wesupposed to take over the world,
but we can't barely organizerituals sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
I get it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Yeah, I mean, come on.
So now at the end, I I don'tthink this is gonna amount to
too much.
I think it's gonna, everybody'sgonna read it, it's gonna sort
of fade off into the ground.
Matter of fact, I've matteredhere lately, since we're doing
this now, I've seen less andless people even talking about
this book.
Now, I did I did go back andread some of the comments um
(25:19):
that some people have made, andthere were some Christians that
were sitting back going, this isgarbage.
This is not what these peopledo, and this is calling out some
of the same stuff we do.
We we have here interesting, youknow, that that this should not
be part of Christianity and weshouldn't be going down this
path.
This is just some people evenaccused him of just trying to do
(25:41):
a uh money grab.
Wow.
On there, that it was justthat's all this was was a big
old flash in the pan to go, ooh,hey, I'm gonna scare everybody
while this while everybody'salready in an uproar.
SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
I mean, could have been.
Could have been.
I mean, and and uh the timingcouldn't have been better for
that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
So you know, well, I don't think that's what it is.
I really believe this man, thispastor actually believes this is
what's going on.
You know, I I don't I don'tthink I I do not see this pastor
ever coming on the podcast likeours or any of the others and
actually debating it with us.
SPEAKER_01 (26:24):
Yeah, no, I don't either.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
You know, especially in a civil way or anything like
that.
I just I don't see thathappening.
Because apparently he couldn'teven take enough time to realize
how different and how variousour traditions are and beliefs,
how much variety there is.
I yeah, how much variety we havein the pagan community in
(26:50):
beliefs and belief systems, youknow, that fall under that big I
mean because the pagan term is abig umbrella.
SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
It's very big.
Because the original definitionthat we we remember from the old
old dictionaries was it wasanybody who did not believe in
the birth.
Birth, death, and resurrection.
And then the so don't get mewrong, it's changed over the
(27:20):
years, but which now excludeseverybody except for
Christianity.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Pretty much, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
So again, I also gotta ask what definition of
pagan is he using because again,it is a very big umbrella term,
and no, we don't all share thesame beliefs and thoughts and
no, and and I'll say this too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Um, I'm kind of surprised with the amount of
information that's out thereregarding so many different uh
variations of paganism that hedidn't do more research.
Or maybe he did and he just consmisconstrued all the information
that he read.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Or I think he cherry-picked what he wanted.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Well, maybe.
SPEAKER_02 (28:06):
You know, uh he he saw the he saw the inform again,
just like you know, the peoplethat went out there and did the
curses to curse Trump and didnot go look to see our wit which
is going out there blessingTrump to or doing protective
spells.
And there were.
But again, like you said, youdidn't see about that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
So no, you didn't see that a whole lot.
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
You know, doing no searches on the internet, you
know, depending on the way youword stuff, you'll get a certain
you can get a certain answerthat you won't.
Absolutely.
So it sort of saddens me to seethat we're even that the
somebody's even trying to bringthis stuff back up.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
I know, yeah, it's it's a sad situation, I think.
And I I do wish we could sitdown and have a conversation
with this man and just changehis mind, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
I doubt that will ever happen, but you know or
somebody.
And I'm not sure somebody.
I I I might not be smart enoughto do this, but you know, it'd
be nice to see if somebody coulddebate him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Yeah, it would be nice.
So you ready for some coffee?
Yeah, let's get some morecoffee.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pegan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary.
Please visit us at lifetempleseminary.org for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(29:39):
Discord, Twitter, YouTube, andReddit.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
We travel down the stroden path, the maze of stone
in my eye.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya deal blazing piece.
And so it is the end of myday's.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
(30:06):
our day.
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
So there's a book going around,and I'm pretty sure everybody's
heard of it by now.
It's called Pagan Threat by uhLucas Miles.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
We're not the only one that's done a review of this
book.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
No, we're not.
And uh we have both finallyfinished reading this book.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Trust me, the the eye strain from rolling my eyes
have been enough.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Oh, I know, right?
It's like a workout for youreyes.
We were listening to audio bookstoo.
SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
I I know.
So this guy tries to stir upsome of the old pagan things of
back from the um pagan uh thesatanic panic in the 80s to try
(01:19):
to do some of this.
So I we're gonna I I'd say wesort of ignore some of that
stuff.
It's just so mind-numbinglydumb, some of the stuff that
they've kind of said about us.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Would wouldn't you say?
I mean, even back then it waskind of like, really, y'all,
really?
SPEAKER_01 (01:36):
Well, I mean, back then there were there really
wasn't a whole lot ofinformation out there about the
pagan path.
And now there's so much more outthere.
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Um still kind of surprises me that um that he
kind of took those same talkingpoints or a lot of the same
talking points from the 80s andran with it.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
Right.
That we're out there trying to,you know, corrupt the whole
entire world and the whole nineyards.
It just it's kind of weird.
Just a little bit.
All right.
Well, because I mean, again, hetaps into the same problem that
I kept on seeing all the time aseither we're this Illuminati big
(02:28):
organization trying to take overthe government and whatever or
the world, or we're just treehugging lunatics out in the
woods.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Well, you know, and I'll admit, you know, there's
there's probably a few of us inin government uh positions, but
I don't think it's like ahostile takeover, or uh, you
know, that we've infiltratedanything.
And so it's actually kind offunny that he would uh think
that at all.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
So I think it's funny because I know nowhere in
any of our religion does it saythat we are supposed to take
over the world, or we're notlike certain other religions
where we're supposed to be theonly religion and the only
correct way of doing things.
It just that philosophy he seemsto glaze over completely that we
(03:22):
don't prophetize or seek outpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Yeah, he never touched on that at all.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
I mean, yeah, we've done advertisement for like the
podcast and stuff like that, butthat's only inside our own
community, not to reach out toother people.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Pretty much.
Well, it's uh I think um any ofthe like any of the Facebook ads
we might have run, those kind ofreach out to whoever.
Um but I don't uh you know wehaven't run a whole bunch of
those, and I don't think thatthat was you know, that was like
purpose, purposeful advertising.
(04:00):
No, like targeting a certaingroup.
SPEAKER_02 (04:02):
Group or anything.
Well, again, been better if wewere able to target a certain
group, but again, we're stillnot trying to take over the
world or anything like that.
Matter of fact, you have to seekus.
We don't go out and seek you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
You you have to contact us.
It's not like we're standing outon all the street corners going,
have you spoke to your goddesslately?
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Right.
And we're certainly not lookingthrough, you know, some type of
phone book or whatever and justmaking random phone calls to
people either.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
So Right.
You know.
Again, we're not out thereprophetizing.
So no, we're not.
What now the next strange thinghe did was he kept on.
Now, to us, we're all there'scertain things that he talked
about that are separatereligions as far as we're
concerned or beliefs.
You know, uh we're not fromAsia, we don't follow Buddhism
(04:53):
or any of these other religions,but yet he keeps on wrapping
those up into ours.
And we don't always share commonthreads with all these
religions.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
No, I think I think that comes from uh the
perspective that if it's notChristianity, then it's pagan.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
Then it's all the same.
Again, to them, it's all thesame thing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
Right, it's all heathenry.
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
You know, I mean, that'd be me sitting there
going, well, you know, you gotyou got you know, Christianity,
uh, Muslims, and well, the Jews,and uh, they're all Amahammer
religious, they're just all thesame.
So whatever.
It's me doing the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
So again, yeah, it is.
And you can't realistically, youcan't lump everybody into one
category.
Like that.
SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
Right, you know, because uh trust me, I know a
lot of Southern Baptists whowould not get along with
Catholics whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
Very true, very true.
True.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
I'm just saying, all right.
And then they then they throwthe atheists in on there on top,
and I'm like, okay, that makesno sense because they have no
belief whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Well, it doesn't make sense to us, but to them,
again, if you're not a ChristianI know you're you're lumped into
one category with everybodyelse.
SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
But again, even the atheists think we're just as
nutty as the damn Christians forbelieving in some of this stuff.
Uh yeah.
So uh come on, make it makesense.
Could you done a little bit moreresearch?
You know.
Yeah, I mean, he could have.
I mean, uh, you know, I see thisis where this whole pagan threat
(06:38):
starts to fall apart for me.
I'm like, really?
Because there are times wherethey'll sit there and they'll
go, oh, you're godless, andblah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, it we got gods,and the atheists don't believe
in gods, and Buddhists believein something like a god, but not
a god.
And right.
I just what are you talking?
You know, you want to sit thereagain, you're rolling your eyes.
(07:03):
And then to make it all worse,he wants to attack certain
political views.
Yes.
And associate it directly withus.
You know, again, we we have thisproblem.
Uh okay, so again, does thatmean all Christians or Abrahamic
religions are we're allconservative and only us pagans
(07:25):
or liberals is sort of how hedivides this up, and that don't
make no sense because these arepolitical ideologies.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Right.
And even in well, even for him,I mean, it's just like you said,
are really are all Christiansconservatives?
No, they're not.
No, no, some are libertarians.
Right.
I know quite a few who areliberals, you know, left
wingarians.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:52):
Right.
You know, and we have the samething.
There are some pagans that areconservative, there are some
that are libertarian, and yes,there are some that are liberal
and that far left wing, and yes,and we even have some that
believe that socialism is theanswer to everything.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
You know, and that's their political belief.
SPEAKER_02 (08:12):
We can't well beliefs, and I'm I'm not fussing
about, I'm just meaning we havejust as much of a gamut as they
do on that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
So well, sure, you know, and I I I kind of get I
don't know if I'd properly sayoffended, but I'm surprised that
he's trying to lump it all intoone category, or it seems like
he is anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (08:36):
Yes.
Well, I mean, he he he tends to,I'll, you know, again, over and
over again, we're all the same,but it it does bother me because
he sort of when you're readingthe book, he sort of jumps all
over the place.
One minute he's talking about apagan concept, then in the very
next paragraph, he's talkingabout an Eastern philosophy.
And I'm like, okay, these twohave nothing to do with each
(08:58):
other, but he's sort of bumpingthem together as if they do.
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
And I think that's just lack of knowledge, uh, a
narrow-minded perspective,maybe.
Um, and I'm not trying to namecall or anything, I'm just
trying to sort it out, find somereason behind it.
I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
I I I don't either, so any was there anything
specific about the in in thebook that grabbed your
attention?
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
Well, I I mean it was it's it's a lot of the stuff
that we've been talking about.
I found it kind of ironic thathe was trying to pull everybody
together and say we need tostand on these unified standards
(09:53):
and we need to quit bickeringabout individual differences
about the way we believe.
Among the Christians andallowing for those differences
to take place, but he he tookthis staunch stance that
anything outside of Christianityin its various forms is
(10:18):
something that needs to be.
I don't know if I'd sayeradicated, I think that's a
little too militant for what hewas talking about, but pretty
much the yeah, pretty much that,that it was it just yeah, it
needs to be stamped out.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Again, just like most of these religions do.
You know, you know, I I hate tobe this way.
The Muslims basically do thesame way.
They believe they should be theonly religion.
You know, Christianities believethey should be the only that
that they are right and youshould follow that.
You know, I which I find itfunny because when me and you
(10:59):
talk or we talk to other people,there are some Christian
concepts we don't necessarilyhave a problem with.
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:06):
We're kind of like, okay, that's that's cool, that
makes sense.
You know, I can understand it.
I mean, I don't don't agree withthe whole entire Bible, but come
on.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
I mean, overall, the Christian religion is uh it's a
beautiful thing.
It can be.
It's you know, it's the peoplewho have done things to it that
make it not so beautiful.
SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
Well, I mean, again, I you know, I I can't sit there
and say, you know, the paganreligions over in the past
haven't done horrible things,but right.
I can't sit there and sayChristians didn't do horrible
things either.
I you know, religions have beenaround long enough we've all got
a little bit of blood on ourhands.
SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say.
I think we've all done somethings, well, not us
particularly, but those in ourpast.
Right.
I I think they've all done alittle something, something that
was not ideal or wasn't morallyright, or maybe.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Well, at the time it seemed more well at the time,
and they thought it was morallyright, and it, you know, the
crusades, they thought that wasmorally right, you know.
Uh, there's some instances ofsome of the stuff that the
pagans did in the past, youknow, how many civilizations?
I mean, Rome.
What all did Rome do?
(12:32):
What all did pagan Rome do?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
Just saying.
You know, all the invasions andtaking of territories and the
slaughtering of people.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
I mean, you know, well, I mean, I I would say
enslavement, but the whole worldback then did slavery, so at
some point or another.
Yeah.
So again, it's not a modernconcept.
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
No, not at all.
SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
Per se.
But now don't get me wrong.
Now there are some hot takeshere.
All right, that I do rememberfrom the book and where Roe v.
Way got overturned.
And yes, there were a lot ofvideos of pagan people or pagan
personalities out there tellingpeople how to do abortion
(13:18):
rituals and all this otherstuff.
And and yes, there were some outthere cursing certain candid
political candidates and allthis, but on the other hand, I
also remember seeing some doingit the other way around.
Right.
There were some bitches outthere going, no, no, no, we need
to protect this president, blah,blah, blah, or this candidate.
(13:40):
We're gonna do spells to helpand not harm.
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Those didn't get publicized as much.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
No, but it was funny how in the world they ignored
those.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
Well, it that goes back to let no one speak evil of
your good.
Right.
Um to to some extent, or youknow, no one let no one speak
evil of your deeds, I think is ais a better interpretation at
this point.
Because when you throw stuff outthere and oh, we're just gonna
(14:17):
do this random ritual, and youknow, we're gonna we're gonna
hex this person or we're gonnahex that, and you're putting
that stuff out there, you aregiving those that impression.
Well, you're giving thatimpression, but you're giving
people like Mr.
Miles ammunition.
SPEAKER_02 (14:35):
Yes, you are, because that's the only thing
they're gonna see.
That's the only thing they'regonna look at.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Because when it kind when it comes to social media,
we all sort of can fall into anecho chamber and oh absolutely
all this other stuff, and onlysee what we want to see and not
see a bigger, broader picture.
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
Well, and and and that's the other thing with
social media, is once you startlooking at something in
particular, the algorithm picksup on that and starts showing
you more of that type ofmaterial.
So when you start seeing allthis, you know, you know,
abortion rituals and stuff likethat, it's gonna stuff like
(15:16):
that's gonna start popping up.
So that's all you're gonna see.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
Right.
I mean, I because I trust me, II've heard you get mad at me
because I've sent you a videoout of context of what you
normally watch, and then you'relike not gonna put up with it in
my feed for the next threemonths.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
Right.
But yeah, I mean, it's it, Imean, that's just the way it
happens.
And again, you're giving themammunition.
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
Yeah.
So again, we we should put ourbest foot forward.
I mean, it it's not like we'realways seen in the best light to
begin with.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
No, no, there's uh all right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
And and and again, people out there doing that.
I mean, that's that's kind oflike that whole entire thing,
which drives me up the wild, iseither were the Illuminati
taking over the world or we'retree huggers.
I it just make it make sense.
SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
Yeah, there's nothing in between.
There's no there's no middleground, right?
There's no scale, it's eitherone or the other.
SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
One or the other.
And you know, I'm sorry, we didnot create Halloween, we did not
create all this stuff that theyblame us for.
We it's just there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Yeah, so again, it still never makes any sense to
me.
But now, toward the end of thebook, he did finally start to
talk about the fact of the FirstAmendment.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Which I have to give him credit for.
I just wish he'd done it sooner.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Well, I wish he would have done it at the
beginning of the book because hehe puts it there on the end,
basically saying, now we can'tdo nothing legally or anything
to actually stop them but to begood soldiers of God and teach
our kids not to do this stuffand try our best to I don't know
(16:58):
how to put that, um, outlive us.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
That's not a bad way to put it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
You know, hoping that they have more Christian
kids that won't and we'll justslowly die off or whatever, but
you know, or the pagans havekids they'll convert us and
right.
You know, so I and I don't Ikind of wonder when he got to
that point.
I was kind of like, are youtrying to cover your own ass
here?
(17:28):
Did you get to the end of thisbook and go, you know, we do
have some rather rambunctiouspeople in our group sometimes.
And I would hate to suddenly getaccused of, well, the motivation
for this hate crime against thischurch or this religion or this
one of these pagan religion wasmy book.
(17:49):
And going out, oh no, no,they're trying to destroy our
country and our way of life, andthey're all commies and blah
blah.
Huh?
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
Yeah.
So I mean, because uh it doesseem like it was uh pretty much
a uh a disclaimer of sorts, justso that it just so that he can
say, well, it's in there.
There I did not encourage thisbehavior, but yeah, you kinda
did.
SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
I kinda did.
You know, you know, I reallythought we were starting to get
past this type of behavior inour society that people were
like, okay, maybe this some ofthis paganism isn't as bad as we
think it is.
It's just the way they want tobelieve and live and let live,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
Yeah.
Well, I think for the most partwe are.
But there's I mean, there'salways gonna be extremists.
There's always gonna be thosethose people that you know do
see us as a threat.
Which, you know, I hate to sayit, we're the furthest thing
from a threat because we wetolerate everybody's beliefs.
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
Well, I mean, don't don't get me wrong, it it is
it's not like I haven't heardsome Christian bashing out there
myself from the pagan community.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Well, that's true.
SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
All right, so again, I mean, this is one of the
reasons I kind of like relagainst that because we don't
need to.
We don't have to.
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
No, I mean it and the way we we teach in our in
our temple, our coven, is uh wedon't tolerate that.
No, it's not we we teach themthat it's not something that we
should be doing.
Everybody is entitled to theirown belief, right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
And their way of every path is valid.
SPEAKER_01 (19:44):
Right.
Their way of practicing theirfaith, all of that, that's their
business.
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Because at the end of the day, I mean, I don't I
don't know, I can't speak forall pagans, they could speak for
me.
I I don't want to seeChristianity disappear.
I don't want to see any of theseother religions disappear
because I think we needreligion.
Right.
I think we all need religion.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Well, you've said it before, it's like a pair of
shoes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
Yeah, you just gotta find the right pair.
So, you know, you just gottafind the right religion for you.
I don't I don't think everybodywas born to necessarily be
Christian or everybody was bornto be Muslim, or you know, it
just it doesn't all fit one niceneat package all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
All right.
I'll take it a step further.
I don't I don't think thateverybody was meant to be
spiritual.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Um, and I think that's what that's what makes
this world a a better place, isbecause we've got so many
different ideas about how thingswork and you know, whether or
not we're spiritual beings oranything else.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
I mean, well, I mean, I think our only complaint
for a lot of these is we don'twant you to, we're not forcing
our religion or our beliefs onyou, quit forcing yours on ours,
on us.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (21:02):
But yet we turn around and every time it it is
over and over.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.
Y'all just haven't, we just needto preach a little bit harder.
We just need No.
What makes you at what point dowe have to look at y'all going,
we don't care?
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
You know, I I'm sorry, I've been to gathers and
other things where we've hadprotesters and stuff.
I don't don't talk to them.
Let them do their thing anddon't talk to them.
And it doesn't, there's no skinoff my nose.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
No, of course not.
Just let them do their thing,just like you said, and just
ignore them.
Keep going, go have your fun.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
If you're if you are secure in your belief, what does
it matter?
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
It really doesn't.
You know when it boils when youboil it down to that, it doesn't
matter.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Right.
It doesn't.
So so why do it?
Why because I don't want to sitthere and go, okay, don't bash
Christians because we're betterthan them or you you with me?
That's not the stance here.
It's just it's a different wayof thinking.
You don't want your religionbashed.
Why should we bash anybodyelse's?
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
You know, I hate to be this way, let's use the
Christians' own words.
Treat others as you want to betreated.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Right.
Do unto others as you would havethem do unto you.
SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
So again, what is this?
You know, what why can't y'allhold this?
We do.
Well, I don't want to say all ofpaganism, but you know, I know
some of us do.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
I still never understood that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
I you know, I don't know.
It makes no sense to me either.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
So is it this that we're that different or bizarre?
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Could be.
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
I mean, people accuse us of that all the time,
so I mean, I d don't get mewrong, we may have a number of
people that are a little bitmore off the beaten track, a
little bit more alternativelifestyles than most.
And that's fine.
(23:11):
I but so what?
I mean, these people needreligion just like everybody
else does.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Sure.
I don't know.
Anything else you um would letme let me ask you, do you think
do you think this is uh justlike a one-off?
SPEAKER_02 (23:28):
Yeah, really, I think it is.
Do you mean that it's prettymuch it's popular now, but it's
gonna dwindle away and well itbecame popular because Charlie
Kirk wrote the Ford for it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
Very true.
SPEAKER_02 (23:45):
Okay.
And again, and I've heard acouple of pagans do this, but
Charlie Kirk did not write thebook.
He just wrote the Ford.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Again, not completely happy about that, but
his death caused it to becomemore popular.
Right.
All right, because it was one ofthe last Fords he wrote for a
book, I think, before he wasassassinated.
So, but I really don't think itis.
I think there's a whole lotbigger mess for the whole world
(24:15):
to worry about or the wholecountry to worry about right now
than this little pagans who canbarely get ourselves organized
on a you know daily basis.
Right.
I mean, you know, trying totrying to organize pagans to do
anything like herding cats.
I mean a lot of times it is.
(24:36):
Yeah.
You gotta have a lot ofpatience.
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
A lot of patience and some extra hands.
SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
God, yes.
And how in the world are wesupposed to take over the world,
but we can't barely organizerituals sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
I get it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Yeah, I mean, come on.
So now at the end, I I don'tthink this is gonna amount to
too much.
I think it's gonna, everybody'sgonna read it, it's gonna sort
of fade off into the ground.
Matter of fact, I've matteredhere lately, since we're doing
this now, I've seen less andless people even talking about
this book.
Now, I did I did go back andread some of the comments um
(25:19):
that some people have made, andthere were some Christians that
were sitting back going, this isgarbage.
This is not what these peopledo, and this is calling out some
of the same stuff we do.
We we have here interesting, youknow, that that this should not
be part of Christianity and weshouldn't be going down this
path.
This is just some people evenaccused him of just trying to do
(25:41):
a uh money grab.
Wow.
On there, that it was justthat's all this was was a big
old flash in the pan to go, ooh,hey, I'm gonna scare everybody
while this while everybody'salready in an uproar.
SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
I mean, could have been.
Could have been.
I mean, and and uh the timingcouldn't have been better for
that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
So you know, well, I don't think that's what it is.
I really believe this man, thispastor actually believes this is
what's going on.
You know, I I don't I don'tthink I I do not see this pastor
ever coming on the podcast likeours or any of the others and
actually debating it with us.
SPEAKER_01 (26:24):
Yeah, no, I don't either.
SPEAKER_02 (26:26):
You know, especially in a civil way or anything like
that.
I just I don't see thathappening.
Because apparently he couldn'teven take enough time to realize
how different and how variousour traditions are and beliefs,
how much variety there is.
I yeah, how much variety we havein the pagan community in
(26:50):
beliefs and belief systems, youknow, that fall under that big I
mean because the pagan term is abig umbrella.
SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
It's very big.
Because the original definitionthat we we remember from the old
old dictionaries was it wasanybody who did not believe in
the birth.
Birth, death, and resurrection.
And then the so don't get mewrong, it's changed over the
(27:20):
years, but which now excludeseverybody except for
Christianity.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Pretty much, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:27):
So again, I also gotta ask what definition of
pagan is he using because again,it is a very big umbrella term,
and no, we don't all share thesame beliefs and thoughts and
no, and and I'll say this too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Um, I'm kind of surprised with the amount of
information that's out thereregarding so many different uh
variations of paganism that hedidn't do more research.
Or maybe he did and he just consmisconstrued all the information
that he read.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Or I think he cherry-picked what he wanted.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
Well, maybe.
SPEAKER_02 (28:06):
You know, uh he he saw the he saw the inform again,
just like you know, the peoplethat went out there and did the
curses to curse Trump and didnot go look to see our wit which
is going out there blessingTrump to or doing protective
spells.
And there were.
But again, like you said, youdidn't see about that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
So no, you didn't see that a whole lot.
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
You know, doing no searches on the internet, you
know, depending on the way youword stuff, you'll get a certain
you can get a certain answerthat you won't.
Absolutely.
So it sort of saddens me to seethat we're even that the
somebody's even trying to bringthis stuff back up.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
I know, yeah, it's it's a sad situation, I think.
And I I do wish we could sitdown and have a conversation
with this man and just changehis mind, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
I doubt that will ever happen, but you know or
somebody.
And I'm not sure somebody.
I I I might not be smart enoughto do this, but you know, it'd
be nice to see if somebody coulddebate him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Yeah, it would be nice.
So you ready for some coffee?
Yeah, let's get some morecoffee.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pegan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary.
Please visit us at lifetempleseminary.org for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(29:39):
Discord, Twitter, YouTube, andReddit.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
We travel down the stroden path, the maze of stone
in my eye.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya deal blazing piece.
And so it is the end of myday's.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
(30:06):
our day.
So walk with me till morning.
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