May 7, 2025 • 21 mins
Herbalists and apothecaries. While both work with plants and natural substances, their approaches couldn't be more different. Herbalists typically focus on magical properties and spiritual applications, while apothecaries delve into the science of plant compounds and their medicinal effects on the human body. After all, many pharmaceutical drugs—from aspirin derived from willow bark to powerful opioids—originated from plants long before modern medicine isolated their compounds.
We also tackle the serious business of working with an apothecary. A qualified practitioner will conduct thorough consultations, ask personal questions about your health history, and ensure their remedies won't interact negatively with your existing medications. Unlike the instant results sometimes promised in magical contexts, natural remedies typically build up in your system gradually, requiring patience and consistency. This realistic approach stands in stark contrast to the quick-fix expectations many bring to natural medicine.
Your health journey should be a team effort with you as the leader. The best outcomes often come from apothecaries who work in conjunction with conventional medical practitioners, recognizing that both approaches have their place. Whether you're dealing with chronic conditions or seeking preventative care, understanding this balance helps you make informed decisions about your wellbeing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Hey, lone Knight.
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm fine.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
How are you?
Other than a sinus infection?
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But you know, maybe you should go to the doctor, hmm
, well, why would I do that?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What?
Can't get an appointment?
Probably not.
Well, you know what you coulddo instead If you can't get an
appointment.
Probably not well, you knowwhat you could do instead if you
can't get an appointment withthe doctor uh-huh, go see your
local apothecary.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh, you know, I could do that.
Now.
That raises a good questionthough okay, is that just an
herbalist?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
no, what's the difference?
Uh, the level of training,level of training, level of
training, level of training,level of training Most
herbalists deal with moremagical usage of herbs Okay.
Where apothecaries deal morewith the compounds found in the
(01:17):
herbs.
So it's more medicinal, it'smore medicinal.
There's no magic required touse herbs as medicine.
Okay, does it help?
Maybe Right.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Not going to rule it out.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not going to rule it out, but is it required?
No, all right, and beforeanybody states the obvious on
this, all right, I'm just goingto bring up the following plants
Cyprositilin, marijuana,cocaine and opioids.
All come from plants, right.
(01:53):
Nothing else.
They're not engineered.
The original forms come fromplants, right.
So again, if you don't believethat there's compounds in here,
that I'm sorry.
The drugs preview wrong, right,all right.
I just want to stake that outbecause there are people out
(02:13):
there for some reason.
I've ran across them and I evenremember lady keegan even
mentioned that a few got intoher class where literally they
were sitting there talking aboutsome of the compounds and one
woman raised her hand and wasjust like wait a minute, but we
ain't even charged or magicallydone and everybody in the class
just looked at them and theteacher goes let me see after
(02:35):
class.
Basically, I don't think thisis the class for you.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, I mean, I could totally see that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Because we're dealing with real compounds that can be
found and broke down in plants.
Right, and you know druginteractions and all that other
stuff so yeah, yeah, I mean,there's a drug I take.
I cannot eat large amounts ofginger, right, or they'll
interact with each other and notin a good way, right,
(03:03):
definitely don't want that.
All right.
But yeah, or they'll interactwith each other and not in a
good way, right?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Definitely don't want that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
All right, but yet I hear all these people sit there
and we'll sit there and say thesame thing, but yet not realize
that you go to the doctor'soffice to get a pill or an
injection known as Coumadinadded to you to thin out your
blood.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Oh yeah, coumadin, Coumadin yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
All right, and we do realize you can buy this in the
grocery store, right?
Technically?
Yeah, again, it's the same herb.
The only difference is theamount.
When doctors give it to you,they're giving them to you, a
very large amount.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Well, and I think it's also got something else in
it, some other things in thereto concentrate the things needed
to thin your blood.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know, that's just like we get aspirin from the
tree bark of, I think, whippingwillows.
Is it whipping willows?
Yep?
Whipping willows bark hasaspartame in them.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Okay, I'll take your word on that one because that's,
if you have to, you can factcheck me.
Well, I don't Hold on.
Hold on while we do some littlefact check.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Aspartame exists, in what plants, where?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
does there we go?
What plant?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It comes from multiple plants.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Salicylic acid.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Compound found in several plants White willow,
wintergreen and birch.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Hmm, it's a willow bark Will.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's a willow bark.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Willow bark, white willow bark.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I don't know if that's the same as the weeping
willows, but it's still a willowtree.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, it's still a willow tree.
Okay, so I mean specificallythat.
But again, this is where we getaspirin from.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Again back in the day you had a headache.
Yes, they would tell you todamn chew on a piece of bark.
Well sure, all right.
But I see a lot of people inthe pagan community.
They don't seem to want tobelieve that these compounds
exist.
They just want to think it'sjust magic.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Just magic.
I don't know that I've runacross that, but I know there is
a lot of the magic aspect thatpeople want to follow.
Yes, Kind of like with thecrystals.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You want to do the magic aspect, and I think that's
the love affair with magic.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Maybe I mean don't get me wrong, I mean quartz
crystals do have their purposein magic.
They act more like regulators.
We can put a lot of energy intothem and energy will slip out
of them slowly over time.
Well, sure, hence the reason weuse them for protection
crystals.
We can put a lot of energy inthere and then it will just
slowly release it over time,leaving that protective barrier.
(06:05):
Sure, all right.
But, and again, just likeplants, same thing with plants.
All right, I mean, for cryingout loud.
They just rfk, just decided totry to ban all the artificial
flavors and colorants and rightand already they're starting to
research natural alternatives tothe dyes.
(06:26):
And it's funny how that is Right, you know, funny how in the
world.
I've even seen certaincompanies and I'm not sure how
true it is where they've all ofa sudden able to go out to all
natural dyes overnight.
Right, who was that?
Was that Sprinkles?
I don't know, the Sprinkles foryour cupcakes or whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh, was it?
Yeah, I think you read.
No, I don't think I saw thatstory, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So I have to ask so what is it in the pagan
community where we don't seem tobelieve that we are what we eat
or that these herbs actuallyhave what causes?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
that disconnect.
I think a lot of it has to dowith the love affair, with magic
.
I think it's a um.
I think it's more caused byhollywood right and that whole
aspect of the magical life.
Right, you know, live yourmagical.
And then everything that we'vegot, from posters to little
(07:28):
metal signs that we can hang upin our house, to stickers and
everything else, it's all magicrelated and it's what's been
pushed on us and I think that'skind of divided, that line
between magic and medicinal andscience.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
yes, all right I mean because I I'm not going to sit
here and tell you I don't seethem on facebook and twitter,
the little things you know.
Oh, february, magic month here,these herbs and blah, blah,
blah and on and on and on rightagain, it talks about the herbs,
but not the medicinal aspect ofanything.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
You know, and unfortunately we don't see a lot
of apothecaries nowadays andeven if we did, they're not
putting themselves out onFacebook, no Saying you know,
actually these herbs are verymedicinal and da-da-da, or this
or that.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And again, don't get me wrong, it can be a little
confusing when you start to tryto study this stuff, because
there's so many and so muchright to be able to identify,
learn.
And I mean, I'm sorry, if youcan't identify a plant, you you
got a problem there, your, yourability to be an herbalist or
even an apothecary just droppeddramatically, right, because if
(08:47):
you cannot distinguish apoisonous plant over a different
plant, right, you're gonna havea problem yeah, and I mean, you
know I'll be the first to admitI would be a terrible herbalist
, I'd be a terrible apothecary,because there's only certain
plants that I can identify.
I've been working on that, but Igot to ask All right, now
(09:11):
there's certain rules or certainlaws right About making certain
products in every state,whatever.
You need to learn those,whatever.
But in the paying community Idon't.
A lot of the stuff's done.
A friend of a friend made thisfor me, or anything like that.
Should you be concerned?
(09:32):
Would you be concerned aboutwho your apothecary is?
I mean I would think so I mean,are you with me?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
because you're you know again, you're dealing with
a more medicinal aspect and youdo have to worry about drug
interactions.
I mean, let's face it, evenyour pharmacist at your local
pharmacy.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
What medications you own.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, yeah, they want to know what other medications
are you taking and if you lookat any pamphlet that comes with
your drugs it will always saywatch out for these interactions
.
You know there's somemedications you can't take
heartburn pills with, some youhave to take specific pills with
and you have to be like 12hours apart.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Right.
And then there's some.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
you're not supposed to eat certain foods with the
Right, but now a lot of thosepamphlets won't put that
information in there.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
No, not directly, but now a lot of those pamphlets
won't put that information inthere.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
No, not not directly, so it's so I mean it all comes
down to know you know whatyou're taking.
So yeah, I would think if I'mgoing to an apothecary it's not
going to be just joe, blow downthe road, right, you know, I
want somebody, I know you wantsomebody who's licensed, trained
right and really knows whatthey're doing right.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think one of the best ways to know if you're
really dealing with a goodapothecary is when you first sit
down with them.
They're going to have a quitelong conversation with you.
Oh yeah, they're going to beasking you personal questions
and sitting there taking notesthe whole entire time.
And they're going to be askingyou questions and some of them
are going to be quite personal.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean be prepared to answer those
personal questions, because whyit matters.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I mean you've got to treat this person just like you
do your doctor.
You can't sit there and abscondor color the truth about
certain.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
You're with me, right ?
No, because if you do that,then, yeah, you're potentially
misdiagnosing yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Right.
So again, if you can't behonest enough, or you don't feel
honest enough with these peoplethat you can tell them
everything, there might be aproblem there, right?
So maybe you should find adifferent apothecary or somebody
like that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Or just go to your doctor instead, or just actually
go to your doctor.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean again, I don't want to knock down the
apothecaries, but most of thegood apothecaries I know work
with doctors.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I get that a lot of people want to take a more
holistic approach, right?
That's where, yeah, yourherbalist might be able to tell
you well, you know this herb'sgood for heartburn or this
herb's good for blood pressure,but they're not going to be able
(12:22):
to tell you dosing.
They're not going to be able totell you if it interacts with
any medication you might ormight not be taking at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I mean again, the dosing does become a little
different because mostpharmacists are dealing with
scientific chemicals, right, andthey know the potency.
I'm sorry when you make up roseoil or an essential oil or
something you sort of know, butit doesn't necessarily depends
on how well the plant grew thatyear and water, but again you're
(12:58):
consulting with an apothecarywho's already been taught to
understand these things and howto adjust.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Right and chances are they're probably going to start
you on a low dose anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Just be on the safe side Most apothecaries I know
give you an herb and and go hererub this on your hand, right
you know here.
Rub this on this sensitive spotright here.
Does it itch?
No, then you're not allergicwith it.
Now we're going to move on toanother thing here.
Taste it?
Do your lips stout?
No, then you're good, right Imean it, just it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
It's common sense to work with, not against, the
people that you're entrustingyour medication to.
You know Right.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Let's skip over While we're on this, just healers in
general.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
All right, there's this wonderful story Lord and
Men used to tell us about afriend of theirs.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
That was part of the coven or group or whatever, and
he would come in every so oftenwith a medical complaint.
They would do a healing ritualand move on and didn't think
nothing else about it.
And they kept on doing thisover and over again for a while
and I remember the guy wound upin the hospital about to go into
a diabetic coma with none ofthe symptoms of being diabetic
(14:11):
right, because they cured allthe symptoms so the doctor
couldn't diagnose them.
So, and again, in a way, herewe are trying to heal someone,
but at no point did anybody evergo.
Wait a minute.
What's the underlying problem?
Right, we're not doctors.
We haven't diagnosed thatunderlying problem.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, I think that's a very valid argument because
there's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
There's a lot of symptoms that can mimic other
symptoms for other problems.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yes, yes, that's exactly where I was going with
that Because, let's face it,even flu, right, you take the
flu, flu-like symptoms, hello.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The common cold can represent flu-like symptoms.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Could be the common cold.
Could be allergies.
Allergies can present asflu-like symptoms.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Come on people, and we call them flu-like symptoms,
because it's something common,everybody understands, right?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So if you're not, again I'm back to what you said
If you're not diagnosing, you'renot getting to the root of the
problem.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
No, well again.
I mean it's like the wholeentire problem with Reiki.
Reiki works.
I believe it works All right,I've seen it work.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It can relieve pain.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
It can relieve stress .
It can relieve stress.
It can do a lot of things, butthe one thing it don't do is it
don't normally fix the root ofthe problem.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And the problem just comes back and you have to go
back.
It's like continuously havingto go back to the chiropractor.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, I see Reiki as more of and I could be wrong, it
wouldn't be the first time I'vebeen wrong but I see Reiki as
more of.
It's kind of like taking a painpill.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
You're not getting rid of the root cause, you're
just relieving the symptoms.
You're relieving the symptomsand it's not even eliminating
the symptoms.
Again, it's masking.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well again, even acupuncture, to a certain extent
, I believe, does the same thing.
I believe some ways it can helpheal.
Okay, all right, because theycan direct energy to a part of
your body to help heal naturallyRight right.
That I understand.
That makes sense to me.
But the fact that it could justinstantly do it just because
(16:35):
you put a needle in one spot, Idon't well, no, and I see all of
these therapies the same.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
It's, uh, the same as the herbal approach to things.
Herbs take a while to build upin your system again.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
it's all like exercising Right.
For the yoga to work, you'vegot to do it for a long period
of time.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
For the Tai Chi to work, you have to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Right, and the same thing if you're taking any
herbal supplements.
You know I take fish oil, Itake whatever else.
It takes a while for that tobuild up in your system, for it
to do what it's intended to doRight.
So you have to give it time.
You're not going to see thoseovernight results like most
people expect.
No, even if you're followingback to the whole magic aspect,
(17:22):
even if you're following amagical aspect of this, you're
not going to see overnightresults.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
No, never, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So give it time, be patient.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
You mean?
I mean you want me to sit hereand say strange things have
never happened, or anything likethat, and it happens.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Strange things do happen every once in a while.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But sitting there betting the boat on it is not
something I would do.
No, all right.
So there is a differencebetween herbalism and apothecary
Right.
A good herbalist will be ableto point you to the right tea to
drink and all this other stuff,and maybe the right herbs to
burn or incense.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Where apothecary is going to be able to tell you
okay, you take this muchrosemary and you might not have
to take this pill Right, or youmight not have to take this pill
right or you might not have todo this drug.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
We can do this more naturally here by the time we
get you off more the artificialmedicine and back onto a more
natural thing you might dobetter, right, and they'll also
and, like we mentioned earlier,they'll also be able to tell you
well, because you're takingthis particular medication, I
can't give you this set of herbsno but I can give you this me
(18:40):
personally.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I've had to take ibuprofen yeah over a long
period of time.
This hurt my kidneys yeahbecause of all the swelling and
stuff I have.
But I found a more natural wayto do it that it doesn't hurt my
kidneys as much.
Right, and still get the effectof that with that herb that I
take to help with that.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm not saying it works for everybody, it works
for me.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
But Right, but that's my point.
I mean, it's just yourapothecary is going to be able
to tell you, yeah, on a morescientific, scientific, more
medicinal level.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
That's the biggest difference between an apothecary
and your herbalist but at theend of the day, I'm still not
going to sit there and tell youto completely ignore your doctor
either no, I know all of thisshould be done in conjunction
with your doctor you know I Ihave a condition that I was
diagnosed with and I went to myapothecary and I said hey, what
can I take for this?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
She said, hey, take this.
It's not going to interferewith anything you already take,
but it's really good.
Take this and this dosage thismany times a week.
I did.
I was starting to see someresults after a while and my
doctor was like no, I'm notseeing that.
I'm not seeing the improvement.
I would like to see someresults after a while.
And my doctor was like nope,I'm not seeing the improvement I
(19:55):
would like to see.
I want you to come off of that.
I'm going to put you on this.
I consulted with my apothecary.
She was like well, you shouldlisten to your doctor.
So guess what I did?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Did I like that decision?
No.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Because what the doctor gives me is synthetic,
right, and I don't like that,but it's given me the results
that I need physically,physically.
So you should always beconsulting with your doctor.
Yes, relay your information toyour apothecary.
That's how this works.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I know.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Think of it as a team effort in your healthcare.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I know Except you're the team team effort in your
health care, I know, exceptyou're the team leader.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Don't ever think that they are the team leaders.
You are.
It's your health.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
They can only make advice and suggestions.
So I think that's about it forthis.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Let's get some coffee .
Oh God, yes, Thanks forlistening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
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Speaker 3 (21:14):
Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing
fires.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning
breaks, and so it is the end ofour day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
our days.
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Hey, lone Knight.
Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm fine.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
How are you?
Other than a sinus infection?
I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But you know, maybe you should go to the doctor, hmm
, well, why would I do that?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What?
Can't get an appointment?
Probably not.
Well, you know what you coulddo instead If you can't get an
appointment.
Probably not well, you knowwhat you could do instead if you
can't get an appointment withthe doctor uh-huh, go see your
local apothecary.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh, you know, I could do that.
Now.
That raises a good questionthough okay, is that just an
herbalist?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
no, what's the difference?
Uh, the level of training,level of training, level of
training, level of training,level of training Most
herbalists deal with moremagical usage of herbs Okay.
Where apothecaries deal morewith the compounds found in the
(01:17):
herbs.
So it's more medicinal, it'smore medicinal.
There's no magic required touse herbs as medicine.
Okay, does it help?
Maybe Right.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Not going to rule it out.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Not going to rule it out, but is it required?
No, all right, and beforeanybody states the obvious on
this, all right, I'm just goingto bring up the following plants
Cyprositilin, marijuana,cocaine and opioids.
All come from plants, right.
(01:53):
Nothing else.
They're not engineered.
The original forms come fromplants, right.
So again, if you don't believethat there's compounds in here,
that I'm sorry.
The drugs preview wrong, right,all right.
I just want to stake that outbecause there are people out
(02:13):
there for some reason.
I've ran across them and I evenremember lady keegan even
mentioned that a few got intoher class where literally they
were sitting there talking aboutsome of the compounds and one
woman raised her hand and wasjust like wait a minute, but we
ain't even charged or magicallydone and everybody in the class
just looked at them and theteacher goes let me see after
(02:35):
class.
Basically, I don't think thisis the class for you.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, I mean, I could totally see that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Because we're dealing with real compounds that can be
found and broke down in plants.
Right, and you know druginteractions and all that other
stuff so yeah, yeah, I mean,there's a drug I take.
I cannot eat large amounts ofginger, right, or they'll
interact with each other and notin a good way, right,
(03:03):
definitely don't want that.
All right.
But yeah, or they'll interactwith each other and not in a
good way, right?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Definitely don't want that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
All right, but yet I hear all these people sit there
and we'll sit there and say thesame thing, but yet not realize
that you go to the doctor'soffice to get a pill or an
injection known as Coumadinadded to you to thin out your
blood.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Oh yeah, coumadin, Coumadin yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
All right, and we do realize you can buy this in the
grocery store, right?
Technically?
Yeah, again, it's the same herb.
The only difference is theamount.
When doctors give it to you,they're giving them to you, a
very large amount.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Well, and I think it's also got something else in
it, some other things in thereto concentrate the things needed
to thin your blood.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know, that's just like we get aspirin from the
tree bark of, I think, whippingwillows.
Is it whipping willows?
Yep?
Whipping willows bark hasaspartame in them.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Okay, I'll take your word on that one because that's,
if you have to, you can factcheck me.
Well, I don't Hold on.
Hold on while we do some littlefact check.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Aspartame exists, in what plants, where?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
does there we go?
What plant?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It comes from multiple plants.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Salicylic acid.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Compound found in several plants White willow,
wintergreen and birch.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Hmm, it's a willow bark Will.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It's a willow bark.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Willow bark, white willow bark.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I don't know if that's the same as the weeping
willows, but it's still a willowtree.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, it's still a willow tree.
Okay, so I mean specificallythat.
But again, this is where we getaspirin from.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Again back in the day you had a headache.
Yes, they would tell you todamn chew on a piece of bark.
Well sure, all right.
But I see a lot of people inthe pagan community.
They don't seem to want tobelieve that these compounds
exist.
They just want to think it'sjust magic.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Just magic.
I don't know that I've runacross that, but I know there is
a lot of the magic aspect thatpeople want to follow.
Yes, Kind of like with thecrystals.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You want to do the magic aspect, and I think that's
the love affair with magic.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Maybe I mean don't get me wrong, I mean quartz
crystals do have their purposein magic.
They act more like regulators.
We can put a lot of energy intothem and energy will slip out
of them slowly over time.
Well, sure, hence the reason weuse them for protection
crystals.
We can put a lot of energy inthere and then it will just
slowly release it over time,leaving that protective barrier.
(06:05):
Sure, all right.
But, and again, just likeplants, same thing with plants.
All right, I mean, for cryingout loud.
They just rfk, just decided totry to ban all the artificial
flavors and colorants and rightand already they're starting to
research natural alternatives tothe dyes.
(06:26):
And it's funny how that is Right, you know, funny how in the
world.
I've even seen certaincompanies and I'm not sure how
true it is where they've all ofa sudden able to go out to all
natural dyes overnight.
Right, who was that?
Was that Sprinkles?
I don't know, the Sprinkles foryour cupcakes or whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh, was it?
Yeah, I think you read.
No, I don't think I saw thatstory, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So I have to ask so what is it in the pagan
community where we don't seem tobelieve that we are what we eat
or that these herbs actuallyhave what causes?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
that disconnect.
I think a lot of it has to dowith the love affair, with magic
.
I think it's a um.
I think it's more caused byhollywood right and that whole
aspect of the magical life.
Right, you know, live yourmagical.
And then everything that we'vegot, from posters to little
(07:28):
metal signs that we can hang upin our house, to stickers and
everything else, it's all magicrelated and it's what's been
pushed on us and I think that'skind of divided, that line
between magic and medicinal andscience.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
yes, all right I mean because I I'm not going to sit
here and tell you I don't seethem on facebook and twitter,
the little things you know.
Oh, february, magic month here,these herbs and blah, blah,
blah and on and on and on rightagain, it talks about the herbs,
but not the medicinal aspect ofanything.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
You know, and unfortunately we don't see a lot
of apothecaries nowadays andeven if we did, they're not
putting themselves out onFacebook, no Saying you know,
actually these herbs are verymedicinal and da-da-da, or this
or that.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
And again, don't get me wrong, it can be a little
confusing when you start to tryto study this stuff, because
there's so many and so muchright to be able to identify,
learn.
And I mean, I'm sorry, if youcan't identify a plant, you you
got a problem there, your, yourability to be an herbalist or
even an apothecary just droppeddramatically, right, because if
(08:47):
you cannot distinguish apoisonous plant over a different
plant, right, you're gonna havea problem yeah, and I mean, you
know I'll be the first to admitI would be a terrible herbalist
, I'd be a terrible apothecary,because there's only certain
plants that I can identify.
I've been working on that, but Igot to ask All right, now
(09:11):
there's certain rules or certainlaws right About making certain
products in every state,whatever.
You need to learn those,whatever.
But in the paying community Idon't.
A lot of the stuff's done.
A friend of a friend made thisfor me, or anything like that.
Should you be concerned?
(09:32):
Would you be concerned aboutwho your apothecary is?
I mean I would think so I mean,are you with me?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
because you're you know again, you're dealing with
a more medicinal aspect and youdo have to worry about drug
interactions.
I mean, let's face it, evenyour pharmacist at your local
pharmacy.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
What medications you own.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, yeah, they want to know what other medications
are you taking and if you lookat any pamphlet that comes with
your drugs it will always saywatch out for these interactions
.
You know there's somemedications you can't take
heartburn pills with, some youhave to take specific pills with
and you have to be like 12hours apart.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Right.
And then there's some.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
you're not supposed to eat certain foods with the
Right, but now a lot of thosepamphlets won't put that
information in there.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
No, not directly, but now a lot of those pamphlets
won't put that information inthere.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
No, not not directly, so it's so I mean it all comes
down to know you know whatyou're taking.
So yeah, I would think if I'mgoing to an apothecary it's not
going to be just joe, blow downthe road, right, you know, I
want somebody, I know you wantsomebody who's licensed, trained
right and really knows whatthey're doing right.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think one of the best ways to know if you're
really dealing with a goodapothecary is when you first sit
down with them.
They're going to have a quitelong conversation with you.
Oh yeah, they're going to beasking you personal questions
and sitting there taking notesthe whole entire time.
And they're going to be askingyou questions and some of them
are going to be quite personal.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean be prepared to answer those
personal questions, because whyit matters.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
I mean you've got to treat this person just like you
do your doctor.
You can't sit there and abscondor color the truth about
certain.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
You're with me, right ?
No, because if you do that,then, yeah, you're potentially
misdiagnosing yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Right.
So again, if you can't behonest enough, or you don't feel
honest enough with these peoplethat you can tell them
everything, there might be aproblem there, right?
So maybe you should find adifferent apothecary or somebody
like that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Or just go to your doctor instead, or just actually
go to your doctor.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean again, I don't want to knock down the
apothecaries, but most of thegood apothecaries I know work
with doctors.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I get that a lot of people want to take a more
holistic approach, right?
That's where, yeah, yourherbalist might be able to tell
you well, you know this herb'sgood for heartburn or this
herb's good for blood pressure,but they're not going to be able
(12:22):
to tell you dosing.
They're not going to be able totell you if it interacts with
any medication you might ormight not be taking at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I mean again, the dosing does become a little
different because mostpharmacists are dealing with
scientific chemicals, right, andthey know the potency.
I'm sorry when you make up roseoil or an essential oil or
something you sort of know, butit doesn't necessarily depends
on how well the plant grew thatyear and water, but again you're
(12:58):
consulting with an apothecarywho's already been taught to
understand these things and howto adjust.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Right and chances are they're probably going to start
you on a low dose anyway.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Just be on the safe side Most apothecaries I know
give you an herb and and go hererub this on your hand, right
you know here.
Rub this on this sensitive spotright here.
Does it itch?
No, then you're not allergicwith it.
Now we're going to move on toanother thing here.
Taste it?
Do your lips stout?
No, then you're good, right Imean it, just it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
It's common sense to work with, not against, the
people that you're entrustingyour medication to.
You know Right.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Let's skip over While we're on this, just healers in
general.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
All right, there's this wonderful story Lord and
Men used to tell us about afriend of theirs.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
That was part of the coven or group or whatever, and
he would come in every so oftenwith a medical complaint.
They would do a healing ritualand move on and didn't think
nothing else about it.
And they kept on doing thisover and over again for a while
and I remember the guy wound upin the hospital about to go into
a diabetic coma with none ofthe symptoms of being diabetic
(14:11):
right, because they cured allthe symptoms so the doctor
couldn't diagnose them.
So, and again, in a way, herewe are trying to heal someone,
but at no point did anybody evergo.
Wait a minute.
What's the underlying problem?
Right, we're not doctors.
We haven't diagnosed thatunderlying problem.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, I think that's a very valid argument because
there's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
There's a lot of symptoms that can mimic other
symptoms for other problems.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yes, yes, that's exactly where I was going with
that Because, let's face it,even flu, right, you take the
flu, flu-like symptoms, hello.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The common cold can represent flu-like symptoms.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Could be the common cold.
Could be allergies.
Allergies can present asflu-like symptoms.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Come on people, and we call them flu-like symptoms,
because it's something common,everybody understands, right?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So if you're not, again I'm back to what you said
If you're not diagnosing, you'renot getting to the root of the
problem.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
No, well again.
I mean it's like the wholeentire problem with Reiki.
Reiki works.
I believe it works All right,I've seen it work.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It can relieve pain.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
It can relieve stress .
It can relieve stress.
It can do a lot of things, butthe one thing it don't do is it
don't normally fix the root ofthe problem.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
No.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And the problem just comes back and you have to go
back.
It's like continuously havingto go back to the chiropractor.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, I see Reiki as more of and I could be wrong, it
wouldn't be the first time I'vebeen wrong but I see Reiki as
more of.
It's kind of like taking a painpill.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
You're not getting rid of the root cause, you're
just relieving the symptoms.
You're relieving the symptomsand it's not even eliminating
the symptoms.
Again, it's masking.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well again, even acupuncture, to a certain extent
, I believe, does the same thing.
I believe some ways it can helpheal.
Okay, all right, because theycan direct energy to a part of
your body to help heal naturallyRight right.
That I understand.
That makes sense to me.
But the fact that it could justinstantly do it just because
(16:35):
you put a needle in one spot, Idon't well, no, and I see all of
these therapies the same.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
It's, uh, the same as the herbal approach to things.
Herbs take a while to build upin your system again.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
it's all like exercising Right.
For the yoga to work, you'vegot to do it for a long period
of time.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
For the Tai Chi to work, you have to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Right, and the same thing if you're taking any
herbal supplements.
You know I take fish oil, Itake whatever else.
It takes a while for that tobuild up in your system, for it
to do what it's intended to doRight.
So you have to give it time.
You're not going to see thoseovernight results like most
people expect.
No, even if you're followingback to the whole magic aspect,
(17:22):
even if you're following amagical aspect of this, you're
not going to see overnightresults.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
No, never, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
So give it time, be patient.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
You mean?
I mean you want me to sit hereand say strange things have
never happened, or anything likethat, and it happens.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Strange things do happen every once in a while.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But sitting there betting the boat on it is not
something I would do.
No, all right.
So there is a differencebetween herbalism and apothecary
Right.
A good herbalist will be ableto point you to the right tea to
drink and all this other stuff,and maybe the right herbs to
burn or incense.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Where apothecary is going to be able to tell you
okay, you take this muchrosemary and you might not have
to take this pill Right, or youmight not have to take this pill
right or you might not have todo this drug.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
We can do this more naturally here by the time we
get you off more the artificialmedicine and back onto a more
natural thing you might dobetter, right, and they'll also
and, like we mentioned earlier,they'll also be able to tell you
well, because you're takingthis particular medication, I
can't give you this set of herbsno but I can give you this me
(18:40):
personally.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I've had to take ibuprofen yeah over a long
period of time.
This hurt my kidneys yeahbecause of all the swelling and
stuff I have.
But I found a more natural wayto do it that it doesn't hurt my
kidneys as much.
Right, and still get the effectof that with that herb that I
take to help with that.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm not saying it works for everybody, it works
for me.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
But Right, but that's my point.
I mean, it's just yourapothecary is going to be able
to tell you, yeah, on a morescientific, scientific, more
medicinal level.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
That's the biggest difference between an apothecary
and your herbalist but at theend of the day, I'm still not
going to sit there and tell youto completely ignore your doctor
either no, I know all of thisshould be done in conjunction
with your doctor you know I Ihave a condition that I was
diagnosed with and I went to myapothecary and I said hey, what
can I take for this?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
She said, hey, take this.
It's not going to interferewith anything you already take,
but it's really good.
Take this and this dosage thismany times a week.
I did.
I was starting to see someresults after a while and my
doctor was like no, I'm notseeing that.
I'm not seeing the improvement.
I would like to see someresults after a while.
And my doctor was like nope,I'm not seeing the improvement I
(19:55):
would like to see.
I want you to come off of that.
I'm going to put you on this.
I consulted with my apothecary.
She was like well, you shouldlisten to your doctor.
So guess what I did?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Did I like that decision?
No.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Because what the doctor gives me is synthetic,
right, and I don't like that,but it's given me the results
that I need physically,physically.
So you should always beconsulting with your doctor.
Yes, relay your information toyour apothecary.
That's how this works.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I know.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Think of it as a team effort in your healthcare.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I know Except you're the team team effort in your
health care, I know, exceptyou're the team leader.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Don't ever think that they are the team leaders.
You are.
It's your health.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
They can only make advice and suggestions.
So I think that's about it forthis.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Let's get some coffee .
Oh God, yes, Thanks forlistening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter of stone andmire.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing
fires.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning
breaks, and so it is the end ofour day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks, and so it is the end of
our days.
So walk with me till morning.
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