April 2, 2025 • 20 mins
Punctuality isn't just about watching the clock—it's about respect, consideration, and the seriousness with which we approach our spiritual practice. In this candid conversation, we dive into the frustrating reality of "Pagan Standard Time," that all-too-familiar phenomenon where rituals, classes, and gatherings start an hour or two later than scheduled, with little to no communication about the delay.
We explore how this cultural pattern undermines the pagan community's credibility and creates real barriers for participation. For practitioners with families, jobs, and responsibilities, these unpredictable delays make attendance nearly impossible. When someone drives 45 minutes to attend your ritual only to find it's been postponed without notice or canceled altogether, we're not just wasting their time—we're showing disrespect for their dedication to the path.
The problem extends beyond event scheduling into communication generally, with many pagan organizations failing to respond to inquiries in timely ways. We suggest practical solutions, like establishing a 24-hour response rule and committing to starting events at their published times. Most importantly, we challenge the community to consider whether our casual relationship with time reflects a casual relationship with our spiritual practice itself. Is paganism something we do only when the mood strikes, or is it truly integrated into our daily lives? Even five minutes of consistent practice each day demonstrates more commitment than sporadic attendance at seasonal events.
Join us for this thought-provoking discussion about reliability, courtesy, and what it means to put our spiritual practice first. Let us know your thoughts and experiences with PST—has it affected your participation in community events? What solutions have you found that work? Together, we can create a more considerate, accessible pagan community that honors both the divine and each other.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Let's talk about a subject we're going to piss off
a lot of people about.
Probably Alright, it's calledPagan Standard Time.
Alright, would you like toexplain to people what we are
talking about when we aretalking about Pagan Standard
Time?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Sure, pagan standard time.
Sure have you ever been to apublic ritual and they say this
class is going to happen at thishour or ritual starts at?
Seven, or this event will startat this time right, and then an
hour, hour and a half, twohours later, things are finally
(01:03):
getting started.
Maybe, maybe that's paganstandard time, all right, and I
think this applies to not onlyevents and stuff like that, but
it also applies to I see itrolling over into people's lives
as well yeah we'll get to thatyeah, well, I mean again, and
I'm not I'm not excusing useither because again, setting up
(01:26):
like first degree classes ishard to do.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
When you're sitting there and you get a new student,
interview them and then a monthlater somebody else goes.
I want to start, right, youknow, and then the next month
you got another person, I wantto start and you, you want to,
kind of crabbing these peopleall in one class, you do and
it's hard to this is not thepagan, that this is not pagan
(01:54):
standard time as far as I'mconcerned, because that's a more
of a, that's a logistics andgetting everybody on the same
page okay, but that's one sideof this.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Right could be perceived as pagan standard time
, because people don't see theother side of what's going on
right and this brings a wholenother realm to this, to this
conversation yeah that peopledon't think about, because
sometimes it is nothing butlogistics.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's that that is the hold up right, I mean, we're
not talking about anything fancyor anything like that.
Now again, don't get me wrong.
There are some people who don'tstart ritual until the spirit
moves them, right, I mean, Idon't know how to explain that.
They could be sitting there forfull moon and waiting until the
mood hits, could be.
(02:42):
But here's what makes all thisbad is people have lots.
Yep, people plan things, yep.
It is so freaking common in thepagan community at large.
Oh well, I was going to show upfor this event, or I was going
to go do this, and you know theinformation was supposed to be
(03:02):
out, this is, and you can't geta hold of anybody, right, you
know?
And then, at the last minute,they open up everything for.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, you know, I specifically remember being at
an event, I believe Lady Keegan.
I went with Lady Keegan Rightand we were there and we wanted
to stay for the ritual and thebrochure that they handed out to
everybody said it would happenat this time.
(03:32):
Well, that time rolled aroundand nothing was happening.
People weren't gathering aroundthe circle space, they weren't
prepping the space.
You didn't see anybody doinganything other than what they'd
been doing all day, and that wasconversing with other people,
shopping, going to whateverlittle class was there.
(03:54):
And I stopped and I askedsomebody.
I was like, hey, I thoughtritual was going to be at this
time.
Oh, it's been moved.
Well, you didn't tell anybody.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Why didn't you make an announcement?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Why don't y'all have a schedule board up somewhere
for when changes happen?
You can.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Right and so I don't, but now this was probably 30 to
45 minutes that it took me tofind somebody to answer this
question.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I mean so again, in my eyes, pagan standard time.
So I don't and we're nottalking about fashionably late
like 10, 15 minutes, whatever.
That could purely just be alogistical issue.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I mean again, ritual starting five minutes late.
I'm not going to set my hair onfire over, but when ritual's
two hours late, yeah, that seemsto be an issue.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That seems to be an issue.
I don't understand thementality behind this.
Is it just well, we're justbeing carefree and you know
we're going to let the spiritmove us?
Or is it just?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
being lazy.
Well, I mean, that's kind oflike.
You know.
I've heard of temples wherepeople show up for ritual and
the high priestess apparentlywas sick and then told everybody
to just go home.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
You know.
So again there is this.
I mean I realize the majorityof us are doing this in people's
homes and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
All right.
I mean, there's a ritual comingup here soon in which our
priestess will be out of town.
Right, we do ritual at herhouse.
I have to show up early.
We're still doing ritual, Idon't.
And we're still going to bedoing it on time, right, or at
our specific time.
We say seven o'clock for us.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
We usually do seven.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, you know, but what's so hard about that?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
for us.
We usually do seven, yeah youknow.
But what's so hard about that?
I don't know.
Like I said, I don't, I don'tfully understand it.
I'm sure there's got to be areason behind it, whether it
like I said, whether it be justwell.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I mean, I'll admit we're waiting for the spirit to
move us right.
I mean, I'll admit it.
I mean, most of my jobs havebeen logistics, so doing this
stuff's not that hard right.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Well, and see, even even before I started in on this
path, I was.
I was the type of person whereyou tell me something starts at
five o'clock.
I'm gonna be there 15 minutesearly yeah if I have an
interview scheduled for 7o'clock in the morning, guess
what?
I'm probably going to be therearound 6.30 so I can find
(06:32):
parking, allow for any trafficissues, anything like that, and
then I've got to allow forgetting lost in the hospital or
wherever it is I'm interviewing.
Yeah, I got to allow time forthat.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, I mean, I'm sorry when these people, when we
have these events and stufflike that and people don't do
things on time, nobody everseems to in the pagan community
ever looks at it as, oh, we'reinconveniencing everybody else.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, and well and honestly, I don't hear a lot of
people complaining about iteither, so that makes me think
this is something that they do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, I think it has become so prominent, and so it
is a stereotype of the pagancommunity.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It has become a stereotype, it's just it, and so
do you think it's also becomesomething that people just eh,
okay, whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, and they don't complain, and they don't
complain, and they don't.
I'm sorry.
People have lives.
You got kids, family, work,travel yeah and all this other
stuff.
And if you run the temple andyou just decide not to do ritual
, you know what about all theseother people who keep on showing
up?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
right, I mean last, mean last that they heard ritual
was going to happen, it wasgoing to start at such and such
time, such time.
So they showed up early,whatever, just to find out it's
been canceled.
Right To me that seems Well andfor us.
I'm not going to say selfish,because a lot of what we do is
(08:03):
selfish, but it just seems likeit's inconsiderate.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Because some people travel 30, 45 minutes to get to
your ritual.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'm sorry.
Going to ritual, going to apagan church or temple or
whatever requires the majorityof times requires some traveling
.
It does, and I'm sorry thatthat is a level of dedication
that you should honor, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
If you're going to have to cancel ritual, that's
one thing.
But let somebody know SomethingIf you've got folks traveling
to your house for ritual andyou're saying I can't do this
tonight, I'm sick or whatever,I'm contagious, right, Whatever
the reason, just reach out toyour group and say hey look, I'm
(08:50):
sorry, but this is thesituation.
No ritual tonight.
I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I have medical issues and blah, blah, blah, and there
are just times I cannotphysically go to ritual, right,
I'm just in too much pain and Imean I'm normally picking up the
phone calling up the lady goinghey, today's a bad day for me,
unfortunately, and I won't bethere, right, but if we're
teaching class that day, I'vegot to go anyway, mm-hmm,
(09:18):
because I made a promise toteach these classes and be there
at this specific time.
Absolutely, yeah.
So, and again, we're back tothe classes.
If I don't do my classes ontime, these people's schedules
are messed up, exactly, yeah,especially if we're doing doing
like classes on the weekends orsomething like that.
Where in the world they gotother things to do, you know?
(09:40):
There's kids baseball games,there's soccer, I mean Right.
So what's the problem?
I don't know.
You know, is this somethingthat we got started in the habit
of and we just continue to doit to this day?
Probably.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Probably.
I mean, it just seems likepeople are just so nonchalant
about it and I think that needsto change.
If we really want to convey apositive image towards paganism,
then we need to be not sayingwe need to be completely
(10:19):
structured.
There is some freedom to whatwe do and we like that, but I
think it comes back to keepingyour word.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
If you say ritual's gonna happen at seven, ritual
happens at seven.
Right.
If you say class is going tohappen at 7, ritual happens at 7
.
Right.
If you say class is going tohappen at 5.30, then class
happens at 5.30.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Well see, it's just like we've always had an
unspoken rule In Temple when weget an email, somebody has to
reply to that email within 24hours.
Within 24 hours, yes, becauseagain, there's a lot of places
where I've emailed and neverheard anything back.
You don't even know if thetemple's even still open.
I know you know so becausenobody ever took their
(11:00):
information down from one ofthese websites or whatever.
I don't.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well and in all honesty, I will admit sometimes
that doesn't happen all the time.
I will admit sometimes thatdoesn't happen all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But I try my best when I'm the one replying.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I try my best to one apologize for the delay, not
trying to make excuses, but justsaying hey look, I didn't get
back to you in a reasonableamount of time and I apologize
for that, but let's continue ourconversation, right Right, you
had an interest in this.
What can we do for you?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But I do my best and that's the promise that I've
made to myself and to the coven.
I do my best to respond withinthat 24 hours, but again, it's
considerate it's.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Considerate, I mean any response you know.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, it could be anything.
Hey, I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, We've seen your email, read it.
I haven't had to really writedown Richard's response Anything
as long as it's a response.
Right, I mean.
So yes, we did get your email,we have read it.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I mean it's a simple fix.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
I mean it seems to be thecourteous thing to do.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, but like I said , I think somehow or another we
need to change that mentality.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
How many more people would actually come to rituals?
I mean, that's the point.
At the end of the day, thepagan religions are about doing
the ritual itself.
That's part of the point of allof this.
So we have pagans runningaround who never go to ritual.
Would they go to, or only go to, ritual once a year or during
one of these?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
festivals or stuff like that.
That's an interesting question.
Is it because of?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
The structure because they can't get there Do you
understand what I'm saying, isit?
Because of the lack ofstructure.
Sure that causes people just tokind of I give up.
I keep on showing up for ritualand then it's two hours later
and I got to go home and I can't.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Right, and I don't have time.
I don't have time.
I don't have time for this.
I've got to put my kids in bed,I've got animals to feed, I've
got other obligations, so again,so is that a reason?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And if it is, would people be showing up at temples
and covens and all this more ifthere were more of a set time?
Hey, ritual's going to start at7.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I don't care if you're in the mood or not, I
think they would yeah you know,but, like I said, I think I
think changing to that type ofmentality would change the
mindset of other people towardspaganism yes to where it's well.
Okay, so it may not be exactlywhat I believe, but they do have
(13:49):
some structure yes, but otherthan other than.
Oh well, you know, I'm just, Igot my head in the clouds.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Because wouldn't you ask the question if you're this
disorganized on this, howdisorganized are you on your
religion itself?
Right?
If you're going to be teachingme your religion, how
disorganized are you, Right?
Do you even have a classstructure?
Do you have certain goals?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And don't even get me started on those people that
say well, this is all part ofchaos, right?
Well, yeah, it is chaos, andguess what?
It's not working for you.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Well, I mean again, when people talk about the chaos
and magic and all of this, mostpeople I don't think actually
understands what that chaosreally is.
I don't think they do.
It's not as powerful as theythink it is and it's really hard
to control?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Well, yeah, and it can disrupt your life if you're
not careful.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Because, guess what, it kind of rubs off on you.
Well, I mean, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It's one of them things you can sit there and I
know people don't like throwingthings away, but yet at some
point or another you're going tohave to go and clean out your
house or you're going to have ahoarding problem you know I
don't mean this is the perfecttime of year to do it.
Everybody's doing springcleaning anyway anyway, but
again, this is where in theworld we see the same thing
(15:07):
being led into your personallife.
It's easy to put stuff off.
I put off ritual.
I can do this Because then Ialso have to ask is how
important is it to you?
If it's so easily, I can do itnext week instead.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, now my only thing about that is is there are
I know that there are peoplewith certain conditions
depression, things like that,where sometimes things get
difficult to do and we're nottalking about that.
By no means are we talkingabout that.
I suffer with that.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But I hate to be this way.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I've had some issues that make me not very motivated.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Right, but I'm just saying but going to ritual
should motivate you in and ofitself.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Well and see, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
If you are a depressed person, you are
depressed.
Maybe ritual is what you need,Right.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
There are lots of times that I force myself to do
things, and it's not because Idon't want to do them, it's
because I physically don't havethe motivation to do it.
Right and I have to forcemyself to do it and I always
especially when it comes toritual class anything coven
related.
Anytime that happens, I alwaysfeel better.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, there's a concept in all of this that we
sort of talk about in Temple andI know a lot of people get
really upset when I talk aboutthis but in our philosophy, your
religion should come first.
Yes, your life should interruptyour religion, not your
religion interrupting your life,absolutely All right.
You know, we're not pagans juston the holidays on full moons,
(16:48):
absolutely Alright.
We're not pagans just on theholidays on full moons.
And just like Christians aren'tjust Christians just on Sundays
, right, even though a fewprobably do, or it kind of seems
that way.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Or it seems that way, but that's the case for any
sect of religion.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Right, buddhism, taoism, whatever you do have
those people, but I don't thinkthey're the majority well, see,
none normally when we bring thisup, that this has to become
first in your life.
Your religion should be thefirst thing in your life that
you think about when you get upand all that.
I hear it, all you know, oh,but you know my kids and my
family and this and that andthose are interrupting your
(17:27):
spiritual growth.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, and here's the thing you can tie that in with
your kids.
You can tie that in with yourfamily.
All you have to do is takethose ethics, take everything
that you're learning, even ifit's just something you've read
out of a book.
When you take that and youapply it to your life, then it
becomes part of your life.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Right, I mean, I'm sorry.
Just setting a time and a placejust to do your meditations
helps out so much because youhave a specific time and a
specific place and you're alwaysthere at that time and you sit
down and you always sit in thatspot.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, and here's the thing, Most people get up and
have a cup of coffee, or theyhave a cup of tea or whatever.
Right, if you're one of thosepeople and you're fortunate
enough not to have anyinterruptions during that time,
guess what?
There's your meditation,there's your meditation time.
Do a simple affirmation in themornings and look, it's that
simple to tie it into your life.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Look it's that simple , to tie it into your life.
And again, but again, just doit.
Five minutes is better than nominutes, right, you know, two
minutes, one minute is betterthan no minutes.
It's a problem in the pagancommunity.
I'm not sure how we stop it,but to at least start the
conversation.
Can we stop this whole paganstandard time crap, right, and
(18:48):
start taking our religionserious?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It would be nice it would.
It would be nice.
I don't know how we're going tochange it, though If you got
any suggestions, please submitthose.
We'll talk about them inanother episode.
How about that Sounds good?
Just, I mean, Want some coffee.
I want some coffee.
(19:10):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more
information as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(19:41):
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit is the end of our day, so
walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
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If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Let's talk about a subject we're going to piss off
a lot of people about.
Probably Alright, it's calledPagan Standard Time.
Alright, would you like toexplain to people what we are
talking about when we aretalking about Pagan Standard
Time?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Sure, pagan standard time.
Sure have you ever been to apublic ritual and they say this
class is going to happen at thishour or ritual starts at?
Seven, or this event will startat this time right, and then an
hour, hour and a half, twohours later, things are finally
(01:03):
getting started.
Maybe, maybe that's paganstandard time, all right, and I
think this applies to not onlyevents and stuff like that, but
it also applies to I see itrolling over into people's lives
as well yeah we'll get to thatyeah, well, I mean again, and
I'm not I'm not excusing useither because again, setting up
(01:26):
like first degree classes ishard to do.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
When you're sitting there and you get a new student,
interview them and then a monthlater somebody else goes.
I want to start, right, youknow, and then the next month
you got another person, I wantto start and you, you want to,
kind of crabbing these peopleall in one class, you do and
it's hard to this is not thepagan, that this is not pagan
(01:54):
standard time as far as I'mconcerned, because that's a more
of a, that's a logistics andgetting everybody on the same
page okay, but that's one sideof this.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Right could be perceived as pagan standard time
, because people don't see theother side of what's going on
right and this brings a wholenother realm to this, to this
conversation yeah that peopledon't think about, because
sometimes it is nothing butlogistics.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's that that is the hold up right, I mean, we're
not talking about anything fancyor anything like that.
Now again, don't get me wrong.
There are some people who don'tstart ritual until the spirit
moves them, right, I mean, Idon't know how to explain that.
They could be sitting there forfull moon and waiting until the
mood hits, could be.
(02:42):
But here's what makes all thisbad is people have lots.
Yep, people plan things, yep.
It is so freaking common in thepagan community at large.
Oh well, I was going to show upfor this event, or I was going
to go do this, and you know theinformation was supposed to be
(03:02):
out, this is, and you can't geta hold of anybody, right, you
know?
And then, at the last minute,they open up everything for.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, you know, I specifically remember being at
an event, I believe Lady Keegan.
I went with Lady Keegan Rightand we were there and we wanted
to stay for the ritual and thebrochure that they handed out to
everybody said it would happenat this time.
(03:32):
Well, that time rolled aroundand nothing was happening.
People weren't gathering aroundthe circle space, they weren't
prepping the space.
You didn't see anybody doinganything other than what they'd
been doing all day, and that wasconversing with other people,
shopping, going to whateverlittle class was there.
(03:54):
And I stopped and I askedsomebody.
I was like, hey, I thoughtritual was going to be at this
time.
Oh, it's been moved.
Well, you didn't tell anybody.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Why didn't you make an announcement?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Why don't y'all have a schedule board up somewhere
for when changes happen?
You can.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Right and so I don't, but now this was probably 30 to
45 minutes that it took me tofind somebody to answer this
question.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I mean so again, in my eyes, pagan standard time.
So I don't and we're nottalking about fashionably late
like 10, 15 minutes, whatever.
That could purely just be alogistical issue.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I mean again, ritual starting five minutes late.
I'm not going to set my hair onfire over, but when ritual's
two hours late, yeah, that seemsto be an issue.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That seems to be an issue.
I don't understand thementality behind this.
Is it just well, we're justbeing carefree and you know
we're going to let the spiritmove us?
Or is it just?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
being lazy.
Well, I mean, that's kind oflike.
You know.
I've heard of temples wherepeople show up for ritual and
the high priestess apparentlywas sick and then told everybody
to just go home.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
You know.
So again there is this.
I mean I realize the majorityof us are doing this in people's
homes and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
All right.
I mean, there's a ritual comingup here soon in which our
priestess will be out of town.
Right, we do ritual at herhouse.
I have to show up early.
We're still doing ritual, Idon't.
And we're still going to bedoing it on time, right, or at
our specific time.
We say seven o'clock for us.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
We usually do seven.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, you know, but what's so hard about that?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
for us.
We usually do seven, yeah youknow.
But what's so hard about that?
I don't know.
Like I said, I don't, I don'tfully understand it.
I'm sure there's got to be areason behind it, whether it
like I said, whether it be justwell.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I mean, I'll admit we're waiting for the spirit to
move us right.
I mean, I'll admit it.
I mean, most of my jobs havebeen logistics, so doing this
stuff's not that hard right.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Well, and see, even even before I started in on this
path, I was.
I was the type of person whereyou tell me something starts at
five o'clock.
I'm gonna be there 15 minutesearly yeah if I have an
interview scheduled for 7o'clock in the morning, guess
what?
I'm probably going to be therearound 6.30 so I can find
(06:32):
parking, allow for any trafficissues, anything like that, and
then I've got to allow forgetting lost in the hospital or
wherever it is I'm interviewing.
Yeah, I got to allow time forthat.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, I mean, I'm sorry when these people, when we
have these events and stufflike that and people don't do
things on time, nobody everseems to in the pagan community
ever looks at it as, oh, we'reinconveniencing everybody else.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, and well and honestly, I don't hear a lot of
people complaining about iteither, so that makes me think
this is something that they do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, I think it has become so prominent, and so it
is a stereotype of the pagancommunity.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
It has become a stereotype, it's just it, and so
do you think it's also becomesomething that people just eh,
okay, whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, and they don't complain, and they don't
complain, and they don't.
I'm sorry.
People have lives.
You got kids, family, work,travel yeah and all this other
stuff.
And if you run the temple andyou just decide not to do ritual
, you know what about all theseother people who keep on showing
up?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
right, I mean last, mean last that they heard ritual
was going to happen, it wasgoing to start at such and such
time, such time.
So they showed up early,whatever, just to find out it's
been canceled.
Right To me that seems Well andfor us.
I'm not going to say selfish,because a lot of what we do is
(08:03):
selfish, but it just seems likeit's inconsiderate.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Because some people travel 30, 45 minutes to get to
your ritual.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'm sorry.
Going to ritual, going to apagan church or temple or
whatever requires the majorityof times requires some traveling
.
It does, and I'm sorry thatthat is a level of dedication
that you should honor, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
If you're going to have to cancel ritual, that's
one thing.
But let somebody know SomethingIf you've got folks traveling
to your house for ritual andyou're saying I can't do this
tonight, I'm sick or whatever,I'm contagious, right, Whatever
the reason, just reach out toyour group and say hey look, I'm
(08:50):
sorry, but this is thesituation.
No ritual tonight.
I mean.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I have medical issues and blah, blah, blah, and there
are just times I cannotphysically go to ritual, right,
I'm just in too much pain and Imean I'm normally picking up the
phone calling up the lady goinghey, today's a bad day for me,
unfortunately, and I won't bethere, right, but if we're
teaching class that day, I'vegot to go anyway, mm-hmm,
(09:18):
because I made a promise toteach these classes and be there
at this specific time.
Absolutely, yeah.
So, and again, we're back tothe classes.
If I don't do my classes ontime, these people's schedules
are messed up, exactly, yeah,especially if we're doing doing
like classes on the weekends orsomething like that.
Where in the world they gotother things to do, you know?
(09:40):
There's kids baseball games,there's soccer, I mean Right.
So what's the problem?
I don't know.
You know, is this somethingthat we got started in the habit
of and we just continue to doit to this day?
Probably.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Probably.
I mean, it just seems likepeople are just so nonchalant
about it and I think that needsto change.
If we really want to convey apositive image towards paganism,
then we need to be not sayingwe need to be completely
(10:19):
structured.
There is some freedom to whatwe do and we like that, but I
think it comes back to keepingyour word.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
If you say ritual's gonna happen at seven, ritual
happens at seven.
Right.
If you say class is going tohappen at 7, ritual happens at 7
.
Right.
If you say class is going tohappen at 5.30, then class
happens at 5.30.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Well see, it's just like we've always had an
unspoken rule In Temple when weget an email, somebody has to
reply to that email within 24hours.
Within 24 hours, yes, becauseagain, there's a lot of places
where I've emailed and neverheard anything back.
You don't even know if thetemple's even still open.
I know you know so becausenobody ever took their
(11:00):
information down from one ofthese websites or whatever.
I don't.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well and in all honesty, I will admit sometimes
that doesn't happen all the time.
I will admit sometimes thatdoesn't happen all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But I try my best when I'm the one replying.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I try my best to one apologize for the delay, not
trying to make excuses, but justsaying hey look, I didn't get
back to you in a reasonableamount of time and I apologize
for that, but let's continue ourconversation, right Right, you
had an interest in this.
What can we do for you?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
But I do my best and that's the promise that I've
made to myself and to the coven.
I do my best to respond withinthat 24 hours, but again, it's
considerate it's.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Considerate, I mean any response you know.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, it could be anything.
Hey, I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, We've seen your email, read it.
I haven't had to really writedown Richard's response Anything
as long as it's a response.
Right, I mean.
So yes, we did get your email,we have read it.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I mean it's a simple fix.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
I mean it seems to be thecourteous thing to do.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, but like I said , I think somehow or another we
need to change that mentality.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
How many more people would actually come to rituals?
I mean, that's the point.
At the end of the day, thepagan religions are about doing
the ritual itself.
That's part of the point of allof this.
So we have pagans runningaround who never go to ritual.
Would they go to, or only go to, ritual once a year or during
one of these?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
festivals or stuff like that.
That's an interesting question.
Is it because of?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
The structure because they can't get there Do you
understand what I'm saying, isit?
Because of the lack ofstructure.
Sure that causes people just tokind of I give up.
I keep on showing up for ritualand then it's two hours later
and I got to go home and I can't.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Right, and I don't have time.
I don't have time.
I don't have time for this.
I've got to put my kids in bed,I've got animals to feed, I've
got other obligations, so again,so is that a reason?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And if it is, would people be showing up at temples
and covens and all this more ifthere were more of a set time?
Hey, ritual's going to start at7.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I don't care if you're in the mood or not, I
think they would yeah you know,but, like I said, I think I
think changing to that type ofmentality would change the
mindset of other people towardspaganism yes to where it's well.
Okay, so it may not be exactlywhat I believe, but they do have
(13:49):
some structure yes, but otherthan other than.
Oh well, you know, I'm just, Igot my head in the clouds.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Because wouldn't you ask the question if you're this
disorganized on this, howdisorganized are you on your
religion itself?
Right?
If you're going to be teachingme your religion, how
disorganized are you, Right?
Do you even have a classstructure?
Do you have certain goals?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
And don't even get me started on those people that
say well, this is all part ofchaos, right?
Well, yeah, it is chaos, andguess what?
It's not working for you.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Well, I mean again, when people talk about the chaos
and magic and all of this, mostpeople I don't think actually
understands what that chaosreally is.
I don't think they do.
It's not as powerful as theythink it is and it's really hard
to control?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Well, yeah, and it can disrupt your life if you're
not careful.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Because, guess what, it kind of rubs off on you.
Well, I mean, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
It's one of them things you can sit there and I
know people don't like throwingthings away, but yet at some
point or another you're going tohave to go and clean out your
house or you're going to have ahoarding problem you know I
don't mean this is the perfecttime of year to do it.
Everybody's doing springcleaning anyway anyway, but
again, this is where in theworld we see the same thing
(15:07):
being led into your personallife.
It's easy to put stuff off.
I put off ritual.
I can do this Because then Ialso have to ask is how
important is it to you?
If it's so easily, I can do itnext week instead.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, now my only thing about that is is there are
I know that there are peoplewith certain conditions
depression, things like that,where sometimes things get
difficult to do and we're nottalking about that.
By no means are we talkingabout that.
I suffer with that.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But I hate to be this way.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I've had some issues that make me not very motivated.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Right, but I'm just saying but going to ritual
should motivate you in and ofitself.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Well and see, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
If you are a depressed person, you are
depressed.
Maybe ritual is what you need,Right.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
There are lots of times that I force myself to do
things, and it's not because Idon't want to do them, it's
because I physically don't havethe motivation to do it.
Right and I have to forcemyself to do it and I always
especially when it comes toritual class anything coven
related.
Anytime that happens, I alwaysfeel better.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, there's a concept in all of this that we
sort of talk about in Temple andI know a lot of people get
really upset when I talk aboutthis but in our philosophy, your
religion should come first.
Yes, your life should interruptyour religion, not your
religion interrupting your life,absolutely All right.
You know, we're not pagans juston the holidays on full moons,
(16:48):
absolutely Alright.
We're not pagans just on theholidays on full moons.
And just like Christians aren'tjust Christians just on Sundays
, right, even though a fewprobably do, or it kind of seems
that way.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Or it seems that way, but that's the case for any
sect of religion.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Right, buddhism, taoism, whatever you do have
those people, but I don't thinkthey're the majority well, see,
none normally when we bring thisup, that this has to become
first in your life.
Your religion should be thefirst thing in your life that
you think about when you get upand all that.
I hear it, all you know, oh,but you know my kids and my
family and this and that andthose are interrupting your
(17:27):
spiritual growth.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, and here's the thing you can tie that in with
your kids.
You can tie that in with yourfamily.
All you have to do is takethose ethics, take everything
that you're learning, even ifit's just something you've read
out of a book.
When you take that and youapply it to your life, then it
becomes part of your life.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Right, I mean, I'm sorry.
Just setting a time and a placejust to do your meditations
helps out so much because youhave a specific time and a
specific place and you're alwaysthere at that time and you sit
down and you always sit in thatspot.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Well, and here's the thing, Most people get up and
have a cup of coffee, or theyhave a cup of tea or whatever.
Right, if you're one of thosepeople and you're fortunate
enough not to have anyinterruptions during that time,
guess what?
There's your meditation,there's your meditation time.
Do a simple affirmation in themornings and look, it's that
simple to tie it into your life.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Look it's that simple , to tie it into your life.
And again, but again, just doit.
Five minutes is better than nominutes, right, you know, two
minutes, one minute is betterthan no minutes.
It's a problem in the pagancommunity.
I'm not sure how we stop it,but to at least start the
conversation.
Can we stop this whole paganstandard time crap, right, and
(18:48):
start taking our religionserious?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It would be nice it would.
It would be nice.
I don't know how we're going tochange it, though If you got
any suggestions, please submitthose.
We'll talk about them inanother episode.
How about that Sounds good?
Just, I mean, Want some coffee.
I want some coffee.
(19:10):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more
information as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(19:41):
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit is the end of our day, so
walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
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