January 1, 2025 • 21 mins
The episode highlights the seasonal influx of interest in pagan rituals, particularly around Samhain and Beltane. It discusses the balance between accommodating newcomers and maintaining the integrity of established practices, addressing the logistical challenges for clergy during peak times.
• Discussion on the surge of seekers during high pagan holidays
• Comparison of seasonal attendance in Christianity and Paganism
• The importance of open versus closed circles in ritual settings
• Challenges of managing newcomers during significant festivals
• Emphasis on logistics, preparation, and community delegation
• Understanding the energetics of rituals and their impacts
• Suggestions for developing relationships with open circle groups
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyAbba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So we are.
You know, samhain has recentlypassed, we are at the beginning
of the new, the pagan new year.
Yule is upon us and every year,temple goes through a period in
(00:48):
typically, right, it startsright about the beginning of
October, right, and it goesthrough Samhain, where we have
this influx of interest yes,potential students, people
wanting to come to rituals,right, it's.
Yeah.
Yeah, we get more requests forhouse blessings.
Yes, potential students, peoplewanting to come to rituals.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
right, it's yeah.
Yeah, we get more requests forhouse blessings.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yes, and it's always really funny.
So we've all heard the termkeister, right, the Christians
who only go to church twice ayear, right Easter and Christmas
.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Christmas.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So I have decided that we have the Sautains, the
people who pop up every year.
Right, it's Samhain and Beltaneand they want somewhere to go,
somewhere to be, and it's kindof I get it.
(01:43):
I get why it happens.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm not shaming these people, but it is funny.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
No, but we have two things that have to happen.
One, if you're clergy, you haveto be prepared for it Now.
On one hand, it's very temptingto be very motivated by this
and suddenly go, oh my gosh, wehave all this new interest.
This is amazing, and you kindof rush into action.
Don't do it.
(02:10):
Don't do it Because the problemis many of these folks it is
somewhat fly by night.
They're not going to last,they're not going to stick
around and you already haveenough on your plate in
preparation for Samhain orBeltane, whichever one's going
on so often.
What we do is right in thatmonth of October we defer, yeah,
(02:34):
we tell people we would love tomeet with you, but we're in one
of our high, holy time.
We're going to have to meetwith you after.
That's a good indication ofwho's going to stick around
right there.
That is a really really kind ofimportant little piece to this
is can you, can you push them alittle bit?
Can you push them off?
(02:54):
And they're all right with it.
And the other is you knowyou'll, you'll end up you'll
bend over backwards and you'lldrive yourself crazy trying to
accommodate all of this, and itdoes become way too much.
But folks have to understandthat if you're contacting a
coven, a temple, a pagan churchat one of these times of year
(03:16):
and expecting that you're justgoing to be open-armed and
welcomed in, that is not alwaysgoing to be the case.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I mean especially with these two.
The majority of the times,especially in traditional, these
two rituals are normally closedto almost everybody, except for
Exactly Initiates, and thatreally is the difference.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Are you, have you approached an open circle or a
closed circle?
Right, and that's what you haveto know Now.
Open circle is exactly what itsounds like.
Yes, they will welcome you infor that celebration, and
usually they're going to do itoutside.
It's going to be at a publicpark.
It's going to be somewhere youknow that can hold a large
(03:57):
number of people to.
It's going to be a slightlygeneric ritual.
I don't mean that is a badthing.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's just going to be generic standard, right there's
.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
There's not going to be anything to it.
It's going to mirror any othertype of church service, right in
structure, in purpose, in order.
It's going to have a veryfamiliar sort of feel if you've
ever been to any other church, aclosed group.
However, we have business, wehave things that need to happen,
(04:34):
we have specific rights thatare being performed.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
We have specific ways , oh boy.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, we are not simply going to welcome in
anybody, and especially those wedo not know.
At these very important timesthat could really.
First of all, it can throw offyour circle big time.
Second of all, it takes yourattention away.
I am the first to say the lastthing.
(05:02):
The last thing that I want tohave to deal with as a priestess
on a high holy holiday is noobs.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Doing the following.
So why did y'all do it that way?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Why did y'all go in that direction or anything, just
having to be concerned aboutthem.
Because that's the problem,right?
Newbies, new people, we areaware of them constantly.
We have to look out for them,we have to answer questions,
their comfort, their safety,right, all of these things as
(05:35):
well as our own, but it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
It's a lot and I don't want my focus distracted
or divided by that, and at notime as a priest do I ever want
to sit there and force and haveto force a first degree or a
second degree to babysitsomebody so they don't get to
enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Exactly, exactly.
That's a lot of responsibility,so you have to make these
things clear.
If you're running a group, youreally really have to make these
things clear.
If you're running a group, youreally really have to make these
things clear about where youstand on the grands and are you
open to, or is it open circle oris it closed, and make that
(06:16):
public facing knowledge withinyour organization, because
otherwise, yeah, yeah, thesoutanes are going to show up in
force, yeah, and it can getsticky.
And then you know, the otherthing that we see a lot is
families, because, of course, ifyou've got a parent who's a
pagan and they want to go to aservice, they're bringing
(06:39):
everybody right, the whole lot'scoming, which is fine.
Again, there's nothing wrongwith that.
But do you allow children inyour circle, exactly right?
Um, do you, is it?
I mean, do you again, do youhave somebody in place to
babysit said children?
If necessary?
Then you have additional mouthsto feed you have.
(07:03):
There's so much that goes intothat process.
It's a difficult time of yearto try to navigate.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
I mean, I've seen you through this multiple times.
You're you're, you're stressedfor about a month and you know,
I know, I'm constantly callingyou up and texting you.
Okay, yeah, you need anything.
What can I do?
You need me to come over.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
You ain't said nothing well, because it comes
down to the hosting right, thehosting, the hosting party.
So we have ritual at my housewhich means look, my friends, my
family, they know it.
From October 1st to November1st, don't talk to me.
Whatever it is, it has to wait.
Don't call me up.
Do you want to go do this thing?
(07:42):
No.
Do you want to come to thisfall fest?
No.
Do you have time to come helpme?
No, do you want to come to thisfall fest?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
No, do you have time to come help me.
No, I can help you out.
If it exceeds anything, hey, Ineed to drop this off to you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Forget it.
Yeah, no, it's a big old no,because we are between food
preparation and management,right.
Preparation and management,right.
Okay, the homestead itself,indoors, outdoors, the cleaning,
the preparation, getting itready for guests.
(08:15):
Linens make, I mean you, youare a maid to your own home for
a good two weeks, um, if youhave animals making arrangements
there and figuring out what hasto happen and how it's going to
happen.
Parking, you know any any like?
Look for us, right, because wewe get a pretty significant fall
(08:36):
here in North Carolina, right,my, the exterior of my property
leaves and limbs and trimmingand cutting, and you know these
things have to happen as welland I'm not going to have people
show up and the property is amess I mean because I hate to be
this way.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
If you don't realize this, them leads get slip yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's safety, precaution type things too.
Then we get into um ritual, theritual organization, making
sure that we have all thesupplies that we need.
I mean, it is a lot of stuffand usually, again, because it's
a major like you know Zao andBeltane we have additional
(09:16):
preparation beyond that.
Is there an activity or aspecial thing that we're doing
that we need to plan and prepfor?
I mean so delegation iscritical.
Yes, delegation is huge.
Right, having people in placethroughout the organization that
have specific tasks in relationto the event.
(09:38):
Huge and essential.
But, again, it's got to bepeople who've been around long
enough to at least have seen aSamhain prior and understand
what's going to take place andwhat's necessary.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Now, how do we again, if this is what these people
I'm not going to interrupt them,but how do we prevent this?
How do we stop and get thesepeople to come more?
I mean, because there's a tossup here, because I don't want to
interrupt their growth.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Look, it's hard, it's not easy, I can say for me,
when I was a solitary I guess ifyou want to call it that I had
found a group.
I remember going through itwhere every year it would be
like a little hurt in my heart,like a little longing around
(10:35):
that time of year.
It's because it really is likeright.
The modern joke is, you know,girls love fall right.
A leaf falls in Connecticut andcollectively, every woman in
the country pops her head up andrealizes it's boots, uggs and
pumpkin spice season, you know,and we all just lose our minds
and that's adorable.
(10:55):
But for pagans it's even morethan that.
We have a moment of.
The veil is thin, it hits usand it and, and the yes, the,
the decorations and the goingson, it doesn't help it.
We feel like something ismissing, right.
So any intimidation that wemight've felt, any fear, any
(11:19):
apprehension, any I don't know,just barriers that you know,
nervousness that we might haveto reaching out to a group, are
likely to lessen because of thatpull, because we want to find
somewhere to go and someone toconnect with.
But yeah, it's just the wrongtime.
Um, and we do.
(11:40):
We see it again.
We see it in the springtime,it's the same.
Those are the biggies, thoseare the two big turning points
for most of us, where it's themost palpable.
I don't think we do prevent it,I think we just have to be
prepared for it.
Yeah, we just have to know thatit's going to happen and it is
(12:01):
really well and truly talking topeople about their expectations
when they reach out, and Ithink it's about having
alternate resources.
Now, that, to me, is the bigthing, right, like if somebody
contacts us on October 5th andis like I'd like to come meet
with you guys and come toSamhain.
I'm sorry.
Unfortunately we are closed toguests at Samhain, but here is a
(12:24):
group in the area that has anopen circle, right, if you would
like to attend a ritual, youcan do theirs.
But then, please, we can set upa meeting after that and
discuss whatever.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
There's also a part of this that you also got to
understand.
We have to be acutely aware ofwhat happens to people after
ritual.
There are a lot of energies andstuff and I see energy
sometimes and if you've not beenin ritual for a long, period of
time it can kind of or ever orever it can kind of, which is
(13:00):
another reason we tend toespecially on these heavy
rituals, because we're using alot of power, I guess, or
energies.
There's a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
There's so many things taking place, there's so
much in the air, literally right, and I have seen people become
incredibly inebriated after aritual off of just a little bit
of alcohol.
I've seen people become giddyto a point of annoyance where
(13:37):
you just want them to stop it.
I have seen people becomelethargic and almost falling
asleep, kind of you know want,yeah, it affects everyone.
You know, yeah, it affectseveryone differently.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Now I got to ask do you think ritual space is kind
of like doing drugs?
Because we're in there we buildup a tolerance.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It can be, we build.
No, to me it's different.
So for clergy it's not atolerance, we don't have a
choice.
True, we have to learn.
So, okay, this is, this is howI view it.
When you are in ritual spaceand you are able to just be in
(14:21):
it and just sort of flow androck back and forth and let it
kind of run through you andaround you and when you learn to
flow with it when you learn toflow with it you're fine when
you are in any way fighting itor acutely aware of it, or
trying to hold on to
Speaker 4 (14:43):
it, you become a blithering idiot you cannot hold
on to this energy.
It's not yours.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
No, it's not yours, it was never meant to be yours.
And that's the problem itbecomes.
We have to sort of giveourselves.
We have to give into it yes, wegive into it to learn how to
work with it and in it.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
You surrender to it to master it.
I know that sounds very.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
A lot of the things that happen.
We end up and this is, you know, the further along you are, the
harder this becomes right.
We always say the longer you'vebeen, let's say like a third
degree, it's harder to thinkback to when you weren't Right
and we become jaded.
(15:32):
So for us it becomesfrustrating.
Where you know, for instance,circle, circle casting, I see
first degrees or second degreesmake mistakes and I'm like you.
Just you have to pay moreattention to what's happening
inside of circle when otherpeople are casting, so you can
(15:53):
see what should be taking placeand you realize they can't.
Yet right they're trying,they're trying, but they can't.
They're just, it's not.
They don't have that abilityyet.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
They haven't learned how to fully work with it and I
think you're right and I dothink this is a problem on us
spiritually.
We tend to forget yeah, I mean,first degree was a long time
for me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of inevitable too.
I mean, how can we not forget,in a way, like we're, yeah, I
don't know.
It definitely definitelybecomes an interesting situation
that we have to be aware of.
(16:39):
But for beginners it's just alot to deal with, and I mean
even the aftermath of questions.
I cannot imagine havingsomebody have a sauerin be their
first ritual no, and thenimmediately after we have a
(17:00):
flurry of activity and of coursethey have questions and things
they want and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, no, it's too much.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
It's too much you know, it's one thing to sit
there and answer questions abouta full moon, but something like
do you know how many times Iwould sit there and go?
That's a mystery.
That's a mystery.
No, I can't talk about that.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
And there are again.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
There are exceptions to things that we normally do,
the normal rhythm of things atGrands, and those exceptions
will cause even more confusion.
Yeah, so just you know, knowthat they're out there, the
soutanes are.
You know, like I said, it'sinevitable.
It's not a bad thing, but youhave to be prepared.
I think in some cases,depending on the size of a group
(17:50):
, it is even wise to you know,come late August, early
September, go okay.
So this year we need tovolunteer to answer questions
and to field the phone callsfrom the people who are
inevitably going to reach out oremail, and that is something a
(18:11):
first degree could do.
That's a great task for a firstdegree to say, hey, I need you
to contact these folks, talk tothem, set up a meeting for after
that one.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it, I just want you
to say the word one more time.
They're what Soutains.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Soutains we don't have, because it's either that
or it's bellhains.
No, no, no, no, I don't know, no, or bellweens Bellweens, it
doesn't sound as good.
No, but there's a little bit ofpreparation in that.
(18:52):
But it's understanding.
We just we don't have the sameresources for it.
I mean, I think it's lovely,you know, when churches can
accommodate that interest.
It's also a big time of moneymaking for them.
I mean, donations are higher,you have more people coming in
and offering cash and I mean allof those things are wonderful,
(19:16):
but we just don't have that, wedon't have the resources for
that in most cases.
So again, this is where it doesbehoove you to make a decent
relationship with whomever inthe pagan community is doing the
open ritual.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Ideally, ideally, what would be wonderful, very
difficult in some cases, but Imean, it would be lovely to have
a situation where, you know andI would love to do it here in
our area I don't know howfeasible it is, but if you have
four or five groups, it rotatesand every year you have one
(19:56):
hosting group that's doing theopen circle for the entire
community and then everyone elsedoes their you know, individual
things.
I think that that would be aphenomenal idea for the
traditionals to get together andsort of do that for one another
and to to again bolstercommunity relations.
(20:17):
But that's something that'salways been a challenge for us
and you know we're getting alittle better at it, but but it
takes time, yep.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
More coffee, my Lord, more coffee.
Okay, thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(20:54):
discord, twitter of stone andmire.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing
fires, and so it is the end ofour day so walk with me till
morning breaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me Till morning.
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Now here are your hosts, ladyAbba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
So we are.
You know, samhain has recentlypassed, we are at the beginning
of the new, the pagan new year.
Yule is upon us and every year,temple goes through a period in
(00:48):
typically, right, it startsright about the beginning of
October, right, and it goesthrough Samhain, where we have
this influx of interest yes,potential students, people
wanting to come to rituals,right, it's.
Yeah.
Yeah, we get more requests forhouse blessings.
Yes, potential students, peoplewanting to come to rituals.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
right, it's yeah.
Yeah, we get more requests forhouse blessings.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yes, and it's always really funny.
So we've all heard the termkeister, right, the Christians
who only go to church twice ayear, right Easter and Christmas
.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Christmas.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So I have decided that we have the Sautains, the
people who pop up every year.
Right, it's Samhain and Beltaneand they want somewhere to go,
somewhere to be, and it's kindof I get it.
(01:43):
I get why it happens.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm not shaming these people, but it is funny.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
No, but we have two things that have to happen.
One, if you're clergy, you haveto be prepared for it Now.
On one hand, it's very temptingto be very motivated by this
and suddenly go, oh my gosh, wehave all this new interest.
This is amazing, and you kindof rush into action.
Don't do it.
(02:10):
Don't do it Because the problemis many of these folks it is
somewhat fly by night.
They're not going to last,they're not going to stick
around and you already haveenough on your plate in
preparation for Samhain orBeltane, whichever one's going
on so often.
What we do is right in thatmonth of October we defer, yeah,
(02:34):
we tell people we would love tomeet with you, but we're in one
of our high, holy time.
We're going to have to meetwith you after.
That's a good indication ofwho's going to stick around
right there.
That is a really really kind ofimportant little piece to this
is can you, can you push them alittle bit?
Can you push them off?
(02:54):
And they're all right with it.
And the other is you knowyou'll, you'll end up you'll
bend over backwards and you'lldrive yourself crazy trying to
accommodate all of this, and itdoes become way too much.
But folks have to understandthat if you're contacting a
coven, a temple, a pagan churchat one of these times of year
(03:16):
and expecting that you're justgoing to be open-armed and
welcomed in, that is not alwaysgoing to be the case.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I mean especially with these two.
The majority of the times,especially in traditional, these
two rituals are normally closedto almost everybody, except for
Exactly Initiates, and thatreally is the difference.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Are you, have you approached an open circle or a
closed circle?
Right, and that's what you haveto know Now.
Open circle is exactly what itsounds like.
Yes, they will welcome you infor that celebration, and
usually they're going to do itoutside.
It's going to be at a publicpark.
It's going to be somewhere youknow that can hold a large
(03:57):
number of people to.
It's going to be a slightlygeneric ritual.
I don't mean that is a badthing.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's just going to be generic standard, right there's
.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
There's not going to be anything to it.
It's going to mirror any othertype of church service, right in
structure, in purpose, in order.
It's going to have a veryfamiliar sort of feel if you've
ever been to any other church, aclosed group.
However, we have business, wehave things that need to happen,
(04:34):
we have specific rights thatare being performed.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
We have specific ways , oh boy.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, we are not simply going to welcome in
anybody, and especially those wedo not know.
At these very important timesthat could really.
First of all, it can throw offyour circle big time.
Second of all, it takes yourattention away.
I am the first to say the lastthing.
(05:02):
The last thing that I want tohave to deal with as a priestess
on a high holy holiday is noobs.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Doing the following.
So why did y'all do it that way?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Why did y'all go in that direction or anything, just
having to be concerned aboutthem.
Because that's the problem,right?
Newbies, new people, we areaware of them constantly.
We have to look out for them,we have to answer questions,
their comfort, their safety,right, all of these things as
(05:35):
well as our own, but it's a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
It's a lot and I don't want my focus distracted
or divided by that, and at notime as a priest do I ever want
to sit there and force and haveto force a first degree or a
second degree to babysitsomebody so they don't get to
enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Exactly, exactly.
That's a lot of responsibility,so you have to make these
things clear.
If you're running a group, youreally really have to make these
things clear.
If you're running a group, youreally really have to make these
things clear about where youstand on the grands and are you
open to, or is it open circle oris it closed, and make that
(06:16):
public facing knowledge withinyour organization, because
otherwise, yeah, yeah, thesoutanes are going to show up in
force, yeah, and it can getsticky.
And then you know, the otherthing that we see a lot is
families, because, of course, ifyou've got a parent who's a
pagan and they want to go to aservice, they're bringing
(06:39):
everybody right, the whole lot'scoming, which is fine.
Again, there's nothing wrongwith that.
But do you allow children inyour circle, exactly right?
Um, do you, is it?
I mean, do you again, do youhave somebody in place to
babysit said children?
If necessary?
Then you have additional mouthsto feed you have.
(07:03):
There's so much that goes intothat process.
It's a difficult time of yearto try to navigate.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
I mean, I've seen you through this multiple times.
You're you're, you're stressedfor about a month and you know,
I know, I'm constantly callingyou up and texting you.
Okay, yeah, you need anything.
What can I do?
You need me to come over.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
You ain't said nothing well, because it comes
down to the hosting right, thehosting, the hosting party.
So we have ritual at my housewhich means look, my friends, my
family, they know it.
From October 1st to November1st, don't talk to me.
Whatever it is, it has to wait.
Don't call me up.
Do you want to go do this thing?
(07:42):
No.
Do you want to come to thisfall fest?
No.
Do you have time to come helpme?
No, do you want to come to thisfall fest?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
No, do you have time to come help me.
No, I can help you out.
If it exceeds anything, hey, Ineed to drop this off to you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Forget it.
Yeah, no, it's a big old no,because we are between food
preparation and management,right.
Preparation and management,right.
Okay, the homestead itself,indoors, outdoors, the cleaning,
the preparation, getting itready for guests.
(08:15):
Linens make, I mean you, youare a maid to your own home for
a good two weeks, um, if youhave animals making arrangements
there and figuring out what hasto happen and how it's going to
happen.
Parking, you know any any like?
Look for us, right, because wewe get a pretty significant fall
(08:36):
here in North Carolina, right,my, the exterior of my property
leaves and limbs and trimmingand cutting, and you know these
things have to happen as welland I'm not going to have people
show up and the property is amess I mean because I hate to be
this way.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
If you don't realize this, them leads get slip yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's safety, precaution type things too.
Then we get into um ritual, theritual organization, making
sure that we have all thesupplies that we need.
I mean, it is a lot of stuffand usually, again, because it's
a major like you know Zao andBeltane we have additional
(09:16):
preparation beyond that.
Is there an activity or aspecial thing that we're doing
that we need to plan and prepfor?
I mean so delegation iscritical.
Yes, delegation is huge.
Right, having people in placethroughout the organization that
have specific tasks in relationto the event.
(09:38):
Huge and essential.
But, again, it's got to bepeople who've been around long
enough to at least have seen aSamhain prior and understand
what's going to take place andwhat's necessary.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Now, how do we again, if this is what these people
I'm not going to interrupt them,but how do we prevent this?
How do we stop and get thesepeople to come more?
I mean, because there's a tossup here, because I don't want to
interrupt their growth.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Look, it's hard, it's not easy, I can say for me,
when I was a solitary I guess ifyou want to call it that I had
found a group.
I remember going through itwhere every year it would be
like a little hurt in my heart,like a little longing around
(10:35):
that time of year.
It's because it really is likeright.
The modern joke is, you know,girls love fall right.
A leaf falls in Connecticut andcollectively, every woman in
the country pops her head up andrealizes it's boots, uggs and
pumpkin spice season, you know,and we all just lose our minds
and that's adorable.
(10:55):
But for pagans it's even morethan that.
We have a moment of.
The veil is thin, it hits usand it and, and the yes, the,
the decorations and the goingson, it doesn't help it.
We feel like something ismissing, right.
So any intimidation that wemight've felt, any fear, any
(11:19):
apprehension, any I don't know,just barriers that you know,
nervousness that we might haveto reaching out to a group, are
likely to lessen because of thatpull, because we want to find
somewhere to go and someone toconnect with.
But yeah, it's just the wrongtime.
Um, and we do.
(11:40):
We see it again.
We see it in the springtime,it's the same.
Those are the biggies, thoseare the two big turning points
for most of us, where it's themost palpable.
I don't think we do prevent it,I think we just have to be
prepared for it.
Yeah, we just have to know thatit's going to happen and it is
(12:01):
really well and truly talking topeople about their expectations
when they reach out, and Ithink it's about having
alternate resources.
Now, that, to me, is the bigthing, right, like if somebody
contacts us on October 5th andis like I'd like to come meet
with you guys and come toSamhain.
I'm sorry.
Unfortunately we are closed toguests at Samhain, but here is a
(12:24):
group in the area that has anopen circle, right, if you would
like to attend a ritual, youcan do theirs.
But then, please, we can set upa meeting after that and
discuss whatever.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
There's also a part of this that you also got to
understand.
We have to be acutely aware ofwhat happens to people after
ritual.
There are a lot of energies andstuff and I see energy
sometimes and if you've not beenin ritual for a long, period of
time it can kind of or ever orever it can kind of, which is
(13:00):
another reason we tend toespecially on these heavy
rituals, because we're using alot of power, I guess, or
energies.
There's a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
There's so many things taking place, there's so
much in the air, literally right, and I have seen people become
incredibly inebriated after aritual off of just a little bit
of alcohol.
I've seen people become giddyto a point of annoyance where
(13:37):
you just want them to stop it.
I have seen people becomelethargic and almost falling
asleep, kind of you know want,yeah, it affects everyone.
You know, yeah, it affectseveryone differently.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Now I got to ask do you think ritual space is kind
of like doing drugs?
Because we're in there we buildup a tolerance.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It can be, we build.
No, to me it's different.
So for clergy it's not atolerance, we don't have a
choice.
True, we have to learn.
So, okay, this is, this is howI view it.
When you are in ritual spaceand you are able to just be in
(14:21):
it and just sort of flow androck back and forth and let it
kind of run through you andaround you and when you learn to
flow with it when you learn toflow with it you're fine when
you are in any way fighting itor acutely aware of it, or
trying to hold on to
Speaker 4 (14:43):
it, you become a blithering idiot you cannot hold
on to this energy.
It's not yours.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
No, it's not yours, it was never meant to be yours.
And that's the problem itbecomes.
We have to sort of giveourselves.
We have to give into it yes, wegive into it to learn how to
work with it and in it.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
You surrender to it to master it.
I know that sounds very.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
A lot of the things that happen.
We end up and this is, you know, the further along you are, the
harder this becomes right.
We always say the longer you'vebeen, let's say like a third
degree, it's harder to thinkback to when you weren't Right
and we become jaded.
(15:32):
So for us it becomesfrustrating.
Where you know, for instance,circle, circle casting, I see
first degrees or second degreesmake mistakes and I'm like you.
Just you have to pay moreattention to what's happening
inside of circle when otherpeople are casting, so you can
(15:53):
see what should be taking placeand you realize they can't.
Yet right they're trying,they're trying, but they can't.
They're just, it's not.
They don't have that abilityyet.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
They haven't learned how to fully work with it and I
think you're right and I dothink this is a problem on us
spiritually.
We tend to forget yeah, I mean,first degree was a long time
for me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of inevitable too.
I mean, how can we not forget,in a way, like we're, yeah, I
don't know.
It definitely definitelybecomes an interesting situation
that we have to be aware of.
(16:39):
But for beginners it's just alot to deal with, and I mean
even the aftermath of questions.
I cannot imagine havingsomebody have a sauerin be their
first ritual no, and thenimmediately after we have a
(17:00):
flurry of activity and of coursethey have questions and things
they want and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, no, it's too much.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
It's too much you know, it's one thing to sit
there and answer questions abouta full moon, but something like
do you know how many times Iwould sit there and go?
That's a mystery.
That's a mystery.
No, I can't talk about that.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
And there are again.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
There are exceptions to things that we normally do,
the normal rhythm of things atGrands, and those exceptions
will cause even more confusion.
Yeah, so just you know, knowthat they're out there, the
soutanes are.
You know, like I said, it'sinevitable.
It's not a bad thing, but youhave to be prepared.
I think in some cases,depending on the size of a group
(17:50):
, it is even wise to you know,come late August, early
September, go okay.
So this year we need tovolunteer to answer questions
and to field the phone callsfrom the people who are
inevitably going to reach out oremail, and that is something a
(18:11):
first degree could do.
That's a great task for a firstdegree to say, hey, I need you
to contact these folks, talk tothem, set up a meeting for after
that one.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it, I just want you
to say the word one more time.
They're what Soutains.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Soutains we don't have, because it's either that
or it's bellhains.
No, no, no, no, I don't know, no, or bellweens Bellweens, it
doesn't sound as good.
No, but there's a little bit ofpreparation in that.
(18:52):
But it's understanding.
We just we don't have the sameresources for it.
I mean, I think it's lovely,you know, when churches can
accommodate that interest.
It's also a big time of moneymaking for them.
I mean, donations are higher,you have more people coming in
and offering cash and I mean allof those things are wonderful,
(19:16):
but we just don't have that, wedon't have the resources for
that in most cases.
So again, this is where it doesbehoove you to make a decent
relationship with whomever inthe pagan community is doing the
open ritual.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Ideally, ideally, what would be wonderful, very
difficult in some cases, but Imean, it would be lovely to have
a situation where, you know andI would love to do it here in
our area I don't know howfeasible it is, but if you have
four or five groups, it rotatesand every year you have one
(19:56):
hosting group that's doing theopen circle for the entire
community and then everyone elsedoes their you know, individual
things.
I think that that would be aphenomenal idea for the
traditionals to get together andsort of do that for one another
and to to again bolstercommunity relations.
(20:17):
But that's something that'salways been a challenge for us
and you know we're getting alittle better at it, but but it
takes time, yep.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
More coffee, my Lord, more coffee.
Okay, thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempelseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(20:54):
discord, twitter of stone andmire.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing
fires, and so it is the end ofour day so walk with me till
morning breaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me Till morning.
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