November 5, 2025 • 23 mins
The year doesn’t truly start when everything blooms—it starts when the world goes quiet. We step into Samhain to ask why so many traditions begin in darkness, what that silence invites us to notice, and how the cold months can become a steady practice of reflection instead of a stretch to endure.
We shift into practical shadow work made safer through community: rituals that surface hard truths, shared space that makes vulnerability possible, and small, grounded steps that keep anyone from getting lost in the abyss. This is a season for inventory—naming patterns, letting old stories rest, and choosing what to carry into the light.
If the Wheel of the Year has ever felt confusing, we untangle it by separating the two parallel myths: the goddess cycle centered on the Grand Sabbats and the god cycle threaded through the solar festivals. Each path carries its own rhythm—death to maiden to mother to elder for the goddess; birth, rise, peak, and decline for the god—intersecting without losing shape. We offer a new frame: think spiral, not wheel, a double-helix of time where lessons compound and renewal keeps returning. Press play for a grounded guide to seasonal spirituality, emotional resilience, and myth made useful. If this conversation resonated, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so others can find the show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
Welcome to Pegan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
SPEAKER_04 (00:26):
I'm all right.
So we're getting close to Salin.
We are.
You know, uh, which is uhtranslates roughly to summer's
end, which is the beginning ofthe Celtic year, or majority of
times considered the beginningof the year.
(00:47):
But why winter?
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
You know, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_04 (00:51):
All right.
Why is the beginning of summernot a beginning of spring?
Is that not a new growingseason?
SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Well, it is, and you know, you would think that
that's the time of renewal, soit should be the beginning.
You would think.
SPEAKER_04 (01:09):
You would think, wouldn't you?
But yeah, I'm I'm being seriousthough, but yeah, uh everybody's
new year seems to be in winter.
We we we celebrate the death ofa year, not the birth of a year.
Right since when we're going tosay one the world's dying off.
We there's a saying that we havein our temple which you must go
(01:32):
through darkness to enjoy thelight.
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (01:36):
All right.
In other words, you you muststruggle, you have to go through
hardships to learn to grow, tobe stronger.
Not everything can be perfectall the time.
SPEAKER_03 (01:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (01:50):
All right.
This to us is a us mimicking thecycles of nature itself.
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
Well, yeah, because in the winter time everything
dies off, things are strugglingto some things are struggling to
grow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (02:07):
And there are certain things that you were
doing to prep for next year tooon that, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (02:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (02:13):
You know, and again, think about the olden days when
all this first started.
Um how many times uh have we satthere and said people used to
have to sleep with a livestockduring the winter to keep from
freezing?
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (02:27):
You know, and a lot of people look at us going, what
are you talking about?
That's kind of like most peoplehave forgotten the reason women
were stay-at-home moms for themajority of history, it took
that was a more than a full-timejob to run a household in and of
itself.
You didn't have time, you didn'thave time to do anything else.
(02:50):
You know, you were you wereprepping food literally from
scratch.
You had to make a bunch of otherstuff before you could make the
main meal.
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (03:07):
Just like summer.
Just the story of thegrasshopper and the ant.
SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:12):
Again, comes up during this time.
The idea is that we have to gothrough sorrow.
We have to go through thedarkness.
There are times in our liveswhen we are depressed, but it
don't last.
It will pass over time.
I mean, I understand there arepeople out there, and I know
there's probably a few peoplesitting there going, well, my
(03:34):
depression lasts all year round.
I understand that there arepeople out there that does that.
But once you go through it, onceyou get to the other side,
things tend to be better.
SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
Because again, Oh, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:47):
Well, see, I don't know I think a main problem we
have now, especially in societyas a whole, is nobody ever wants
to feel bad feelings.
SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
Yeah, it does seem that way, don't it?
SPEAKER_04 (03:59):
You're with me.
You know, I I nobody wants tofeel depressed, nobody wants to
feel sad, nobody wants to feelbad about that.
They don't mind getting angry.
They don't mind being happy, butthey don't want all these uh
Well, and I mean honestly, I canunderstand that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
I mean, I don't like I don't like feeling down and
out.
I don't like feeling depressed.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
Who does?
It happens, it happens, youknow.
Don't get me wrong, there's alot of things we don't like.
I know there's other thingsgoing on in all of this, like,
you know, if you're notdepressed and you have to take
antidepressant medicine for likepain and stuff, yes, it has a
tendency to make you depressed alot.
(04:41):
All right.
So again, sometimes there arethings in our lives we have to
outweigh, which is the for thelack of a better word, which
cross is easier for us to bearthan others.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
There's a lot of times when we go through this
darkness, we live, we we tend towant to put extra stuff on there
because we want to think it's sodeep.
That it's so endless and allthis other stuff.
But there is a flip side to it.
The the sun does come back out.
Nature shows us these cyclesalways happen, they happen
(05:19):
within side of us.
We just have to embrace thosecycles.
SPEAKER_02 (05:23):
Exactly.
And that's and that's part ofwhat this is all about.
I mean there are lessons to belearned.
There's wisdom Yeah, wisdom tobe gained.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (05:34):
Wisdom to be gained through these things.
All right.
I mean, if you're feeling bad,if being depressed makes you
more depressed, there's aproblem there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
All right.
When you're depressed, you needto try to look upwards.
Again, during these dark timesand stuff like that, when we're
going into these months, and Iknow there's some people out
there that get depressed becauseof the lack of light.
Right.
I I don't know how common thatis.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
I don't either, but I know it does happen.
There are, you know, there aretreatments for those.
SPEAKER_04 (06:12):
Right.
But again, going through thisgoing through bouts of
depression on an average day isnot that big of a deal.
When you're depressed 24-7 allthe time, that's when you need
help.
SPEAKER_03 (06:29):
Right.
That's when there's an issue.
SPEAKER_04 (06:31):
There's a there's an issue.
Uh again, people do getdepressed for a few days and
then we'll c snap out of it.
But this is the time of the yearin which we're looking at people
going, no, we want to look atthese shadows, we want to look
at this darkness, we want tolook at what makes us afraid.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (06:50):
All right.
And again, it it's gettingpeople, and I know a lot of
people sit there and go, Well,that's shadow work, that's
shadow work.
Yeah, but there's there issomething about a little bit
different doing it around thistime of year.
SPEAKER_02 (07:01):
And what is that?
SPEAKER_04 (07:02):
Well, it's your mindset's already there.
Nature, you're flowing with thenature.
Okay.
All right, just like the treesare withdrawing into themselves
and the animals are stocking upand getting ready for the long
winter nap, so should we.
This should be the time when wedig into those fears and those
(07:24):
things we don't like aboutourselves.
We're in the darkness already.
And the majority of times isonce you're in the darkness and
you start to explore it, youstart to realize it's not as
scary as you think it is.
SPEAKER_03 (07:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (07:37):
That the majority of the fears are in your head and
are overdrawn.
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
And it does become easy, it does become easier to
navigate after a while.
SPEAKER_04 (07:50):
I mean, I I will admit, yes, there is the quote
unquote abyss.
And if you stare in there toolong and stuff like that, you
can get trapped in there and goto a really dark place.
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
Yeah, that's easy to do.
SPEAKER_04 (08:05):
Right.
This is not what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about taking moreof a clinical look at the stuff
that you need to take care of inyour life.
SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
Right.
It's like um it's like aninventory of sorts.
SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
Exactly.
You know, and again, this is agood time to reflect and make
sure all your rituals reflectthese the this time, this dark
time of the season to those moreinward things about yourself and
to look into those over the nextfew months.
You over the next three or fourmonths and next couple of
(08:41):
Sabbaths, I would suggesttiples.
Hey, why don't y'all think aboutthis?
Do a little bit more rougher andget up more of them harder
emotions during this time.
SPEAKER_03 (08:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (08:53):
So people can experience this in a safe place
like ritual space.
SPEAKER_03 (08:58):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (09:00):
Share those emotions with others, especially in the
presence of the gods.
I mean, that helps out a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
Yeah, part of it is being vulnerable during this
time.
SPEAKER_04 (09:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
Especially if if you're part of a coven, you're
part of a temple, you should berelying on your on your church
members to help you through alot of those times and a lot of
those issues that you're workingthrough.
Not completely.
SPEAKER_04 (09:28):
This is not again, through all this, this is not a
time to isolate yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (09:33):
No, it's not, no.
SPEAKER_04 (09:35):
This is this is a time to do the complete
opposite.
Go into those dark places, butsee your friends and your family
more often.
SPEAKER_02 (09:43):
Well, it's just like um it it's it's just like you
know, sleeping with your cattle.
SPEAKER_04 (09:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
You're still you're using them for a purpose, but
they're benefiting from it aswell.
SPEAKER_04 (09:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
But you're not isolating yourself.
SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
No.
No.
And we need to do the samethings with our families and
friends.
unknown (10:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:06):
During this time of season, we should be pulling
them closer.
Hence the reason why in theworld we have so many um
secular, a lot of the secularholidays that we have, like here
in the United States, believe itor not, yes, I'm calling Chris
um Christmas secular.
All right, because Christmas,the whole Santa Claus and stuff,
(10:27):
that's secular to me.
And the Jesus blood isreligious.
SPEAKER_03 (10:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:34):
This is what's going on.
All the all these holidays seemto be in the winter time, and
it's to bring families together.
SPEAKER_03 (10:41):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:42):
Because we are in the darkness.
We do need those hand holding.
All right.
Hence the reason why in theworld we have those.
Notice we don't have that manyholidays in the spring.
I mean, we have our Sabbaths andour holidays, but we don't have
too many celebrations just inspring and summer.
You you with me when I'm sayingto the same extent we do like
(11:03):
Christmas or New Year's.
SPEAKER_03 (11:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (11:07):
I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand little towns
and stuff have their springfestivals and their fall
festival.
That's not what what I'm talkingabout here.
SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Well, no, but you can you can definitely include
those because that's a communitything.
SPEAKER_04 (11:21):
It is, but I'm just talking about this large scale
that seems to encompass ever youknow the whole entire country or
the world in itself.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, in general, not justsome small community out in the
middle of nowhere.
Right.
So that's what in the worldwe're doing in this time.
(11:44):
All right.
It it's not a bad thing, but wemust endure this to enjoy the
light because how do you knowwhat's good if you ain't had
what's bad?
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
That's a good point.
SPEAKER_04 (11:55):
How do you enjoy the sweet without the bitter?
I mean, and and don't even getme started because again, look
at human behavior.
How many people do the spicysweet?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (12:06):
The sweet and sour and all that, these extremes,
all right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:11):
I don't I don't do the sweet and sour, but I will
definitely do the spicy sweet.
SPEAKER_04 (12:16):
I hate the sour too.
But I will I'm like you, I'll dothe spicy.
SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (12:23):
Chicken cooking, what?
Um honey and um what like ajalapeno sauce or salsa verde or
something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:33):
Yes.
That is honey.
SPEAKER_04 (12:38):
Well, I'm trying to think of the powder, uh, the um
cayenne powder.
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Oh, cayenne.
SPEAKER_04 (12:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Cayenne and honey on yourchicken before you bake it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Oh, nothing like fresh cayenne out of the garden.
SPEAKER_04 (12:52):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (12:54):
Anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Well, that was just a that was a rant on food.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
Uh but again, to me, that's what this time period is.
Hence the reason we have toenjoy the darkness to be able to
enjoy the light.
You understand this conceptconcept when you have to get up
in the middle of the night to gopee on a cold day and you get
back into your warm bedafterwards.
Right.
(13:26):
That's what this time issupposed to be like.
All right.
So don't take it with a negativeemotion or anything like that.
Embrace it full on.
I got a question not too longago.
Someone wrote us, hey, couldy'all go over the Will of the
Year myth cycle?
SPEAKER_02 (13:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (13:46):
A little confusing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
Well, it is confusing.
SPEAKER_04 (13:49):
Right?
So so let's walk through itfirst, okay?
unknown (13:52):
Right?
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
And we're gonna start at the beginning of our
year, which is Sawin, right?
At Sawin, the goddess is prone,the god is dead, he's going into
the underworld.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (14:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:05):
Then we go to Yul.
She's a maiden, she she's thepregnant mother, about to give
birth.
SPEAKER_03 (14:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:14):
The sun god, and he's a child.
Then we move to invulk.
And at embulk so gentleman, andshe's a young maiden.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
Mm-hmm.
And they're they're courting,yeah, dating.
SPEAKER_04 (14:33):
Dating, courting, maybe a little bit more.
Maybe and then we move to Star.
Now the star she's the turn,she's coming into her fluition.
She's suddenly become going fromchildhood into adulthood.
She's becoming a woman.
SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:51):
Correct?
Right.
He's doing he's roughly doingthe same thing, right?
SPEAKER_03 (14:56):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (14:58):
And then we move to Delta.
Now we're talking more adultsand what adult things.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Hooking up.
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (15:08):
Alright.
So so we know what this is goingon here.
We move to Setha.
Setha's a little bit more of adowntime.
Enjoying spring and summer andbeginnings of the bounties of
our harvest, right?
SPEAKER_03 (15:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (15:22):
Everything's growing, everything's in its
cycle.
He's at his peak of manhood, thewhole nine yards.
He's like finally turned intothat chieftain.
Again, nothing dramatic reallygoing on now.
Then we move to Linassa.
And Linassa, it's a hard it's aagain, it's a harvest.
Things are starting, certainthings are starting to come to
(15:44):
fruition.
She's allowing things to matureto get ready to die, and so we
can pick them.
And the home nine yards, becauseit's the first harvest.
Then we move to Aban.
Second harvest is the fall.
Sort of considered late in lifefor the gods.
(16:09):
And then moving on to that one,in which he's dead.
Why does this all sound soconfusing?
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
Because it is.
Well, in some ways it is,because we've actually got two
different cycles running.
SPEAKER_04 (16:24):
That's right.
We got two different storiesrunning side by side.
SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
And we're and when you do the wheel of the year
like this, you're overlaying,and that's where the confusion
comes in.
SPEAKER_04 (16:37):
Right.
So again, if we take a momentand we say, okay, grands are
about the goddess.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (16:45):
And all the lessers are about the god.
SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (16:50):
So then if we go back and we look at just the
story of the grands, what do wewind up with?
SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
Well, we have en bulk.
SPEAKER_04 (16:58):
No, no, start at Soin.
SPEAKER_02 (17:00):
Well, yeah, Salwan.
Which is death.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
We would skip Joel and go to Mbulk, in which she's
the maiden.
She's trying to get pregnant.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
Right, because Mbulk is in the belly.
SPEAKER_04 (17:15):
In the belly, right?
She's trying to get pregnant, orthe whole process there.
She's not showing yet.
SPEAKER_03 (17:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:22):
And then we move to the next grand.
Then we move to the next grand,which is Beltane, in which she
is in her full ripeness.
She is the pregnant mother inall her glory.
Right.
Then we move on to Lanasa, whichagain is her and her old age.
Stone given birth, pretty much,and is heading on into old age.
SPEAKER_03 (17:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (17:46):
Just in time for Salwin.
SPEAKER_03 (17:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:49):
Now that makes a little bit better sense, don't
it?
It keeps it easier, but keepstraight.
SPEAKER_02 (17:53):
Yeah, it it flows a little better.
Yeah.
Flows easy.
SPEAKER_04 (17:56):
Well, to do the God story, we have to start instead
of in Salwin, we have to startin Yule.
He's born.
Then he goes into adulthoodwhere he, her, and can do what
he needs to do.
So Stara.
SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
Go figure.
Go figure.
SPEAKER_04 (18:15):
Then what Sabbath do we have?
What's the next Litha?
Or solstice.
Right.
Litha.
He's at his ripened manhood.
He is the thief then.
He is the father of the clan.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
He's at his peak.
SPEAKER_04 (18:28):
Just in time to go to Maybon.
Where now he's starting towither away and preparing to die
just in time to be reborn atYule.
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (18:40):
This is why it's so confusing.
SPEAKER_02 (18:46):
But yeah, so you have to separate, you have to
actually separate the two.
SPEAKER_04 (18:50):
Right.
Because the grand are seasonal.
This is supposed to be thechanges between summer and
winter, fall, and this is thoseare what those are.
Where the lessers are solarevents.
I think this illustrates 100% alot of pagan thought.
Because what it is is he's onhis journey, she's on hers, but
(19:14):
we see where they interact witheach other throughout the year,
through their stories, throughtheir viewpoint, balancing each
other out, and taking a turn tomove on, to move the wheel
further to the next cycle.
Right?
Now, what you got to rememberalso is that technically we
don't that cycle as necessarilya wheel, it's more of a spiral.
(19:37):
So again, continue overlapping,building on top of each other
over and over again.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
So on okay, on that note, you said spiral.
How how do we how do you createa spiral out of that?
SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
Out of two circles?
SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (19:57):
Well again, if you s if you were able to see it from
the side or and rotate themaround each other, if you looked
at it from the side, it wouldlook more and more like a double
helix.
The representation of the humanout of all of this.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Right.
I think at some point it wouldturn in, it would kind of look
like a double helix, dependingon how far.
Yeah, depending on how far youstretch it out, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:26):
Again, that's one of the reasons it's so confusing
because again, technicallythey're two different myths
stories going on simultaneously.
SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
They yeah, they do they do overlap at some point.
Right.
Right.
But not completely.
SPEAKER_04 (20:42):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (20:43):
And so I think that's where that's where this
person who asked the questionwas coming from because it is I
mean, if you just look at it asit is, flat on a piece of paper.
SPEAKER_04 (20:56):
The history I was told about this was the Celts
followed the four grands.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (21:02):
Right?
And and they didn't start eventouching the lessers until after
their encounters with Rome, whodid.
So that sort of that culturesort of weaved its that part of
that culture sort of weaveditself into the Celtic society
and was sort of brought down tous.
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
That's kind of the way I that's the way I
understood it too.
So right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:28):
I mean again, are we a hundred percent sure this is
you know what they did and thewhat they believed?
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
No.
SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
I don't think anybody will.
SPEAKER_02 (21:34):
No, we'll never be sure.
SPEAKER_04 (21:37):
Not some scholar professor that just sat there
and studied, I just made myselfand I.
SPEAKER_03 (21:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:46):
I wish there was more I could tell you, but
that's as simple as that cyclecan get.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
It it it does simplify it.
Right.
I mean, it does simplify it tothe point where, okay, now it
makes better sense.
SPEAKER_04 (21:58):
Right.
And again, it's very vague andvery simple.
It can get a whole lot morecertain traditions, it can be a
whole lot more complicated.
This is the way we look at it inour tradition.
SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
And it seems to work for us, so I was gonna say if uh
if anybody has any additionalideas, feel free to let us know.
SPEAKER_04 (22:18):
We love ideas, comments, and share.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
Let's get some coffee.
SPEAKER_04 (22:23):
Please share the podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (22:27):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
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SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya steel blazing fires.
And so it is the end of ourdays, so walk with me till
morning breaks, and so it is theend of our days, so walk with me
(23:11):
till morning break.
Welcome to Pegan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content, pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
SPEAKER_04 (00:26):
I'm all right.
So we're getting close to Salin.
We are.
You know, uh, which is uhtranslates roughly to summer's
end, which is the beginning ofthe Celtic year, or majority of
times considered the beginningof the year.
(00:47):
But why winter?
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
You know, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_04 (00:51):
All right.
Why is the beginning of summernot a beginning of spring?
Is that not a new growingseason?
SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Well, it is, and you know, you would think that
that's the time of renewal, soit should be the beginning.
You would think.
SPEAKER_04 (01:09):
You would think, wouldn't you?
But yeah, I'm I'm being seriousthough, but yeah, uh everybody's
new year seems to be in winter.
We we we celebrate the death ofa year, not the birth of a year.
Right since when we're going tosay one the world's dying off.
We there's a saying that we havein our temple which you must go
(01:32):
through darkness to enjoy thelight.
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (01:36):
All right.
In other words, you you muststruggle, you have to go through
hardships to learn to grow, tobe stronger.
Not everything can be perfectall the time.
SPEAKER_03 (01:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (01:50):
All right.
This to us is a us mimicking thecycles of nature itself.
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
Well, yeah, because in the winter time everything
dies off, things are strugglingto some things are struggling to
grow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (02:07):
And there are certain things that you were
doing to prep for next year tooon that, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (02:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (02:13):
You know, and again, think about the olden days when
all this first started.
Um how many times uh have we satthere and said people used to
have to sleep with a livestockduring the winter to keep from
freezing?
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (02:27):
You know, and a lot of people look at us going, what
are you talking about?
That's kind of like most peoplehave forgotten the reason women
were stay-at-home moms for themajority of history, it took
that was a more than a full-timejob to run a household in and of
itself.
You didn't have time, you didn'thave time to do anything else.
(02:50):
You know, you were you wereprepping food literally from
scratch.
You had to make a bunch of otherstuff before you could make the
main meal.
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (03:07):
Just like summer.
Just the story of thegrasshopper and the ant.
SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:12):
Again, comes up during this time.
The idea is that we have to gothrough sorrow.
We have to go through thedarkness.
There are times in our liveswhen we are depressed, but it
don't last.
It will pass over time.
I mean, I understand there arepeople out there, and I know
there's probably a few peoplesitting there going, well, my
(03:34):
depression lasts all year round.
I understand that there arepeople out there that does that.
But once you go through it, onceyou get to the other side,
things tend to be better.
SPEAKER_02 (03:44):
Because again, Oh, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:47):
Well, see, I don't know I think a main problem we
have now, especially in societyas a whole, is nobody ever wants
to feel bad feelings.
SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
Yeah, it does seem that way, don't it?
SPEAKER_04 (03:59):
You're with me.
You know, I I nobody wants tofeel depressed, nobody wants to
feel sad, nobody wants to feelbad about that.
They don't mind getting angry.
They don't mind being happy, butthey don't want all these uh
Well, and I mean honestly, I canunderstand that.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
I mean, I don't like I don't like feeling down and
out.
I don't like feeling depressed.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
Who does?
It happens, it happens, youknow.
Don't get me wrong, there's alot of things we don't like.
I know there's other thingsgoing on in all of this, like,
you know, if you're notdepressed and you have to take
antidepressant medicine for likepain and stuff, yes, it has a
tendency to make you depressed alot.
(04:41):
All right.
So again, sometimes there arethings in our lives we have to
outweigh, which is the for thelack of a better word, which
cross is easier for us to bearthan others.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
There's a lot of times when we go through this
darkness, we live, we we tend towant to put extra stuff on there
because we want to think it's sodeep.
That it's so endless and allthis other stuff.
But there is a flip side to it.
The the sun does come back out.
Nature shows us these cyclesalways happen, they happen
(05:19):
within side of us.
We just have to embrace thosecycles.
SPEAKER_02 (05:23):
Exactly.
And that's and that's part ofwhat this is all about.
I mean there are lessons to belearned.
There's wisdom Yeah, wisdom tobe gained.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (05:34):
Wisdom to be gained through these things.
All right.
I mean, if you're feeling bad,if being depressed makes you
more depressed, there's aproblem there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (05:48):
All right.
When you're depressed, you needto try to look upwards.
Again, during these dark timesand stuff like that, when we're
going into these months, and Iknow there's some people out
there that get depressed becauseof the lack of light.
Right.
I I don't know how common thatis.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
I don't either, but I know it does happen.
There are, you know, there aretreatments for those.
SPEAKER_04 (06:12):
Right.
But again, going through thisgoing through bouts of
depression on an average day isnot that big of a deal.
When you're depressed 24-7 allthe time, that's when you need
help.
SPEAKER_03 (06:29):
Right.
That's when there's an issue.
SPEAKER_04 (06:31):
There's a there's an issue.
Uh again, people do getdepressed for a few days and
then we'll c snap out of it.
But this is the time of the yearin which we're looking at people
going, no, we want to look atthese shadows, we want to look
at this darkness, we want tolook at what makes us afraid.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (06:50):
All right.
And again, it it's gettingpeople, and I know a lot of
people sit there and go, Well,that's shadow work, that's
shadow work.
Yeah, but there's there issomething about a little bit
different doing it around thistime of year.
SPEAKER_02 (07:01):
And what is that?
SPEAKER_04 (07:02):
Well, it's your mindset's already there.
Nature, you're flowing with thenature.
Okay.
All right, just like the treesare withdrawing into themselves
and the animals are stocking upand getting ready for the long
winter nap, so should we.
This should be the time when wedig into those fears and those
(07:24):
things we don't like aboutourselves.
We're in the darkness already.
And the majority of times isonce you're in the darkness and
you start to explore it, youstart to realize it's not as
scary as you think it is.
SPEAKER_03 (07:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (07:37):
That the majority of the fears are in your head and
are overdrawn.
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
And it does become easy, it does become easier to
navigate after a while.
SPEAKER_04 (07:50):
I mean, I I will admit, yes, there is the quote
unquote abyss.
And if you stare in there toolong and stuff like that, you
can get trapped in there and goto a really dark place.
All right.
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
Yeah, that's easy to do.
SPEAKER_04 (08:05):
Right.
This is not what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about taking moreof a clinical look at the stuff
that you need to take care of inyour life.
SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
Right.
It's like um it's like aninventory of sorts.
SPEAKER_04 (08:19):
Exactly.
You know, and again, this is agood time to reflect and make
sure all your rituals reflectthese the this time, this dark
time of the season to those moreinward things about yourself and
to look into those over the nextfew months.
You over the next three or fourmonths and next couple of
(08:41):
Sabbaths, I would suggesttiples.
Hey, why don't y'all think aboutthis?
Do a little bit more rougher andget up more of them harder
emotions during this time.
SPEAKER_03 (08:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (08:53):
So people can experience this in a safe place
like ritual space.
SPEAKER_03 (08:58):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04 (09:00):
Share those emotions with others, especially in the
presence of the gods.
I mean, that helps out a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
Yeah, part of it is being vulnerable during this
time.
SPEAKER_04 (09:10):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
Especially if if you're part of a coven, you're
part of a temple, you should berelying on your on your church
members to help you through alot of those times and a lot of
those issues that you're workingthrough.
Not completely.
SPEAKER_04 (09:28):
This is not again, through all this, this is not a
time to isolate yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (09:33):
No, it's not, no.
SPEAKER_04 (09:35):
This is this is a time to do the complete
opposite.
Go into those dark places, butsee your friends and your family
more often.
SPEAKER_02 (09:43):
Well, it's just like um it it's it's just like you
know, sleeping with your cattle.
SPEAKER_04 (09:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
You're still you're using them for a purpose, but
they're benefiting from it aswell.
SPEAKER_04 (09:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
But you're not isolating yourself.
SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
No.
No.
And we need to do the samethings with our families and
friends.
unknown (10:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:06):
During this time of season, we should be pulling
them closer.
Hence the reason why in theworld we have so many um
secular, a lot of the secularholidays that we have, like here
in the United States, believe itor not, yes, I'm calling Chris
um Christmas secular.
All right, because Christmas,the whole Santa Claus and stuff,
(10:27):
that's secular to me.
And the Jesus blood isreligious.
SPEAKER_03 (10:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:34):
This is what's going on.
All the all these holidays seemto be in the winter time, and
it's to bring families together.
SPEAKER_03 (10:41):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (10:42):
Because we are in the darkness.
We do need those hand holding.
All right.
Hence the reason why in theworld we have those.
Notice we don't have that manyholidays in the spring.
I mean, we have our Sabbaths andour holidays, but we don't have
too many celebrations just inspring and summer.
You you with me when I'm sayingto the same extent we do like
(11:03):
Christmas or New Year's.
SPEAKER_03 (11:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (11:07):
I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand little towns
and stuff have their springfestivals and their fall
festival.
That's not what what I'm talkingabout here.
SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Well, no, but you can you can definitely include
those because that's a communitything.
SPEAKER_04 (11:21):
It is, but I'm just talking about this large scale
that seems to encompass ever youknow the whole entire country or
the world in itself.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, in general, not justsome small community out in the
middle of nowhere.
Right.
So that's what in the worldwe're doing in this time.
(11:44):
All right.
It it's not a bad thing, but wemust endure this to enjoy the
light because how do you knowwhat's good if you ain't had
what's bad?
SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
That's a good point.
SPEAKER_04 (11:55):
How do you enjoy the sweet without the bitter?
I mean, and and don't even getme started because again, look
at human behavior.
How many people do the spicysweet?
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (12:06):
The sweet and sour and all that, these extremes,
all right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:11):
I don't I don't do the sweet and sour, but I will
definitely do the spicy sweet.
SPEAKER_04 (12:16):
I hate the sour too.
But I will I'm like you, I'll dothe spicy.
SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (12:23):
Chicken cooking, what?
Um honey and um what like ajalapeno sauce or salsa verde or
something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:33):
Yes.
That is honey.
SPEAKER_04 (12:38):
Well, I'm trying to think of the powder, uh, the um
cayenne powder.
SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Oh, cayenne.
SPEAKER_04 (12:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Cayenne and honey on yourchicken before you bake it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Oh, nothing like fresh cayenne out of the garden.
SPEAKER_04 (12:52):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (12:54):
Anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Well, that was just a that was a rant on food.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (13:01):
Uh but again, to me, that's what this time period is.
Hence the reason we have toenjoy the darkness to be able to
enjoy the light.
You understand this conceptconcept when you have to get up
in the middle of the night to gopee on a cold day and you get
back into your warm bedafterwards.
Right.
(13:26):
That's what this time issupposed to be like.
All right.
So don't take it with a negativeemotion or anything like that.
Embrace it full on.
I got a question not too longago.
Someone wrote us, hey, couldy'all go over the Will of the
Year myth cycle?
SPEAKER_02 (13:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (13:46):
A little confusing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
Well, it is confusing.
SPEAKER_04 (13:49):
Right?
So so let's walk through itfirst, okay?
unknown (13:52):
Right?
SPEAKER_04 (13:53):
And we're gonna start at the beginning of our
year, which is Sawin, right?
At Sawin, the goddess is prone,the god is dead, he's going into
the underworld.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (14:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:05):
Then we go to Yul.
She's a maiden, she she's thepregnant mother, about to give
birth.
SPEAKER_03 (14:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:14):
The sun god, and he's a child.
Then we move to invulk.
And at embulk so gentleman, andshe's a young maiden.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
Mm-hmm.
And they're they're courting,yeah, dating.
SPEAKER_04 (14:33):
Dating, courting, maybe a little bit more.
Maybe and then we move to Star.
Now the star she's the turn,she's coming into her fluition.
She's suddenly become going fromchildhood into adulthood.
She's becoming a woman.
SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (14:51):
Correct?
Right.
He's doing he's roughly doingthe same thing, right?
SPEAKER_03 (14:56):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (14:58):
And then we move to Delta.
Now we're talking more adultsand what adult things.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Hooking up.
SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (15:08):
Alright.
So so we know what this is goingon here.
We move to Setha.
Setha's a little bit more of adowntime.
Enjoying spring and summer andbeginnings of the bounties of
our harvest, right?
SPEAKER_03 (15:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (15:22):
Everything's growing, everything's in its
cycle.
He's at his peak of manhood, thewhole nine yards.
He's like finally turned intothat chieftain.
Again, nothing dramatic reallygoing on now.
Then we move to Linassa.
And Linassa, it's a hard it's aagain, it's a harvest.
Things are starting, certainthings are starting to come to
(15:44):
fruition.
She's allowing things to matureto get ready to die, and so we
can pick them.
And the home nine yards, becauseit's the first harvest.
Then we move to Aban.
Second harvest is the fall.
Sort of considered late in lifefor the gods.
(16:09):
And then moving on to that one,in which he's dead.
Why does this all sound soconfusing?
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
Because it is.
Well, in some ways it is,because we've actually got two
different cycles running.
SPEAKER_04 (16:24):
That's right.
We got two different storiesrunning side by side.
SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
And we're and when you do the wheel of the year
like this, you're overlaying,and that's where the confusion
comes in.
SPEAKER_04 (16:37):
Right.
So again, if we take a momentand we say, okay, grands are
about the goddess.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (16:45):
And all the lessers are about the god.
SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (16:50):
So then if we go back and we look at just the
story of the grands, what do wewind up with?
SPEAKER_02 (16:55):
Well, we have en bulk.
SPEAKER_04 (16:58):
No, no, start at Soin.
SPEAKER_02 (17:00):
Well, yeah, Salwan.
Which is death.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
We would skip Joel and go to Mbulk, in which she's
the maiden.
She's trying to get pregnant.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
Right, because Mbulk is in the belly.
SPEAKER_04 (17:15):
In the belly, right?
She's trying to get pregnant, orthe whole process there.
She's not showing yet.
SPEAKER_03 (17:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:22):
And then we move to the next grand.
Then we move to the next grand,which is Beltane, in which she
is in her full ripeness.
She is the pregnant mother inall her glory.
Right.
Then we move on to Lanasa, whichagain is her and her old age.
Stone given birth, pretty much,and is heading on into old age.
SPEAKER_03 (17:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (17:46):
Just in time for Salwin.
SPEAKER_03 (17:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (17:49):
Now that makes a little bit better sense, don't
it?
It keeps it easier, but keepstraight.
SPEAKER_02 (17:53):
Yeah, it it flows a little better.
Yeah.
Flows easy.
SPEAKER_04 (17:56):
Well, to do the God story, we have to start instead
of in Salwin, we have to startin Yule.
He's born.
Then he goes into adulthoodwhere he, her, and can do what
he needs to do.
So Stara.
SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
Go figure.
Go figure.
SPEAKER_04 (18:15):
Then what Sabbath do we have?
What's the next Litha?
Or solstice.
Right.
Litha.
He's at his ripened manhood.
He is the thief then.
He is the father of the clan.
SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
He's at his peak.
SPEAKER_04 (18:28):
Just in time to go to Maybon.
Where now he's starting towither away and preparing to die
just in time to be reborn atYule.
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (18:40):
This is why it's so confusing.
SPEAKER_02 (18:46):
But yeah, so you have to separate, you have to
actually separate the two.
SPEAKER_04 (18:50):
Right.
Because the grand are seasonal.
This is supposed to be thechanges between summer and
winter, fall, and this is thoseare what those are.
Where the lessers are solarevents.
I think this illustrates 100% alot of pagan thought.
Because what it is is he's onhis journey, she's on hers, but
(19:14):
we see where they interact witheach other throughout the year,
through their stories, throughtheir viewpoint, balancing each
other out, and taking a turn tomove on, to move the wheel
further to the next cycle.
Right?
Now, what you got to rememberalso is that technically we
don't that cycle as necessarilya wheel, it's more of a spiral.
(19:37):
So again, continue overlapping,building on top of each other
over and over again.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
So on okay, on that note, you said spiral.
How how do we how do you createa spiral out of that?
SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
Out of two circles?
SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (19:57):
Well again, if you s if you were able to see it from
the side or and rotate themaround each other, if you looked
at it from the side, it wouldlook more and more like a double
helix.
The representation of the humanout of all of this.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Right.
I think at some point it wouldturn in, it would kind of look
like a double helix, dependingon how far.
Yeah, depending on how far youstretch it out, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:26):
Again, that's one of the reasons it's so confusing
because again, technicallythey're two different myths
stories going on simultaneously.
SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
They yeah, they do they do overlap at some point.
Right.
Right.
But not completely.
SPEAKER_04 (20:42):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (20:43):
And so I think that's where that's where this
person who asked the questionwas coming from because it is I
mean, if you just look at it asit is, flat on a piece of paper.
SPEAKER_04 (20:56):
The history I was told about this was the Celts
followed the four grands.
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (21:02):
Right?
And and they didn't start eventouching the lessers until after
their encounters with Rome, whodid.
So that sort of that culturesort of weaved its that part of
that culture sort of weaveditself into the Celtic society
and was sort of brought down tous.
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
That's kind of the way I that's the way I
understood it too.
So right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:28):
I mean again, are we a hundred percent sure this is
you know what they did and thewhat they believed?
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
No.
SPEAKER_04 (21:33):
I don't think anybody will.
SPEAKER_02 (21:34):
No, we'll never be sure.
SPEAKER_04 (21:37):
Not some scholar professor that just sat there
and studied, I just made myselfand I.
SPEAKER_03 (21:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:46):
I wish there was more I could tell you, but
that's as simple as that cyclecan get.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
It it it does simplify it.
Right.
I mean, it does simplify it tothe point where, okay, now it
makes better sense.
SPEAKER_04 (21:58):
Right.
And again, it's very vague andvery simple.
It can get a whole lot morecertain traditions, it can be a
whole lot more complicated.
This is the way we look at it inour tradition.
SPEAKER_02 (22:10):
And it seems to work for us, so I was gonna say if uh
if anybody has any additionalideas, feel free to let us know.
SPEAKER_04 (22:18):
We love ideas, comments, and share.
SPEAKER_02 (22:22):
Let's get some coffee.
SPEAKER_04 (22:23):
Please share the podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (22:27):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pegan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary.
Please visit us at lifetempleseminary.org for more
information, as well as links toour social media: Facebook,
Discord, Twitter, YouTube, andReddit.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone
and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya steel blazing fires.
And so it is the end of ourdays, so walk with me till
morning breaks, and so it is theend of our days, so walk with me
(23:11):
till morning break.
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