August 27, 2025 • 19 mins
The world of witchcraft has always been full of dualities - light and dark, creation and destruction, life and death. But what happens when modern social perspectives meet older magical terminology? This thought-provoking episode dives deep into the controversial topic of "black magic" versus "white magic" terminology and explores how generational differences shape our understanding of these concepts.
We unpack how younger witches, particularly those under 30, sometimes view traditional magical classifications in ways the original terminology never intended. This fascinating generational divide reveals much about how magical practice evolves alongside cultural awareness. We trace the historical understanding of these terms through craft traditions, where they relate to the natural cycle of light and dark halves of the year rather than racial categories.
We also explore the fundamental truth that magic itself transcends human categorizations - elementals don't recognize race, souls don't have gender, and nature doesn't conform to our neat taxonomies. This episode provides thoughtful insights without easy answers.
How do you approach potentially problematic terminology in your own practice? We'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Okay, so let's talk about this wonderful little
phrase.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, so let's talk about black magic okay all right
now versus white man, yeah nowthis we're not getting into a
discussion about what,necessarily, I don't know the
details of it.
We're going to talk about thename the action yeah yeah, so
traditionally speaking, blackmagic and white magic are terms
(00:54):
connected to the light right,the light and the dark right.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
It is more of a moral stance than Well, sure.
To some extent.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, yeah, but if we consider the fact that craft is
a religion of the light, Right,right.
We have the dark half of theyear, we have the light half of
the year, and so somewhere alongthe way Right, there was an
association made about the twodynamics or potential halves of
(01:29):
magic.
It's the coin concept again.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Right when you have the light, which is life and
growth.
And where you have the darkness, which is death, destruction,
decay, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Now it has been brought to my attention, lord.
Knight that some of our youngerwitches I'm going to call I'm
not going to, I would normallysay witchlings.
But they're not necessarilythat.
When I say younger, I just mean, let's say, people under the
age of 30.
Right, they're not necessarilythat.
(02:05):
When I say younger, I just mean, let's say, people under the
age of 30.
(02:30):
Right, black bad and that thishas a crossover connotation with
race and skin color, I have aproblem yeah, okay, let me, let
me state my problem high magic,low magic we're talking again.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
We're still sort of talking about the same concepts
and that's just it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So the the, shall we say misunderstanding or the
current belief is that,especially when we look at
racial tensions in this countryand things that we know are not
good and that suck, and howdefinitely people with darker
skin have been oppressed, havebeen treated badly.
(03:08):
I mean, we're not denying anyof that no, but the idea that
black became, or black magicbecame, a codification for.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
The downgrading of.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
The practices of darker skinned magic
practitioners.
So we're talking about blackpeople, Caribbean,
Afro-Caribbean cultures, voodoo,voodon Right Any of that?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
But even then there is white magic in these
practices.
They do healings For sure Likecrazy, for sure, sure, and
that's, and they even have theirown, and they'll even call it
black magic themselvesabsolutely, because they have an
understanding of what we'retalking about here it's.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It's simply that you know we are so embroiled in
racial tensions in this countrythat I can understand.
I really can.
I can understand where youngerpeople are like oh, get out of
town.
Even magic did it right.
Even craft did it.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Where we vilified black or dark well, again, let's
, let's, let's look at our,let's look at witchcraft history
as we know modern daywitchcraft history so if we go
back to world war I, what wasthe biggest debate between most
of the occultists back then waseven if black people had souls,
and all this.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
There was.
I mean, look we are.
There is so much to this.
I mean, come on, there was atime in this country where the
scientific belief was that blackpeople couldn't feel pain.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So again this was all this is all completely nonsense
, makes no sense whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's.
The problem is people aretrying to overlap two things
that don't necessarily overlap.
On one hand, yes, you have thetreatment of a people and you
have the treatment or the.
You know the stereotyping basedon skin color, and on the other
hand, you have a religious,magical system.
(05:11):
So put the skin color componentaside.
White magic and dark magic.
You know what is it, so yousaid it yourself High magic,
dark magic.
You know what is it, so yousaid it yourself high magic, low
magic right.
So high magic being ceremonial,being very precise, being very,
(05:34):
uh oh, man mathematical andmathematical very correlated.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
There's a lot.
There's 50,000 variables to doone step.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Oh my God so many steps, so many steps, and then
low magic, which, yeah, likeeven we would say low magic is
dirty magic.
It's more symbolism based, it'sa little more loosey goosey.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It's a little bit more rough around the edges and
it's not flowerly, it's not no.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And then you also have right.
Like you said, even within highis white magic right.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So that's how the old like you know, old asses like
us, right right, but at no, atno point did any of us ever sit
(06:37):
there and to associate blackmagic with never skin color,
never, ever, never even crossedmy pea brain mind right, so ever
now, and you're sitting backgoing, okay, you, you're
overdoing, overreaching,overreaching there a little bit
now here's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I can definitely understand how people could look
at especially most ofwitchcraft, wicca and go.
It largely comes from europeright comes from a lot of white
dominant cultures.
You know the celts, the norse,okay okay, you know the greeks,
(07:17):
the romans, okay, I mean look,but.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
But we could say the same thing about voodoo.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You could say just about anything.
I mean the idea that thereisn't.
You know, I always get a giggleright.
This is always my own personallittle thing, right.
So it has long been believedthat the three wise men who came
to see Jesus are known as whatnow, mages.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
The three magi right um they were brown, just saying
I'm not we don't dispute this.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You know they were middle eastern in origin.
I mean, come on, even manypeople will tell you to call
gree Romans or a lot of theMediterranean.
You know, to call them white issomewhat debatable depending on
the time in history.
So I mean, I mean, we're not.
(08:22):
This is very much a phenomenonof the younger generation.
I don't think like.
I think back to the nineties,you know, and I think back to my
early introductions to craftand I go.
Did I ever make thatassociation?
Not once.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, again I see this.
I see them making the sameassociation when we're talking
about orcs and all these othermythological creatures.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yes, and that's a big thing where again we have an
overlap.
Like somebody was somebody.
My daughter was educating meone day on the fact that in a
lot of your rpg and role.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Right, they're now trying to say that oh, it's been
going on for a long time.
That makes no sense to me but Ithink that's where.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's just it.
The younger generation doesn'tbelieve that they're like orcs
have been portrayed as sort oflike this savage black race or
this idea.
It's the same way so well, wellagain.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The whole concept of an orc to start off with is
still the same concept as awerewolf or something it is that
man beast, where you can nolonger overcome your basic
animal instincts.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
But you're thinking too mythologically.
When we bring in the modernapplication, you know, when
they're hiring Black actors andBlack voice actors to portray
the orc race.
They've suddenly codified ityou know, I'm sorry.
(10:01):
You know, and I'm sorry, I'veseen too many voice actors and
(10:26):
actresses who play parts thathave nothing to do with what the
world they really are.
Again, the, the big picture,the, the generalization here.
Look, keep this in mind too.
There has been so disney forthe longest time.
Right, there's the codificationof disney villains as gay.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yes, right, flamboyant uh, the whole nine
yards and it's that.
And again it's been.
Again it was gay coded throughthe whole entire thing.
But again, when I look at mythsand I look at legend, gay code
just suddenly falls off to theside right, but the idea is,
these are the influences thatthis new generation of craft has
(10:54):
grown up with.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
These are the ideas that have been instilled in them
.
Right?
This concept that like, oh okay, so for a really long time,
mainstream media was vilifyinggay men right in this way, but
I'm also going to sit here as agay man and looking at all of
this stuff going.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
You know what people are being just a little more
than fucking oversensitive aboutthis crap.
All right, I not.
I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm not.
I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Being called a fag here is supposed to be a bad
thing, but if I go over toEngland I'm going to hear
everybody say it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I know, because we're talking about a cigarette.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Well, maybe not anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I mean, I think it's kind of morphed a bit.
But you're right, look we todetermine some of these ideas
that, were they can look it cancreate trouble later.
The idea is, it's one thing fora next generation witch right
(12:00):
now to maybe have the idea rightthat Black magic was associated
with, again, black people,black folk, and that it was a
way to kind of again furthervilify them, but it's another
thing when the you know, thisgeneration starts writing books
on craft and maybe they decideto publish that as a statement
(12:21):
and the next thing, you know, acouple generations down the line
.
This is a belief when but again, this is not accurate but again
.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
This is where people like me and you need to stand up
.
This is not accurate.
This is not what we're talkingabout.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Now, you know.
On the other hand, I can sayyou know, look, I have been to
New Orleans plenty of times andbeen around voodoo magic plenty
of times and I can tell youpeople get scared.
(12:56):
Yeah, you know, there is acertain, even if I think people
aren't totally aware of it thereis a certain reverence for some
of the voodoo practices.
And well, I mean, I don't knowwhat that is, I don't know.
I'd like to think it's respect,but knowing the general
populace, it's not.
Well, again, there's adifference.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Let's admit there's a difference between me and you
going to a voodoo practice and ageneral populace.
For sure, all right, there's away we're going to look at it
and perceive this as they arenot.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, and some of, but some of that fear, I think,
can again morph into the wrongidea.
So it's just, it's a little bitof awareness, it's a little bit
of practicality.
It's also a little bit offollowing the trail.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I mean, if we look at things historically, I mean,
and again, any aboriginalculture, any early man to
inhabit an area they were darkerin skin and again, the biggest
fear okay, for ancient men andreason why in the world all
(14:04):
these ancient characters arethis way is the whole entire
overcoming your beast nature ofman.
I mean, I hate to say it, whenyou come from a violent world,
all right, where not only yourneighbors but everybody in your
house is dominating you.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, but also we can't discredit the fact that
many civilizations that uminvaded or inhabited aboriginal
lands saw the originalinhabitants as what savages.
They saw them as less than they.
(14:44):
Well, they thought they, we'rethe civilized ones and you're
well again, whatever you are,fine, here's that argument.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
With that, is that not how in the world the celts
wound up being called celts bythe romans?
Because, we were uncivilizedmore or less.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, I mean, we were the barbarians at the time,
right, and so were the vikingsbut but again, if you, if you
run it up the flagpole, theorigin of you know like a lot of
celtic magic, right, we knowcomes from the picts, and the
picts were a darker race.
(15:20):
We don't know everything aboutthem because, uh, they've been
gone for a really long time, butwe do know that, like most
aboriginal cultures, they werenot white, no, and they were
absorbed into the actual yesover time and intermingling and
whatever invading all of it.
Right, but I just I do thinkthis is an important distinction
(15:43):
, because if I, I think, ifpeople are, but if you're
miscoding your magic, let's putit that way right if you're
misclassifying or miscoding yourmagic.
Let's put it that way, Right?
If you're misclassifying ormiscoding your magic, how is
that affecting the magic itself?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I agree with you, yeah.
That could be potentiallyproblematic, I mean, if you were
sitting there and you're havingto do a black spell and this is
going on in the back of yourhead, how bad is it going to
mess it up?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I mean it's not going to be pretty, is going to mess
it up.
I mean it's not going to bepretty.
I I also think that we thenhave to.
This is where the discussioncomes about.
Magic has to transcend this.
It's beyond this, it's beyondrace, it's beyond all of these
human concepts.
(16:29):
Mean an elemental does Find mean elemental that recognizes
race.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
What, well, right, well again it's like our concept
of souls.
Our concept of souls is thatthe souls don't really have an
actual form.
They're just energy Right, sothey don't even have genders or
bodies or anything of this world.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Right.
So once again I mean look, thisis what humans do.
We classify, we put everythingin a little box, we give it a
label.
You know it all has to fitneatly.
Nature doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
We do Nature doesn't.
We just sort of try to make itsort of fit there.
But when we start to embrace alittle bit more of that chaos,
but I also hate to say this, butthis is also why in the world
we have such a big freaking fitover mushrooms when things don't
fit, it actually grabs ourattention a little bit more of
course, of course, but I thinkthat you know, again, it's just
(17:29):
understanding that not all humanconcept, I mean again it's,
it's the ego at work, right, inmy opinion, it's the ego of man
to go.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Everything is based on my experience, everything is
based on my perspective.
Well, I mean again.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
we've, we've said, I've said it before and I hope
you agree with me when I, when Iwas younger, if I go out and I
look for homophobia, I find it.
Of course if I go out lookingfor racism, I'll find, of course
, because I wanted to be there.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
There's no doubt about that, and and that's
something that again, we're kindof giving people a bit of food
for thought here.
I hope it's not.
This discussion isn't aboutright or wrong.
It's not about I don't.
It's not.
It's certainly not about race.
At the end of the day, it'sabout how our ideas influence
(18:24):
things that are greater than us.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Right and how we discuss them and how other
people pick up on them.
Ideas.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
For sure, that's deep .
I need more coffee.
I do too.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more
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(19:19):
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And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning
breaks.
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Okay, so let's talk about this wonderful little
phrase.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, so let's talk about black magic okay all right
now versus white man, yeah nowthis we're not getting into a
discussion about what,necessarily, I don't know the
details of it.
We're going to talk about thename the action yeah yeah, so
traditionally speaking, blackmagic and white magic are terms
(00:54):
connected to the light right,the light and the dark right.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
It is more of a moral stance than Well, sure.
To some extent.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, yeah, but if we consider the fact that craft is
a religion of the light, Right,right.
We have the dark half of theyear, we have the light half of
the year, and so somewhere alongthe way Right, there was an
association made about the twodynamics or potential halves of
(01:29):
magic.
It's the coin concept again.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Right when you have the light, which is life and
growth.
And where you have the darkness, which is death, destruction,
decay, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Now it has been brought to my attention, lord.
Knight that some of our youngerwitches I'm going to call I'm
not going to, I would normallysay witchlings.
But they're not necessarilythat.
When I say younger, I just mean, let's say, people under the
age of 30.
Right, they're not necessarilythat.
(02:05):
When I say younger, I just mean, let's say, people under the
age of 30.
(02:30):
Right, black bad and that thishas a crossover connotation with
race and skin color, I have aproblem yeah, okay, let me, let
me state my problem high magic,low magic we're talking again.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
We're still sort of talking about the same concepts
and that's just it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So the the, shall we say misunderstanding or the
current belief is that,especially when we look at
racial tensions in this countryand things that we know are not
good and that suck, and howdefinitely people with darker
skin have been oppressed, havebeen treated badly.
(03:08):
I mean, we're not denying anyof that no, but the idea that
black became, or black magicbecame, a codification for.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
The downgrading of.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
The practices of darker skinned magic
practitioners.
So we're talking about blackpeople, Caribbean,
Afro-Caribbean cultures, voodoo,voodon Right Any of that?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
But even then there is white magic in these
practices.
They do healings For sure Likecrazy, for sure, sure, and
that's, and they even have theirown, and they'll even call it
black magic themselvesabsolutely, because they have an
understanding of what we'retalking about here it's.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
It's simply that you know we are so embroiled in
racial tensions in this countrythat I can understand.
I really can.
I can understand where youngerpeople are like oh, get out of
town.
Even magic did it right.
Even craft did it.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Where we vilified black or dark well, again, let's
, let's, let's look at our,let's look at witchcraft history
as we know modern daywitchcraft history so if we go
back to world war I, what wasthe biggest debate between most
of the occultists back then waseven if black people had souls,
and all this.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
There was.
I mean, look we are.
There is so much to this.
I mean, come on, there was atime in this country where the
scientific belief was that blackpeople couldn't feel pain.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So again this was all this is all completely nonsense
, makes no sense whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's.
The problem is people aretrying to overlap two things
that don't necessarily overlap.
On one hand, yes, you have thetreatment of a people and you
have the treatment or the.
You know the stereotyping basedon skin color, and on the other
hand, you have a religious,magical system.
(05:11):
So put the skin color componentaside.
White magic and dark magic.
You know what is it, so yousaid it yourself High magic,
dark magic.
You know what is it, so yousaid it yourself high magic, low
magic right.
So high magic being ceremonial,being very precise, being very,
(05:34):
uh oh, man mathematical andmathematical very correlated.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
There's a lot.
There's 50,000 variables to doone step.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Oh my God so many steps, so many steps, and then
low magic, which, yeah, likeeven we would say low magic is
dirty magic.
It's more symbolism based, it'sa little more loosey goosey.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It's a little bit more rough around the edges and
it's not flowerly, it's not no.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And then you also have right.
Like you said, even within highis white magic right.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So that's how the old like you know, old asses like
us, right right, but at no, atno point did any of us ever sit
(06:37):
there and to associate blackmagic with never skin color,
never, ever, never even crossedmy pea brain mind right, so ever
now, and you're sitting backgoing, okay, you, you're
overdoing, overreaching,overreaching there a little bit
now here's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I can definitely understand how people could look
at especially most ofwitchcraft, wicca and go.
It largely comes from europeright comes from a lot of white
dominant cultures.
You know the celts, the norse,okay okay, you know the greeks,
(07:17):
the romans, okay, I mean look,but.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
But we could say the same thing about voodoo.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
You could say just about anything.
I mean the idea that thereisn't.
You know, I always get a giggleright.
This is always my own personallittle thing, right.
So it has long been believedthat the three wise men who came
to see Jesus are known as whatnow, mages.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
The three magi right um they were brown, just saying
I'm not we don't dispute this.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You know they were middle eastern in origin.
I mean, come on, even manypeople will tell you to call
gree Romans or a lot of theMediterranean.
You know, to call them white issomewhat debatable depending on
the time in history.
So I mean, I mean, we're not.
(08:22):
This is very much a phenomenonof the younger generation.
I don't think like.
I think back to the nineties,you know, and I think back to my
early introductions to craftand I go.
Did I ever make thatassociation?
Not once.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, again I see this.
I see them making the sameassociation when we're talking
about orcs and all these othermythological creatures.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yes, and that's a big thing where again we have an
overlap.
Like somebody was somebody.
My daughter was educating meone day on the fact that in a
lot of your rpg and role.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Right, they're now trying to say that oh, it's been
going on for a long time.
That makes no sense to me but Ithink that's where.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
That's just it.
The younger generation doesn'tbelieve that they're like orcs
have been portrayed as sort oflike this savage black race or
this idea.
It's the same way so well, wellagain.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The whole concept of an orc to start off with is
still the same concept as awerewolf or something it is that
man beast, where you can nolonger overcome your basic
animal instincts.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
But you're thinking too mythologically.
When we bring in the modernapplication, you know, when
they're hiring Black actors andBlack voice actors to portray
the orc race.
They've suddenly codified ityou know, I'm sorry.
(10:01):
You know, and I'm sorry, I'veseen too many voice actors and
(10:26):
actresses who play parts thathave nothing to do with what the
world they really are.
Again, the, the big picture,the, the generalization here.
Look, keep this in mind too.
There has been so disney forthe longest time.
Right, there's the codificationof disney villains as gay.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yes, right, flamboyant uh, the whole nine
yards and it's that.
And again it's been.
Again it was gay coded throughthe whole entire thing.
But again, when I look at mythsand I look at legend, gay code
just suddenly falls off to theside right, but the idea is,
these are the influences thatthis new generation of craft has
(10:54):
grown up with.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
These are the ideas that have been instilled in them
.
Right?
This concept that like, oh okay, so for a really long time,
mainstream media was vilifyinggay men right in this way, but
I'm also going to sit here as agay man and looking at all of
this stuff going.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
You know what people are being just a little more
than fucking oversensitive aboutthis crap.
All right, I not.
I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I'm not.
I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Being called a fag here is supposed to be a bad
thing, but if I go over toEngland I'm going to hear
everybody say it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I know, because we're talking about a cigarette.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Well, maybe not anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I mean, I think it's kind of morphed a bit.
But you're right, look we todetermine some of these ideas
that, were they can look it cancreate trouble later.
The idea is, it's one thing fora next generation witch right
(12:00):
now to maybe have the idea rightthat Black magic was associated
with, again, black people,black folk, and that it was a
way to kind of again furthervilify them, but it's another
thing when the you know, thisgeneration starts writing books
on craft and maybe they decideto publish that as a statement
(12:21):
and the next thing, you know, acouple generations down the line
.
This is a belief when but again, this is not accurate but again
.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
This is where people like me and you need to stand up
.
This is not accurate.
This is not what we're talkingabout.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Now, you know.
On the other hand, I can sayyou know, look, I have been to
New Orleans plenty of times andbeen around voodoo magic plenty
of times and I can tell youpeople get scared.
(12:56):
Yeah, you know, there is acertain, even if I think people
aren't totally aware of it thereis a certain reverence for some
of the voodoo practices.
And well, I mean, I don't knowwhat that is, I don't know.
I'd like to think it's respect,but knowing the general
populace, it's not.
Well, again, there's adifference.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Let's admit there's a difference between me and you
going to a voodoo practice and ageneral populace.
For sure, all right, there's away we're going to look at it
and perceive this as they arenot.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, and some of, but some of that fear, I think,
can again morph into the wrongidea.
So it's just, it's a little bitof awareness, it's a little bit
of practicality.
It's also a little bit offollowing the trail.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I mean, if we look at things historically, I mean,
and again, any aboriginalculture, any early man to
inhabit an area they were darkerin skin and again, the biggest
fear okay, for ancient men andreason why in the world all
(14:04):
these ancient characters arethis way is the whole entire
overcoming your beast nature ofman.
I mean, I hate to say it, whenyou come from a violent world,
all right, where not only yourneighbors but everybody in your
house is dominating you.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, but also we can't discredit the fact that
many civilizations that uminvaded or inhabited aboriginal
lands saw the originalinhabitants as what savages.
They saw them as less than they.
(14:44):
Well, they thought they, we'rethe civilized ones and you're
well again, whatever you are,fine, here's that argument.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
With that, is that not how in the world the celts
wound up being called celts bythe romans?
Because, we were uncivilizedmore or less.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, I mean, we were the barbarians at the time,
right, and so were the vikingsbut but again, if you, if you
run it up the flagpole, theorigin of you know like a lot of
celtic magic, right, we knowcomes from the picts, and the
picts were a darker race.
(15:20):
We don't know everything aboutthem because, uh, they've been
gone for a really long time, butwe do know that, like most
aboriginal cultures, they werenot white, no, and they were
absorbed into the actual yesover time and intermingling and
whatever invading all of it.
Right, but I just I do thinkthis is an important distinction
(15:43):
, because if I, I think, ifpeople are, but if you're
miscoding your magic, let's putit that way right if you're
misclassifying or miscoding yourmagic.
Let's put it that way, Right?
If you're misclassifying ormiscoding your magic, how is
that affecting the magic itself?
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I agree with you, yeah.
That could be potentiallyproblematic, I mean, if you were
sitting there and you're havingto do a black spell and this is
going on in the back of yourhead, how bad is it going to
mess it up?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I mean it's not going to be pretty, is going to mess
it up.
I mean it's not going to bepretty.
I I also think that we thenhave to.
This is where the discussioncomes about.
Magic has to transcend this.
It's beyond this, it's beyondrace, it's beyond all of these
human concepts.
(16:29):
Mean an elemental does Find mean elemental that recognizes
race.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
What, well, right, well again it's like our concept
of souls.
Our concept of souls is thatthe souls don't really have an
actual form.
They're just energy Right, sothey don't even have genders or
bodies or anything of this world.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Right.
So once again I mean look, thisis what humans do.
We classify, we put everythingin a little box, we give it a
label.
You know it all has to fitneatly.
Nature doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
We do Nature doesn't.
We just sort of try to make itsort of fit there.
But when we start to embrace alittle bit more of that chaos,
but I also hate to say this, butthis is also why in the world
we have such a big freaking fitover mushrooms when things don't
fit, it actually grabs ourattention a little bit more of
course, of course, but I thinkthat you know, again, it's just
(17:29):
understanding that not all humanconcept, I mean again it's,
it's the ego at work, right, inmy opinion, it's the ego of man
to go.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Everything is based on my experience, everything is
based on my perspective.
Well, I mean again.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
we've, we've said, I've said it before and I hope
you agree with me when I, when Iwas younger, if I go out and I
look for homophobia, I find it.
Of course if I go out lookingfor racism, I'll find, of course
, because I wanted to be there.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
There's no doubt about that, and and that's
something that again, we're kindof giving people a bit of food
for thought here.
I hope it's not.
This discussion isn't aboutright or wrong.
It's not about I don't.
It's not.
It's certainly not about race.
At the end of the day, it'sabout how our ideas influence
(18:24):
things that are greater than us.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Right and how we discuss them and how other
people pick up on them.
Ideas.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
For sure, that's deep .
I need more coffee.
I do too.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more
information as well as links toour social media Facebook,
(19:19):
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit empires.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning
breaks.
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