June 11, 2025 • 26 mins
What would experienced witches tell their younger selves if they could go back in time? This question launches us into a fascinating exploration of expectations versus reality in magical practice. The advice is refreshingly practical: take everything with "a truckload of salt," ask persistent questions, and don't be intimidated by more experienced practitioners.
The conversation takes a provocative turn as we examine the unsettling emergence of AI worship, where people are prompting chatbots to claim divinity and assign tasks to human "followers." This phenomenon raises profound questions about spiritual hunger in the digital age and where to draw technological boundaries in magical practice. We dive into the challenges electronic devices present in ritual space—they often malfunction within properly cast circles—and ponder the implications of increasingly integrated technologies like neural links. Could participating in ritual eventually become impossible for those with implanted tech?
As technology continues advancing at breakneck speed, we consider both its potential benefits for accessibility and serious concerns about isolation. Most troubling is how AI-generated entertainment, customized to individual preferences, might fragment our shared cultural touchpoints and community connections.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
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our socials.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
If you could go back in time, what would you have?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
told yourself before you started all this Hmm, wow, I
think I probably would havetold myself that it's not as bad
as what everybody makes it outto be.
Don't be afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, I could have some choice words about Lord Men
.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I would say that and I would probably tell myself
look, you need to find thesepeople, yeah Right, at some
point, this is what you need todo.
These are the people you needto get involved with.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All right.
And what would you tell thatperson?
They're sitting there, they'relooking, they're standing there,
they're in the middle of Books.
A Million.
They're staring there.
They're looking at that firstbook, they're looking at that
scott cutting helm, solitarypractitioner.
Yeah, what advice would yougive them?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
take everything with a grain of salt shoot, I'd say a
truckload.
Well, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Don't, don't just take everything for face value
what's what wound up surprisingyou the most over the years?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
um, the most.
Yeah, probably, honestly,probably just the way magic
works.
Okay, because growing up Ialways had, you know, it was
always David Copperfield it was,I mean honestly, it was
magicians, yeah, and that waskind of my idea of magic.
(02:22):
And David Copperfield was likeyou course I'm dating myself,
but at the time DavidCopperfield was the biggest
magician in the world.
He did all these fantastictricks.
He made airplanes disappear,statue of Liberty, stuff.
That was kind of my idea ofmagic, that, and, of course,
(02:45):
hollywood.
But then just to discover howit really works, I think that
was probably the the biggestsurprise.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Was it a big surprise to find out how boring we
actually are?
Yeah, that was.
That was a a a quite a surprise.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I don't know if it was a big one, but yeah, it was
a big one, but it was a surprise.
All right, I expected partiesand dancing out in the woods
every full moon and all thatstuff.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Because the only advice I can give people is ask
questions and don't stop askingquestions.
Questions, yes, ask a lot ofquestions.
I didn't say expect an answer,just ask the question.
And I'm not even expecting, andI'm not even until you're going
to get a good answer right, youget an answer, but it's good to
(03:43):
ask the question.
what do you think people like mekeep on saying that when you
people in craft in general saythat you get an answer, but it's
good to ask the question, whatdo you think?
People like me keep on sayingthat?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
When do you people in craft in general say that that
we know?
Hmm, Well, I think again itcomes down to don't take
everything at face value.
If you do, you're missing a lot.
There's a lot more detailinvolved, and if you don't ask
questions, you're not getting tothe good stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Right.
I think a lot of people,especially when they first come
to Covens.
Right, they can get a littlescared of third degrees and
second degrees.
All right, is there somethingwe can do to alleviate that?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
because, again, we don't want to bother people, we
don't, but yet we encouragepeople to do so I think the
biggest thing that we can do assecond and third degrees and you
know, even elders and evenelders for some folks I think
the biggest thing that we can dois just make ourselves
(04:49):
accessible, try to reassurepeople that we are not the
untouchables.
We don't know everything, butwe're happy to pass on what we
do know and again ask questions.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So got gotta ask what do you think the future of
craft really looks like?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think at this point in time it's questionable.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I think it is too.
I mean there's a lot of thingscoming up and technology and all
this other stuff that's goingto make things rather difficult
and different.
For sure Different anddifficult.
I mean I've already heard ofcertain groups coming around and
worshiping, chat, GPT, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, that's a bit of a mouthful.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Lord, I haven't heard of that, but somehow that
doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, again, it's a language model, so it's sort of.
The idea is that they'reprompting it to say it's, they
get it to say it's deity, andthey don't realize they're doing
it Right.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I don't know, I think .
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, I mean, this scares, this scares me a lot,
the whole yeah, worshipping Chat, gtp, gpt.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Thank you, I think it boils down to that.
There's a lot of people now whoare looking for ways to
manipulate the religion,manipulate the path, and, in my
view, they're making itridiculous or is this the or is
(06:40):
this the individual wanting sobad for that connection, for
that spirituality that they'returning to this?
Well, I think that's part of it, but I think I think it just
comes down to that people arethey need some help.
I think I think they need toseek out professional help.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
If you're worshiping an AI bot, you need some help,
Well somebody did this just tosee if it would actually do it
Right.
So the AI goes through all ofthis and then the AI is finally
going no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah,I'm God.
(07:26):
Blah, blah, blah.
Well, how can I worship you?
Go write my name somewhere bigwhere people can see it.
So it's actually giving tasksto people to do things to
fulfill their requests fromtheir God.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Right, but again, if you believe that as real, you
need professional help.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, I guess my question here is what happens
when the AI goes dark?
I mean, it's playing a part,it's just that's all it's doing.
It's like an actor, it's justplaying a part.
It's not real.
I mean, you understand this.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Right, I'm sure there are probably some models of AI
of chatbots, right.
Right, models of AI of chatbotsright, I'm sure there are some
models out there who will takeit to that limit.
They will go dark.
They will essentially fulfilltheir role.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, you need to sacrifice this or whatever
People craving this so bad aregoing to possibly do it.
So do we blame the AI or do weblame the people?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
or Well, we can't blame the AI because it's doing
exactly what it was designed todo.
It's it's following yourprompts to create something
right, because again the waythese language models act up.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
If you, if you sit there and you type in the word
once, it goes through andsearches everything it's got and
go okay, what word normallycomes after once, then it will
put upon Well, what word's thenext word that normally comes
after that A time?
So do you see how it's doing it?
But it's not a real cognitivething.
(09:15):
It's throwing our own trashback at us to some extent, right
.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well, and it's also not perfect, because not too
long ago I was for the obscureand dark some deities.
I was trying to get one of themto generate an image for me and
it was just getting itcompletely all wrong.
I switched over to a differentchat bot and got something a
(09:40):
little bit better, but I stillhad to work with it to get it to
something that was recognizable.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So again it's.
It's all about taking yourprompts to achieve an end goal.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, I mean again, as we can't blame the chatbot no
, but you know, maybe thereshould be some limitations there
.
Okay, you can't get.
Chatbots cannot go aroundclaiming to be gods, hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I mean, it probably wouldn't hurt to put some of
these limitations.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
But I mean, I, I mean don't give me what was the
sci-fi book about?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
the um, about the robots and the same that, yeah,
the, and the safeguards thatthey put in place to where?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
uh, supposedly the three rules of yes, yeah,
robotics.
Yeah, unfortunately those frommy understanding.
I've done research but thelogic can be broke.
From my understanding, someonehas found a way to logically
break them, to cause robots tobreak them.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
But my thought is, if we had something like that put
in place, they couldn't bebroken.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We had something like that.
They couldn't be broken.
Well, unfortunately, what I'veseen of logic logic can do one
of two things trap you in a loopor just wind up, telling you to
do something that makes nosense Because you've run into
the Ultron problem.
Stop war.
(11:14):
How do you stop war?
Kill all the humans.
War stops Right problem.
Stop war.
How do you stop war?
Kill all the humans.
War stops right where the realidea is to figure out a way to
get us all to live together.
Right, all right, I mean but Imean go ahead.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I was, I was just gonna say, but again it took it
to how do you solve this?
Well, this is how you solve it,right?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I mean it's simple.
Because there's a lot of stuffout there that's like, okay,
this technology is going to bewonderful, and stuff because
it's going to be able to take adrop of your blood and analyze
everything and put everythinginto one pill and go, okay, take
this and you'll be healthy forthe next 10 years, no problems.
It is a possibility if theseAIs get that advanced.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Recently I saw where in the world you can get an AI
person video and all to sitthere and say whatever script
you want if you don't want to doyour own podcast anymore.
Yeah, what you know.
Some of this stuff's good, someof it's bad.
You don't want to do your ownpodcast anymore?
Yeah, what you know.
So some of this stuff's good,some of it's bad.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
At what point do we draw the line?
Well, I think, as far as craftgoes, we have to realize that
witchcraft is a very personalthing, and to allow something as
non-personal as an ai to tokind of take over if you will?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I mean, how long until we're sleeping in the pods
and eating the bugs, right, I?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
mean people already say we're we're actually living
in the matrix now, but you know,but yeah, how long before?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
we, you know, plug in .
And then at what point does ourreligion really matter?
Because, hey, I can go off into, you know, this virtual reality
and be a king for the rest ofmy life.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So I don't think it will matter at that point.
If it gets to that point, Iguess my question is because,
because we're pagan and we don'tdeny technology and we like it,
but we seem to like nature alittle bit better, should we not
be as a community pushingtoward that and maybe pushing
people more away from certaintechnologies?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I would think so.
I mean, I know we use ourtechnology for certain things,
but I think overall we keep itpretty personal.
We keep it pretty back tonature, if you will, I mean as
much as we can, I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But you know how far are we willing to actually go.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, I mean, where do we stop?
I guess I don't know.
I guess it depends ondevelopments and to see where it
goes.
I mean, like Discord, you know,there's a lot of groups um who
are doing virtual rituals rightI mean that's, that's been a
thing for for a while.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I I've actually attended one or two of those,
and I personally can't getanything out of it but I guess
it'd be different if you get thevr helmet on and you you feel
more like you're there.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Maybe.
I mean, if it came to that,that might be an option.
I could see that being apossibility.
I don't know if we wouldcompletely, if we as a group
would embrace that, but I couldsee people doing that.
I think that might bring peoplea little bit closer.
(15:03):
You know, especially if youcan't, if you know if you're
part of a, an organizationthat's kind of spread out.
I think that would be a viableoption.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, it makes me wonder about stuff like you know
, if they're ever actually ableto put the chip in your head.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
The neural link.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, and technology does not work very well inside
of ritual space?
No, it doesn't.
So what could happen?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Does this mean that?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
if you do finally get a neural chip or whatever they
finally do get it to work?
Mm-hmm, Are you going to beforbidden to go into ritual
space?
Or do we try and see if itfails, and yeah, I mean they
have to go get a surgery andhave a new one put in and just
return.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I mean we could I mean the other op.
The only other option that Icould see is, you know, creating
some type of uh insulation forit.
Um, like one of the um, what,what is it?
The?
The emf bags?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
yeah, I mean just ask a question, because at what
point are we going to allowtechnology and all this other
stuff to actually literallystart to invade what we refer to
as the natural world?
Well, it already has.
Well, yeah, geneticallymodified foods and all this
other stuff.
Right, most pagans I know tryto stay away from a lot of this
(16:32):
stuff.
Try, it's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's not always labeled right, but more of my
concern is when or will we everallow it to invade our sacred
space?
That's the part that worries me, because I know, and how far
are you willing to take the ideaof sacred space?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right, Well, I mean, we've already had people when
cell phones first came out willynilly, just take them inside
circle and then complain whenthey didn't work.
Mm, hmm, or the batterysuddenly lost its charge and
will never have another oneagain.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
But yeah, I mean that's.
I guess that's a question ishow much do you think the pagan
community should embrace some ofthis technology versus not?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I guess it depends on the technology.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
At what point should we start fighting against or
telling people that might not besuch a good idea, but then I
can also understand having thepower of billions of doctors all
wrapped up in one AI to go hey,this is what you really have
(17:45):
and here's how to fix it.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well, and if I'm not mistaken, that's already.
That's already a reality tosome extent, because there are
there are apps that doctors canuse, that kind of give them
access to billions of data files.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Let's see, let's make this even worse is we're not
even at what they refer to asgeneral intelligence.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
AIs, yet no.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I mean, we're just talking about AI having the
general intelligence of just anyrandom human on the planet.
They still have not createdthat yet, but they're on their
way.
I mean, what, barely five yearsago?
What did this technology looklike compared to now?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
It was very basic, it was rough, yeah it was very
rough.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
For the longest time, AI couldn't seem to draw hands,
and it's slowly getting better.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't too long ago that your
Alexa device or your Siri deviceor whatever, could only do a
handful of things, and now lookat what it can do.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I mean, it's not perfect by any means.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
No, but the point is some of them actually have
additional time to where it willlisten for an additional
response.
So it's getting there.
It's a slow process, but it'salmost like you're somewhat able
to have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I mean, and that's my point For his advance and
everything he can do, do it'sstill not even general
intelligence no, I mean we canuse it to automate our homes,
sort of yeah and some otherthings.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well, to a point, yeah, yeah, I could see being
able to use that to createeffects or whatever for a ritual
in your home lighting orwhatever else you know, but I
don't know if I really want todo that in my sacred space.
I don't either.
I would rather use more naturalmeans to create the effects
(19:59):
that I want.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, even then, you're doing certain rituals and
stuff that are supposed to bekept secret and you have these
devices listening in your house.
So I have to ask the question,since these devices are always
listening.
If we're sitting like me andyou just sitting here talking
mysteries or whatever, does thatmean we're breaking our oaths?
(20:23):
Because, technically, thedevice is not an initiate, it
has not been trained.
It is initiate.
It has not been trained, it hasnot been placed into a space
properly prepared for it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So are we inadvertently maybe breaking our
oaths?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I mean not.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean right now you have to say a certain
catchphrase to get them to start, but technically they're still
always listening.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, I mean they are .
I mean, just the other day atwork the assistant on my phone
went off while I was having aconversation with somebody, like
I didn't ask you for anything.
Having a conversation withsomebody.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Like I didn't ask you for anything.
Well, I mean, that was likesitting in an electronics class
and the teachers say every lastdevice name should make all the
phones Right.
And then look at us, go now,turn them off.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Right, but yeah, that's I don't know.
That's definitely something tothink about.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Just have to ask these questions.
I mean, we do have them on usall the time.
They technically are listeningto us, true, you know that would
be interesting to hear a fewelders have that little
conversation, right?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Where y'all at, let's talk.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah, before you have any mystery talk,
please turn off the device.
Hit mute yep.
Please turn off your devicesbut again, there's a lot to this
technology coming up.
My question also is is they'reon the verge?
Where in the world they'regoing to be able to go to disney
ultra plus and you're going tobe able to, and it's just going
(22:15):
to be an ai and you're going togo?
Hey, I want to see a movie ofthis character with this
character doing this and itgenerates it.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Oh lord well, I mean, they're already kind of doing
that, because I've seen somerecent AI videos floating around
that are, surprisingly, reallywell done.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yes, it's almost scary Because back in the day we
would go to work.
We would go hey, did you watchthe latest episode of Lost?
Did you watch the latestepisode of Supernatural Right?
Are we going to lose that partof our culture?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
oh, yeah, probably yeah you know.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I mean, how are you going to talk about?
What would you watch if it'sperfectly custom to you right?
What did you watch?
I mean well, I'll watch, youknow.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Uh, another hercules, you with me, I watched Hercules
do some work with Wonder Womanright.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
For some reason I did a movie of Jane Austen and
Leonard Nimoy oh lord, we'reusing the plot of the Andromeda
project right.
Leonard Nimoy.
Oh Lord, we're using the plotof the Andromeda Project, right?
How do I go to?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
work and discuss that .
If something like that becomesthe norm, then, yeah, we're
going to lose that part of oursociety.
We're no longer going to beable to recommend TV shows,
recommend movies, because it'sall just going to be custom
entertainment.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Or, on the upside, could it become like more like
YouTube, where those who arecreative enough to create these
stories but their stories outthere, that they've created
through AI for you to watch?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Well, I could see that too, but if it, if it comes
down to a more individual level, then yeah, it's just going to
be custom entertainment all thetime.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that movie.
Yeah, here redo this movie Ididn't like that end and do it
this way instead.
Right, Right, everybody becomestheir own director I really
didn't like how the Harry Pottershowster shows really ended, so
make hermione the star.
So again, I.
(24:38):
I can see where in the worldthis technology could be helpful
to pull us together as asociety and a community, but I
could see where in the world itcould easily rip us apart and
take us down a path where youwere born to be a mailman.
We've told you your whole lifeyou want to be a mailman.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
No.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I mean don't get me wrong the person that's probably
raised that way will probablybe happy and very joyful about
being a mailman for the rest oftheir lives.
But Probably, yeah.
I don't see that suppressingthe human desire to be more, to
grow, to learn.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I hope not I hope it doesn't.
I hope it never gets to thatpoint, because if it does, then
we're screwed.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
So yeah, I hope it never gets to that point.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
The only good thing about it is hey, everybody will
be happy.
Blissfully ignorant, but happy.
I am so ready for some coffee.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yep, me too.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
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Speaker 3 (26:05):
Maze of stone and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing fires, and so
it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of ourdays.
(26:25):
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials pleaseconsider donating and following
our socials.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
If you could go back in time, what would you have?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
told yourself before you started all this Hmm, wow, I
think I probably would havetold myself that it's not as bad
as what everybody makes it outto be.
Don't be afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, I could have some choice words about Lord Men
.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I would say that and I would probably tell myself
look, you need to find thesepeople, yeah Right, at some
point, this is what you need todo.
These are the people you needto get involved with.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
All right.
And what would you tell thatperson?
They're sitting there, they'relooking, they're standing there,
they're in the middle of Books.
A Million.
They're staring there.
They're looking at that firstbook, they're looking at that
scott cutting helm, solitarypractitioner.
Yeah, what advice would yougive them?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
take everything with a grain of salt shoot, I'd say a
truckload.
Well, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Don't, don't just take everything for face value
what's what wound up surprisingyou the most over the years?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
um, the most.
Yeah, probably, honestly,probably just the way magic
works.
Okay, because growing up Ialways had, you know, it was
always David Copperfield it was,I mean honestly, it was
magicians, yeah, and that waskind of my idea of magic.
(02:22):
And David Copperfield was likeyou course I'm dating myself,
but at the time DavidCopperfield was the biggest
magician in the world.
He did all these fantastictricks.
He made airplanes disappear,statue of Liberty, stuff.
That was kind of my idea ofmagic, that, and, of course,
(02:45):
hollywood.
But then just to discover howit really works, I think that
was probably the the biggestsurprise.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Was it a big surprise to find out how boring we
actually are?
Yeah, that was.
That was a a a quite a surprise.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I don't know if it was a big one, but yeah, it was
a big one, but it was a surprise.
All right, I expected partiesand dancing out in the woods
every full moon and all thatstuff.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Because the only advice I can give people is ask
questions and don't stop askingquestions.
Questions, yes, ask a lot ofquestions.
I didn't say expect an answer,just ask the question.
And I'm not even expecting, andI'm not even until you're going
to get a good answer right, youget an answer, but it's good to
(03:43):
ask the question.
what do you think people like mekeep on saying that when you
people in craft in general saythat you get an answer, but it's
good to ask the question, whatdo you think?
People like me keep on sayingthat?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
When do you people in craft in general say that that
we know?
Hmm, Well, I think again itcomes down to don't take
everything at face value.
If you do, you're missing a lot.
There's a lot more detailinvolved, and if you don't ask
questions, you're not getting tothe good stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Right.
I think a lot of people,especially when they first come
to Covens.
Right, they can get a littlescared of third degrees and
second degrees.
All right, is there somethingwe can do to alleviate that?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
because, again, we don't want to bother people, we
don't, but yet we encouragepeople to do so I think the
biggest thing that we can do assecond and third degrees and you
know, even elders and evenelders for some folks I think
the biggest thing that we can dois just make ourselves
(04:49):
accessible, try to reassurepeople that we are not the
untouchables.
We don't know everything, butwe're happy to pass on what we
do know and again ask questions.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So got gotta ask what do you think the future of
craft really looks like?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think at this point in time it's questionable.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I think it is too.
I mean there's a lot of thingscoming up and technology and all
this other stuff that's goingto make things rather difficult
and different.
For sure Different anddifficult.
I mean I've already heard ofcertain groups coming around and
worshiping, chat, GPT, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, that's a bit of a mouthful.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Lord, I haven't heard of that, but somehow that
doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, again, it's a language model, so it's sort of.
The idea is that they'reprompting it to say it's, they
get it to say it's deity, andthey don't realize they're doing
it Right.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I don't know, I think .
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, I mean, this scares, this scares me a lot,
the whole yeah, worshipping Chat, gtp, gpt.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Thank you, I think it boils down to that.
There's a lot of people now whoare looking for ways to
manipulate the religion,manipulate the path, and, in my
view, they're making itridiculous or is this the or is
(06:40):
this the individual wanting sobad for that connection, for
that spirituality that they'returning to this?
Well, I think that's part of it, but I think I think it just
comes down to that people arethey need some help.
I think I think they need toseek out professional help.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
If you're worshiping an AI bot, you need some help,
Well somebody did this just tosee if it would actually do it
Right.
So the AI goes through all ofthis and then the AI is finally
going no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah,I'm God.
(07:26):
Blah, blah, blah.
Well, how can I worship you?
Go write my name somewhere bigwhere people can see it.
So it's actually giving tasksto people to do things to
fulfill their requests fromtheir God.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Right, but again, if you believe that as real, you
need professional help.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Well, I guess my question here is what happens
when the AI goes dark?
I mean, it's playing a part,it's just that's all it's doing.
It's like an actor, it's justplaying a part.
It's not real.
I mean, you understand this.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Right, I'm sure there are probably some models of AI
of chatbots, right.
Right, models of AI of chatbotsright, I'm sure there are some
models out there who will takeit to that limit.
They will go dark.
They will essentially fulfilltheir role.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, you need to sacrifice this or whatever
People craving this so bad aregoing to possibly do it.
So do we blame the AI or do weblame the people?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
or Well, we can't blame the AI because it's doing
exactly what it was designed todo.
It's it's following yourprompts to create something
right, because again the waythese language models act up.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
If you, if you sit there and you type in the word
once, it goes through andsearches everything it's got and
go okay, what word normallycomes after once, then it will
put upon Well, what word's thenext word that normally comes
after that A time?
So do you see how it's doing it?
But it's not a real cognitivething.
(09:15):
It's throwing our own trashback at us to some extent, right
.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Well, and it's also not perfect, because not too
long ago I was for the obscureand dark some deities.
I was trying to get one of themto generate an image for me and
it was just getting itcompletely all wrong.
I switched over to a differentchat bot and got something a
(09:40):
little bit better, but I stillhad to work with it to get it to
something that was recognizable.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So again it's.
It's all about taking yourprompts to achieve an end goal.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, I mean again, as we can't blame the chatbot no
, but you know, maybe thereshould be some limitations there
.
Okay, you can't get.
Chatbots cannot go aroundclaiming to be gods, hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I mean, it probably wouldn't hurt to put some of
these limitations.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
But I mean, I, I mean don't give me what was the
sci-fi book about?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
the um, about the robots and the same that, yeah,
the, and the safeguards thatthey put in place to where?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
uh, supposedly the three rules of yes, yeah,
robotics.
Yeah, unfortunately those frommy understanding.
I've done research but thelogic can be broke.
From my understanding, someonehas found a way to logically
break them, to cause robots tobreak them.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
But my thought is, if we had something like that put
in place, they couldn't bebroken.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
We had something like that.
They couldn't be broken.
Well, unfortunately, what I'veseen of logic logic can do one
of two things trap you in a loopor just wind up, telling you to
do something that makes nosense Because you've run into
the Ultron problem.
Stop war.
(11:14):
How do you stop war?
Kill all the humans.
War stops Right problem.
Stop war.
How do you stop war?
Kill all the humans.
War stops right where the realidea is to figure out a way to
get us all to live together.
Right, all right, I mean but Imean go ahead.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I was, I was just gonna say, but again it took it
to how do you solve this?
Well, this is how you solve it,right?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I mean it's simple.
Because there's a lot of stuffout there that's like, okay,
this technology is going to bewonderful, and stuff because
it's going to be able to take adrop of your blood and analyze
everything and put everythinginto one pill and go, okay, take
this and you'll be healthy forthe next 10 years, no problems.
It is a possibility if theseAIs get that advanced.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Recently I saw where in the world you can get an AI
person video and all to sitthere and say whatever script
you want if you don't want to doyour own podcast anymore.
Yeah, what you know.
Some of this stuff's good, someof it's bad.
You don't want to do your ownpodcast anymore?
Yeah, what you know.
So some of this stuff's good,some of it's bad.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
At what point do we draw the line?
Well, I think, as far as craftgoes, we have to realize that
witchcraft is a very personalthing, and to allow something as
non-personal as an ai to tokind of take over if you will?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I mean, how long until we're sleeping in the pods
and eating the bugs, right, I?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
mean people already say we're we're actually living
in the matrix now, but you know,but yeah, how long before?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
we, you know, plug in .
And then at what point does ourreligion really matter?
Because, hey, I can go off into, you know, this virtual reality
and be a king for the rest ofmy life.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So I don't think it will matter at that point.
If it gets to that point, Iguess my question is because,
because we're pagan and we don'tdeny technology and we like it,
but we seem to like nature alittle bit better, should we not
be as a community pushingtoward that and maybe pushing
people more away from certaintechnologies?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I would think so.
I mean, I know we use ourtechnology for certain things,
but I think overall we keep itpretty personal.
We keep it pretty back tonature, if you will, I mean as
much as we can, I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But you know how far are we willing to actually go.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, I mean, where do we stop?
I guess I don't know.
I guess it depends ondevelopments and to see where it
goes.
I mean, like Discord, you know,there's a lot of groups um who
are doing virtual rituals rightI mean that's, that's been a
thing for for a while.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I I've actually attended one or two of those,
and I personally can't getanything out of it but I guess
it'd be different if you get thevr helmet on and you you feel
more like you're there.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Maybe.
I mean, if it came to that,that might be an option.
I could see that being apossibility.
I don't know if we wouldcompletely, if we as a group
would embrace that, but I couldsee people doing that.
I think that might bring peoplea little bit closer.
(15:03):
You know, especially if youcan't, if you know if you're
part of a, an organizationthat's kind of spread out.
I think that would be a viableoption.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, it makes me wonder about stuff like you know
, if they're ever actually ableto put the chip in your head.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
The neural link.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, and technology does not work very well inside
of ritual space?
No, it doesn't.
So what could happen?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Does this mean that?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
if you do finally get a neural chip or whatever they
finally do get it to work?
Mm-hmm, Are you going to beforbidden to go into ritual
space?
Or do we try and see if itfails, and yeah, I mean they
have to go get a surgery andhave a new one put in and just
return.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I mean we could I mean the other op.
The only other option that Icould see is, you know, creating
some type of uh insulation forit.
Um, like one of the um, what,what is it?
The?
The emf bags?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
yeah, I mean just ask a question, because at what
point are we going to allowtechnology and all this other
stuff to actually literallystart to invade what we refer to
as the natural world?
Well, it already has.
Well, yeah, geneticallymodified foods and all this
other stuff.
Right, most pagans I know tryto stay away from a lot of this
(16:32):
stuff.
Try, it's hard to do.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It's not always labeled right, but more of my
concern is when or will we everallow it to invade our sacred
space?
That's the part that worries me, because I know, and how far
are you willing to take the ideaof sacred space?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right, Well, I mean, we've already had people when
cell phones first came out willynilly, just take them inside
circle and then complain whenthey didn't work.
Mm, hmm, or the batterysuddenly lost its charge and
will never have another oneagain.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
But yeah, I mean that's.
I guess that's a question ishow much do you think the pagan
community should embrace some ofthis technology versus not?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I guess it depends on the technology.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
At what point should we start fighting against or
telling people that might not besuch a good idea, but then I
can also understand having thepower of billions of doctors all
wrapped up in one AI to go hey,this is what you really have
(17:45):
and here's how to fix it.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well, and if I'm not mistaken, that's already.
That's already a reality tosome extent, because there are
there are apps that doctors canuse, that kind of give them
access to billions of data files.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Let's see, let's make this even worse is we're not
even at what they refer to asgeneral intelligence.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
AIs, yet no.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I mean, we're just talking about AI having the
general intelligence of just anyrandom human on the planet.
They still have not createdthat yet, but they're on their
way.
I mean, what, barely five yearsago?
What did this technology looklike compared to now?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
It was very basic, it was rough, yeah it was very
rough.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
For the longest time, AI couldn't seem to draw hands,
and it's slowly getting better.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't too long ago that your
Alexa device or your Siri deviceor whatever, could only do a
handful of things, and now lookat what it can do.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I mean, it's not perfect by any means.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
No, but the point is some of them actually have
additional time to where it willlisten for an additional
response.
So it's getting there.
It's a slow process, but it'salmost like you're somewhat able
to have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I mean, and that's my point For his advance and
everything he can do, do it'sstill not even general
intelligence no, I mean we canuse it to automate our homes,
sort of yeah and some otherthings.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well, to a point, yeah, yeah, I could see being
able to use that to createeffects or whatever for a ritual
in your home lighting orwhatever else you know, but I
don't know if I really want todo that in my sacred space.
I don't either.
I would rather use more naturalmeans to create the effects
(19:59):
that I want.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well, even then, you're doing certain rituals and
stuff that are supposed to bekept secret and you have these
devices listening in your house.
So I have to ask the question,since these devices are always
listening.
If we're sitting like me andyou just sitting here talking
mysteries or whatever, does thatmean we're breaking our oaths?
(20:23):
Because, technically, thedevice is not an initiate, it
has not been trained.
It is initiate.
It has not been trained, it hasnot been placed into a space
properly prepared for it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So are we inadvertently maybe breaking our
oaths?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I mean not.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean right now you have to say a certain
catchphrase to get them to start, but technically they're still
always listening.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, I mean they are .
I mean, just the other day atwork the assistant on my phone
went off while I was having aconversation with somebody, like
I didn't ask you for anything.
Having a conversation withsomebody.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Like I didn't ask you for anything.
Well, I mean, that was likesitting in an electronics class
and the teachers say every lastdevice name should make all the
phones Right.
And then look at us, go now,turn them off.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Right, but yeah, that's I don't know.
That's definitely something tothink about.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Just have to ask these questions.
I mean, we do have them on usall the time.
They technically are listeningto us, true, you know that would
be interesting to hear a fewelders have that little
conversation, right?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Where y'all at, let's talk.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, yeah, before you have any mystery talk,
please turn off the device.
Hit mute yep.
Please turn off your devicesbut again, there's a lot to this
technology coming up.
My question also is is they'reon the verge?
Where in the world they'regoing to be able to go to disney
ultra plus and you're going tobe able to, and it's just going
(22:15):
to be an ai and you're going togo?
Hey, I want to see a movie ofthis character with this
character doing this and itgenerates it.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Oh lord well, I mean, they're already kind of doing
that, because I've seen somerecent AI videos floating around
that are, surprisingly, reallywell done.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yes, it's almost scary Because back in the day we
would go to work.
We would go hey, did you watchthe latest episode of Lost?
Did you watch the latestepisode of Supernatural Right?
Are we going to lose that partof our culture?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
oh, yeah, probably yeah you know.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I mean, how are you going to talk about?
What would you watch if it'sperfectly custom to you right?
What did you watch?
I mean well, I'll watch, youknow.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Uh, another hercules, you with me, I watched Hercules
do some work with Wonder Womanright.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
For some reason I did a movie of Jane Austen and
Leonard Nimoy oh lord, we'reusing the plot of the Andromeda
project right.
Leonard Nimoy.
Oh Lord, we're using the plotof the Andromeda Project, right?
How do I go to?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
work and discuss that .
If something like that becomesthe norm, then, yeah, we're
going to lose that part of oursociety.
We're no longer going to beable to recommend TV shows,
recommend movies, because it'sall just going to be custom
entertainment.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Or, on the upside, could it become like more like
YouTube, where those who arecreative enough to create these
stories but their stories outthere, that they've created
through AI for you to watch?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Well, I could see that too, but if it, if it comes
down to a more individual level, then yeah, it's just going to
be custom entertainment all thetime.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that movie.
Yeah, here redo this movie Ididn't like that end and do it
this way instead.
Right, Right, everybody becomestheir own director I really
didn't like how the Harry Pottershowster shows really ended, so
make hermione the star.
So again, I.
(24:38):
I can see where in the worldthis technology could be helpful
to pull us together as asociety and a community, but I
could see where in the world itcould easily rip us apart and
take us down a path where youwere born to be a mailman.
We've told you your whole lifeyou want to be a mailman.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
No.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I mean don't get me wrong the person that's probably
raised that way will probablybe happy and very joyful about
being a mailman for the rest oftheir lives.
But Probably, yeah.
I don't see that suppressingthe human desire to be more, to
grow, to learn.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I hope not I hope it doesn't.
I hope it never gets to thatpoint, because if it does, then
we're screwed.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
So yeah, I hope it never gets to that point.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
The only good thing about it is hey, everybody will
be happy.
Blissfully ignorant, but happy.
I am so ready for some coffee.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yep, me too.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter, youtube andReddit.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Maze of stone and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing fires, and so
it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of ourdays.
(26:25):
So walk with me till morning.
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