March 12, 2025 • 31 mins
Discover the often-overlooked power of "ritual homework" - those sacred tasks and objects that follow us home after the circle closes. Our conversation explores how these intentional practices create a vital bridge between ceremonial space and daily life, preventing spiritual practice from becoming disconnected from our everyday existence.
We dive into various forms this homework might take - from nurturing plants and re-gifting sacred objects to contemplating meaningful phrases or interacting with the natural world. For newcomers, these assignments can feel intimidating, but we emphasize there's no grading system here - just opportunities for deeper connection. Drawing fascinating parallels with Catholic traditions like Palm Sunday crosses and Ash Wednesday markings, we reveal how this concept transcends religious boundaries.
For those leading rituals, it is important to introduce take-home elements gradually and meaningfully. The key lies in creating organic extensions of ritual work rather than arbitrary tasks and involving participants in the creation process whenever possible. This delicate balance acknowledges a fundamental truth: while we can't live in sacred space constantly, neither should our spirituality exist only within designated times and places.
The episode's second half transitions to examining concerns about Christian nationalism in America. We unpack why, despite growing media attention, such movements face significant obstacles - including constitutional protections and, perhaps most importantly, the incredible diversity within Christianity itself. Which denomination would prevail? Which interpretations would dominate? These questions reveal the improbability of a truly unified Christian nationalist movement gaining meaningful traction.
Join us for this thoughtful exploration of how to carry your practice beyond ritual space while maintaining the delicate balance between the sacred and mundane worlds.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
So, lord Knight, we've talked a lot about rituals
and what makes a good ritualand what a ritual is composed of
and what you shouldn't do for aritual, but something we've
never really addressed is how agood ritual often comes with a
(00:47):
bit of homework.
Yes, yeah, or some take homecomponent.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, I mean, we're not talking about anything.
Sometimes not too difficult.
No, Maybe go home bury this.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Bury this, hang this, meditate on this, put this
somewhere that you'll bereminded of it.
Yeah, occasionally it's, youknow, write something about
something, or yeah, it's usuallynot anything super intense.
But why?
Let's talk about the why.
(01:21):
Why.
Why do we do that?
Why is ritual homeworkimportant?
Because, again.
We believe that our lives shouldinterrupt our religion, not our
religion interrupt our livesRight practitioners to bring
(01:51):
some circle back home and backto their mundane, to be a
reminder and to be a moreintegral part of their
day-to-day.
We see, however, a lot ofrituals where that's not the
case and it's just sort of we'rehere, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And I always kind of wonder about that.
Like to me, any good servicesermon mass right there has to
be a take-home portion.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
To me it should at least strike up some
conversation.
Something it's seasonal, itseems like rituals should that?
Rituals should motivate you towant to research more into this.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Or to look into or to do I don't know how to put that
, what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It should evoke the want for more connection.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, not be some kind of a patch for it?
Right, you know, like anicotine patch, like I got my, I
got my, my, my monthly dose ofritual.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I'm good, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'm good I'll just put it slap.
Another one on next month.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, but we also have those people who are.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I'm good for a year.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah Well you know, is hoping that we can instill a
need or won't to also still bein ritual space.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
The majority of our religion is literally focused on
that ritual part, not itself.
Right, I do.
Are you with me?
Yeah, why?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
even though those rituals mimic, yeah, life at the
same time it's hard because wethere's this weird balance of if
everything is sacred, thennothing is sacred, right, right.
And so it's hard inside ofritual space, because we
construct something and we buildsomething that is very powerful
(03:54):
and very palpable, but we can'tlive in that all the time.
No, I mean we could, but itwould be a little challenging.
Well, I mean, that's well.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I hate to be this way .
There are people that go outthere and do the lesser
banishing ritual.
Where they come home they dothis.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
They're technically sitting in the middle of their
living room watching TV insidesacred space, right inside
sacred space, yeah, and I meanit's one way to get used to it,
it's one way to have it affectyou a little less and be able to
function more effectively in it.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Or could it be overdoing it?
Too much exposure, yeah, takingyou too far onto the spiritual
plane, not allowing you to focuson this plane.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, always a risk.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
So again delicate balance here, right?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So how do we give out little doses yeah?
Homework Right so what are someof the types of homework that
you've done throughout?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
the years, oh, that have been given to me or that
you've given oh that's beengiven to me or that you've given
.
Oh, let's see.
I believe there was one year weall passed the plant around.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Everybody had to take care of a plant for a whole
year.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Everybody had to keep it alive, wow.
And they had to bring it backfor each full moon.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh, my goodness, oh, wow, okay, that's cool.
Okay, we have.
Yeah, we've had rituals wherewe've had plants that have been
given to everyone in circleright to take home and to keep
alive.
Um, we have had rituals whereyou are given a gift inside of
(05:46):
circle that you are theninstructed to re-gift To someone
else.
To someone else.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh no, those are fun because, again, how do you tell
the other person what in theworld is going?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
on.
Yeah.
Well, it depends on howforthright you want to be.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And the time of the season, because Christmas is a
good way.
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, um gosh, we have had um seeds or um anything
botanical right that needs tobe taken care of or replanted or
purpose I think we even tookwild seed just to go out
anywhere randomly to throw themout.
Yep, what else we have had?
Rituals that involve quotes,phrases, parables, right, that
(06:33):
are then to be meditated uponfor a certain amount of time or
taken into your mundane life asreminders.
Those are always fun littleaffirmations, and the like.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I've seen some yeah, we're.
I've seen a lot where we havethe people interact with other
people outside.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, we've done things with music and
musical instruments.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
They're meant to.
Yeah, just bring a little sparkof music magic into your life
outside of ritual space.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
But now this whole entire process can be a little
disconcerting when you firstcome into circle and it's your
first time, and then you startto realize you have homework.
What was that like for you thatfirst time?
You're sitting there in ritualand I go hey, here, take care of
this sitting there in ritualand I go hey, here, take care of
(07:31):
this.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You know, I think early on it's a little
nerve-wracking because you don'twant to mess up, you don't.
You don't want to be the, thewitch whose dog ate your
homework right, or who forgot todo your homework, so that can
be a little, a little tough, andso you become a little obsessed
in that regard right um.
(07:52):
And then there's also somethingthat happens where I think
early on we get really um,sometimes intense about that
came from sacred space.
Don't touch that right, webecome protective unnecessarily
of the thing right yeah, whichit which you know.
(08:13):
The irony of that is,technically everything comes
from sacred space stop it, it'sfine, um, and then sometimes
it's incorporating somethinginto your own magical practice
that you normally wouldn't Right.
Right, I was given or giftedthis thing.
How do I use this now?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How do I get creative about what I can do with this?
No, that's always interesting.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's definitely when you start taking these lessons
outside of circle, when youstart paying attention, you
start to see things and noticethings that you normally don't.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Oh yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Most of the witches I know already know what color
the leaves are going to changeand when they're going to change
.
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I mean, you know we're sitting here in January in
North Carolina, it's freakingcold and we are already talking
about planting and gardening.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
No, not even.
It doesn't even sound out ofplace to us.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Not at all, even though the ground's too cold to
work right now.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
But yeah, when you're first coming into this thing,
people will go what?
So?
Be aware out there.
Hey, you might get a ritual youcould wind up with homework.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's not.
I think it's becoming more andmore a thing and I, and again I
think it's, if nothing else,it's always nice to plant a seed
inside of ritual or an ideathat people take with them.
We don't do a lot of praying incircle.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because I would rather you take that prayer home
, Home and yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Now let's take this concept and compare it to why
don't the Catholics do this?
Or do Catholics do this?
They do Because I can't thinkof any of the Southern Baptist
church I went to that did stufflike that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The Catholics do it because it's part of the
sacrament process, like theCatholics do it with like
rosaries and prayer beads andyou know things like that do it
with like rosaries and prayerbeads and you know things like
that.
But the Catholics to me, youknow again, this is where I
always say it kind of my thatupbringing really primed me to
be a pagan.
I mean, I remember, you know,palm Sunday we would get the
(10:37):
palms and as a kid I neverunderstood what the big deal was
.
I'm like what's with the palms?
And then my dad would take them.
And you know, some people wouldjust take the palm and like
hang it somewhere in their houseor just no, my dad, because he
learned from his dad, knew howto take, take the palm and tie
(10:59):
it up into a cross right andtake other little pieces of pot
of the palm to me and he wouldlike origami, a palm, and then
he would make crosses foreverybody in the family.
And these things were all overthe house.
You know, they were stuckeverywhere.
So one would be in somebody'scar, you'd see it in somebody's
(11:22):
bathroom mirror, you know, yeah,I love that idea, that's just
but it's basically, it's um,it's the, it's a bridget's eye,
it's the same concept as usmaking one of those.
You know the catholics were big, I mean, you know, uh, wearing
the ashes on Ash Wednesday andwalking around with your smudgy
(11:43):
forehead all day, and you knowsame thing.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
As in the blue star.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, they were.
There was always something thatfelt like you were kind of
being given a bit of homework.
Yes, yeah, but, but it's but.
It's constructive, it's nice, Ienjoy it anyway.
If a group isn't used to doingthat yet, how do you introduce
it?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I'd slowly to start off with.
Maybe do one full moon.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Okay, then see how that goes, then do another and
see how people take to it,because some people will, some
people won't yeah, you know,because there's many times we've
gone to ritual and yes, there'shomework and yes, and see how
people take to it, because somepeople will, some people won't.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, you know, because there's many times we've
gone to ritual and, yes,there's homework and yes, you
find my homework laying on mydesk here.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, I think too.
The reality is there's nograding system.
No, Don't make people feel likethere's an obligation or like
they have to.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Well, we're never going to ask you the next full
moon.
Did you do it, did you write?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
we just automatically assume you do and go on and we
go on yeah, we don't, we don'ttry to make it an accountability
system, because I think whenyou do that, then you start
making people nervous no, butthe only time we would get
involved in that is if we do ameditation or something and
somebody has something thatcomes up.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, and then that's specifically yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
You're right.
You know what?
Because usually we havestudents come to us and go hey,
so I did my full moon homeworkand here's what happened.
And then we're like, oh, okay,yeah, and then it opens up a
secondary discussion or you knowsomething in class that we talk
about.
Yeah, yeah, that's true, butdon't, don't make people feel
like they have to report ontheir homework.
(13:31):
Otherwise that will, yeah, thatwill not go well.
No, but get creative and Ithink, wherever possible, get
people involved in the makingprocess.
Yes, wherever possible, getpeople involved in the making
process.
Yes, get them involved in thehands-on, because that is really
where I think you start tofoster that idea of making it
(13:54):
more of a day-to-day process.
Yep, I like that.
Yeah, ready for coffee?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, ready for coffee.
Yeah, all right here lately ona few of the pagan podcasts and
on the news and stuff I've heardpeople start to talk more and
more about this Christiannationalism.
Okay, all right, so let's startwith what defines Christian
(14:19):
nationalism.
Well, from my understanding,they're wanting the government
to run as if it was the church.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Right.
In other words, all laws arebased on the Bible and ran,
therefore as such, I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So basically the church runs the government, not
the government running thechurch Runs the church, right
Okay?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Kind of like in Rome with the Catholic Church Right,
I mean technically the Pope istheir president of their little
country.
Yeah, in a manner of speaking,in a manner of speaking, all
your taxes then become tithes tothe church, right?
I see a lot of people worriedabout this because it is growing
(15:03):
.
It is becoming more and more ofa larger movement, but I don't
see it as a movement that willever actually go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, it's been a movement.
From my understanding that'spopped up, you know, over the
past five decades or so.
I don't know it's probablylonger than that, but it
periodically pops its head upand right, but with the new
election and all this it is.
This is reassurged right as atopic in there and more and more
(15:37):
people seem to maybe belistening to what these people
are saying versus well, I thinkthe reason they're more
concerned about it now isbecause they were very vocal in
their support for a particularcandidate.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Which we're not getting into.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, we're not here to discuss all of that, but I'm
just saying, though, because ofthat being so public and so
vocal, and that people areconsidering okay, maybe this
really is a viable threat toreligion, do you?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
actually see this as an actual threat I don't?
I see it as kind of like thetea party and how it sort of
went.
I think this would do the samething every time yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I don't see it as a viable threat, simply because if
they were to take control,there's going to be a lot of
infighting amongst themselves,because then it's going to come
down to well, whichinterpretation are we following?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Are we going to be a country of Baptists?
Are we going to be a country ofCatholics?
Are we going to be four-squaregospel?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Are we going to be and see?
That's where I don't understandwhere the Christian
nationalists are coming from.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Because these Christian what's?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
the background.
What is the cohesivenessbetween denominations that
brings them together?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Because me and you both know these denominations
all right, sure A lot of theseand I'm telling you right now
they don't get along with oneanother.
They get along without eachother, just like pagan groups
get along with each othersometimes.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Well, and you know, there is a coalition of Baptists
who are fighting against theChristian nationalist
organizations.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
On top of it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
So, but again that's what I'm saying.
I would like to talk to someoneand find out what's the
cohesiveness of thisorganization.
What brings you together.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
What sect, which teachings are you going to
follow Right and which onesaren't?
So I don't.
I mean because I know there's abig battle between the Baptists
and theolics over the wholeentire worshiping of false idols
praying to mary and all theseagain.
There again there's a big issuereligiously there.
(17:50):
I mean literally.
There are baptists that thinkthat catholics are going to go
to hell because they don't theypray to other things besides
christ.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, this is all pretty much common knowledge,
though, so I mean my point hereis why are we so worried about
this?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
They can't even get along with each other.
How are they going to get alonglong enough to actually run a
country?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, that's the thing.
If Christian nationalistorganization Right, I'm going to
call it that Right Rightorganization right, I'm gonna
call it that right, right.
If they do have a cohesivefoundation that they're
following, then that could be anissue.
Otherwise, I think it's goingto come down to, there's going
to, like I said before, there'sgoing to be a lot of infighting.
(18:34):
There's going to be a lot ofheads butting because this
portion of the organizationwants to follow this particular
path.
This portion over here on theright wants to follow this
particular portion and nobody'sgoing to agree on anything.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And we don't even want to bring the snake handlers
and stuff into this to make iteven worse on top.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Well, my guess is they probably don't associate
with them.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
But again, they're Christian.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I'm sorry.
I keep on seeing the pagancommunity talk about the
Christians as if they're thismassive force, this massive wall
, and I don't see them that way.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, and there's still a lot of pagans out there
who tend to bash the Christianreligion.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot more hostile intent from
the pagan community towardChristianity now than what there
used to be, I think so.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I mean we could be wrong about that.
We could be wrong about that,but I see that as a major
problem in and of itself becauseI think in some ways that's
helping to feed folks likeChristian nationalists.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Right, because now we have an enemy.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Right.
So it's kind of giving themfuel for the fire, if you will.
Right.
And I think if we all just camedown to what we try to teach
and I know some other groups tryto teach is an acceptance and a
tolerance of other religions,right and understand that we all
(20:11):
have the freedom to believewhat we want to believe.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
And to worship the way we see fit Right.
Without being interfered byanybody else.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
If we all just come to that agreement.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
We still haven't even talked about the whole entire
thing that the United Stateswill promote no religion
whatsoever or establish areligion.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, I believe that is in the Constitution.
It is literally written in theConstitution.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yes, so my understanding is christian
nationalists would have to takethat part out right, there would
have to be some changes to ourconstitution because you can't
have a church of america no or afederally church of I don't
know how you say that kind oflike the church of england.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well, yeah, it would yeah, it would be a national
religion.
Yeah, just like you knowcertain nations have, you know,
a national language, right, anofficial language.
It would be the officialreligion.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I mean because, in and of itself, Christian
nationalists would turn thiscountry into basically what
Muslim countries are.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, I think it would go back to the whole.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
well, yeah, you're right, I mean not exactly you
know, but I just mean as in thetone and feel.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It would go back to the reason this country was
founded was because of this.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, this is what we ran away from.
A government sitting theregoing.
You must believe and worshipthis way.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Right.
So, therefore, I don't think,if people truly believe in the
Constitution, if people trulybelieve in the foundation of
America, I don't think this willbe a problem.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I don't think it is either and, again, I don't think
the coalition would staytogether long enough because,
like you said, because of theinfighting, Do we need to make a
voice against them?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Do we need to stand up and say this cannot happen,
right, or do we just let it goand let it fizzle out?
Well, I don't say we.
Do we take that chance?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I don't say we let it fizzle out or anything.
We should talk about it.
But again, when you're sittingthere talking about it, I don't
think we should be talking aboutit as if it is World War III
coming over the hill tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, but I think we do have to understand that it is a
threat.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Again, it's always going to be a threat when you
have government.
Again, it's the same thing.
Would you feel the same way ifthere was a pagan nationalist
movement?
Yeah, I would.
I'd say I would too.
I wouldn't want that, because,again, which pagan tradition are
you?
Following which law and whichmyth, and what if we don't all
(23:00):
like those?
all good questions you know,because my understanding, there
are people.
There are people who are inthese muslim countries who do
want to leave because they don'twant to be part of this
religion anymore because of theway it treats them.
Yeah, and I'm sorry.
Once you're in those situations, in those type of countries,
(23:20):
you normally can't leave, orit's very hard to.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I think it's very hard for them to leave.
You know, Not that they can't.
There's too much in place tomake it an easy retreat Right or
an easy escape.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
You know I mean because in America I don't see
how in the world they do it,unless they make each state a
different Christian religion.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That's going to create a whole new set of
problems.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
God, yes, I mean essentially.
You can't do that either,because you know, like I said,
then you're going to have statesat war with each other and then
we're just going to be thedivided states of America.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
There will be no unity Again don't get me wrong,
I'm with you.
Something we should keep oureye on and watch the world goes
on, because, well, weird shithappens that it does All right.
This is not as much of a.
I don't think it is as much ofshit happens that it does All
right that you know.
This is not as much of a.
I don't think it is as much ofthis.
I'm more worried about WorldWar III breaking out in Europe
than I am over a Christiannationalist movement actually
(24:29):
taking root Right.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
with me.
Yeah, I'm more worried aboutthat comment that's supposed to
hit us in.
What 2036?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Whatever that's supposed to hit us in what?
2036?
Whatever, I'm less worriedabout that than anything else.
I'll be lucky if I'm stillalive around that time.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I mean, I'll just say there's a lot on my list that
I'm more concerned about.
That comes ahead of that.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
yeah, that comes ahead of this, and I don't
understand why in the world thepagan community is really
getting that hung up on it.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Are you with me and I ?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
don't mean, I'm not talking about, not talking about
it, but Well, I think it's justthe nature of the generations
now that tend not all of them,but most of them tend to get
triggered over little things andthen it's a whole dramatic
effect.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
There are more drama queens now than there have ever
been in this nation.
People get ticked off over theslightest little thing and make
a big deal out of it.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
They turn mountains into molehills.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Excuse me, they turn molehills into mountains.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, and so it kind of makes me wonder is there a?
Way that we can fix that.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
But with that in case , is the Christian nationalist
movement actually as big as wethink it is, or has it just been
overhyped for media attention?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
That's a good question.
I mean, how are we going toknow?
That's not on the US Census.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Are you a white Christian nationalist?
Are you a no?
Are you a white Christiannationalist?
Are you a black Christian?
Are you just a Christiannationalist?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
That is not on the US Census, then I'm sorry, then
you stick the whole black andwhite thing.
That even makes it even worse.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm like really Because now we're back to.
Okay.
Are we resurrecting the olddays of the KKK Right?
Is okay, are we resurrectingthe old days of the kkk right?
Is that what we're actuallydoing when we're talking about?
Yeah, well, not we, but is thatwhat the christian nationalists
are trying to do well I'm sorry, good lord, come on y'all,
we've heard what.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
What was that we?
We listened to, about their,their prayer or something, or
their national anthem, and I'mkind of y'all have lost y'all's
mind.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, it was some type of creed that they were
praying and it was all.
It was very disturbing.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
It was very arrogant and not Christian whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
No, it was very Authoritative yes, authoritarian
.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yes, yes, like I said , it was very authoritative,
authoritarian.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes, yes, like I said , it was very disturbing.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, I mean.
I guess, each their own.
I'm sure they're.
Well, I don't want to say I'msure, but there's possibly a
pagan equivalent out there.
Could be, it would not surpriseme.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
They just haven't made themselves known.
They're just not as known Couldbe.
I mean, surprise me, they justhaven't made themselves known.
They're just not as known Couldbe.
I mean, I wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Are there pagan nationalists?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I wouldn't rule it out.
I mean, there's probably somefolks that say, well, we are a
pagan nation.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Well, you know, but again, I'm not going to sit here
and bang my head up becausesome Christian concepts,
concepts were weaving into our.
Yeah, I'm not gonna set my hairon fire for this well, that's,
that's a.
That's a different story.
That's a whole nother argument.
That's a whole nother thingthere, but yeah no, I, I do not
(27:53):
think we were originally set upto be specifically a christian
nation?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I don't think so either.
I think I think because of whatour founding fathers and and
the early settlers and wherewe're coming from.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
The place that they were coming from were very
christianized nations to beginwith, right I mean because y'all
got to remember the wholeeverybody over here, all the
people that England let comeover here were the Quakers and
all the religions they did notagree with.
Right Came here.
They weren't just asked, theywere sort of encouraged to leave
(28:29):
.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Probably yeah, a lot.
It's like you want to leave.
Please leave.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Please we won't.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Because, you do not fit in with our beliefs.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Right, so again you're going to wind up with the
same problem here, this is whatthis country and you're wanting
to go right back to it.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah Now.
Did our founding fathers haveany idea that paganism at some
point would rear its head upagain and become what it has
today?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I think some had a hope, probably.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
I really do believe there were a few of the founding
fathers that were morepagan-ish.
I wouldn't, say pagan orwitchcraft, but more pagan-ish.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
In their thoughts.
Could have been, and there wasa hope that there would be a
real enlightenment to a religionof wisdom and enlightenment and
nothing of authoritarian.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But again, when they sat down and they wrote the
Constitution, that was in there.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Freedom of religion.
It's literally the first.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And if we go to a Christian nationalist nation?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
You're going to have to take that out.
You have to take that outBecause then you can't speak
against the church or the actualgovernment either.
Right, right, because now yourspeech is going to have to be
curtailed.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Which is also yep, it's going to infect our freedom
of speech.
So good, figure.
Hold another can of worms,which is also yep, it's going to
infect our freedom of speech.
So good for you.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Hold another can of worms another can of worms like
I said, I don't think it'sanything to worry about directly
.
I don't see a group like thisever, because again these
questions will come up.
People will ask these questionsof them.
I hope they would, as they, ifthey take power and stuff like
that, then ask these questionsof them.
I hope they would.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
If they take power and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
But again, I have a thousand other things I'm more
concerned about than thisactually happening.
Let's go get some coffee,alright?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Facebook Discord, twitter of stone and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres, and so
it is the end of our day, sowalk with me till morning breaks
.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials CoffeeTalk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
So, lord Knight, we've talked a lot about rituals
and what makes a good ritualand what a ritual is composed of
and what you shouldn't do for aritual, but something we've
never really addressed is how agood ritual often comes with a
(00:47):
bit of homework.
Yes, yeah, or some take homecomponent.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, I mean, we're not talking about anything.
Sometimes not too difficult.
No, Maybe go home bury this.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Bury this, hang this, meditate on this, put this
somewhere that you'll bereminded of it.
Yeah, occasionally it's, youknow, write something about
something, or yeah, it's usuallynot anything super intense.
But why?
Let's talk about the why.
(01:21):
Why.
Why do we do that?
Why is ritual homeworkimportant?
Because, again.
We believe that our lives shouldinterrupt our religion, not our
religion interrupt our livesRight practitioners to bring
(01:51):
some circle back home and backto their mundane, to be a
reminder and to be a moreintegral part of their
day-to-day.
We see, however, a lot ofrituals where that's not the
case and it's just sort of we'rehere, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And I always kind of wonder about that.
Like to me, any good servicesermon mass right there has to
be a take-home portion.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
To me it should at least strike up some
conversation.
Something it's seasonal, itseems like rituals should that?
Rituals should motivate you towant to research more into this.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Or to look into or to do I don't know how to put that
, what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
It should evoke the want for more connection.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, not be some kind of a patch for it?
Right, you know, like anicotine patch, like I got my, I
got my, my, my monthly dose ofritual.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I'm good, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I'm good I'll just put it slap.
Another one on next month.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, but we also have those people who are.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I'm good for a year.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah Well you know, is hoping that we can instill a
need or won't to also still bein ritual space.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
The majority of our religion is literally focused on
that ritual part, not itself.
Right, I do.
Are you with me?
Yeah, why?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
even though those rituals mimic, yeah, life at the
same time it's hard because wethere's this weird balance of if
everything is sacred, thennothing is sacred, right, right.
And so it's hard inside ofritual space, because we
construct something and we buildsomething that is very powerful
(03:54):
and very palpable, but we can'tlive in that all the time.
No, I mean we could, but itwould be a little challenging.
Well, I mean, that's well.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I hate to be this way .
There are people that go outthere and do the lesser
banishing ritual.
Where they come home they dothis.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
They're technically sitting in the middle of their
living room watching TV insidesacred space, right inside
sacred space, yeah, and I meanit's one way to get used to it,
it's one way to have it affectyou a little less and be able to
function more effectively in it.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Or could it be overdoing it?
Too much exposure, yeah, takingyou too far onto the spiritual
plane, not allowing you to focuson this plane.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, always a risk.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
So again delicate balance here, right?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So how do we give out little doses yeah?
Homework Right so what are someof the types of homework that
you've done throughout?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
the years, oh, that have been given to me or that
you've given oh that's beengiven to me or that you've given
.
Oh, let's see.
I believe there was one year weall passed the plant around.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Everybody had to take care of a plant for a whole
year.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Everybody had to keep it alive, wow.
And they had to bring it backfor each full moon.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh, my goodness, oh, wow, okay, that's cool.
Okay, we have.
Yeah, we've had rituals wherewe've had plants that have been
given to everyone in circleright to take home and to keep
alive.
Um, we have had rituals whereyou are given a gift inside of
(05:46):
circle that you are theninstructed to re-gift To someone
else.
To someone else.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh no, those are fun because, again, how do you tell
the other person what in theworld is going?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
on.
Yeah.
Well, it depends on howforthright you want to be.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And the time of the season, because Christmas is a
good way.
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, um gosh, we have had um seeds or um anything
botanical right that needs tobe taken care of or replanted or
purpose I think we even tookwild seed just to go out
anywhere randomly to throw themout.
Yep, what else we have had?
Rituals that involve quotes,phrases, parables, right, that
(06:33):
are then to be meditated uponfor a certain amount of time or
taken into your mundane life asreminders.
Those are always fun littleaffirmations, and the like.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I've seen some yeah, we're.
I've seen a lot where we havethe people interact with other
people outside.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, we've done things with music and
musical instruments.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
They're meant to.
Yeah, just bring a little sparkof music magic into your life
outside of ritual space.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
But now this whole entire process can be a little
disconcerting when you firstcome into circle and it's your
first time, and then you startto realize you have homework.
What was that like for you thatfirst time?
You're sitting there in ritualand I go hey, here, take care of
this sitting there in ritualand I go hey, here, take care of
(07:31):
this.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You know, I think early on it's a little
nerve-wracking because you don'twant to mess up, you don't.
You don't want to be the, thewitch whose dog ate your
homework right, or who forgot todo your homework, so that can
be a little, a little tough, andso you become a little obsessed
in that regard right um.
(07:52):
And then there's also somethingthat happens where I think
early on we get really um,sometimes intense about that
came from sacred space.
Don't touch that right, webecome protective unnecessarily
of the thing right yeah, whichit which you know.
(08:13):
The irony of that is,technically everything comes
from sacred space stop it, it'sfine, um, and then sometimes
it's incorporating somethinginto your own magical practice
that you normally wouldn't Right.
Right, I was given or giftedthis thing.
How do I use this now?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How do I get creative about what I can do with this?
No, that's always interesting.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
It's definitely when you start taking these lessons
outside of circle, when youstart paying attention, you
start to see things and noticethings that you normally don't.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Oh yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Most of the witches I know already know what color
the leaves are going to changeand when they're going to change
.
Pretty much.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I mean, you know we're sitting here in January in
North Carolina, it's freakingcold and we are already talking
about planting and gardening.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
No, not even.
It doesn't even sound out ofplace to us.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Not at all, even though the ground's too cold to
work right now.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
But yeah, when you're first coming into this thing,
people will go what?
So?
Be aware out there.
Hey, you might get a ritual youcould wind up with homework.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's not.
I think it's becoming more andmore a thing and I, and again I
think it's, if nothing else,it's always nice to plant a seed
inside of ritual or an ideathat people take with them.
We don't do a lot of praying incircle.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because I would rather you take that prayer home
, Home and yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Now let's take this concept and compare it to why
don't the Catholics do this?
Or do Catholics do this?
They do Because I can't thinkof any of the Southern Baptist
church I went to that did stufflike that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The Catholics do it because it's part of the
sacrament process, like theCatholics do it with like
rosaries and prayer beads andyou know things like that do it
with like rosaries and prayerbeads and you know things like
that.
But the Catholics to me, youknow again, this is where I
always say it kind of my thatupbringing really primed me to
be a pagan.
I mean, I remember, you know,palm Sunday we would get the
(10:37):
palms and as a kid I neverunderstood what the big deal was
.
I'm like what's with the palms?
And then my dad would take them.
And you know, some people wouldjust take the palm and like
hang it somewhere in their houseor just no, my dad, because he
learned from his dad, knew howto take, take the palm and tie
(10:59):
it up into a cross right andtake other little pieces of pot
of the palm to me and he wouldlike origami, a palm, and then
he would make crosses foreverybody in the family.
And these things were all overthe house.
You know, they were stuckeverywhere.
So one would be in somebody'scar, you'd see it in somebody's
(11:22):
bathroom mirror, you know, yeah,I love that idea, that's just
but it's basically, it's um,it's the, it's a bridget's eye,
it's the same concept as usmaking one of those.
You know the catholics were big, I mean, you know, uh, wearing
the ashes on Ash Wednesday andwalking around with your smudgy
(11:43):
forehead all day, and you knowsame thing.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
As in the blue star.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, they were.
There was always something thatfelt like you were kind of
being given a bit of homework.
Yes, yeah, but, but it's but.
It's constructive, it's nice, Ienjoy it anyway.
If a group isn't used to doingthat yet, how do you introduce
it?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I'd slowly to start off with.
Maybe do one full moon.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Okay, then see how that goes, then do another and
see how people take to it,because some people will, some
people won't yeah, you know,because there's many times we've
gone to ritual and yes, there'shomework and yes, and see how
people take to it, because somepeople will, some people won't.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, you know, because there's many times we've
gone to ritual and, yes,there's homework and yes, you
find my homework laying on mydesk here.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, I think too.
The reality is there's nograding system.
No, Don't make people feel likethere's an obligation or like
they have to.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Well, we're never going to ask you the next full
moon.
Did you do it, did you write?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
we just automatically assume you do and go on and we
go on yeah, we don't, we don'ttry to make it an accountability
system, because I think whenyou do that, then you start
making people nervous no, butthe only time we would get
involved in that is if we do ameditation or something and
somebody has something thatcomes up.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, and then that's specifically yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
You're right.
You know what?
Because usually we havestudents come to us and go hey,
so I did my full moon homeworkand here's what happened.
And then we're like, oh, okay,yeah, and then it opens up a
secondary discussion or you knowsomething in class that we talk
about.
Yeah, yeah, that's true, butdon't, don't make people feel
like they have to report ontheir homework.
(13:31):
Otherwise that will, yeah, thatwill not go well.
No, but get creative and Ithink, wherever possible, get
people involved in the makingprocess.
Yes, wherever possible, getpeople involved in the making
process.
Yes, get them involved in thehands-on, because that is really
where I think you start tofoster that idea of making it
(13:54):
more of a day-to-day process.
Yep, I like that.
Yeah, ready for coffee?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, ready for coffee.
Yeah, all right here lately ona few of the pagan podcasts and
on the news and stuff I've heardpeople start to talk more and
more about this Christiannationalism.
Okay, all right, so let's startwith what defines Christian
(14:19):
nationalism.
Well, from my understanding,they're wanting the government
to run as if it was the church.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Right.
In other words, all laws arebased on the Bible and ran,
therefore as such, I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So basically the church runs the government, not
the government running thechurch Runs the church, right
Okay?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Kind of like in Rome with the Catholic Church Right,
I mean technically the Pope istheir president of their little
country.
Yeah, in a manner of speaking,in a manner of speaking, all
your taxes then become tithes tothe church, right?
I see a lot of people worriedabout this because it is growing
(15:03):
.
It is becoming more and more ofa larger movement, but I don't
see it as a movement that willever actually go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, it's been a movement.
From my understanding that'spopped up, you know, over the
past five decades or so.
I don't know it's probablylonger than that, but it
periodically pops its head upand right, but with the new
election and all this it is.
This is reassurged right as atopic in there and more and more
(15:37):
people seem to maybe belistening to what these people
are saying versus well, I thinkthe reason they're more
concerned about it now isbecause they were very vocal in
their support for a particularcandidate.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Which we're not getting into.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah, we're not here to discuss all of that, but I'm
just saying, though, because ofthat being so public and so
vocal, and that people areconsidering okay, maybe this
really is a viable threat toreligion, do you?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
actually see this as an actual threat I don't?
I see it as kind of like thetea party and how it sort of
went.
I think this would do the samething every time yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
I don't see it as a viable threat, simply because if
they were to take control,there's going to be a lot of
infighting amongst themselves,because then it's going to come
down to well, whichinterpretation are we following?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Are we going to be a country of Baptists?
Are we going to be a country ofCatholics?
Are we going to be four-squaregospel?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Are we going to be and see?
That's where I don't understandwhere the Christian
nationalists are coming from.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Because these Christian what's?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
the background.
What is the cohesivenessbetween denominations that
brings them together?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Because me and you both know these denominations
all right, sure A lot of theseand I'm telling you right now
they don't get along with oneanother.
They get along without eachother, just like pagan groups
get along with each othersometimes.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Well, and you know, there is a coalition of Baptists
who are fighting against theChristian nationalist
organizations.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
On top of it.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
So, but again that's what I'm saying.
I would like to talk to someoneand find out what's the
cohesiveness of thisorganization.
What brings you together.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
What sect, which teachings are you going to
follow Right and which onesaren't?
So I don't.
I mean because I know there's abig battle between the Baptists
and theolics over the wholeentire worshiping of false idols
praying to mary and all theseagain.
There again there's a big issuereligiously there.
(17:50):
I mean literally.
There are baptists that thinkthat catholics are going to go
to hell because they don't theypray to other things besides
christ.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, this is all pretty much common knowledge,
though, so I mean my point hereis why are we so worried about
this?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
They can't even get along with each other.
How are they going to get alonglong enough to actually run a
country?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, that's the thing.
If Christian nationalistorganization Right, I'm going to
call it that Right Rightorganization right, I'm gonna
call it that right, right.
If they do have a cohesivefoundation that they're
following, then that could be anissue.
Otherwise, I think it's goingto come down to, there's going
to, like I said before, there'sgoing to be a lot of infighting.
(18:34):
There's going to be a lot ofheads butting because this
portion of the organizationwants to follow this particular
path.
This portion over here on theright wants to follow this
particular portion and nobody'sgoing to agree on anything.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And we don't even want to bring the snake handlers
and stuff into this to make iteven worse on top.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Well, my guess is they probably don't associate
with them.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
But again, they're Christian.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I'm sorry.
I keep on seeing the pagancommunity talk about the
Christians as if they're thismassive force, this massive wall
, and I don't see them that way.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, and there's still a lot of pagans out there
who tend to bash the Christianreligion.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot more hostile intent from
the pagan community towardChristianity now than what there
used to be, I think so.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I mean we could be wrong about that.
We could be wrong about that,but I see that as a major
problem in and of itself becauseI think in some ways that's
helping to feed folks likeChristian nationalists.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Right, because now we have an enemy.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Right.
So it's kind of giving themfuel for the fire, if you will.
Right.
And I think if we all just camedown to what we try to teach
and I know some other groups tryto teach is an acceptance and a
tolerance of other religions,right and understand that we all
(20:11):
have the freedom to believewhat we want to believe.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
And to worship the way we see fit Right.
Without being interfered byanybody else.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
If we all just come to that agreement.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
We still haven't even talked about the whole entire
thing that the United Stateswill promote no religion
whatsoever or establish areligion.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, I believe that is in the Constitution.
It is literally written in theConstitution.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yes, so my understanding is christian
nationalists would have to takethat part out right, there would
have to be some changes to ourconstitution because you can't
have a church of america no or afederally church of I don't
know how you say that kind oflike the church of england.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well, yeah, it would yeah, it would be a national
religion.
Yeah, just like you knowcertain nations have, you know,
a national language, right, anofficial language.
It would be the officialreligion.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I mean because, in and of itself, Christian
nationalists would turn thiscountry into basically what
Muslim countries are.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, I think it would go back to the whole.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
well, yeah, you're right, I mean not exactly you
know, but I just mean as in thetone and feel.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It would go back to the reason this country was
founded was because of this.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, this is what we ran away from.
A government sitting theregoing.
You must believe and worshipthis way.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Right.
So, therefore, I don't think,if people truly believe in the
Constitution, if people trulybelieve in the foundation of
America, I don't think this willbe a problem.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I don't think it is either and, again, I don't think
the coalition would staytogether long enough because,
like you said, because of theinfighting, Do we need to make a
voice against them?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Do we need to stand up and say this cannot happen,
right, or do we just let it goand let it fizzle out?
Well, I don't say we.
Do we take that chance?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I don't say we let it fizzle out or anything.
We should talk about it.
But again, when you're sittingthere talking about it, I don't
think we should be talking aboutit as if it is World War III
coming over the hill tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, but I think we do have to understand that it is a
threat.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Again, it's always going to be a threat when you
have government.
Again, it's the same thing.
Would you feel the same way ifthere was a pagan nationalist
movement?
Yeah, I would.
I'd say I would too.
I wouldn't want that, because,again, which pagan tradition are
you?
Following which law and whichmyth, and what if we don't all
(23:00):
like those?
all good questions you know,because my understanding, there
are people.
There are people who are inthese muslim countries who do
want to leave because they don'twant to be part of this
religion anymore because of theway it treats them.
Yeah, and I'm sorry.
Once you're in those situations, in those type of countries,
(23:20):
you normally can't leave, orit's very hard to.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I think it's very hard for them to leave.
You know, Not that they can't.
There's too much in place tomake it an easy retreat Right or
an easy escape.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
You know I mean because in America I don't see
how in the world they do it,unless they make each state a
different Christian religion.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
That's going to create a whole new set of
problems.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
God, yes, I mean essentially.
You can't do that either,because you know, like I said,
then you're going to have statesat war with each other and then
we're just going to be thedivided states of America.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
There will be no unity Again don't get me wrong,
I'm with you.
Something we should keep oureye on and watch the world goes
on, because, well, weird shithappens that it does All right.
This is not as much of a.
I don't think it is as much ofshit happens that it does All
right that you know.
This is not as much of a.
I don't think it is as much ofthis.
I'm more worried about WorldWar III breaking out in Europe
than I am over a Christiannationalist movement actually
(24:29):
taking root Right.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
with me.
Yeah, I'm more worried aboutthat comment that's supposed to
hit us in.
What 2036?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Whatever that's supposed to hit us in what?
2036?
Whatever, I'm less worriedabout that than anything else.
I'll be lucky if I'm stillalive around that time.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I mean, I'll just say there's a lot on my list that
I'm more concerned about.
That comes ahead of that.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
yeah, that comes ahead of this, and I don't
understand why in the world thepagan community is really
getting that hung up on it.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Are you with me and I ?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
don't mean, I'm not talking about, not talking about
it, but Well, I think it's justthe nature of the generations
now that tend not all of them,but most of them tend to get
triggered over little things andthen it's a whole dramatic
effect.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
There are more drama queens now than there have ever
been in this nation.
People get ticked off over theslightest little thing and make
a big deal out of it.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
They turn mountains into molehills.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Excuse me, they turn molehills into mountains.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, and so it kind of makes me wonder is there a?
Way that we can fix that.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
But with that in case , is the Christian nationalist
movement actually as big as wethink it is, or has it just been
overhyped for media attention?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
That's a good question.
I mean, how are we going toknow?
That's not on the US Census.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Are you a white Christian nationalist?
Are you a no?
Are you a white Christiannationalist?
Are you a black Christian?
Are you just a Christiannationalist?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
That is not on the US Census, then I'm sorry, then
you stick the whole black andwhite thing.
That even makes it even worse.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm like really Because now we're back to.
Okay.
Are we resurrecting the olddays of the KKK Right?
Is okay, are we resurrectingthe old days of the kkk right?
Is that what we're actuallydoing when we're talking about?
Yeah, well, not we, but is thatwhat the christian nationalists
are trying to do well I'm sorry, good lord, come on y'all,
we've heard what.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
What was that we?
We listened to, about their,their prayer or something, or
their national anthem, and I'mkind of y'all have lost y'all's
mind.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, it was some type of creed that they were
praying and it was all.
It was very disturbing.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
It was very arrogant and not Christian whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
No, it was very Authoritative yes, authoritarian
.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yes, yes, like I said , it was very authoritative,
authoritarian.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes, yes, like I said , it was very disturbing.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, I mean.
I guess, each their own.
I'm sure they're.
Well, I don't want to say I'msure, but there's possibly a
pagan equivalent out there.
Could be, it would not surpriseme.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
They just haven't made themselves known.
They're just not as known Couldbe.
I mean, surprise me, they justhaven't made themselves known.
They're just not as known Couldbe.
I mean, I wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Are there pagan nationalists?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I wouldn't rule it out.
I mean, there's probably somefolks that say, well, we are a
pagan nation.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Well, you know, but again, I'm not going to sit here
and bang my head up becausesome Christian concepts,
concepts were weaving into our.
Yeah, I'm not gonna set my hairon fire for this well, that's,
that's a.
That's a different story.
That's a whole nother argument.
That's a whole nother thingthere, but yeah no, I, I do not
(27:53):
think we were originally set upto be specifically a christian
nation?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I don't think so either.
I think I think because of whatour founding fathers and and
the early settlers and wherewe're coming from.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
The place that they were coming from were very
christianized nations to beginwith, right I mean because y'all
got to remember the wholeeverybody over here, all the
people that England let comeover here were the Quakers and
all the religions they did notagree with.
Right Came here.
They weren't just asked, theywere sort of encouraged to leave
(28:29):
.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Probably yeah, a lot.
It's like you want to leave.
Please leave.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Please we won't.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Because, you do not fit in with our beliefs.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Right, so again you're going to wind up with the
same problem here, this is whatthis country and you're wanting
to go right back to it.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah Now.
Did our founding fathers haveany idea that paganism at some
point would rear its head upagain and become what it has
today?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I think some had a hope, probably.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
I really do believe there were a few of the founding
fathers that were morepagan-ish.
I wouldn't, say pagan orwitchcraft, but more pagan-ish.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
In their thoughts.
Could have been, and there wasa hope that there would be a
real enlightenment to a religionof wisdom and enlightenment and
nothing of authoritarian.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But again, when they sat down and they wrote the
Constitution, that was in there.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Freedom of religion.
It's literally the first.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And if we go to a Christian nationalist nation?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
You're going to have to take that out.
You have to take that outBecause then you can't speak
against the church or the actualgovernment either.
Right, right, because now yourspeech is going to have to be
curtailed.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Which is also yep, it's going to infect our freedom
of speech.
So good, figure.
Hold another can of worms,which is also yep, it's going to
infect our freedom of speech.
So good for you.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Hold another can of worms another can of worms like
I said, I don't think it'sanything to worry about directly
.
I don't see a group like thisever, because again these
questions will come up.
People will ask these questionsof them.
I hope they would, as they, ifthey take power and stuff like
that, then ask these questionsof them.
I hope they would.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
If they take power and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
But again, I have a thousand other things I'm more
concerned about than thisactually happening.
Let's go get some coffee,alright?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Facebook Discord, twitter of stone and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres, and so
it is the end of our day, sowalk with me till morning breaks
.
And so it is the end of our dayso walk with me till morning.
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