September 3, 2025 • 20 mins
The sacred dance between masculine and feminine energies forms the backbone of many pagan traditions. From the physical realm of temple-building and organization that falls under priestly domain to the spiritual guidance and ritual expertise of the priestess, we explore how these roles mirror traditional family dynamics while creating something greater than the sum of their parts. "The priestess decides where the temple goes, but the priest builds it" – a simple yet powerful illustration of how these energies work in tandem.
Perhaps most valuable is our honest assessment of spiritual burnout. Any leader attempting to fulfill both roles simultaneously courts disaster, explaining why historical figures like Gerald Gardner quickly initiated priestesses. It wasn't just spiritual balance he sought – it was practical necessity. This wisdom extends beyond religious practice into relationships and daily life, where recognizing complementary strengths creates harmony.
This conversation offers valuable insights into how wisdom gained from the past remains relevant in modern practice. Subscribe to Pagan Coffee Talk for more thought-provoking discussions that bridge the gap between traditional knowledge and contemporary living.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials content.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
please consider donating and following our
socials.
We just had a 20 minutediscussion you, me and Lord
Oswin about a multitude ofthings, but that all boil down
to gender and gender and craftand uh yeah, and I want to have
this conversation with youbecause for years you've gone
around and told everybody youact more like a priest than a
priestess.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
so there is a difference between the
priestesshood and the priesthoodgod yes so can we talk about
this?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
yeah yeah so what?
Well, let's start with thebasics.
What does it mean to be apriest?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
well, again, our jobs is to handle the mundane.
It's our job to do the banking,the, the keeping up the tempo,
doing the work okay,organization in.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
If we go back to, you know the olden days, right, you
would have literally beenresponsible for building, yes,
the temple.
You would have been responsiblefor the, the stick and mortar,
yeah, um, and then it's upkeepand right yeah, grounds keeping
(01:35):
the whole night right.
So the older I get, the funniersome of these things are to me,
because I do find myself right,as I think we all do acting like
my parents and I realize thatit's like you know, when you
remodeled a part of the house orwhen my parents did anyway,
(01:55):
right, my dad built it, but mymom was the one who decided
where it went and what it was.
Right, and it's kind of the samething.
So, like the priestess wasresponsible for saying, yes,
this is the location, right,this is the sacred spot, this is
where it's going, but then,ultimately, you would, it would
(02:16):
be handed over to you, but it's,it's more than that, right, so
we can talk about, yes, themundane and the spiritual yes.
And so the priestess issupposed to handle all the
spiritual matters.
Counseling um ritual itself isher domain right um, teaching is
(02:36):
an interesting one because,technically, technically, it
falls under the priesthood.
The priesthood, yes, but it isshe who interprets the teachings
and the meanings behind them,and the things that we need to
impart upon the next generation.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Now, when we talk about you know, like when I say
I'm more like a priest, I don'treally mean that, obviously no,
it's just you were, you weretaught and for the longest time,
were only exposed to thepriesthood so, yes, that's one
of the things that does make mea bit of an anomaly in craft.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Right, I was a priestess raised by priests.
Right, I had priestessinfluences from outside our
tradition tradition, but yeah,but I was largely raised by
raised by men, um, but alsoright.
Let's look at some of themundane.
We have long said that we pickup the slack where the other
(03:43):
fails right or or has ashortcoming right.
Okay, so in your case, right,with dyslexia being something
that bars you from being able todo some of the tasks you would
want to do, like with thelecture series and with teaching
, I pick up the slack Right, andso I have a bit more of a
(04:06):
hands-on in the structuralaspect.
But then of course I'mconsulting with you on.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
How you?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
want it to be yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It's.
It is kind of fascinating and,of course, there are many
traditions that don't operatethis way.
No, there's not a lot ofequality when it comes to the
division.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
No, and there is a tendency in our community for
the roles of certain genders tobe more downgraded than others,
and it happens.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Here's my thing.
If you're running a church andyou are trying to do it all by
yourself, regardless of whichgender, Right, I pity you yes.
I pity you, that is crap.
Yes, it is hard gender right.
(05:04):
I pity you.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yes, I pity you that is crap.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yes, and the burnout is going to be extraordinary.
It's going to be epic.
You need somebody else.
You need a counterbalance point.
You need somebody to share thatload.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You need right if nothing else, you need someone
to at least bitch at every sooften that you can talk to on
the same level of course.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I mean it's a peer-to-peer system.
Right craft always has been so.
The idea of of, like I said,just one person, and it's funny
because we look at some of thehistory of like gardenerian and
I mean I'm no expert onGardnerian, I know that, I
accept that, I mean, but thereis a lot of documentation to say
(05:45):
Gardner was very quick toinitiate and elevate his
priestesses.
Yes, and I'm like, yeah, noshit, he needed help.
Yes, like how else was he going?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I don't.
I think at the time I mean, yes, we look at that now and we go
oh my God, that was so fast andit was you know well, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And when you're sitting there and you're
watching a temple that's beenoperating for a while and got
all this down pat and stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Full moon looks like it goes off without a hitch it
looks like that I meaneverything, every aspect, every
minute, detail of circle casting, tools, rituals, pantheons,
mythology, it all has male,female.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Connotations.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Connotations, and if we don't study those, if we
don't understand them, we're ata disadvantage.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Well, again, our religion is a religion of life.
All right, and unfortunately,the majority of the people in
the world are straight, so ourreligion is this way.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
All right, I'm sorry, it's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I don't even worry about straight versus gay.
I think, we're just down to theaspect of procreation, right,
male female penis, vagina, baby,yeah, we can certainly like
look, and there are plenty ofpeople who like to go.
Well, what about I don't wantto hear about?
What about?
There are always exceptions,right, there are always in the
(07:25):
animal kingdom.
There are always anomalies,there are until it's not perfect
, it doesn't go right and thingshappen until we can
spontaneously reproduce, rightwhich I don't see happening you
know, this is the way right, atleast for us, and it's that
duality, that dynamic, and I Ican't help but think and, like I
(07:50):
said, it's it cracks me upright now, the more I think
about things and I go oh my god,I'm turning into my parents,
because traditional roles evenif you weren't raised in a very
traditional house, you knowRight, there's still the idea
that mom always knows what'sgoing on with the kids.
(08:10):
Right, dad is usually clueless.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
But look, I don't know about your house but, I
swear up and down.
My mom was part lawyer.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh God, I mean, this woman could sniff out a freaking
lie from 90 miles away.
Oh yeah, my father on the otherhand, you could tell him
anything.
He'd be like yeah, that'spossible, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
There's, and it's not to say that men are gullible.
It's just their way again oflooking at the world is
different.
They're a little bit morelinear, women or not?
But let me.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Let me put it to you this way I I have two older
sisters.
Okay, and and again, as you cantell from the voice and
everything, yes, I am southern,so I was raised in a very
traditional southern family andas the youngest in my family,
there were things I got awaywith that my sisters could never
freaking do, but you were alsothe male I was the boy in the
(09:05):
family.
I could stay out until oneo'clock at 16, where my sisters
couldn't, of course.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
There are always these sorts of exceptions I
think that people make in these.
You know again the but likehere right now, I can't.
I mean, I had this.
It smacked me like a ton ofbricks the other day and I had
to stop what I was doing.
I was vacuuming, that's all Iwas doing.
I was vacuuming and theconversation that I had just had
(09:34):
with my boyfriend was one thatmade me go ugh.
I literally feel like my momand dad right now, because he
agreed to do a task or a choreright, and that was something my
dad would have like immediatelyvolunteered for.
And I was like, well, okay,I'll go ahead and vacuum,
(09:55):
because I know how much you hateit.
Plus, I'm a little better at itanyway, I find the dust bunnies
, but I did.
I stopped the vacuum and I went.
I'm my mother.
How did this happen?
And it's so funny how a coupleand I do think any healthy
relationship right you fall intojust lying Like it just happens
(10:21):
.
You don't plan it, you don'tthink about it, it's just how it
goes Right.
And typically, yes, women domore of the planning, the
organizing, the decorating.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
The more social events of a family and men.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It's more of the building, the more shall we say
isolated or solo activities,right the, the maintenance and
all this other stuff that justand it's not to say, of, of
course, that in different roles,different couples, different
situations, they don't, you know, share the different strengths.
(11:03):
If one's weaker at one, theother one picks up the slack,
fine.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It's just fascinating , though, the people who think
this way that that you know thatwe're being all this very
restrictive stuff have neverlived on a farm.
All right, when you're livingon a farm, gender goes out the
window and jobs getting donecomes in.
Just getting the job done ismore important than who's
(11:34):
actually doing it.
Sure, now again.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes, we've often sit there going, hey, this guy's
better at building fences, solet this guy go do it but versus
but but sure, but I mean that'salso, I think, like, look,
let's be honest, when the shithits the fan you step up.
You know you do what has to bedone, but day to day it really
(12:00):
is interesting to look at theprioritization of what men value
and what women value and howthe two balance each other out.
Yeah, yeah, I think for priestsand priestesses.
So much of it, and we do.
We've compared, we've longcompared it right to a family
(12:20):
right where you have mom and dadand you have your grandparents
as your elders, and then youhave your spiritual children and
where they fall in the peckingorder and you know it's no, or
it should come as no surprise,right, if you're a neophyte or a
new person, you're a baby,you're the infant.
You get all the attention yes,you do yeah and you know, first
(12:44):
and seconds are kind of like why?
How come the baby gets all thatYou're like.
Well, yeah, they're new.
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
No, no, no, you don't understand.
I got sent a meme of this, ohno.
All right.
It is a picture of a woman inthe swimming pool trying to
coach one of her little kids tojump into the pool, while her
little, slightly older one islike sitting there trying to
drown.
And what were the labels?
The mother was high priestessNia fights for the little kids
(13:12):
jumping in and the kid drowningwere first degrees.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh, no, oh, it's so true though we do, because we
are also we are very definitely.
We're not coddlers, we're not,no, we're not, no.
And once you have an initiationunder your belt.
We're like okay, kid, sink orswim.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Train wheels come off .
It's done, they really do.
Oh man, I got to find that andsend it to you now.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
That's great.
Yeah, you do.
But I mean, is there?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
anything else?
I I mean, is there anythingelse that we can?
Really well, when you found letme ask you this when you
finally started getting aroundother priestesses, I mean
because again for a while youwere trapped just with me for a
while.
What was the biggest differenceyou saw when you were first
introduced to a real priestess?
And I don't, I don't know howto say, I don't mean a real
priestess, but yeah, yeah, I doknow what you mean, though um
(14:14):
someone who was actually raisedin the priestess yeah, yeah,
they're.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
The first impression is that they're sterner yes they
are not.
So again, if I, if I liken it toparenting, priests tend to be a
little more jovial and a littlemore outgoing initially, and
priestesses are a little shrewd,they're a little guarded, yeah,
they sort of sit back and theywatch and they do a lot of
(14:47):
internalizing and they watch andthey do a lot of internalizing
about the situation, right, theother thing that becomes really
apparent really fast and again Iliken this to mothers we don't
care who the child belongs to.
If the child is acting up, wewill intercede.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
No, no.
I will sit here and state thatI have been sitting at a ritual
at our temple.
Someone had a baby, the babycried, and five women jumped.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I thought it was stampede.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
But we also take that to mean our neophytes, right.
Literally, our spiritualchildren.
If somebody's spiritual childis acting out of turn or is
being disruptive, she'll step in.
Yes, she doesn't give a fuckwho you are, where you came from
, literally.
Who do you belong to, right?
(15:39):
Who's your spiritual?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
mother?
Who is your spiritual mother?
Yeah, we're having aconversation.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
We are going to go have a little talky talk, and I
mean, it's not any differentthan put a group of moms
together at a playground and ifone kid's being a bully or
picking on others or doingsomething dumb, somebody's gonna
step up regardless and go heylook, I could have left it be,
but your kid was probably gonnahurt themselves so or or
(16:03):
somebody else.
So I had to do something.
And moms are really funny,because I think in a lot of
situations when you approach amother about their child and you
go I'd like to have aconversation about their first
reaction is what they doImmediately.
What did they do Not?
(16:24):
They don't side with their kid.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
They're like what did they?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
do what happened.
You know what I think is funny?
I think most people mistake orthink a priestess is going to
act more like a maiden.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And that's where the disconnect comes in.
We're not, we're not.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I have gotten phone calls from people counseling,
wanting counseling from Templeand be given to them, and
they'll be sitting there going.
Well, can I talk to yourpriestess instead, and I'm like
she's going to give you theexact same answer, I am Right.
But no, I really believe thatyou're going to do something
different than I.
Yeah, I just it's.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
but it is fascinating that we, a lot of us, idealize
the mother figure as the maiden.
The maiden is, she's sweet andshe's charming and she's full of
love and life and she'sinnocent.
And a lot of that comes fromthe very fact that you know what
she hasn't dealt with.
The same hardship, well again.
(17:26):
The maiden is that you're goingfrom girlhood into woman right
it is that transitional phase,yeah, and she's very huggy and
she's very, very open-armed.
It's not always the case withthe mother, no, um, and on the
other end of the coin, the but.
(17:46):
But here's where, again, it'sso interesting.
People see the priest and thinkhe is going to be more like the
sage yeah they think he's goingto be the grumpy old man you
know, get off my porch speakslittle, listens a lot, and I'm
like where does this come from?
these are some reallyinteresting stereotypes that,
(18:08):
I'm going to be honest, theycome from pop culture, not from
reality.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
No, I mean there's not too many priests.
I know that actually act likethat.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
We're all quite a few maybe, but for the most part I
don't see our priests as stoic,cold or you know.
No, no, not at all.
So, yeah, I mean it issomething to really think about,
to look at, to kind of embracesome of those things.
(18:37):
Like I said, I joke now and Igo okay, I've turned into my
mother, great.
But, um, there is somethingabout that acknowledgement that
is part of growth.
Yeah, you know it's.
It's part of understanding thatif you are displaying the best
(18:58):
qualities from your upbringing,then you're probably on the
right track.
You're probably doing doingsomething okay, yeah, but that
does have to carry over intoyour priest and priesthood.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, I definitely need more coffee.
I do too.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
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Speaker 4 (19:36):
YouTube and Reddit hand as we pass by a sea of
blazing fires.
And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning
breaks.
(19:57):
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning,thank you.
Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials content.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
please consider donating and following our
socials.
We just had a 20 minutediscussion you, me and Lord
Oswin about a multitude ofthings, but that all boil down
to gender and gender and craftand uh yeah, and I want to have
this conversation with youbecause for years you've gone
around and told everybody youact more like a priest than a
priestess.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
so there is a difference between the
priestesshood and the priesthoodgod yes so can we talk about
this?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
yeah yeah so what?
Well, let's start with thebasics.
What does it mean to be apriest?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
well, again, our jobs is to handle the mundane.
It's our job to do the banking,the, the keeping up the tempo,
doing the work okay,organization in.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
If we go back to, you know the olden days, right, you
would have literally beenresponsible for building, yes,
the temple.
You would have been responsiblefor the, the stick and mortar,
yeah, um, and then it's upkeepand right yeah, grounds keeping
(01:35):
the whole night right.
So the older I get, the funniersome of these things are to me,
because I do find myself right,as I think we all do acting like
my parents and I realize thatit's like you know, when you
remodeled a part of the house orwhen my parents did anyway,
(01:55):
right, my dad built it, but mymom was the one who decided
where it went and what it was.
Right, and it's kind of the samething.
So, like the priestess wasresponsible for saying, yes,
this is the location, right,this is the sacred spot, this is
where it's going, but then,ultimately, you would, it would
(02:16):
be handed over to you, but it's,it's more than that, right, so
we can talk about, yes, themundane and the spiritual yes.
And so the priestess issupposed to handle all the
spiritual matters.
Counseling um ritual itself isher domain right um, teaching is
(02:36):
an interesting one because,technically, technically, it
falls under the priesthood.
The priesthood, yes, but it isshe who interprets the teachings
and the meanings behind them,and the things that we need to
impart upon the next generation.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Now, when we talk about you know, like when I say
I'm more like a priest, I don'treally mean that, obviously no,
it's just you were, you weretaught and for the longest time,
were only exposed to thepriesthood so, yes, that's one
of the things that does make mea bit of an anomaly in craft.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Right, I was a priestess raised by priests.
Right, I had priestessinfluences from outside our
tradition tradition, but yeah,but I was largely raised by
raised by men, um, but alsoright.
Let's look at some of themundane.
We have long said that we pickup the slack where the other
(03:43):
fails right or or has ashortcoming right.
Okay, so in your case, right,with dyslexia being something
that bars you from being able todo some of the tasks you would
want to do, like with thelecture series and with teaching
, I pick up the slack Right, andso I have a bit more of a
(04:06):
hands-on in the structuralaspect.
But then of course I'mconsulting with you on.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
How you?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
want it to be yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It's.
It is kind of fascinating and,of course, there are many
traditions that don't operatethis way.
No, there's not a lot ofequality when it comes to the
division.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
No, and there is a tendency in our community for
the roles of certain genders tobe more downgraded than others,
and it happens.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Here's my thing.
If you're running a church andyou are trying to do it all by
yourself, regardless of whichgender, Right, I pity you yes.
I pity you, that is crap.
Yes, it is hard gender right.
(05:04):
I pity you.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yes, I pity you that is crap.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yes, and the burnout is going to be extraordinary.
It's going to be epic.
You need somebody else.
You need a counterbalance point.
You need somebody to share thatload.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You need right if nothing else, you need someone
to at least bitch at every sooften that you can talk to on
the same level of course.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I mean it's a peer-to-peer system.
Right craft always has been so.
The idea of of, like I said,just one person, and it's funny
because we look at some of thehistory of like gardenerian and
I mean I'm no expert onGardnerian, I know that, I
accept that, I mean, but thereis a lot of documentation to say
(05:45):
Gardner was very quick toinitiate and elevate his
priestesses.
Yes, and I'm like, yeah, noshit, he needed help.
Yes, like how else was he going?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
to do it.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I don't.
I think at the time I mean, yes, we look at that now and we go
oh my God, that was so fast andit was you know well, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
And when you're sitting there and you're
watching a temple that's beenoperating for a while and got
all this down pat and stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Full moon looks like it goes off without a hitch it
looks like that I meaneverything, every aspect, every
minute, detail of circle casting, tools, rituals, pantheons,
mythology, it all has male,female.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Connotations.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Connotations, and if we don't study those, if we
don't understand them, we're ata disadvantage.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Well, again, our religion is a religion of life.
All right, and unfortunately,the majority of the people in
the world are straight, so ourreligion is this way.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
All right, I'm sorry, it's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I don't even worry about straight versus gay.
I think, we're just down to theaspect of procreation, right,
male female penis, vagina, baby,yeah, we can certainly like
look, and there are plenty ofpeople who like to go.
Well, what about I don't wantto hear about?
What about?
There are always exceptions,right, there are always in the
(07:25):
animal kingdom.
There are always anomalies,there are until it's not perfect
, it doesn't go right and thingshappen until we can
spontaneously reproduce, rightwhich I don't see happening you
know, this is the way right, atleast for us, and it's that
duality, that dynamic, and I Ican't help but think and, like I
(07:50):
said, it's it cracks me upright now, the more I think
about things and I go oh my god,I'm turning into my parents,
because traditional roles evenif you weren't raised in a very
traditional house, you knowRight, there's still the idea
that mom always knows what'sgoing on with the kids.
(08:10):
Right, dad is usually clueless.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
But look, I don't know about your house but, I
swear up and down.
My mom was part lawyer.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh God, I mean, this woman could sniff out a freaking
lie from 90 miles away.
Oh yeah, my father on the otherhand, you could tell him
anything.
He'd be like yeah, that'spossible, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
There's, and it's not to say that men are gullible.
It's just their way again oflooking at the world is
different.
They're a little bit morelinear, women or not?
But let me.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Let me put it to you this way I I have two older
sisters.
Okay, and and again, as you cantell from the voice and
everything, yes, I am southern,so I was raised in a very
traditional southern family andas the youngest in my family,
there were things I got awaywith that my sisters could never
freaking do, but you were alsothe male I was the boy in the
(09:05):
family.
I could stay out until oneo'clock at 16, where my sisters
couldn't, of course.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
There are always these sorts of exceptions I
think that people make in these.
You know again the but likehere right now, I can't.
I mean, I had this.
It smacked me like a ton ofbricks the other day and I had
to stop what I was doing.
I was vacuuming, that's all Iwas doing.
I was vacuuming and theconversation that I had just had
(09:34):
with my boyfriend was one thatmade me go ugh.
I literally feel like my momand dad right now, because he
agreed to do a task or a choreright, and that was something my
dad would have like immediatelyvolunteered for.
And I was like, well, okay,I'll go ahead and vacuum,
(09:55):
because I know how much you hateit.
Plus, I'm a little better at itanyway, I find the dust bunnies
, but I did.
I stopped the vacuum and I went.
I'm my mother.
How did this happen?
And it's so funny how a coupleand I do think any healthy
relationship right you fall intojust lying Like it just happens
(10:21):
.
You don't plan it, you don'tthink about it, it's just how it
goes Right.
And typically, yes, women domore of the planning, the
organizing, the decorating.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
The more social events of a family and men.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
It's more of the building, the more shall we say
isolated or solo activities,right the, the maintenance and
all this other stuff that justand it's not to say, of, of
course, that in different roles,different couples, different
situations, they don't, you know, share the different strengths.
(11:03):
If one's weaker at one, theother one picks up the slack,
fine.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It's just fascinating , though, the people who think
this way that that you know thatwe're being all this very
restrictive stuff have neverlived on a farm.
All right, when you're livingon a farm, gender goes out the
window and jobs getting donecomes in.
Just getting the job done ismore important than who's
(11:34):
actually doing it.
Sure, now again.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes, we've often sit there going, hey, this guy's
better at building fences, solet this guy go do it but versus
but but sure, but I mean that'salso, I think, like, look,
let's be honest, when the shithits the fan you step up.
You know you do what has to bedone, but day to day it really
(12:00):
is interesting to look at theprioritization of what men value
and what women value and howthe two balance each other out.
Yeah, yeah, I think for priestsand priestesses.
So much of it, and we do.
We've compared, we've longcompared it right to a family
(12:20):
right where you have mom and dadand you have your grandparents
as your elders, and then youhave your spiritual children and
where they fall in the peckingorder and you know it's no, or
it should come as no surprise,right, if you're a neophyte or a
new person, you're a baby,you're the infant.
You get all the attention yes,you do yeah and you know, first
(12:44):
and seconds are kind of like why?
How come the baby gets all thatYou're like.
Well, yeah, they're new.
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
No, no, no, you don't understand.
I got sent a meme of this, ohno.
All right.
It is a picture of a woman inthe swimming pool trying to
coach one of her little kids tojump into the pool, while her
little, slightly older one islike sitting there trying to
drown.
And what were the labels?
The mother was high priestessNia fights for the little kids
(13:12):
jumping in and the kid drowningwere first degrees.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh, no, oh, it's so true though we do, because we
are also we are very definitely.
We're not coddlers, we're not,no, we're not, no.
And once you have an initiationunder your belt.
We're like okay, kid, sink orswim.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Train wheels come off .
It's done, they really do.
Oh man, I got to find that andsend it to you now.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
That's great.
Yeah, you do.
But I mean, is there?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
anything else?
I I mean, is there anythingelse that we can?
Really well, when you found letme ask you this when you
finally started getting aroundother priestesses, I mean
because again for a while youwere trapped just with me for a
while.
What was the biggest differenceyou saw when you were first
introduced to a real priestess?
And I don't, I don't know howto say, I don't mean a real
priestess, but yeah, yeah, I doknow what you mean, though um
(14:14):
someone who was actually raisedin the priestess yeah, yeah,
they're.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
The first impression is that they're sterner yes they
are not.
So again, if I, if I liken it toparenting, priests tend to be a
little more jovial and a littlemore outgoing initially, and
priestesses are a little shrewd,they're a little guarded, yeah,
they sort of sit back and theywatch and they do a lot of
(14:47):
internalizing and they watch andthey do a lot of internalizing
about the situation, right, theother thing that becomes really
apparent really fast and again Iliken this to mothers we don't
care who the child belongs to.
If the child is acting up, wewill intercede.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
No, no.
I will sit here and state thatI have been sitting at a ritual
at our temple.
Someone had a baby, the babycried, and five women jumped.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I thought it was stampede.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
But we also take that to mean our neophytes, right.
Literally, our spiritualchildren.
If somebody's spiritual childis acting out of turn or is
being disruptive, she'll step in.
Yes, she doesn't give a fuckwho you are, where you came from
, literally.
Who do you belong to, right?
(15:39):
Who's your spiritual?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
mother?
Who is your spiritual mother?
Yeah, we're having aconversation.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
We are going to go have a little talky talk, and I
mean, it's not any differentthan put a group of moms
together at a playground and ifone kid's being a bully or
picking on others or doingsomething dumb, somebody's gonna
step up regardless and go heylook, I could have left it be,
but your kid was probably gonnahurt themselves so or or
(16:03):
somebody else.
So I had to do something.
And moms are really funny,because I think in a lot of
situations when you approach amother about their child and you
go I'd like to have aconversation about their first
reaction is what they doImmediately.
What did they do Not?
(16:24):
They don't side with their kid.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
They're like what did they?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
do what happened.
You know what I think is funny?
I think most people mistake orthink a priestess is going to
act more like a maiden.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And that's where the disconnect comes in.
We're not, we're not.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I have gotten phone calls from people counseling,
wanting counseling from Templeand be given to them, and
they'll be sitting there going.
Well, can I talk to yourpriestess instead, and I'm like
she's going to give you theexact same answer, I am Right.
But no, I really believe thatyou're going to do something
different than I.
Yeah, I just it's.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
but it is fascinating that we, a lot of us, idealize
the mother figure as the maiden.
The maiden is, she's sweet andshe's charming and she's full of
love and life and she'sinnocent.
And a lot of that comes fromthe very fact that you know what
she hasn't dealt with.
The same hardship, well again.
(17:26):
The maiden is that you're goingfrom girlhood into woman right
it is that transitional phase,yeah, and she's very huggy and
she's very, very open-armed.
It's not always the case withthe mother, no, um, and on the
other end of the coin, the but.
(17:46):
But here's where, again, it'sso interesting.
People see the priest and thinkhe is going to be more like the
sage yeah they think he's goingto be the grumpy old man you
know, get off my porch speakslittle, listens a lot, and I'm
like where does this come from?
these are some reallyinteresting stereotypes that,
(18:08):
I'm going to be honest, theycome from pop culture, not from
reality.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
No, I mean there's not too many priests.
I know that actually act likethat.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
We're all quite a few maybe, but for the most part I
don't see our priests as stoic,cold or you know.
No, no, not at all.
So, yeah, I mean it issomething to really think about,
to look at, to kind of embracesome of those things.
(18:37):
Like I said, I joke now and Igo okay, I've turned into my
mother, great.
But, um, there is somethingabout that acknowledgement that
is part of growth.
Yeah, you know it's.
It's part of understanding thatif you are displaying the best
(18:58):
qualities from your upbringing,then you're probably on the
right track.
You're probably doing doingsomething okay, yeah, but that
does have to carry over intoyour priest and priesthood.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, I definitely need more coffee.
I do too.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us atlifetempleseminaryorg for more
information, as well as links toour social media Facebook,
discord, twitter.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
YouTube and Reddit hand as we pass by a sea of
blazing fires.
And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning
breaks.
(19:57):
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning,thank you.
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