January 8, 2025 • 24 mins
What happens when the body can no longer keep up with the spirit's desire to serve? This episode of Pagan Coffee Talk explores this very question, as we navigate the emotional and physical challenges faced by elderly priests and priestesses grappling with physical limitations. Through personal stories and candid discussions, we reflect on the struggle of accepting help and the ego's resistance to stepping aside. Our conversation delves deep into the complex emotions surrounding the transition of leadership roles to the next generation, with an emphasis on maintaining involvement in more advisory or teaching capacities.
Join us as we uncover the critical role of mentorship and succession planning within spiritual communities. We emphasize the importance of preparing younger members to become spiritual leaders by encouraging active participation and thoughtful adaptation of traditions. Our heartfelt dialogue touches on the empowerment elders can find in transitioning to advisory roles, while also providing support and companionship for those navigating these life changes. As we conclude our session, we extend an invitation to elders to connect and share their experiences, fostering a sense of unity and guidance for all.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
So what are we talking abouttoday?
Well, I thought you've beenhaving some issues here lately
with your arthritis.
Yes, and the last ritual thatwe had, you unfortunately were
(00:38):
not able to assist in thecasting.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
No.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So I thought we would talk a little bit about what it
means when you become a priestof a certain age.
Yes, so, like, what are thekinds of things that run through
your head at this time?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, I'm sorry, when you I've been performing ritual
for how long?
Well, over 30 years, so I meanyou sort of get used to doing it
when you can.
It's not I don't know, it'sjust you can't do it.
There's a little bit.
You feel a little lost there.
But yeah, when you startgetting to the point where you
(01:21):
how can I put this?
Our elder community is elderswe are getting sort of right
battered and bruised and whichhappens with age, which happens
with age, and again, movingaround isn't that easy anymore.
So yeah, casting a circle isnot the most easiest thing to do
when you get to a certain age,but the problem is is when
(01:44):
you're sitting there andeverybody in temple being nice
and trying to help you, butyou're still wanting to do.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You know what I mean, and so how do, how do you deal
with that mentally?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
it's a little hard.
I mean considering consideringduring the last sabbath all
right, dear ne Sabbath.
I'm sitting there and I'mhurting and one of my first
degrees walk up to me.
She's with a cane, herselfgoing hey, can I do anything
with you?
What you know?
(02:19):
Sorry, I don't want the ladywith the cane having to help the
old man with the cane having tohelp the old man With the cane.
With the cane.
I mean this is back to theblind leading the blind Right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It is a little hurtful to the ego, though, to
be that one, to have to sitthere and wait for someone to
bring you your plate of food,because, well, just milling
around everybody in the kitchenis a little difficult.
So what kinds of things do?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
you do to help you deal with that.
It's really not much to do.
Either you deal with it or youdon't.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean well, I mean, I know there's things that
there's little things that youcan do, like delegating,
delegating and things like that,but even then, are you still,
are you?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You're most priests and priestesses, I think, are
dealing with the same thing.
I am the feeling of beinguseless.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Inside, circle Inside , because you can't do, I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Which, again, there's not much you can do about that.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
No, I mean especially when you're being propped up
onto a little seat because youcan't stand in ritual long
enough sometimes.
Right, you know, don't get mewrong, I'm not criticizing or
anything.
The first degree is they'redoing exactly what they're
supposed to do.
Right Again, the majority ofthe psychological issues are me.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You know you're with me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It's not them.
They're being nice and lovingand all that, but there's again,
there's a part of you thatstill wants to do you sort of
miss casting circle.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
So I think this kind of ties into when do we know
when to step down, when do weknow when to pass that torch on
To somebody else, to somebodyelse and just sit back and enjoy
it?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
or are we going to be like certain other religions
and just sit here, keep ongetting older and older and more
decrepit and not give up thatpower?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
that authority right to the next generation.
I mean because this is a veryreal thing that is going on that
yeah, everybody's going to gothrough it at some point.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You know well I mean, I've commented on the podcast
before.
Every time we're teaching,every time we're doing things
like this, we're always lookingfor our replacements, right?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Is what we should be doing, right, but it's that
letting go, it's that letting goand again, Lord Nian had this
problem.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Oh, did he ever yeah.
I mean every elder I've metthat's put blood, sweat and
tears into getting their templestarted and all like that.
They don't want to let go.
Well, no, it's their baby.
It's their baby.
And I can understand that to acertain extent You've worked
years to get this done, but atsome point we physically have to
(05:07):
let it go.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Right, but that see, that doesn't mean that you have
to completely separate yourself,though.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
No, no, you can still be an active part.
It's just you're taking more ofa advisory or a teaching and
less active Right right.
The problem comes is when youare still young enough to be
active, but yet have physicallimitations put on you right you
know it becomes a little bitharder, all right, you know, and
(05:39):
especially as the older you getand the more slower you get on
things.
You know I remember a lot oftimes sitting there like you
know, lord man, be invisiblyupset to have to look at me
going.
Okay, you're younger.
I need you to cast circle so Ican just stand behind the altar
instead.
Right, you know you startseeing us.
Let go because we just have to.
(06:01):
You know, there's more and moretimes where we're going to
ritual and I'm not performingritual.
I'm having a look at the ladygoing.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You need to pick somebody else Right, you're
either doing it by yourselftonight or you need to pick
somebody.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Or you need to pick somebody.
You know I'll do what I canwhen I can, and I normally do,
but I mean it's happening moreand more, right, you know, and
I'm again and I'm not trying to-put out anybody's business.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
But you know, I'm sorry, the lady's not much
younger than me.
No, she's got a few years.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Years on.
Her, yeah, and I'm not, youknow, and she has her issues too
.
So I mean, it's not like thisis a one-way thing here either.
You know, you know absolutelynot.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
you know she's going through the same things right,
and the older she gets, she'sgonna she's gonna see that what
you're going through is whatshe's gonna be going through,
and and again we're having todeal with this we're having to
and again for us elders, havingto deal with crossing that
barrier, getting across that andnot feel jaded or hurt or left
(07:10):
behind.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I think that's part of the thing there is when
you get to a certain age, youfeel like if you can't do,
they're just going to leave youbehind, they're going to stick
you in a corner and you're goingto become that dusty oak that
nobody ever talks to.
Right, and I think that's partof the fear there is, that this
is what's going to happen, andnot that you just can't do or
interact, it's just people aregoing to sort of forget about
(07:34):
you I think that's a legitimatefear.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I really do, especially for if you've been
someone who, like you, who'sbeen super active, always there,
you're teaching all the classes, you're conversing with guests
that come in.
You've always been very vocal,right, and I can see how you
(08:02):
would feel that way.
Yeah, like, oh God, I can't dothis.
I can't do this, this or thisanymore.
They're just going to shove meoff to the side.
But I don't, in our case, Idon't really don't think that's
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, I don't.
I don't think it's going tohappen.
I didn't say it was a rationalfear.
No, well, not rational.
I didn't say it was rational,but it not rational.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I didn't say it was rational, but it is a legitimate
fear and I think that'ssomething that that we all go
through the older we get anywayright, because I've seen it so
many times growing up where theolder generations people just
shove off in a nursing homesomewhere and never come see
them anymore.
Never come see them, thefamilies just forget about them.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Right.
But then, but again, you know,like I said growing up, when you
see these again, these olderpreachers that have been in
power for in these churches foryears and yet they really can't
do, they really shouldn't bedoing this, but they keep on
doing it because, well, pride,ego, whatever right is getting
(09:05):
in the way.
You know, I'm sorry, you getolder, your memory gets a little
bit floppier and the doctorsput you on a little bit more
meds than normal right, yeah,there was a.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
There's a preacher that I grew up with and when
mama passed away she wanted himto officiate the funeral and I'm
like, and when I saw him I wasit dawned on me how long this
man has been behind the pulpityes, and I'm like don't you
(09:37):
think it's about time for you toretire and just enjoy your life
?
Yes, at some point I mean, hestill gets around very well, he
still speaks very well, well,again, I don't think we ever,
technically, ever truly retirefrom the priesthood well, no, no
never I at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
No, we're.
We're a priest until we die,right, I mean, that's all there
is to it when I say, well, whenI say retire, that's, that's
where I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Maybe it's time to go back to just being a
participant in ritual Right andletting someone else do the
casting, do the presentation, doall of that stuff, and you go
back to just enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Enjoying it All right .
Well, don't get me wrong why.
There are times, there arewonderful times in which I have
been in ritual where, no,because of physical limitations,
I couldn't and ritual and itwas beautiful and it was nice
and it was.
I got to experience in a way Ihaven't gotten experience in
years.
Right, there's still a part ofme that's kind of like.
Of course there is.
(10:45):
I still want to put my hands inthe soup.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Needs a little more flavor.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Needs a little bit more flavor.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
You need one more shelf.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
But again, it is something we need.
There are things that we needto deal with, just like the
other side All right on this,all right Right.
Things that we need to dealwith, just like the other side
all right on this, all rightright.
You know, while I'm sitting heregoing, okay, you know y'all,
y'all need to be a little bitmore sensitive and maybe
sometimes allow us to try to dostuff, or whatever and then when
(11:20):
we fell miserably, go okay,fine, whatever or look at us and
say I told you so you know Imean, don't get me wrong it is a
bruise to the ego when thathappens, but sometimes I think
some of us need to do that.
Some of us need to because,again, the strange thing is is
(11:42):
when you get older, sometimesyou can do that task, sometimes
you can't do that task and itreally just depends on this
plethora of random things goingon in your life right I mean I
don't know how I explain thatbetween the weather and I was
gonna say it's almost like your,your joints and your body just
(12:03):
has a mind of its own at thatpoint.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And it's like today oh, we're just gonna inflame
everything, oh.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh yeah, mother nature is kind of like you know.
Remember all them years youfucked with me, right?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, fuck you, because here it comes.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Remember all them spells.
You casted me Right.
This is the backlash.
This, right here, is thebacklash quite possibly, yeah,
quite possibly.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Wouldn't put it past her for sure you know, well, I
think, on the other side of thistoo, what the young ones was.
We call them the first degrees,the second degrees, those who
are coming up to be thereplacements right they, they
need.
In my opinion, they need tostart spending more time with
(12:52):
the elders.
They need to make sure they'velearned all they can.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That philosophy, that logic, that wisdom.
So you don't have to spend moretime learning something we've
already known.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right, but they also need to understand that
eventually they're going to bein the same place, yep, so at
the same time they should startlooking for their replacements.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
And you have to realize that this becomes the
cycle.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Right, it's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's not about us.
And again, this is a hard pillto swallow and it gets worse
when you do have those physicallimitations and stuff like that.
Sure, I would love to hear fromsome more elders and stuff on
this topic.
How are y'all dealing with this?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Right, what are some ways that y'all are um combating
the mental fatigue of gettingolder?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
right in ritual and doing this thing and not being
able to do as much and, yes,even having to refer back to
your notes more when you'redoing classes than you used to,
and and it's small things yeah,but again, after a they do pile
up.
You do notice, you know somepeople don't.
You know?
(14:12):
Again, it's the whole glassesthing.
Sure, yeah, you never actuallyrealize that your prescription's
changed until you go two yearslater to go get your eyes
examined and they go.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
well, guess what?
Oh, maybe that's why that wasjust a tad bit blurry.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
oh, maybe that's why that was just a tad bit blurry
and, yes, sometimes elders haveto be pulled off to the side by
other elders who go no, you'redone, all right.
I mean we have elders have tolearn how to give up that power,
how to give up that control andand fall more into that
advisory position.
(14:47):
And again, I'm not going to sayit's easy, but again it's
something I think we need tostart a conversation about in
the community.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, and I think some ways.
Well, at least one way that wecan help combat some of that is
when you are younger and you'retraining those that are coming
up, you allow them well, I mean,you have to allow them to do it
anyway, but give them more andmore opportunities to do ritual,
(15:19):
to perform that I mean theyneed to, they need to practice
anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yes, they they need to get familiar with the
elements.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
They need to get familiar with the elements.
They need to get familiar withthe deities.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
They need to get comfortable performing ritual as
if it's second hand Right.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
But I see that also as a tool to help the elders,
the older, the third degrees.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But back to what you're saying, even to the
elders.
Elders, y'all need to startletting these people, your first
degrees, conduct rituals,absolutely.
They're not going to becomebetter at it by just standing
there watching you?
No, they're not All right.
While watching and observingdoes help on the teaching scale,
it's not the full puzzle of thepicture.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
No, it's not, and we've said it time and time
before.
What we're doing is we are notcreating followers.
We are creating priests andpriestesses.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
We are creating spiritual.
We are trying our best tocreate spiritual leaders.
Yes, not just minions, oneright after another.
That's just going to followorders.
No, that's not what we want.
We don't want bond faith.
No, we want questioning faith.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Exactly yep, and ultimately, that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
But the other part of that goal is keeping your
tradition going, keeping thecraft going.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, in and of itself .
I mean there's a difference ofchanging things just to change
things Right Versus changingthings because they need to be
changed.
All right, I mean it's kind oflike the commercial I've been
seeing on TV and it's driving meup the wall.
Well, what's new about thephone?
Who cares?
Right, there's an update.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Well, what's new about the phone who?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
cares Right, there's an update.
Well, what's new who?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
cares, it's an update , just do it.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Just do it and I'm back to no, I'm done.
Right, I'm done of the whole.
You know, consume product, getexcited for a next product and
it never ends.
So, again, we're trying to dothings differently, we're trying
(17:30):
to see things differently,we're trying to move forward.
All right, there are thingsthat we have to deal with as
elders of the community.
There are things that we needto deal with our.
Again, we're not done.
Learning, oh god.
No, this is another lesson weneed to deal with Again.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
we're not done learning.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh God, no, this is another lesson we have to learn
and we're going to have to dealwith first degrees and younger
people and jealousies andaggravations, because that's not
the way I'll do it.
When it's not a ritual, rightWell, at the same time, like you
said, maintaining thosetraditions, it is a difficult
(18:06):
thing and it is a conversationwe need to start having in the
community.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Absolutely yeah.
We need to have more peoplecoming together to discuss these
things, Discuss these things.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I mean, it's not an easy transition for, especially
after you've done it for so manyyears a priest and priestesses
giving up that power and movingon.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Well, maybe that's not such a bad idea.
You know what, if you're in theCharlotte area and you're
listening and you're an elder,get in contact with us.
Let's get together, let's justtalk about things that elders
need to talk about.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, I mean, you know.
Things like this life changesfor you when you know you're
you're 50 something and you'vehad your first heart attack.
Absolutely yeah, I mean againor you've had a stroke or
anything anything you know, lifecompletely changes for you in
your viewpoint of this.
And again, I don't see anydiscussions on this.
(19:01):
I know the bulk of craft isalways concerned about the next
generation, right?
I mean, we just talked aboutthat, but we do need to take
some time to look at our elders.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
You know, what do they need?
What do I mean?
Because there's a lot of us.
Lady Santana took a vow ofpoverty and the whole nine yards
to keep her temple going Yep,she sure did, you know, for
crying out loud.
I know not everybody can dothat, but these are sacrifices
these people made and sometimeswe have a bad habit of throwing
(19:40):
our elders off to the side.
So again, I don't know.
Is this part of the culture inthe pagan communities?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It may be, but I think, it's something we can
change.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Is this a leftover philosophy from previous
generations?
You know like you know sort ofthe way they did it in tribal
days, because once you got tothe point to where you could not
produce yourself, some peoplewould often go into the
mountains and you're in thecoldest night and just not show
(20:14):
back up in the olden days.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Could have been.
I mean it could be a carryoverfrom that, but I still think
it's something that we canchange, like I said, I mean it
could be a carryover from that,but I still think it's something
that we can change, like I said, and I mean it's not a bad idea
.
No matter where you are, whereyou're listening, get in touch
with some of the elders in yourcommunity.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Because it's a little funny how we treat elders,
because we sort of treat themlike they're throwaways, but
then we also want to deify themat the same time.
I know right.
Where did that come from?
Where did this come from?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I don't understand the duality there, the duality
there.
They kind of contradict eachother Right, just a little bit,
just a little More like acountry mile, but you know I
mean that's just my view.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I could be completely wrong there.
But you know, yeah, that's sortof what I see.
Again, not speaking bad ofanybody, this is what I see
going on.
I don't think any of theyounger people are sitting there
purposely going.
Well, we just don't like ElderBob, so fuck him, we're just not
going to.
I don't think that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I just think life and temple and activities get in
there.
Yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
it is.
I just think life and templeand activities get in there.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, well, and I think some of it is the elders
themselves.
Yeah, they're the ones who are.
They're being more like thecats and typically, when cats
are in their last days, theywill go off into the woods and
just never come back.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Or isolate themselves away from everybody else.
Right, because again, you don'twant to be, that burden but
again, you have differentthoughts there.
A either you feel like a burdenor you get aggravated because
you would rather do yourselfthan you can't Right?
So I mean again, there's a lotof things going on there.
Dealing with elders can be alittle temperamental, because I
(22:02):
remember seeing this with LordMin and me having to deal with
him, trying my best to get himto kind of.
But you know, there werecertain times he would want to
run a mile ahead of you andyou'd be like, oh my God stop.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh, I know, I mean, the man had some energy for sure
, but you know.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, but at the same time there were times he just
could not.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
No, he had the physical limitations.
We didn't call him Robo Priestfor nothing, because sometimes
he just seemed like a robot.
He just never stopped, neverstopped.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I can't think of anything else.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I can't either.
Like I said, though, I thinkit's something that we can
change.
I just think we need to cometogether as a community and do
it Now.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
We'll say this For all the younger ones dealing
with the elders be patient withus.
Oh, absolutely yeah, if we getaggravated or slightly grouchy
or whatever, or seem a littleirritated, it might not be you,
it might just be the situationand you just happen to be the
one to highlight that situation.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Think of it more like your grandparents.
Your grandparents are going toget a little moody every once in
a while, but you got to dealwith them because they're family
and you love them.
We're all going to be kind ofthe same way.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Just to let you know, I mean just to remind people,
we're just as like y'all.
We're still learning and movingthrough this stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Absolutely, so let's get some more coffee.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
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Please visit us at life templeseminaryorg for more information
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(23:51):
twitter, youtube and reddit wetravel down this trodden path,
the maze of stone and mire.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing
fires.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And so it is the end of our day.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
So walk with me till morning breaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk.
If you enjoy our content,please consider donating and
following our socials.
So what are we talking abouttoday?
Well, I thought you've beenhaving some issues here lately
with your arthritis.
Yes, and the last ritual thatwe had, you unfortunately were
(00:38):
not able to assist in thecasting.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
No.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So I thought we would talk a little bit about what it
means when you become a priestof a certain age.
Yes, so, like, what are thekinds of things that run through
your head at this time?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, I'm sorry, when you I've been performing ritual
for how long?
Well, over 30 years, so I meanyou sort of get used to doing it
when you can.
It's not I don't know, it'sjust you can't do it.
There's a little bit.
You feel a little lost there.
But yeah, when you startgetting to the point where you
(01:21):
how can I put this?
Our elder community is elderswe are getting sort of right
battered and bruised and whichhappens with age, which happens
with age, and again, movingaround isn't that easy anymore.
So yeah, casting a circle isnot the most easiest thing to do
when you get to a certain age,but the problem is is when
(01:44):
you're sitting there andeverybody in temple being nice
and trying to help you, butyou're still wanting to do.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You know what I mean, and so how do, how do you deal
with that mentally?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
it's a little hard.
I mean considering consideringduring the last sabbath all
right, dear ne Sabbath.
I'm sitting there and I'mhurting and one of my first
degrees walk up to me.
She's with a cane, herselfgoing hey, can I do anything
with you?
What you know?
(02:19):
Sorry, I don't want the ladywith the cane having to help the
old man with the cane having tohelp the old man With the cane.
With the cane.
I mean this is back to theblind leading the blind Right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
It is a little hurtful to the ego, though, to
be that one, to have to sitthere and wait for someone to
bring you your plate of food,because, well, just milling
around everybody in the kitchenis a little difficult.
So what kinds of things do?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
you do to help you deal with that.
It's really not much to do.
Either you deal with it or youdon't.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean well, I mean, I know there's things that
there's little things that youcan do, like delegating,
delegating and things like that,but even then, are you still,
are you?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You're most priests and priestesses, I think, are
dealing with the same thing.
I am the feeling of beinguseless.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Inside, circle Inside , because you can't do, I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Which, again, there's not much you can do about that.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
No, I mean especially when you're being propped up
onto a little seat because youcan't stand in ritual long
enough sometimes.
Right, you know, don't get mewrong, I'm not criticizing or
anything.
The first degree is they'redoing exactly what they're
supposed to do.
Right Again, the majority ofthe psychological issues are me.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You know you're with me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It's not them.
They're being nice and lovingand all that, but there's again,
there's a part of you thatstill wants to do you sort of
miss casting circle.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
So I think this kind of ties into when do we know
when to step down, when do weknow when to pass that torch on
To somebody else, to somebodyelse and just sit back and enjoy
it?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
or are we going to be like certain other religions
and just sit here, keep ongetting older and older and more
decrepit and not give up thatpower?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
that authority right to the next generation.
I mean because this is a veryreal thing that is going on that
yeah, everybody's going to gothrough it at some point.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You know well I mean, I've commented on the podcast
before.
Every time we're teaching,every time we're doing things
like this, we're always lookingfor our replacements, right?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Is what we should be doing, right, but it's that
letting go, it's that letting goand again, Lord Nian had this
problem.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Oh, did he ever yeah.
I mean every elder I've metthat's put blood, sweat and
tears into getting their templestarted and all like that.
They don't want to let go.
Well, no, it's their baby.
It's their baby.
And I can understand that to acertain extent You've worked
years to get this done, but atsome point we physically have to
(05:07):
let it go.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Right, but that see, that doesn't mean that you have
to completely separate yourself,though.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
No, no, you can still be an active part.
It's just you're taking more ofa advisory or a teaching and
less active Right right.
The problem comes is when youare still young enough to be
active, but yet have physicallimitations put on you right you
know it becomes a little bitharder, all right, you know, and
(05:39):
especially as the older you getand the more slower you get on
things.
You know I remember a lot oftimes sitting there like you
know, lord man, be invisiblyupset to have to look at me
going.
Okay, you're younger.
I need you to cast circle so Ican just stand behind the altar
instead.
Right, you know you startseeing us.
Let go because we just have to.
(06:01):
You know, there's more and moretimes where we're going to
ritual and I'm not performingritual.
I'm having a look at the ladygoing.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You need to pick somebody else Right, you're
either doing it by yourselftonight or you need to pick
somebody.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Or you need to pick somebody.
You know I'll do what I canwhen I can, and I normally do,
but I mean it's happening moreand more, right, you know, and
I'm again and I'm not trying to-put out anybody's business.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
But you know, I'm sorry, the lady's not much
younger than me.
No, she's got a few years.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Years on.
Her, yeah, and I'm not, youknow, and she has her issues too
.
So I mean, it's not like thisis a one-way thing here either.
You know, you know absolutelynot.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
you know she's going through the same things right,
and the older she gets, she'sgonna she's gonna see that what
you're going through is whatshe's gonna be going through,
and and again we're having todeal with this we're having to
and again for us elders, havingto deal with crossing that
barrier, getting across that andnot feel jaded or hurt or left
(07:10):
behind.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I think that's part of the thing there is when
you get to a certain age, youfeel like if you can't do,
they're just going to leave youbehind, they're going to stick
you in a corner and you're goingto become that dusty oak that
nobody ever talks to.
Right, and I think that's partof the fear there is, that this
is what's going to happen, andnot that you just can't do or
interact, it's just people aregoing to sort of forget about
(07:34):
you I think that's a legitimatefear.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I really do, especially for if you've been
someone who, like you, who'sbeen super active, always there,
you're teaching all the classes, you're conversing with guests
that come in.
You've always been very vocal,right, and I can see how you
(08:02):
would feel that way.
Yeah, like, oh God, I can't dothis.
I can't do this, this or thisanymore.
They're just going to shove meoff to the side.
But I don't, in our case, Idon't really don't think that's
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, I don't.
I don't think it's going tohappen.
I didn't say it was a rationalfear.
No, well, not rational.
I didn't say it was rational,but it not rational.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I didn't say it was rational, but it is a legitimate
fear and I think that'ssomething that that we all go
through the older we get anywayright, because I've seen it so
many times growing up where theolder generations people just
shove off in a nursing homesomewhere and never come see
them anymore.
Never come see them, thefamilies just forget about them.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Right.
But then, but again, you know,like I said growing up, when you
see these again, these olderpreachers that have been in
power for in these churches foryears and yet they really can't
do, they really shouldn't bedoing this, but they keep on
doing it because, well, pride,ego, whatever right is getting
(09:05):
in the way.
You know, I'm sorry, you getolder, your memory gets a little
bit floppier and the doctorsput you on a little bit more
meds than normal right, yeah,there was a.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
There's a preacher that I grew up with and when
mama passed away she wanted himto officiate the funeral and I'm
like, and when I saw him I wasit dawned on me how long this
man has been behind the pulpityes, and I'm like don't you
(09:37):
think it's about time for you toretire and just enjoy your life
?
Yes, at some point I mean, hestill gets around very well, he
still speaks very well, well,again, I don't think we ever,
technically, ever truly retirefrom the priesthood well, no, no
never I at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
No, we're.
We're a priest until we die,right, I mean, that's all there
is to it when I say, well, whenI say retire, that's, that's
where I'm like.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Maybe it's time to go back to just being a
participant in ritual Right andletting someone else do the
casting, do the presentation, doall of that stuff, and you go
back to just enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Enjoying it All right .
Well, don't get me wrong why.
There are times, there arewonderful times in which I have
been in ritual where, no,because of physical limitations,
I couldn't and ritual and itwas beautiful and it was nice
and it was.
I got to experience in a way Ihaven't gotten experience in
years.
Right, there's still a part ofme that's kind of like.
Of course there is.
(10:45):
I still want to put my hands inthe soup.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Needs a little more flavor.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Needs a little bit more flavor.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
You need one more shelf.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
But again, it is something we need.
There are things that we needto deal with, just like the
other side All right on this,all right Right.
Things that we need to dealwith, just like the other side
all right on this, all rightright.
You know, while I'm sitting heregoing, okay, you know y'all,
y'all need to be a little bitmore sensitive and maybe
sometimes allow us to try to dostuff, or whatever and then when
(11:20):
we fell miserably, go okay,fine, whatever or look at us and
say I told you so you know Imean, don't get me wrong it is a
bruise to the ego when thathappens, but sometimes I think
some of us need to do that.
Some of us need to because,again, the strange thing is is
(11:42):
when you get older, sometimesyou can do that task, sometimes
you can't do that task and itreally just depends on this
plethora of random things goingon in your life right I mean I
don't know how I explain thatbetween the weather and I was
gonna say it's almost like your,your joints and your body just
(12:03):
has a mind of its own at thatpoint.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And it's like today oh, we're just gonna inflame
everything, oh.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh yeah, mother nature is kind of like you know.
Remember all them years youfucked with me, right?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, fuck you, because here it comes.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Remember all them spells.
You casted me Right.
This is the backlash.
This, right here, is thebacklash quite possibly, yeah,
quite possibly.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Wouldn't put it past her for sure you know, well, I
think, on the other side of thistoo, what the young ones was.
We call them the first degrees,the second degrees, those who
are coming up to be thereplacements right they, they
need.
In my opinion, they need tostart spending more time with
(12:52):
the elders.
They need to make sure they'velearned all they can.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
That philosophy, that logic, that wisdom.
So you don't have to spend moretime learning something we've
already known.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right, but they also need to understand that
eventually they're going to bein the same place, yep, so at
the same time they should startlooking for their replacements.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
And you have to realize that this becomes the
cycle.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Right, it's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's always about the kitties.
It's not about us.
And again, this is a hard pillto swallow and it gets worse
when you do have those physicallimitations and stuff like that.
Sure, I would love to hear fromsome more elders and stuff on
this topic.
How are y'all dealing with this?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Right, what are some ways that y'all are um combating
the mental fatigue of gettingolder?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
right in ritual and doing this thing and not being
able to do as much and, yes,even having to refer back to
your notes more when you'redoing classes than you used to,
and and it's small things yeah,but again, after a they do pile
up.
You do notice, you know somepeople don't.
You know?
(14:12):
Again, it's the whole glassesthing.
Sure, yeah, you never actuallyrealize that your prescription's
changed until you go two yearslater to go get your eyes
examined and they go.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
well, guess what?
Oh, maybe that's why that wasjust a tad bit blurry.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
oh, maybe that's why that was just a tad bit blurry
and, yes, sometimes elders haveto be pulled off to the side by
other elders who go no, you'redone, all right.
I mean we have elders have tolearn how to give up that power,
how to give up that control andand fall more into that
advisory position.
(14:47):
And again, I'm not going to sayit's easy, but again it's
something I think we need tostart a conversation about in
the community.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, and I think some ways.
Well, at least one way that wecan help combat some of that is
when you are younger and you'retraining those that are coming
up, you allow them well, I mean,you have to allow them to do it
anyway, but give them more andmore opportunities to do ritual,
(15:19):
to perform that I mean theyneed to, they need to practice
anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yes, they they need to get familiar with the
elements.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
They need to get familiar with the elements.
They need to get familiar withthe deities.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
They need to get comfortable performing ritual as
if it's second hand Right.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
But I see that also as a tool to help the elders,
the older, the third degrees.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But back to what you're saying, even to the
elders.
Elders, y'all need to startletting these people, your first
degrees, conduct rituals,absolutely.
They're not going to becomebetter at it by just standing
there watching you?
No, they're not All right.
While watching and observingdoes help on the teaching scale,
it's not the full puzzle of thepicture.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
No, it's not, and we've said it time and time
before.
What we're doing is we are notcreating followers.
We are creating priests andpriestesses.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
We are creating spiritual.
We are trying our best tocreate spiritual leaders.
Yes, not just minions, oneright after another.
That's just going to followorders.
No, that's not what we want.
We don't want bond faith.
No, we want questioning faith.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Exactly yep, and ultimately, that's the goal.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
But the other part of that goal is keeping your
tradition going, keeping thecraft going.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes, in and of itself .
I mean there's a difference ofchanging things just to change
things Right Versus changingthings because they need to be
changed.
All right, I mean it's kind oflike the commercial I've been
seeing on TV and it's driving meup the wall.
Well, what's new about thephone?
Who cares?
Right, there's an update.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Well, what's new about the phone who?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
cares Right, there's an update.
Well, what's new who?
Speaker 1 (17:08):
cares, it's an update , just do it.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Just do it and I'm back to no, I'm done.
Right, I'm done of the whole.
You know, consume product, getexcited for a next product and
it never ends.
So, again, we're trying to dothings differently, we're trying
(17:30):
to see things differently,we're trying to move forward.
All right, there are thingsthat we have to deal with as
elders of the community.
There are things that we needto deal with our.
Again, we're not done.
Learning, oh god.
No, this is another lesson weneed to deal with Again.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
we're not done learning.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh God, no, this is another lesson we have to learn
and we're going to have to dealwith first degrees and younger
people and jealousies andaggravations, because that's not
the way I'll do it.
When it's not a ritual, rightWell, at the same time, like you
said, maintaining thosetraditions, it is a difficult
(18:06):
thing and it is a conversationwe need to start having in the
community.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Absolutely yeah.
We need to have more peoplecoming together to discuss these
things, Discuss these things.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I mean, it's not an easy transition for, especially
after you've done it for so manyyears a priest and priestesses
giving up that power and movingon.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Well, maybe that's not such a bad idea.
You know what, if you're in theCharlotte area and you're
listening and you're an elder,get in contact with us.
Let's get together, let's justtalk about things that elders
need to talk about.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, I mean, you know.
Things like this life changesfor you when you know you're
you're 50 something and you'vehad your first heart attack.
Absolutely yeah, I mean againor you've had a stroke or
anything anything you know, lifecompletely changes for you in
your viewpoint of this.
And again, I don't see anydiscussions on this.
(19:01):
I know the bulk of craft isalways concerned about the next
generation, right?
I mean, we just talked aboutthat, but we do need to take
some time to look at our elders.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
You know, what do they need?
What do I mean?
Because there's a lot of us.
Lady Santana took a vow ofpoverty and the whole nine yards
to keep her temple going Yep,she sure did, you know, for
crying out loud.
I know not everybody can dothat, but these are sacrifices
these people made and sometimeswe have a bad habit of throwing
(19:40):
our elders off to the side.
So again, I don't know.
Is this part of the culture inthe pagan communities?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It may be, but I think, it's something we can
change.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Is this a leftover philosophy from previous
generations?
You know like you know sort ofthe way they did it in tribal
days, because once you got tothe point to where you could not
produce yourself, some peoplewould often go into the
mountains and you're in thecoldest night and just not show
(20:14):
back up in the olden days.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Could have been.
I mean it could be a carryoverfrom that, but I still think
it's something that we canchange, like I said, I mean it
could be a carryover from that,but I still think it's something
that we can change, like I said, and I mean it's not a bad idea
.
No matter where you are, whereyou're listening, get in touch
with some of the elders in yourcommunity.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Because it's a little funny how we treat elders,
because we sort of treat themlike they're throwaways, but
then we also want to deify themat the same time.
I know right.
Where did that come from?
Where did this come from?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I don't understand the duality there, the duality
there.
They kind of contradict eachother Right, just a little bit,
just a little More like acountry mile, but you know I
mean that's just my view.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I could be completely wrong there.
But you know, yeah, that's sortof what I see.
Again, not speaking bad ofanybody, this is what I see
going on.
I don't think any of theyounger people are sitting there
purposely going.
Well, we just don't like ElderBob, so fuck him, we're just not
going to.
I don't think that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I just think life and temple and activities get in
there.
Yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
it is.
I just think life and templeand activities get in there.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, well, and I think some of it is the elders
themselves.
Yeah, they're the ones who are.
They're being more like thecats and typically, when cats
are in their last days, theywill go off into the woods and
just never come back.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Or isolate themselves away from everybody else.
Right, because again, you don'twant to be, that burden but
again, you have differentthoughts there.
A either you feel like a burdenor you get aggravated because
you would rather do yourselfthan you can't Right?
So I mean again, there's a lotof things going on there.
Dealing with elders can be alittle temperamental, because I
(22:02):
remember seeing this with LordMin and me having to deal with
him, trying my best to get himto kind of.
But you know, there werecertain times he would want to
run a mile ahead of you andyou'd be like, oh my God stop.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh, I know, I mean, the man had some energy for sure
, but you know.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, but at the same time there were times he just
could not.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
No, he had the physical limitations.
We didn't call him Robo Priestfor nothing, because sometimes
he just seemed like a robot.
He just never stopped, neverstopped.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I can't think of anything else.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I can't either.
Like I said, though, I thinkit's something that we can
change.
I just think we need to cometogether as a community and do
it Now.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
We'll say this For all the younger ones dealing
with the elders be patient withus.
Oh, absolutely yeah, if we getaggravated or slightly grouchy
or whatever, or seem a littleirritated, it might not be you,
it might just be the situationand you just happen to be the
one to highlight that situation.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Think of it more like your grandparents.
Your grandparents are going toget a little moody every once in
a while, but you got to dealwith them because they're family
and you love them.
We're all going to be kind ofthe same way.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Just to let you know, I mean just to remind people,
we're just as like y'all.
We're still learning and movingthrough this stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Absolutely, so let's get some more coffee.
Thanks for listening.
Join us next week for anotherepisode.
Pagan Coffee Talk is brought toyou by Life Temple and Seminary
.
Please visit us at life templeseminaryorg for more information
, as well as links to our socialmedia facebook, discord,
(23:51):
twitter, youtube and reddit wetravel down this trodden path,
the maze of stone and mire.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing
fires.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And so it is the end of our day.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
So walk with me till morning breaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
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