April 16, 2025 • 30 mins
The disconnect between our spiritual language and our physical practice often reveals profound misunderstandings within the pagan community. When we constantly speak of "walking our paths" yet kneel at altars that barely reach our knees, we're embodying contradictory spiritual principles without even realizing it.
This thought-provoking conversation challenges a fundamental oversight many modern pagans make: witches don't kneel before their gods. Unlike traditions where followers are considered unworthy to look upon the face of divinity, paganism emphasizes partnership and equality. We stand with our deities, so why are so many using altars that force them into positions of submission?
Beyond altar ergonomics, we explore how surface-level engagement with teachings has eroded authentic practice. The skimming culture fostered by social media has trained practitioners to miss crucial nuances in specific word choices that carry significant theological implications. When we fail to truly listen – to our teachings, our priests, and to each other – we miss the essence of what makes our spiritual paths meaningful.
The episode also addresses the breakdown in student-teacher relationships within covens. Where once students would regularly engage elders with questions about craft practices, today's practitioners often hesitate to reach out. This communication breakdown prevents the deep transmission of knowledge that traditionally characterized pagan learning and stunts spiritual growth.
Whether you're a seasoned witch or just beginning your journey, this conversation will make you reconsider how attentively you're engaging with your tradition. Are you truly listening to the specific language and teachings being offered? Are you willing to question inconsistencies and adjust your understanding as you learn? Walking your path means standing tall before your gods – both literally and figuratively.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk.
So what's on your mind today?
Let's talk about people notlistening.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
People not listening okay, I'm going to be very
specific about this type.
Alright, alright, priests andpriestesses walk around all the
time in the pagan community andwe keep on talking about walking
someone's path.
Yeah, alright, walking thewheel of the circle, right, all
right, and on all these things,you keep on hearing us use the
(00:52):
word walk.
Now let's jump to a completelydifferent topic.
That makes no sense at thismoment.
All right, okay but yet I keepon seeing people going out
buying these little short altarsthat are like two feet tall,
right, all right, and at nopoint did anybody sit there and
go.
Hmm, if I'm supposed to bewalking and I have an altar, how
(01:16):
in the world do I walk my pathon my knees when I'm kneeling at
my altar?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
That is a good question.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I don't think you can how do you walk your path?
With your face planted in theground, because you're unworthy
to look upon your God.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I don't think you can .
You can't, that's.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I mean you're on your knees how can you worship your
God if you're too busy trying tocover the top of your head?
So where is this disconnect?
Witches do not kneel.
We don't kneel before our gods.
We don't kneel before anyoneelse, but yet we'll go out, and
(01:58):
they'll go out by these two,these damn altars that cause
them to kneel.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, I mean, I guess theoretically you could set
that up on something else.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But if you're doing that, why not just get a taller
table?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Why.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Or just use whatever you're putting it on as your
altar.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
My problem here isn't the altars themselves, it's the
mindset.
Why are you kneeling at analtar?
It's the mindset.
Why are you kneeling at analtar?
In Christianity and all theseother religions, you're seen as
unworthy to be looking upon theface of your God.
You are not worthy to see themor be in their presence because
(02:37):
you are a lower life form.
Now, in paganism we don't thinkthat way.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, the way I grew up in Christianity, it wasn't
that you weren't worthy.
If you look upon the face, itwas that you did it out of
respect.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
No, yeah, I was always told if you look upon the
, face of God, you will goinsane.
So therefore, we can't.
Well, yeah, hence the reasonwhere, according to Christianity
, you can't really even hear thevoice of God.
He has to have an intermediatethere.
True, that's where in the world.
What's his name the messengercomes from?
(03:14):
True, yeah, all right, he's theword of God, he speaks for God.
Because we can't hear him,right, we're unworthy of this.
All right, again, this is thethought in most of these
religions.
Okay, yeah, and ours iscompletely different.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It is completely different.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We walk with our gods .
We look upon their faces.
They're not somethingcompletely out of our reach or
something so far beyond us.
No, they're not.
Now, when we do talk about thesource, we talk about the source
being something beyond us, butwe mean it as in it is so
(03:54):
completely different than us.
There's no grasping thisconcept right.
It's slightly different thanI'm.
Not worthy to look upon theface of my god, right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But now, by that token, does that also mean, in
your view, right, right?
Does that mean that, whenyou're talking about the source,
does that mean we can, we wouldbe able to view the source, we
would be able to see?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
well and not go insane or not, I think once.
Once a soul gets to a certainpoint, yes, they can start
looking, but that soul would notreincarnate into this world
anyway.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, the reason I ask that is because you
mentioned the soul.
You said the soul would be ableto Right.
Christians believe the samething, because when you die and
you go to heaven, you are ableto look upon the face of God.
Yes, no, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, no.
From my understanding, once yougo to heaven and you worship,
you still cannot look upon God.
No, you can't you get a newcelestial blah, blah, blah body
and then you go straight intoworship?
I've never heard that.
It's what I have been told mywhole entire life through all of
my raising up in Christianitythe whole nine yards.
I've never heard that At the endof the day, nobody, no matter
what state that they're in,cannot be allowed to look upon
(05:05):
God.
Well, that's not what I wastold, because we are technically
unworthy.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Again, not what I was taught.
So anyway, I was just curious.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, but again the thought there is the same.
My point is is still, we talkabout walking, but yet nobody
has put those two together,right, why?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I have no idea.
All right Again, it doesn'tmake sense to me.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
It doesn't make sense Because, priests and
priestesses, we use certainwords on purpose.
We want to invoke certainthoughts.
Yes, there's a lot of timeswhen we put out posts and stuff
like that, people half-ass readthem because they're too busy
trying to or I already know whatin the world it is and rolling
(05:51):
their eyes and moving on and notlistening to the individual
words.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, that's the problem with social media.
We're so engrossed in it I meannot engrossed, but we're so
inundated with social media on adaily basis that half the time
we don't even really read thepost, we just kind of skim
through them, and if somethingcatches your eye, then you might
take some time and actually payattention to it but again,
(06:16):
you're just reading that, ifyou're just reading the
headlines and not the articleand the headlines doesn't always
portray what the article isactually about, right, but but
we assume it does.
Right, but, like I said, it'sbecause we're so inundated with
it now.
I mean, in this day and age,it's all about social media.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I also think there's this whole entire problem where
they've come up with this guestreading, trying to teach all
these kids speed reading andways to read faster, and in
doing this you sort of do skip alot.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
All right, but again, one word in the side of a
paragraph can change the wholeentire meaning of it.
And if you're skipping that oneword, you could be missing
something there Exactly yeah,it's kind of like reading cliff
notes.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
We're dating ourselves Kind of like reading
cliff notes as opposed toreading the actual book right
again there.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
There there are things that might be skipped,
which are profound and may befor you, but you didn't because
you didn't actually read thebook right.
So I don't, I don't get thiswhy people don't always listen
and get very confused when wesit back and go.
But that's not what I said.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Well, you know, when we say, well, that's not what I
said, or you didn't understandwhat I said, or anything along
those lines.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Or you didn't actually take the time to read
every word, you just assumedwhat in the world it was.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Or they say this well , I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
But yet, if you go back and you read what I said,
or you go back and you examinewhat I said, I told you I might
regret this later, but I'll giveyou one more example of what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I am a full-time priest, correct?
You have heard me tell peoplethis more than once.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
But yet there are members in Temple that will
still look at.
I don't want to call them andinterrupt them.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
What the f-.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Call me, talk to me, blah, blah, blah.
Over and over again.
But I don't want to.
I don't get the disconnect here, right, the only thing I can
think of is when you got that isyou just really don't want to.
You don't actually want to havea conversation with me.
You don't really want to.
You just want to bitch aboutwhatever in hell it is Could be.
Yeah, you don't actually wantto fix it.
(08:33):
You don't actually want to doanything Because you didn't take
the time, you didn't read whatin the world was going on.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
You didn't pick up the phone.
But again, how, how do, how dowe get people out of that
mindset?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I mean, walk your path, don't just casually stroll
through it, don't just half-assit well, but don't sit there
and assume that everything'sjust going to fall out in the
sky in your damn lap right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I mean this is, this is a path of work.
It's you gotta put the effortin baby, baby.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I'm just saying, at some point you have to be
responsible for yourself,Absolutely.
And if I'm having to badger youjust to get an answer out of
you, that's not teaching.
No, it's not.
That's just aggravation on mypart, because I mean you sit
there and you try to speak veryclearly and yet I still see
(09:23):
people sit there and they willwalk off and do the complete
opposite or something else.
It's the same complaint I havefrom all these people who come
in ask me for my advice and thenwalk out the door and the very
next day do the completeopposite.
Then why come and ask me for myadvice if you're not going to
listen to it?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
See that I don't know , but I do think as a teacher,
we need you know.
If you're a teacher, if you are, um, you know, a coven leader
or whatever, I do think you needto take the mentality that I
can only teach you so much,right, and then what you do with
(10:06):
that information.
I can't help you.
If you choose not to doanything with that information,
that's not my fault.
Don't come back and blame mebecause you don't know something
.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, how about can we just be honest about it?
If you don't know something,just say you don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Well, and that too.
What do we always tell ourstudents when we first start
classes?
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
The only dumb question is onethat's never asked, and how many
times you hear that and you go.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well, why didn't you answer anything?
Oh, I didn't want to lookstupid.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Anybody got any questions?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Silence, silence, silence.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Dead, silence, silence.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I don't want to look stupid, but I'm going to look
stupid later when I'm questionedabout something.
That I can't answer or part ofmy faith or something, and I
really can't answer and I'mstumbling around looking like a
complete idiot.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I mean, it's a real challenge?
It really is.
But again, walk your path.
If you're walking your path,you should be challenging your
own notions.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Well, there's nothing wrong with being stupid.
The only thing wrong with beingstupid is staying stupid.
Yeah, all right, and the onlyway to stop that is to start
asking questions, is to starttalking that is, to start asking
questions, is to start talking.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, like I said, part of what we teach is to
challenge whatever notion isthrown at you, whatever idea,
even your own ideas, right,challenge them, prove them,
disprove them, do do somethingsitting on your couch in your
own little bubble, you know, andnot talking to anyone else is
not changing anything.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
You're not actually growing, you're just sitting
there in a bubble.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
No, but that's what we try to teach them.
And again, you can only do somuch, you know.
I would say this I'veinstructed you in the ways that
can help you.
If you choose not to do shitwith them, that is not my fault,
that is not a reflection on me.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Long story short.
We went to ritual over at LadyKeegan's house one night.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And she happened to have one of these short altars.
Yeah, she had it out.
She looked down at me, shelooked at the altar, she looked
at me.
She's like I know, I know it'sall I have right now.
And we stood around a two-foottable and she kept on having to
bend over and do everything.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, yeah, I believe that night we also wound up
sitting on the floor, which youknow older generation, not that
easy to get up out of the floor.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But yeah, All right, but again the whole entire thing
of me and her in the circle andshe heard the whole nine yards,
knowing exactly what in theworld my problem is the whole
entire time.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, she said it right off the bat.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
She was like I know I know, don't say a word, don't
ask questions.
This is what we have to do fortonight.
Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
But I think, I think something like that if it's a
temporary, I'm not so upset, youknow, all right.
But if it's something thatyou're, that you're daily doing
or that's that is your sacredspace, I mean, unless you're
sitting down and that's justwhere you're comfortable.
But I don't know about you.
I like to move around the altar, I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I like moving around the altar.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Yes, there are times where Ihave to sit while I'm in circle
sure all right, but when I dothat, the I'm literally I level
with the freaking altar at thetop Right, so it's not like I
can't see what's going on oranything like that.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Right, that's how tall our altars are, well,
they're working altars, they'reworking altars.
And what do we mean by workingaltars?
Well, it means you're able tomove around, you're able to do
stuff at this altar.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You're able to set your tools down and pick your
tools up without knockinganything else over, or setting
anything on fire, Right, Allright.
Again, it's not these quoteunquote altars that you see
where they're really, justshrines to a certain deity.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Right and again.
Nothing wrong with that, butthat is not an altar.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
An altar is a working tool.
Again, our opinions.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
We get it we understand.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Just letting you know , for us that is not an altar.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
All right, well, again I also will keep it on
this thing about the wholekneeling thing.
When a couple years back, wherethey were going around, you
know, are you going to kneel forblack lives matter I remember
looking at you going.
I hope they don't run across apagan I know, right, right A
real one, because they'd look atthem and go I don't kneel for
my gods and walk off, right.
So I mean because they have to,because you also have to
(14:53):
remember it From what I know,like the viziers and stuff like
that, they never really kowtowedto kings either.
No, I don't think they did no.
So again, this is alongstanding tradition in craft
not to kneel, not to take theknee Right.
(15:13):
I mean there's a bunch of otherreasons inside of traditions
that we're not going to talkabout, but this is the big one
for us.
I mean, it drives me up thewall.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, I don't know how you change that mindset.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well, how do you get people to start realizing?
Yes, you need to analyze andsometimes dissect every word on
a page.
I know it's time consuming anda pain in the butt, but it is
being dyslexic and having tolearn how to read the way I do.
I see're in a world.
I have the wrong concept in abook or somewhere because I
(15:51):
couldn't read a word not that Ididn't know what the word meant
or anything.
I couldn't read it, so I putsomething else in there.
I thought matched well, perfectexample.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
When the harry potter books came out, I remember you
were like, oh, I want to readthese books, even I wanted to
read these books, right, youknow.
And you'd be sitting therereading and you know, you and I
would come out, we'd starttalking about and be like, well,
what section are you in?
And you'd mention somebody'sname and I'd be like, who, who?
And you're like, well, I don'tknow how to read it, so I made
(16:24):
something up.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Again, just FYI, dyslexics.
Reading names is a very hardthing to do because there's no
context to a name, right?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
you can't put a picture to it.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I can't put a picture to it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And your thought process is you put pictures to
words, words.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So again.
So I just made up names that Icould keep on remembering so I
could keep track of them.
The h guy keeps on doing this.
He's big, he's hairy right.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
But again, that could potentially change an outcome
of part of that story, right,because if it's not a name, it
might be something else.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, god forbid if the name happens not to fit the
character and there's a jokeabout it running through, that I
will never catch it right.
So when I look at it this way,this is what y'all were doing
and y'all don't have to right.
I do it because I have nochoice and it drives me up the
wall because I know I'm gettinginformation wrong that way.
Right.
Where's the common sense onthis?
(17:24):
When are people actually goingto start really listening to
people again?
I don't know.
I don't know and questioningand have conversations.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And I'll admit I've been guilty of it at times and
then when I realize what I'mdoing, I'm like I'm just being
lazy.
Yes, I'm not paying attention.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
No, you know.
I mean I'm sorry.
I sit here and listen to peoplesay this stuff all the time and
nine times out of ten I'msitting back going.
You're not really doinganything, you're gaslighting
yourself.
Yeah, oh yeah, I'm sitting athome and I'm doing this and blah
, blah, blah.
No, you're not.
You're not really doing any ofthat.
(18:08):
Picking up your book of shadowsand writing three words down
and sitting it down and walkingoff is not work.
Right.
Sitting there going hey, youknow what I need to learn about
this and not picking up a phoneand calling an elder and discuss
it with them.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, an elder, a classmate, another first degree,
you know, a second degree.
I mean there's any number ofpeople you can call Well, an
elder, a classmate, anotherfirst degree, a second degree.
I mean there's any number ofpeople you can call If you're a
neophyte and you're in a classwith other students, pick up the
phone, call them and say, hey,I got a question, what was your
take?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
on this.
Okay, if we're missing thewhole walking and kneeling thing
in the general populace becauseyou're not catching on to that,
what else are y'all missing outon that we're saying to y'all
that you're just not paying anyattention to.
Well, yeah, I mean, come on,y'all miss that, but OK and.
(19:00):
But we're not going to corrector change our behavior or
anything.
We're just going to keep ondoing the same thing over and
over again, right, and thenexpect the rest of the world to
go along with it well, and, andI think that that's where I hate
to be this way.
My life experience has shown methe world don't work that way no
, what I was going to say is isthat's where.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
That's where you wind up with people doing things not
the proper way or the right wayor anything along those lines,
but then they go on and theyteach other people that way, and
then it just keeps gettinglazier and lazier and lazier,
and then you've completely lostEverything that was actually
(19:43):
behind it, right?
Because you're half-assing,you're half-assing.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's just the way actually behind it, right,
because you're half-assing.
You're half-assing.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's just the way I see it.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, you know, it's like sitting there talking and
doing a class and you have thatone student sitting there, no
notes, no, nothing, staring offinto space.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Why are you even here ?
Are you going to tell me youactually give a shit?
Is this what you really want?
Well, again, we tell everybodywe're supposed to judge each
other based on our actions.
These are the actions I see.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And it's actions, not necessarily knowledge.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No, are you?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
actually doing something Right.
You may have the knowledge, butif you're not doing anything,
what does it matter?
I mean and if you don't havethe knowledge and you're doing
something, ah, that shows meyou've got gumption, you've got,
you've got the attitude tolearn.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah you, you want you to grow.
When you're sitting there andyou're talking to people and
you're debating this stuff,you're learning.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But if you don't talk , if you don't debate, if you
don't tell people what you doand don't know, nothing's ever
going to change.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And now there's a difference between debate and
arguing.
Yes, if you're arguing, you'regetting nowhere.
No Debating, on the other hand,expressing ideas in a calm
manner.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Debating works like this.
I sit down and I tell you okay,I believe in A, but for me to
believe in A, I need B, c, d andE right here to stabilize this,
to show you where in the worldI'm coming to this conclusion
from.
Because, again, that original,that last idea, is made up of
(21:33):
multiple ideas and if one ofthem things are wrong, the whole
thing falls apart.
Right, and when you're comingup with these theories and stuff
like that, you don't always seeevery fault.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
No, you don't, and the only no.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You don't and the only way to see them is to voice
them, is to voice them and talkto other people about them, to
find out where in the world youmight be going wrong.
Something you didn't think about, right Now, we're not talking
again.
I'm not talking about thewhat-isms Right All right,
because there's a lot of those.
I'm about tired of them, rightAll right, because there's a lot
(22:07):
of those.
I'm about tired of them.
You know, that's like themdoing that whole entire thing.
If we talk about this, thenthat means that excludes these
people.
No, it don't no.
It don't no.
It doesn't always mean thatJust because you talk about
relationships from a straightpoint of view doesn't mean you
get rid of the gay people.
No, it just means you'retalking about relationships,
(22:29):
right?
Not having babies, absolutely.
See.
Now there's another thing,there's another concept in
paganism.
I keep on seeing skipped.
Now again, I don't have aproblem with abortion,
especially that first trimester.
What?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
me and you are used to what we grew up in.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It's just the first trimester.
None of this late crap.
Don't have a problem with this,and I even understand.
In the old days, yes, tribesused to have to make certain
decisions when the crops weren'tgood, and sometimes babies and
old people were left out in thecold.
Right, all right, we're nottalking about we don't live in
these but at the end of everySabbath, at the end of every
(23:12):
ritual we go, the anthem is tothe male as the chalice is to
the female.
Co-joined together, they bringforth blessings.
Right, what do y'all think themblessings are?
Hmm, it sure in hell, ain'tthat damn orgasm.
Nope, that ain't that damnorgasm.
No, that's just something tocover up the freaking pain
you're in.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I was going to say well, you know well, it serves
its purpose, but that's not theblessing, that's not the
blessing.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So again I'm back to we should be encouraging people
to have kids Right.
All right, well, follow thelogic If I sit here and tell you
okay, we value life.
Life is a celebration of ourgods, of our religion, in and of
itself Right.
How better way to express that?
By having a child Right andhaving a child young enough so
(23:56):
you can enjoy having a child.
The parents I see worn outreally at the edge of the fridge
.
It's the ones that had themwhen they're late 30s and blah
blah blah, yeah, wait a littleolder yeah.
All right, because you ain't gotthe energy to keep up with them
, so again you have them earlier, you got a better chance of
everything going off right.
I'm sorry.
What's so hard about this?
Why can't we encourage peopleto do that?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I don't see anything wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
The logic sits there.
Sure it does.
Right there it is.
But yet in the pagan community,god forbid if you don't hear
them.
Oh, abortion, this abortion,that abortion.
I think y'all are missing thepoint here.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Well, and then too, we're not talking about having a
shit ton of babies.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
No.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Creating a football team, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well, I'm just saying , to take that concept of
something that is supposed to bepart of our religion.
We are supposed to be creatingmore life.
Yes and just well, we're noteven going to listen to the
concept, we're not listening tothe words of what we're saying,
and that this is completelydisconnected from reality.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right, it's not Well, some people, they just can't go
beyond a certain idea, they getstuck on it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And then it just goes round and round and round and
round and never goes anywhere.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, like the logic I used to do as a kid If I could
read the word, I would know howto spell the word.
If I knew how to spell the word, I could look the word up.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
But I can't read the word because I can't spell the
word.
So how in the world am Isupposed to look the word up to
find out how to spell it?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
well, yeah, but no, I'm speaking more like the
political ideas.
You know, people, people getstuck.
I mean, it's the best example Ican come up with.
You know, you get stuck on onething.
Somebody said something about apolitician name your politician
right, whatever.
Somebody says something about apolitician Name your politician
Right, whatever.
Somebody says something aboutit, and that's all that gets
(25:49):
talked about.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
You never go beyond that point.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And when somebody tries to come at you with well,
what about this, what about that?
Let's discuss this a little bit.
Oh, no, no, no, it goes back tothat point.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Only that point.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It never goes beyond.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Because again I'm back to it I don't think people
actually listen.
People come up to you and saythat because you're not my tribe
or whatever the reason, I'm notgoing to listen to you.
I'm not going to hear anopinion outside of what my
little bubble.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's exactly what I'm talking about and I'm sorry
that's dangerous right, and youknow that goes beyond politics.
It involves religion, itinvolves daily life.
Yeah, anything that you'redoing in your daily life, you
know, I, I just I don't get it,people, it's like open up, let's
discuss.
I don't get it, people, it'slike open up, let's discuss
things.
Don't be so, don't be so closedin on yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You know I mean.
What are y'all afraid of?
God forbid what Y'all might geta new idea.
You might change a thought.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Are you afraid of being wrong?
If I was afraid of being wrong,you know how many times I've
been wrong in my life?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Oh God, Hell.
I think I was wrong five timesthis morning, just before I got
out of bed.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I lost count.
I've lost count the number oftimes that I was wrong.
But you know what I wouldn'thave known?
I was wrong if I hadn'texplored the idea, if I hadn't
gone beyond my little brainsection.
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
But again you get the excuses.
I don't want to disturb you, Idon't want to do, I don't want.
You don't want to learn To me.
This is not that listening,this is just.
I don't really want to do thisand I don't have the balls to
sit there and go I'm, I don't,and then walk away well, I
remember, I remember the earlydays of coven work, yeah, and we
(27:54):
would quite literally havestudents that would just
randomly call up yes on aregular basis, just randomly
call up and say, hey, you knowwhat, I'm confused about
something.
I am very accustomed for manyyears of first degrees calling
me up randomly throughout theday to ask me random questions.
(28:16):
Yes, and that's why I'm working.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's like at work at home we could be out at the
grocery store.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Now when I was working.
Yes, you might have gotten.
I'll have to call you rightback.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Right here in a little bit.
It's like, give me a minute.
I need to get to a place, aplace where it's a little bit
more private.
Let me get to a place we'lldiscuss.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Luckily I had a job where I could find places that
were private.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely yeah, but it wouldn't
be a very long conversation.
It would be okay.
We'll talk about this after Iget off work.
But it's like over the past Idon't know 10, 15 years, it's
gotten out of that and it's likewhat happened?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Seriously what.
So if anybody can chime in onthis mindset, help us understand
I remember getting my first andgoing through, especially going
through my second, Goingthrough my second.
I think I saw Lorde men onalmost a daily freaking basis.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And we'd talk some witchcraft sometime.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Pretty much every day yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Every day.
Lady Keegan same thing.
She would call me up everysingle day and we would sit here
and talk for hours on end.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And now getting people to communicate is
virtually impossible.
It seems like it.
Yeah, Make it make sense.
Make it make sense how in theworld a priest can sit there and
go.
You can call me whenever, Idon't want to bother you.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Right, I don't know.
The only thing that does makesense at this point is coffee.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Join us next week for another episode we travel down
this trodden path, the maze ofstone and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day.
(30:09):
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
Guitar solo.
Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk.
So what's on your mind today?
Let's talk about people notlistening.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
People not listening okay, I'm going to be very
specific about this type.
Alright, alright, priests andpriestesses walk around all the
time in the pagan community andwe keep on talking about walking
someone's path.
Yeah, alright, walking thewheel of the circle, right, all
right, and on all these things,you keep on hearing us use the
(00:52):
word walk.
Now let's jump to a completelydifferent topic.
That makes no sense at thismoment.
All right, okay but yet I keepon seeing people going out
buying these little short altarsthat are like two feet tall,
right, all right, and at nopoint did anybody sit there and
go.
Hmm, if I'm supposed to bewalking and I have an altar, how
(01:16):
in the world do I walk my pathon my knees when I'm kneeling at
my altar?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
That is a good question.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I don't think you can how do you walk your path?
With your face planted in theground, because you're unworthy
to look upon your God.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I don't think you can .
You can't, that's.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I mean you're on your knees how can you worship your
God if you're too busy trying tocover the top of your head?
So where is this disconnect?
Witches do not kneel.
We don't kneel before our gods.
We don't kneel before anyoneelse, but yet we'll go out, and
(01:58):
they'll go out by these two,these damn altars that cause
them to kneel.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, I mean, I guess theoretically you could set
that up on something else.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But if you're doing that, why not just get a taller
table?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Why.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Or just use whatever you're putting it on as your
altar.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
My problem here isn't the altars themselves, it's the
mindset.
Why are you kneeling at analtar?
It's the mindset.
Why are you kneeling at analtar?
In Christianity and all theseother religions, you're seen as
unworthy to be looking upon theface of your God.
You are not worthy to see themor be in their presence because
(02:37):
you are a lower life form.
Now, in paganism we don't thinkthat way.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Well, the way I grew up in Christianity, it wasn't
that you weren't worthy.
If you look upon the face, itwas that you did it out of
respect.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
No, yeah, I was always told if you look upon the
, face of God, you will goinsane.
So therefore, we can't.
Well, yeah, hence the reasonwhere, according to Christianity
, you can't really even hear thevoice of God.
He has to have an intermediatethere.
True, that's where in the world.
What's his name the messengercomes from?
(03:14):
True, yeah, all right, he's theword of God, he speaks for God.
Because we can't hear him,right, we're unworthy of this.
All right, again, this is thethought in most of these
religions.
Okay, yeah, and ours iscompletely different.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It is completely different.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We walk with our gods .
We look upon their faces.
They're not somethingcompletely out of our reach or
something so far beyond us.
No, they're not.
Now, when we do talk about thesource, we talk about the source
being something beyond us, butwe mean it as in it is so
(03:54):
completely different than us.
There's no grasping thisconcept right.
It's slightly different thanI'm.
Not worthy to look upon theface of my god, right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But now, by that token, does that also mean, in
your view, right, right?
Does that mean that, whenyou're talking about the source,
does that mean we can, we wouldbe able to view the source, we
would be able to see?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
well and not go insane or not, I think once.
Once a soul gets to a certainpoint, yes, they can start
looking, but that soul would notreincarnate into this world
anyway.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, the reason I ask that is because you
mentioned the soul.
You said the soul would be ableto Right.
Christians believe the samething, because when you die and
you go to heaven, you are ableto look upon the face of God.
Yes, no, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
No, no.
From my understanding, once yougo to heaven and you worship,
you still cannot look upon God.
No, you can't you get a newcelestial blah, blah, blah body
and then you go straight intoworship?
I've never heard that.
It's what I have been told mywhole entire life through all of
my raising up in Christianitythe whole nine yards.
I've never heard that At the endof the day, nobody, no matter
what state that they're in,cannot be allowed to look upon
(05:05):
God.
Well, that's not what I wastold, because we are technically
unworthy.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Again, not what I was taught.
So anyway, I was just curious.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, but again the thought there is the same.
My point is is still, we talkabout walking, but yet nobody
has put those two together,right, why?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I have no idea.
All right Again, it doesn'tmake sense to me.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
It doesn't make sense Because, priests and
priestesses, we use certainwords on purpose.
We want to invoke certainthoughts.
Yes, there's a lot of timeswhen we put out posts and stuff
like that, people half-ass readthem because they're too busy
trying to or I already know whatin the world it is and rolling
(05:51):
their eyes and moving on and notlistening to the individual
words.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, that's the problem with social media.
We're so engrossed in it I meannot engrossed, but we're so
inundated with social media on adaily basis that half the time
we don't even really read thepost, we just kind of skim
through them, and if somethingcatches your eye, then you might
take some time and actually payattention to it but again,
(06:16):
you're just reading that, ifyou're just reading the
headlines and not the articleand the headlines doesn't always
portray what the article isactually about, right, but but
we assume it does.
Right, but, like I said, it'sbecause we're so inundated with
it now.
I mean, in this day and age,it's all about social media.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I also think there's this whole entire problem where
they've come up with this guestreading, trying to teach all
these kids speed reading andways to read faster, and in
doing this you sort of do skip alot.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
All right, but again, one word in the side of a
paragraph can change the wholeentire meaning of it.
And if you're skipping that oneword, you could be missing
something there Exactly yeah,it's kind of like reading cliff
notes.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
We're dating ourselves Kind of like reading
cliff notes as opposed toreading the actual book right
again there.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
There there are things that might be skipped,
which are profound and may befor you, but you didn't because
you didn't actually read thebook right.
So I don't, I don't get thiswhy people don't always listen
and get very confused when wesit back and go.
But that's not what I said.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Well, you know, when we say, well, that's not what I
said, or you didn't understandwhat I said, or anything along
those lines.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Or you didn't actually take the time to read
every word, you just assumedwhat in the world it was.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Or they say this well , I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
But yet, if you go back and you read what I said,
or you go back and you examinewhat I said, I told you I might
regret this later, but I'll giveyou one more example of what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I am a full-time priest, correct?
You have heard me tell peoplethis more than once.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
But yet there are members in Temple that will
still look at.
I don't want to call them andinterrupt them.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
What the f-.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Call me, talk to me, blah, blah, blah.
Over and over again.
But I don't want to.
I don't get the disconnect here, right, the only thing I can
think of is when you got that isyou just really don't want to.
You don't actually want to havea conversation with me.
You don't really want to.
You just want to bitch aboutwhatever in hell it is Could be.
Yeah, you don't actually wantto fix it.
(08:33):
You don't actually want to doanything Because you didn't take
the time, you didn't read whatin the world was going on.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
You didn't pick up the phone.
But again, how, how do, how dowe get people out of that
mindset?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I mean, walk your path, don't just casually stroll
through it, don't just half-assit well, but don't sit there
and assume that everything'sjust going to fall out in the
sky in your damn lap right.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I mean this is, this is a path of work.
It's you gotta put the effortin baby, baby.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I'm just saying, at some point you have to be
responsible for yourself,Absolutely.
And if I'm having to badger youjust to get an answer out of
you, that's not teaching.
No, it's not.
That's just aggravation on mypart, because I mean you sit
there and you try to speak veryclearly and yet I still see
(09:23):
people sit there and they willwalk off and do the complete
opposite or something else.
It's the same complaint I havefrom all these people who come
in ask me for my advice and thenwalk out the door and the very
next day do the completeopposite.
Then why come and ask me for myadvice if you're not going to
listen to it?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
See that I don't know , but I do think as a teacher,
we need you know.
If you're a teacher, if you are, um, you know, a coven leader
or whatever, I do think you needto take the mentality that I
can only teach you so much,right, and then what you do with
(10:06):
that information.
I can't help you.
If you choose not to doanything with that information,
that's not my fault.
Don't come back and blame mebecause you don't know something
.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Well, how about can we just be honest about it?
If you don't know something,just say you don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Well, and that too.
What do we always tell ourstudents when we first start
classes?
Don't be afraid to askquestions.
The only dumb question is onethat's never asked, and how many
times you hear that and you go.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Well, why didn't you answer anything?
Oh, I didn't want to lookstupid.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Anybody got any questions?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Silence, silence, silence.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Dead, silence, silence.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I don't want to look stupid, but I'm going to look
stupid later when I'm questionedabout something.
That I can't answer or part ofmy faith or something, and I
really can't answer and I'mstumbling around looking like a
complete idiot.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I mean, it's a real challenge?
It really is.
But again, walk your path.
If you're walking your path,you should be challenging your
own notions.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Well, there's nothing wrong with being stupid.
The only thing wrong with beingstupid is staying stupid.
Yeah, all right, and the onlyway to stop that is to start
asking questions, is to starttalking that is, to start asking
questions, is to start talking.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, like I said, part of what we teach is to
challenge whatever notion isthrown at you, whatever idea,
even your own ideas, right,challenge them, prove them,
disprove them, do do somethingsitting on your couch in your
own little bubble, you know, andnot talking to anyone else is
not changing anything.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
You're not actually growing, you're just sitting
there in a bubble.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
No, but that's what we try to teach them.
And again, you can only do somuch, you know.
I would say this I'veinstructed you in the ways that
can help you.
If you choose not to do shitwith them, that is not my fault,
that is not a reflection on me.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Long story short.
We went to ritual over at LadyKeegan's house one night.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And she happened to have one of these short altars.
Yeah, she had it out.
She looked down at me, shelooked at the altar, she looked
at me.
She's like I know, I know it'sall I have right now.
And we stood around a two-foottable and she kept on having to
bend over and do everything.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, yeah, I believe that night we also wound up
sitting on the floor, which youknow older generation, not that
easy to get up out of the floor.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
But yeah, All right, but again the whole entire thing
of me and her in the circle andshe heard the whole nine yards,
knowing exactly what in theworld my problem is the whole
entire time.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, she said it right off the bat.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
She was like I know I know, don't say a word, don't
ask questions.
This is what we have to do fortonight.
Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
But I think, I think something like that if it's a
temporary, I'm not so upset, youknow, all right.
But if it's something thatyou're, that you're daily doing
or that's that is your sacredspace, I mean, unless you're
sitting down and that's justwhere you're comfortable.
But I don't know about you.
I like to move around the altar, I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I like moving around the altar.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
Yes, there are times where Ihave to sit while I'm in circle
sure all right, but when I dothat, the I'm literally I level
with the freaking altar at thetop Right, so it's not like I
can't see what's going on oranything like that.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Right, that's how tall our altars are, well,
they're working altars, they'reworking altars.
And what do we mean by workingaltars?
Well, it means you're able tomove around, you're able to do
stuff at this altar.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You're able to set your tools down and pick your
tools up without knockinganything else over, or setting
anything on fire, Right, Allright.
Again, it's not these quoteunquote altars that you see
where they're really, justshrines to a certain deity.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Right and again.
Nothing wrong with that, butthat is not an altar.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
An altar is a working tool.
Again, our opinions.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
We get it we understand.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Just letting you know , for us that is not an altar.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
All right, well, again I also will keep it on
this thing about the wholekneeling thing.
When a couple years back, wherethey were going around, you
know, are you going to kneel forblack lives matter I remember
looking at you going.
I hope they don't run across apagan I know, right, right A
real one, because they'd look atthem and go I don't kneel for
my gods and walk off, right.
So I mean because they have to,because you also have to
(14:53):
remember it From what I know,like the viziers and stuff like
that, they never really kowtowedto kings either.
No, I don't think they did no.
So again, this is alongstanding tradition in craft
not to kneel, not to take theknee Right.
(15:13):
I mean there's a bunch of otherreasons inside of traditions
that we're not going to talkabout, but this is the big one
for us.
I mean, it drives me up thewall.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, I don't know how you change that mindset.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well, how do you get people to start realizing?
Yes, you need to analyze andsometimes dissect every word on
a page.
I know it's time consuming anda pain in the butt, but it is
being dyslexic and having tolearn how to read the way I do.
I see're in a world.
I have the wrong concept in abook or somewhere because I
(15:51):
couldn't read a word not that Ididn't know what the word meant
or anything.
I couldn't read it, so I putsomething else in there.
I thought matched well, perfectexample.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
When the harry potter books came out, I remember you
were like, oh, I want to readthese books, even I wanted to
read these books, right, youknow.
And you'd be sitting therereading and you know, you and I
would come out, we'd starttalking about and be like, well,
what section are you in?
And you'd mention somebody'sname and I'd be like, who, who?
And you're like, well, I don'tknow how to read it, so I made
(16:24):
something up.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Again, just FYI, dyslexics.
Reading names is a very hardthing to do because there's no
context to a name, right?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
you can't put a picture to it.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I can't put a picture to it.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And your thought process is you put pictures to
words, words.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So again.
So I just made up names that Icould keep on remembering so I
could keep track of them.
The h guy keeps on doing this.
He's big, he's hairy right.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
But again, that could potentially change an outcome
of part of that story, right,because if it's not a name, it
might be something else.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, god forbid if the name happens not to fit the
character and there's a jokeabout it running through, that I
will never catch it right.
So when I look at it this way,this is what y'all were doing
and y'all don't have to right.
I do it because I have nochoice and it drives me up the
wall because I know I'm gettinginformation wrong that way.
Right.
Where's the common sense onthis?
(17:24):
When are people actually goingto start really listening to
people again?
I don't know.
I don't know and questioningand have conversations.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And I'll admit I've been guilty of it at times and
then when I realize what I'mdoing, I'm like I'm just being
lazy.
Yes, I'm not paying attention.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
No, you know.
I mean I'm sorry.
I sit here and listen to peoplesay this stuff all the time and
nine times out of ten I'msitting back going.
You're not really doinganything, you're gaslighting
yourself.
Yeah, oh yeah, I'm sitting athome and I'm doing this and blah
, blah, blah.
No, you're not.
You're not really doing any ofthat.
(18:08):
Picking up your book of shadowsand writing three words down
and sitting it down and walkingoff is not work.
Right.
Sitting there going hey, youknow what I need to learn about
this and not picking up a phoneand calling an elder and discuss
it with them.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, an elder, a classmate, another first degree,
you know, a second degree.
I mean there's any number ofpeople you can call Well, an
elder, a classmate, anotherfirst degree, a second degree.
I mean there's any number ofpeople you can call If you're a
neophyte and you're in a classwith other students, pick up the
phone, call them and say, hey,I got a question, what was your
take?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
on this.
Okay, if we're missing thewhole walking and kneeling thing
in the general populace becauseyou're not catching on to that,
what else are y'all missing outon that we're saying to y'all
that you're just not paying anyattention to.
Well, yeah, I mean, come on,y'all miss that, but OK and.
(19:00):
But we're not going to corrector change our behavior or
anything.
We're just going to keep ondoing the same thing over and
over again, right, and thenexpect the rest of the world to
go along with it well, and, andI think that that's where I hate
to be this way.
My life experience has shown methe world don't work that way no
, what I was going to say is isthat's where.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
That's where you wind up with people doing things not
the proper way or the right wayor anything along those lines,
but then they go on and theyteach other people that way, and
then it just keeps gettinglazier and lazier and lazier,
and then you've completely lostEverything that was actually
(19:43):
behind it, right?
Because you're half-assing,you're half-assing.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's just the way actually behind it, right,
because you're half-assing.
You're half-assing.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
That's just the way I see it.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, you know, it's like sitting there talking and
doing a class and you have thatone student sitting there, no
notes, no, nothing, staring offinto space.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Why are you even here ?
Are you going to tell me youactually give a shit?
Is this what you really want?
Well, again, we tell everybodywe're supposed to judge each
other based on our actions.
These are the actions I see.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And it's actions, not necessarily knowledge.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No, are you?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
actually doing something Right.
You may have the knowledge, butif you're not doing anything,
what does it matter?
I mean and if you don't havethe knowledge and you're doing
something, ah, that shows meyou've got gumption, you've got,
you've got the attitude tolearn.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah you, you want you to grow.
When you're sitting there andyou're talking to people and
you're debating this stuff,you're learning.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But if you don't talk , if you don't debate, if you
don't tell people what you doand don't know, nothing's ever
going to change.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And now there's a difference between debate and
arguing.
Yes, if you're arguing, you'regetting nowhere.
No Debating, on the other hand,expressing ideas in a calm
manner.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Debating works like this.
I sit down and I tell you okay,I believe in A, but for me to
believe in A, I need B, c, d andE right here to stabilize this,
to show you where in the worldI'm coming to this conclusion
from.
Because, again, that original,that last idea, is made up of
(21:33):
multiple ideas and if one ofthem things are wrong, the whole
thing falls apart.
Right, and when you're comingup with these theories and stuff
like that, you don't always seeevery fault.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
No, you don't, and the only no.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You don't and the only way to see them is to voice
them, is to voice them and talkto other people about them, to
find out where in the world youmight be going wrong.
Something you didn't think about, right Now, we're not talking
again.
I'm not talking about thewhat-isms Right All right,
because there's a lot of those.
I'm about tired of them, rightAll right, because there's a lot
(22:07):
of those.
I'm about tired of them.
You know, that's like themdoing that whole entire thing.
If we talk about this, thenthat means that excludes these
people.
No, it don't no.
It don't no.
It doesn't always mean thatJust because you talk about
relationships from a straightpoint of view doesn't mean you
get rid of the gay people.
No, it just means you'retalking about relationships,
(22:29):
right?
Not having babies, absolutely.
See.
Now there's another thing,there's another concept in
paganism.
I keep on seeing skipped.
Now again, I don't have aproblem with abortion,
especially that first trimester.
What?
Speaker 3 (22:48):
me and you are used to what we grew up in.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It's just the first trimester.
None of this late crap.
Don't have a problem with this,and I even understand.
In the old days, yes, tribesused to have to make certain
decisions when the crops weren'tgood, and sometimes babies and
old people were left out in thecold.
Right, all right, we're nottalking about we don't live in
these but at the end of everySabbath, at the end of every
(23:12):
ritual we go, the anthem is tothe male as the chalice is to
the female.
Co-joined together, they bringforth blessings.
Right, what do y'all think themblessings are?
Hmm, it sure in hell, ain'tthat damn orgasm.
Nope, that ain't that damnorgasm.
No, that's just something tocover up the freaking pain
you're in.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I was going to say well, you know well, it serves
its purpose, but that's not theblessing, that's not the
blessing.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So again I'm back to we should be encouraging people
to have kids Right.
All right, well, follow thelogic If I sit here and tell you
okay, we value life.
Life is a celebration of ourgods, of our religion, in and of
itself Right.
How better way to express that?
By having a child Right andhaving a child young enough so
(23:56):
you can enjoy having a child.
The parents I see worn outreally at the edge of the fridge
.
It's the ones that had themwhen they're late 30s and blah
blah blah, yeah, wait a littleolder yeah.
All right, because you ain't gotthe energy to keep up with them
, so again you have them earlier, you got a better chance of
everything going off right.
I'm sorry.
What's so hard about this?
Why can't we encourage peopleto do that?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I don't see anything wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
The logic sits there.
Sure it does.
Right there it is.
But yet in the pagan community,god forbid if you don't hear
them.
Oh, abortion, this abortion,that abortion.
I think y'all are missing thepoint here.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Well, and then too, we're not talking about having a
shit ton of babies.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
No.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Creating a football team, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well, I'm just saying , to take that concept of
something that is supposed to bepart of our religion.
We are supposed to be creatingmore life.
Yes and just well, we're noteven going to listen to the
concept, we're not listening tothe words of what we're saying,
and that this is completelydisconnected from reality.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right, it's not Well, some people, they just can't go
beyond a certain idea, they getstuck on it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
And then it just goes round and round and round and
round and never goes anywhere.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, like the logic I used to do as a kid If I could
read the word, I would know howto spell the word.
If I knew how to spell the word, I could look the word up.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
But I can't read the word because I can't spell the
word.
So how in the world am Isupposed to look the word up to
find out how to spell it?
Speaker 1 (25:28):
well, yeah, but no, I'm speaking more like the
political ideas.
You know, people, people getstuck.
I mean, it's the best example Ican come up with.
You know, you get stuck on onething.
Somebody said something about apolitician name your politician
right, whatever.
Somebody says something about apolitician Name your politician
Right, whatever.
Somebody says something aboutit, and that's all that gets
(25:49):
talked about.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
You never go beyond that point.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And when somebody tries to come at you with well,
what about this, what about that?
Let's discuss this a little bit.
Oh, no, no, no, it goes back tothat point.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Only that point.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It never goes beyond.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Because again I'm back to it I don't think people
actually listen.
People come up to you and saythat because you're not my tribe
or whatever the reason, I'm notgoing to listen to you.
I'm not going to hear anopinion outside of what my
little bubble.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's exactly what I'm talking about and I'm sorry
that's dangerous right, and youknow that goes beyond politics.
It involves religion, itinvolves daily life.
Yeah, anything that you'redoing in your daily life, you
know, I, I just I don't get it,people, it's like open up, let's
discuss.
I don't get it, people, it'slike open up, let's discuss
things.
Don't be so, don't be so closedin on yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You know I mean.
What are y'all afraid of?
God forbid what Y'all might geta new idea.
You might change a thought.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Are you afraid of being wrong?
If I was afraid of being wrong,you know how many times I've
been wrong in my life?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Oh God, Hell.
I think I was wrong five timesthis morning, just before I got
out of bed.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I lost count.
I've lost count the number oftimes that I was wrong.
But you know what I wouldn'thave known?
I was wrong if I hadn'texplored the idea, if I hadn't
gone beyond my little brainsection.
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
But again you get the excuses.
I don't want to disturb you, Idon't want to do, I don't want.
You don't want to learn To me.
This is not that listening,this is just.
I don't really want to do thisand I don't have the balls to
sit there and go I'm, I don't,and then walk away well, I
remember, I remember the earlydays of coven work, yeah, and we
(27:54):
would quite literally havestudents that would just
randomly call up yes on aregular basis, just randomly
call up and say, hey, you knowwhat, I'm confused about
something.
I am very accustomed for manyyears of first degrees calling
me up randomly throughout theday to ask me random questions.
(28:16):
Yes, and that's why I'm working.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
It's like at work at home we could be out at the
grocery store.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Now when I was working.
Yes, you might have gotten.
I'll have to call you rightback.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Right here in a little bit.
It's like, give me a minute.
I need to get to a place, aplace where it's a little bit
more private.
Let me get to a place we'lldiscuss.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Luckily I had a job where I could find places that
were private.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely yeah, but it wouldn't
be a very long conversation.
It would be okay.
We'll talk about this after Iget off work.
But it's like over the past Idon't know 10, 15 years, it's
gotten out of that and it's likewhat happened?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Seriously what.
So if anybody can chime in onthis mindset, help us understand
I remember getting my first andgoing through, especially going
through my second, Goingthrough my second.
I think I saw Lorde men onalmost a daily freaking basis.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And we'd talk some witchcraft sometime.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Pretty much every day yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Every day.
Lady Keegan same thing.
She would call me up everysingle day and we would sit here
and talk for hours on end.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And now getting people to communicate is
virtually impossible.
It seems like it.
Yeah, Make it make sense.
Make it make sense how in theworld a priest can sit there and
go.
You can call me whenever, Idon't want to bother you.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Right, I don't know.
The only thing that does makesense at this point is coffee.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Join us next week for another episode we travel down
this trodden path, the maze ofstone and mire.
Just hold my hand as we pass bya sea of blazing pyres.
And so it is the end of our day.
(30:09):
So walk with me till morningbreaks.
And so it is the end of our day.
So walk with me till morning.
Guitar solo.
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